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In 10: The simple check that can sharpen your down cow plan · Talking Dairy

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Kiora and welcome to Talking Dairy in 10.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host Jack McGown from DairyNZ.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: So great to have you with us.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Down cows are something most farmers hope they won't deal with this carving.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: But if it happens, having a plan already sorted makes a big difference for the cow and for your team.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Today I'm joined by Mitch Cooper to talk through what to look for, when to act, and what a practical plan can look like on farm.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: We've covered this topic before in episode 82, where we went into prevention, early signs, and recovery in more detail.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Today we're focusing on what to do in the moment when a cow is down and needs your attention.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Mitch has some tips from his time and practice, so let's get into it.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, good to be back.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, to start us off, what do we mean by a down cow and what usually causes it?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it may seem simplistic, but as a cow that can't stand up, she's down for one reason or another.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: And people often associate it purely with metabolic issues, so purely with calcium issue or purely with magnesium issues.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: But in a percentage of these cows, it is something else.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: We used to see quite a few cows as vets that had really hard carvings and some nerve damage.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: She's had some injury through some other method or another, or she's just quite sick and sort of struggling, I think, metabolically to manage her normal day-to-day activities.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: But the vast majority of these cases happen around carving when cows are sort of under real pressure, transitioning from a dry cow to peat milk production is quite a significant energy strain.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: And even with good management, like most farms, we'll see a few cases.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Can you talk to us about what's normal and when should farmers start to kind of pay closer attention?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: The DairyNZ data that we've collected over the years indicates that around one and a half to three percent of cows is considered relatively normal.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: We would normally say that you should try and find a system that works for your farm, but we recommend introducing a pattern of two.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So 2% or more cows going down, two down cows in one day, obviously tailor that to your farm size a little bit.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Down cows two days in a row or not improving within two hours of treatment.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, trying to sort of find a consistent rule that works for your farm, but a rule of two is a is a generally pretty good rule of thumb.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it sounds like a rule of two thumbs works for most things apart from perhaps uh how many cows in a day.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we won't go deep into prevention today, but it makes a big difference.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Where should people go if they want to learn more about prevention?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, as you mentioned before, we talked to uh in a greater detail about this in a long podcast in episode 82.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we've also got a really good episode, episode 127, which talks a lot more about the transition cow management and diet and metabolics associated with that.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: So both of those are really good listens.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: We've got some good info on our DNZ website, all about sort of down cows and transition management and how to manage them, uh, which we've recently updated.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So those are great start points.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and if people have questions and they don't want to dig through the website, now we have Daisy, so they can just ask Daisy a question and she'll pull it out for them.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: So when a cow goes down, she's uncomfortable and stressed, and time really matters to her ability to recover and also how long she's distressed for.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: What should a simple practical plan cover?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: So first thing I'll say is having a good farm plan that everyone's consistent and everyone knows about is a really, really good first step.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: So in your sort of off-season dry cow season planning, uh, it's a really good time to make a solid farm plan.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing you've got to do is ideally figure out the issue.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, nine times out of ten, that is a metabolic issue.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: The cows are down, they've got that sort of classic S-shaped neck, often trying to stand, but they're just struggling a little bit, and that reflects the muscle weakness that comes with those metabolic issues.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, if it's not obvious or if she's not responding to treatment, maybe it is something else, and that's where it can be a little bit trickier.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So having a good check of all her legs and and her udder and just making sure everything else sort of looks obviously normal.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, if you're really struggling and she's not responding, getting a vet out is always a good call.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've diagnosed plenty of quite tricky down cows, and one of the big things to do as well is make sure that she has calved and that there's not a twin in there or there's something else going on in there, you'd be amazed at the amount of down cows I've been to where there's a second calf in there.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: So always worth making sure.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: You then want to have your sort of fairly consistent treatment options.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: You want to make sure you know sort of which bag you're using or which metabolic bag you're using when.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you want to make sure you're incorporating anti-inflammatories into all down cows, because even if they've only been down for a relatively short period of time, they get muscle damage quick.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it can just sort of help speed up that recovery.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then deciding on where she'll be managed.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: In the perfect world, you are moving down cows to a dedicated area where it's nice and warm, it's covered, you've got sort of lots of hay around them, you can easily get food and water to them depending on where they are on the farm and and depending on, I guess, the farm setup, you can manage them in paddock, and having a cow cover is really handy in that, and having the ability to bring as much food and water as she needs, because they'll go through huge amounts of food and water, you know, in a otherwise relatively healthy down cow.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Should a cover be used for every down cow?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like how how is their kind of metabolism and ability to regulate their heat affected?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: When they can't stand because of metabolic issues, they also can't shiver.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: So they can't do a good job of maintaining their body heat.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: So any cow that is down that hasn't immediately responded to treatment, and you know, your average metabolic down cow will respond really quickly.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Normally within sort of 10-15 minutes, they're they're up and about.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: So any cow that hasn't responded quite quickly to treatment should probably get a cow cover.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: And have you got any rules of thumb for moving a cow versus caring for her in place in the paddock?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if we're gonna move her, it's obviously a pretty big exercise.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: They're big animals to move.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: So using something like a tractor bucket or certainly not hip lifters and not by themselves, you know, they need sort of full body straps to be moving them.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And ideally they're moving under their own motion and you're just sort of helping support them.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Preference, I think, is if if it's going to be hard to move them, it's probably better to manage them in place.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: But if you've got a good strategy for moving them, then moving them to a dedicated place is is a better way to manage them.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: So what are some of the ways that farmers do move a cow that can't bear her own weight?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: So sh you know, you can't move her with the help of hip lifters.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: That it can be quite challenging, is is the short answer.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Tractors are pretty much always involved.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the bucket of a tractor is probably one of the better ways to do it.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: As long as you're obviously very careful that she's not going to sort of try and jump out mid-movement.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Very, very inclined to avoid the use of hip lifters where at all possible, and certainly not by themselves.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: So there needs to be ideally a a sling involved.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because the hip lifters can do a bit of damage themselves, can't they?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they can really damage the pelvis, and you can turn what was otherwise a a down cow that might have responded quite well to treatment into a down cow that's actually sustained quite a bit of injury um from hip lifting and now is going to be much harder to get up.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we've talked about moving or not moving.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: What about lifting and rolling?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's another tricky area to get right.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you want to be rolling, you know, ideally as often as practical on your farm, at least sort of three or four times a day, uh rolling onto different sides.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, almost whenever you're driving past the paddock or setting a dedicated routine to try and roll them onto each side as often as possible, they sustain quite a bit of muscle damage just from being down.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: So being able to roll them onto the side that's not been lay on for several hours can help just get a bit of blood flow back to that muscle and get that muscle moving again.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: You do want to be lifting them intermittently as well, not just rolling and lifting them using hip lifters and ideally a chest strap just to give them some ability to hopefully bear some weight on their own limbs for a little bit and get some time off those muscles on the ground.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: But you certainly never want to be lifting them in a way where you're sort of, you know, hanging them from the hip lifters and they can't maintain their own weight.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: You shouldn't really be moving her if she can't support her own weight, you know, ideally, unless it's in something like a tractor bucket.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a pretty clear cutoff if you are lifting them and they can't stand, you know, within a couple of minutes and and bear a decent amount of their own weight, you should stop lifting them.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: But continue with the rolling.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Keep rolling as much as possible.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you can, you know, try and lift multiple times a day.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's I think more in each episode of lifting, you want to limit how much time you're spending lifting and and sort of lifting them up by hip lifters, because again, it's not ideal.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Rolling a uh 450, 500 kilogram cow doesn't sound very easy, Mitch.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: How do you do that?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Ideally, multiple people.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: There is some technique to it as far as sort of getting their legs under and getting their head around.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um obviously it's really, really challenging on a paddock with any form of slope, so making sure they're in the appropriate direction to do so, and sometimes you have to be able to get their head around, you know, to face in a different direction first.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the general rule of thumb is that more people is easier.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen plenty of farmers do it by themselves.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's right.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: I've definitely done it myself.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: I believe there's a step-by-step on the DairyNZ website, like a visual.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's some good visual guidance if you're really stuck.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Next thing, how do you know if a cow is improving and when do you need to change tact?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: She should be brighter, she should be trying to stand.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the straightforward metabolic down cows will just get up quite quickly, or will get up and will maybe struggle to stay up a little bit, and and some follow-up treatment might be required.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: But you should see positive progress.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: With wearable data, obviously you you you've got a little bit more information on hand.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes you can get things like rumination rate and you can start seeing that improving, and you know, you've got sort of other metrics that you can look at, but they really should be trying to move under their own steam.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if they're not, that's when you need to reassess and that's when you probably need to call a vet, or that's when you may need to make decisions about euthanasia depending on how long they've been down and sort of processes for your farm and and her overall welfare.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, down cows, they need dedicated regular attention for good recovery, but you know, most of them are happening during carving when there's a lot of other work to do.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: What are some simple ways to keep track of what's been done, make sure she's getting the care that she's needing and that she doesn't fall to the bottom of the to-do list?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, obviously a pretty hectic time of year, lots going on, but you know, managing your down cows as a farm team is pretty critical to make sure everyone's on the same page and you know, with people coming on and off shifts and especially on big farms with lots of stuff, it can be really tricky.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Having something like a shared chat where you're posting photos and and updates and sort of letting everyone else know, you know, cow number two five four has just got this and this, and that can be a really, really good way to keep everyone else on the farm informed to make it really easy for the next person to pick up where you left off.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you've got some sort of electronic recording app and you've got good service over all the whole farm and and that's what your farm team has decided to use as a central point of information, that's also a really good point of information because obviously you're recording drugs and treatments and withholds and and these sorts of things as well.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes a combination of that and a group chat can be really, really good.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you're having uh farm staff meetings once or twice a day at that time of year, then that can be a good time to sort of debrief everyone on cows.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's a big difference in recovery outcomes depending on the level of care that's provided.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do if you know you can't provide that high level of care?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got a couple of options.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of guys have more than one farm property, and sometimes sharing the load of rostering between farms if you've got more than one and sort of focusing the bulk of that load on the farm where they might be having issues, and and hopefully it's just one farm where there are any issues can be really useful.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: So sharing stuff is is really handy.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: If you're really battling, that's often the time I think where vets end up getting the call.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes they can get involved and they can bring out their technicians and they can sort of just provide, you know, several other pairs of hands to try and help deal with a couple of down cows.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes they can be quite straightforward, you know, relatively easy, metabolic down cows that farmers simply are struggling to commit the time to.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, your vet and all their technician teams got the time to to help deal with them and just sort of help you get through the real crunch and reset.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: You obviously do want to be having those check-ins with your staff to make sure everything is going okay.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just really, really focusing on the people that are managing the cows is you know, really, really critical to get that right.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think one of the places, aside from being able to sort of step in and help, practically one of the things that vets can sometimes do for us is help with a difficult decision, you know, because we're very invested in in our cows and don't want to sometimes make that hard call.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember our vets sometimes being quite clear about where we should invest our time and that actually on this cow, you've put in enough time and you need to make the call to euthanize her.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and sometimes we have other diagnostic options available to us.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of fets have in clinic blood testing that gives them just a little, I think, a little bit more info that you can use to make those decisions.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it's certainly worthwhile when you're having trouble getting your bet involved.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: If farmers remember just a few things from today, what should they be, Mitch?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Have a plan.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure that everyone on your team knows the plan and that they've helped be part of ideally the making of that plan.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when everyone has been involved in the generation of that plan, they're often a lot more invested and, you know, want to get it right.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you act early.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: The quicker you can get to these down cows, the less muscle damage they get, the quicker and better they respond to treatment.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Use something like a pattern of two, you know, something that works for your farm and make sure that you are finding ways that, again, it's about sort of consistency with staff and consistency with how you're managing them.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Keeping good records, and that includes something like a farm WhatsApp group or something like that, is included in what I would define as records.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, everything needs to be recorded appropriately and and you know, especially when there's withholes involved, but is a quick, hey, this cow's had XYZ, that's a great system.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Reassessing them as often as you can.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that doesn't, you know, involve the whole process of rolling and lifting and and everything like that, but driving past, checking, is she doing okay, does she need more feed?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Does she need more water?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something I can do for her now, you know, as often as you can that really improves the outcomes?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And figuring out when to ask for help.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that is often part of your plan, you know, is having a sort of dedicated cutoff at which your staff are comfortable to say, hey, uh, you know, I'm not making much progress here, I need some help.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and whether that helps external, whether that helps more staff from the farm, you know, it's sort of again up to your farm plan as to how that goes.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: A huge thank you to Mitch for sharing his advice.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: The main thing is don't wait until you've got a down cow to figure out what to do.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: As Mitch said, having a plan already in place makes everything a lot easier when things get busy.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Good early care, regular checks, and clear communication make a big difference.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes the right call is knowing when to ask for help or when recovery isn't likely.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: We hope today's chat has given you a few practical things to take back on farm, whether that's checking your plan, your gear, or just getting the team on the same page.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: For the latest advice and any updates, head to the show notes and the Down Cow page.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Matewa.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: If you'd like to get connected with DariNZ's latest advice, research, tools, and resources, whether it's reading, scrolling, listening, or in person, you can visit DariNZ.co.nz forward slash get-connected, and don't forget to hit follow to keep up to date with our latest episodes.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: As always, if you have any feedback on this podcast or have some ideas for future topics or guests, please email us at talkingdairy at dairynz.co.nz.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening, and we'll catch you next time on Talking Dairy.