Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #237: The Great Opt-Out: Reclaiming Our Kids and Our Food from Corporate Overreach

Transcript

Episode #237: The Great Opt-Out: Reclaiming Our Kids and Our Food from Corporate Overreach · Beyond Labels Premium

0:00
SPEAKER_02: The social media conversation, if you will, is not just an interaction.
0:04
SPEAKER_02: There's something either added or left out that moves it toward a place of addiction.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: This is the tactic of the tobacco company and the ultra-processed food companies, which brings me to another story.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: The EPA just reapproved.
0:22
SPEAKER_02: Hello, everybody.
0:23
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to another episode of Beyond Labels with your co-hosts.
0:27
SPEAKER_02: That would first of all would be me, Joel Salatin, the farmer, and our favorite researcher, Dr.
0:33
SPEAKER_02: Cena McCullough.
0:34
SPEAKER_02: Today we're continuing to pick up some more uh current events and issues in the headlines.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: And uh, but before we do, before we pick up those, let me just um I'll I'll I'll plug Cena so she's not plugging it herself.
0:48
SPEAKER_02: Cena's first book, Sena's first book.
0:50
SPEAKER_02: So the two of us wrote Beyond Labels a few years ago, but that was after she had already done her first book, Hands Off My Food.
0:59
SPEAKER_02: That's the title, Hands Off My Food.
1:01
SPEAKER_02: And it's about all the problems uh with labeling and all that.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm happy to report that it's been she's put in a lot of effort and completely updated it, and um it is now available.
1:16
SPEAKER_02: And uh it is when I read it the first time, I thought, wow, this gal's got something on the ball here.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: And um, and so uh if you haven't read her the first edition of Hands Off My Food, um the second one is going to be way better and it's updated, and uh I highly recommend it.
1:35
SPEAKER_02: So um, so a plug for Sina's Hands Off My Food.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: It's available on Amazon and anywhere books are sold.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: So with that in mind, let's proceed on to the first kind of topic.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: I've been fascinated, Sina, by all these stories about um that are that are hot right now, parents suing social media companies for teen suicides.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: Of course, look, as a parent of a teen that commits suicide, I mean, can you imagine the heartbreak?
2:07
SPEAKER_02: So let's all just appreciate a moment the you know, the heartbreak of a parent whose teen commits suicide.
2:15
SPEAKER_02: It's easy if you haven't been through this, it's easy to look at a parent like this and say, were you blind?
2:24
SPEAKER_02: Didn't you know?
2:24
SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, that that's kind of a a natural first reaction.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: But um, but these these lawsuits are coming, I mean, they're coming pretty fast and furious, actually, and they've taken a bit of a different tack.
2:42
SPEAKER_02: And Cena, I'd be glad to get your you know, your feedback on this.
2:46
SPEAKER_02: What what they've done is instead of just suing, you know, your social media um uh made my child have poor self-worth or or didn't protect my child, um, and instead, now they're going from a different angle, and that is that your social media platform, you have designed it to be inherently addictive.
3:15
SPEAKER_02: Now, the defense on this, the social media companies, the defense has been interesting.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: Uh they they have kind of vacillated between, well, you're responsible for what you watch.
3:27
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we can't be responsible for what you watch.
3:32
SPEAKER_02: All the way to well, of course they're supposed to be addictive.
3:37
SPEAKER_02: We're selling content, we're trying to make it addictive.
3:41
SPEAKER_02: And so there's there's uh I mean, not that they the defense doesn't use the word we want to make it addictive.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: What they do say is we'd be a crazy business.
3:52
SPEAKER_02: What business does not market itself to try to get more use?
3:57
SPEAKER_02: And so we're it would be a it would be a uh an anti-business.
4:04
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it would be a completely anti-human idea to say, I have a business, but I actually don't want people to use it.
4:15
SPEAKER_02: Um you know, that's so so the arguments, the arguments have been uh quite sophisticated actually in these cases.
4:24
SPEAKER_02: And I've I've been mesmerized, uh, you know, uh anytime there's a new cultural kind of watershed moment in how people are thinking about, you know, uh health problems, crises, these kind of things.
4:40
SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm I'm really struck by this new angle of it is inherently addictive.
4:49
SPEAKER_02: Not just that a particular post hurt my child or made my child commit suicide, but you have designed it to be inherently addictive, which made my child, you know, commit suicide.
5:04
SPEAKER_02: Um I don't I don't have I don't have strong opinions about it.
5:11
SPEAKER_02: I am fascinated by the arguments that are coming.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: My sense is that at the end of the day the wings of social media are going to be clipped somehow.
5:26
SPEAKER_02: That's just that's just my that's just my sense.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: And uh well because because juries have always been sympathetic to people that appear to have been harmed by something, whether it's cancer from tobacco, you know, whether it's uh you know, a non-Hodgkins lymphoma from glyphosate, you know, uh a car wreck.
5:51
SPEAKER_02: Uh it doesn't really matter, but but uh I mean, well, look I mean, look at look at the awards in in tort, you know, in tort cases.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, businesses run paranoid.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I hear it all the time when I even do encourage people to direct market.
6:08
SPEAKER_02: Well, how do you protect yourself from you know from suits?
6:11
SPEAKER_02: And um and so, you know, um, without significant tort reform, I think in general victims have the upper hand in most um of these kinds of lawsuits.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, as a parent of a teenager, uh, how do you where where's the culpability here?
6:43
SPEAKER_02: Um is is uh is it is it all on the social media company?
6:51
SPEAKER_02: Is it all on a parent?
6:53
SPEAKER_02: These are teens, they're not, you know, 10-year-olds.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: What's your take?
7:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, not knowing we were gonna talk about this today, but I would say so.
7:06
SPEAKER_00: The first thing that came that comes to my mind is that this is the tactic of the to the tobacco company and the ultra-processed food companies, that the intention is to make the product addicting.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: And they there is also the commonality that they all knew, right?
7:28
SPEAKER_00: I think that's one of the things that was disheartening to a lot of parents and consumers, is that the tobacco companies knew the ultra-processed food companies knew what was happening, and as it has come out, these social media companies knew that not only was it addicting, but to a certain extent, they knew the damage that was being done, in particular to teens and tweens, but they continued to market them.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's the point where, as a parent, I think there needs to be like, I guess you might call it even conscious capitalism, where I'm not opposed to companies making money.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: We all I think are aware, or at least most of it, most of us in this space are aware that it's their job to sell products and they're going to do what they need to do to sell the product.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: And so they're gonna make it addicting.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: They want you to keep using it.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: But it does cross a line for me as a parent when they know and they have internal data that it is causing such harm to, I mean, causing kids to take their own lives.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that to me crosses this moral line.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think at some point there, like if I was in that position, uh I would stop and I would probably start a different type of campaign to to help these children and these teens so that it became a more healthier environment.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: Like there's different ways that you could modify online use to not make it so harmful to people.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: And you know, the the man who wrote that book, The Ancient Anxious Generation that I've talked about before, he documents this clearly in that book, that it wasn't just the rise of technology in general that has led to increased suicide amongst teens, boy and girl teens, but particularly amongst the girls.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, it wasn't just technology, it was specific.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: It it was the the iPhone, it was where you can then connect.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: This is not the flip phones, it's the phones where you can connect to the internet and you can get on these apps and you can be bullied 24-7.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: You can can compare yourself to 24-7.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: And they'll get into these chat groups, for instance, where it's a it's a cry for help, right?
10:11
SPEAKER_00: These people uh in our culture were feeling a lot of people are just feeling unloved and unheard.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: And so now they have these groups that are like um, it's almost like a mass hysteria where someone will say, Oh, I have ticks, and they're posting videos and stuff of all these ticks, and then and people try to outdo them.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: And it's like whoever has the worst situation, that's the one that gets the most attention.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, every everything's about uh sensationalism.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: How can I be more sensational than the other guy?
10:44
SPEAKER_02: But you know, you know, uh Cena, it it it it does to me, it's an interesting um question about addiction.
10:52
SPEAKER_02: So I'm looking at I'm looking at at our own our own business here at Polyface.
10:56
SPEAKER_02: And um you know, we make uh we make snack sticks, beef pork, beef snakes, beef uh sticks, pork sticks.
11:08
SPEAKER_02: And we we smile and tell people, oh, these things are addictive, you know, because they taste so good.
11:15
SPEAKER_02: They're they're they're addictive.
11:19
SPEAKER_02: And um and as somebody so so this is stuff we ingest.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: So we ingest food, we ingest content, we so so when we when we ingest something, uh philosophically or physically um I you know I I just I just wonder could anybody accuse me of making chicken so good it's addictive, and if so, uh you know, I I mean the whole the that that addiction nuance is not is not simple to parse out.
12:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I like something.
12:02
SPEAKER_02: Well, um uh how does a how does a uh an outfit make a product um if it's really good I mean like the iPhone if it's a good product there's a fine line between um between something that's desirable.
12:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean again I put myself in my you know my eggs I think I are addictive.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: Okay, they're very desirable.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: Um but I'm not I'm not modifying anything from a natural form.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: And if we say social media is a modification of a of a conversation, think about two people having a conversation.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: What is it we we we would say that generally two people having a conversation is desirable but not addictive.
12:58
SPEAKER_02: You see how I'm I'm trying to parse this out a little bit, that that addiction is like a is like another level beyond desire.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: And so and so the the the social media conversation, if you will, um is not just an interaction like like on on a on a personal level where two people get to two people get together and they talk.
13:25
SPEAKER_02: It is there's something either added or left out that moves it into another state of of desire that moves it toward a place of addiction.
13:43
SPEAKER_02: And I don't have it all figured out, but but I but I do think that that that we're in we're in a really interesting cultural showdown between parents of damaged teens that have been damaged by a product that somehow has moved beyond nature.
14:07
SPEAKER_02: When I s when I sell you a chicken breast, it's a natural chick.
14:11
SPEAKER_02: I I haven't moved anything besides, I haven't moved anything beyond natural.
14:19
SPEAKER_02: If it tastes good, it's good.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: But to move that to a place of addiction, I almost have to manipulate the natural to something that is not natural.
14:28
SPEAKER_02: And and and a conversation that you and I can have watching each other in person, that's a very natural interaction.
14:37
SPEAKER_02: When you go to social media on the iPhone, there's something unnatural about it which and which which can move it into a place of addiction that we haven't been, we haven't been there before.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think from a scientific perspective, I would say that things like, you know, cigarettes and ultra-processed foods, those are manufactured with the intent of being addictive.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: And we have a lot of data and internal data from those companies that reveal that is true.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: It's a hyper-palatable food designed to, you know, it overstimulates the receptors.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: And so natural foods, like the foods that God gave us that you can grow in your own yard, do not do that.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: So scientists have figured out how to drive an addiction, in this case, even through food, for example, um, by changing its composition from something that was natural to unnatural.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: So that's something that was created by scientists.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't happen in nature.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: That's why, like honey doesn't have the same uh result when you eat that versus if you're, you know, eating a highly processed, like high fructose corn syrup.
16:02
SPEAKER_03: Right.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: It has a different effect on the physiology.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: So when you talk about uh media, you know, the the dopamine spikes are they occur when the brain anticipates a reward.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you're anticipating, and so it releases the dopamine and that drives behavior, it triggers that kind of seeking behavior that leads to like the uh craving, for example, the anticipation, it can it can drive addiction.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: When the when the brain is flooded with high-intensity rewards from things like high fructose corn syrup or like the viral videos, it actually can enter a dopamine deficient state.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: So it's gonna reduce its own receptors to protect itself because you're overstimulating it.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: And what that means is that now you're gonna need more of that substance just for you to feel quote unquote normal.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: So it changes your actual physiology to um create what we say in layman's terms is an addiction.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's where the difference is.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't happen when we're talking, uh, you know, like a face-to-face or even over the Zoom call.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't happen when we're just talking like this.
17:26
SPEAKER_02: Because you have these natural, uh, you have these natural responses that if you talk too much, I'm tired of talking to you and I I go away.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: You know, it it there, there's there's natural uh whatever, you know, uh boundaries in that in that personal conversation.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's natural boundaries, and you don't get the same type of, I would say, an too much of a dopamine hit, like a too much of a flood.
17:56
SPEAKER_00: So social media can often use like intermittent intermittent reinforcement.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: And that's the same type of psychological trick that's used in slot machines.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: So you don't actually know if the next scroll is gonna provide the quote unquote reward.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: Um you just so you just keep scrolling until you get that next dopamine hit, you know.
18:19
SPEAKER_02: You know, I wonder, I wonder if any um if any um slot machine, you know, gambling company has ever been sued for you know for a gambling addiction, you know, for somebody who I don't know.
18:33
SPEAKER_02: I just wonder.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: Let's see.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: I'm well, let's look it up.
18:38
SPEAKER_02: Here it goes, here goes our researcher, fast at it in real time.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yes, so it is it is different, and also even just swiping, so this is another thing.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, if you if you're looking left and right, think of like how we read a book, right?
18:59
SPEAKER_00: Where eyes are going like left to right.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: And on this is how, like, if you're if you're out in the wild back in the day and you're looking for a predator, right?
19:08
SPEAKER_00: And you're just looking left and right, you're looking around you.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: If scientifically it's thought that that doesn't uh trigger you into a fight or flight response, that's just a natural, that's what you're doing.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: If you scroll, you're going up and down.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: Like, think of on the phone, you're scrolling up and down.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: Some scientists are saying that when you do that up and down motion, that itself triggers you into fight or flight.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: So now you're already in this state where you're hyper-vigilant, you know, you're looking out for trouble.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: And we're actually designed to look for trouble.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: We're designed to look for that tiger coming around the corner, right?
19:44
SPEAKER_00: To protect us.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: And so now it's putting you into that natural predatory prey state of fight or flight.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you're getting these dopamine hits as well.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: And that's actually a recipe for disaster.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: This is how they they they hook you, you know.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, so okay.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: To answer your question, there's a sports betting wave that actually, as it said, as of February, over 80 lawsuits have been filed against major platforms, FanDuel and DraftKings.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh, alleging that oh wow, alleging that these companies use data algorithms to identify vulnerable addicts.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: So they're like targeting them.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh then there's another one.
20:34
SPEAKER_02: Um So the so the answer is yes, there there have been some suits against um against gambling platforms that um that that allegedly are well I don't hear anything about addiction there, but it sounds like that maybe there have been some suits against them actually using personal data to target vulnerable, you know, vulnerable players.
21:01
SPEAKER_02: You know, in other words, you you you you use um I mean the amount of data out there on people is just on each of us is crazy uh the amount of data that's on each of us.
21:14
SPEAKER_02: And um and so when you when you have that much data, I mean you could actually use AI to plow through who knows how many thousands of names to get a a vulnerable um to target people who's purchasing YouTube, social media um uh thumbprints make them uh make them have a high propensity to you know to uh to g get into gambling.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: And so a company can you know target one of these one of these things.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: Let's let's leave I I know you want to get to a another one that's that's a related one and that is these parents taking the laptops out of their out of their kids at um at school opting out of laptops i mean it yeah it it's related because it's all this this this we we talk about toxicity and plastics we talk about toxicity and glyphosate and we are we are heading into a mental uh a meant a br a mental and emotional toxicity oh absolutely and you know piggybacking on that before I get into that story did you happen to see the Maha Super Bowl ad with Mike Tyson Yes I I didn't see it on TV I saw it from there you know they advertised it yeah it's so it he mentioned self-hate in that video that that's what drove him to obesity was actually self-hate and he stuffed it down with food and so that's one thing that that is fueling these teens and twins who are on social media is this self-hate and so it's it's really a sad situation because they're they're getting on social media and they are developing self-hate but they're addicted to it and they're trying to use social media to kind of come out of it as well right like that's their new space um but it's perpetuating more self-hate so it it is it was it was hopeful I thought to see Mike Tyson come out and be open and honest about how much he hated himself uh because a lot of you know that's a hard thing to admit yeah um especially for somebody in his position so um and he talks about ultra processed food um is our narc is he called it a narcotic um I saw the interview with him and he calls it a narcotic and that it's a big business and he said we have to put them out of business.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: Um but interesting that you know the Super Bowl ads are arguably one of the largest platforms in America right for advertisement.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: So this is a national public service announcement right targeting ultra processed foods and how they tie into self-hate so I mean that's that was huge never seen before in our country.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: I agree I agree it was it was uh really uh profound to have it on yes so picking back that to this other story that I think is positive um and this was actually on NBC News this is the power of the individual the power of the parent parents are opting kids out of school laptops and other devices to return them to pen and paper.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: So this started as anger toward social media companies and it's translated to parents putting pressures on the school the parents are now forming these loose networks where they're teaching one another how to get their kids off these school issued Chromebooks and iPads.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: And um in some of these cases the kids themselves are asking their parents if they can opt out.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: They're citing things like headaches, uh not liking these AI chat box that have been recently integrated into some of them, you know, all kinds of issues that they're having from being on these devices not only while at school but then often you have to take it home and do your homework on it, right?
25:41
SPEAKER_00: The parents are noticing that once their kids were issued these devices they became more distracted shorter attention spans they're accessing inappropriate content in some cases on these devices.
25:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah it's all it's all at your fingertips.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: And so there was one mom um which this article is about Julie Fruman and she successfully opted out her 11 year old um and her third grader so that child must be eight or nine could you imagine being eight years old and you're you know you're on these devices this is now your learning like we are out in the dirt and on the playground and kicking the ball you know that's right that's right but computers are now computers and these devices who screens are now ubiquitous starting in kindergarten K through 12 uh nine out of 10 public schools provide devices in middle school and high school and over four out of five elementary schools provide devices to every single student.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: COVID accelerated this trend right because federal stimulus dollars came in some schools use it to buy technology for remote use and then when kids returned to the classroom it just became this new digital world they brought those devices back into the classroom um even state tests are online but this mom Julie she successfully opted her kids out and this is what I thought was really cool.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: First the district administrators said that legally under state law she could only opt her kids out of the standardized testing and sexual health lessons but then she went and talked to the teacher and the teacher agreed with her and so the school relented they backed down because her and the teacher partnered.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: I mean right like the power of kudos kudos kudos to that teacher because most of the times in a situation like that you know it's the company line uh the the the teacher's never gonna buck the principal or the you know the school the the powers that be and so um yeah as as much as the mom is the hero here that teacher uh is a real hero that's right and so now this teacher prints out the kids' assignments and so they do them on paper and then during free time while other kids in the classroom are playing games on their electronic devices these kids are reading books and the kids said they're happier like they're more joyful they feel calmer the kids not having headaches anymore um so this mom has created a toolkit to help other people other parents opt out of the system you can download all this information her quote is that she wants her kids to be taught through humans she's I want the teachers to actually teach my kids like not the devices that you know the teachers are now just relying on these uh devices in large part um so so in some cases parents that have tried to opt their kids out they have not succeeded and now they're going to at least asking that the kids can keep these devices at the school and they are likening these laptops to cigarettes you know and so it's the same thing it's the addiction you know what I found this was a little side note that I thought was interesting.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: You may have known this I did not know did you know that some high schools in the 1960s and into the 1980s they actually had designated sometimes school sanctioned areas for students to smoke oh it was when when I was in high school they had the smoking area so students could go out and smoke oh yeah that was all through that was all through uh through my high school days oh my goodness no we had nothing like that uh I don't know maybe it's because they're in California but I I wasn't born until the 70s but you know but I was shocked to hear that that they had smoking lounges and like outdoor designated areas.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm like oh my goodness absolutely so this is just the new cigarette in the schools now.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: So this mom even took it a step further.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, she piggybacked off my plate uh and said that that my plate is was used to create like balanced and healthy meals.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: Okay so we got to reach out and educate her on that but the premise is she's like you know the government puts this plate forward and all this money towards this to tell us how to create healthy and balanced meals.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: So she developed a concept for creating healthy and balanced teenagers using this new plate and it focuses on sleep learning exercise and socializing in real life with limited screen time and making that optional.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: So the screen time component isn't even on the plate.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: She said it's off to the side of the plate as an optional optional component but as as a mom who's lived through it we should be focusing on sleep learning exercise and real life interactions.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: And I agree with that.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: I have noticed a huge shift in my kids when sometimes you know you go through ebbs and flows as a parent and sometimes we're on the electronics more and our behavior is worse.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: We're snappier towards each other it's harder to get them off and outside and on the days when we don't even like we're outside all day long it's the best we're calm the nervous system's calm we're nicer to each other I mean this you don't need all these studies you we have the studies but you don't actually need all these studies yeah to guide you you know you don't you don't need to wait until oh what's this lawsuit going to come out with or what's that government study going to conclude you know what's what works for your family.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: It's pretty it's pretty obvious if you're and if you're tuned into your kids whatever uh behavior trajectory it's pretty it's pretty easy to notice yeah it it absolutely is so my my heart does go out to you know to all these parents that have lost their children I mean that's like one of the worst things you could ever imagine right happening.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: And I have a teen and I can tell you as a homeschool teen mom it's it's an even lonelier territory because a lot of teens go back into into public school uh at that point.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: And so it is hard to find those communities um and a lot of teens turn to online just so that they have some kind of social network.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a real big problem.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: I do think ultimately um it comes down to parent responsibility just like with ultra processed foods I mean acknowledging that these are addicting but you are the parent.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: And so um I think and I'm saying that with complete compassion for everybody and as a mom who's going through this herself.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: But you know I think it's we have to be aware of what our kids are doing and put the parental block if you're gonna let them on the electronics there's lots of programs you can use now to block websites to clock time there's programs you can use to shut the electronics off.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: You can give them a one of those bark phones like the flip phone and instead of the you know iPhone there's there's several different options we can use but I think being aware that this is happening might help parents to take more initiative I know it it has um motivated me to be more involved with my my children's online time um and to provide more solutions and more support and to have more conversations with them.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: You know, talk about it I do this with the food we talk about how addictive um these ultraprocessed foods are um particularly sugar and so that my kids are aware so that they're educated.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's a big missing piece is before you give them a device, educate them.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: Let them know that they're actually manipulating you right like that's their whole job is to manipulate you so that you stay on that device.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: It's the same thing with the food.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: You know Hunter and I, my older my 16 year old we're now not eating any sugar it was the challenge that he came to me with and he's noticed that he feels so much better.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: Like he's calmer he doesn't have this afternoon slump and like I'm saying he's eating like not fruit but not that much fruit but no other sugars and it's made a huge difference for him that he's the one that said I want to do this.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: And it's because for years I've talked to him about the food supply and about what it's doing to you and how to be more balanced in your body mind and spirit through food.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: Apply that same curriculum if you will to social media and now we have we could have a an army of teen warriors right that they're armed instead of just send handing them the device like as a babysitter tool or whatever the reason is an educational tool and expecting them to fend for themselves.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: You know you wouldn't do that you wouldn't just drop them off uh in the middle of town by themselves and say here find your way back home you know so I think part of that is us too is not understanding as parents how the system works the online system works and what we can do to help them to navigate that system.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: That's great.
35:19
SPEAKER_02: Kudos to her kudos to the teacher and uh yeah you know me I'm I'm still on the old flip phone and uh for me I there's just something about not being able to having having just a little distance have to access it.
35:41
SPEAKER_02: So you know when I travel I I take my s my flip phone it's got a hot spot on it.
35:46
SPEAKER_02: If I want to get on emails or whatever you know I have to about five clicks it only takes about ten seconds click click click click click I'm on my hotspot turn on my laptop but that's not just accessible at a moment's notice.
36:00
SPEAKER_02: You know you've got to you've got to sit down you've got to think about it you got to you know what are we gonna do here and um and it it just creates enough distance I think that that's the that's the problem with this stuff there's there's no distance I mean it's just it's right there on your it's like grabbing your you know grabbing your wallet it's it's it's that simple and um that's a problem.
36:24
SPEAKER_02: Well good well uh thanks for thanks for that one Cena um what else is on your you had something about Rand Paul putting in a bill to elimin boy wouldn't that be something to eliminate the liability shield for vaccines but uh I think you said that probably doesn't have a very good chance.
36:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah I mean speaking of bringing lawsuits right so Rand Paul has introduced a bill to end liability shields for vaccine manufacturers.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: This was February 11th um it's a Senate bill of course and it was referred to the Senate Health Education Uh Labor and Pensions Committee which the acronym is HELP ironically um so it's it's a companion to a U.S.
37:11
SPEAKER_00: House bill um HR 4668 which was introduced February of last year that was referred to committee it has 29 co-sponsors they're all Republicans so the so it's sitting stationary and and that's the problem it needs to have um these bills need bipartisan support uh what he's trying to do so he so he did he did get some republicans to go with him on it well that's uh that's the house bill the house bill got uh 29 co-sponsors that are all Republicans this Senate bill um senator Mike Lee Republican from Utah is a co-sponsor okay so but now we're waiting I mean they're waiting for more co-sponsors um Mike Lee said Americans have a constitutional right to a trial by jury by current uh but current laws allow big pharma players to dodge accountability and bar victims from pursuing their cases um Paul said uh Rand Paul said that people harmed by drugs can sue in court but when it comes to vaccines the rules are rigged you're funneled into a federal no fault program that limits damages restricts your options and in many cases leaves people without real justice so they're fighting for just your right to be able to sue if you get injured um this would end the vaccine carve out uh that was you know that was backed um when was that uh under Reagan, right?
38:40
SPEAKER_02: There was this vaccine Yeah and um Senator Ted Kennedy Yeah I I think it's interesting that RFK Jr's uh uncle and uh and and a conservative Ronald Reagan I mean supposedly a conservative uh would create would create the um what the springboard that vaulted the whole vaccine you know jumped it from whatever you know six or seven vaccines to sixty seven vaccines um in in the last few years that that that that um you know we we can live without that kind of bi bipartisanship um you know isn't it funny how how these kinds of things make strange uh well not strange strange bedfellows but s just strange alliances through I mean you would think you would think that the Democrats who've always been quick to try to protect the consumer protect the consumer you'd think they'd be all over this uh yeah we're gonna protect people from these big bad vaccine companies but the Democrats just they're they're silent on this yeah I don't know Senator Ron Johnson from Wisconsin is saying that he's he's supporting this that we should end immunity um you know from these for these vaccines and interestingly an attorney came out on Ray Flores and he's praising the bills for raising awareness of vaccine injustice is what he says.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: And he's noting that Robert Kennedy Jr he says he could remove the liability shield for the COVID vaccines with just the stroke of a pen by removing the COVID vaccine 19s from the PrEP act list of covered countermeasures.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: But um he's saying that bold support appears necessary to empower him to do what he already has the power to do.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know this might be another thing that you know our guest Lisa Stokes uh was talking about where there's only so much one person can do uh you know because of blackmail and pressure put upon him so there's got to be some reason that he's not doing that with just a stroke of a pen if if that is in fact true.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: But again these seem like they're not gonna really go anywhere you know to me right because he he definitely needs bipartisan support um you know and I I don't know to me I'm looking at these things and it's like well it's just is this another part of the circus?
41:30
SPEAKER_00: Is this a part of the show that we're all you know yeah and we're the we're the monkeys yeah uh you're right you're right it it does just it's more it's more um just entertainment a lot of times it seems like but bless his heart for for trying I mean I'm I'm and and you know I wonder how many people actually know that the vaccine companies have liability shields I I expect a lot of people don't even know that that the that that a they they they would never imagine that vaccines could hurt anybody and B they don't even know that uh there's a immunity shield or I mean a liability shield sorry liability shield yeah so in that sense it does it does help raise awareness um but again I don't think much is going to be done about that and it it it does also bring up that interesting perspective of how much can they really get done and what are they saying over here to us while they're doing something else over here which brings me to another story the EPA just reapproved die camba which uh this was on February 6th and Dicamba is a drift prone pesticide it's gent it's sprayed on genetically engineered cotton and soybeans for example and this was a really interesting one because it was first approved in 2016 and since then drift from dicamba has damaged millions of acres of farmland it's devastated orchards vegetable farms home gardens native plants trees wildlife refugees across the country uh some experts have declared the Dicamba drift uh the damage from the drift is the worst of any herbicide in the history of U.S.
43:31
SPEAKER_00: agriculture it's now been reapproved by the EPA despite federal court decisions in 2020 and again in 2024 striking down the agency's previous approvals of this weed killer as unlawful.
43:47
SPEAKER_00: So uh I don't know if most people are aware of that but in 2020 a federal court actually revoked the EPA's DICAMBA registration.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: The court noticed uh noted that approving DICAMBA the agency Failed to examine how Dicamba would tear the social fabric of farming communities.
44:05
SPEAKER_00: And that's a quote from them.
44:07
SPEAKER_00: But four months after that, the EPA reapproved the pesticide.
44:11
SPEAKER_00: They claimed that new measures would cut down on the damage.
44:14
SPEAKER_00: But then, less than a year later, the EPA report report came out finding that restrictions to limit the drift had failed, and the pesticide was continuing to cause massive drift damage to crops and natural areas.
44:30
SPEAKER_00: So then, fast forward to 2024, the federal court banned the spraying of dicamba on bears dikamba resistant crops a second time and outlined the EPA's failure to consult the victims of dicamba drift or other stakeholders before reapproving.
44:48
SPEAKER_00: And then now in 2026, just this month, they reapproved it.
44:58
SPEAKER_00: They closely mirror the wish list that were included in the comments to the agency from the American Soybean Association.
45:09
SPEAKER_00: The new standards allow year-round use, eliminates the proposed cutoff date of June 12th for DICAMBA application to soil.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: And part of this is because they don't want it applied during the hot months.
45:38
SPEAKER_00: So there's an article that came out that was wondering why.
45:43
SPEAKER_00: Why is this actually happening?
45:45
SPEAKER_00: And they are proposing a revolving door.
45:49
SPEAKER_00: So this approval, this new approval by the EPA, came just months after Kyle Cunkler was installed as the deputy assistant administrator for pesticides in the EPA's Office of Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: Boy, that's a that's a job title.
46:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, wouldn't you like to have that that title on your business card?
46:11
SPEAKER_00: It'd take up the whole card.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
46:12
SPEAKER_02: You sure would.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so Kyle Cunkler, so again, deputy assistant administrator for pesticides in the EPA.
46:21
SPEAKER_00: He's a former lobbyist for the American Soybean Association.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: He has been a vocal cheerleader for Dicamba, and he has not been recused from working on Dicamba at the EPA, despite having lobbied for it during his previous employment.
46:39
SPEAKER_00: Kunkler himself works under two former lobbyists from the American Chemical Chemistry Council.
46:55
SPEAKER_00: And they are now overseen by a fourth industry lobbyist who was recently confirmed to lead the chemicals office following endorsement by the chemical council.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: So it's not only Kyle Kunkler, it's his higher up, and then higher up from that.
47:10
SPEAKER_00: So people are saying, so here's a quote from someone from the uh the science directors at the Center for Food Safety the Trump administration's hostility to farmers in rural America knows no bounds.
47:23
SPEAKER_00: So to me, I'm like, okay, this is one more reason why uh you can't trust the government to solve the problem.
47:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they put an industry insider in there, and now they've just reapproved against the federal court's decisions twice.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: They just reapproved one of the most damaging pesticides we know of.
47:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
47:44
SPEAKER_02: And this, you know, if there are a lot of things that really break my heart, but one one of them is people who live next door because I I get I get you know emails from people that have a garden, for example, and they're next to they live out somewhere and they're next to somebody that sprays a cornfield, and here comes drift over and wipes out their garden, wipes out their apple trees, um and you know, their kids get a rash because they've gotten exposed to this stuff.
48:23
SPEAKER_02: And you know, uh they didn't they didn't know that the that the machine was coming or the airplane was going over.
48:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean this drift thing they're I mean if uh i if if if Trump wants to help anybody, you know, he should make it far easier for somebody that suffers drift damage to be able to, you know, get relief.
48:55
SPEAKER_02: Because you shouldn't you shouldn't be able to trespass like that on somebody else's.
48:59
SPEAKER_02: I mean, if your if your bull comes over and stomps my you know my rose bushes, I can usually get some compensation from the guy with the bull.
49:08
SPEAKER_02: But with this drift thing, um, for all their you know, platitudes and things, when somebody tries to hold them accountable, there's every kind of well, you know, prove that that was that.
49:22
SPEAKER_02: And then you've got to, you know, get a test and you've got to prove residual and all this stuff, and so they just they just wear you down with every kind of uh you know, proof requirement.
49:35
SPEAKER_02: And the result is that generally drift that so drift is where somebody sprays and the wind blows it onto a neighbor, and the neighbor suffers damage due to the drift.
49:50
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, what these these uh these court these court cases, what happens is when the EPA says, we we tightened it up.
49:58
SPEAKER_02: And what they're saying is that it can't be sprayed if the wind is more than 10 miles an hour, and you know, after two o'clock in the afternoon, they they they put you know stipulations on it, but but it's it's never enough.
50:11
SPEAKER_02: It's just because if they actually put it on to stop the drift, the people who use it would say, Well, that's so difficult to comply, we can't even use it.
50:20
SPEAKER_02: So you you've got this, you know, you've got this um this tug of war going on between the manufacturer and the farmers that want to use it that that that view these uh stipulations as being you know backdoor prohibitions.
50:38
SPEAKER_02: And meanwhile, the neighbors that are suffering the harm from the drift, you know, um don't even get a voice at the table.
50:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's really concerning too because there's a lot of data talking about the damage from the drift, not only to the crops and such, but to humans and other animals.
50:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's been linked to cancer, neurological damage.
51:02
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
51:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's not just exposure through your skin, but inhaling the spray drift or then ingesting it from the food.
51:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah you know, so it's a real big issue.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: And it it was a disappointment to see that that this administration who you know claims to back Maha principles, right?
51:28
SPEAKER_02: You know, you know, it rem it reminds me, Cena, of one time I was uh we working with uh um one of our delegates here in Virginia on something, and um he he voted he voted the way I wanted him to initially.
51:46
SPEAKER_02: And then when it came to the final vote, he voted against it.
51:51
SPEAKER_02: When I asked him why, he said, Well, I knew it was gonna pass, so by voting against it, I could make both sides happy.
52:01
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he just he just said it just out like that.
52:04
SPEAKER_02: It's a game.
52:05
SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, what's the where where's the where's the character?
52:08
SPEAKER_02: Where's the conviction?
52:08
SPEAKER_02: Where's where's any kind of moral compass in a thing like that?
52:12
SPEAKER_02: Um he said, I voted with you to get it to get it up to the vote, and then when I saw you were gonna win, then I voted against it so I could make the people that were against it happy.
52:24
SPEAKER_00: So who's happy with this one?
52:27
SPEAKER_02: Oh, who's happy with this one?
52:29
SPEAKER_02: Well, the the chemic the chemical companies and the chemical farmers, and yeah, yeah, the the big big ag uh they're happy with it.
52:38
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so this one doesn't make both sides happy, like right?
52:42
SPEAKER_00: This one, unlike that strategy from uh that bureaucrat you're just talking about, or you know, the or the elected official, this one makes Bayer happy because they're a primary manufacturer of dicamba.
52:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
52:56
SPEAKER_00: So he's once again pleasing them, just like the executive order for glyphosate.
53:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
53:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
53:03
SPEAKER_02: Oh, he's pleasing, he's pleasing big ag here.
53:05
SPEAKER_02: There's no there's no doubt, there's no question about that.
53:08
SPEAKER_00: So you're not surprised to hear that the EPA renewed it?
53:11
SPEAKER_00: Renewed the bigger.
53:12
SPEAKER_00: No, not at all.
53:13
SPEAKER_00: Not at all.
53:14
SPEAKER_02: I I would certainly no, I would certainly expect that.
53:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
53:17
SPEAKER_02: I mean, EPA is owned by Big Ag and Big Industri.
53:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
53:24
SPEAKER_02: Even though it was allegedly started to be a you know, to be a watchdog on them.
53:32
SPEAKER_02: It's just like food safety inspection service that was started to ride herd on big food processors and they ended up going to bed together.
53:43
SPEAKER_02: That's what actually happened.
53:44
SPEAKER_02: That's the same thing that's happening in the EPA.
53:46
SPEAKER_02: Started to be a watchdog on, you know, on polluting businesses, and now it's the biggest um, it's the it's the biggest uh whatever facilitator or or um approver of pollution.
54:09
SPEAKER_02: So there you go.
54:10
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
54:11
SPEAKER_02: Somewhere along the line, people have to wake up and realize if you're asking for you know for uh government solutions, you're gonna ask for a long time.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, let me throw out a somewhat positive story then, because so far this has been very depressing.
54:30
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, okay.
54:32
SPEAKER_00: So it piggybacks on what you're saying, don't ask the government for solution.
54:37
SPEAKER_00: But this is kind of a cool story about what happened that got sparked from a government solution.
54:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
54:44
SPEAKER_00: So do you remember um the Texas uh bill that got signed into law, the Make Texas Healthy Again Act?
54:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, this was signed in the law June 2025.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: And this is the one where they targeted 44 specific ingredients like red yellow, I mean sorry, red 40, yellow five, titanium dioxide.
55:05
SPEAKER_00: So 44 different ingredients that are restricted in other countries.
55:11
SPEAKER_00: And if any of the products contain any of those 44 ingredients, what Texas said was the company has to slap a huge warning label on it, and the label would say this warning.
55:26
SPEAKER_00: This product contains an ingredient that's not recommended for human consumption by authorities in the EU, UK, you know, so forth, so forth.
55:34
SPEAKER_00: So huge warning label gets slapped on there, right?
55:38
SPEAKER_00: So um what happened is there's so there's been a lawsuit.
55:46
SPEAKER_00: This was just this just happened in February, that the federal court issued a preliminary injunction to stop that law from being enforced in Texas.
55:56
SPEAKER_00: And they want it stopped while their lawsuits move forward.
56:00
SPEAKER_00: They're claiming a First Amendment um rights viol violation.
56:05
SPEAKER_00: So the law isn't dead, but it's kind of on like on forced hiatus.
56:10
SPEAKER_00: So this is gonna protect companies um right now who don't want to go through this redesign and repackaging.
56:19
SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing there's been um uh a Texas effect, is what's happening.
56:26
SPEAKER_00: So even though the law is pushed, is like on pause, it doesn't matter.
56:33
SPEAKER_00: Texas is such a big market that this law, along with Kennedy applying pressure at the federal level for companies to start moving away from petroleum-based dyes by the end of this year, it's triggering a national shift.
56:49
SPEAKER_00: So what's happening is like the snack aisles in the grocery store are undergoing a massive like decoloring phase, right?
56:58
SPEAKER_00: So we have we have big brand names like Fritole, who makes Cheetos and Doritos, and Mars, who makes Skittles.
57:06
SPEAKER_00: They're already launching these die-free versions because the Texas market is too big.
57:13
SPEAKER_00: They don't want to have to make products for Texas, potentially with this label if they lose the lawsuit and make other products for the rest of the country.
57:21
SPEAKER_00: So Texas is moving the market for the entire country.
57:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's not just Fritos.
57:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, so there's something called Takis, T-A-K-I-S, which I never heard of before researching this, but apparently, this is like a big snack food that people are consuming, heavily marketed to teenagers.
57:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, they said that they are gonna go, they're going color-free um by this year.
57:49
SPEAKER_00: They're rolled out, they've rolled out six new flavors, and they've committed by the end of this year to remove artificial colors across their entire portfolio.
57:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, so another one is uh Mars.
58:06
SPEAKER_00: Um they uh they have launched choice versions of Skittles, um Skittles Original, MM's Chocolate, and Starburst that are made without the dye colors.
58:17
SPEAKER_02: Are all are all of these 44 and Cena are all these 44 ingredients are they all colored, are they all dyes?
58:26
SPEAKER_00: No, those are only some of the ingredients.
58:28
SPEAKER_00: So um, so they're these these companies are starting with some of these ingredients, but one of them that's on the list is um titanium dioxide.
58:38
SPEAKER_00: And Mars is saying that they've already removed titanium dioxide, which is a whitener, that they remove that from Skittles in the U.S.
58:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, and could you know they're trying to avoid this warning label.
58:51
SPEAKER_00: Um so it is starting to have some movement uh b because of what the state has done, even though that law, you know, may get squashed.
59:05
SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of a positive thing.
59:07
SPEAKER_02: Um it's actually very similar to um you know to the the farrowing crate law in California that outlawed pork from from pigs that were born in farrowing crates.
59:24
SPEAKER_02: And the industry had a fit over it and um and it's still it's still being wrangled about, but you know, saying, well, the state can't do this because of um interstate commerce and you've got to be able to, you know, move across state lines.
59:39
SPEAKER_02: And so um yeah, these this this um this these state initiatives are are really uh are really powerful uh cultural um cultural energy, you know, in a in a direction.
1:00:01
SPEAKER_02: And um yeah, it's great to see great to see somebody you know moving forward with this.
1:00:09
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I think it's bringing awareness and it's also helping this whole time period right now that we're in with Maha and Trump and whatnot, uh-huh, it's really helping, I think, states to reclaim their states' rights.
1:00:27
SPEAKER_00: Yes, right, to start actually pushing back and for voters to then hopefully be able to vote with their feet, you know.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_00: So it's like I think in a way it's a rebirth of the great experiment of the United States.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_00: So that's that's a huge positive.
1:00:43
SPEAKER_00: So even if this law gets crushed, I'm you know, I'm glad that Texas stood up, brought awareness, and they're causing change on the market.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I will say that there's a there's a second label that might actually be coming to the United States.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_00: Have you heard of this one?
1:00:59
SPEAKER_00: It's the magnifying glass label.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_02: No, it's okay.
1:01:05
SPEAKER_00: So this is actually a front-of-package nutrient symbol.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, Canada's already rolled this out.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_00: They adopted this magnifying glass as of January of this year.
1:01:16
SPEAKER_00: It's mandatory for most pre-packaged foods that exceed threshold certain thresholds of certain ingredients.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_00: So, so what happened was you know, we have that nutrition facts panel on the back of the food product.
1:01:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:01:28
SPEAKER_00: It's that bold black box.
1:01:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's iconic now.
1:01:31
SPEAKER_00: So that alerts you to if a product is high in certain nutrients like sugar, saturated fat, or sodium.
1:01:39
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_00: And now what's happened is there's been this acknowledgement that that nutrition facts panel has failed.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_00: Apparently it's not working, is what they're saying.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_00: So instead of having on the back of the package, they want to put it on the front of the package and simplify it so that you don't have to actually do the analysis of the numbers, like look at the grams, look at the percentage of daily value of you know, saturated fat, sugar, and sodium.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_00: Apparently that's too difficult.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_00: And so they want to put it on the front, and there's this magnifying glass, and it will say next to it, like high in sugar or high in saturated fat to make it even easier for you on the front of the package.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_00: It's already happened in Canada and the United States.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, the FDA is currently finalizing its own version of a front of package label.
1:02:31
SPEAKER_00: The thought is it might look similar to that current to um Canada's magnifying glass.
1:02:39
SPEAKER_00: And um the it should it should be finalized this year.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_00: Like Kennedy has said, 2026 is the year to finalize that.
1:02:49
SPEAKER_00: And the goal is glance, grab, and go.
1:02:52
SPEAKER_00: So it's a system that stops people from needing to read the back of the label and help them figure out if this ultra-processed food is healthier or not.
1:03:03
SPEAKER_00: So glance, grab, and go.
1:03:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_00: Like, is that is that actually gonna work?
1:03:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know if they're even gonna see it.
1:03:15
SPEAKER_00: There's so much on the packages now.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_02: Well, you and I know that if if your level of if your level of food and nutrition understanding is no higher than glance, grab, and go, you probably are in a place to be manipulated by others.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because one of my first thoughts was, okay, so now we're back to that nutrition label, like that food facts label that we know that already.
1:03:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, this whole um, you know, calorie, fat, protein.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's we've discussed that till we're blue in the face here, that that is a very um um non-comprehensive view of nutrition.
1:04:14
SPEAKER_00: What they should put on it, like especially to make to really make it what I think of as maha, and to make it aligned with what Kennedy has historically fought against and campaigned on doing, I would think the front-of-the-box label would tell you the amount of like glyphosate, or if heavy metals have been found there, or if it was processed with chemical solvents, or if it was grown in sewage sludge, for example.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_00: Like those are the toxins that are also really making us sick.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_00: Like, put something on the front of the package that actually will move the needle and helping people get healthier.
1:04:56
SPEAKER_00: Because could you imagine, Joel, if there is a if there was a warning label on the front that said something like um crops used to make this food were grown in sewage sludge that could take could contain heavy metals, pharmaceutical residues, and pesticide residues.
1:05:16
SPEAKER_02: That's why we'll know that's why they'll never put that on.
1:05:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh I mean that would be that would be impactful.
1:05:21
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, it would be impactful.
1:05:23
SPEAKER_02: It'd be just as impactful as just putting on a big thing on you shouldn't buy this.
1:05:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:05:30
SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
1:05:30
SPEAKER_00: Texas tried to try to do.
1:05:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, this is not um, what did they say?
1:05:35
SPEAKER_00: Like it's not for human consumption.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_02: Not for human consumption.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh love it.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_02: Love it.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_02: Well, um I mean these are all efforts, you know, beating around.
1:05:48
SPEAKER_02: I th I think they're all indicative of the fact that people are struggling with there's something wrong.
1:05:56
SPEAKER_02: What can we do about what's wrong?
1:05:59
SPEAKER_02: And uh And so, you know, you can you can say, well, it's all uh ineffectual, but you can also say, well, we got here incrementally, we'll get out incrementally, and let's be happy for every incremental um awareness moment that we ought to do something a little bit different.
1:06:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would agree.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_00: I would add a caveat.
1:06:27
SPEAKER_00: So in the whole question of what can we do about what's wrong, now that we've seen some of these latest happenings, like the EPA reapproving DICAMBA, we've seen the glyphosate executive order and so forth.
1:06:43
SPEAKER_00: I would say it's what can we do about what's wrong without upsetting big egg and big food and big pharma too much, right?
1:06:54
SPEAKER_00: They're having to still toe a line, as it seems.
1:06:56
SPEAKER_00: Of course, this is speculation, but based on these decisions, it seems like they're still trying to um they can't just go out there and be bold with the agenda that was proposed.
1:07:08
SPEAKER_00: We're seeing what's happening.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, it's almost like we're not we're not behind the scenes to see it, but the decisions that they're making are very telling about what's going on behind the scenes.
1:07:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they're making compromises, they're making deals, they're trying not to rock the boat too much, you know.
1:07:27
SPEAKER_00: Just like we said, they're not going to move away from commodity crops.
1:07:30
SPEAKER_00: So I think the best we can hope for at this point is the awareness factor that you mentioned and keep waking people up to this is not the solution.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, the solution is to empower yourself.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_00: And I and I think that that's where we come in.
1:07:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's where we can help people bring awareness, know that you're not alone, and that there are ways that you can empower yourself.
1:07:53
SPEAKER_00: And you know what I was thinking?
1:07:55
SPEAKER_00: This might be something to ask the listeners.
1:07:58
SPEAKER_00: I was trying to think when all of this was has just come down the turnpike, especially the uh executive order practically giving glyphosate immunity.
1:08:10
SPEAKER_00: What can you and I do to really help people feel empowered and make informed decisions in their own lives?
1:08:17
SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering if people would be interested, you know, you we have some homesteading videos coming up with you to navigate, help, help, help teach us how to do that in our own backyards.
1:08:28
SPEAKER_00: But would they be interested in us taking just common labels that are in the grocery store and peeling that back to show them what's behind that label?
1:08:39
SPEAKER_00: Like even things we didn't talk about in our book, for example, um, to help them really navigate and and then not only show them what's in a label, but give them a better choice.
1:08:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, like another choice.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_02: I think if they're interested.
1:08:54
SPEAKER_02: I think that would be uh that would be interesting to see.
1:08:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, as long as you don't have to buy the food to get the label.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, yeah, I know.
1:09:02
SPEAKER_00: I stopped doing that.
1:09:03
SPEAKER_00: Now I'll just go to the grocery store and take pictures.
1:09:05
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah.
1:09:07
SPEAKER_00: I don't want any more dollars going toward them.
1:09:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:09:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_02: Well, good.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_02: Well, um, interesting, lots of different topics on this one.
1:09:16
SPEAKER_02: Uh, we're out of time, and so let's um let's ask our community question.
1:09:20
SPEAKER_02: Mine, uh, I'm going back to the top of the program, and I would ask, uh, what have you done to protect your kids from social media?
1:09:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, that's a little bit of a of a of a challenge, but uh, what have you done to protect your kids from social media?
1:09:37
SPEAKER_02: That can be everything from my kids don't have social media until they're 15 to um, you know, obviously to nothing.
1:09:48
SPEAKER_02: But um I just think it'd be interesting to to hear people's perspective of what of what they've done, you know, personally to take that kind of responsibility.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
1:09:58
SPEAKER_00: And maybe we can add that if they don't have children currently, have they done anything to protect themselves from social media?
1:10:05
SPEAKER_00: Right?
1:10:06
SPEAKER_00: Because it's not just a teen problem.
1:10:09
SPEAKER_02: Here's a good medal.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_02: What would you do if you had kids?
1:10:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:10:16
SPEAKER_02: That that that would open up the floodgates.
1:10:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:10:20
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:10:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:10:20
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:10:21
SPEAKER_02: Hey, everybody, thank you for being with us on another episode of Beyond Labels.
1:10:25
SPEAKER_02: We do appreciate your your uh staying with us, and we hope these have been not only informative, but maybe a little bit of entertaining as we uh as we wrestle with all the different uh food and farming issues of our day.
1:10:37
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for being with us, and we'll look forward to visiting with you again next week.