Latest / Caught on the Mike... / Singer/songrwriter- Shane Weisman

Transcript

Singer/songrwriter- Shane Weisman · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Disclaimer, the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's a moment every artist hopes to reach when the noise fades out, the second guesting disappears, and what's left is something completely honest.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guest didn't just find that moment.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: He built an entire album around it.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's why songwriter and producer Steve Weisman is here, and his new record, Better Luck Tomorrow, isn't just a collection of songs, it's a statement.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Written and recorded in a six-week first and hole of tasting something bigger while wondering if it's ever going to show up.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is a conversation about risk timing and what happens when you finally bet on yourself.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I am excited to welcome Shane on the show today.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Microsoft.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Caught on the Mike.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: From years of grinding it out behind the scenes to finally capturing something that feels fully honest.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guest is stepping into his moment in a big way.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Fresh off the release of his deeply personal concept album, Better Luck Tomorrow, Nashville songwriter and producer Shane Wiseman joins me to talk about wiping the slate clean, trusting the process, and what happens when you finally find your voice.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Shane, how the heck are you, man?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing great.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: How are you, Mike?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, fantastic, fantastic.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was just telling you, I was listening to Better Luck tomorrow this afternoon, and I can't pinpoint where or what feelings it churns up in listening to it, but I think of things like pre-problematic, early Ryan Adams, um, Jason Isbo, like songwriters along that ilk.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Was that your intent, or is that some of the core of some of your influences?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: I do like Ryan Adams.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: He has some great records.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Jason Isbo's great.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, I I go back from the Beatles, the Springsteen, the Petty, to earlier stuff like, or newer stuff like Wilco or Dawes or whatever.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: I just the songwriting process is important.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I want to write great lyrics, I want to write great songs, so I mean, I'm glad uh I'm glad you're hearing some good stuff out of it.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's amazing, man.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's kind of take it back to the beginning.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: What first pulled you into songwriting, and when did you realize that this was something you wanted to seriously pursue?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I was a little drummer boy, Mike, at uh at like six years old.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: When my my parents got divorced when I was young, and my dad would just like drop off instruments at my mom's house, and a drum set was one of them.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it was to annoy her or uh or to get me interested, but I just I gravitated towards it and started playing, and I can I could still picture like sitting behind the set, like knowing, oh, this could be my life without really knowing that could be a job.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Or that we even had to have jobs in life.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was young.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then that evolved as I was drumming every day, all day.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: I started to like hear things in my head and had no idea what that meant.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then I saw Bruce Brankstein live at like 12 years old, and seeing, and we were like right in the pit, right up front.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: My mom like dragged me up there, like, get us up here, it's my son.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And uh people were like, Okay, get up there, get up there.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm watching him with a guitar singing songs.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh sh wait, can I cuss on here?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Please do, please do.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Shit.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, that's what I need.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: I need a guitar, I think, to get this out of my head.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I asked for a guitar for my 13th birthday, and it's it was off to the race.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: I just immediately started writing songs and and would loop stuff in my basement, crank it up through the amp, and then drum to it.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I just I just knew um creating music was was my life.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: However, plot twist.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I was a pick competitive golfer from the age five to eighteen.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that was like in my dad's eyes and my whole town.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, everyone's like Shane's the golfer, he's gonna be pro.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: I totally wasn't gonna be pro.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: But that was like the lifestyle everyone already chose for me.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, my parents were divorced, and my mom, I think, knew music was my thing because it was always out at her house.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I can remember like after school, my dad would like call my mom and be like, is he at the range?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Yes, he's at the range.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I'd be in the basement jamming, like learning Kings of Leon or something.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: And uh when I graduated high school, I had like college offers to play golf and all this stuff, and that was a tough thing to tell my pops.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think I'm gonna be a musician.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, what do you play?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like he had no idea, and here we are.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I you know, uh, parental influence is one of those things, you know.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I come from uh a father that was a professional musician before me, and then I got into music, and now my daughter is getting into music, and so it's it's kind of crazy.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, if he was the guy that brought the drum set over to your mom's house, like you know what's funny is now he looks at my music career like he did my golf career.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: So he uh Amazing.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: So the tables have turned.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you mentioned you grew up on artists like the Beatles, Tom Petty, Bob Dylan.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: What did those legends teach you early on about songwriting?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, Springsteen was the main love.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um Dylan, I didn't get into Dylan until I was 20 because no one in my family liked Dylan, and it wasn't until I was going through a major heartbreak, like my first huge breakup, and uh I remember bringing back memories.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: I remember Googling best songs for a heartbreak just to like find some sort of connection, and Don't Think Twice It's Alright was on there.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: And this was uh with this particular girl, we had broken up twice.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm listening to the song, I'm like, oh why didn't nobody show me Bob Dylan growing up?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was always Springsteen, and if you know Springsteen, he worshipped Bob Dylan, so like you think we would touch on that in in class, but Springsteen though, I mean he he his songwriting to me is everything, you know, on and off the off the stage.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: He's like my my my idol.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think he just hits the nail on the head.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: He has songs that are like your typical three-minute, like perfectly sculpted songs with a premise, and then he has these meandering, wild songs that only he could write, you know.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: So like I think a blend of that seeps into me and hopefully onto my my record.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: I love that, man.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: You spent a lot of your 20s refining your craft.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what did that period look like and what were you chasing sonically while you were doing that?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't think I knew what I was chasing, is the thing.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, I started producing like right out of high school.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And even though I was working for other artists and learning that craft, uh, I didn't quite trust myself with my own songs yet.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I was hiring other producers to help me find that sound uh with my direction, but like I I mean I must have made like three albums in my twenties.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: That I just did not put out.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I just I don't know if it was in my voice or like some of the songs are actually really fucking good, but like just nothing felt right.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone would always tell me, like, just put it out, you're never gonna know when it's done.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a classic artist.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I think I'll know.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I will know when it's when I've done it.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: And with better luck tomorrow, like I just knew.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I don't even like this is done.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like the voice cracks and all, like, this is the record, this is the sound.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I was just like, I made a lot of dark, acoustic, like sad records, and then I made like weird, upbeat poppy, like I didn't know what I was searching for, and then I think all of that tied together to this album.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I felt like I I'm always like trying for the next thing, so it's like I wanted every vibe to be on one record.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, make one record, then let the next record speak, and the next.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think I found a happy medium for this where like it does tie together, and this is like a top-to-bottom listen, I think.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: But there are multiple vibes on this record, like everything I was trying to chase in my twenties, I think I figured it out and like uh put made this album.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think there is a fine line whenever you take into consideration you only get one chance to make a first impression.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's a fine line between imposter syndrome and just knowing when something is right.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like that's kind of what you were you were battling with a little bit in that earlier process.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: 100%, dude.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I still battle with that.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, when I would make a song, uh every part of the process, this is how it looks for me.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I come up with the idea, I'm like, oh my god, this is the best thing ever.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and then I'll like forget about it, I'm like, that idea sucked.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'll write the song and I'm like, this is great.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Then I'll hate it.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Then I'll choose to make a demo, I'm like, oh no, what am I talking about?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is fucking sick.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Then I hate the demo.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so like basically every step of the process, I grow to like love it again.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: So like, even like when I finished this album, which I loved for the longest time, I hated it.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then the second it hit my phone, like it was out, and I listened to it, I'm like, this record kicks ass.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: So like I think I've uh proved the imposter syndrome, OCD, whatever the fuck it is.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I proved it wrong, I think.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think just like make something great that you like and move on.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Did you uh uh have any collaborative partners that were kind of putting you in check?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason I asked this is my best friend who I used to write songs with, he would present me with these ideas that I absolutely fell in love with.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then 24 hours later we'd get together and he's like, No, we're not gonna work on that anymore.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: I fucking hate that.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, did you have any collaborative partners while you were writing some of these songs, or was it all self-driven?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was all self-driven other than one song, uh Smoking in the Rain.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I wrote everything and produced everything here.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um but Smoking in the Rain, I I know this dude, Dennis, who's like a 60-year-old songwriter in town, and I ran into him and he was like, Shane, can I I know you write by yourself, but like I've had a title for 15 years, and I've been waiting for the right dude to write it with, and it's you.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I mean, like, what's the title?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then he goes, uh Smoking in the Rain.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: It never works.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, that's kind of cool.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Come over.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: So he came over the next day, we wrote the song, and he doesn't, he's just a lyricist, so like I was in complete control of the the music and the melody, so I felt a little more comfortable doing it.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we wrote that song.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then like a couple months ago, but I that was the only one I didn't record here either.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I recorded that live in in Memphis at Sam Phillips, and it was co-produced with my buddy Brad Allen Williams.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's all live, like vocal, live the track, like it was take two.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: No one's ever even heard the song until the studio.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I remember when I got a mix back, I like hit up Dennis for coffee.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then after I was like, Come in my car real quick.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I played it for him, and he just started crying.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, Oh my god.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing, dude.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that one I knew was, and it fits the vibe and the meaning of the record.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's the only like uh collaborative piece on the album.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, producing music's a huge part of your identity, and it's influenced your approach as an audience.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of pulling from older material, you scrapped everything and started fresh.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what was the catalyst that kind of pushed you to make that decision and move forward on that route?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, trusting my instincts and also um I'm very fortunate to I've you know built some great connections producing.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So the albums I was talking about that I made in my 20s, I was fortunate enough to like have someone like pitch to all these labels and like all these people were hearing it and giving me feedback.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Nice, and it could have been a numbers game too, but everyone was like, Yeah, it's not for me.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, so maybe I'm doing something wrong here.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and enough time went by.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: I took like a year off from writing.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't force writing anymore.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: If I want to write, I write.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And all that frustration went into Better Luck Tomorrow.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: That was just the first song I wrote.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And after I wrote that song, I was like, you know what?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: This is inspiring me to write an album under this umbrella of Better Luck Tomorrow.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, yeah, I could have chose some great songs I wrote in the past or whatever.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but something was telling me to just write something new.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, people didn't like what I did in the past, or who knows what the story was, but I I was it was just I was just called to write an album, I think.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I do want to attack the whole concept here in just a moment, but I do think it's worth calling out that you had a six-week creative burst that you recorded and wrote this album in.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: What was that process like day to day, and how did it impact the emotional honesty of the songs?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was awesome, honestly.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like as depressing as some of the songs were, like what like Wonder or something.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I hit such a creative stride, man.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was like so.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, like I would write a song, take a day to kind of craft it, the next day I would record it, the next day I would like edit it a little, and and then I'd send it to mixing.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: So like every song was about like two, two and a half, three days.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I just kept going.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And before I knew it, I had an album.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: That was really it.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: It it's almost like you forced yourself to say yes to everything for a short window of time.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: I threw nothing out, like whatever the next song was was on the album, and I was cool with it.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was just like, I'm gonna sit and write an album based off of me right now.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: So like I kind of like that.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm hoping that as I keep making records, like it just represents that chapter of my life.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, where a debut album typically isn't like that.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's like represents the last years and years of writing and living.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um so this is like a specific chapter of my life, which is still kind of recent, even.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was gonna ask, be what flipped that switch?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: What flipped the switch from the guy that recorded three albums worth of music but never released it, to the guy that wrote an amazing album in six weeks worth of time?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Better luck tomorrow, man.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like that song, the second I wrote it and recorded it, I like knew I think I I entered a new chapter as an artist.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just following it.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think learning too, like, you know, I was 29 when I started making the album.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I've been in the industry a decade.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you learn stuff about what it means to walk away from a song and call it done, and and just kind of trust your instincts.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: So the whole album is a concept album centered around luck.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: How did that idea take shape and what does luck mean to you personally?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, luck is weird, dude.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's this whole concept of like it's not an actual thing, you know?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we we believe in this luck is gonna come.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think we create our own luck, to be honest.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think I figured that out when I made this album.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, instead of uh recording a record and shopping it around and trying to get people to jump on board with you, like no, I made a great record, put it out, or put out a couple singles on my own, and like then things were coming my way.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it it it showed me that luck is created when you put in the work and believe in yourself.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do I believe in luck still?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Fuck yeah, and I and I want all of it, dude.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, I don't know.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think luck is just a funny thing that like everyone talks about and wants, but like has no idea what it is, when it'll come, if it's real.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's like an interesting thing and it's so simple.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: There are different versions of you woven throughout the record.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Can you break down that storytelling approach and how it reflects your real life experiences?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, there's there's the depressed shane that shines through like wonder and smoking in the rain, and then you have like the positive outlook shame, which is better luck tomorrow and try again, um, which I think is cool too.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, ending a record called Better Luck Tomorrow with a song called Try Again.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that was kind of genius.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't there's just all different sides of me exploring myself and my family and religion, and like as I've gotten older, I've I've grew into a whole different person and stopped believing things I used to.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that tripped me up, you know.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um but then I'm also seeping into other people, you know.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like right where you want me is not through my eyes.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't want to say who, nor is Adelaide.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: So some of these songs are people close to me who might made choices that affected me and enough to write a song about it.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's just all sorts of people and feelings flying through the album.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you mentioned being a decade in to the industry, producing right out from high school, you know, working with other artists and and uh, you know, making a lot of connections where you're at.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um what has been the biggest change about the industry that you've had to embrace over the last 10 years?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Social media.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, I knew you were gonna say that.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't a thing.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't a thing.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's everything.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: And now we're seeing that it's evolving so quick.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like the algorithm is accepting different things constantly, you know.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think learning on how to navigate that without letting it nav like run your shit is important.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, sure, do I stress out over followers and numbers and this?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I think at the end of the day, like consistency tends to win.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm one record in, um, five thousand followers.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm very fresh in terms of uh an artist in the spotlight, but um I'm just trying to stay consistent and navigate this this social media world and accept that this is how we get ourselves out there.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: That is, I think, a challenge for anybody involved and really deep into a creative endeavor right now is not getting hung up on the vanity metrics and instead realizing what maybe you're not seeing.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, even as a podcaster, I I deal with that on uh on on occasion.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, social media follows may be small, but my audio listens are exceptional.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I just went to video, like I've been doing this pod for five years, and I just went to video two years ago.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that's been a little bit slow.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've been doing it audio only for five years, but um, but yeah, it It's it's interesting because I just had a band on uh called Major League.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: They were a pop punk band from New Jersey, and they got big in the early 2010s, but they got big before Spotify really blew up and before algorithms and content creation started driving everything.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: So they said the same exact thing you did.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: They're just like, we're just trying to figure this shit out.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's so hard sometimes.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's so hard.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then, like, you see the people like the Noah Khans where like they post one video and then I mean he doesn't have to probably post ever, you know, and he's and he's in the clear, but then you have the bands who are crushing it, but are still like having to keep up with content and trends and all that shit, and it's just like where's the happy balance, right?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And when and when is a a a viral moment gonna come?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I try not to even think about it.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, I just want to make interesting content, yeah.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you you really can't.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've advised a lot of people in my social circles, a lot of former musicians or future musicians, and I'm like, I hate to tell you this, but the best place to um get new music heard right now, unfortunately, is TikTok because it's got the most free form algorithm of any of the social media sites there are.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like Facebook is all ad driven now, Instagram's kind of borderline ad-driven.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Every once in a while you'll have a reel that just takes off or clip that takes off.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: But TikTok, if you want discovery, TikTok, and I heard YouTube shorts is getting really good too for discovery as well.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I scroll constantly.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm addicted to YouTube, dude.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: I have a limit on my phone that allows me to not use it, and I've noticed that every day I ignore the limit.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like it'll pop it'll pop up like you used all your time, bro.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, eh, I could go a little longer here.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: So funny you mentioned that.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: I uh one of my side hustles is I sit cage side and I call fights, and my co-host, uh big MMA promotion here in the Midwest.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: My co-host, he has the same thing on his uh phone, and he's like, dude, he goes, I'm getting a DM right now, but I can't answer it because my phone has me locked out of Instagram because I put this app that locks me out, and I have to do this whole exercise before I can unlock it.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, wow, man, you are incredibly disciplined to be able to do that.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's impressive.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: I there has been one day where I ignored the limit.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's bad.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's so bad.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: So wait, where in the Midwest are you?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm from Ohio.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in Lincoln, Nebraska.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Dude.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Omaha and Lincoln area.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: So have you found any success in as far as like unlocking that algorithm for yourself to drive new traffic to your music?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: A little.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, nothing astronomical, but like, yeah, I mean, I I you you you start to see like when you try new things, what's working, what's not.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: So like right now, I have like a 12-week plan for the album where every week is dedicated to a song.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I have like four or five different videos that I'm posting every week.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: So like when I hit like week six, I'm gonna look at okay, what was what's been working, what hasn't, and then lean harder into what's working and and plan content days and do the whole thing.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was gonna ask you, how does m being a self-promoting marketing machine feel for you?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Sucks.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, I just I just want to tour and make records and then make and make cool music videos.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I guarantee once it's working and I have a million followers, I'm gonna be pumped and want to do it all the time.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's just fighting through uh some of the early stages and trusting that you got something and some things take time.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's really it.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, talking with a lot of musicians, everybody has experienced that pit in your gut moment where you know that you're just you can't define it, but you know you're on the precipice of something huge.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's just when that right moment, that lightning is gonna exactly strike, but you can't define it in any way, shape, or form.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it sucks when like now I'm like I have like a small team of people and they're all like telling me that.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: So you have more people like being like, no, it's gonna be huge and it's gonna work.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, all right, why don't we just like live in the moment?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Let's enjoy the record.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: I love the record, I'm gonna keep pushing it.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: But hearing constant, and it's good, it's reassuring to like hear, like, no, something's going to work, and you will be playing arenas and whatever.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: But it's also kind of uh maybe not so healthy to hear it all the time.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because there is a thing, and uh you have to stop and consider you're building these soft marketing skills while you're promoting this piece of art that you're incredibly proud of, to where there's this fear that you do don't want those soft marketing skills to bleed into your art, especially in future works.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's uh it's quite the game we're playing, for sure.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm playing it.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, playing it.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: So Better Lock Tomorrow came out in February.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: How has the songwriting process, because I know it never ends, been since the album came out?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: I have written a few songs and pumped about, and it feels like I'm I'm chasing a a cool vibe for record two already.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, however, my attorney's telling me to stop writing and keep promoting.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um so if he's watching this, I'm not writing anything.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm I'm writing a lot of songs on piano right now, um, which I did a couple for the album, but um I've noticed it's an entirely different musical like arrangements I'm coming up with.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um because sometimes I'll start on guitar and if I get stuck I'll go to piano, whatever.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kind of like training my or testing myself to just stick on piano and and write some cool some different songs that way.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: So taking that into consideration, and you know, with everything that clicked with better luck tomorrow, do you feel that you've redefined yourself as an artist and you've realized, okay, this is me now?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I'm like ready.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I feel more ready than I ever have been to just literally do this at a high level.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if anything were to come my way, like I'm ready.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm locked and loaded.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: The live show is even better than the album.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: I got a great band, I'm constantly making new stuff, and I never force it too.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I can go months and months without writing, and I don't care.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like I used to stress, I have to write a song every day.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I literally don't give a fuck anymore.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if something comes, it comes, great.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that's my process, really.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't force it.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: So for a person that's listening to this or watching this, how would they differentiate a live performance from a recorded performance for you?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's a show, man.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: It is a totally it's a fucking hopefully a transcending show.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um you're gonna hear longer versions, you're gonna hear different intros, um, different versions of songs.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had an album release show, and like the first track on my record, I Wanna Be Alone, which I played the I played it out of order just for the sake of the show.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: But when I got to that song, I did it solo on piano.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And a song called The Way I Started, just guitar and organ until chorus two, you know, and there's so many moments on the record, and I I've been hearing this from a lot of people when they listen to it, they're like, this would be great live.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because there's so many sing-alongs and solos and like cool things on the record, and it's very much highlighted live.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I know this sounds like a redundant question, but it's not.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: The album's out.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're stepping into this new chapter.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Let's throw our conversation about social media and marketing out the window just for a moment.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: What does better look better luck tomorrow look like for you moving forward?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: The album or the meaning?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Both.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I guess this goes back to like the better luck tomorrow, right?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: So wanting to create more luck for myself is a goal of mine.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: So putting in more work, whether that is on the marketing side or writing new songs or playing more shows, I hope to just keep doing that.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then in terms of the album, I just hope people find it, you know, and want to buy tickets to see it live.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's the main goal.
• 31:59
  unknown: Yeah.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: The live show is everything to me.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like making the record, I adore that process, and that's what lives on everyone's phones to get them through the day.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: But when you can see that live and the band crushes it, and doesn't just go up there and play just like the record, and they walk off, like, and there's an interaction, like I want to I want to feel like like when I see a great show, I feel like they're playing to me.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's my goal.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I want the I want someone who's listening to the record or if they're seeing it live to literally feel like I'm I'm talking to them and it was made for them.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, from this vantage point that you have, if you were to go back in time and give your childhood self that got that brand new drum set at your mom's house some advice, what would you give him?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh why the fuck did you wait so long uh to put music out?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: I guess just patience, you know?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Trust the process, listen to the boss.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh be yourself.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: So where do you see your career two years from now?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Two years, let's see.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be playing some decent sized theaters around the world.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'll have social media cracked.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: It'll it uh all people will see is me.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be annoying.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's just gonna happen.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: Love it, and uh and hopefully gearing up to get that second record out.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: I love it, dude.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my closing question, I ask this of every single guest that does the show.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit of a curveball, but through your experience, through this more recent album, and through all of your music endeavors, what's your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today through your eyes?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm, don't judge.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: I hate when people judge.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like just be yourself.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's their own person, everyone's born with different tastes, different looks, like we're all roaming the earth for the same goal, is they keep living on it.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: So be kind.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: Just be kind.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, the phrase I use for everybody is you are an individual, so is everybody else.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: The sooner you understand that, it it's a lot easier to ever for everybody to get along.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I love it.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not too far off then.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Shane, I have really enjoyed our conversation.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you tell everybody where they can find your music and um everything about you online?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's all under my name, Shane Wiseman.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, better luck tomorrow.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Listen to it, live it.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I call it BLT.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: So if you like BLTs, this is literally the perfect record for you.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and uh create that luck, baby.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love it, dude.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell you, uh, I'm glad to know you, I'm glad to have had this conversation with you.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: I am super excited to see what happens with your career.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know you've got a friend and an ally in me.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: So anytime you want to jump on, do the show again in two years from now, whenever you're filling big amphitheaters and stuff, you know, you know you gotta come back with Caught on the Mike, right?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, yes.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope, I hope when I'm playing in Nebraska, you'll come out.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I I won't only come out, I'll be standing at the side of the stage, bro.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, with a little laminate on, you know.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Done deal.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: We'll do a podcast backstage.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Shane Weisman, thank you so much for doing the show.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: The world's a much better place with you and it, my friend.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: You too, bro.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Nice to meet you.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Once again, I'd like to thank my new friend Shane Weisman for doing the show today.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: His brand new album, Better Luck Tomorrow, is available on all streaming platforms.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Please do yourself a favor, find yourself a quiet place, maybe in your car, do up the album, go for a drive, listen to it, start to finish.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: You can thank me later.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you're giving Shane a follow on all social media platforms.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: He is on Instagram at ShaneWiseman, and while you're being generous with the follows, make sure you're following at CaughtOnTheMic on all of the same social media platforms.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Please subscribe to my YouTube channel, and if you don't mind, share an episode you like with one of your friends to help grow the show.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: You can also visit me www.cotonthemic.com or send me an email, caught on the mic at gmail.com for all guest inquiries.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: This has been Caught on the Mike with Michael Clark.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: I am Michael Clark.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, thank you.