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S2E16 - Helping Adopted Siblings Thrive: Play Therapy Parenting Pillars · Play Therapy Parenting: Real Parenting Questions Answered by a Child Therapist

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You're listening to the
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Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
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Hi, I'm Doctor Bruna Hicks, The Kid Counselor.
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This is the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast where I give
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you insight awareness and enlightenment about your parenting
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and your relationship with your kids.
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In today's episode, I am answering a question from Gaer in the UK.
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So hello to all of you across the pond listening. So excited to have you all and Gaer,
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thank you so much for the email.
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And her question is about her two children, three and nine year old boys,
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both who were adopted separately when they were babies
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and they're both starting the play therapy journey. Oh, my gosh, Gaer.
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I'm so so happy to hear
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that you're pursuing play therapy for them.
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I'm so happy to hear that you're all in on,
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on the healing that will come from that.
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And I'm just, I'm really excited for your whole family.
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So that was just a related aside,
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but they're both displaying anxiety.
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They're both struggling acting out in different ways
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and it's causing some disharmony in the family.
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And so I'll read parts of Gaer's email and then
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I'll share some thoughts and obviously,
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you know,
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we all have things that we recognize or creating disharmony in our families.
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Right?
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Sometimes it's attitudes, sometimes it's behavior.
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Sometimes it's the way that things are handled.
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Sometimes it's consistent patterns that are taking place within relationships.
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So I think this will be encouraging all of us
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as we understand her scenario a little bit better.
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So I'll read parts of the email for you.
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Hi, Brenna. I discovered you a few weeks ago. Welcome. So glad that you found us
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when looking for information about play therapy and how to better understand it.
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So as I mentioned, she has three boy, sorry, two boys aged three and nine
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and she says both display anxiety but display it in different ways.
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And then they both have the effects of early life trauma.
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Our three year old is at his developmental
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stage of independence and wanting more control.
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But with extra
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exclamation point
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when upset, frustrated, angry, his first reaction is to punch, kick,
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bite or scratch you.
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This is generally aimed at our eldest son or myself.
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He also wants full control of me and does everything to stop me talking to others.
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But especially my other son,
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I feel I'm losing connection with both of them.
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The violence and dysregulated behavior makes me want to disconnect
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as I am left feeling useless, unseen and emotionally hurt.
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Although I am aware that he isn't trying to be malicious,
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I guess it's just how it makes me feel.
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Then I find that I'm not connecting with my
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eldest because I'm constantly dealing with the youngest.
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I want to start using the four pillars that you talk about.
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But wonder if I should introduce them one at a time, especially after,
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after listening to one of your podcasts about how
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changing just one thing can impact many things.
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Also,
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how do I start to help our three year old understand that his nine
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year old brother is also part of the family and also needs me too.
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I'm working my way through the podcast. I'm finding them really helpful.
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I feel like my main issue is staying regulated in the moment,
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but I'm working on it.
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And then in a subsequent email,
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I want to just highlight a few things that she mentioned.
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She said our youngest is turning four next week
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and talked about them both starting on their play therapy journey.
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And then she said
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it is a full family approach that we're embarking
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on with therapeutic parenting sessions for my husband and I
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as well as us joining in and learning some of
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the play techniques with the boys at different times.
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We feel this will have a big and positive impact on all of us over
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the next 12 to 18 months and we're in it for the long haul.
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Thank you for all you do and the help you are giving
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parents to provide solid and stable family units for our kids.
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Gaer.
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Thank you so much and I'm very appreciative of your vulnerability,
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your willingness to let me read that and share this and
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really help all of us
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work through these types of things because these
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are things that inevitably we all face.
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So
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I really do appreciate you not only emailing but also allowing us
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to get a little peek into what's going on in your family.
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So I'm just going to dive into some of the things that I think are really helpful,
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but I'll kind of tease them for you and then get into them in more specific details.
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So first and foremost,
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I think it's really important for us to
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recognize that your youngest is an externalizer.
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So we'll look at what that means in just a moment.
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Power and control is a huge factor in this.
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So we'll dive into that a little bit more deeply as well
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as far as introducing the four pillars. Yes, you're going to introduce one at a time.
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So we'll talk through what that would look like.
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And I think it's important for you to be mindful of
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the rule of thumb that you need to be a thermostat,
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not a thermometer.
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So we'll dive into that a little bit as well. And then finally,
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you have to be
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aware of what is driving the behavior that the three year old is exhibiting,
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not only toward you but also toward his brother.
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And I would argue that that's jealousy.
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So we'll kind of unpack that together as well.
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The path to calm, confident and in control parenting starts now.
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All right.
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So when we're talking through the behavior of the youngest,
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and it's interesting Gaer,
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because you really didn't,
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you said that both display anxiety,
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but you didn't really get into your oldest behavior at all.
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So that leads me to believe that your youngest behavior is all consuming.
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And that's kind of the
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triage point right now.
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So obviously,
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I think your oldest son is also struggling
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and also probably needs some tips and tricks
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and strategies so that you can effectively help
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with some of his behaviors and anxieties.
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But let's address the youngest, which inevitably I think
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will then probably
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help with the oldest as well by default.
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So here are my thoughts.
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Let's start with the internalizing and Externalizing behaviors
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almost always when you have same sex siblings.
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But even when they're opposite sex, sometimes
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you have
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usually
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an externalizer and an internalizer. And what that means is
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one is going to
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feel emotions in a big way
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and
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not let anyone know.
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So they're not going to display any of their emotions.
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They're not going to talk about any of their emotions.
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They're really not even going to let themselves feel their emotions very much.
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They're going to kind of bottle it up and stuff it and try to ignore it
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and just push it down inside
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and move on from it
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and say,
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ok, this should, you know that this should go away if I just give it enough time,
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the internalizing kids are just as unhealthy as the Externalizing kids.
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But often it's
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not in our awareness that
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it's unhealthy because it doesn't seem like unhealthy behavior.
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If a kid is quiet and calm and regulated
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and doesn't pitch fits and doesn't throw tantrums and doesn't
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yell and doesn't scream and doesn't hurt other people.
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Oh, they're fine.
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They're not,
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they're internalizing everything which is just as unhealthy as the externalizers.
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But usually if you have an internalizer in the family and Gaer,
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I would argue without knowing it.
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I think your oldest son is probably an internalizer.
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Forgive me if I'm making an assumption that's incorrect.
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But that's where my guts going with this.
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So therefore, your three year old has become an externalizer
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because once a role is claimed,
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the next child will actually assume the opposite role.
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So if your oldest is an internalizer
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almost by default, your youngest will be an externalizer,
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which is why you get the hitting, the biting, the kicking, the scratching,
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all of that.
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Why? Because he's feeling the big, big emotions,
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he's overwhelmed just like your oldest is.
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And, and let me, let me make this clear.
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Neither one of them have an emotional vocabulary.
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Neither one of them have emotional IQ right now.
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They don't have coping skills, they don't have regulation,
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they don't have resilience.
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So they're both flailing
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with how big these feelings feel to them.
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But your youngest is going to show you how he's feeling.
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Your oldest doesn't want anyone to know how he's feeling.
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So that is why the three year old is behaving the way that he is. He's an externalize,
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neither is better than the other. They're both equally dysregulated.
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They're both equally unhealthy. It's just a different way of handling emotions
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so that at least will help you understand what's
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going on so that it doesn't seem so personal.
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He is going to show people
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how upset he is, how scared he is, how confused he is, how embarrassed he is,
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how angry he is, whatever is going on,
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he's going to demonstrate it behaviorally.
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All right. So that's the Externalizing piece of this.
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Why is he reacting the way that he is?
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There's also an element of power and control and you touched on that Gaer,
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you said he's wanting more control.
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But with extra
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and when we have a power and control situation,
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it's
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in our awareness or at least it should be,
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kids don't have control over very much.
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So therefore,
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they're going to try to grasp at any measure of control that they can have.
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And in this case, it's
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obedience and behavior.
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So when he's asked to do something or he's expected to do
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something or something doesn't go his way and it upsets him,
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he feels powerful and he feels that he has control
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when he reacts the way that he is,
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especially when he lords power and control over you
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and lords power and control over his older brother.
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Because if he won't let you speak to anybody else, he has the control.
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If he won't let you interact with his brother, he feels a measure of power,
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these are power grabs
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again, it doesn't change the situation, but it helps you understand the why.
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So we have an Externalizing child that's power hungry.
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All right. So that at least sets the stage for
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understanding what's going on
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now
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as far as implementing the four pillars.
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Yes, absolutely. You should start implementing them. But one at a time
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and the easiest one to start with is always reflecting feelings.
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So for any of you out there that have been tossing around the idea
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and considering the notion of starting to
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implement the four pillars in your parenting
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do so, but do it in a systematic fashion. One at a time
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when I coach parents in the 10 week coaching program,
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we always start with reflecting feelings
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because that is something that you can do all day every day.
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And it's something that is actually a precursor to some of the other pillars.
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So start with reflecting feelings and Gaer. In your case,
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both of your boys really do not have an emotional vocabulary right now.
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So the more you reflect their feelings to them,
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it will help your oldest actually start
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to understand feelings and express them effectively.
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It will help your youngest understand
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feelings and rein in the Externalizing behavior
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and he'll actually start to communicate his feelings in more appropriate ways.
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So they will both find a balance by the fact that you start reflecting feelings.
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All right.
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And then
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what
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I think your question was,
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I have to go back and actually make sure I'm quoting this correctly.
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How do I start to help our three year old understand that his nine
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year old brother is also part of the family and needs me too.
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Ok.
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So I know I just said you're gonna start with
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only one of the four pillars which is reflecting feelings,
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but I'm sort of going to break that rule
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to answer that specific question. How do I help our youngest?
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Understand that the older brother is part of the family and needs me too.
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You're going to set limits.
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So
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I'm going to call your kids, Jack and Jim. Ok.
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Not, wow, those are both
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alcoholic drinks and I didn't mean to do that,
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but I was thinking of two J names and those came out, but we're going with Jack and Jim.
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OK.
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So
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we have
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Jack is the oldest, Jim is the youngest. All right.
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So what you're going to say is Jim, you really want my attention right now.
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But I'm talking to Jack and Jack's my son and Jack wants me to
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pay attention to him just like you want me to pay attention to you.
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You can choose to wait until I'm done.
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Or you can choose to listen to what we're talking
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about and then I'll be able to talk to you
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and it doesn't have to be those choices that was just off the cuff.
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I'm just throwing out scenarios.
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But notice that you're going to go through
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the three steps of the limit setting process,
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you're going to reflect his feeling,
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you're going to set the neutral limit
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and you're going to provide choices.
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So you can choose to wait until I'm done.
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And then you can choose to tell me whatever you'd like
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or you can choose to listen to our conversation
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and you can be a part of what we're talking about too and then I can talk to you,
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ok?
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And it, those are not absolutes.
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You could say you can choose to go talk to daddy,
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you can choose to read a book while I'm talking to your brother, whatever.
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There's all kinds of alternatives, right?
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But the point is you're going to start setting limits. And
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I'm not saying this is true for you Gaer.
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I just know that this is often true for parents.
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Babies. Get away with a lot.
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And I'm not saying that because I'm an oldest child, although maybe a little bit,
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my brother got away with a ton that I didn't and
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I think I might have a little bit of harbor resentment there.
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But
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I, I'm, I'm really saying this very neutrally. I promise you
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babies get away with a lot
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and we often go,
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well, you're older,
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you should know better or you know that he's only three and
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he doesn't know yet and he's not trying to be rude.
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He's not trying to hurt you.
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We just have to understand this is where he is developmentally.
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We make all kinds of excuses for babies
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and the reality is he's almost four.
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He is fully capable of complying with limits.
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He is fully capable of understanding boundaries.
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He is fully capable of owning the outcome of the choices that he makes.
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So
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there does not need to be concessions made for the fact that he's little,
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there does not need to be concessions made for the fact
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that he's the baby and the older brother is significantly older,
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you know,
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a six year gap that changes things because if you had a three and a five year old,
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they're much more developmentally aligned. A nine year
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old, it's easy to expect them to be the mature, responsible one,
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but that's not fair.
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Accountability works for everyone in the family,
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including a three year old.
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So if you're three year old, let's go back to Jim
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if Jim, if you give that limit
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and he still is hounding you
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and not letting you talk and insisting on
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your attention and trying to control everything.
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After you've set a limit three times, you move to an ultimate limit,
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which is
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Jim. You really want me to talk to you right now. But I'm talking to your brother.
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If you choose to interrupt one more time,
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you choose to go to your room for five minutes
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so that I can finish talking to your brother.
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But if you choose to quietly wait until we're done,
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you choose to not have to go to your room.
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Which do you choose?
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Now again,
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that may not be practical. That may not be the ultimate limit that you would give.
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I'm just throwing out an example.
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But notice that the outcome
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is that he is choosing to not be in the room anymore. Therefore, he gets no attention
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and he is seeking attention,
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the control, the power, the jealousy,
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the refusal to let you have any attention with his brother.
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It's all for attention.
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If you take that out of the equation
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and he chooses, notice that that's very important,
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you're not forcing him to his room.
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He's choosing to go to his room.
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There's no burden on you.
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There's no guilt, blame anything
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you chose
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to interrupt. So you chose to go to your room.
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That's his choice, not yours. You would have chosen for him to stay out there.
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OK? So don't own that, that he needs to own that.
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But here's the power of that. It takes away
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all of his attention seeking ability.
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If he's in his room,
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he doesn't have any way to get your attention.
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Same thing with the physical aggression.
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If he chooses to be aggressive to you or his brother.
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It's an ultimate limit after you've set the limit three times,
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Jim, you're really angry and you're trying to show us how angry you are,
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but we are not for hurting.
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If you choose to hurt us again, you choose to go to your room.
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If you choose not to hurt us, you choose to stay out here with the family,
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which do you choose?
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And if he chooses to bite or kick or scratch or hit or whatever else he might do,
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then you very calmly say,
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Jim, I see you've chosen to go to your room because you chose to hurt your brother.
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Now this falls apart Gaer
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and all of the rest of us,
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this falls apart
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if what he chooses is not enforced.
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So it doesn't matter how big of a tantrum he throws,
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it doesn't matter how loud he screams, doesn't matter how long he cries,
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doesn't matter what he just tries to destroy in his bedroom.
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None of that matters. You do not back down
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on the consequence that he chose. Now he's just turning four.
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He may only be in there for three minutes
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with you
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looking through the crack in the door to make sure that he's safe.
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He doesn't have to be fully isolated.
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But the point is you enforce the outcome that he chose
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because it falls apart
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without you being consistent and enforcing it.
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So stalwart yourself, prepare yourself,
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put your armor on know that it might be disaster.
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But here's the beauty of this process.
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When we get to ultimate limit setting with our kids,
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it only takes once or twice
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for them to realize.
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Ok, that was not worth it. I'll just stop hitting my brother.
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So it might be really ugly one or two times,
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but it won't be ugly forever. And guess what?
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He will choose to stop hitting his brother.
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He will choose to stop hitting you.
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He will choose to stop interrupting and wanting to have all the power and control.
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It's self
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regulation.
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You're not forcing him to do it. He's choosing to do it. Why?
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Because he did not like the outcome that he chose when he chose to go to his bedroom
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by himself for three minutes alone,
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which to a three year old pretty much feels like an eternity.
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Ok?
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And then my final thought,
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you said that you are working on staying regulated and that is really difficult.
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But you're trying,
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here's one final thought for you to encourage you
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be a thermostat, not a thermometer.
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We've talked about that in our rules of thumb
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as either one of your boys
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start to get emotional.
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So they start to get sad, they start to get excited, they start to get angry,
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they start to get overwhelmed.
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It doesn't matter
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the
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the gauge is rising or falling. Ok?
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That would be the thermostat, the mercury, right?
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It's going to increase or decrease.
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We have a tendency as parents to match that line for line.
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So as the mercury goes up with the kid, it goes up with us too, as it comes down,
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it comes down.
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The goal from the child-centered approach
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is to be a thermostat.
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Why
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as one gets too hot,
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we bring it down with our calm
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as one gets too
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quiet and distant and aloof and withdrawn
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and pulls away.
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We bring it up a little bit.
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We serve as the moderator.
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Something is too cold. We make it a little warmer.
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If something's too hot, we make it a little cooler.
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We demonstrate for our kids what it is like to regulate.
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Notice that a thermostat allows you to change, it allows you to adjust,
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it allows you to make things more comfortable.
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Thermometer
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measures exactly what it is.
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So if he goes from 0 to 10 in 1.3 seconds,
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you're right there at 10 with him.
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Be a thermostat,
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he ramps to 10.
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You ramp down to one.
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You're cool as a cucumber,
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you're calm as can be.
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You fall back on your pillars, you fall back on your reflective responses.
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Why
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you're modeling for him? What self control looks like
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you're modeling for him, what emotional regulation looks like
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you're modeling for him,
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what it looks and feels like
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to be in control of your behavior.
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We cannot expect our kids
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to stay in control if we can't stay in control.
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That is pretty much impossible
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if we are letting ourselves get out of control.
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How do we ever expect our kids to stay in control?
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I'm actually going to end with a quote that
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my staff shared. We were, we have a group chat where we all share things that
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well, sometimes it's just fun stuff, but sometimes it's clinical as well.
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I wanna read a quote that was shared with me this week from one of my staff members
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and Anna Lisa Carillo said this.
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The quote is, "it doesn't make sense that adults lose control with children
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for losing control
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and then expect children to be able to control themselves"
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when the adult in front of them can't even control themselves.
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Let me read that again.
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It doesn't make sense that adults lose control with children for losing control
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and then expect children to be able to control themselves
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when the adult in front of them can't even control themselves
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y'all. That's why we have to be a thermostat, not a thermometer.
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We show them what self control looks like.
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We show them what self-regulation looks like.
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We show them what moderating the situation looks like
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it's observed, it's learned, it's noticed
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and then it becomes part of what they do.
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That's the beauty of the child-centered approach.
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So Gaer, thank you so much for the email and I really,
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really hope that the play therapy journey is amazing for you all.
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Thank you for letting me share this. I hope that was helpful to all of us.
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There are always, always, always struggles
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when we're dealing with a
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family. It's just the nature of being part of a family.
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So I'm always grateful when you all give me some insight into what's
22:57
going on and you would like some suggestions and thoughts and advice.
23:01
Happy to provide them. Keep the questions coming. I love to hear from y'all
23:05
so grateful for each and every one of you and we'll talk again soon. Bye.
23:08
Thank you for listening
23:10
to the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks
23:14
for more episodes and just subscribe to our newsletter.
23:17
Please go to www.playtherapyparenting.com.