Latest / Voddie Baucham Sermons / Voddie Baucham - TS&TT Voddie Baucham It's Not Like Being Black The Sexual Activists Hijacking of Civil Rights

Transcript

Voddie Baucham - TS&TT Voddie Baucham It's Not Like Being Black The Sexual Activists Hijacking of Civil Rights · Voddie Baucham Sermons

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  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us today on this episode of The
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  Speaker 1: Sword and Trial. We're especially grateful to our Founders Alliance
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  Speaker 1: members and churches that support founders so that we are
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  Speaker 1: able to produce content like this for you. Today, we
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  Speaker 1: welcome Votie Bauckham into the conversation. Graham and I talked
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  Speaker 1: to him about his newest book, It's Not Like Being Black.
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  Speaker 1: This is an outstanding book. You ought to secure it.
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  Speaker 1: It drops today on all the various outlets where you
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  Speaker 1: can purchase books. And you'll hear some details about how
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  Speaker 1: this book has been suppressed by various media outlets. So
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  Speaker 1: listen in. If you find it helpful, please pass it around.
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  Speaker 1: Let others know about it as well. Welcome to The
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  Speaker 1: Sword and Trial. The Sword and Trial is a podcast
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  Speaker 1: of Founders Ministries and Founders Exists for the recovery of
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  Speaker 1: the gospel and the reformation of local churches. I'm Tom Askell.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm Graham Gundin.
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  Speaker 1: We're delighted to have you join us again today, and
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  Speaker 1: we are delighted to welcome again our good friend, Votie Baucom,
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  Speaker 1: who is actually here in the States, though he's living
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  Speaker 1: in Lusaka, Zambia. Votie's over here taking care of some
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  Speaker 1: ministry opportunities. So you're coming to us today from North Florida. Votie, welcome.
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  Speaker 3: Hey, thank you very much. It's good to be with
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  Speaker 3: you again. Wish you could have been in studio.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish you could have been too. You know,
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  Speaker 1: you're in Florida. Why didn't you just stop by, man?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. My bad. Yeah, I know.
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  Speaker 1: People say that all the time. Hey, we're coming to Pensacola.
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  Speaker 1: Can we get together? I say, yeah, let's get together
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  Speaker 1: in Tampa. It's another day's drive for you. But Florida
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  Speaker 1: is a long state, for those of you that don't know.
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  Speaker 1: We're on the very southwest edge of it. We're closer
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  Speaker 1: to Cuba than most of the United States. So that's
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  Speaker 1: just the way geographically we're located. Well, Vody, you have
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  Speaker 1: been in Zambia now for eight years.
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  Speaker 2: How long? It'll be nine years in August.
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  Speaker 1: Nine in August, working primarily with African Christian University, getting
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  Speaker 1: that up and going. And things are going well there
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  Speaker 1: from what I understand about how that ministry is continuing.
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  Speaker 1: Any update on it?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, man. I mean, we're hanging in there. We continue
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  Speaker 2: to press forward.
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  Speaker 3: We continue to grow and experience growing pains. But yeah,
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  Speaker 3: we're graduating students and they're making incredible impact. So it's
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  Speaker 3: great to be on that side of it early on.
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  Speaker 3: There was so much theory about what we could do
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  Speaker 3: and what could happen. And now that we've had a
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  Speaker 3: number of students graduate, we've been able to see the fruit.
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  Speaker 3: It's really taken on a whole new understanding, a whole
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  Speaker 3: new perspective.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's great to know you're doing that. You've
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  Speaker 1: also been involved in church planning, pastoring while you're over
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  Speaker 1: there as well. And helping us to launch the Institute
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  Speaker 1: of Public Theology, which we hope to have our first
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  Speaker 1: graduates in September, three men that have persevered through. And
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  Speaker 1: we've got others in that class that we think will
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  Speaker 1: ultimately graduate as well. So appreciate your work on that
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  Speaker 1: and serving as a board member for Founders. Absolutely. You know,
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  Speaker 1: it's been great to partner with you in ministry. And
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  Speaker 1: we're excited to talk today about your newest book that
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  Speaker 1: is due out. This very day, it's dropping today so
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  Speaker 1: people can go and get it wherever books are sold.
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  Speaker 1: It's not like being black, how sexual activists hijacked the
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  Speaker 1: civil rights movement. What a title. So tell us about
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  Speaker 1: the book, brother.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I got that title actually from an article in
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  Speaker 3: The Advocate, which is a leading homosexual newspaper. And after
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  Speaker 3: the 2008 surprise defeat in Proposition 8 in California, where
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  Speaker 3: gay marriage of all places couldn't pass in California. The
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  Speaker 3: advocate had a cover article. And the question was, is
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  Speaker 3: gay the new black? And so that's kind of what
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  Speaker 3: started me to ruminate on that title and actually tried
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  Speaker 3: back in 2010 to to get, to get something like
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  Speaker 3: this published and publishers didn't want to have anything to
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  Speaker 3: do with it, you know?
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  Speaker 2: So this has been a, this has been a.
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  Speaker 3: Long time coming and I think things have progressed so
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  Speaker 3: far that, that now, uh, that the outcry is we
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  Speaker 3: got to say something.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: You know, that, that article, um, is gay, the new black.
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  Speaker 4: Do you think that our society has for the most
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  Speaker 4: part answered that question in the affirmative?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, definitely.
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  Speaker 3: But I think before our society answered that in the affirmative,
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  Speaker 3: those activists recognized the kind of leverage that they could
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  Speaker 3: have if they began to push for that argument.
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  Speaker 2: And that's what they did.
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  Speaker 3: They took that mantle upon themselves and began to push
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  Speaker 3: the argument forward in that way because it made sense.
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  Speaker 3: And it has been incredibly effective. You know, I remember.
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  Speaker 1: You wrote an article, I think it was for the
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  Speaker 1: Gospel Coalition back in 2012. I remember posting it on
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  Speaker 1: Facebook very innocently, in which it may have had the
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  Speaker 1: same title, Gay is Not the New Black or something
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  Speaker 1: like that. And man, some people lost their minds over that.
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  Speaker 1: I had an old friend that I grew up with
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  Speaker 1: who really got exercise. He and I wound up talking
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  Speaker 1: privately about it, and he was just animated and saying,
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  Speaker 1: this is so offensive. that, uh, Vody would say this.
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  Speaker 1: And to me, it was just common sense what you
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  Speaker 1: were saying. I'm not sure TGC would publish that article today,
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  Speaker 1: but you, you got it out there then. And, uh,
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  Speaker 1: you've been working on this a long time and the
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  Speaker 1: book releasing today, you've been trying to advertise the book
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  Speaker 1: for the last several weeks, at least how's that going?
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  Speaker 2: It's been uphill.
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  Speaker 3: There are a number of platforms that have rejected ads
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  Speaker 3: or rejected our request to promote ads.
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  Speaker 2: There's been a shadow ban on our ads.
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  Speaker 3: I was telling you earlier, one of the things that
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  Speaker 3: we posted on Facebook about it, and we have hundreds
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  Speaker 3: of thousands of followers on Facebook.
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  Speaker 2: But it had three comments.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's usually several times that many people just come
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  Speaker 3: on to blast me about.
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  Speaker 1: Whatever it is.
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  Speaker 3: So, yeah, it's been interesting to see that. But it's
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  Speaker 3: not surprising, you know, when fault lines came out. I
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  Speaker 3: had the experience of going into bookstores. Of course, Faultline
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  Speaker 3: debuted as a national bestseller. And so I went into
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  Speaker 3: the bookstore and, you know, the bookstore shall remain nameless.
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  Speaker 2: Barnes and Noble.
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  Speaker 3: I went into the bookstore with my family and we
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  Speaker 3: walked in and we go over there and they got
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  Speaker 3: all the bestsellers, you know, up in the front of
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  Speaker 3: the store. And there are books that are behind mine
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  Speaker 3: on the bestsellers list that are, that are up there.
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  Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh, okay. Well, maybe we're on the
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  Speaker 3: other side. Then I go and look, you know, with
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  Speaker 3: the alphabetical and I don't see it. So I go
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  Speaker 3: up to the desk and I ask them, you know,
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  Speaker 3: do you carry this book, Fault Lines? They look in
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  Speaker 3: the computer and they said, yeah, we have two copies
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  Speaker 3: in the back. And so, yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 2: Two copies in the back of a national bestseller.
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  Speaker 3: Well, if that message was a problem, then this one
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  Speaker 3: is going to be much more of a problem.
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  Speaker 1: I just want to know this. So whenever people order
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  Speaker 1: your book, does it come wrapped in a brown paper wrapping,
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  Speaker 1: you know, so that there's no title on it or.
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  Speaker 2: Anything like that? We ought to. Yeah, yeah, we ought to.
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  Speaker 1: Well, man, that's tragic that that's happening to you. And
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  Speaker 1: so what can we do about it? Well, here's what
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  Speaker 1: you can do about it. Go buy Vody's book. And
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  Speaker 1: then advertise it. Announce that you've done that. Put it
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  Speaker 1: on all your social media accounts. Because there are forces
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  Speaker 1: at work that hate the message of Christianity, that hate
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  Speaker 1: the message of sanity, what 10 minutes ago was common
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  Speaker 1: sense in our society. And so the more that you
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  Speaker 1: can purchase this book, publicize the fact that you're reading
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  Speaker 1: this book, leave reviews of this book on whatever platforms
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  Speaker 1: you purchase it from, the better it will be to
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  Speaker 1: help overcome these intentional efforts to try to squelch it.
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  Speaker 4: And that's what we have to do today. So I
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  Speaker 4: encourage you to do that. This is for our new
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  Speaker 4: national religion. This is the holiest season of the year.
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  Speaker 4: And so what do we as Christians who don't share
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  Speaker 4: the national religion, what do we do? We ought to
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  Speaker 4: push back against it. So I think it would be
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  Speaker 4: great for every Christian, if they can, to buy the
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  Speaker 4: book and read the book during June and to talk
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  Speaker 4: about it and to talk about the fact that they're
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  Speaker 4: reading the book. just to push back against the messaging
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  Speaker 4: that is continually being crammed into our eyes and into
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  Speaker 4: our minds, into our hearts.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, make a great gift for this month, you know,
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  Speaker 1: just buy some extra copies and give them away.
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  Speaker 4: Well, as you know, this month is June and it
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  Speaker 4: is Pride Month, and we are very proud of what
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  Speaker 4: the Lord has done in us in creating us male
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  Speaker 4: and female. And so for this month, we are doing
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  Speaker 4: a special. For anyone who joins the Founders Alliance membership,
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  Speaker 4: we are giving away The Beauty of the Binary by
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  Speaker 4: Luke Griffo. Male and female, he created them. Just go
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  Speaker 4: to founders.org slash give, and you can join at any
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: level in the fam, and we will send you a
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  Speaker 4: copy of The Beauty of the Binary.
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  Speaker 1: So brother, you've been working on this book a long time. And, um,
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  Speaker 1: as you mentioned, the article that you read after prop
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  Speaker 1: eight passed surprisingly in California, that, uh, caused you to think, okay,
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  Speaker 1: here's the play. Here's what's going on. They're trying to
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  Speaker 1: tag this as a civil rights issue, and they've done that.
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  Speaker 1: How should Christians think about this? And why is it
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  Speaker 1: important that we understand some of the history that you
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  Speaker 1: bring in, as well as the theology and the biblical
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  Speaker 1: exegesis that you do toward the back, which is worth
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  Speaker 1: the price of the book alone? But why should Christians
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  Speaker 1: be mindful of the play, of what's been done to us,
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  Speaker 1: how we have been brought to desensitization and being then
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  Speaker 1: jammed and then bringing full conversion and celebration. Why is
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  Speaker 1: that important for us to understand?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's important for us to understand because
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  Speaker 3: it happened, because it worked. You're bringing up the information
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  Speaker 3: from the book After the Ball. I deal with that
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  Speaker 3: in a couple of different places in the book. You know,
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  Speaker 3: these two Harvard professors, Kirk and Mattson, write a book
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  Speaker 3: in 1989, After the Ball. The subtitle is How America
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  Speaker 3: Will Overcome Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the
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  Speaker 3: Decade of the 90s. If you read the book today,
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  Speaker 3: it's hard to get your hands on it. But if
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  Speaker 3: you read the book today, it reads like history. It
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  Speaker 3: just you have to remind yourself that this was written
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  Speaker 3: in 1989 before any of this was done. And the
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  Speaker 3: strategy that they outlined, the strategy that you said.
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  Speaker 2: It's first desensitized, right? Overwhelm us with images. And then
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  Speaker 2: it's jamming.
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  Speaker 3: Jamming is causing that what they call psychic confusion in us,
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  Speaker 3: you know, reducing the reward that we would normally have
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  Speaker 3: by taking the position that we have. So you do
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  Speaker 3: that by, for example, equating being opposed to homosexuality or
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  Speaker 3: same sex marriage. with being a Nazi or a skinhead
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  Speaker 3: or something like that so that people are always apologizing,
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  Speaker 3: so that pastors, when they preach on homosexuality, don't do
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  Speaker 3: the same thing they would do with any other sin.
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  Speaker 3: They spend the first quarter of the message apologizing for
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  Speaker 3: what's about to come, right? And then the last one, conversion,
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  Speaker 3: is about turning people into allies.
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  Speaker 2: And we've seen that.
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  Speaker 3: And a lot of parents talk about their kids coming
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  Speaker 3: home from school parroting these ideas and condemning their parents,
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  Speaker 3: condemning their church for having wrong ideas on homosexuality and
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  Speaker 3: transgenderism and all the rest. And so I think it's
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  Speaker 3: important for us to recognize that strategy, especially because it's
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  Speaker 3: still being done.
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  Speaker 2: Pedophilia is undergoing the same thing. progression.
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  Speaker 3: We changed the name of it, just like we went
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  Speaker 3: from sodomy to homosexuality, you know, to gay. We changed
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  Speaker 3: the name of it. And now we're not pedophiles. We're
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  Speaker 3: minor attracted persons, right? We're maps or no maps, non-offending
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  Speaker 3: minor attracted persons. And also that is considered a sexual orientation.
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  Speaker 3: And these people are considered sexual minorities. Well, if you
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  Speaker 3: recognize how the game has been played, you see that
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  Speaker 3: we're marching toward the same kind of acceptance of that
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  Speaker 3: ideology as has been gained by other ideologies. So we
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  Speaker 3: need to be aware of this. And then finally, we
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  Speaker 3: need to be able to give an answer. This is
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  Speaker 3: about giving an answer in the marketplace of ideas. And
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  Speaker 3: we've got to know how the game is played. We've
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  Speaker 3: got to know what's going on around us, what has
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  Speaker 3: gone on. and we we've got to be able to
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  Speaker 3: give an answer and finally i'll say we've got to
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  Speaker 3: protect our children and and that that's what's been terrible
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  Speaker 3: in all this both in terms of you know them
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  Speaker 3: being sucked into this ideology in these movements um and
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  Speaker 3: also you know in terms of them just having their
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  Speaker 3: theological world turned upside down by this movement yeah.
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  Speaker 4: I can't agree more with that you know Who was
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  Speaker 4: the San Francisco men's gay choir or gay men's choir, you.
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  Speaker 1: Know, saying we'll convert your children.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah. And that's I mean, our children are the most
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  Speaker 4: vulnerable amongst us and they are specifically targeted because they
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  Speaker 4: can be converted. They can be changed. And I think
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  Speaker 4: many Christian parents and a lot of conservative parents have
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  Speaker 4: just kind of had their brains turned off to how
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  Speaker 4: vulnerable their children are. how targeted their children are, how
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  Speaker 4: easy it is to get into their minds and to
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  Speaker 4: get into their hearts and to change the way that
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  Speaker 4: they think about these things. And what they do is
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  Speaker 4: they'll say things like this, we're going to convert your children,
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  Speaker 4: but they're just trying to tweak our, oh, you know,
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  Speaker 4: you guys think we're serious, we're not really serious, when
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  Speaker 4: they absolutely are serious about these things.
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  Speaker 2: We live in a very dangerous world. And we see this,
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  Speaker 2: we see this especially in.
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  Speaker 3: The queer and trans movements where there is a proliferation just,
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  Speaker 3: you know, of young people who are identifying this way.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: We see the transgender movement that is basically a social
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  Speaker 3: contagion among our young children. These things are growing at
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  Speaker 3: breakneck speed and it's happening in large part in our schools.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: And so, yeah, we do need to be aware of this.
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  Speaker 3: We do need to know, you know, what's happening, why
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  Speaker 3: it's happening, how it's happening. And my goal with this
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: book is to sound the alarm and not just to
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: sound the alarm, but also to make an argument for
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  Speaker 3: the biblical truth in regard to sexuality and marriage.
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  Speaker 1: You know, there's so many fronts to this battle as well.
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  Speaker 1: You cite Christopher Rufo's some of his research about what's
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: going on in our schools, kindergarten, first, second grade, they're
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: being groomed. They are being groomed with curricula that has
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: been specifically designed by the proponents of drag queen story hour,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: which is a big deal and comes in the public's
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: libraries and such. But there's curricula that is designed to
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  Speaker 1: confuse children to, Say, well, you know, I can be
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  Speaker 1: whatever I want to be, a boy, a girl or
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: a dog or a cat or whatever. And that just
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: sets them up then for these folks who are determined
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: to queer America. And one of the things you do, Votie,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: in your book is you talk about the LGBTQIA2S +.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Did I get them all?
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  Speaker 2: For today, for today you did.
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  Speaker 1: The plus, you know, the plus is the key there.
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  Speaker 2: But you talk to an unknown God. That's right. That's right.
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  Speaker 1: You know, God to infinity. And you talk about the
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: self-contradictory nature of those various symbols in the alphabet that
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: it's I wonder how they can continue to fly under
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: the multicolored banners that we see. Can you unpack that
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  Speaker 1: a little bit?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. And we do.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, even from the beginning, even before we had
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: all of the alphabets, when it was just lesbians and
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: gays and bisexuals, historically lesbians and homosexual men have not
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: seen eye to eye. They have been very much at
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  Speaker 3: odds with each other historically. And then the transgender movement
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  Speaker 3: comes in, um, The L's and the G's have been
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  Speaker 3: saying for a long time, this is biological. They've been,
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  Speaker 3: you know, funding fraudulent research, brain studies, pheromone studies, you know,
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  Speaker 3: all of these studies to try and demonstrate.
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  Speaker 2: That it's biology. There's a gay gene. Yes, there's a
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  Speaker 2: gay gene.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, they've been trying to prove that we are
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: legitimate because it's biology. Well, transgender movement comes along and
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  Speaker 3: says biology means nothing. And they're part of the same team.
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  Speaker 3: And then we have intersex, which is a– these are
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  Speaker 3: people with genuine biological endocrinological– however you say that.
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  Speaker 2: You know?
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: And so they've got these real issues, these real medical issues, right? Well,
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  Speaker 3: how do you lump them into– this ideological movement, that's
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: not ideological at all. And the key to this, if
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  Speaker 3: you want to understand how all this works together, you
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: look at the new Pride Progress flag. So the new
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: Pride Progress flag, you have the old gay flag, which
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: is the rainbow, right? They've added the chevron on the side.
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  Speaker 3: And these chevrons are You know, white, pink, blue. So
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  Speaker 3: we're bringing in the transgender movement with the chevrons. But
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: then you have brown and black. What is that for?
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  Speaker 3: It's for brown and black people. They're saying out loud
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: what it is that unites them.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: It is the same cultural Marxist idea. It is the
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: same oppression. paradigm. It's the same.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: Idea that there is no God, there is no truth,
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: and there is no, you know, there are no moral absolutes.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: All this is is cultural hegemony. And we are all
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: being oppressed by the same cultural hegemony. The inclusion of
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: those brown and black stripes tell the entire story.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: The annual Southern Baptist Convention meeting is scheduled for June
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: 2024 in Indianapolis. On June 11th, which is the Tuesday
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: of that convention meeting, Founders Ministries and the Center for
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Baptist Leadership are going to sponsor a free lunch for
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: those who are willing to participate to come and to
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: meet people like Mike Law and Megan Basham and Dusty
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Devers and others as we consider the Southern Baptist Convention
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: at the crossroads. And in conjunction with other ministries, Founders
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: is going to be giving away this book by Joe Rigney.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: We interviewed Joe a few weeks ago on the podcast.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: You can find that if you go and look for it.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: But this book by Joe is Leadership and Emotional Sabotage,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Resisting the Anxiety that Will Wreck Your Family, Destroy Your Church,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: and Ruin the World. We believe so strongly in the
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: message of this book that we're giving them away, but
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: they do cost us to give away. And so if
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: you would like to partner with us to get this
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: book in the hands as many Southern Baptist pastors as possible,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: we'll be giving them out at the SBC. There's a
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: link in the notes where you can donate to help us.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: And every $ 5 that you give, we will give away
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: two books. So if you think of some pastors that
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: you know would benefit from this, And you think, well, man,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: I'd like to sponsor in their name, giving away this book.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: We would love to have your support so that we
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: can distribute this book far and wide. I've thought about this.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: If you were to, say, take a hundred babies and
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: put them side by side, let's say that you're a baby.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: I'm a baby in that hundred mix. You know, they
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: could look at you and they say, well, that's a
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: black baby. They can look at me and say, well,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: that's a white baby. But they couldn't look at any
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: of them and say, oh, well, that's a lesbian baby.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: That's a homosexual baby. And they could do blood studies
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: on you and on me and ancestral studies and all,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: and they could confirm ethnicity. You can't do that. So
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: to say that this is the new black, that this
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: is somehow tantamount to the kinds of things that needed
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: to be addressed in the civil rights movement, it's a play.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: It's a ploy.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: It really is. That flag is probably the ugliest thing
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: I've ever seen. I think it's probably the abomination of
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: desolation that Jesus talks about in the Olivet Discourse. It's
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: hard to imagine how they can get so many people
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: to follow that when that's their symbol.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: Ugly flag.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: But the answer to that is, right, how do you
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: get so many people to follow that? The answer is
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: the critical social justice movement. You know, when I wrote
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: Fault Lines, I came on and talked about Fault Lines.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: I talked about this train. A lot of people have
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: used this illustration, right, that the social justice movement is
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: a train and it has many boxcars. And people were
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: trying to get onto the boxcar of racial justice or
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: whatever and ignore all these other boxcars that come along
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: with it. And this sexual minority boxcar, along with the
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: climate change boxcar and the immigrant open borders boxcar, these
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: are all part of the same train. And I'm telling you,
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: the brown and black Stripes on that, that shimmer on
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: that flag tells the story. And that's why I titled
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: the book. It's not like being black because that's the play.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: That's, that's really good insight. And one of the things
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: that all of these movements have highlighted, especially I think
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: during the COVID years, we got it put, you know,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: on steroids in some ways is just how ill equipped
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: modern evangelicals are to think about and address these things.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: And there seems to be a couple of fronts on this,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: and I'd be interested in your take on it. One's political,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: and you deal with that. You deal with Romans 13
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: in your book. The other is related and more expansive, theological,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: in that we haven't thought deeply enough about law and gospel.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: And so often when Christians do try to address these issues,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: they try to address them on the basis of something
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: other than God's Word, you know, on love, without love
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: being defined or on perhaps just, you know, this is
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: the way we've always done things and this is disruptive.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: And they're just not going to thus saith the Lord
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: because they're not really sure how to do that.
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: Empathy, niceness.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. I mean, love, you know, and again, in your book,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: you talk about this, that in the name, when you
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: have politicians and liberals saying that we ought to heed
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: the great commandment that Jesus gave us to love others, your.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Neighbor, loved one.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: You know, I mean, you know, okay, the church has done.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Drop the ball.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: When Gavin Newsom puts that on a billboard.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're in trouble, man.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: We're in big trouble, and it's time for God's people,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: especially shepherds, pastors. We've got to address these things and
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: not be moved. Yes, we are to love our neighbor
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: as we love ourselves, but we've got to know what
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: love is. And Yes, when the laws of the land
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: are handed down to us, we've got to be respectful
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: of our civil magistrates. The Bible doesn't change, but that
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean we genuflect to every law. There's a time
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: in which we say it is not right. This is wrong,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: and we will not bow to your tyrannical laws. And
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: I don't think the church is equipped for this. So, brother,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: talk about those things. First of all, talk about the
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: political angle of this, if you would.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's interesting that a few years ago,
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: you and I did that pre-conference session on Christian nationalism.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: And one of the things that we tried to communicate
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: during that is that this is another play, right? The
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: whole idea of white Christian nationalism is another play and
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: it's another ploy to sort of shame us, you know,
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: keep us in our place, you know, keep us out
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: of the marketplace of ideas. And so we need to
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: be aware of that. We weren't prepared for that. We
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: weren't prepared for, you know, how to do public theology,
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: you know, plug there for IOPT. And we're paying for it,
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: you know, we're paying for it now. But I think
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: there's something else. I think, you know, a generation ago,
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: the church growth movement at its apex, we decided that
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: our greatest good was numerical growth at any cost.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Find out what people want and what people like and.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: Figure out how to give people what they want and
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: what they like so that they will like us, so
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: that they will come to church, so that our numbers
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: will grow. And progressively things were watered down in the
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: name of giving people what they like. It's no wonder
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: that we began to talk about how, you know, homosexuality
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: is what it is because the church just hasn't been
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: nice enough. That the problems with, you know, racial justice,
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: this and the other, it's just that the church hasn't
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: been aware enough.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: In other words, the church hasn't been listening enough to.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: The culture to get its cues from the culture so
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: that we can know what it is that they need
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: from us in order to like us. And the culture
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: has continued to demand more and more and more. And
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: we've continued to give more and more and more. And
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: now here we are where there's a generation of ministers
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: who don't know how with doing it and who condemn people,
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: consistently condemn people who do it.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I think about David French and what he has said,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: you know, about Willa Burgerfell's law of the land. And
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: he knows many stable homosexual couples that have good marriages.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: And we wouldn't want to disrupt that.
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: My eyes can't roll far enough back in my head.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's crazy to me. And again, I want
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: to speak to pastors. Brothers, if you're listening to David French,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: people like him, Russ Moore, you need to stop. because
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: they don't have a clue. They've given up the word
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: of God. And somehow we have forgotten that civil magistrates
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: have their authority vested in them from God and that
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: they only do what they're commissioned by God to do
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: to the degree that they stay in their lane and
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: they administer righteous laws and they promote what is good
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: and they punish what is evil. And when they start
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: trying to redefine good and evil for us or define
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: love for us, contrary to what God says, then God's
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: people have to call them out on that and not
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: be swept along with it. And I agree. We've got
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: people sitting in our pews all across the West who
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: are doing their jobs, working hard, and they're being shoved
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: by the cultural winds into genuflecting to these godless ideologies.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: And the shepherds of their souls are not offering them
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: any help, not helping them to think rightly about the
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: word and how to to stand firm in this evil day.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: And so, again, the price of the book is worth
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: that last section that you address these things.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: And I think people need to recognize as well that
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: this is our Caesar Islam. For a long time, the
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: argument was, you know, we're not bothering you. This doesn't
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: have anything to do with you. We're not hurting anybody.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: You know, you can, you know, whatever. But now they're
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: saying bake the cake.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: Bake the cake or lose your bakery. Now they're saying,
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: you know, bear false witness. This is a man in
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: front of you, but you will say that's a woman.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: You will call him she, her. You will bear false witness.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: You will violate the commandment of your God. Say Caesar
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: is Lord.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: They now say marriage is between, you know, a man
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: and another man or a woman and another woman.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: I liken it to the government, you know, putting on my.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: that I'm eight feet tall, right?
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, the government can put on my
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: license that I'm eight feet tall, you know, and I
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: can have a legal document there saying that I'm eight
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: feet tall, but they will never change the reality. The
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: government can give you a license that says this man
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: and that man are married. But it will never change
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: the reality that that's not marriage. And as Christians, we
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: have to recognize that we're not just being asked to
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: be tolerant. We're not just being asked to be loving.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: We're being asked to recognize Caesar as Lord. and say
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: that he controls reality. And if he says up is down,
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: we say yes, sir. If he says a man is
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: a woman, we say yes, sir. And if he says
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: two men can be married, two women can be married,
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: we say yes, sir.
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: Thank you for tuning in to this episode of The
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: Sword and the Trowel. I just want to make you
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: aware that every order that you place this June at press.founders.org,
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: everyone will get one of these vintage copies of the
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: Founders Journal. This is coming from spring 2001, titled Ready
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: for Reformation.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Dr.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: Tom Nettles has a great article in here. I definitely
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: recommend you grab a book that you've been looking at
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: this month so you can get this vintage copy of
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: the Founders Journal as well. Go to press.founders.org.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: I think it might have been in that 2012 article
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: or perhaps it's in your book. You used an analogy
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: that I thought was so helpful. It resonates so well.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: It would be like a pacifist saying that he is
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: being treated illegitimately. He's being not given full dignity because
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: he's not allowed to join the military and not fight.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: And he wants to join the military and not fight.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: And so they have to start a special branch of
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: the military for pacifists that you can wear the uniform
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: and not fight. I mean, that's what's going on here
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: with the whole argument for marriage.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: And not only that, but just the implications of this.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: We're not paying attention to the implications of this. Once
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: we've said, that marriage is just a relationship between two
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: people who love each other, right? If the male-female distinction
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: doesn't matter, then why does the numerosity requirement.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Matter, right? Why two? Why two? Why not three?
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: And we see polygamy and polyamory growing in popularity. We
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: see TV shows about it and movies about it and
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: all this. So again, eventually, we're going to have to
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: go down that road. If we don't go down that road,
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: what moral argument could we possibly make? And then to people.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: what happens when I want to marry a non-person? And
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: before people say, you know, I'm being ridiculous in the book,
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: I have several examples of people who have gotten married
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: in marriage ceremonies to non-persons, right? To animals and their
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: dog or whatever it's happened. And if your argument is,
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: That's ridiculous. We would never accept it. I say 50
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: years ago, that was same-sex marriage.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: It was ridiculous, and we'd never accept it. 20 years ago,
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: it was same-sex marriage. Yeah, absolutely.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: And all this highlights the need for Christians to think
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: biblically and to not be moved off of the Bible,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: which is what has happened. I mean, love is love.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: And all of these arguments that get thrown at us,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: and we get a little intimidated by them. And God's
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: people have to just return to the simplicity that is
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: in Christ, to what the word actually says, to recognize
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: that government exists by God for God. Sexuality exists by
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: God for God. Marriage exists by God for God. And
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: so when people start giving their opinions and their demands
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: about these different things that contradict what God clearly says
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: in this word, Christian people have one responsibility, and that's
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: basically to stand up and say, uh-uh. This is what
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: the Word says. So, man, I'm sympathetic. We've had them
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: in our church with people who have been coerced on
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: the job and some in governmental positions into you're either
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: going to say this, you're going to do this, or
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: you're going to suffer. You're not going to get advanced,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: or you're going to lose your job, or you're going
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: to have some other penalty to pay. What counsel do
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: you have to churches today? to church members, but especially
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: to pastors, knowing that this is the day we live in.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: What would you say to those brothers?
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: You know, in the end, in the book, I'm encouraging
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: believers to prepare to pay the cost. This is going
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: to cost us. People are going to lose jobs. People
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: are going to lose friendships. People are going to have
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: rifts in their family. This is going to cost us.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: You know, there's big hubbub, you know, a while back
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: over going to a same sex wedding. And Alistair Begg said,
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: he said, and everybody else, you know, came out and,
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: you know, on this.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Side or that side or whatever. And.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: What I kept bringing to people's attention and pushing back
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: with was two things. Number one, um, you know, just,
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: just do the sin substitute test, right? If you, if
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: you substitute any other sin, are you asking the same question? Uh, but,
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: but then number two, um, ask yourself, is that going
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: to be all? And are you going to go to
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: the wedding? And then they say, you know what, we
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: were wrong about you.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Boom. You're good.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: Or will they ask for more and more and more
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: until you are backed into a corner and finally have
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: to say, I can't go there. And then they'll say, see,
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: I knew it. It's the same thing with anti-racism, right?
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: You have to do the work forever, perpetually. You're never
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: finished doing the work. And the moment you slip up, it's, see,
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: I told you. I knew, you know? And so we've
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: got to decide now. that it's worth it. We've got
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: to decide that Jesus meant what he said. When he
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: said that we were to deny ourselves and take up
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: our cross and follow him.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: And we've got to be willing to do that.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: And we've got to be willing to have one another's back,
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: you know, as that price is being paid. But there
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: is no easy answer to this. There is no way
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: around it. We've got to go through it. And right
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: now we've got to stand up against it. And then finally,
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: I'll say this. What's being lost in all of this
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: is that there are people who are hurting. There are
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: people who are literally dying, right? in all of this.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: There are children whose lives are being torn apart in
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: all of this. A new study came out. It was
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: on the NIH, the National Institutes of Health website. We
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: have new numbers in now. People who go through these
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: therapies and treatments and surgeries for gender-affirming care are 12
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: times more likely to commit suicide. It's the exact opposite
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: of what we've been told. We've been told you need
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: to go forward with the gender affirming care so that
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: they don't commit suicide. And now we're saying they go
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: forward with the gender affirming care, they're 12 times more
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: likely to commit suicide. That same research study, its conclusion was...
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: That because of that, we need to do a better
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: job with psychological follow-up afterwards. Not we need to repent
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: and stop doing it, right? So people are actually being harmed.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: And we care about people. We care about souls. We
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: care about people who are at enmity with God. We
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: care about people who are made in the image of God.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: And we desire for those people to come to know
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: God as their Savior. And so, again, marriage is a
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: picture of the relationship between Christ and the bride whom
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: he redeems. So this is absolutely a gospel issue, as
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: people love to say, you know. So, I mean, I
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: think we really do have to be prepared to stand up,
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: count the costs, and pay the price.
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: Tom and I wanted to invite you to come and
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: join us down here in sunny Southwest Florida, January 23rd
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: through the 25th for our National Founders Conference. This next
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: theme for next year is going to be Revive Us,
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: Oh Lord, a whole conference on revival.
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: Dr.
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: Tom Askell, Dr. Bodie Bauckham, Jeff Johnson, Dr. Joel Beeky
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: will be some of the speakers that will be there
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: with us. It's going to be a wonderful time as
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: the Founders National Conferences always are of fellowship and growing
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: in the word. So go to founders.org, look at some
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: of the information on the conference. We'd love to have
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: you here. And if you'd like more information, you can
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: see some of that at the end of this podcast. Undoubtedly,
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: this is where the battle is right now. And it's
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: where the battle is. ought to be raging the fiercest. Unfortunately,
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: I think that we've pulled back from this fight and
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: we've decided we're going to fight on other issues that
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: are not necessarily as important as this issue. And as
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: you say, it's a gospel issue. And it's also, you know,
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: generally speaking, the way, the law of God is the
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: way of blessing. When one walks according to the law
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: of God, this is Psalm 1, one is blessed. And
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: when we start to stray from God's law, well, what
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: we're doing is we're living in the world that God
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: created and in the way that he did not create
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: us to. We're not living according to the rules of
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: the operator's manual of the life that the Lord.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Has given us.
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: And so when we start eroding the legitimacy of marriage
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: by saying that a man and a man can be
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: married and a woman and a woman can be married, well,
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: marriage really has no more meaning, which then means the
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: family has no more meaning, which means society in and
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: of itself doesn't really have much meaning. It's just all individualistic.
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: Then it becomes anarchy and it becomes tyranny. Like, This
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: is such a big issue. It is a gospel issue,
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: but it's also a love your neighbor. This is the
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: law of God issue as well. And Christians need to
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: be speaking on it, speaking at this issue from both angles.
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: Like the Lord has given us what is good and
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: he showed us how we ought to live. And if
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: you've not lived this way, but you've lived this way instead,
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: he offers forgiveness to the one who sincerely repents and
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: trusts in him. And this needs to be our message.
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: And we need to be loud about this.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: And we will not be if we don't understand what
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: love is, because we have been told to use pronoun
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: hospitality as loving. And so if a man wants you
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: to call him or her, then it's loving for you
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: to do so. When in reality, all you're doing is
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: participating in that person's delusions and lies, and you're not
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: loving them because love rejoices in the truth. And if
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: you want people to know God, you can't keep leading
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: them by the hand or standing by silently as they're
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: on a pathway that denies the reality of the God
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: who created the world. This is one of the things
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: where I think evangelicals have been so.
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: We've made ourselves very easily manipulated.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: We think that we can have redemption without having reality.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: You think you can live in an unreal world and
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: deny reality and still have Jesus. Well, he's a real
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Jesus for real sinners. It's real salvation. And if you
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: deny reality, well, then whatever it is you're grasping for,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: you think you have, you don't, you miss. And this
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: is where we've got to get clarity. God's people got
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: to think rightly. And for me, man, I see this
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: as clearly as I ever have. It comes right back
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: down to God's law and God's gospel. God loves his
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: law as much as he loves his gospel. And if
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: we're not willing to say, this is what the Lord says,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: this is what is right, this is what is good,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: this is what is true, this is what is just,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: and think that we can somehow love by preaching the gospel,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: by denying that law, we are confusing people at best
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: and at worst, Votie, as you said, We're leading them
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: into a life of just absolute dissolution and destruction and
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: humiliation and death. I mean, the suicide rates you mentioned
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: are tragic. So your book is a wonderful tool, a
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: wonderful antidote to the kind of moral anarchy that is
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: raging in our day. And again, the treatment of how
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: we got here, the history of of it and examining
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: this whole sexually perverted era in which we live and
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: the designs of those who have pushed us into this
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: era and then saying, but here's what the word of
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: God says. This is so, so helpful. It's the kind
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: of thing that founders exist for. We're trying always to
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: help people not lose the gospel where it has been
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: assumed or lost to recover it and to see church's
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: reformed along biblical lines of God's law and God's gospel
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: to stand firm. And man, you've supplied us with another
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: excellent tool in this effort.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you, brothers. I really appreciate that. I mean,
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: it's sometimes difficult. I don't know why the Lord keeps
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: leading me down these roads. I would love to just
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: write a book that It just makes everybody happy.
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: But it just doesn't happen.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you troubler in Israel, you. But, man, we're grateful
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: for you, grateful for your ministry, your family, and your
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: stewardship of gifts. We're very grateful for that, and we
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: look forward to getting this book widely promoted. And, again,
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: I encourage you to go buy it. It's available today,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: so you can just go get it anywhere. Leave a
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: review after you've read it. and promote it on social
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: media because, as you heard Bodie say, the book has
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: been banned, and some of the ads, they wouldn't even
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: run on social media. Others have been shadow banned, so
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: it's up there, but they're not letting it get any engagement.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: Let's do what we can to help promote this book,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: which will be so very useful to God's people and
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: to shepherds of God's people, but also to those who
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: are not yet believers in Christ. If they'll read it
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: with an open mind, they will see the gospel in it.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: And God can use that gospel from his word to
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: enlighten them and to bring them to faith in Christ. So, Vody,
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: thank you, brother. We love you and are grateful to
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: God for you. Appreciate you giving your time to us today.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: And we look forward to seeing how the Lord will
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: use this book.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Thank you, brothers. I appreciate it.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for joining us today on the Sword
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: and Trowel And we hope this has been helpful to you.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: If it has, we encourage you to like it and
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: to subscribe on your favorite platform. That helps us with
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: the various algorithms that people have to rely upon as
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: they're searching for podcasts. And also pass it around to
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: those that you think might be helped by what Vody
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: has had to say today and the promotion of this
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: new book.