Latest / BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show / What Should I Buy? - The Italian Job Edition

Transcript

What Should I Buy? - The Italian Job Edition · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

• 0:00
  Our panel of break fix Petrolhead are back for another rousing.
• 0:03
  What should I buy?
• 0:04
  Debate using unique shopping criteria.
• 0:07
  They're challenged to find our first time collector, the best vehicle that will make
• 0:11
  their friends go, where do you get that?
• 0:13
  Or, what the hell is wrong with you?
• 0:15
  At the next cars in coffee
• 0:19
  for petrolhead of a certain age, the posters on our bedroom
• 0:23
  wall, the dream car, the exotic, the temptress, if you will.
• 0:28
  Those are the cars that corrupted our souls and invited us into the
• 0:32
  enthusiast world for the first time.
• 0:34
  They are defined by painstakingly passionate craftsmen, vehicles
• 0:38
  with luscious curves, exaggerated features, spicy accents, and fiery
• 0:43
  red paint schemes from manufacturers with names that end in vowels.
• 0:49
  But thanks to misconceptions, myths, and limited availability, it's often
• 0:53
  not at the top of collector's minds unless they're willing to take that
• 0:58
  risk or make that plunge into the worlds of Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini,
• 1:03
  and Alfa Romeo to name a few.
• 1:06
  With the help of returning what should I buy?
• 1:08
  Panelists and Italian car owners and experts such as William Ross from the
• 1:12
  Ferrari Marketplace, Chris Bright from Collector, part Exchange, Don Weiberg
• 1:16
  from Garage Style Magazine, along with Petrolhead extraordinaire Mark Shank.
• 1:21
  We aim to prove the naysayers wrong and find you or me the
• 1:26
  perfect Italian collector car.
• 1:28
  That's right.
• 1:28
  Welcome back to the show, gentlemen.
• 1:30
  It's always good to have you.
• 1:31
  Thanks for having us.
• 1:32
  You good to be back?
• 1:33
  It's always good to see me.
• 1:34
  I know.
• 1:34
  I look in the mirror every day and I think, man, if the good
• 1:37
  Lord had created anything finer, he'd have kept it for himself.
• 1:39
  No godsy
• 1:43
  shall I got seat.
• 1:44
  You doing that introduction was cracking me up.
• 1:46
  It's like when you watch the newscaster, it's like, hi, my name's
• 1:50
  Chris Bright and I'm down in Mexico.
• 1:54
  Maserati spaghetti, ma.
• 2:02
  I mean, English is my second language.
• 2:04
  That's all I'm gonna say.
• 2:06
  Clearly it just killed me.
• 2:07
  It's like you're going along and then it's like,
• 2:12
  don't get me started.
• 2:14
  Right.
• 2:14
  I have no bias.
• 2:19
  I am not interested in, you know, those little Italian jobs, William,
• 2:23
  you'll be, you'll be happy to know.
• 2:24
  I have absolutely no ego at all.
• 2:26
  William.
• 2:27
  You'll be very happy to know.
• 2:28
  I have no ego at all.
• 2:29
  None.
• 2:30
  Oh, I can see that.
• 2:31
  Yeah, you're very humble.
• 2:32
  Very humble fish.
• 2:34
  My father was a dictator.
• 2:35
  You know?
• 2:36
  Which side did you take after the dick or the tater?
• 2:39
  I'm the most humble.
• 2:41
  There is no one more humble than, so, you know, I own an for Romeo.
• 2:47
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:48
  And Alfred Mayo got stolen.
• 2:49
  Oh.
• 2:50
  About a month ago, I use it as a daily driver, and some people
• 2:53
  gave me grief about that, and I'm like, fuck you, it's my car.
• 2:58
  One, two.
• 3:00
  I'd rather every now and again, have a little bad happen to it, but be able to
• 3:04
  enjoy every moment with this car, right?
• 3:07
  And let people enjoy it out on the road.
• 3:09
  Like it sparks conversations and all sorts of things everywhere I go.
• 3:13
  I was at the airport, I came back, it wasn't where I left it,
• 3:16
  so I called the police and they thought I was a little crazy.
• 3:19
  But it, here's one thing I learned at the airport, and it's probably
• 3:22
  true at most airports, they go around the entire parking garage and
• 3:26
  inventory every car where it's parked.
• 3:29
  Like they drive a camera car around and they know, like,
• 3:32
  I gave 'em my license plate.
• 3:33
  And they go, yeah, your car's in uh, two F, the second slot in.
• 3:37
  And it's like, no, I'm standing exactly right there.
• 3:39
  And it's not.
• 3:40
  But the fact that they even knew that was a little bit surprising.
• 3:44
  My car got stolen and.
• 3:46
  It got recovered.
• 3:47
  Uh, three days later, a mechanic at a shop that I actually go to was
• 3:51
  driving home and he saw a car that looked out of place where it was, and
• 3:54
  he took a picture and he posted it.
• 3:56
  This Facebook group that chase's stolen cars, it's called PDX, which
• 4:00
  is our airport code stolen cars.
• 4:02
  Guess what?
• 4:03
  My friend, uh, who had had her car stolen, said.
• 4:06
  You should post up there.
• 4:08
  So she said, send me your information.
• 4:09
  I'll do it for you.
• 4:10
  Because I was just kind of pissed off and not happy.
• 4:12
  And she did it.
• 4:13
  So she's the one that actually saved the car.
• 4:15
  I went and I recovered it.
• 4:17
  It was part, actually not in a terrible place, but behind an RV of some people who
• 4:21
  were, you know, partaking of, of the rock.
• 4:24
  The rock that is old.
• 4:26
  Oh, and and what did they want with the sixties era?
• 4:30
  Alpha male, by the way, I don't think they're the ones who stole it.
• 4:33
  I think they're the ones who kind of got it when the people who actually
• 4:36
  stole it, who knew what they were doing.
• 4:38
  'cause you are in an airport that is a highly surveilled place, right?
• 4:41
  Yeah.
• 4:42
  I mean there's cameras everywhere.
• 4:43
  They're taking pictures of you every which way, tollgates and all that
• 4:47
  kind of stuff to get outta there.
• 4:48
  So they went in, they had face masks on and they did it in such a way.
• 4:51
  If you take a ticket and you leave within 10 minutes, 'cause the parking
• 4:55
  lot's full, you don't have to pay.
• 4:56
  So there's no payment required.
• 4:57
  They went in after that inventory, the inventory ends by two.
• 5:01
  My car was.
• 5:02
  Rolling out the gate by two 30.
• 5:05
  So they had maximum time to kind of like before they brought it.
• 5:08
  But what I think they didn't realize is a 1974 Alpha Mayo
• 5:13
  Julius Super is not a valuable car.
• 5:15
  It's just, it's not worth nothing.
• 5:18
  But it's also highly, highly conspicuous.
• 5:21
  'cause within a day I had had an A PB put out to the entire Alpha Club nationally.
• 5:26
  Every member got a note saying, be on the lookout for this car.
• 5:30
  If you see it in Craigslist or whatever, like, hit us back.
• 5:33
  And that all brings me around to what we smoking.
• 5:36
  Well, I now own a crack pipe.
• 5:37
  I have,
• 5:41
  I looked in my glove box the other day when I got my car back and lo and behold,
• 5:45
  there's a nice green crack pipe in there.
• 5:47
  So, oh.
• 5:48
  There you go.
• 5:49
  They took the time to dash it in the glove box.
• 5:51
  It was great.
• 5:53
  Yeah.
• 5:53
  But, but the best part about the crack pipe is the patina Oh,
• 5:58
  the CRO station on it.
• 6:00
  Yeah.
• 6:00
  I mean, you know, it's authentic.
• 6:02
  It, it, it really came, it had some authentic use by a real
• 6:07
  passionate member of that community.
• 6:09
  They're stolen Alpha Rome, Mayo.
• 6:11
  All right.
• 6:11
  All right.
• 6:12
  The inside of my car, they had clearly smoked quite a bit in there because
• 6:16
  Yeah, so I haven't tried it yet.
• 6:18
  In fact, I haven't taken it out yet because I have to get some rubber gloves
• 6:23
  or something to be able to like, I'm not touching that thing and I had to.
• 6:26
  You haven't tried the crack pipe or tried driving your car?
• 6:30
  Not the crack, but I have driven my car, but whenever I lick my fingers
• 6:35
  I get this weird tingly sensation.
• 6:37
  So was there any damage to the alpha?
• 6:39
  Did they try to hot wire it?
• 6:40
  Anything like that?
• 6:41
  Anything that they did, yeah, was with the ignition.
• 6:43
  They put a screwdriver into the ignition and my car, I'm the first
• 6:48
  owner in the us, it had gotten imported in from Italy directly.
• 6:52
  That part is why I haven't had my car until just a couple days ago.
• 6:57
  Like I got it out to my mechanic and it's just taken a
• 6:59
  while for the part to come in.
• 7:01
  And actually the part didn't come in, but he kind of figured out a way
• 7:04
  to hack it by taking in a US barrel and flipping it upside down and
• 7:09
  kind of like hacking it in there.
• 7:11
  I can drive my car until the real part comes in.
• 7:13
  Now I need to go downstairs and get the crack pipe.
• 7:17
  Yeah, I know how your Portland people are Chris, so you know,
• 7:21
  they love the pipe out of context.
• 7:24
  That sounds extremely terrible, but sounds terrible with context.
• 7:29
  So that said, like every good, what should I buy?
• 7:32
  Episode, we have some shopping criteria.
• 7:34
  So we have to kind of let our audience know what the purpose of this episode is.
• 7:38
  And as you guess from the intro, we are focused solely on Italian cars.
• 7:42
  This episode is a long time coming, so we're gonna be discussing
• 7:46
  collectors, sports, cars, and exotics from the country of Italy.
• 7:51
  And we are also gonna be focusing on all different ages of Italian cars.
• 7:56
  So we will span the gamut from pre-war to the modern cars, whatever suits
• 8:00
  our fancy, and we've kind of bucketed things unlike other, what should I
• 8:04
  buy episodes into price criteria.
• 8:07
  So cars under 50 grand.
• 8:09
  Between 50 and 150.
• 8:11
  And then those special vehicles basically going from $150,000
• 8:15
  to Infinity and beyond.
• 8:17
  I would like to add a criteria, just a special criteria if
• 8:20
  anybody wants to size requirement.
• 8:23
  So an Italian car.
• 8:25
  This is gonna be a tough one.
• 8:26
  Red size doesn't matter for a large individual when you, when
• 8:30
  you're my size, size does matter.
• 8:32
  So we're gonna start with that new Ferrari, SUV and
• 8:35
  work backwards from there.
• 8:36
  Is that where we're going?
• 8:37
  Is it made for a small Italian named Antonio?
• 8:40
  Or is it made for a large American?
• 8:43
  Is it for the American market?
• 8:44
  If you're a Girthy boy, don't get the carbon fiber seats.
• 8:47
  They're never gonna work.
• 8:49
  No, no, no.
• 8:50
  I am a girthy boy.
• 8:51
  So Chris, how tall are you again?
• 8:53
  I'm six foot tall.
• 8:54
  Oh darn.
• 8:55
  I thought you were five foot something.
• 8:56
  'cause I was gonna say you're our staple.
• 8:59
  What resident Italian, right?
• 9:01
  Is that like a tender six foot tall?
• 9:03
  Yeah, six.
• 9:04
  Six foot on tender.
• 9:05
  Six foot tall on a box.
• 9:08
  I will say we did allow a special caveat for vehicles that were penned and
• 9:13
  produced by Italian coach Works like Gia and Barona and Pininfarina and others.
• 9:20
  So if you got some odd balls that are Italian adjacent, we're gonna allow those
• 9:25
  into our suggestion pool to get us going.
• 9:28
  Why don't we start on the cheap end of things and talk about some
• 9:32
  Italian collector cars or sports cars under 50 grand, who's got
• 9:35
  something they want us to chew on?
• 9:37
  I was gonna say, I note I, I don't see 10 grand or less on this list.
• 9:41
  Is that even possible?
• 9:42
  Oh yeah.
• 9:43
  Always remember the cheapest exotic is gonna be the most expensive.
• 9:48
  That's it.
• 9:49
  Bar none.
• 9:49
  Like with women, are we talking acquisition price?
• 9:52
  Are we talking acquisition price than what's gonna take to get it to run?
• 9:56
  You know, that's really up to you, William.
• 9:59
  Exactly, because you can fall under that 50 easy, but then, you know,
• 10:02
  you'll be over a hundred on some of these on the ultra low end.
• 10:05
  There's a couple of things down there, like, have you
• 10:07
  ever ridden in an X one nine?
• 10:09
  Yeah.
• 10:10
  Yeah.
• 10:11
  It's like a little go-kart.
• 10:12
  Why not?
• 10:13
  I think I've worn one as a shoe once.
• 10:15
  Yeah.
• 10:17
  You did the t tops out, uh, the passenger seat out and then, um, removed.
• 10:21
  Yeah.
• 10:22
  You know, you could probably even get like a fiat chiquito, one of those itty
• 10:26
  bitty fifties cars, like for around 10 grand if you looked hard enough.
• 10:30
  Are they that low?
• 10:31
  Oh, yeah.
• 10:32
  You know what I love about those little cars?
• 10:33
  Those you say better than me, Chris, the quintos, the five hundreds.
• 10:37
  Every time I've sat in one, I, I really, because of my size, six foot three, 330
• 10:42
  pounds, believe me, I sit in that seat very gently because the way it's put
• 10:46
  together and I just sort of sit there and hope to God he doesn't hit a big
• 10:50
  bump because I'm gonna break that seat.
• 10:52
  That's my big fear.
• 10:54
  And yet I drive a fiat, I have a Fiat, it's a 1 24 spider.
• 10:57
  It's a, well, it's actually one of the worst cars I've ever had, but
• 11:00
  it is a lot of fun and it's like, it's, you know, it, it's wonderful.
• 11:03
  That's not a safety concern off the seat.
• 11:05
  Where to crumple in an accident or anything?
• 11:08
  I mean, is there a single crumple zone on a Fiat 500?
• 11:11
  Well, I, I think if I were in an accident, they would just bury the whole car.
• 11:16
  Yeah, it just becomes your coffin.
• 11:18
  Mm-hmm.
• 11:19
  So what else is in that then?
• 11:20
  Sub $10,000 range?
• 11:22
  Is there really anything out there outside of Fiats?
• 11:24
  I thought the price on the five hundreds had climbed well above 10 K by now.
• 11:28
  When I first moved to San Diego in like oh 8, 0 9, I was shocked by
• 11:32
  what I would see on Craigslist for old alpha GTVs and stuff under 10 K.
• 11:37
  But like that market's dead and gone.
• 11:39
  What about, uh, alpha Rome Maleo, a spider, like a later one from,
• 11:43
  yeah, I was gonna say if you're, if you're willing to put the work
• 11:45
  in it, it'll be needing a lot.
• 11:46
  I think maybe more constructive would be under 20 k. I think you could find
• 11:50
  some really cool stuff under 20 K.
• 11:52
  That's a good one.
• 11:52
  And, and we create these big buckets.
• 11:54
  There's a huge difference between 20 K and 50 K. Yeah, sure.
• 11:57
  You know, that's a new, it's a new car in between those two.
• 12:00
  If you're in that 15, 20 range, a lot of the major stuff's gonna be done.
• 12:03
  So it's probably just little things.
• 12:05
  It's gonna have to be done to it to really make it acceptable to drive, you know,
• 12:07
  you're not gonna be talking major body work, engine out or anything like that.
• 12:10
  Work-wise.
• 12:11
  So if you get up there, you can have a, probably have a car that you
• 12:13
  could drive as soon as you got it.
• 12:15
  You just have to do basic stuff to it.
• 12:17
  Oh, so you've clarified Chris's $10,000 car because he said I could
• 12:21
  buy an Italian car for 10 grand.
• 12:22
  I mean, I don't know what I was getting Fred Flintstone mobile.
• 12:24
  'cause the floorboards are rotted out.
• 12:26
  You get an Italian paperweight for 10 grand,
• 12:30
  put it out on the lawn to piss off the neighbors, you know?
• 12:33
  Yeah.
• 12:33
  I get it.
• 12:34
  Goes back to say the account.
• 12:35
  Okay.
• 12:35
  You're gonna buy, is it the cost of just when you buy it,
• 12:38
  not including working on it.
• 12:40
  You include everything, I guess.
• 12:41
  It's all how you perceive it.
• 12:42
  I agree with, you know, under 20 grand you can find some decent stuff out there that
• 12:46
  you could drive as soon as you get it.
• 12:47
  Gonna have some nice patina to it, what's gonna have character to it.
• 12:50
  But you're gonna be able to drive it and not have to worry about it.
• 12:53
  You could leave it at the airport and let someone borrow it for a few days and smoke
• 12:56
  some crack in it and not worry about it.
• 12:59
  That story's never gonna get old.
• 13:01
  You're gonna get a sweet pipe at the end of it.
• 13:03
  Exactly.
• 13:03
  You get a partying gift.
• 13:05
  It was like in the bottom of the, of the cracker jack box.
• 13:08
  It's like, Ooh, I got a problem.
• 13:12
  I like your recommendation.
• 13:13
  'cause the X one nine was definitely on my list.
• 13:15
  I love those cars.
• 13:16
  A lot of people are like, it's the slowest car on the planet.
• 13:19
  If you're hoping to do burnouts at a traffic light, it might take
• 13:22
  20 or 30 minutes to get that done.
• 13:25
  I mean, it's not a fast car, but they're definitely fun cars.
• 13:28
  And it's the Italian MR two or I'm sorry, nine, 14 or all of those things.
• 13:34
  Right?
• 13:35
  All those, yeah.
• 13:36
  Or the Fiero.
• 13:37
  You have just blessed feed.
• 13:40
  That's what I'm here for.
• 13:41
  I thought that's what you wanted me here for.
• 13:43
  Mark hit on a good point.
• 13:45
  Cars under 2025 grand is probably more reasonable because you are, and
• 13:49
  to Williams point, you're gonna find things that are fixed up at that
• 13:52
  point that are gonna be runners.
• 13:53
  They're gonna be drivers.
• 13:54
  You're gonna have a lot of fun with them in that category for a while.
• 13:57
  'cause we were seeing the show up at the track, it might have been one
• 14:00
  individual or more, but the Maserati Cupe the two door, not to be confused
• 14:05
  with the Quattroporte, which is the four door was always right around 25
• 14:09
  grand and it was like the baby Ferrari front engine rear drive paddle shifters.
• 14:15
  But for 20 5K, it was a great car that has the uh, Ferrari V eight in it.
• 14:21
  Correct.
• 14:21
  It does have the far view.
• 14:22
  I had a friend with a grand sport.
• 14:24
  God, that thing was expensive to own.
• 14:26
  It's got a single clutch automated manual that really dies quick.
• 14:30
  The grand sport was just the continuation of that copay A couple years later,
• 14:34
  I think the grand sport looks better.
• 14:35
  I mean, you could find 'em real cheap and I don't doubt that you can find
• 14:39
  one 20 5K, but if I were buying that car, I would be prepared to set aside a
• 14:43
  significant amount of money, a significant maintenance budget right there.
• 14:46
  You're getting right back into the whole conversation of the
• 14:49
  cheapest exotic is going to be your most expensive one down the line.
• 14:52
  That's just kinda the way it works out.
• 14:54
  I mean, it depends on what you're doing.
• 14:56
  Like if it's a 1500 mile a year car you're just taking out on Sundays to
• 15:00
  have fun with, that's a different story.
• 15:02
  Like if you're trying to really drive it, my friend used it as a daily driver.
• 15:05
  It's horrible.
• 15:06
  And that was one, it was relatively new.
• 15:08
  It was only a few years old at that point.
• 15:09
  We got into this kind of debate when we did the collector
• 15:13
  car muscle car classic car.
• 15:15
  In that episode, we kind of debated what those terms mean.
• 15:18
  Are we saying that all Italian cars are exotics?
• 15:22
  No, no, no.
• 15:23
  'cause this episode I think is, is about Italian cars in general.
• 15:27
  So you can say some cars that aren't necessarily exotics.
• 15:29
  They're just, they just happen to be Italian.
• 15:32
  They're all imports.
• 15:33
  We can say that.
• 15:34
  We did also say classics.
• 15:36
  Yes.
• 15:36
  So that's like a Fiat 1 24 in my opinion.
• 15:39
  That's a sports car.
• 15:40
  That's a Roadster, right.
• 15:41
  It competes right alongside of Triumphs and Mgs and all those kinds of cars.
• 15:44
  That's what it was designed to do.
• 15:46
  And classic cars would be like Chris's super Julia, where it's not necessarily
• 15:52
  like a, you know, Zagato or a two 50 short body or something like that.
• 15:56
  But it's still, it's a classic.
• 15:57
  It's from that 50, 60 seventies era of Italian cars that needed to be
• 16:01
  brought over to the states or probably a handful that were brought here.
• 16:04
  So I think we can kind of split hairs on that, but to me exotic means super cars.
• 16:09
  We're talking Lamborghini, Tage, Testa, F 40, stuff like that.
• 16:13
  That's an exotic Right.
• 16:14
  But for this episode, just Italian cars in general.
• 16:17
  Yes.
• 16:17
  And Italian cars all, if someone wanted to bring over a, a
• 16:20
  fiat panda, that's fair game.
• 16:21
  That's a classic.
• 16:22
  And yes.
• 16:23
  And you can get that for less than 10 grand.
• 16:25
  So points to you.
• 16:26
  Right?
• 16:27
  Yeah.
• 16:27
  Just saying the same thing when he said Panda Chris, Chris is like
• 16:30
  throwing up in the back of his throat.
• 16:33
  I couldn't have disagreed more.
• 16:36
  Oh, but please do.
• 16:37
  Tell me what, I think Chris wants to come back when we get
• 16:40
  to the more expensive stuff.
• 16:41
  I think that's Chris's 14.
• 16:43
  No, no, no.
• 16:43
  I think I disagree, but you know, I, he, we don't want to
• 16:47
  talk about just ordinary cars.
• 16:48
  That's very true.
• 16:51
  I came here with some weird stuff.
• 16:53
  I'd expect nothing less from Don.
• 16:56
  Does it go in a pipe?
• 16:57
  Camera on, right, Don?
• 17:00
  Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 17:01
  I come from, you know, weird stuff, so I'm just gonna barf it
• 17:04
  out there and you guys do what you want with it and that it's done.
• 17:06
  It's, it's on the table.
• 17:07
  But I, I'll tell you, I, I came here with a couple of weird oddballs that were,
• 17:11
  uh, penned or built or partially built, or whatever you wanna say in Italy.
• 17:15
  One of them, because Eric put it on an email, was the Volvo, not the P 1800.
• 17:21
  That's a car that, it's a great car, whatever you wanna say about it.
• 17:24
  I was always a fan of the seven 80 Coupe.
• 17:28
  Came out in about 1986 in Europe.
• 17:30
  It hit the United States, I believe in 87, and it lasted with us until about 91.
• 17:35
  What was interesting to me about that car, if, if I'm not mistaken, that
• 17:39
  car was not only designed, but it was also built by Penn and Farina.
• 17:43
  And even though the car's, body panels look exactly like what you find on a
• 17:47
  seven 40 or a seven 60, nothing, nothing lines up with those sedans, nothing.
• 17:53
  They're completely independent.
• 17:55
  It's just in the chassis of the motor.
• 17:57
  All that stuff is standard Volvo.
• 17:59
  I always thought those were an amazing car, but I like Volvos and a lot of
• 18:03
  people don't 'cause they're just too boxy.
• 18:05
  So if y'all want to chew on that, that's great.
• 18:07
  Or do you want me to bring in the other weirdos?
• 18:09
  That's a good weirdo because you're right.
• 18:11
  But there was also a Barona Volvo later too, wasn't there, where they went back
• 18:16
  to the Italians and asked them to design another Volvo before the seven 80 in,
• 18:21
  uh, late seventies, early eighties.
• 18:22
  They had the 2 62, I wanna say, was the number, and it had a vinyl top and
• 18:28
  it looked like it was a chopped top.
• 18:30
  It was squashed down typical Volvo brick of shape, but it looked
• 18:34
  like the two 40 sedan that had been heavily, heavily customized.
• 18:38
  That was actually, I don't wanna say the first, but in terms of this modern
• 18:42
  coupee look, that was the first one that Volvo worked with Bertoni on.
• 18:46
  Then they came out with a seven 80 later on in the eighties, which was
• 18:49
  a, in my opinion, a sharper car.
• 18:51
  But the 2 62 was also yeah, designed by, in both cases.
• 18:55
  Try to find one.
• 18:56
  Yeah, try to find one.
• 18:58
  They are rarer than he's teeth.
• 19:00
  Especially if you say to yourself, well, you know, I want one, but you
• 19:03
  know, I, I got a budget of 15,000.
• 19:05
  Holy cow.
• 19:06
  That is a lot of Volvo coup because nobody wants them.
• 19:09
  They're just not that much money.
• 19:10
  They don't, they're not quick.
• 19:12
  They're not fast.
• 19:13
  They're really for oddball person who just likes weird styling.
• 19:18
  They like weird stuff.
• 19:18
  They like stuff that you don't see every single day.
• 19:21
  When you go to an Italian car show, if you pull up in a Volvo and they
• 19:24
  let you in, you can be pretty safe.
• 19:27
  You're gonna be the only one there just because there
• 19:29
  just weren't that many built.
• 19:31
  There aren't that many left around.
• 19:33
  And fortunately or unfortunately, those Volvos were treated like most
• 19:37
  Volvo customers treat a Volvo, which is, I drive it every single day.
• 19:41
  It's my only car.
• 19:43
  It's gonna get two, 300,000 miles by the time it gets there.
• 19:47
  If they've taken care of it, yes, being a Volvo, it'll still stand the
• 19:50
  test of time, but it's still gonna be.
• 19:52
  Pretty tired at that point.
• 19:54
  So you're gonna start sinking money into it.
• 19:56
  And believe me, you haven't lived until you've sunk money into an old Volvo.
• 19:59
  They suck money better than an old Maserati.
• 20:02
  Trust me that they do.
• 20:03
  I could come with better suck analogies than that, but we'll take a pass on that.
• 20:08
  You know, to me, I think we started at the lower end of the scale.
• 20:11
  I, I think that's interesting.
• 20:13
  But in Italy, they have.
• 20:15
  And I already mentioned the chiquito and things like that and I really liked
• 20:19
  the suggestion that came up earlier.
• 20:21
  'cause I was driving a 1989 Alpha Romeo Spider the other
• 20:24
  day and that is a cool engine.
• 20:27
  It's an inline four double overhead cam chain driven cams.
• 20:32
  And they use that engine for 60 years.
• 20:34
  I mean that same inline four starts in the seven fifties in the 1950s
• 20:40
  and finally sunsetted, I think in the nineties at some point.
• 20:43
  It really went for many, many, many years.
• 20:46
  It's a fun car.
• 20:48
  It's not very expensive to own if you're in the affordable into things.
• 20:52
  I think Alpha is probably the the standard because they're pretty easy to fix.
• 20:59
  You can literally disassemble the engine with a set of Allen keys and a set of
• 21:03
  metric wrenches and you're good to go and the parts are accessible, the parts
• 21:08
  are plentiful and they aren't expensive.
• 21:10
  My car that we were talking about is a really cool car.
• 21:13
  It's a Julius Super.
• 21:14
  For those who aren't so familiar with it, they were all on the same platform.
• 21:18
  And there's the two-door coupee, which is the GTV.
• 21:22
  There's the spider, which is the two-door open top, and then
• 21:25
  there's the four door bar, which is the Julius Super, which I own.
• 21:30
  But I've also owned GTVs and like anything in.
• 21:34
  In that category from the seventies, has character for days
• 21:39
  and is maybe at the high end.
• 21:41
  You're getting up into the forties, but are very accessible in the 20 to 35 range.
• 21:46
  Like a really good GTV will be up in the mid forties.
• 21:50
  But a driver GTV, you can get in the low thirties right now.
• 21:54
  It's a beautiful baroni body.
• 21:56
  It's one of my all time favorite bodies of any car period.
• 22:00
  And it comes along with the notion of do you want a car with a ton of horsepower
• 22:05
  that you can't use or do you want an underpowered car that you can throw
• 22:08
  around on some roads and have a good time and not get in trouble with these?
• 22:11
  Fall into that category.
• 22:12
  It's like I was on a core tour last week driving my super and I was working
• 22:17
  hard to, to keep up with everybody 'cause they had more powered cars.
• 22:20
  But I was having more fun, I can promise you.
• 22:22
  And not getting in any trouble.
• 22:24
  Don brought up a good point.
• 22:25
  So first of all, I know Chris and I are a little in, but I agree
• 22:29
  with everything you just said.
• 22:31
  Just a, just a little, I'm just gonna throw that out.
• 22:32
  I agree with everything Chris just said.
• 22:34
  Hug.
• 22:35
  Oh.
• 22:36
  Going back to Don's comment real quick.
• 22:38
  I was going in the other direction with this.
• 22:39
  Are we trotting out anything Panina or, or Brion ever designed
• 22:43
  as a potential Italian exotic?
• 22:45
  Are we, are we shopping Cadillac Antes and shit?
• 22:48
  I mean, that's an interesting call, but I think what we're we're trying
• 22:51
  to do is scratch and itch, right?
• 22:53
  We've got our first time collector, like always for these,
• 22:56
  what should I buy episodes?
• 22:57
  Sure.
• 22:57
  Who goes, you know what?
• 22:58
  I don't want a Mercedes.
• 23:00
  I don't want a Porsche.
• 23:01
  I don't want, um, a hot rod.
• 23:03
  I wanna buy an Italian car.
• 23:05
  What should I buy?
• 23:05
  We need to hone in on, on what that is.
• 23:08
  I think there's some quintessential like starter Italian cars.
• 23:11
  Like we could just throw out Ferrari 3 0 8.
• 23:14
  Okay, great.
• 23:15
  The 9 44 of, of Italy, right?
• 23:17
  And Alpha Romeo's to Chris's point, it's like the BM BMW of Italy, right?
• 23:21
  You're like, if you want a three series buy an Alpha Romeo, GTV, you know?
• 23:24
  So there's sort of these equivalencies when we boil it back, but people
• 23:28
  don't realize that about those cars.
• 23:30
  It's where you start to get off the deep end.
• 23:32
  To Don's point, there's these coach builders that were making cars for other
• 23:36
  people under different brands, whether they're Bert 20 or Pina or whatever.
• 23:40
  But then you kind of go the other way too, and it's like.
• 23:44
  Have you thought about an Alpha Milano or a 1 64 sedan or a launch of Delta?
• 23:50
  Some were available in the States, some are now available Gray Market because of
• 23:55
  the statute of limitations being lifted.
• 23:57
  And then obviously we wanna talk about the high end collector, right?
• 23:59
  The guy that's already got 50 cars and goes, I need to add one more.
• 24:03
  And it's gotta be an Italian.
• 24:04
  And obviously we're gonna defer to William and his expertise on that as we
• 24:07
  get to that part of the conversation.
• 24:09
  So I think we need to hone in on where do we live and then where do we adventure
• 24:13
  to, if we're gonna be talking for that individual that's looking to buy
• 24:17
  their first one or buy their 50th one.
• 24:20
  It's that question you always ask that person when they're looking about, well,
• 24:23
  what are you going to do with the car?
• 24:25
  All of us can sit here and talk cars for days and everything.
• 24:28
  Obscure ones this and that, and they, the little minute things about it.
• 24:31
  What's fun about it when it boils down to when someone's gonna buy
• 24:33
  the car, it's like, Hey, what is your intent goal for this car?
• 24:35
  And what do you wanna achieve with it?
• 24:37
  Are you gonna wanna do it to go to car shows?
• 24:38
  Are you gonna wanna, you know, are you gonna go cross country?
• 24:40
  I mean, what are you gonna do with the car?
• 24:42
  Because I think that can dictate to a lot too, with what you're gonna buy the
• 24:46
  X one nine, you're gonna buy that thing.
• 24:47
  You're not gonna be taking a lot of luggage in that
• 24:48
  thing, going very far in it.
• 24:50
  No, you're gonna be jotting around on the weekend here, going to a car
• 24:52
  show that's maybe only 30 miles away.
• 24:54
  Or are you gonna want something that's four door's, got a trunk and you're
• 24:56
  gonna be able to go drive somewhere.
• 24:57
  You can drive 8, 10, 12 hours in it, go somewhere with the
• 25:00
  family, your kids or whatnot.
• 25:02
  So, I mean, I think that's the question they ask too, is what
• 25:04
  is your intent with the car?
• 25:06
  Yeah, that's a good point.
• 25:07
  So let's start with the cruiser slash cars and coffee guy.
• 25:10
  What does he or she buy rather?
• 25:12
  Is the person flashy or they wanna be understated?
• 25:15
  I think the cars and coffee guy wants to be rare.
• 25:18
  The cars and coffee guy would like to be the only one in the parking lot.
• 25:21
  Right, I agree.
• 25:22
  So that's where you start looking at Lancia.
• 25:24
  'cause you don't see those at cars and coffee too often.
• 25:27
  The quantities are so low.
• 25:28
  Some of the older Maseratis where the quantities are so low
• 25:31
  or they sold in the hundreds.
• 25:33
  I think that stuff is really interesting for that person.
• 25:35
  But which, right, because the lancias, you could be all over the map on those.
• 25:39
  The Maserati, are we talking about the coupe?
• 25:41
  Are we talking about a morra?
• 25:42
  Ss? Are we talking about, you know, one of the ghibli's or whatever?
• 25:46
  I mean it, we're all over the map with these cars.
• 25:48
  And I think that's the problem with the Italian cars.
• 25:51
  They're so frenetic.
• 25:53
  There's not that consistency that you find in the German cars where there's
• 25:56
  just these evolutions, these legacies.
• 25:59
  And it's just like the Italian's just like.
• 26:01
  Today I felt like designing the Alpha 33, boom, here you go.
• 26:04
  And then they move on to whatever their next thing is.
• 26:08
  If you've ever spent any time with the Italian army, you
• 26:10
  know that's how they do it.
• 26:12
  Never spent time with the Italian army on you should it.
• 26:15
  It's fun.
• 26:15
  It'll wake you up.
• 26:16
  It's wonderful.
• 26:17
  And that is how they build cars.
• 26:19
  Just like you said this morning, I woke up, I felt like
• 26:21
  building this and there it is.
• 26:23
  And we built three and we moved on.
• 26:25
  Yeah, we move on.
• 26:25
  We go Now, one of my favorite old top gear episodes, 2005.
• 26:29
  I thought of it immediately when you sent out the topic for this
• 26:32
  call was they did Italian mid-engine supercars for under 10,000 pounds.
• 26:37
  Well, great old episode.
• 26:38
  I remember that.
• 26:39
  What did they land on?
• 26:40
  They got a Lamborghini Rocco.
• 26:41
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:42
  Which is now $50,000.
• 26:43
  At least a Maserati.
• 26:45
  Merrick I thought of 'cause you just said it.
• 26:47
  And Ferrari three oh HED 50 Horror.
• 26:49
  Of course.
• 26:50
  Same episode.
• 26:50
  They reviewed the Zanda a, you know?
• 26:52
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:53
  Great episode.
• 26:53
  If anybody wants to go back, I remember that episode.
• 26:56
  It was a good episode.
• 26:57
  The Merrick, to me is like a baby Bora.
• 26:59
  Although the Bora is for what?
• 27:00
  It is relatively affordable.
• 27:01
  Yes.
• 27:02
  It's 150 grand.
• 27:03
  I'm not saying 150 grand is affordable for what it is.
• 27:05
  They made what, like less than 600 of those cars?
• 27:08
  Yeah.
• 27:08
  How many Italian cars?
• 27:09
  They made?
• 27:09
  Less than 600 of can you buy for, you know, 150 grand?
• 27:12
  Not too many, that's for sure.
• 27:14
  So that's actually a pretty good deal.
• 27:15
  But.
• 27:16
  If we take the other side of that, what about a Deto Mazo, Panera American
• 27:19
  muscle under the skin of an Italian car?
• 27:21
  Are we still in the sub 50 k range?
• 27:24
  'cause that's, I think the Mar the Merrick pushes 50 K. You could do that Merrick's
• 27:28
  on the cusp, but the Panera, we gotta save for the middle ground because that's okay.
• 27:33
  50. The Panera grew up.
• 27:35
  That's fair.
• 27:36
  I remember the Panera, you could buy 'em all day long for 10 to
• 27:38
  15,000 in really nice shape.
• 27:40
  And then it was like one day overnight.
• 27:42
  Bam.
• 27:42
  60 grand.
• 27:43
  I said, whoa, whoa.
• 27:44
  Where'd that come?
• 27:44
  And then it, they keep on going.
• 27:46
  It's insane.
• 27:47
  They turned up in a fast and furious not too long ago too.
• 27:50
  Um, I can't remember the ruiner of car values.
• 27:55
  I thought that was bring a trailer.
• 27:56
  I wanna throw this out there just 'cause here I go again.
• 27:59
  You know, Mr. Malay is here and, and all the oddballs, but we've kind of
• 28:03
  bumped on the ante a little bit and I gotta tell you, yes, I love ante.
• 28:07
  You know the, the, hello, my name is Don.
• 28:10
  I said that sarcastically.
• 28:12
  I know, like I said before, I gotta vomit these out and then
• 28:15
  just see what y'all do with that.
• 28:16
  Next he's gonna say the Chrysler TC by Maserati.
• 28:20
  Yes, yes, yes.
• 28:23
  Didn't Lee Baron, that was designed in over in Italy or something.
• 28:28
  Oh, so terrible.
• 28:29
  Want that car?
• 28:31
  Great.
• 28:31
  They were so awful.
• 28:33
  You had to love them.
• 28:34
  We scared William off.
• 28:35
  William just straight up ran away.
• 28:37
  I think Don is lost.
• 28:39
  We gotta bring you, Don stole your pipe.
• 28:42
  Yeah, stop my crack pipe.
• 28:45
  What I wanted to get at, I remember when those cars were new, the ante
• 28:49
  and the tc, which by the way stood for two costly, if you remember how
• 28:52
  expensive those things really were.
• 28:54
  You know, I grew up around car guys.
• 28:55
  All my dad's friends, they were all car guys and some of them liked
• 28:58
  them, some of them didn't like them.
• 29:00
  But I, I remember one word specifically that always floated
• 29:05
  around both of 'em, which was.
• 29:07
  Poser poser because you have this ante, which was confused.
• 29:12
  Was it an SL competitor or was its own bag of lasagna that's
• 29:16
  trying to compete with what?
• 29:19
  What?
• 29:20
  From Italy is similar to the ante.
• 29:23
  There's nothing, oh, wait a minute.
• 29:25
  Wait a minute.
• 29:25
  Dr. Aya Coka says, hold my chiante.
• 29:28
  Yeah.
• 29:28
  He sends this LeBaron over to Maserati and says, fix it up.
• 29:33
  So they did and they sent it back.
• 29:35
  Some of them had Maserati heads and a five speed manual transmission, and believe it
• 29:40
  or not, those little bastards would cook.
• 29:43
  They could really, really go.
• 29:45
  You had to rev the hell out of 'em, but they would really get going.
• 29:48
  My favorite shoot me now, it was the Mitsubishi V six.
• 29:52
  That was the best of all of 'em, in my opinion.
• 29:54
  If you're looking for a cruiser, it was strong, it was healthy.
• 29:57
  The only problem with it was it was nose heavy.
• 30:00
  That car, you put it into a curve, it didn't wanna do anything.
• 30:02
  But wait a minute, we're talking ante, we're talking tc.
• 30:06
  They're not sports cars.
• 30:07
  They didn't wanna be sports cars.
• 30:09
  They wanted to be kind like poor man, sls, but they were so confused.
• 30:14
  But there's really nothing from Italy that came from them.
• 30:16
  Okay.
• 30:16
  Yes.
• 30:16
  You know my problem.
• 30:18
  I like those cars.
• 30:19
  My question is, you show up to cars and coffees.
• 30:21
  Are you still branded as, oh my God, I can't believe he had the
• 30:25
  guts to bring that thing here.
• 30:27
  What a poser.
• 30:28
  Is he still a poser today?
• 30:29
  Not anymore.
• 30:30
  You're weird, but you're not a poser.
• 30:32
  I'm the only one wearing a Maserati headband, so I'll go with eccentric.
• 30:36
  You're eccentric sex offender watch list.
• 30:39
  But other than that, you know, you're, you're, you're well accepted.
• 30:43
  I just love the fact that Don's pick for an Italian car is an American
• 30:47
  car with the Japanese motor.
• 30:48
  They're all base.
• 30:50
  He's paid.
• 30:51
  Let's look at Don's Volvo.
• 30:54
  He's flag on the play.
• 30:57
  Let's bring this back a little bit because we've skirted around some cars and even
• 31:01
  my list is all over the map because as I was trying to remember, cars that
• 31:04
  were sold in the United States that were purely Italian, the list is pretty short.
• 31:08
  It's actually longer now than it's ever been.
• 31:11
  If you look at all the offerings between Ferrari, Lamborghini, alpha Romeo, and so
• 31:15
  on, back in the day, I've mentioned this before, the Fiat eight 50 rear engine kind
• 31:20
  of beetle like Hillman MP looking thing came in a bunch of different body styles.
• 31:25
  I think those are fantastic little cars.
• 31:27
  Yeah, and if I can, when you go eight 50, you've also got the Moretti.
• 31:31
  You've got a few little coach builders out there who played with the eight
• 31:35
  50 and created their own little demon, and they were fantastically styled
• 31:39
  cars, especially that Moretti coup.
• 31:41
  That thing was beautiful and it was so tiny, and yet 6 3, 330 pounds.
• 31:47
  I fit in those cars very, very well.
• 31:49
  Those are incredible.
• 31:50
  I do throw the alignment out, but I fit in the car and the passenger,
• 31:54
  the passenger also gets thrown out.
• 31:58
  Negative Camber.
• 31:59
  It's all good.
• 32:00
  It's crazy.
• 32:01
  You, you have to counter, uh oh.
• 32:03
  I lost my, I lost my badge.
• 32:05
  Hold on.
• 32:06
  Okay.
• 32:06
  There it is.
• 32:07
  I just taped him on because I wanted to reflect Italian quality
• 32:11
  as well, you know, so I use tape.
• 32:14
  And I put it right there and I have my Ferrari badge over here and my Mara hat.
• 32:19
  I'm good to go.
• 32:20
  So did your shirt come with holes in it from the factory?
• 32:23
  Is that what you're saying?
• 32:24
  Yes, it is factory air conditioning.
• 32:27
  The panels of the shirt misaligned.
• 32:29
  So it's like one, one sleeve longer than than the other.
• 32:31
  That is a true Italian shirt.
• 32:33
  Very exotic.
• 32:35
  There are definitely some defacto Italian cars.
• 32:38
  We've seen more Delta HFS on the shore now They're like these gimme cars like
• 32:43
  the 3 0 8 and some others, you know.
• 32:44
  That's fine.
• 32:46
  There's some other ones that I think we forgot came to the shores, or I've
• 32:49
  mentioned one of 'em before was the launch of Beta Montecarlo, right?
• 32:53
  With the panda front end kind of looks like a DeLorean, it's a
• 32:55
  mid engine two-door sport coop, but you could take that a step
• 32:58
  further and they sold less of them.
• 33:01
  But then you had the scorpion and the scorpion was the Babyo 37.
• 33:05
  So if you're into that like group A, group B rally and you're not interested in a
• 33:10
  hatchback, you know, pinned by juro like the delta, you could look down those other
• 33:15
  avenues of launch A and people forgot that those cars were actually sold here.
• 33:19
  Another one I mentioned before is the Fiat 1 31.
• 33:22
  You could very easily do some Boltons and create your own Abarth.
• 33:26
  You're not gonna have the jackknife flares that the Abarth came with,
• 33:29
  but you can build a little hot rod out of a plain Jane 1 31.
• 33:33
  Mm-hmm.
• 33:34
  Those scorpions are great.
• 33:35
  I, I just got a ride in one the other day and man, very cool styling.
• 33:40
  You know, it's kind of got that group C, group B kind of look and it's,
• 33:45
  it's like a hot hatch type of styling.
• 33:47
  And if I remember they had a detune dino engine in those, just like in the Stratos.
• 33:52
  Yeah.
• 33:52
  Yeah.
• 33:53
  It's a very cool car and very affordable.
• 33:55
  It's easily in this price range of the sub fifties, you know, another
• 33:59
  launch that I think gets very overlooked for people in the know.
• 34:03
  Love it.
• 34:03
  The full Via, yeah.
• 34:05
  Everybody knows the full via from the sixties and seventies.
• 34:08
  Rally car, front engine, front wheel drive.
• 34:11
  They look funny when you open up the hood, if you've ever gotten in one, the,
• 34:15
  the engine is rotated off axis and then flipped over by like about 30 degrees.
• 34:20
  It's cantilevered.
• 34:21
  Yeah, it's laid over just to get the weight down a little bit.
• 34:24
  Very cool.
• 34:25
  You can get those for 30 or less.
• 34:28
  If you look around, you're rolling in a cars in coffee, you'll
• 34:30
  be the only person in Alancio.
• 34:32
  Fulvia for sure.
• 34:33
  What about one of our ugly cars from the uncool wall?
• 34:37
  The Alpha Romeo Sz?
• 34:40
  What are you talking about?
• 34:41
  I love that car.
• 34:42
  It's like the Italian rado.
• 34:44
  Why?
• 34:44
  What's not to like about it?
• 34:45
  It's amazing.
• 34:46
  Why?
• 34:46
  Why would you even call it ugly?
• 34:48
  You're the worst.
• 34:49
  I know.
• 34:50
  I think it's cool.
• 34:51
  A lot of people think it's heinous, especially that back end because
• 34:54
  it's completely slab sided.
• 34:55
  Oh, oh.
• 34:56
  Don's got something to say about that back end.
• 34:58
  Oh no, I, I agree.
• 34:59
  I think it's kind of an ugly car, but I think that's the charm of it.
• 35:01
  It's come full circle.
• 35:03
  It was ugly.
• 35:04
  It was cool for like six months when it was released.
• 35:06
  Very quickly became ugly.
• 35:08
  It has been a very interesting, good looking car.
• 35:11
  I, I think for the last 10 years or so.
• 35:13
  See, and for me, I think it's ugly.
• 35:15
  I do, I think it's a hideous car, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't buy it.
• 35:19
  I mean, I appreciate a car that goes out on its own and says, Hey.
• 35:23
  Look at me, I'm ugly.
• 35:24
  I don't care.
• 35:25
  I love that attitude.
• 35:27
  I love it.
• 35:28
  It's kind of like an American car that was built in Italy with a Japanese engine.
• 35:32
  Oh geez.
• 35:33
  There's something about that that just, you know, to me it just reminds me of
• 35:36
  like a Milan fashion house or something.
• 35:38
  It's like, it was ambitious.
• 35:40
  It was over the top.
• 35:41
  It was oat couture kind of.
• 35:43
  Exactly.
• 35:43
  Car, even in very small quantities.
• 35:46
  And it's very cool.
• 35:47
  You know, it's, but it's a performer too.
• 35:49
  It's got a great engine, good balance.
• 35:51
  Everybody that ever drives one and reviews, it says you don't see it from
• 35:55
  the inside, but it is a driver's car.
• 35:58
  Right.
• 35:58
  So you get that shape in the eighties from the GTV six.
• 36:02
  Yes.
• 36:02
  As well.
• 36:03
  Obviously in more volume than the SC GV six is a great one.
• 36:07
  You, you could, it it's, yeah, it's a, you know, these were the kind of
• 36:10
  cars that like, I did not like them when I was a kid in the nineties
• 36:14
  looking at them, I was like, ah God, that's so eighties and horrible.
• 36:18
  And now I look at 'em and I'm like, ah, it actually looks pretty damn cool.
• 36:21
  The only thing that's really slab sided about the SC is the back.
• 36:24
  Okay.
• 36:24
  The back is just a big flat.
• 36:27
  You know what's funny, I'm with you, mark.
• 36:28
  But on the opposite end of that spectrum that when I saw that car, it
• 36:32
  went immediately on my wall alongside the Viper and a bunch of other cars.
• 36:36
  And I'm like, the SC is amazing.
• 36:38
  But then a year later when they introduced the RZ.
• 36:42
  The Cabrio le, or the spider, whatever you wanna call it.
• 36:45
  Oh my God, that car is aous.
• 36:48
  Take the roof off of that thing.
• 36:49
  And suddenly I'm like, no, thank you.
• 36:51
  Had enough.
• 36:53
  But an underappreciated car, if you're looking for something
• 36:55
  that really nobody wants.
• 36:57
  It's like an uglier ante in convertible form.
• 37:00
  We're gonna keep going back to that, never letting the ante go.
• 37:05
  Today's episode is brought to you by Cadillac.
• 37:10
  The only way to travel is Cadillac style.
• 37:14
  So William, what about it from your experience, what's a bargain basement
• 37:18
  Ferrari that isn't a 3 0 8 or a 3 48?
• 37:21
  What's some of these more obscure ones that people aren't thinking about?
• 37:25
  Well, the fi Dino, that's a good looking car.
• 37:28
  You got the Ferrari engine in it.
• 37:29
  It's just got the got badge on it, but it's fi Dino, that's a great car.
• 37:33
  They're going up in value, that's for sure.
• 37:35
  Again, you're not gonna be killing anybody zero to 60 times
• 37:37
  that, but it's a lot of fun.
• 37:38
  It's a great engine.
• 37:39
  It's a beautiful looking car.
• 37:41
  That would be my thought.
• 37:42
  I was gonna say, I, I've always been a fiat guy ever since I got my 1 24.
• 37:45
  I've loved fiat even before I got my 1 24, I always wanted the Dino Coop.
• 37:50
  I always thought that would've better looking car than the
• 37:52
  convertible, which both people disagree with me on, which is fine.
• 37:55
  I I'm the guy who brought the ante to town, so, you know, what do you want?
• 37:59
  Anyway, where, where I was gonna go with this though was the Dinos
• 38:02
  are kind of going up pretty nicely.
• 38:04
  One car I've always wanted, and here I go again with the
• 38:07
  Volvo styling, the Fiat one 30.
• 38:09
  Do you remember those?
• 38:11
  It's kind of, yeah, it, it, it looks a little bit, honestly like the Volvo
• 38:14
  seven 80 Jennifer nine V six engine, but they were Fiats entree to, we can
• 38:20
  produce something like Alpha Romeo, but we can still do it on a budget.
• 38:24
  They were nice.
• 38:25
  There's two versions of that.
• 38:27
  There's the round headlight early car and the rectangle headlight late car.
• 38:31
  Yeah.
• 38:31
  So if you're into that square body round headlight thing, you could
• 38:34
  go either way with this thing.
• 38:36
  They're pretty cool.
• 38:37
  Yeah, they are.
• 38:38
  And not a lot of people know about them.
• 38:40
  They were never imported to the USA.
• 38:42
  So any one 30 that you see here with brought over by a private person.
• 38:46
  But I, I think, like you were saying, now that the statute of limitations
• 38:49
  is lifted, I don't think that car would have too many problems being
• 38:52
  registered in almost any state.
• 38:55
  I, I really like those cars and I, and I think trying to go back
• 38:58
  to the focus, which is what should I buy for my first collector car?
• 39:02
  As much as I might like the ante and the TC to look really weird.
• 39:06
  I don't want somebody to pull into a cars and coffee and
• 39:08
  think, oh God, what a poster.
• 39:09
  I'd like them to pull into a cars and coffee and have guys around
• 39:12
  and think, whoa, wait, wait, wait.
• 39:13
  Where'd you get that?
• 39:15
  Yeah.
• 39:15
  And that's where that alpha comes in and that's where kind of the fiat comes
• 39:18
  in and you know, these are little odd balls that people don't see every day.
• 39:22
  These are cars that you, you pull into cars and coffee and a lot of
• 39:25
  people will wonder, what is that?
• 39:26
  Oh my god, that's a fiat the Dino people are pretty familiar with.
• 39:30
  But I think those one thirties, I'm not gonna say they're cheap.
• 39:33
  They're certainly not commanding Dino money.
• 39:36
  Yet.
• 39:36
  Yeah, they are going up.
• 39:38
  And I think that has to do with the Dino people who know the one 30, it's not
• 39:42
  a dino, it's not a sports car at all.
• 39:44
  It's a big grand touring car.
• 39:46
  And I think that's where Eric and I kind of have a lot of fun bouncing
• 39:49
  off of each other because he seems to be much more the sports car.
• 39:52
  Get out there and run through the cones and terrify your dog, dog do.
• 39:57
  And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
• 39:58
  I wanna go on a nice leisurely cruise to a restaurant at the beach.
• 40:02
  And that's where we kind of have fun.
• 40:03
  You know, I, I look at these little lancias that you and
• 40:05
  Chris are talking about.
• 40:06
  I'm like, oh my God, that car just looks like a headache to me.
• 40:09
  Good.
• 40:09
  I got another one for you, Don.
• 40:11
  How about the 1 28 3 P?
• 40:13
  That's basically Fiat's answer to the mark one Rocco.
• 40:17
  Yes.
• 40:17
  Yes.
• 40:18
  They were a great car.
• 40:19
  Don't get me wrong.
• 40:20
  All of them that we've talked about I think are terrific cars.
• 40:22
  I, I know Mark, you're gonna keep bringing up the alte.
• 40:24
  My mom had one of those.
• 40:27
  Oh God, I gotta meet your mom.
• 40:31
  You gonna tell you the coolest thing about my mom going car
• 40:33
  shopping with my mom is amazing.
• 40:36
  She walks in and people are like, excuse me, ma'am, you're looking for a car?
• 40:39
  Yes.
• 40:40
  Well, what are you shopping for?
• 40:42
  Uh, I need a car with a manual transmission.
• 40:44
  Uh, what.
• 40:45
  You need a car with a manual transmission?
• 40:46
  Yes.
• 40:47
  I never learned how to drive an automatic.
• 40:49
  Do you have anything with a manual?
• 40:50
  If the answer is no, she turns around and walks out the door.
• 40:53
  That is it.
• 40:54
  That's awesome.
• 40:55
  I learned how to drive an automatic.
• 40:56
  That's awesome.
• 40:59
  That said, going back to William for a second, what was the Ferrari from Rainman?
• 41:04
  Was that a four 12 or something like that?
• 41:06
  A 400, yeah.
• 41:07
  Yeah.
• 41:08
  4 0 400, 4 12. And And know what?
• 41:10
  I'm a big fan.
• 41:10
  I love those.
• 41:11
  I think that's a great car and a lot of people don't like it 'cause of the design,
• 41:15
  but I'm actually a huge fan of that car.
• 41:18
  I think it's fantastic.
• 41:19
  The, the design of that was way ahead of its time when it came out, right?
• 41:23
  Because they made that car forever.
• 41:25
  What, 72 to 89?
• 41:27
  So someone please correct me or what?
• 41:29
  Yeah, 76.
• 41:30
  But you imagine that seeing that car in the mid seventies, that
• 41:35
  was 10, 15 years ahead of its time from a design language perspective.
• 41:39
  Mm-hmm.
• 41:39
  It also made a big movie Reappearance in the Nicholas Cage.
• 41:44
  Unbearable weight of massive talent.
• 41:46
  Yeah.
• 41:47
  He was driving a 400 eye.
• 41:48
  But the four 12, you get 'em with a manual.
• 41:51
  Oh geez.
• 41:52
  I don't know if it fits under our 50 KI was pulling the sales on bring
• 41:56
  a trailer, looking at their charts.
• 41:58
  Unfortunately, the bring a trailer lumps 'em all together.
• 42:01
  You know, from all of the years you kind of have to dig in and, and look at 'em.
• 42:05
  Certainly in that sub 100 K, 50 to a hundred K type range.
• 42:10
  A lot of really interesting options.
• 42:11
  I've got 41 k for, uh, 400 GT in, uh, sports car market.
• 42:16
  The, the big difference is the four 12 was a fair jump and then
• 42:19
  there's whether or not you got the five speed or the three speed auto.
• 42:22
  Yeah, that's up to 80 K now when you get up.
• 42:24
  Yeah.
• 42:24
  If you get the man, it's gonna have a nice, it's gonna have a 20 to 30%
• 42:28
  markup on it with the five speed in it.
• 42:30
  You know what, the automatic's not that big because it kind of goes back.
• 42:33
  You're not gonna throw that thing around some autocross event.
• 42:36
  That's a nice touring car to go for a nice long distance drive,
• 42:40
  pop that thing into drive and just go and cruise at 89 miles an hour.
• 42:43
  And, and nice luxury comfort.
• 42:45
  Right?
• 42:46
  Well, and it's not that I want to go there too far because you start
• 42:49
  stepping in a Ferrari's backyard and it gets real expensive real quick.
• 42:52
  But Ferrari was always brilliant at building for place Coues with
• 42:57
  a V 12 front engine rear drive.
• 43:00
  My God, those cars taught other people how to build a coop.
• 43:04
  I mean they, they were fantastic.
• 43:06
  They would move like bats outta hell.
• 43:07
  But like you said, William, you're not gonna throw it around too
• 43:10
  many curves and corners because that's not what it was built for.
• 43:13
  It was built to take you on a nice long journey.
• 43:15
  It was built to take you over, land it over a hundred miles per hour and
• 43:19
  you didn't know you were doing it.
• 43:21
  God, they were dream cards.
• 43:22
  They really, really were to me, and maybe I'm wrong, but I mean I look at
• 43:25
  the five 50, the 5 75, not that we can bring that into the, our conversation
• 43:29
  because they're still really expensive.
• 43:31
  What fantastic cars, and I'll tell you the one I would, the one I've
• 43:34
  been looking at most recently, not that I'm gonna pull the trigger on
• 43:37
  it, is the uh, 4, 5, 6, the 4 56.
• 43:40
  Yeah.
• 43:40
  Which, and I'll be honest, you know when they were new, I was a 5 50, 5 75 guy.
• 43:46
  By God, that was the end all be all Ferrari.
• 43:48
  That was that.
• 43:49
  This 4 56 can go straight to hell.
• 43:51
  I started kind of growing up a little bit and I realized, God, you know
• 43:55
  that 4 56 has a real nice look to it.
• 43:58
  It was almost like the 5 55 75 was that really hot girl in school.
• 44:04
  You just loved this girl.
• 44:05
  She was smoking hot, but.
• 44:08
  You realize she's a little bit of a pain.
• 44:11
  All the guys want her, but you know, she's got a sister.
• 44:17
  Alright, we, well, let's stay away from the teenage girl metaphors.
• 44:22
  Who said teen?
• 44:23
  Who said, I don't know, I didn't say teen.
• 44:24
  You said school.
• 44:25
  I'm assuming you didn't mean graduate school who went to the team comment.
• 44:29
  But the the point is though, the 4 56 is that quieter, classier sister who you're
• 44:36
  just leaning into this, aren't you?
• 44:38
  Gets overlooked.
• 44:39
  Just gets overlooked, but Oh, I agree.
• 44:41
  Yeah, once you meet her, once you, you know, once you,
• 44:45
  this is where it gets weird.
• 44:46
  I know.
• 44:48
  Never a dull moment with Don.
• 44:50
  Can you move on from the metaphor and talk about the car?
• 44:52
  So anyway, the ante car, can we put a time out and I think you uh, I think
• 45:00
  everybody knows you're gotta buy an ante.
• 45:02
  You're gonna have a Cadillac kind of call.
• 45:04
  You need right there, everyday usage.
• 45:06
  It's quiet, it's conservative.
• 45:08
  And that's why I like the 4 56.
• 45:10
  It's quiet, it's conservative.
• 45:12
  And for me, I gotta get it in.
• 45:14
  I can never pronounce it, but it's basically champagne gold.
• 45:16
  But I don't know, I see those cars as a bargain right now.
• 45:20
  My, oh, they are odd.
• 45:22
  It's a V 12, it's front engine, it's fuel injected.
• 45:24
  It's for place, it's everything.
• 45:26
  The 404 12 I was, and yet because it was ugly.
• 45:31
  The four 12 just kind of lingered in the value.
• 45:34
  Now they're starting to go up, if I'm not mistaken.
• 45:36
  Is that right, William?
• 45:37
  Yeah, they are.
• 45:37
  So, you know, the guys like me, they're becoming unobtainium and yes, the 4 56 is
• 45:41
  still unobtainium, but I look at that and I think, you know what, and correct me if
• 45:45
  I'm wrong, I think that would be a better car, just simply because it's more modern.
• 45:50
  Just the technology, the engineering is there a 4, 5, 6 sold on bringer
• 45:54
  trailer just this week for 60 K?
• 45:57
  That's not bad.
• 45:58
  Was it the automatic or the six speed and it has 25,000 miles.
• 46:03
  Get 'em under 50 If you got the service history, I mean, of course it's gonna go
• 46:06
  with probably, you know, any car you wanna get service wise, but even that 4, 5, 6,
• 46:10
  if it's got 40, 50, even 60,000 miles on it, but it's got the service, everything
• 46:14
  done to it, that's not a problem.
• 46:16
  Right.
• 46:16
  A again, 'cause it's not a car that you're gonna be kind of revving the
• 46:19
  piss out of it and you know, slamming two gears or anything like that and you
• 46:22
  know, you don't have to worry about the automated transmission that it, it's.
• 46:25
  A great car to go for a nice touring car.
• 46:29
  I was gonna say the V 12 on that is supposed to be one of the
• 46:31
  most reliable from that era.
• 46:33
  Yeah.
• 46:33
  Simply because they didn't lean into it as hard as they did on the five 50.
• 46:37
  Right.
• 46:37
  And so to slot it into its product placement, but as a result of
• 46:41
  that, it, you know, doesn't break.
• 46:43
  But there's plenty of these ultra rich Japanese track rats that have
• 46:47
  taken four, five sixes and put 'em on places like UBA and Fuji and other
• 46:52
  and put them against other cars like nine 11 turbos and m threes and stuff.
• 46:56
  And the 4 56 as curvy as she is and everything else, she can hold
• 47:01
  her own against those other cars.
• 47:03
  And I was shocked at some of those videos.
• 47:05
  Granted these are six speed V twelves, not the automatics, but I think
• 47:09
  can scoot and it can handle, I mean it does have some body roll to it.
• 47:13
  I'm of the personality that if I could tighten it up, I
• 47:15
  think it'd be a performer.
• 47:16
  I think it's a, it's one of those wolves and sheep's clothings.
• 47:19
  Yes.
• 47:20
  And Eric, was it you that sent me the video?
• 47:22
  Somebody sent me a video of, and I think they were in Japan and
• 47:25
  it was a 4 56 on a racetrack.
• 47:27
  It was full race prep, 4 56.
• 47:29
  This damn thing is keeping up with an F 40.
• 47:31
  Yep.
• 47:32
  The only challenger to that car is an F 40.
• 47:34
  Yep.
• 47:34
  And as long as she keeps that F 40 behind her, she's fine.
• 47:38
  But sure enough, the F 40 found a way around her and bam, that was it.
• 47:41
  But it wasn't it that 4 56 stayed right on the rear end, dogged them
• 47:45
  the whole way around the track.
• 47:46
  Yeah, it was awesome.
• 47:47
  Incredible, incredible.
• 47:49
  And you think of how much weight the, and granted, okay, they prepped it a
• 47:52
  little bit, so I'm sure it lost a little weight, but it's still just a heavy,
• 47:56
  heavy car compared to an F 40, you would think there's no way this car could hang
• 48:00
  onto it, but sure enough, there it is.
• 48:01
  No, I I, I've really, really started becoming a fan of the, uh, 4 56.
• 48:06
  I really have automatic five speed.
• 48:08
  Doesn't matter.
• 48:09
  I just.
• 48:09
  I was gonna bring this up later, but do we have any research
• 48:12
  on manual swaps for 4, 5, 6?
• 48:13
  Because I think to me, that's the key to a lot of car value.
• 48:17
  In some situations where the manual swap is relatively easy, like an F
• 48:21
  four 30 where you can go in, do it, it's a known quantity, it's not a
• 48:26
  rabbit hole, and then all of a sudden you're just in a totally different
• 48:29
  category from a car value perspective.
• 48:31
  And yeah, sure the market will figure that out, but it's, if you can pick
• 48:34
  up an automatic on the cheap and do a manual swap for 20 grand and then it
• 48:38
  just becomes like a totally different car, I think that's really interesting.
• 48:41
  I'm, I'm with you on that.
• 48:42
  I think at that point it's worth doing if it's doable and there's probably a, a
• 48:46
  high probability that that transmission is probably shared with something else
• 48:51
  and more than likely it's probably a ZF transmission or something, you
• 48:54
  know, that I don't know, that maybe Ferrari built those drive trains or
• 48:57
  maybe they're fiat transits and then we got other things to think about.
• 49:00
  But isn't the automatic a GM unit with the automatic on the 36 from General Motor.
• 49:05
  That I'd have to check.
• 49:06
  You're just trying to bring us back to that freaking Cadillac again, aren't you?
• 49:10
  Speaking of the Cadillac?
• 49:11
  Oh, you know, here we go.
• 49:13
  But there is another car that I wanna bring up for us to chew
• 49:16
  on, and it's my second Miata.
• 49:18
  No, stop.
• 49:20
  It's a weird car.
• 49:22
  It is not Italian.
• 49:23
  It's just as a a Spanish sounding name that said, there is another car.
• 49:27
  It's my second least favorite car on the planet.
• 49:29
  And those of you that listen to the show know my number one least
• 49:32
  favorite car on the planet is the Citron and Ds followed by.
• 49:36
  I was just having one of those.
• 49:37
  What is wrong with you?
• 49:38
  What are you gonna hate?
• 49:39
  A ds?
• 49:40
  God, dude, don't even get me started.
• 49:42
  I hate those things.
• 49:43
  Oh my God.
• 49:44
  You know why he hates the Ds?
• 49:46
  He hates the Ds because it is French.
• 49:48
  My friend.
• 49:49
  He's Italian.
• 49:50
  He has no choice but to hate us.
• 49:52
  We are better than him.
• 49:53
  Truth be told, I have an affinity for French cars.
• 49:55
  There's just something about the Ds that gets under my skin.
• 49:58
  We'll put a pin in that for now.
• 50:00
  My second least favorite car on the planet, second to the
• 50:03
  Citro and Ds is the Ferrari.
• 50:06
  Manal tea.
• 50:07
  And I know you guys are gonna tell me I'm wrong, but yeah.
• 50:10
  So wait, by show of thumbs, like Roman Coliseum style.
• 50:16
  Come down.
• 50:17
  Yeah.
• 50:19
  Now you wait a moment here.
• 50:21
  You wait a moment.
• 50:22
  I am gonna tell you a story, okay?
• 50:24
  Oh man.
• 50:25
  Here we go.
• 50:26
  Story time.
• 50:26
  Get the editor ready.
• 50:28
  I was a hater of the Mondale too.
• 50:29
  I used to hate it all the time, but then I went to Concord to Italiano, and I gotta
• 50:33
  tell you, this is where I was changed.
• 50:35
  There it was sitting on the green, on the field all by itself.
• 50:40
  Dark gray, lightly tinted windows a coop.
• 50:44
  I gotta tell you, I, I was a changed man.
• 50:46
  All the rest of 'em, I don't like, you're right.
• 50:48
  I still don't like the model, but that one painted correctly.
• 50:51
  Wow.
• 50:52
  It actually came out pretty nice.
• 50:54
  So I learned that if you put the right makeup on, an ugly
• 50:57
  person, that can look pretty good.
• 50:59
  A sister you were talking for, geez,
• 51:03
  here's the conundrum with it though.
• 51:05
  'cause that's like a $25,000 car.
• 51:08
  You know, you can get those pretty cheap nowadays and it's basically the
• 51:12
  running gear of a 3 28 or 3 48, right?
• 51:15
  I think it's a 3 48 if I'm not mistaken, is when I thought it was a 3 0 8.
• 51:19
  3 0 8, okay.
• 51:20
  It goes both ways.
• 51:21
  Yeah, it goes both ways.
• 51:22
  You have a 3 0 8 and then the 3 28.
• 51:24
  Yeah.
• 51:24
  Depending on the year.
• 51:26
  So it's got the same suspension, the same engine, the same transmission,
• 51:30
  the same steering box, the same everything except for they wedged
• 51:34
  a little bit more space in there.
• 51:36
  And, and I agree with you.
• 51:38
  I, I know there are not anything to look at, but if you were to just like set
• 51:43
  that aside and go bang for the buck, and I'm not talking about maintenance.
• 51:47
  If it's gonna be a maintenance hassle, then you're in a world of hurt.
• 51:50
  But if you got a good one that was driven and cared for, you get
• 51:53
  that for $25,000 and you can rip.
• 51:56
  You can have a blast in that thing.
• 51:58
  So that's my counter argument.
• 52:00
  But it's still too ugly.
• 52:01
  It's just ugly.
• 52:03
  Yeah.
• 52:03
  I mean, it's a light car, it's got 300 horsepower.
• 52:05
  It, it's gonna scoot.
• 52:06
  You can have fun with it.
• 52:07
  Beauty's in the eye of the beholder.
• 52:09
  I mean, it's one of those situations as it ages, is it gonna
• 52:13
  be more attractive to someone?
• 52:14
  No, I don't think so.
• 52:19
  You know, I gotta, I gotta side with William on that one and, and Chris too.
• 52:23
  You're getting a lot of car for the money.
• 52:24
  You really, really are.
• 52:26
  Okay.
• 52:26
  It's an eighties Ferrari, early nineties Ferrari.
• 52:28
  You are getting quite a bit of, of car for the money.
• 52:31
  And I think the younger generation is gonna embrace those cars.
• 52:34
  You gotta think you, you're going after the rad wood crowd and as the
• 52:37
  3 0 8 3 28 continue to just skyrocket in value, people are gonna start
• 52:42
  looking, well what's the next step?
• 52:43
  And then they'll realize, oh my god.
• 52:46
  The Mondale is pretty much the same car.
• 52:48
  It just got four seats.
• 52:49
  And like I say, I was a chain guy.
• 52:51
  I always hated the Mondale.
• 52:52
  I always thought they were ugly and and horrible.
• 52:54
  But then I saw the gray one, and I'm not kidding you, I'm not joking around.
• 52:56
  When I saw that gray one, I thought, you know, that actually looks really good.
• 53:00
  And I think that's it.
• 53:00
  There are some cars that just have a presence and they, they need to be.
• 53:04
  Painted.
• 53:05
  Seriously, they are you gonna paint a 4 56 bright red?
• 53:08
  I've seen them, they look okay, but in my opinion, they look a lot
• 53:11
  better when they're blue or dark gray or that silvery gold color.
• 53:15
  They have to have a sort of a businessman's presence to them.
• 53:17
  And I think the mania was trying to do that, but it just sort of failed
• 53:21
  because people wondered what is this?
• 53:23
  This is like the LeBaron of the Ferrari world.
• 53:25
  Speaking of which, Chrysler had a car called the tc.
• 53:28
  Oh my God.
• 53:29
  No, I'm kidding.
• 53:30
  But, but to that end, since Don has established that all Italian cars are
• 53:35
  female, no, they're all high school girls.
• 53:37
  Apparently, unlike his painting of the flowing blonde hair, the LT upon
• 53:43
  the prairie grasses of the car show, where I got impressed upon the Mondi
• 53:48
  LT was with the movie Weird Science.
• 53:51
  And I'm like, oh, that's cool.
• 53:52
  It's a Ferrari.
• 53:53
  But when it pulls up next to the 9 28, I was like, you can
• 53:57
  keep that turd like mm-hmm.
• 53:58
  And the nine 20 eight's a weird car, right.
• 54:01
  By all respects and all means, but when you put them side by side, both
• 54:04
  iconic cars of the period, you're just like, nah, there's other ways I can
• 54:08
  spend 25 grand than on a Monday lt.
• 54:10
  True.
• 54:11
  But then you're getting back to guys like me who wanna be a little bit
• 54:14
  different, a little bit out there.
• 54:15
  Here's my question for you, and I'm not trying to bring them back into it, mark.
• 54:19
  I want you to answer this because you seem to be the number one hater.
• 54:24
  Hater.
• 54:24
  I'm a hater of the ante.
• 54:26
  You seem to feel toward the ante as, oh man, as Eric does
• 54:28
  toward the, the Citron Ds.
• 54:30
  I never got to see a good Cadillac there.
• 54:32
  It was post malaise my whole life.
• 54:35
  Which one is more poser?
• 54:36
  The mondal, the ante or the t?
• 54:38
  Which one is more poser.
• 54:40
  I've never known a person who owned an ante that didn't
• 54:44
  love the hell out of that car.
• 54:46
  There was no posing there.
• 54:47
  It was just love posing is this kind of disingenuous car ownership.
• 54:53
  You don't love that car.
• 54:55
  You love the way people look at you when you drive that car.
• 54:58
  That's, to me, disingenuous.
• 55:00
  And the poser is the guy that builds a Lamborghini in his basement out of
• 55:03
  wood and fiberglass and tries to pass it off as the real thing, you know?
• 55:07
  Or they just buy a guyardo.
• 55:09
  He, but the point is that,
• 55:12
  I don't know.
• 55:12
  I don't think there are any posers in that.
• 55:14
  This is a trick question.
• 55:16
  There's no posers in any of those questions.
• 55:17
  If you're driving amond all at this point.
• 55:19
  Yeah, sure.
• 55:20
  In the eighties, nineties, whatever.
• 55:22
  Yeah.
• 55:22
  You know, someone's buying that 'cause it was the most depreciated Ferrari fine.
• 55:27
  Fair enough.
• 55:28
  At this point, if you're willing to pay the maintenance bill on keeping that thing
• 55:31
  running, then you must like the damn car.
• 55:33
  No one's seeing that person driving down the street.
• 55:35
  Alright, let me throw a weird one out there.
• 55:37
  You know me, I don't know where they all value wise, I haven't been
• 55:39
  paying attention, but I've always been a fan of the Lamborghini Halah.
• 55:43
  Oh yeah, the jpa.
• 55:44
  Yeah.
• 55:44
  Well the, how do you say it?
• 55:46
  Is it Jpa or Halah?
• 55:47
  I've heard both.
• 55:48
  I have no idea.
• 55:48
  Well, Hapa would be Spanish.
• 55:50
  So an Italian, it's jpa.
• 55:52
  Well, that would be perfect then.
• 55:53
  No, no, that wouldn't be perfect because remember Lamborghini always
• 55:56
  named their cards after Spanish bulls.
• 55:58
  Spanish bull fighters.
• 55:59
  That's true, that's true.
• 55:59
  Et cetera.
• 56:00
  So halper would be the way to say it, I guess.
• 56:02
  What do y'all think of those?
• 56:03
  Am I going too far astray for the price wise yet?
• 56:05
  Have we gotten there?
• 56:06
  That's the car that people confuse for a Kunta when they don't know.
• 56:09
  So it's sort of like the difference between an M three and a three
• 56:13
  series when you kind of don't know.
• 56:15
  To me that's where it's at.
• 56:16
  But I think there's value in that, Don, in the sense that people don't
• 56:20
  know that the JPA is like a thing and that it can be just as cool as mm-hmm.
• 56:25
  They think it's a pantera.
• 56:26
  If you drive down the street in a jpa, they just think they saw a Pantera.
• 56:29
  Especially with the wing on.
• 56:30
  Yeah.
• 56:30
  If you put a wing on it, a hundred percent.
• 56:32
  My point is I, I always like that car.
• 56:34
  If for no other reason, I love Ferrari 3 0 8, everybody's gotta love a 3 0 8.
• 56:38
  Those things are just a perfect car.
• 56:39
  But Lamborghini said, hold my beer.
• 56:41
  We can make a better one.
• 56:42
  And that was the silhouette, of course was the first one.
• 56:45
  And then from the silhouette.
• 56:46
  And the helper and I, I've just always loved it for that gumption of this is our
• 56:51
  take on what a Ferrari 3 0 8 should be.
• 56:53
  And yet I I, I've heard both sides of the coin.
• 56:56
  I've heard, you know, it was not as good.
• 56:57
  It was better.
• 56:58
  I, you know, so I, I don't know, but I think my fiat
• 57:01
  thing fell off the tape again.
• 57:03
  It's the rust spot underneath.
• 57:04
  There it is.
• 57:05
  Yeah.
• 57:05
  Little bit of it comes from the factory that way, you know.
• 57:08
  But I think to Mark's point though, it, it's one of those things, you're
• 57:10
  right, it, it is a love thing.
• 57:11
  If you've got the money to put into this thing and, and
• 57:13
  you're, you're dedicated to it.
• 57:15
  Yeah, there's some love going on there.
• 57:17
  Or to William's point, you know, what's your end game?
• 57:20
  Is it an investment situation?
• 57:21
  Is it something you wanna buy, hold for a couple of years and then hopefully
• 57:25
  sell it with a little bit of a profit?
• 57:26
  You know, that might be a good way to go too, if you can find one.
• 57:29
  I just didn't know where the values were.
• 57:30
  I haven't been paying attention to those cars for a while.
• 57:32
  They had 'em in production for a long time, but they only built like 600 of
• 57:35
  'em over like eight, nine or something.
• 57:36
  It's a rare car, but the point I've made is not a lot of
• 57:40
  people really know what it is.
• 57:41
  They think it's a panter, they think it's something else.
• 57:43
  They think it's a Kant.
• 57:44
  They just don't know.
• 57:44
  You would think, oh, let's see.
• 57:45
  Low production, volume, whatnot.
• 57:47
  Oh, rarity.
• 57:48
  You know, think, oh, value up here, but they're actually not that expensive.
• 57:52
  Body panels, whatnot.
• 57:53
  If you're crash it, you're gonna be screwed on it motor
• 57:55
  wise and stuff like that.
• 57:56
  You should be able to work on it yourself.
• 57:57
  In all honestly, if you got some common sense to yourself, it's
• 58:00
  not that difficult of a car.
• 58:02
  It's just got very, very unique looks to it.
• 58:04
  You pull into a car and a coffee with that guarantee you we're not
• 58:07
  gonna see another one there, and you will absolutely be a opposer.
• 58:09
  No, no, no, not at all.
• 58:12
  No way.
• 58:13
  For me in this episode, this is my favorite car buying
• 58:16
  advice so far, is the helper.
• 58:18
  It's low volume, inexpensive for what it is.
• 58:21
  It's a cool car.
• 58:22
  I think that if you're looking at a collector car that you can love and,
• 58:26
  and has some potential, I like it a lot.
• 58:28
  It is gonna be a pain in the ass to buy like, I think six or seven transactions in
• 58:32
  the last five years on bringing trailer.
• 58:35
  So, you know, that's tough.
• 58:36
  It's not gonna quadruple in value in the next 10 years, but it's not gonna
• 58:40
  lose all that much in value either.
• 58:42
  You're gonna maintain your value.
• 58:45
  No, not at all.
• 58:46
  Not at no.
• 58:46
  Right.
• 58:47
  Yeah.
• 58:47
  I think the helper would be a fun one to have it.
• 58:49
  It's a little offbeat.
• 58:50
  It's a little different like you guys are saying.
• 58:51
  People are gonna say, what?
• 58:52
  What is that car?
• 58:53
  And I think that can be kind of fun when you have a car.
• 58:56
  You know that not everybody knows you.
• 58:57
  Look, if you pull into a car in coffee where you're surrounded by cars, you're
• 59:01
  surrounded by car guys and they're saying, what kind of car is that?
• 59:04
  You've done something great.
• 59:05
  You really have.
• 59:06
  And you know, correct me if I'm wrong, Chris, William, you
• 59:08
  might know this better than me.
• 59:10
  I think they built fewer helpers than they did Kunta.
• 59:13
  They did.
• 59:15
  Oh yeah, by far.
• 59:16
  Oh yeah, that's what I thought.
• 59:17
  Yeah.
• 59:17
  And yet the Kunta would just, I mean, that was just the poster
• 59:20
  child of eighties excess.
• 59:21
  The only problem I have with the helper is that it would be in line with like
• 59:26
  the Lamborghini Gala, which is another one that people don't really remember.
• 59:29
  It's the precursor to the Gudo and the Merc Lago and all those.
• 59:33
  And so you're like, do I really want that?
• 59:35
  And for the same kind of money.
• 59:36
  I know you look like a poser if you're in a gado, but is it more
• 59:40
  value for the money at that point?
• 59:41
  You've got, I hate to say a commodity Lamborghini at that point, but it's not
• 59:45
  hard to go down to the Audi dealer and get parts for your 4.2 liter V eight or,
• 59:50
  you know, your V 10 or whatever it is.
• 59:52
  The Halite, yes, it's going to, or the Japa, it's gonna be more rare.
• 59:57
  But I, I don't know.
• 59:58
  I, I'm, I'm torn on that car like.
• 1:00:01
  It is the best choice so far in terms of checking all the boxes.
• 1:00:04
  But Chris, I, I think you've been sitting on some stuff.
• 1:00:07
  What have you got?
• 1:00:08
  Oh, you know, I think that like I'm a big GT guy, so I really like that
• 1:00:12
  idea around the four fifty six, and you may recall from prior appearances,
• 1:00:17
  I owned a 9 28 and drove it every single day and put 200,000 miles on it.
• 1:00:21
  Love the car.
• 1:00:22
  To your point, if you drive them, they last and they don't misbehave.
• 1:00:26
  And same with my daily driver Alpha.
• 1:00:28
  Now there's one that I was in recently, and this is on the cusp of kind of
• 1:00:32
  moving into the, we've kind of gotten with the Hapa and I'm gonna go with that
• 1:00:37
  pronunciation and then we can have a Sharks and Jets kind of fight later about.
• 1:00:41
  We are the jaas, we are the houses.
• 1:00:48
  Maserati, indie.
• 1:00:50
  Ooh, yeah.
• 1:00:51
  Maserati Indie is this killer.
• 1:00:54
  Unibody gt car.
• 1:00:56
  Roomy, backseat, fold down backseat.
• 1:00:58
  So you can get stuff in there just like in 9 28.
• 1:01:00
  That's why I was mentioning that.
• 1:01:02
  Great.
• 1:01:03
  Sounds great.
• 1:01:04
  Manual transmission, you know, it's a cruiser and it's, you
• 1:01:08
  know, a Ghibli is the same.
• 1:01:10
  Car with some changes but not really and it's a hundred thousand
• 1:01:15
  dollars more a good indie you can get like in the 50 to 60 range.
• 1:01:19
  And I just don't even understand why that car is so cheap, to be honest with you.
• 1:01:24
  It's a great engine.
• 1:01:25
  It's a great drive train.
• 1:01:27
  Beautiful styling, beautiful car.
• 1:01:30
  You know, to me that's like a real diamond in the rough.
• 1:01:33
  I agree.
• 1:01:34
  You guys are agreeing for a change.
• 1:01:35
  This's.
• 1:01:35
  Super weird.
• 1:01:37
  I know we gotta up Chris, you suck.
• 1:01:40
  There we go.
• 1:01:41
  We're back to normal.
• 1:01:44
  No, but speaking of diamonds in the rough, I think there's another car as
• 1:01:47
  we kind of come up the rungs of the ladder and we're talking about pricing,
• 1:01:50
  one of the ones that I really like in Williams' world, especially in the
• 1:01:53
  fine art world of Italian automobiles, you know, everybody wants the short
• 1:01:57
  base, two 50, you know, the 360 fives, all those, you know, super rare.
• 1:02:01
  Just like the early air cold Porsches and stuff.
• 1:02:03
  There's the launch of Mina, which is basically the baby sister to
• 1:02:09
  the two 50 short wheel base car.
• 1:02:11
  It almost looks exactly the same, change the grills and, and the taillights
• 1:02:16
  and it gets forgotten all the time.
• 1:02:18
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:02:18
  Great.
• 1:02:19
  Car it the argument about.
• 1:02:20
  The poser question is the fact is, you know, a lot of people look down,
• 1:02:25
  you know, especially I guess say non-car people, something because
• 1:02:28
  they see someone driving a Ferrari.
• 1:02:29
  They look down, we got a Ferrari, you know, they're not
• 1:02:31
  gonna know what the hell it is.
• 1:02:32
  Not even a lot of people in the cars that know what that car is.
• 1:02:36
  And again, kind of going into a car and coffee, you're gonna pull into that.
• 1:02:39
  That's gonna be the one where people are gonna be coming.
• 1:02:41
  What is that?
• 1:02:42
  It's gonna get that question asked.
• 1:02:44
  Creates a great conversation.
• 1:02:46
  It's something different to set yourself apart than someone else that has the
• 1:02:50
  Ferrari, the 2 75, the two 50, or what have you value wise, you know?
• 1:02:54
  Yeah.
• 1:02:55
  Obviously it's not where that is.
• 1:02:56
  What do you think a flamini goes for?
• 1:02:59
  I don't want to guess.
• 1:03:00
  I'm sure it's probably cl in the six figures.
• 1:03:03
  It has to be.
• 1:03:04
  Oh, it's well into the six figures.
• 1:03:05
  It's a, we're talking like 300 to 400 k. I see.
• 1:03:09
  It's a bar.
• 1:03:09
  It's a val, it's a bargain compared to the Ferrari.
• 1:03:11
  That's like 7 million.
• 1:03:13
  I know, I know.
• 1:03:14
  But, uh, you know, the one that I really like in the launch,
• 1:03:16
  a range is the early ones.
• 1:03:18
  And I'm a huge launch a fan, by the way.
• 1:03:20
  So the B 20.
• 1:03:21
  Oh, yeah, B 20 is in the, just over the a hundred k, like the 120 K range.
• 1:03:26
  And I know that sounds like a lot, but I think one of those
• 1:03:29
  got second overall in the mil.
• 1:03:31
  Amelia, it's a big sedan.
• 1:03:33
  You look at it and it's like, what is going on here?
• 1:03:36
  But that was the first production V six engine in the world that
• 1:03:41
  came out of Victoria Yano and a guy named De Virgilio at Launcher.
• 1:03:47
  That was a groundbreaking car.
• 1:03:49
  It has a transaxle, it handles crazy, but it, again, it's
• 1:03:54
  a wolf in sheep's clothing.
• 1:03:55
  Like you look at it and you go, what the heck is this thing?
• 1:03:58
  But you get one of those tuned up.
• 1:03:59
  Well, and it will hang with anybody in that era.
• 1:04:02
  Well there was that video, was it like two years ago or or so where that B
• 1:04:06
  20 A where they did the chop top on It was making, it was like a viral video.
• 1:04:11
  I saw one of like that the guy who does those, he's done about eight of them.
• 1:04:15
  Yeah, I was on a tour with one last year and oh my God, it took your breath away.
• 1:04:19
  It was like a gorgeous, yeah, that so cool.
• 1:04:23
  You got a lot of heat for doing that.
• 1:04:25
  They were like, whatcha doing in this car?
• 1:04:27
  Know?
• 1:04:27
  But then to your point, once it was done, they're like, oh, I get it.
• 1:04:30
  It's gorgeous.
• 1:04:31
  You know?
• 1:04:31
  They turned out fantastic.
• 1:04:33
  Yeah.
• 1:04:34
  Yeah, they're incredible.
• 1:04:35
  It's sort of like the Lincoln Zephyr of the Italian world, right?
• 1:04:38
  That B 20, if you think about it.
• 1:04:40
  Yeah.
• 1:04:40
  No, that, that, that's not far off.
• 1:04:42
  But there's another hidden Lamborghini kind of in that era
• 1:04:46
  of like the, I think it's the.
• 1:04:48
  Uh uh, mark.
• 1:04:50
  Is it Jor or Har?
• 1:04:53
  I'll give you a Haram.
• 1:04:57
  I don't have a hernia.
• 1:04:58
  Trying to figure that out.
• 1:04:59
  It's like an early seventies.
• 1:05:01
  It's almost like the Lamborghini Daytona, ADA.
• 1:05:05
  Yeah, the Asada.
• 1:05:06
  Yeah.
• 1:05:07
  Yeah.
• 1:05:07
  Got into that little angular kind of vibe.
• 1:05:10
  So it wasn't the Curvy Isro, which is a very cool car.
• 1:05:15
  The Haram was just kind of after that and had that little extra
• 1:05:19
  angularity to it, which some people don't find appealing and it's very
• 1:05:22
  distinctive to that early seventies.
• 1:05:24
  I mean, but it's a crazy V 12 screaming engine.
• 1:05:29
  It's, I think what we all love about Lamborghinis, it's like, I love
• 1:05:33
  your Ferrari engines, but we're all children of the Cannonball Run movie.
• 1:05:36
  Hearing that Kunta streaming engine down the, the highways,
• 1:05:41
  it still rings in my ears today.
• 1:05:43
  It's the same engine.
• 1:05:44
  And man, what a great GT car that is.
• 1:05:48
  And they are not exp expensive.
• 1:05:49
  They're just like, I think they're just getting over the
• 1:05:51
  a hundred K point right now.
• 1:05:52
  They are.
• 1:05:53
  Yeah.
• 1:05:54
  No ante, Don.
• 1:05:55
  I mean, we just said a hundred K car.
• 1:05:56
  Isn.
• 1:05:57
  Inexpensive relative.
• 1:05:58
  It's relative for sure.
• 1:06:00
  Before Don brings us back to the Cadillac ante by way of Ria, GIA,
• 1:06:05
  the Stutz Bearcat, and God knows what else he's got on his list.
• 1:06:10
  I wanted to bring up another weird Italian brand, the Iso Gfa or the Griffin.
• 1:06:16
  Those are pretty interesting cars.
• 1:06:19
  Often forgotten sort of Homologated Maseratis in a way.
• 1:06:22
  Let's talk about those a little bit.
• 1:06:24
  You know, the Grifo is a great car.
• 1:06:26
  What I love about that, what I love about those ISOs, and
• 1:06:28
  don't forget the, uh, the Volta.
• 1:06:30
  A lot of people argue with me.
• 1:06:31
  I got nothing against the Grifo, but I think the Volta is actually
• 1:06:35
  just a little prettier of a car.
• 1:06:37
  I really do.
• 1:06:38
  It's a little cleaner, a little sharper.
• 1:06:40
  It's got a little more of that Maserati look to it.
• 1:06:42
  But what I love about these things, you can go to Pep Boys and get
• 1:06:44
  engine parts for these things.
• 1:06:46
  Oh, yep.
• 1:06:46
  It's fantastic.
• 1:06:47
  You know, uh, it's a great, great way to, to go.
• 1:06:50
  I wanted to bring up.
• 1:06:51
  The Maserati, Mexico a little while ago.
• 1:06:54
  I always thought that was one of the most That's beautiful cars ever made.
• 1:06:56
  Great.
• 1:06:57
  Yeah.
• 1:06:57
  I always thought that was a gorgeous car, Eric, now that you bring up isso.
• 1:07:01
  Absolutely.
• 1:07:01
  The Gfo and the uh, the Volta are great ways to go, especially if you're buying
• 1:07:05
  your first, that whole world of the, you know, the American engine designs, you
• 1:07:10
  know, so we are kind of leaning into the Panera and deferred till now, but it's
• 1:07:15
  like these are all birds of a feather where you have these Italian designers
• 1:07:18
  who don't have the wherewithal to build their own engines from scratch and just
• 1:07:22
  use a powerful hotted up hot cammed Chevy engine or Ford, I think in the Panera.
• 1:07:29
  Yeah, Panera was Ford.
• 1:07:30
  It was the Cleveland 3 51.
• 1:07:32
  I was hanging out with the Panera last week and it's like, what a crazy ass.
• 1:07:36
  You know, the funny thing about the ESO Grifo, if I'm not mistaken,
• 1:07:39
  you had a 3 27, 3 50 or a 4 54.
• 1:07:43
  Yeah.
• 1:07:43
  Yeah.
• 1:07:43
  I mean, for God's sake, you know that, that was just incredible.
• 1:07:47
  But you talk about a nose heavy beast, you know, don't try to put that thing into
• 1:07:50
  too many curves or that's one of those cars you're driving on the coast to get
• 1:07:54
  some ante and that that's what that is.
• 1:07:56
  You know, again, they start out with that.
• 1:07:59
  We lost, we lost them.
• 1:08:00
  Williams dead.
• 1:08:01
  Now that, that is Italian right there.
• 1:08:04
  That's Italian right there.
• 1:08:05
  Got right off his chair.
• 1:08:06
  He's so engaged.
• 1:08:08
  He died the grid was, I, that's what I love too because I I, I like the
• 1:08:12
  mesh of the Italian design Italian built car with the American motor.
• 1:08:15
  I, I wanna say it takes it out the stress, so to speak, but to your
• 1:08:19
  point, you go down to AutoZone and whatnot and gets parts for the motor.
• 1:08:21
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:08:21
  Get the thing running.
• 1:08:22
  It's not intimidating to an owner to own it and be worried about going
• 1:08:26
  out and driving it because it's got American V eight in the engine bay.
• 1:08:29
  Again, you're not gonna be tossed this thing around, but you know, it's a great
• 1:08:32
  cruising car and it's got style for days.
• 1:08:34
  Again, it's kind of one of those ones you come around.
• 1:08:36
  So it's not, a lot of people will know what it is because it looks
• 1:08:39
  like a body kit on a C3 Corvette.
• 1:08:42
  I mean, just to play devil's advocate, thanks Mark.
• 1:08:46
  Thanks for putting a pin in my balloon.
• 1:08:49
  You know, mark, it, it's funny you bring up putting a body kit on a C3 because
• 1:08:54
  back in the eighties Chrysler put a body kit on the Le Baron and I called it tc.
• 1:09:00
  It's a wonderful car.
• 1:09:02
  It's a great way to go.
• 1:09:03
  Love it.
• 1:09:04
  I swear to God he's gonna utter the words by a bricklin by the end of this episode.
• 1:09:11
  I should have got some weed for this.
• 1:09:13
  Well, since you bring it up, we were playing a drinking game and
• 1:09:17
  every time you mention we're doing a shot, we'd all be really drunk.
• 1:09:22
  So I think the 900 pound gorilla that William has brought up is, do we
• 1:09:26
  have a reliability problem we need to overcome, or is it just the expertise
• 1:09:32
  is missing on this side of the pond?
• 1:09:33
  What's the issue?
• 1:09:34
  Like, what's the apprehension with these Italian cars?
• 1:09:37
  You know, I remember reading an article, I think it was Car and Driver
• 1:09:40
  Magazine a thousand years ago, and they were talking about how to own a
• 1:09:44
  Ferrari 3 0 8 on a working man budget.
• 1:09:46
  And I read that article five or six times to make sure I got it
• 1:09:50
  all, and basically it, it, it said the bottom line was just budget.
• 1:09:53
  Just budget your money.
• 1:09:55
  The other thing that was a little undertone.
• 1:09:57
  And I think a lot of people, especially with Italian cars, don't do enough.
• 1:10:01
  They don't drive 'em.
• 1:10:02
  You gotta get out there and drive 'em.
• 1:10:04
  Yeah.
• 1:10:04
  'cause that's when you're gonna work out those bugs.
• 1:10:06
  People always say, oh God, Italian cars, they're horrible, they're
• 1:10:09
  terrible, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:10:10
  I always wanted the 84 quattroporte.
• 1:10:13
  People always thought that was just an ugly car.
• 1:10:15
  It was either a love it or hate it kind of car.
• 1:10:17
  And I, I knew one guy, he had five of 'em.
• 1:10:19
  He always said, you've gotta drive him, you've gotta drive him.
• 1:10:21
  He had a very low mile one, it was an 82 and if I remember right, that car had
• 1:10:26
  something like 3000 miles on the clock.
• 1:10:28
  It was like brand new, but it didn't run.
• 1:10:30
  It was just a paperweight.
• 1:10:31
  His other car and 80, I wanna say that was the 84.
• 1:10:35
  He had close to 250,000 miles on that car.
• 1:10:38
  And he said that car ran like a chimp.
• 1:10:39
  No trouble, no problem.
• 1:10:41
  It was always going.
• 1:10:42
  But he did admit.
• 1:10:43
  It took a lot of money, a lot of patience and a lot of time to get it to that level.
• 1:10:48
  But once he got it there, there it was, he was brilliant.
• 1:10:51
  You gotta drive it with a little gusto too.
• 1:10:53
  You can't just putz around.
• 1:10:54
  You gotta really kind of work that foot, right, right.
• 1:10:56
  Yeah, you do.
• 1:10:57
  You've gotta let it breathe.
• 1:10:58
  Yeah, you really do.
• 1:10:59
  To and I, I think most Italian cars are that way.
• 1:11:01
  I really do.
• 1:11:02
  Well, I mean, the one thing is if you can find the person that can
• 1:11:05
  work on 'em, that's gonna be your friend for life, or as long as you
• 1:11:08
  own that car, you're gonna have a great relationship with them, period.
• 1:11:11
  They're gonna love you.
• 1:11:13
  Do you have to be like a soothsayer or a mystic or some sort of
• 1:11:16
  profit to work on an Italian car?
• 1:11:18
  I mean, an engine's an engine.
• 1:11:19
  Chris was saying it's a twin cam.
• 1:11:21
  How different is it than any Coze or a Toyota four a GE or anything
• 1:11:25
  else that's a twin cam four banger.
• 1:11:27
  I get the intricacies of a V 12, but if you're a Jag guy, how different is the
• 1:11:32
  Ferrari V 12 than the Jaguar V 12, right?
• 1:11:35
  At the end of the day.
• 1:11:35
  So why are we so afraid of these cars?
• 1:11:38
  Well, that's the problem.
• 1:11:39
  You're afraid if you have some sense about you and some mechanical
• 1:11:42
  ability, you can work on it yourself.
• 1:11:44
  YouTube is awesome in regards to learning stuff.
• 1:11:47
  I mean, you gotta trust the guy that's putting the video out there,
• 1:11:50
  but you know, you watch a few ever.
• 1:11:52
  It's not too crazy to work on these things yourself.
• 1:11:55
  Avoid that 150, $200 an hour labor charge and try and do it yourself.
• 1:12:00
  It's not too out of the realm of trying to accomplish that.
• 1:12:04
  You gotta have the confidence in yourself.
• 1:12:06
  You know, once you take it apart, put it back together, that you
• 1:12:09
  go and turn the key, it starts and then you can drive away.
• 1:12:12
  I think just a lot of people are intimidated by it.
• 1:12:14
  That's their biggest issue.
• 1:12:15
  I think there is a service problem or there was years ago, and I
• 1:12:19
  think that that is a stigma.
• 1:12:22
  It has stuck with the Italian car community.
• 1:12:24
  I really do.
• 1:12:25
  You know, when I got my fiat, everybody warned me.
• 1:12:28
  Oh my God, you're gonna be in the shop all the time with that car.
• 1:12:31
  Just get rid of it.
• 1:12:32
  Problem, problem, problem.
• 1:12:33
  Everything.
• 1:12:33
  And admittedly, yeah, we had to work through some bugs.
• 1:12:36
  But I'll tell you something.
• 1:12:37
  That car, when I was in college, that was my daily driver.
• 1:12:40
  That was the only, well, it wasn't the only car I had,
• 1:12:42
  but it was the daily driver.
• 1:12:43
  It was the one that got me to school to work and work was the worst.
• 1:12:47
  I don't know how well you guys know California, but I lived in
• 1:12:49
  Glendale, went to school in Pasadena, worked in Hollywood, but the work
• 1:12:54
  would often send me out to Beverly Hills, Malibu, sometimes Ventura,
• 1:12:58
  over into the San Fernando Valley.
• 1:12:59
  And yeah, guess what?
• 1:13:01
  That was the fiat doing that run.
• 1:13:03
  But yes, I did have to work out some bugs.
• 1:13:05
  I did have to pay the mechanic because these don't like to work on cars.
• 1:13:09
  But I think it goes back to, it's an old stigma.
• 1:13:12
  I really, really do.
• 1:13:13
  I, I, I think they're quirky, maybe the way they're designed,
• 1:13:16
  they're engineered, whatever.
• 1:13:17
  But you do have to drive 'em.
• 1:13:19
  You've gotta work those bugs out.
• 1:13:21
  And William, you're right.
• 1:13:22
  Thanks to the day and age of YouTube, you, you can find almost anything
• 1:13:26
  out there about how to fix or how to tune or how to dial it in.
• 1:13:29
  And thanks to the internet, there's a whole community out there who
• 1:13:32
  can help you out with this as well.
• 1:13:33
  You gotta question.
• 1:13:34
  You don't understand the, the YouTube video.
• 1:13:36
  Go on Facebook.
• 1:13:37
  You're gonna find a community out there who's gonna be able to help you dial in
• 1:13:40
  whatever it is you're trying to dial in.
• 1:13:42
  Eric, you brought it up.
• 1:13:44
  Why are we so afraid of these?
• 1:13:45
  Why are the ISOs so attractive?
• 1:13:47
  'cause they've got a Chevy engine under the hood.
• 1:13:49
  I think that just goes to economics.
• 1:13:51
  It just makes it easier if you are gonna work on it.
• 1:13:54
  It's easier to go to Chief Auto Parts or AutoZone or whatever and buy a water
• 1:13:57
  pump for a Chevy engine than it is a Maserati, Lamborghini, Ferrari, whatever.
• 1:14:02
  So that just boils down to economics and parts availability.
• 1:14:05
  I, I don't think anybody should really be afraid of an Italian car.
• 1:14:08
  I, I don't, I think you should go in it with a little bit of
• 1:14:11
  caution, a little bit of education.
• 1:14:13
  Have some guys around you who really, really know these cars
• 1:14:15
  like William does, like Chris does, like some other people out there.
• 1:14:19
  Go on Facebook and start to learn these cars before you dive in.
• 1:14:23
  See which one might be right for you.
• 1:14:25
  I think that's really the best way to go.
• 1:14:27
  And it just enhances your ownership experience too.
• 1:14:30
  I mean, when you work on that car yourself, as we all know, and you
• 1:14:33
  get your hands dirty and greasy and stuff like that, the ownership of that
• 1:14:37
  car, it just takes it to a different level because of you're just becoming
• 1:14:41
  that much more connected with it.
• 1:14:42
  It creates that relationship.
• 1:14:43
  It just, it makes it that much better owning that car when you are working
• 1:14:47
  on yourself because you, you know it, then you starting to really
• 1:14:50
  know the intricacies of that car.
• 1:14:52
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:14:52
  And learning what it's about.
• 1:14:53
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:14:53
  And especially with Italian cars back, the older ones that they, almost everyone
• 1:14:58
  was kind of a little different than the next one that came down the line
• 1:15:01
  because, you know, as the day went on, you know, they were drinking their wine
• 1:15:03
  on the assembly line, you know, hey, you know, some corners get cut or whatnot,
• 1:15:07
  but you know, each car's gonna have its own little quirks and stuff like that.
• 1:15:10
  And you learn about it.
• 1:15:11
  And that's what's great about owning those cars.
• 1:15:13
  'cause it becomes your car.
• 1:15:15
  I'm gonna disagree.
• 1:15:18
  I was gonna disagree first.
• 1:15:20
  Oh shit.
• 1:15:20
  Mark.
• 1:15:21
  Sorry.
• 1:15:21
  So I'm a Ferrari 3 48 owner.
• 1:15:24
  Service position engine out.
• 1:15:26
  Exactly.
• 1:15:27
  You have to be careful and, and I don't disagree.
• 1:15:29
  Working on your cars is good, but it's kind of soured me a little bit on Ferrari.
• 1:15:34
  It's a lot of low volume unobtainium and they put in planned obsolesces in there,
• 1:15:39
  so they, the engine out belt change needs to be done every three years.
• 1:15:43
  Well, guess what?
• 1:15:44
  You're always in the window of having to do that.
• 1:15:47
  Either you just had it done and you spent 12 grand to have it done and
• 1:15:50
  it's really hard to do on your own.
• 1:15:51
  There's special tools and dropping your engine out.
• 1:15:53
  It's not like changing some filters or anything.
• 1:15:56
  Dropping an engine out is a, you have to know what the hell you're doing.
• 1:15:59
  It's one of those things, yes, if you're mechanically inclined and you have the
• 1:16:02
  equipment to do it, but you've gotta have the tool sets to do it, and that is by
• 1:16:06
  design, by Ferrari because they wanted to keep enough action going through
• 1:16:10
  the maintenance bays in their local dealerships that make 'em make sense.
• 1:16:14
  If it's a low volume car, you're not gonna get enough work to keep the mechanics
• 1:16:18
  around and keep 'em fed and happy.
• 1:16:20
  So I think that's one of the dirty little secret of the car world and
• 1:16:23
  especially the Ferrari world, is that they've really kind of built that
• 1:16:28
  maintenance cycle in to be a little bit beyond the normal maintenance cycle
• 1:16:33
  of any other cars that are out there.
• 1:16:35
  You know, I think that's a little disappointing now that isn't
• 1:16:37
  true necessarily of earlier and the later ones now, they're so
• 1:16:41
  electronic and digital that.
• 1:16:43
  You know, it's like you have to be more of a computer guy than a
• 1:16:46
  mechanical guy to deal with them.
• 1:16:48
  But the parts are low volume and they're often made of exotic materials.
• 1:16:53
  Like here, I, I have a recent example.
• 1:16:55
  Something wasn't feeling right in my transmission.
• 1:16:57
  I take into the shop in the 3 48, they used what's called a dual mass flywheel.
• 1:17:02
  So in the flywheel, in the clutch, they have grease packed
• 1:17:05
  in there to be a shock absorber.
• 1:17:08
  Well, I don't know if you know about grease and if grease and how a clutch
• 1:17:12
  works, it's a frictional device.
• 1:17:13
  Right?
• 1:17:14
  If any of that grease leaks out, guess what?
• 1:17:16
  You gotta tear the whole thing down.
• 1:17:19
  The good thing is it's very accessible on that car.
• 1:17:21
  It's just like, okay, that's unnecessarily complicated for that car, right?
• 1:17:26
  They wanted to bring their F1 technology in.
• 1:17:28
  It's a great car.
• 1:17:29
  Like I, I will say with a 3 48, it always gets called the baby test aosa
• 1:17:33
  because of the stripes on the side.
• 1:17:35
  But it's actually closer to a baby F 40.
• 1:17:37
  It's got the longitudinal engine, it's got the cooling ducts behind the driver.
• 1:17:42
  A lot of the steering is very similar.
• 1:17:45
  It's a great car.
• 1:17:46
  It's a ripper.
• 1:17:46
  It's fun.
• 1:17:47
  It's not gonna be the world's fastest car.
• 1:17:48
  It's kind of gotten beyond that.
• 1:17:50
  It's got go-kart.
• 1:17:52
  One of the best steering, I think.
• 1:17:53
  Oh yeah.
• 1:17:54
  It's one of the last true manual Ferraris like the end of the day.
• 1:17:58
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:17:58
  That, well, that's the thing is the 3 48 to 3 55, your major
• 1:18:02
  services, it's all engine out.
• 1:18:04
  Everything coming out.
• 1:18:05
  And when, uh, I'm gonna hack his last thing up, but when Luca di.
• 1:18:12
  He's started to recognize these problems and they said, oh, 'cause when he came
• 1:18:15
  on, the fear, they 3 55 was already basically coming out and doing it.
• 1:18:18
  So it was all right.
• 1:18:18
  So the 360 came because it 360 belt service, they got the panel door, whatnot.
• 1:18:22
  So you're gonna have to take the engine out, you can get to it.
• 1:18:24
  You can go your local guy that knows how to do it.
• 1:18:26
  Three, four grand, still not cheap, but to be with things when they
• 1:18:29
  went to the four 30, everything went to chains, everything like that.
• 1:18:31
  Hey, you know, kind of solve some of those issues there.
• 1:18:33
  But it's unfortunate in regards to some of those things.
• 1:18:36
  'cause yeah, I mean, you have to know what you're doing and it kind of
• 1:18:39
  goes to the ownership to your point.
• 1:18:40
  Either you just had it done or you're planning to have it done.
• 1:18:43
  You have to put in your budget, alright?
• 1:18:45
  You gotta balance it out that you gotta roughly have five, six grand a year.
• 1:18:50
  You gotta basically kind of put aside in your mind that you're
• 1:18:52
  gonna have for maintenance.
• 1:18:53
  Now one year you might only have to do two, three grand, but the
• 1:18:56
  follow year might be seven or eight.
• 1:18:57
  So it's, it's kind of one things.
• 1:18:58
  You also have to think, it's just, it's part of the ownership.
• 1:19:00
  A lot of people get intimidated by that and that's why they kind of steer clear.
• 1:19:03
  'cause they're like, oh, I don't wanna spend the money.
• 1:19:04
  But it's like, well any older car you're gonna have, you're
• 1:19:06
  gonna have to spend the money.
• 1:19:07
  It just, depending on what model is it, what it's gonna take, it's
• 1:19:11
  just part of the ownership of it.
• 1:19:12
  Would I tackle doing an engine out thing?
• 1:19:14
  No.
• 1:19:14
  You know, I know my limitations.
• 1:19:16
  Very cautious in regards to what I'm gonna do myself.
• 1:19:19
  You know, I know what I can and can't do.
• 1:19:21
  I'm more than happy to have my guy down the street know
• 1:19:23
  take cars and just have at it.
• 1:19:24
  Here's my credit card, charge me.
• 1:19:27
  There's a lot to be said there.
• 1:19:29
  I mean, I'm still trying to put two and two together with Chris's
• 1:19:32
  spaghetti sauce powered, dual mask flywheel, because the Germans, it's all
• 1:19:37
  metal plates and springs and things.
• 1:19:38
  So I'm trying to figure out how this viscous setup actually works, but
• 1:19:41
  we'll, we'll put a pin in that as well.
• 1:19:43
  But the Ferraris, I think give the rest of the brands a bad wrap,
• 1:19:47
  whether it be the Fiats or the Maseratis or Lamborghinis and so on.
• 1:19:50
  They all have their complexity.
• 1:19:51
  The Minnetti, Marelli, electronics, they're right up
• 1:19:53
  there with Lucas, unfortunately.
• 1:19:55
  To Williams' point, if you know how to turn a wrench, some of those more,
• 1:19:59
  let's call them basic engines, even the twin cam alphas and stuff like
• 1:20:02
  that, the V six is the buso engines.
• 1:20:04
  Those you shouldn't be afraid of, because honestly, I'd recommend those power
• 1:20:08
  plants over a flat six Porsche any day.
• 1:20:11
  I know Mark can sympathize with me on this.
• 1:20:13
  'cause timing, a flat six is a pain in the neck.
• 1:20:15
  If you do it wrong, you blow up half the motor.
• 1:20:16
  You know, there's a lot of intricacies in the German engines, high
• 1:20:19
  tolerances, all this kind of stuff.
• 1:20:21
  The Italian motors, non Ferrari engines, they're pretty stout.
• 1:20:25
  I mean, they're designed to rev to like 10 billion RPM all day long.
• 1:20:29
  Where do you think Honda got the idea from?
• 1:20:31
  I, I don't know.
• 1:20:32
  I, I just don't want.
• 1:20:33
  To sour people's impression of Italian cars by basing it solely on Ferrari.
• 1:20:37
  I think there's still some gems out there.
• 1:20:39
  Your point, so one I might add, we haven't addressed either of
• 1:20:42
  the other two price categories.
• 1:20:44
  We've spent the last hour and a half sub 50.
• 1:20:47
  Oh, we're, we're getting there.
• 1:20:48
  We're climbing up.
• 1:20:49
  So take us there.
• 1:20:50
  I I, I would say if you're going with one of our sub 50 K relatively exotic
• 1:20:56
  recommendations, they're very low volume and that's a real fucking problem, right?
• 1:21:00
  You are shipping stuff from Italian junkyards at that point to get back to
• 1:21:04
  you when some just 30-year-old piece of metal fails as it is want to do.
• 1:21:09
  I haven't heard in the sub 50 K any obvious future classic, the two most
• 1:21:15
  obvious ones to me being the Quadri Folio of Julia and the Alpha four C,
• 1:21:20
  the four cheese that was on my list.
• 1:21:22
  I mean, obviously the four C isn't as good as it Cayman objectively, but subjectively
• 1:21:27
  you can make a strong argument for it.
• 1:21:29
  Transmission notwithstanding, it's a really cool little car under
• 1:21:33
  50 K. You've got the Quadra Folio and you've got the four C, and
• 1:21:37
  those things are much more modern.
• 1:21:38
  They skip all of these kind of problems, carbon tub notwithstanding,
• 1:21:42
  and you're in a situation to deal with them in a much more, uh, reasonable,
• 1:21:46
  contemporary kind of fashion.
• 1:21:48
  I'm with you, mark.
• 1:21:49
  If I had to start all over again and to satisfy that itch, check that box.
• 1:21:53
  It says, thou shalt own an Italian car to be a proper petrolhead.
• 1:21:57
  I think a four C is the answer to your point.
• 1:22:00
  It's not as good as a Cayman, but it's better than an Elise.
• 1:22:05
  If you think about it from that perspective, it's better
• 1:22:07
  than a lot of other cars.
• 1:22:08
  Maybe not as good as some, but the power plant in the four cheese
• 1:22:12
  comes right out of the Juliet.
• 1:22:13
  It's a two liter turbo.
• 1:22:14
  It's a commodity engine.
• 1:22:15
  Right.
• 1:22:16
  They've been running that two liter turbo in a bunch of stuff overseas, so it's
• 1:22:19
  not an exotic engine, but it's hopped up.
• 1:22:21
  Right.
• 1:22:22
  250 horsepower or whatever they make, the way that car is built, that whole
• 1:22:25
  mono cock design they came up with, if you, there's a whole thing on History
• 1:22:28
  Channel about that car specifically.
• 1:22:30
  'cause it's extremely unique the way they do it.
• 1:22:33
  It's F1 technology and yet somehow managed to be heavier than a bonded
• 1:22:37
  aluminum chassis in its competitor.
• 1:22:39
  I I know we're not gonna go there.
• 1:22:41
  We're not gonna go there.
• 1:22:42
  But you could pick one up for 35 grand.
• 1:22:45
  Yeah.
• 1:22:45
  No, a hundred percent.
• 1:22:46
  No, a hundred percent.
• 1:22:47
  I, I totally, I totally recommend it.
• 1:22:49
  You forego a manual transmission.
• 1:22:51
  That's the only thing that would keep me from a four C.
• 1:22:53
  It is at the top of my list.
• 1:22:55
  It's a dry dual clutch.
• 1:22:57
  Yeah.
• 1:22:57
  That they bought from Dodge.
• 1:22:59
  That's the really unfortunate part.
• 1:23:02
  Stellantis
• 1:23:06
  I had, man, if you're suffering from Stellantis for more than
• 1:23:09
  four hours, see a doctor.
• 1:23:11
  All right.
• 1:23:11
  I had to get the appointment for that shit.
• 1:23:13
  I have Stellantis and I have an appointment in the morning.
• 1:23:18
  I was gonna ask, you know, so for a bigger car, what about the quattroporte?
• 1:23:22
  It's been around a longer, you can find him for within probably
• 1:23:25
  25 to 45, depending on the year.
• 1:23:28
  And the, I guess the, the mileage and everything.
• 1:23:30
  It's ly.
• 1:23:33
  Hmm.
• 1:23:33
  It looks like a fish.
• 1:23:34
  How dare you?
• 1:23:36
  It's that bad.
• 1:23:38
  It looks like a fish.
• 1:23:39
  How dare you.
• 1:23:41
  How dare you, sir? I think the quattroporte is a good looking car.
• 1:23:44
  It's like a very dangerous fish.
• 1:23:46
  It's like an exotic and dangerous fish.
• 1:23:49
  It's an exotic catfish.
• 1:23:51
  It has those Buick air inlets along the, like, the fenders along the hood.
• 1:23:55
  It's ridiculous.
• 1:23:56
  It's like a Roadmaster like, I can't it.
• 1:23:58
  It's got that big gaping mouth, like a carp.
• 1:24:00
  Like I don't get it.
• 1:24:01
  I thought we were friends.
• 1:24:03
  So I want, I, I want to hear from the real Italian petrolhead, like Chris and,
• 1:24:08
  and William, what their thoughts are.
• 1:24:10
  Eric, Eric is the only at, he, he's a, an Italian redneck Quatro, but
• 1:24:19
  not a fan.
• 1:24:20
  And I'm talking about the, the mid to late two thousands.
• 1:24:22
  Not the, you said two votes Fugly, two votes.
• 1:24:24
  F let's Roman style voting Quattroporte.
• 1:24:28
  It's an executive car.
• 1:24:29
  One of those.
• 1:24:29
  It's an executive car that I can fit in.
• 1:24:32
  See?
• 1:24:32
  Yeah, there's a whole, it's an Italian car that I. Squeeze my frame into,
• 1:24:37
  and I don't know, William, maybe have a, has a different opinion.
• 1:24:40
  I mean, good running gear I guess, but it's also kind of expensive.
• 1:24:43
  We were talking about Maseratis earlier, kind of being problematic,
• 1:24:46
  the SCS and that kind of stuff.
• 1:24:48
  And it's like, I think we can all agree it's no ante, no, no
• 1:24:52
  one's recommended to buy Turbo.
• 1:24:54
  Where's, yeah, I was gonna go there because no one recommends
• 1:24:57
  to buy Turbo because you have to buy it with 200,000 miles turbo.
• 1:25:01
  B Turbo.
• 1:25:02
  B Turbo.
• 1:25:06
  The JPA crowd is, says it buy Turbo.
• 1:25:09
  Turbo.
• 1:25:10
  So I'm gonna start calling the Audi S four B Turbo next too.
• 1:25:14
  All right.
• 1:25:14
  So it's all good.
• 1:25:16
  You know, nobody recommends those cars because they're like Jags, if
• 1:25:19
  it has low mileage run away from it.
• 1:25:20
  The buy turbo is notoriously just terrible.
• 1:25:24
  It's a nightmare car.
• 1:25:25
  I've met some people that own them and they're like, it's fantastic for
• 1:25:28
  the five seconds that it runs, but if you don't find one of the high
• 1:25:32
  mileage, it means it was not a runner.
• 1:25:34
  And that's, that's a scary reality with those cars.
• 1:25:36
  I've heard.
• 1:25:37
  You gotta rewire them soup to nuts.
• 1:25:39
  Just again, do you want to go through that nightmare?
• 1:25:41
  No, but yeah man, Marelli for the win.
• 1:25:45
  I think we're turning into the Jerry Lewis telethon of of podcasts.
• 1:25:56
  Jerry said, Hey, ed, I hear the Tiffany,
• 1:26:02
  Debbie Davis and I are sitting over here.
• 1:26:04
  We're gonna have Carol Channing come out and sing with us.
• 1:26:08
  Hey, mark, that's low.
• 1:26:11
  He's going right for you.
• 1:26:14
  I'm just hanging my head in shame.
• 1:26:16
  I think we ought to like spend some time in the fantasy world.
• 1:26:19
  I think so too.
• 1:26:20
  The amao cars, the ones that we all dream of.
• 1:26:24
  And, and I'm gonna ask a controversial question.
• 1:26:27
  Oh, Kosh, would you own one thumbs?
• 1:26:30
  Oh wow.
• 1:26:31
  Four votes down.
• 1:26:32
  Two boats up.
• 1:26:33
  I'm imagining Don getting into a, a Kosh right now.
• 1:26:38
  Nope.
• 1:26:39
  Which, which half of him, I'm gonna tell you a little secret
• 1:26:42
  with a little bit of Vaseline and a, a shoehorn and a guy pushing.
• 1:26:48
  I can get into a osh, ask him how he knows.
• 1:26:54
  No, don't ask.
• 1:26:55
  No.
• 1:26:55
  Otherwise, I'll bring up an elante.
• 1:26:59
  I'd rather own a Diablo to be clear.
• 1:27:01
  Yes, take your osh.
• 1:27:02
  Thank you.
• 1:27:02
  Thank you.
• 1:27:03
  Diablo's, where it's at.
• 1:27:05
  And the Kunta was on our walls.
• 1:27:07
  And then I don't come from car stock, you know, my parents didn't care about cars
• 1:27:12
  or anything, but I did Cannonball Run.
• 1:27:14
  I saw there was a car show and they were gonna have a Kunta show up.
• 1:27:18
  So I went to this car show and I was like, utterly disappointed.
• 1:27:23
  I have to say.
• 1:27:23
  It was like there was this era where the front wheels were like just a little
• 1:27:28
  too small, a little too weird looking.
• 1:27:31
  I think it's true with the Testa Rosa, you know, kind of that general era,
• 1:27:34
  like when you look at 'em, they're just not scaled exactly right now,
• 1:27:38
  the next generation, they got it right and all that sort of stuff.
• 1:27:41
  I've never owned one, so I can't talk about the ownership issue.
• 1:27:44
  And maybe one of y'all can, or William might play in that world, but a Diablo,
• 1:27:49
  a Merc Lago, something like that.
• 1:27:51
  I'm there all day and if I could have a dream car, it might be the Mura.
• 1:27:55
  I just think that's a beautiful, beautiful, amazing car.
• 1:27:59
  Everyone's dream car is a Mura.
• 1:28:01
  Yeah, the Mercy E gear is uninteresting to me personally.
• 1:28:05
  Yeah, the, I mean, the mirror set the stage for what we
• 1:28:09
  define as exotics, right?
• 1:28:10
  Let's, let's be serious, but yeah, no, a hundred percent.
• 1:28:13
  When you bring up Diablo, you have to be very careful with that, because I
• 1:28:17
  think there's gen one and Gen two, even though that's not an official thing,
• 1:28:20
  because I'm a pop-up headlights Diablo guy, early Diablos, because the later
• 1:28:26
  closed over kind of look with the svs and the S VJs where they kind of
• 1:28:31
  bloated 'em, they changed the wheels, to your point, came in those funky, uh,
• 1:28:35
  plump, crazy and all those weird colors that, you know, they were getting from
• 1:28:37
  Dodge, that they were painting 'em in.
• 1:28:39
  I just, eh, it doesn't do it for me.
• 1:28:42
  Remember one thing though, when we're talking about Lamborghini
• 1:28:45
  and go back to the Miura.
• 1:28:46
  The Miura is the car that put the super exotic on the map.
• 1:28:51
  That was the car that said, this is what we're going for.
• 1:28:54
  That was the car that made Ferrari say, oh shit, what do we get ourselves
• 1:28:57
  into when we piss that farmer off?
• 1:29:00
  So he builds the Miura.
• 1:29:02
  The Miura had a major Achilles heel, which was transverse engine
• 1:29:06
  fuel tank in the front end weight.
• 1:29:08
  Yep.
• 1:29:08
  Front end weight.
• 1:29:09
  The way the engine was mounted, it created a lot of handling problems.
• 1:29:12
  The Kunta came along and its job was to not only solve that, but again, put
• 1:29:16
  the fear into the heart of Ferrari.
• 1:29:19
  And at this point it started splitting the crowd.
• 1:29:21
  Now, Eric, to your color thing, one of the separating dynamics
• 1:29:26
  that made Mire so popular was the color palette that was available.
• 1:29:30
  Ferrari was all red.
• 1:29:31
  It was just red.
• 1:29:32
  Everything was gonna be red with Ferrari.
• 1:29:33
  But we were in the sixties, the psychedelic movement was coming out.
• 1:29:38
  Younger people had some money, and so Lamborghini cashed in on that by
• 1:29:42
  offering the psychedelic colors, and that really, really worked for them.
• 1:29:45
  So when the Kunta Shira came along, they were kind of getting away from that.
• 1:29:49
  They wanted to go into something totally different, get away from
• 1:29:52
  the meda, get away from what we used to do in the sixties, is over.
• 1:29:56
  Let's move forward.
• 1:29:57
  The Kunta takes us into 1989 from what, 1974.
• 1:30:02
  And you had a car that stepped up to the ball plate and you talk about
• 1:30:06
  the most unapologetic, the most dynamic, ridiculous looking car.
• 1:30:12
  You know, Chris, you brought it up.
• 1:30:13
  The wheels didn't look quite right on the first, on the earliest series.
• 1:30:16
  They, they really didn't.
• 1:30:18
  In fact, if you look at the early series, Kosh.
• 1:30:20
  They didn't really look right at all.
• 1:30:21
  They looked a little weird.
• 1:30:23
  It wasn't until they started refining it and made it what it was.
• 1:30:27
  I stay away from the anniversary editions.
• 1:30:29
  I think those are an abomination.
• 1:30:31
  I think they're horrible.
• 1:30:32
  I hate to say that, but there's too much Tupperware going on.
• 1:30:35
  My only problem with Diablo, and this is where I still side with Kunta, is the
• 1:30:41
  Diablo was essentially a Chrysler design.
• 1:30:44
  Which is really interesting that when you go later down the line and
• 1:30:47
  Eric, you hit the nail on the head.
• 1:30:49
  They started coming up with all these dodge colors.
• 1:30:51
  Well, that was the way a lot of people saw it.
• 1:30:53
  They said, oh my God, they're stealing colors from Chrysler Corporation.
• 1:30:56
  No, they were trying to go back to the mere days because they were
• 1:30:59
  the ones who brought it up first.
• 1:31:00
  Chrysler copied them back in the sixties and seventies.
• 1:31:03
  The psychedelic movement, that's where it came from.
• 1:31:06
  When Chrysler invested so heavily, they saw what they thought was a really
• 1:31:10
  ugly car, and that really ugly car became, and forgive me, Eric, I know
• 1:31:15
  I'm messing this up badly with your accent, but I think I'm saying it right,
• 1:31:19
  that she's Atta Marra, the Chis Atta.
• 1:31:21
  Yeah.
• 1:31:21
  I was gonna bring that car up.
• 1:31:23
  The V 16 Zeta.
• 1:31:24
  Yes.
• 1:31:25
  And that car was supposed to be the original Diablo, correct.
• 1:31:29
  Chrysler said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 1:31:31
  That car looks way too ugly.
• 1:31:32
  It doesn't look good enough.
• 1:31:33
  We're taking the design back to Detroit and we're gonna smooth it over.
• 1:31:37
  We're gonna make it more like maybe a Chrysler TC or le.
• 1:31:40
  Oh geez.
• 1:31:43
  And that became the Diablo.
• 1:31:45
  Now, I have nothing against Diablo except to me, when you have the Miura
• 1:31:51
  stepping up to the plate and telling everybody, by the way, I am Lamborghini.
• 1:31:56
  And people took a breath and said, oh my God.
• 1:32:00
  And then that car wore out and they said, ah, we're gonna
• 1:32:02
  knock your socks off again.
• 1:32:03
  They said, by the way, I am Kage.
• 1:32:05
  Holy cow.
• 1:32:07
  And what does that translate to Kage?
• 1:32:09
  So you have these unforgiving looking cars coming out of
• 1:32:13
  Tata, and then there was Diablo.
• 1:32:16
  It's easy to make one of these cars when you make it unlivable.
• 1:32:20
  You know the Diablo.
• 1:32:21
  Only by Lamborghini standards could you call it more practical for Christ's sake.
• 1:32:26
  It's a Diablo.
• 1:32:27
  It's still trying to murder you, and it's still wholly impractical.
• 1:32:32
  And that's where we go back to the jpa jalapeno, the Lamborghini jalapeno.
• 1:32:38
  Jalapeno.
• 1:32:39
  Yeah, exactly.
• 1:32:41
  Because that was to the point that was made earlier, more
• 1:32:44
  of a competitor to the 3 0 8.
• 1:32:45
  It was more of a driver's car, the Kunta, every review I've ever seen
• 1:32:49
  about it, whether it was filmed yesterday or 30 years ago, people
• 1:32:53
  are like, you can't see out of it.
• 1:32:54
  It's noisy, it's hot, it's undrivable, it steers like a truck.
• 1:32:59
  It's all sizzle and just no stake at the end of the day.
• 1:33:01
  Right.
• 1:33:02
  So it's very flashy.
• 1:33:03
  And I've always wondered, because you don't hear people talking about Diablos.
• 1:33:07
  You don't see them in shootouts like that Japanese videos
• 1:33:11
  that we were talking about.
• 1:33:12
  You don't, you just never see Diablos.
• 1:33:13
  Maybe because they made three of them.
• 1:33:15
  Yeah, they're low volume.
• 1:33:16
  Because the Kosh was so revolutionary that they made a ton of them.
• 1:33:20
  It stuck around forever.
• 1:33:21
  But I think that Undriv ability is still there in the Diablo.
• 1:33:25
  You can't see out of it.
• 1:33:26
  It still steers like a bus.
• 1:33:27
  You know, all those kinds of things that didn't get corrected until you
• 1:33:30
  got to the gala prototype, the Mercy Lago, the the Guo, and all those R
• 1:33:35
  eight platform based Lamborghinis, when they're finally straightened out, even
• 1:33:39
  the Kunta is an engineering miracle.
• 1:33:42
  If you look at how that motor is mounted on top of the transmission and
• 1:33:46
  the shifter is directly into the tail.
• 1:33:48
  I mean, it, it's bonkers.
• 1:33:50
  The prop shaft goes through the engine.
• 1:33:52
  Oh, it's, it's absolutely insane.
• 1:33:54
  It's like what mental patient came up with this thing?
• 1:33:56
  And then, you know, again, we get into the reliability question
• 1:33:59
  and maintenance and all that.
• 1:34:00
  Kuta is just so over the top extreme.
• 1:34:04
  I love them, don't get me wrong.
• 1:34:05
  And I do like the JC Whitney body kit ones, you know, the later ones, non-US
• 1:34:10
  bumpers and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:34:12
  You mean the Tupperware edition?
• 1:34:14
  A hundred percent only came in white.
• 1:34:16
  The Tupperware edition.
• 1:34:17
  Yeah.
• 1:34:17
  David Hasselhoff drives them.
• 1:34:19
  You know, those kind of cars, uh, Lamborghini, I mean, they are the poster
• 1:34:24
  on the wall, but then you have tester on the other side saying, look, I'm here too.
• 1:34:28
  That was less interesting.
• 1:34:30
  I mean, the Kunta was everything you wanted to be in your fantasies.
• 1:34:34
  It's just in reality, like I was describing earlier, when you saw it in
• 1:34:37
  real life, it didn't quite live up to the eye candy that it was on the poster.
• 1:34:42
  Even when you see it on tv, one of those things like, oh, okay.
• 1:34:45
  It's like when you meet a famous actress and it's like, you're
• 1:34:48
  not exactly what I remember.
• 1:34:50
  Never meet your heroes.
• 1:34:52
  No, I mean, I think it's fair to appreciate the longevity of the Kunta.
• 1:34:56
  Right?
• 1:34:56
  Like I was gonna say, the Kosh is like, a, was a little bit like the
• 1:34:59
  GTR, but it's probably more appropriate to say the GTR was more like a Kosh
• 1:35:03
  and that it was revolutionary when it landed and, and that gave it.
• 1:35:07
  The longevity that it had, and by the time you're really complaining
• 1:35:11
  about it, it's very long in the tooth.
• 1:35:13
  From a car design, uh, perspective.
• 1:35:15
  They didn't have a choice though, is because they're going through bankruptcy
• 1:35:18
  so many times they, they couldn't.
• 1:35:21
  Yeah.
• 1:35:21
  I mean, they couldn't make money, you know Exactly that.
• 1:35:23
  Not withstanding, you know, reasons not withstanding to your analogy, mark.
• 1:35:28
  I think the Kunta is closer to the GT 40 than anything else.
• 1:35:32
  'cause if you look at how it evolved and even now, the modern Kunta, when
• 1:35:36
  we stack that on top of the pile, it really follows more of the Ford
• 1:35:41
  lineage than it does anything else.
• 1:35:43
  And it's evolution.
• 1:35:44
  That's fair.
• 1:35:44
  I'm not gonna argue on that one.
• 1:35:46
  It was a big deal and that's why it was able to, to maintain
• 1:35:48
  the sales volume relative for its time, low volume for today.
• 1:35:52
  It, it was sticky.
• 1:35:53
  Now we can flip that over.
• 1:35:55
  If you wanna buy a drivable Diablo to go into Don's world, just buy a Viper
• 1:36:00
  and get it over with the Dodge product with a Lamborghini engine in it.
• 1:36:02
  Uh, buy one of the early first gen rear world drive ones and call it an A. All
• 1:36:06
  right, I'm gonna throw one out here.
• 1:36:08
  Could be the one car I would buy.
• 1:36:10
  Oh, oh, we're talking about what we'd actually do.
• 1:36:13
  That's a different conversation.
• 1:36:13
  Ferrari 2 88 GTO.
• 1:36:16
  Oh my god.
• 1:36:17
  An F 40 with a street body on it.
• 1:36:19
  Wouldn't, you'd actually buy what for like half a million dollars or?
• 1:36:23
  Yeah, we're in fantasy land man.
• 1:36:25
  We're up in the real world.
• 1:36:27
  Yeah.
• 1:36:27
  If I win the Mega millions, sure.
• 1:36:29
  The problem with the 2 88 GTO is that Yes, it's awesome.
• 1:36:33
  It's like the five 12 bb, right?
• 1:36:35
  You're like, that is super cool until you realize for slightly more money you just
• 1:36:40
  buy a 40, you call it a day, actually less money because the 2 88 GT O, its
• 1:36:45
  DNA is in the F 40 I, I'd rather have the F 40 a F 40 is cheaper than a 2 88.
• 1:36:50
  Tell that right now.
• 1:36:51
  2 88 are about 3 million plus your year F 40 are two to two five, depending on
• 1:36:56
  what mileage and whatnot going on it.
• 1:36:57
  So if I have my druthers, I'd take the F 40 over to 2 88.
• 1:37:00
  I love the 2 88.
• 1:37:02
  You know, that's one of my favorite code.
• 1:37:03
  It's kind of right there.
• 1:37:05
  Have that F 40 and 2 88 are like right there.
• 1:37:07
  But if I had to pick one, I'd take the F 40.
• 1:37:08
  It's just such a raw, analog car.
• 1:37:11
  Nothing in it that's just motor pedals seat and go, you
• 1:37:14
  know, it's just a great car.
• 1:37:16
  It's Roman vote time, F 40 or 2 88.
• 1:37:18
  PU F 40 down is 2 88.
• 1:37:24
  Ah.
• 1:37:25
  I think the F 40 wins again.
• 1:37:27
  There's no abstention.
• 1:37:29
  There's no, there's no, you know, you can't abstain.
• 1:37:31
  Fist is F 50.
• 1:37:33
  Fist is your disconnected fist.
• 1:37:35
  Is the F 50?
• 1:37:35
  F 50?
• 1:37:36
  No, honestly, the F 50 is probably the least.
• 1:37:39
  It's one of the most underrated cars.
• 1:37:41
  Even though it's like well-respected.
• 1:37:42
  It's Ferrari's.
• 1:37:43
  Diablo.
• 1:37:44
  It's terrible.
• 1:37:45
  No, no, no.
• 1:37:45
  V 12.
• 1:37:46
  Oh it, it's not even Ferrari Diablo.
• 1:37:48
  It, it's more like Ferrari tc.
• 1:37:53
  That's how bad that car is.
• 1:37:55
  Ferrari love it.
• 1:37:56
  I mean, I don't like the Enzo either or the, I don't really like the FXX.
• 1:38:00
  I mean, it's cool.
• 1:38:01
  It's like the Batmobile, but all those, after the F 40, it's like they couldn't
• 1:38:04
  figure out what to do because the F 40 was so perfect and so timeless, you know?
• 1:38:09
  You know, it's funny, Eric, sorry Chris to drag this back, but going back to
• 1:38:12
  the Lamborghini, the Diablo was that moment for Lamborghini where they sort
• 1:38:17
  of said, God, what do we do after Kunta?
• 1:38:20
  And I think that was where the F 50 fell.
• 1:38:22
  After you did that F 40.
• 1:38:24
  What do you do?
• 1:38:24
  Throw air conditioning in it and a stereo call it a day.
• 1:38:27
  Well, it also had hood scoops.
• 1:38:29
  That's right.
• 1:38:30
  Yeah.
• 1:38:31
  I mean the hood scoops in the air conditioning.
• 1:38:33
  Totally different.
• 1:38:34
  Yeah.
• 1:38:34
  Yeah.
• 1:38:34
  Totally different car.
• 1:38:36
  Totally different car.
• 1:38:37
  Ferrari has kinda lost its way in the last 20 years to
• 1:38:40
  build an SUV for Christ's sake.
• 1:38:42
  Yeah, but they sell.
• 1:38:43
  And you gotta think that's what they need now is that money.
• 1:38:46
  Even, even Lamborghini is building an SUV, the uterus or
• 1:38:49
  uterus, however you wanna say it.
• 1:38:50
  I think that's actually a pretty damn cool car.
• 1:38:53
  I really, really do.
• 1:38:54
  It has that little bit of that unforgiving, edgy look.
• 1:38:58
  As one of our previous guests.
• 1:38:59
  Put it, Don, it's the prettiest Pontiac.
• 1:39:02
  Aztec.
• 1:39:04
  It's, it really Is it really?
• 1:39:07
  But it'll go 200 miles an hour.
• 1:39:08
  Is that such a big deal these days?
• 1:39:10
  I'm not sure that it's, and you have the cache of saying, I've got a Lamborghini.
• 1:39:14
  And let's face it, the last time Lamborghini builds an SUV, it
• 1:39:16
  was called the LM oh oh two.
• 1:39:19
  It was the precursor to the Hummer, the Stallone Mobile.
• 1:39:22
  That thing was something else, but it was built for the, uh, the,
• 1:39:25
  was it the Saudi Arabian army?
• 1:39:27
  Saudi Arabian, yeah.
• 1:39:28
  Army.
• 1:39:28
  They wanted this car and then they said, no, we don't want it.
• 1:39:31
  And Lamborghini said, I bet we can sell this thing.
• 1:39:33
  They made like 50 of those.
• 1:39:35
  Wow.
• 1:39:36
  Yeah.
• 1:39:36
  They actually put it out there.
• 1:39:38
  Wasn't it?
• 1:39:38
  Code named the cheetah or something like that?
• 1:39:40
  Yeah, cheetah.
• 1:39:41
  Yeah.
• 1:39:42
  Very good.
• 1:39:42
  Yeah, that was the cheetah.
• 1:39:43
  Yeah.
• 1:39:44
  So you gotta admit, going from the LM oh oh two to the Uras,
• 1:39:48
  boy, that's a hell of a leap.
• 1:39:49
  You know that.
• 1:39:50
  That really is.
• 1:39:51
  And again, the LM oh oh two, the Ferrari SUV, which was the company that
• 1:39:56
  put high performance SUVs on the map.
• 1:39:58
  Oh, was it Porsche?
• 1:40:00
  Porsche, yeah.
• 1:40:02
  Who made all the nine 11 guy?
• 1:40:04
  Oh my God.
• 1:40:05
  They're building an SUV.
• 1:40:06
  Oh Jesus.
• 1:40:08
  And it was horrible for them.
• 1:40:09
  But you know what?
• 1:40:10
  Ooh, damn.
• 1:40:11
  If those Porsche don't bring in the cash tore, they totally bring the cash tore.
• 1:40:17
  Just wanna point that out.
• 1:40:18
  The Cayenne is a tore.
• 1:40:20
  It is.
• 1:40:21
  You can't compare the LM oh two to the Euros.
• 1:40:23
  Theor is just an Audi.
• 1:40:25
  Yeah, it's a Q seven or whatever.
• 1:40:26
  Yeah, exactly.
• 1:40:27
  Yeah.
• 1:40:27
  But, but that actually brings up a really good point that
• 1:40:29
  I wanted to touch on earlier.
• 1:40:30
  We're gonna go back to the fantasy cars.
• 1:40:32
  Stellantis has the opportunity to mimic the GM model of the tier system.
• 1:40:40
  And I really truly believe, to answer Brad's question from before about the
• 1:40:43
  Maserati Quattroporte, does he fit in it and this and that, I think Maserati
• 1:40:47
  should actually stop building cars and be the SUV brand for Stellantis
• 1:40:52
  because they're, they're, again, they're gonna start competing with themselves.
• 1:40:54
  Alpha has the Stelvio Ferrari's come out with their thing.
• 1:40:57
  Then there's the ana, which is gonna be dubbed here as the Hornet.
• 1:41:01
  It's like, no, no, no.
• 1:41:01
  Split it up.
• 1:41:02
  Ferrari makes the sports cars like Porsche.
• 1:41:05
  VW makes the econo boxes.
• 1:41:06
  Audi makes the luxury cars.
• 1:41:08
  Stellantis needs to do the same thing with Piat, Maserati, Ferrari, and
• 1:41:12
  all the brands that are under their umbrella right now, they, they've gone
• 1:41:16
  in the other direction with releasing their latest exotic Maserati, right.
• 1:41:21
  A hundred percent.
• 1:41:21
  But the Maserati SUV actually looks good.
• 1:41:24
  I like that fish.
• 1:41:25
  Look it, it works for that thing.
• 1:41:26
  It doesn't work as a sedan, in my opinion.
• 1:41:29
  But let's put that aside.
• 1:41:30
  Let's get back to fantasy land, William, and I'm not, I'm not trying
• 1:41:33
  to downplay where you're coming from.
• 1:41:35
  Throw us some bargain cars.
• 1:41:37
  Two 15 and above.
• 1:41:38
  Bargain.
• 1:41:38
  Bargain two 15 and above.
• 1:41:40
  Uh, Bugatti.
• 1:41:40
  EB one 10.
• 1:41:41
  That's French.
• 1:41:42
  Oh, the original.
• 1:41:45
  The original EV one 10 French.
• 1:41:47
  Sorry.
• 1:41:47
  You want, you wanna throw it out there?
• 1:41:48
  It's just, I, I just, you know, to me, I just think that's a great card.
• 1:41:52
  I, I just, if you wanna go above, we gotta keep it Italian.
• 1:41:55
  There's a lot of cards on top of my head trying to go constant.
• 1:41:58
  Even Italian.
• 1:41:59
  What about the Daytona, the 360 fives?
• 1:42:01
  Where are they clocking it at?
• 1:42:02
  Oh, you wanna go old or wherever?
• 1:42:04
  Wherever you want to go, man.
• 1:42:06
  Take us on a journey here.
• 1:42:07
  Take me on a trip.
• 1:42:09
  Miami Vice.
• 1:42:10
  We are 1984.
• 1:42:11
  Let's go.
• 1:42:12
  You can't be a 2 75 GTP four camp.
• 1:42:14
  Those things drive phenomenal.
• 1:42:17
  That's a car you could drive.
• 1:42:18
  I don't wanna say on a daily basis, but that's a car you
• 1:42:20
  could drive around continuously.
• 1:42:22
  It's not gonna beat you up.
• 1:42:24
  The motor's fantastic.
• 1:42:25
  You don't have to worry about keeping up in the revs.
• 1:42:26
  Great, great engine in that car.
• 1:42:28
  You wanna get really crazy.
• 1:42:29
  Start getting into like a, a two 50 California drop top Paris fueler.
• 1:42:33
  That's just a dream card, you know.
• 1:42:35
  You really wanna get obnoxious, you go to the two 50 GTO, you know, you start
• 1:42:38
  getting into those type of cars, but you get that say the two 50 to seven 50 range.
• 1:42:44
  Here's my thought on pricing on these cars to be some of these cars.
• 1:42:47
  I don't understand how they're priced where they're at
• 1:42:49
  because I just don't see it.
• 1:42:51
  But, you know, the market's gonna dictate what something's worth.
• 1:42:54
  So let me ask you this.
• 1:42:55
  What's the card that you get requested the most to search for?
• 1:42:59
  At least in the Italian side?
• 1:43:00
  F 40.
• 1:43:01
  The 2 8 8 ETL.
• 1:43:02
  Wow, okay.
• 1:43:03
  Those are the two I probably get the most train trying to find.
• 1:43:07
  When you get to those cars, the next question is, okay, alright.
• 1:43:10
  How many owners mileage, original paint, you know, service, history, they
• 1:43:13
  really wanna start wheeling down and then you start getting cost wise, okay?
• 1:43:16
  Okay.
• 1:43:16
  I got one that's got six owners that's got, you know, 20,000 miles
• 1:43:19
  and this, that, okay, you're at 2.9.
• 1:43:21
  But then if you get a A two owner car, original paint, classy, certified
• 1:43:25
  red books, the whole nine yards.
• 1:43:27
  Okay?
• 1:43:27
  You're at 3.7, 3.8 million.
• 1:43:29
  It's gonna run the gamut on what someone wants to pay and
• 1:43:31
  what they wanna do with the car.
• 1:43:33
  And again, it's like not a lot of these people that buy this car really go out
• 1:43:36
  and they go, Hey, I'm gonna drive this thing and put miles on it, whatnot.
• 1:43:38
  No, they're buying it more as an investment than anything.
• 1:43:41
  They're gonna use it.
• 1:43:41
  They're gonna take it to shows.
• 1:43:43
  They want it to show their buddies and say, Hey look, I bought one.
• 1:43:45
  I finally got one.
• 1:43:46
  I'm part of the club.
• 1:43:47
  One of those situations, which is unfortunate because you should
• 1:43:49
  get out and drive the cars.
• 1:43:50
  What we said earlier in our conversation, you know, you need
• 1:43:53
  to go out and drive those cars.
• 1:43:54
  They're meant to be driven.
• 1:43:55
  It's a car, go out and enjoy it.
• 1:43:57
  But those are the ones that are really kind of get the most requests for,
• 1:44:01
  again, the person that's buying those now is the person that had those
• 1:44:04
  cars and those posters on the wall.
• 1:44:05
  People that are in fall, that age group between, you know, your late
• 1:44:09
  thirties, early forties, into your mid, late fifties, early sixties.
• 1:44:12
  They're gonna go after those eighties supercars.
• 1:44:15
  Hypercar that they grew up and they loved.
• 1:44:17
  The guy that's looking for the 2 75 is looking for the
• 1:44:20
  sixties front engine V twelves.
• 1:44:22
  That guy's looking to complete a collection.
• 1:44:24
  You know, he's got 20, 30 cars and that's one he needs to finish off.
• 1:44:28
  What he is looking, there's something special about it that he wants it,
• 1:44:30
  it's a different bar when he start getting into those level of cars, you
• 1:44:33
  know, it's not someone that's, that's the only one I'm ever gonna own.
• 1:44:37
  Yeah.
• 1:44:37
  I mean, you're gonna have your outlier here and there with someone.
• 1:44:40
  They're gonna put all the money into one car 'cause that's your dream car.
• 1:44:42
  It's a different type of buyer that's going in that market and buying
• 1:44:44
  those cars at that price point.
• 1:44:45
  If I'm looking in this exotic price point, the first thing that comes to mind for
• 1:44:49
  me, I don't know how they pronounce it.
• 1:44:52
  Is it MAT?
• 1:44:53
  Is it mat The Stratos remake.
• 1:44:56
  Oh yeah.
• 1:44:56
  That they do on top of the F four 30 chassis.
• 1:44:59
  So basically you give them a donor F four 30 and they give you back a Stratos ish.
• 1:45:06
  130% version type car.
• 1:45:09
  I think eight inches out of the chassis on the F four 30
• 1:45:12
  shorten the wheel base, you know?
• 1:45:14
  Yeah.
• 1:45:14
  It's stupid expensive Reviews I've read around it are like 500
• 1:45:18
  K British pounds on top of the donor car to get where they are.
• 1:45:23
  But for me, if I'm looking at stuff, I'd like to have it.
• 1:45:27
  It seems like a really, really well done version of that kind of car.
• 1:45:31
  Rather have that than just a Stratos proper.
• 1:45:34
  I mean, Arao is like 500 K. I'd rather have that wizzy
• 1:45:40
  V six right behind my head.
• 1:45:42
  Legit total rally heritage that DNA in there.
• 1:45:47
  I think that's a cool car.
• 1:45:48
  I like that car, but it's like I'd rather have for the same
• 1:45:52
  money you can have the real deal.
• 1:45:53
  That's fair.
• 1:45:54
  I think, I'm not sure how many public options they've really had
• 1:45:58
  for Estrada since the values of everything has gone up through the roof.
• 1:46:03
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:46:03
  Was it 500 K four years ago?
• 1:46:06
  Certainly it was.
• 1:46:07
  I'm not sure it would be 500 k today.
• 1:46:09
  I have a hard time finding public examples of that, that notwithstanding,
• 1:46:13
  they're two different cars, right?
• 1:46:15
  It's like owning the GT 40 from the early nineties versus the original one.
• 1:46:20
  They made a modern car that looked like the shape of the original GT 40
• 1:46:25
  didn't have all those compromises.
• 1:46:27
  You're looking at a lot of compromises to get into some mid seventies.
• 1:46:32
  Original Stratos versus F four 30 that they put body panels
• 1:46:37
  on to, to turn into a Stratos.
• 1:46:41
  You know, it, it, and it kind of brings up the whole idea of these like newer
• 1:46:44
  versions of things we were talking about that outlaw launch a, you know,
• 1:46:47
  an alcoholics GTA kind of thing where they go through and they take a, from
• 1:46:53
  the ground up, a brand new GTV bodied Alpha Romeo that's got carbon fiber,
• 1:46:58
  all the bits and bobs, and it's like, it's cool, but it's kind of like it's
• 1:47:02
  starting to fall into that rest od world where it's like, yeah, a hundred percent.
• 1:47:06
  I mean, the people are looking at what singer did with Porsche, right?
• 1:47:11
  And saying, can I do that?
• 1:47:13
  In these other market niches.
• 1:47:15
  Right.
• 1:47:15
  And in the Alpha Rome mayo and saying like, you know what, I'm gonna just redo
• 1:47:17
  all these body panels and carbon fiber.
• 1:47:19
  Right?
• 1:47:20
  I'll have Cosworth build this out and we're just gonna Yeah.
• 1:47:23
  I mean at that point it, you're getting them to absurdity land.
• 1:47:27
  It's an amazing place to be if you can afford to be there.
• 1:47:31
  Yeah.
• 1:47:31
  Don, you've been very quiet.
• 1:47:33
  Yeah.
• 1:47:33
  He hasn't found another American car pinned by an an Italian yet.
• 1:47:38
  I was just looking on eBay.
• 1:47:40
  Of course, some antes for sale.
• 1:47:43
  I'm gonna be going out to Palm Springs, have a steak in a few martinis, and I
• 1:47:47
  want a nice new ante to take out there.
• 1:47:49
  And I'm debating 4.9 liter or North Star and that.
• 1:47:52
  That's my big problem today.
• 1:47:55
  Oh my God.
• 1:47:56
  I think I threw up in my mouth a little bit.
• 1:47:59
  I'll pay you a car that we haven't brought up.
• 1:48:01
  I think I'm in the right price range here.
• 1:48:03
  I think it's called Maserati Mc 12.
• 1:48:05
  Remember those cars?
• 1:48:07
  Yeah.
• 1:48:07
  They're reintroducing a new one.
• 1:48:09
  Yeah, they, they built like 25 of 'em, if I remember correctly, and
• 1:48:12
  then they built another 25 later on.
• 1:48:14
  I always thought those were kind of a neat car because it, it was, you know,
• 1:48:17
  it's almost goes back to that category of what kind of car is that, you know, you
• 1:48:21
  pull into a car and coffee and a lot of people might wonder, is that a Ferrari?
• 1:48:25
  That a Lamborghini?
• 1:48:25
  What is that thing?
• 1:48:27
  And then he saw a Maserati.
• 1:48:28
  Oh, a Maserati.
• 1:48:30
  You know, they'd never seen it before.
• 1:48:31
  And that's kind of fun.
• 1:48:32
  I don't know, I just wondered what you guys thought about that.
• 1:48:34
  I, I think they're hugely overpriced, but you know, I'm an ante guy.
• 1:48:38
  It's a bloated end zone.
• 1:48:40
  Yeah.
• 1:48:40
  Yeah, it is.
• 1:48:41
  It's bigger, it's wider.
• 1:48:43
  I mean, it's just, it's a bloated end zone.
• 1:48:44
  The new one seems better, has a better spec, I think.
• 1:48:47
  But I haven't paid too close of attention to it.
• 1:48:50
  I believe the mc 12 put down a better lap time around the top
• 1:48:53
  gear test track than the Enzo did.
• 1:48:55
  Yes, it did.
• 1:48:56
  Yeah.
• 1:48:57
  Well, they were able to obviously take the Enzo, they were able to, I would say,
• 1:49:00
  tweak it, make the adjustments to it.
• 1:49:03
  To make it a better handling car, and that was one that they actually took basically
• 1:49:07
  to go racing, whereas the Enzo wasn't.
• 1:49:09
  So that's what they wanted to do is make that thing better.
• 1:49:11
  So because they wanted to take that thing racing and it was
• 1:49:14
  actually extremely successful.
• 1:49:16
  I think it was like three straight championships or something.
• 1:49:18
  I mean, it was really successful in their series of racing.
• 1:49:20
  Then how much of that is just tires?
• 1:49:22
  This is an honest question.
• 1:49:24
  If you put Michelin Sport Cup to r. Tires on that original Ferrari in the
• 1:49:31
  mid nineties or whatever the hell was, what, what would be its lap time then?
• 1:49:35
  No, that's a good point.
• 1:49:36
  Especially this day and age.
• 1:49:37
  I mean, 'cause you got so many different compounds and
• 1:49:39
  everything you can put on a car.
• 1:49:40
  That would be really interesting to see.
• 1:49:41
  Just, you know, put it down to tires.
• 1:49:43
  I would say a, a good percentage of it could come down to tires.
• 1:49:46
  What you have on it.
• 1:49:47
  Remember a couple of years back when Chris Harris went to Port Mau and
• 1:49:50
  took the McLaren, the Ferrari and the Porsche hypercar and like tested 'em
• 1:49:57
  and then they had to mandate, it's like no one could bring their own rubber.
• 1:50:01
  They had to like, use Yeah, those guys were not happy about it, but, well, you
• 1:50:05
  got a lot of cars today that they're built around the tires basically.
• 1:50:09
  Start with those that go to what that car's gonna be specked with and go
• 1:50:12
  from there to what that thing can do.
• 1:50:14
  You know, you get cup twos on there.
• 1:50:15
  I mean, those things aren't gonna last.
• 1:50:17
  What?
• 1:50:17
  Maybe 2,500 miles?
• 1:50:19
  1500 miles?
• 1:50:20
  I've got 9,000 on a pair of cup twos right now.
• 1:50:23
  Oh, you do?
• 1:50:24
  I do.
• 1:50:26
  He didn't tell you that they were corded, but you know, whatever.
• 1:50:28
  No, I, I just had service.
• 1:50:30
  They told me they were doing great.
• 1:50:32
  I asked him if I needed a new set and hoping they would say no.
• 1:50:37
  Kind of going back to these Italian collector cars.
• 1:50:40
  I don't know that there is one right answer.
• 1:50:42
  I really do think it goes back to what William was saying early on.
• 1:50:46
  It's what you wanna do.
• 1:50:49
  Don's racing to say it 'cause the answer's Cadillac.
• 1:50:52
  No, it is not a Cadillac.
• 1:50:54
  This time.
• 1:50:54
  Eric, you challenged me and you said Don has run out of America.
• 1:50:58
  No, I'd like to contend, I'd like to offer up for your consideration.
• 1:51:03
  All right.
• 1:51:04
  Let me guess.
• 1:51:04
  The Oldsmobile Thor or the Chevrolet Testo or any of these concept cars
• 1:51:10
  that never made it to reality?
• 1:51:12
  There is the Oldsmobile tro.
• 1:51:14
  Oh geez.
• 1:51:14
  Which has an Italian name, but that's an American car.
• 1:51:17
  I'm not gonna bring that up.
• 1:51:17
  No, you said penned.
• 1:51:19
  Okay, so I wanna bring up the Ford Granada gia.
• 1:51:24
  Oh God.
• 1:51:24
  The Mustang two Gia.
• 1:51:26
  Uh, okay.
• 1:51:27
  These are all classy cars that you can run around in for 5,000 bucks.
• 1:51:31
  Mint condition.
• 1:51:32
  These are wonderful cars.
• 1:51:33
  If my Italian was worse, I would say that Gia was synonymous with
• 1:51:37
  trash, but you know, hey, whatever.
• 1:51:40
  There's certain design houses that I favor over others.
• 1:51:44
  Let's just put it that way.
• 1:51:45
  And there are a ton of Italian designers out there, and I think that's.
• 1:51:49
  Also the beauty in some of this, right?
• 1:51:51
  We've talked about on other episodes where you know, there's collaborations
• 1:51:53
  between Porsche and Mercedes and BM BMW and Toyota and all sorts of stuff.
• 1:51:57
  But in the old days it's kind of like when you realize that the Bee
• 1:52:01
  Gees wrote half of the music for everybody in the seventies and they
• 1:52:04
  never really took credit for it.
• 1:52:06
  There's a lot of Italian designers that did the same thing for auto
• 1:52:09
  manufacturers all over the world, whether it was Volkswagen or Subaru
• 1:52:13
  or Fiat, so on down the lines.
• 1:52:15
  And it's kind of neat when you dig into that side of it.
• 1:52:18
  So I think we've been exposed to Italian cars, at least Italian design
• 1:52:22
  cars for a lot longer than we realize.
• 1:52:24
  But it goes back to what William was saying earlier, it kind of depends
• 1:52:27
  on what you wanna do with this thing.
• 1:52:28
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:52:29
  It seems like money is no object when it comes to an Italian car.
• 1:52:32
  I mean, pick your poison gray market cars, there's a million of them.
• 1:52:35
  It really depends on what you're interested in.
• 1:52:37
  I mean, me personally, you know, we were talking about the Alpha Sz.
• 1:52:40
  I wouldn't import one as much as I wanna drive one.
• 1:52:42
  I mean, please, somebody hand me the keys.
• 1:52:44
  I wanna drive my hero.
• 1:52:46
  But if I had to choose, I'd buy a later Alpha Romera because
• 1:52:50
  it's the evolution of the sz.
• 1:52:51
  It's a little bit more easy on the eyes.
• 1:52:54
  It has all the right stuff, and none of the weird quirks of the nineties,
• 1:52:58
  you know, that kind of thing.
• 1:52:59
  There's some understated cars like the Lama as an example, right?
• 1:53:03
  It's a watered down Alpha Romeo sedan that can be hot rotted out.
• 1:53:07
  It has the same motor as the Alpha, the 1 64, stuff like that.
• 1:53:10
  There's so many neat cars, but I think people need to take the time to
• 1:53:15
  look into them and see what excites them and what they can get into.
• 1:53:18
  And I think services like what Chris provides, where if you're
• 1:53:22
  interested in the older cars, he's breathing a second, if not a third
• 1:53:26
  life into a lot of these vehicles.
• 1:53:28
  By making the parts more accessible in a global way for people that were like,
• 1:53:32
  I could never afford to work on that as easy as a a Fiat eight 50 or 1 24.
• 1:53:36
  You know?
• 1:53:36
  I don't know where to get the parts for that.
• 1:53:38
  These places exist, you're looking for.
• 1:53:40
  Exotic.
• 1:53:41
  You call William up and say, Hey man, I want a 2 88 GTO.
• 1:53:45
  You know, he's got all the answers.
• 1:53:47
  It's a lot more challenging because we put up these artificial roadblocks, unlike we
• 1:53:52
  do for A BMW or a Porsche or a Mercedes, where they have reached an established
• 1:53:57
  supercar status long time ago than nine 11 is no longer the every man Porsche.
• 1:54:02
  I mean, the 9 44 was, but it's supercar status.
• 1:54:05
  Now the Corvette has transcended, right?
• 1:54:07
  If you look at its price tag, $150,000 for a Corvette.
• 1:54:10
  You know, things like that.
• 1:54:11
  So I wanna wrap this up in some way, but I think it's, it's hard because we seem
• 1:54:16
  to wax poetic about all these cars, but we haven't come to any sort of conclusion.
• 1:54:20
  I think you hit it right there.
• 1:54:21
  We wax poetic.
• 1:54:23
  You know, if there's one thing that I think we can all agree on, and I think
• 1:54:27
  we've all been around the block a few times with a few different cars, a
• 1:54:30
  few different nations who build cars.
• 1:54:32
  Nothing drives like an Italian car.
• 1:54:34
  Nothing.
• 1:54:35
  Absolutely.
• 1:54:36
  They have a feel, they have an intuitiveness, they have a certain
• 1:54:40
  earthiness, if you will, to them.
• 1:54:42
  And I don't care if you're talking about my little fiat or that mc
• 1:54:45
  12, that there's gonna be that.
• 1:54:47
  Certain something that lets you know you're driving an
• 1:54:49
  Italian car and it's wonderful.
• 1:54:52
  I mean, they, to me, they drive better than any other car on the planet.
• 1:54:56
  I mean, there's a reason I've had my car for 28 years, you know, and,
• 1:54:59
  and it's the lowly little fiat.
• 1:55:01
  I can only imagine what some of the other cars are like.
• 1:55:03
  You know, Eric, you correct me if I'm wrong, but the Italians
• 1:55:05
  are also a very emotional mm-hmm.
• 1:55:07
  They're very passionate about what they do.
• 1:55:10
  And when they build a car, you know, we were making jokes about them early.
• 1:55:13
  This is what I'm gonna do today, and, uh, that's it.
• 1:55:14
  I build three, I'm done.
• 1:55:15
  Well, they're onto the next thing because they're done up here.
• 1:55:19
  They're done, they've done it, they've built it.
• 1:55:21
  Let's go onto the next thing and good, bad, or indifferent.
• 1:55:24
  As car people.
• 1:55:25
  You've gotta love them for that because that's just how they do it.
• 1:55:28
  The French are very much the same way, but we're not talking about them.
• 1:55:31
  We're talking about the Italian and the Germans just keep
• 1:55:34
  refining bad ideas forever.
• 1:55:36
  You know, like the nine 11, come on, I'm not gonna go there.
• 1:55:40
  But, uh, you know, okay.
• 1:55:41
  Germans make bad ideas.
• 1:55:43
  Good.
• 1:55:44
  Eventually, eventually.
• 1:55:45
  Is that what far Figan translates to?
• 1:55:47
  Yeah.
• 1:55:49
  But you know, I, I think that's what it boils down to.
• 1:55:51
  And to William's point, what's your goal?
• 1:55:53
  Okay.
• 1:55:53
  We can bring up the Diablos and the Mc twelves and the GTOs and all
• 1:55:57
  this other stuff to Kingdom come.
• 1:55:59
  I think at the end of the day, if we're talking to somebody who's gonna be
• 1:56:02
  buying their first collector Italian car, yeah, it depends on the bank role.
• 1:56:07
  And yes, William, it depends on their goal, but I think what we need to think
• 1:56:10
  about is what's gonna make 'em come back for more, what's the car that we can put
• 1:56:15
  them in, that they're gonna say, wow, this is the coolest thing in the world.
• 1:56:19
  I wonder what it'd be like, you know, having the fiat, everyone always said,
• 1:56:23
  well, why don't you get an Alpha Romeo?
• 1:56:24
  That seems to be the next step up.
• 1:56:26
  I don't know.
• 1:56:27
  I just never did.
• 1:56:28
  It's not that I don't like them, I, I just sort of got
• 1:56:30
  married to the Fiat and that's.
• 1:56:32
  Where I've been.
• 1:56:33
  I think you hit the nail on the head, and we can do another
• 1:56:36
  gladiator vote here in a minute.
• 1:56:38
  But I think the answer to all of this actually lies in the halls of Alpha
• 1:56:44
  Rome, because like BMW, as we said earlier as a joke, it's the Italian BMW.
• 1:56:50
  There's, it's something for everybody there between station wagons, compacts,
• 1:56:55
  hatchbacks, full sedans, luxury.
• 1:56:59
  They've got it all.
• 1:57:00
  You have to decide which one you want.
• 1:57:02
  And they all exude that Italian passion and that flare for design.
• 1:57:06
  They're not ugly cars.
• 1:57:07
  Their sporty cars just like BMWs, right?
• 1:57:09
  They've gone through their phases.
• 1:57:10
  They had their Bengal period too.
• 1:57:12
  The answer always sort of goes back to Alpha Romeo at the end of the day, and.
• 1:57:17
  I guess we lost Chris.
• 1:57:19
  Mark.
• 1:57:19
  What did you do, mark?
• 1:57:21
  Bring Chris back.
• 1:57:22
  I was texting him.
• 1:57:24
  I think I sufficiently offended him that he just left, but I, I think
• 1:57:28
  that's where people need to divert their attention is look at Alpha Rome male.
• 1:57:32
  Look at what they're putting out.
• 1:57:34
  They just released spy photos of the new Duetto.
• 1:57:36
  There's a lot of progress still being made under that brand.
• 1:57:40
  It's been around a long time.
• 1:57:41
  It's over a hundred years old.
• 1:57:43
  It's one of the older car manufacturers, so don't take that for granted.
• 1:57:47
  There's a lot of racing pedigree there.
• 1:57:49
  There's a lot of refinement.
• 1:57:50
  Some of the best engines, some of the best sounding engines on the
• 1:57:53
  planet come out of that manufacturer.
• 1:57:55
  Well, and you know, you brought up age Italian car manufacturing.
• 1:57:59
  Fiat is 1899.
• 1:58:01
  Yeah, alpha Romeo is right there with them.
• 1:58:03
  Maserati is not far off.
• 1:58:05
  Ferrari, what is that, 49?
• 1:58:07
  I think they were established 48 or the new kid on the block.
• 1:58:09
  Yeah.
• 1:58:10
  And you know, you wanna talk new kid, God, Lamborghini 63.
• 1:58:14
  You know, they're brand new compared to everything else.
• 1:58:16
  But yeah, Italian car manufacturing has been there for a long time.
• 1:58:19
  There's a reason when you drive an Italian car, it feels like an Italian car.
• 1:58:23
  You know, you made the joke about the by Turbo for the five minutes that it runs.
• 1:58:26
  It's fantastic.
• 1:58:27
  That Fantastic does transcend, you know, it really, really does.
• 1:58:32
  And I, I think Alpha's a great place for any, anybody looking
• 1:58:35
  for that first Italian car.
• 1:58:36
  I think Alpha would be a great place.
• 1:58:38
  'cause there is such a variety.
• 1:58:39
  And not to be the biased guy, but I think you're foolish to discount Fiat
• 1:58:43
  because again, you've got a whole bunch of different personalities, a whole
• 1:58:45
  bunch of different cars, whole bunch of different price ranges, et cetera.
• 1:58:48
  You know, William, you brought it up, you, you've got the Fiat
• 1:58:51
  Dino as well, and I brought it up.
• 1:58:53
  We have the Fiat one 30, so we have some different ones, but Eric is right.
• 1:58:57
  The sound, the performance, the refinement that you're gonna find in Alpha Romeo.
• 1:59:02
  You know, you're going out of the Volkswagen realm into the BM BMW
• 1:59:05
  realm and that's where you are.
• 1:59:07
  So yeah, I, I think we can definitely agree.
• 1:59:09
  Anybody looking for that first time collective car?
• 1:59:11
  Italian?
• 1:59:12
  Yeah.
• 1:59:13
  I, I think if you tell 'em, you know, look to the Alpha Romeo School, I
• 1:59:15
  think you'd be good because you've got that age, you've got the engineering.
• 1:59:19
  Do you want a GT car?
• 1:59:20
  Do you want a family car, a, a touring car, or do you want an all out sports car?
• 1:59:25
  They've got something for you.
• 1:59:27
  Yeah.
• 1:59:27
  And then that product support's out there too.
• 1:59:29
  You got so many, uh, out there that, you know, aftermarket suppliers and
• 1:59:32
  manufacture parts and to do whatever you want to 'em, it's out there also.
• 1:59:35
  So it's not that you're gonna be left high and dry.
• 1:59:37
  So that's what's fantastic too about it.
• 1:59:38
  I agree.
• 1:59:39
  And Alpha is a great route to go.
• 1:59:40
  And Alpha, they're still racing.
• 1:59:42
  Look at the fan base in Formula One.
• 1:59:44
  I mean, they're still alive and well.
• 1:59:46
  People who are in Ferrari don't realize that Inza Ferrari started working
• 1:59:50
  as the race director for Alpha Mayo.
• 1:59:52
  Right?
• 1:59:52
  You know, it's like basically Vitor Yano went and got
• 1:59:56
  launch and started that V six.
• 1:59:58
  It started that whole program, which then turned in to the Ferrari Formula
• 2:00:01
  One team in 1956 with D 50 that then became the V six vein of the Ferrari.
• 2:00:08
  It's like not all paths lead to Alpha Mayo, but.
• 2:00:11
  A lot of the Italian heritage and, and I think the, the charisma
• 2:00:15
  and also that drivability that Don, you were really getting at,
• 2:00:18
  it's like that ethos is in there.
• 2:00:21
  It's really comes out of that house.
• 2:00:23
  And in fact, Enzo Ferrari was more of the mind of we'll build a more powerful
• 2:00:27
  engine and that'll make us win races.
• 2:00:29
  And you know, alpha was more, we're gonna build a car that.
• 2:00:32
  People can drive that our drivers can take around a track and
• 2:00:36
  is balanced and has that right ergonomics to make them be successful.
• 2:00:40
  And that has been their gift to the whole Italian car industry in that era.
• 2:00:45
  Building on that Chris Alpha too, if you buy one of their sedans, be
• 2:00:49
  it the, I don't know, the Julia, be it, the Milano be at the The 1 64.
• 2:00:54
  The 1 64 is always one of my favorite cars.
• 2:00:56
  You're gonna have a wonderful driving experience.
• 2:00:59
  You can still take the family out to dinner or you can still,
• 2:01:02
  you know, enjoy a car and coffee.
• 2:01:03
  You can go all over the map with that car.
• 2:01:06
  You're not stuck in a run of the mill cookie cutter kind of car.
• 2:01:08
  You've got something very special.
• 2:01:10
  And they do move and they do handle, and they do have that passion and, and that
• 2:01:14
  it's just an irreplaceable bit of Italy.
• 2:01:16
  I can honestly say I imprinted on Alpha at an early age.
• 2:01:20
  You know, I was driving age, I guess you could say, but I drove my grandfather's
• 2:01:24
  Alpha 33 up in the mountains of Italy, and it's one of those unforgettable drives.
• 2:01:28
  It wasn't the most fantastic alpha male on the planet, but it was unlike
• 2:01:31
  anything else I had ever driven.
• 2:01:33
  And at that point I had driven a ton of cars because I started
• 2:01:36
  running cars at an early age.
• 2:01:38
  To me, I was like, this is really cool.
• 2:01:39
  It was a driver's car, even as a basic sedan, but you could rip through
• 2:01:44
  the mountains and that again, a high strung twin cam, four cylinder.
• 2:01:48
  It was a joy to drive.
• 2:01:49
  I walked away from it and it just, I still remember it to this day.
• 2:01:52
  And that was nearly shoot 20 years ago, right.
• 2:01:55
  Or more now.
• 2:01:56
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:01:56
  That I haven't driven that car.
• 2:01:57
  And it's just like, it still just leaves that impression on you.
• 2:02:00
  I imagine you even when you're 16 with a full thick beard.
• 2:02:04
  Oh dude, this came, this came in at like eighth grade.
• 2:02:07
  Man, come on now.
• 2:02:12
  You know, I, I'll just say I live out in Oregon and Sports Car Market
• 2:02:16
  magazine had a SCM 1000 and we had an amazing array of cars from John.
• 2:02:21
  Shirley's like $30 million cow spider.
• 2:02:25
  You know, it's like one of the world's most important cars down to little
• 2:02:30
  alpha Mayo spiders and stuff, and I was driving a 1965 Julius Spider Veloce.
• 2:02:36
  Just a charming, beautiful car with 1.6 liter engine and a
• 2:02:40
  perfectly tuned gear box that just engaged in the steering was tight.
• 2:02:45
  It's one of the greatest driving experiences you'll ever have.
• 2:02:48
  Just full stop.
• 2:02:50
  Get your REOs listeners.
• 2:02:51
  So there's something we haven't talked about, which is if you are a
• 2:02:54
  first time buyer, are you looking at financing and and how does that work?
• 2:02:58
  There's this weird gap in financing that I experienced when I was in my
• 2:03:02
  twenties and trying to buy cars that maybe weren't the best, you know,
• 2:03:06
  financial decision that I was making at the time, but I did it anyway.
• 2:03:09
  You know, you can go through a major bank kind of up to like
• 2:03:12
  seven years old and then after that they don't wanna finance it.
• 2:03:15
  And classic car financing kind of starts at like the 25 year range
• 2:03:21
  and one financing can make these things a lot more affordable.
• 2:03:23
  It's one thing to say you've saved $30,000 in cash and you're willing
• 2:03:27
  to put all of that into a car.
• 2:03:29
  And it's another thing entirely to say that, yeah, you know, I'll make
• 2:03:32
  my $600 a month car payment on, you know, this car versus that car.
• 2:03:37
  Getting back to what we were talking about with Alphas, you know, as we
• 2:03:40
  talk about kind of, you know, the more obtainable under 50 K range you get the
• 2:03:44
  quadr folio, the foresee that falls into your more traditional financing realm.
• 2:03:48
  I personally think the nineties have the most upside.
• 2:03:51
  William said it earlier in regards to, you know, the age groups of the
• 2:03:54
  people that are buying this stuff.
• 2:03:55
  The people that are coming into the money, they're coming into the strongest
• 2:03:59
  buying position of their career.
• 2:04:01
  The cars they were looking at that they wanted were nineties cars, right?
• 2:04:05
  You've got nineties gtv.
• 2:04:07
  Very cool V sixes, gorgeous headers and great sound.
• 2:04:11
  Things that you can look at from that perspective that are actually falling
• 2:04:14
  into classic car financing range.
• 2:04:15
  I bought an 85,009 11 in 2009 or whatever using classic car financing and it was the
• 2:04:24
  youngest car they were willing to finance.
• 2:04:26
  I had to actually like talk to them, be like, explain to them, no, this was
• 2:04:30
  the date it was built and therefore it meets your 25 year age requirement
• 2:04:34
  and you can finance me for it.
• 2:04:36
  And after that they were totally cool and I got a loan and five
• 2:04:39
  years later I'd paid it off.
• 2:04:41
  That enabled me to get into that 85 9 11 that I wouldn't have
• 2:04:44
  been able to get into otherwise.
• 2:04:46
  I didn't have 25 grand in cash that I was gonna spend on that without it.
• 2:04:50
  So, William, do you want to chime in on that from the financing perspective?
• 2:04:54
  'cause I mean, you deal with this stuff all the time.
• 2:04:55
  Not really.
• 2:04:56
  He's all cash transactions.
• 2:04:58
  Oh, under millions in cash.
• 2:05:00
  They just show up with a dumb truck full of cash at the other guy's
• 2:05:03
  house and leaving their driveway.
• 2:05:06
  I mean No, it's a good point.
• 2:05:07
  Fact is, you know, I mean obviously to get into it though, you're
• 2:05:09
  gonna have to find that route.
• 2:05:10
  I mean especially it's rates you get.
• 2:05:12
  I mean now lately this day and age, they've kind of got
• 2:05:14
  up 'cause what's going on.
• 2:05:15
  But money's still relatively cheap and you know, if you can finance it out and sit
• 2:05:20
  on your money a little bit to keep it for it, I would recommend going that route.
• 2:05:23
  But there are so many classic car financing out there.
• 2:05:26
  Pick up Sports Car Marketplace.
• 2:05:28
  You pick up any of the magazines out there, you're gonna find the
• 2:05:30
  advertisements for these companies.
• 2:05:32
  Just you call around.
• 2:05:33
  Shop around like you would anything, if you're getting a mortgage or
• 2:05:35
  whatnot, find who's gonna best rate.
• 2:05:37
  Some people are gonna be a little more flexible on how old the car is,
• 2:05:40
  what they're gonna be able to do.
• 2:05:41
  So it's get the best terms you can and some of it's gonna support you too,
• 2:05:45
  but not financing it but ensuring it.
• 2:05:47
  Also, it's gonna be the other big thing you wanna kind of look at.
• 2:05:49
  Will they give you the value of what's their total value
• 2:05:52
  on the insurance is a big one.
• 2:05:53
  Yeah.
• 2:05:54
  If it gets totaled, what's it worth?
• 2:05:55
  And then the other part of exotic car financing that almost doesn't get talked
• 2:05:59
  about nearly enough is the idea that when you make a claim, they also owe
• 2:06:03
  you for the depreciated value of the car as a result of you making the claim.
• 2:06:07
  I don't know how, I'd never really heard about this until
• 2:06:09
  I got into the community a bit.
• 2:06:11
  It's a huge thing that isn't talked about enough and they will
• 2:06:13
  certainly not tell you about it.
• 2:06:15
  And your friends who own Honda Accords are never gonna tell you about it.
• 2:06:18
  'cause obviously they don't experience it.
• 2:06:20
  Depending on your car, it could be a large percentage that that car's
• 2:06:24
  gonna appreciate after the fact.
• 2:06:25
  Especially if it was a car that had never been an accident, nothing
• 2:06:27
  all of a sudden, you know, it's got this, depending on the extent, but
• 2:06:30
  a lot of people won't touch a car.
• 2:06:32
  It's been in an accident gauging what your depreciation was just because it was in
• 2:06:36
  an accident too, plays a key role because it's, if you get an accident with your
• 2:06:40
  insurance, you wanna be sure that you're gonna get that value also back because
• 2:06:43
  it could be a nice amount of money.
• 2:06:45
  Well gentlemen, I think it's time to do a quick lightning round.
• 2:06:49
  As we close this thing out, I'm gonna give you two options.
• 2:06:53
  Your number one alpha male pick for this newbie collector or soon to be adding
• 2:06:59
  an Alpha male to their collection.
• 2:07:01
  And then the second car is that Pinnacle just over the top.
• 2:07:06
  You had to buy one Italian car and money was no object.
• 2:07:10
  What would that be?
• 2:07:11
  Crisp, bright.
• 2:07:12
  You know, there's so many great entry points with Alpha.
• 2:07:14
  Most of them are still in a pretty reasonable range.
• 2:07:17
  If I were to recommend one, I would probably go with like a
• 2:07:21
  1968 to 72 GTV 1750 engine right around the 30 K range can go up.
• 2:07:32
  If there's one that's really super sorted and fresh, great car, you'll have fun.
• 2:07:36
  It looks gorgeous and it's just a great entry point and I think Alpha
• 2:07:41
  is a really good and supportive.
• 2:07:43
  Mark.
• 2:07:44
  You know, I'm the president of the Alpha Club for Oregon where I live.
• 2:07:48
  If you're interested in getting one call the club first 'cause they're
• 2:07:51
  turning over and people will look out for you and they'll also recommend the
• 2:07:55
  right mechanics and things like that.
• 2:07:57
  In terms of like the, the car.
• 2:08:00
  Oh, there's, there's a few.
• 2:08:03
  You get three max if you're gonna go there.
• 2:08:05
  Oh three.
• 2:08:06
  I thought you just number one.
• 2:08:08
  Alright, I'll go pre-war.
• 2:08:10
  I'll go with an pre-war, the, oh man, Napoleon.
• 2:08:14
  We're going pre Napoleon.
• 2:08:16
  Nope.
• 2:08:16
  Pre-war.
• 2:08:17
  I'll go Alpha Romeo.
• 2:08:18
  P three fifties.
• 2:08:20
  I'll go with a Maserati 300 s and more modern.
• 2:08:26
  I don't know if I'll even go modern.
• 2:08:27
  I love the 2 88, but if I could get an Al Alpha Romeo 33 Rad.
• 2:08:32
  I think that could be the most beautiful car.
• 2:08:35
  It's hard to bust his balls when he makes such nice choices.
• 2:08:38
  I know, right?
• 2:08:39
  So Mark, you're on the other end of the, you're the yin
• 2:08:41
  to his yang, so what you got?
• 2:08:42
  Yeah, sure.
• 2:08:43
  No, totally.
• 2:08:44
  So first time collector, I go back to the recommendation I just made
• 2:08:48
  previously in in nineties GTV.
• 2:08:51
  I think that's a super cool car.
• 2:08:53
  You're, especially in the US you know you're not gonna run into many of those
• 2:08:57
  in a cars and coffee type range and it still has, it had its values jacked up.
• 2:09:02
  If I could pick something and I would go so far as to say, dare I say something
• 2:09:07
  that isn't totally ridiculous, I would buy an F four 30 scud and do a manual swap.
• 2:09:13
  That's a solid choice.
• 2:09:15
  I buy the scud, it's a hundred fifty, a hundred seventy five K. I'd spend the
• 2:09:18
  25 grand on the manual spot and you'd have one nasty ass, 500 horsepower mid
• 2:09:23
  engine V eight, naturally aspirated.
• 2:09:25
  Just angry, angry car.
• 2:09:27
  That would be fun as hell to drive.
• 2:09:29
  Sweet.
• 2:09:30
  Alright, Mr. Weiberg, what is in your Mani Morelli three car garage.
• 2:09:35
  And what's your Alpha Romeo recommendation?
• 2:09:37
  That sounds a little bit weird.
• 2:09:39
  You know, this is the car that I ran into when we were photographing garages.
• 2:09:42
  It's a little weird to work with me here.
• 2:09:44
  The Alpha Romeo is Julia.
• 2:09:46
  GTC, it's essentially the coop.
• 2:09:48
  They cut off the roof and now you've got this little fore place.
• 2:09:52
  Oh, Chris, you know, go get something to drink.
• 2:09:54
  Okay?
• 2:09:55
  Yeah, go find your pipe.
• 2:09:57
  Chris, where's your pipe?
• 2:09:58
  I'm in, I'm in the sunlight out here on the West coast.
• 2:10:01
  I haven't even eaten my dinner yet.
• 2:10:02
  Chris, I'm gonna send my elante for you.
• 2:10:05
  I'm gonna take you for a steak dinner.
• 2:10:06
  We're gonna take you to a nice dinner.
• 2:10:07
  It's gonna be great.
• 2:10:08
  But the only problem is that Don ante is Mary Kay Pink.
• 2:10:11
  So I just, aren't they all?
• 2:10:15
  I thought that was just like, and they were all pink.
• 2:10:17
  They made another color.
• 2:10:18
  It's Mary Kay Pink.
• 2:10:18
  It's pearl petal Rose.
• 2:10:21
  Oh geez.
• 2:10:22
  Champagne, gold, metallic.
• 2:10:24
  Yeah.
• 2:10:24
  Whatever.
• 2:10:25
  So, anyway, that I, I think that's the alpha that I would recommend to somebody.
• 2:10:29
  And I, I think I would do that because it is limited.
• 2:10:32
  Uh, it has a very workable, uh, drive, train.
• 2:10:35
  Parts are available.
• 2:10:36
  It's going to have that driving experience.
• 2:10:38
  Again, you're not gonna see too many of them at cars and coffee, but it
• 2:10:41
  is gonna be a conversation starter as to, is that a factory thing?
• 2:10:44
  Is that, you know, how'd they get the top off?
• 2:10:46
  I think that's gonna be interesting.
• 2:10:47
  Yeah.
• 2:10:48
  There's so many pie in the skies Italians to go with.
• 2:10:51
  The one that's been recently catching my attention a lot is the Lamborghini Ventor.
• 2:10:56
  That is a solid choice.
• 2:10:57
  I like that.
• 2:10:58
  Great car.
• 2:10:58
  William, you're up.
• 2:11:00
  I'll have to piggyback on Chris.
• 2:11:01
  I agree with that on the alpha.
• 2:11:03
  I think that's perfect for, you know, someone's gonna jump in.
• 2:11:06
  I think it's perfect.
• 2:11:07
  Not only are we just with what the car is, the enjoyment you got of it, but the
• 2:11:10
  clubs, you know, and just to camaraderie you're gonna have with with have that car.
• 2:11:13
  I think that's perfect car to get.
• 2:11:15
  You know, you're gonna start out.
• 2:11:16
  If I'm gonna go my three car garage, it's gonna be the F 42 88 and the 2 75 4 cam.
• 2:11:22
  Oh man, I hope you got good insurance system.
• 2:11:25
  Did you win the Mega Millions?
• 2:11:28
  You better win the Mega millions.
• 2:11:31
  I might actually buy that scud one day.
• 2:11:35
  No, what your choice in that scud?
• 2:11:36
  That, I mean, that's, that's, but now, you know, and 10 years ago
• 2:11:39
  people would frown on that immensely.
• 2:11:40
  But now it's so getting so common.
• 2:11:42
  No one cares.
• 2:11:43
  Everyone's going for it.
• 2:11:44
  That's a fantastic thing to do.
• 2:11:45
  I mean, those, those scuds are just fabulous cars.
• 2:11:48
  It'd been nice.
• 2:11:48
  They would've made 'em six beats from the factory.
• 2:11:50
  But you know, those are, I think you're gonna see a lot more of those.
• 2:11:53
  A lot of that happening.
• 2:11:54
  A lot more.
• 2:11:54
  Brad, you've been quiet tonight buddy.
• 2:11:56
  You doing okay?
• 2:11:57
  Because I, I don't know much about Italian cars, you know, except for,
• 2:12:02
  you know, what I've seen from the nineties and on, I've actually been
• 2:12:05
  shopping while you all have been talking for a newer 2018 Julia Quadra Folio.
• 2:12:11
  So that's where I'm going with the alpha, because like you all
• 2:12:14
  were saying, it's in the 50 range.
• 2:12:16
  It's not terrible.
• 2:12:17
  And it's a future classic pie in the sky.
• 2:12:19
  I'm doing a 5 75 m. I'm doing an F 50.
• 2:12:24
  I don't know.
• 2:12:24
  I'm gonna do a Diablo vt. Oh,
• 2:12:29
  all right.
• 2:12:29
  So I'm gonna give you Jerry's final thought here.
• 2:12:32
  You know, mine are always uber complicated and involved for Alpha Romeos.
• 2:12:36
  To Don's point, I'm always on the sporty side.
• 2:12:39
  I want a car I can jump in and kind of thrash and ho around
• 2:12:42
  in and things like that.
• 2:12:43
  I fell in love with the GTV six a long time ago, but I
• 2:12:47
  wouldn't recommend that, right?
• 2:12:48
  It's a problem child.
• 2:12:49
  It has its issues.
• 2:12:50
  I can get better performance out of an E 30 BMW if I'm gonna, if I'm
• 2:12:53
  gonna go down that route, right?
• 2:12:54
  So I'm gonna park that one.
• 2:12:56
  I fell in love with the Alpha Romeo sz.
• 2:12:58
  That's the car for me.
• 2:12:59
  That's Alpha Romeo's Carrado.
• 2:13:01
  But.
• 2:13:02
  It's also in that category of, okay, even though I got it
• 2:13:05
  here, now what do I do with it?
• 2:13:07
  If I'm going to import an alpha from overseas, I said it
• 2:13:11
  earlier, the RA is the way to go.
• 2:13:13
  It's the modern version of both of those cars.
• 2:13:17
  It's got everything you want.
• 2:13:18
  Modern electronics, all the suspension dialed in, that kind of thing.
• 2:13:22
  A close cousin to that would be the 1 47 GTA hatchback.
• 2:13:25
  So they're very kind of similar in that respect.
• 2:13:28
  Both those kinda shooting brake designs.
• 2:13:29
  I like that style of cars.
• 2:13:31
  So that would be my choice.
• 2:13:32
  If you're into hot hatches, you know, the Rera or the 1 47 is really gonna
• 2:13:37
  be up your alley if you're tired of the same old, you know, Subaru
• 2:13:40
  Impreza and and golf GTI and that kind of stuff in my three car garage.
• 2:13:44
  It's really.
• 2:13:46
  An interesting bunch of cars in there.
• 2:13:48
  I mean, obviously the F 40 is always gonna be at the top of my list.
• 2:13:52
  I don't know that I would buy one because if I'm spending ungodly amounts of
• 2:13:56
  money, I want a 1 55 B six ti, you know, 12,000 RPM touring car from the DTM era.
• 2:14:04
  I would love to have a Ferrari 4, 5, 8 GT three, just like our
• 2:14:08
  friend Andy Pilgrim runs in SRO.
• 2:14:10
  You know, cars like that really excite me.
• 2:14:11
  I think they're great at the end of it.
• 2:14:13
  There's just something that we forgot on this list and there's a lot of cars.
• 2:14:18
  We mentioned many of them were actually penned by Giro and I, you know, you
• 2:14:21
  guys know I'm a big fan of his, from the Bora to the Morro, to the Dino coop
• 2:14:27
  to, you know, the Panda and, and a bunch of other vehicles that we talked about.
• 2:14:31
  Were all penned by the same guy and he often gets again forgotten.
• 2:14:34
  It's kind of lost in the weeds.
• 2:14:36
  There's another car that he penned and Donald appreciate this 'cause it has
• 2:14:39
  some funky doors and it's not a DeLorean.
• 2:14:43
  The ante.
• 2:14:43
  Yeah, the ante.
• 2:14:45
  It is the Deto, Mazo Mangusta.
• 2:14:49
  Ah, good car.
• 2:14:50
  Yeah.
• 2:14:50
  I absolutely adore those cars.
• 2:14:52
  I saw one again in person at the Peterson.
• 2:14:55
  It's just so funky.
• 2:14:57
  So cool.
• 2:14:58
  You could take that to any car show from cars and coffee to Amelia,
• 2:15:02
  to Pebble and back and everybody's gonna go, wow, what the heck is that?
• 2:15:06
  Because it's just so unique and it's just got the juro flare all over it.
• 2:15:11
  So that would be my like top of the list.
• 2:15:14
  Just funky.
• 2:15:15
  Just gotta have it sort of car.
• 2:15:17
  So we'll leave on a high note.
• 2:15:19
  I'm glad for once we came to a consensus on a, what should I buy
• 2:15:22
  episode and only here is the mangusta.
• 2:15:29
  We're talking Italian cards.
• 2:15:30
  All right?
• 2:15:31
  Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 2:15:31
  No, but I, I'm really happy that for once we've come to a consensus, we
• 2:15:35
  come to an agreement on something and Alfa Romeo seems to be the way to go.
• 2:15:38
  So listeners, if you're thinking about an Italian, you're thinking
• 2:15:41
  about getting into this world.
• 2:15:43
  Alfa Romeo is the place you gotta go.
• 2:15:45
  So if you started off this episode.
• 2:15:48
  Always dreaming about buying an Italian car.
• 2:15:51
  You've been too afraid to cross that line.
• 2:15:53
  Maybe because of bad word of mouth horror stories, misconceptions
• 2:15:56
  or parts availability.
• 2:15:57
  We hope that the advice that you were given tonight proved that wrong, muted
• 2:16:02
  some of those fears, and you begin to turn your attention and investment dollars
• 2:16:06
  towards an Italian collective card.
• 2:16:08
  We want to thank William Ross from the Ferrari and Porsche Marketplace.
• 2:16:11
  Also sales director for ACH Porsche.
• 2:16:15
  You can reach out to him directly atWilliam@ferrarimarketplace.com.
• 2:16:19
  Also, we'd like to thank Chris Bright for coming on the show
• 2:16:22
  from Collector Part Exchange.
• 2:16:23
  You can find all the really cool Italian goodies on
• 2:16:27
  www.collectorpartexchange.com, or at collector part exchange on social media.
• 2:16:33
  If you want to continue this conversation, be sure to jump over to Garage Riot,
• 2:16:37
  where Donovan Laura has created the social media platform for car enthusiasts.
• 2:16:42
  www.garageriot.com, also available as a mobile app for your iOS or Android device.
• 2:16:48
  That's right, and he owns one of those gallardos that uh, mark doesn't like,
• 2:16:53
  even though he wasn't able to join.
• 2:16:55
  We want to thank John Kasi from Project Motoring for sending in some
• 2:16:59
  recommendations that we mentioned tonight.
• 2:17:02
  You can check out P PMM x@projectmotoring.com, your source for
• 2:17:05
  custom and bespoke safety gear at Project Motoring on Social Don Weiberg from Garage
• 2:17:10
  Style Magazine and their new and improved website at www.garagestylemagazine.com.
• 2:17:16
  And Act Garage Style magazine on social.
• 2:17:18
  That's right.
• 2:17:19
  And finally, our petrolhead extraordinaire, mark Shank, who has been
• 2:17:22
  on several great break Fix episodes and more to come in the future for sure.
• 2:17:26
  So tune into the show to get caught up with Mark.
• 2:17:30
  So gentlemen, I cannot thank you all enough for coming on yet.
• 2:17:33
  Another abusive episode of What Should I Buy?
• 2:17:36
  No, I'm just kidding.
• 2:17:37
  Another episode of what Should I Buy Here on Break Fix.
• 2:17:41
  So it's always a pleasure to get together and who knows what we'll talk about next.
• 2:17:44
  Maybe French cars, race cars, who knows?
• 2:17:47
  Antes forever.
• 2:17:48
  Yeah, antes forever.
• 2:17:50
  We can do a whole episode on Antes.
• 2:17:52
  Can we just have it on a show on Absolutely.
• 2:17:55
  A whole episode.
• 2:17:56
  They have three different motors.
• 2:17:58
  Okay.
• 2:17:58
  Wait, wait, wait.
• 2:17:59
  I have an idea.
• 2:18:00
  Yeah, we do an episode on Ess and I will send you some edibles out from Oregon.
• 2:18:05
  We'll all take them at the same time.
• 2:18:07
  Or maybe that's better for French cars.
• 2:18:09
  I don't know.
• 2:18:09
  That could be nice.
• 2:18:11
  Under finder's Keepers rules.
• 2:18:13
  I own a crack pipe now.
• 2:18:15
  Anybody, any of you fools.
• 2:18:17
  Can, can, can do that.
• 2:18:19
  Huh?
• 2:18:20
  Only in an alpha.
• 2:18:22
  Catch you later.
• 2:18:23
  Thanks guys.
• 2:18:23
  Be in touch.
• 2:18:26
  Ciao.
• 2:18:26
  I meet.
• 2:18:34
  If you like what you've heard and want to learn more about gtm, be sure to
• 2:18:37
  check us out on www.gt motorsports.org.
• 2:18:41
  You can also find us on Instagram at Grand Tour Motorsports.
• 2:18:44
  Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call
• 2:18:49
  or text us at (202) 630-1770 or send us an email at Crew chief@gtmotorsports.org.
• 2:18:56
  We'd love to hear from you.
• 2:18:58
  Hey everybody, crew, chief Eric here.
• 2:19:01
  We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted
• 2:19:04
  to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization, and our goal
• 2:19:10
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• 2:19:14
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