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Which St. Louis Cardinals Are Under THE MOST Pressure Next Season? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hello, everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Jim Hayes alongside Lance Lynn Kyle Gibson had chores. Let's
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: call them chores to do. Before we start, Lance. It's true.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Before we start, we don't beg, but we sell, right?
• 0:25
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• 0:48
  Speaker 1: got on looks pretty good. So get yourself some merch. Congratulations.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Go out to the Milwaukee Brewers. They won their first
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: World Series championship ever. They were the best team during
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the regular season. They were dominant during the postseason, right?
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: So tip of the cap to the Brewers. They had
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: an unbelievable season. Remarkable run, don't you think, Lance? It
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: was great. You know, it's just hard to believe a
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: team in the.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Bottom half of payroll to win a World Series. It's
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: just an amazing feat. It's almost like climbing Mount Everest
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: in some people's minds. So, you know, for a team
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: to be able to do that without, you know, spending
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: the money, you know, it's an awesome, awesome work for them.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: And they didn't have to have every guy hitting homers. Boy,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: they strung hits together, they hit with runners in scoring position,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: and they had solid, solid pitching. Best bullpen in baseball
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: by far. Yeah, they played baseball as a team. It's
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: amazing when you do that. Now, the Cardinals want to
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: get there, so they're in a rebuild. Rebuild, rebuild, rebuild.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: And we've talked a lot about how they can get better.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: We talked about free agents. We talked about some guys
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: that might not be back next year. Let's talk about
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: the guys this year who are going to be under pressure.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: The assignment we got from the bosses was come up
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: with a position player and a pitcher that's going to
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: be feeling a lot of pressure. They got to produce
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: this year. And when I say the bosses, of course,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is Lance giving us the assignment. So
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: we came up with two that might be in the crosshairs,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: might be feeling the pressure because it's on them to produce. Lance,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: let's start with position player. Who you got?
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Well, who Kyle sent in first? We'll talk about Kyle's
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: real quick. He went, what was it? What did he
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: say again?
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: I don't even know what he said. Kyle, he went
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Fitz and....
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Who's the other starter that got hurt at the end
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: of the year. But he went Fitz as one of
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: them next year because I think for his mind, it's
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: when you trade comes over and then you have some
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: injuries and this and that, pressure mounts that next year,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: which he already had it on him. So coming back
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: from injury and coming back from being traded to a
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: new organization, he's going to make that smart next year.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: So I think that was one of them. I can't
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: remember who the position player was. Well, give me your picture,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: and maybe George can text me. So mine are, if
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: we're looking at pressure, right, when you make an all-star
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: team and you're, let's say, young or early on and
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: don't have guaranteed money, the pressure builds for you to
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: do that over and over again. So we've got my
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: pitcher is Riley O'Brien, and my position player is Jordan Walker.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do them one
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: at a time. Give me your reasoning for Walker. Give
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: me your reasoning for Walker. Well, so, Walker, it's age
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: and what he accomplished this year, right? So, age-wise, he's
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: going into what we would call, like, hey, this is
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: when they expect you to be the guy, right?
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: This year, we were hoping he became something, right? Now,
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: he was an all-star, did everything he did. Now, they
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: expect more. So, that puts different pressure on you, and
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: he's still only going to be 25 years old.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: So....
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: I think that comes with a lot of pressure when
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: you're looked to be the pillar of a lineup as
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: a 25-year-old, be 30 home runs, 100 RBIs. So they're
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: looking for him to take another step, and that comes
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: with pressure. It's easy to make one all-star team. It's
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: not easy to make multiple. So for his career path
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: and all that, there's pressure to make sure that it's
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: not just a fluke that this year happened either. So
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of different things that come with what
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: happened this year. And this year was a positive, right?
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Now it's, hey, what's the next step for him? And
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: that's the game, what it always entails is, what's the
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: next step for you? How are you going to keep
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: getting better? How are you going to become a perennial all-star?
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: How are you going to become the pillar of this
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: lineup for years to come as a 24-year-old slugger? So
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: that's why I think the pressure is on him next year.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: So let me give you my thoughts on Walker. He's
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: a guy that I think a lot of people wrote off, right?
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: They told him, you got to change your swing. You
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: got to get balls in the air. Well, eventually they
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: settled in on a more simplified approach that Walker could handle,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: which was basically what he had been doing, to be
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: honest with you. And he found out that if he
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: laid off the outside pitch, which is something he had
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: to work on, right? And even if he hit ground balls,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: he hits everything so hard they're going through. So those
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: are hits. And when he did get them in the air,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: sometimes he'd leave the park, sometimes he'd get a double.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: He did a much better job of utilizing his speed
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: on the base pass because that guy is an athlete.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: And then defensively, where some people weren't sure that he
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: could get a hold of being at least a capable outfielder,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I think he took it a tick beyond that. He
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: became a very solid outfielder. I think the question that
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: might linger is, There was a mental thing where he
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: couldn't latch on to the right way to do it,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: and then he did it, and he had a monster year.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: He was an all-star. Does that play with your mind
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: in the offseason, as you mentioned, the pressure to not
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: only do it again but maybe even be better?
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Well, you hope that he's found his way, right? And
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: that's the beauty of this game is that anyone can
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: do it any different way. So I'm hoping for his mental–
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: side of things is he sounded to do it his way.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: And then now with his way of doing things, how
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: can he stay who he is or what he's accomplished
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: this year? And that's kind of like, Hey, this is
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: who I am. And then figure out little, little areas
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: where you can get better with what you know, how
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: to do and how you do things, um, in a
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: positive way. So that's why it's kind of like, Hey,
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: what are you, how is this, is this your, who
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: you are, right? Is going to be the pressure thing.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: And hopefully it's, hey, this is who we can expect
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: him to be every year. And then you're going to have,
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: you know, if it goes down to 250 but you
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: hit 30, who cares, right?
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: But it could be 275, 280 with 35, you know.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: And then you're talking something totally different. So he's put
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: a nice year together, and we're hoping this is his baseline, right?
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: And then the pressure of next year is, is that
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: your baseline or is that your maps?
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Is that your ceilings? Those are the questions people will
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: be starting to ask is if he can duplicate it.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: And if he can, then, hey, that's his face on it.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: And if he can't, then that might be a ceiling.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: And those are those are questions that will come with
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: just seeing how it goes.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: We should point out that the Cardinals have moved on
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: from Brent Brown as their hitting coach. But Casey Chenoweth,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: the guy who was with Walker at double A, where
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Walker made those big steps forward, still with the ball club.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: So I think we all feel pretty good about where
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Jordan Walker's at. My guy, who I think is going
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: to start feeling some pressure, is a guy we just
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: had on the show a couple weeks ago. I know
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: you really like him. I really like him, and I
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: think he's still scratching the surface. But I'm going to
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: go with Yvonne Herrera. 26, last year, 19 homers, 241
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: batting average, 600-plus at-bats. Now, the year before, he had
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: 19 homers. Just 388 at-bats. He batted 288 the year
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: before last. And last year, his slugging was down. His
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: OPS was down. His batting average was down. He did
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: more with fewer at-bats in the previous year. And we
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: still don't know exactly what position best fits Iban Herrera.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: He told us, look, I'm a catcher. I can make
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: the fixes where I can start throwing runners out. That
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: would make him even more valuable if he gets very
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: comfortable and improves his defense back there. But I think
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: based on his offensive numbers, which were solid last year,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: and again, we think he's just scratching the surface, he
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: needs to be better. I think he would agree with that.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: So just what are your thoughts on my selection, Lance? No,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: I think it's a good one. I think it's a no-doubter.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: I think the main thing for him is push and throw, right?
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I think if he hits.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: 20 home runs as a guy that can catch and throw,
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: he's extremely valuable. Now the question is, if he becomes
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: a primary DH with no divisions, that's when things get
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: weird for him. So I think the pressure is on
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: in a way of, hey, you have to figure out
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: how to throw someone out. There's really no other way
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: to say it. Or you're going to become a liability
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: behind the plate where they can't put you back there,
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: especially with the catching depth that they have. um so
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: i think he's capable of it now finding that one
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: little thing that you can throw you know we're not
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: asking to sit here and throw 50 base runners out
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: we just need we just need them to not just
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: go at will when they get on so i think
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: it's a huge pressure year for him in that regard
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: And if his hitting stays status quo, you're fine, especially
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: if he can catch photos. Now, if he's not going
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: to be able to catch and move to DH full-time,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: hitting's got to have an uptick. So he's kind of
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: in a weird spot where if you're a full-time DH,
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: we're going to need some more homers from you and.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Stuff like that. If you're going to stay as a.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Catcher, then we're okay with the offense, but we're going
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: to need somebody with defense. So he's in a tough spot, really,
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: to be honest with you.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: So he had... elbow cleanup surgery in the offseason. The
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: year before, he said he could never get his arm
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: in the right position to have the proper pop position,
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: as they would say, and he got it cleaned up,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: and he still had trouble throwing guys out. There's no
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: sugarcoating that, and he said he can fix it. Now,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I know Yvonne. I've known him for a while. He's
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: a guy that in the minor leagues didn't hit a
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: lot and then totally revamped his swing, became an offensive threat,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: improved his defense a And again, he's 26. When he says,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: I can get this figured out, I tend to believe him.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: But that's going to put some pressure on him, as
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: we point out. So, Lance, who is your guy that
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: you feel might be in a bit of a pressure
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: cooker that is a pitcher? I mean, that's Riley O'Brien.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're looking at what he did this year,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: kind of how it ended, right? Where everyone talks about, hey,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: you know, is he going to be the closer or
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: can he be the closer to the future? I think
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: you're looking at a guy who made the All-Star team,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: had 30-plus saves.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: It's can you do it again, right? That's where everyone's at.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: He's 31 years old, so he's kind of a late
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: arrival to being a dominant back-end guy. So I think
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: he has the stuff to do it. I think he's
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: had a year where Kyle was mentioned before. He had
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: like one or two outings that skewed his year already.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Crazy amount. which will happen to a reliever. But when
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: you look at maybe the all-star team had the saves,
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: had the strikeouts, did all that stuff. What's the next
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: step for him? Is he a legit closer or is
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: he just someone that fits in in the seventh, eighth,
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: ninth inning role as leverage guy? Either one is huge
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: for the Cardinals because of his service time. But if
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: you can have a closer that you're not paying 15
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: to $ 20 million for is huge. So I think that's
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: the main thing going forward is is he, is, is,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: does he have another step or is this who he
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: is too? Um, and I, like we always talked about is,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: all right, is, is all-star closer. Can he be that,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: you know, year in and year out, or did he
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: have a, Hey, this was his, this was a ceiling near,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: and now he's going to come back down to what is, uh,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: what he truly is. Um, so those are what pressure,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: the pressure things that I've been talking about in same
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: thing with Jordan is, Are you at your ceiling with
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: this year, or is there another step to go? So
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: that's why I chose the two that I did. All right,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: with Riley, there's no question. He's in the crosshairs, right?
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: So let's examine what he did.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: 38 saves, as you point out, all-star, pretty good. ERA
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: could be a little lower, but 31 years, first time
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: being a full-time closer, we get it. Then I looked
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: the previous year, not as much work. ERA just a
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: tick over two. But here's the thing that got me.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Second half of last year, 0-6, 5.11 ERA, and 16
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: walks over 24 and a third inning. So obviously, and
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: he didn't walk that many in the first half. So obviously,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: he has some things to work on. One of them
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: is getting used to the grind of being a closer,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: you know, three, four times a week. Not easy to do.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: How to get past blowing a save. He had eight
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: blown saves. That's the mental side, right? But for your
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: closer to walk that many guys, that's a recipe for disaster.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: That's something he's got to fix, Lance. Yeah, 100%.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: But like you said, when you start getting up hits
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: and runs, you start losing the strike zone because you
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: don't want to give up hits and you don't want
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: to give up runs, which also causes problems. We've talked
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: about it with Palante the year before, right? His walks
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: were way too high because he didn't want to give
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: up hits. So they started walking. People are trying to
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: be perfect. So hopefully Riley can understand that, Hey, what
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: I did in that first half, I'm going to give
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: up runs. I will blow a save here and there,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: but I'm not going to give them free base runners.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: So I get myself in trouble. And that's what all
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: the setting half was free base runners behind and counts
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: kind of running away from contact because he didn't want
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: to give up runs and that gets yourself in trouble
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: even more. So I think that's a learning experience for him.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Like I said, it was the first full year of
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: doing it at the big league level with all of
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: the pressure of being a closer. So hopefully that will
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: help him understand, hey, I'm going to go through ups
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: and downs, but I cannot give up free base runners
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: or it just gets worse. My guy for being in
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: the pressure cooker in the upcoming season, I'll stay in
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: the bullpen with this, Matt Swanson, 27 years old. We've
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: seen him excel in leverage situations previously. Last year, I
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: think it's fair to say he did not excel in
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: leverage situations. We all like him. We all know the
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: guy can pitch. But a 7.27 ERA last year, over
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: 41 games, not going to get it done. Let's compare
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: him to the year before. 39 games, 4-0, 1.94 ERA.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Might have been their best pitcher the year before last.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: 68 Ks in... you know, in 60 in the third innings.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: So let's be honest. This guy has swing and miss stuff.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: And then last year, it all got away from him.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: His velocity was a tick down. He started walking more
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: guys than the year before. And he kind of lost
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: his confidence. We've seen Matt Swanson. He's got lights out
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: stuff when he's on. The question is, did he get
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: rattled last year? Or can they bring him back? show
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: him the video, help him work through it. Dusty Blake
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: is a great pitching coach. The question is, can he
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: find it again?
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I think the answer is yes, because you don't just
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: lose it like that. Now, the question is, what is it?
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Is it the year before where he was lights out,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: or is it somewhere in between that year and what
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: happened this year? And that's going to be the big
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: question moving forward, is what can you be comfortable with
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: expecting from him, right? I don't think that after this year,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I don't think we can expect him to be a
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: two ERA guy, but he's shown promises of being, hey,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: if he can be a sub three with a strikeout
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: per nine and cancel the walks out because he can
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: strike one guy out per nine, then he's going to
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: be in a good spot. But he's got to eliminate
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: the walks because they were way too high this year.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: And he's got to eliminate putting himself in bad situations.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: I think he did it right out of the gate
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: this year. He was either chasing strikeouts or chasing swing
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: and miss from the get-go, which when you do that,
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: you lose the strike zone and you lose at bats
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: because you get yourself in bad situations. And those all
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: become learning experiences, right? The year before, he came up
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: after the deadline when nothing was expected of him. This year,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: he shows up, makes an open day roster, and you
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: expect it to be a set-up.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: You know, he's never been on an open day roster.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: He was never expecting anything. When he got expected something,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: it didn't go well. So now, how's he going to regroup?
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Who's he going to become? And what's he going to
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: be better for it? Because he's got the stuff to
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: be pretty good.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: I'm going to throw a couple names out there before
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: we go.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I've got no doubt, to be honest, number one and
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: number two people that have the most pressure on them.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: It's Mason Lynn and Libby. There's really no other way
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: to say it. So here's the question. Is Mason Lynn
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: only a glove at shortstop? Can he hit or is
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: he always just going to be a defensive first? And
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: is Lippy going to be able to become a number
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: three starter, legitimate number three starter, or is he going
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: to have to slate back into a leveraged bullpen guy?
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: You've got too good of stuff to be a 4-5
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: starter where you can put him in the back end
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: of a bullpen where he can, like you saw all
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: in the playoffs, the guys that can throw two innings,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: multiple innings, and dominate, they become very, very good to
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: have in a playoff bullpen. Or is he going to be,
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: or we're going to, you know, teams aren't going to
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: waste him in a 4-5 spot with the stuff he has.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: They're going to start, hey, how can I put him
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: back in the back end of a bullpen and be elite?
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: So that's going to be his big thing. And is
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Mason going to hit? Is he going to hit 285
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: and still backs? Or is he going to hit what
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: he did this year and be a defensive first and
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: glove-only shortstop? Those are the two pressure things they've got
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: to worry about.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: So with Mason, I wonder how much we've talked about this,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: how much injuries played a factor in his offensive drop-off.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: In 2024, he had a 730 OPS, 15 homers in 2024.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Then he had nine the next year and just five
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: last year. Like you can see the numbers drop off
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: and that's wear and tear playing shortstop every day. But
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Wynn is still a young guy. He's only 24. I
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: believe that Mason Wynn is 260, 270 with double digit
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: homers and a guy who can contribute to the offense
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: outside of his gold glove, which to me may be
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: the best in all of baseball. No, I'm right there
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: with you. I'm a huge Mason Wynn guy. I'm a
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: huge Libby guy.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: I think Libby's got the ability to be a two
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: in a rotation. Mason Wynn, and I'm going to say this,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: and I've been saying it from the get-go, if you
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: do not put Mason Wynn in the top of the
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: lineup to do what Mason Wynn's capable of, you keep
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: putting him in a hole. You've got to free him up.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: I think from the get-go last year, when you put
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: him in a three-hole, you just put him in a
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: spot to not be successful.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know how else to say it. And when
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: you put him in a nine-hole, it's kind of disrespectful
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: to his talent at the same time. So I'm there
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: in a spot where if you want to get Mason
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: to go and to go the way that he's capable
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: of to be a 280 to 300 peter, he puts
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: bad on ball.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Well, still bases playing the defense and then he'll, he'll
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: clip you for 15 home runs because he's stealing good
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: and feels good about himself. And that's what you need
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: because he is a tone setter to everybody. Offensively defensive.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: He's a spark plug man. And yeah, I know that
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: they like J.J. at the top, but J.J. has the
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: ability to hit anywhere in the lineup because he's got
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: a little different swing and a little different way of
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: going about his game. Mason's a guy that if he's
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: not starting off your game, man, it doesn't get him
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: into the game. And it's not that he's not into
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: the game. It's just when I was with him in 24,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: he started leading off, and there was a difference to
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: the kid that was amazing to see. And then when
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: the guys got healthy, he kind of went back to
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: his spot at the bottom. And you could see him like, man,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: I can do this. I can be the guy. And
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: then for him not to get that opportunity last year,
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: I think that it was a mistake. But they had
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: reasons for it. But Mason, if he's your leadoff guy
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: and JJ's your two and Walker's your three with Burley
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: as your four, I like this top of that lineup.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: And I don't want to deal with it as a
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: pitcher because they hit. They steal bases. They don't really
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: strike out. They're a pain in the ass. There's really
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: no other way to say it. But that's my opinion.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Those are the guys that are under pressure.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Lance, well done. I appreciate the input, buddy. Always fun.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Always fun. You know what? Kyle missed out. He's doing
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: his honey-do list. He missed out. He would have fun too.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: I think Kyle would agree with everything I said.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but for sure he would
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: agree with everything I said. Because Kyle agrees with me
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: on this one thing. Mason went... There is an aura
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: around him when he knows that he gets to go
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: right out of the gate. And the people are like, hey, well,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: you should always be ready. He's always ready. That's not
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: There is a different animal that comes after you that
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: they've kind of caged. And I don't know. You don't
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: know what that does internally and all that to a guy.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: But they've caged him up a little bit. Let Mason
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: win free, baby. And then let these young Cardinals run.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: If you recall, we talked about this before last season.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: I agree. Let him lead off. You know why? Because
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: he's your guy. He wants to do it. And you
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: want to keep the fire, you know, the coals burning. Yep.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know how he feels. But J.J. was great. J.J.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: was great. I'm not big on asking people about their feelings,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: so I would never call Mason and ask him how
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: he feels. But I know how I would feel if
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I'm Mason Wentz.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: And I've done what I've done, gold glove and all that,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: and you show up, Donnie's gone, Lars isn't in the lineup,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: or he's hurt, all these guys are injured, and you
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: don't make me the first hitter of the season on
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: our team, you piss me off, you hurt my feelings.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: There's no other way to say it. People are human beings.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Mason won't admit it. He's never said it, done anything.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: He's done everything right. But they disrespect him by doing that,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: in my opinion. There's no other way to say it,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: and they gave it to a rookie, too.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: That's the problem. JJ's a really good player. Everybody likes him.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: That's not what I'm saying. You give it to a
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: rookie over a guy who was next in line, you
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: feel a little disrespect. There's really no other way to
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: say it. Fair enough, fair enough. That's going to do
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: it for this edition of Cardinal Territory. We'll see you
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: next time. Hopefully that edition won't suck.