Latest / Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh / Are you dying for your career?

Transcript

Are you dying for your career? · Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh

0:03
Welcome to another episode of Chatting with the Experts TV show and podcast where
0:09
I speak with amazing women from Africa, from the Caribbean, and in the diaspora.
0:16
These women are successful professionals and successful entrepreneurs, and they
0:22
share my mission, which is to educate, empower, and encourage women globally.
0:31
Today, we are going to be talking about when success becomes an addiction, and
0:37
my guest who will be joining me in a few minutes says that as a psychologist
0:42
and leadership coach specializing in introverted women in leadership,
0:48
she has seen firsthand how work addiction, which she says is not just
0:53
busyness, but it's a real behavioral addiction disproportionately affects
0:59
high achieving introverted women.
1:03
She says her research and clinical work show that introverts are at the higher
1:08
risk for workaholism, and especially when women are navigating corporate
1:16
spaces, this can become a perfect storm.
1:21
I'll tell you about her.
1:22
She's a certified leadership coach, an organizational consultant, and a
1:29
psychotherapist, with over 25 years of experience helping introverted
1:35
women rise to executive leadership.
1:39
She blends psychology, business strategy, and real world experience to empower
1:47
women to lead with confidence and impact.
1:51
She's a Brooklyn native with Proud Bajan, which means Barbadian roots and is the
1:58
founder of TheChangeDoc, LLC, and she holds both a PhD in Counseling Psychology
2:08
and an MBA from Cornell University.
2:14
Please welcome to Chatting with the Experts, Dr. Nicole Bryan.
2:25
Hi Paula.
2:27
Thank you so much for having me.
2:28
I'm so excited to be here and to have this conversation with you today.
2:33
I am so excited as well because you know, speaking with you offline, we
2:39
talked about how work addiction is real.
2:42
It's not just a dedication, it's real.
2:46
So we are gonna be touching on that today.
2:48
You said you've done your research, so I'm not gonna say why do you say so, but what
2:52
has your research shown you about this?
2:56
So I think what is really interesting about work addiction
3:00
and probably what sets it apart from other behavioral addictions.
3:04
So there's other, you know, behavioral addictions like sex addiction or game
3:09
addiction gambling addiction, like all of those are also real addictions.
3:14
But I think what's unique about work addiction is that it's the one addiction
3:19
that society actually embraces.
3:23
Like we reward that addiction unlike some of the others that I just mentioned.
3:28
And because of that, it's a real conundrum particularly for women
3:33
in general, who we have fought for our place in the workforce, right?
3:38
Particularly in the United States, the Caribbean our in Africa, we have we don't
3:44
realize how recent it has been that we as females are, you know, have been a
3:51
part of the paid workforce, I should say.
3:53
We've always been a part of the workforce, but a part of the paid workforce.
3:58
But with work addiction, some of that aspiration, some of our desire
4:04
to be successful, some of our desire to prove ourselves has not only made
4:11
us high achievers, but also led to some of us being addicted to work.
4:18
And because of that addiction and because we are now in the workforce, the paid
4:24
workforce, we get rewarded all the time for being more addicted, right?
4:30
For giving more time and energy and not being able to stop working.
4:35
We get rewarded by the salaries that we receive, the bonuses that we receive,
4:39
the job titles that we receive.
4:42
And the more accolades, the more certifications, the more education.
4:45
All of those things kind of feed our desire, our internal drive
4:51
to be even more successful.
4:53
And we don't see that type of constant reward with other addictions like gambling
4:59
addictions or sex addiction, et cetera.
5:01
Right.
5:01
We chase the high, but every, at every intersection, we get some type of prodding
5:09
that helps us continue to do our work addiction behaviors versus having to stop.
5:16
I personally dealt with work addiction myself.
5:20
I think one of the things that people don't necessarily always understand.
5:27
We will hear people say, oh, I'm a work addict, or I'm a workaholic.
5:31
That's usually what they say I'm a workaholic.
5:33
And it's bragging rights for them, right?
5:34
And when people say that, they are usually meaning that they work long hours.
5:40
They work long hours.
5:41
So if your typical work hours in your country is 35 or 40 hours a
5:46
week, a work of someone who says they're a work at a workaholic will
5:50
be working 60, 70, 80 hours a week.
5:54
But they say that without recognizing that working long hours is just working long
6:00
hours, that's not necessarily the meaning that you are truly addicted to work.
6:07
I realized that I was addicted to work probably in my late thirties.
6:12
And I realized that I was addicted to work.
6:16
Yes, I was working very long hours.
6:18
But there are other indications of being a workaholic, right?
6:23
Truly being addicted to work that people don't necessarily know.
6:27
And so if someone's listening to this right now and they're like,
6:30
hey, I wonder if I'm a workaholic.
6:32
I would ask you to think about being compulsive about work
6:37
meaning that even when you want to stop working, you don't, right?
6:42
So it means yes, you are working long hours, you're probably working double
6:47
what your job actually requires of you.
6:51
Another indication or symptom could be that when you wanna stop, you don't stop.
6:58
Another indication could be that if you have relationships, your personal
7:03
relationships outside of work are being damaged because you are working so much,
7:10
meaning you're either not spending the enough time with your partner, your
7:14
children, your parents, et cetera, or when you are spending time when you're
7:19
not working, technically not in the office or not actually on the clock for
7:24
the job, you are still thinking about work, so you're physically not there.
7:29
But your mind is still there.
7:31
You're planning the next meeting.
7:33
You're retelling a conversation that you had with a colleague the prior week.
7:38
You are strategizing on how you're gonna tackle a certain project all while you're
7:44
at the dinner table with your family or you're out shopping or something, right?
7:49
All of these are potential symptoms of you being work addicted,
7:55
not just working long hours.
7:57
I, in my thirties realized that even though I wanted to stop
8:03
working, I couldn't, right?
8:06
Meaning that even though I wanted to pull back on the number of hours
8:09
that I was working, I just physically could not make myself do it.
8:14
And it's really easy to tell the story that, oh, it's my company that, you
8:19
know, it's just this project that requires me to work once this project
8:23
is over, I'll be back to, you know, I'll cut back on my hours, or maybe
8:27
it's my boss that is requiring me to work so long, so hard all of the time.
8:33
Or we tell ourselves it's the company culture.
8:36
But when you move company cultures or when you move or we shift your boss,
8:40
you have a new boss or the project is over and your behavior is still the
8:44
same, you have to eventually admit to yourself that it's not those environmental
8:50
things that the problem is with you.
8:52
And that's what happened to me.
8:54
And that's what led me to research work addiction and become an expert in it.
9:01
Interesting.
9:03
But you know, I'm gonna come back to the same point again.
9:06
Sure, sure.
9:06
Why does research show that introverted women are more vulnerable to this?
9:11
Ah, it's because of the way introverts operate in the world, right?
9:16
So in being an introvert is a personality trait.
9:20
And we can argue whether personality traits are learned or innate or whatever.
9:25
I think is a combination of both.
9:26
But the way introverts work in the world or some traditional
9:30
characteristics of introverts is that we get our energy internally, right?
9:36
And we don't get it externally.
9:38
We rejuvenate ourselves from having time alone, right?
9:41
That's one characteristic.
9:43
Another characteristic of introverts is that we think a lot, we are overthinkers.
9:49
We reflect a lot and that usually happens when we spend time by ourselves.
9:54
And so I think that the correlation between someone being an introvert
10:00
and them being more susceptible to becoming work addicted is because we
10:07
as introverts spend a lot of time in our heads, and when we spend a lot
10:11
of time in our heads, that gives us more room to ruminate over something.
10:16
And when we ruminate one thing that we will attach ourselves to, is
10:22
our work as part of our identity.
10:24
And so all of those factors, I think is what makes introverted women
10:30
more susceptible than most other people to becoming work addicted.
10:37
That makes sense.
10:40
Yeah.
10:40
You know, a lot of time is spent in your head or one likes being
10:45
by oneself, and therefore, you know, work becomes your identity.
10:51
And so spending time thinking about work, even boost your own identity,
10:57
you know, you can justify it and you can see the reason why it's, you
11:04
know, you are constantly working.
11:07
Yes.
11:07
Even though, as you said, you could be at a dinner table, but your mind is on the
11:11
next project or what somebody said to you, or how you can improve something that.
11:15
You know, that you were thinking about.
11:17
Yes.
11:17
But you know, it makes me think about my dad.
11:19
My dad was an engineer.
11:21
He loved engineering.
11:22
So wherever we went and we'd laugh about it, he'd always be
11:25
looking at structures and beams.
11:27
Yes.
11:28
You know, and now I'm thinking about it, maybe he was an introvert.
11:32
Now these are in the seventies where, you know, we weren't too much
11:35
into personality types, et cetera.
11:37
Yeah.
11:38
But now, Hmm.
11:41
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:43
And you know, and the truth of the matter is that all of us as individuals,
11:47
we each, no matter what you claim in terms of introvert or extrovert or
11:53
you know, if you've taken assessments a lot of there's personality tests
11:56
that you can take that help you determine whether you are introvert or
11:59
extrovert, no matter what that is or what the results of those things are.
12:03
All of us have both introvert and extrovert traits.
12:08
Right.
12:08
That's proven.
12:09
That's not really up for debate.
12:11
And what brings out those different traits is the situations that we're in.
12:16
So for example, there are a lot of introverts who, with their families, they
12:21
may show up extroverted because they're comfortable with their family, right?
12:25
The role that they have in that family's system and family dynamic,
12:30
it may seem like they're extroverts with their families, but when they
12:33
go out into the rest of the world, their introverted traits come out.
12:37
So sometimes it is situational, right?
12:40
But the truth of the matter is we all have both introvert and extrovert
12:44
qualities and traits within us.
12:47
You are right, because I know it was from the millennials.
12:50
I kept hearing about what's it, ambivert.
12:52
Yes.
12:53
I'm an introvert-extrovert, and I'm like, what on earth is that?
12:57
Yeah, yeah.
12:58
Yes, yes.
12:59
Yeah.
12:59
Ambivert are those who will not necessarily claim introvert or
13:06
extrovert, but readily admit that they can go back and forth.
13:11
They will demonstrate introvert traits in some situations, extrovert
13:15
traits in other situations.
13:17
I will say that from a clinical psychology and clinical standpoint.
13:23
There is no ambivert.
13:26
You're primarily an introvert, or you're primarily an extrovert.
13:30
However, nomenclature in terms of you know, pop culture,
13:35
the ambivert piece comes up.
13:37
And I think that is because there are so many people who now recognize that they
13:42
may demonstrate either of those types of qualities depending on the situation.
13:48
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:51
The nomenclature is determined by, as you say, culture, pop culture, you know?
13:55
Yeah.
13:55
Yeah.
13:56
Yeah.
13:56
You're so right.
13:57
You're so right.
13:59
So what are some of the warning signs that we can look for?
14:02
So, I think I mentioned a few already, but here's what I will say.
14:07
And frankly, I will say that.
14:10
For anyone listening, don't try to self-diagnose yourself, right?
14:14
So if you really do believe that you are a workaholic or a work addict,
14:20
if you have an addiction to work, it's a serious compulsion, right?
14:25
So, and it can have detrimental impact, detrimental effects.
14:29
It can have effects on your personal health.
14:33
It can have impacts on how you work to your work environment.
14:37
It can have impacts on your family.
14:39
There are some workaholics who will go broke, go bankrupt, right?
14:44
There are some workaholics who literally lose their relationships, lose their
14:49
family, or, so this is not something that is you know, a nice to talk about.
14:55
It's a real true issue that if you believe that you are a workaholic or a
15:01
work addict, that I would implore you to actually seek someone out to get help.
15:09
With that said, there are some indicators, right, or symptoms
15:15
that you can, or warning signs.
15:18
Let's call them warning signs, like think of them in terms of warning signs.
15:22
If you have one or more of these things, I would want you to ask
15:27
yourself, am I work addicted?
15:30
Like I would want you to be reflective about that.
15:33
And then I would also ask you to if you are unsure, ask your colleagues.
15:38
Ask your, ask people who see you and know you.
15:40
Ask your family, your spouse, et cetera.
15:42
So one is, and I think I mentioned this already, it's a compulsion, right?
15:46
So you can't stop even when you want to.
15:51
So even when your body is screaming for rest.
15:55
Even when your mind is, you know, when you are working really late and you are
15:59
like, you, the words start to blur and you feel like you're reading the same
16:03
thing over and over and over again.
16:05
Mm-hmm.
16:05
But you keep pushing yourself to, to read it even though you know, it's
16:08
not making it sense anymore to you, the compulsion is kind of like that.
16:13
Like, you know you should stop working.
16:15
You know it's time to cut the computer off to stop thinking
16:18
about the project, et cetera.
16:21
Even though you want to, you cannot.
16:24
That is the compulsivity.
16:26
Like you're no longer in control of your behaviors, right?
16:29
Your mind is telling you one thing, but you're pushing your
16:32
body to keep doing something else.
16:33
So if you find yourself compulsively working, that is a warning sign
16:39
that you might be addicted to work.
16:42
The other one that I talked about earlier is when your relationships erode, right?
16:48
So your personal life is literally falling apart because work comes first, right?
16:57
I will tell you the story of, you know, when I was in my late twenties and I
17:02
was addicted to work, but wasn't aware that I was addicted to work yet, right?
17:05
I thought I was just climbing the corporate ladder and I was
17:09
doing everything I needed to do to kind of create a name for myself,
17:12
to build financial security for myself and all of those things.
17:17
And at the time I was readily dating, right?
17:21
I wasn't necessarily dating for marriage, but I had a relationship
17:25
that was really important to me.
17:28
And this person was very clear about his needs in terms of time and intentionality,
17:36
and I heard him and I recognized that yes, I want this relationship, but I
17:42
could not pull myself away long enough or often enough from work to be able
17:49
to give the time and energy to this relationship that I wanted, right?
17:54
So that relationship eroded, right?
17:57
That person was very clear in that what their needs were.
18:00
I heard them, I was like, yes, I'm gonna do it, and then I would not do it.
18:04
And then they happened again, and it happened again.
18:07
So when your relationships erode, and again, it's not just
18:10
your personal relationships.
18:12
Many of the women that I work with who are work addicted, it's not always their
18:16
spouse who is the relationship that erodes, it sometimes can be their parents.
18:22
It's oftentimes their children.
18:24
It's their sisters, their siblings, et cetera, right?
18:27
So not just, don't only think about it in terms of a romantic partner.
18:31
So if your relationships erode, that's another warning sign.
18:35
If you have mental occupation, so meaning like even when you're not working
18:40
or when you're off the clock, you're mentally working, you're planning,
18:44
you are playing conversations, you're trying to solve business problems
18:48
when technically you're at the pool or you're on the beach or you're, you
18:52
know, you're doing something else.
18:54
You're spending time quality time with your friends and
18:57
your family at the picnic.
18:59
But you're really sitting there and working, right?
19:02
Mm-hmm.
19:03
So if you're mentally preoccupied.
19:05
Another warning sign is emotional regulation, right?
19:08
You need work to feel okay.
19:12
You need to be working to feel okay for yourself.
19:16
Without it, you feel really anxious or you feel worthless, or you feel lost.
19:24
Right?
19:24
That's another key warning sign.
19:27
The other, we kind of alluded to it earlier, Paula, is
19:31
you have no other identity.
19:33
So even despite the fact that you are a mom, you are a wife.
19:37
You know, you belong to the church all of these other aspects of your
19:42
identity, when someone asks you what you do for fun, you draw a blank
19:47
because work is your identity, right?
19:50
You prioritize that above all other things and to the detriment of all other things.
19:57
So, yeah, those are some of the warning signs that if you are experiencing
20:01
these things and not just as a one-off, right, not just for one month or the
20:07
three month project, if this, these things are an ongoing experience
20:13
that you are having, that's when you need to be asking yourself whether
20:18
or not you might be addicted to work.
20:22
Thanks for expanding on this because you know, yes, we touched on it
20:26
earlier, but now that you've really expanded, woo, you know, when fun
20:32
and work are the same thing for you.
20:35
I mean, that's what jumped out at me in particular, because
20:38
I know a few people like that.
20:39
You know, you ask them, what do you do for fun?
20:41
Fun?
20:42
Why should I have fun, you know?
20:44
Yeah.
20:45
Yeah.
20:45
They don't even think about going on vacations.
20:47
To them, that's a waste of time when I could be doing X, Y, Z or making this
20:51
amount of money by working, et cetera.
20:55
Yeah.
20:56
Let's see that, that identity and work becomes their
21:00
Yeah.
21:00
Identity.
21:01
Go ahead.
21:02
Yeah, I was gonna say, and if with that in particular I think it's
21:06
important to distinguish yes, for we all dream of having a job or having
21:13
a career where we have fun, right?
21:15
That we enjoy what we do.
21:17
So that's not what we're talking about.
21:19
If you and Paula, I know you enjoy what you do, I enjoy what I do for a living.
21:23
So if you enjoy what you do for a living, that is great.
21:26
That is what we want.
21:27
That's the goal.
21:28
It's when you not only enjoy it or you equate that with fun,
21:34
but you can't stop it, right?
21:36
It's when you are doing it, but you can't turn it off.
21:40
It's when other people see you and they're like.
21:45
I wanna spend time with you, but you are so busy having fun doing your
21:50
work, that you are neglecting me.
21:52
You're neglecting the things that you say are important to you.
21:56
That's when it becomes problematic.
21:58
Not that you enjoy your work.
22:00
We want you to enjoy your work.
22:01
Yeah, we all wanna do that, but when that is prioritized to the detriment
22:07
of every other aspect of your existence, that's when it's a problem.
22:13
Yeah, I can see that.
22:14
I can see that clearly.
22:17
Yeah.
22:18
Because I can think of some people, I know who that describes a hundred percent.
22:24
Yeah.
22:24
Yeah.
22:25
I'm sure we all know work and that's part of the issue, right.
22:30
In my opinion as a person who studies this, researches this and works
22:33
with people who are workaholics.
22:36
We all, if once I describe this, people are like, oh, I can see this person.
22:41
They start naming people.
22:42
Oh, Sally and Sarah and Jack.
22:46
They name the people who they know meet these criteria.
22:50
But because it is held up as such a good thing to be so high
22:56
achieving, to be successful.
22:58
'cause we are rewarded for the behaviors, then that's why I
23:04
think this goes so undiagnosed.
23:06
Got you.
23:06
Got you.
23:09
Wow.
23:10
I'm just, you know, as you said, I'm thinking of so many people.
23:12
I could put a check mark against their name.
23:16
Yeah.
23:16
You know?
23:17
Yeah.
23:17
The description.
23:19
And I think for those of us who, you know, I think particularly,
23:23
introverted women in particular.
23:26
Have, you know, I think that about the historical context, right?
23:30
And before we even entered the paid workforce, right, we were able to
23:34
go into companies and organizations and work and get paid for our work.
23:39
We were the center and we still are the center of our homes.
23:44
And we worked in the homes, right?
23:46
Raising our children, taking care of the household, et cetera.
23:49
And even then, when we weren't necessarily getting paid for our work, we were
23:56
constantly working around the clock.
23:57
You never turn off being a mother or a wife or, you know, taking care
24:03
of a home or taking care of your elderly parents, your grand baby.
24:07
So many of us have multiple generations that we are responsible for.
24:11
Mm-hmm.
24:12
As caregivers, we never turn that off.
24:14
So I also believe that there's the historical perspective, you know,
24:19
plays into the fact that we are more susceptible to becoming workaholics.
24:25
Yeah.
24:25
And I do think our desire to achieve right, to prove to the world.
24:31
So many of us have the desire to prove to the world that we can do all things.
24:37
We can be all things to all people, including you know, becoming vice
24:42
presidents and executive vice presidents including making multiple
24:46
six figures in terms of our income.
24:49
Doing all of that while doing everything else.
24:52
I think that also makes us more susceptible to becoming
24:57
addicted to work as well.
25:01
Yeah.
25:02
Before we round up here, before we close up.
25:06
Sure.
25:07
Any suggestions on how we can help ourselves?
25:10
There may not be solutions, but there could be like, you know, tips on how
25:15
to recognize it and then how to start making steps of putting things in place.
25:20
You see it in yourself or you see it in a love one and what to do.
25:25
Yeah, absolutely.
25:25
So, first let me say that there are, well, let me talk about recognizing it
25:30
first and then I'll talk about solutions.
25:33
So, we talked about the symptoms we talked about, right?
25:37
Not self-diagnosing, but if you recognize some of these behaviors in yourself,
25:42
it is important to ask the question.
25:45
Am I work addicted?
25:46
Even if you think there is a possibility, maybe you don't know, but if you think
25:51
there's a possibility, I personally would recommend that you ask someone
25:56
who knows you really well, right?
25:58
Your best friend.
25:59
And that's one thing I love about women.
26:00
Our friends, they will be honest with us.
26:04
They're gonna tell us.
26:05
They're not gonna let us walk around like we crazy.
26:08
So you ask your best friend.
26:10
Ask your partner, right?
26:12
Ask someone who really knows you well and, you know, share with
26:16
them what we talked about today in terms of potential symptoms.
26:19
And ask them if they see that in you.
26:22
That's just a good check and balance that you don't have to go anywhere.
26:25
That's a phone call or a quick conversation, right.
26:29
To get validation or invalidation of what you might be already thinking.
26:34
When you get to a point where you're like, you know what, I probably do have an
26:39
issue, you can by trying to self-regulate, meaning you can start, if your problem
26:46
is you are working way too many hours, you're working double the hours that your
26:51
company requires then you can start by trying to cut back those hours, right?
26:57
Like I would suggest that you start with the behaviors that you see that
27:03
you are overextending yourself on.
27:06
You can try that.
27:07
Meaning, and I did this as well.
27:09
I tried to cut back on the actual physical hours that I was working.
27:14
I tried to stop myself when I would be at the dinner table or out to
27:20
dinner with friends and family and my mind was start going toward work.
27:24
Like I would literally try to correct myself and bring myself
27:28
back into the conversation.
27:30
So there are those things that you can try to do.
27:36
I will say though, that if you truly are addicted to work, when you try those
27:44
things, it's not gonna work, right?
27:46
If you're addicted, you're addicted, right?
27:49
So trying to on your own correct those behaviors, it's either
27:54
not gonna work at all, or it's gonna work for a very short time.
27:58
And then you're gonna find yourself going right back into the problematic
28:01
behaviors that you had before.
28:03
And that is when you truly do know that you are addicted and you need to get
28:08
some other type of help, either through a psychologist or psychotherapist or
28:13
even a clinical social worker, right?
28:15
Work addiction is a compulsion.
28:17
So the person that you go to for help doesn't have to be a expert
28:21
in work addiction, but they do have to be an expert in helping
28:25
with behavioral addictions.
28:27
So that's one way you can get professional help if you need it.
28:30
The other way is there are Workaholic Anonymous.
28:34
So just like there are Alcoholic Anonymous, there are organizations that
28:38
are dedicated to Workaholic Anonymous.
28:41
So there are group programs that would help you to deal with the
28:47
addiction that you have with work.
28:50
So that's another avenue that you could go to for professional support.
28:56
I love it.
28:56
I love it because sometimes people think that, well, you know, there's no hope.
29:00
Knowing that there's hope.
29:01
Yes.
29:03
You know, the beginning many times of getting help.
29:07
Yes.
29:07
So, yeah.
29:07
Yes.
29:08
Thank you.
29:09
Yeah.
29:09
And so if someone wants to get in touch with you, Dr. Nicole, how can they
29:14
... Yes.
29:15
How can they get in touch with you online?
29:18
So online I am, you can go to my website, which is www.thechangedoc.com which
29:26
I'm sure we'll put in the show notes.
29:30
Yeah.
29:30
So you can go to my website, which you'll learn more about
29:33
me, my services, et cetera.
29:35
I'm also primarily on LinkedIn, so if you go to LinkedIn and search The Change
29:41
Doc or Dr. Nicole Bryan, I will pop up.
29:44
So either of those ways is good.
29:46
I also have a podcast that if you're... I'm a podcast.
29:52
I love podcasts, like I over-consume podcasts.
29:55
But if you are into podcasts, I also have a podcast and it's
29:58
called Leading Her Introvert Way.
30:01
So that's another way you can, that's on all the podcast platforms.
30:06
You woohoohoo the podcast.
30:08
I've been a podcaster for 13 years, so I'm all in.
30:12
You got me beat.
30:13
I am still very new.
30:14
This is year three.
30:16
But I've been an avid listener to podcasts for a very long time, and I
30:21
absolutely, it's one of my favorite ways to learn, so I'm grateful.
30:24
It is.
30:25
It is.
30:25
Yeah.
30:27
Wow.
30:27
And for those of you who joined this, you have an opportunity to speak with
30:33
her and ask her whatever questions that you may have that I didn't ask.
30:38
And for those listening and viewing this online, if you'd like to be
30:43
a guest like Dr. Nicole Brian, reach out to me on my website which
30:48
is chattingwiththeexperts.com.
30:51
I am also on LinkedIn.
30:52
I love LinkedIn.
30:54
I'm not paid to say that, but I do love LinkedIn and just
30:58
search for Paula Okonneh there.
31:00
On Instagram, I have an Instagram handle, which is @chat_experts_podcast.
31:08
I'm also on Facebook.
31:10
I'm more so now than I used to be in the past.
31:12
Look for my business page there or my personal page, Paula Okonneh.
31:17
You can reach out to me there.
31:19
And we now have a YouTube channel that I love for you to subscribe to.
31:23
Yes, yes, yes.
31:26
And well thank you again Dr. Nicole.
31:28
And now for those in the audience, we'll open up the floor so that you
31:33
can ask her questions and find out, you know, so much more about this
31:37
very interesting topic, when success becomes an addiction and why introverted
31:43
women are most affected by that.
31:46
Thank you.
31:47
Thank you, thank you.
31:49
Thank you.