Latest / The Licensing Exchange / From Black Beanies to Global Brands: VP of Licensing Jennifer Staley on Growing BioWorld's Licensing Platform
Transcript
- Announcer: You're listening to the Licensing Exchange, part of the Look Legal pods from the law firm Nolan Heimann lawyers for creative business makers. And now, here are your hosts, attorneys David Schnider and Greg Pan. David Schnider: Welcome to the Licensing Exchange Podcast. My name is David Schnider and with me as always today is my co-host, Greg Pan. Hey, Greg. Greg Pan: Hey. David Schnider: Greg, our guest today is Jennifer Staley, the vice president of licensing at BioWorld. In her 20 years at the company, Jen has played a pivotal role in driving BioWorld's expansion, helping position the company as a leading global branded merchandise manufacturer and distribution platform. She continues to spearhead innovative licensing initiatives and to develop the company's strategic licensing partnerships worldwide. Jen, we're very excited to have you on the show today. Jen Staley: Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here. David Schnider: So, I want to start with the same first question I ask all of our guests, which is, how did you get into the licensing industry? Jen Staley: I’ve told this story many times, especially in mentoring the younger staff. My first job out of college, I worked for this really super cool magazine called LA Style. It was a big format magazine, you know, fashion, decor. I loved this job. I loved everything about it. And unfortunately, the magazine was owned by American Express and they didn't love being in the publishing business. So that was the end of that. So, as we all know, you are nobody until you've been laid off. So got laid off from my very first job that I loved. And the one thing that I knew that was important to me in whatever I was going to pivot to next is that I really enjoyed seeing the physical results of all of my work and my efforts. It brought all the labor to life. And that was really important to me. Fortunately, my boss at LA Style was a great mentor. And she was really the one that pointed that out so that I could take that piece of information and move into what would be my career for the rest of my career, which, you know, that knowledge really, really put me on a path to consumer products. Before BioWorld, I worked at Warner Brothers, and before Warner Brothers, I worked at Disney. So, consumer products has really been my passion, for the rest of my career. And, I am super thankful that I'm in an industry that I love, I continue to learn. I love the people. It's a great business. As you guys know, a really small industry, but it's a really passionate industry. David Schnider: So BioWorld is a global company now, but when you joined it 20 years ago, what was it like? Jen Staley: Yeah, in the early days, I know, in the dark ages. BioWorld is 25 years old. And so, I joined about five years in, it was a small headwear company and there was lots of opportunity. I mean, my role at BioWorld has really challenged me. I've learned a ton. Every single year I learned something new. And, going to work at a licensee after working at the studios, it was very different. The one thing I to this day that I still love about it, it's very entrepreneurial. But with that in the early days, entrepreneurial meant not a lot of process. And, I wanted to get my hands around what I had to work with at FireWorld. So, I was like, where are the contracts? They're like, there's the contract file cabinet. Great. It had folders in it. Folders that didn't necessarily have contracts in them. They might have had like a deal memo or a handwritten note or something. And so, it was a more casual industry then. And, you know, 20 years later, we've evolved, we have systems now for all these things. But in the, in those early days, you know, there was a lot to understand and to put together to create a foundation that we could grow a business on. David Schnider: Can you tell us a little bit about the history of the company and how it started before you joined? Jen Staley: Yeah, absolutely. Raj Malik is the owner and founder and he saw a white space in the market and that was that there weren’t accessories to coordinate with what was selling in apparel for the music licenses. And so, in partnership with Giant and his longtime friend, Brad Coleman, they started to do some licenses that included accessories for acts like Slipknot and Limp Bizkit and things like that. And it really was a black beanie business at that point. Hot Topic and Spencer's being the kind of the origin retailers. And with that came consumers responding, to, you know, they're seeing accessories being sold for their favorite music artists. And in response to that, they start asking for more. And that's how all of this evolves is the consumer is saying, can I get a wallet, maybe a chain wallet to go with my Limp Bizkit black knit beanie? And so, it was really organic in the beginning that the consumer was there were kind of guiding the categories that were onboarded. And some of those categories are still big pieces of our business today, like headwear. The original category is big and important category for with bags, whereas CD holders that you put on your car visor, that kind of transitioned out along with the CDs. But some of the things, lasted and some were just trends that were then replaced with a new trend. David Schnider: So how many employees were there when you joined? Jen Staley: Probably 50. And I think now globally we're near 700. David Schnider: And how many product lines when you joined? Jen Staley: Well, just the one headwear category with some other things emerging. But now we have 20 categories across apparel, sleepwear, accessories, home, and even party supplies. And we have offices in 13 countries. Yeah, we're continuing to grow. We have a roadmap for growth. So, I'm really excited about that. Greg Pan: Then you joined after working at Disney and Warner Brothers. Was that a transition where they're kind of moving from not just adding, having musicians and bands in their portfolio to more pop culture, entertainment, traditional properties? Jen Staley: Yeah, and that's really my comfort zone, honestly. Coming from an entertainment background, that's where I have maybe better sense of what's going to work. But we have experts here in all the genres that we support. So, we have a sports division, we have obviously still a very hearty music roster. Entertainment is the very big bucket. And we have fashion brands. And we've added the staffing and the expertise that we've needed to be able to, pursue and support those different types of businesses. David Schnider: So, you talked about when the company started it was driven by directly by the consumers, they wanted products to go with their brand merch I'm guessing 20 years later. It's a little bit different. How do you pick products now? What drives the product selection? Jen Staley: Well, some of it's the same. We're listening to the consumer. We have different ways to listen to them now. We have a lot of data, lots of systems, lots of analysis. So, we can measure what that consumer, what their expectations are. But it's still about the consumer. No matter where we're getting the information, we're steering the business to respond to what the consumer is looking for. And that could be product lines. It could be steering to other retailers, other countries, we're all evolving in this together. So, understanding where that consumer is and what their expectations are is important for our decision making. The product lines evolve with that. David Schnider: When we talked to Cindy Levitt from Hot Topic, she said something really similar about how they started and how was a lot of customer feedback. And they would gather it oftentimes through their sales associates who were on the floor. You guys are a little bit different because you're producing the goods. How and especially now, what are your sources of data? How are you gathering information about what consumers want? Jen Staley: Yeah, well, very similarly, Cindy saw it go from literally a piece of paper, you know, tacked to the wall of the store where their consumer is writing, you know, what they what they want next, to information coming out of analytics. And so, it's the same. It's the same for us, just a flip of the coin. We've both seen that that evolution in data and information change. Greg Pan: When you go to retailers, do you find that they're receptive to that? Because for example, you find that there's huge audience for potential IP or brand out there and retailers haven't really jumped on that. How is it trying to convince retailers that you should really consider looking at this property, of course, buying from Bioworld. How is that conversation usually going these days? Jen Staley: You know, we take a lot of information. we have the tools to acquire the information. And so, we want to go in and be confident about it. Some of it is that, we have our own testing strategy. And so, we can produce the data ourselves to show that something sells. So, if it's a, let's say it's a property that no one's ever tried before. So, we can put it on Amazon obviously, throw some marketing against it to drive traffic to see if the consumer wants that product, wants that item. Or we have a direct-to-consumer site called Heroes and Villains, a great testing ground, even though the superhero properties don't necessarily need to be tested, we get out of that the types of things within that genre that the consumer is attracted to. Luggage, a few years ago and we put some luggage on the Heroes and Villains site and let me tell you we can't that stuff in stock. It is amazing. So, we can take that information and take it to a retailer and say this is the style the consumer prefers. This is how they want their luggage to work, to travel, to be executed. And then we have all the information to show our own selling experience to then guide theirs. If it's a property that you want to educate a retailer or a buyer on, sometimes you have to use a few methods. Like me, I don't know everything about all of the properties. So, I have to, you, you’ve got to sell me. And so, we have to do the same thing that, you know, we've got to go to the buyer and tell them, listen, this brand has this many likes, this many followers, this many subscribers, look at all this evidence that it's something you should at least test. And so, depending on the property or the project, that information is useful. And then sometimes you got to get a little creative. Maybe take the influencer to the buyer meeting with you so they can see firsthand why there's popularity there. David Schnider: How many different properties do you guys now license? Jen Staley: Boy, that is a really good question that I cannot answer because a lot of the properties are in rosters. We have almost a couple hundred clients. And so, within each of those clients, sometimes it's obviously one, one brand or one property. And some of those relationships have a whole roster behind them. We sell every tier of distribution, every channel across 20 different categories. So, it takes about that many clients to feed the consumer all the things that they want in all of those places. David Schnider: And are you are you then constantly looking for new properties to add? Jen Staley: Oh yes, we are constantly, we have a team of people that their job is to find the next best thing and there is no limit to what that could look like. Content is coming from all directions and so we're looking in all directions. So, it could be a YouTuber, it could be a content creator. That's a really exciting new part of the market where you have individuals creating content and basically making a business all by themselves, which is really, I think, which is really exciting, very entrepreneurial. And since we're an entrepreneurial company, we're very understanding of what those individuals or those creators need and what they need to fuel their goals. They're good at their thing. We're good at our thing. You put those two things together and we have the infrastructure to support all those types of businesses. And part of that is a result of the fact that we have grown category by category. And some of that growth was organic. We went from headwear to bags to small accessories to apparel to sleepwear. All those decisions, some of that growth was organic and then some of it was our own acquisitions. And so, I think that's important to call out because it's not just an acquisition of a license that's growing our business. It's the acquisition of some companies. So, our first acquisition years ago was Nolan Glove Company. Mike Nolan works with us to this day, running that division of youth headwear and accessories. And he also heads up some of our other divisions out of our New York office. And that put us in the kid’s headwear business, where before our focus had been adults, right? Because we were doing all those music licenses. And then after that, we wanted to expand our adult bag business. So, we acquired the Global Design Concepts, which was a youth bag company. Greg's nodding. He remembers Global. Greg Pan: Yeah, I remember that. Jen Staley: And then Vandor, a home molded ceramics company, beautiful product. We launched our home category business based on that Vandor acquisition. And that company was such a great fit because their aesthetic was better, really highly designed, really technical product. And that's really the heart of our product development. So that was a great fit and great for us to be able to grow our home business. And then the most recent company acquisitions are Packed Party, is a really wonderful party supply company. Beautiful product, again, elevated, a great fit for what we're trying to accomplish under all things BioWorld. And it's not only elevated, but it's steered a little older. So, it's not the little kid, like a kindergarten birthday party product. It's really about people that want to create a beautiful party. And it's more a design aesthetic than it is just a simple party supply. So, I'm really excited about the opportunity there. We're just starting to add some co-labs into that business. So, there's a lot of potential with the Packed Party brand. And then in Europe, we acquired Character World brands. And they specialize in home products, bedding, some home decor items, and that expanded our distribution across all of Europe, across more accessory and home categories. And then we have a new one that I'm not ready to announce today, but there will be announcement very soon about a new acquisition that we're making in the art space. And so that's a real exciting opportunity that is different than the other acquisitions that we've made. David Schnider: We'll have to keep our eyes open for that at Licensing Expo this year. Jen Staley: I know, you've got to watch for the next press release on what we're up to. David Schnider: So, having that kind of expansive product reach, does that mean when you're bringing in a license, you have the opportunity to expand it potentially across multiple product lines and multiple geographies? Jen Staley: Absolutely. You know what? Ecom has made the consumer have a borderless, like a territory-less experience. And so, we want to be able to take brands on that same global journey where you've got a fan and a consumer across the globe. We want to be able to meet their needs wherever they are. Greg Pan: Yeah, you've been really smart about using e-commerce in your business sounds like one, you're using it for data to kind of test IP properties. So, it's both a, for some companies, just pure vertical business, but you're using it as a kind of R&D as well. And then that also provides protection because when you mentioned Packed Party, industry was affected all the party licenses out there by Party City and Epscan. So, it's a massive market. So, you need those distributors, but if have e-commerce, you already have that pre-built then that protects you a little bit from just relying on the retailer. Jen Staley: Yeah, yeah, and if you go on the Packed Party website, you can see examples of what I was talking about relative to the really elevated look of the product. It's really special. Greg Pan: Has Bioworld ever looked into acquiring brands or IP to include in its portfolio as well? Jen Staley: You know what? Yes, actually, I should have named another acquisition that we made, Portland Accessories. Portland Accessories is the headwear vendor for New Balance. And so, we acquired them as a strategic move to further our brand experience. And so New Balance, DC Shoes, Realtree, we have a nice group of licenses that fit into that brand structure. And then we have way more brands that we're doing in luggage, which I can't even list off. Definitely brands make up a piece of our business. It's a nice way to balance out the entertainment properties. David Schnider: Going back to content creators, we have a lot of people who will approach us and they're artists or content creators, they're putting out content, they're creating characters and stories, and they're interested in licensing. But is there a level that someone has to reach, either in terms of exposure or content that they create, before it really makes sense for you to consider them as a potential licensor? Jen Staley: I mean, yes and no, right? Like we like to people grow. So there certainly is a baseline for the awareness that a creator or a brand needs to have accomplished in order for it to be viable in other categories. For that very reason, because you know, I get those phone calls all the time also. And I love to talk to people. And sometimes, you know, I talk to them and then two years later, they call me back. They're like, we did exactly what you said. Are you ready? I'm like, I'm ready. So, I need to be a part of those entrepreneurial people's journey and to see them, accomplish their goals. And in order to do that in a bigger way we started an investment arm of the company called BioWorld Ventures. And the whole purpose of that extension is to support the next generation of consumer brands, whether that is a creator, influencer, or just a startup. Sometimes, or all the time, those individuals need equity capital maybe. Maybe they need, venture debt opportunities. Maybe they just need professional guidance. But that arm of the company is there to pursue strategic partners. And that could be big and small. David Schnider: Is there sort of a minimum number of views or likes or followers that people need to take advantage of that? Jen Staley: You know what, I don't know the answer to that question. I think everything, you know, we're going to measure everything, right? We're going to look at the Instagram subscribers. We're going to look at views. We're going to, if there's already an existing business, we're going to look at, you know, can they sell product, right? Are they willing to market? Like that's, that is really important. You can have millions of subscribers, but if you're not willing to market the product, then you're not investing in the partnership in the same way that we are. So, I think all of those factors are important in our evaluation of what that next project's going to be. David Schnider: Yeah. Do you think, I ask this of almost every guest, but do you think that there's a move away from tent pole properties and to more niche properties now with social media and other ways to reach consumers? Jen Staley: I think they're both going to exist. I think people still want to go to the movies. I know we all took a break from going to the movies, but I think, and my heart goes out to the movie theaters, but you know what? The movie theaters are doing something right now that's really interesting. It doesn't quite answer your question, so I'll circle back to it. But I love this trend of these movie theater buckets that are designed right to the release. So, like the Devil Wears Prada popcorn bag, you know, that was sold out before the movie even launched. I really love this for the theaters, for the tent pole releases, for the person that wants to go see the movie. I think it's taking something that may be a little broken and fixing it. I think we have to look at every business like that because we don't want the tent poles to go away and we don't want people to stop going to the movies or watching their favorite shows, streaming it, wherever they're getting the content, we want to be able to encourage success. Greg Pan: So, have there been any kind of properties or new genres that have surprised you in how quickly it's grown or, you know, underwhelmed, didn't perform as much as well as you thought? Jen Staley: Well, maybe, maybe I was most surprised by Labubu. Greg Pan: I think everyone was. David Schnider: I still don't get it. Jen Staley: I mean, a lot of people on staff that were going crazy for them, putting them on their bags. That surprised me. But maybe I'm not, I say maybe because I also look at something in a way that if it is weird, the weirder it is maybe the more successful it's going to be. And there are some properties that fell into that decision making even before data, where we looked at something and we were like, that is so weird. It's got to be good. And so maybe I shouldn't be surprised by the Labubu but I was. And then I think the other thing that continues to surprise me is how big the blind box industry is. Because I wouldn't buy something that I didn't know what I was buying, but people do. And I know it's a collector mentality, we do a ton of blind boxes and all sorts of items within those boxes, continues to surprise me that that model is still growing. David Schnider: Where do you sort of see the future growth opportunities in licensing? Jen Staley: I’m really excited about our sports division. We've got great traction there. We've got a great team of people leading the licensing and acquisitions, all the decision making there. So, I think the sky's the limit on that one. I think we just scratched the surface in what we're doing. And I've got to say the product development and the original illustrations that have been done are like nothing you've ever seen. And I think that's something we're going to be really, really proud of. And I think it's a direction that we'll continue to invest in. David Schnider: Do you think sports is growing in general or is it just sort of a new category for you guys? Jen Staley: It's a new category for us, for sure. I think sports has become for everyone, right? You’ve always had the really fanatical fan that, you know, who stands in the winter cold with his chest painted, right? But now you have women, you know, I'm one, so don't take this the wrong way, but I might just want to buy a cute shirt to participate, right? Because I'm not super into sports myself, but now I want to participate more than I had in the past. So, I think the trend is bringing in a fashion consumer, bringing in a more casual sports enthusiast or a growing enthusiast. And I think that's driving some of it. And certainly, showed in the data that we looked at as we were making decisions. David Schnider: Yeah, I'm a diehard LA Galaxy fan. I've stood in the rain watching my team play. No snow in LA, thankfully. But I have noticed over the last... Jen Staley: There you go. There's no more diehard fan than the one that's rooting for, you know, the underdog. David Schnider: Well, so unfortunately, I've been doing that the last couple of years. Prior to that, they were not. But I did notice one of the shifts in their own marketing strategy is they have started doing licenses or collaborations with higher-end apparel companies and coming out with more interesting products that tend to sell out quickly and engage the fan base. Jen Staley: The luxury brands have been doing it for a while now. Gucci came out with, know, collabs for the, you know, the New York teams, for LA Dodgers, you know, where they had just initials on the product. It's happening at the highest end. So that means it's going to come down to the more accessible products. Greg Pan: I presume when this podcast drops, it'll be close to licensing expo. I presume you go every year. What's kind of your goal? When you go there, what are the types of things you're looking out for, what are you trying to accomplish? Jen Staley: Well, think we'll definitely go see what all the studios are showing to make sure that we have a good understanding of everything that we should be working on for them. We're going to meet some new people, which is exciting. So that could lead to some future license signings. And then we're going to be with our long-term partners, just enjoying some face time and some fun. I think we all lost a lot in those COVID years where we couldn't get together. So, I think we all appreciate even more that we are together again. Greg Pan: Right. And for anyone who wasn't familiar, so Licensing Exposé, industry convention in Las Vegas that's been held every year for, I think last one was in Javits maybe 20 years ago, but more than that. But it's where all the licensors, licensees, retailers, buyers in the industry kind of meet and convene, do deals, catch up, see what's new, try to, know, figure out where the trends are. So, Jen, do you have any suggestions for new licensees or new brands that are going to license the show for the first time. Jen Staley: Walk the floor, walk the entire floor, corner to corner. There will be some, little gem, might be a little license that is, maybe tucked away in some of the smaller booths, but I would encourage people to really look at everything. You know, there's tons of opportunities out there. David Schnider: We talk frequently about how this is a relationship-driven business and everybody knows each other. I definitely had a sense of what you were talking about when we were finally able to come back from COVID. People were really excited to be together again. I'm a little curious though, as data drives more of the buying decisions, do you think the relationships remain just as important as they always were? Jen Staley: I hope so because I think that is really the secret to this business being so fun is that the people and the relationships that we have with each other, a lot of us go way, way back and some of us are a little bit recycled. And so, our networks are wider. But I think that being together and having strong relationships, that's what makes the path smoother when you have rough times. And we've had rough times the last several years, whether it be...COVID or otherwise, been some real challenges in the last few years. And sometimes that means you have to have some really open and honest discussions with your partners about the impact that that could...whatever the challenge is, could have to your business. And if you don't already have that strong relationship with each other, I think that makes those tough conversations even harder. And so, I don't think the relationship piece should be discounted at all. David Schnider: Did you find when we were going through COVID that you a lot of licensors you work with, but that in large part that they were cooperative in trying to deal with the challenges that created? Jen Staley: Yes, yeah, you know, we were all in it together. We're all scared, right? The uncertainty was palpable. And so, I think that the common feelings really brought everyone together towards a common goal. I mean, we launched a mask business. We worked with the partners and we had product in, we had pallets dropping into stores within two, three months. So, we had a really supportive group of people that said, hey, let's turn this into something good. Let's provide people, especially parents, where you know how hard it is to keep a mask on a kid, right? Like, I don't like to wear a mask. How do you think the kid feels? But if you put their favorite licensed property on it, it's making that job so much more so much easier for the parent. So, there was some really good outcomes of all the partners coming together and saying, hey, this is something we should do and provide for the consumers. David Schnider: Are there any trends you see going forward in the industry emerging? Jen Staley: You know, it's kind of a product trend, but everything's getting smaller. Right? Everything went really big. People are drinking out of big, like Stanley thermoses and everything's tiny again. I didn't see that coming, but, you know, I think that that's an interesting like product trend, I think. David Schnider: Yeah, I never understood the Stanley thermoses, but there is a member of my household who uses one regularly. Jen Staley: Yes, yeah, I need to drink that much water, but now they're actually making the small version of the actual amount of water I drink. So, it's more in line with my consumption. David Schnider: Jen, thank you so much for coming onto the podcast with us. We really enjoyed talking to you. Do you want to share any information, contact information for BioWorld or for you if people want to find out more about you or the company? Jen Staley: Yeah, you know what, our website is bioworldcorp.com and all the contact information is on the site and I can also be found through my LinkedIn, Jennifer Staley. David Schnider: All right, great. Well, was a pleasure talking to you. We look forward to seeing you at Licensing Show. Jen Staley: I'll see you there! Greg Pan: Thanks, Jennifer. Announcer: Thanks for listening to the Licensing Exchange. 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