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J.B. Hixson: The Great Last Days Apostasy · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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Hello friends, family and Christ welcome. Something has gone terribly wrong in the American Church, and
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Few people are talking about it.
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Worldly ideologies have obscured biblical truth,
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feel good messages, have replaced sound doctrine, and the faith of many is
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crumbling under deception. The Bible warns of a great apostasy as this present age draws to a close, and the closer we get to the
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Lord's return, the further the church is falling away from him.
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Will the remnant arise and be found without spot and blameless at the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ?
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Well, there's a brand new book out we're going to talk about today with Pastor JB Hickson. It's called The Great Last Days Apostasy. That's next.
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Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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defending biblical Christianity. No topic, off limits. And now here's your host David Firazzo.
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Welcome again friends. Let's bring in JB Hickson, the website notbyworks.org.
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He excited to talk about his brand new book. Brother, good to see you. Thanks for your time today. I know you're busy.
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Oh, no, never too busy for you, my friend. Thanks for having me.
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All right. You're most welcome. I see you traveling. I know you're preaching at Plum Creek Chapel, but you're going all over the place doing
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Conferences. What do you have coming up in the near future that our viewers or enlisters might be able to attend?
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Yes. So we'll be at the Mid-America Prophecy Conference in Tulsa. That's May 16th and 17th. All the details are at notbyworks.org.
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And then we have a couple of events in June, a couple of events in July, and it just doesn't slow down.
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You know, we're grateful. We're on the road about 200 days a year, give or take. Sometimes it means 250.
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Last year we were in 43 states. So it's what our calling is. You know, my wife and I are road warriors.
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When you and I love to just get out there and advance the grace message and really looking forward to.
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We're home now though, until May, middle of May for a little while. That's always nice as well.
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Yeah, my goodness. Just take a breather because I know you've been busy and I always when you have a new book come out,
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then you've also got to get out and do more interviews and things like that. So thank you.
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I wanted to mention the new book website is the great lastdaysapostasy.org, the great lastdaysapostasy.org.
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Of course, you can connect to that on JB's website as well. But JB, tell us a little bit about
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why this book at this time. Has it gotten so bad? Has the following away become so obvious in America
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with the church that you said you've got to write about it?
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Yeah, it has. Actually, and there are really two reasons that the Lord over the last year prompted me
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to focus on this. You know, as you well know, I finished my three volume series on
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the Spirit of the Antichrist in 22 and 23, and then I did not produce anything in 24, but I
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was researching and thinking and jotting down ideas as we travel. And the Lord just put on my heart
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that a lot of Bible prophecy teachers are focusing on all the outward signs and there's certainly no
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shortage of that, the signs of the times, the stage setting events that are preparing the way for
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the coming beast system. But one of the most overlooked signs, I think, is in the other direction,
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looking inside the church to see just how far the church has drifted away from the Lord. And
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the Bible says there's going to be a great apostasy. First Timothy 4.1 says, the Spirit expressly
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says that in the latter times, some will depart from the faith. That's apostasy. They will be giving
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heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. And so I got to thinking, you know, are we seeing
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an upsurge in apostasy in the church? And I zoomed in on the American church because that's
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kind of my world and that's where I spend my time. And boy, it was just jumping off the page when
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I really started taking a look at it. So that was one reason, but another reason, David, that I
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really decided to write this book was this year, 2025 marks my 40th year in ministry. I was licensed
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to the ministry in June of 1985 by Billy Drake-Rosby. He's who I dedicated the book to, my home
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church pastor. He's 92 years old still living. And I dedicated the book to him, sent him a copy
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with a nice note. And I just thought, as I got nostalgic and began thinking about my younger days
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and high school and college sitting in church. And then I compare that to what it's like today,
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it just, it really is emotional. It's really stunning to see what a different
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face the church has on it today. So I just thought it would give me the opportunity to put that
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in perspective and see how even though that's discouraging, like a lot of other Bible prophecy
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signs that we see are, nevertheless, it's part of God's plan and it's just a sign that we're
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getting close. My goodness, 40 years, I'm thinking, yeah, the church has changed in that time, but
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you don't look old enough to be a ministry that long, brother.
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Well, in all honesty, I was licensed at age 17 by brother Billy Drake-Rosby. So it took a
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couple of years after that before my first formal ministry position, but still, yeah, it's a long
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road. Amazing. So you start off the preface in your book by saying a lot has changed in the world
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since I first trusted Jesus Christ as my personal savior. And then you go into what's happened,
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and we obviously get into the church. But you have a scripture to kick things off. I want to ask
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you to maybe share your thoughts on why you put Matthew 16, 18, and on this rock, I will build my
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church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. Share a little bit more about that, JB.
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Yeah, of course, people know that's Christ in counter with the disciples and he asks them, who
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to men say that I am? And they gave different answers and so forth. But then it was Peter who
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said, thou art the Christ, the son of the living God. And Jesus, of course, then said, it is upon
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that rock, that fact, that principle that Peter just voiced, that I will build my church in the
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future. Of course, this is late in Christ's earthly ministry. The church didn't come about until
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10 days after his ascension in Acts chapter 2. So he's speaking of the church in the future tense,
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but the point is the church is founded upon the fact that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the
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living God. And that same Jesus that guys like you and I and many of your guests and many
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Christians, the remnant, that same Jesus that we're looking for to split the eastern sky to come
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back and meet him in the clouds is the foundation of the church. And we need never forget that.
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And I think examining the different manifestations of apostasy in the church, even for the remnant
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is a helpful reminder of the goal and the purpose and what the church should really look like.
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So I want to discuss, and again, this is from the preface of the book, one of the problems
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that we're seeing in America. But you do mention 1 Timothy 4 1, now the spirit warns in latter
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time, some will depart from the faith and giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.
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But there's a brief paragraph I want to share then have you just share whatever you'd like
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to elaborate. You say the church which is called to shine the lights amid a crooked and perverse
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world that's Philippians 2.15 has virtually become indistinguishable from the world.
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When Christians really go ahead. Yeah, no, I'm sorry. Yeah, we are, the church is absolutely
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become indistinguishable from the world in many ways. We're called to transform the world and
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instead we are conforming to the world. We're called to reform the world and instead we're
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reflecting the world. So in the book, just to give a quick outline, I start out by defining some
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terms. Chapters 1 and 2 define what is falling away, what is apostasy, and then what is the church.
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And only when you really understand those two terms through the lens of Scripture, can you then
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begin to hold that standard up against the reality of what we're seeing in the church today and see
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just how far we've fallen. And so then the next seven chapters get into seven manifestations
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of the apostasy and then I close it out with where do we go from here? What's the remedy as we
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await the Lord's return? So one point that I thought I'd like to get you to clarify is when someone
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falls away. To fall away, it was necessary for you to have faith in Jesus' relationship
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with him and then fall away. And you make the point to say the believer's eternal salvation
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is secure from the moment he places his faith in Jesus Christ alone for eternal life because
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Christians are sealed with the Holy Spirit. So when someone falls away, they don't lose their
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salvation. Is that correct? Yeah, when a believer falls away. So yeah, let's talk about apostasy
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for just a second because in the general culture, largely due to Roman Catholic dogma, most people
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think apostasy means go to hell. That if you are in apostate, it means you are hellbound. And
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that's certainly true for unbelievers. And by that, I mean, there are certainly people throughout
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church history who have associated with the church, but never been personally born again by
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faith alone and Christ alone. And they then depart from the church and they're not going to go to
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heaven, not because they departed from the church, but because they've never been saved. They've
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never placed their faith in Christ and him alone for salvation. But the Bible is very clear
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that there are believers who can turn away from the faith. In fact, Paul names some of them
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Hymanes, Alexander, Philetus. The book of Hebrews is written to a whole generation of Christians,
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Jewish Christians, Jewish men and women who had placed their faith in Christ alone for salvation
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and been born again, who because of Nero's persecution, we're contemplating,
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we're seeking the assembling of themselves together, disassociating with Christianity and trying
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to kind of go undercover. And that's shameful, honestly. And the writer of Hebrews tells them,
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again and again, don't cast away your faith. Don't do it. It's got great reward. God is faithful,
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even if you suffer the worst persecution martyrdom. God is faithful and so stick with it,
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stand firm. But many of them didn't. And they face the Lord's discipline for that. The end of
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Hebrews talks about him, the Lord loves he disciplines. So we need to remember the starting point.
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If you're a believer, you've been given eternal life. And if it's eternal, it can never be lost.
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So you don't have to worry about where you're spending eternity. That issue is settled.
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Jesus said, you passed from death to life and shall never come into judgment. But it is possible
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for believers, for any number of reasons, cultural pressures getting away from the Lord out of the
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Word of God, not fellowshiping with other believers to actually end up living a profligate lifestyle.
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So, but if you're not a believer and you're kind of hanging around the church, you know, thinking,
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oh, I'm like, I have a chapter in there on the church being a social club, falling away socially.
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And you think that somehow that's going to get you into heaven, you're sorely mistaken. So yeah,
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we have to make sure we understand the terms. And one other verse that I'll mention,
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in the Bible, explicitly directly addresses Christians who stop believing and fall away.
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And that second Timothy 212, and Paul makes it very clear, quote,
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even if we stop believing, God is faithful and cannot deny himself. So we don't have to worry.
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It's not how you finish, David, that determines whether you go to heaven. It's how you start.
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And if you've accepted the free gift of salvation by faith alone, you're born again.
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So that answers the question in chapter one. It's about falling away. And one of the questions
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does apostasy mean you are never saved? And so you just answered that question. And then in chapter
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two, what is the church? One of the things I wanted to ask you is what are a few of the biggest
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misconceptions about the church? Yeah, sometimes people think the church is a building.
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Some people think the church is a religion. Some people think the church is an institution
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like the Roman Catholic Church. In fact, I can't remember if I tell the story in the book or not,
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but I've mentioned it from the pulpit before that I had a friend in high school who was Roman
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Catholic. I believe he trusted Christ at some point. And I think he's a believer, but he's still
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a part of the Roman Catholic Church, unfortunately. But whenever I would talk about the church,
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hey, you want to come to our church this Sunday? You want to come to our church event or a church
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pizza party? At first, he was always confused because to him, the church meant the papacy and
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Roman Catholicism. So that's a misconception. Similarly, a lot of people think the church is a
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denomination, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterians, Lutherans, you name it. But the church is specifically
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defined as all people on earth who since the day of Pentecost have placed their faith in Jesus
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Christ, God's Son in our Savior, and him alone as the one who took our sin debt, paid it in full
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with his blood and rose again. And if you've done that, then you're part of the bride of Christ or
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the church. So I was going to ask another question from chapter three, but I think we'll take a
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brief pause here and come right back with JB Hicks and talking about his brand new book, The Great
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all courses at Freedom Project Academy. Back to JB Hicks and The Great Last Days Apostasy.
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Brother, chapter three, falling away biblically. We just had George Barnabakh on the podcast. We
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talk about his research at Arizona, Christian University and how they really talk a lot about the
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secularization of the Christian worldview as you do and in a way, falling away, Christians falling
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away the world influencing the church more than the church influencing the world. Well, you've got
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a little bit in that chapter as well about how the Christian worldview has become secularized. But
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you've also got something that says a straw in the wind. What's that about? Yeah. So in that first
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manifestation that we deal with, which is biblically and by the way, that's where it starts. I mean,
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to the extent that the church falls away from God's word as the only standard for our belief
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attitudes and practices, all of the other manifestations of falling away in apostasy that I deal with
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in the book flow from that. So we started with that one. But yeah, when you remove that standard,
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that true north, that rock on which we stand, then the church becomes like a straw in the wind.
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And it's going to cater to every new idea, every new fad and a trend. And it's not going to have
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any sort of compass to keep us focused on keeping the main thing, the main thing.
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So chapter four, I know we're jumping around here, but it's going by very, very fast JB.
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Talking a lot about prophecy and passages in the Bible that might be confusing. We know a lot
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of pastors don't even touch on Bible prophecy. They ignored or avoid it. But you've got one
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section in chapter four. Give me an example of misapplying prophetic passages.
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Yeah. So in the chapter on falling away eschatologically, I talk about how, again, it's all
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rather ironic because the closer we get to the Lord's return, the further the church is departing
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from him. Similarly, as I talk about in this chapter, the closer we get to the Lord's return,
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the further people misunderstand the return of the Lord. And you have all these
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aberrant and crazy views out there. And all of it stems from misapplying the scripture,
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newspaper exegesis, where date setters and sensationalists and people like that, who may mean well,
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but nevertheless, they're not correctly handling the word of God. So in that chapter, we talk about
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two kinds of apostasy. On the one hand, you've got the shisters, the ones that are clearly
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heretics. They're just in it for the money or the power or the fame. And church history is
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full of people like that. But it seems like the closer we get to the end of the age, the more of
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those we are seeing. And so that would be an example of unbelievers who are, quote,
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who are associated with the church, but they're really part of the apostate church. But then we
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also have well-meaning, well-intentioned Bible teachers, many of whom love Jesus. They love
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his word. We would consider them brothers and sisters in Christ. But they too are guilty of
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preaching false teaching when it comes to things like pre-Rath, post-trib, replacement theology,
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some of those issues. So there's just been an upsurge in that kind of teaching, which to me is
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just another sign of the times. Yes, thank you for mentioning replacement theology. So chapter 5
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falling away morally. In every one of my books, I read about the pro-life, the importance of
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Christian standing up for pre-born human life and mother's wombs. You've got that as one of the
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bullet points under falling away morally. JB, the sanctity of life explained to me, well, your
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thoughts on why is there any confusion in the church about the issue of abortion or
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life in the womb? Well, that's a controversial subject. And so when you start getting hate
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male, you can be reminded that you brought it up, not me, brother. But first of all, falling
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away morally, that chapter, that's the one most people think of when they think of apostasy. We
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think of just evil and sinfulness and so forth in the church like pornography and homosexuality
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and LGBTQ and stuff. But I think another example of how the church is drifted away from the
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standard of God's word is the degree to which many Christians today care more about a political
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party than they do the precious pre-born. And so we've allowed ourselves to get sort of co-opted
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by a movement and whether we realize or not, we have now accepted the fact that it's okay to kill
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innocent pre-born children in the womb for certain reasons. I get absolutely that the left
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is just absolutely off the charts evil when it comes to that stuff. But are we really
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proud of the fact that on the right we have convinced ourselves that there are certain times when
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you can kill an innocent baby? I think we need to take a hard look at that.
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No, I'm thankful you said that and never shy away from bringing up anything like that because
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this political ping pong in Washington and regardless of where you're standing. If you have any
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excuses like at a certain stage after a certain amount of weeks it's okay but not in the late
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term abortion. No, stand for the whole life of that child in the mother's womb. The life is
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sacred to God. But anyway, so yeah, I absolutely agree. I don't like to compromise. I don't like
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okay, we'll give him this. We'll just take it this far. Look where that's got us. Anyway,
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we've got a lot of work to do on that front. But let's move on, JB. Again, friends, the book,
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The Great Last Days Apostasy.org, or you can go to Not By Works. So social clubs in church clothing,
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that one really jumped out to me in your chapter six, falling away socially. I believe, I don't
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know why this connected for me. I thought about worship attainment and the entertaining
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worship from the front state. But social clubs in church clothing talk to me about that.
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Yeah, so there's some pretty humorous stories, by the way, in all of the chapters. Most chapters
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I begin with some type of anecdote, often humorous. But yeah, the fact of the matter is the church
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today is really just another social club. And I give some really stunning examples of churches
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that have literally decided to outsource biblical teaching. In other words, the lead pastor,
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the staff, everybody involved on the payroll of these mega churches. Nobody feels qualified to
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teach the word of God. So they're calling other people saying, hey, could you come in and teach
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some Bible classes on Tuesday nights? That kind of a thing, which is just stunning. Talk about
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missing the point. We've completely missed the point of why the church is here to equip the
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levers. But I get into in that chapter as well, David, the secularization of worship music. I talk
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about pop psychology. And even the seeker movement, I have a section in there called, do you seek
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here often? Oh, yeah, I see that right and that right after that, right after the social clubs,
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do you seek here often? Man, and that's one thing in the 40 years of your ministry. I'm sure you've
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noticed when you travel at different churches, how more and more, and they become like the world,
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when you're seeker sensitive, you want to draw in or try to attract the world. But then you can't
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give them hard biblical truth or Bible prophecy or the whole council of God. You've got to give them
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a little what you drew them in with. And oftentimes, unfortunately, it's entertainment. JB, we've got
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to jump around here too. Let's go to chapter seven. Different kinds of gospels, the purpose gospel,
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prosperity gospel, pluralistic gospel. What is the pretend gospel? Yeah, the pretend gospel is what
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I talked about in my previous book, Spirit of the False Prophet, and also in my third revised
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version of getting the gospel wrong that came out in 24. It's using AI and chat GPT and some of
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those things to come up with a fake Jesus, a fake gospel, a fake heaven. It's this whole virtual
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reality world that many particularly young people are falling into the trap of. So yeah, as you know,
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David, my heartbeat here at NBW Ministries is the clarity accuracy and urgency of the gospel.
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That's what we're all about. Our whole team here, my wife Wendy and Morgan and Abby and
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Brooke and Lacey and the whole team that's associated with our ministry. We care about advancing the
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clear act at an urgent gospel. So that chapter was a pretty easy one for me to write because it's
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kind of a running theme throughout all of my teachings. But clearly, an example of apostasy in
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these last days is the fact that so many false gospels have become normative. So we're I'm looking
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at the time here, chapter eight, falling way academically, chapter nine, falling way politically,
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chapter 10, where does the church go from here? I want to jump all the way because we're so
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short on time, JB Hickson, the appendix C. I think a lot of people would benefit from hearing your
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take on this non-negotiables when choosing a local church. You get emails, I get emails, maybe
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phone calls, messages. What do I need to look for? Where can I find a good Bible-believing church?
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Share a little bit about why you decide to put that in. Of course, I know why you decided to because
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it's so important. Go ahead. It is. Yeah, I think that appendix alone is worth the price of the book
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honestly. So we have three appendices, but the third one is non-negotiables. Seven non-negotiables
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when choosing a local church. So here's why we decided to do that. First of all, you're right. We
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all get questions all the time. Someone will say, hey, I moved to such an area. Do you know a good
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church there? And I know other ministries have created a massive list of churches that they
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deemed to be acceptable. And I'm fine with that, but my problem is or my fear is, even if we did
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that, then it becomes an obligation to keep up with those churches and make sure they haven't changed
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pastors or changed doctrines. And there's no guarantee. I've seen enough churches kind of
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ebb and flow in their biblical stance. So rather than give a shortcut to, hey, here's a list of
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approved churches. What we decided to do is say, here's seven biblical principles that we think
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are non-negotiable. And if your church doesn't check all these boxes, you need to run not walk
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away from that church. And so when people call and say, I'm looking for a church, we point them to
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that. And we say, check out the church's doctrinal statement. Check out their website. Have lunch with
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the pastor. Ask him some of these questions. And this is just my list. Other people may have some
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other important non-negotiables that are important to them. But I think these are the fundamentals.
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And so yeah, it's called seven non-negotiables when choosing a local church.
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Excellent. So if it's a mega church, there's so much we can talk about there. But do you meet with
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a deacon and elder to talk to someone at the church? Yeah, I mean, whoever you can meet with.
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And then hold them accountable. Because frankly, if you sit down and start talking with them
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about these things and they go, what's that? I've never heard of that. Well, that ought to be a red
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flag right now. And a lot of times people will say, yeah, we will leave in that. And then you hear
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something completely different from the pulpit. Well, as you know, it's not just when you move
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to a new area. Because of the declining biblical worldview, even among pastors, we hear from
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people in their own town. They don't plan on moving. They just want it. They need to find a church
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and they can't in their own area where they're at. The teachers, the whole council of God,
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they're not afraid to tackle Bible prophecy. Look at culture and expose the deeds of darkness
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and just continue to equip the saints. It's so sad where we've come. But that's why your book is
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necessary. The great last days apostasy friends. Again, that's the website. The great last days
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apostasy.org. You got a minute for any closing thoughts or encouragement, brother.
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Yeah. So we've talked about the gospel a couple of times already. But I just encourage folks to
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deal with the number one priority. And that is, do you know Jesus? You know, we just celebrated
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Easter here recently, the resurrection of our Lord. And you know, the Paul says, if crisis not
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risen, our faith is futile. Well, where is your faith? Have you placed your faith in the risen
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Savior, the one who paid your debt on the cross and rose again? He's the only hope. And it's a
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simple matter of personal faith. You can't earn it. You can't work for it. You can't be good enough.
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So I just encourage folks to, regardless of whether you buy the book or, you know, follow our
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ministry, whatever else you do, stop today and make sure there's been a time in your life when
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you've placed your faith in Christ. Excellent way to end. Very important. And yeah, the tomb is still
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empty. The resurrection is true history, true biblical history. And thanks for your
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perspective. And another great book, JB, we'll do this again soon. God willing. Amen. Thank you,
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David. All right. Appreciate your time. So again, friends, not by works.org and get more, so much more
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there. Sign up for JB's newsletter. There are a lot of resources on his website and more. So God
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bless you. And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.