Latest / Queer Voices / October 22nd - Remembering Iris Santos, Julia Krohn of SPELLING BEE at TUTS, and THE HOUSE OF GUNNIESS

Transcript

October 22nd - Remembering Iris Santos, Julia Krohn of SPELLING BEE at TUTS, and THE HOUSE OF GUNNIESS · Queer Voices

• 0:02
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• 2:08
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• 2:14
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• 2:21
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• 2:25
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• 2:30
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• 4:03
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• 4:24
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• 4:35
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• 4:38
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• 4:39
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• 4:46
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• 4:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's Community Radio right here in Houston, Texas.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_09: Welcome to Queer Voices, a radio show and a podcast for the LGBTQIA plus community.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_09: We have three segments for you.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_09: Up first, Jacob Newsom interviews Maria Garnion, who is the mother of Iris Santos, a transgender woman who was murdered in 2021.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_09: It is a very heartfelt, uh, very moving interview.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_09: Then we make things a little bit lighter with Julia Crone, who is an actress who is in the Theater Under the Stars production of the Putnam County Spelling Bee, which is the theater's season opener this year on October 21st.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_09: And then finally, I talk with author R.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_09: Lee Ingalls about the Netflix hit series House of Guinness.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_09: Queer Voices starts now.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_08: My name is Jacob Newsome, and I'm sitting with a special guest today.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_08: Her name is Maria Cardillon.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_08: She is the mother of Iris Santos, a transgender woman that was murdered in Houston a couple years ago.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_08: We are coming here today to honor the life of Iris Santos and to make space for her mother during this time.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_08: Maria, is there anything you like to say or to add?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, I like the idea of honoring Iris' life instead of Iris talking about Iris dead, it's it's honoring her life specially and still remember her and the time she spent with us.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_08: I really appreciate that you said that because I wanted to ask you, can you start by telling us a little bit about who Iris was, not just what happened to her, but who she was before the headlines?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_05: We can start when she was little, she was so smart.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_05: I was remembering when she started, she was maybe four, four or five years old, less than five, three or four.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_05: She started kindergarten, pre-K.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_05: It was just a you know, little school that she attends.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_05: And then she got a friend, best friend, it was a girl.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_05: She always played with girls, and she started loving the movies from Disney.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_05: Her favorite was Cenicienta.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_05: The first time she watched that movie, she came from school and started telling me everything about it.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_05: She cannot even speak well.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_05: And then instead of Cenicienta in Spanish, what we call Cinderella, you know.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_05: So she says, Mommy, mommy, I I watch movies, you know, this princess and these dresses.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my God, it was so beautiful, beautiful.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_05: She cannot describe how beautiful she was, right?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_05: And she says, I say, what is the name?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_05: And then she says, Semicienta.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_05: So she misspelled, you know, because it was Spanish to tell me in Spanish.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_05: And I laughed and I laughed, you know.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_05: We went home and she was so happy about that.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_05: Since then, she just loved watching fairy tale movies, and her best friends was always girls, and and it wasn't it was normal like any other kid, but she was so smart.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_05: She started learning everything in the movie.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_05: Was while she was watching the movie, she knew all the paragraphs and actions that the the characters make, and she learned the movie by memory.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_05: And then actions and acting and everything.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, wow, she you're amazing.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_05: How can you do that?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_05: She said, because it's beautiful, mother.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_05: These movies are beautiful.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my god, when I grow up, I want to be like one of them.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_05: She said, But you're a boy, you're not a girl.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_05: And she doesn't say anything.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_05: You know, at that time she was only five or between three and five.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_05: She never said nothing.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_05: She was a happy kid.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_05: She was very nice and um had a very good moments with brothers and sisters.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_05: She was the youngest of uh four children.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_05: So she always, you know, the last of nobody paid attention, nobody listened.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_05: She had to listen to everyone except her.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_08: Since she was the youngest, was she do you feel like she was spoiled growing up, or was she like because I I was the youngest and I feel like I had that kind of yeah, sort of.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_05: Everybody had to take care of her and whatever she wants, she got it.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_05: But besides that, she got that character that if she wants something, it had to be that day, that moment, right away.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_05: Like, mom, I want to do this, but we don't we cannot do.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_05: We do over the weekend.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_05: No, no, no, no.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_05: I want it right now, mommy.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_05: I have to go to school tomorrow, and I need this.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_05: We have to go to the store, buy this, you know, like whatever it was.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_08: What are what are some memories that make you smile when you think of her the most?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_05: Everything.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, everything.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_05: Like I said, she was so smart, you know, when she was in school, also in the middle school, like she went into the teeter, and then she went into the spelling bee, and she said, I have to won this spelling contest, and she won.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_05: She was determined to everything she wants and she wants to do.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_05: Everything was fun.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_05: She was she was fun.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_05: All my other children are very different from her.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_05: Away, they're quiet, they're they're um they're not laugh because people is looking at them, or they don't cry because they're looking at them.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_05: Iris does everything.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I don't care if they're looking at me.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_05: I want to cry, I cry.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_05: I wanna laugh, I laugh.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_05: She was like that.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_05: She was she was just the opposite from the other three children.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_08: Sounds like she wasn't afraid to be seen.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_08: So she said somebody that was very bold, like this is who I am, type of thing.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, exactly.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_05: She wants, she was, she just wants the whole show for her.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_05: Her dream after she watching movies and Disney movies, especially.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_05: Her dream in life was always since that day I remember.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_05: She said, one day I'm gonna be in Hollywood.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_05: She said, I wanna be a princess like that.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna be like Lady Gaga.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know, but I'll be their mother.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_05: Swear to God that she's gonna be like that.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_08: She she sounded like she was somebody that definitely had a good view of herself, like a very like, this is who I'm gonna be.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_08: I'm gonna be a star.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_08: And she was already a star.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_08: Like she's she's a princess.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_08: Like, um, and so it sounds like she's like this ball of light, is what I'm getting.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_05: She was full of life for everything, every little detail at school, when her friends, she had to be the attention, she had to be.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, she doesn't, it's not like she fights for that or don't let other people shine.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_05: But she was like sharing with everyone.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_05: She brings people to to share her world, to help people, be with them, and then just enjoy the time.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_05: Very cheerful.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_05: She was amazing.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_05: I don't I really don't have words to describe how she was.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_08: Tell me a little bit about how she sounded like she would uplift people with her energy.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_08: Can you tell me a little bit about how you deserve that?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_05: About about a woman.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_08: Can you tell me a little bit about how you might have seen her uplift people?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_05: She made jokes or or uh within the family, you know, all my other children, like I say, they don't like her personality.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_05: They don't have nothing like that.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_05: They're the opposite.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_05: So she gets in the room and they say, Come on, let's go.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_05: We're having a party.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_05: It's your birthday.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_05: What are you doing there?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_05: Get up, you know.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_05: You want makeup?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_05: I'll do your makeup.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_05: You don't have to be in your room.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_05: She laughs, she plays, she just comes in and made you laugh.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_05: It was wonderful.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_05: She was the happiness a lot from all of us.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_05: It was it was just amazing.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, her character, everything.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_08: I really appreciate you sharing all that because it sounds like Iris was like the life of your family in a lot of ways.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_05: When she passed, we're like, what's going on here?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_05: What's gonna be fast?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_05: We we feel lost.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_05: It was painful for everyone, everybody quiet, nothing commented or anything.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, it was just different.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_08: If you're comfortable sharing, can you walk walk us through what happened and what you remember the day, that day, or what followed, the day you found out Iris uh was murdered?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_05: She was by then she was living by herself in her own apartment on that location where the murder was.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_05: She lives on those apartments, and then she only has less than a year that she moves there.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_05: She used to live with me, and then that year she moves by herself, and she was so happy to have her first apartment, and then at this time she was in contact with me on the phone because she wanted to go to that show coming, big, big show coming to Houston.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_05: And then she got only three months to get ready, right?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_05: And then so she was uh at that time she already was like making readings and spiritual things.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_05: She told me that that day, no, three days before, on Friday afternoon, she called me, they sent me the money so I can pay the I can pay the subscription for the for the show.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_05: I go, Mother, I'm gonna be selling candles.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_05: She was selling candles and aromatic soap, and then she reading cards, the tarot, and everything for that fare.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_05: I don't remember the name of the show, but it was everything spiritual, magic, and things like that.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_05: So it's coming to Houston, so it was like uh a hundred and something dollars, and then she said, Can you send me this?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_05: And then I just need to pay half of it, and then I will pay the rest, and then later I'm gonna call her and tell her, you know, to go get the money.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_05: Then we don't hear from her after that, and so we're waiting and waiting for her call.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_05: She didn't call.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_05: And then I told my my daughter Luvier to call her and find out if she was ready so we can send the money right now, because we have to wait for her to call us.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_05: So she called her and she's like, Mother, she's not answering me.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_05: So don't worry, she doesn't need the money no more.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_05: Don't don't worry.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_05: It was Saturday and then Sunday afternoon, somebody called me and says, Did you know where Iris is?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_05: And I said, No, she's supposed to call me, but I'm waiting for her.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_05: We call her and she has an answer.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_05: And they say, Well, you should go and visit with her because I don't know, something happened.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_05: I heard something.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_05: And then I don't want to say anything.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_05: And I was like, What?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_05: What happened?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_05: And then I stopped by the by her apartment and I knock on the door, never answer.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_05: So I stayed there and then nothing.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_05: I went home and I told my daughter.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_05: My daughter went and online, and then she started looking on hospitals, asking for her, and yell, everything, anything if something happened and with that name and nothing, nothing.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_05: So we're like, Where where we can where we can look for her?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_05: And I say, I don't know, I'm going tomorrow again to her apartment.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_05: I had to find her.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_05: So my daughter was like, Mother, don't worry.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_05: Every hospital I call, they don't have iris.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_05: They have one iris, but it's not her.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_05: They told me her name, but it's not her.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_05: The last name is different.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_05: And uh so don't worry, she's fine.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_05: So we wait, and then the next day I went in the morning.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_05: It was Monday.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_05: I went and I waited, I knocked on the door, nobody answered.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_05: I went through the window, nothing.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_05: It was like nobody knows.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_05: Then it was these people right there.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_05: It was a person that sees me, and then she asked me, Are you looking for the person who lives there?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_05: And I say, Yeah.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_05: She said, You don't know, you don't hear nothing.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_05: They say they kill her.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_05: And I no, no, no, no, that's not my daughter.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_05: And then she said, Well, they that it was right there at Chick-fil-A, you know, and then I was like, No, it's not my daughter, I just talked to her.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_05: That's not my daughter.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_05: Then she I say, How is she?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_05: And then she said, Well, she has long hair and sometimes wear wigs.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_05: And I was like, That's not my daughter, that's not my daughter.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_05: Then I just I just fall on the concrete and sit down there and lay down on the on the wall.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_05: She says, Oh, are you the mother?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm saying, My daughter lives here.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_05: And then she says, I don't know what happened, but it was so much police, and she kept telling me.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_05: And I said, No, no, it's not.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_05: Then she said, No, it's okay.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't know you're the mother.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_05: So I tell her, no, it's I'm scared it's not my daughter.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_05: I had to find her.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_05: And then another people from the apartments come in by and they say, What happened in?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_05: So this lady went and told them who I was, and then they come in, it was the people who cleans the apartments from the maintenance people, and then they just tell me, you have to go to the office.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_05: I think I think the person you're looking for is your daughter.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_05: And I was like, no, it's not my daughter.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_05: No.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_08: So it was it was even hard to even accept the truth at the time because it's like.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, suddenly, yes, suddenly.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, like, he never had anybody like like, you know, at that time she doesn't have a boyfriend.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_05: She doesn't she has some friends, girls that she she walked with them or to the store or something, but that was it.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_05: But so I called, I called my my daughter, Louby, and I I tell her what's happening, and then she was at work and she said, Mother, just stay there, don't move.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_05: I'll be there in 25 minutes.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_05: Then I just stay there and I say, I'm gonna call the police right now.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_05: They have to come and tell me what happened.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_05: She said, Yeah, yeah, call them, but don't leave there.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_05: Stay there.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_05: I'll be there.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_05: So I called the police, you know, and people come in and then they tell me I had to go to the office.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_05: I call the police and they say, we cannot give you information.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_05: I say, how come?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_05: It's my daughter talking about my daughter.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_05: Well, they tell me if I not calm down, they come and get me arrest.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_05: And I say, okay, you can do whatever, but you have to come right now because I need you right here.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_05: So the the girl says, you know, she's gonna connect me with another person at the police department, but they cannot give me any information.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_05: So my daughter came and she talked to them.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_05: So we went to the office finally, and then they called the police and they say that we wait there for a few hours and nothing.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_05: The police never show up.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_05: They don't say anything.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_05: So the manager came and he told me he cannot give me information because I'm not in the contract, and I don't care.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_05: I want to know what happened, you know, if he knows something.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_05: And then he says, yes, it's your daughter, but I cannot tell you anything.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, you have to wait for the police outside.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_05: And so we just went into the car and waited there.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_05: The police never shows up, so we went home and I just passed out.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_05: I don't even remember.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_05: My daughter was the one that tried to do everything and, you know, talk to people or find out what's what was happening.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_08: Do you feel like law enforcement and the justice system has been supportive of you in the aftermath?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_05: Not at all.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_05: No, instead of helping me, they're telling me that they're gonna arrest me.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_05: And then when they say they're coming in an hour and let us know any information they have, they never show up.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_05: So we went home and that night the two officers came and then they told me they show me pictures and asked me questions.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I'm still alive here, so that's all what I can do.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_05: She's not here, but she's still with me.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_05: She's still with me every single day.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, it's it's it's right there.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_05: It's telling me, Mom, go, go, do this.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_05: Like she was, like she was.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_05: Don't be quiet, mother.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_05: They're not gonna listen to you.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_05: She was telling me, you know what is your problem, mom?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_05: They don't listen to you because you're so soft, you're so nice to people that they just think they can't walk through you.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, no, no, I just not like you.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_05: I don't want the scandals, I don't want this.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_08: She did not bite her tongue.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_08: When you close your eyes and think of Iris, what do you still hear her saying or feel her spirit doing?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_05: She's right here.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_05: I know she's here with me.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_05: Like I just saw you pushing me, saying, Don't leave this quality, mother.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_05: The big, big day I'm gonna always remember, and it's gonna keep when I close my eyes and when I before I go to sleep.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_05: I remember the last time I saw her.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_05: And it was the week before.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_05: I remember exactly.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_05: We eating her hamburger and soda in the car and talking.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_05: And then before she left, she was like, Thank you, mother, thank you so much.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_05: I love you so much, and she hugged me.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_05: She hugged me the whole body from inside the car.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know you ever being in a car being hugged.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_08: It is suffocating.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_05: She just got on top of me and hug me with both hands and arms, and then she said, I love you so much.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_05: She's the best thing I have in my life, mother.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_05: And I just miss when we were little and and live at the house, and we all together and happy.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_05: And then she got out of the car and she opened the door again and she said, Wait, I love you so much.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_05: And then she hugged me again.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_05: That was the last time I saw her.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_05: She told me all that.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_05: Can you believe that?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_05: I'm never gonna forget that.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know what.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_08: Do you feel like Iris was saying that for a reason, or was she just like really happy that day?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_05: That was the last day I saw her, and then she was so happy, and then I even remember her arms around me, you know, and then squishing me and telling me, I love you, mother, I love you.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_05: You have to be strong always, and then that was the last time I always think she said bye to me that that night because it was like that.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_05: It was.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_05: I always believe it was it was her telling me goodbye without her knowing, and I know I'm not gonna see her again, she's not gonna hug me anymore.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_05: But it makes me happy to it makes me sad.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_05: And at the same time, when she passed away and they let me know, I know the next day or three days later, I know she was fine and then she was okay and she was happy, wherever she she was.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_05: I'm happy for her too that she's in a different world, better than she was.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_08: What do you think Iris would want us to carry forward and want the world to know and remember about her?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my gosh, she always talks about that.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_05: She always wants everybody loves each other.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_05: Everybody lives with no angry.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_05: She was like, Mother, it's so much angry in this world.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_05: We have to kill that.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_05: Like a family, we have to love each other.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_05: At least we start with that.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_05: She used to love singing um John Lennon, you know.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_05: My gosh.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_05: It's like when I hear that, it's like she's telling me the same thing.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_08: She was straight up a full-on lover.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_05: So oh my gosh, she was, she was.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_05: I told you.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_08: My gosh.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_08: I I can imagine.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, I've seen through this whole interview, you've carried so much and you let off so much grief and emotion.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_08: If there's other mothers listening or people you feel like that have been forgotten, especially transgender people, what would what would you say to the mothers in the families?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_05: I wish that every mother loves her children when they let them know I'm not transgender.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_05: I want to be any other or whatever they choose to be.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_05: Their mothers still love them for what they are, who they are.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_05: Especially, I mean, don't give your back to your children.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_05: And that's what I I I want because I learned that with her.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_08: So you learned to accept her over time, or were you Yes, okay.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_08: And I I I think that's that's something a lot of parents don't talk about, especially we're not we're not prepared for that, you know.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_05: Like you're not prepared for die one day, you're not prepared for nothing of those things.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_05: So when what do you think a mother feels or thinks when her children come in and say, I want to be uh binary, or I want to be uh transgender, or I want to be gay today.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_05: We're coming for these countries where it's and at that time, especially the time that it wasn't open mind, open to the world.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_05: You know, you if you're gay, you have to steal in the closet.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_05: It's sad because now I've seen this is still happening because I saw older people and they're gay.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_05: You can tell they're gay, but they will never accept it, but they will never come out to the world and say, Yes, I am who I am.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_05: And Iris was like, I am this, I want to be transgender, and I am transgender.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_05: I don't care what you think, I don't care what you want.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_08: And I think it made a lot of difference that you know, that you gave her that sort of environment.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_08: Sometimes it's not perfect as a parent.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_08: You learn, you grow into it, but you you gave her love, is what I'm hearing, and she felt loved back.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_05: I think she teached me to love her no matter what.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_08: She was like, you're gonna do it anyway.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_05: But then I say, it's my daughter, how can I say that was the difference?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_05: Because when my husband knows, let me tell you, he never accepted.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_05: He lives with her, but he made fun of her or mocking about her, you know?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_05: And then and I was disappointed because his daughter too, but he'd never understand.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_05: He was that kind of mind that they tell you you're a man, you a man always, doesn't matter whatever.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_05: And it's very sad.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_05: All the mothers they should they should think before they give the back to their children just because they have made a decision, what they want to be, how they want to live their lives, or as long as they don't harm in anyone.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_05: The love that we learn from her is it's a lot.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_05: It's enough.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_05: We're we're so happy to we're so happy.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_05: I will say not to Iris, but thank you, God, for letting me have a daughter like Iris in my life for the years that I have.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_05: It was 22 years and it was enjoyment, and I came town every year, and it was only like experiences learning, growing with her, and then so much love.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_08: Iris would be 25 today, yes.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_08: 25.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, in October she will be.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_05: It's uh yeah, 25.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_08: Everyone, if you have any information about the murder of Iris Santos, you were advised to call 713-222-TIPS.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_08: And there's currently, I believe, a thousand dollar reward.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_10: Yes.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_08: And you can remain anonymous as well.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_08: And Maria, is there anything else you'd like to add about the case?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_08: About about Iris as well, not just the case.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_05: Well, yes, I know some you know, it was a killer for my daughter's murder, but it's also someone that knows who did it.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_05: It's always someone that knows and if the and it's only a clue that the police needs to to get through this case.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_05: So they they if somebody there is is listening and they know something, I will really, really, really ask for their help.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_05: And be thankful for if somebody did that, you know, from my heart.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_08: Let's help Maria get justice for Iris Sagra and help a grieving mom get justice.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_08: Um that's seven one three two two two tips.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_08: And there's a five thousand dollar award out right now for the capture of the murderer.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_08: Thank you so much, Maria, for coming on the house.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_09: Hi, I'm Brett Cullum, and today I am joined by Julia Crohn.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_09: She is a Houston theater icon.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_09: I mean, she's done his shows all around town, including Theater Under the Stars, Catastrophic Stages, Main Street.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_09: She's done dramas and musicals, several world premieres, and she was in a Vegas production of Jersey Boys.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_09: She's been a Disney princess as Belle in a production of Beauty and the Beast.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_09: She was in Tuts' Best Little Whore House in Texas and all shook up.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_09: She's just amazing.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_09: And I'm I'm here to talk with her today about her appearing in the Tuts season opener, the 25th annual Putnam County Spelling Bee.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_09: Julia, how are you?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Brett.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's so nice to be here with you.
• 31:29
  unknown: Yeah.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_09: Well, tell me a little bit about the 25th annual Putnam County Spelling Bee.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_09: What's the story for those who've never seen it?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_09: I know.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_09: I every time I do it, I'm like, oh my gosh.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's why everybody shortens it to Spelling Bee.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_09: Yes.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it is a show that is so close to my heart.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: When I was living in New York uh from 2004 to 2008, uh was when it came to Broadway.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I saw it there on Broadway.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was brought in quite a bit uh for Olive at the time.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm too old for that now.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um she's aged.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but this character that I'm playing, Rona, actually has been a dream role for me since then because I was so touched by that role and especially the song that sung later.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: But the show itself is so unique.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's about a spelling bee.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's adults playing kids.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yes, there's a lot of silliness, but there's so much heart, and each speller, each child is so unique and brings a lot of aspects to childhood and just people in general that I think speak to all of us and little quirks and idiosyncrasies and even struggles, you know, struggles that that kids might have.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it runs the gamut where you could say, yeah, it's a it's a comedic musical theater piece, and there is this heart that is the through line and that it's it speaks to you in a way that might surprise you.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're gonna have a great time, and I think you're also gonna walk away with with something pretty deep.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there's some audience interaction, audience participation, which always sounds like bad words to some people.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like saying improv to a group of people who've never done it.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, but yes, yes, some lucky, lucky audience members will be uh there will be an interview process sort of happening in the lobby, as I understand it, to sort of recruit some audience members to become members of the spelling bee.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that's so fun about that is obviously, I would guess for the most part, they will be adults, but they will be playing children just like our actors.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and they'll they'll get some preparation beforehand, but some of it is just, you know, it's just improv and it's in the moment and they won't know what word they're gonna be given.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, as with anything, I I did um the ugly Christmas sweater the last two years for Tuts, and there was so much of that, which I wasn't as used to, and it's just made me love participating with the audience in that way, you know, getting people to just kind of step outside their comfort zone and throw themselves into it.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's it's pretty cool in that respect.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_09: As a kid, I think I was traumatized by spelling bees.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_09: I think even though I write, I I don't think I live for grammarly.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_09: I mean, come on, correct my spelling.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so much pressure.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: Don't put me on the spot.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_09: Yes, I'm not sure I can do it.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_09: That may be the first one out.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, oh my gosh, I would be, definitely.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_09: So you're playing this time Rona Lisa perennially, is that right?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, Rona Lisa.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_09: Who is she?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: She sort of leads the spelling bee.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, she won the spelling bee many years before and has carried that torch with her.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh she lives and breathes this world.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, she continually sings about it.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: She continually says, that's my favorite moment of the bee.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: And she says that about uh 10 or 12 different aspects of the spelling bee.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think near the end is where you really get to the core of what her favorite moment is.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, this is just this is her world.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where she thrives.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: And she also has to sort of have some bumps along the way, things that that take her a little, catch her off guard.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she has to think on her feet.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, again, like with any good show, everybody's learning in the show, right?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: They're not stagnant characters.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody has to go on a journey.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she has a really fun one.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_09: Well, it's not like you guys are in for a wild ride because they improv, singing, audience.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_09: I mean, there's a lot going on at this.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_09: So how did you get cast in this one?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, Dan Connectus, our artistic director, yes, who is also a dear friend of mine.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think partly because of working together with him on Ugly Christmas Sweater, which was his play that he co-wrote with his dear friend Megan Larch Dominic, and directed and staged.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he saw me get to do so much of that audience participation, and he he knows my voice and and uh sort of my my character well.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: So so he asked me to play this role, and I was able to tell him what what a dream this is for me.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_09: Well, let me ask you, Julia, how did you get into theater?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_09: What was little Julia like in her interview?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_09: Oh, little Julia.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Her her entry started in the womb.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Both of my parents are are staples of this theater community in Houston.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um my mom has taught and performed in Houston uh for her whole life.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: She's 80.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: My uh my dad was a member of the acting company at the alley for 55 years.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um he's 96, and both of them worked for Tuts um when it was the music hall, and then on to the hobby center.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I've I've grown up quite literally uh in the theater scene here.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um I have three older brothers, two of them decided to go into finance, smart men.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but myself and my eldest brother really got bit bit by this bug.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh like Rona, I've sort of lived and breathed this world my whole life, and it's always been my passion.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I've really gotten into the education side of it as well uh over the last 10, 15 years, and that's been really rewarding.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's just kind of in my DNA, I think, Brett.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_09: No, I think I saw you on stage with your mom, actors it's Chelsea and Sotoro.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Chesley.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_09: Chesley, I'm so sorry.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_09: No, it's I just see that name and I immediately think Chelsea, but it's Chesley.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_09: But you you both did a show called Memorium at Main Street Theater.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_09: What was that like?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's your mom.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to put it into words.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: I know that sounds trite, but obviously I've lived my whole theater life with my mom.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: She's directed me and she's choreographed me, and she's always been side by side with me in so many ways performing, but we've never been able to stand on stage together and look in each other's eyes because we did all shook up together, but we never had scenes together.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and my dad and I have been lucky enough to do some plays together, but it was so special at that play in particular, because of the nature of our relationship of her being my grandmother and it being it being so close and a very intense play.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: The kind of interactions we were able to have on stage were just so special.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I will carry it with me always.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_09: Oh no, I saw it.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_09: I loved it.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm so glad.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_09: I was just thrilled to see you and Chesley together and doing that.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_09: And and when I found out the connection, I was like, oh, no wonder.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_09: What have some of your favorite roles been like over your career?
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of my favorite shows was probably Jersey Boys, partly because of the experience, just being able to hop around.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we started in New York, then we were in San Francisco, then we got to open in Las Vegas.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I don't know if you've seen that show, but it's just it's a show sort of like no other.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's a Duke op musical, but uh I don't know.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's something about it.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it has this heart to it, um, even though it has that nature um where you're just so engrossed in the world and those characters.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: I got to play 19 different characters in that show.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it was just such a unique experience.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that was probably one of my favorite experiences in terms of theater.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: But even as hard as it was, I would say Memoriam is really up there as well.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then sort of to the theaters, again, maybe it sounds unbelievable, but everything I've done at Tuts has had its own um has had it me, whether it was a show like doing chorus line because my mom did chorus line on Broadway.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: So getting to fill that space, getting to do warehouse that both of my parents both did years ago.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's funny that you asked that question.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've ever been able to answer that question with a clear answer.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think because everything has been so unique in in their own ways.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: And as I get older, the experiences just get more special because I appreciate them more.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I is I that didn't really answer your question.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_09: Oh no, that's fine.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_09: No, I mean, absolutely, we got enough.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_09: So you live and teach here in Houston, correct?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_09: What's it like being a teacher of it's it's wonderful.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I graduated from HSPVA, so getting to be back there teaching has just been so incredible.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've been there on and off really since 2008-2009, but I've been there more consistently since uh since 2020, actually, when when the world ended and then was rebirthed.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I also just recently started teaching with the education department at the alley.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that has been such a special experience because of my connection to the theater.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Cheney Tullus, who heads up the education department there.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you know him.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um he's just he's the best.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: And the work we've been doing has actually been with adults.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we're bringing acting to medical professionals, to people at Shell Oil, to lawyers.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: So getting to bring education away from people who are used to it, away from people who know anything about it, and getting to use those fundamentals, maybe in surgery, you know, maybe uh fighting a case for a client has been pretty special.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_09: Okay.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_09: So my gosh, this title again 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling B.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just word salad.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_09: It is absolutely.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_09: It's October 21st, is when it opens.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_09: It runs through November 2nd at the hobby center.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_09: Obviously, six spellers, one B, lots of laughs.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_09: Yes.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_09: Oh, and Dan is choreographing and directing this one, right?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_10: Dan's yes.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_09: Yes.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_09: So you're working with him again.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_09: What's that like coming back to working with Dan again?
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: So easy.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it just it just is.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's he's I don't know if you I'm sure you've heard the term before.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: He's such an actor's director.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think being a performer himself for so long, he just he understands and listens and and hears you and sees you in a way that's um that's that's very unique and makes you feel so much more confident in what you're doing.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_09: I've talked to him quite a few times.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_09: He's a very nice guy.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_09: So what's next for you after the spelling bee?
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_09: Do you know?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's a little bit crazy.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: So my last week of performances with spelling bee is my first week of rehearsals for a Christmas carol at the alley.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: I used to do a Christmas carol for years and years and years and sort of got away from that and and back to to Tuts for a while.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I haven't done this current version of a Christmas carol.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that's gonna be fun.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I I know most of the people, so it'll be lovely to be back back in that home.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_09: We will see you at Tuts first.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_09: That will be fun October 1st through November 2nd, Hobby Center season opener.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_10: Yes, we've been excited.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_09: Fun and funny and lots of stuff.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_09: So break all the legs, run that bee like between the two R.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_09: Yes, right, and thank you.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Brett.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_09: Hi there, this is Brett and Lee again, and we're gonna be talking about a show on Netflix.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_09: But first, I wanted to say thank you.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_09: The podcast that we host together, Prairie Rainbow Review, was nominated for an OutSmart Gayest and Greatest as Best Podcast.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_09: Now we were nominated, we didn't win.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, I was so thrilled about that.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_07: We're less than a year old and we were already on the list.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_07: So that was enough for me.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_07: But let's not forget, you had been nominated in several categories yourself.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_07: So yes, very worth those nominations and and should have built should have won.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_09: Which tells me I'm a jack of all trades and a master of none because I was spreading myself too thin, I guess.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_09: Anyway, but what we're really here to talk about instead of awards and things like that is a show on Netflix, and it was called House of Guinness.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_09: This is a historical drama that is set in Ireland, and it tells the tale of the Guinness family who established the brewery and became the richest family in Ireland at the times.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_09: And it was created by a man named Stephen Patrick.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_09: He's a British filmmaker and he's done some really brilliant films.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_09: I loved dirty pretty things.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_09: It was amazing.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_09: And then there was another show of his that we watched, Peaky Blinders, which was really gritty, historical.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_09: He's got a certain style.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_09: It's very Quentin Tarantino-esque, a lot of like kind of violence and modern music thrown in.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, once you know the connection, you can definitely see it in the visuals and the productions.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_07: So this story follows the consequences of a succession of the death of Benjamin Guinness in 1868.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_07: He's the man that was actually responsible for the extraordinary success of the Guinness Brewery.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_07: Fates of his four children are at the center of the story.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_07: Oldest son was Arthur, followed by Edward, daughter Anne, and finally the last child was Benjamin.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, and the series premiered last month.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_09: It was September 25th on Netflix.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_09: It's been in the top 10 ever since it premiered.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_09: And I wanted to emphasize it's a mix of history and fantasy.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_09: This is fiction to a degree.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_09: It's not entirely historically accurate, and I don't want anybody going in there thinking that, but we found it really fun and engaging.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_09: And the cast was just really great.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_09: Amazing.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_09: We've got Anthony Boyle as the oldest son, Arthur Guinness, and he's the eldest.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_09: We've got Lewis Partridge, who plays Edward Guinness, Emily Fairn as Ann Plunkett, and she's actually Ann Guinness.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_09: She just gets married, so her name becomes Plunkett.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_09: And then we got Fionne O'Shea as Benjamin Lee Guinness II.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_09: So he bears his father's name, but he's not quite up to his father's legacy, I suppose.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_07: That's about it.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_07: That's all they share.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_07: So Arthur, in real history, never had children, became a politician.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_07: He left the family brewery business to pursue a career in politics.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_07: And that is all that's true.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_07: The show paints him as a gay man.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_07: And if you look at the history, the history that we can find does support that.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, he very well could have been.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_07: Could have been.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_07: Edward Guinness, the second child, he led the Guinness brand into great success, into its next series of successes.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_07: He was the mastermind behind the brand.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_07: In the show, they highlight his contributions much earlier than what they actually occurred in real history.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_07: And then we have Anne Guinness.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_07: She was the woman, suffered from certain health issues, which they did put in the book that or the series.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, series.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_07: And that's what we found in real life as well.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_07: But she did work tirelessly for charitable causes.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_07: That also is true.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_07: The show gives her a lot of spunk, and she was more involved in the family business than what she probably would have been otherwise.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, they really took some liberties with the roles and because I think that they gave her a lot of agency that maybe women wouldn't have had back then.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_09: But they do that with a lot of the women on the show, which I appreciate because I like a good, strong female character.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_09: But sometimes you think, oh, how historically accurate is this part.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_07: But I I agree.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, but I enjoy it and I wouldn't want to see it any other way in that thing.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_07: So kind of just a little bit about us, pulling the curtain back a little bit.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_07: So we have a lot of show genres that we like to watch.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_07: And costume dramas, I think that's more a favorite of mine than it is of yours, but this certainly fits this, and I think you enjoyed it as much as I did.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, no, I like this one.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_09: I have a tendency to like costume dramas, but they have to be a certain tone or pace.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_09: I don't like those glacial slow PBS ones where it's just the woman on the valley and yeah, well, I'm with you on that.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_09: I don't know.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_09: I mean, I just I like a little bit more zing to everything, and I have really enjoyed a lot of the costume dramas, but they just had to have a certain pace, maybe.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_09: I think that's what I look for.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_09: For interest.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_09: And I think this show really did that.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_09: Did a good job of it, yeah.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_09: It felt modern.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_09: Even though it was period.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_09: The way Stephen Patrick incorporated the music, there are what we call needle drops.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_09: He had a lot of like very punky Irish music, and I kept just jamming it on the show, going, What's the song?
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_07: That was probably one thing that bothered me a little bit.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_07: I mean, I would have liked to have had the music a little closer to the period of time, but I mean it didn't distract me enough to to not like it or even take away from much at all.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_07: Oh no, I am down for some good Irish rap.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_10: Amazing.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_09: We really liked it.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_09: We couldn't come up with anything bad about it.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_09: So from a production standpoint, gorgeous.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_09: I don't know how much of the sets were CGI and how much of them were real, but they felt pretty real.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, wow.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_07: They were crazy.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, it a lot of it looked like it might have been done on site because the buildings really did, and the streets all look real.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_07: The the production sets, designs, costumes, even.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_09: No, the costumes were amazing.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_09: Whoever did those costumes, good gosh.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_07: Yep, they looked great.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_07: And I that's always important for a period thing.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_07: And then one other thing that kind of helped the storyline, I think, was casting actors that aren't as well known as other actors.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_07: So you you're not accustomed to seeing them in other roles.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_07: Um that doesn't mean they haven't been in them, they have, but using them, and uh I wasn't that familiar with them.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_07: Maybe you were, but I wasn't.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_07: Uh so it helped the believability of the character they were trying to portray portray.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, I mean, it's uh a lot of people that I didn't necessarily uh recognize.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_09: Now, of course, we recognize Anthony Boyle, played Arthur.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_09: I mean, because we watched Manhunt.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_09: Yes, exactly.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_09: On Apple Plus.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_09: And he was really good in Manhunt.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_09: He had a really great presence.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, he he does.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_07: And even in this one, he really seems to get into the character so much so that he disappears and brings that character to life.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_07: Because it you're right, we saw him in Manhunt.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_07: Very believable.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_07: I liked him in that.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_07: This is a totally different role for him.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_09: Well, and a lot of our friends started talking about this uh one scene.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_09: Uh, yep.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_09: In episode three, he has a very impressive coming out of the bath scene with his butler.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_09: And there was a huge debate online on whether it was real or whether it was fake, because a lot of times now, a lot of productions use prosthetics to simulate nudity.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_09: And and they've done this for a long time.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_09: I mean, don't think that this is completely nude.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_08: Not new at all.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, and they've always done that for women a lot of times.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_09: Like there's a whole thing called a Merkin, which is when they take something to give you a modesty patch, but it looks like you're naked.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_09: And they used to do that for women because it was more typical for women to be naked in movies and television shows.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_09: But now, as more and more men have to go there, they've created prosthetics that can cover and give them a little bit of privacy and make them look a little bit less shy, maybe?
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_09: This guy claims, Anthony Boyle claims, that it is the real deal, that that is 100% him, and that he actually rallied for the inclusion of the scene.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_09: Originally in the script, he was just supposed to be putting on cufflinks, and he said, No, I want it to be coming out of the bathtub.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_09: Yep.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_09: And he did.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_09: And it was impressive.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_09: Yep.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_09: So those of you that are interested in that, yes.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_09: I thought it was really interesting because it wasn't part of a love scene, and it wasn't anything erotic or anything like that.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_07: It was just a matter-of-fact.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_07: I don't think they did it in a distracting way.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_09: No, no, I mean I think it was a well done, well-photographed scene.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_09: And if you're gonna do something like that, good gosh, make it well photographed.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_09: Yes, absolutely.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_09: Which he did.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_09: Yes.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_09: Now we talk about little-known actors, but there was one actor who I didn't recognize, but he's pretty popular.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_09: Yes.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_09: His name is Jack Gleason, and he played Joffrey on Game of Thrones.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_07: I didn't realize that until you said that.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_09: Yes.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_09: He plays one of their cousins, and he's kind of made up in the show.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_09: He plays a character that goes to America and negotiates a lot of the business in America for Guinness.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_09: And he's part of their family, but also part of the Irish Revolution, the Finnians.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_09: Yes.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_09: So he he plays both sides, but he's not as evil as he was in Game of Thrones, although he is a little manipulative.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_09: I know that's kind of a nice way to say it, but it was nice to see Jack Gleason doing something other than Game of Thrones and to do it in a way I didn't even know it was him at first.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_07: I didn't either.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_07: Once you said it, I recognized him.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_07: But until then, I did not.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_07: So what do you think of history when it's fictionalized or dramatized?
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_09: Do you like fictional history or if you're such a history guy?
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, if the end is the same, then the journey is just all you're really talking about.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_07: You know, we were not there for those conversations.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_07: So we can't say yes or no, they did happen, did or didn't happen the way that was portrayed in the series.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_07: However, you know, the storyline went the way that it did in history for the most part.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_07: The end at where they stopped the story at this one was the the same.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_07: So I think fictionalizing it is good.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_07: You know, the writing was good in this one.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_07: I'm not always fond of that, but I yeah, I think to tell the story, you have to do some measure of that.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_09: Well, I think what they did with House of Guinness, they really upped maybe the violence.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_09: And Stephen Patrick kind of gave them some different things that probably are not historically accurate.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_09: And he did add a couple of episodes.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_09: Like a lot of the characters, like we mentioned, cousin, there's also a fixer that works for the family named Rafferty.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_09: He's a made-up character.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_09: He's not real.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_09: A lot of the characters are made up of kind of conglomerations of people.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_09: And there are a couple of big events that did not happen historically.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_07: So as you watch it, do what we do and look it up to see what is true and what is not true.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_07: I used to do that on my own, but Brett does it so quickly now.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_07: I I'd just let him do it and tell me.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_09: Well, I was actually a history major in college.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_09: So every time I see something and I think it's a little bit off, I immediately start thinking, oh my gosh, I gotta find out right now.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_09: I can't wait.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_09: And I do a lot of that.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_09: I do ping a lot of things just to get a good grip of what is being dramatized and what is being chronicled.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_09: But from what I could tell, the the Guinness family, if we did just a straight biography of them, would be kind of dull.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_07: Because they don't write that stuff down.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_07: And we see that everywhere.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_07: I see that in my own family.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_07: So that does not surprise me.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_07: So fictionalizing it, yes, I think that is a good thing.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_09: I think the Guinnesses were kind of just sweet people in general in history, because they started like health care and pensions and they provided housing for the poor.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_09: I mean, they were kind of saintly in a weird way in Ireland.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_09: But so I think that the Guinness, if we did a straight history of them, it would be that PBS documentary that might be a little bit more slow-paced and not quite.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_09: And like I said, they compacted a lot of the time periods.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_09: This one they make it almost immediate.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_09: But how likely would the relationships have been at that time?
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, all of them seem to have these really problematic relationships in the stories of their individual stories.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_07: So yeah, I have to ask myself just how many of them would be true?
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_07: And I think the ones that they portrayed for Arthur, I think that gay relationships at that point probably were something very similar to what they were showing at that or in the series.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_07: And the relationship between him and his wife was probably correct.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_07: I would think that those would be true to the period.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_09: Well, I mean, definitely his wife married to a politician, married to a wealthy family, all of that.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_09: She it was a lavender marriage, I think is what we call it.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_09: Okay.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_09: I mean, in history, we don't know.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_09: They just never had any children.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_09: So take of that as what you will.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_09: Maybe biological reason.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_09: I mean, there may not be she could have, or he could have not have been able to have children.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_09: So it doesn't uh mean that they were or weren't.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_09: And that kind of is just part of making it dramatic.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_09: I think it's giving a conflict between the brothers and the the whole perception of, oh my gosh, I'm gonna hide the secret.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_09: You know.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_09: And it was interesting that other brother, they kind of layer in an affair.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_09: And his life becomes almost a business negotiation too.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_09: And I don't know.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_09: I mean, I I I imagine that people did often get married for society reasons or prestige, or like I'm gonna advance my family name, but you know, they really make that kind of look.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_09: The institution of marriage on House of Guinness does not look particularly great.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_07: Even the daughter, even though the that was their relationship with her husband wasn't, you know, a front story in there, you could tell that there were some difficulties in that relationship, and she was seeing someone else on the side.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_07: So, as were all the rest of them.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_09: I mean, and that's a soap opera kind of thing to do.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_09: The interesting thing I thought about Anne Guinness is they make the reason for her not to be included in her father's estate is that she is married and that her husband will provide for her.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, which apparently he's not capable of.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_07: I think the way they wrote her was very, very smart.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_07: I like the storyline for her and what she did and those things.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_07: Very clever.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_07: And yes, I would like to think that she was that clever in real life.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_09: Now, the Netflix show, it's only eight episodes, easy to bench.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_07: And apparently they're gonna have a second season.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_07: Yes, they have a significant cliffhanger at the end.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, and that cliffhanger was one of the ones that I think they deviate a little bit from history.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_09: But I think it's to get them another season.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_09: Where do you think they could go in a second season?
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_09: I guess just more intrigue and relationship trauma.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, and the business continued to grow.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_07: They they made some changes that we don't want to talk about here because that'll spoil the series.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_07: But they do some things to set up storylines for a second season.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_07: Well, House of Guinness.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_09: Yep.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_09: Definitely one that we would both recommend.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_09: Yep, for sure.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_09: Got a little something for everybody.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_09: If you're Irish, if you're alcoholic, if you're into politics, if you're into secret affairs, really great clothes, and Irish rap.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_09: So you can do it all.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_09: Got a little bit for everyone.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_03: This has been Queer Voices, heard on KPFT Houston.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_03: And as a podcast available from several podcasting sources, check our webpage queervoices.org for more information.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the material in this program has been edited to improve clarity and runtime.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: This program does not endorse any political views or animal species.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: Views, opinions, and endorsements are those of the participants and the organizations they represent.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: In case of death, please discontinue use and discard remaining products.