Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Principles of Overlanding: Tires and Wheels

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Principles of Overlanding: Tires and Wheels · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overline Journal podcast. I am
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: your host, Scott Brady, and I am here with my
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: co host with his very koift do and I'm also.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know what that word means. You're well coifed.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: I am not wellcoifed.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Matt.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Scott, Hi, I'm here today. We're talking about what size
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: tire and lyft. Actually we're not talking about that. Do
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: not message us asking what sized tire and left we have.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: We will send you inappropriate pictures of my dog. Not inappropriate,
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: just just very appropriate lots of pictures of your just
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: pictures of my dog.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. This episode is supported by Life Saver Jerry Cans.
• 0:43
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• 1:54
  Speaker 2: So, I think one of the most contentious arguments I
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: think people get into in the overl in space and
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: the four wheel drive space is tire size tire with
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: tire preference all terrain, mud terrain. We have these kind
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: of new hybrid I call them hybrid all terrain tires.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: That's right. You know what size wheels. There's a lot
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: of type of wheels. What type of wheels.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's a lot going on I guess with
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: this subject, you know it. Admittedly, Scott is better at
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: the absolute technical details. I mean, if you want somebody
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: that's like a scientist of like the mechanics of all
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: the stuff, Scott's definitely gonna be the best person for that.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: So I guess I'm just here for the ryde and
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: to introject opinions.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: But you've also you've also had so many sets of
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: tires because you've had so many vehicles, that naturally means
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: that naturally means that you're gonna Yeah, so today's topic
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: is going to be the principles of overlanding tires and wheel.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Basically, we're just going to tell you to go with
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: one size tire less than you think you want, and yeah,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: well that's the podcast for today.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Have fun. Well, yeah, maybe we get started with some
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: of the more broad, kind of sweeping topics. And I
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: think that one of the things that's most important that
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: we always reiterate in these podcasts is you don't really
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: need to do anything. Even a stock Tacoma with a
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: swag in the back and a couple bags and stock
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: tires and wheels and everything else like that that's going to
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: take you around the world always default to can I
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: spend this money on fuel to go someplace interesting as
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: opposed to at the end of this conversation, you feel
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: like you've got to change your tires because you're much
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: better off just wearing those out doing a bunch of
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: fun stuff and then maybe reconsider for later. One of
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: the things that we do talk about a lot and
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: has been a subject bantered about in the forums for
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: decades is tall and narrow versus tall and wide. And
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: there really is two ways to think about it. On
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: that whole science topic is we have to understand the
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: coefficient of friction. It removes this whole idea that wider
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: is better or narrow is better. A coefficient of friction
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: basically means as the tire gets wider, it has more adhesion.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: As a tire gets narrower, it has more vertical load pressure,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: so they basically cancel each other out. On a glass surface,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: like a perfectly smooth surface, tall is the same as
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: wide because fascinating. Yeah, so it actually putting that it
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: actually doesn't matter now there are Once you get off
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: of that perfectly smooth surface, then you absolutely have influences
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: that start to change. Should I go with a wide
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: tire or should I go with a narrow tire?
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and I guess to add to that,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: I feel like this kind of goes to the you know,
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: the steel versus aluminum wheels, Like I remember, you know,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: like ten fifteen years ago, where if you had aluminum wheels.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: You were a poser.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Like if you had leather in your land rover, it
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: was a really really bad thing. Yeah, And I think
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: that's kind of the same thing. I mean, one thing
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: that and this is just interjecting opinion, but I feel
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: like everything's just gone relatively wide vehicles have you know,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: better breaks, better suspension, better dampening, more appropriate gearing.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: I feel like people are actually finally.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: Starting to gear their vehicles for that additional rotating mass
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: right and loss of leverage. I don't know, I mean,
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: what's what's your thing? You've kind of always been a
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: tall and skinny guy. Yes, not myself personally have been
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: a tall and wide guy. But yeah, your tires. Why
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: guy that's into the skinny and I'm skinny that's into
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: the I don't really have a preference. I'm an equal
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: opportunity tire employer.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I have always chosen to go with more
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: of a narrow tire, and I'll explain why that's been
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: my approach there. There are some just thoughtful considerations around
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: that most of the time you're better off going with
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: about the same width of tire that would be the
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: widest tire available from the factory, and then simply add
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: aspect ratio. So if it's if it's a two sixty
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: five seventy, then go to a two sixty five seventy five. So,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: and the reason for that is the wheelwell is designed
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: for a pacific width of tire, so if you go
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: much wider, it either gets outside of the wheel well
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: or it won't tuck fully up into the wheel well,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: so then you end up with additional rubbing. It also
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: affects the sweep of the tire, so a wider tire
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: will have a wider sweep, which again results in more
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: rubbing on the vehicle. So if you start off with
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: a little bit narrower tire that's just taller, it will
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: fit up in the same compression on the wheel well.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: The other thing to consider too, is a narrower tire
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: has less rotating and reciprocating mass, so it's easier to accelerate,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: it's easier to stop, and it's easier to control with
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: the suspension because there's less weight. The other thing that
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: a lot of times people don't think about is you
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: gain fuel economy by not going wider. That's frontal resistance
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: as far as airflow, and its rolling resistance on the
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: tire as well, so that's another thing that you have
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: to really consider. One of the main reasons why you
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: see locals in Africa will use narrower tires is that
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: it keeps everybody in the same track, so you have
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: less tire on the road, which means you have less
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: surface area that's going to pick up a thorn or
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: a glass bottle or a piece of sharp metal. There's
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: actually less tire. So statistically, the narrower you go, the
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: lower the likelihood is that you're going to end up
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: with a flat. So those are all things to consider.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: There are absolutely reasons to go with wider tires. You
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: start to run into the mechanical limits of adhesion with
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: a narrow tire. It's the reason why sports cars don't
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: come with narrow tires anymore is because there's so much
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: power that as that rotating torque starts to limit the adhesion,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: you actually tear the tire away, so you burn rubber.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: That's actually what happens as opposed to the rubber continuing
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: to stick and the vehicle launching. So there are advantages
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: around mechanical kying and adhesion. We'll talk about those in
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: a few minutes. So those are definitely things to consider
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: when you look at a wide versus narrow tire.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think another thing you know for travelers
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: is actually figure out if you can get those tires.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: You know, for example, on my lankers or I have
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: what I think is a relatively ideal sized tire. It's
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: a Falcon at three W. I like it because it's
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: a winner rated tire. I don't necessarily want to be
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: limited as to where I can go, especially with some
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: states that require a winter snowflake rating. But I'm not
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: going to find a thirty four inch by eleven by seventeen.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, I can't even get that in Prescott, right,
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: Like I have to special order that. So maybe this
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: doesn't actually just apply to you know, to global guys,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: but I couldn't get that tire size and moapp Yeah,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: granted I do carry a spare, but you know then, obviously,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: and you don't have a spare if you use that one.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: So I think it's important to consider where you're going,
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: how you're using the vehicle. You know, there's there's something
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: to be said for common size tires. Correct, It's way
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: easier these days to find a seventeen inch tire than
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: it is a sixteen or even a fifteen, because think
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: about it, I mean what basically, whatever size tire are
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: lifted GEEP runs, you're always going to be able to
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: find that. You'll always be able to find a thirty three, ten, fifty, seventeen.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to drop the wheel size, but you'll
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: always be able to find a thirty three, You'll always
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: be able to find a thirty five, and these days
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: you'll pretty much always to be able to find a
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: thirty seven.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: They're just so common between the.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Jks, JLS, Gladiators, raptors, a lot of things. So I
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: guess that's my little tidbit of advice. No, that's technical.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: No, that's that's super valid, and it's the reason why
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: when you go to Africa you typically see a seven
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: point five or sixteen on a Nissan Patrol and on
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: a g Wagon and on a Defender and on a
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: seventy series. Is that everybody runs those tires and you
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: can find them in Mound in the middle of Botswana.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: They actually have they actually have those tires there. But
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: it's also not a reason to buy that size. Modern
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: tires are so much better. I've had so few flats.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: You've had one flat, Yeah, And I've had one flat
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: driving my mom's Lexus when she came to visit in Colorado.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You just don't get flats as often anymore, and
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: if you pay attention to the road as you're driving.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: The reason why I got a flat is I was
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: screwing with a GPS and as a result, I hit
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: a rock and opened up sidewall on a tire. But
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: it's fairly rare to get catastrophic flats anymore. Most of
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: them you can patch and repair, can plug, You can
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: just get you back to the road. So it really
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: isn't that you've got to go with this ubiquitous size.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: We do want to pick. We don't want to do
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: something really weird, like an eighteen International is gonna be
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: hard to find.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Any tire that comes on a modern land Rover is
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: going to be.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Or a modern land Cruiser. Yeah, yeah, it's going to
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: be available.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Oh you mean yeah, right, it's yeah, No, I'm saying
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: that the Yeah, I mean, you can't even like Landers
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: seem to come with a lot of nineteen inch wheel
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: sizes as kind of the smallest that you can go, right,
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: And I think there's one good year Dura tract that
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: isn't even sold in the United States and you have
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: to get.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: It from the UK.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, don't use that tire. Yeah, that is
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: going to end up in a bad time. Yeah, And
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: that is such a challenge. It's you wonder.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's they try to solve all
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: these engineering problems and they don't think about the end
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: use case. If it's bigger than an eighteen, it's typically
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: knocking worker.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: I'll take they really think about the end use case
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: because the people buying those cars want twenties.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they want big cars. Yeah, or big big tires,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: big wheels. Yeah. That's controversial and let's move on. Yeah,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: exactly so. And then another thought that we always have
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: is is bigger tires always better. In most cases, they
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: actually are, and that is somewhat contrarian to the way
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: that I viewed tires even fifteen years ago. But once
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: I started going to Iceland and I started experiencing the
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: benefit of truly massive.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but think fifteen years ago when we were building
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Discovery ones. Yeah, and that kind of stuff. You couldn't
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: put a thirty seven, Like I felt dirty putting a
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: thirty seven on my Gladiator, which is my main travel vehicle.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: But anything smaller would have kind of been awkward, like
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: it only has a like if a two inch lift. Yeah,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: you know, and it fits a thirty seven inch tire
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: because you know, in a relatively short amount of time,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: you know, the axle strength broad structure, the axle strength doubled,
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: the horsepower doubled, the amount of available gears, and that
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: transmission doubled. Yeah, you know, the performance of trash control doubled.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of things that have happened that really
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: do facilitate a much larger tire.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Even five years ago, I would have said, oh, this
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: is my usual thing needs versus once. Right, you don't
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: need thirty seven inch tires for almost anything in the
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: overland space unless you really need flotation or tons of
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: ground clearance. Yeah, boy, they are nice. Yeah, because there's
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: really no downside to it, I'll get fifty sixty thousand
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: miles out of those tires. Where again the tire that
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: I feel like the length of the how many miles
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: you can get from the tires has doubled.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And a larger diameter tire will give you much
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: better where because it's a larger diameter, so it's spinning
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: less rotations to cover the same distance, and that's certainly
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: a consideration. And there's a lot of ride quality benefits
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: to a larger tire too. When you air them down,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: they're much more comfortable, a lot more deformation of the carcass,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: there's a lot more leverage off road, so it's that
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: much easier to get up and open over ledges. Every
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: corrugation is smaller, so there are really big benefits to
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: big tires. And if you look at like an AEV
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: dodge ram for example, I know we use that as
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: a as an example often, which it's just incidental, but
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: they fit those things with forty inch tall tires and
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: they actually work really well with that tire on there.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean think again, you talk a lot about floatation.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: A seven thousand pound or runner on a thirty two
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: inch tire versus a you know, eighty five hundred pound
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: truck on forty inch tires. Ye, they think of the footprint.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: It's you know, the ground doesn't really know much difference.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: If maybe the ram is actually lighter, Yeah, I don't know.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty amazing to drive off highway with a
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: tire like a forty or a forty four inch tall tire.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: I think about the Arctic trucks that I've used in
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: mixed terrain in Iceland. You can encounter everything from rock
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: to really pdy areas to deep mud and glaciers and
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: everything else. And it is shocking how all those vehicles
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: work as they run effortless four to eight psi at
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: the most. I mean, when you're on the trail, you
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: run about eight psi, and then when you're climbing a
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: glacier when you need maximum traction, you could be down
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: to two or three psi. That's crazy.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's incredible how well they work. And we're talking
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: a lot about traction and larger tires and stuff. It
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: just has a brief overview as you air those tires down,
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: which you should always do when you're off road. It
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: has a myriad of benefits. But you're actually mainly increasing
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: the footprint in terms of length. That's correct, not as
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: much as you would think in terms of with There's
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: a great Instagram account Dirt Sunrise Kelsey and Tim Kelsey
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: used to work here. They actually these guys are really
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: really knowledgeable. They've traveled all over and they actually took
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: the time on one I want to say, they did
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: a video or an Instagram post about like putting ink
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: on the tire and then jacking the view, jacking the
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: vehicle out, putting ink on the tire and saying, here's
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: what this tire looks like at sixty psi all the
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: way down to almost nothing, and it's it's crazy. How
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: I want to say, they had thirty five inch tires
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: on their lan Cruiser turns into a little mini tank track.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: They really do. And you get eighty percent of the
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: improvement in floatation from the increased length of the tread.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Only about twenty percent of it comes. Now that varies
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: upon construction, so an E rated tire will deform slightly different.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: But for this example, you get about eighty percent of
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: the increased floatation from the length of the tread, which
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: is actually really a huge benefit because then you're not
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: again introducing all of this frontal resistance from a wider tire.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: So going tall and narrow, that's the advantage you create
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: those mini tank tracks. Yeah, which is great, Yeah, totally it. Yeah, absolutely,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: So when it comes to tall and narrow, default that
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: direction unless the conditions demand it, which would be something
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: like I'm climbing a glacier. So there's ways to do that.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: And then bigger is we always have to remember off road,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: bigger is almost always better. There are course limitations to that,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: and we could spend three hours talking about that. But
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: if you have a gladiator and you can fit thirty
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: seven on it easily, like Matt is just described, that's
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: going to provide a bunch of benefits in that regard.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: There are certainly downsides. You know, there's the alsofiability of
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: all of these suggestions, but we do need to you know,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: reinforce it. That's an advantage when it comes to that.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: And then I guess we could probably talk more kind
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: of just more of the general stuff too, Like siping
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: is a great example of a technology.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Never siped my tires, but it is something that you
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: can do that drastically improves the you know, the traction
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: of that of that tire.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: True, although you mentioned that you use a snowflake tire
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: which has additional so I'll typically have siping from the factory.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons why I also really like
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: a snow rate snowflake or snow rated tire because they
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: will have much more siping. And these are these very
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: fine cuts in the tire. You can add them after
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: the fact. Some people will sipe a mud tire, for example,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: or they will come factory syiped. And what happens is
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: those very thin cuts when you start to put rotational
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: force in it, either you're accelerating or breaking, it slightly
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: opens up that gap and it introduces this very sharp
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: edge to the surface, which makes a huge improvement in
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: wet weather, icy conditions, and it also makes a huge difference.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: It makes a huge difference on rocks and everything else.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: The only time you start to notice some downside is
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: you'll get some stone retention, some pebble retention in those sipes,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: and then it also can result in the lug integrity
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: problems of chunking and tearing. So that's just something to
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: be aware of is if you have a heavy right foot,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: siping will typically result in a lot of damage to
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: the tire. So yeah, but heavy right foot's generally fun,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: it can be, for sure, Yeah, totally yeah, Yeah, so
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: siping is a consideration. I also think that it's people
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: spend too much time focusing on treadlife. Yeah, in my opinion,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: because it's so subjective. It is depending on what you're driving.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: For example, like I do a lot of gravel Aha,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Arizona West Coast, a lot of forest service roads. I
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: would say of the off highway miles, I do ninety
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: percent of them around gravel and gravel. Really choose tires,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: it does, you know, so finding a tire that works
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: for the conditions that you're actually in. You know, I
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: talk to my buddy Adam Overland History on Instagram and
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: he just moved out from the East Coast and the tire,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: you know, the tires he he's has on his truck
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: now are really appropriate for the East Coast but out here,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, like in my personal experience, every time I
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: put mud terrain tires on a vehicle for how I
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: travel a chunk, they have issues and most of that
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: is all just gravel related.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that totally makes sense. And if you look at
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: like a typical tire use in Australia and Africa, they'll
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: see him most often with either a hybrid or an
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: all terrain because they do hold up a lot better.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: There's a lot more lug integrity because of the connection
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: between the lugs. But when it comes to treadlife, people
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: will say, oh, I'm going to buy this tire because
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: it has a sixty thousand mile tread warranty. So this
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: is that's a positive and that it has a long
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: tread life and a long warranty. Here's the downside that
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: really makes a difference. When you get a tire that
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: lasts that long, it has to be made to last
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: that long, which means that it is going to have
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: a very hard derometer, which is going to directly affect
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: adhesion and micro keying off road. So there's a reason
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: why most of the best off road tires have a
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: very soft rubber compound is because they work better on
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: hard rock, on granite, on slick rock, because you have
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: much better adhesion. There's a reason why race cars have
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: very soft tires. You don't want Fisher price hot wheels. Well,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: there's the example is the power wheel that I had
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: when I was quite young, very young, like I don't
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: know two or three. How often did you buy and
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: sell hot wheel I'm just trying to get a frame
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: of reference. Did you trade hot wheel cars and did
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: you buy No.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: I bought and sold Pokemon cars like like age eight something.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: I had the distinct advantage of my grandpa's company at
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: the time. I'm put the wrapping over the Pokemon cards.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, this is a huge advantage. I was wiping
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: my behind with charizards. That will make no sense to
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: anybody over thirty five. I'm sorry, but anyways, No, but
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: like the whole concept of like that power real thing.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: You know, you hear them, you hear the kids out
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: driving around and it's like a you know, it's a
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: they're loud, they're they're hard, they.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Don't get grip. Yeah, you don't want that, You really don't,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: unless your only goal is to make the tires last
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: as physically as long as possible, which which I think
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: there is a a use case for sure. Buddy mind
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: David prittis who's driven all over the world and a
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: defender uses Michelin tires because they wear so long.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Because he knows he doesn't necessarily a problem. Oh if
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: I get stuck, I'll witch out. I have max Trax
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: or whatever, and you know, they just last a really
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: long time. And for a traveler that's on a budget
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: and is considering those things, maybe that is a valid point,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: but you may not get the same level of performance.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what a great No, what a great example, Matt.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: And that's it's so important to talk about things like
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: that because hires are expensive. So if long tread life
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: or accessibility to tires in Africa or some location that
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: may be difficult, you may want something that lasts a
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: lot longer. But usually, you know, the difference is maybe
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: ten to fifteen thousand miles, so it's not a big difference,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: but that is totally valid. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Yeah,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: so I think tread life is something doing like, don't
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: use that as the reason to buy the tires or
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: as some great advantage for an off road tire. They
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: also can tear more often because they're harder compound. They
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: can chunk and tear more readily because again they're a
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: much harder compound, So that's something to consider as well.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Another thing that you see a lot on these tires
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: is these bead protectors, and they kind of protrude out
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: from the rim. Yeah. I've never actually seen them protect
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: anything other than get they get torn and kind of shredded,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: and they hang in.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: They get those fine cuts because they don't actually have
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: any there's no fibers or anything to actually hold the
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: rubber in. I don't mind the concept, nor do I
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: mind the concept of having you know, like kind of
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: that shoulder armor on the Yeah that I like, you know,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: in fact, if you go back, I'll use the BF
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: good Rich KO two. I think that's a KO. I
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: should say the BF Goodrich All Terrain need to KO,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: which had kind of two different iterations, and you had
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: the KO two and you go back and you're like, oh,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: that sidewall looks really naked. Yeah, you know, that's definitely
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: in my opinion, that was an area where I would
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: always see, you know, failures on the jail. Was like
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: guys that at the time, maybe ten years ago, had
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: older style hires. It didn't have that Sure that shoulder armor.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's necessarily the end all be all.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: No, I think you're right. Absolutely. That's been my experience too,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: is that those when the lug, when the shoulder lugs
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: wrap around to the side of the carcass. It does
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: provide some flat protection. It actually provides some additional traction
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: if you're in a rut or you're climbing up using
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: just the part of the sidewall of the tire, there's
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: definitely some advantages, particularly when you're airing down. So I
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: think you're right. I think that these some of them
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: can look ridiculous. I think there was something There was
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: one that looked like some bullets or something. Bullet.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: There's the bullet one, and then there's the flame one,
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: which all looks they look so ridiculous. They're all sold
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: by I'm going to stop myself there.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Anyway.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: But don't get a gimmicky tire, is what I'm trying
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: to say.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: But I do think you're right. I think that those
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: shoulder lugs have merit. They do add weight, and they
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: add some additional chunking possibilities. But I think the upside
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: far out weighs the downside. Yeah, yeah, that's a little
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: bit more weight, but veehic these days, they're heavy. They're heavy.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: It's probably marginal on the weight. Yeah, it is definitely
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: something to consider. But you know, the bead protector thing,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: don't use it as a reason to buy the tire.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: I've just seen those things just get torn and they
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: can kind of hang like little flaps off the side
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: of the off the side of the tire, So they
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: don't seem to perform a great function in that regard.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, now let's talk about the different types
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: of tires. So you tend to favor the all terrains,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Matt and kind of talk about why you use an altar.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: What do you look for in an all terrain? You know,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: number one thing I look for is a winter rating.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: You know, being a millennial, I have to have a
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: snowflake rating. I'm told you know.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: So you know that snowflake grating super important. I can't
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: drive without that is snowflake grated. I'm snowflike grated. No,
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: but that that is a really big thing. I mean,
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: I want to say Washington, Oregon, part you know, passes
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: in Colorado, a lot of places it's it's snowflike grated tires,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: which is a winter a snow tire or winter tire.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: That is kind of the accepted standard that is used,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: you know, So that's really important.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: I agree, and I find that it's a big upside
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: for other performance attributes too. They tend to have more siping,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: they tend to be a softer derometer, and they tend
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: to have a little bit more carbon black in there,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: which improves ice and wet condition performance, so you know stuff.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: So so for me, that kind of has has it
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: in my history of overlanding, has brought me to two tires.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Has brought me to kind of the BFG all terrain,
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: and I had run that forever, but I always had
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: problem with chipping and chunking and gravel, you know I did.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: I chased the Rebel Rally as media and I say
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: it was the first one. It would have been like
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. I had a brand new set of thirty
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: five inch BIF Goodrich Co Two's great tire. I think
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: they perform really well, but I completely roasted them after
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: one trip and I'm like, yeah, that wasn't good. And
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: then I switched to these Falcons and that was when
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: I learned differences in rubber can make a huge difference
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: for how how you're actually using the tire. I think
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: probably the BIF Goodrich is a higher performing tire, probably
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: is better limit handling. That's why I kept them on
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: my Raptor, but they've got to work on gravel for me. Yeah,
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: most of my cars generally all fit lockers or they
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: come with lockers, so I can overcome most of the
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: things I find on an Overlin style trip just through that.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: That first generation of Falcon eighties was like magic on
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: hard rock. They actually used a racing car compound to
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: make those aights. I never had any chunking or tearing,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: and they were insane on hard rocks.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: And I know, I guess I was. I bring up
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Falcon a lot, but it's because I was like so impressed.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: I thought they were kind of a discount, cheap tire brand.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: And I've never I don't want to say I haven't
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: associated with those brands, but I just I was never
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: naturally drawn to them, be if Goodrich has like the
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: storied history in Baja. But then you really start to
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: look at it, and they're Sumi, Tomo, Rubbert, They're Dunelop.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: They're one of the world's largest tire companies. They just
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: don't own Dunlop in the United States. You know, they
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: make every tire that leaves a Toyota factory in Japan.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, those tires are on them now they're really they're
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: really good quality. Yeah.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: So but anyways, I guess I'm in a little bit
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: of a tangent, you know, snowflick rating. You know, they've
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: got to work and gravel for me, which I guess
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: is just something you kind of have to, you know,
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: test and try and you know ask you know, trusted friends, yourself.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Those are my two biggest, the biggest things. And I
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: don't encounter a lot of mud. When I look at
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: the places that I go, it's the West coast of
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: the United States, it's rock, it's shale, it's sand. An
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: altery entire. While it may always seem better to have,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: you know, larger siping larger, a higher void tire is
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: what I should have actually said, a higher void tire,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: that's not always the case.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: It's not always better, Yeah, especially in sand. A perfectly
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: bald tire just about or like a factory tread tire
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: is going to work excellent in sand because you want
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: to maximize the floatation and you want to minimize the
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: disruption of the silica. So the fact that you have
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: a low void, you actually get much better floatation and
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: you're less likely to dig a hole.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: When you go to if you ever get the chance
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: to do kind of the sand deserts and the Golf Peninsula,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Arabian Peninsula.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: I should say.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: They run these nylon belted tires, which I want to
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: say aren't even street legal, but the'll put them on
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: land cruisers and they kind of have this texture to
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: them that's fascinating, and they'll have this lip where kind
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: of on the shoulder the tire just to ride additional
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: floatation and they rock and it would be the last
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: thing you would look at and you're like, this guy
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: has bald tires.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: No it's not.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: And then again with that nylon porror, help me out here,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: what's the technical term for that? The carcass, Oh, nylon
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: carcass or whatever. You know, they stretch out, they get
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: length as Oh sure, so they even do better under floatation.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: And those side scallops that kind of reminds me of that.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Remember that Lamborghini suv that was the first one to
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: do and it had the little side scallops. Those are awesome.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: And you know when I did when I did the
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: launch for the Lamborghini Urus a while ago and we
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: were off road on a track that later I saw
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: the tractor drag tires over to make it nice and smooth.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: That was one of the things that they pointed out
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: was like, just like the LM zero zero two, we
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: have this, you know, this little weird shoulder design thing
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: that helps in sand because that's probably where most like
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: total euruses are being used. It would actually be really
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: fun in the sand, I bet.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it would be a rally car. Yeah, it
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: would be really good for it. Yeah. So when we
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: look at sand, it's easy to think like, oh, we
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: want these paddle tires or we want these mud tires
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: so we can scoop the sand. Absolutely valid when you
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: have huge horsepower and.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: A language like going to Glamis and you have like
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: a blown eve An LS nine or something in the
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: back of a tube buggy.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so how that works to what we just said, Yeah,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: that's how that works with the scallop with the like
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: the basically the ball tires with the huge scoops on them,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: or a mud tire. You have to have enough horsepower
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: and enough wheel speed to actually displace more sand volume
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: and weight of sand than the resistance of the vehicle.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: So that's why those those sand rails are so light
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: and they're so fast they can displace the weight of
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: saying they literally.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Get up on plant. They basically it's like it's like
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: a boat. It's like a jet engine. Yeah, it's like
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: a jet engine of sand coming out the back. And
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: if you're if you're Series one Discovery can't do that,
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: then you're better off going with much a much more
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: tame tread pattern. So when it comes to tires, I mean,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: what do you look for? I guess I mean you're
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: you're kind of an alterrain tire guys, Well.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: I am for sure right now. On the Defender, I
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: have the Classic x Els which we'll talk about in
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: a little bit, which is click right, which is just
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: purely because they're the right tire for that vintage of vehicle.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: But when it comes to all terrains, I do really
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: tend to use them. I do like the newest version
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: of the BF Goodrich Ko because they've improved a lot
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: of that lug integrity and they've reduced a lot of
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: the chipping, which I think is a real advantage. I
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: ran the Continental Terrain Contact. Oh I've you had those
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: in the GW Wagon and the GEW Wagon Yeah, for years,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: and it was an excellent tire for that vehicle, very
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: smooth going down the road. I got an improvement in
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: fuel economy with triple diflocks, you just really don't really
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: run into that much problem.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Rus Dorn has those on his now, and I think
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: even Laura's parents bought us set of those. Yeah, they're
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: really really great tires. They very much impressed me. I
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: also like the new toyot at threes. I'm impressed with
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: the amount of siping on them, the way that the
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: lugs are configured on the tire. I had it out
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: in the slick rock of Sedona recently in the Lexus,
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: and it was incredible how much grip those tires had.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Fascinating. Yeah, they were really fast and fascinating. They tell
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: me more, tell me more. Yeah, those were Those were
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: really good. So I think the thing anymore is that
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: so many of the all terrains are great. When Cooper
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: came out with their AT two or AT three, this
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: is probably close to ten years ago, it literally was revolutionary.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: It was so good. And then now everybody realized that
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: and they have addressed a lot of that perform.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: I don't actually know a lot of bad tires in
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: the market, like I was gonna. You know, we have
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: our preferences, and I think it's kind of tires are
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: like the beery you drank, Millerlight, bud Light, whatever. You
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: just kind of seemed to stick with us. Orange blossom.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybe I'm the snowflake orange blossom beer. I probably
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: am the snowflake. I just don't know it. I gave
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: you the orange blossom, that's true, So you bring it in?
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Oh man, Where was I going with that? There's a
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: lot of good tires out there these days. I mean,
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: I've been on the trail with a lot of people.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: I'm like those things and then they don't really have
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: any issues. I mean, if I was to offer sweeping
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: advice on all trains. There are definitely brands out there,
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: like some national chain four wheel drive stores that are
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: just selling. They go to as somebody in the industry.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: They go to the Lower South haul at Sema, to
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: all the Chinese tire companies and say, make me something
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: with flames on it, and then they sell them to
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: people and they suck. Surprisingly, there's no actual engineering that
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: goes into a lot of those things. But if you
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: stick to a major tire company these days, I don't
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: want to say that you can't go wrong.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: But I think you're right. I think that they've done
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: so much to raise their game. There's a lot of
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: money in aftermarket tire sales. These tire companies really care
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: about that, and they also really care about fitment on
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: vehicles like a Jeep rubicon, like the tire that ends
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: up on a Tacoma or a Jeep Rubicon that says
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: something about the brand. So they really fight for those
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: positions I think in the marketplace, and they are really good.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: But one of the downsides of the cheaper tires is
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: they just don't have access to things like noise canceling engineering,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: really understanding the finite element analysis and all of those
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: modeling around traction profiles, and that's what you get with
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: a better quality tire. Yeah, let's go on to mud
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: terrain tires. I don't really know anything about them. I
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: haven't used them.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: And the last time I used a mud terrain tire
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: was when we had that land Rover Trek Discovery.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah right, and that had cam's on.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: There KM two's and those tires, I, while I had
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: a few sets of them over my years, they had
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: see through and see through is basically where like you
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: can look at the side profile a tire. Yeah, they
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: didn't technically have sea through, but they are pretty close,
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: pretty pretty dang close. It's where you can literally see
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: a line through, like think of a paddle tire. A
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: paddle tire would be the definitions have had a lot
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: of sea through your lateral grip and wet or mud
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: or anything. I parked that thing, and I don't know
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: if I've ever told you.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: This, you haven't. This is new. I love parked.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: I parked this car and because somebody was stuck on
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: it was actually on the It wasn't on the test.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: It might have been on the test track. There's some
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: people stuck ahead of me. I just went out like, oh,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: there's snow wheeling in here. And I look back and
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: this car, which was had been parked for like a minute,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: is now moving sideways. Yeah, and I was done. Yeah,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: that's when I was done with mud trend tires. But
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: I don't know, that's a really important characteristic, right. So
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: that was a big problem with the KM two was
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: that it had very poor side slow holding. So that
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: would happen in snow, it would happen in mud. So
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: that channel that you said that isn't interrupted. It's an
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: uninterrupted channel.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: It would just allow for the material just to flow
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: through it and it would slide downhill, and that means
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: it doesn't hold its line. It's more inclined to oversteer.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: All kinds of problems. And if you look at the
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: KM three, they've totally addressed that. Because I haven't used
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: the KM three, but just looking at it, it looks
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: so much better, so much better. Yeah, and it is
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: so much better my experience. It's a lot more quiet
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: as well. You know, there's a lot of problems that
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: come up with mud tires. You have a hard time
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: keeping the balance they produce. They can produce a ton
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: of noise, particularly once they start to wear, so then
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: that just just adds to that driver fatigue at the
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: end of the at the end of the trip, they
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: don't last as long. The tread life is much less
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: on those. If you need a mud tire though, like
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: if you're traveled, if you live in the southeast, and
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: you probably want a mud tire, Yeah, exactly, the terrain
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: has dictated that you need that particular attribute and then
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: make sure that you have a really great mud tire.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: But in most cases outside of the mud unless you're
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: in again extreme rock crawling starts to make a difference.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: So that's when we start talking about that mechanical king,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: and that is where the lug of the tire starts
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: to interface with significant surface irregularity, protrusion, edge of a ledge,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: et cetera, where it actually helps to aid with the
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: tire gripping and maintaining king so that it can climb
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: up the obstacle. That's something where an all terrain may
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: slip on that particular feature of the rock, whereas a
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: mud tire would stay locked on just like a rock
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: climber climbing up the face of a surface. Yeah, and
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: those high voids too.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: I think when you get into the particular design features
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: of a mud rain tire, how they can clear themselves
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: as a really big part of that too.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: For sure. On the on the on in the mud
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: for sure. So that void, let's talk real quickly about
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: some of the void considerations. So if you have a
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: mud tire that has a vertical shoulder on the lug,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: that creates a lot of stiiction and where the mud
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: literally stays captive inside that void. So you want to
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: look for a mud tire that has a tapered lug
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: profile because that allows when the wheels, when the tire
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: starts to spin up, it allows it to evacuate the
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: mud from that and then that also aids a lot
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: in lug integrity. So you want something with a little
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: bit of a taper to it. And some of the
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: newest mud tires are really smart. They'll have small scallops
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: on the surface of the lug that again reduce that
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: stiiction of the mud.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: The BFG is doing crazy things, like they have these
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: little like bars that kind of yes, serve a function
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: to kind of break that sticktion. I'll call it that
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: vacuum that's holding the mud in there.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: One of the things that they're doing is they have
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: those little rock ejectors too.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: If you're just like, yeah, and they really do they
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: really do work. Anyone that's listening that knows much about swords,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know anything about swords except for this one
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: particular thing or anything about sort. But if you look
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: at the length of a sword blade, oftentimes they'll have
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: this channel that runs down the flat of the blade,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: like for the blood to come out. Well, it does
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: the same thing. So when you impale your enemies. It
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: allows you to pull the sword back out so it
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: doesn't say stuck in the victim. So it's the same
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: thing works with a mud tire.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Apologize for inducation twice once on this podcast and to
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: probably at lunch in middle school describing.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Took almost katana bro. I'm glad to know that I
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: have risen myself to middle school discussion.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna get like a katana
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: over your I'm gonna get that for you.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: That's hilarious. Okay. Yeah. So then on mud tires, you're
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: going to have a significant cost to miles per gallon.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of rolling resistance that comes from a
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: mud tire, so you need to be.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Aware of noise is like the biggest thing now, these
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: new these new mud terrain tires I'll particularly use, like
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: the I think the most recent mud tire I had
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: was like Falcon Wild Peak MT. I have been in
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: vehicles that have had the KM three and they were
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: really quiet. I've never personally owned them, but I have
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: like Continental MPT eighty one's forty one forty two inches
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: tall on my Earth Rummer, and that is the most
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: fatiguing thing about driving that vehicle is the just constantly,
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: and I think that's something that that travelers or or
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: even let's use a more practical case, Bob who lives
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: in the East Coast that wants to go to Moab,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: it's going to be really really annoying for that drive. Yeah, fatiguing, fatiguing,
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: that's something to pay attention to. And also note that
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: as the tire wears down oftentimes gets louder.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Yes in most cases, that's been my experience. So we're
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: not saying don't use mud tires if the use case
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: scenario demands it, or if you're traveling up the length
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: of Africa and you intend to do a bunch of off
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: road driving, if you're going through the Congo, yeah you're
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: gonna want to have some mud tires. But although locals
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: do it with on bald tires all the time, so
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: we have to keep all that stuff in line. My
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: experience with mud tires more recently has been more positive.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: You do need to know that there's there's a lot
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: of consequences to using a mud tire, I think in
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: most cases, and I would admit this myself personally in
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: the past I've used mud tires because they look better
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: on the car.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: They do look and they look when they are a
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: higher performance tire. That's right, Like strictly speaking, they're going
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: to be a higher performance tire. Like there's a reason
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Dave Harrington puts those forty one inch I rocks on
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: his trucks.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, because they really do work in most
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: off road conditions. You know, for travel, A lot of
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: times we're driving highway to get there, so we have
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: to just keep that in mind. And then there are
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: these new hybrid tires, which I think are important to
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: touch base on, mostly because we want to continue to
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: encourage manufacturers to make them because they really do. Like
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: a Dura track, which is one of the OG hybrids,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: it's an open lug side channel and then it has
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of siping and a fairly closed pattern down
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: the crown of the tire, and those those tires work
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: excellent and they're fairly quiet on the road. They have
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: a lot of grip, they do really well on gravel.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: So I like the fact that we're seeing a lot
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: more of those hybrid tires. Yeah, the ridge grapplers. Have
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: you had one of those?
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: I haven't I've had some friends that've had them, and
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: they seem to rave about them. I want to say
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: they were like rotationally mold their tires and there's some
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: technical advantages to I could be wrong in the term
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: rotational molding, but people seem to really like them.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: I've never again.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: For me, I mean, I would be more likely to
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: run a hybrid tire than I would a mud train
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: tire these days, I'm really curious to see where that
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: goes out. You know, you have the Cooper st Max,
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: which is another kind of the OG. We've used a
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: lot lot of driving miles behind those in Australia. Yeah,
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: those are great, really do it in the beach, really durable,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: really great for gravel. Those are a great choice. I
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: want to say, Cooper just got bought by Goodyear.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: Oh it could be.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Five nine squillion jillion dollars or something. You have the
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: Baja ATZP three that is the same I guess the
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: same company as Cooper is is uh, Mickey Thompson Are they?
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: I want to say, could say so. Milestar Patagonia is
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: one that actually you brought up.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: I've not tried it, but it's one that's new to
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: the market. Yeah, new and then you have those Yokohamas.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah those are brand new. Yeah, lander at Dan Grek
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: speaks highly of those. Yeah, Yeah, he's put quite a
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: few miles on those things.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: Always had a really good, really good I think there's
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: I think there's a huge argument if you're an overlander
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: that is, hey, yeah, maybe I'm going to go on
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: some more technical trails, maybe I don't necessarily know where
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: I'm going. I think Dan's trip through Africa that's a
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: great tire for that because he's doing deserts in Namibia
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: and then he's doing the coast and the Congo And.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's definitely the argument for the hybrids. And I'm
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: I'm just really excited to see what's going to come
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: from that. And I actually plan on trying to spend
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: more time testing those kinds of tires so that way
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: we can get a pretty good understanding of the performance
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: profile of those. Should we uh bust on a wheels wheels? Yeah,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break from this episode
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: to thank Beyond Clothing for their support of the Overland
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: Journal podcast. Yond makes technical garments for overlanding, the outdoors
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: and also for adventure travel. They produce everything from recovery
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: gloves to durable and weather proof soft shells, and many
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: of their products are made in the United States. Matt
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: has been wearing the Venom K four jacket for over
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: a year and speaks very highly of it. And I
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: have been obsessed with this Celeros midweight pullover and I
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: wear it many times a week and often look for
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: it when it's in the laundry. Beyond is also celebrating
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: women explorers and has up to forty percent off of
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: women's gear through the twelfth of March. For more information,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: check out Beyond clothing dot com. If you don't have Steely's,
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: you don't go off road, Well, you can't hammer them
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: out if you don't have steel eyes, or you can
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: get a nice wheel that won't need hammering out. Yeah,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: so I guess with on a broad.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Spectrum, you have alloy wheels and you have steel wheels.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: I know that there's magnesium wheels, but we're not driving.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: GT. Th Arres is here Unfortunately, maybe that's another podcast.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: It's a different one specifically with the Wissack package for
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: any PORTI of files out there. Yeah, anyway, so you
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: know there's there's foragers cast, there's this new thing called
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: flow forming, which is kind of in between cast and forging.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Those are very interesting.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: I guess maybe you're better to get into the scientific
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: specifics of what make these things what they are. I
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: have to say, for most overland uses, it seems on
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: Instagram that the new thing is, oh, going to have
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: these forged wheels, and like you're doing that for likes.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: You don't actually need those things. I've seen the thirty
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: five mile an hour you drive with your roof tent. Yeah,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: you're not really need once.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. When it comes to wheels, I believe
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: the most important thing is a quality manufacture. Yeah, because
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: the big problem with cast, which is a valid concern,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: is this would be inclusions or it's basically when as
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: the molten aluminum is being poured into the cast, that
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: you can get these inclusions and you can get these
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: little pockets of air that results in the start or
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: the facilitation of a crack and damage to the wheel.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: And I have seen that kind of stuff happen so
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: long ago. I don't think that that's an issue anymore.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: There's a bunch of upsides to cast. They can be
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: made lighter, they could be made more complex, They can
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: be made more easily, so they're less expensive. You know,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: forging forge wheels can look fantastic too, so there's advantages
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: to both. There could also probably travel for a month
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: for each wheel. Yeah, there's a big difference. There's a
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: big difference in price. So I think the key is
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: to go with a good quality manufacturer.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: And there are certain certifications to DOT for sure, you know,
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: they have to be DOT compliant, particularly for beadlocks, but
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: there are these OE level certifications.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: That you should look for.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: We'll put those in the show notes because they're a
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: little bit complicated to just say out, but look for
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: those things. There is a lot of junk out there
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: as far as cast wheels go. You know, do your research.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: There are a plethora of You almost can't throw a
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: rock without hitting a quality off road specific vehicle manufacturer
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: wheel wheel manufacture.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: But there are some great ones out there's great ones. Yeah,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: you know, I think about a newer one on the
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: scene is fifteen fifty two make great looking wheels, a
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: bunch of different and they're kind of understated, which I like.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: Method has We've had a set of methods every possible
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: configuration of wheel you can imagine and they've got this
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: new kind of bead grip technology, which I need to
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: test that. But in theory, I have a set. Oh
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: do you so we got it? We should try the
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Trail Series seven O two's but it does look like
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: that would actually work, particularly with the new tire.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: The cost benefit between that and a I've had badlocks
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: on jeeps.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: I've had this on jeeps. I air down quite a bit.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: I mean I go down to fifteen PSI sometimes when
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: I'm on the beach in Baja, just because of the
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: way to the camper and everything on your back, and
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: I like to give it the skinny pedal sometimes, you know,
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: generally for me, the beadlock thing comes into play high speed,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: a lot of lateral movement, vehicles rotating, and then the
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: bead pops off, you know. So just having a little
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: bit of extra that lateral stability there from that bead locker.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: I think it makes sense. I mean my experience with
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: the Arctic trucks, even down to two or three psi,
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: I've never lost a bead. They use a compound to
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: help it kind of stick, and then they slightly oversize
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: the wheel, like I don't know what the slightly is.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the dimensions are that change, but
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: the wheel is slightly oversized from a fifteen so that
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: it's very tight. It's like a very tight, tight fit.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: And I have never seen one of those. Well, actually
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: I did have one on a Fiatna Yokoa glacier that
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: I lost a bead, but it was a It was
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: easy enough to get that back on.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: I'll give you a beer, another beer if you can
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: repeat whatever you just said.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: That glacier was called a yat and yogla and yoga.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: I'm going to get I'm going to get hate mail
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: from all three m RI Icelandic listeners. Let me come
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: here and they can all they can all speak better
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: English than both of us combined.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: And they're better looking. Yeah, and they have better hair.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: They definitely have better hair than me. I don't think
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: mine's bad.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So I think that beadlocks have their place. There
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: are only a couple dead lock you know, DOT approved beadlocks.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: Compliant Compliant is the technical term. There, gotcha good, that's
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: good correction there.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: The Hutchinson's are one that come to mind, and then
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: more recently AEV came out with their crestone that it's
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: like it's a hybrid wheel where you can run it
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: with no beadlock, you can run it as a beadlock,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: you can run it with a trim ring, or you
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: can run it with a true beadlock ring. And they're
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: fairly reasonable too, like in the high two hundreds per wheel.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, in my opinion, a true beadlock is
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: that's like a Hutchinson catchers both captures both sides, and
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: the only way they're really able to do that is
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: through this kind of nylon rubber insert that literally sam, yeah,
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: it has think of it as a sixteen inch wheel
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: for a fifteen inch tire, so it's a higher profile.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: The inside is absorbed by this rubber nylon piece and
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: then the front of the wheel is actually bolted on,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: so it's sandwiched. It can't go anywhere, you know, really
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: really tall lip. That's a proper beadlock like you'd see
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: in a military style application with an O ring, and you.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: Can even have you can even have those inserts that
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: are a run flat too, So you know, Hutchinson's have
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of advantages on the performance side, the durability side.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: They're extremely heavy, difficult to balance. In my experience, they
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: were very difficult.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, you've had a set in your g I've
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: had a set on my Wrangler, and then I have
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: a set on the Earth Roamer, and I have yet
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: found a way to perfectly balanced them. I've gotten them close.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: I've also experienced a lot of like O ring issues.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Now this isn't necessarily Hutchinson's fault. Sure, ninety percent of
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: the time it's probably gonna be you know, installation error. Right,
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: you do have to continually torque these wheels and check them.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: And really they are the coolest wheel on the planet. Though,
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: I mean the want we talk about wants versus needs.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: This was a scotty want for a really long time.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: And then when I finally got them and just couldn't
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: get them to work right, and I just went back
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: to the factory g Wagon wheels. But they're very, very cool.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: And you never really have to worry about hopping a
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: bead like I used to am my JK.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Rub Khan.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: I would run eight PSI why because I could, Yeah,
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: And it was a magic carpet ry like for sure,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: it was wonderful.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: But I think those AEV crestones are a really nice
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: alternative that's what I put on the Lexus and they work.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: I find for most people, they're going to push a
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: bead off on a rock, they're gonna be at low
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: low pressure, and they're going to come across a rock
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: and it's literally just gonna it's gonna wedge itself in there.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: You're gonna lose pressure either you're going to it's preventing burping,
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: and burping guys is literally when sidewall gets kind of
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: pushed off of that that surface that's actually holding the
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: pressure and then it just farts.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it just can be for a moment until
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: the tire rotates and it reseals.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: Or it can mean that you completely lose pressure and
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: then your tire comes off, or it's an impact thing.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: So I think realistically that like those av crest ownes
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: are like that.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: They're probably the best option. But in most cases, I
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: don't think that they're necessary. And it wouldn't be something
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: like if I was trying to decide between can I
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: stay traveling in Ecuador for another month or buy these
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: more expensive wheels, I would rather travel for another month.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: You know, most OEM wheels are more than sufficient and
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: just save the money for sure, but there is a
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: place for steels to I think they just look right
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: on certain car they do, Yeah, they do, like on
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: your defender. Yeah, it's right, just looks right. Yeah, seven
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: point five xcls on steals, it looks just right. Oh
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: you never talked about I'm.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Holding you to this xcls and why you love them
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: and John Lee loves them, and no one else I
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: know loves them. They look right, but they suck. Yeah,
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: they they have admitted.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Admit it. Admit it. Admit it. They suck. Admitted. Yeah,
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: so they they they've killed me, are nearly killed me.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Excuse me on many occasions, like anytime you hit the
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: brakes on what surfaces and then they they simply just
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: look right. But they they're they're terrible. They're terrible in everything.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: But two ways. They do not puncture. I've never seen
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: one punctured. It doesn't mean that they don't puncture, but
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: I have never seen one get a puncture. And then
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: they work great if it is very shallow mud and
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: you just kind of dig through that surface. So they
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: they definitely have their place, and they're just cool. They're
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: cool as hell. They will outlast you. Yeah, totally. They're
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: cool as hell, and they they live forever, and they
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: look great on classic vehicles. But if you're if you're
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: thinking you're going to get some performance advantage from an xCl, yeah,
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: look elsewhere.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: That would be a great greeting in some countries. I
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: hope you live longer than an EXEA.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: So true. But yeah, they're cool.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, steel wheels, there's just not a lot of people
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: doing them anymore. I mean, I guess the designs are
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: kind of I'm not going to say limited, but they are.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: They have a E shaped hole or a circle shaped hole,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: or no hole or no hole exactly. Yeah, you'll find
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: them on less expensive vehicles or as like a base
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: model or as a spare tire. The argument that you
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: can hammer them out is absolutely true. But I've also
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: hammered out aluminum wheels if you're careful. Anytime I've had
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: to hammer a wheel that was on a motorcycle and
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: they were all aluminum wheels. It worked just fine. So
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: there's some advantages around that. The disadvantage is that they
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: are very heavy, so you have that additional rotating and
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: reciprocating mass, So that's that's a downside.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: But there's nothing wrong with steel wheels. I think they're
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: super They look great, cool, Like the Defenders has available
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: steel wheels exactly, you know, it's nice. I feel like, again,
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: wheels and tires are something that changed so much. They
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: have in well, I mean think think fifty years. Like
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: I want to say it was Michelin or somebody posted.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: I saw it on some Porsche Instagram page where they
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: posted a nineteen seventy factory fitted Michelin tire to a
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: nine to eleven. Yeah, and then they posted a picture
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: of a twenty twenty factory fitted Michelin tire and it was.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Like insane, it was like drastically different.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but even even going ten maybe fifteen years back again,
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: I'll use the Discovery or whatever vehicle you want, a
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: Defender or something. Sure, you know you're putting a two
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: thirty five eighty five sixteen on that vehicle, a thirty
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: two narrow you had ample sidewall, not near the sidewall
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: that like my Gladiator would have. Sure, I feel like
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: steel wheels definitely have their place. But since we can
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: fit such larger tires with such huge flotation and huge sidewalls,
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: I don't think alloys are really bad anymore.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: No, I think they have a lot of advantages. One
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: of the best reasons to run steel wheels is that
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: when you're traveling internationally, you lower the profile of the vehicle.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: They're less likely to want to be to steal them
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: because they don't look like they're valuable. So that is
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: one of the best advantages of a steel wheel. It's
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: very understated. It doesn't look like something that's flashy and
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: expensive and worth stealing. So you know, I would definitely
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: look at steel wheels in that advantage. Personally, I think
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: I gravitate towards them because I like the fact that
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: they are more minimalists, that they are more understated. I
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: find that, like, maybe it just kind of appeals to
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: my practicalities a little more than some performance advantage that
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: people make up just to justify their decision.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's this need versu one. Yeah, I don't really
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: see a huge difference. Like I would suspect a large
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: percentage of drivers you've swapped steel wheels for aluminum wheels,
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: they would have no idea which set was on the
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: car at the current time.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be difficult to tell the difference between
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: the two, for sure. Absolutely. One thing that is really
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: important to discuss on wheels. That I do want to
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: make sure we talk about is offset. Yes, and it
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: is one of the things that until I knew it
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: and understood it, it was like a light bulb came on.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: You'll see a vehicle that'll have these very wide wheels
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: that are pushed out from the road dozers, Yeah, think
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: of a broad dozer. Yeah. So that means that they
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: even have a negative offset, which means that they're pushed
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: past the centerline of the hub. Those are actually extremely
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: unsafe unless it unless it is demanded for the application
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: like an Arctic truck. So the reason why vehicles come
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: from the factory with a positive offset, which means that
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: the majority of the wheel is inside so distal to
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: the surface of the hub, is because if the vehicle
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: comes off the crown of the road and it hits
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: a patch of snow or gravel or grass, the outside
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: of that tire is going to it's going to catch
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: that resistance, it's going to feel that resistance, and if
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: it has a negative offset, it's going to pull the
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: vehicle into the ditch. Whereas if it has a positive offset,
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: which means when it encounters that resistance, it actually causes
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: it to either stay neutral or to force the vehicle
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: away from that resist average. That's correct. So it's the
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: leverage point. When you see somebody that's running these super
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: wide wheels that are stuck way out from the hub
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: surface and they tell you that there's some advantage to that,
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: they're absolutely incorrect. And I used to think that, and
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: I was incorrect. There's a reason why they have positive offsets.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: We need to fit positive offset wheels to our vehicles
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: because they are much safer.
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and too, just reliability the vehicle, all of that
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: additional leverage that's being placed on your wheel bearings.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: It's the same retearing components, everything, everything, everything, you know.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: I think that there's some there's some vehicles that can
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: get away with it, maybe more than others. You know,
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: they're also how do you say, I would be far
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: more willing to accept a negative offset wheel on a
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: thirty five hundred pickup truck sure than I would. It's
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: a coma. I mean again, I'm not ragging at it
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: to coma. I feel like I really do. Yeah, yeah,
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: heavier duty vehicle can handle it. But even even the
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: Arctic trucks that we've used, those are a high Lux
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: which have very similar suspension to the Tacoma.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: They are very robust, but there's no way around it.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: They have to use this negative offset. They cannot tug
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: the tires because they're too big. They're eighteen and a
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: half inches wide. But in every other instance, we need
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: to make sure that we're using a positive offset wheel
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: and we want to stick to about is the same
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: offset that the factory has.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: Moving on a wheel size, and I think it has
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: been commonly understood that a smaller wheel is always better
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: for off road, and I think there's merits to that
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: sure flotation for the sureing that I will say. Now,
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: I learned this with my F two fifty that I
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: had a while ago. I had seventeen inch wheels on it.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: I think there were seventeen's for a while, and then
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: I went up to twenties. Now I went up to
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: twenties with a thirty seven inch tire, so I still
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: had a huge amount of sidewall. That vehicle handled so
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: much better. It didn't push through the sidewall, It understeered less. Yes,
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: sure it was more direct. So I think that's also
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: something to consider.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: The reason why sports cars have large diameter wheels and
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: low profile tires as you have much less deflection of
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: the sidewall, which is going to improve traceability and predictability
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: and line holding. The downside is that you have a
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: big reduction in floatation and more of the wheel is
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: at risk. Yes, so you're much more likely to end
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: up with But there is a balance there, I guess.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: And that's just the seventeen right, Yeah, Yeah, And you know,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: I guess that's all I'm trying to get to is
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: recognize that vehicle speeds are faster than they used to be. Sure,
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: vehicles are significantly more powerful than they used to be. Yep,
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: And kind of keep that in like, just because you
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: could put a fifteen inch wheel on your eight thousand
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: pound full sized truck doesn't actually mean that you should. Sure,
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: you know, there's going to be that happy compromise which
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: generally lands in a seventeen.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you look at the use case, I mean, kind
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: of in summary on all of these things, by the
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: tire that best meets your needs for the majority of
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: your driving, and then just feel comfortable with that decision.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: You're going to be so much happier in the long run,
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: you know, avoid using a mud tire if you live
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: in the Southwest and you don't plan on driving in
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: the mud, because there's going to be a lot of
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: upsides to having an all terrain. And then when it
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: comes to any of these purchases, like we talked about
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: in the beginning, is if you need a new set
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: of tires, then do the research and buy something that's
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: really appropriate for you. Maybe just stick with what's stock
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: for a while and use that money to go explore
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: new places. And I think that as we've continued on
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: with this podcast, it's become more and more apparent to me.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: And the feedback that I get is it is about
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: the travel, and that it is the thing that brings
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: Matt and I so much joy, and we know it
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: brings all of you so much joy. We do need
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: to understand how these things work so we can make
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: good decisions and spend our money wisely. But let's spend
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: a lot less of it if we can.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, And let's not be the people that are
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: just about to build about the constant changes, the constant modification.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: If you've got it, run with it. Yeah, Just run
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: with what you got and then find out where it
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: works and when it where it doesn't and then build appropriately. Right.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, hopefully this has been enlightening for some of you.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: I actually learned some things from Scott, as I usually do.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's such an interesting topic and there's so much
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: to explore around tires and tire performance and the way
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: that it improves our travels and give us some insights
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: in the way things work. And that's why we started
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: these Principles of Overlanding series, is that we really wanted
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: to do the deep dive into things. Like we have
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: talked for an hour and eight minutes on wheels and tires.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: There's so much and we talked for another hour. Yeah
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: and I and again I only know five percent of
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: what I wish to learn. And that is what is
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: so fun about the topic of overlanding. There is so
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: much to learn, and we're so grateful for you all listening.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Please send us your feedback and any questions that you've got,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: except for what sized tires and how much lift? If
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: you ask what's the large what's the largest tire I
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: can fit on my Tacoma with no lift, It's a
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: twenty seven point five. That's the answer you're going to get.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: And a picture of Dak I'm going to send you
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: a link that says, let me google that for you.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: So where they where can they reach you? Matt?
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: Which is so I'm on Instagram at Matt Explore and
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: then you're Scott dot a dot Brady on Instagram.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: That is me. Please feel free to reach out. We
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: love hearing from those that listen to the podcast. We
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: are working on and Ask Me Anything episode. So if
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: there are things that you would like to ask us, like,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: for example, what hair products that I use or where
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: does Matt find these beautiful shirts? You can send us
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: whatever questions that you've got and we will do our
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: best to answer them on a future episode. So thank
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: you all for listening and we will talk to you
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: next time. I yes,