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S2E25 - Too Late to Start? Implementing Play Therapy Techniques with Older Kids · Play Therapy Parenting: Real Parenting Questions Answered by a Child Therapist

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  You're listening to the
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  Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
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  Hi, I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks, The Kid Counselor.
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  This is the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast where I give
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  you insight awareness and enlightenment about your parenting
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  and your relationship with your kids.
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  In today's episode, I am answering a question from Amy in Florida.
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  Shout out to my fellow Floridian.
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  She did
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  let me know that she's not a native, but we, we love you anyway.
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  It's so hard to find native Floridians, y'all.
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  You don't, you don't understand my pain.
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  But I happen to be one of the few that was born here and
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  we have generations in my family that are Floridians. So that's special.
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  Ok.
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  So Amy's question is about just learning the child-centered play therapy approach
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  and her children are 12 and 9.
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  So she's saying that she feels a little
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  bit late getting started using the techniques,
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  but she has seen some improvements. So that's encouraging Amy.
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  I'm happy to hear that.
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  And she says,
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  are there any adaptations that I need to make to
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  follow these principles with my kids knowing that they're older?
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  So we'll talk through that a little bit.
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  And then one of the issues that she's struggling with,
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  I'll actually read a part of her email for you so you can hear exactly what she said.
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  We struggle with mean words, back talk, yelling and talking over others.
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  A lot of times these behaviors take place at the
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  same time within a matter of minutes or seconds.
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  So it's hard to reflect feelings when I can't get a word
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  in because they're either yelling at each other or yelling at me.
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  Should I call a time out to ask them to calm down first?
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  What do we do when the heat turns up? I imagine these practices will help eventually.
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  But do you have any advice in the meantime, when things get really heated?
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  Ok. So that was the second question.
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  And then the third question,
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  I also need help with setting a neutral limit around this behavior.
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  Is it sisters are not for yelling at or moms are
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  not for yelling at or words are for building up,
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  not for tearing down.
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  I've tried a couple of these, but nothing seems to land right.
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  In some cases, they turn and yell at me for saying it.
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  Yes.
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  That is one of the common frustrations because sometimes kids
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  don't know how to handle when we change things.
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  And so their response is just angry and aggressive. So that's actually very normal
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  final
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  thought. She says, am I too late to try these things? So that's a simple answer.
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  No, no, no, it's never too late.
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  So I've actually had
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  there's an early episode of the podcast. So this is season two.
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  If you would like to go back and listen to season one,
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  I think the title is called Reflecting Feelings Works even with adults.
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  So please go back and check out that episode and I bring that up because that is a story
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  that I share of parents with whom I was working
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  and they used reflecting feelings on the adult sister.
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  So the mom,
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  mom and dad were active clients of mine
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  and I was teaching them to use the skills with their son.
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  And she came in and told me that she used it with her sister who was an adult
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  and she was blown away at how it worked.
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  And so yes, you can use this literally at, at any time with any age with anyone.
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  It's not even reserved just for children.
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  So no, it is never too late. Amy. That's the short answer.
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  But let's dive through these other three questions as well.
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  The path to calm, confident and in control parenting starts now.
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  Ok.
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  So your first question,
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  are there any adaptations that I need to
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  make to follow these principles with my daughters?
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  Given that they are older,
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  there are no modifications or adaptations of the skills.
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  If you were to want to try to do some individual time with each of your girls,
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  you would not want it to be as play based, as activity based.
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  But that is kind of for a separate discussion.
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  So as far as the use of the skills, so when you're giving choices,
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  when you're setting limits, when you're reflecting feelings,
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  when you are encouraging,
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  the skills do not change.
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  For a 12 and a nine year old, we use these exact same skills in the playroom
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  with children up to 18.
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  They're not always in the playroom, but we, when we work with even teens,
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  we're using these skills.
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  So there are no adaptations. You're going to use the words verbatim.
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  However, here's a thought that I have in relation to that
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  sometimes if you start later because kids are older,
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  it's a shock to their system more than when they're young.
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  So you might get more push back from older kids.
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  Not because the skills aren't effective, not because you need to modify them
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  just because they're old enough to go. What the heck is mom doing?
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  Why is she talking differently?
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  What are these weird phrases that she's saying to us all of a sudden?
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  Why is she telling me how I feel? Why is she saying this is not for this?
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  Stop giving me choices.
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  Trust me. We've all heard it.
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  Every parent with whom I've worked,
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  they've processed this with me and then even kids in the playroom
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  as the clinical side of things do the same thing sometimes.
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  So there are no adaptations or modifications that need to be made.
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  You will use the skills exactly as you hear them in the podcast?
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  Ok. Second question.
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  As far as the mean words, back, talk, yelling and talking over.
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  That sounds familiar. Right. That's
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  sibling arguments at its best. That's almost consistent across every parent
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  and one of the struggles that they face. So
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  a lot of these behaviors take place at the
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  same time within a matter of minutes or seconds.
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  So it's hard to reflect when I can't get a word
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  in because they're yelling at each other or yelling at me.
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  Ok. So should I call a time out to ask them to calm down first?
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  That is a very rational cognitive intellectual approach.
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  So I'm actually going to give you an alternative.
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  We have to go back to the idea that kids do not use their brains,
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  they use their feelings.
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  So when their feelings are really big,
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  saying we need to calm down, hold on, we're getting too high here. We need to,
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  that is going to land on deaf ears
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  because their emotions always override their brain.
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  They don't develop abstract reasoning until 12 or 13.
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  So your oldest might be on the cusp of that,
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  but your youngest is certainly not even close.
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  So the idea of saying, hold on, let's think about this. Let's calm down.
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  Let's take a couple of breaths.
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  That's all cognitive and that's not where children are.
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  So there are a couple of rules of thumb that will be very helpful
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  here and the rules of thumb are
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  actually taken from child parent relationship training,
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  which is a 10 week parenting curriculum that I teach. So these are taken from that.
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  These are not mine.
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  I'm trying to give credit where credit is due.
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  So the first rule of thumb is when a child is drowning,
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  it's not the time to teach them to swim.
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  What that means is
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  if they're that heated, that escalated and everything is that big,
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  they're not going to be able to receive anything.
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  So we have to be careful to set a limit if necessary.
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  But we can't try to impart a lesson or teach a rule
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  or explain something to them when their emotions are really high.
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  So when a child is drowning, it's not the time to teach them to swim.
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  We
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  reflect a feeling even if they don't hear us,
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  it's ok for us to say it and then not hear it.
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  But our tone of voice and our facial expression and
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  our nonverbal body language has to be very clear.
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  We are calm,
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  we are in control,
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  we are modeling for them what that looks like.
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  In other words,
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  I am completely
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  at a neutral, calm place
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  and I know that you can get yourself back there as well.
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  So we're going to reflect the feeling very gently,
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  you're frustrated. Now,
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  if that warrants a limit because you say, you know what,
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  what they're saying to each other is not kind and it's not appropriate.
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  And it doesn't
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  do anything for their relationship,
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  et cetera, et cetera, then you would absolutely set a limit.
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  So,
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  as they are saying, mean things or yelling at each other or talking over each other,
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  it would be helpful to say
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  your sister's talking.
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  You can choose to talk as soon as she's done.
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  That's not even a full limit, but that setting of an expectation,
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  right? You might also say
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  you're both trying to talk at the same time and I can't understand either one of you
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  again, setting an expectation.
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  So those neutral, clear concise pseudo limits as they're called,
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  those are really helpful because you don't
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  go through the whole limit setting process
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  in those moments because when a child is drowning,
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  it's not the time to teach them to swim.
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  Ok. Another helpful rule of thumb is be a thermostat, not a thermometer.
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  You have to be the one that adjusts when they ramp up, when their emotions elevate.
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  When they get really heated, you have to dial it down like a thermostat does.
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  If you're a thermometer, you're going to read exactly what they are and match them.
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  We don't want to do that.
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  We want to model and demonstrate what regulation and control looks like.
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  So
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  you're going to regulate a just come down,
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  you're going to be
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  more calm than you think it's possible to be Amy
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  because the goal is
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  that they see that you don't get escalated,
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  you don't get upheaved your emotions don't control your behavior and your words.
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  So you calmly neutrally factually respond to them.
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  Your tone of voice and facial expression and body language have to be congruent.
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  Because if you're saying the words appropriately
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  with
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  an incorrect tone,
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  it's going to seem phony to them and it will not work. So what that looks like is
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  I know that you really want,
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  ok, you're saying the right things
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  I know you really want to tell me what's going on. But
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  but with that tone of voice,
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  there's nothing congruent about that.
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  So the goal of this
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  is always calm neutrality
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  and that happens with practice
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  because I know a lot of you are like, oh my gosh, that's impossible.
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  Easier said than done. It
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  is really hard,
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  but it is possible with practice.
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  So just as we are changing and learning new things, our children are too.
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  So it's a learning, growing, changing process for everyone involved,
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  which is why there are bumps and that's why there are hiccups
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  because when one person changes,
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  it forces everyone else to change and that's tricky.
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  So
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  Amy as you're implementing these new skills,
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  it's forcing your daughters to change and they don't know how to handle that
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  because the dynamic has now shifted.
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  Mom used to say and do this. Now she's saying and doing this.
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  I don't know what's happening. I don't know what I'm supposed to do anymore.
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  So just know that these are the
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  normal growing pains of implementing new strategies.
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  All right.
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  So what do we do when the heat turns up?
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  Well, as I mentioned, you stay completely neutral and calm
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  and you set an expectation not in the moment.
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  So this ties back to the, when a child is drowning,
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  it's not the time to teach them to swim.
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  You're going to actually set a an expectation
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  at a neutral time.
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  So let's say that this
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  escalation happens in the morning before school
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  because mornings before school are usually rough.
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  So
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  this happens before school.
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  You don't necessarily address it before school.
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  You wait until after dinner
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  or you wait until before bed or you wait
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  until the weekend when everyone is fed and happy and
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  well rested and things are going really well.
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  And then you use a phrase to get your daughter's attention.
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  Another thing that comes out of the CPRT coaching program
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  is
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  we're about to institute a new and significant
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  policy within the confines of this household.
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  You don't have to say that
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  but you wanna say something that makes them go. Oh, I better pay attention.
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  So you might just say girls new rule,
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  right? Or really important what I'm about to say or something, right?
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  Because you want there to be a preface that says this is going to change my life.
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  I need to listen.
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  That's when you set the expectations.
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  So I know a couple mornings ago,
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  things got a little bit heated and you all were yelling and you were bad and
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  you were saying unkind things to each other
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  moving forward
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  and then you set the expectation.
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  So whether that's
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  the mornings are not going to be a time when we're angry with each other,
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  or
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  you are expected to say kind things to each other, not unkind things to each other,
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  whatever, you're going to set expectations,
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  but it has to be at a calm neutral point, not in the moment.
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  Then if something like that happens again,
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  you fall back on when you set the expectation neutrally
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  and they're, they were able to receive and digest it at that point,
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  they will not receive and digest it in the middle of all of that upheaval.
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  So make sure that you're setting expectations with your children
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  at calm, neutral times.
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  All right. And then your final question, Amy,
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  I need help with setting a neutral limit around the behavior.
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  So this would be when you would set the neutral limit at that calm,
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  neutral time when you're discussing this.
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  So
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  we are not for yelling at, in
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  this family.
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  No one is for yelling at in this family.
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  So that is the A is not for B if you want to do the positive, which would be X is for Y.
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  You would say
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  all of us are for speaking too gently.
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  All of us are for speaking too kindly. All of us are for speaking too softly.
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  So you can either say not for yelling or speaking to gently, softly,
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  whatever the alternative.
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  So that's how you would do it when you're in that
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  happy conversation.
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  I actually would stay away from words or for building up, not for tearing down
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  because that is, first of all, it's a little bit cliche,
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  but also
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  that's a little bit tricky to navigate because that's too vague of a concept.
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  So you need really specific concrete limits when you set them.
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  So
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  as a member of this family, no one is for yelling at
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  or
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  all of us in this family are for speaking too kindly.
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  That is very clear what the expectation is.
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  And if they turn and yell at you for saying it,
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  you reflect that
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  you're angry that I'm setting expectations.
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  But this is how we function as a family when
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  we know how we're supposed to treat each other.
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  If you give the why, even if they don't like what you're doing,
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  the why matters.
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  So if you explain why you're doing something,
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  kids are more likely to understand and accept it,
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  even if they don't particularly like it.
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  So
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  you wish that I wouldn't say these things. You don't like that.
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  I'm setting expectations. You don't like that.
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  I'm wording things differently now,
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  whatever it is that they're lamenting, acknowledge it out loud, reflect it to them.
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  They need to feel heard and understood,
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  but then provide them with the why.
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  But I'm setting expectations so that our family functions the way that it should
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  or
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  we need to know how to treat each other so
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  that our family works the way that it's supposed to.
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  You give the why behind what you're saying and doing
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  and then it's easier for them to accept it.
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  So, Amy, thank you so much for the question. I really appreciate you emailing in and
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  not sure what area of Florida you're in, but we're in the Tampa Bay area.
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  So hello from the west central coast of Florida.
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  If you all would like me to answer a question, I would love to hear from you.
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  Thank you to those of you who have been emailing me
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  brenna@thekidcounselor.com
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  or you can call and leave a message at 813-812-5525. If you're in the States
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  and you can leave a message and then I can answer the question that way. So
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  super grateful for each and every one of you. Keep it up with your kids.
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  Know that every time that you learn something new
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  and you work to implement it and you work to build new skills.
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  It is forever serving your children
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  and they will forever have the benefit of the work and
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  the time and the energy that you're putting in sometimes it seems
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  like it's just a never ending grind. But know that every time you choose
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  to parent in an appropriate way,
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  every time you choose to build your parenting
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  skills every time you choose to learn something new
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  that is positively impacting your children for the rest of their lives. So
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  keep your head up,
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  know that I care about you and I hope that you
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  feel encouraged and supported as a part of this journey.
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  We'll talk again soon. Have a great week. Bye.
• 16:52
  Thank you for listening
• 16:53
  to the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks
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  for more episodes and just subscribe to our newsletter.
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  Please go to www.playtherapyparenting.com.