Latest / The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen / 556 - What Happened When Her Vietnamese Parents Found Out She Beats Men For Money? - Thea X

Transcript

556 - What Happened When Her Vietnamese Parents Found Out She Beats Men For Money? - Thea X · The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Vietnamese podcast.
0:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Today my guest is Thia calling in from Prague.
0:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the podcast.
0:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, good morning.
0:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for having me.
0:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
0:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how to even describe it, because I think the word dominatrix reduces the work down to just one word, and I think it's much more complicated and complex than that.
0:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think, well, I hope that that's what we're going to get into today.
0:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So, welcome to the podcast.
0:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to start by asking how your family got to the Czech Republic.
0:40
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you guys get to
0:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Alright, so, um, before Czech Republic was Czech Republic, it was Czechoslovakia, and my parents got too Czechoslovakia.
0:56
[SPEAKER_02]: as let's say, they were not extra students, even though that was happening back that as well, but they were basically labor.
1:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So back in the days, Czechoslovakia was a part of komitarno, like communist international.
1:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And in exchange for help rebuilding, you know, Czechoslovakia, Vietnam gods help from
1:34
[SPEAKER_02]: with America.
1:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that's how my parents got to Czechoslovakia back in the eighties.
1:42
[SPEAKER_02]: That's where my parents met.
1:46
[SPEAKER_02]: They got married in Czechoslovakia then they went back to Vietnam where I was born and then we moved back to now Czech Republic.
2:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so I was born in Hanoi, and then, uh, I lived there for, uh, the first five years of my life.
2:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, do you speak Vietnamese well?
2:12
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I suck, I really suck, but I do speak.
2:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I read, um, I write, and funny you should ask, because today I had a video call with a Vietnamese
2:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was so embarrassing, but so it was like a humiliation video at call and I have to say I guess we both ended up humiliation but yeah, it was not for it.
2:47
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like a nice lore, nice lore for today's podcast.
2:53
[SPEAKER_01]: that is so cool, I, you know, one of my questions is like, do you get Vietnamese clients from Vietnam or in Prague or internationally?
3:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And then how do you, you know, are they any different from like Western clients?
3:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So I generally don't really get into that because I'm really weak when it comes to Vietnamese.
3:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I even got myself a teacher for Vietnamese.
3:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So she's teaching me to speak the contemporary Vietnamese right now, but I do not feel confident in that.
3:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Speaking Vietnamese to the point that I would
3:32
[SPEAKER_02]: No, how to basically dominate people in that language.
3:38
[SPEAKER_01]: But why did you take this client from Vietnam?
3:43
[SPEAKER_02]: This guy, he's not from Vietnam, he's from Germany.
3:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay, so you weren't speaking in Vietnamese.
3:49
[SPEAKER_02]: We were.
3:50
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of Vietnamese people in Czech Republic and in Germany.
3:55
[SPEAKER_02]: who do not necessarily speak any language that I speak.
4:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So this guy, he's actually been messaging me for probably like five years on and off.
4:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And today, I just felt like you know what?
4:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's...
4:11
[SPEAKER_02]: around and might help.
4:14
[SPEAKER_02]: What I'm capable of in this language, my mother tongue, that I might make me suck at.
4:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So it doesn't really, you know what, I think it doesn't really matter that much if somebody already feels submissive to you.
4:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And he is a Vietnamese, German, or a German
4:36
[SPEAKER_02]: He's, I assume he's a Vietnamese guy who moved to Germany a couple of years ago.
4:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So he doesn't really, German, and he doesn't really speak English either.
4:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And he definitely doesn't speak Czech.
4:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So.
4:51
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's just get right to it.
4:52
[SPEAKER_01]: How did you get into this, how did you get into this work?
4:58
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what, so we have, so we have this phrase in Czech Republic.
5:02
[SPEAKER_02]: It's cold.
5:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yakoslepeko-slim, which means like a blind person to violence, which means like quite randomly.
5:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I got to this to quite randomly, but it spoke to me.
5:16
[SPEAKER_02]: So the thing is, I have been doing this for about eight years now, and how I got into this was I was quite unhappy.
5:29
[SPEAKER_02]: with my life.
5:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Back then, I was not really sure what my life meant or about my identity because I felt quite odd and quite out of place.
5:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was quite burnt out from my previous job.
5:57
[SPEAKER_02]: There's much meaning to the life that I'm living, I felt like I'm always trying to catch up with expectations of other people, especially my parents, obviously, it was like a very dark and dire time for me.
6:16
[SPEAKER_02]: At some point, it broke because I was so depressed.
6:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I was really unhappy.
6:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know what to do with my life in order to give it this meaning, this purpose, where something that I would align myself with.
6:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And that came a decision where I decided that I do not want to do anything that,
6:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I would consider that would be pleasing other people.
6:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So, but I would want to...
6:47
[SPEAKER_02]: you know follow or like go into endeavors that are quite odd because life is meant to be lived in and for me like in such a spectrum like what can I get out of this life?
7:01
[SPEAKER_02]: What can I find out about this life?
7:03
[SPEAKER_02]: How can I experience this life without the rigidity of expectation of others?
7:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was looking around.
7:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I was reading a lot.
7:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I was doing a lot of research about stuff, you know, just like stuff that would intrigue me that would feel interesting to me.
7:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And when I came across
7:28
[SPEAKER_02]: an article about female domination, it kind of like, I was just wondering, can I be this?
7:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I embody this?
7:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I read it some more and I did some soul searching, I realized that I used to be like that.
7:44
[SPEAKER_02]: When I was a child, I was like quite fierce.
7:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I've always been fierce, but the older I got and moving to Europe from the
7:56
[SPEAKER_02]: with now I also felt like suddenly there was this huge burden of expectations that I had to carry of like how my parents or the society would deem me good enough and so I feel like
8:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I was refusing a lot of myself in order to fit that mold.
8:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And when I read about female domination, about these fierce women who don't take shit, and they live the way that I want.
8:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And like these examples of dominatrices, it felt
8:35
[SPEAKER_02]: like something that they felt familiar, because I never took any shit until my parents told me who was wrong.
8:45
[SPEAKER_02]: To argue over, you know, and um, so I tried it.
8:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I tried, I did some research, I tiptoed around it, and it felt really just so natural to me, and so I never looked back ever since.
9:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you say you tiptoed or you looked into it and you got into it, if you could recall that first time, like, do you look into like a newspaper classified ads?
9:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And you go work for somebody like, how does this work?
9:23
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what, it was more of a vice or it could like, what's the weirdest thing that kind of woman do or something like that?
9:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, like, you know, like thing happening in this society or something like that.
9:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And so how do you find, yeah, how do you find that first job or do you intern somewhere?
9:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You can do that, actually.
9:47
[SPEAKER_02]: You can actually do that, but I'm in Czech Republic.
9:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's about 10 million inhabitants of this country.
9:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So everything is like really like smaller scale.
9:58
[SPEAKER_02]: You can,
10:00
[SPEAKER_02]: literally just like email a dungeon in New York or San Francisco and be like I want to intern you know I want to shadow a dominatrix I want to become a dominatrix I want to do this do that um how am I supposed to do that you're gonna get interviewed and probably they will assess whether you're fit or not but because we live in the 21st century and everything is basically
10:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And I did a lot of research.
10:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I followed a bunch of dominatrices.
10:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I was just like, I went straight into it, you know, I was looking at their content, um, trying to like, see what they're talking about, how they're talking about it, the psychology of it.
10:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I read a bunch of articles.
10:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I read some books, you know, I saw a bunch of movies and documentaries.
10:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I was just like, I'm just gonna give it a shot.
10:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just gonna try and see.
11:01
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, most of the things right now are online.
11:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's way easier to, you know, get it just of it.
11:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it's up to you or whether you can keep on there.
11:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And that first time was it somebody's dungeon, how did that work?
11:23
[SPEAKER_01]: You like call us somebody up in?
11:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So no, actually no, so I started right before COVID basically.
11:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So that wasn't even an opportunity to go to a dungeon, like everybody was stuck at home, born as hell.
11:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And so a lot of people were exploring themselves, their interests.
11:47
[SPEAKER_02]: their kings online and so I was there to begin with but like before that I would actually do in person sessions as in calls which means people would come to my place or also they would book a hotel room or something like that or it could be also public which not always can work but yeah
12:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So I actually didn't start off in a junction.
12:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not like a classically trained Dominate Tricks.
12:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I would assume there's way more of those in America or in bigger cities where it's established.
12:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Where like sex work is a little bit more normalized, who does that?
12:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I've heard you, and I'm so naive in this department, so I hope you forgive my questions, and I hope the audience forgives me for asking certain questions.
12:50
[SPEAKER_01]: When I think about sex work, I think about sex, but when I think about dominatrix work, I'm not sure I think about sex, but does it involve sex?
13:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So sex work is, I think, mostly it's work with connection.
13:15
[SPEAKER_02]: There is, like, sex work is a huge umbrella term, you know, full service sex workers, which are,
13:23
[SPEAKER_02]: escorts and people who do engage in penetrative sex.
13:29
[SPEAKER_02]: But dominatrices not necessarily fulfill that requirement.
13:36
[SPEAKER_02]: In Germany though there's this phrase or this term called bizarre ladies who are basically kinky companions who also are full service sex workers.
13:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So they do
13:50
[SPEAKER_02]: in penetrative sex or sexual encounter.
13:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Dominate traces are mostly engaging in, you know, more like niche practices and fetishes and kinks.
14:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So it doesn't necessarily involve any type
14:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And do I permission to ask if you engage in that?
14:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
14:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the thing is, so sex work or what I provide, or what dominators is provide is very much.
14:38
[SPEAKER_02]: close or like it is a part of human sexuality.
14:42
[SPEAKER_02]: But that human sexuality is very niche.
14:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, a lot of people derive sexual pleasure from things that do not involve penetrative sex at all.
14:53
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people have, for example, a foot fetish, you know, and that thing that fetish is such a
15:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Interesting to them that they, so interesting to them that they don't really feel attracted or if you don't need to have any penetrative sex at all.
15:15
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason I ask that is because I can only imagine when I'm, if I'm in the room and I'm a participant, that I, I,
15:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that the link between the activity of being dominated or being a sub.
15:37
[SPEAKER_01]: The ultimate end goal for me, as I imagine, it would be to, like, there has to be a climax, right?
15:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And climaxing sexually would be to release.
15:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's how I think of it.
15:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if we can get off, yeah.
15:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so there can be a release.
15:58
[SPEAKER_02]: of certain type, but ultimately it's about the dominant, the dominant nearing part that decides whether you get any release at all.
16:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's also a lot of practices where the denial is the point of it.
16:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And is that negotiated before we start our relationship?
16:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Because why would I, or is it a mystery to kind of like, in the air?
16:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Because if it's a mystery, then wouldn't that be a bigger turn on?
16:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so, why would I, why would I agree to not, or to know or not know before I go in?
16:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, is that something we talk about?
16:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, so typically, there is always a negotiation of like you speak about rules, about agreements.
16:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And there is, obviously, there has to be consent to what is going to happen to you or not.
17:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's obviously there's also a huge gray area where the submissive decides, but let's the dominant decide because that's the power exchange.
17:12
[SPEAKER_02]: That's like what dominating somebody is about.
17:16
[SPEAKER_02]: That they put so much trust into you to decide what is ultimately going to happen to them and they have to respect your decision because you're the dominant.
17:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So
17:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, if there are instances where obviously it's negotiated that you're going to climax and then maybe a dominant decides how you're going to climax under which circumstances, but then also most of my subs, basically know that it's up to me whatever.
17:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And they know that that's how it's supposed to be because that's how I own great.
18:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to process that.
18:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm paying a lot of money and you get to control me.
18:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
18:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's so difficult.
18:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And because I have that, like I have a very rebellious nature about allowing somebody to do that, I don't even know.
18:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I want, I'm a white, I'm a white, a brat.
18:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's like definitions for this stuff.
18:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're a clinical brat.
18:36
[SPEAKER_02]: No, like, yeah.
18:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So people who are subusive and rebellious, you would call them brats.
18:41
[SPEAKER_02]: But that basically means they're rebelling against whatever the dominant says.
18:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's like the problem.
18:50
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a part of a frame more, too.
18:58
[SPEAKER_02]: That is also a framework, obviously, what the graph basically wants is to be punished.
19:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
19:07
[SPEAKER_01]: How much of this role playing?
19:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Say, I imagine like, in order for a session to be good, I imagine that I have to be good at my role as a submissive in order for you to be good at your role.
19:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But,
19:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Does there ever happen where the person who's paying is not really good at it and then they giggle and they laugh and they're like, you know, they can't really get into the role or is everybody that comes in paying good money and they are really being part of the dynamic that you that, you know, this is set up for.
19:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you're paying good money, where would you give it?
19:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, that's like, you know,
19:56
[SPEAKER_02]: you are investing good money to get an experience that you want to experience, right?
20:04
[SPEAKER_02]: So I cannot really imagine somebody not being able to get into that space, especially if there is a long process of basically you being that did, you being interviewed, you being trained online maybe even, you know, that's what I do.
20:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I like,
20:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So, it's quite hard to get to me because I have to basically see that you really want this and you really are embodying whatever I want you to embody before I grant you the opportunity to see me.
20:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you do turn clients away?
20:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Cha!
20:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I also sent them to spare me.
20:49
[SPEAKER_02]: In any way, my case is...
20:53
[SPEAKER_01]: What would make you send somebody to therapy?
20:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So, when was that the last time?
21:03
[SPEAKER_02]: When I see that somebody doesn't really feel submissive because it's what they're confident about, but it's because they're insecure about themselves.
21:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that needs to be addressed in therapy first.
21:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like being submissive to a woman or to a dominant is something that you should be proud of because it means that not only you respect the dominant side, but you also respect whatever you are.
21:38
[SPEAKER_02]: a submissive person, somebody who, I mean, I think it needs especially as a man, it needs a lot of basically figuring out and alignment with you being a submissive person.
21:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I think today's society patriarchy is putting a lot of emphasis on men being the dominant powerful and motionless, you know, whatever cliche you can figure out or think about a man.
22:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like in many, for many men, I think it's really hard for them to come to terms with the fact that they're submissive.
22:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, are you saying all men have submissive tendencies?
22:34
[SPEAKER_02]: They live.
22:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So we all have it in us.
22:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, then what kind of men typically show up for this?
22:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it isn't it's not cheap And I think it's not cheap and it requires a very complex mind So you're not dealing with like the average Joe on the street You can you can you with a average Joe on the street it depends on probably like where
23:10
[SPEAKER_02]: their submission comes from or what type of submission it is, because you can also have a lot of submissive fetishes who are basically fetishizing submissions, then there's a lot of lifestyle submissives or people who just know that they want to be led as a lifestyle.
23:33
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think you can come across a submissive person across every animal or every part of society.
23:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I've had people who are blue color but also CEO, stalker.
23:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
23:54
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, VCs.
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I imagine more of your client, as just my imagination, that they are high powered men, but you're saying it's not necessarily the case, but I imagine more high powered men are into this than the average person on the street.
24:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I think that's in this.
24:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
24:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's in this.
24:19
[SPEAKER_02]: It's more like a high-powered man can afford it.
24:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
24:22
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's also a lot of just average joes with average salaries who want to submit to
24:31
[SPEAKER_02]: somebody that they believe to be a superior to them, or somebody that they just adore worship, or align with what they perceive as something more important than themselves.
24:49
[SPEAKER_01]: The problem I'm having in this conversation is I have like a thousand questions going on at once.
24:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so many questions.
24:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder what the life cycle of each client is because when I think about this, I'm like, all right, I'll go for four years and you know, or I'll go for eight years.
25:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Or is it a situation where you have like clients that you have been seeing
25:14
[SPEAKER_01]: from day one and you just see them forever because they're just like part of your family now and this is part of the routine of sort of being a wife to this man or you being the husband or the controller that he needs for the rest of his life and you're always going to be in it.
25:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there are some people that have been in my life since day one.
25:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So eight years.
25:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's, you know, sometimes they pop in pop out.
25:47
[SPEAKER_02]: There are, um, you know, seasons, there are times where they stick around, but obviously they can have stuff going on and they dip out, you know, and then they dip back in, um, then there's also like these impulsive
26:03
[SPEAKER_02]: people who will come in, it gets really intense and they just never return or maybe return out of the blue after four years.
26:13
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also like because of online dynamics and because it's
26:23
[SPEAKER_02]: whatever you want basically online.
26:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a lot of these compulsive submissives, compulsive gooners that will pop in pop out, spend a lot of money and then either they move onto the next or they just never go back, you never know.
26:45
[SPEAKER_01]: What about the way you look as an Asian woman as an advantage or disadvantage
26:57
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what, um, for me, I think it's an advantage.
27:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It depends on how you approach it, because racial fetish is a huge thing in society, in general, not only in thinking.
27:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
27:17
[SPEAKER_02]: do you do you take it personally?
27:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I used to take it really personally.
27:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a lot of unpacking to do there.
27:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I do think it's an advantage for me because I do realize what
27:34
[SPEAKER_02]: type of dynamics, it can create, and so I try to make them work for me and for my benefit.
27:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it is a advantage for me, especially because of beauty, privilege, and look is so obviously it also matters not only that you're an Asian woman, but that you're good looking.
27:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Or any type of other good looking person, I think in this society, has
28:03
[SPEAKER_02]: a little bit easier or quite easier.
28:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, it does reflect in King a lot as well.
28:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I do believe that good looking people have it easier.
28:15
[SPEAKER_01]: In the business.
28:17
[SPEAKER_02]: In the business, but also generally, It's like a little down.
28:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
28:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And how have you had to mitigate this kind of information to your mom and dad and your family?
28:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It was great.
28:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was actually great.
28:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
28:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And you walked me through that conversation.
28:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You said it was great.
28:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to hear what you, how you, was there a gradual process?
28:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So you just sat them down one day and said, hey, I've been doing this for like two years now.
28:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just need to break the news.
28:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is what I'm going to be doing professionally.
28:56
[SPEAKER_02]: actually I've been doing that for three years and so for me I have to say I had never had a really big culture of communication with my parents.
29:09
[SPEAKER_02]: We were quite estranged or I don't know it's just like my grandparents you know having a sort of expectations for me and here it just
29:18
[SPEAKER_02]: you, it's hard to talk to your parents as if they were friends.
29:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I never had that.
29:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I do not know how that feels.
29:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have had our ups and downs.
29:36
[SPEAKER_02]: My parents, my dad, is like a very
29:42
[SPEAKER_02]: like, he's a dictator, it's like a dictator, like, type of guy, especially me as a daughter, you know, for his born daughter, I think he was, or for his born super fears, problematic daughter.
30:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he has some issues with him, but processing that, but, you know, because of that, because we didn't really have that much of a relationship that would feel very close, you know.
30:19
[SPEAKER_02]: But I did want to have that.
30:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I did want to be honest.
30:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I decided to tell my parents, so I also have a brother.
30:31
[SPEAKER_02]: who's 15 years younger than me.
30:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was also like my primary drive for my family to work in a way working would feel safe, in a way where we could all perceive our family as a family as a functioning unit.
30:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So three years into my work, I felt like I have enough confidence in myself and know myself and who I am, well enough,
31:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I could take on the risk of telling my parents and with the possibility that they would never speak to me again.
31:11
[SPEAKER_02]: But because the honesty was more important for me and I knew that
31:17
[SPEAKER_02]: It could backfire.
31:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I was going to be counting on the bag that I would be backfire, especially with my dad.
31:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I would just like pivot from there, from there.
31:27
[SPEAKER_02]: But so yeah, I actually had to Google.
31:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't do it.
31:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I had to google how to say dominate tricks in Vietnamese.
31:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was getting ready for it.
31:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I was at a stage where I was also doing really well and I just knew that I want to do this for as long as possible possibly for the rest of my life because it makes me feel good.
31:49
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes me feel like.
31:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a meaning that I have a purpose that this is something that makes sense to me because it is something where I'm sitting into that and I'm just me and it feels like me and so I was just thinking, so if this is me, how can I
32:12
[SPEAKER_02]: How can I not tell my parents that I'm finally happy?
32:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I was struggling a lot with depression and being really unhappy because this part of me, I was rejecting it for most of my life just so that I can appease whatever my dad was imagining for me.
32:29
[SPEAKER_02]: What a good daughter, a submissive daughter and a subservient to him and my family and getting married.
32:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I was like, fuck it, I'm gonna tell my parents, so I said my mom down.
32:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I immediately forgot how to say Dominate Tricks and Vietnamese.
32:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so I just like...
32:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So I just told her, you know, what mom?
33:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I beat men for a living and like, I get money for beating men for the... My mom thought I was a street fighter.
33:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how she got into it.
33:11
[SPEAKER_02]: She was just thinking that I got into some shady business.
33:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Me, a date, a date, and a woman street fighting people.
33:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So she started crying.
33:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Whoa, wow.
33:24
[SPEAKER_02]: She started crying.
33:25
[SPEAKER_02]: She thought that crying was like beating people for some month for you or something.
33:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So exciting.
33:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I told her it was absolutely consensual that they wanted, that they reached out for me, and they pay.
33:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I can explain that to her.
33:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I explained how I came across that.
33:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I told her that it makes me happy.
33:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I told her, don't tell dad, I want to tell her.
33:53
[SPEAKER_01]: She told her mom first, yeah.
33:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I was waiting for my dad to come home.
33:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And actually the thing is,
34:04
[SPEAKER_02]: So ever since I started this job, I wanted to throw it in my dad's base.
34:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to tell him, like, for three years straight, I was just like, so ready to tell him he, you know what dad, do you remember how he used to be the shit out of me?
34:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Now I do it to people from money, so thank you.
34:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And so he came home, and my mom just told him your daughter wants to tell you something.
34:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I threw that away and I told him, so, okay, I have to tell you something.
34:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I, first of all, I want to apologize to you because my entire life, I, I didn't, when I was younger, I didn't realize how much sacrifice you had to make for me to have education,
34:59
[SPEAKER_02]: to have a chance to have a better life than you did.
35:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And I really want to apologize for being so selfish when I was a kid.
35:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But this is my life now.
35:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And with the cards that I was dealt, this is what I did with it.
35:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And it makes me happy.
35:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So I do this for a living.
35:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just something that I will probably do for the rest of my life.
35:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was already seeing my dad.
35:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I really thought that my dad is just going to leave and he's not going to speak to me because that would not be the first time he did that.
35:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
35:39
[SPEAKER_02]: But he actually said next to me and he hugged me.
35:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And he told me the moment that you started speaking, I realized that you are your own person and you are fully grown and you know exactly what you want to do with your life in order to make sure yourself happy.
36:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've been seeing it before he even told us what you did that you became happier, that you're more joyful, that you are just doing better in life.
36:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
36:14
[SPEAKER_02]: He thanked me for sharing it with him, and then what came was he actually told me that he's actually just scared because he knows that even though I do this and people reach out to me, it's still men, and he said they can hurt me.
36:39
[SPEAKER_02]: even though they want like they reach out to me and they want what I offer but it's still meant and men and the men can hurt me and he knows it because he's a man.
36:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he said that the only thing in his life that he was really scared of was that I would never forgive him for what he did to me.
37:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it was a huge healing moment, which I think was also either stupid or very brave or both that I decided to do that, but had I not decide to do that, I don't think you would have the be having that conversation.
37:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so I think it was something that broke the cycle and, um, I was really happy that my parents yet again proved to me that they are more than I expected them to be.
37:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And has this improved your relationship with them to go out and eat with them to spend more time with them.
37:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Has it changed and moved the needle at all for you and them?
37:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it didn't happen over time, over night, over time.
37:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So because the culture of communication has to be nurtured throughout time, and we never had that.
38:03
[SPEAKER_02]: But it was a series of decisions, the decision to,
38:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Come back to Vietnam, unpack whatever feelings I have about Vietnamese society, about Vietnam, about my family, about the legacy of us as my parents being working class immigrants who took a Slovakia and took a group of legs.
38:34
[SPEAKER_02]: other family back in Vietnam and you know the way the society works there because obviously there's a lot of things that are cultural shock for me when I go to Vietnam and the curiosity that comes with it you know the career curious to you about my background about my grandparents about the war about how my family fair doing the war and before during colonialism
39:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So the curiosity and the openness helped me to spend more time with my parents and be more curious about their childhood, their upbringing, their youth, and texelokia.
39:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So today, when you guys have dinner together, what is it like?
39:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, most of the time, it's me deciding whether today I want to get willingly into a conversation about what it felt like to be in Czechoslovakia in the early 80s or I asked my mom,
39:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, well, I would just say she would she volunteered to free her country from imperialism.
40:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so yeah, my mom obviously said she didn't kill anybody, she would just help.
40:12
[SPEAKER_02]: But I was so bummed.
40:17
[SPEAKER_01]: The double matrix in you is like, ah, I want that lineage to go far back, killing people.
40:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you naturally have an internal state of violence that needs to be unleashed?
40:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I, you know what, I don't think so, but I think it's not a, it's not like,
40:43
[SPEAKER_02]: something that is in, like, that I have, like, that I was born with.
40:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that is, it's nurture.
40:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like you've done a lot of processing about how your relationship with your father is, but without him beating you, do you think this would still exist this sort of like this in it?
41:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it would still be there.
41:12
[SPEAKER_02]: It was still me there.
41:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember when I was three years old and in back and get numb and I was teaching little girls how to be boys.
41:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess there's like something in there but I don't think it's something that I was born with.
41:30
[SPEAKER_02]: It's something that I perceived.
41:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It's something like some imbalance that I perceived that I tried, maybe I didn't have words for it before, that I just thought was unjust.
41:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
41:45
[SPEAKER_01]: How much of this is physical and how much of this is mental control on the person you're dominating?
41:54
[SPEAKER_02]: So for me, most of the things are very much like logical and mental.
41:59
[SPEAKER_02]: There's obviously ton of domes that their practice is very physical.
42:07
[SPEAKER_02]: It's about corporal punishment.
42:10
[SPEAKER_02]: It's about restriction, like physical restriction.
42:13
[SPEAKER_02]: it's about beating the shit out of a guy, which I frankly would love to do from time to time also, but mostly my friend and the way that I operate is mostly based on mental domination and basically setting the context to be very much mental and psychological.
42:44
[SPEAKER_01]: you are not good enough or well not understanding psychology.
42:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I can imagine getting to the point where the client gets fully into the role.
43:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you ever find it to be difficult to get somebody to where they need to be?
43:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes sometimes I can see that there is a little bit of resistance, mostly because of their perception of themselves.
43:21
[SPEAKER_02]: It gets a little bit harder to get them where I want them to be or also where they want to be.
43:28
[SPEAKER_02]: But they aren't kind of stopping themselves because of these ingrained perceptions of themselves.
43:37
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to be on like, yeah, I think it's a lot of mental work and but it's also a lot of processing off like off the scene or like outside of the scene and also knowing how people behave, what people think, just like in general.
44:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I want to go back to that interview process.
44:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it like, like, you spend one hour a session to interview somebody?
44:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And you have, do you have, like, questions?
44:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Or do you just have a natural conversation to poke at where people are?
44:20
[SPEAKER_01]: How does that interview?
44:21
[SPEAKER_01]: How does that vetting process work?
44:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So my vetting process is way more lumpy, way more chill than like a high protocol, or...
44:37
[SPEAKER_02]: possibly a lot of pro-doms or old-cooled doms from a dungeon would have because for me I like to have at least like a little bit of charge you know in every single interaction that I have even if it's casual with the subs.
45:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So for me it's like a conversation you know we talk
45:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I ask about their background about their hobbies and then we move further into the kingsphere, into the fetishes, into the fantasies, into their experience, into, and then you just tap around and see what else can you basically create in your mind, the mental imagery of what they are.
45:31
[SPEAKER_01]: has sounds incredibly complex to do.
45:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like you work as a therapist, a film director, you know, all of these things that require an immense amount of trust and set up.
45:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
45:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, you're right.
45:53
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of chairs to be sitting on.
45:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
45:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you do this online, or does it always have to be in person?
46:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So I do most of these things online.
46:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I do have a lot of recurring dynamics online.
46:10
[SPEAKER_02]: It is very easy for me, because I'm a yapper too.
46:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Create like an ongoing narrative.
46:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I usually would love
46:23
[SPEAKER_02]: for that online dynamic to end up in a physical session, but that's not always possible because of geographic, right?
46:33
[SPEAKER_02]: So, a lot of people will suffice to them to have a dynamic online.
46:42
[SPEAKER_02]: But me personally, I prefer physical encounters.
46:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I can't imagine just doing this online.
46:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to be like in the room.
46:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to be like, I can't imagine just just going doing this virtual.
46:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to have physical touch and have it to be tactile.
47:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I do think that one of the reasons why a lot of people would like to keep this online is also because physicality makes it too real.
47:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Suddenly, like, you really are the sentences.
47:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Suddenly, you really are on your knees.
47:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Suddenly, you are really drooling.
47:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're like, you're ego-stripped.
47:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So like, what is left of you when your ego is stripped?
47:25
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's just you, you're bare soul.
47:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is such a vulnerable place to be.
47:32
[SPEAKER_02]: To yourself, even, let alone letting somebody else see it.
47:38
[SPEAKER_01]: speaking of letting somebody else see it.
47:42
[SPEAKER_01]: What about you?
47:43
[SPEAKER_01]: What about being in relationships with a boyfriend, a husband?
47:50
[SPEAKER_01]: How has that affected your own life?
47:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's very complex.
47:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So first of all being a dominatrix made my standards impossibly high.
48:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And I also don't really date people who are not submissive.
48:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So at least that's making it easier for me because I immediately know who I want to date or I don't.
48:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I would assume, or like for my past experience, when I did date people who were not
48:29
[SPEAKER_02]: really like fully lifestyle submissives.
48:33
[SPEAKER_02]: It would get hired.
48:35
[SPEAKER_02]: People find it really fascinating, my job until it starts basically threatening their egos because basically I'm like surrounded by my male attention all the time.
48:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very easy to get jealous.
48:51
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very easy to get confused.
48:54
[SPEAKER_02]: and about boundary, you know, and yeah, so if you do not have that worked out, you should not be dating a sex worker.
49:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But how do you know you have your mindset under control when you are in a relationship that
49:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Because none of us are fully in control of our emotions, right?
49:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we go back and forth, shit's messy, how do you know?
49:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it sounds like in the client and your relationship with client, it's a very strict infrastructure.
49:38
[SPEAKER_01]: But I can imagine it being that strict when you have a, when you're in relationship with somebody that you love.
49:47
[SPEAKER_02]: right um yeah so um it is a strict infrastructure and um you know these dynamics um when you are somebody's dominant and there's your submissive um yeah it can i mean you don't want i i i feel like sometimes it can also be blurred but
50:11
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like a constant, you know, self-assessment.
50:15
[SPEAKER_02]: It's always like processing.
50:17
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of communication.
50:20
[SPEAKER_02]: When I'm in a relationship, let's say it's a female relationship of a large.
50:25
[SPEAKER_02]: These relationships are way less strict.
50:32
[SPEAKER_02]: more similar to a vanilla relationship but there are still like some rules that apply or imply dynamic.
50:42
[SPEAKER_02]: People from the outside might conflate that relationship with just any other relationship but inside that relationship there are rules, there are boundaries and
50:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, am I answering, or did I slide somewhere up?
51:02
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, wait, but I just wanted to, so you only date women, is that what you said?
51:10
[SPEAKER_02]: No, if you may let relation, would it really, is a type of a relationship that has a dominant submissive dynamic?
51:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So if like female relationship means that a woman leads and the submissive collar.
51:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Woman always leads, whether it be a same-sex relationship, then the submissive is a woman, but I do not strictly date women usually my submissive is our men.
51:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, so a female relationship is basically that the woman is always in charge, and she calls the chance.
51:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when I think about chess players using their minds and looking out into sort of like the levels of ways you can get better, are there ways that some, like, is there ways that can, that can delineate
52:17
[SPEAKER_01]: how high up the chain you are in the work that you do, because I can't imagine going to somebody who's been doing it for three years versus 20 years.
52:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And are there levels to this that are like,
52:32
[SPEAKER_01]: officially kind of like classified like this is a level one.
52:36
[SPEAKER_01]: You're a level three.
52:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You can you get better at what you do and can you actually see where you need to be I guess
52:47
[SPEAKER_01]: How can I put this?
52:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I was trying to use a chess analogy where you know you're ranking, right?
52:54
[SPEAKER_01]: You're number 500 in the world, but in order to get to number 300 in the world, you got to do certain things to get.
53:01
[SPEAKER_01]: In order to get to number 2 in the world, you have to like, are there elevation steps that you can go through in the work that you do?
53:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course not.
53:16
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, ranking like those, but you definitely, you can, you should, obviously, like, you should be better to every day.
53:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the second thing over and over again, then you were, when you were three years in, I don't think there's any official ranking.
53:35
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you could probably go to like some fetish clip platforms to see who makes the most money,
53:46
[SPEAKER_02]: What you can see is, though, with every session, whether you can take that person deeper, whether you feel better about what you did, whether you can compare something that you did last year and you did now, whether it feels even more intense or even more just like,
54:08
[SPEAKER_02]: visceral, you know, so that's how I measure it.
54:11
[SPEAKER_02]: For me, it's the levels of intimacy that I can reach in a session, whether that intimacy can be as authentic as possible, whether that intimacy is very, very much bringing out the most, you know, like eager and submissive parts of people,
54:35
[SPEAKER_02]: so much more even that I want to just keep going and keep going further.
54:40
[SPEAKER_02]: It's something that is, you know, you have to kind of nerd yourself into it.
54:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you enjoy really like going deeper and deeper and like mastering your craft, for me it's like the mental play field, but for a lot of
54:59
[SPEAKER_02]: just plain bondage into suspension into like more complex seams into like
55:06
[SPEAKER_02]: insane roleplay into, you know, just like incredible complex scenes and situations, you know, that might be on your bucket list, you know, or like that you fantasize about, or that you dreamed of doing and somebody finally let you use their body, you know, as a canvas to do that.
55:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I find that like,
55:31
[SPEAKER_02]: incredible.
55:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like a journey that you yourself nerd yourself into and the people that are a part of it, get to experience and create, co-create that experience with you.
55:45
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I can find myself if I was doing your work falling in love with my clients so easily.
55:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Because especially the ones that you're working with them and you're like, oh my God, this person is so beautiful.
56:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They're doing the things that are so complex and they're just walking with me, told a toe every direction I give them, every step we take, there's a beauty in the way that they execute or the way that they're playing the role.
56:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you fall in love with clients?
56:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I do have crushes.
56:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I do have favorites.
56:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And I always find so much gratitude when people allow me to take them deeper, when they allow me to do more, when they allow me to use them better, you know, so I do get crushes, but these crushes are purely like,
56:45
[SPEAKER_02]: mental and they're like bound to that dynamic.
56:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, we also talk outside of the scene or whatever intense play is happening.
56:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I do find a lot of people very much like
57:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Almost all of the people that I encounter on a regular basis, I find them very cute and gorgeous in a way that they adore me.
57:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's very relational.
57:22
[SPEAKER_01]: This work in Vietnam, is it pervasive yet?
57:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it popular, have you explored the scene in Vietnam?
57:37
[SPEAKER_02]: No, so today, because I was thinking about this podcast, I was actually wondering how illegal it's sex work in Vietnam.
57:46
[SPEAKER_02]: It is quite illegal, I read about it.
57:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Very legal, yeah.
57:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, and I do remember like I always look on the internet here and there look what the scene is it like
58:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't really go to Vietnam.
58:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Often and every time I go to Vietnam, I have about 500 relatives that I have to visit.
58:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So I never get time for myself to explore whatever is happening outside of my family.
58:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So I sadly don't know much about the scene in Vietnam.
58:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I do know that there's a lot of Vietnamese dogs that do real-time sessions in Vietnam, but
58:23
[SPEAKER_02]: They're all face in.
58:25
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't show their faces to stay anonymous.
58:28
[SPEAKER_02]: They do have big followings when I Google or when I go on Twitter and I try to look for Vietnamese Doms, especially I've been finding a lot of Doms in Saigon.
58:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I would have, I think that I really wanted to approach some of them to just hang out with them, but because of the language
58:52
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think there is a huge potential there.
58:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we can imagine.
59:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, considering the colonial past of Vietnam and the interracial dynamic going on in Vietnam with sex tourism and just passport rows doing passport-broad stuff.
59:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Sounds like a...
59:23
[SPEAKER_01]: probably a cool place to kind of like set up shop because of how new it is, you know?
59:30
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what, I don't know if it's new.
59:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, set up shop.
59:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't want to risk that because I'm fully face out.
59:42
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, I like when I started, I just like realized one of my biggest commodity.
59:47
[SPEAKER_02]: She's was my face because I was a bottle before.
59:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So I just like went face out, not giving a single single care in the world.
1:00:02
[SPEAKER_02]: do think that that might be a big issue in Vietnam.
1:00:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Another thing is that I operate in a certain price range, which is very unaffordable for people in Vietnam unless there's some rich crypto pro expats.
1:00:20
[SPEAKER_01]: But there are a lot of, there are a lot of wealthy men in Vietnam today.
1:00:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, of course.
1:00:28
[SPEAKER_02]: As an independent, you know, Japan has a huge connection of PSM and Meldomination, but in Japan, it is considered, or it is perceived a little differently.
1:00:38
[SPEAKER_02]: It's more of a service for the man while I operate in a way that this is a lifestyle to me.
1:00:46
[SPEAKER_02]: So everybody has to submit to whatever my women at that moment.
1:00:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So in Japan, because I know a little bit more about it from, you know, people that I know, as dominators as in Japan, I know that it's a little more service-based.
1:01:02
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a little more like some rich dude comes to you and he tells you what he wants you to do to him and then you have to do it.
1:01:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Any Vietnam, I would assume it's a little bit similar, you know, with like high-ranking people there.
1:01:25
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when you're standing in line at a...
1:01:29
[SPEAKER_01]: a government agency, you have to redo your passport or your driver license, and you're looking at a man in front of you or behind you or you're like experiencing men in public in the wild.
1:01:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Does your brain switch to this mode of like calculating like, you know, you're running profiles in your head about this guy and you're like, and he's giving you a hard time and you're like,
1:01:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You can read him in a different way.
1:02:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Does that happen?
1:02:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And your computer is constantly running in real life in the wild.
1:02:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Or you are able to go, leave work behind.
1:02:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Does it bleed into your real life when you're reading, or meeting real men in real life?
1:02:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, sometimes.
1:02:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So for some of all, this skill is my commodity.
1:02:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to use it for free.
1:02:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's like one thing that stops me from trying to, you know, dominate people as a party trick, but second of all, I actually think it's way more beneficial for me to act like a clueless woman, so I coach wedge.
1:02:49
[SPEAKER_02]: and I can be a very innocent, clueless person.
1:02:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I have been trying to weaponize my incompetence as much as possible, so I can don't have to do anything.
1:03:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, so if you see me, and I like try to turn on that like weaponized incompetence, and I'm so sorry, I don't really know what to do with those.
1:03:11
[SPEAKER_02]: people are way more eager to help me than when I try to be arrogant about it, you know.
1:03:18
[SPEAKER_02]: But then again, it can be switched to the point where I will read you because I don't like you and because I need to set my boundaries.
1:03:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I try not to use that too much because then you never know.
1:03:33
[SPEAKER_02]: You never know what's going to happen.
1:03:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope that you had a good experience speaking with me and that it was what you expected in a conversation of exploration, because I took a lot from this, and I
1:03:52
[SPEAKER_01]: want to let you know you have no idea how appreciative I am to have you open up.
1:03:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It takes a lot of trust as well for you to do that, to open up and really answer all these questions so honestly and so open with me.
1:04:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to thank you for the conversation and I have a lot
1:04:19
[SPEAKER_01]: would love to, you know, in the future, sit back down and talk about this if you ever go to Vietnam or are finding yourself practicing in a country like the US, I would love to hear what changes you're going through as you're doing this work.
1:04:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for having me.
1:04:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I loved talking to you as well.
1:04:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there is so much more to impact, especially when it comes to power dynamics and feminism and patriarchy with my practice.
1:04:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you add for find yourself wanting to be curious, there's so many Vietnamese domes in San Francisco.
1:05:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I do know one person, but I don't, you know, I'm not in contact with them.
1:05:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, I know, through a family member.
1:05:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember them telling me they own a dungeon, like this dumb owns a dungeon.
1:05:16
[SPEAKER_01]: She was fairly young at when we all met.
1:05:19
[SPEAKER_01]: But very quiet, very intellectual, and you can tell there's a lot that she was thinking about, but didn't say much.
1:05:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really wanted to respect her space,
1:05:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are the most danger in it, because you never knew what they're thinking, I'm telling, but hit you.
1:05:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:05:42
[SPEAKER_01]: fascinating.
1:05:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just a facet.
1:05:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I had encountered them maybe twice and I thought that that was a very fun.
1:05:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But I, you know, wasn't doing the work that I'm doing now, but yeah, it's just a beautiful, it was a beautiful experience just to watch the moving the world and spend hours with our group and, you know, going out to dinners and stuff, but not saying much.
1:06:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But me knowing that she was a
1:06:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:06:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank you so much.
1:06:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:06:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, hopefully we can schedule something and talk about, you know, dynamics, gender dynamics and, you know, I want to get more into it.
1:06:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's sort of like the base line of the general questions, but there's so many more things that I'm interested in and talking to you about.
1:06:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I would love that.
1:06:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let me know.
1:06:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm letting you know now, so we're going to figure something out in the next few weeks.
1:06:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome, thank you so much.
1:06:47
[SPEAKER_00]: You too, thank you.
1:06:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to The Vietnamese with Kenneth Wyn.
1:06:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Special thanks to Brittany Tran, to Jane Wyn, Catherine Wyn, Tina Fam, Sydney Jamie and Crystal Tran.
1:06:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Please find us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at The Vietnamese Podcast.