Latest / RunThrough Trails / #Ep 52 - Jake Catterall | Connecting Every UTMB Race in 12 Days

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#Ep 52 - Jake Catterall | Connecting Every UTMB Race in 12 Days · RunThrough Trails

0:27
SPEAKER_01: Hello, welcome back to the Run Through Trails Podcast.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: My name is Beth, and I'm your host, and today we have Jake with us.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: It has been an epic week of trail running.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: We have had the UTMB finals take place last week, which was insane.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: I was there in Chamonix and I, yeah, I'm still getting over it.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: Um it was just an incredible week, and we're going to discuss more about UTMB towards the end.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: But Jake has been on the podcast before on the run through podcast, so please check out the episode.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: But he is a trail runner, a world record holder.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: He has done insane challenges.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: The Ocean to Atlantis 350 kilometer trail, firealpina men's record, which is 2,000 kilometres with over 110,000 meters elevation over 35 days, ran the length of Europe, which is 5,660 kilometers, cycled a lap of Iceland, basically you name it, he's done it.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: And um he recently did the new Super Loop, which is completing all the UTMB final races back to back in just 12 and a half days, which was a slight change of plan.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: That wasn't what you initially set out to do.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to discuss this more today.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, Jake, how are you?
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, I've been building up that intro for so many years.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: It it used to just be like one, like, oh yeah, it's this guy who did this one crazy thing.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: And now hearing it like linearly like that, it's um it's really nice.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: It's actually cut, it's that's like a goal for me.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Just have a big long list of crazy stuff that you're known for, you know?
2:02
SPEAKER_01: It's a pretty decent portfolio, I have to say.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: So I think we'll start from the beginning.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: So why running?
2:11
SPEAKER_01: How did you get into these crazy challenges?
2:14
SPEAKER_00: Um basically it started from a sort of unhealthy uh relationship with work that I had.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, I found myself overworking and loving the fact that I was overworking.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I basically was outlasting a lot of people around me.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: A lot of my peers were sort of like overworked and then they'd burn out or whatever.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: But I just seemed to just keep going.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: And the reason I say it's unhealthy is because I got a bit of a kick out of that for some reason.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: And this was early in my career.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I thought, like, one day I kind of just got pushed too much on one of my projects, uh, work projects.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, look, I think I need to I need to funnel this energy into something that's a bit more exciting and a bit more outdoors and stuff that I like.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: Um and I basically just said to myself, okay, well, if you love just like outlasting stuff and going really far or whatever, why don't you just get on a bike?
3:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I live in Amsterdam, so like biking is just like a standard thing here.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: Why don't you just get on a bike and see how far you can go?
3:21
SPEAKER_00: Just in one go.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that day I ended up in uh Berlin.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: So I cycled for 700 kilometers all the way to another capital city.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh and when I got there, I was, I mean, let's be honest, I was absolutely broken.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: Like it was really bad.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: But it's something in my head was like, oh my god, I actually just cycled for 24 hours with like and ended up in a whole new place.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: And I think that was like the starting point of doing all of these crazy things.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: Like I could take myself somewhere all by myself, and just because I loved it, like I I loved the experience of going all the way there, and I think that is that is something that I I still do now.
4:04
SPEAKER_00: Like, I focus on how much I love this stuff, and when people are always looking for some sort of deeper meaning, like, why do people do this?
4:12
SPEAKER_00: What would drive someone to put themselves through so much pain for so long?
4:17
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I just love it, I love it.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: Like, I just it's the greatest thing ever.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: I love being outdoors, I love being on the trails, I love running, I love cycling.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's quite simple, really.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: I I just love it.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: That is crazy.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: I was really expecting you to say something like, yeah, well, I started with couch to 5k, and then no, you just like did you do sport beforehand?
4:40
SPEAKER_01: How did you just cycle 700 kilometers?
4:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I I I've always liked sport.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: So my dad was a runner.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: I was uh like running uh at uni and at school, and I I always I mean it was something that it was always a part of me, but I wouldn't say I was like a professional runner or something.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: I just loved I I I do I've always liked running.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh cycling kind of came on a bit later because I then did a bit more like bikepacking.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: I got like a little bag and went places or whatever, but it was never major and it wasn't and up until that point where I was just like, right, like let's just see how far I can go.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: Then that's what opened the door to everything else.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing there.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: And it just shows the power of the mind.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: And like when you channel another passion and then change it into something that's maybe a bit more of a healthy habit and something that you're equally as driven towards, but just using that energy in a different form, like the power it can have.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: Because yeah, cycling from Outstown to Berlin just that's that's so cool and so like crazy.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: Just yeah.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: I take it you got the train back, you didn't cycle back.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: I actually got a bus home, I got a coach home, and I didn't even think that I was like traveling across to a different country.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: So I didn't bring my passport, I didn't bring anything.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: I I literally just brought like my my card with me, and then that was it.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: So when getting home was a bit of a struggle, actually, because they require you to have a passport to travel across borders.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: So I really had to like I had to like find digital copies and like I was like because they were really uh were quite adamant about not letting me on without a physical passport, you know.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: But yeah I think I think he understood like how broken I looked and just how bad I was and he was like right just just get on.
6:24
SPEAKER_01: That will be quite an entertaining story.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: Why haven't you got your passport?
6:27
SPEAKER_00: Well, I just woke up this morning and I thought I'll see I'll park a cycle and stuff in but then but honestly, he just did not believe this story, like for for all of the right reasons, like he didn't believe me, and then I I just kept trying to tell him, but I didn't have any I didn't have much energy left, so it was quite hard to convince this guy, you know.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: No, it's actually so funny.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: I would have loved to have seen his face, like so.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: More recently, you did the super loop.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't initially what you'd set out to do.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: So can you tell us a bit more about this journey and how the super loop came about?
7:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, the super loop is uh just a reminder, it's all eight UTMB races that are hosted in Jam.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: So there's like a bunch of different ones.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: There's like one that's 40 kilometers, one that's 60 kilometers, one that's 100, one that's 140, another that's 300, uh, one that's 160.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: So there's a bunch of different ones, and they're all kind of different um uh technical levels.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: So there's some that are more runnable than others.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I had no ambition of doing this up until very recently because my focus this year was trying trying to complete uh the Alpine Connections mission that's famously completed by um Killian Yornet in 2024.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: Um and it's just a well, just it's it's an alpine mission, so it's basically like higher altitude uh all the 4,000 meter peaks of the Alps, which I trained basically like 10 months for, so very specific, and it was about learning how to operate in the mountains.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: And of course, uh you never know um how much training you need for a mission like this, uh, but I felt like I was gonna go into this uh really strong.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: I was mountain fit for sure.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: Uh I spent um a month with my new climbing partner, like learning how to operate together.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: So we put quite a lot of resource into um yeah, giving this a proper shot.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, and during our training, um the heat wave number one came, heat wave number two came, um, and everyone started panicking about how kind of dangerous the the alpine world was looking.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, like the ice was melting, rockfall was way more prominent, uh, and news channels, especially for alpinism, uh, were just really red flagging, like, don't go to the mountains.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: And we were actually on, we I was actually climbing the Matterhorn by myself on the day uh of like seeing all of these warnings.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: And to be honest, I was kind of a bit confused because the the warnings were like red alert, don't go to the mountains, whilst we were actually currently on the Matterhorn.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: So it felt very strange, like there was some sort of disconnect going on.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: It was like there was very strong recommendation from like the mountain world, but then for us, I was like, we have a really clear passage to the summit, and I summited by myself.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: So I did a solo climb of uh Matterhorn, which I was very proud of.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's not something I advertised for people to do themselves, but it actually was a little boy dream of mine to do this, so I was actually really hyped to have done it, but it just happened in a moment where people were kind of um yeah, they didn't really support it so much because one, it was solo, but two, because it was apparently very dangerous.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: So, anyway, we go into uh the actual mission itself, which happened a month later.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, truthfully, the the mountains were a disaster.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: Like it was like the mountain quality was really, really bad.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: Uh crevasses were like you could see the soul of the earth from the top, you know, literally like there was just a no-end to the to the hole in the ground, and then there was just like wet snow, all the snow bridges were weak.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, it was yeah, it was just treacherous, to be honest.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: And also my climbing partner um experienced quite a lot of altitude um sickness as well.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: So that was also a layer on top that was bad.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: And you've got to understand that like what I do, it takes me a year to actually train, plan, and actually go out, start at the start line of one of these missions.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: So after day one, it was already very clear that what we were doing was highly dangerous and very risky.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, I would then cycle the next day to the next mountain range because that was the format of the mission.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: You basically summit a 4,000, you come down, and if you could just run up to the next one, you would.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: But if it was too far, you would cycle to the next one.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: So I cycled 200k to the next mountain range, which is also a really long way.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: Um and day three started, and it was just the exact same thing again.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: So it was just razor-sharp rocks, which we're used to, but razor sharp rocks that have no stability whatsoever, like things are just flying off, like you're grabbing rocks, and it's just basically the the the mountain was just disintegrating.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: Um so I kind of got to the top, well, almost to the top of the the second day, and I was looking at my situation.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: I was looking down, and I was like, damn, if I climb down myself here, it's gonna be very treacherous.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: If I continue uh alone, it's gonna be very treacherous.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: Basically, any option of what I do next is gonna be treacherous.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I knew it was gonna be risky, obviously, but like to this level, I think it was a bit of a different story.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: So um I got back down to the van safely, which was great.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was a very easy one for me just to call off the whole project because it just was too much.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: Like the level of risk just far exceeded what I what I thought it was gonna be.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, and my crew, Jess Rowe, uh Jess, and it's amazing that her last name is Roe because um she she has Atlantic and Pacific records for rowing across the ocean.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: I love it, it's so good.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure she gets that joke all the time, but she she is geared up the same way I am.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: So she knew when I got to the van that like going home after day three was not gonna be good.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh, not only because it it would have felt like a fail, but also afterwards, for like days, weeks, months afterwards, I would have been in my own head about this.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, we all we all always had the plan to go back to Chamony after this uh mission.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh so we kind of made a quick decision like, why don't we go back to Sham just to sort of regroup, uh, rethink about what we could potentially do whilst we have the van and the team and whatever.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and as a sort of like easy suggestion, she just said, like, well, whilst we're there, why don't you just do one of the UTMB routes?
13:27
SPEAKER_00: And I said respectfully, it's quite small in comparison to what I was just trying to do.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: And listen, like UTMB is massive, and I'm not trying to downsize what that is because people train for years and years and years to do this thing.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: But under the situation we were in, it was a small suggestion in comparison to what we were doing.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: And she replied to this by just saying, Well, why don't you just do them all then?
13:55
SPEAKER_00: And that was it.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that is the craziest thing I've heard in a long time.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: And I literally was just like, Cool, that sounds wicked, actually.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: No one's gonna no one's gonna even think that that's even possible, let alone like and the PTL is also crazy as well, to even suggest that within the same thing.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: So basically that was how the idea was born.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: It was not my idea, it was Jess's.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we basically had a five-day window uh where we would sort of regroup, get to Sham, figure out the tracks, because that was also hard to get our hands on, um, and then basically start and just go blind into this project.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: And is first of all really sad the state of the mountains, like that is just yeah, it's like even I've only been to well, the first time I went to Chamonix was this time last year, and like I've been four times since, and I can just in the space of a year, you can see the difference, and it's actually like it's scary to look at because you just think if this is a change we're seeing in one year, like what's it gonna be like in five?
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, exactly.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, really not cool.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: And then, yeah, that's just crazy that it's gone from you know that big challenge to another big challenge, but it's nice that you will still be able to do it because, like, I don't know, like let's say for example, it's not the same scale, but I've not been able to do a race so I'm injured or something.
15:15
SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel heartbroken.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: So, like, I can't even imagine when you've planned and trained to do such a big event, yeah.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: Like, it's emotional not being able to do what you set out complete, especially when you feel physically fit and you're ready for it and you just other conditions mean that you can't do it.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but let's say you had done the challenge, how many days had you kind of blocked out to do it?
15:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, we had a month in total to try and figure out everything, and that was that was including travel and figuring ourselves out.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: So, in terms of the structure around us, um, like we had it.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, the van was there, the team was there, everything was there.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: So it was just sort of like it it was a double shame that you'd kind of gone to these great lengths to get all the right people involved and uh a a van that would hold us all in there, and then it would just be over, you know, because yeah, because of because of what, you know, like as you said, I wasn't injured, I didn't have a knee injury, I did I was I was so hungry for a mission, and not only that, I was also fit enough to pull the trigger on one.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: So it was like when this one came up, I didn't really think much about it after that.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: It was it was such a ridiculous r um suggestion that I literally was just like, yeah, fuck it, let's do it.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, why not?
16:33
SPEAKER_01: And I love that.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: I love the way that you just kind of like rather than just feeling sorry for yourself and sorry for your crew, you actually thought, you know what, let's go and do something else.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, something like this, you would think that you would need loads of planning, you know, loads of time, but you did a quick turnaround and got it done, and it's like it just shows that like if you put your mind to something and like you've got the right people around you, it's definitely possible.
16:55
SPEAKER_01: But the super loop, so I'm presuming it was MCC, do you do ETC?
17:01
SPEAKER_00: Well, I can tell you it for for the um for the people who know the names of the races, because yeah, all of these short abbreviations are like so confusing if you don't know what they are.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, but they're they're basically there's two of three uh sorry, four races that go in one direction and the rest kind of do like loops.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: So we just had to try and figure out how do we um knit together like logistically how all of these routes um make it so it works from like a logistical looping point of view rather than starting at the official start lines each time because we would have to drive for hours to to get back to start lines, you know.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: So what we ended up doing is we did uh an out and back uh on the first day, which was the MCC and the OCC.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: So you basically run away from Sham and then you come back to Sham in the same day.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then so it's MCC first, then OCC, then we do a complete lap of Mont Blanc doing the UTMB uh track.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh so that gets you all the way back to Sham.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: From there, we did the uh TDS, so the TDS would go in reverse to uh Kurmoye, which is on the other side of uh the mountain.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: From there, there are these two mountain circuits, so it's the ETC and the YCC, so we did that all in the same day.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then the CCC, so the Kurmoyer to Chamonix route, we took that one back to Chamonix, and then from there we finished with the PTL.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: Um the PTL is a 300 kilometer, basically off-trail uh alpine mission, which by the way is the most ruthless trail run ever.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: And to put that at the end of all of this is almost a bit sadistic, you know.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: No, I couldn't believe how sketchy PTL looked.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not really someone that does beer for a and stuff like that, so it's definitely out of my comfort zone.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I look wild.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: The fact that well, I know you were out there for a lot longer, but like for me, like six days out on the trails, like that's such a long time.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, no, it is, yeah.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: Crazy.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: Is there like a pacific section or race that you actually surprised yourself and you really liked it, or was there a bit that you were like, oh, this is horrible?
19:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I I think even though that the the PTL was the hardest out of all of them, um, I think I enjoyed it probably the most because it was kind of what I wanted from the Alpine Connection.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: So that the entire time for the PTL, I I actually felt a lot more alive than the rest of them because everything was super sketchy and the the trail, you just get lost off trail like so easily.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: So you really had to be on top of it, and that's something that I signed up for for the Alpine Connection, you know.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: So it was that might sound weird to say, but like I actually wanted the difficulties uh because I'm I'm at a very good level when it comes to being outside, so it I wanted it to be tough, you know, and in many ways the the UTMB uh loop it is actually a lot more of a runnable track in comparison to a lot of the other ones, and that yes, there is a lot of vertical gain, but if you can compare it to, for instance, the TDS, the TDS is a very challenging run.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: And I would say the TDS is actually way harder than the UTMB track, like by a long way, because it's the the size of the trail can only fit like one foot at a time, so you you're having to sort of do this overlapping run, and when you put poles into the ground, you don't know if it's a bush or if it's a solid piece of ground, you know.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: So when you're looking for stability, you're putting your poles into the ground and you're just falling, you the pole is just falling off into nowhere, you know.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: So and that never happened on UTMB, you know?
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the UTMB course is smoothed out by all the people hiking Tour de Mont Blanc all year and then a lot more rugged.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, no, I've heard that TDS is yeah, a lot harder.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: And I think UTMB, like I assumed, like, because like you said, there's a lot of uh it was going to be really technical.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: And then when I went out, I've not ran the race, I've just run the course on multiple days.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: And I like when you compare it to places like Snowdia, like UTS is so much harder than UTMB.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh really?
21:32
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I it surprised me actually.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: But when you look at the finish times as well, like when people do things like UTS in Wales, it those finish times are a lot slower, to be fair, so it makes sense.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, UTMB, it's a very nice course, actually.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: I think the Americans find it quite technical because it is technical compared to the American trails.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: But I think for British runners who are used to Snowdonia, yeah, it's a lot like smoother and easier to run on.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: So do you think you'd do PTL or is like racing not really your
22:00
SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: Because people keep asking me this because we've we've been kind of comparing the times of what I was finishing all of these races in.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: And if if you kind of took out the the sleeping element, because obviously we had to sleep in some areas, and I was averaging somewhere between uh basically every day was around 5,000 meters of vertical gain every day.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: So we we we didn't screw around with with the vert, but it did have a big impact on like the distance.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: So if it was technical, then the distance would be s would be less, but the vert would still be 5,000.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: But if it wasn't technical, then we would be able to get really far.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: So if some days we were hitting 100, 110 kilometers in one go.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: Um but it was just purely based on the the trail, you know.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: So we have been looking at sort of like what would it be if I like ran just one pure race on its own.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: But like I'm just I'm a big adventure guy, and the fun, the fun continues when you're doing long projects.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: So for me, like half a day or 12 hours of running or something, it's just it's not enough for me.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: Like I I really want to be I want to be out there in the elements under a lot of pressure, and that's the thing that really gets me hyped up.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, of course, maybe I would I would do a race if someone was like, hey, do you want to join one?
23:27
SPEAKER_00: But it definitely isn't my focus.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm not gonna be signing up for ETC then.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: That'll just be a warm-up.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, probably, yeah, probably not, yeah.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, I a lot of my training and how I actually prepare for these kinds of things is I'm I'm notoriously do low mileage, like low weekly mileage, and this blows people's minds always because they they ask you sort of, okay, so you're gonna be focused on a 900 kilometer mission and you want to do 100 Ks per day or something, uh, and then they say, Oh, you must be doing 150 kilometers uh per week or 200k per week or something, and I'm like, not even close.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: Like, I I I'm very happy with a 70 kilometer training week, and to be honest, if I'm pushing it to 100, it feels like a lot, so it's it's weird because people are so focused on like it's gotta be high mileage, we've got to get high mileage, but I've kind of felt that I practice a lot of my training on 5k and 10k runs, and my 5k and 10k runs are super specific, so it's either very fast, like I'm running as hard as I can, or I'm focused on foot landing, or how I can better my trail stability, or um, like for instance, I train in Cape Town for two months per year, and I ran the same trail like every single day for almost the whole time because I just wanted to focus on my downhill um like calculation, my mental calculation.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: It had nothing to do with my mental, my physical speed.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: It was all about like how fast I could process obstacles, and I did this, I literally just did this for two months, you know, and and that's how like focused I get on things.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: It's just I really like I played this game uh which was uh funnily enough called Never Stop.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: And Never Stop basically was even if you can't see around the next brow or the next turn, you have to go a hundred percent speed like the whole way through.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: And I did this because I wanted to train my reactive uh thinking, so like how quick I could react to to danger, and it would improve uh how I could get my body positioning around corners, how I could place my foot in a better way, and ultimately remove the the hesitation.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: Because I think hesitation is the thing that actually screws us up most of the time because you're like, ah, damn, like the the roots look tricky or the rock look hard, or I don't know what's coming next.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: But if you take out all of those thoughts, actually there is no problem because you could probably solve it on any given day, but you you just think that you need a bit of extra time to just assess what's going on in front of you.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: But for me, I don't think I need it.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: I don't need that now because I know that no matter what I'm going into, no matter how sketchy or rooty or wet it is, I know that like I'll be able to solve it when I get around the corner.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: No, to be fair, I need to do that.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: My descending ability is driving me up the wall.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm really not very good at descending, and it's so frustrating.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you how frustrated I get.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: I try not to get frustrated, but I do because my uphill fitness and my flat fitness just does not reflect my downhill.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: Really?
26:55
SPEAKER_01: And I need to I hesitate so much.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: It was um I was running in Latour not yesterday before, and like on the downhill, I it was actually it was the first time that I was like, oh my god, the reason why I'm so slow is because I hesitate too much every single time I see anything, I'm like, oh wait a minute, let me think about this.
27:12
SPEAKER_01: Like, no one runs so slow, so maybe I need to play the don't stop.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: But but there there are levels to don't stop, like and I wouldn't suggest full send straight away because you probably jump off a mountain somewhere, but it's about managing your speed.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's like let's say you you set a slow speed that you're comfortable with, and then you play don't stop.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: So it's like you constantly, no matter what, like you you're just slowly gliding through, and once you get through that, it's like level one, you know, and then level two is you go a little bit faster, but not too fast, and then do the same, and then level two and level three and whatever.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: But by the time you get to level ten, it is kind of wild.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: Like you you're you're you're running fast and you are literally not knowing what's coming next, you know.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: Too, I would I want to see the day that I get to level 10 because it's Bill's like the slowest process ever of me running downhill.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: I am improving, but if you looked at my pace on the downhill, you would think a snail has overtaken me.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: Like it's oh really it's yeah, it's shocking my downhill ability.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: But then it's annoying because I'm not bad at the uphill.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, I love a VK.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: I did do the Chamoni VK while I was away because I was like, oh, thank goodness, no downhill.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: Um but in terms of training as well, you kind of touched on it, but obviously you live in Amsterdam.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: Amsterdam's pretty flat from what I know.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: I've never personally been, and there's not much trails.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: Do you spend a lot of time going away or does flat running still help your training?
28:37
SPEAKER_00: So training for me is I I'm a big advocate for using what you have around you.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I really, really don't like when people sort of limit themselves.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: They say, Oh, well, I can't do a trail race because I live in London or I live in Amsterdam or wherever.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, because I I've I'm living proof that you can use one, like one track, you know.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: So I use Vondel Park as my track, it's not like a running track, but it's like it's a circuit that I can run around and it's just tarmac and it's flat.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: And you can get I think almost like 70% of all your training needs done there.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: So that's like number one.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, and number two is if you are gonna go into doing Vert, then you need you need to go up.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: Like it's just like the only thing you can do.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh so I then use a Stairmaster, and the Stare Master is just it's just what I have to do.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: And people kind of like use a very they're always like, oh, the Stairmaster, oh it's grueling and horrible.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, two hours can pass on a on a Stairmaster for me, and I and I love it.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: It's like you you again, it's I I get very obsessive with what muscles am I actually using here?
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, why why am I using them?
29:51
SPEAKER_00: For what reason?
29:52
SPEAKER_00: And why why is this foot landing slightly better than another foot landing, you know?
29:57
SPEAKER_00: And like if it's just all in the glutes, or if I'm not using my poles, like how does that affect my cardiovascular system?
30:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, like what load am I putting on my cardiosystem if I don't use poles, for example?
30:10
SPEAKER_00: And you really can get like so inwards about like what your body's doing, and you can know your body extremely well from doing stuff like stairmaster training, you know, because on trails, I mean, if you run it on trails, it's just exciting.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: Like everything's amazing, or you're getting battered by some kind of element, and it's hard to then look internally and think about what's going on inside, you know.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: So for me, I'm very obsessive with just what feeling is doing what, like what outcome of using polls or not using poles is happening, or if I'm having to sidestep for a reason, what does that do to me?
30:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, so constantly when I'm training, um I will I'll definitely not speak to anyone whilst I'm training because I'm constantly thinking about things.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I just put on a great playlist and and listen to music and think about what my body's doing.
31:04
SPEAKER_00: So that's that's my approach to training.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: Like it's very flat, but I just use what I have around me.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: And it's so true, like you can actually train for these things.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: Like if you've got access to a gym or a park or just some place that you can do it, and it is like that's what's why trail running is so cool.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: Like, I love the puzzle.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like if you were to do an all-out marathon, you just kind of run in a straight line, you've got to stick to this speed, and you just kind of hold it.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: Whereas I think trail running is like a jigsaw puzzle, like you're constantly trying to figure things out, learn new things, and yeah, I too that I enjoy the Stare Master too, although I miss the fresh air, like I don't appreciate the gym air, but otherwise, I enjoy it.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: I like an Omnestic on Golden Trail series and watch a race or watch a UTMB highlight.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: So I do enjoy the Stare Master.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: The the only the thing that's like good and bad about being in a commercial gym, especially on a Stare Master, is I sweat like a lot.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: Like I really sweat.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: And if I've been on the Stare Master for 30 minutes, like the taps have opened, you know?
32:06
SPEAKER_00: So it's like like everything beneath me is completely soaked, and then it's like one hour or one hour 30.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: It's just basically uh it's a complete mess around me.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: So when people come in and they're sort of like looking at what machine is free or not, they look at the the three machines next to me and they're like, Yeah, yeah, I'll pass on that one.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: Like he's he's way too crazy looking for for me today.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: No, Staremaster is grim, it's not it's not an attractive sport, it's grim.
32:36
SPEAKER_01: Like, oh I I would if I watched people on the Stare Master and didn't understand why they were doing it, I'd be like, Why, why are you doing that right now?
32:43
SPEAKER_01: Like, that looks horrific.
32:45
SPEAKER_01: But on your super loop, what was your kit of choice?
32:49
SPEAKER_01: What shoes did you wear and stuff like that?
32:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I was in uh mostly Essex um uh shoes and gear, um, and I had a rotation of only three pairs of shoes.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I used the Meta Fuji 2 um as like my main pair, the speed four because I really love it.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a more of a sort of like it's less padding, it's a lot more, you really can feel whatever you're putting your feet on.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: Um because the Fuji 2 is like uh the stack is slightly higher.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: So basically for UTMB track, it that shoe was perfect the whole way around.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: Um the speed four felt better on sort of like very jagged, like harder rocks where I really needed to be sure about foot landing.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I use uh Trabuco um 14 uh Gore-Tex for very like squelchy, watery, stormy conditions.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, and this was actually learning from the my Via Alpina mission is that uh no matter what day, if it rained the day before or it was sunny, if you're running through grassy kind of environments in the morning, your feet are gonna get soaked.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: And it literally is like just the humidity and the condensation that collects around the grass, they will soak your shoes out completely.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh so very often, if that was happening, I would use the Gore-Tex in the morning and then I would do a shoe change basically as soon as that dried up.
34:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, fair.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: You went for ASICs.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: To be fair, I guess a lot of the winning runners or runners that did well, uh, ASICs.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: I have got a pair, I can't remember what they are.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: I think they're the Kim, I you said it, I can't remember how you say it, but yeah, no, it's interesting what I'm always so intrigued by what shoes people use because everyone's got their own preference and they all obviously work, but it's just it's crazy how some shoes people like absolutely not, and then there's someone winning UTMB in them, so they must be decent shoes and vice versa.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, something that I I found, especially on the longer distance missions, is uh this kind of the sock style shoe.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, it it like creates less friction and bruising.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but this is very particular for very long distance.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: So like we're talking more than two, three, four hundred kilometers.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: And I felt that like if you really have a shoe strapped to your foot for a long period of time, we're talking days, like it does create some irritation.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: So I I naturally found um a liking to the to the stocks uh socks style shoe, uh, just because it wouldn't like bruise the upper part of my foot.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: And like obviously, you think you're always gonna be focused on the what's happening to your toes and like if you're gonna have blisters or whatever, but when it gets into ultra long distance, for me particularly, the upper becomes uh something I have to solve also.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: No, it makes sense to be fair, and it is crazy that how many people have to DNF because of their feet.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: Like you think it'd be like your quads go or your glutes or your hamstrings or whatever, but it is actually most of the time feet, so it makes sense.
36:02
SPEAKER_00: I let me pull this up because I've been kind of obsessed.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: This is not a feet picture, we're not gonna get onto like uh only feet account or something.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I you just mentioned DNF right then.
36:15
SPEAKER_00: I've and I've kind of been a bit obsessed with the DNF rates of UTMB.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'll share with you four of the races, the the percentages of DNFs.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: I'd say I enjoyed reading these posts actually.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: I appreciated you putting them up.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: Because like I found that it was a a bit of a measure of how hard this was, because no one really understood like what I did.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: When you explain it, they're sort of like, what, like eight races?
36:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, are they all after each other?
36:44
SPEAKER_00: Like they didn't really understand.
36:45
SPEAKER_00: So what made it easier for me to give a measure of success, actually, was what contributes to DNFs is the conditions, right?
36:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, the hardness of the race itself, and then other factors like time cutoffs.
37:00
SPEAKER_00: I did a bit of research on time cutoffs, and it doesn't seem like the these percentages are that heavily swayed on the time.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: So it had a lot to do with the conditions.
37:11
SPEAKER_00: So it was very hot this these last weeks, and it was also stormy.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: So I I experienced both of those, and I'll go in line starting with TDS.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: So TDS percentage of DNF was 44%, so almost half of the entire field didn't make it to the end of TDS, which to me is like mind-blowing, like really crazy.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: UTMB was 30%, so 30% of the main race didn't make it, which I just think is wild.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: And that's actually quite low, as in normally it's higher than that.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: Really?
37:47
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I thought that that was like crazy high.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: No, I've seen it all the way.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: If I remember correctly, I think normally averages at least a third of the field, too.
37:57
SPEAKER_01: We're looking at more like 35 to 40%, because I was out on the UTMB course following it through the night, and the runners that I spoke to actually said this was the best conditions they'd faced in years.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: So really is so that's actually a good statistic, but TDS I don't think is normally that high.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:12
SPEAKER_00: CCC is almost 25% and OCC was 20%.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: So like for me, when I'm like looking at these percentages, it kind of gives someone looking at my project a bit of a like a bit of an understanding of like how tough it was out there for people, you know.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: And if you just look at those races in isolation, those percentages are massive.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: But for me, I had to finish one of those races, stop my watch, load my next track, and then run again and just go again, you know?
38:45
SPEAKER_00: So it was the compounding effect of how challenging my event was was huge, you know.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: No, it is crazy.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what the percentage is for PTL?
38:56
SPEAKER_00: Because I imagine that must be also it was actually 30%.
39:00
SPEAKER_01: Only 30%, as in like didn't finish.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh fair, I thought it'd be higher than that.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: No, it is crazy.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: And I think, well, TDS to be fair, they had awful weather the first night, so that makes sense for a higher rate, but yeah, doing them back to back, like anyone who's done any of the courses will know that that is tough.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: Like and to do it in 12 and a half days as well, that's not long at all.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there was like one, there was one particular day because um we did not have plane sailing the whole way either.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: Like we we were either getting cooked, like actually cooked, because it was so hot, and like you can't see my neck, but my neck is just completely it's the most tanned thing I've ever had on my body in my whole life because my my neck was just getting fried.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, but there was one particular day where it was so hot the whole day, and I was going into a uh mountain range, and I sort of was thinking to myself, like, I definitely do not need my weather kit with me because it's so hot, like this completely blue sky everywhere.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: Like just taking my jacket is just feels like a bit much, you know.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: But I was like, the the weather can change very fast.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna take it either way, so I'm gonna go.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: And I was climbing up this uh like almost scree field where like every step that you make, like the whole floor is just slipping beneath you, so it was kind of wild, and you know, it's quite exciting all at the same time.
40:32
SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm pushing for this kind of uh like summit where I would then drop onto the other side of a valley.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: So I'm pushing and pushing and pushing, and I'm going up, and then on the way down, it was even more tricky.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: But instead of it being scree, it was these huge boulders, and every time you put your foot on a boulder, because it's so big, you're like, okay, well, it's massive boulder, I'm not gonna fall on this one.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: But you would end up like pushing the boulder down with an extra 10 other boulders, so you were kind of like like surfing, boulder surfing down the it was crazy, and obviously there's no one around, like absolutely zero people.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: And then I see this guy who has a big like kit with him, he has a tent or whatever, and I just came to him and was like, dude, I haven't seen anyone the entire day.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: Like, do you want to just have a chat?
41:23
SPEAKER_00: Like, because it would be quite nice just to be human for a second and like um whatever.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: So we have a quick chat.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh he's like, Yeah, I'm a bit nervous about this um descending because it's quite scary.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, and we have a chat, and I say, like, good luck, and I'm gonna go on my way.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: And almost the second that I left him, like, the sky just turns black.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: Like huge clouds come over the top of our heads, and I was like, Whoa, like I hope that um I hope that this rain jacket that I have is gonna be enough for this because it uh I didn't know how hard it was gonna come down.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: Dude, it was the hardest, heaviest, most hectic storm I've ever been in.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: And I was definitely underprepared for it because I just had a long sleeve, a t-shirt, a long sleeve, and my rain jacket and nothing else.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: And it was like massive balls of hail, like sidewards rain, like absolutely crazy.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: And it was, I thought that I just had to run out of the valley, but it turns out I had to make a 500-meter climb first before I could go down where my crew was, and the entire trail turned into a river.
42:34
SPEAKER_00: So I'm like climbing up these stairs, and it's just an ocean of water coming back the other way.
42:40
SPEAKER_00: And I was cold and I was also tired, and it was at the end of my day, and I and I had struggled quite a lot with uh calorie intake, like taking enough calories in the day it had been a challenge because it was so hot.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: So, in my head, I was just thinking, just go slowly, slowly and just make it through the day, even if you arrive late, but like going up a gear, like going up to a fast pace for me felt like I might burn too many matches and that I might be just completely screwed at that point.
43:11
SPEAKER_00: And then the rain came, and the only way that I could actually stay dry and warm was to just go harder.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: So I I had no choice, I had to go up this hill as hard as I possibly could just to keep my body temperature in the right way, but it was like wild.
43:29
SPEAKER_00: Like, imagine like uh like Mordor uh and Gollum and like going up the back of this like mountain, these crazy stairs, and I was just getting like ravaged by this storm.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: And then the storm finishes, and then it's all good, and everything's fine again, and no one will ever know, experience like what it was to f to go through this, and they're like, Oh yeah, was it stormy?
43:51
SPEAKER_00: You're like, Yeah, it was, and I literally like could have died if I didn't like go hard enough, you know.
43:57
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it was quite it was quite exciting.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: So whatever the TDS guys went through, I'm absolutely sure I went through the exact same thing.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is crazy how quickly the weather changes.
44:07
SPEAKER_01: And although we all, well, in challenges, it's your own mandatory kit list that you've set.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: But like in races, when you're there and you're like, oh, why do I have to carry all this mandatory kit list?
44:16
SPEAKER_01: Especially when you look at like the UTMB kit list and it's like six pages long.
44:19
SPEAKER_01: It just shows because it can be like glorious weather outside, and before you know it, you're in a hail storm and it's horrific and you're being blown off the side of a mountain.
44:27
SPEAKER_01: Like it really does change quickly.
44:31
SPEAKER_01: Kind of moving on, like that has just been an incredible story.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: And I also think you need to bring out a book because the amount of mad things I feel like I've seen some mad things in the mountains, but you've spent a lot more time in the mountains, so I feel like you'd have some crazy stories.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: But you kind of have said on previous podcasts that the main goal is to race across Antarctica.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: Is that still the end goal?
44:52
SPEAKER_00: That that goal has evolved a lot for me.
44:56
SPEAKER_00: Um basically that goal was the thing that has put my life in the direction that I've always wanted it to be.
45:05
SPEAKER_00: Like I've I've always I always um thought that like my life would end up like this, but when I was starting my first career, it it took so much of my energy that like I stopped doing the things that I actually love doing, you know, being outdoors or what have you.
45:22
SPEAKER_00: Um and choosing the Antarctica goal actually just streamlined my entire life, right?
45:31
SPEAKER_00: So it it gave purpose to all the things I wanted to do.
45:35
SPEAKER_00: It helped me with sponsorships because people understood that like doing this small challenge was a lead up to something bigger and greater, and people bought into that story and like supported me because of it.
45:47
SPEAKER_01: So every week we have a piece of trail news each to share on what's going on in the trail news world.
45:53
SPEAKER_01: So my piece of news is that UCMV week obviously happened last week, which was just insane.
45:59
SPEAKER_01: The races were so, so, so exciting, and I think the depth of the field has never been this stacked.
46:06
SPEAKER_01: So OCC, I'm just gonna go through the finals races.
46:09
SPEAKER_01: The winner was Frederick Tranchard, who did it in five hours 10, which I can't quite comprehend how someone can run 60k with 3,500 metres elevation in 5 hours 10.
46:19
SPEAKER_01: But it was a new OCC course, and yeah, he absolutely smashed it.
46:23
SPEAKER_01: He did look dead though when I saw him with about 500 metres to go.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: But if like if he ran that fast, then I think he would look pretty dead.
46:29
SPEAKER_01: And then he had a four-minute lead on, I'm sorry if I pronounce his names wrong, Nashon Kip Leon from Kenya, and then three minutes further behind was Miguel from Portugal.
46:40
SPEAKER_01: The women's race was probably the most exciting race I've ever watched in my life.
46:45
SPEAKER_01: Lauren Gregory won in six hours and eight minutes and seven seconds, and then three seconds behind was Naomi Lang.
46:53
SPEAKER_01: At the time, I was on the river, so maybe like 500 metres to go.
46:56
SPEAKER_01: So Naomi Lang was pretty much winning it the whole race.
47:00
SPEAKER_01: And being from Great Britain, I really wanted Naomi to win.
47:03
SPEAKER_01: I just love the girl, I think she's so cool.
47:05
SPEAKER_01: And literally with 400 meters to go, Lauren Gregory just went past, and it was a battle to the finish, and in the end, a three-second gap.
47:16
SPEAKER_01: And at the finish time, Lauren Gregory started celebrating, and I thought in her celebration she kind of slowed down a little bit, and I was like, Naomi Lang's gonna pass her.
47:24
SPEAKER_01: It was so close, but both the girls were just super happy, and I think Naomi Lang would be very happy with second place.
47:31
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you won the win, but an incredible performance because all three of the girls, it was I think the longest race they've ever done, like the kind of golden trail kind of distance girls.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, and then third place, only again one minute behind, of which Lauren Gregory, a few kilometres out, was in fourth place.
47:47
SPEAKER_01: She came past all of these women, and in third place, one minute behind was Sarah Alonso.
47:52
SPEAKER_01: Then CCC, we had Christian Minoggio, who did it in 10 hours and 21 minutes.
47:59
SPEAKER_01: We then had Miguel Arsenio, I'm gonna say, who was six minutes behind, and then Hans Troja that was a further six minutes behind.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: Again, a very exciting race.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: There was a big pack of them towards the front for a lot of the race, and CCC had some dodgy conditions, so absolute fair play.
48:18
SPEAKER_01: Another very exciting race.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: Yingerville, Caspen won in 12 hours and one minute, of which, when they got to Trion, she was I think either like around eighth.
48:30
SPEAKER_01: She overtook the field, like she looked so strong coming into Trion and then just flew past everyone.
48:35
SPEAKER_01: Maybe she might have been a bit further up field.
48:37
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, she was far back.
48:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then Tony McCann was five minutes behind, and then Meow Yao a further eight minutes behind.
48:46
SPEAKER_01: UTMB, we had Ben Diemen win the women win win the men's race in eight hours 16 and got a staggering index of 995, which I don't know whether this is true, but in my head, I think that's the highest index anyone has ever been given.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: And they delayed the start by two hours on the day, so there was lots of drama going on.
49:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, and the CCC course also had changes, so yeah, I imagine the UTMB organizers were a bit stressed.
49:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then third Ben Dieman won by 30 minutes with Baptiste 30 minutes behind, and then Caleb Olsen was 45 seconds behind.
49:23
SPEAKER_01: And then the women's race, if anyone was watching Bladine on the final descent, probably cried like me.
49:29
SPEAKER_00: We all cried, I think everyone cried.
49:31
SPEAKER_01: But Blondine won by 21 hours and 54 minutes, an incredible race from Blondine, who looked so strong until the final bit, and I genuinely thought when she fell over, she wasn't gonna get back up, so I'm very glad that she did make it.
49:45
SPEAKER_01: But I don't think I've ever seen someone quite so broken crossing the UTMB finish line.
49:50
SPEAKER_01: And then 20 minutes behind was Rachel Eskren, and then a third of 90 seconds behind Rachel was Emily Schmitz.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: I also want to give her a shout out to Team Adaptive.
50:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm so sorry, I don't know their names off the top of my head, but they had some incredible performances.
50:06
SPEAKER_01: I don't have a clue how they got those wheelchairs across the course because and I was in Cormayer and I watched the front runners come through and then I stuck around for a few hours.
50:18
SPEAKER_01: I just couldn't believe how far up the field they were.
50:20
SPEAKER_01: I was like, how the hell did you do those descents with all those switchbacks?
50:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, with all those people.
50:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I actually don't know how they did it, like absolute respect to them all.
50:31
SPEAKER_01: And then a guy who again, I'm sorry, I don't know his name, but he was the first ever amputee to complete um UTMB and absolutely smashed it.
50:43
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, huge respect to that team.
50:45
SPEAKER_01: But that's a very whistle stop tour of UTMB week.
50:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I saw something with the the female CCC.
50:54
SPEAKER_00: Like, you did you see that Tony and uh Miao Yao were were caught up at a uh a train crossing?
51:02
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I think I I don't think that's being talked enough about, to be honest, because they got held back by quite a lot.
51:10
SPEAKER_00: And from some someone who knows about like your flow being broken, like if you're you can be in really high spirits, you can stop at a van or a crew or what wherever you're being stopped, and your flow can change, right?
51:24
SPEAKER_00: So I do think that that had an influence on the race result for sure.
51:29
SPEAKER_00: And the thing was, like, Tony seemed so happy when she when she crossed the line, which I was like, I was happy for her uh about, but I was also kind of surprised that like I do think that that was a contributor to the race results for sure.
51:44
SPEAKER_00: Imagine being in third place, right?
51:48
SPEAKER_00: First and second are just gone.
51:50
SPEAKER_00: Like they you you don't see them, you don't know where they are.
51:52
SPEAKER_00: People have told you they're really far, and then all of a sudden you see them both, like just around the corner.
51:58
SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine how much that fires you up?
52:01
SPEAKER_00: So I definitely think that's a contributor to the success of um first place.
52:07
SPEAKER_00: And the other thing that I thought was interesting is that the trail world seems to be obsessed with showing Ben's uh like fastest course record uh result or whatever.
52:19
SPEAKER_00: And I'm hyped for Ben, by the way.
52:21
SPEAKER_00: But I do think that the way that we're sort of showing how we he kind of knocked an hour off the course record is it's not correct because it is like the the course was changed.
52:34
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't the actual course, uh the the the traditional course, you know, has changed.
52:39
SPEAKER_00: So I do find it interesting that so many trail outlets have been like, new course record, it's been broken, oh my god, and and we're not really acknowledging the fact that like the course was changed quite a lot, actually.
52:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, especially on the triant side.
52:53
SPEAKER_01: And it's even last year's course was completely different to the years before.
52:57
SPEAKER_01: Like, if you look at the evolution of the course, it is completely different.
53:00
SPEAKER_01: And I so agree.
53:01
SPEAKER_01: When I was watching the live stream at the time, and I think Tony McCann was two minutes and 45 seconds above Meow Meow.
53:10
SPEAKER_01: So she had to stand there for two minutes and 45 seconds, knowing which is big.
53:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a long time, and as much as you've got to stand there and be like it is what it is, it is gonna mentally bother you.
53:21
SPEAKER_01: And like I'd be fuming, and like they put in stronger rules because the same happened in OCC last year, and the women ran under the barrier, and obviously that's not safe.
53:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so um it was also crazy because the train didn't come for ages, like she was just stood there and the train didn't come, and then technically Miao Yao had to stand there, I think, for a minute.
53:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, both of them stood there.
53:43
SPEAKER_01: So technically, Yingerville would have the biggest benefit because she managed to get four minutes back by just them being stood there.
53:51
SPEAKER_01: But you might as well have just said race go again, that might as well have been the start line, like they kind of all neck and neck again.
53:58
SPEAKER_01: So no, I agree, and I'm I'm also surprised not more has been said about that because yeah, that is a big factor.
54:05
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you can't just stop the trains for a day, but I kind of think can't you put some kind of structure so they can go round it or like yeah, I don't know, could you put the trains on hold for two hours?
54:15
SPEAKER_01: Like I I was discussing, like, can they not just stop the watches and then like be like okay, meow meow, you're gonna have to stand here for 50 seconds, but then you can't make the whole field do that.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so like there's no how far do you do that back, you know?
54:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
54:28
SPEAKER_01: It's also gonna be interesting how UCMB looks next year because I think there's been a lot of talk.
54:33
SPEAKER_01: There's a new mayor who he's a trail runner himself, he's done UCMB.
54:36
SPEAKER_01: He just I think he wants Chamony not to be so commercial, which is a fair argument.
54:42
SPEAKER_01: But I want to throw out there, I'm not saying this is the right answer because I've never taken part in the finals.
54:47
SPEAKER_01: But what about if the finals actually moved every year?
54:50
SPEAKER_01: So UCMB is in like Ultra Trail Mont de Blanc, would just become a normal race and the finals moved because it's also that some of these winners have done this course like five or six times.
55:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, is it now winning it is winning it down to fitness, or is it winning it because you've done this course so many times?
55:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, not the shortcuts as in like actually cutting the trails, but you know when's the time to power on.
55:14
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, the race changes from weather conditions, who's there, whether people want to run as a pack or they want to lead.
55:21
SPEAKER_01: But I just think how interesting would it be if every single year the place that the finals changed, almost like the Olympics kind of thing.
55:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all the Iron Man championship.
55:31
SPEAKER_01: It would be down to who's fastest on the day.
55:33
SPEAKER_01: But then you'd say some people are better technical training, some people are best of fast-flowing things.
55:37
SPEAKER_01: Like, I can't exactly imagine the finals being in Wales.
55:40
SPEAKER_00: Um I think it'd be interesting.
55:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a good I think it's a good solution.
55:47
SPEAKER_01: And then also, no town would be fuming that there's a hundred thousand people all coming to watch because you know it moves every year, so people would just get annoyed for one year and then be like, oh, it's alright, we don't have to deal for it for another 20 years.
55:59
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, exactly, yeah.
56:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:01
SPEAKER_01: Well, anyway, Jake, what is your piece of trail news?
56:04
SPEAKER_00: Um I I I just gonna have to plug um my mate, uh Sophie Woods, who got the my record for the Via Alpina crossing.
56:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she was obviously like so prominent in um the news, and like what she did was absolutely amazing.
56:23
SPEAKER_00: And you know, like I think going after a project that size, and in the way that she did it, you know, it was like very little sleep um and very high mileage, and to kind of like get to the end in the ways that she did.
56:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean, she was absolutely broken by the time she got to the end, and and looked like she needed to take some time off everything.
56:45
SPEAKER_00: By the she basically was like, I need some days off socials also because I just need to like get my head back in the game.
56:52
SPEAKER_00: And I've been there, man.
56:53
SPEAKER_00: I I know what it feels like, uh, but she's so good, and and and I think people like her show other people that things are possible, and that's why I'm in it, and I think that's what she's kind of realized.
57:07
SPEAKER_00: I mean, she was a very decorated runner before this, even she did a lot of these kind of crazy adventure races um that nobody knew about, you know, and then she did this uh via Alpina, and then all of a sudden it's like she's like the spokesperson of you can, you know, and I and I and I love that.
57:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I really, really love that.
57:24
SPEAKER_00: So she she got my record by I did it in 35 days because I was just trying to hit 60 every day, and she did it in like 28 days or 29 days or something.
57:35
SPEAKER_00: So it was a massive, massive chop.
57:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, unfortunately for her, or at least like a bit of like at least she could have just waited on the record for a few more days.
57:47
SPEAKER_00: But 10 days later, uh a Ukrainian uh athlete went and broke the outright record by a further five days.
57:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and not many people have actually heard about this, um, but that's an unspoken one.
57:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, the mail record like is gone now, especially for me.
58:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and he got it down to like 25 days.
58:08
SPEAKER_00: So he averaged like 85k every day for the whole VLP now, which is crazy.
58:15
SPEAKER_01: That was actually my next question because I saw on Sophie's story her saying like good luck when he set out that he was gonna do this, and then I couldn't remember what the name was, and I haven't been able to find it anywhere, so I didn't know whether he D like DNF'd or what happened.
58:30
SPEAKER_00: He did not only did he not DNF, he finished it in record time, and when he finished in um in uh Trieste, he then ran to Ukraine.
58:42
SPEAKER_01: What?
58:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
58:44
SPEAKER_00: So he didn't stop when he got there, he literally smashed the record to bits, then finished, and then continued on his uh on his way home back to Ukraine.
58:54
SPEAKER_00: So he's running there.
58:55
SPEAKER_00: He's he's raising funds for Ukraine and he's doing a great like mission and work for that.
59:00
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, low-key, like incredible athlete.
59:04
SPEAKER_01: That is crazy.
59:06
SPEAKER_01: And like, why is it not why is why does everyone not know this?
59:10
SPEAKER_00: Like honestly, the socials and online is it's it it just is a it's a piece of magic for some and it's terrible for others, you know what I mean?
59:20
SPEAKER_00: So it's some stories pick up, and even the best stories can not be seen, and some of the ones that you kind of like, why did that one get so much uh popularity?
59:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, it's a bit of a mystery.
59:32
SPEAKER_00: But I I don't think that those things should stop people.
59:35
SPEAKER_00: And I love the fact that not only did he smash it, but he just kept running, and I and I think that that's I think that's hilarious.
59:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's just like, yes, just broke it.
59:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm going on.
59:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, imagine if that was the finish line, like how fast could he have done it if he wasn't thinking I've got to run back to Ukraine as well.
59:52
SPEAKER_00: Fair, yeah, fair.
59:53
SPEAKER_01: Like that, that's actually crazy.
59:56
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, thank you so so much for coming on, Jake.
59:58
SPEAKER_01: I've absolutely loved this conversation and I'm very excited to see what's to come next.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, thank you guys for listening, and we'll be back soon.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_00: Nice, thanks so much.