Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #135: Gill1918 presents Sammy Dabbs "Intermediate Hurdles Part 1" from Tampa Bay/USF Clinic

Transcript

#135: Gill1918 presents Sammy Dabbs "Intermediate Hurdles Part 1" from Tampa Bay/USF Clinic · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Gill 1918 Project, a podcast series by
• 0:03
  coaches, for coaches powered by Gill Athletics.
• 0:06
  Think of this as the Ted Talks of track and field coaching.
• 0:09
  Short, insightful, and packed with valuable strategies to help
• 0:12
  you grow as a coach. We'll bring in the once a year
• 0:15
  track clinic straight to your ears daily.
• 0:17
  Interested in creating your own episode?
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  Everyone's welcome to participate.
• 0:21
  Check out the show notes below For more information.
• 0:23
  Now let's get into today's topic.
• 0:27
  All right, guys and gals, thanks for your patience here.
• 0:31
  This state's really cool. I know you know that because
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  you're mostly from here, right? But this is one of the very few
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  states that instead of the 300 hurdles for high school, we do
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  400 hurdles. Can you name?
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  The other states, Missouri. Iowa.
• 0:47
  Iowa. Come on, there's a famous
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  jersey. They're one of the originals.
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  New York and New York, very good.
• 0:57
  About a year ago for the podcast, I interviewed a high
• 1:00
  school coach from each state, even Washington, DC.
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  So 51 interviews where we interviewed about their state
• 1:07
  meet. So how did you qualify to that
• 1:09
  state meet? What events do you do for that
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  state meet? Where is it held, things like
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  that. So if you're interested in kind
• 1:15
  of like how state meets and how you maybe you want to affect
• 1:17
  change here in Florida or for whatever school you are, you
• 1:20
  might want to go through and listen to those.
• 1:21
  Some really fascinating. We do some crazy things.
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  You mentioned Iowa 7 relays at the state meet.
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  How many do we have here? We got 3-4 by 8.
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  We do have 4 by 8. So we got 3 the the
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  traditionals, 4 by 1, 4x4 right, 4 by 8.
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  There's shuttle hurdle relays in two different states.
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  There's four by eights or Sprint medleys.
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  It's amazing what's going on in 100 percent, 100% how?
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  Many. States have we're up to about
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  22. How many states have hammer?
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  None 01. Really.
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  What state? California.
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  Oh, they have a culture of it, but it's not there.
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  I wish. Texas, Arizona, you're up in the
• 2:01
  right area. What state did you say?
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  I'm sorry, You're you're close. Rhode Island, our smallest
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  state, is the one state that has it for the for the state
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  meeting. Isn't that amazing?
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  That's awesome. Florida's one of the new javelin
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  states. Yeah.
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  Thanks for asking. What?
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  I did not pay him to do that at all.
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  Yeah, I appreciate that. I appreciate you just not doing
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  cash in advance. Thank you for that.
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  The Gil Connections podcast, we've been around since about
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  January of 2020. So we started before COVID and
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  we kind of do 2 formats every Monday we do a long form where
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  we invite a coach mainly from around the country, all levels,
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  middle school, high school, college, D1, JUCO, D2D3 Pro.
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  We have them all and really dive deep into how to did you get
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  into track and field? How did you get into coaching?
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  Why did you go to this place? Who were your mentors?
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  What did they teach you? What are some lessons learned
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  and successes we've had there? We don't get into what was
• 3:03
  there. If they were an athlete like
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  Dwight, I don't get into what their PRS are because I don't
• 3:07
  care. Your PR doesn't define you as a
• 3:09
  coach. In fact, we've had many coaches
• 3:11
  on the podcast that were not athletes.
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  We had some that didn't do track at all until they started
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  getting into the sport later in college and after college.
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  We've had plenty of people. It's amazing to me.
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  This. I like to, you know, the show
• 3:24
  Mythbusters, one of my favorite shows.
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  I kind of like to do that with coaching.
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  Like, what's 1 of the myths? That high school coaches can't
• 3:29
  coach college. Oh, my God.
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  All the time. Yeah.
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  You don't recruit. You do all this stuff.
• 3:34
  Let me tell you how many. I'm doing air quotes here big
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  time. Coaches started out as high
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  school coaches. Chris Johnson, head coach of
• 3:42
  Arkansas. Yeah.
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  High school coach. OK, So what you're doing as a
• 3:46
  high school coach is fundamental to what we're doing in track and
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  field, right? So every Monday, long form and
• 3:53
  then most Tuesdays through Sunday, it's called the Gil 1918
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  Project, same podcast. They're 10 to 30 minute podcast
• 3:59
  that delve into it's kind of the Ted talks of track and field
• 4:02
  podcast. So there'll be some XS and OS.
• 4:04
  We've had amazing coaches on there talking about how to do
• 4:06
  the high jump better, how to coach long jump, things like
• 4:08
  that, but also culture, how to recruit pole vaulters for your
• 4:12
  team. This high school coach Dave
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  Emiot up in Michigan. Great talk on how do you get
• 4:17
  more athletes to your team? You know something about that,
• 4:19
  Mister? You went from 15 athletes on his
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  track team to 200. That's the kind you need to do a
• 4:24
  talk. How do you do?
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  That's growth, man. We need to know more about that
• 4:28
  and that's what we do Tuesday through Sunday.
• 4:29
  So you can find it on any podcast app.
• 4:32
  If you have an Apple phone, you have Apple podcast on your phone
• 4:34
  right now. If you're on Android, you
• 4:36
  probably have Spotify. Those are the 2 main ones.
• 4:39
  You can find it on YouTube. So if you go to youtube.com/gail
• 4:42
  Athletics, all the interviews are there.
• 4:44
  And then we just started. Who has anybody heard of Twitch?
• 4:47
  Yeah, only my youngest. OK, well, pretty young.
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  You're progressive, man. I appreciate that.
• 4:51
  twitch.tv/gail Athletics, we run all those videos 24 hours a day,
• 4:55
  seven days a week. So you get wake up at 2:00 AM,
• 4:59
  try to go back to sleep, go listen to some of the podcasts.
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  One day you'll listen to Sammy's because he's going to be on
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  there. So let's transition that.
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  This is so awesome that you guys do foreign hurdles there and
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  this guy has done a lot and you've got to plan come up not
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  guessing what Vince talked to us yesterday.
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  You've got to plan what you're doing, the long hurdles and he's
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  going to give us a lot of great info.
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  So help me. Welcome back to the stage.
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  Why, he's wonderful, Mr. Sammy dabs.
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  Appreciate that introduction this on there we go that on put
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  the volume up there we go. Appreciate that intro Mike.
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  All right, 400 hurdles. I'll be very transparent.
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  I hated the 400 hurdles as a college coach.
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  I'm just going to be real. I did not my college career, My
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  coaching career started in college and I was a 110 hurtler
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  who did the 400 hurdles. I didn't like it and as soon as
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  I could get out of it, I did. And once I started coaching, I
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  coached it. But then I had a really good
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  guy. I think we got US #2 made under
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  20 team. I was like OK, it's kind of
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  cool, but I still don't like it. And then I started working with
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  Post Collegiate and 2016. I was about to leave Post
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  Collegiate coaching alone and a young lady in June was like, I'm
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  here coach. And I forgot the conversation I
• 6:40
  had in Austin in March that I said I would coach her when she
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  came home after the season. That young lady is who I have up
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  on the screen, her profile that is Melissa Gonzalez.
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  All right. She finished up her career at
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  Texas in 2016 and this were these were her numbers, her best
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  time that season, 5795. And numbers like these are not
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  the numbers that say, hey, I'm going to keep running track.
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  But she knew something within herself that said I got
• 7:21
  something left. And so knowing what she did in
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  high school, she was really good coming out of high school.
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  She was a 58 second 400 hurdler coming out of high school.
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  So year one, I said we have to change all of this.
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  Coach Anderson said something yesterday, really profound.
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  How often do you see her running anything outside of the 400
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  hurdles or 4 by 4? Kind of gets boring, all right?
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  And that's one of the problems we have with 400 Hurtlers, 300
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  Hurtlers, they don't have a profile for anything else
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  outside of that event. You have to give them some
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  variety. This is year one post collegiate
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  1st 5 races. Look at what we started, 100
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  hurdles, put her back in that 200 meters, 100 meters, 100
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  hurdles, 400 hurdles, I mean 400 meters, 200 meters.
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  So she ran 6 races outside of the 400 hurdles before she ran
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  her first 400 hurdle race with me post collegiately.
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  All right, nobody thought she was actually that fast 1210 24/5
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  that was unheard of. Now you get to the top this May,
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  7th, May, 1st of May, lifetime best, all right, goes back to
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  Columbia breakthrough 5795 the year before, 56 to the next
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  year, All right, Huge breakthrough at South American
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  Championships 1342. All right, so I'm talking about
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  race modeling. And one of the big things with
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  the 400 hurdles is sprinting. The reason I have Melissa
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  Gonzalez is because I first coached her younger sister to
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  the Texas State record and that held up for about 8 years in the
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  300 hurdles. All right, She ran 4081 Gatorade
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  Athlete of Texas, end up going to University of Miami 28 No
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  20/19/2018 ACC Champion in the 400 hurdles.
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  Younger sister, when I first got hurt, first thing I said, we got
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  to Sprint. Senior year, opening up indoors
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  at A&M, Blacktop, purple pants. We have to Sprint.
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  You have to be better as a sprinter.
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  That's priority number one if we're going to accomplish the
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  goals that you have set. So first week in January, she
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  opens up lifetime best see it right there on the screen. 24
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  five. I'll never forget a couple of
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  coaches who were recruiting her. Can I turn these down a little
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  bit? The lights?
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  A couple of coaches who were recruiting her was like, I had
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  no idea she was that fast. And I'm like, what were you
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  paying attention to? Same meet.
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  She ran 775 in the 60. She made the finals, ran the 60
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  finals, the hurdle final and the 200 final.
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  It's like it's pretty good for a 400 hurtler.
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  All right, We sprinted once we got through the season, race
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  modeling. I told her, I said if you're
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  going to break the state record, nobody's going to push you to do
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  it. You're going to do it by
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  yourself. So this was a 250 we did over
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  hurdles, all right? And again, you're going to see
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  me always posting splits. Race modeling, planning and
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  preparing. All right, The thing about
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  Samantha was this was the extent of how she could push herself in
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  practice. I mean, this is by yourself,
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  this is 17 steps, But I'm going to show the state record race
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  and you'll see it doesn't necessarily look like this, but
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  look at the breakdown of time, OK?
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  And so when I say the breakdown of time for 250 over hurdles.
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  For 250 over hurdles, she's running 34 seconds in practice.
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  All right, now I want you to remember the 24 five she ran
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  indoors. My theory about hurdlers is
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  whatever you can run for 200 flat, you can run 2 seconds
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  slower with hurdles. And with the formula that Vince
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  was talking about last night, the deviation between this flat
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  and the hurdles is pretty much the same.
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  So when she gets to the actual state record race, again, I told
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  her, nobody's going to push you to do this.
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  You're going to do it by yourself right here in the
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  bottom white top. All right, I put the 200 number
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  on the screen. If you notice though, the last
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  four hurdles are all 17 and if you look at that 250 she ran,
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  she pretty much ran the second-half of that race 17
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  steps. Samantha had an ability to
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  overcome huge mistakes and still run fast because she she
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  probably left 40.2 to 39, eight on the track with the effort.
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  Now again, the last part, these last four, they line up really
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  close to what that 250 look like.
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  All right. The other part is I talked about
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  her 200 flat number indoors 24526 four through the 1st 200
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  over the hurdles. I am a firm believer in coach
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  BG. We didn't have this conversation
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  about the 300 hurdles being the perfect setup for the 400
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  hurdles if done correctly. I look at it as similar.
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  So again, Vince talked about Sprint P, Rs.
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  I look at the 300 hurdles as literally your hurdle Sprint PR
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  if it's ran correctly. So I have in 2022 and now 2025,
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  I've had three high school boys run under 51 flat in the 400
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  hurdles in less than three 400 hurdle races.
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  They were in Texas. They spent the entire year doing
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  300 hurdles and literally we took the race model from the 300
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  hurdles, converted it to the 400 hurdles 50 point.
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  Coach, how you do that? They got to be fast.
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  Kia we had this year ran 50.82155 indoors, 766 in the 60
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  hurdles, 13 four in the 110 hurdles.
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  Speed is a prerequisite to running fast.
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  If you're paying any attention to the pros right now, our top
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  400 hurdlers in the world, look at their flat numbers.
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  They can run fast without the sticks.
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  So Samantha is the gateway that allowed me to get Melissa.
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  All right. So Melissa Gonzalez went from
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  not making it to the NCAA Championships in 2016 to being a
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  2019 World Championship qualifier.
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  A lot of people remember her at the 2021 Olympics when her
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  husband, who was at the time of Detroit Lions quarterback,
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  watched her run and got a chance to see his wife run at the
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  Olympics while he was in training camp.
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  David Blau. She then came back in 2022 World
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  Championships and her family has dual citizenship with Columbia.
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  Matter of fact, her brother's in town for the Tampa game
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  tomorrow, plays quarterback for New England.
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  Christian Gonzalez, so very athletic family.
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  All right, 400 hurdles. The reason I didn't like it is
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  because of the dedication you have to have to it.
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  All right, it is patient on both athlete and the coaches part.
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  All right, use your downtime. Use this offseason time, OK?
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  You can come up with a lot of metrics, more importantly,
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  stride patterns. Figure it out for each
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  individual. So be efficient, kill two birds
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  with one stone. And we're going to talk about
• 17:05
  how you can do different things at different times of the year,
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  especially in the fall to kind of get ahead and get some
• 17:12
  guesswork out of the way. All right.
• 17:19
  You can get valuable information from testing, random exercises
• 17:22
  that give you guidelines where your athletes model will come
• 17:25
  from. So talking about Trochantalen,
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  you're talking about from the hip down to the ankle.
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  If you've been doing work over Wicked, this information can be
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  put in to learn how many steps your athlete will potentially
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  take in between hurdles. What I'm saying is, if you
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  understand what their maximum stride length is, you can
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  literally start plugging that information in to start figuring
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  out what their strap meant will be.
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  What their, I'm sorry, strap pattern will be a formula I like
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  to use. And you can write this down if
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  the hurdles are 35 meters apart and it doesn't matter if they're
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  300 or 400 hurdles. All right, subtract 2 meters for
• 18:09
  take off, subtract 1m for landing, and that gives you 32
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  meters. Now, based on the stride pattern
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  that your athlete wants to run, you can divide that number into
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  that 32. So we'll take a whole number
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  like 16. And now the average stride in
• 18:34
  between is 2 meters per stride. So now if I'm trying to set up
• 18:40
  wickets and stuff like that, I can actually start to build my
• 18:46
  athlete up to where they need to be.
• 18:48
  So let's say you're trying to take an athlete from 14 to 13,
• 18:52
  that's a guy. Or you're trying to take a lady
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  from 17 to 16 through training, you can start to move the dial
• 19:03
  on the stride line and get them to open up a little bit.
• 19:07
  And once you see they can handle that, you can start moving to a
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  different stripe pattern. One thing else, we just talked
• 19:18
  about discounted hurdles yesterday, moving the hurdles
• 19:20
  in. I actually do use discounted
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  spacing sometime up to two feet when I'm doing my 300 and 400
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  hurdle work, especially if it's a real windy day.
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  So it's OK to cheat them in a little bit every now and then.
• 19:36
  Go your high school coach doing a 30m start test, make the
• 19:41
  hurdles continue running through 50 if you're talking about 300
• 19:44
  hurdles straight line, all right, because the goal is this.
• 19:48
  You want to try to see what your athlete is doing when they're
• 19:51
  not thinking. All right.
• 19:54
  I have a video from back when I was coaching in North Texas and
• 19:58
  I had a really good short hurdler who kept running inside
• 20:02
  of the take off at hurdle one and she kept crashing.
• 20:07
  When I did her actual video of going 20 meters every time her
• 20:13
  8th step was right on top of the take off without the hurdles.
• 20:18
  But as soon as I put a hurdle out after the 4th step she would
• 20:22
  see the hurdle and started working.
• 20:28
  So I'm like, we didn't have a problem, You're creating the
• 20:34
  problem, so we had to go back and fix it.
• 20:38
  So when there is no hurdles around, you can get a lot of
• 20:42
  information by just making sure you put some markers down on the
• 20:46
  track. The kids don't even know what
• 20:47
  the markers are there for. Come there, come there.
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  I need you to be sprinting as fast as you can.
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  All right? Comes at 43 meters, 45.
• 21:00
  Like I say, gives you an idea. You can film it.
• 21:03
  You go back and slow it down, they just run it.
• 21:07
  As a coach, you are the ones who are trying to figure out the
• 21:10
  metrics for your athlete. That makes sense.
• 21:21
  All right, same thing runs on the turn.
• 21:24
  The turn is probably the most difficult.
• 21:28
  Vince, would you say hurdle one to two is the hardest hurdle to
• 21:33
  keep your stride pattern? Yes, and it for the 400 hurdles.
• 21:43
  The reason is this, you have 45 meters of speed.
• 21:47
  Getting to that first one is OK if they're running a 13 stride
• 21:53
  pattern, if they're a lady who's going from 15 to 14, or if
• 21:56
  they've gone from 16 to 15, they have to run almost in a
• 22:01
  overstrided pattern and be really patient going from hurdle
• 22:06
  one to hurdle two. Once you've come off hurdle 2
• 22:08
  and you have 90 meters of speed at your back, 80 meters, I'm
• 22:11
  sorry, a speed at your back and you're into the straightaway at
• 22:15
  that point. Now you have momentum going.
• 22:18
  But that one to two, I've seen a lot of athletes struggle there
• 22:23
  because they want to naturally turn over and you can't.
• 22:27
  So again, cones down on the turn, same thing.
• 22:32
  Film the runs. If they're running from 1:50 is
• 22:35
  a door, put some cones in place just to kind of give you an idea
• 22:39
  so that when you start doing your 400 hurdle stuff, you've
• 22:43
  kind of got a little bit of the guesswork out of the way because
• 22:47
  the one thing you want to do is you want to take away them
• 22:52
  thinking and more so reacting. When you got an athlete who can
• 22:57
  think and run at the same time, covet that athlete hugged him
• 23:01
  because that does not happen very often.
• 23:11
  All right. The longer you work with
• 23:13
  athlete, the more you will see the body change over time and
• 23:17
  the changes you will see will cause the race model to change.
• 23:22
  They get faster, they get more fit and I'm going to show you
• 23:26
  during COVID what happened to us.
• 23:28
  All right, pay close attention when you start to see start to
• 23:32
  squeeze steps in. So a lot of times people say
• 23:36
  stutter step, sometimes they're trying to squeeze down to stay
• 23:41
  with the same pattern because they've gotten faster.
• 23:46
  As a coach, you have to start recognizing when that is
• 23:49
  happening. So, all right, the fear for most
• 23:53
  athletes haven't used the off leg with the hurdle moving at
• 23:56
  them at such a fast rate. They want to be efficient and
• 24:00
  they don't want to change. And as a coach, if they're going
• 24:04
  to do the short hurdles right now, I don't think we have an
• 24:07
  elite person finishing in the top three at worlds or the
• 24:12
  Olympics who is not using both legs.
• 24:16
  All right, you asked me. I noticed I pattern of the top
• 24:21
  four to five athletes on the men's and women's side in the
• 24:24
  United States right now. I have to study them because I
• 24:28
  got to compete against them. All right, Just well, as I know
• 24:32
  my athlete, I know when we got a headwind on a backstretch that's
• 24:38
  over 2.0 meters, what adjustments I have to make for
• 24:41
  my athlete in these situations. So we have to make sure in
• 24:45
  practice we prepare for this. 20, I think when I had Melissa,
• 25:00
  we started with a 16 step stripe out.
• 25:03
  We tried to go to 15 in 2019. It didn't work.
• 25:11
  We went back to 16. COVID hit 2020, we still tried
• 25:15
  to keep the 16. Then I started noticing, well,
• 25:20
  I'm beyond this. I can be very transparent.
• 25:23
  I noticed, but I didn't. Melissa's here on the top.
• 25:27
  Watch this next hurdle adjust. Yeah, she's right on top of it.
• 25:33
  And then she does it again right here.
• 25:35
  She's adjusting. I'm paying attention to it.
• 25:39
  Well, she has a training partner in practice right now.
• 25:42
  The intensity is up. She's squeezing down.
• 25:45
  We're OK. So this is doing COVID.
• 25:48
  We think we went from hurdle 2 to hurdle 10.
• 25:51
  No, it's coming out of COVID. It's 21, hurdle 2 to hurdle 10.
• 25:55
  Splits aren't looking bad. I'm under 4 at hurdle 8, which
• 25:59
  is one of my goals. Pattern is not looking bad at
• 26:02
  all. All right, the other young lady,
• 26:06
  that's Bianca Bookman. She's a 2021 Olympic Trials
• 26:09
  finalist in the 400 hurdles. Then we go to our first race.
• 26:20
  She's been going 16 right here. Watch what happens.
• 26:24
  The first six hurdles, left leg, she's been squeezing now
• 26:29
  squeezing down. I'm not paying attention.
• 26:32
  First me and his left leg through the 1st 6 hurdles.
• 26:36
  We didn't plan for it. We didn't.
• 26:39
  And the only reason you know that she's not running the
• 26:42
  pattern is because I'm telling you, and she did this almost
• 26:51
  perfectly. We didn't plan for it.
• 26:53
  Switch right here at 7:00. And then what technically should
• 26:57
  have happened, she got back on at 8:00.
• 26:59
  But at this point she's running in no man's land because none of
• 27:03
  this was prepared for. So when she got to the last
• 27:07
  three hurdles, she's just like, I'm just taking it how it's
• 27:10
  coming. I can't plan and prepare because
• 27:13
  we didn't practice this. So first thing, got the race.
• 27:18
  She's like, coach, I'm like, did you like it?
• 27:22
  Yeah, you want to keep it in. OK, let's put it in.
• 27:28
  But I wasn't paying attention when she was running up on
• 27:31
  hurdles and practice doing 16. I should have saw that sooner.
• 27:36
  All right, So as coaches take responsibility when you see some
• 27:40
  or you're not. Hey, that's something you have
• 27:43
  no idea how freeing that is to the athlete because now you we
• 27:52
  on the same page coach, we good because now, you know, took some
• 27:55
  of the pressure off of them. If you got the right
• 27:58
  relationship with them, they want to please you every time
• 28:00
  they step out there and those little moments like that keep
• 28:04
  them on your team versus making them an adversary.
• 28:08
  Hey gang, Mike Cunningham here. Hey, I hope you enjoyed this
• 28:11
  episode of the Guild 1918 Project series.
• 28:14
  It's really my mission, my passion to bring you massive
• 28:18
  amounts of value and I hope this one hit the mark.
• 28:21
  The Gill 1918 Project is really dependent on you if for you to
• 28:26
  build your own episode, to hear your voice, to have your voice
• 28:29
  heard you have something to say and teach other coaches out
• 28:33
  there. So please get a hold of me,
• 28:35
  e-mail, text message, Twitter, smoke signals, get a hold of me
• 28:40
  and let's help create your episode of the Gill 1918
• 28:43
  Project. Hope you enjoy today.
• 28:45
  They will see you tomorrow.