Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / Why Your Kids Only Listen When There’s a Reward

Transcript

Why Your Kids Only Listen When There’s a Reward · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: How does motivation really work? What even is motivation? When
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: you want your child to be motivated to clean their room,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: unpack the dishwasher, wash the car, mow the lawn, be
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: nice to their brother or their sister, or just show
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: some respect, do their homework, read a book, you know,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: the stuff that we want the kids to be motivated for,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: and they seem to have no motivation at all for it.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: And yet they're so motivated to do other stuff like
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: annoy their sister or spend time on screens. You name it.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: The kids seem to be motivated for all the stuff
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: we don't want them to do and unmotivated to do
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: all the stuff we do want them to do. Today
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: on the Happy Families podcast, we get into the nitty
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: gritty of what motivation is, how it works, and how
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: we can help children to find the kind of motivation
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: that moves them, literally motivation means to move, that moves
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: them in the direction of action in areas that matter.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I can't wait for this conversation. It's next. Stay with us.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Happy Families podcast where you
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: get real parenting solutions every single day. This is Australia's
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: most downloaded parenting podcast. We're so grateful that you're motivated
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: to listen to it. We are Justin and Kylie Coulson,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: parents of six kids and the author of 11 books.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Quick question for you. Today's about motivation. How motivated are
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: you to record this podcast?
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: I can't believe you're asking me that.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I'm just asking, like on a scale of one to ten.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I was actually thinking about one of our children in
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: particular and thinking about her motivation scale. Here's a kid
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: who hates getting out of bed before, I don't know,
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: 10 o'clock in.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: The morning, maybe even 12. And we've never allowed it
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: with any of our other children. We're at number five now.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: We're just like, stay in bed if you want. It's
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: easier for us to deal with.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: I wasn't going to dob her in, but thanks a lot.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: And she recently started having an opportunity to work with
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: horses at three o'clock in the morning. And We haven't
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: had to set an alarm. I have not had to
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: get out of bed to wake her, to remind her, nothing.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: She's the one who's knocking on our door.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: She wakes us up at 3.35 and says, time to go.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: And the interesting thing is she was recently signed up
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: for an apprenticeship, which means that her relationship with that
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: position has shifted. And so all of a sudden we've
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: gone from a volunteer position, which she happily got up to,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: And was happy to give all the time that was
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: needed to now her motivation is horses and money. And
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: so when she goes, she's like, if I'm not getting
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: paid for this, I don't think I want to be there.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: There's an incredible quote that I stumbled upon years and
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: years ago from a researcher who said, who would have
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: thought that play could be turned into work by paying
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: someone to do it? That's paraphrase. It's not exactly right. Yeah.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: And it was the same with my radio career. I
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: volunteered at radio stations and did whatever I could, wherever
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I could for free for years. But once my radio
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: career began, I'm not going to do that unless you're
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: going to pay me. Like play became work because money
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: became involved. That intrinsic love and desire disappears. You also
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: quite deftly did not answer my question about how motivated
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: you are to record this podcast.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Were throwing shade at me because i looked like i
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: was unmotivated i was thinking about how i would respond
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: to not that question.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: You're just interpreting the question is that i don't know
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: why you would think that i would impugn such negative
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: motives i love being on the podcast we have.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: I love having opportunities to get paid.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: To talk to you i'm so glad that you haven't
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: reached the point where you say are you paying me
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: for this conversation no i don't want to talk to
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: you then Thank goodness for that. Our conversation today is
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: not about money, but it is about motivation. And I
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: want to unpack this thing that psychology researchers have developed
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: over the last 50 to 60 years called the motivation continuum.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: I love this conversation. We've had this conversation so many
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: times with our girls, and I see it play out
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: in our lives in so many ways. But where did
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: the idea of motivation come from in the first place?
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: So I mentioned in the intro that the idea of
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: motivation comes from, I think, I can't remember if it's
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Greek or Latin, but it means to move. It's the
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: same with emotion and motivation. It's all about movement. And motivation,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: when psychology got involved with the idea up until about
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: the 1970s, was always considered to be something outside of ourselves.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: It was about motivating people. So you create an environment
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: where somebody will be motivated. And the way you motivate
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: them is with carrots or sticks, with rewards or punishments.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: That's what we got motivational speakers from, I'm assuming.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Like if you can provide a big enough inducement, you
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: can move me from A to B.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I think about Tony Robbins. Right.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: And he's just full of energy. It's like- He's going
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: to move you.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. So essentially that idea of external
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: or extrinsic motivation is all there was. And There's a
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: special form of psychology that was all about the study
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: of this kind of motivation. It was called behaviorism. Behaviorism
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: basically argued well into the 1970s, and there are still
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: pure behaviorists even today, argues that you can get people
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: to do stuff because of the rewards that you wave
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: under their nose or the sticks that you brandish above
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: their head. I'm going to hurt you or I'm going
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: to reward you. Either way, get this done. A lot
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: of people still, if you talk to people, they're like, well,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: that's how the world works. That's why I go to work.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: That's what my employer does. If I don't do the work,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I don't get paid. And so they'll say, I'm doing
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: the work because I'm extrinsically motivated. But in the 1970s,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: a couple of researchers started to talk about this thing
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: called intrinsic motivation. Before that, there was no such thing
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: as intrinsic motivation. No one talked about intrinsic motivation. It
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: hadn't been studied. Of course, it existed, but it hadn't
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: been studied. And intrinsic motivation is this idea that I'm
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: doing it because I want to. I'm doing it because
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: it's inside of me. And the behaviorist said, no, there
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: is nothing inside of you. You've just had all these
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: external factors create a thought that now makes you believe
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: that you're doing it because of what's inside you, but
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: it's actually the environment that's making you do it. So
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: this has been a big debate.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: Well, yes, I can see.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, you've been swayed.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: I can see how that works, right? Our daughter doesn't
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: get up at three o'clock in the morning because she's
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: going to help people. She's getting up because there are horses. Right.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Like that's. part of the environment and she will scoop
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: poop and she will feed and she will get complete,
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, when she gets into my car, put
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: a peg on. It's so bad. She will do all
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: of that, not because she loves that, but for the
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: chance to be in a horse's space. Right.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: She loves the horses. So that's the intrinsic part. Okay.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: So let's move to today because I don't want to
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: spend too much time on the history of it. The
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: motivation continuum says, well, let's complicate things a little bit,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: but actually this makes so much more sense. There are
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: three other kinds of motivation, or four technically, but we're
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: only going to talk about three others, that sit in
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: between those two extremes. Everything's always so extreme. And when
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I talk to teachers, I keep on saying to them,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: we don't want to have classrooms that are built on
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: external motivators. Like if you turn your classroom into a
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: game show or into a threatening environment, if it's all
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: about punishments and rewards, It's going to be really hard
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: work for you and really hard work for the kids.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: The kids aren't learning because they want to. They're learning
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: because they have to. And even with rewards, like rewards
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: don't encourage kids to do the learning. Rewards encourage kids
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: to get rewards. So that's the external stuff. The intrinsic stuff,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: I just, I'm constantly saying to teachers, intrinsic motivation in
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: the classroom is too high a bar. You're not going
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: to find a way to get every student to be
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: intrinsically motivated to do calculus or algebra or to write
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: essays or to run the cross country. or to do
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: the science experiment. There will be some who just say,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: I love maths so much that I would read a
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: maths textbook for fun on the weekend. There will be
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: some like that. But generally speaking, you won't find intrinsically
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: motivated people in a school. And it's the same at
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: home with the dishwasher or putting the bins out or
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: cleaning the room or being nice to sisters. The intrinsic
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: motivational bar is simply too high. So after the break,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about the three other forms of
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: motivation that matter and how we can help get stuff done,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: how we can improve and change motivation levels in our
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: home to make our family work better and to help
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: our kids be happier. That's next. We're back. This is
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: the Happy Families podcast, Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast, talking
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: about motivation today.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever said this before on the podcast, but- Yep.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: If you've got a pen and paper, take some notes
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: because this is really good stuff.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: I appreciate the Mrs. Happy Family's endorsement. We've talked with
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: our kids around the dining table and the living room
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: and in the car about these levels of motivation again
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: and again and again, and they know these words. So
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: let's go back to the beginning. After external motivation, I'm
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: doing it because someone's making me or I'm doing it
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: because I'm going to get a reward. There's this thing
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: called introjected motivation. Introjected motivation is I'm doing it because
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: I'm supposed to, because I should, because I I just
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: feel like I must do this.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: So I eat Brussels sprouts because I know I should.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: They're good for me, but I don't love them.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I don't eat Brussels sprouts.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: No, I was going to say, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: it's I'm not eating the chocolate cake in the staff
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: room today because I said that I was going to
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: go on a diet. No one's making me abstain. I'm
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: making myself abstain. But it's kind of like you've become
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: the policeman or you've become the school teacher, the schoolmaster.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: You've become– the parent of you to make this stuff happen.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: You're not doing it because you know deep down that
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: this is a good thing to do and that it's
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: the right thing to do and it's what you want
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: to do. You're doing it because you have to. It's
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: kind of like- It's like an obligation. Yeah. Yeah. Duty
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: is the word that I would use there. And generally,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: when people act out of obligation, act out of duty,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: they don't do it with a smile on their face.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: They not thinking, oh my goodness, my life is so full, complete,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: and rich because I'm doing this thing. They're doing it
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: kind of.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Miserably, but- That's kind of me and chocolate right now. Right.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: You're abstaining from chocolate because you just- You know you're
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: not supposed to eat it because you're trying to be healthy. Yeah. Okay, great.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: So the next level.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: It feels like you're dragging your feet.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: It's hard work.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, through quicksand, mud, slush. The next one is the
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: one that I really want to focus on. After extrinsic,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: we go to introjected. The next level up is called
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: identified motivation. And I would say that this is the
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: motivational workhorse. If you're dealing with an introjected child, it's
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: hard work. You're no longer on their back so much.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: They're kind of making themselves do it, but they really
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: hate it.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, and they'll let you know.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: And they'll let you know about it, absolutely. But something
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: happens when kids move from introject to identified. And this
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: is what it is. When you identify the value of
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: an activity or a behavior or whatever the thing is,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: you begin to internally endorse it. whatever you need to
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: do to get there. And so let's take your chocolate example.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: If I say, I really value my health. Nothing feels
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: as good as feeling fit feels. Or I know that
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I feel much more vital when I keep off the
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: processed sugary stuff. I just, I've identified that and I
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: value feeling vital and healthy and energized more than I
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: value the taste of chocolate, even though I love chocolate.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: What happens is you start to endorse the idea that
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: abstaining from chocolate is highly valued. And because you've identified
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: that you value this, no one ever has to start
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: cracking the whip and you don't even have to crack
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: the whip on yourself anymore. You just go, yeah, I
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: just value my health more than I value the flavor
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: of the chocolate. Even though I like chocolate, I value
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: my health more. And all of a sudden you've moved
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: to endorsement. You've moved to this situation where you say,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: my ego is not involved anymore. This isn't about duty.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: This is just about improving myself and I value improving
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: myself done. If you can help your children to identify
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: the value of staying off their screen, going to bed early,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: treating their sister or their brother with kindness and respect,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: getting their reading done, doing their music practice, participating in
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: family activities and events. Once they identify the value, you
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: don't have to be on their case anymore. It changes
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: the game. There's this conversation that Alfie Cohn has. He says,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: the question isn't how motivated is your child. The question is,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: how is your child motivated? And if they're motivated extrinsically,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: it's always going to be hard work and you're always
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: going to have to have surveillance on them.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Well, not only that, you're going to have to have
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: lots of carrots.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Lots of bribes. And it's just
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: painful hard work for you. If your child is motivated introjectedly,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: then the surveillance can ease off a little bit, but
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: your child's not doing anything because it feels good. They're
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: doing it because they're duty bound. And yeah, that's better
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: than external, but It's still pretty hard yakka for them.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: It takes a toll. And research shows that it literally
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: takes a cognitive and emotional toll on them. But once
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: they get to identified, they're basically going, yeah, there's value
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: in this. I guess I'm in. And it doesn't even
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: mean that they like it, but they just get that
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: it matters. So they're on board.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Is it possible that you could identify with the fact
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: that chocolate is not good for you?
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Right. And.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Recognize all of the benefits and some days sit in
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: that place of, I just don't eat chocolate. I'm not
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: that person.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: And then other days fall short.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Asking for a friend. Yeah. Motivation changes, right? You're not
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: constantly identified or whatever the next ones are that I'm
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: going to talk about. You're not constantly there. Depending on
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: the day, depending on how tired you are, depending on
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: what's just happened in terms of conflict and tension with
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: your loved ones or with a boss, that can impact
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: the way that you're motivated.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: I know we're talking about me and chocolate, but I'm
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: asking that because I see it in our children all
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: the time. They identify with something, a principle or a
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: standard or just a way of being.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: I want to get on with my sisters. I like
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: it when our home feels friendly and kind.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: And you can see it. They understand it on all levels.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: And some days they're great. And other days, it's just like,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't know that they're the same kid.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that they had identified the value in that. And
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: that's because on that day, they've forgotten what they value.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: It's actually a question of values, right? And if I've
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: forgotten what I value because my sister has just been
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: snappy and snarky toward me, if I forget that I
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: really do value kindness, I might snap back or I
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: might go, oh, I'm going to do the right thing
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: because I'm supposed to here. And I'm duty bound to
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: grip my teeth and get, but there's real animosity and
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So We can slide up and
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: down the motivational continuum. This is not static.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: So it's fluid.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: It's dynamic because life is dynamic. If I wake up really,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: really tired, research shows that my hormones and my brain … Oh,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: you have some of those? I do. My brain circuitry
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: and my neurotransmitters are going to function differently today than
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: they did yesterday when I got enough sleep. And therefore,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: when I'm confronted with trials and challenges and chocolate …
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Which is where you were about to go. It's possible
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: that my motivation is going to shift. The way that
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I'm motivated today may be different to the way that
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: I was motivated yesterday.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Might be jam and cream donuts today. Anyway.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Okay. So we've got identified. Identified is the workhorse. That's
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: where we want to get the kids to. If they
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: can identify the value. We've done most of the work.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: And now they will just go, okay, I get it.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: And they're the key words. Yeah, I get it. I
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: get it. Therefore, I will. I'm not being forced to
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: do it. I'm not doing it out of duty. I
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: get it. I'm in. The next kind of motivation, and
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: we need to wrap this up because time is done,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: is integrated motivation. Integrated motivation is when you get to
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: the point where you say, this is who I am.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: It's part of me.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: You go from riding your bike to being a bike rider.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: You go from running to being a runner.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's pretty rare that I wake up and say, no,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: I just don't feel like riding today. I'm a cyclist.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: I love putting on my Lycra. I love looking at my-
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Don't go there. Shaped legs. in the mirror and saying, oh,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go for another ride and they're going
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: to look even better at the end of this. I
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: wish there was a camera right now. So that's integrated.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Integrated is when you do it because it's who you are.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: There are still some days though, where even though it's
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: who you are, you might say, oh gee, this is
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: really hard, but I identify the value. So you slide
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: back to identify, but at least you're still in. It's
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: pretty rare that somebody who is genuinely integrated when it
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: comes to their motivational style or their regulation style for
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: a particular activity would be just doing it out of duty.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: It might happen from time to time, but it's rare.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: And it would be very, very rare that they would
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: only be doing it because of the reward they could
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: get for it or to avoid punishment. So the further
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: down that end of the motivation continuum you go, the
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: less likely it is that you're going to slide down
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: the other end. So while it is dynamic, while it's
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: not static, the movement isn't usually too extreme. And then
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: the last one is intrinsic. And intrinsic means I do
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: it because I love it. That's me and surfing. It's
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: me and spending time with you. No one has to
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: bribe me. I don't do it out of duty. I've
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: never looked at my surfboard and gone, oh, I really
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: should take it out in the water. I don't even
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: do it because I say I identify that there's value
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: in getting out in the water and having some nature
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: in my life. Or I identify there's value in me
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: talking to my wife right now. It's the right thing
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: to do. No, it's number one, who I am. It's integrated.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: And number two, I love it. It's intrinsic. Like I
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: check the surf every day. And if the surf is on,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: I'm there. I'm not going to go for a bike
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: ride that day because I love surfing. Surfing is my
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: number one. That's my joy. If I get to spend
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: time with you, you've got time for me, I'm there.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: I can't think of anything I'd rather do than go
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: for a walk, grab a treat with you, one of
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: those jam and cream donuts that we're not eating. Go
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: and buy some lunch or just go for a walk
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: along the beach or along the path or walk around
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: the block with the dog because it means that I
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: get to be with you. That's intrinsic. And so when
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: we want our kids to be motivated, The name of
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: the game is not that we want them to be motivated,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: but it's how we want them to be motivated or regulated.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: And if we can get them to identify it, or
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: even better, integrated or profoundly intrinsically regulated, we just don't
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: have to crack the whip anymore. And that comes to conversations.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: So if we wanted to just kind of put this
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: into real life terms, how this plays out. In our house,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: we believe that you're part of a family and as
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: part of a family, you just get in and you help.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: But so many families choose to pay children to do jobs.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: And as soon as you add a dollar figure to
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: a job.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: It becomes extrinsic.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: It totally, it undermines the whole value of being part
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: of a team and just Getting in, mucking in, doing
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: what needs to be done when it needs to be done.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: And the good feeling of doing a job well done.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: So Emerson said the reward of a job well done
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: is to have done it.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: But once you start paying somebody, once you start to
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: bring in external motivators, people start doing the thing. It's
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: like when you say, do this and you get that.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: The focus is not on this. The focus is on that.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Because I want the outcome. I want the that. I
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: want the money. I want the trip to the park.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I want the time with my friends. I want the screen.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: So the whole idea here is, We have conversations with
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: our kids where they start to identify that there's value
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: in doing this. There's value in being together. There's value
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: in making a contribution. There's value in helping out. And
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: that can be a pretty hard sell sometimes. And that's
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: where the three E's come in. For those of you
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: who have listened to the pod for a while, you
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: know about the three E's. Three E's of effective discipline
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: is what gets you to identify it. Because you say, well,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: where are you up to? Oh, here's what I need.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: So how are we going to work this out in
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: a way that we can feel good about? How can
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: we problem solve this so that you can see that
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: there is value in doing this? That's really what the
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: three A's of effective discipline are about.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: What I love about that is it's a conversation about
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: bringing your children into the solution.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Precisely. We could talk about this for a lot longer.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Shameless plug, my brand new book, Boys, Building Strong Young
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Men from the Inside Out, has two massive, really, really
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: detailed and helpful easy to understand, easy to follow chapters
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: about this motivation continuum. Because if we need to motivate
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: anyone the right way, it's our boys. That's it for today.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: We're back tomorrow with more on the Happy Families podcast,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: which is produced by Justin Roulon from Bridge Media. Mim
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Hammonds provides our admin and other support. And if you
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: would like more info to make your family happier, you'll
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: find all of it at happyfamilies.com.au.