Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 'THIS ISN'T RIGHT': FAMILY OF JOCELYN , 12, ERUPTS; TX GIRL LURED, STRIPPED, STRANGLED

Transcript

'THIS ISN'T RIGHT': FAMILY OF JOCELYN , 12, ERUPTS; TX GIRL LURED, STRIPPED, STRANGLED · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This isn't right.
0:09
Speaker 2: The family a little Joscelyn, just twelve years old, erupts
0:13
Speaker 2: in open court when they are sitting there hearing the
0:18
Speaker 2: facts laid out in court that this little Texas girl there, Joscelyn,
0:23
Speaker 2: is lured under a bridge, stripped bound with her hands
0:28
Speaker 2: behind her back, sex assaulted and strangled.
0:34
Speaker 1: I guess they did.
0:36
Speaker 2: Erupt this, as the prosecutor says, I don't know if
0:40
Speaker 2: we can seek the death penalty. You can. Good evening,
0:44
Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
0:47
Speaker 3: Thank you for being with us. Slain twelve year old girl,
0:51
Speaker 3: Joscelyn Nungery's family lashing out in court as the two
0:56
Speaker 3: men accused of killing their daughter are arraigned. I hope
1:00
Speaker 3: they kill your children.
1:02
Speaker 2: I can't imagine the pain, the anger, the hurt that
1:06
Speaker 2: this family is feeling as we learn the defendants may
1:11
Speaker 2: not even be exposed to the death penalty. There's not
1:15
Speaker 2: a chance of the death penalty. What is the family
1:18
Speaker 2: supposed to think? They erupt in open court as they
1:23
Speaker 2: find out the horrific details surrounding the death of their girl,
1:28
Speaker 2: twelve year old Joscelyn.
1:30
Speaker 4: Listen this victim was found you, bound and without clothing
1:37
Speaker 4: from the waist down in the water, and we.
1:42
Speaker 1: Just think that there's a good possibility. We hope that
1:46
Speaker 1: there's evidence that remains to be tested.
1:49
Speaker 5: I'm still fighting for her, and I just remember that
1:52
Speaker 5: she was a very special little girl that deserves her justice.
2:00
Speaker 6: I know.
2:02
Speaker 5: She's going to make a difference in this world for
2:05
Speaker 5: all children. And now it's my job to make sure
2:09
Speaker 5: it continues to happen.
2:10
Speaker 2: Why is it on the mom Why is it her
2:13
Speaker 2: job to make sure that there is justice? And I
2:16
Speaker 2: got to go to this panel with me an all
2:18
Speaker 2: star panel. But first to Corey eat Peel, investigative reporter
2:22
Speaker 2: KPRC two in Houston.
2:26
Speaker 1: Corey, did I just hear.
2:27
Speaker 2: The prosecutor, whom I've always respected up until a few
2:31
Speaker 2: moments ago, state she was found pause unclothed, pause, unclothed,
2:38
Speaker 2: talk about putting perfume on the pig, airbrushing, whitewashing, unclothed.
2:46
Speaker 2: I could be in a changing room in Nordstroms and
2:51
Speaker 2: be unclothed.
2:53
Speaker 1: This girl had twelve twelve, had her hands bound.
2:58
Speaker 2: Behind her, She was forced under a bridge by two guys.
3:04
Speaker 2: She doesn't know adults, and she was stripped. She was
3:10
Speaker 2: stripped from the waist down. Her pants were off. I
3:15
Speaker 2: mean to hear aug say it unclothed.
3:19
Speaker 1: What.
3:19
Speaker 7: Yeah, these details were absolutely heartbreaking hearing in court. And
3:24
Speaker 7: you know, at this point they were still kind of
3:26
Speaker 7: skirting around the information on if she was sexually assaulted
3:30
Speaker 7: or not. They're saying that they're still waiting on test
3:33
Speaker 7: results to come back to prove that she was in
3:36
Speaker 7: fact sexually assaulted. But those details absolutely heartbreaking to hear
3:42
Speaker 7: in court, especially for Johnson's family, and as you can imagine,
3:47
Speaker 7: emotions were high.
3:48
Speaker 1: Yesterday.
3:49
Speaker 7: We heard a family member scream out at one of
3:52
Speaker 7: the suspects, calling him a murderer and killer, as they
3:56
Speaker 7: were just in disbelief over this tragic, in her rific
4:00
Speaker 7: crime could happen to their little girl.
4:02
Speaker 2: You're hearing Corey Peel invescadity reporter KPRC two in Houston.
4:07
Speaker 2: I'm going to go to Andy Kahn, a longtime friend
4:10
Speaker 2: and colleague, director of Victim Services crime Stoppers in Houston.
4:16
Speaker 1: What in the world is going on?
4:18
Speaker 2: Hey, New York, let me see the graphic of how
4:23
Speaker 2: you can get the death penalty in Texas. Because I'm
4:26
Speaker 2: pretty sure if you commit an intentional murder, which strangulation
4:30
Speaker 2: death is. This is a manual strangulation by hands while
4:35
Speaker 2: and then they name a host of felonies, including kidnapping kidnapping.
4:41
Speaker 1: Kidnapping does not mean.
4:43
Speaker 2: I bundle you in a trunk and I drive you
4:45
Speaker 2: one hundred miles and hold you hostage. Kidnapping can mean
4:49
Speaker 2: taking you one foot or one inch is called under
4:53
Speaker 2: the law asportation. If that child is moved even one
4:59
Speaker 2: inch under the law against her will, that is a
5:04
Speaker 2: kidnap and therefore qualifies for a death penalty. Andy John,
5:11
Speaker 2: what is going on in your hometown.
5:15
Speaker 8: You have a lot of convoluted laws that were passed
5:18
Speaker 8: years ago involving capital murder of anyone who murders a child.
5:23
Speaker 8: And in twenty nineteen they passed a law. Our legislators
5:28
Speaker 8: passed a law removing the death penalty provision from anyone
5:33
Speaker 8: who murdered a child from the ages of eleven to
5:36
Speaker 8: fifteen unless it was done in conjunction of another offense.
5:41
Speaker 8: I don't think there's any ifens or butts about it.
5:44
Speaker 8: She was taken against her will, more than likely sexually assaulted.
5:49
Speaker 8: But let's keep in mind. This is early. I would
5:53
Speaker 8: it's going to happen.
5:54
Speaker 2: Andy, I know that your politicians and the Texas ledgislature
6:01
Speaker 2: had gutted the rules for aggravating circumstances for the death
6:04
Speaker 2: penalty and many other jurisdictions. When a child under fourteen
6:09
Speaker 2: fourteen and under is murdered, that automatically qualifies for a
6:14
Speaker 2: jury to look at the death penalty. Whether they give
6:17
Speaker 2: it or not, that's on the jury. But forget about
6:21
Speaker 2: the age requirement. Your legislature, your Texas legislature change the
6:27
Speaker 2: rule when now the child has to be under ten
6:31
Speaker 2: for it to automatically apply. That doesn't fit in this
6:35
Speaker 2: scenario because Jocelyn is twelve.
6:38
Speaker 1: However, listen to me.
6:41
Speaker 2: There is another condition under your law that your legislature
6:47
Speaker 2: has managed not to gut yet. That says if the
6:50
Speaker 2: death occurs the murder occurs during a kidnap, that qualifies
6:55
Speaker 2: for the death penalty.
6:56
Speaker 1: So what's the problem. I don't get it.
6:58
Speaker 8: I don't get it either, And my best guess is
7:02
Speaker 8: this is a slow moving scenario. They want to get
7:06
Speaker 8: first things done first, and then eventually they'll look at
7:09
Speaker 8: adding the death penalty. You know there's a reason we
7:11
Speaker 8: have the death penalty in the state of Texas. We're
7:15
Speaker 8: known as the death penalty capital of the world. And
7:18
Speaker 8: if these two defendants don't fit the criteria for the
7:20
Speaker 8: death penalty, you might as well just gut it all
7:23
Speaker 8: the way around.
7:24
Speaker 2: Guys, we are hearing that the death penalty is not
7:28
Speaker 2: being sought. And I'm not advocating pro or con right now.
7:33
Speaker 2: I am saying that if this case does not qualify
7:37
Speaker 2: for the death penalty to be at least presented to
7:40
Speaker 2: a jury, who will they make the decision?
7:43
Speaker 1: Not the prosecutor.
7:44
Speaker 2: But it's not going to even be given as an
7:46
Speaker 2: alternative to this jury because neither defendant has confessed to
7:54
Speaker 2: raping the girl. What what I've got to wait for
7:57
Speaker 2: them to confess. If I had to wait for every defendant,
8:02
Speaker 2: every killer, every rapist, every timlester to confess before they
8:08
Speaker 2: get sentis that's never gonna happen. The Fulton County jail
8:12
Speaker 2: would still be full of the thousands of people I
8:15
Speaker 2: prosecuted because nobody is gonna confess. But this is what
8:20
Speaker 2: they did say. You tell me what you think happened.
8:23
Speaker 9: Listen, Johann Jose, Ronyal Martinez and Franklin Jose Panoramos are
8:27
Speaker 9: both charged with capital and murder. Pain Your Ramos tells
8:30
Speaker 9: police he tried to convince Ronio Martinez to stop the
8:33
Speaker 9: attack on Joscelyn, but he refused, telling pag Ramos he
8:36
Speaker 9: had to finish what he started. Nungary's hands are tied
8:39
Speaker 9: behind her back, her feet are bound. Ronyo Martinez climbs
8:42
Speaker 9: on top of Joscelyn, covers her mouth, and strangles her
8:45
Speaker 9: to death. Roanyo Martinez admits to tying Joscelyn up and
8:48
Speaker 9: tossing your body in the bayou, but claims he didn't
8:51
Speaker 9: kill her. Paina Ramos claims he only kissed the twelve
8:54
Speaker 9: year old and denies any wrongdoing.
8:56
Speaker 2: Dodger Bethany Marshall. You know I'm a tea titler, but
8:59
Speaker 2: this is to the bottle. Dr Bethany Marshall with me
9:04
Speaker 2: whre now it's Psycho Alas joining us out of Beverly
9:06
Speaker 2: Hills at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Doctor Bethany, I've had
9:11
Speaker 2: so many defendants and co defendants who will tell you
9:16
Speaker 2: the story about what happened their version, but they leave
9:21
Speaker 2: out the critical moment. For instance, doctor. Bethany and I
9:26
Speaker 2: were robbing a bank, and I said, don't kill anybody.
9:30
Speaker 2: Bethany and she went in and we both had guns,
9:34
Speaker 2: and I turned my head for just a moment and
9:37
Speaker 2: I heard a gunshot, but I didn't see anything. And
9:40
Speaker 2: when I turned back around, two bank tellers we're dead
9:43
Speaker 2: and bleeding out in the floor. That one critical moment
9:48
Speaker 2: somehow gets fuzzy, and here we see both defendants, one
9:53
Speaker 2: claiming he quote only kissed twelve year old Jocelyn while
9:59
Speaker 2: her hands were tied behind her back and her pants
10:01
Speaker 2: and underwear were stripped off her body, just before one
10:05
Speaker 2: of them crawled on top of the girl and strangled her, saying, quote,
10:11
Speaker 2: he had to finish what he started, and all the
10:15
Speaker 2: other one did was kiss her. Who and the h
10:18
Speaker 2: eighth double l kisses a twelve year old little girl
10:23
Speaker 2: tied up under a bridge with their pants.
10:26
Speaker 1: And underwear stripped off, he's kissing her.
10:29
Speaker 10: There's so many things wrong with this narrative, and also
10:32
Speaker 10: so many tell tell signs that they are lying. First
10:37
Speaker 10: of all, minimizing by saying I kissed her. Criminals always minimize,
10:42
Speaker 10: and as you pointed out, being so vague about the
10:44
Speaker 10: details sometimes they throw in too many details, but most
10:48
Speaker 10: likely in this case, they're leaving out a lot of
10:50
Speaker 10: horrific details that are going to come out as this
10:54
Speaker 10: court case continues, and also minimizing the fact that she
10:57
Speaker 10: is a twelve year old little girl. And also the
11:00
Speaker 10: language is so inaccurate. Nancy, let's take out rape, assault,
11:06
Speaker 10: and kidnap and let's put torture at the top of the.
11:10
Speaker 1: List crime stories.
11:19
Speaker 2: With Nancy Grace, let me go to another friend and
11:26
Speaker 2: longtime colleague, doctor Kendall Crown's chief medical Examiner.
11:31
Speaker 1: That's not easy.
11:32
Speaker 2: You fight your way to get in medical school, you
11:34
Speaker 2: fight your way through medical school, you do a residency.
11:38
Speaker 1: It's dog eat dog.
11:39
Speaker 2: Everybody wants your spot, and he somehow climbs his way
11:43
Speaker 2: to the top to become the chief medical Examiner in
11:46
Speaker 2: Arrant County. That's Fort Worth, that's this neck of the woods.
11:49
Speaker 2: Also lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU,
11:54
Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crowns, I've prosecuted literally thousands of cases, thousands,
12:01
Speaker 2: all felonies. When you are prosecuting and you didn't experience this,
12:07
Speaker 2: you have to be a machine. You cannot think about
12:13
Speaker 2: the details of the case, or I would crack if
12:17
Speaker 2: I had to think about it. But as I'm listening
12:20
Speaker 2: to doctor Bethany talk, I'm wondering, if you go through this,
12:23
Speaker 2: as you perform autopsies on little girls, little children, to
12:27
Speaker 2: think about what this girl twelve years old, You know,
12:33
Speaker 2: my girl, she's about that big, beautiful just like this
12:37
Speaker 2: little girl to be dragged under a bridge in the
12:43
Speaker 2: middle of the night, don't you know? She was crying
12:47
Speaker 2: and begging for them to stop what they were doing,
12:51
Speaker 2: to yank her pants and underwear off, to tie her,
12:56
Speaker 2: bind her with her hands behind her back, and one
13:01
Speaker 2: of them claims I only kissed her. What and with
13:06
Speaker 2: the marks on her back, this girl was raped. This
13:13
Speaker 2: girl was tortured. The last thing she saw was the
13:19
Speaker 2: dark of the night under a bridge where these two guys,
13:24
Speaker 2: she's adult, males she had never met before, assaulting her.
13:31
Speaker 2: Then probably the inability to breathe as one of them
13:35
Speaker 2: crawled on top of her.
13:38
Speaker 1: And manually strangled the life.
13:41
Speaker 2: Out of her, then leaving her semi naked, throw her
13:49
Speaker 2: into the water, and video Kim catches them. Doctor Kendall
13:55
Speaker 2: Crowns just walking away. Why nothing had happened? When you
14:02
Speaker 2: perform an autopsy. Do you let yourself even think about
14:08
Speaker 2: these things? Or do you just become a robot and
14:12
Speaker 2: do it?
14:13
Speaker 11: So you can't get emotionally charged when doing your work,
14:17
Speaker 11: because that's going to cause you to miss things. So
14:19
Speaker 11: you go through the story the information you have at
14:22
Speaker 11: the time before the autopsy begins, and then you process
14:27
Speaker 11: the case and go through it and you don't get
14:30
Speaker 11: emotionally wrapped up in all the particulars of how horrific
14:34
Speaker 11: the incident that resulted in this individual's death is, because
14:38
Speaker 11: if you do, you can't do this job.
14:40
Speaker 3: Lord under a bridge, a stripped naked to the waste
14:43
Speaker 3: bound and then assaulted for two hours. New court documents
14:48
Speaker 3: detail horrific allegations.
14:50
Speaker 2: Not only do we learn what happened under that bridge
14:54
Speaker 2: to little Joscelyn, we learn what happened afterward.
14:59
Speaker 9: Listen to After Johnslen Nunger's body has found, Police say
15:03
Speaker 9: Ramos cut off an ankle monitor he was fitted with
15:05
Speaker 9: when he crossed the border illegally at El Paso on
15:07
Speaker 9: May twenty eighth. The discarded ankle monitor was found days ago. Ramos,
15:12
Speaker 9: working in construction, asks his boss for extra cash so
15:15
Speaker 9: he can skip down, but instead of getting cash, the
15:17
Speaker 9: boss calls the police and Ramos is arrested straight out.
15:20
Speaker 2: To Cora Lee Peel, investigative reporter or kp RC two Houston,
15:26
Speaker 2: I hope what Ogg is saying. I'm just interpreting here
15:32
Speaker 2: is that when the rape kit comes back and I'm
15:34
Speaker 2: going to go to you, doctor Kendle Crowns about how
15:37
Speaker 2: a rape kit is performed and really how long it takes.
15:40
Speaker 2: It doesn't take this long to get a DNA sample.
15:45
Speaker 2: It doesn't, So I'm not sure what they're waiting on.
15:49
Speaker 2: Because if there's DNA from one of the defendants to
15:52
Speaker 2: show that she was raped because I'd spurned from one defendant,
15:56
Speaker 2: they're both going to be charged with rape because while
15:59
Speaker 2: one was raping her, the other one was standing by
16:02
Speaker 2: what laughing holding her down?
16:04
Speaker 1: Oh hgl n Oh.
16:07
Speaker 2: They're both going to be charged with that and both
16:11
Speaker 2: be death penalty qualified. Corley Peel again, investigative news reporter
16:16
Speaker 2: kp RC two Houston, where this happened. Let me understand
16:21
Speaker 2: how these two were caught. I understand we've got surveillance
16:24
Speaker 2: video and the police did an incredible job of putting
16:28
Speaker 2: together a montage of the let's see the seven eleven
16:32
Speaker 2: the seven eleven video surveillance video. You can see as
16:38
Speaker 2: the surveillance video goes on, you see her walking. The
16:42
Speaker 2: little boyfriend she's calling on her cell phone reports hearing
16:44
Speaker 2: two adults in the back. Look at that little thing.
16:47
Speaker 2: She can't weigh over ninety pounds. If that these two
16:51
Speaker 2: there are the animals. There they are, And I normally
16:57
Speaker 2: don't use that phrase, but what they did to this
16:59
Speaker 2: little girl is like an animal out in the jungle
17:03
Speaker 2: and they approach her. They approach her, apparently asking for directions.
17:10
Speaker 1: She walks along.
17:12
Speaker 2: With them because they apparently lived near each other, did
17:15
Speaker 2: not know each other. They're walking along and the next
17:20
Speaker 2: thing you know, she's under a bridge bound being raped.
17:26
Speaker 1: So Corale Peel, how did they get caught?
17:29
Speaker 2: The incredible surveillance montage that reveals everything I just told you.
17:34
Speaker 2: You see them taking her under a bridge and then
17:37
Speaker 2: walking away like okay, that's done. But then in addition
17:41
Speaker 2: to the montage, witnesses emerge.
17:44
Speaker 1: That's right.
17:44
Speaker 7: I mean, those photos were essential in this case. As
17:49
Speaker 7: soon as the men saw their photos being plastered across
17:54
Speaker 7: the country, all over social media and all the news,
17:57
Speaker 7: they got scared, so the men Martinez there, he actually
18:02
Speaker 7: shaved his beard and he apparently prosecutors found on his
18:09
Speaker 7: phone that he was trying to research ways on how
18:13
Speaker 7: to lead the country, how to get out. But it's
18:15
Speaker 7: really interesting because Franklin Pinya, he actually called his boss
18:20
Speaker 7: asking for help, asking to gather some money together so
18:22
Speaker 7: he could get away. He told his boss that someone
18:25
Speaker 7: was killed, he was in an issue that he needed
18:28
Speaker 7: to get out of.
18:29
Speaker 10: The boss thought that was very suspicious.
18:32
Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, Corley Peel again. You got me drinking
18:37
Speaker 2: from the fire hydrant. You know so many facts, and
18:41
Speaker 2: I'm trying to ride as quickly as i can. Could
18:43
Speaker 2: you back it up just a little bit and I'll
18:45
Speaker 2: catch up. I wish I knew shorthand I don't. Okay,
18:49
Speaker 2: go yeah.
18:49
Speaker 7: So basically, long story short, he calls nine one one,
18:54
Speaker 7: the boss that the construction company calls police, and that's
18:58
Speaker 7: how police were ultimately able to track down both men
19:02
Speaker 7: at their apartment complex and take them into custody. And
19:05
Speaker 7: I talked to prosecutors at that press conference and I said,
19:09
Speaker 7: you know, was this boss the reason why they were captured?
19:12
Speaker 7: And they said, that is one of the reasons why,
19:15
Speaker 7: just because they have received hundreds of tips over that
19:18
Speaker 7: course of that week while.
19:19
Speaker 10: They were on the run.
19:20
Speaker 7: But again they got scared after these photos were released
19:24
Speaker 7: and people were looking for them.
19:26
Speaker 2: And now Coraline Peel from KPRC two is telling us
19:30
Speaker 2: more that when these photos began to populate on TV,
19:37
Speaker 2: people were seeing them. Their friends who knew them saw
19:43
Speaker 2: the TV and they asked the boss. These two defendants
19:49
Speaker 2: asked their boss. One of them asked for an advance
19:53
Speaker 2: in money, said somebody had died and they needed.
19:58
Speaker 1: To get out of the jurisdiction.
20:00
Speaker 2: You know, when I see a broadcast on TV or
20:05
Speaker 2: somebody calls me and gives me a tip about a murder,
20:08
Speaker 2: I don't try to leave the country.
20:10
Speaker 1: They did, what about it?
20:12
Speaker 12: Those were indicative of guilt, Nancy. These guys knew what
20:16
Speaker 12: they were in trouble. They knew people were going to
20:19
Speaker 12: see the advertisement, the warnings on TV, and they knew
20:23
Speaker 12: that they had to leave the country or leave the
20:25
Speaker 12: state as soon as possible. They're criminals, They're animals.
20:28
Speaker 1: That's what they do.
20:29
Speaker 12: They run and they fleet.
20:31
Speaker 3: Joslyn nunger Ay fought back. Prosecutors say, leaving scratches and
20:36
Speaker 3: byte marks on one of her attackers, still visible at
20:39
Speaker 3: the time of his arrest.
20:41
Speaker 1: Bite marks. Let's talk about bite marks.
20:47
Speaker 2: Joining me, Corley Peel, investigative reporter KPRC two Houston. Corley,
20:54
Speaker 2: I want to talk about the injuries to not only
20:57
Speaker 2: the two defendants. Do you know when we first started talking,
21:01
Speaker 2: almost got sick to my stomach as you were describing everything,
21:05
Speaker 2: because when I was talking to doctor Kendall Crowns about
21:08
Speaker 2: letting your mind go to where this was that night
21:13
Speaker 2: and what the little girl lived through, what Jocelyn lived
21:17
Speaker 2: through just before her death while her mom is snoozing away,
21:21
Speaker 2: no idea that anything's happening to her baby. But I
21:26
Speaker 2: now want to talk about the evidence and get my
21:28
Speaker 2: mind back in the middle of the.
21:29
Speaker 1: Road and out of the weeds.
21:31
Speaker 2: Tell me about the injuries on her and the two defendants.
21:36
Speaker 7: Yeah, heartbreaking information that we received in court this week.
21:40
Speaker 7: Apparently from what we heard from prosecutors that Jostin was
21:44
Speaker 7: found with cuts on her body and scratches as well
21:48
Speaker 7: as she was found bound and tied underneath that bridge.
21:54
Speaker 7: And we also learned that Martinez Renjell he was also
21:58
Speaker 7: found with bite marks, and scratches on him so when
22:02
Speaker 7: he was arrested. So very heart wrenching information to hear
22:06
Speaker 7: from prosecutors as they release that evidence, and especially hard
22:11
Speaker 7: for her family to hear because she's only twelve years old.
22:14
Speaker 7: No family should have to hear that a little girl
22:17
Speaker 7: had to endure that type of horrific murder. I don't
22:20
Speaker 7: want us to gloss over the truth. And here's the truth.
22:24
Speaker 2: Two illegal Venezuelan migrants are now accused. I'm murdering our
22:28
Speaker 2: twelve year old little Houston girl, Andy Kahn. Listen up,
22:31
Speaker 2: you're next under a bridge. According to prosecutors, they strip
22:36
Speaker 2: her naked, that's from the waist down, assaulted her for
22:42
Speaker 2: two hours.
22:45
Speaker 1: Two hours.
22:46
Speaker 2: This twelve year old girl was assaulted, assaulted, what does
22:50
Speaker 2: that mean?
22:51
Speaker 1: Raped? That's what that means.
22:52
Speaker 2: And one of them has the audacity to tell me
22:55
Speaker 2: I just kissed her. You kiss a twelve year old
22:58
Speaker 2: little girl, tied up her bridge half naked, soulded her
23:03
Speaker 2: for two hours, allegedly binding her not only by her
23:08
Speaker 2: hands behind her back during the rape, her feet were
23:14
Speaker 2: also bound, as doctor Bethny Marshall accurately pointed out, and
23:19
Speaker 2: her back was covered in cuts.
23:25
Speaker 1: What does that tell you, Andy Kahan? Her back was
23:30
Speaker 1: covered in cuts.
23:33
Speaker 8: Nancy, this is a real life Texas chainsaw massacre. What
23:38
Speaker 8: happened to Joscelyn? The only way I can describe what
23:41
Speaker 8: happened to her when you ask people, well, what happened exactly,
23:45
Speaker 8: is if you watch a National Geographic show and you
23:48
Speaker 8: see what lions do to Gazelle's and that's what these
23:51
Speaker 8: two lions dier through this poorest child right here. It
23:55
Speaker 8: is an absolute bloodbath. What happened to her. I've spoken
23:59
Speaker 8: with Joscelyn's family, I've met them, I've talked with them.
24:03
Speaker 8: I can't imagine the pain that they're going through. Yet,
24:06
Speaker 8: at the same time, we're also going to make Joscelyn
24:10
Speaker 8: Nungary a catalyst for change. I know there's a lot
24:14
Speaker 8: going on right now, whether they're going to be seeking.
24:16
Speaker 2: The death Nady con too soon, too soon to talk
24:21
Speaker 2: about how this is all somehow going to end up
24:24
Speaker 2: being good and her rape and murder is going to
24:28
Speaker 2: be a catalyst for change.
24:30
Speaker 1: You know, I don't normally say this to you, Indicaba,
24:33
Speaker 1: screw that.
24:34
Speaker 2: I don't want to hear how somehow we're going to
24:37
Speaker 2: turn this lemon into lemonade, catalyst for change. B ask
24:43
Speaker 2: con what are you saying? And I asked you what
24:47
Speaker 2: these injuries meant? And you skirted it. You did not
24:51
Speaker 2: answer the question. The question was what do.
24:55
Speaker 1: These injuries on her back mean? Do I have to
24:57
Speaker 1: spell it out for you.
24:59
Speaker 8: It means that she was tortured. She was tortured, she
25:03
Speaker 8: was raped, she was strangled, she was kidnapped, and by God,
25:08
Speaker 8: the death penalty is going to be sought in this case.
25:11
Speaker 8: That is no ifans or buts from my perspective.
25:14
Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall. You, as I have worked with so
25:18
Speaker 2: many children and adults that were raped or sodomized as children,
25:25
Speaker 2: and what the adults tell me is that the worst
25:29
Speaker 2: thing about it was the feeling of helplessness, powerlessness.
25:36
Speaker 1: How some of them.
25:38
Speaker 2: Actually, I didn't know about this phenomenon until an adult
25:42
Speaker 2: female victim of Chamala's station told me about it.
25:46
Speaker 1: That she would actually disembody and she.
25:50
Speaker 2: Could look down at her body as her father was
25:53
Speaker 2: raping her, and her mother sided with the father and
25:57
Speaker 2: pretenda she didn't know anything about it went on for years. Okay,
26:03
Speaker 2: you have to go with me down this dark tunnel,
26:08
Speaker 2: because I'm going to tell you what happened. This little girl,
26:12
Speaker 2: while bound with her hands behind her and stripped, was
26:20
Speaker 2: forced down on the ground and was raped for two hours.
26:25
Speaker 2: Then one of the finets climbed on top of her
26:28
Speaker 2: and manually strangled her. And then they throw her body
26:34
Speaker 2: likely face down into a by you. That's what happened
26:39
Speaker 2: to this girl. She should be practicing her cello, what
26:43
Speaker 2: instruments she was playing. She should be enjoying summer, jumping
26:48
Speaker 2: in the apartment complex pool, playing with her friends, going
26:52
Speaker 2: to get ice cream, talking to her little BF boyfriend
26:55
Speaker 2: off the phone. But that's what happened to her. That
27:00
Speaker 2: is what those injuries tell me. And there's no way
27:05
Speaker 2: around it. I don't care how much everybody on this
27:08
Speaker 2: panel wants to skirt away from it. That is what happened.
27:11
Speaker 2: She was raped in the dirt on the ground under
27:15
Speaker 2: a bridge by two adult males while her hands were
27:19
Speaker 2: tied behind her back.
27:21
Speaker 1: That's what happened, Nancy.
27:22
Speaker 10: If I could add to that, there was a moment
27:25
Speaker 10: before all this happened, when these guys asked her for
27:27
Speaker 10: directions where she felt useful. She wanted to help them,
27:31
Speaker 10: and then for anyone who's listening, who's ever been in
27:34
Speaker 10: an accident, and all of a sudden, you know, things
27:37
Speaker 10: have turned. There was that dawning of realization when they
27:40
Speaker 10: take her under the bridge, that something really, really bad
27:44
Speaker 10: is going to happen. They bind her hands and her legs,
27:49
Speaker 10: and at that point she may not even know what
27:52
Speaker 10: is about to befall her, but on some levels she
27:54
Speaker 10: knows she's going to die. They take their pants off.
27:58
Speaker 10: We're talking about them taking her pants off. Let's think
28:01
Speaker 10: about two grown men taking their clothing off in front
28:06
Speaker 10: of a little girl. We don't even know she's ever
28:08
Speaker 10: seen the naked man before, and all those cuts along
28:11
Speaker 10: her back. They threw her on the ground. This was
28:14
Speaker 10: under a bridge. I picture. You know, empty aluminum cans, glass,
28:20
Speaker 10: you know all the debris we see under kid under bridges.
28:23
Speaker 10: They threw her on that debris. And as they were
28:27
Speaker 10: raping her and thrusting themselves into her again and again,
28:32
Speaker 10: her back was scraping along the ground. They didn't rape
28:36
Speaker 10: her once twice. These men raped her multiple times, each
28:41
Speaker 10: one looking on as the other one did it. That
28:44
Speaker 10: is animalistic behavior. Nancy, do think women would do that
28:48
Speaker 10: to a little boy? No, It's not just the rape,
28:51
Speaker 10: it's the cruelty. It's the total lack of regard for
28:54
Speaker 10: what was happening to her body and Nancy. These guys
28:57
Speaker 10: I think were drunk and substance abusing sons does not
29:01
Speaker 10: exonerate them, but it takes it a whole level worse
29:04
Speaker 10: where they are just treating her like a sack of
29:07
Speaker 10: potatoes and the control.
29:09
Speaker 1: Room is reminding me in my ear.
29:12
Speaker 2: These two illegal immigrants charged with the murder of a
29:15
Speaker 2: twelve year old oldle girl under the eyes of Lady
29:18
Speaker 2: Justice are innocent until proven guilty.
29:29
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace two suspects.
29:32
Speaker 3: One claims he only kissed Joscelyn and tried to stop
29:36
Speaker 3: the attack as his friend climbed on top of the
29:39
Speaker 3: little girl strangling her.
29:41
Speaker 2: Tried to stop the attack. How doesn't make any sense everything?
29:46
Speaker 2: Why am I trying to apply logic to an illogical situation?
29:50
Speaker 2: Why am I trying to make sense about what these
29:52
Speaker 2: two were saying? Because it's all lies, all lies. DNA
29:57
Speaker 2: doesn't lie, circumstantial evidence does lie. This little girl did
30:01
Speaker 2: not bind herself at the hands and feet, scratch her
30:06
Speaker 2: back up on the ground, take off her own pants
30:09
Speaker 2: and underwear and fling herself into the water. Okay, they
30:13
Speaker 2: did it. And anything they say is a lie. It's
30:17
Speaker 2: like the devil. Whatever he says, it's a lie. It
30:23
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. It's a lie. They're lying.
30:28
Speaker 1: Now we know in the.
30:29
Speaker 2: Last hours the family has been subjected to hearing the
30:33
Speaker 2: facts the way we've been talking about them.
30:38
Speaker 1: No mother wants to hear this. I don't even want
30:41
Speaker 1: to hear.
30:41
Speaker 2: It about another child, much less this mom hearing it
30:46
Speaker 2: about her own child. And there was an explosion in
30:51
Speaker 2: the courtroom, not the first time.
30:54
Speaker 1: Listen, oldest sister.
30:55
Speaker 2: Of Aaron Lindsey, Jim, whatever your name is, Satan, I'm mad.
31:00
Speaker 6: That's how you act when you are out of control.
31:03
Speaker 6: I don't want to ever see my mother have to
31:05
Speaker 6: go through this point again. Never, Jeffrey, I.
31:24
Speaker 1: Only wish she had gotten her hands around his neck.
31:26
Speaker 2: And of course we all know about our friend Mark Class.
31:31
Speaker 2: His daughter Polly was kidnapped during a little spend the
31:35
Speaker 2: night party at her place in the middle of the night.
31:38
Speaker 1: I don't even say the defendant's name out loud.
31:41
Speaker 2: He took Polly, he raped her, he assaulted her, and
31:45
Speaker 2: he murdered her and in court class, there's Polly Class
31:51
Speaker 2: lunges for the killer and tries to strangle him right there.
32:00
Speaker 2: In another case, a martial arts expert molested a little
32:03
Speaker 2: boy and when he was extradited back to Louisiana and
32:08
Speaker 2: he came off the plane, the dad shot him in
32:10
Speaker 2: the head.
32:11
Speaker 1: Later acquitted.
32:12
Speaker 2: But why are people suggesting that the family of Joscelyn
32:19
Speaker 2: misbehaved in the courtroom.
32:22
Speaker 1: They didn't misbehave.
32:23
Speaker 2: The two defendants misbehaved according to police, to any con
32:27
Speaker 2: director of victim services, they're in Houston.
32:31
Speaker 1: Do you blame them?
32:33
Speaker 8: No, absolutely not. I mean I've been in the courtrooms
32:36
Speaker 8: where families have gotten up and have yelled. I've been
32:39
Speaker 8: in a courtroom where a bailiff whispered to me and said,
32:42
Speaker 8: I'll left the father of the young girl that was murdered.
32:46
Speaker 8: If he goes over the rail, I'll give him a
32:48
Speaker 8: few minutes before I pull him off. No, nobody blames
32:51
Speaker 8: them for anything that happened. I don't blame them for
32:54
Speaker 8: unleashing as well. I would probably do the same. This
32:57
Speaker 8: is the worst possible scenario you can imagine. This family
33:01
Speaker 8: is undergoing right now. Joscelyn is everybody's daughter. She is
33:07
Speaker 8: everybody's sister, She is everybody's niece. This is not just
33:11
Speaker 8: a Houston issue, It's not just a Texas issue. She
33:14
Speaker 8: has become the national issue for what happens when you murder, rape,
33:18
Speaker 8: and strangle and kidnap a twelve year old little girl.
33:21
Speaker 2: You know Andy again, I consider your friend. We've worked
33:24
Speaker 2: together for many, many years. But does your mouth ever
33:27
Speaker 2: get tired of just saying the same thing?
33:29
Speaker 1: Blah Dad.
33:31
Speaker 2: She's supposed girl for filling the blank. She's a countless
33:36
Speaker 2: for change. She represents every girl. Really that one of
33:42
Speaker 2: these people keep coming into our country and committing.
33:45
Speaker 1: Murders, and not just them other perps.
33:49
Speaker 2: You see it over and over, repeat offenders praying on victims, younger,
33:56
Speaker 2: less cunning, less powerful than they are, walk free, and
34:01
Speaker 2: then they do it again. A catalyst for change. This
34:06
Speaker 2: is one in a string of many. Do I have
34:09
Speaker 2: to name them off? There's Lake and Riley, there's Molly Tibbis,
34:13
Speaker 2: there's Rachel mourn. He goes on and on for Pete's sake. Man,
34:19
Speaker 2: second verse, same as the first.
34:22
Speaker 8: That's why I'm here to do that, to make sure
34:25
Speaker 8: that what happened with her at least we can make
34:28
Speaker 8: the attempt that it doesn't happen to somebody else. That's
34:31
Speaker 8: the least we can do in her honor and in
34:34
Speaker 8: her memory. And that's what we're going to do.
34:37
Speaker 1: You know what, Andy Conn, You're right. I'm sorry.
34:39
Speaker 2: You just have to be the target of my anger
34:41
Speaker 2: and frustration about what happened to this girl. Doctor Kendall Crowns,
34:46
Speaker 2: how are we going to prove she was raped? How
34:49
Speaker 2: does it happen? And that medical examiner darnwell being dotting
34:55
Speaker 2: his eyes and crossing his t's as he or she
34:59
Speaker 2: performs rape kit.
35:01
Speaker 11: So proving a sexual assault, you can look for damage
35:05
Speaker 11: to the vagina, the anus. Usually it's tearing, contusions or bruises,
35:11
Speaker 11: abrasions or scratches from the forceful penetration. And then you
35:16
Speaker 11: can also do a sexual assault kit, also known as
35:19
Speaker 11: a rape kit, where you collect evidence pubic hairs from
35:24
Speaker 11: the individual, also any hairs that.
35:27
Speaker 8: Are on the body.
35:28
Speaker 11: You do DNA swabs of the body as well as
35:31
Speaker 11: DNA swabs of the vagina, anis, and mouth, and then
35:36
Speaker 11: those can be tested for DNA of the possible perpetrator.
35:40
Speaker 11: It can take several weeks for all that to come back.
35:44
Speaker 2: Though, Doctor Kittel crowns, You and I both know that
35:47
Speaker 2: it doesn't take several weeks to get DNA.
35:50
Speaker 1: Why are you saying that.
35:51
Speaker 11: Well, it does take several weeks for the testing to
35:53
Speaker 11: get done. You can't just expect it to happen overnight.
35:57
Speaker 2: There's not an immediate DNA test because I've had them
36:00
Speaker 2: done at the crime lab.
36:01
Speaker 11: I mean rapid DNA tests are using.
36:03
Speaker 1: Is a quick test result?
36:05
Speaker 11: Well, you can get quick test results, correct, but you
36:08
Speaker 11: can't necessarily pinpoint it to the specific individual without doing
36:12
Speaker 11: all the specific testing.
36:13
Speaker 2: Well, okay, then your Texas crime lab must work differently
36:17
Speaker 2: than the one that I use.
36:18
Speaker 1: Because we can get quick test results.
36:21
Speaker 2: I know they're not as reliable as they wants to
36:24
Speaker 2: take two weeks, but it's enough for death penalty, indictment,
36:29
Speaker 2: and one more thing very quickly. Doctor Kendall crowns about
36:32
Speaker 2: the bite marks in her condition. Tied up, hands and
36:36
Speaker 2: feet on her back, she managed to bite a defendant.
36:41
Speaker 2: Is there a chance we could get his DNA out
36:43
Speaker 2: of her mouth?
36:44
Speaker 8: Yes, that is a possibility.
36:46
Speaker 11: If she bit hard enough and pulled skin cells off,
36:49
Speaker 11: it's possible that they could get it from her mouth.
36:51
Speaker 1: To Corley p Old kp RC two. What is happening
36:55
Speaker 1: right now?
36:56
Speaker 7: Well, right now both men are in jail with ten
37:00
Speaker 7: million dollar bonds each. This investigation is ongoing. Prosecutors say
37:06
Speaker 7: that they're still waiting on test results to prove if
37:10
Speaker 7: Joson Ungerray was sexually assaulted. So we're still waiting to
37:14
Speaker 7: see if those charges will be upgraded or if they
37:17
Speaker 7: will face the death penalty because of right now, based
37:19
Speaker 7: on the legislature, they're not death penalty eligible, So still
37:25
Speaker 7: a lot more to uncover in this case for sure.
37:28
Speaker 2: Michael Levana is the bottom line. They're kicking back having
37:31
Speaker 2: three hots and a cot.
37:32
Speaker 12: The investigators are at the mercy of the legal system.
37:35
Speaker 12: They have to abide by what the district attorney guidance
37:40
Speaker 12: that they give them. They honestly do probably want a
37:43
Speaker 12: fist sexual assault, but they have to wait for the results.
37:46
Speaker 12: They're at the mercy of the crime left.
37:48
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, so I guess she had her pants pulled
37:51
Speaker 2: off and had scratches on her back and one admits
37:55
Speaker 2: that he was kissing her.
37:56
Speaker 1: I guess that's not enough for them yet, But I'm telling.
37:58
Speaker 2: You, well, you can say that and I've tried plenty
38:04
Speaker 2: of cases with circumstantial evidence and without DNA before the
38:09
Speaker 2: advent of DNA and all that was a blood type.
38:11
Speaker 1: Okay, so it can be done.
38:13
Speaker 12: It's going to be a circumstantial case because there the
38:15
Speaker 12: one wants to admit, they minimize their actions.
38:18
Speaker 1: Okay.
38:18
Speaker 2: To hear Michael Levanas tell it, I've got to wait
38:21
Speaker 2: on a confession, and that'll be a cold day in
38:23
Speaker 2: HL before these two confess.
38:26
Speaker 1: Andy con, what and I just am I the one upside.
38:30
Speaker 8: Down here before a Texas jury. I could probably step
38:34
Speaker 8: outside when they get the case, go to the restroom,
38:37
Speaker 8: come back, and they'll pronounce them guilty and sentence in
38:39
Speaker 8: the death. There is no way your jury is not
38:41
Speaker 8: going to sentence these two to death.
38:43
Speaker 2: If it is sought. And you know what else breaks
38:47
Speaker 2: my heart? Andy con that the mom God be with her.
38:53
Speaker 2: Keeps saying thank you everybody for all your support. I'm
38:57
Speaker 2: so grateful. She shouldn't even be in this position. And
39:00
Speaker 2: I heard Ogg's a pretty good prosecutor state that the
39:05
Speaker 2: prosecutors and law enforcement are under so much pressure because
39:11
Speaker 2: there is just a wave, wave after wave after wave
39:16
Speaker 2: of criminals from other countries coming into our country, and
39:21
Speaker 2: right there is.
39:22
Speaker 1: One of the hubs where they come in.
39:25
Speaker 2: So I've got to contend with not only our US,
39:28
Speaker 2: our American citizens performing depraved acts on children.
39:32
Speaker 1: Now I've got them coming over to do it.
39:34
Speaker 8: I see last year, last August, I worked with a
39:37
Speaker 8: family who was eleven year old girl was raped and
39:41
Speaker 8: murdered by an undocumented immigrant who is now facing the
39:45
Speaker 8: death penalty. That was last August. So I sadly I've
39:49
Speaker 8: worked with families that are facing this situation, and yeah,
39:52
Speaker 8: it's a broken system.
39:53
Speaker 2: All the help if you know or think you know
39:57
Speaker 2: anything about this case that can help the state build
40:01
Speaker 2: the case. Dial seven one three three zero eight thirty
40:06
Speaker 2: six hundred repeat seven one three three zero eight thirty
40:09
Speaker 2: six hundred. I want to thank all of our guests
40:13
Speaker 2: as our prayers go out to this little girl, Jocelyn
40:18
Speaker 2: and her family, her mother and her little brother.
40:24
Speaker 1: We wait as justice I'm false. Good bye friend,