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From Empty Nester to Birdy Launcher: Redefining Parenthood with Communication & Connection · Speak In Flow

• 0:04
  Melinda Lee: Welcome, dear listeners, to the speak and flow podcast, where we dive into unique experiences and stories to help you and your team unleash the power of their voice, achieve maximum potential and flow. Today I have a dear guest and friend. She is the CEO founder of Birdie Launcher, change catalyst as well.
• 0:28
  Melinda Lee: She is an amazing mother leader. I met her through Golden Gate Universities when we were both getting our Ma in organizational psychology. Welcome, Hannah Banker.
• 0:41
  Hanna Bankier: Thank you so much, Melinda, so happy to be back. Thank you for having me.
• 0:46
  Melinda Lee: This is our second time. I had so much fun with you the 1st time, and now we're going to do this again. But with the new spin a fresh take on Birdie Launcher, which is not what most people might call empty nester
• 1:01
  Melinda Lee: before we even get into that, you know you have so many. You have accreditations. You're a coach. You have a certification at Icf. International Coaches Federation, and you use that in your work as well as the masters of organizational Psychology Degree.
• 1:17
  Hanna Bankier: That is correct. Yeah.
• 1:20
  Melinda Lee: And so, yes.
• 1:22
  Melinda Lee: yeah, tell me more about the you know what you're doing with Birdie Launcher. And why not empty? Nester?
• 1:29
  Hanna Bankier: Yes, thank you for that question. So the general term, for when people the kids leave the home and they fly off and stretch their wings and get into this big big world is empty, nester, and that term just doesn't sit well with me at all. Because how is the nest empty when you're still in it.
• 1:51
  Hanna Bankier: So I want to reframe that also. Most people really associate emptiness with a really sad part of life. There's a lot of sense of loss. And while that is true, when we think about it and reframe it to become birdie launchers with the aim of becoming a free bird. It just changes the outlook altogether. Like words really make a difference, and they help us shape our experience.
• 2:15
  Hanna Bankier: So the burden launcher concept is as a mama, you are helping, guiding, and ushering your kid, launching them into the big world, and in that process you get a chance to launch yourself, to refeather you. You are not the same person. You were 2025 years ago, however, long ago you became a mother.
• 2:37
  Hanna Bankier: and you probably poured in a lot of energy and effort and love and money into being the best parent that you can be. And usually then, as mamas, we end up finding ourselves at the bottom of the laundry basket, and the needs that we have are not being catered to in the same way. So here's an opportunity now, when your kids are leaving the nest to actually focus on you.
• 3:01
  Hanna Bankier: So the Birdie Launcher is both launching your kid into the world, but also launching yourself into this big world.
• 3:08
  Melinda Lee: Oh, my gosh! And tell me what was your reason, your your catalyst, for doing this.
• 3:13
  Hanna Bankier: Yeah. So I have worked with people through transitions many, many times, like major life transitions. Right? And for myself, I'm an immigrant. So one of my life transitions was to come to the Us. Another major life transition is to become a mother. Then I went through a divorce. Then I did a career change, left my television production career to go back to school and become a coach and work as an organization development practitioner.
• 3:42
  Hanna Bankier: So all of these transitions. And then I was looking at. I was like, Wow, I have another major life transition coming up. My oldest is going to leave for college.
• 3:52
  Hanna Bankier: So as we're going through that, I became the Go to Friend, where this was a topic of conversation for many, many of my friendships and relationships. And we're grieving, and we're worried, and we're excited. And we're having all the feels and all of the emotions. And as I was digging into it, I decided that, as with most things.
• 4:14
  Hanna Bankier: when we anticipate, when we plan, when we prepare, we go through any transition, and with a much better outcome on the other end. So I became the go to Birdie Launcher, mama friend, and then realized that, wow! There's 22 million empty nesters in the Us. There's a huge need for this.
• 4:37
  Hanna Bankier: So that's when I just became organic, like, I want to share my insights, my practical tips, my wisdom. What I've gone through on a personal level and from the research and the writings out there and coming together in community is so important. So I wanted to offer that and create that platform, that space for other moms as well.
• 5:00
  Melinda Lee: Love that, and you are the best person to do that, and, like you said, I love what you said, because I think most people would just go into it, not really thinking about it and just winging it. And and so you with you, you would prepare people plan for it, and it could be actually more of a birdie launcher experience which makes me like get chills like thinking about Birdie Launcher versus empty. Nester. You're right empty. Nester feels so empty broken. I mean, the Birdie Launcher is freeing. I love that.
• 5:31
  Melinda Lee: This is a birdie launcher.
• 5:32
  Hanna Bankier: Yes, I see it. You know I created this framework. I call it soar, because, of course, I love the bird terms. You know, the kids are flying off and leaving the nest, and we're keeping those parts that are yummy and resonate versus the empty nest. At least, when I picture it. I see this, you know. Empty feathers pooped out, dried, you know, leftover being as opposed to this yummy, juicy place where we get to be free birds and launch ourselves.
• 5:59
  Hanna Bankier: So the framework that I want to work with my clients is really like sitting with the grief.
• 6:04
  Hanna Bankier: There is a sense of loss, you know, there's all these lasts. This is the last time you pick them up from maybe a soccer game the last time you're doing this the last time. So there's definitely a sense of loss, and especially when it comes to your identity of being a mother. You're going from being very hands-on, mother being kind of in control, and knowing what's going on more or less at all times to
• 6:31
  Hanna Bankier: what is that? Right? So the grief and our culture doesn't do grief. Very well. We're very quick to just rush on and keep on moving and doing something else, and I find it hard to open up a new chapter and write a new chapter when we haven't closed the last one. So really making space for the grief. And then we go into the relief.
• 6:56
  Hanna Bankier: What are all the things that you won't miss.
• 6:59
  Hanna Bankier: the slamming doors, the picking up socks on the floor, making more lunch boxes, driving, you know, 2 h to some game at 7 o'clock on a Saturday morning. Maybe some attitude that you're not really loving or
• 7:15
  Hanna Bankier: being up late at night because they're not home yet, and you can't really fall asleep until you hear them coming home, or like all of those things, and sometimes guilt comes up here like am I even allowed to feel relief over these things that I'm actually not really enjoying. I might love being a mom and love motherhood, but there's always pieces right that we're not loving. So we're reveling a little bit in the relief part, and then the last
• 7:40
  Hanna Bankier: and the one that will build the chapter for many, many years to come is really the joy
• 7:47
  Hanna Bankier: we get to now recreate and write the next chapters for our lives and for many, many of us we might have been in the hands-on, you know, active parenting for a couple of decades, depending on how many kids you have and the age span between them.
• 8:02
  Hanna Bankier: And most people come into this phase of life around 50 like 51 is the average year for mamas when their kids are leaving their home, and most of us are going to live to 80 90 years old.
• 8:16
  Hanna Bankier: So if I look at it, if you have 2 decades worth of hands-on parenting, and then you had another 3, 4 decades afterwards. That's a lot of life to live. So how do you want to live that life? Well, with, you know, feeling connected feeling purposeful when you have removed the active hands-on parenting. And that's a big part of like, what is my identity. Now, how do I? How do I do that? What is my life? Who am I
• 8:46
  Hanna Bankier: so find that joy and the spark, and the life force, and the juiciness, and like waking up in the morning and feeling good about life.
• 8:55
  Melinda Lee: Oh, my goodness! I love that! I love those 3 parts, and they're so they're right on. I mean, it's like, I feel like not a lot of people will think through and have those phases and give respect to each of those phases. They're probably thinking I'm gonna go from like grief to just
• 9:14
  Melinda Lee: joy like, okay, let's just get rid of the grief and then go to joy like, when is grief going to be over and then go to joy. And that's not true, I mean, you know, like you said we. We don't do grief well.
• 9:25
  Melinda Lee: and then, like I love the acceptance part, too, or the relief part of it, like. There's a lot of like you said the processing of the guiltyness of like the things that we don't want that are liked like. If it was, there was a lot of them.
• 9:40
  Hanna Bankier: Right.
• 9:41
  Melinda Lee: We do with all that right, you know, if you don't skip, if you skip through it, you're not gonna process it
• 9:46
  Melinda Lee: or close a chapter on it. Well.
• 9:49
  Hanna Bankier: Exactly. And I, you know we know that grief and relief and joy, like they can be all mixed and happening at all times of life. Right? It's not a straight line. You can walk in and sit on this on your child's bed in their room, and both revel over like, wow! This room has not been this clean ever before, and also sit and like I miss them so much like holding on. And so it's not like you're done with one chapter, and then you just move on to the next.
• 10:17
  Hanna Bankier: But it's part of your experience, and I think this culture one of the mistakes, and many, many moms are doing. And parents in general is really oh, it's just part of life. It's just how it's supposed to be. And we're trying to skip over the emotional aspect of it all. And that's when we're not doing it. Well.
• 10:39
  Melinda Lee: And then you're the suffering and the sense of loss and the grieving, and it's so easy to then get stuck in it, and then you can't like unleash the rest of your life and those other chapters, because we get stuck and like shrink. And then it really does become that empty nest that is, you know, little leftover feathers with somebody. And there's so much focus on launching the kids. And of course, that's hugely important. Right? We get to celebrate.
• 11:06
  Hanna Bankier: That you've had this child for 1819 years, and you freaking, did it? Congratulations and high 5. But there is no cake for you. Yeah, it's a graduation cake for the kid. There is a graduation. There's so much focus on them. But you did it. So let's revel in that. Let's explore and celebrate that, and let's not skip over the tender parts, because we have those as well.
• 11:32
  Melinda Lee: Oh, so beautiful! And what do you see? I I could see a lot of people not knowing how to go through this in a in a very productive, meaningful way, thoughtful way. And so what do you see? Are the biggest mistakes
• 11:44
  Melinda Lee: that parents run into.
• 11:47
  Hanna Bankier: Yeah, I think the biggest mistake is just thinking it's part of the process, and it doesn't require your time and attention and intention. That is sort of just going to work itself out. Another big big mistake is not trying to start evolving your parenting.
• 12:08
  Hanna Bankier: Your emerging adult is not going to want to be in a relationship with you in a close way. If you talk to them, or behave with them or control them the way you did when they were 10.
• 12:19
  Hanna Bankier: So we really need to start emerging like evolving building this next chapter of our relationship. You will always be the mom.
• 12:29
  Hanna Bankier: So it's not going to be a peer to peer. But as they're emerging adults, and as they're leaving the house, and as they're building their own lives, you're going to be closer to a peer relationship, which means you have to figure out, how do I, parent? Now
• 12:45
  Hanna Bankier: this idea that you are no longer going to be used or needed. And you're like used up, and and they won't need you or want to be in relationship with you is absolutely a myth and not true, and it requires a shift. So how do I start shifting my relationship with my child? And I think there another mistake that people are making is waiting until they've left.
• 13:16
  Hanna Bankier: But starting, when your kid is still under your same roof in your nest and say, having these conversations of saying.
• 13:24
  Hanna Bankier: Okay, we get to recreate a new co-create, a new version of our relationship. What do we want it to look like and feel like? And what do you need from me. I will always be your mom. But we're going from hands on. I won't make your dentist appointments anymore, you know I won't do these things. So how do we transfer the adulting? And then what kind of job description do I have?
• 13:47
  Hanna Bankier: What do I get to be in your life? And I have with my oldest. We had a lot of fun with this. We started already the summer between his junior and senior year in high school, and just starting like, okay, what will this look like? What do we want it to feel like? And started handing over some of the responsibilities. And we were talking through like, okay, am I going to be your mentor? Am I going to be a coach and sounding board and advisor?
• 14:12
  Hanna Bankier: What does my new job description look like, and we get to co-create it. It's not just me, right? You're an emerging adult. You're 18 years old, like, what do we want it to be so. That is another mistake of just thinking that you're going to stay, and being the same version of your parent that you have been before. And then
• 14:33
  Hanna Bankier: another big big one is really thinking you're gonna go through it alone.
• 14:39
  Hanna Bankier: We are social beings, we are herd animals. We need community, we need support, and many, many people are going through this transition as well, and being in community and getting the support, following a framework, not feeling lost and uncertain and overwhelmed, or like. Am I doing it right? What am I supposed to do? And how do I prepped them? Is just like, don't don't go at it alone.
• 15:08
  Melinda Lee: Love it.
• 15:09
  Melinda Lee: That's so true. I mean, yeah, cause you're right. I I think when you have a framework you have a set day, a set time, otherwise we can fall into the trap of oh, let's just be done with it. Let's just ignore it, or it'll work itself out.
• 15:25
  Melinda Lee: Oh, and and again, you're you're. I think we are going to be missing out on what is possible for us. So what is possible for us at 1st of all. But what is possible like you talked about the joy part right.
• 15:35
  Hanna Bankier: Yes.
• 15:36
  Melinda Lee: This part right? We can have so much joy. So what? Tell us what else is possible when they do do things right?
• 15:43
  Hanna Bankier: Yeah, I think for me, it's really about, in a sense, finding your own voice right. How am I want to be? Who do I want to be in this world as this version of myself, where I am no longer pouring in a vast majority of my time, my energy, my effort, my love, into hands-on parenting right when you're no longer driving or fixing lunches, or doing all these other things, or checking grades, or whatever it is, your version of parenting, then
• 16:14
  Hanna Bankier: the world is your oyster much like it is your kids. And I think it's really important for us moms to model that behavior. Where keep on telling the kids that there's a big world out there. Yeah, but it's out there for you, too. So if you swivel and shrink, then that's not who you want to show your kids that you want to be right. So what is possible? What is possible is to really find, you know a lot of moms are going through a career transition.
• 16:43
  Hanna Bankier: So who? Where do I want to serve? Who do I want to be in this new phase. How can I find my ease and my grace in be finding this new role of my parenting, and who I am in this world so picking up new hobbies really connecting with friends. I think that one is crucial. Again, we need community.
• 17:08
  Hanna Bankier: and when we skip the friendship part, we're missing out a lot.
• 17:14
  Hanna Bankier: There is another big changing relationship, right? You have the changing relationship with your kid that's leaving. You might have siblings from home. That relationship will also change. Now there's a lot more spotlight on them, and they may like it or not like it. And then, if you're partnered, there's another shift. We know that the graying divorce is going up. There's a 40% greater likelihood of getting divorced
• 17:38
  Hanna Bankier: when your kids have left the nest. So how are you tending or not tending to that relationship? Are, you, you know.
• 17:47
  Hanna Bankier: living together, but alone? Are you roommates, or are you still in a connected, romantic, deep, loving relationship? So making that determination and choice. And like, is this a place I want to invest? And who are we together when we're not just focusing on being co-admins for the organization called family, where the kids are usually the focus.
• 18:11
  Hanna Bankier: So there's all these opportunities. And again, you're creating and writing the chapters for yourself for the next 2, 3, 4 decades.
• 18:22
  Melinda Lee: And so, how would you support someone through all of this.
• 18:26
  Hanna Bankier: Yeah. So I work with mamas in a few different forms. I do workshops to really do a deeper dive, and some of the things that we talked about today just to get a sense of, how do I want to go into this as prepared and as aware as possible? Again, when we anticipate something, and we plan and prepare for it, we come out stronger, and I really want women to go through this with grace and ease, and not just have all the worries like. Yes.
• 18:51
  Hanna Bankier: we're excited about our kids. They're ready to launch like again. Score we did it, and we're worried like, oh, my God! Have I prepared them enough? Do they know how to balance the checkbook? Can they do the laundry? Do they know how to cook like? Are they adulting enough? So getting that mix of like insight and wisdom and practical advice? So it comes in workshops. I work with moms, one on one, just
• 19:14
  Hanna Bankier: coaching them, depending on what they are and what they need. And then I also have what I call the launching squad, which is a group again, community coming together where we meet, and just go through that same framework as I work with women when I work with them, one on one. And we look at all these different aspects, and then we get to have again that sense of community and going through it. That is a shared experience. I don't
• 19:39
  Hanna Bankier: to be alone in this.
• 19:42
  Hanna Bankier: So choosing to get the support is a crucial step.
• 19:46
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, I'd imagine. So it would be interesting to see, like, yeah, depending on where mom is. In their journey.
• 19:55
  Melinda Lee: What? What area of support to get from you. And do you also support the the fathers, too, in a small and in some way.
• 20:03
  Hanna Bankier: They sometimes show up for my workshops. But I'm really focusing on the mamas, and that's partly that's my lived experience. Moms are really most often going through this change and transition and the sense of loss in a much deeper level. Many moms are the primary caretakers, and many moms have much closer emotional bond with their children. So this sense of loss of that hands-on
• 20:28
  Hanna Bankier: mothering identity is so much deeper for moms. So I'm focusing on the mamas at this point.
• 20:35
  Melinda Lee: Definitely gonna reach out to you.
• 20:37
  Hanna Bankier: Yeah.
• 20:37
  Melinda Lee: She's about that time.
• 20:40
  Hanna Bankier: This is.
• 20:40
  Melinda Lee: So fascinating. But I love how you're how there's joy and finding our voice after at the end of all this! But then we do have to get the 1st part of it right like you wouldn't be able to experience as much joy because you're still trapped and thinking about all the other stuff from the beginning.
• 20:57
  Hanna Bankier: Yeah. And I think we all can. You know, if I say, like, just paint this picture of, there's Mom, who is now bitter and resentful because her kids she's not feeling needed by her kids. I think we all have somebody in mind that pops up, and that's not where we want to be. We don't want to become a burden onto our children. We don't want them to feel guilty that they're off living their lives. They were supposed to. This is why we raise them. You know we have succeeded raising independent
• 21:22
  Hanna Bankier: adults. And that's amazing. But that means also we have to show up for ourselves, and be that same independence, and have a like zest for life like that juicy part.
• 21:34
  Hanna Bankier: So yeah, so that those are the. Those are the points of really coming together. And to your point when we do it well. And
• 21:42
  Hanna Bankier: I even start working with some moms whose kids are juniors in high school because they really anticipate like, okay, I want to take this last year when they're living at home and really have that flow. And what are we doing because it's not flipping a switch. Transitioning anything in a special relationship takes time and effort. And we're gonna flub up once in a while and then we get back on the horse and we do it right.
• 22:06
  Hanna Bankier: And then sometimes it's like the moms who are just like, Oh, I just focus so much on the Kid and I moved them into college, or however they left.
• 22:13
  Hanna Bankier: and now I'm sitting here, and I'm empty and lost, and I am confused and overwhelmed, and I don't know who I am. So the range of moms that come to me are really from junior year in high school to post, leaving the nest, and I welcome them all.
• 22:30
  Melinda Lee: Totally. I see that I love that. How would they get a hold of you?
• 22:34
  Hanna Bankier: Yes. So the best way is to go to my website, birdielauncher.com, and Birdie with a Y, and then you find all the workshops and the launching squad, and how to work with me. One-on-one. And I also want to offer to this audience, for today is I have a Freebie a little handout. So we'll get a link at the bottom, and then they can get that to really.
• 22:59
  Hanna Bankier: And that Freebie is about really start focusing on this transitioning of your parenting and like, how are you going to shift your parenting from hands on mama to mama, Mentor, or whatever that job description is that you and your child decide for you.
• 23:12
  Melinda Lee: Yeah. I have to think of that job title.
• 23:15
  Hanna Bankier: Kidding.
• 23:17
  Melinda Lee: Thank you so much for that. Grab the little freebie that's going to be in the show notes, or go to birdielauncher.com check out Hannah's webpage. And so, thank you so much, Hannah, I actually learned so much. It's exciting. I really enjoyed the framework.
• 23:33
  Melinda Lee: And what is beyond all this, you know, after the the kids leave and looking at it differently and having more joy around it. And it's
• 23:42
  Melinda Lee: yeah. Thank you. So thanks so much. And I really appreciate you and audience. I trust that you got your golden takeaway for today, and don't again don't hesitate to reach out to Hannah, and until next time. I am your sister in flow. Remember anytime that you have an opportunity to speak to someone. It is your chance to connect, to inspire, to make a big impact.
• 24:11
  Hanna Bankier: Thank you. Thank you.
• 24:12
  Hanna Bankier: Thank you.
• 24:13
  Melinda Lee: Bye.