Latest / Success Story with Scott Clary / Paul James - Founder of DialHawk | From Brother's Garage to Multiple 7-Figure AI Businesses

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Paul James - Founder of DialHawk | From Brother's Garage to Multiple 7-Figure AI Businesses · Success Story with Scott Clary

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When I started off an SEO game, you could literally register an exact match domain by that.com,
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put no content on the site and it would literally rank.
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Some people don't just talk about growth. They build systems that force it. Paul James is one of those
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people from scaling brands to mastering influence. Paul has built a reputation for turning clarity
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into momentum. I grew up wanting to do music in several bands, but I always found myself in the
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bands being the person that's driving the business side of it. What I'm doing now, I think that
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really helped with me learning to nurture an audience. So many new developments started happening
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with AI, and it's been so exciting for me. So I've been experimenting a lot with that and
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actually evolving from just doing SEO to generate leads to now using faceless videos to generate
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leads. He understands that success isn't about hacks, it's about consistency, discipline,
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and doing the work when no one's watching. This conversation goes beyond surface level wins,
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into the mindset, decisions, and systems that actually move the needle.
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ChatGPT, you have to really train it to get the output that you want. Everyone knows about
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ChatGPT, that's not the secret. The sauce is how you train ChatGPT to do what you want it to do.
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Knowing how to control AI work for you instead of replacing you is going to be the best way
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to future proof your job right now. I think learning that you can figure things out on your own,
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actually doing is going to help you learn much faster.
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Paul, you've been in the SEO game since 2009. Yeah. So what about the 2009
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SEO playbook is still valid? What about that playbook is obsolete with AI and all the new
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marketing stuff that is available in 2025? That's 2009. That's a long time.
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It's a long time, yeah. It's kind of crazy because when I started off an SEO game,
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you could literally register an exact match domain, which means like, let's say you're trying to
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rank for like, I don't know, best podcast, studio microphone. You could literally buy that.com
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and then put no content on the site and it would literally rank. It's basic. Yeah. So
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I mean, it's kind of good. It's not like that. But it was nice when you're trying to like
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rank stuff and like, you know, whether it was going to be like an affiliate marketing type site
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or your own business, that was pretty cool. So that's changed a lot since then. You just can't
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just run and gun put stuff like that. But I would say a lot of like what stayed the same is like
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good content, trying to Google after all is like a business right. So their job is to a searcher
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comes. They need to solve their problem. They need to end their search ultimately and solve the
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problem for them. So if you can do that, that's usually through content providing good content
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that actually solves what they're looking to to solve. That is like something that hasn't really
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changed at all. And AI has made that a lot easier because now we have chat GPT. We have cloud.
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We have deep seek. And I mean, I use a combination of all the above for everything that I'm doing.
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Now helps with content. And then also I think like we have this whole like ethos of other things
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that fit in with the SEO now like social and you know, stuff like that like posting videos on social
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and shorts and all of that stuff can help play a role and is equally important I think.
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But at the end of the day, it's just about like are you solving the are you answering the question
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that the person is seeking? And it's interesting because if you go back 2009, like I know I know
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it's so funny how so many entrepreneurs like started their sort of their entrepreneurial journey
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with like SEO and making money on Google. And people that have now built like random companies
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in all these different industries at some point in their life. Like yeah, I was making like 10 grand
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a month with affiliate links on Google or something. Yeah, like I mean, there's like Bakker,
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Alex Bakker, some like the biggest people out there. Like I remember they were like doing SEO
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like right alongside me and now they're like running like big companies and stuff. It's it is kind
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of crazy to see that. Yeah, I just think it's very cool. And you know, a lot of people try to do
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different things like look for loopholes like backlinks and things like that and all that's great
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and does help. But at the end of the day, I mean, focusing on like content and and providing values
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going to be something that never is going to go away, you know, going back. I wanted to understand
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sort of where you came from that turned you into the person that you are today that has
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all these different interests and passions and skill sets and is still like an incredibly successful
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entrepreneur and builder. Thank you. I appreciate that. I think that it comes definitely from my
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roots. Like I grew up wanting to do music and was in several bands. But I always found myself in
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the bands being the person that was like kind of like driving the business side of it. So like
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I'm thinking about like how can we sell more CDs? How can we sell merch at shows? How can we
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get on bigger and better shows? And I remember like driving in a van touring, not even having gas
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to get to the next show. And I'm at the mall and you know, telling my bandmates, hey, we need to sell
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CDs. Like this is so we walk around with an iPod. That's super scrappy. Yeah, and be like, hey,
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can you listen to our song? And then people would listen and be like, hey, we got a CD. It's $5.
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No, obviously there's not really CDs anymore. But you know, that that's just always kind of been my
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my hustle is like I've always just found a way to like if I want something I'm going to find a
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way to get it. And as that move forward into what I'm doing now, I think that really helped with
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me learning to nurture an audience because I learned in the music industry, like everything comes
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back to like making people feel like they're part of something and like nurturing an audience.
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And that creativity and everything has just really helped with what I'm doing now, like whether
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it's doing YouTube or you know, finding brand sponsorships and things like that. Like it's it's
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been much more than just you know, just business, but making people feel like they're part of a
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community and stuff. I love that. Yeah. And also me as a person too, like I understand like I could do
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different things to scale differently. Like I could go get an office building and hire employees.
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But at the end of the day, the question I ask myself is like, what's the trade off for this going
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to be in order for me to make this happen? Like if I'm going to go and hire like five people and
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then I have to show up at an office every day, potentially manage these five people. Like what
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is that trade off going to be for my lifestyle? So I'm very much a lifestyle driven person and
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every decision I make when it comes to business, hobbies, anything is does this improve my lifestyle
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or does it hurt it because you know, money's great and all. But if it's going to like really
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hinder my lifestyle, I'm not going to take it. I'm not going to do it. So when did you move from
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music into building a business? Because 2009 was SEO. But I mean, you also had a successful exit
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and you built an actual say an actual company, like a more traditional company. So what was first?
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Let me walk you through the timeline. So 2009, 2010, I'm living in my brother's garage, my mom
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lost her house and I was living with her. And I'm trying to like figure out what to do with my
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life. So I'm in college. I was thinking about going to become a nurse. I mean, it was trying to
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become a nurse, but I didn't I didn't like the clinical portion of it. I really only liked like
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the science behind it. So basically, every day I'm coming back from class and I'm trying to figure
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out like, what do I want to do with my life? Like I don't think this is it. And I came across SEO
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and that's what got me started. And you know, I still dabble a lot in SEO. I use it a lot with,
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you know, the handful of clients I still have for SEO and also YouTube and stuff like that is very
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prevalent. But yeah, so I started a marketing agency at that point and took it very quickly to
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six figures, moved out of my brother's garage, dropped out of college, which was crazy at the time
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because everyone's like, tell me what are you doing? Why are you dropping out of college? You
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think that's a good idea? And I just knew like, you know, this is this is what I had to do. Like I
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was I was spending more time in class like trying to build this agency than I was like trying to
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learn stuff. So yeah, I mean, pretty much right before then, right before I went to school,
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just to cover the music stuff to kind of skip pass out a little bit. But I had kind of came to the
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the point in my mind that like music is going to be a very hard industry to break into.
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Yes. And like I did not have the money to fund that to try and make that happen. So that kind of
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all happened at once, nursing school, ending music, starting the agency all at once.
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How do you for somebody just starting out who does have like a lot of creative passion they
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want to pursue? And it could be something traditionally creative like music or it could be them
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trying to wrestle with business idea one versus business idea two. Based on like what happened
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with you or it could be college traditional job and you're wrestling with all these sort of life
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decisions. How do you decide like what you should pursue? Like how did you know the marketing agency
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was what you were destined to do and you were going to make it successful like no matter what?
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Yeah. So also the other part is that I now I'm doing music again. So it was like it was kind
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of just a temporary pause and what I wanted to do. And I was able to like build up that momentum
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with the funding to actually make that happen later in life. So I think that's kind of sort of
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like a delayed gratification lesson as well. Like you can do the unsexy thing now to like fund
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what you really want to do later. So kind of looking ahead. But also I kind of just took like what
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was going on in my own life. I was working for a heating cooling company at the time. And they
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were getting a lot of calls from like home advisor at the time when they're called service magic
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back then. And they were trying to sell leads. And I thought you know what if I could help businesses
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get leads by ranking my own websites. So that's kind of what led me to go down that path. So I think
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leaning into like what's going on in your own life. Are there some certain skills that you can
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learn that are going to help you achieve this and allow you to still be creative with what you're
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doing. And then just knowing that like this doesn't have to be forever. Like it can just get you
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to where you want to be going eventually. Because eventually I did a lot of other things. I started
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a software company. I started a YouTube channel. So I'll all business by the way. Yeah. Yeah.
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Yeah. And when I say that because when you think about the strategy to start a marketing agency
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versus a software company versus a YouTube channel. Like it's you still have to figure out the
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full complement of business skills and strategy to get it off the ground. They ended up tying into
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each other very nicely. But I didn't know that was going to be my end goal at the time. At the time
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it was just I just need to like get on my feet and make enough money to where I can support myself.
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And then they all eventually I needed a software to track phone calls for the marketing agency.
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And I built that software company. And then eventually people who were joining the
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software company wanted more training on doing SEO and lead generation. So that fed into the YouTube
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channel. And before I know it, like I'm back into the creative stuff again, which is awesome.
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I love that. And I also think that that's a really smart way when you're when you build a business.
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One thing that it seems like you've done very well is you look for all these like all these
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opportunities that are sort of like forcing themselves on you and you lean into it not as a distraction.
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But when you know your customer so well and you know what they need, then you build stuff for them
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as opposed to just guessing. Exactly. And sometimes you have to have a little bit of traction to have
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the luxury to do that because if you didn't have like marketing agency customers, you wouldn't know
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that you have to build SaaS for them. And then you wouldn't have to know that you have to build training
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for them. But like if you pay attention, then you like lean into the opportunity that's basically
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like knocking at your door and can't be ignored. And that's kind of now that I see now that you're
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laying it out, that's exactly how you've built your entire career. Yeah, 100%. And I also think too,
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like you said, knowing your customer, part of like not getting too big where you have all these
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employees and stuff kind of distances you from your customer a lot. So I mean, even I find myself,
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it happens now with myself where I sometimes I'll get a little further away from the customer service
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aspect. Just because you know customer services, it's one of those jobs are like it can be super
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rewarding or it can be super taxing too because you know, if you're answering an email and it only
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takes one customer that's maybe having a bad day to throw off your whole day and then it's hard to
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be creative. But I do think it's really important as a business owner to try and still have a hand
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in that, even if it's once every couple months to like be answering some support tickets and like
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actually getting on the phone with customers, even sometimes it takes that to really know your
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market and be able to build what you need to build for them. And I think that you should never really
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like never never completely remove yourself from the customer interaction. I think that's super
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important. Okay, so that ended up sort of over time creating your entire business ecosystem for
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lack of a better description, right? So then you built the marketing agency, it's going well
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that turns into SaaS, that turns into the actual software that you build out.
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You chose to exit that business. And so explain to me as sort of like you are, you know,
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your entrepreneur career progresses. Why did you choose to exit one piece of the business?
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Why did you choose to keep another? Like just walk me through sort of your thought process
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for how you, you know, how you sort of structure and how you choose to build things, exit other
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things. Because that's also I think that knowing when to add on new products, knowing when to exit
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them, knowing when to sell, like these are all very difficult ideas that a lot of entrepreneurs don't
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think about when they're first starting out. I think for me, like I was really left with no
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choice. So to give you some backstory, I was going through a divorce. And it was a long divorce,
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like a couple of years long. I'm sorry, that sucks. It's yeah. Yeah, it's okay. It actually turned out
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to be great, you know, like now I'm at my fiance. So that's true. Yeah. And yeah, I'm happy. And
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it's been kind of rewarding as well in a way because like I always said, like, you know,
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you can take everything away from me, but you can't take the skills that I learned, right?
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And I always said that to people like, you know, people who are wanting to start off and do a business
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like, learn a skill, learn a skill, like you cannot take that away from you. So I kind of got thrown
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into a situation where like I almost had to rebuild. So I decided to exit the company for that
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reason was one of the main drivers behind why I wanted to exit. But I did it in a way where I'm
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still involved, which is really cool. So the new owners have taken over like the role of like
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managing the company, but I'm still involved in like a profit sharing way. So okay, that's not bad.
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It's been really cool actually. And it's now it's allowed me to focus on other things. Like I'm
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pursuing like my passion, like the music and stuff. And we're traveling around the world in an RV,
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which has been really fun. I know, I know you are. So it's been like, it's like opened up so many doors.
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And also like, it's been like one of the best things that happened to me like, can you explain
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how a divorce causes you to have to sell a company? Because listen, like I think that the person
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that you're with can be the biggest advantage, especially for an entrepreneur because listen,
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building anything is difficult. It'll be a lot of times when there's ups and downs. And I think
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that when you have like the right person at home, your partner, your spouse, whatever has been
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wife, whoever, you know, you're with, that can be like the biggest blessing or the biggest curse
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to your success. Now, I don't. So if if obviously, you know, you're going through a divorce,
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things aren't going great. I get it. But how did it come to the point where it forced you to sell
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a company? Yeah. So good question. I totally agree with you as well. Like if you don't have peace
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in your life at home, like it's almost impossible to do anything else and like build, right?
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So that is like super important. But yeah, I mean, in a divorce, you're losing half of everything,
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half of your, you did not like pren up or post not. No, because I didn't have anything when,
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you know, when we got married, we got married young. So like, at that time, I didn't have anything.
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I mean, it was living in a garage. Yeah, that's fair. Okay, fine. Yeah. So I mean, like, you know,
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everything was sort of like built up during the marriage. So you lose basically half of everything.
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And then because, you know, you're the person driving the income, you're also having to pay
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like, alimony and maintenance. So that becomes like a huge burden. And when that happens, you have
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the, like, you're not forced to sell. But I guess the, well, you could be in certain scenarios.
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I wasn't forced to sell because we were able to work out that I wasn't forced to sell. But in the
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end, you know, like I was put in such a tight financial position that it was like lifestyle choice,
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right? Do I want, what kind of lifestyle do I want to live? Like I like to drive nice cars.
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I like to live in a nice house. And I didn't want to downgrade. So for me, selling that seem to be
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the best way to still achieve what I wanted to do and kind of give me a reset. Okay. So after this
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exit, where are you now? You still have, you still have the marketing agency. You're still at this
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point, what year is this approximately? That's all happening. Yeah. Like when you sold the company,
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like this is really recent this year. So the beginning of this year, I sold the company.
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This is all very recent. Yeah. Um, divorce finalized last summer. So that's going to year. And then
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I was going through the divorce for two years before we actually finalize things. So yeah, it was
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a, it was definitely a rough like three years for sure. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, like I said, I'm like
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so great right now. Everything is like amazing. I'm happy for you. Thank you. Yeah. Like I'm living
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my best life now and so happy. And what the reason I asked sort of timeline was because I was
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I was trying to understand from like a business perspective, like the marketing agency had evolved.
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Yeah. Obviously was this is like now fast forwarding like 2009. So like almost like what,
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13 years. Yeah, let's hop back to there. So the marketing agency sort of scaled down over time
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naturally with building the software company. Yeah. Because like running two things at once,
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not like you said, focus is important. So like you definitely do have to decide what you're going to
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focus on. I still keep my hands into marketing. Yeah. Quite a bit like I have like, I'll say like
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maybe like a dozen clients or so, but I'm not actively seeking clients understood. But I want
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to still have a pulse on what's going on. And when you think about after the exit, like your first
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thought was where should I spend my time? Should I rebuild the marketing agency? Should I go into
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something else? Should I, I mean like now you're building up the YouTube channel, but you never
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stopped. So I know that there's like creative pursuits, but where did like the the entrepreneurship
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business energy go after that exit? After that exit, I think it went into AI and content creation.
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So so many new developments started happening with AI. And it's been so exciting for me. Like,
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I don't know about you, but I just love 1000%. Yeah. Like it's just, it's so crazy to think like,
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I can literally clone my voice with 11 labs or something like that. And then be typing something
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and have it like make content for me. So I've been experimenting a lot with that and actually evolving
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from just doing SEO to generate leads to now using faceless videos to generate leads or like,
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you know, certain content with AI, which has been insane. I mean, I've taken, for example,
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I've taken reels that I've done on Instagram that have gotten like a million views and literally
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clone the real with AI and using nothing but like pictures and like 11 labs voice. And it'll still
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get hundreds and hundreds of thousands of views and thousands of leads. So like just thinking about
19:55
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20:01
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After you exit it, you listen, you still have like this vested interest in this company that you
22:47
sold, you still make money when you still support them. At this point, you weren't taking on new
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SEO clients. So when did you make this shift into AI? Because AI is a very broad topic. Obviously,
23:01
as an entrepreneur, you understand the potential. As somebody who was sort of like always on the bleeding
23:06
edge of marketing of tech, like you see it probably better than most. So what was the sort, I mean,
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obviously, it's easy to ask why is AI interesting? It's incredibly interesting. But where did you see
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the biggest opportunity with it? Initially, I saw the biggest opportunity with helping businesses
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get AI implemented. So being like an AI consultant. But then I saw how I was utilizing it with myself
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with like Instagram and stuff like that. And I thought like, you know, hey, we could be doing this
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for other people are teaching other people how to implement this. So I started putting out like
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courses and trainings on how to implement pretty much what I'm doing, generating leads on Instagram.
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Because I still generate tons of leads for the software company. Just posting 30 second videos
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with my phone. Sometimes I don't even have to show my face. So, you know, you get people to reply
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yes to the video and then have, you know, follow up. Like a DM, they send them like a DM. Okay, so this is
24:02
what I really want to unpack because every time somebody does an AI conversation podcast, whatever,
24:10
it's all this like super complex shit that the average business person does not understand. What
24:16
right now have you found is a really strong marketing strategy leveraging AI. You could literally go
24:22
into chat GPT right and ask it for an idea. Like I want, I want a trending video idea that is going
24:27
to blow up or I want you to analyze this competitor's YouTube channel and find their best performing
24:33
video. Like I want the outlier the video that really went crazy. Then you can have it transcribed
24:39
the video for you and find out exactly what was talked about. So now it's kind of I use AI like
24:45
my assistant, right? I'm making it do the things that would normally take me or even an assistant
24:49
a very long time to do it can do within a second. So then it can pull out what the video is about.
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You can have it ask, ask it to rewrite the video in a way, like come up with your own sort of like
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hooks in it. And then you can either post a video yourself, like redo it, redo your own variation
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of it. AI will tell you what the caption should be. AI will even do the thumbnail for you know,
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which is kind of crazy. So you could do that or you can have like something like 11 labs,
25:16
clone your voice or if you want to be like an AI consultant and work with business owners and help
25:20
them do this, clone the business owners voice. And now you're doing content for them, but they don't
25:24
have to do anything because business owners, they don't have time to like learn all of this. So
25:29
yeah, I mean, that's been huge for me. Then using something like many chat to automate follow up.
25:35
So I always end pretty much every video, especially short form videos and make them comment yes,
25:41
like, hey, if you want, if you want to get started coming, yes. And then if you look, you'd
25:46
got comments pouring down the Instagram feed or even on YouTube. That's like, yes, yes, yes, yes.
25:51
And then you're responding back to them with a link to get them in. Now you can go a step further
25:56
and let's say like you need to build out a landing page for your offer. Well, in the past,
26:00
we'd be using something like click bottles or something like that. Well, no, you could just use
26:05
deep seek. They have they have the thing called deep site. Really super cool. If you haven't
26:09
checked it out yet, I have not yet. No, check that out. This is crazy. You can literally go in and type
26:14
make me this website or here's my video. I want my video on the website. Make it like a webinar
26:19
replay or make it a landing page and it will design it. It'll write the copy for it. It'll do
26:24
everything in 10 seconds. That's insane. I didn't realize it. So I listen, most of what you just
26:31
described I use as well. So what we're really talking about is like using AI for research,
26:37
for content creation, for as like it, it could be an aid for you to create more efficiently and
26:45
more effectively or it can literally, if you want to really just replace you completely because
26:52
now again, it can clone, it can write the script thumbnail, clone your voice. I think with,
26:58
is it Hey, Jen? Hey, Jen. Yes. That was hard. Yeah. Crazy. It's like, it's so crazy. What if
27:03
you feel three knows also crazy with cinematic footage and stuff. So you can use it for basically
27:09
all content creation and research, but then you can also use it for, I mean, I didn't realize
27:14
building out landing pages, websites, copy, copy. Is there anything that writes copy better than
27:21
most copy readers that you paid to write copy? So that's what I was going to ask you. So I find
27:26
that chat cheaply at least has limitations when it comes to writing. And I was going to ask you
27:32
also, like, what does it do very well and what does it sort of not do so, so well? And I'm curious
27:38
that if I just give context, I don't do a lot of like, say 10 minute YouTube style videos. I do
27:47
a lot of like long form podcasts. So I use it for research. But I'm curious, sort of two questions.
27:54
First, does it do a good enough job of researching writing hooks, where you actually see the performance
28:03
when it when you sort of rely on it? And then secondly, what sort of AI tools are best for what
28:12
tasks, meaning in my personal experience, chat cheaply is good for research. I don't love the
28:18
copy it generates. So I use cloud for copy writing. So are there other nuances like that?
28:25
Yeah, totally. And I think I think the way that I look at these tools is it's more about how you use
28:30
them. So it's much chat gbt, you have to really train it to get the output that you want. And I
28:37
think that that's the biggest takeaway here. Like if you're going to go in and you're going to
28:41
learn AI, it's everyone knows about chat gbt, right? That's not the secret. The sauce is how you
28:47
train chat gbt to do what you want it to do. So like if I tell chat gbt that I want it to be a
28:53
world-class copywriter like John Carlton, I'm going to get really great copy coming out of it
28:58
versus if I just say, hey, right, right, right, this. So I think that that's in the nuances of it.
29:06
It doesn't, I haven't really found personally like using something like deep seek or chat gbt
29:11
or like using these different tools that it makes that big of a difference if you're training the
29:16
if you're training properly. Yeah. Okay. So I think that's the biggest thing. And I don't know,
29:21
maybe it's just like my creative brain where I'm in there like tinkering, like figuring out exactly
29:26
like what kind of output I'm getting from what I'm typing in. But it learns. It keeps like a
29:31
history, a record of what you're saying to the point where now I can tell chat gbt to write an email
29:35
from me and it sounds like it sounds like me. Like it writes better emails than I write emails now.
29:40
Like it's so easy. It's true. Yeah. Yeah. There was a Navale Ravicon tweet that just I just saw
29:46
yesterday. And it was it was so prolific. It was this is what he does, you know, it takes this
29:51
like really simple wisdom and just, you know, he finds a way to package it in a way that you're like,
29:56
oh shit, yeah, that's right. But the tweet was if you can train someone to do it, you can train AI
30:03
to do it. Yeah. And it was, I might be paraphrasing, but that's really what it comes down to.
30:09
I think we're at a really unique junction right now where we're about to see a huge boom
30:13
with AI agents. Yes. And that I think is like the thing to watch out for. Have you been
30:19
dabbling with like, uh, what is it? And eight and eight and yeah, and some of the very tiny bit,
30:24
but that's like that's what I'm that's kind of at my Amazon for the future is dabbling in that
30:29
more and learning it more, be mastering it. I think that's where the future is headed. I think
30:33
over the next year or two, that industry alone is going to make so many multi millionaires. Like
30:39
if you're sitting here right now like watching this and you're thinking like, what's the next
30:43
like thing I should do? Become a master at that. So what, so break down, break down your, like
30:49
your audience building content strategy. You kind of already touched on it a little bit. Um,
30:53
but there's sort of two components that I see at least and you can correct me. But the way that I see
30:57
it, you have sort of like the research piece. And then you have like the faceless channel piece.
31:04
Or even if you want to be on camera. Yeah. Like for me, I'm kind of doing a combination of both,
31:09
right? Like I'm taking it and using it for like idea generation. Um, I trust it to give me better
31:15
captions, better titles and I can come up with better hooks and I can come up with. But I still
31:20
want to be the face. I still want to be the brand. So for me, that's normally what I'm doing. But
31:25
for a lot of business owners out there, like if they're running a plumbing company, they maybe
31:29
don't have time to do that. Or maybe if someone wants to like help someone generate leads for a
31:33
plumbing company, they could very quickly go out and start, you know, uh, Miami vibes Instagram
31:40
page and start posting videos about the top five places to eat in Miami. And then next time post,
31:46
hey, do you have a water heater leak, you know, yeah, give this plumber call. Do you notice, um,
31:53
when you do true faceless, because I get the research piece, but the faceless piece, I feel like
31:58
I can, I can at least still tell if it's like AI generated or not. But do you notice?
32:04
It still performs decently well. That's the crazy part about it. Yeah. Is that people don't
32:09
really care? I think we might, I think we might eventually see a world where, you know, we have a
32:17
Paul James AI page in a Scott Clary AI page and people come just to see their content instead of
32:23
just ours, right? That's so great. So the, I mean, like this could be like the future of
32:27
info. We already see. Yeah. I mean, who knows, right? AI influencers. Yeah. So when you post
32:33
faceless stuff to some of the businesses that you work with, yeah, still get leads, still get leads.
32:37
Obviously not as great of content, right? You and I can tell. Yeah. Like, yeah, but I mean,
32:43
like, but it's like zero effort. Zero effort. Yeah, zero effort. Some leads versus significant
32:49
effort, meaning like CEO has to show up film and it might work and it might not. So if you look
32:53
at the payoff, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's like, I think people should be doing a mix of both.
32:58
Yeah. If they can, if they can't, they should at least be doing faceless. Why not? What do you have to
33:04
lose? So people don't really care. So they don't, even though people are smart, they'll trust AI.
33:09
It's not about, it's, if a business is using AI to create content, like faceless content,
33:14
or even like a Hey Jen like avatar style thing, people don't care that much. Not really. And
33:20
I think it depends about the type of content, right? Like, you know, if you're watching like the
33:25
top five restaurants to eat or something, like, you don't really care if it's like AI necessarily.
33:30
With some people too, but mostly you just care about, is it going to be good food? Yeah. So if it,
33:34
if even if it gives you an idea that you can then go and research, like, doesn't have good reviews.
33:38
Yeah. It's still like putting the idea in their head. So yeah, I think it's obviously not as
33:44
great of content. People can tell it's AI, but it does still generate leads. And that's a crazy
33:48
part about it. I'd literally, the early testing of this, I took some of my top performing
33:53
reels and cloned it with AI. And they still were my top performing reels, even though it wasn't me.
33:59
And that, and that, and that to me just blew my mind. I was like, wow.
34:03
What would be your advice for somebody who's listening to this who's working in a company
34:07
who's like, shit, I don't want to get replaced. So what would you tell them?
34:12
I would say, like you said, the output of what you get out of like chat GPT is based on the
34:18
puppeteer, right? It's based on a person who's controlling it, at least right now. So I think
34:25
being very good at knowing how to control AI and knowing how to make it work for you instead of
34:32
replacing you is going to be the best way to future proof your job right now.
34:36
I fully agree. And I mean, even in the future, as you know, with stuff with the NAN, where it's
34:40
actually, it can borderline make decisions, right? And what it should do if a customer says something
34:47
on a phone call, it can decide what it wants to answer. There's still someone that has to be
34:52
there to be the puppeteer and set all that up and monitor what's going on. Be that person.
34:58
You have to be that person. Yeah. You teach a lot of, I guess, sort of like business opportunities.
35:03
And like I looked at some of your content and even going way back, you were sort of like showing
35:07
people, okay, this is like right now, this opportunity is a land grab. Find a way to go build the
35:13
business around this. So you're not just like teaching the tools or being like, okay, so here's
35:17
the tools, but here's how you monetize it as an entrepreneur. One of the things that you talk
35:21
about frequently is like local lead gen with AI. Now, lead gen is always a great business
35:27
opportunity through literally showing people how to make more money, but explain why that's an
35:32
opportunity. So local lead gen, what does that mean? Somebody's listening to this and they're like,
35:37
oh, I want to start a business. I know AI. This is a great way to actually make some money.
35:42
Where do they start and what do they do? So in the past, to not to generate leads, we were looking
35:46
at SEO, things like that, things of that nature. But now with AI, we can set up an Instagram
35:52
page and start flooding it with videos or things of that nature. Or even content in general,
35:57
it could be Facebook posts, it could be posting in groups, things like that. So there's this huge
36:03
multi-million dollar market, multi-million dollar a year market. You look at companies like Angie
36:08
and HomeAdvisor, they're doing I think 500 million a year or something crazy like that. So they sell
36:14
leads to business owners, essentially, like let's say you go and you need a new roof or your roof
36:20
is leaking. They will sell the the lead or the phone call from someone who needs that service
36:26
to five different roofers for $100 a call. So that's the opportunity is really stepping in and
36:33
providing a similar service to them, but generating your own leads using AI and then selling them to
36:40
business owners. And if you want to stand apart from like Angie's list or HomeAdvisor, offering
36:44
exclusivity to the lead because they sell it to five different times to the same like the same
36:50
to like five different rivers. Yeah. So only one person is going to get that job, but all five
36:54
people are going to pay for it. It's kind of it's kind of shitty of that. It is. Yeah. And a lot of
36:59
their a lot of their people that they work with aren't very happy with it. So that's it. That's
37:04
so that's like a but they choose to work with them because you could disrupt. Yeah, you could
37:08
disrupt. It's very good point. Yes. It's a very disruptive marketing opportunity because of the
37:13
fact that there's an opportunity there that people are choosing to work with this company because
37:17
there's not a lot of options or the options that are out there aren't super saturated yet. I also
37:24
think that to your point like AI, AI allows you to compete, right? So yes, can can could you have
37:30
built a lead gen company like an angi's list via SEO pre a yes, of course, you can. Yes,
37:37
there's competitors. But if you understand sort of lack of a better term new age marketing,
37:44
then you can compete with really, you know, resources are so you don't need the resources,
37:51
you don't need a lot of money to build a company. Because if you actually listen, you just
37:55
went through that workflow or even if you do it without the workflow, you could have like
38:00
10 different pages posting content nonstop. It's crazy. Yeah. And then and then you have something
38:05
like my software, that's what it did was it handled the the tracking of the leads into reporting
38:11
and automated billing. Dialogue is like a CRM to a degree or no. It's similar. It's it's more of
38:17
like tracking reporting and invoicing of the lead. So we're not we're not really concerned with
38:21
what happens to the lead once they get it to hand it their job to close it. But we're panning the
38:26
distribution of the lead. Some of the questions that come up around AI that you continuously see,
38:33
like whether or not it's comments on YouTube or just like people that reach out to you, like what are
38:36
people struggling with? Honestly, I think a lot of it is just getting started. People seem to find
38:42
a lot of excuses of why they can't get started. I'm not technical savvy enough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
38:48
Like stuff like that are like, you know, I don't have the confidence to do this. And like my brother
38:54
the other day decided he, you know, he's not super tech savvy, by the way, just to give to
38:58
a professor, usually like anything that's technical related. He's like Paul can just do it for me.
39:02
I'm like, go to lovable.dev and it will build an app for you. Yeah. And he did it. And sure
39:09
enough, he's got like an app fully built out of his idea that normally would have taken eight
39:14
months and probably $20,000. And he did it in two days because he did actually just get started.
39:22
So you have to start like no excuses, just open up chat. Even if you don't know what to do,
39:29
like if you want to build out an app, ask chat GPT, what is the best AI app coder? Okay, it's lovable.dev.
39:36
How do I use lovable.dev? Like you can literally ask it anything treat it like you're like
39:41
teacher. What was your out of all the videos that you've put up on AI? I'm curious. What was the
39:46
most watched? I recently did one that said I asked deep seek how to make money. Everyone wants
39:54
to know how to make money. What did it say? So I told deep seek that I, you know, I want to know
39:59
how to make money like home advisor, like theoretically, you know, if I was coming into this as a
40:04
beginner and knew nothing, could I rely on something like deep seek or chat GPT? So I asked it
40:09
and it came back and gave me 50 of the top businesses that I should go after. So like I didn't
40:14
have to think about what niche I wanted to enter. It told me what to enter. It told me how much to
40:19
charge these businesses per lead and it gave me an exact blueprint of like exactly how to get
40:24
the leads and how to get how to even reach out to these business owners and get them to say yes
40:28
to working with me without having to lift a finger and it was totally accurate, which is a crazy
40:34
part. So I basically documented this and put it on video and it went really crazy. It was got
40:40
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43:13
going viral and sort of your content strategy. When you start to leverage AI because now you're
43:22
learning via data because the AI is just massive data sets. So somebody wants to create content.
43:29
I know you're going to tell them do the research use AI but what are some of the things that you've
43:33
discovered about good content that you may have not realized before you leveraged AI? Like what are
43:39
some of the patterns that you're seeing that show up for any creator really? I'm noticing
43:45
particularly it can come down to something as simple as like the actual like title of a video.
43:50
The thumbnail of the video and even like the structure like how it starts off and if you can
43:56
replicate those obviously I'm not saying directly copy but if you can get very close to what
44:01
they're doing you're almost guaranteed to go viral. You notice this? Yes. Really? Yeah. So go
44:07
reverse engineer like your competitor or any competitor of yours and look at like their top
44:12
video in the last let's say like month. Try to reverse engineer it as close as you can make it
44:18
a little bit better. Yeah. You're almost guaranteed to go viral. It's almost impossible not to.
44:23
So what AI is doing is it's just taking the guesswork out of content. Yeah. So you can use AI
44:29
to like research this for you. Yeah. You know with YouTube there's tools like vidIQ which will show
44:35
you like outliers scores that's pretty helpful but just being able like sort through data that
44:40
normally normally like I mean you just wouldn't have like the time energy resources all of that.
44:47
I want to unpack like a few sort of I don't know like just some of the things that you've done
44:54
in your life and your career. I think they're valuable for entrepreneurs like forget about AI
44:59
for a second just like how you've built in the way that you think I've touched on this but I
45:03
think it's useful to go into it a little bit deeper. You have and if you feel like this is not
45:09
a fair assumption that's fine but I feel like you've been able to reinvent yourself multiple times
45:13
and you've you know you've persevered through a lot of ups and downs. When somebody is going
45:19
through a difficult period in their life and their business which everyone will at some point
45:25
what's your advice to them like what is the mental model or the daily practice that gets you through
45:32
those more difficult times. I would say I'm always looking at the bright side like I'm not
45:37
I'm not a like glass half empty kind of guy. I'm always looking at like you know it could always
45:42
be worse. So I try to focus on like the little lens because that very quickly allows you to
45:49
snowball and not always be focused on the negative because when you're always focused on the negative
45:54
like you're just doomed like you're you're not going to have a positive outlook on what you're
45:58
trying to accomplish. So is that not really to you? It does yeah I think it's a blessing yeah
46:03
that's tough because a lot of people just a lot of people they don't have that I know I know a lot
46:07
of like listen when things don't go right forget life just in business like when things don't go
46:11
right I think a lot of people just they just feel like it's worse than it is yeah and that doesn't
46:17
happen to you. Not as much no I'm always like I think my mom raised me that way to like you know
46:23
someone's always got it worse than you and that kind of stuck with me so that's just kind of how
46:28
I always try to think like there's it could always be worse and on the other side of this one day
46:34
I'm going to look badly this isn't a forever thing right whatever you're going through is not a
46:37
forever thing it's just a right now thing and on the other side of this one day you're going to
46:41
look back and you're going to be like you know I learned this is this is tough it was a hard thing
46:46
to go through but I learned this isn't this and maybe it was the best thing that ever happened you
46:49
maybe something else came out on the other side that you weren't expecting. What would be the the
46:53
one thing that you had to unlearn to become a successful entrepreneur something that was holding
46:58
you back. I think learning that you can figure things out on your own you don't always need to like
47:05
know everything right away because like actually doing is going to help you learn much faster
47:12
than than trying to like have all the pieces to the puzzle right away there's a lot of very book
47:16
smart people that end up doing nothing because they still feel like they don't have everything yet
47:21
they still want to keep learning so I would say just like doing like learning how to just actually do
47:27
and and figure it out along the way being okay with making mistakes too you know sometimes we
47:32
we can be perfectionist I can get that way sometimes where I'm you know is it ready or should I
47:38
yeah I'm the same way yeah you just got to get to it so I've thought about this a lot and I
47:43
and I think that there is an obsession with like knowledge accumulation yes and
47:49
okay great you've learned and you've watched 10,000 YouTube videos on something but like just go do it
47:55
just go do it and I've actually found myself like I think that anybody who's an ambitious person
48:01
they kind of fall into this trap at some point of just like loving just consuming content
48:06
yeah or podcasts or books or whatever nothing wrong with that no keep us in the podcast
48:10
right but I think that listen I think that there's a point where you know you're you're just really
48:20
consuming information because you don't have the courage to like take action yeah it makes you feel
48:24
good it's like an excuse almost so I mean like I think that just shortening like that gap
48:29
from education to doing is very very important when you learn something I mean like I feel like
48:34
you're the kind of person that you learn it and like the second you're done the YouTube video
48:39
you're trying that thing opening up that tool executing exactly I mean because you teach a lot
48:45
of entrepreneurs too so I'm assuming that you see some bad habits in people that you work with
48:50
it's ironic because you're kind of like you're kind of like teaching your own competition but
48:55
that's like besides the point to a degree I mean like you're teaching people that are kind of
48:59
doing the same thing as you but forget that when you work with so many entrepreneurs you teach
49:03
a many entrepreneurs what are some of the worst habits that you see them doing that sort of holding
49:08
them back and people that are just starting out what should they do differently yeah I think a lot
49:12
of people feel like they're not confident enough to like actually get going and I think that confidence
49:18
is one of those things where like it actually takes the experience to be become confident at whatever
49:22
it is you're trying to do and if you're never getting started you're never getting that experience
49:27
well you're never gonna be confident at that thing so yeah I think that's the that's one of the hardest
49:32
habits that I have to try to get people to to just like take action so that because if not then
49:36
it's like a chicken egg situation yeah exactly get out there and make a mistake like what's the I
49:42
always say ask yourself what's the worst that's gonna happen well business owner asked me this and I
49:46
don't know how to answer it just tell him you don't know how to answer it and you'll get back to
49:49
with an answer like you know it's not it's not always like the worst like just beat I feel like
49:55
people feel like they have to like know it all in order to like do the thing they're doing and I
49:59
just don't think that's the case like humans understand like we're not all perfect like we're
50:03
gonna make mistakes like you might not know everything but being honest about that and like for
50:10
me when I hire someone I'm not really concerned like do they know literally everything I really
50:15
would rather know like are they capable of figuring it out are they a problem solver like if I'm
50:20
hiring someone to like work on my kitchen and do a remodel like maybe they haven't worked with
50:26
this particular tile before but I'm confident in their ability that they're going to learn or
50:31
figure it out because they've figured out tough things before I think that skill set is going to be
50:36
one of the most valuable skill sets it already is but I mean like going forward we're talking about like
50:43
if you're an employee and you want to not be laid off yeah the ability to figure shit out is
50:50
incredibly important a self starter you know like especially like like I said and we talked a lot
50:56
about AI but the fact that you literally have AI in your back pocket to like ask questions to
51:01
yeah like just figure it out where do you think marketing AI like where do you think we're going
51:09
to be in like the next six months or what's your forecast like you you deal with these tools and
51:14
you expose yourself to them every single day what are some of the trends that you see it's hard
51:18
to even imagine like even as myself like someone who like developed software companies and things
51:23
like that like where does that leave us even you know because it's like it's like someone can go
51:28
and like create their own software nowadays but I do still think of like the aspect like there does
51:34
still need to be the puppeteer like there still needs to be someone making sure it's secure that
51:38
things are working bug fixes so I do still think there's going to be a need for that but I think
51:43
there's going to be a shift in efficiency I think I think AI agents are going to be huge they're
51:47
going to be taking over a lot of the mundane tasks of things that like even something like cold calling
51:53
but I think it will be like more of like a handoff thing like maybe AI's agent is handling cold
51:59
calling someone answers the phone they get someone on the line boom transferred over to an agent
52:02
or something like that so I think we're going to see more shifts like that where it's more like
52:06
AI is kind of doing like the beginning of the task but then it's shifting off to like maybe a
52:11
real person to kind of finish the job and make sure everything is good I think that's I think
52:16
that's probably a smart take because I think that the most important thing in the age of AI is
52:21
the human to human interaction yeah because again yes you can get leads but when you're trying to
52:27
close significant deals at least now I think that there is still a level of trust yeah and it's
52:35
the the person buying the thing wants to understand that there's a person on the other end that's
52:40
going to take care of the problems if there is any so I think that yeah you can use AI for like
52:45
that like to your point it's going to be the beginning of top of the funnel the beginning whatever
52:48
you want to call it but human so now humans are going to do the more complex tasks the tasks that
52:56
require trust to be built and and report to be built and they're not going to be wasting time
53:02
doing the adventure yeah and the admin stuff that really can be outsourced to AI yeah you can't
53:08
really get rid of like emotion right no so that'll always be there hopefully hopefully we'll see
53:16
I guess but every time next year at least I don't think we're getting rid of that component every
53:20
every time I do like an AI podcast or conversation I'm like I hope I don't like watch this in 50 years
53:27
like running away from a robot it'll probably be less than 50 years if I'm happy yeah I know
53:32
I like oh only I do I hope I be like five years from now if that doesn't happen so what I really
53:38
want to show because obviously you've also built a massive audience and a lot of what we're talking
53:42
about is how to help businesses but I mean you kind of like listen to your own you listen to your
53:49
own advice you eat your own dog food for lack of a better description but like I've seen I've seen
53:54
what you've built so for people that are call them skeptical whatever their business owners their
53:59
content creators how can you sort of quantify the results of your marketing strategy that you've
54:08
used for yourself like how is it impacted your business your life all the different opportunities
54:12
that it's led to because when you actually look through your content like you've blown up and I
54:18
know that you use your own marketing strategies for a lot of your content so maybe just lay out
54:23
like how your life has changed as you've applied your own strategy to all your own content yeah for
54:29
sure so you know a big part of like I said is lifestyle for me and my mom came and visited my
54:37
fiancee and I in Orlando and she flew in and we had a Mustang at the time we don't anymore but we
54:44
had a Mustang at the time which means like trying to get everyone into that car is kind of crazy
54:48
small car to get everyone into yeah we actually decided to surprise her and take her on what she
54:54
was wanting to be like her dream vacation basically um she loves casino she loves gambling so she
55:00
wanted to go on like an RV trip around everywhere and like try out all different casinos right
55:05
so we randomly we're we're very spontaneous we randomly saw a billboard that said rent an RV
55:11
so we're like this is interesting we should do that so we tell her to wait at home and willow and
55:17
I my fiancee we we say we're gonna go get a rental car because we're sick of driving around in
55:21
this Mustang like with all three of us it's too much so we come back we actually come back with
55:26
the RV and then we and then we film it for the for YouTube of course for vlog and um yeah she
55:33
comes out and tell her to come out and look at the rental car and it's actually an RV sitting there
55:37
I love that and now so I mean you've built out um like a massive audience like talk to me about
55:42
like even like the business opportunity like the the partnerships opportunity like neither of us
55:47
will or I are like camping people per se like maybe glamping right like we I also like glamping
55:54
yeah but we don't want to be out in the woods like an intent so we're we're skeptic we didn't
55:59
know if we're gonna like RVs necessarily but we go on this trip and we just have like the greatest
56:04
time ever my mom is super excited we go up to Mississippi, Biluxi and then we come down to Miami
56:09
to the hard rock here and we just take it all over and um we get the idea this is fun what if we
56:16
could do this all the time well lifestyle me I'm thinking like how can I fit this in my lifestyle
56:23
I don't really want to buy an RV right now but I want to travel around in an RV right
56:28
so we look and we see that there's a there's an RV show coming to Tampa this is like they
56:34
rent up the fairgrounds and they have it's like a big thing in Florida they also do it like
56:39
Pennsylvania too but they bring all the RV company manufacturers down from all over like the world
56:45
trade show for like a trade show and RVs are expensive um but they don't have to be we found out
56:50
which I'll get into that but anyways um we go down there and I emailed the guy before we go down
56:56
there of an RV that we see on YouTube that we absolutely love it's like this uh they call it
57:00
cacti green color so it looks really really cool and it's a coachman and I email coachman and I say
57:08
you know I'm an influencer and I do content on being free financially I think it'd be a really
57:15
cool opportunity if we could integrate you into my brand and talk about how like you know people
57:21
can travel around in an RV and it's not as expensive as they might think it is and you know just
57:26
live a free financially free lifestyle and we've been that you know traveling RV aspect and he's
57:31
like yeah come on I mean come on down to the show we can talk so we go down to the show we look
57:36
at the RV and funny enough they're all there like all like the decision makers like the person in
57:42
charge of social media um you know the person who's who's running everything at the the whole
57:46
division of like coachman our specific RV is a prism um and yeah I mean we just love the RV
57:53
and I convince them like hey you know can we work something out where I'll post X amount per month
57:59
talk about the RV people are gonna see it in the videos but I want to do it organically I don't
58:04
want it to feel like a sales pitch because that's not who I am I want it to just people see it in
58:09
the brand it's gonna feel organic and they're totally down with that they're like you know what
58:14
that's funny enough that you should say this because we actually are looking to tap into a younger
58:18
demographic that's so funny yeah so RVs the cool part is is that you can finance them over 20 years
58:26
so if they have a bathroom really yeah so like a hundred thousand dollar RV comes out to like
58:31
eight hundred dollars a month I didn't know that so someone could theoretically live in an RV they're
58:36
really really nice like super nice so I knew that like motorhomes and RVs were like very big in Florida
58:44
yeah like so when I used to go down to Florida like my grandparents always had a place down here
58:48
and sometimes there was a period where they had like a house and then they they had like a I think
58:52
an RV I can't remember the day now RV is like the one that attaches motorhome is the one that you
58:57
can ride well they're kind of used interchangeably so the motorhome is the one that has like the vehicle in
59:01
it yeah and then I guess it would be like a towable would be yeah yeah exactly but some of them are
59:06
very very nice yes they're very nice it's actually a big thing two people come down from Canada
59:11
to Florida every year I know I know for the winter yeah it's really really big down here and
59:16
these little communities and stuff like that but you're right I don't think that I'm talking about
59:20
grandparents like I don't I don't think that younger people really using them exactly so we we found
59:25
that the target demographic like even on YouTube is like 50 plus yeah so this is a big
59:31
opportunity for them to come into a you know a new demographic yeah it's an opportunity for me
59:37
because we get an RV you get like a lifestyle upgrade you can have fun yeah yeah that we love
59:43
doing and we've turned out we just love doing it and I don't have to pay for it I love it and
59:49
this is all the result of personal brand personal brand content strategy all of it yeah it all
59:55
just kind of feeds into each other so you really can build a lifestyle around you if people want
1:00:00
to connect with you if people because I know you vlog put out a ton of content so there's a couple
1:00:04
of reasons why people want to connect with you so follow the vlog check out all your RV adventures
1:00:10
you also have a whole bunch of AI training and if you are actually looking to make money
1:00:16
create a business that that you know you're proud of and also sort of gives you the lifestyle
1:00:23
that you want this is where you can learn about okay one business idea is Legion I know you have
1:00:27
a whole bunch of business ideas for people but this is just one that's all YouTube as well yeah YouTube
1:00:32
I am Paul James on YouTube and then hello Paul James on Instagram those are like my two main
1:00:38
platforms and talk about a little bit different stuff on both so definitely recommend checking out
1:00:44
both and yeah learn about stuff for free keep up with the lifestyle stuff it's fun the last
1:00:49
question I like to ask because you've given over a lot of tips but say you could only pass on like one
1:00:56
bit of wisdom to your kids it's like the most important thing that you've learned that you think will
1:01:00
make the biggest difference in their life what would that lesson be or those words of wisdom be
1:01:06
and why I think always keeping in mind like the perspective of like everyone in life has a different
1:01:12
perspective and you know when when something happens to you in life maybe think about like what
1:01:16
their perspective was like in that moment and being patient and you know also just being like a
1:01:24
self-starter no no excuses you can accomplish anything you set your mind to accomplish you know
1:01:30
where there's a will there's a way and then for like a younger generation of entrepreneurs because
1:01:35
you you work with so many what would your advice be for them I notice the younger generation they're
1:01:40
like they have this relationship with making money where they think it's almost a bad thing like for
1:01:45
them being cool or like appearing like they have money is almost better to them than actually
1:01:51
trying to make money and like sell stuff to like their audience so like they're worried about being
1:01:56
like a sell out or something like that which I just think is so backwards and funny I don't understand
1:02:01
that at all I mean you know listen I don't know what people's reasons would be for not wanting to
1:02:07
make money but know that whatever those reasons are you won't have an impact and you can't do
1:02:13
any goodness world without it I mean I'm be a sell out like it's no cool being broken like not
1:02:20
having any money so yeah that would be my advice for that