Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / "Empire" Star Jussie Smollett Convicted For FAKING FELONY HATE CRIME: Conviction Overturned

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"Empire" Star Jussie Smollett Convicted For FAKING FELONY HATE CRIME: Conviction Overturned · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Jesse Smollett the race attack hoax. Sir, well,
0:14
Speaker 1: we thought his case was overright. The former Empire star
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Speaker 1: was convicted for orchestrating a race attack hoax, stirring up much,
0:28
Speaker 1: much anger and dissension and hurt feelings. Well, guess what
0:33
Speaker 1: in the last hours. I hope you're sitting down. You
0:35
Speaker 1: may need to lay down for this one. The Illinois
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Speaker 1: Supreme Court, in its wisdom, has reversed Jesse Smollett's conviction.
0:47
Speaker 1: That's right, his twenty twenty one conviction has been overturned.
0:54
Speaker 1: Why the Illinois Supreme Court says his second prosecutor after
1:01
Speaker 1: charges were initially dropped was the reason for the reversal.
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Speaker 1: The court said, today we resolve a question about the
1:15
Speaker 1: state's responsibility to honor agreements it makes with defendants. Specifically,
1:24
Speaker 1: we address whether a dismissal of a case by an
1:27
Speaker 1: all pross that's Latin for refusing to prosecute allows the
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Speaker 1: state to bring a second prosecution when the first dismissal
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Speaker 1: was part of an agreement with the defendant and the
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Speaker 1: defendant performs his part of the plea bargain. In other words,
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Speaker 1: the state oh this is such a bad decision by
1:52
Speaker 1: the state. The state offered Smilett a deal, and their
1:57
Speaker 1: part of the deal was they would all prosper drop
2:00
Speaker 1: his case. Well, after that deal was struck, Smollett got
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Speaker 1: new charges and was convicted of falsely reporting a hate
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Speaker 1: crime against him. Smolett claimed he was hated because he
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Speaker 1: is black and gay. Okay, it turns out he arranged
2:23
Speaker 1: the whole attack to try to get pr and to
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Speaker 1: pay raise. He was already bringing down tens of thousands
2:29
Speaker 1: of dollars per episode on Empire. Greedy, Greedy Liar. Uh.
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Speaker 1: He was found guilty of five of six disorderly conduct charges.
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Speaker 1: The grand jury had returned a six count indictment against
2:46
Speaker 1: him before that. He was sentenced to one hundred and
2:49
Speaker 1: fifty days in jail, thirty months of probation, ordered to
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Speaker 1: pay about one hundred and thirty thousand dollars in restitution.
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Speaker 1: All in, he served six days of the sentence. Uh, please,
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Speaker 1: now is reversed. Okay, what happened?
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Speaker 2: You know, it's two o'clock in the morning.
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Speaker 3: You're going to subway sub Speria is.
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Speaker 2: Open twenty four hours.
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Speaker 4: Like, people kill me when they say things like that,
3:14
Speaker 4: because It's like subway is open twenty four hours for
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Speaker 4: a reason, so that when you're hungry at night and
3:19
Speaker 4: you ain't got no food, you go to subway the
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Speaker 4: camera facing north. How is that my issue? It feels
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Speaker 4: like if I had said it was a Muslim or.
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Speaker 2: A Mexican.
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Speaker 4: Or someone black, I feel like the doubters would have
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Speaker 4: supported me a lot, much more, a lot more. And
3:41
Speaker 4: that says a lot about the place that we are
3:43
Speaker 4: in our country right now, the.
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Speaker 2: Fact that we have these fear mongols, these people that.
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Speaker 4: Are trying to separate us, and.
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Speaker 2: It's just not okay. It's just not okay.
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Speaker 4: And for all of the people, the next time that
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Speaker 4: you see someone report something, maybe well after the fact
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Speaker 4: that it happened, and you say to them, well, why
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Speaker 4: are you waiting until now? Just remember that mine was
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Speaker 4: reported right away and look what has happened.
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Speaker 1: You are hearing TV star Jesse Smollette talking to superstar
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Speaker 1: Robin Roberts on GMA at ABC talking about people who
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Speaker 1: have doubted his story that he was attacked by I
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Speaker 1: believe it started as two white males, that it changed
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Speaker 1: at some point wearing red maga hats. I believe is
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Speaker 1: how the story started. That also has changed to am
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Speaker 1: in the morning coming out of a subway sandwich shop.
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Speaker 1: According to Jesse Simolette, everyone knows him big star on Empire.
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Speaker 1: He was attacked the purpose through acid on him, put
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Speaker 1: a rope around his neck. It's my understanding. He called
5:02
Speaker 1: his manager and not nine one one. When he walked
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Speaker 1: back home. He then called nine one one When police arrived,
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Speaker 1: they found him sitting there and roughed up and the
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Speaker 1: rope steal around his neck. What is the truth. If
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Speaker 1: this is the truth, who attacked him? If it's not
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Speaker 1: the truth, will the Empire star go to jail for
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Speaker 1: pulling a hoax? When he talks about his detractors dividing people,
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Speaker 1: is he the one that's dividing people? And again, this
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Speaker 1: is not about politics. I think all politicians lie, every
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Speaker 1: single one of them. This is about a potential hoax
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Speaker 1: on police or a horrible hate crime with me an
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Speaker 1: all star panel for forensics, Xi burnand boy do we
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Speaker 1: need her now? Karen Smith out of the Florida jurisdiction.
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Speaker 1: Renowned criminal attorney, Darryl Cohen, former prosecutor joining me from Atlanta,
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Speaker 1: joining me from La psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall and joining
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Speaker 1: me right now, crime online dot COM's Ellenclaurin e K.
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Speaker 1: Let's just start at the beginning. Now, Typically when I'm
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Speaker 1: hungry at two o'clock, I get something anything, usually the
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Speaker 1: wrong thing, out of the fridge, eat it, and go
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Speaker 1: back to sleep. All right. Usually I don't feel like
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Speaker 1: getting up and even going to the fridge because I'm exhausted.
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Speaker 1: But let's just start with a two am subway sandwich call.
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Speaker 5: Go.
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Speaker 6: Well, it does appear that Jossy Samallet had arrived to
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Speaker 6: the airport in Chicago Lake, so I don't think this
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Speaker 6: was a matter of him waking up in the middle
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Speaker 6: of that and going out to the freezing cold in
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Speaker 6: the subway. It was a very cold day, though, and
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Speaker 6: he's he tells police that he's on his way home
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Speaker 6: with his subway sandwich.
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Speaker 2: We wait, wha wait.
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Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait wait wait, this is in Chicago, correct,
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Speaker 1: that's right, doctor Bethany. He must have been very hungry,
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Speaker 1: very hungry.
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Speaker 7: Indeed, his tummy must have been growling at two in
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Speaker 7: the morning, because you know, Chicago has those that windshill factor.
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Speaker 5: So if it's.
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Speaker 7: Twenty degrees out, regular temperature the wind starts blowing forty
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Speaker 7: fifty degree below windschill. I did my undergraduate work there.
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Speaker 7: Nobody goes out at two.
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Speaker 1: See Darryl Cohen, renowned Atlanta criminal defense attorney, is gnashing
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Speaker 1: his teeth and twitching his tail right now because he
7:37
Speaker 1: thinks the temp has nothing to do with any of this.
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Speaker 1: But that's why I always like to start Darryl, not
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Speaker 1: with just the temperature, but the beginning. The beginning is
7:48
Speaker 1: he wakes up, according to his story, at two a m.
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Speaker 1: And instead of getting leftover Pietz out of the fridge
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Speaker 1: or a whole chocolate cake or whatever the matter may be,
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Speaker 1: he goes out in forty below to get a subway sandwich.
8:03
Speaker 1: See I start right there. That's where I start the story.
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Speaker 1: And I think that's crazy. I'm not saying it didn't happen.
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Speaker 1: I just think that's Craig cray.
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Speaker 6: Well.
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Speaker 5: I'm wondering if subway was actually open at two in
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Speaker 5: the morning.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're twenty four hour. Yeah, I love Subway. Although
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Speaker 1: I did have a mini boycott for a week after
8:23
Speaker 1: Jared was you know, busted on child porn. I guess
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Speaker 1: it was their spokesperson. But long story, short, Darryl Cohen.
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Speaker 1: I mean, a defense attorney would argue that has absolutely
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Speaker 1: nothing to do with it.
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Speaker 5: I don't think it has anything to do with it.
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Speaker 5: I think what has to do with it is did
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Speaker 5: it or did it not happen? And as far as
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Speaker 5: I can see from all of the evidence that's been
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Speaker 5: presented to me, this guy is looking for a more
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Speaker 5: publicity for whatever the reason, and he is about to
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Speaker 5: get it.
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Speaker 1: Well, he's getting it, all right, Okay, e K. Let's
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Speaker 1: just go with the premise that it's true, because the official,
9:00
Speaker 1: the official statement from Chicago PD is he is being
9:03
Speaker 1: treated as a victim because he is a victim.
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Speaker 2: Phone.
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Speaker 8: When did you, because as you said, it was an
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Speaker 8: accurate account of the timeline, valuable information, when did you
9:19
Speaker 8: make that information available to the police.
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Speaker 4: We gave, we had to give the phone records, which
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Speaker 4: they didn't originally ask for my phone records.
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Speaker 2: They asked for my phone.
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Speaker 4: They wanted me to give my phone to the tech
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Speaker 4: for three to four hours.
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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna do that.
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Speaker 4: Why because I have private pictures and videos and numbers,
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Speaker 4: my partner's number, my family's number, my castmate's number, my
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Speaker 4: friend's numbers, my private emails, my private voice memos.
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Speaker 2: I don't know what that's going to be to hand
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Speaker 2: over my phone for.
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Speaker 4: And honestly, by then, inaccurate false statements had already been
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Speaker 4: put out there.
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Speaker 1: You are hearing our friend superstar Robin Roberts aid, ABC's GMA,
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Speaker 1: she's awesome, and she is talking to Jesse Smolette, the
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Speaker 1: Empire star. Everybody loves Empire, The Empire star who claims
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Speaker 1: that at two am in the morning in Chicago, he
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Speaker 1: decided he was hungry, goes out to subway sandwich, gets
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Speaker 1: a sandwich and is attacked by two guys that throw
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Speaker 1: acid on him or bleach bleach, wrap a rope around
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Speaker 1: his neck, attack him for being black and homosexual. He
10:39
Speaker 1: manages to get home and call police. He says, he
10:41
Speaker 1: calls his manager from the scene. Now, I think that
10:45
Speaker 1: is why they wanted the phone, to confirm that he
10:49
Speaker 1: called his manager and not nine to one one. They
10:52
Speaker 1: are being clear why they want the phone, but they
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Speaker 1: want the phone. Karen Smith joining me for Insics Expert
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Speaker 1: out of Florida. Why do they want Why do they
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Speaker 1: want Jesse Smollette's phone?
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Speaker 9: Listen when you're dealing with an alleged victim or alleged perpetrators.
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Speaker 9: The best way now in the world of social media
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Speaker 9: and texting is to get the phone of the victim.
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Speaker 9: You can look at text messages and Instagram and Facebook
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Speaker 9: and Twitter and all of those things, and text messages
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Speaker 9: especially Listen, if nothing happened, and I understand, you know,
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Speaker 9: the privacy thing, and there's phone numbers and emails and
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Speaker 9: whatever that he's not want released.
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Speaker 10: But the police they're not going to go into that.
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Speaker 5: That's not their interest.
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Speaker 9: Their interest is looking at communications between Jesse Smollett or
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Speaker 9: Smollette and these other alleged perpetrators, if there was any,
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Speaker 9: if there was any, the phone call that he made
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Speaker 9: to his manager, what time did he make it, where
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Speaker 9: did he make it from. All of those questions have
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Speaker 9: to be answered, and they have to have the device.
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Speaker 9: They can't just take somebody's word for it. That's not
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Speaker 9: how life works anymore.
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Speaker 1: Not anymore. Gerald Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecute
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Speaker 1: or felony prosecutor in the jurisdiction where I also prosecuted.
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Speaker 1: I just missed him, Darryl at the time when we
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Speaker 1: were when I first started prosecuting We did not have DNA,
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Speaker 1: we did not have cell phone pinging. We did it
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Speaker 1: old school, okay, and we did it now with the
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Speaker 1: advent of cell phone triangulation GPS tracking. When he is
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Speaker 1: saying that he won't hand his phone over, that is
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Speaker 1: a problem to me. I don't have a problem with
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Speaker 1: anything else he's saying. But when he says find you
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Speaker 1: know what, I don't have to explain why he's hungry
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Speaker 1: at two am or goes out in sub zero that
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Speaker 1: below freezing. That's a personal decision. But when you don't
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Speaker 1: hand your phone over to cops, that is a big
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Speaker 1: red flag to hay with your private communications. If you
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Speaker 1: have had bleach poured on, you, beaten up, have a
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Speaker 1: rope tied around your neck out on the street, you
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Speaker 1: had your phone over because you want those people caught, right,
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Speaker 1: I mean, have I lost my mind on that one thing?
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Speaker 5: Darryl, Well, Nancy, I'm having a very big problem with
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Speaker 5: finding out why he would call his manager. So the
13:12
Speaker 5: last time I checked, was not a law enforcement person,
13:15
Speaker 5: was not a bodyguard. Why would you not call the
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Speaker 5: police any of us? Any of us, whether we're an actor,
13:22
Speaker 5: whether we're a lawyer, whether an Indian chief. Whatever we
13:26
Speaker 5: may be, we are going to call the police if
13:28
Speaker 5: something bad happens. So, yeah, I've got a real problem
13:31
Speaker 5: with him not turning over his phone. This guy is Jesse,
13:35
Speaker 5: but he thinks he's Jesse James. He is having you
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Speaker 5: work right now. He's having a real problem.
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Speaker 1: You probably stand up all night.
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Speaker 2: Law.
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Speaker 5: I thank you coming up with that.
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Speaker 1: He's not Jesse, he's Jesse James. Okay, you know what,
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Speaker 1: I'm going to just pass over that one. You know
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Speaker 1: it's a big deal to me, Darryl, and I know
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Speaker 1: you're a famous defense attorney now, but in my mind,
13:58
Speaker 1: you'll always be an in credible felony prosecutor because you
14:02
Speaker 1: could get a jury eating out of your hand. You're
14:05
Speaker 1: always prepared. You need the law, you need the facts.
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Speaker 1: You knew it all when you went in front of
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Speaker 1: a jury. And in this case, when you have a
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Speaker 1: victim that does not cooperate with police, that is a problem.
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Speaker 1: I don't care who he is. I don't care who
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Speaker 1: he sleeps with. I could not care less. I don't care.
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Speaker 1: But if you don't cooperate with police, then that is
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Speaker 1: a problem with me. What's your problem?
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Speaker 5: There's a problem with me, as well, I've got another
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Speaker 5: problem with that. How in the world in the middle
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Speaker 5: of the night, two am, nine degrees minus nine degrees,
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Speaker 5: it's about the same frozen do you get mugged by
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Speaker 5: two people who know you're obviously black but you're homosexual?
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Speaker 5: Really and you well, because.
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Speaker 1: He's a famous things TV star. So here here's this
15:00
Speaker 1: is another wrinkle in this. To Ellenklauren Crimeline dot com.
15:05
Speaker 1: Hold On, I'm gonna write this down. Here's the thing. So,
15:08
Speaker 1: if they were targeting Jesse Smollette, Okay, hold on, they
15:14
Speaker 1: were targeting him and this was a hate crime, how
15:18
Speaker 1: do they know to be outside the subway at two
15:23
Speaker 1: am with bleach and rope? Or are they just hanging
15:27
Speaker 1: around to get a sandwich and they happen to have
15:29
Speaker 1: bleach and rope with them? If they were targeting Jesse Smolette,
15:35
Speaker 1: e K, were they casing out his apartment? Why were
15:40
Speaker 1: they there at two am? And I haven't even touched
15:43
Speaker 1: on these two guys, these two Nigerian guys that work
15:48
Speaker 1: out in his apartment building gym, that know him, that
15:54
Speaker 1: have been extras on the set of Empire, or at
15:58
Speaker 1: least one of them has that have been questioned and
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Speaker 1: released and allegedly are now saying they were paid to
16:06
Speaker 1: do the attack. But first of all, I'm going to
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Speaker 1: get to the theory. So the perps were what waiting
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Speaker 1: outside the subway samwich shop for him? I mean, what's
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Speaker 1: the theory here? How did they know he was going
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Speaker 1: to be getting a sandwich at two am if he
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Speaker 1: was the one targeted for a hate crime?
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Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, they may have not known that he was
16:27
Speaker 6: going to get a sandwich at two am. But Jesse
16:30
Speaker 6: has an an Instagram account and he's a very active
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Speaker 6: social media user, and we learned that he had been
16:36
Speaker 6: in New York during the previous days and he was
16:39
Speaker 6: on He.
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Speaker 10: Had slown back to Chicago that night, but his flight
16:44
Speaker 10: was the lead and he came in much later than expected,
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Speaker 10: and he posted a couple of Instagram stories on his Instagram.
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Speaker 6: Account talking about how his flight was delayed. So someone
16:57
Speaker 6: who had to have had a little bit of information
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Speaker 6: about what was going on with him that day. If
17:03
Speaker 6: they wanted to track his movements, they could to a
17:06
Speaker 6: certain degree through his social media activity.
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Speaker 1: Okay, let me ask you this regarding Jesse Smilette. Now
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Speaker 1: that may make it make more sense that he was
17:16
Speaker 1: out at two am? Was he was his flight so delayed?
17:20
Speaker 1: He was just getting home from the airport at say
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Speaker 1: one o'clock and hadn't eaten. Do we know the timing
17:26
Speaker 1: of that? Because that makes although the Chicago airport is
17:30
Speaker 1: full of food, but I don't know if it would
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Speaker 1: be open the food stands would be opened that late
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Speaker 1: at night. So if he gets off a plane from
17:37
Speaker 1: New York and he gets in midnight, gets to his
17:40
Speaker 1: apartment at one, he may very well be hungry. And
17:44
Speaker 1: there is a theory out there that that is how
17:48
Speaker 1: he communicated to set up the attack through posting Twitter, Facebook, Instagram,
17:55
Speaker 1: that these two brothers could actually see his movement by
18:00
Speaker 1: looking at his Facebook or Instagram. So, ek, do we
18:03
Speaker 1: know what time he got in from his flight?
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Speaker 6: You don't know exactly what time he landed or got
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Speaker 6: back to his apartment, but it does We don't have
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Speaker 6: a lot of very clear information at all, Nancy, but
18:15
Speaker 6: it does seem as though it's likely that he did
18:17
Speaker 6: stop off at his apartment's.
18:19
Speaker 1: First Crime Stories with Nancy Grace by Nancy Grace and
18:33
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Race attack faker Jesse Smilette wasn't
18:39
Speaker 1: happy at the tens of thousands of dollars he was
18:43
Speaker 1: raking in per episode as a big star on the
18:47
Speaker 1: series Empire. Oh No, he wanted more, and to get more,
18:52
Speaker 1: he tried to create a pr hurricane by arranging a
18:58
Speaker 1: race attack on himself, making it appeer as though he
19:04
Speaker 1: had been singled out and attacked because he was black
19:07
Speaker 1: and gay. He staged the whole thing. In the last days,
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Speaker 1: the Illinois Supreme Court, in its wisdom, has reversed the conviction.
19:19
Speaker 1: I will never forget these facts.
19:22
Speaker 4: I think that what people need to hear is just
19:25
Speaker 4: the truth, is just the truth, because everybody has their
19:31
Speaker 4: own idea. Some are healing and some are hurtful. But
19:37
Speaker 4: I just want young people, young members of the LGBTQ community,
19:43
Speaker 4: young black children, to know how strong that they are,
19:48
Speaker 4: to know the power that they hold in their little pinky.
19:52
Speaker 3: It's been two weeks since that night left actor Jesse
19:55
Speaker 3: Smolett bruised but not broken, and he's still processing the motions.
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Speaker 2: Have you ever been threatened before? Yeah?
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Speaker 4: I get threatened all the time on Twitter and Instagram
20:08
Speaker 4: and dms and things like that. It's like, but you know,
20:12
Speaker 4: I'm a public figure. I'm very outspoken sometimes maybe too outspoken,
20:23
Speaker 4: but it's who I am, you know, so I get
20:27
Speaker 4: the idea of pissing people off, that you're gonna rub
20:30
Speaker 4: people the wrong way.
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Speaker 3: In fact, the week before the attack, police confirm a
20:35
Speaker 3: letter was sent to the Fox studio in Chicago with
20:38
Speaker 3: threatening language, at least with powdery substance likely tailanol. Do
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Speaker 3: you think there's a link between the letter and the
20:45
Speaker 3: attack and you did mention it to the police right
20:48
Speaker 3: away out of the letter?
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Speaker 4: Absolutely, just because on the letter it had a stick
20:55
Speaker 4: figure hanging from a tree with a gun pointing towards it,
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Speaker 4: with the words that said small edge, you will die black.
21:02
Speaker 4: There was no address, but the return address it in
21:04
Speaker 4: big red, you know, like caps maga. Did I make
21:08
Speaker 4: that up too?
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Speaker 1: You're hearing our friend Robin Roberts at ABC'SGMA speaking with
21:14
Speaker 1: Empire star Jesse Smillett, and right now we know that
21:17
Speaker 1: the police investigation is going on. Police chief has confirmed
21:21
Speaker 1: the two guys that allegedly are identified in the video
21:26
Speaker 1: that police believe committed the act the attack on Jesse
21:30
Speaker 1: Smollette have been apprehended, questioned and released with no charges.
21:38
Speaker 1: What about these letters, Ellen Calaurin, What are the letters
21:42
Speaker 1: that he claims he got leading up to this attack.
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Speaker 1: Threatening letters.
21:48
Speaker 6: Yes, one, exactly one week before the night of the
21:52
Speaker 6: alleged assault, a letter was sent to the studio where
21:56
Speaker 6: he filmed the show Empire in Chicago, and it could
21:59
Speaker 6: be changed direct death threats, homophobic and racist language. There's
22:06
Speaker 6: two things about the letter that are coming up more
22:09
Speaker 6: recently in the discussion around this case. One of those
22:12
Speaker 6: is that some unidentified sources who have access to the
22:16
Speaker 6: set and may even work.
22:18
Speaker 10: With Jesse, have told CBS News.
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Speaker 6: That he was unhappy about the response to the letter
22:25
Speaker 6: and the threat that he got, that he felt that
22:27
Speaker 6: there wasn't it wasn't taken seriously enough, and that he
22:31
Speaker 6: was angry, and that they're questioning did he set up
22:35
Speaker 6: this orchestrate this purported hate crime as retaliation for that.
22:41
Speaker 10: The other thing that we're learning, and.
22:43
Speaker 6: Again these are not official law enforcement statements. These are unidentified.
22:47
Speaker 10: Sources you are talking to news outlets.
22:49
Speaker 6: But we're learning that the letter was made out of
22:52
Speaker 6: and you can see it in the photos.
22:54
Speaker 10: The letter was written sort of like.
22:55
Speaker 6: A ransom type of letter, with cutout letters from a.
22:59
Speaker 10: Magazine, and we're.
23:01
Speaker 6: Hearing that when investigators went and raided the apartment of
23:05
Speaker 6: these two brothers who have been identified as possibly involved
23:08
Speaker 6: in this attack.
23:09
Speaker 10: They took away a magazine.
23:11
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, doctor Bethany Marshall. Are
23:14
Speaker 1: these threat letters like the kinds you see on Agatha
23:18
Speaker 1: Christie and Erkil Poirot, Like in the movies where you
23:23
Speaker 1: cut out letters from the newspaper and you stick them
23:27
Speaker 1: on a piece of paper instead of divulging your handwriting.
23:32
Speaker 1: And also we are learning for sure that in a
23:36
Speaker 1: follow up visit by investigators, Malette says, the attackers mentioned
23:40
Speaker 1: something about this is Maga country, which relates back to
23:44
Speaker 1: the Trump campaign. So the whole situation is fluid, but
23:50
Speaker 1: I can tell you this. Remember the runaway Bride when
23:53
Speaker 1: she lied about getting kidnapped, she got to cut grass
23:58
Speaker 1: and do community service out in the pub. Look for
24:00
Speaker 1: I forgot how long other people have done jail time,
24:04
Speaker 1: hard jail time for bringing police in on a hoax
24:08
Speaker 1: of an investigation, because who knows what crimes were really
24:12
Speaker 1: happening at the time of a hoax, and instead of
24:16
Speaker 1: dealing with the real crime, cops are out spending thousands
24:20
Speaker 1: and thousands of dollars and man hours trying to solve
24:24
Speaker 1: a fake call, and this one is a whopper. Now,
24:28
Speaker 1: what do you make Dr Bethany Marshall the studio, the
24:32
Speaker 1: Empire Studio had assigned him bodyguards, we've been told, but
24:37
Speaker 1: according to sources, he was unhappy with the reaction to
24:40
Speaker 1: the letters. Does that mean what they didn't get enough attention?
24:43
Speaker 1: What does that mean to you, Doctor Bethany?
24:45
Speaker 7: In forensic interviews, one of the things we're trained to
24:48
Speaker 7: do with crime victims is to find out if they're
24:51
Speaker 7: doing something called lingering. Lingering is when you make up
24:57
Speaker 7: medical symptoms or you exaggerate metal symptoms for some external reward.
25:03
Speaker 7: It's that simple. Now, in twenty percent of criminal cases,
25:08
Speaker 7: lingering is involved in some way, twenty percent of PI cases,
25:11
Speaker 7: as you can imagine malingering, thirty percent of disability cases.
25:16
Speaker 7: The sicker I am, the more I'm going to get
25:18
Speaker 7: some kind of reward or attention or I'm going to
25:22
Speaker 7: get out of some consequence, like you're not going to
25:25
Speaker 7: send me to jail, I'm not going to have to
25:27
Speaker 7: go to the military. So what's so interesting to me
25:30
Speaker 7: about this story is the exaggerate two aspects. The exaggerated
25:36
Speaker 7: nature of his symptoms. He's sitting on the sidewalk, bleach
25:40
Speaker 7: on his clothing, the rope around his neck. Wouldn't you
25:43
Speaker 7: pull a rope off? Now he's sitting there, you know,
25:45
Speaker 7: with the clear sign that he's been accosted. He talks
25:49
Speaker 7: about being black, gay, LGBTQ, anything that could paint him
25:53
Speaker 7: in a sympathetic light. He keeps putting out there. The
25:56
Speaker 7: second aspect is the fuzzy nature of the timeline. When
26:00
Speaker 7: somebody malingers, they usually obstruct the investigation process. They do
26:06
Speaker 7: not want the investigators to know clearly what happens.
26:09
Speaker 10: So if I have a.
26:10
Speaker 7: Patient and my practice, who's malingering? You know, doctor Marshall,
26:13
Speaker 7: I was, I don't know. My boss keeps yelling at me.
26:16
Speaker 7: I want to bring a lawsuit, you know, I say, well,
26:18
Speaker 7: what did your boss say? Well, I don't know. I
26:20
Speaker 7: just can't remember. So malingering is associated with very fuzzy detail.
26:25
Speaker 1: So is it true? Ek ellencalorin crime online dot Com
26:28
Speaker 1: investigative reporter that smole Ed had been in New York
26:31
Speaker 1: to audition for a role in the play that is
26:35
Speaker 1: very oddly similar to his alleged attack. What do we
26:42
Speaker 1: know about the play for which he was auditioning.
26:46
Speaker 6: He was at a reading.
26:49
Speaker 10: Actually it wasn't an audition.
26:50
Speaker 6: I believe he's already.
26:51
Speaker 10: Part of the cast.
26:52
Speaker 6: But that's what he was doing in New York. He
26:53
Speaker 6: was flying back to He was flying back to Chicago
26:56
Speaker 6: from New York, and he was in New York because
26:58
Speaker 6: he was doing a re of the script of this play.
27:02
Speaker 6: And the character in the play is.
27:05
Speaker 10: A person of color.
27:06
Speaker 6: It's a gay, it's a celebrity, a sports star in
27:08
Speaker 6: the cave in the case of the fictional character.
27:11
Speaker 10: But he is someone who the.
27:14
Speaker 6: Character is someone who has been the victim of hate
27:17
Speaker 6: crimes that, according to the reports that we're reading the
27:21
Speaker 6: have some similarities in the crime that was allegedly committed
27:26
Speaker 6: against him. Just that the within hours of him arriving
27:29
Speaker 6: back to Chicago after.
27:30
Speaker 1: The same wording the same slurs, awful slurs. I'm learning
27:35
Speaker 1: also Darryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor in
27:40
Speaker 1: felony court that he Smelette did not call police. It
27:45
Speaker 1: was a close associate about forty minutes after the attack,
27:48
Speaker 1: according to the New York Times, and I think that
27:50
Speaker 1: was his manager. He did not call police, and when
27:53
Speaker 1: cops got to his place, he still was wearing the
27:56
Speaker 1: rope around his neck.
27:58
Speaker 5: Help me. I can't help you, Nancy, because it sounds
28:02
Speaker 5: to me like a setup. Did you also pay attention
28:06
Speaker 5: to his voice. This is a guy that's reading a script.
28:10
Speaker 5: This is not someone who's upset. This is not someone
28:13
Speaker 5: who's been attacked. If you're attacked, you're not going to
28:17
Speaker 5: be calm and gentle. Add that to the cocktail. Add
28:21
Speaker 5: the fact that he's not giving his phone to the
28:23
Speaker 5: police to the cocktail. Add the fact that all he
28:28
Speaker 5: can do is say, oh my gosh, I was attacked
28:31
Speaker 5: and this is terrible. But he has a noose around
28:34
Speaker 5: his neck forty minutes later. Really, this is a guy
28:38
Speaker 5: who was look many times, Nancy, people equate stars on
28:44
Speaker 5: television or on the big screen with intelligence. Sorry, not
28:49
Speaker 5: the same. Some are, some are not. This guy is
28:53
Speaker 5: reading a script. He saw a way to get even, perhaps,
28:57
Speaker 5: he saw a way to make more money. Perhaps, But
28:59
Speaker 5: what he did I didn't see is that he's not
29:01
Speaker 5: as bright as he believes himself to be. So he's
29:05
Speaker 5: not shakesleat.
29:05
Speaker 1: Take a listen to CBS Chicago reporter Charlie DeMar, brothers
29:09
Speaker 1: Ola and Abel Osendaro, captured on Streeterville surveillance cameras, told
29:14
Speaker 1: detectives their.
29:15
Speaker 11: Role in the reported January twenty ninth attack on actor
29:18
Speaker 11: Jesse Smilette, according to multiple sources. Those sources say Smolette
29:23
Speaker 11: paid the brothers thousands to carry out a staged attack.
29:26
Speaker 11: In attacks, Smolette reported to police saying two men slinging
29:30
Speaker 11: racial and homophobic slurs, dousing him in bleach and placing
29:34
Speaker 11: a rope around his neck. The Osindaros were arrested and
29:37
Speaker 11: later released by Chicago police. Simultaneously, the FBI is looking
29:42
Speaker 11: into a threatening letter Smolette received just days before the
29:45
Speaker 11: reported attack. The words pieced together by magazines and a
29:50
Speaker 11: drawing depicting a rope around a stick figure's neck. Days later,
29:53
Speaker 11: Smollette said that's what happened to him during the reported attack.
29:57
Speaker 11: During a raid of the brother's home last week, only
29:59
Speaker 11: cba to his cameras were allowed inside. Among the items,
30:03
Speaker 11: investigators walked away with a magazine, a piece of paper,
30:06
Speaker 11: along with a writing sample, and a wallet with stamps.
30:10
Speaker 11: Multiple sources say Smollette was upset the threatening letter didn't
30:14
Speaker 11: receive a bigger reaction. That's when he orchestrated the attack
30:18
Speaker 11: with the brothers. The rope used bought by at least
30:21
Speaker 11: one of the brothers, purchased at the direction of Smollette.
30:23
Speaker 11: Sources say the brothers are friends with Smolett Olach playing
30:27
Speaker 11: an extra on Empire. Last week, in a televised interview,
30:31
Speaker 11: Smollette had this to say about the scuffle with his attackers.
30:34
Speaker 4: He said, this Maga country punches me right in the face,
30:39
Speaker 4: so I punched his ass back.
30:41
Speaker 2: I noticed the rope around my neck and I started screaming.
30:44
Speaker 11: The brothers, who were first seen in grainy surveillance video,
30:47
Speaker 11: now coming into focus speaking exclusively with me over the phone,
30:52
Speaker 11: saying we're not racist, we're not homophobic, and we are
30:55
Speaker 11: not anti Trump. We were born and raised in Chicago,
30:59
Speaker 11: and our Americans citizens.
31:01
Speaker 1: You are hearing our friend at CBA Chicago reporter Charlie
31:04
Speaker 1: Damar reporting about what Chicago police took when they rated
31:09
Speaker 1: the brothers home, claiming that Smollette was upset that his
31:14
Speaker 1: threatening letters did not get the attention he had assumed
31:18
Speaker 1: that they would. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Believe it
31:32
Speaker 1: or not, Jesse Smollette, the race attack faker has gotten
31:39
Speaker 1: his conviction reversed what happened that night. People that make
31:46
Speaker 1: false claims to police, much less to this extent, usually
31:50
Speaker 1: land behind bars if they're regular mortals like all of us.
31:55
Speaker 1: If your Hollywood star, maybe you get different treatment. Jesse Smollette,
32:00
Speaker 1: superstar on the cast of Empire, to Ellenclauren, Crime Online
32:05
Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter where we have all breaking crime
32:09
Speaker 1: and justice news. Ellen, what can you tell me about
32:12
Speaker 1: these two guys. Everyone refers to them as Nigerian. They're American,
32:16
Speaker 1: That's right, Nancy.
32:17
Speaker 10: They were born and raised in Chicago.
32:19
Speaker 6: The reason I believe that people are getting calling them
32:22
Speaker 6: their jeering is because they, for reasons that have not
32:25
Speaker 6: been explained and I do not understand, apparently flew to
32:29
Speaker 6: Nigeria the day after the attack and came back to
32:32
Speaker 6: Chicago last week where they were met with investigators at
32:36
Speaker 6: the airport. That has not been explained why that happened
32:39
Speaker 6: or if it has.
32:40
Speaker 12: Anything to do at all with the alleged assaults. And
32:45
Speaker 12: I also wanted to point something else out since we're
32:48
Speaker 12: talking about the rope and the phone.
32:52
Speaker 10: A lot of the things that have come up in.
32:54
Speaker 6: Recent days really don't look look good like they look
32:57
Speaker 6: very suspicious, and and things are started to really maybe
33:01
Speaker 6: fall apart here in this story. But a couple of
33:03
Speaker 6: things I think are not suspicious that happened here. I
33:07
Speaker 6: don't think it's suspicious that he did not want to
33:10
Speaker 6: hand over his entire phone immediately.
33:13
Speaker 10: He's a public figure, he's a celebrity. You who had
33:15
Speaker 10: Allan received before.
33:17
Speaker 1: Allan, have you ever been attacked at two am, had
33:20
Speaker 1: a rope tied around your neck and bleach pored on you?
33:24
Speaker 1: Because if you have, I'd like to have you know
33:25
Speaker 1: about that, okay, because if that happens to you and
33:28
Speaker 1: your life is in danger, and cops say we need
33:30
Speaker 1: your phone, you go here. Whatever I mean, when a
33:34
Speaker 1: cop pulls me over, which has happened, I like say,
33:38
Speaker 1: whatever here, take it all, okay, just please leave my
33:42
Speaker 1: children behind whatever. I don't want a problem with a cop. Okay.
33:48
Speaker 1: Nobody should be above the law. And if they want
33:51
Speaker 1: your phone, give your phone. But you know what, that's
33:54
Speaker 1: you and this is me, So go ahead with your analysis, okay.
34:00
Speaker 6: But what I wanted to also say is that I
34:02
Speaker 6: believe he did agree to hand over the phone records
34:06
Speaker 6: about the rope. What we heard in the in the
34:09
Speaker 6: beginning of this narrative was that he kept the rope
34:12
Speaker 6: around his neck because he didn't want to sort of
34:14
Speaker 6: disturb the scene and he wanted the responding officers to
34:19
Speaker 6: see what had been done.
34:21
Speaker 10: That was the explanation for the rope of being left.
34:25
Speaker 1: You know what, I hear you. And he could have
34:28
Speaker 1: claimed that he did not want his DNA his I
34:33
Speaker 1: don't think you get prints off rope, but any of
34:36
Speaker 1: his fibers or DNA on the rope or to ruin
34:39
Speaker 1: any evidence on the rope, so I can understand that.
34:42
Speaker 1: Now it's my understanding that he did hand over phone records,
34:48
Speaker 1: but that they were heavily redacted. Now, according to TMZ
34:53
Speaker 1: our friend Harvey Levin, the phone records were handed over
34:58
Speaker 1: and the cops reachject. The cops rejected them. Darryl cod
35:03
Speaker 1: are you sitting down? The cops rejected them, saying that
35:07
Speaker 1: they were so heavily redacted that they were basically on
35:12
Speaker 1: no use. What about handing over your phone records to
35:15
Speaker 1: cops and you redact them.
35:19
Speaker 5: Oh, come on, Nancy, this is absurd. If you have
35:22
Speaker 5: a victim of a crime, First of all, I want
35:25
Speaker 5: to go back to the net to the news. If
35:27
Speaker 5: I've got a noose around my neck, oh my god,
35:29
Speaker 5: I'm going to rip that off as quickly as I
35:31
Speaker 5: possibly can, because I am freaked out. This guy was
35:35
Speaker 5: not hurt. This guy was not attacked. He is looking
35:39
Speaker 5: for publicity. He may have won an Emmy for Empire,
35:43
Speaker 5: but the news outlets in Chicago are going to win
35:46
Speaker 5: a news Emmy for their coverage of this guy who
35:49
Speaker 5: doesn't recognize the truth from a lie. He is scripted
35:53
Speaker 5: and he's gotten himself into a problem. He's a walking,
35:57
Speaker 5: living soap opera.
35:58
Speaker 1: That's the whole reason they got into in the phone
36:00
Speaker 1: records to start with, is that Smolette said to cops
36:04
Speaker 1: he was on the phone with his manager at the
36:06
Speaker 1: time of the attack, and that the manager says he
36:10
Speaker 1: heard the racial and homophobic slurs being thrown, and they
36:16
Speaker 1: want to authenticate that that call was in fact made.
36:20
Speaker 1: They asked on that for the records about two weeks
36:23
Speaker 1: before they got a PDF file. Now, police also say
36:28
Speaker 1: their cameras everywhere in the area, but there is a
36:31
Speaker 1: sixty second gap in the video where you don't see
36:34
Speaker 1: the Empire start, so there's no video of the actual attack.
36:38
Speaker 1: I've looked at shots of the video and you see
36:41
Speaker 1: two persons of interest in surveillance footage. Now, this is
36:44
Speaker 1: what is telling to me, Dr Bethany Marshall. These two
36:47
Speaker 1: guys that everybody calls Nigerians, they're Americans, Let's be very
36:51
Speaker 1: clear on that, who take off to Nigeria the day
36:55
Speaker 1: after the attack. They work out in his building. At
36:59
Speaker 1: least one of them does in the gym in Smolette's building,
37:03
Speaker 1: his apartment building. One of them has been an extra
37:06
Speaker 1: on the set. They're totally buff. They look like their bodybuilders.
37:09
Speaker 1: I've seen their photos and I never see them wearing
37:12
Speaker 1: a shirt. I mean not judging, but they are totally buff.
37:15
Speaker 1: So you can see they work out all the time.
37:18
Speaker 1: They take off for Nigeria. The day after the attack,
37:21
Speaker 1: they come back, they're met by the cops, they are questioned,
37:25
Speaker 1: they are released, Doctor Bethany, no charges, and after meeting
37:30
Speaker 1: with them, cops say they want to reinterview Jesse Smolette.
37:34
Speaker 1: What does that say to you, Doctor Bethany.
37:36
Speaker 7: Well, first of all, the trip to Nigeria, they're now
37:39
Speaker 7: thirty five hundred dollars richer because they just got paid
37:42
Speaker 7: for the attack, right, And some people do not think
37:46
Speaker 7: ahead when they collude with somebody who's drawing them into
37:49
Speaker 7: a crime. So they thought, may have fought no big deal,
37:53
Speaker 7: we'll rough them up, We'll put a rope around his neck,
37:56
Speaker 7: we'll take vacation, we'll come back, this will have all
37:58
Speaker 7: blown over. But you know, but they talk to the police,
38:01
Speaker 7: and as I was saying about Lingering, the whole story
38:04
Speaker 7: does not shake out. The timeline is not consistent, and
38:07
Speaker 7: so the police are going to look to Jesse. And
38:10
Speaker 7: I would wonder what is Jesse's reward in all of
38:15
Speaker 7: this When people Malinger symptoms.
38:17
Speaker 10: You know, I was.
38:17
Speaker 9: Roughed up, I was a victim. They do it.
38:20
Speaker 7: For a reward. Is he trying to up his Twitter following?
38:26
Speaker 7: Is he negotiating a contract right now and he wants
38:29
Speaker 7: to prove to the EP of the show that he
38:33
Speaker 7: is the center of a national news situation. Is he
38:38
Speaker 7: wanting to take somebody else's role in empire? You know,
38:42
Speaker 7: I think that there's a reward there somewhere, And if
38:45
Speaker 7: you follow that trail, the.
38:47
Speaker 1: Whole thing begins to be looking and researching and following
38:50
Speaker 1: and asking questions. I'd like to say this is the
38:54
Speaker 1: end of the story, but Somehow I predict it ain't
39:00
Speaker 1: over yet, with Jesse Smollett Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,