Latest / The Downbeat / THE AMITY AFFLICTION - NEW VOCALIST, LOVE, LOSS AND MENTAL HEALTH

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THE AMITY AFFLICTION - NEW VOCALIST, LOVE, LOSS AND MENTAL HEALTH · The Downbeat

• 0:00
  What's up guys, Welcome back to the Downbeat podcast.
• 0:02
  My guests on the podcast this week are Johnny Reeves and Joel
• 0:05
  Birch, the singers of the Amy Affliction.
• 0:08
  We talk about the events that led up to the new edition of
• 0:11
  Johnny and the unlikely but separate upbringings that bring
• 0:14
  meaning to the lyrics on their new album, House of Cards.
• 0:18
  Before we get started, I want to let you know we have a
• 0:19
  patreonpatreon.com/the Downbeat on it.
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  I hope you love it. I love it, I'm wearing it all
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  the time. Time.
• 1:00
  As you can see www.the downbeat dot at So it Spells Downbeat.
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  Check it out. As ever, this episode of the
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  It's Johnny and Joel of The Amity Affliction on the Downbeat
• 2:22
  Podcast. Just talking about Zen's.
• 2:35
  Hi everyone. Hi.
• 2:37
  Hi. Please introduce yourselves.
• 2:38
  Hi, I'm Joel. I'm Johnny.
• 2:40
  From The Amity Affliction. They're both.
• 2:42
  The singer, I'm half singer and he's half singer.
• 2:46
  And he's half singer, 1/2 fresh face.
• 2:48
  Where's that accent? California.
• 2:51
  Oh my God. We're all over the place now.
• 2:53
  I didn't know that. Yeah, I thought it was going to
• 2:56
  be an Aussie. No, we're 5050 now.
• 3:00
  Expensive too. Well, cheaper actually.
• 3:03
  Is it? Of course it is.
• 3:05
  Oh shit the US vis is the expensive.
• 3:07
  One the US vis is also the the flights from the bottom of the
• 3:10
  fucking planet to everywhere else.
• 3:12
  So I was the cheaper choice. I'm saying I've lined them up in
• 3:17
  like an excel spreadsheet of like cost per annum.
• 3:22
  Yeah, yeah, this cost benefit, cost benefit.
• 3:24
  Is is Joe mad that it's you 2? Have you even spoke to him?
• 3:28
  He lives. Here he does live, here he has a
• 3:30
  kid and he is home for what, 12-12 days or something?
• 3:35
  Yeah, like not very long. Yeah, I text him like, I don't
• 3:40
  know, a week ago just asking him how his brain was because I
• 3:44
  guess we did the European Tour with Parkway and he only came
• 3:48
  for the second-half of it. So it was like 3 weeks really.
• 3:52
  Yeah, because fresh kid Roman was born just before the first
• 3:57
  half of the tour and so he stayed home.
• 4:00
  And then coming to Australia is the first long stretch away from
• 4:05
  Roman. You know, I've got a kid and I
• 4:07
  remember and I could see the, the it's stressful.
• 4:12
  The time difference is is so bad.
• 4:15
  Yeah, the time difference and I think as well like with a with a
• 4:19
  new kid, especially for the dad, because we're pretty useless
• 4:23
  really. We have, we have nothing, we
• 4:26
  have nothing to give other than like like skin to skin kind of
• 4:30
  contact. And so he was struggling with
• 4:33
  that. So I haven't bothered him here.
• 4:35
  I'm going to see him tomorrow. I just hope he's not annoyed
• 4:39
  that I haven't asked him. I think every time I see him, I
• 4:41
  might come on the podcast and then obviously kids stuff.
• 4:43
  Yeah. It's not me, Joe, it's you.
• 4:46
  By the way, when was the last time I saw you?
• 4:48
  I saw you like I seriously think I was just thinking about this
• 4:52
  like pre COVID in the in the backroom somewhere in the UK and
• 4:57
  you just you'd been doing this like not even for that long did
• 5:03
  I see you after. That I've seen you once since
• 5:05
  then. OK which I was low key dreading
• 5:09
  this episode slightly. Oh why?
• 5:11
  Just because I feel like most of the times me and you chat it is
• 5:17
  intensely bad mental health stuff.
• 5:21
  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and obviously the fucking
• 5:24
  events of this week, my brain is in that place anyway.
• 5:27
  And I'm like kind of drag it all up again, but we're going to.
• 5:30
  I know, sorry. Which is what reminded me the
• 5:33
  last time I saw you, you were having a bit of a crisis on a
• 5:37
  tour. It hasn't ended.
• 5:40
  I know that we'll get into that. I'm sorry, but you were having
• 5:43
  like a, you know, when it boils over and I think I did the same
• 5:49
  to you when I was in Australia. I was like, do you have
• 5:53
  something? I think we like and don't do
• 5:56
  this guys. Yeah, I was trying to help.
• 5:58
  Exchanging mental health medications because you're in a
• 6:02
  different country. A different country and you run
• 6:04
  out or something. Yeah.
• 6:05
  And it was Blue Ridge. Yeah, yes, I remember.
• 6:08
  And I I gave you some mirtazapine and you didn't like
• 6:11
  it. Who knows?
• 6:13
  I can't. Yeah, don't do that, kids.
• 6:16
  Don't. You shouldn't do that, but you
• 6:18
  should do it at the same time. You should do that for your
• 6:21
  friends if you think it's going to help.
• 6:22
  If it's prescribed then it's going to help them.
• 6:24
  If you think it's not going to harm them.
• 6:26
  Yeah, just just made me fat. And my Dick.
• 6:28
  No, my Dick still worked actually, but I got really fat.
• 6:31
  You got really fat. Makes you hungry as fuck.
• 6:35
  But I think the American name for it is like Remmeron or
• 6:40
  something. One of the you know when
• 6:41
  Americans give it a fuck, you know more than me.
• 6:44
  You give it a name and it's called like Zanzibar.
• 6:46
  Yeah. And then you're gonna feel
• 6:49
  great. And then right in the end it's
• 6:50
  like you might shit out of garage.
• 6:52
  You know what, I was just watching ad this morning and I
• 6:54
  was like, fuck, I love these ads because at the end they do like
• 6:58
  the yeah, and it's just like, you're going to want to fucking
• 7:00
  kill yourself and shoot yourself and you're going to fucking die.
• 7:02
  But and. The first half is just leading
• 7:06
  up to it like you are going to have the most amazing day.
• 7:09
  Take back your life, I finished. Like your life may end, may
• 7:14
  increase all of the things we said it was not.
• 7:16
  Going to do, but you don't want to kill yourself.
• 7:19
  Well, you might. You might take this and then you
• 7:22
  might, but you declined a Zen a minute ago.
• 7:25
  I did, yeah. And I wanted to know because I
• 7:28
  am, I'm a post user of things like I don't do it anymore.
• 7:33
  Yeah. Used to fucking love it.
• 7:35
  Yeah. My voice is nicotine now.
• 7:38
  Do you have a voice? Yeah, so I mean, it's a bit
• 7:42
  weird though, like I would say like.
• 7:46
  Not on, not put on camera. Weird.
• 7:48
  No, it's no, no, no. It's like like golf.
• 7:51
  I play golf. I'm like, it's so weird.
• 7:55
  Like I I started playing golf, right, because Aaron played golf
• 8:02
  and I thought if I play golf, maybe I can get him on the golf
• 8:06
  course and, you know, curb the drinking a little bit.
• 8:10
  It didn't work. And I hated golf, man.
• 8:13
  Like, I hated it. I was like, fuck this sport.
• 8:16
  Like it's hard. I don't know how to do it.
• 8:19
  There's like heaps of rich people around.
• 8:21
  Like I didn't really like it. And now I'm like, I'm a loser.
• 8:25
  Like, I love it. I love it.
• 8:28
  Yeah, dude, I'm serious. It's like it's like all
• 8:32
  consuming. You know Alice did that to kick
• 8:34
  an addiction. Who Alice?
• 8:36
  Cooper Oh, actually, I knew that.
• 8:37
  Yeah, yeah. And now he's a fucking insane
• 8:40
  handicap, I think. He's really good.
• 8:42
  He shot like a like 400 or 300 the other day or some shit.
• 8:46
  I saw him at a festival and he opened with School's Out, Yeah.
• 8:50
  And I was like, what on earth is he going to end with?
• 8:53
  Just played, School's Out again. See, that's a power wise.
• 8:56
  That's a power move. Fucking you can't.
• 8:58
  You can't. You can't beat that.
• 9:00
  No one complained. And even when it happened, I
• 9:02
  went, yeah, that's it. You.
• 9:04
  That's you strive as a career. You strive to have two songs,
• 9:08
  one that can open the set forever and one that can close
• 9:10
  the set. Why not just cut it in half?
• 9:13
  Find one? Fuck, I just imagine like
• 9:17
  opening with Pittsburgh and then like going off stage and coming,
• 9:21
  coming back and playing it. Wait.
• 9:23
  This is the thing. They would fucking love it.
• 9:26
  They would love it. Johnny.
• 9:28
  Yeah, Not Jonathan. Not Jonathan.
• 9:31
  Johnny. Referred to as Jonathan, I'm on
• 9:33
  the Internet. It's it's like my legal name
• 9:36
  that I write on all, you know, formal documents and that's how
• 9:39
  it but. You're a Johnny.
• 9:40
  Came to be, yeah. Identifies Johnny.
• 9:42
  Got any voices, Johnny? Careful, because he's right here
• 9:46
  and he might kick you out the back.
• 9:47
  Not apparently I'm the only one that does that so.
• 9:56
  Yeah, I'm not really into the whole golf thing, but I I mean,
• 10:00
  I smoke weed at home. That's about.
• 10:02
  That's about Madison. I don't start touring, really.
• 10:04
  Spends like 2 hours a day in the gym.
• 10:07
  Gym Gym Guy I. Didn't know if that was could
• 10:09
  count as a vice because it's like no.
• 10:10
  It's not a vice like, but golf is not really a vice.
• 10:13
  Yeah, it's just like you've got a thing.
• 10:15
  I got you. I got.
• 10:16
  You. Are you a gym guy?
• 10:17
  Yeah, I'm doing it. I've been working out.
• 10:19
  For like I see it. 10 years and I look exactly the same so.
• 10:22
  No, it's because you do what I do, which is like, I wear
• 10:25
  oversized shit all the time and then someone catches me when
• 10:30
  I've got a T-shirt on, it doesn't fit me and I'm like,
• 10:32
  fucking hell, you've started going to the gym.
• 10:34
  I'm like, well, it's always been here for fucking ages, thank you
• 10:39
  very much. Did you go to the gym today?
• 10:41
  No, yesterday I'm doing this new program, it's like every other
• 10:45
  day, full body type circuit thing go away for a.
• 10:49
  Second, yeah. What's?
• 10:49
  This. What's this?
• 10:50
  What's this program? What is it?
• 10:52
  Honestly I just found it on YouTube.
• 10:53
  Full body every other day. Yeah, like 4.
• 10:56
  Times. That's kind of that's kind of
• 10:57
  brutal. It's like a quickened version of
• 11:00
  like, you know, a full body workout.
• 11:02
  And the guy was like, oh, this is how all the pros trained
• 11:05
  before steroids and all that, you know?
• 11:07
  But it's new, so I'll let you know how it goes.
• 11:10
  What are you doing in Nashville, firstly?
• 11:12
  Visiting you? You came all the way here for
• 11:15
  this. Yes, that's pressure.
• 11:18
  No, no pressure. Well, we were supposed to do it
• 11:21
  in Australia, I think. Yeah, but that was way too much
• 11:24
  pressure. Yeah, I remember when that got
• 11:26
  floated and I was like, what is he thinking?
• 11:31
  Because like, I know what? It was a live.
• 11:33
  Podcast really and it doesn't know, but I I know what happens
• 11:36
  in your head a little bit and I was like this this man thinks
• 11:39
  he's doing stuff like. What do you mean?
• 11:42
  What do you explain? I have this problem with my
• 11:45
  brain where like, you know, like before coming here, for
• 11:50
  instance, to America, I was like planning, planning all this
• 11:54
  stuff I was going to do. And then it gets closer.
• 11:57
  I'm like. Oh, you're you nailed it.
• 12:00
  I'm like. Yeah, and then the fear hits.
• 12:05
  Yeah, and then you shrivel a little baby.
• 12:08
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You absolutely fucking nailed
• 12:10
  it. Because I was going to do it at
• 12:11
  the end of Stray's last Australian podcast.
• 12:15
  And then do you know what it was though?
• 12:16
  I actually, I was up for doing it and I had a short list of
• 12:19
  people and you guys were on the shortlist and I think you guys
• 12:24
  turned it down. No one was in town and everyone
• 12:27
  on the on the shortlist wasn't available.
• 12:29
  Now we were going to fly to Melbourne.
• 12:32
  I. Didn't think that got to me.
• 12:33
  Really, we were in Sydney and we're going to fly down because
• 12:37
  we were recording. Oh, I thought, well anyway, I
• 12:40
  wouldn't have done it with you guys, but I remember getting to
• 12:42
  the end of that tour and being like, thank fuck I haven't done
• 12:46
  that yet. It would have been nice.
• 12:47
  It would have been fun. Though it would have been fun,
• 12:49
  but then you would have been like twice as burnt out as you
• 12:52
  already were. When does the tour start?
• 12:54
  On the 10th. So are you practicing here?
• 12:57
  We're practicing in Lititz. Do you know where that is?
• 12:59
  How the fuck is that? It's like an hour and a half
• 13:01
  from, Yeah, it's in Pennsylvania.
• 13:03
  It's like an hour and a half from Philly.
• 13:07
  And it is a purpose built hotel with studios.
• 13:14
  Kind of sick. It's really sick.
• 13:16
  It's the middle of nowhere. Though no golf.
• 13:20
  Does that mean there is golf or there isn't golf?
• 13:22
  There'll definitely be gyms. You're fine.
• 13:23
  Yeah. There's golf like close.
• 13:26
  You golf on tour? Yeah, Every day.
• 13:29
  It's a. Problem as much as I can.
• 13:30
  Yeah, but that now. So now it makes sense with the
• 13:33
  stopping drinking because that that takes you out the whole
• 13:35
  day. Yeah, but I didn't.
• 13:37
  I mean, I didn't. I've been sober now 10 years and
• 13:42
  playing golf for 2 1/2. So I did 7 1/2 without it, but I
• 13:48
  got like during COVID, I started doing Muay Thai and it's like
• 13:52
  any anything to fill the void. Golf just came after Muay Thai.
• 13:57
  Like I hurt my head, I hurt myself, I couldn't train.
• 14:00
  I started playing GG filled the gap that Muay Thai was filling.
• 14:05
  And then before that, it was like, I mean, three years I
• 14:09
  haven't gambled, but gambling was like gambling took the reins
• 14:14
  after drinking. See this, this is what I was
• 14:16
  saying about the voice thing. Because most people don't go
• 14:19
  straight from drinking drugs like drugs as well.
• 14:23
  Everything. Most people don't go from
• 14:24
  drinking drugs straight to golf. There's usually no the milder
• 14:28
  thing in been milder. Yeah, it's not, it's not that
• 14:32
  milder. I, I was like talking to a
• 14:35
  friend and this is like years before I even stopped gambling.
• 14:39
  And we were sitting there and I was like, man, I was like, don't
• 14:42
  you reckon this is just like self harm?
• 14:45
  And he was like, Yep. And I was like, yeah, it's like
• 14:47
  we're not cutting ourselves. But every time we fucking do
• 14:50
  this, it's just like, oh, I'm a piece of shit.
• 14:53
  I'm a piece of shit. I'm a piece of shit.
• 14:55
  I'm a piece of shit. What are we gambling on?
• 14:57
  Everything. Do you mean everything?
• 14:59
  I was like mainly playing pokies, right, Because we have
• 15:01
  them all over Australia. Pokies.
• 15:03
  Pokies like the poker machines, you know, in Vegas.
• 15:06
  The real depressing photos of all the old people.
• 15:08
  Slot machines. Yeah, I thought that was called.
• 15:10
  Pokies because you poke. No, it's like poker machine and
• 15:14
  Australia's dumb. So we.
• 15:16
  But it's like an automated you're not even playing against
• 15:17
  humans. No, man, you're not playing
• 15:19
  anything. It's like pushing a band.
• 15:22
  So they have like a fucking army of psychologists who are working
• 15:25
  on these games and they hit the same like pleasure receptors as
• 15:30
  like heroin and alcohol and all this stuff.
• 15:33
  So you're like getting a little dopamine.
• 15:36
  It's like everything is made. The lights, the music, the
• 15:41
  pictures are made to, like, suck you into it.
• 15:45
  I used to love gambling on tour. I'm, I'm weird, right?
• 15:49
  I with everything. I have an addictive personality,
• 15:52
  yeah. But there is always a moment
• 15:56
  where it gets nearly too much and my brain goes, Nah, we've
• 16:01
  got to stop this right now. Yeah, I'm similar.
• 16:03
  It's mild in comparison to how bad things could get, but for
• 16:08
  some reason I'm, I'm, I'm good at it and I'm just OK.
• 16:10
  This, it could have been the worst thing that's ever happened
• 16:13
  to me. Let's fucking stop right now.
• 16:14
  Yeah, I think like with drinking, mine was I came home
• 16:19
  from recording, this could be heartbreak.
• 16:23
  And my wife was just like, don't unpack your bag.
• 16:27
  Oh no. Yeah.
• 16:28
  And then I drank. I went to my friend's house at
• 16:32
  the time and he was like, hey, there's a party tonight, Like
• 16:36
  let's take you there and get your mind off it.
• 16:39
  And I drank like half a beer and I put it on the table and I was
• 16:42
  like, this is not the way. Yeah.
• 16:46
  And that was it. There we go.
• 16:47
  My one for gambling, because I used to love gambling on tour,
• 16:52
  was actually in Sydney, in Sydney Casino.
• 16:54
  Yeah. And I fucking I lost, I think it
• 16:57
  was like 3 grand, yeah. And then I was walking.
• 17:04
  No, I lost 3 grand and then I went and I got another 3 grand
• 17:07
  out. Yeah.
• 17:09
  And I was walking. No.
• 17:11
  And I won it back. I got back to six grand from
• 17:14
  three grand and I was fucking walking out.
• 17:18
  I I like, I was in there all night.
• 17:21
  This was like 2012, I think. Was in there all night, made it
• 17:25
  back, got 6 grand, was walking to cash out.
• 17:28
  There was a fucking roulette table that we'd been black like
• 17:32
  10 times and I was like, obviously going to be red.
• 17:35
  I put it all on fucking red and it was day one of an Australian
• 17:39
  tour. I think it was the first time
• 17:40
  I'd ever been to Australia. It ruined the tour so much for
• 17:45
  me because I was so fucking annoyed at myself.
• 17:47
  I didn't have that money. I don't know what the fuck I was
• 17:49
  doing that I was. I can never ever do that again
• 17:53
  and I don't think I have gambled again since then.
• 17:56
  It was never a problem, but it was more like that was really
• 17:59
  fucking stupid. I can see myself doing this
• 18:01
  again. I'm going to just not the right.
• 18:04
  Yeah, so I went down to the local pub where I lived at the
• 18:10
  time and it was like my sober birthday is like March 7th,
• 18:14
  right? So March, March 7th I or March,
• 18:18
  March 8th I go down and I take 500 bucks out and it's like this
• 18:24
  is. Like.
• 18:25
  Dude this is like COVID right? I got no fucking money.
• 18:28
  I've been like selling everything I own just to just to
• 18:31
  pay rent. We, we were in a house paying
• 18:35
  670 a week and the owners were like, they ran hotels in Dubai.
• 18:39
  And we got a Comic Sans e-mail saying you've got to get out,
• 18:43
  we're coming home. And I, like, cut in colours.
• 18:46
  Like there were different colours.
• 18:47
  It was like different colours for each paragraph.
• 18:52
  Yeah. Like a like rainbow Comic Sans,
• 18:54
  like, get the fuck out of our house.
• 18:56
  Yeah. And our rent went from 670 a
• 19:00
  week to 950. Damn.
• 19:03
  And I mean, you know, like every other musician on earth, we
• 19:06
  couldn't tour or anything. So I was like selling fucking
• 19:11
  everything just to get by. And I went down to the pub and I
• 19:15
  took 500 bucks out and I, I sat down and I lost it in like a
• 19:19
  minute. And I sat there for like half an
• 19:22
  hour, man. And I was like, if you do this
• 19:25
  again, you're going to kill yourself.
• 19:27
  And like, I got a kid now. I was like a little kid.
• 19:30
  I've had two, I had two kids previously, but like 11
• 19:34
  biological. And I was just like, like, you
• 19:38
  know, I, it's, it's bad to say, but I always kind of figured the
• 19:44
  older kids would, would be able to like figure it out.
• 19:49
  You know what I mean? Like if I, if I killed myself or
• 19:51
  whatever, I was always like rationalizing it.
• 19:54
  But with the little guy, I was just like, he want no like he
• 19:57
  won't understand. And yeah, I sat there and I was
• 20:02
  like, if I do this again, I'm going to kill myself like
• 20:04
  properly. And then that was it.
• 20:07
  Yeah, I got and that was like 3 years ago, so.
• 20:10
  Far. That's pretty, pretty recent.
• 20:12
  It's very recent, yeah. Sorry for the interruption guys,
• 20:15
  but I want to tell you about a festival that the Downbeat of
• 20:18
  myself is going to be at and I would love to see you there.
• 20:21
  Sonic Temple Art and Music Festival takes over Columbus, OH
• 20:26
  May 14th to 17th at Historic Crew Stadium and will play host
• 20:30
  to an absolutely bonkers lineup featuring Lamb of God plus
• 20:36
  headliners Tool, Bring Me Horizon, My Chemical Romance,
• 20:40
  and Shinedown. There are four additional stages
• 20:43
  across the festival grounds and 140 plus bands in total.
• 20:47
  It's four days of metal and Hard Rock surrounded by large scale
• 20:51
  art installations, murals and immersive visuals that turn the
• 20:55
  festival grounds into a living gallery.
• 20:57
  I love a festival like that. Let me see stuff, Let me use all
• 21:01
  of these senses. As is to be expected by the big
• 21:04
  wind dog Danny Wimmer. I don't know, I'm not sure I'm
• 21:08
  allowed to call them that. Going to go with it.
• 21:09
  The lineup spans the full spectrum of rock and metal
• 21:12
  music, from Behemoth and Megadeth level intensity to the
• 21:17
  modern heavyweights like Lorna Shore Architects, Kubla Khan,
• 21:21
  all the way to the kind of stuff you don't want your grand to see
• 21:25
  on your T-shirt. Dying Fetus, Slaughter to
• 21:27
  Prevail and count with Decapitation.
• 21:29
  That's a pretty heavy lineup. 4 day and single day passes are on
• 21:33
  sale now with hotel packages, VIP and Rock royalty options.
• 21:38
  I don't know if it comes with a crown but it should be there
• 21:41
  when it happens. Get your passes now at
• 21:44
  sonictemplefestival.com. Johnny.
• 21:46
  No voices, nothing. Never had anything.
• 21:50
  It's fine. You can say no no.
• 21:51
  Yeah, I mean, not really. Fucking California born and
• 21:54
  bred. Yeah.
• 21:56
  Which part? Sacramento, like Northern.
• 22:00
  He's got he's got quite the childhood though.
• 22:03
  Go on. Thanks for.
• 22:04
  Doing my job, thanks. For doing my job for me, sorry.
• 22:06
  Sorry, come about my childhood. He's Johnny on the spot now.
• 22:09
  Please be. Happy I just like wasn't allowed
• 22:12
  to have vices I was like in such a tight grip of like my parental
• 22:18
  Overwatch, you know what I mean? I wasn't allowed to like do
• 22:20
  anything, which normally, you know, makes a person snap I
• 22:23
  guess. But I just waited it out till
• 22:28
  till I didn't have to listen anymore.
• 22:31
  And yeah, I mean, I just like my mom, I would say mainly like
• 22:36
  moved us out into the country and like, you know, I had sticks
• 22:39
  and rocks to play with. I didn't have fucking shit to
• 22:42
  do. So skateboarding, I guess, you
• 22:45
  know. He's laughing and he said you
• 22:46
  had quite the childhood. What's What's the story?
• 22:51
  Well, I mean you can tell he's like softly spoken and
• 22:54
  everything. So like the the stories come out
• 22:56
  and like drips and draps for us. And he'll just like what?
• 23:00
  He'll just like, say something one day.
• 23:02
  He's like, Oh yeah, how many siblings have you got?
• 23:05
  I have nine siblings. 9 Like direct brothers and sisters.
• 23:09
  One is half. 8.5 That's crazy. Can I ask you a question?
• 23:16
  What's that Christian household? Yes, yeah.
• 23:20
  They love shagging, they love it.
• 23:23
  They love it. Are you?
• 23:24
  Are you a Christian? No.
• 23:26
  You sure it's fine you are allowed on it?
• 23:28
  It's pentagram boost. It's was it very Christian
• 23:31
  household. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 23:34
  It was like church 4 times a week and four yeah, like.
• 23:39
  Nothing. Yeah, I, I, I did pretty
• 23:41
  similar. It was like you had you had in
• 23:43
  Australia. Yeah, I was in a bit of a cult
• 23:46
  church though it. Was a bit checked out, yeah.
• 23:49
  I mean, aren't they all? Yeah, they, they kind of all
• 23:51
  are, but it was like you go to like twice on Sunday.
• 23:55
  And then that doesn't count as four times a week.
• 23:57
  That's still one time a. Week, but then youth group.
• 24:00
  Still crazy? But then youth group and then
• 24:03
  Bible study. You will nod in your head as
• 24:05
  well. First of all, I do think if you
• 24:08
  leave the church and you come back to the church to leave
• 24:12
  again, that counts as twice. So I think you're correct here.
• 24:16
  But I did the same thing. My I went to youth group, I went
• 24:19
  to Sunday, I went to Sunday school on Sunday, we would do
• 24:23
  something later in the evening on Sunday and then we would go
• 24:26
  on Wednesdays. Yeah, that's pretty much the
• 24:29
  yeah, same shit. I mean, and I wonder, everyone's
• 24:33
  kind of crazy. That's a lot of time.
• 24:35
  Yeah, yeah, it was. It was bad.
• 24:37
  And like I didn't, I didn't have a it was so weird.
• 24:41
  I had like a stepdad, but then my mum and him would like split
• 24:44
  all the time. So I didn't have really have a
• 24:46
  dad And I had all these dudes in church being like, Hey, I can be
• 24:50
  your father figure. And I was like, what the fuck,
• 24:53
  dude? Like.
• 24:54
  That sounds like they meant well though.
• 24:57
  Maybe do? Like I'm joking about the
• 25:00
  Christian chicks. Like a vast.
• 25:03
  Majority of the people that aren't at the top mean well.
• 25:06
  Listen man, I don't know like as a as a father and like I'm old.
• 25:12
  Asking another kid. Anyone said that to Bowie?
• 25:14
  I would fucking. Forget about, there would be a
• 25:16
  problem. It's different though, because
• 25:18
  you wouldn't be around. It doesn't matter if I if I you.
• 25:21
  Think there was a diddling happening?
• 25:23
  You think there was a implied diddle?
• 25:25
  You know who Daniel Malcolm is at all?
• 25:27
  I don't expect you would. And super famous K infamous case
• 25:31
  in Australia. This kid got kidnapped from
• 25:34
  under a bridge by a paedophile, obviously, who then murdered the
• 25:39
  kid, right? Yeah, he got kidnapped at the
• 25:44
  bridge of my school slash church and the guy that did it was the
• 25:48
  nephew of one of the elders of my church.
• 25:51
  Oh, OK, yeah. And my church, the pastor knew
• 25:54
  about it, knew he was a paedophile and there was like a
• 25:58
  report that he tried to like molest a 12 year old girl in the
• 26:03
  toilets and they swept it under the.
• 26:06
  Rug. I mean I.
• 26:07
  Don't know man. I mean, I was trying to cut him
• 26:09
  some slack because he's right there.
• 26:11
  Like I was going to try to cut the Christians some slack and
• 26:13
  you're like, no, they really do all do this stuff.
• 26:15
  They. Really do.
• 26:17
  I knew the top did, but you know, fucking this is already
• 26:20
  really fucking dark. Yeah.
• 26:21
  You still speak to your family. Yeah, I mean, my dad and my mom
• 26:25
  are passed away at this point, and then my siblings and I are
• 26:28
  close. Yeah, yeah.
• 26:30
  You have. I've only met 2, two or three.
• 26:33
  I think you've met like maybe 3 or 4 of them.
• 26:35
  Yeah, lovely. How did you all of them?
• 26:37
  Meet each other a church, presumably fucking 9 * a week.
• 26:42
  Did meet each other. Fuck me Simon, it stays in.
• 26:50
  How did you? How?
• 26:51
  Did you meet each other? So we sent Aaron home.
• 26:54
  We're. Going to have to fucking talk
• 26:55
  about that at some point. Oh well, we'll talk about it.
• 26:57
  Right now, though, we played a show in Detroit and I don't know
• 27:03
  how many people were there over 2000 was a big show for us
• 27:07
  anyway. And we had had like multiple
• 27:13
  chats with him at this point over years about the drinking.
• 27:19
  And he was like, fuck yourself, fuck you, fuck all of you, you
• 27:26
  know, alcoholic, you know, I don't want to like talk shit on
• 27:30
  him. But there is like a part of this
• 27:32
  that I guess I've kept my mouth shut about.
• 27:36
  And so have the rest of the band.
• 27:38
  We haven't actually said shit, which is hard for so long
• 27:43
  because there's been like a sustained thing of Amity fans
• 27:46
  like talking shit like mainly on me saying I kicked him out of
• 27:50
  the band. And I'm like, it's not really
• 27:51
  how this works, guys. But anyway, we play the show,
• 27:54
  we're at Detroit. We have a chat with him.
• 27:59
  He like leaves after it and goes to a bar and he's like taking
• 28:08
  Valium as well. And he gets like he goes to the
• 28:11
  bar and he I guess he gets like fucking obliterated.
• 28:15
  And he came back to the venue and no one knew where he was.
• 28:20
  And Joe happened to go down into the basement of the venue to, to
• 28:25
  warm up. And Aaron was like slumped in a
• 28:28
  chair, unresponsive. And Joe couldn't wake him up.
• 28:33
  And then our Joe like panicked, obviously got our production
• 28:39
  manager Nick, who came down and like put his fist in his sternum
• 28:43
  or something to like wake him up.
• 28:46
  And then we had to call like a medic.
• 28:49
  The medic came out was pretty. It was bad.
• 28:51
  It was really bad. I ended up kicking a hole in the
• 28:55
  wall. Or in rage or.
• 28:59
  So angry. So angry, but scared Angry, you
• 29:04
  know? That's how my cousin died.
• 29:05
  Was Valium and drinking actually.
• 29:08
  It will start your fucking heart.
• 29:10
  Yeah, it was. It was scared anger, you know
• 29:12
  what I mean? And at this point on this tour,
• 29:16
  we were. We were man, like everyone's
• 29:19
  stress levels were so high. Everyone on the bus thought we
• 29:22
  were going to wake up to a dead body every day.
• 29:26
  So every day we'd wake up and be like checking to see what's
• 29:30
  going on, you know, And we were going to go home.
• 29:33
  We're like, we're done. How far into the tour are you?
• 29:37
  I think we had two weeks left or something like enough that
• 29:40
  enough that it would have fucked us to go home.
• 29:43
  Like on that tour, I think, or a roundabout that tour.
• 29:47
  Just before or on that tour, I'd text our manager and I was like
• 29:51
  I said, like, where do I stand financially if I quit the band?
• 29:55
  I was like, I'm done. I can't keep going.
• 29:58
  And he talked me out of it. He said.
• 30:00
  He talked me out of it, right? He talked you out of it with the
• 30:03
  figures or he talked you out of it.
• 30:05
  No, he talked me out of it. I was ready to like, I just
• 30:08
  bought a house that I can barely afford, right?
• 30:12
  And I was like, I don't care about this.
• 30:15
  I was like, I don't fucking care about the house.
• 30:17
  Like I'm I cannot keep going like this.
• 30:20
  And you know, Dan's Dan's not really out and about on the
• 30:25
  Internet, right? But Dan is like super.
• 30:30
  He has has it together. He's very like calm collected,
• 30:35
  like very unflappable. Dan was like, not good.
• 30:42
  He was shook. He was like texting people like
• 30:44
  I'm not well, and they're just like, wow, that's bad.
• 30:49
  And it reaches the one who's never.
• 30:51
  Yeah, he can see a situation right and come to grips with it.
• 30:54
  And he couldn't come to grips with it and none of us could.
• 30:59
  We'd flown Casey out like Aaron's partner on a different
• 31:03
  tour, and we would. It's just the end of the road,
• 31:08
  man. And so we were like, well, what
• 31:12
  do we do? And we decided, well, we have to
• 31:19
  send him home because we can't keep going like this.
• 31:23
  And we're like, we might miss a few shows, but we'll try and
• 31:26
  keep going just to like, try not to lose several $100,000.
• 31:33
  And then Dan had been listening to this band.
• 31:37
  I think they're called True North.
• 31:38
  Isn't that right? I don't know if.
• 31:40
  And the singer Tim is like a really, really good singer.
• 31:44
  We were texting like everyone, you know what I mean?
• 31:47
  Like we were trying to get Jeremy from Devil Wears Prada.
• 31:51
  Another golfer. No wonder you were trying to get
• 31:53
  well. I didn't know that.
• 31:54
  I think we should use Jeremy. I don't know why.
• 31:56
  Yeah, well, I didn't, I didn't, you know, I didn't.
• 31:58
  I'd I'd only just been playing golf at this point.
• 32:01
  Motherfucker, drink some. Golf a few months.
• 32:03
  Yeah, yeah, he loves it. He couldn't do it.
• 32:05
  And then we were trying to. We were like thinking about the
• 32:12
  singer of like Monster Flames because he's fucking amazing.
• 32:16
  And then we were thinking about Ryan from Miss May I.
• 32:21
  He was busy. So we messaged this guy Tim,
• 32:24
  like he comes out, he's great, beautiful kid, does not fit like
• 32:32
  too nice. You know what I mean?
• 32:34
  Like nothing. It's just, I was just like, man,
• 32:36
  this. Not stinky enough.
• 32:38
  No stank, no stank. Not a bogan.
• 32:40
  Not a bogan enough. No.
• 32:42
  And then he couldn't do the last two shows.
• 32:45
  Two or three, two, Yeah, day off.
• 32:48
  And anyway, Ryan has been like, you've got to check this guy
• 32:53
  out, Johnny from Kingdom of Giants.
• 32:56
  And so we go listen. And we're like, oh, like, OK.
• 33:00
  Johnny rolls up to the show, and I mean, by this time we've been
• 33:04
  talking the band about what we're going to do.
• 33:06
  We had a European Tour coming up and we were like, well, we're
• 33:09
  not going to take iron, so we need to find someone to do that
• 33:13
  to her. And we hadn't this at this
• 33:17
  point, we weren't like irons out of the band.
• 33:21
  We hadn't, we hadn't gotten there yet.
• 33:23
  We were like, we were there, but not like fully there because of
• 33:27
  all the implications. And it's terrifying and scary
• 33:30
  and. Did you tell him sort your shit
• 33:32
  out and you can come back? Yeah, man.
• 33:34
  But we'd, I mean, we'd, we'd done that, you know, we'd done
• 33:38
  that for years by this time. And, you know, he man, you know,
• 33:47
  I know I'm going to cop it online for this, but he had so
• 33:51
  much support. Like, he couldn't have had more
• 33:54
  support. He had support from his partner.
• 33:57
  Our manager was mostly managing him, not the band.
• 34:01
  I started playing golf. Everyone on the tour stopped
• 34:04
  drinking. Everyone tried as much as they
• 34:07
  could to try and like help him get through it.
• 34:10
  He just wasn't really interested, you know, and I
• 34:12
  guess with any addiction, if, if the person who has the problem
• 34:16
  doesn't want to stop it, it's just not going to stop.
• 34:20
  And that's been hard for me to like, sit, just sit here, you
• 34:26
  know, I'm like copper because I'm just like, man, like this
• 34:28
  guy had so much support and he's made it out like he had no
• 34:32
  support. And when I stopped drinking, I
• 34:34
  had no fucking support. Like none.
• 34:39
  Everyone kept drinking, taking drugs, like no support from
• 34:43
  management because he was still drinking.
• 34:46
  No one understood like or cared really that I was dealing with
• 34:50
  like bipolar and getting sober and like massive life crisis.
• 34:56
  The fucking, you know, the train kept rolling.
• 34:59
  And so when all this was happening, I was like kind of
• 35:02
  getting angry at the same time because I was like, I remember
• 35:05
  saying to my manager, I was like, what the fuck, man?
• 35:08
  I'm like, I had none of this. I was like, I had none of this.
• 35:12
  And we keep everything we did was based around his drinking
• 35:20
  every decision we were making. And so we sent him home.
• 35:28
  Not great, obviously. It was like the abuse started
• 35:32
  straight away. But anyway, Johnny comes out for
• 35:34
  the last two shows. He shows up with a fucking
• 35:36
  notebook with like notes in it about the songs and I'm like Oh
• 35:41
  my God, like this guy like likes doing this.
• 35:44
  It's like what the fuck? Was on the notebook.
• 35:47
  He had notes on the songs and shit.
• 35:48
  What though? It's just all the like
• 35:51
  structures with lyrics. Kind of normal.
• 35:54
  That's like professional. And like professional.
• 35:57
  Pictures to like help me identify like okay think of like
• 36:00
  water or a heart or. Think of water as.
• 36:04
  All the themes. 15 in there. So it goes.
• 36:08
  It's a lot. Ghost it's just you've open it.
• 36:11
  It's. Just like every some problem.
• 36:13
  What's the problem? Ghost?
• 36:15
  Yeah, I thought the waves stopped a long time ago in my
• 36:17
  defence. He still got playing.
• 36:19
  Yeah, we, I mean, but we wrote a whole fucking album where I was
• 36:21
  just like waves, ocean, water, river, lake.
• 36:24
  Australian, we'll let you off. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:26
  But anyway, he comes, he does that.
• 36:30
  We we were playing Let the Ocean Take Me in full and then we were
• 36:34
  having a break and then doing the the rest of the set.
• 36:38
  Fuck that. OK, so we do that.
• 36:40
  We come off first night and I was like, hey Johnny, like we go
• 36:45
  to Europe in like 3 weeks, like can you do it?
• 36:48
  And he's like, yeah, sure. And, and then in the, in the
• 36:56
  interim, we kind of decided we, we couldn't bring arm back.
• 37:05
  And like Dan sent a message to Caleb and I that was like,
• 37:09
  because we were so used to putting out, putting our foot
• 37:13
  down and then not putting our foot down.
• 37:17
  And Dan sent a text that was like, hey, if Iron shows up in
• 37:21
  Europe, I'm going to go home. I'm going to go home.
• 37:25
  I'm not doing the tour. And that was that was that.
• 37:29
  And then we didn't say anything for the longest time.
• 37:31
  So Iron knew and we kept our mouth shut because we wanted to
• 37:41
  give him grace and you know, like the honestly man, like the
• 37:48
  at the beginning, like when we when we decided to to move on
• 37:53
  without him, like there wasn't really bad blood.
• 37:56
  There was like, we understood this guy's got a big problem.
• 38:04
  He can't sort it out and tour. It's not possible.
• 38:09
  He hated touring like he hated it.
• 38:12
  You ever tell me all? We do all hate it, right?
• 38:15
  But you, you, you find the bits you love.
• 38:20
  The shot, Yeah. The shot, I mean, yeah, roundly
• 38:23
  you hate it except for the show is the best experience on Earth.
• 38:27
  Yeah, exactly right. And it just got to a point
• 38:31
  where, man, like our sound guy had a mute button for his
• 38:37
  microphone. So between songs, if he went to
• 38:41
  the mark, he would get muted because we just didn't know what
• 38:46
  he was going to say. And he was saying like, really
• 38:50
  offensive shit to be, you know, like very, very, very, very
• 38:54
  offensive shit. And it just got too much.
• 38:58
  But yeah, there was no, there was no bad blood there.
• 39:01
  We were pretty understanding. And then man, the fucking, the
• 39:06
  shit talking just didn't stop on the Internet at all.
• 39:09
  And then when, you know, he kept posting stuff like I've tried,
• 39:14
  I've begged them to tell you guys I'm not touring, but they
• 39:16
  won't do it. And we have, you know, as as
• 39:22
  your band gets bigger, you end up working with PR people.
• 39:25
  They have crisis teams at PR places.
• 39:27
  And they're like, you have to say something, yeah, because
• 39:30
  this is getting out of hand. So I, I was like, OK, everyone's
• 39:36
  going to blame me. So I'm not writing the
• 39:39
  statement. I was like, people need to hear
• 39:43
  from someone else. So Dan and Caleb write the
• 39:47
  statement. They send it to Aaron for
• 39:49
  approval. He makes a few changes, approves
• 39:53
  it, it gets posted, and then the next six months of my life were
• 40:01
  some of the worst times of my whole life, I think.
• 40:04
  What just from the back and forth?
• 40:06
  No, no back and forth with him because I'd blocked him a long
• 40:09
  time before that. But just the Internet, just
• 40:13
  strangers on the Internet are an airing parts of my life, the
• 40:18
  personal and extremely like, you know, things I'm not proud of
• 40:25
  that I did, you know, like almost a decade ago at that
• 40:29
  point. And yeah, at that point I was
• 40:33
  just like, you know what? Like, fuck you.
• 40:37
  Yeah, I was going to say you didn't.
• 40:38
  You seem angry. Is there not?
• 40:41
  Is there a part of you that worries for him?
• 40:44
  I'm worried for him. I barely know the guy.
• 40:46
  I was worried for him for a long time.
• 40:50
  I don't know. Yeah, you don't have to, no.
• 40:52
  I just don't know. I don't know.
• 40:54
  It's, I think it's, I think it's sad, but at the same time it's
• 40:59
  like it's going on two years and I am still getting comments from
• 41:03
  people. What are the comments?
• 41:05
  Like calling me a narcissist and telling me like, basically the
• 41:11
  inverse of what happened. And people have have roundly
• 41:17
  decided that I kicked him out of the band, which is not how it
• 41:23
  works, I'm afraid. Generally speaking, when one
• 41:26
  person gets kicked out of a band, it's the rest of the band
• 41:29
  that kicks him out or her out or the band breaks up.
• 41:33
  And that's where we're at. And we were like, well, we want
• 41:35
  to keep going. And so the whole thing was we
• 41:40
  were like way more, way more like interested in trying to
• 41:50
  keep it going and accepting whatever happened.
• 41:54
  So we, we kind of had a chat where we were like, Yep, it
• 41:57
  might not work, but let's try because if we don't try, we'll
• 42:01
  kick ourselves because this, you know, we've been so fortunate,
• 42:06
  man. Like we've, we've gone up, we've
• 42:09
  gone down, we've gone back up. We were like, we've gone back
• 42:14
  down and yeah, it is the way, right?
• 42:17
  But but a lot of bands don't get the chance to go back up.
• 42:20
  And we were, you know, we had planned everything around last
• 42:27
  year and this year, like everything.
• 42:29
  And we were like, well, let's just stick to it and see how it
• 42:31
  goes. And it's going pretty good.
• 42:35
  Going good? Well what?
• 42:36
  Were you banned before this? Kingdom of Giants.
• 42:38
  Kingdom of Giants, were you still in the band when this
• 42:41
  happened? Are you still in the band?
• 42:43
  I'm not in the band anymore as of.
• 42:47
  As of. Last December I would.
• 42:49
  Say is that as of because of this?
• 42:51
  Yeah, things just were coming to a head, you know where they're
• 42:55
  just like, we've got plans and you've got other plans going on
• 42:58
  over here. And so it was kind of this, it's
• 43:01
  in my court decision and I was just like, you know, I don't
• 43:04
  want to hold them back from, you know, achieving their goals, but
• 43:07
  this like aligns with the goals that I'm, you know, after and
• 43:13
  with things just working so well with this group.
• 43:15
  And I was, it was really kind of a no brainer.
• 43:18
  Was it mutual? No.
• 43:19
  Beef. I they're just.
• 43:22
  That's no. That's no.
• 43:26
  That's loaded. That's what I'm here for.
• 43:28
  I'm here for the loaded questions.
• 43:30
  No B from you. Yeah, nothing.
• 43:32
  No bad B from my end. I mean, yeah.
• 43:34
  Because you jumped shit to the fucking massive band.
• 43:37
  He was. He was like doing back-to-back
• 43:40
  touring, though. Singing that's fucking tough
• 43:43
  like Real. Is the other band like real life
• 43:46
  singing as well? Yeah, yeah.
• 43:48
  It's, I mean, it's just about as much singing.
• 43:50
  As you guys do you're playing bass in he is full, full
• 43:54
  replacement slide in were you what were you doing just singing
• 43:59
  and. Bass and singing.
• 44:02
  Boom, Yeah. Oh, boom.
• 44:04
  Yes. Take that.
• 44:05
  Yeah, yeah. How old are you?
• 44:07
  35. Slots right in.
• 44:10
  He's young, though. Yeah, he's he's how?
• 44:13
  Old is everyone else. How old are you?
• 44:15
  30, I'm 44. Started with hit three there I.
• 44:18
  Was like, no, no, I was talking absolutely.
• 44:20
  Not, not. I was about I was about to lose
• 44:22
  everyone's age. Johnny, Johnny, Dan and Aaron
• 44:25
  were all the same the same age almost almost in the same month.
• 44:31
  So I'm pretty sure I don't know if Joe's in June, but he's like
• 44:34
  near June but Dan and aren't both in June and they are 39 so
• 44:39
  turning 40. So he's like in the right age
• 44:43
  bracket. Still a millennial.
• 44:45
  Yeah, and I, I was Gen. X, and then I got booted into
• 44:49
  the millennial camp. You're Gen.
• 44:51
  X. No, no.
• 44:53
  Let me get a Google on those. This happens every fucking
• 44:56
  episode or no by now. Let me get a Google on those
• 44:58
  80s. 191981. What's that's the cost or that's
• 45:03
  when you were born? That's when I was born.
• 45:05
  And so while I was growing up, they were like, generate your
• 45:08
  generation X. And then at some point they're
• 45:10
  like, Nah, actually not. You're a millennial.
• 45:14
  I think this is stolen valor. Now they call me an elder
• 45:16
  millennial. That's even worse than how?
• 45:19
  Real. It's real bad and I'm.
• 45:22
  Pose that dog, Papa. Oh, I've never done that.
• 45:26
  Papa. Oh, let's take the doggos out.
• 45:28
  Oh, never done that either. I renounce my I.
• 45:32
  I actually think I'm going to claim Gen. alpha.
• 45:37
  OK, the fucking brain roll that I talk.
• 45:39
  All right, I'm like, now that sounds like a.
• 45:41
  Fucking deadlift thing to say, Jen Rogan.
• 45:43
  How do you do, fellow kids? Millennials is 1981 to 1996 you?
• 45:48
  Are on the cusp. Yeah, when's your birthday?
• 45:51
  December 24th. Oh yeah, OK, you're if it was
• 45:54
  December 24th, 1980, imagine that you're just a month, a mere
• 45:59
  month, mere days away from a generation gap.
• 46:02
  Well, I'm one year away. You are now, but in my head, in
• 46:07
  my head you weren't. What are the other ones?
• 46:10
  Just so I know. Generation Z is 1997 to 2012.
• 46:16
  Generation Alpha is 2013 to mid twenty 20s.
• 46:20
  Right, so my SO Bowie's generation alpha.
• 46:23
  How? How old's Bowie?
• 46:24
  He's 10. How's his brain rot?
• 46:27
  What's his vocab? He's like, he's oh, wow, You
• 46:30
  know what? Like I said something recent,
• 46:32
  just before I left home, I said something about an aura.
• 46:37
  I said something about an aura. He does that.
• 46:39
  I said something about an aura. And he goes, Uncle Craig has an
• 46:42
  aura. And I was like, what are you
• 46:45
  talking about? And then he's.
• 46:47
  What was his explanation of Aura?
• 46:49
  Well, he doesn't know he's 10, but he's definitely referencing
• 46:51
  the goddamn Internet. Yeah, but he what else?
• 46:55
  What's happened? We we did something and some
• 46:59
  adults had 6-7 and he goes, that's over.
• 47:03
  I did. I did that to my nephew, same
• 47:07
  thing. And he rolled his eyes and I was
• 47:09
  like, wow, that's fucking. That's how you know.
• 47:11
  Yeah. I thought this was like cutting
• 47:14
  edge. Yep.
• 47:15
  No, it's already. Gone.
• 47:16
  It's already gone. It moves so fast.
• 47:19
  Yeah, but he's excellent. He's the best kid.
• 47:21
  I yeah. And I don't mean this as like to
• 47:24
  be breed, but you struck me as like a you strike me as a no TV,
• 47:28
  no iPad, you will go surfing and it's maybe golf and that's it.
• 47:34
  No, I'm no shoes. No shoes on the kids.
• 47:38
  Like no no, no, no sand people. No, I'm kind of like that sounds
• 47:41
  racist than me now. I'm kind of like everything in
• 47:44
  Within Reason, I think. I grew up with nothing and I
• 47:50
  grew up with heavy restrictions on what I did.
• 47:54
  And then I and then, like, it was so weird because then I
• 48:00
  guess my brother and sister were born to a different dad.
• 48:03
  And then I got, I got like jettisoned.
• 48:08
  Yeah. It was like left to my own
• 48:10
  devices with like a computer. And I was just like, what the
• 48:13
  fuck? And.
• 48:13
  Ron.com immediately. No, I mean, I'm too old for
• 48:17
  that, That that happened when we were first starting touring.
• 48:20
  I remember actually. Yeah, same as like putrid sex
• 48:23
  object like you know. You know that one?
• 48:25
  Yeah, I know. I know one of them.
• 48:26
  I haven't thought about that one for a while.
• 48:28
  Yeah, that one. You don't know that one.
• 48:29
  No, I just. Know you should best Gore.
• 48:31
  Yeah. Yeah, you should all grish.
• 48:34
  I putrid sex object. I haven't.
• 48:37
  I've talked about these. I've talked about rotten,
• 48:39
  augurish, all those classic, classic fucking videos.
• 48:42
  I haven't remembered that one. No one's brought that one up.
• 48:44
  Well, we were on tour not long after the Red Shore in Australia
• 48:51
  had this horrific accident and a couple of them died and Roman
• 48:58
  the guitarist, and he was like recording bands already back.
• 49:01
  Then I know Roman. Yeah, you know Roman, I told.
• 49:03
  With the red shore in just after that in UK and Europe.
• 49:08
  Yeah, So, you know, he left the planet there for a while and we
• 49:13
  went, we went to his fucking house like in Melbourne.
• 49:17
  And we arrived, I think we arrived at like 1:00 or 2:00 AM
• 49:21
  and, you know, we're wasted, been in the van drinking for 10
• 49:26
  hours or something. And we get there and we're all
• 49:30
  like, you know, there's like 12 people crammed in one room and
• 49:34
  he's like, everyone's watching this and he puts putrid sex
• 49:37
  object. Down with me.
• 49:39
  And I was just like what the fuck?
• 49:42
  I still do that. So that's like that's, that's
• 49:45
  like a memory I'll hold forever, which is fucked because it's
• 49:47
  just like, I just like the scene going up the stairs with, yeah.
• 49:51
  It's I can't remember it. I remember it being bad but.
• 49:54
  It's real bad he like fucks the head of a horse.
• 49:57
  That's what I remember, but the horse is dead.
• 49:59
  Yeah, it's so it's fine. It's a It's a the chopped off
• 50:02
  head of a horse, also skinned. Yeah, it's, it's flooding back.
• 50:06
  Now, yeah, it's completely skinned.
• 50:08
  From butchers. I think you can get away with
• 50:10
  that. It's not right, but I think it's
• 50:12
  legal. I'm not an expert, we have hit
• 50:16
  none of my notes. Just been fucking fucking
• 50:20
  fucking going for it. You said you had a notepad.
• 50:23
  Come come with this notepad. I'm correct hand hand drawn.
• 50:28
  Yeah, just like a pen or maybe a pencil so I could erase, you
• 50:34
  know, when I fuck things up. But yeah, just hand hand drawn
• 50:37
  like 17 songs I think. So you write, it's, you're
• 50:41
  writing the structure, Yeah. And but you're writing lines in
• 50:45
  there as well. How long did you have to learn
• 50:48
  17 songs I. Think it was just under like 7
• 50:52
  days or something like that. 17 songs of singing and bass.
• 50:56
  That's two instruments in a in a week.
• 51:00
  No wonder he had a fucking notepad.
• 51:02
  Yeah, Bass, I didn't have to learn.
• 51:05
  It was 2 shows and they were like we're we're putting you on
• 51:07
  a track. Just saying.
• 51:08
  And I was like. Yeah, but did you hold the bass?
• 51:11
  Yeah. Oh yeah.
• 51:12
  Did you slap the bass? No one clocked it that you were.
• 51:17
  I mean, I basically just stuck to the same like 4 chords, you
• 51:20
  know, open 810 five. Single person notice.
• 51:25
  Huge song in the same. That is fucking insane.
• 51:28
  Like I mean of in I'm a big fan in times like this, emergencies
• 51:35
  like of tracks, they're fucking so good to get you out of, you
• 51:39
  know, having to replace a whole fucking member in seven days.
• 51:42
  But the fact no one noticed makes me a little bit sick.
• 51:45
  I think, I think a few people said some shit, but.
• 51:49
  It wasn't the fucking news. That no, it wasn't the news, but
• 51:52
  it was. When I said that there's a
• 51:53
  couple of drummers that put their kick drums on track, there
• 51:56
  was a fucking websites making news articles about it.
• 51:58
  I got so much shit he's making up.
• 52:00
  He's just jealous. Nope, I watched the fucking
• 52:03
  drummer play and listen to the fucking kicks.
• 52:05
  I love that. I love that about the Internet.
• 52:08
  It's so good, isn't? It yeah, but The thing is, I
• 52:11
  feel like you still care. Me.
• 52:13
  Yeah, even even after all this, they come to you, you rightfully
• 52:17
  said. When some of the worst weeks of
• 52:19
  your life. Yes, months.
• 52:21
  Months, sorry, mitigating it slightly, but like you just
• 52:26
  cannot care if I say that after I've been through it as well.
• 52:31
  But once you come out the other end now I'm like, I don't give a
• 52:33
  fuck. Yeah, shut the fuck.
• 52:34
  Up. I haven't come out the other end
• 52:36
  yet. That's the thing.
• 52:37
  Once you do, it's amazing, Yeah, but you have to come out the
• 52:39
  other end. You do.
• 52:40
  And the way by come out the other end, I mean, delete
• 52:43
  Twitter, which you've already done, Yes.
• 52:46
  And then years ago, Never ever, ever search for yourself.
• 52:50
  And then you might. I've never done that.
• 52:53
  It's fine, yeah, just let him fucking.
• 52:55
  I've never, I've never done that, I don't think.
• 52:57
  Never done it. No, I used it all the.
• 53:00
  Time. Did you like a name?
• 53:01
  Like a name search. Yeah, but you know what it was
• 53:03
  actually it was, it started from.
• 53:05
  I wanted to see who was playing my symbol, so I put it in to
• 53:09
  like Reddit and put it into Reddit and it would come up with
• 53:12
  like. Like you had a symbol.
• 53:14
  I have like a like. A Craig.
• 53:16
  Yeah, OK. I was like, wait, wait a second.
• 53:18
  I was like, wait, someone playing your symbol?
• 53:20
  Like, did you? No no, like someone stole your
• 53:23
  symbol to bring this full like name.
• 53:26
  Bring this full circle. Actually, you should know that
• 53:28
  you know the sound of that symbol because Joe plays one.
• 53:30
  But I would go on Reddit and I would look for people playing my
• 53:34
  symbol. And then I thought I would reply
• 53:37
  to these people because it's quite nice.
• 53:39
  No, that's fine. But then I started seeing bad
• 53:42
  stuff. Not a lot, but like enough for
• 53:44
  me. But I'm just going to stop doing
• 53:47
  this. Going to going to stop
• 53:49
  searching. My yeah, well my my problem is
• 53:53
  that if you show me 1000 comments and 999 of them are
• 53:59
  good, I'm only going to see the one bad one.
• 54:02
  Yeah, it's awful. Yeah.
• 54:04
  And then I'm going to fixate on it.
• 54:06
  Yeah, in here. Like, not on my screen, like my
• 54:08
  whole day. I'll just be thinking about that
• 54:10
  comment. Yeah, we're the same.
• 54:12
  We're the same. Yeah, it's great, as long as you
• 54:13
  don't look at it and you can pretend you don't care like I
• 54:16
  just did. Yeah, well, you know what I like
• 54:19
  don't look at stuff on purpose. And then I'll just get a text
• 54:23
  message from someone like look at this shit.
• 54:25
  And I'm like, I'm like brother. That is the.
• 54:28
  Work. Leave me alone.
• 54:29
  Someone was speaking to recently about something like that and
• 54:34
  they kept reiterating don't send me anything, don't send me
• 54:38
  anything. So I'm not going to send you
• 54:39
  anything because I know what it feels like, but that means and
• 54:42
  from being through it, what are these people doing when they
• 54:45
  send send the the comment that the person is about to the
• 54:51
  person? Like, hey, look what this person
• 54:53
  said about you. Ha ha, isn't that stupid?
• 54:54
  It's like, no, you've just made me fucking read it.
• 54:57
  Yeah, yeah. It's not stupid, it's hurtful.
• 54:59
  Yeah, it's horrible. Yeah, I'm hurt.
• 55:01
  If you've seen it, how did you see it?
• 55:02
  How many other fucking people seen it anyway?
• 55:04
  Yeah, How was the reaction? Good on my end.
• 55:07
  I mean, I've seen a few comments here and there, you know, just
• 55:10
  like trying to find things to kind of pick apart, but.
• 55:13
  On the album you've absolutely fucking nailed it, so I can't
• 55:16
  imagine what people are digging for to have something bad to
• 55:20
  say, but I know who they are. The one that sticks out in my
• 55:23
  mind, so random like from the All That I Remember music video,
• 55:28
  somebody who's commenting on the shirt that I wore and they were
• 55:31
  like this guy works at the gas station or something.
• 55:34
  It was like so weird because it was like a Dickies work shirt.
• 55:37
  Like over shirt thing. I mean, that's how you know
• 55:39
  you're doing a good job though. It's like they can only go for
• 55:42
  the. Shirt.
• 55:42
  It's not the vocals, it's not the bass, it's nothing.
• 55:45
  It's just like this person's got a shitty shirt.
• 55:48
  I guess the second thing would be people are just like it
• 55:50
  sounds generic. Generic is like the the most
• 55:53
  word. Like I but I mean like they toss
• 55:56
  around no offense, man. We play metal core.
• 55:58
  Yeah, you're you're playing metal core.
• 56:00
  Like, yeah, I don't know. What people think they want
• 56:04
  different and then you give them different.
• 56:07
  I've learned that people just people shouldn't think for
• 56:09
  themselves. No, but people particularly in
• 56:12
  metal core, particularly in metal core, Oh my God, there was
• 56:14
  a thing recently, but like just people think they want different
• 56:17
  and then you give them different and they go, well, this sucks.
• 56:19
  And then you give them what they said they didn't want and they
• 56:23
  go, this is awesome. Man, I was just thinking like
• 56:26
  turn style couldn't have come from metal core.
• 56:29
  No, they came from hardcore and everyone in the hardcore went,
• 56:32
  Yep, still hardcore. Yeah, it's like, not.
• 56:36
  Yeah, that. It is because they're doing
• 56:38
  whatever they want. And that's part of the hardcore
• 56:40
  thing is just like do what you want.
• 56:43
  You're kind of under this. Instead of being under this like
• 56:47
  tiny little umbrella, you're under a massive umbrella where
• 56:50
  everyone's just like, Yep, you're going to play 2 step,
• 56:53
  love it. That's hardcore.
• 56:54
  You're going to play, you know, like youth crew hardcore, still
• 56:58
  hardcore. You're going to sing still
• 57:00
  hardcore, Andrew Dust hardcore. Because there's a mentality in
• 57:04
  hardcore, but medcore doesn't really have one.
• 57:06
  No, they have it's, it's medical is a lot more precious.
• 57:12
  Basically, I think there needs to be two different fucking
• 57:14
  genres of metal core 100% because that's the whole big
• 57:17
  argument right now. It's like this is not real metal
• 57:20
  core really about like bands. This is 1 not on the Internet.
• 57:25
  Yeah, no. So I don't know if you guys
• 57:27
  would fit into it, but like what?
• 57:31
  Yeah, you would. What metal core has become
• 57:36
  versus what it was when it came out.
• 57:39
  Oh dear. So people want what it was
• 57:44
  before. Some people, but some people.
• 57:46
  Some. People Yeah, exactly.
• 57:47
  This is the thing that people I want real drum.
• 57:49
  I want real raw drums like a live or dress breathing kill.
• 57:52
  Switch all samples. They just.
• 57:55
  It wasn't a time when the samples could sound that good.
• 57:59
  This is also something people don't know is you go into the
• 58:02
  studio, you play the guitar and it comes out of, you know, like
• 58:09
  a speaker, a cabinet. They know that, but.
• 58:12
  No, no, no. But they they don't know that
• 58:14
  that then gets goes into a computer and then if they go,
• 58:18
  no, I don't like that head unit. To change it, they just change
• 58:21
  it reamping. They reamp the goddamn guitar I.
• 58:24
  Think most people know that? But why don't?
• 58:26
  Why do they? Why are they like this about?
• 58:29
  No, I don't know and I don't know and I don't want to ever
• 58:32
  dig on people for it. But the thing that sticks in my
• 58:34
  mind about like not metal cord just needs to be a different
• 58:37
  genre and people don't know what they want because that
• 58:39
  boundaries mixed thing. Are you that offline that you
• 58:42
  don't know what that was? Well, I, I mean, I saw a picture
• 58:45
  of it, you know, like I'm, I go on there to look at, you know,
• 58:49
  I've got a very curated Instagram.
• 58:52
  Like I have a list of words that aren't allowed to show up.
• 58:56
  It's very, very long and I make sure I like actually take the
• 59:04
  time to click. Not interested.
• 59:05
  Don't show me this, all this kind of shit.
• 59:07
  So I I see Muy Thai and like surfing and golf, that's kind of
• 59:12
  it, but I follow. Boobies.
• 59:14
  But I follow a few of the boundaries.
• 59:17
  Guys. Yeah, nice dudes.
• 59:19
  Sweat the band hard. Great band.
• 59:21
  Great band and I so I saw it and like I'd heard the mix already
• 59:27
  and I was like what the fuck is the problem?
• 59:30
  So I haven't really read much. I haven't read the comments, but
• 59:32
  I can imagine that they're annoying.
• 59:34
  I'm I'm confused about the whole thing.
• 59:37
  Yeah, because they put a mix out and I don't know these guys, but
• 59:40
  I do like the band and I know a lot of people that know them.
• 59:42
  They put a mix out. People were unhappy about the
• 59:47
  mix. I wouldn't say overwhelmingly
• 59:50
  unhappy. The sort of people that would
• 59:52
  leave you a comment about your shirt, unhappy with the mix and
• 59:56
  then they change the mix because of this.
• 1:00:00
  Now I'm in this weird place where I don't know how I feel
• 1:00:04
  about this because my knee jerk reaction was.
• 1:00:08
  Why the fuck would you put your R in someone else's hands?
• 1:00:13
  They they're young and they're having a a big moment and it's
• 1:00:17
  scary. It's.
• 1:00:19
  Scary is definitely a good point because because then the other,
• 1:00:23
  the other side of the coin is like fan service.
• 1:00:27
  But then where do you draw the line?
• 1:00:28
  I this isn't a question, this is.
• 1:00:30
  Yeah, yeah, because. Honestly, I couldn't sleep the
• 1:00:33
  night it happened. Yeah, I think my brain.
• 1:00:35
  Went this is Franz Ferdinand in World War One.
• 1:00:38
  Yeah, you are going to start World War Three of medical.
• 1:00:42
  Yes, I think they are a young band.
• 1:00:46
  They've got one prior super successful release.
• 1:00:50
  They got a lot of momentum. And it must be terrifying to
• 1:00:56
  have your first moment where the Internet turns against you.
• 1:01:01
  And I think that's a lot of pressure.
• 1:01:02
  And I think that's another thing, like being older, you
• 1:01:05
  know, like, yeah, the comments get to me, but I can switch off.
• 1:01:10
  I haven't grown up. Like I was talking to a friend
• 1:01:13
  the other day and I was like, I feel lucky to have grown up
• 1:01:18
  without this access to me being something that I experienced.
• 1:01:22
  Yeah. So it's it's alien to me.
• 1:01:25
  So I can switch it off and I don't miss anything.
• 1:01:28
  Whereas, you know, the younger bands are fully engaged.
• 1:01:31
  And I think, you know, if I were younger and experienced Internet
• 1:01:41
  backlash, it would seem more important than it is.
• 1:01:45
  It's going to happen for everything.
• 1:01:47
  Yeah, yeah. But it's like a it's growing
• 1:01:49
  pains. I would love to get them on and
• 1:01:52
  to just ask them. All I'd want to do is ask them.
• 1:01:55
  Were you guys unsure about this mix that you put out and then
• 1:02:00
  the backlash made you think maybe we should go with mix too?
• 1:02:07
  Like that's what I want to know. That would make me come to terms
• 1:02:10
  with it a little bit more. My worry is that now every
• 1:02:12
  motherfucker is going to have an opinion of a mix, which they
• 1:02:15
  already fucking do. And I don't want it to then be
• 1:02:18
  like when. You always think that's funny.
• 1:02:20
  The mix things always funny to me because I'm like, listen,
• 1:02:27
  people in bands put their whole fiber into creating these
• 1:02:33
  things, whether you like it or not.
• 1:02:36
  And then we spend hours and hours and hours and hours and
• 1:02:39
  hours and hours listening to the same goddamn song to the point
• 1:02:42
  that we're not hearing the song anymore.
• 1:02:45
  We're hearing like bits that we think need to go up or down or
• 1:02:49
  whatever. I'll put that to the back.
• 1:02:50
  I'll make that, make that wider. I'll make that pan.
• 1:02:54
  And it's like by the time people hear the mix, we've put
• 1:03:00
  everything we have into it and they're just like, don't like
• 1:03:03
  it. Yeah, that's why I'm saying I
• 1:03:06
  don't know, I've got, I don't want to waste the whole podcast
• 1:03:08
  on this, but I'm like, part of me is like this set such a bad
• 1:03:11
  precedent for people being, well, boundaries.
• 1:03:13
  Change their mix like it's going to, in an ideal world,
• 1:03:17
  everyone's going to have, OK, here's the album and here's the
• 1:03:20
  stems. Make your own mix.
• 1:03:22
  In fact, that's a good idea, actually.
• 1:03:23
  They're already doing. That I'm doing that, Who's doing
• 1:03:25
  that? Who's doing that?
• 1:03:26
  Jay-Z doing that with title. You get the stems.
• 1:03:29
  You can pay for access to get the stems.
• 1:03:31
  I'm fucking in. You can.
• 1:03:33
  It's don't like. The mix.
• 1:03:34
  Do it your fucking self. Oh, it's difficult, isn't it?
• 1:03:37
  It's like a so it's not quite what it's not, it's not quite
• 1:03:40
  what you're talking about, but it's for DJ's to remix songs
• 1:03:44
  like with ease. Oh no, I think I've just given.
• 1:03:47
  It's a mixed stems. Here's my plot twist.
• 1:03:51
  Ready for this fucking absolute plot twist of the conversation.
• 1:03:57
  The new mixed boundaries put up is better.
• 1:04:03
  And this is where I struggle. This is where I struggle with it
• 1:04:06
  because it is a better fucking mix.
• 1:04:08
  But I'm like, I feel like if it was me, yeah, I'd have just been
• 1:04:12
  like, no, you get what you get. Yeah, well, I mean, I don't want
• 1:04:15
  to get anyone in trouble, so I'm not going to name names, but I
• 1:04:18
  haven't listened to it on streaming services.
• 1:04:21
  I've only listened through Dropbox.
• 1:04:25
  Yeah. So I don't know, right?
• 1:04:27
  So you've heard the original 1? Anyway, I don't want to get
• 1:04:29
  caught up on that. We got on the generic
• 1:04:31
  conversation went into this. This is all because of the work
• 1:04:34
  shirt. This is all because of the
• 1:04:35
  workshop and being called generic.
• 1:04:37
  Whoever left that comment, that's all your fault if you're
• 1:04:40
  watching this even. The word comment pissing me off
• 1:04:42
  right now. I can really see why the fucking
• 1:04:45
  mask bands do it. Imagine how freeing that must
• 1:04:49
  be. Until it's not.
• 1:04:50
  Is it not? Didn't didn't homeboy from sleep
• 1:04:52
  token get? Didn't they all get fully?
• 1:04:55
  You still get the anonymity though.
• 1:04:58
  Like I don't think anyone really is bothering them because their
• 1:05:03
  whole social media presence is anonymous.
• 1:05:06
  They're probably all offline on burners, but that must be so
• 1:05:10
  freeing to just. Go Daft Punk did it the best.
• 1:05:13
  Yeah. Forever.
• 1:05:15
  You can just bust out, bust out music and then be like, peace.
• 1:05:19
  I'm going to go do things. Yeah.
• 1:05:21
  And then glorious. Although now it's it's old hat,
• 1:05:24
  wearing a mask. You ever think about getting him
• 1:05:26
  to wear a mask? No, I've always wanted to wear
• 1:05:28
  this because I'm not very confident as a person.
• 1:05:30
  I've always wanted to wear this, like I always joked about it.
• 1:05:33
  A helmet, like a Daft Punk helmet, right?
• 1:05:36
  With a, with like a, what's it called?
• 1:05:40
  Like a plague. Plague Dr. Plague Dr. Knows yes,
• 1:05:45
  with the microphone stuck in there.
• 1:05:47
  But that would sound good. Don't cut the mic, don't I?
• 1:05:49
  Can't help it would sound so bad.
• 1:05:51
  Then I just get to run around like a real idea.
• 1:05:55
  No, it's one I've pitched since like 2005.
• 1:05:58
  Pitching it as a joke or if everyone.
• 1:06:00
  Pitching it pitching it as a joke.
• 1:06:01
  But if they. If they said yes, you.
• 1:06:04
  Were done. Keep trying maybe.
• 1:06:05
  Yeah, yeah. It's too late, you can't do
• 1:06:06
  that, and the mask gimmick is done now.
• 1:06:08
  Yeah, yeah. It's never done.
• 1:06:10
  It's never, ever done. It's done for right now, maybe.
• 1:06:14
  I think every 10 years a new mask ban comes down.
• 1:06:17
  But everyone thought it was kind of done with sleep token and
• 1:06:19
  then president came in. And that's like sleep token too
• 1:06:22
  though. Everyone thought it was done
• 1:06:24
  with ghost and then sleep token. Yeah, that's 10 years.
• 1:06:27
  I did. I did the math.
• 1:06:28
  That's about 10 years there. And then like.
• 1:06:32
  Slipknot. 10 more than 10 years before ghost but but close.
• 1:06:37
  Here's the thing. So like you mentioned,
• 1:06:38
  President, I feel like they are getting pretty cooked for having
• 1:06:42
  the masks. Really.
• 1:06:43
  I'm sorry. It's this is wearing a mask.
• 1:06:46
  Is 6-7 OK? Like, right now there's a lot of
• 1:06:50
  kids that still like it. They're buying the emote on
• 1:06:53
  Fortnite, right? Emote.
• 1:06:55
  Yeah, Yeah. And there's a lot of bands.
• 1:06:58
  Well, we'll just have one member wear a mask.
• 1:07:00
  Who? Fucking.
• 1:07:04
  Cares again. I don't know where I stand on
• 1:07:06
  anything anymore. I think it sucks, but I'd do it.
• 1:07:12
  I'm not going to do it. Look.
• 1:07:13
  Some things that suck are still fun I.
• 1:07:16
  Bet it would be really fun. My main problem with that?
• 1:07:19
  This is my fucking soapbox that I'm so sorry.
• 1:07:21
  We're going to talk about the album in a minute.
• 1:07:23
  Not enough evil bands wearing masks.
• 1:07:26
  They wear face paint. They do, but like I need some
• 1:07:28
  eat like sleep token massively successful.
• 1:07:33
  You could do with evil pop. I could do with them being a
• 1:07:35
  little bit more evil. They're evil, Pop.
• 1:07:37
  They need like 1. They seem like really nice
• 1:07:40
  people. They are really nice people.
• 1:07:42
  Yeah, see how you going to do it?
• 1:07:44
  Get a guy in that is a murderer. OK.
• 1:07:49
  All right. Now we're going to.
• 1:07:50
  Add a little bit of lore in there.
• 1:07:52
  Mayhem. Sketchy, just one sketchy guy.
• 1:07:55
  OK, I was talking on the last podcast about I wanted to make
• 1:07:58
  like a woke black metal band where you where you just get
• 1:08:02
  like you're like, it's not enough Black metal has evil
• 1:08:05
  anymore because it was really quite evil.
• 1:08:08
  It was properly evil. Properly evil.
• 1:08:10
  And I was thinking, how could you mark it evil these days
• 1:08:13
  because evil is out. But if you got like, let's say
• 1:08:18
  Luigi and you popped him in a black metal band, I think the
• 1:08:23
  public would take it do. You just call it Luigi, just
• 1:08:26
  like bosom kind of thing. He writes himself.
• 1:08:29
  Price yourself. I think the public has a.
• 1:08:31
  Logo right there. Directly down the camera.
• 1:08:34
  I am not condoning or like I'm just simply stating I think the
• 1:08:39
  public would be OK with that and that's society's fault, not
• 1:08:44
  mine. What would you call it?
• 1:08:45
  Don't I haven't got that far you.
• 1:08:47
  Could call it bloke. Bloke, yeah.
• 1:08:52
  For Black Metal Work Bloke, yeah, I got it, I got.
• 1:08:55
  It let's fucking go in a small logo gate because I I knew this
• 1:08:59
  was going to come on. I knew this was going to come
• 1:09:01
  on. This is excellent.
• 1:09:02
  We're talking about a tour that was 2017 or 2018.
• 1:09:07
  I can't remember. One of those years with sensors
• 1:09:09
  fail was a Co headliner and we were, you know, picking supports
• 1:09:16
  and we'd found Belmont who are opening and this band Bad Omens
• 1:09:23
  got submitted. Well, like cool.
• 1:09:26
  Well, it's funny to say now, right, I'm going to get there.
• 1:09:30
  I'm getting I haven't rehearsed it, but I've thought about it
• 1:09:34
  because it just it got things got worse for me when I found
• 1:09:37
  the picture of the poster, let's put it that way.
• 1:09:40
  I remember it being bad, but we were, we were going back and
• 1:09:44
  forth with their manager when the poster was being done and
• 1:09:47
  the the logo was a sticking point.
• 1:09:50
  And you got to understand, like growing up in Australia,
• 1:09:56
  everyone is an asshole. Everyone's really mean.
• 1:10:00
  People are mean when they like you.
• 1:10:02
  People are meaner when they don't like you.
• 1:10:05
  People make fun of you in like a light hearted way.
• 1:10:10
  Take the piss about everything, right.
• 1:10:11
  So we've, we think it's funny that this is happening, but
• 1:10:14
  we're like going back and forth. We announced the tour, and the
• 1:10:18
  day we announced they dropped off the tour, and if it had to
• 1:10:23
  happen a day earlier, none of this ever would have happened.
• 1:10:26
  But because of this, we, being a bunch of fucking idiots with
• 1:10:30
  Twitter, decided we would tell the world we thought it was
• 1:10:34
  funny, which we did think we thought it was very funny.
• 1:10:37
  You haven't explained. What it is it is it's Bad Omens
• 1:10:41
  logo on the poster was really small, right?
• 1:10:44
  And really small. Oh, I remember.
• 1:10:47
  I remembered it being small and then the other day when I looked
• 1:10:51
  it up, I was seriously like the with the are we the baddies?
• 1:10:54
  And I was like, I'm the baddie. Just sum it up, you announced a
• 1:10:58
  tour. Is there any conversations about
• 1:11:00
  their logo being small before this?
• 1:11:03
  There there were, right. But the final thing got got kind
• 1:11:05
  of approved. Like, yeah, cool, go ahead.
• 1:11:08
  You announced and they cancelled.
• 1:11:09
  We announced they cancelled. Unrelated as far as I know now.
• 1:11:15
  OK. I think they went and worked on
• 1:11:17
  the next album, which ended up. They're so big.
• 1:11:22
  Yeah. They're like, second only to
• 1:11:23
  bring me. Yeah.
• 1:11:25
  And they're fucking huge. The thing that actually prompted
• 1:11:27
  me looking up the poster was not coming here.
• 1:11:31
  It was the. Some kids started posting on
• 1:11:33
  Instagram, like, I can't believe what you've done.
• 1:11:35
  Too bad. And it's like Noah's statements
• 1:11:38
  made me not want to listen to you ever again.
• 1:11:41
  And I'm like, what is happening? I'm like these guys.
• 1:11:45
  I I wrote back because I never. Wrote So what happened?
• 1:11:48
  Explain. Explain what happened like.
• 1:11:50
  Well, we went on, we went on Twitter and we we were laughing
• 1:11:54
  about the logo because we thought it was funny, because
• 1:11:57
  we've been on posters before where you could barely read our
• 1:11:59
  name, right. And we thought, well, you can
• 1:12:01
  read their name. Like, we don't really understand
• 1:12:03
  the problem. I've seen their band name on the
• 1:12:05
  poster now, eight years later with fresh eyes, and it's not
• 1:12:09
  good. It's insane.
• 1:12:10
  It's bad. So I'm confused at the timeline
• 1:12:12
  you announced at all They dropped off the tour?
• 1:12:14
  Yes, they make a statement about the logo.
• 1:12:16
  No, no, no, no. Where did the logo we started.
• 1:12:19
  You started it? Yeah, we started it.
• 1:12:22
  Did he say? Did Noah say something back?
• 1:12:25
  He said something back. Because I remember it being they
• 1:12:27
  dropped off because of the logo being small, that's why.
• 1:12:31
  That's because we said that, because we we thought that we
• 1:12:34
  thought that in our defence. It's not much of a defence.
• 1:12:38
  Oh, OK. Yeah, you came out and we're
• 1:12:40
  like they've dropped off the tour because they're like bad.
• 1:12:42
  Omens aren't coming because their logo is too small, right?
• 1:12:43
  Which we thought was fucking hilarious, right?
• 1:12:46
  And we're just taking the piss. We don't care.
• 1:12:49
  The Internet. The Internet went fucking the.
• 1:12:51
  Internet went crazy, Yeah. And now I'm like, looking at it,
• 1:12:54
  I'm like, yeah. I saw all about them the other
• 1:12:57
  week and I wanted to clarity on their side before we did this.
• 1:13:01
  Yes. And they they did have to
• 1:13:03
  cancel, I think, to work on the record.
• 1:13:05
  They did. Yeah, I know.
• 1:13:05
  And they I only learned this like.
• 1:13:07
  Yeah, they rolled. With it, they did the best
• 1:13:11
  T-shirt. And they made a tiny AT shirt
• 1:13:14
  with a tiny logo like. This big?
• 1:13:16
  Yeah. You know what, I think they
• 1:13:17
  might have even been able to pull that from the the PSD of.
• 1:13:20
  But I but OK, so I have AI have a question for you and this is
• 1:13:25
  this is possibly friendship ending.
• 1:13:29
  OK, I've got to think about how how the.
• 1:13:32
  Dresses up. OK, let's go.
• 1:13:34
  You nearly did it again when the toy you're about to start with,
• 1:13:43
  so you don't know. This is what I thought happened.
• 1:13:45
  This is the OK. He's complete be perplexed in
• 1:13:49
  front of that camera. OK, I go to the gym.
• 1:13:53
  He's going to be so fucking angry.
• 1:13:55
  I go to the gym with Austin from Orthodox.
• 1:13:58
  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, no. So what what happens now is
• 1:14:02
  there's a system, yeah. There's a system to make sure
• 1:14:04
  this never, ever happens again. And the system now is, is this
• 1:14:09
  big enough? Yeah.
• 1:14:10
  And we go back and forth until everyone is happy and that's
• 1:14:15
  that. I know I'm going to, in your
• 1:14:17
  defence, I'm going to tell you what happened behind the scenes.
• 1:14:20
  Oh no. No, and this is, this is great.
• 1:14:22
  No, because you were absolutely fine.
• 1:14:24
  I go to the gym with Austin. He comes in one day and he's
• 1:14:28
  like kind of in about me, but not really in about me.
• 1:14:30
  No, no, no, you, it's fine. You're fine.
• 1:14:32
  And I was like, what's up? And he's like, oh, we're just
• 1:14:35
  about to announce this Amity tool.
• 1:14:36
  And I was like, what's up? And he's like, our logo is
• 1:14:39
  really fucking small. I laughed my fucking ass off.
• 1:14:42
  Like I like start losing it in the gym and then I see it and
• 1:14:47
  I'm like, yeah, it's kind of small, but it's like not insane.
• 1:14:50
  And he was like, I get it. It's because their logo is a
• 1:14:53
  weird shape and someone's just put it in the way their logo is.
• 1:14:57
  And he was like, hey, I don't know what to do.
• 1:15:00
  And I was like, I know Joel. All you need to do is ask them
• 1:15:04
  for your logo a bit bigger because I guarantee you this is
• 1:15:08
  an oversight somewhere and they do not want the fucking smoke
• 1:15:11
  after the bad owners thing. He didn't even know about the
• 1:15:13
  bad owners thing. I explained.
• 1:15:15
  It. Oh boy.
• 1:15:16
  For about two or three days, because they're so green.
• 1:15:20
  They didn't want to rock the boat.
• 1:15:21
  They just weren't going to do it.
• 1:15:22
  I'll. Rock the boat.
• 1:15:23
  It was me. I said to Austin.
• 1:15:26
  I was like, I'm telling you, if you want your logo bigger, there
• 1:15:29
  is no fucking way that I can't speak for the rest of the band,
• 1:15:34
  but there's no way Joel is going to let a band be unhappy with
• 1:15:38
  the size of the logo after that last fucking thing.
• 1:15:41
  So I think you should just send the e-mail.
• 1:15:43
  Apparently they sent the e-mail and they got changed the same
• 1:15:45
  day and it was fine. Of course I know, but it's like
• 1:15:47
  never. Going to be a thing.
• 1:15:48
  They were so green, they didn't want to rock the boat at all.
• 1:15:51
  And I was like, the balls in your court here kind of
• 1:15:54
  orthodox. The ball, the ball the.
• 1:15:56
  Record is in everyone's got but ours forever.
• 1:16:01
  I didn't want that to come across like you fucking did it
• 1:16:04
  again. But it's like.
• 1:16:05
  We did. It is a graphic.
• 1:16:09
  Designer did it again and this is and this is probably the
• 1:16:11
  problem. It's me.
• 1:16:13
  I mean, yeah, no. I'm the graphic designer though.
• 1:16:16
  Oh easy, you. Yeah, so I, I put them all
• 1:16:19
  together, right? And because their logo is tall,
• 1:16:22
  it's slotted in like there's a method to the madness, right?
• 1:16:26
  It's like everything's in percentages.
• 1:16:28
  So it's like August, Burns Rd. and Amity were at 100% and then
• 1:16:32
  we had boundaries. Yeah, I knew.
• 1:16:36
  Boundaries were like 75% and then it was 50% and then it was
• 1:16:42
  whatever. And their logo is.
• 1:16:44
  And their logo, because it's tall, it just, it was just, it
• 1:16:47
  was literally in Photoshop. It's just a percentage thing
• 1:16:50
  because I do it now to cover my ass because I'm like, hey, this
• 1:16:54
  is your logo. And it's this percent of this
• 1:16:56
  logo. And yeah, but when I got the
• 1:17:00
  e-mail back, I was like, yeah, sure.
• 1:17:02
  Because of course. They were worrying I.
• 1:17:04
  Remember it? No, because I remember looking
• 1:17:06
  at it when I sent it off because now because of that whole shit,
• 1:17:11
  like every tour now I send off just a crop of the masthead.
• 1:17:17
  So that people can approve it. Yeah, because it has to.
• 1:17:19
  For me to be happy, it has to get approved.
• 1:17:21
  From yeah, I I think that some of the problem is people who are
• 1:17:25
  so green they don't want to rock the boat, so they just, they
• 1:17:28
  just eat whatever it is. Yeah, but you know what?
• 1:17:30
  I'm glad you spoke to him so he knows that he should advocate
• 1:17:34
  for himself. I just knew that you, but based
• 1:17:39
  on the bad homies thing, I just knew.
• 1:17:40
  There's no fucking way they've done that on purpose because
• 1:17:43
  they just would not want that fucking heat again.
• 1:17:45
  No, no, no, never. Never, never, ever again.
• 1:17:49
  House of Cards at last first record.
• 1:17:55
  Yep. Happy.
• 1:17:56
  I'm pretty stoked, yeah. Where'd you guys record it?
• 1:17:59
  What was it? Something beach.
• 1:18:02
  Bogola Beach? Bill Golla.
• 1:18:04
  Bill Golla in. Australia, Yeah, in.
• 1:18:05
  Australia. Yeah, made this motherfucker fly
• 1:18:07
  all the way out. I was tough.
• 1:18:09
  Tough for him, Really. Yeah.
• 1:18:11
  I stay in a mansion by the beach.
• 1:18:13
  Yeah, well, I thought it would have been a remote job.
• 1:18:15
  All that I remember was I did that back at just at home in a
• 1:18:19
  pantry closet. Really.
• 1:18:20
  Yeah. With some packing blankets and
• 1:18:22
  stuff. I do audio so it's.
• 1:18:25
  Him and Dan are like 2 peas in a pod.
• 1:18:28
  Excellent. And Dan wanted to be there,
• 1:18:31
  obviously producing again. Dan has produced the last three
• 1:18:35
  releases now, so. I I wanted down there too.
• 1:18:39
  Yeah, but Dan was either going to have to record me and then
• 1:18:42
  fly over and record Johnny. Yeah.
• 1:18:45
  Or we fly Johnny and do it all at the same time.
• 1:18:47
  How long did it take you to track you in particular?
• 1:18:50
  I'm looking at these guys are old fucking hair.
• 1:18:53
  But if you're learning a song in, you're learning a set in
• 1:18:55
  seven days. Well, I came with like melodies
• 1:18:58
  that I just had like throw away lyrics to and then Dan like the
• 1:19:02
  week leading up to that fitted like his lyrics into my
• 1:19:06
  melodies. So I was pretty familiar with
• 1:19:09
  like what I was going in to do, just not the words.
• 1:19:11
  I think I finished in like 10 days and we were there for like
• 1:19:15
  how many days? 14. 14 So you're you're the
• 1:19:18
  wordsmith. Yep, always have been.
• 1:19:21
  Yep. Slot in with the melodies.
• 1:19:24
  You can sing though, can't you? I never wanted to.
• 1:19:27
  Yeah, I think we had this chat before.
• 1:19:29
  Yeah, I never, ever wanted to. I was like, aren't things?
• 1:19:33
  You get a little, let him have a scream.
• 1:19:35
  I asked him to, but he's he's too good at singing.
• 1:19:38
  He's very conscious of what he needs to do properly and.
• 1:19:41
  What? He's a real fucking robot
• 1:19:43
  professional. You've done this right.
• 1:19:45
  Professional. Yeah, these are my words.
• 1:19:47
  You'll be singing them like this.
• 1:19:48
  You do that the really, really hard bit.
• 1:19:51
  Like I can do the. I can do the emotions.
• 1:19:54
  You've got a fucking make it sound like it was you.
• 1:19:57
  I'm working on it. I'm, I'm trying to get a scream,
• 1:19:59
  you know, developed in there, you know, maybe not for the
• 1:20:02
  records, but for live, you know. In your other band, did you
• 1:20:05
  write the lyrics? Yeah.
• 1:20:07
  Good, good. Like handful anything that I
• 1:20:10
  did, yeah. I wrote, I wrote.
• 1:20:12
  So like Joel, by his own admission and mine, he's very
• 1:20:18
  depressed. He's very sad.
• 1:20:20
  But you are, you are. Your lyrics are sad.
• 1:20:25
  Is it difficult to convey his feelings in your voice?
• 1:20:31
  It wasn't so much just because if you go listen to some of the
• 1:20:35
  Kingdom of Giants records, they're mostly like heartbreak,
• 1:20:39
  like love songs. So they're equally as sad, but
• 1:20:42
  maybe just not about, you know, the same subject.
• 1:20:45
  Is it easy to tap in? Like tap in how?
• 1:20:47
  Do you like tap into like how he was feeling?
• 1:20:50
  Like just to relate that to something that you've done?
• 1:20:54
  Like I'm just trying to think when you're singing, like actual
• 1:20:57
  singing, screaming doesn't count.
• 1:20:59
  Respectfully, it does. I'm joking.
• 1:21:01
  But like, I don't think when you're singing, it's it's a
• 1:21:06
  motive in a different way. Like, do you know what I mean?
• 1:21:11
  I don't know. I just, I don't think I could
• 1:21:13
  sing someone else's words and like make it sound emotive.
• 1:21:19
  Like get the emotion in there. Like, is that difficult?
• 1:21:22
  You're just telling me no, you're just going to tell me I'm
• 1:21:23
  a fucking robot? Well, for this record I actually
• 1:21:28
  could relate quite a bit with just like fractured relationship
• 1:21:34
  with his mom. Barely touched on it a little
• 1:21:38
  while ago. But yeah, you know, like I, my
• 1:21:40
  mom and I never saw eye to eye either.
• 1:21:43
  I was kind of like in support and just like, it was almost
• 1:21:47
  just like, I was like, yeah, man, like that's right on, you
• 1:21:50
  know, like, kind of just like getting behind him, you know,
• 1:21:53
  like, and having his back on a lot of those things 'cause I was
• 1:21:55
  just like, yeah, that's how I used to feel too, you know,
• 1:21:58
  like, so it was actually, it was a lot easier to do that singing,
• 1:22:03
  you know, some of the other songs live and stuff like that.
• 1:22:06
  It has its challenges, you know, singing other people's lyrics.
• 1:22:12
  I definitely compared myself to like, you know, oh, how would he
• 1:22:15
  have sang it? I want, I want people to be
• 1:22:17
  happy with, you know? Is there any particular saying?
• 1:22:20
  Not to harp on about the old stuff, but was there like any
• 1:22:22
  melodies you couldn't do and had to change or did you just nail
• 1:22:25
  it? Well, the first day I showed up
• 1:22:28
  with my notebook and everything, we had a rehearsal that you
• 1:22:31
  weren't at, or maybe you showed up later, but golfing they they
• 1:22:35
  had sent me. I've been crying at that point.
• 1:22:37
  I was going to say golfing, but sorry, carry on.
• 1:22:40
  Caleb, their manager, had sent me a download for the deluxe
• 1:22:44
  reissue of Let the Ocean Take Me, and that's three semitones
• 1:22:47
  down, and I had been rehearsing to the original.
• 1:22:51
  I didn't know that. All that week, so I showed up
• 1:22:54
  ready to sing like at the top of my range and they were just
• 1:22:57
  like, no, like you're pretty just like relaxed, keep it low,
• 1:23:00
  keep it chill. And like, I struggled with that
• 1:23:03
  'cause I was, I prepped all the like my high range stuff, you
• 1:23:07
  know, to do the original record. So 10 days, is that what you
• 1:23:12
  were expecting from him? 10 days we were expecting faster
• 1:23:16
  traditionally. How long is it taking?
• 1:23:18
  We usually give ourselves one day per song and then I'm the
• 1:23:23
  one always asking for a buffer. Yeah.
• 1:23:27
  Like for instance, the first day we I went in there to record and
• 1:23:30
  I couldn't scream. I was just in my head,
• 1:23:33
  everything. Yeah, I was just like, so under
• 1:23:38
  self-imposed pressure to perform that I couldn't do it.
• 1:23:43
  I could not do it. Like, noises were coming out of
• 1:23:47
  me that I didn't. I was like, I don't know.
• 1:23:50
  And Dan was just sitting there like, fuck, you know, like he
• 1:23:53
  was like, man, it's in there. Like I don't know what's.
• 1:23:55
  Going on, we just got the new other singer do your fucking.
• 1:23:59
  Thing he was being really supportive, right?
• 1:24:02
  And I was like, man, I don't know what's going on.
• 1:24:04
  Like I just put myself under this immense pressure and so
• 1:24:08
  that was a day wasted. Right.
• 1:24:11
  So this is 10 days for both of you to do.
• 1:24:13
  Everything. Yeah.
• 1:24:14
  And we had 14 days there, so that takes it to 13 for me,
• 1:24:17
  right? So I start panicking and for me
• 1:24:21
  it's like on this album I did 44 takes.
• 1:24:26
  SO4 kept takes of every line. And then if there were higher
• 1:24:32
  screams and lower screams, it was 4 of each of those.
• 1:24:35
  So some some vocals have 12 of me.
• 1:24:40
  Yeah, I can hear it sounds demonic.
• 1:24:42
  Yeah, so there's like a lot going on.
• 1:24:45
  So it's very like labour intensive.
• 1:24:47
  And I always worry every record about losing my voice, right?
• 1:24:51
  And if I do that, I need a day to like, do nothing.
• 1:24:55
  But it was, it was like, I don't know, it flowed so well, man.
• 1:24:58
  It was like we got into a routine and the routine just
• 1:25:02
  worked so well that it was just like, I, you know, I would wake
• 1:25:06
  up, I would go get coffee. I would go to golf.
• 1:25:09
  I'd come back. He was either finished or just
• 1:25:12
  finishing up. Dan would have lunch.
• 1:25:14
  I'd go in, finish up, eat dinner, go to bed, repeat.
• 1:25:19
  And it was just like, I don't know, just this really healthy,
• 1:25:22
  collaborative, positive environment that just made
• 1:25:26
  things kind of go smoother. So we ended up getting done with
• 1:25:31
  three days to spare I think. I'm guessing from how you've
• 1:25:34
  said that that wasn't always the case.
• 1:25:36
  No, and I mean, I've talked about this.
• 1:25:40
  I talked about Rolling Stone in Australia, and people on the
• 1:25:43
  Internet ran with their own story and Joel's fucking talking
• 1:25:48
  shit about not liking recording. But I've hated recording
• 1:25:51
  forever, and it's got nothing to do with anyone for the most
• 1:25:54
  part. Like there were obviously things
• 1:25:57
  in the studio within the band that were pretty toxic and I
• 1:26:01
  didn't like, and it was very stressful, but most of the
• 1:26:03
  stress came from myself. So most of the thing I hated
• 1:26:07
  about recording was recording. Like just being.
• 1:26:09
  Having to. Perform like having to record
• 1:26:12
  because it was like, you know how it is you do a tour and then
• 1:26:15
  six weeks later they're like, OK, so instead of doing the
• 1:26:17
  tour, you're doing the the record.
• 1:26:20
  And I'm like, well, I haven't screamed in six weeks.
• 1:26:24
  And then this one was like 2 weeks after a tour.
• 1:26:28
  So I was like super, super like performance fit kind of thing.
• 1:26:33
  Like felt good. Enough rest.
• 1:26:35
  Enough rest, but not enough that.
• 1:26:38
  You've lost your shops. Exactly are.
• 1:26:39
  You coming to these sessions with those melodies that you had
• 1:26:44
  with just like fellow locals. Are you coming with everything
• 1:26:47
  like done, you're just coming to perform, or you guys writing
• 1:26:51
  stuff in the studio, changing stuff?
• 1:26:54
  It's like a back and forth. Like 95% done right, yeah.
• 1:26:58
  I mean, yeah, maybe 90% there. Actually, you probably tink it a
• 1:27:02
  lot more. Yeah, I mean, I had, like you
• 1:27:05
  said, two weeks and I just like it felt, you know, like a little
• 1:27:10
  rush trying to get stuff together in two weeks time.
• 1:27:15
  But yeah, like I felt pretty confident about what I did have
• 1:27:19
  because I sent you guys like rough demos and you were just
• 1:27:22
  like, Yep, Yep, that's cool. Yeah, it was that.
• 1:27:25
  It was that really. Yeah.
• 1:27:26
  That's great. Everything he sent is on the
• 1:27:28
  record. Wow.
• 1:27:30
  That's true, yeah. Dan wrote the melody and lyrics
• 1:27:34
  for one track that I couldn't tell you what the name of it is
• 1:27:37
  right now, but so. And then two of the songs don't
• 1:27:41
  have singing, so it was like. Then we'll take what I've
• 1:27:46
  written and if they don't fit exactly, he'll like add in a
• 1:27:50
  little line and send it back to me to check on.
• 1:27:54
  I'll rewrite, send it back or resends it to me and I say that
• 1:27:58
  makes no sense and rewrite the whole thing for him.
• 1:28:02
  So it's always, always been like that, like this.
• 1:28:06
  We've never done a full album where I've written every word on
• 1:28:09
  the album. Yeah, you need another set of
• 1:28:11
  eyes. I would have written 95% of the
• 1:28:15
  songs, you know what I mean? But I think I don't know.
• 1:28:19
  It's always good because I write them, I forget about them, so
• 1:28:22
  I'm not attached to them. I send them off, they come back,
• 1:28:24
  I rewrite what I need to and it. I don't know how it works.
• 1:28:29
  Here's the thing I noticed, I don't know if maybe it's wrong,
• 1:28:32
  but it does say all songs written by Amity Affliction.
• 1:28:35
  Yeah, that's a conscious, unconscious effort.
• 1:28:38
  Or are you all in on everything like?
• 1:28:41
  We always did that because I don't know, man.
• 1:28:47
  We didn't really have an ego about it.
• 1:28:49
  Yeah. And then, I don't know.
• 1:28:52
  I like it that way. Yeah, so do I.
• 1:28:54
  We always did it with Trey and even you would have half an
• 1:28:58
  album where maybe some someone's not feeling it and I can't give
• 1:29:02
  as much as they used to, but it doesn't matter.
• 1:29:04
  Yeah, you want to do that, but not a lot of bands do that,
• 1:29:06
  particularly in your genre. Yeah, but I I like that.
• 1:29:11
  It's like the the big thing for me about saying that as well as
• 1:29:15
  like the this, like this band did this and no one from the
• 1:29:19
  outside did a fucking thing. So you're a producer?
• 1:29:23
  Yeah, like, I guess you could say that he's very humble.
• 1:29:26
  I don't produce. Too humble for the podcast.
• 1:29:28
  Step. Step that humble down.
• 1:29:31
  You produce like you produce yourself.
• 1:29:33
  I produce my own stuff. You produce your own stuff.
• 1:29:35
  Dan's obviously a producer. Yep, you got a little rig at
• 1:29:38
  home. Fuck no dude.
• 1:29:40
  Yeah, I didn't think. So anything about anything.
• 1:29:42
  That was quite funny. So like you in in the writing
• 1:29:46
  process, how are things getting started?
• 1:29:49
  Is Dan writing most of the song and then it's going to you or?
• 1:29:53
  Yeah, like Dan on the few tours I was doing leading up to
• 1:29:58
  recording with sending demos like instrumentals that he just
• 1:30:04
  wrote in the bus, you know, for a few hours each day.
• 1:30:07
  And yeah, he sent us like a folder with 10 songs with just
• 1:30:12
  the instrumentals. And then I had two weeks to just
• 1:30:15
  sit with each one and just kind of, like I said, throwaway
• 1:30:18
  lyrics. So I, I'm just complete
• 1:30:20
  gibberish, you know what I mean? And.
• 1:30:22
  Just can you remember any time? Give me a, give me a line.
• 1:30:25
  Give me the worst throwaway. Line.
• 1:30:27
  They wanted that. They weren't really bad.
• 1:30:29
  He thinks they're bad. No, they were throwaway lines.
• 1:30:32
  Like they're not going to get used.
• 1:30:33
  They weren't. Like like throwaway the.
• 1:30:35
  Cat sat on the mat. No, no, no, damn it.
• 1:30:37
  Yeah. No, he wrote, he wrote like,
• 1:30:39
  yeah, he wrote pretty good lyrics.
• 1:30:41
  But you, you wrote the melodies. Or is Dan sending you these with
• 1:30:44
  melodies in mind? Just instrumentals, no melodies.
• 1:30:49
  That's a bro. That's a fucking.
• 1:30:50
  Dan wanted to see what came back.
• 1:30:52
  And everything came back. It's our first record, like
• 1:30:55
  first full album with him. So Dan was like, Jane had
• 1:30:59
  melodies in his head. Yeah, but he wanted to see what
• 1:31:01
  Johnny came back with. And everything that Johnny came
• 1:31:03
  back with is on the record. That's good.
• 1:31:06
  That's how you know you've nabbed a good one.
• 1:31:09
  Yeah, he would send stuff and that's like texting on the side.
• 1:31:13
  Like fuck, fuck, you fucking hear this?
• 1:31:18
  Like, that's awesome. Yeah, tell me.
• 1:31:20
  Tell me about this Mom. You alluded to it before.
• 1:31:25
  Tell me about this parental unit.
• 1:31:27
  He. I'm just going to say we were on
• 1:31:30
  tour and he had to go home for like, his mom died and he flew
• 1:31:37
  back to the tour. We don't have to go here, but
• 1:31:42
  like you've alluded to it and you were like I've had a
• 1:31:44
  chequered pass my mom were. We like one year apart in in the
• 1:31:50
  dead mom department. I think so, yeah.
• 1:31:53
  Pretty much the same reason to cancer.
• 1:31:56
  Yeah, My mom drank herself to death.
• 1:31:59
  Yeah. So I had a friend that died of
• 1:32:01
  cancer that was brought on by alcoholism in January 24.
• 1:32:06
  My mom died in July 24. And in the mid midst of all this
• 1:32:12
  was everything happening with our.
• 1:32:14
  And so I didn't really get a chance to like grieve my friend
• 1:32:20
  or deal with my mom and I haven't hasn't really caught up
• 1:32:24
  yet. But then he was like, yeah, my
• 1:32:26
  mom's dying. I was like fuck bro this.
• 1:32:30
  Is dark, and if you want to go dark, yeah, we can cut it if you
• 1:32:35
  don't. Yeah, I mean, from my
• 1:32:37
  perspective, like my mom was indoctrinized hardcore from
• 1:32:42
  leaders in churches that she followed, you know, with her
• 1:32:46
  whole heart and she never really truly knew herself because of
• 1:32:50
  that. And it bled out into my
• 1:32:54
  upbringing and my siblings upbringing too.
• 1:32:57
  You know, there was like a like a glass pane between me and her
• 1:33:02
  constantly, you know what I mean?
• 1:33:03
  Like there was just certain things that you just like almost
• 1:33:07
  like, I don't know, like not robotic, but just like she was
• 1:33:12
  under mind control, you know what I mean?
• 1:33:13
  Like, and so everything in life from, you know, like things I'm
• 1:33:18
  dealing with, I could just never go to her because it was always
• 1:33:20
  just like, oh, well, you know, you got it, you know, pray about
• 1:33:24
  it. You got to go to the church
• 1:33:25
  leaders and like, you know, really give it to God, you know,
• 1:33:29
  type thing. And I I mean, I don't want to
• 1:33:32
  play it up like it, you know, like it was something that
• 1:33:35
  crazy. But just psychologically, what
• 1:33:38
  that does to you, you know, as a kid growing up where you're just
• 1:33:40
  like, yeah, you know, yeah, I don't really know who this
• 1:33:44
  person is. Did you fall out?
• 1:33:45
  Yeah, I mean, like, you know, I had the classic, like, high
• 1:33:48
  school fallout, get kicked out of my house, you know, for
• 1:33:51
  months at a time and, you know, just because I was like,
• 1:33:54
  skipping school, got caught smoking a few times, cops and,
• 1:33:59
  you know, brought me home and, you know, drinking and all that
• 1:34:02
  stuff. High school.
• 1:34:03
  Being as teenager. Being a teenager, yeah, exactly.
• 1:34:05
  So I mean, like, there were years, yeah, where we're like,
• 1:34:08
  we really like, yeah, Just like we're at odds, you know what I
• 1:34:11
  mean? But the weird thing about it,
• 1:34:12
  too, is just like, like, I just felt like it was, she was only,
• 1:34:18
  like, removed by a small degree. Like if I could just break down
• 1:34:21
  a wall just slightly enough, I could actually see like, and
• 1:34:25
  feel, you know, her love for me and things like that.
• 1:34:29
  But it was just like, clouded by religion.
• 1:34:32
  And like, I think like, there's things in her life that she
• 1:34:36
  never opened up to me about, you know, that made her go that to
• 1:34:40
  that extreme. She was a religious extremist.
• 1:34:42
  You know, I think like, she felt powerless her whole life.
• 1:34:45
  And I think that's what causes people to go towards, you know,
• 1:34:48
  extremism is when you feel powerless.
• 1:34:51
  When someone like that dies, how do you feel?
• 1:34:55
  Conflicted as hell, yeah. You obviously flew back to the
• 1:34:58
  funeral. Yeah.
• 1:34:59
  And like had some good memories to, you know, just her whole
• 1:35:05
  body was just getting riddled with, you know, cancer and
• 1:35:08
  things like that. It was just, it was towards the
• 1:35:10
  end, you know, I mean she was like somewhat there but really
• 1:35:14
  not there. But like, you know, the one last
• 1:35:16
  like good thing I can think about, I think like 2 days
• 1:35:19
  before I flew back out to the tour was she was like pretty non
• 1:35:25
  verbal for a few days there when I'm just sitting there chilling
• 1:35:28
  with everybody and we couldn't get her to eat.
• 1:35:32
  And she saw a commercial for Little Caesar's Pizza, and that
• 1:35:36
  perked her. And.
• 1:35:38
  She said they look so delicious on those ads.
• 1:35:41
  Like is that good? She's like, are those good?
• 1:35:43
  Like it was like. Some that's funny.
• 1:35:45
  Cupcake looking pizza bite things.
• 1:35:47
  I was just. Like, I know they are good.
• 1:35:49
  For the record, they're pretty fucking good.
• 1:35:51
  I was like, let's find out. So I just went and got her
• 1:35:54
  something, you know, and she, she took a few bites, you know?
• 1:35:56
  You. That's cute.
• 1:35:58
  You said something earlier that made me think about this because
• 1:36:01
  you said I didn't have time to grieve for my friend or deal
• 1:36:05
  with my mom. She cut us off.
• 1:36:07
  So I flew my sister home from She lives in Spain, she lives
• 1:36:12
  like down near Malaga and I flew her home and my brother cut his
• 1:36:19
  trip overseas short. He came home and I just come
• 1:36:25
  home from, I don't even know where.
• 1:36:28
  I just come home from somewhere. So the three of us get together,
• 1:36:31
  we go in and before I went and saw her on my own first, sorry.
• 1:36:35
  And I was like on my way there, I was like, well, she's dying.
• 1:36:40
  So I'm going to give her some grace, and I'm not going to.
• 1:36:44
  You had fairly fallen out at this point.
• 1:36:47
  I would. I made a choice when Bowie was
• 1:36:51
  born. You can't come near me because I
• 1:36:55
  don't want you to. That I'll let you be close to my
• 1:37:00
  son. I was like, that's what you get,
• 1:37:02
  you know, like you don't get me. But I'm not going to stop Bowie
• 1:37:06
  from getting to have a relationship with you because
• 1:37:10
  maybe you want to fuck that up basically, Which, you know, for
• 1:37:14
  the most part, she didn't. She said some shit to him that I
• 1:37:16
  was just like, that is so out of pocket.
• 1:37:18
  I was going to say like, if I was a gambling man, like you
• 1:37:23
  would fall in out of there. She airplay letting see the kid.
• 1:37:27
  Yeah, most people wouldn't. So I took, you know, I went to
• 1:37:31
  the hospital. I was like, I'm going to give
• 1:37:32
  her some grace. I'm not going to bring up
• 1:37:34
  anything. Just going to tell her I love
• 1:37:36
  her, you know, And there was 11 moment where I said it's all
• 1:37:43
  right mom. And then she started crying and
• 1:37:45
  she said it's not, it's not. And then it boom, gone.
• 1:37:49
  That was it. That was all I got.
• 1:37:51
  And then it started being like, why isn't your sister here?
• 1:37:54
  Why isn't your brother here? So you nearly got what you
• 1:37:57
  needed. I nearly got there.
• 1:37:58
  Yeah. And then my my brother and
• 1:38:00
  sister came. And then she started, like,
• 1:38:02
  abusing my sister for letting me pay for a plane ticket.
• 1:38:05
  I'm just like, what the fuck is going on?
• 1:38:07
  And then we were trying to, like, get her to sign these, you
• 1:38:11
  know, just legal documents. So we sort her fucking life out.
• 1:38:14
  She's got no money. And she's like talking to us.
• 1:38:16
  Like we're all trying to argue over her estate.
• 1:38:19
  And I'm just like, you have no money.
• 1:38:21
  Like, what? What are we doing here?
• 1:38:24
  And you know, my sister's fucking crying.
• 1:38:27
  My brother's like he doesn't know what to do it himself.
• 1:38:31
  And that we left and we're going there every day for like a week.
• 1:38:34
  And then we after the third time, I was just like, I'm not
• 1:38:38
  going. I was like, fuck this.
• 1:38:42
  And then I went, I went down a few days later and she was like
• 1:38:47
  getting checked out of the hospital.
• 1:38:49
  And we didn't know this at the time, but she'd talked to the
• 1:38:52
  hospital and she told them to check her out.
• 1:38:58
  And because she had had her faculties enough, they couldn't
• 1:39:01
  stop her. We didn't know that.
• 1:39:05
  And so I've had to sit down like her beds here and I've had to
• 1:39:08
  sit down like to my left behind her so she can't see me because
• 1:39:13
  I'm fuming. I'm like, you're dying.
• 1:39:17
  Like, why are you doing this to people?
• 1:39:19
  And she goes back, She's staying with my cousin in this granny
• 1:39:23
  flat and in in that little period there, she told the
• 1:39:29
  hospital they weren't allowed to tell the three of us, her kids,
• 1:39:35
  her condition. And then she stopped talking to
• 1:39:40
  us. She told our cousin not to talk
• 1:39:42
  to us. And then she proceeded to like,
• 1:39:48
  not be able to get out of bed. She was shitting the bed.
• 1:39:51
  She was dying. She was dying in the House of my
• 1:39:53
  cousin. And my cousin's kid was like, I
• 1:39:56
  don't know, man, 1516 or something.
• 1:39:59
  Had to help my cousin clean up my mom, you know, and so my
• 1:40:05
  cousin doesn't know what's going on.
• 1:40:07
  So she's getting angry at us. We're getting angry at her.
• 1:40:10
  We don't know what's going on. We're trying.
• 1:40:12
  But you're not allowed to be there.
• 1:40:13
  Or you are. She wasn't talking to us.
• 1:40:15
  Yeah. OK, so we actually had no idea
• 1:40:17
  what was going on. And and then she gets admitted
• 1:40:21
  back in the hospital. I'm calling the hospital and I'm
• 1:40:24
  like, what's going on? And they're like, oh, we can't
• 1:40:26
  tell you. What do you mean you can't tell
• 1:40:30
  me? Like I'm her son, like I'm the
• 1:40:32
  eldest son. Like tell me.
• 1:40:33
  And they're like, no, we can't. I get a call like a week later.
• 1:40:37
  So this has been a week. So she like terrorized my
• 1:40:40
  fucking cousin for a whole week, like pissing and shitting and
• 1:40:43
  falling over and. I mean, terrorizing is a fucking
• 1:40:47
  bad word there. She's not doing it on purpose.
• 1:40:50
  She well look, she made the choice to go there even though
• 1:40:53
  she knew what was going on with her body.
• 1:40:55
  You really resent this person. It's like, yeah, I have such a
• 1:40:59
  good relationship with my mom. Both of these conversations are
• 1:41:02
  like, I don't even know what to say.
• 1:41:04
  Yeah, because she treated me this way my whole life.
• 1:41:08
  Yeah. So I I've I have intimate
• 1:41:12
  knowledge of the this sort of mechanics of her mind going into
• 1:41:17
  this. Like she said like I'm a miracle
• 1:41:20
  the treatments going to work on me.
• 1:41:21
  And like she's in fucking conspiratorial telegram groups
• 1:41:25
  and shit. She's like full Q and on like.
• 1:41:29
  That's just an old person though, isn't it?
• 1:41:30
  Yeah, like, whatever, right? That's just old people.
• 1:41:32
  Anyway, she goes back to the hospital.
• 1:41:34
  They're not telling me shit. A week later, they call me and
• 1:41:36
  they're like, hey, your mom's going to die today.
• 1:41:38
  Like probably 3 hours. And I was like, cool, I'll call
• 1:41:42
  the crematorium. I know, three hours.
• 1:41:45
  There's like a point where they're just pumping them full
• 1:41:47
  of pain medicine. My OK, yeah.
• 1:41:50
  They're not there. They're.
• 1:41:52
  Just like that's just a body, you know what I mean?
• 1:41:55
  Like there's no person left, the person has left the building or
• 1:41:59
  the person's in so much pain. They have to make a decision.
• 1:42:03
  That they, they die like they, you know, from, from what I
• 1:42:07
  understand from my, my doctor friend, it's like the people
• 1:42:11
  that make it through surgeries where they could die, the people
• 1:42:14
  that kind of fight, the spirits kind of fighting to stay in it.
• 1:42:19
  And then other people will die in like a minor surgery because
• 1:42:22
  their body, their brain goes, Nah, I'm good.
• 1:42:26
  It's just such an Australian way to say, yeah, I'm good, I'm
• 1:42:29
  fucking good. So she she died.
• 1:42:32
  They told me she was going to die.
• 1:42:33
  I was like, yeah, cool. I called the crematorium.
• 1:42:37
  So what happened? I was like, hey, my mom's dying
• 1:42:39
  today. I'm not shocked at how much you
• 1:42:42
  don't care. Like, I feel uncomfortable.
• 1:42:44
  It seems like you don't care, but you've obviously written
• 1:42:46
  songs about it on this record. I do care.
• 1:42:49
  I care because of the age I'm at.
• 1:42:52
  You know, you hit your 30s and you start, you know, especially
• 1:42:56
  for me, because I stopped drinking in my early 30s, I had
• 1:43:00
  a lot to reflect on. So that whole thing, like the,
• 1:43:03
  the logo gate thing, right? Happened like 2 years I think
• 1:43:06
  after I stopped drinking. I was still very much like in
• 1:43:10
  rage mode. Yeah.
• 1:43:11
  Yeah. Because I just didn't know what
• 1:43:13
  to do with all these emotions, right.
• 1:43:16
  And you spend like, you know, three years, three years of
• 1:43:19
  sobriety finally started being like a bit more level with my
• 1:43:25
  emotions. And so instead of reflecting
• 1:43:27
  just on my drinking, I started reflecting on my life.
• 1:43:30
  And then I'm getting older and I'm like thinking about my
• 1:43:33
  childhood and realizing I don't remember much of it.
• 1:43:37
  And then I'm like, well, why? And then talking to a
• 1:43:41
  psychologist and I'm like, you know, when I stopped drinking, I
• 1:43:45
  was like, give me hypnotherapy. And she was like, hang on a
• 1:43:47
  second. And she asked me a series of
• 1:43:49
  questions. And, you know, it was like, what
• 1:43:52
  do you remember from this to this, this, to this, this, to
• 1:43:54
  this, this, to this. And I was like, nothing.
• 1:43:57
  She goes, all right, well, we're not doing that.
• 1:43:59
  And then my doctor friend has like, nearly photographic
• 1:44:03
  memory. And I was asking him after a few
• 1:44:05
  years of not drinking. And he said to me, I'm not going
• 1:44:09
  to tell you, man, I just wish you grew up in a house where
• 1:44:12
  they respected you as a human being.
• 1:44:14
  And I was like, that's worse. So I, you know, I, I did care,
• 1:44:22
  but I didn't care for the, for the reasons.
• 1:44:24
  And that's what the, the whole album is kind of exploring this
• 1:44:27
  disconnect between what a mother should be and what you do with
• 1:44:32
  yourself and how you deal with that as a person.
• 1:44:36
  If your mother was the complete opposite of what society kind of
• 1:44:40
  puts motherhood into, because not every mother is a mother.
• 1:44:46
  They're just a person that had children, and that's what she
• 1:44:49
  was. One of the best things that
• 1:44:51
  happened after it was my brother and sister and I realized that
• 1:44:55
  she'd been basically making each of us feel like she had a great
• 1:45:00
  relationship with the other two. And no one did.
• 1:45:03
  So my sister thought that the two brothers had a great
• 1:45:06
  relationship. My brother thought that myself
• 1:45:08
  and my sister had a great relationship and I thought they
• 1:45:11
  had a great relationship and none of us did.
• 1:45:14
  She was just like playing us all.
• 1:45:15
  Oh, sorry, playing us all off one another.
• 1:45:18
  And so we've become much, much closer after after that.
• 1:45:23
  So, you know, like something dies, something gets born from
• 1:45:28
  it and and there are positives to be had there I think.
• 1:45:32
  Weird, the synchronicity between the two of your stories.
• 1:45:36
  Yeah. Did you not know that?
• 1:45:37
  No, I wasn't part of the like checklist.
• 1:45:39
  Like as you join the band. Mummy issues.
• 1:45:43
  Tick. No, not at.
• 1:45:44
  All melodies, mummy issues, we've done all the ends.
• 1:45:48
  No, it's like he comes into the band, he's new in the band, and
• 1:45:51
  then it's like after several months he's just like starts
• 1:45:53
  talking and we're just like, oh fuck.
• 1:45:55
  I'm like, dude, you want to chat about it?
• 1:45:58
  Like I just did this. What does What does House of
• 1:46:02
  Cards mean? It came from a song that didn't
• 1:46:06
  a song lyrics that didn't make the album.
• 1:46:09
  And the line was you grew up in a stable home.
• 1:46:13
  I grew up in House of Cards and I was writing it.
• 1:46:17
  It was very much about someone, not iron.
• 1:46:21
  It was about someone in my life, though, who did grow up in a
• 1:46:25
  stable home and still and just wouldn't, wouldn't listen to
• 1:46:31
  what I was saying about my upbringing kind of thing.
• 1:46:34
  And I was just like this thing. It was like I I wanted to write
• 1:46:38
  about it. And the whole thing was like,
• 1:46:44
  House of Cards is, you know, easy to topple.
• 1:46:47
  And my whole life at home was so fragile.
• 1:46:51
  Like the time between being screamed at or hit and and like
• 1:46:59
  a nice moment was just so like fragile that it felt like
• 1:47:06
  everything could collapse at all times.
• 1:47:09
  So you are abused by this woman? Yeah, and my and my stepfather.
• 1:47:13
  I'm really sorry to just put that out there like that, but I
• 1:47:17
  don't know that. Yeah.
• 1:47:19
  And I hear these, you know, stories about not, you know,
• 1:47:23
  essentially not really grieving your mother's death.
• 1:47:25
  And I can't put, I can put two and two together.
• 1:47:28
  But I'm also just a little bit like, what?
• 1:47:30
  What are you fucking? What's that face for?
• 1:47:33
  Because if I may, I, we'll say you do have a really good
• 1:47:38
  relationship with your parents. And there is definitely it's
• 1:47:41
  interesting that you brought it up because there is a difference
• 1:47:43
  in upbringing where my dad left and my mom and I had a very
• 1:47:45
  strained relationship. So seeing the parallels to you
• 1:47:48
  talking about the parallels, I do see that in a day-to-day
• 1:47:52
  because of our upbringing. And then the hatred I
• 1:47:56
  understand, like it's not one's a hatred, but that like deep
• 1:48:00
  intense emotion you can only get if a parental unit is supposed
• 1:48:06
  to take care of you. You can only get that feeling if
• 1:48:10
  you don't, you're not being nurtured the way you're missing
• 1:48:14
  a piece of upbringing that is core to being a functioning
• 1:48:18
  human. I'd say.
• 1:48:19
  Not to say that we're not functioning, but I.
• 1:48:21
  Would say that I think the like what I was saying about
• 1:48:25
  examining my relationship, whether it's because then it's
• 1:48:27
  like, well, why did I become an addict?
• 1:48:31
  Why did I behave the way I behaved?
• 1:48:33
  Why did I have the anger I had? And then it's like, you know, I
• 1:48:37
  just, I just got to start thinking about this stuff,
• 1:48:41
  right? And then she died and I was
• 1:48:42
  like, fuck. Did you want to confront her
• 1:48:45
  about? It I wish I did.
• 1:48:47
  I'm glad I didn't. I'll say that I wish I did for
• 1:48:50
  myself. I'm glad I didn't for her,
• 1:48:53
  because she was dying. She's still my mother, you know?
• 1:48:56
  I don't. I don't think anyone on their
• 1:48:57
  deathbed. Anyone, I don't think anyone in
• 1:49:01
  the world on their deathbed that hasn't done something
• 1:49:05
  horrendous, violent or whatever deserves to be put on the spot.
• 1:49:10
  You've alluded to horrendous and violent, but I get your point.
• 1:49:14
  Yeah, but you know what I mean? Like I'm, I'm talking like
• 1:49:17
  extreme go to go to jail kind of violence.
• 1:49:21
  I just think, I think, you know, like Johnny was saying about his
• 1:49:24
  mom being she was indoctrinated. She didn't know herself.
• 1:49:29
  My mom similar right. I know she was raped when she
• 1:49:37
  was younger. She was working on a on like a
• 1:49:40
  prawn troller or something like in far north, far north
• 1:49:43
  Australia, like dot off Darwin, I think, and I think she was
• 1:49:46
  raped. I think, I don't know.
• 1:49:48
  She told me this, but also she was like a bit of a liar.
• 1:49:52
  So I just, it's, it's hard when it's hard when someone treats
• 1:49:55
  you a certain way for so long and then gives you a reason and,
• 1:49:59
  and there's all these other lies in between and you're like,
• 1:50:02
  well, I don't know, but I wouldn't doubt it.
• 1:50:06
  I mean, it was the 70s in Australia.
• 1:50:09
  She's a woman. So I mean already like what?
• 1:50:12
  One in three or even even worse is going to be a victim of
• 1:50:16
  sexual assault. Every every woman I know has at
• 1:50:20
  least one fucked story at least usually multiple, so I tend to
• 1:50:26
  believe her in in this case. And she was a woman in the 70s
• 1:50:35
  and then had a kid in the 80s with a chronically alcoholic guy
• 1:50:41
  like my dad who I'm close with now but I mean the catalyst for
• 1:50:47
  for their full split. Was she that already kind of
• 1:50:52
  separated and she left me with him for the day and she was
• 1:50:55
  calling him to try and come pick me up and he wasn't picking up
• 1:50:58
  the phone. And I think I was like 2 years
• 1:51:00
  old. And she went around to his house
• 1:51:03
  and him and his mate were passed out on the ground and I was a 2
• 1:51:06
  year old walking around the house.
• 1:51:08
  And so it's like there are all these traumas, right?
• 1:51:10
  That that create a problem. And it's like, I, you know,
• 1:51:15
  there are all these cliches out there and, and it, you feel
• 1:51:18
  tacky for saying them, but they're, they're cliches for a
• 1:51:21
  reason, right? And it's like hurt people hurt
• 1:51:23
  people. And it's so true.
• 1:51:26
  I spent a lot of my drinking years doing that outside of my
• 1:51:33
  family, you know, you know what I mean?
• 1:51:34
  Because I was so hell bent on not doing that in the house.
• 1:51:37
  So I became this like pretty abusive person outside of the
• 1:51:41
  house. And then that of course carried
• 1:51:44
  over several years into my sobriety.
• 1:51:47
  And it's something that I've like, obviously tried to come to
• 1:51:50
  grips with. I've talked, I've run into a
• 1:51:52
  bunch of people over the years and I'm like, hey, I'm sorry,
• 1:51:54
  I'm a different person now, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:51:56
  But I heard something on a podcast just recently that was
• 1:52:01
  like, I was like, Yep, so true. And it's like this other guy who
• 1:52:05
  was who was a drug addict and he was like, you know, you get
• 1:52:10
  clean, you get sober, you see these people who you fucked
• 1:52:13
  over, you apologize, but it's not their fault if they hate you
• 1:52:18
  and you have to accept it because you still fucked with
• 1:52:21
  them. You know what I mean?
• 1:52:23
  And so I think that's the thing with my mom, it's like she did
• 1:52:27
  so much fucked up shit that it's like, while I can accept the
• 1:52:32
  trauma that built up, you know, to her becoming that person, it
• 1:52:39
  sort of doesn't excuse it. And especially as I'm getting
• 1:52:41
  older and I'm reckoning with my own patterns of behavior and I'm
• 1:52:47
  like, well, I'm not transferring this onto my kids.
• 1:52:51
  How do you make sure you don't? Because it sounds pretty
• 1:52:55
  generational. Therapy.
• 1:52:58
  Lot of therapy. Yeah, that's the thing that
• 1:53:00
  particularly men have only recently followed with.
• 1:53:03
  Yeah, lots of lots of therapy and lots of reflecting on how
• 1:53:12
  I've been treated versus how I would want to be treated versus
• 1:53:16
  how I've treated people. It's good to be sober and be
• 1:53:19
  able to look back on, you know, however many years of like, just
• 1:53:24
  being an asshole to people, being drunk and being fucking
• 1:53:27
  asshole. What kind of being an asshole?
• 1:53:30
  Mean, like I was mean. I just think I was really mean
• 1:53:33
  to people. I think I could make people feel
• 1:53:35
  really small for no reason. And I think I thought at the
• 1:53:39
  time that that was like a gift because I was drunk.
• 1:53:44
  But it's a coping mechanism and it's coming from a place of
• 1:53:48
  insecurity. So it's like, before you can
• 1:53:52
  fuck with me, I'll fuck with you.
• 1:53:54
  You know what? I.
• 1:53:55
  Mean our little misunderstanding.
• 1:53:57
  No, you don't remember it. You weren't drinking.
• 1:54:00
  Were you Drinking? How long you been sober?
• 1:54:02
  10 years. 10 years what month? March 7th.
• 1:54:06
  Maybe you weren't drinking. Maybe.
• 1:54:07
  Where were we? We were on tour, Stray in
• 1:54:10
  Europe. I mean, it was just a small, it
• 1:54:12
  was a small thing. It was in Europe.
• 1:54:14
  It was in. Europe.
• 1:54:15
  You said something to me and I hadn't heard you and I didn't
• 1:54:19
  reply and you went into the green room and what the fuck is
• 1:54:23
  your dramas problem? No.
• 1:54:25
  Is that what happened? It is, but slightly different.
• 1:54:28
  You were, you were talking. The reason why you didn't hear
• 1:54:32
  me is because you were having a fucking conversation.
• 1:54:35
  I didn't realize. And the person you were talking
• 1:54:38
  with had gone past me already. Yeah, I said something to you.
• 1:54:42
  You carried on your conversation and you, you were like, get the
• 1:54:47
  fuck out of here. And I thought you were talking
• 1:54:50
  to me. Oh wow, but.
• 1:54:51
  There was someone backstage or someone on the bus that you were
• 1:54:54
  like trying to get off the fucking bus.
• 1:54:57
  And I remember being like, what the fuck?
• 1:54:58
  I went inside and I was like, what the fuck is up with your
• 1:55:01
  drama? I.
• 1:55:02
  Remember like nothing. 'S up.
• 1:55:04
  That makes more fucking sense. Yeah, that's funny as fuck.
• 1:55:07
  Yeah, I just remember that now. Yeah, that was wild.
• 1:55:09
  And you were like, mate, no, I wasn't.
• 1:55:11
  Even talking to you and I was like I.
• 1:55:12
  Was like, oh sweet, yeah. It was like my second straight
• 1:55:17
  tour. You're the headliner.
• 1:55:18
  Like, am I going to act like that?
• 1:55:19
  I mean, fucking be sick if I was.
• 1:55:22
  Unfortunately it's fucking first band on just coming in and what
• 1:55:27
  the get the fuck off this bus headliner old.
• 1:55:31
  Old man, small bladder. Oh.
• 1:55:33
  Bro tell me about it, I'm pissing in the fucking night and
• 1:55:36
  shit. It's a little weird.
• 1:55:38
  Bowie was, so he still wets the bed if he drinks too much water,
• 1:55:43
  but he was wetting the bed up until like a year ago no matter
• 1:55:47
  what. And so for years, nine years,
• 1:55:51
  I've been drinking heaps of water before bed so I would get
• 1:55:55
  up on his bladder schedule. That's cute.
• 1:55:59
  Leave that in the episode. Simon, we just had a piss break.
• 1:56:02
  Here's a problem. You wrote the fucking lyrics.
• 1:56:04
  I did. That's the fucking problem.
• 1:56:06
  You guys fucked up here. You got the small logo here.
• 1:56:09
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:56:10
  Give. Johnny the small logo, I'm the
• 1:56:12
  graphic. Johnny's got the small fucking
• 1:56:14
  logo. Yeah, because I've got a lot on
• 1:56:16
  the fucking on the lyrics. I thought you'd let this
• 1:56:19
  motherfucker write some lyrics, but apparently not.
• 1:56:22
  No greedy with my spot in the band, I'm afraid.
• 1:56:25
  I've been thinking about that though, and I'm like, what if
• 1:56:27
  you just Same with Dan, Send me your, you know, lyrics and then
• 1:56:32
  I can. Look at that, it's happening.
• 1:56:33
  Yeah, the look of the look in your eyes.
• 1:56:35
  No, I'm happy with it. This is good this.
• 1:56:37
  Yeah, he's been thinking about that.
• 1:56:38
  Because I honestly, I enjoy using other people's like, well,
• 1:56:42
  material to pull things out of. It's the the first album we've
• 1:56:45
  done with Johnny first time we're done with you.
• 1:56:48
  And Dan and I already spoke and we spoke, I think while we're
• 1:56:51
  recording, I think the next one will be more collaborative.
• 1:56:56
  And Johnny and Dan in the studio is like funny for me because
• 1:57:01
  they are fucking nerds and they're loving it.
• 1:57:04
  And I could see them loving it. And I was like, this is
• 1:57:07
  excellent. And so.
• 1:57:08
  Yeah. All right, you heard it here
• 1:57:10
  first. I mean, you'll just be CC on the
• 1:57:12
  fucking e-mail. Yeah, that is.
• 1:57:14
  Yeah, Lyric. There's a lyrics e-mail.
• 1:57:16
  It's. Yeah, it just says lyrics.
• 1:57:18
  It says Amity Lyrics, 25 is what the e-mail said.
• 1:57:21
  There we go. Russian hackers.
• 1:57:23
  Oh, I got one lyric. I need to know a town of war.
• 1:57:26
  Yep. My favorite song on the record,
• 1:57:28
  by the way. Still stuck to the skin.
• 1:57:29
  Same hate, same sin. Yes.
• 1:57:32
  What does that mean? This that song is like a another
• 1:57:37
  take on. I don't even know the name of
• 1:57:39
  the song. It's off misery.
• 1:57:41
  It's like. You wrote it.
• 1:57:43
  Yeah, I know. But I'm like, it's like a, it's
• 1:57:46
  the second part of the this other song from Misery.
• 1:57:49
  And it's like eternal war is very much a back and forth with
• 1:57:55
  me and me, you know what I mean? And it's like still stuck to the
• 1:57:59
  skin. Same hate, same sin is like the
• 1:58:03
  same things that I've always dealt with are still there and
• 1:58:10
  because of my religious upbringing I'm always going to
• 1:58:12
  reference Christianity and my relationship to things.
• 1:58:16
  They are good branding. They do.
• 1:58:18
  They have great branding and bodes well.
• 1:58:20
  That's yeah, that's, that's that's what it is.
• 1:58:23
  It's like, it's like the the thing you can't get rid of that
• 1:58:26
  is a piece of yourself. Whenever there's a line I really
• 1:58:28
  like, I'm like, fuck, does that mean I'm just a drummer?
• 1:58:31
  I don't really fucking know. I got a thumb bit.
• 1:58:33
  You ready for a thumb bit? Sure all.
• 1:58:35
  Let's talk about dead mums. Yes, we're going to do a thumb
• 1:58:38
  bit. That sounds horrible, but by
• 1:58:41
  their own admission, UK versus Australian translation, I think
• 1:58:45
  it'd be funny. I've got to rephrase it because
• 1:58:47
  I thought you were Australian. I'm going to say a word.
• 1:58:50
  That's mine. Yes.
• 1:58:51
  And you're going to guess what it is.
• 1:58:52
  I think you might know most of them, but now we have an
• 1:58:55
  American. It's going to be good.
• 1:58:56
  It's going to be good. OK, So we're going to.
• 1:58:58
  Yeah. We'll just do this to you.
• 1:59:00
  I'll say the word and I'll say it in a sentence.
• 1:59:03
  You're going to guess what it is, then I'm going to say what
• 1:59:06
  it is. OK.
• 1:59:08
  And you were going to tell me if there's an Australian equivalent
• 1:59:10
  for it? Oh, there we go.
• 1:59:11
  OK, the word chippy, Right, UK And I would say I'm going to the
• 1:59:16
  chippy. Where am I going?
• 1:59:18
  Sounds like the bathroom. OK, now tell me, do you know
• 1:59:22
  what the chippy is? You don't have to tell me
• 1:59:24
  exactly. Is it the fish and chip shop?
• 1:59:26
  It is. Yeah, but we would call a chippy
• 1:59:29
  a Carpenter. A Carpenter.
• 1:59:31
  Yeah, yeah. What would be a chippy?
• 1:59:33
  So what would you call a fish and chip shop?
• 1:59:35
  Fish and chip shop. That's not what I have here.
• 1:59:37
  What? Have you got there?
• 1:59:39
  The show? No, no.
• 1:59:43
  Well, I hope these aren't all as bad as this.
• 1:59:45
  If someone is a plonker, what are they?
• 1:59:51
  A dumb ass. Pretty fucking good.
• 1:59:53
  You're correct, plonker. You got a word, wanker.
• 1:59:56
  Now we got wanker. That's ours actually.
• 1:59:58
  You can't have that. There is one in Australia.
• 2:00:02
  It's an old school 1. Old school 1 drongo.
• 2:00:05
  Oh yeah, I wouldn't have thought of that.
• 2:00:07
  But that is 1 John. I have.
• 2:00:08
  I have used that. Yeah, I know.
• 2:00:10
  Yeah, Australians use it all the time.
• 2:00:12
  So why am I doing this? This is supposed to be a fun
• 2:00:14
  bit. You know what?
• 2:00:15
  I've toured. I've toured the world for so
• 2:00:17
  long that it's been fucking YEAH sucked out of me.
• 2:00:20
  I try so hard to just keep it with me, like I'll deliberately
• 2:00:23
  say UK words when I'm here. Yeah, I'm fucking stick the
• 2:00:26
  fucking Union Jack in the ground, not in a.
• 2:00:29
  Racist way. I think you know what, We
• 2:00:31
  started touring the world in 2010, and if we spoke like that
• 2:00:34
  to Americans back then, like now, I mean, talking to Johnny,
• 2:00:37
  we don't really have to turn it down when we talk too fast.
• 2:00:41
  Johnny and Joe are just like, I don't know, man.
• 2:00:43
  Madison's the same, yeah. If someone's absolutely
• 2:00:46
  knackered, what are they? I think that means they're
• 2:00:50
  drunk. Tired.
• 2:00:53
  Tired. Yeah, I'm fucking knackered.
• 2:00:55
  Yeah, I'm fucking knackered. Have you?
• 2:00:57
  Have you had me say that before? Yeah.
• 2:00:59
  You got a different word for that.
• 2:01:00
  Beat. I've got buggered Oh.
• 2:01:02
  We've got buggered, yeah. Australians buggered.
• 2:01:05
  Yeah, I'm buggered. Which in the UK would mean anal
• 2:01:08
  sex. Yeah, but if you say bugger off,
• 2:01:10
  it means fuck off like it's anal sex.
• 2:01:12
  So if you're buggered it means you've been fucked.
• 2:01:14
  It certainly does, yes. OK, not going as well as I
• 2:01:18
  thought it would, but it might be entertaining, right?
• 2:01:22
  If something's dodgy, what is it?
• 2:01:24
  That's like sketchy, I think, yeah.
• 2:01:26
  It is. You've got a word for that.
• 2:01:28
  Just hit me. Shonky.
• 2:01:31
  Shonky. Yeah, Shonky would be like if
• 2:01:34
  something's not put together properly.
• 2:01:35
  Yeah, that'd be dodgy. Yeah, but dodgy could be like
• 2:01:38
  that. Well, I've got something shonky
• 2:01:39
  up here looking for something. Shonky there's.
• 2:01:42
  Nothing chunky, nothing chunky, nothing too much.
• 2:01:44
  Well, fucking Google's done me dirty here, but I'm nipping to
• 2:01:48
  the loo. What does that mean?
• 2:01:51
  Well, yeah, like going to the bathroom.
• 2:01:53
  Going to the bathroom. Taking a line of cost.
• 2:01:55
  Kind of the giveaway. Not anymore, sadly.
• 2:01:59
  You got a different word for Lou.
• 2:02:02
  Donny. Donny asked.
• 2:02:04
  And Donny was what we were looking for in this completely
• 2:02:07
  dog shit segment. Well it's dog shit.
• 2:02:10
  I feel like Google AI is done you dirty here it.
• 2:02:13
  Was actually full blown a page, but it could have been written
• 2:02:16
  by AII. Think you can't tell anymore?
• 2:02:19
  AI is writing its own code with its own pages and.
• 2:02:21
  Then but then I I there was about 50 of them and I picked
• 2:02:24
  the ones that I'm pretty. Sure, I'd heard.
• 2:02:26
  I mean they're. All I've heard Donny that was
• 2:02:28
  good, Shonky was good. Yeah, shonky.
• 2:02:30
  I haven't heard since I was like fucking 10.
• 2:02:32
  Buggered was from the website, so like, you know that one.
• 2:02:35
  And Drongo, I've heard a million times.
• 2:02:37
  You're fucking drongo. Yeah, but buggered is one of
• 2:02:39
  those cutesy words that's actually really fucked up to
• 2:02:41
  say. Yeah, like 'cause it does mean
• 2:02:43
  exactly. What bugger me literally means
• 2:02:46
  fuck me in the ass. Yeah, and when you say I'm
• 2:02:49
  buggered you, you're saying I've been fucked.
• 2:02:51
  I've been fucked in the ass. Yeah.
• 2:02:53
  Which, you know, shouldn't really be derogatory.
• 2:02:56
  No, but some people fuck up the ass.
• 2:02:57
  That's it. Australia is like that.
• 2:02:59
  All right, all right. We're just fucking freestyle
• 2:03:02
  now, OK. What's the most shonky dunny
• 2:03:04
  you've been to on tour? Italy, 100% Italy.
• 2:03:08
  You know when they say when you start touring over in Europe and
• 2:03:12
  you know, every band does this, they're trying to say they're
• 2:03:14
  playing in, in Milan, for example, you know, and, and
• 2:03:17
  you're not, you're playing 45 minutes outside.
• 2:03:21
  Yeah, out. And you're not even outside of
• 2:03:22
  Milan. You're outside of the district
• 2:03:24
  of Milan. So there's the edge of Milan and
• 2:03:27
  then you're further than that. So we pull up.
• 2:03:30
  Everyone's like hungover, like obviously this is like 2009 or
• 2:03:35
  10, I can't remember. And Oh no, 2011, sorry.
• 2:03:39
  With Deez Nuts, with Louie Knox, like a rapper, a hardcore band
• 2:03:43
  and a fucking emo metal core band all together.
• 2:03:47
  And I can't remember the other band.
• 2:03:50
  They're really good. Real Bad was in it before he was
• 2:03:52
  in Deez Nuts. Anyway, we get there and it's my
• 2:03:56
  friend Todd and I, Louie Knox. RIP.
• 2:03:59
  Yep RIP good man, great man. We went like needed the shit and
• 2:04:05
  we go into the dunny and the dunny is 2 metal greats where
• 2:04:13
  your feet are like like grip and a hole and not like a big hole
• 2:04:20
  like a little like a slippery dip for your shit.
• 2:04:23
  Yeah, it's just like a slit. Yeah, no and no doors.
• 2:04:26
  And up and shit. So there's like 5-5 shit holes,
• 2:04:30
  like actual shit holes. Now I don't, I don't know if
• 2:04:33
  it's because same experience every time we go to Italy.
• 2:04:36
  I don't know if that's just like when they build a venue, they're
• 2:04:39
  like, let's put a fucking shit toilet in there, or if that's
• 2:04:42
  normal in Italy. I don't know.
• 2:04:43
  But you have to stand up to shit.
• 2:04:45
  Yeah, Chunky. A chunky, chunky Donnie.
• 2:04:47
  Yeah, I don't know. I don't.
• 2:04:48
  It's worse than prison like you have to don't get.
• 2:04:52
  Fucked up the ass in the venue in Milan.
• 2:04:55
  Says who? Buggered.
• 2:04:57
  You don't get buggered. A bit buggering going on.
• 2:05:02
  I'm sure there's been some buggering going on.
• 2:05:04
  Consensual buggering. How many tours have you done?
• 2:05:06
  Like worldwide? Worldwide.
• 2:05:08
  I don't I really. Like have you been, have you
• 2:05:11
  been to Australia before this? No, no, this is my first trip
• 2:05:14
  to. Australia and you've.
• 2:05:15
  Been to the Hang on, let me correct that.
• 2:05:17
  That's just second trip to. Australia Well, first tour.
• 2:05:19
  Yeah, we flew him out for the Let the Ocean Take me to it
• 2:05:22
  because we were not confident Aaron could do the whole thing.
• 2:05:26
  So you were just there. He was there.
• 2:05:27
  He was in every city. Just in case, yeah.
• 2:05:30
  Did Aaron know? No.
• 2:05:32
  You were just flew in and you were in the hotel somewhere just
• 2:05:36
  waiting on the call. Separate, but waiting on the
• 2:05:39
  call, yeah. And he didn't know.
• 2:05:41
  Fuck me. Did you pay him for that?
• 2:05:42
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:05:43
  Fucking sick. That's a fucking dream job.
• 2:05:46
  Yes, we did. Being being on fucking call.
• 2:05:48
  That's sick. Have you been to the UK?
• 2:05:50
  Oh. Yeah, yeah, in my last band.
• 2:05:53
  And Europe, I imagine. And Europe?
• 2:05:54
  Yeah, mainland. Anyway, you haven't been yet.
• 2:05:57
  South Asia. I've only, I've only been there
• 2:06:02
  to surf. We've been trying to.
• 2:06:03
  Go. You haven't played there.
• 2:06:05
  It's the one thing I miss about being in a band.
• 2:06:07
  Yeah, yeah. Southeast Asia tours.
• 2:06:09
  I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying.
• 2:06:12
  I. Haven't been to Japan either, I
• 2:06:14
  don't know if that's the same. Area still technically, yeah.
• 2:06:17
  Asia, Asia. Asia.
• 2:06:19
  Just Asia, Asian. You want to chime in?
• 2:06:22
  Just Asia. That would be the.
• 2:06:23
  Correct way, just Asia confirmed.
• 2:06:25
  Yeah, right. Confirmed Like South Asian is
• 2:06:27
  like Indian in India, South Asia.
• 2:06:30
  No, I think India has its own S to.
• 2:06:33
  Like, wow. Thai, Yeah.
• 2:06:35
  That's Southeast Asia, yeah. Yeah.
• 2:06:36
  So you just. Haven't confirmed but.
• 2:06:39
  I live in Oceana. It's like this.
• 2:06:42
  This is like. That the ocean Oceana take me.
• 2:06:44
  Yeah, it's a joke. There's a good one now.
• 2:06:46
  He's so. So unhappy.
• 2:06:49
  But anyway, you got this tour coming up.
• 2:06:52
  Yeah. What they don't know, there is a
• 2:06:56
  cut. I know they don't know.
• 2:06:58
  Now they know because you I come in with this to end the podcast
• 2:07:03
  and now you're laughing about it.
• 2:07:04
  No, I'm not. Gonna say I hope you have a
• 2:07:06
  lovely tour. So it continues to go well with
• 2:07:09
  him. Yeah.
• 2:07:09
  Do you drink at all? At home I'll have you know some
• 2:07:13
  drinks here and there with my partner.
• 2:07:15
  I've seen him have two. I've seen him have two beers.
• 2:07:17
  Keep your fucking keep your eyes on.
• 2:07:19
  It. Yeah, He had a couple of beers
• 2:07:20
  with Dan for his birthday. That's true, yeah.
• 2:07:22
  Because that was like before the tour started, but.
• 2:07:24
  Yeah, Dan, Dan will get drunk like four or five times a year,
• 2:07:28
  but he fuck, he does it. Yeah, I'm, I'm little and often.
• 2:07:32
  No, I'm often and little. What's the whatever you get it.
• 2:07:36
  I like, I'll binge. I'll binge drink like once a
• 2:07:39
  month. Yeah, perfect.
• 2:07:40
  So just do it to the point where the next day I'm like, I'm not
• 2:07:43
  doing that ever again. And then it comes back I'm
• 2:07:45
  pretty good at. Look, not everyone has a problem
• 2:07:47
  with it. You.
• 2:07:48
  Know many many other problems. Well, I wish you the best guys.
• 2:07:52
  Thanks for coming. I really appreciate you coming.
• 2:07:54
  We really just fucking rambled but it was good.
• 2:07:58
  My segment fucking flopped. Trying so hard to make cool
• 2:08:01
  segments. It fucking flopped.
• 2:08:03
  Anyway, I love you. It's been fucking good to hang
• 2:08:06
  out and seeing you in fucking years.
• 2:08:08
  Thanks guys.