Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.329: Streamlining Sexual Wellness of Women ft. SMILE MAKERS

Transcript

E.329: Streamlining Sexual Wellness of Women ft. SMILE MAKERS · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, so before this episode starts, I wanted to preface it because I am so excited about this episode.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: I love this topic.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that this is the best time ever before to be talking about truly women's health, women's sexuality, and the importance of highlighting it.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: I want to give a huge shout out to Beauty Independent's Claire, who is just working so hard to bring light to this.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Claire, you are phenomenal.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Your work is phenomenal.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're an amazing journalist.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone listening, if you have not already, go check out Beauty Independent.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um they're just, there's some wonderful articles that they've written about this as well.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I am trying to do my part as well, you know, by bringing you guys some great episodes with leaders in this area, one of which is SmileMakers, which I am going to be interviewing here in this episode.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I just want to say, you know, if you're a woman and you're listening in, be proud of your sexual wellness.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, speak about it.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to your neighbors, talk to your friends, your colleagues, just be open about it.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we have been so cooped up for so long that it's time to break that tape and just come out and say, you know what, we are here, and you're not going to keep oppressing us in our right to talk about this stuff.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't want to sound like I'm preaching, but it's like, you know, the more and more that we are diving into this area with, you know, what recently occurred with Roe v.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Wade being reversed, and now with women feeling ashamed all the time about this kind of stuff.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, think about the worldwide impact of not speaking about sexual wellness, not educating our women and our young girls about what it means to be proud of their bodies, to be proud of who they are.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: That is a huge impact globally that is occurring, and we have got to do what we can to change that.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, with that being said, enjoy this episode.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely give some feedback, to you know, share this episode with your friends.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, do whatever you can to spread the word, is my point.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope you guys love it, because it was a really, really great conversation, and I really enjoyed it, and I welcome any brands out there who want to come on the show and uh, you know, just accelerate this movement.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you guys so much for listening.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love you guys so much.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: You're the reason we are here, and I love bringing you episodes that are just new and just different and interesting, hopefully.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, guys, stay tuned, and thank you again.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is Ekta, and I have a lovely guest with me.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: I am excited to be talking about this brand because I am a huge advocate for everything that has to do with women's health, everything that has to do with products that make our lives easier.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the founder of SmileMakers, Cecile Ganou.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show, Cecile.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to host you.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks a lot, Ecta, for having me here.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really excited.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: We've been talking about doing this for a while.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm glad we finally found the time to do this.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Likewise, yes.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very, very excited.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the brand is absolutely wonderful.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's actually ahead of its time.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to get started and ask you like, you know, what got you interested in this um category of female health and you know, just wellness, and how did the whole journey begin?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: So the whole journey began 10 years ago, actually.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: And when we started to look at the topic of um sexual wellness and more specifically, sexual wellness for people with vulvas, what we realized uh was twofold.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: On the one hand, um vibrators and lubricants, vibrators specifically, like they were already very widespread.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like in the US, more than one out of two women had already used the vibrators in their lives.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm using the word woman purposefully because at the time the studies were really done with that uh terminology.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so it was a very widespread um usage already.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: But two-thirds of non-users were actually curious to try.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: So the market uh for non-users who wanted to get into that category was already quite massive, but was absolutely not addressed with the offering on the shelf, the quality of the products, and the distribution strategy uh as well.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: And on the second hand, when we really looked um in more details at the topic of sexual pleasure and how it is connected to our health, uh, we found a lot of uh scientific studies documenting the um mental and physical health benefits of sexual wellness that have to do with the fact that when we experience sexual pleasure, our body releases a whole cocktail of hormones that have an impact on our mood and um countering the effect of cortisol the stress hormones and therefore like boosting our immunity, boosting our um mood, uh helping us sleep better, um decreasing risk of even some type of cancers or some type of diabetes.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um the use of vibrator has also been positively correlated uh with the some healthy reflexes, like giving yourself self-checks on the breasts and on the vulva, going for gynecological appointments every year.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: So there were a lot of reasons to look at this category as a wellness category, but it was absolutely not approached this way uh 10 years ago.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: So when we started out, the brand it was like, okay, we have a category that is a wellness category.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: And there is a huge market of people with vulvas who want to get into that category, but that just don't relate with the way the products are done today, the way they are marketed, and where they are sold.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do we change that and how do we uh have a much more sane approach to the topic of female pleasure that is not sensationalized, but actually really educated and looking at it from uh the angle of health and wellness.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: So that was really the starting point of the brand.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that makes so much sense to me, Cecil, because honestly, the health and wellness aspect of, you know, um an orgasm, if we can just, you know, just be blunt about it, there's huge benefits here.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm talking about not just the obvious stuff, which is regulating hormones, but it's also really, really helpful for women out there that um suffer from something like PCOS, or if there's some sort of hormonal uh issue that you're dealing with where when it comes to like regulating your periods, um, studies have also found that you know that can be really um aided, like you're you know, you can be really helped by having normal orgasms or regular orgasms.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that actually helps with the regulation of your menstrual cycle and it helps with also how that menstrual cycle proceeds during the month.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, whether if you're somebody who is experiencing very, very painful cramping or you know, something that's going along with uh just not normal periods, this can all be, you know, helped out if you're just practicing a healthy sex routine or you know, self-care routine in this in this way, you know.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's yeah.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that was really like okay to us, what was shocking is that this is a topic where scientifically speaking, there is no reason for such a huge taboo to exist, but there is a huge taboo, and even more so around the topic of female pleasure.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: So the reason why we wanted to change um the category and make it a mainstream category was also to normalize the perception of female pleasure.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it was really important for us, for example, when we started out SmileMakers to bring the category in mainstream retail.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: And we were the first brand in that space to do that.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: It was a tough business decision because it was like, okay, we know that if we want to convince mainstream retailers to start selling vibrators, they're gonna want to be different from adult channels.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: They don't want to be associated with adult channels.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: So if we want to enter that space, that means we're gonna have to say no to adult channels.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: And we did not feel that our brand actually really fitted into adult channels the way they were at the time, because this is a space that has changed a lot as well.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we made the business decision not to sell there and really to focus on opening our mainstream retail, which took years and was a complicated process, but now it's the momentum is there.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it was to be very pragmatic about how do you change mindsets.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: And if you start seeing vibrators sold alongside your shampoo, your skincare, your favorite jeans brand, uh, your yoga mat is going to have an impact about how you perceive this category and how you perceive by extension the topic of female sexuality.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: And this is something that 10 years later we really observe that now the conversations around sex positivity has really grown and reached a much broader audience and has really made its way into everyday life conversations, not everywhere and not for everybody, and it's a work in progress, but the the change is quite dramatic to see.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's actually brilliant that you waited and did it this way because um, you know, I'm gonna be honest, when I was growing up, even as like, you know, in college, when you start like learning about, like, for example, there were stores like Hustler, you know, and those were the stores that everybody went to.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you wanted to buy a you know a vibrator or something similar to that, and it was almost this thing where you know it became not about health, but it became about this totally different idea.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that was not the you know, when I think about it now as a grown woman, I'm I'm sitting here, I'm like, no, this is a very normal part of your life.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that women need to actually, you know, put more time into.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's a part of self-care, it's a part of, you know, just making sure that your body is getting what it needs.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, with hormones, it's very interesting that we're even, you know, discussing this topic because with when you talk about endocrinology, I'm gonna be honest with you, 90% of endocrinology, even the specialists don't know what the hell is going on in the human body in the women's human body, because we regulate our hormones very differently than men do.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I kept bringing up that thing when I said about the menstrual cycle thing, because I'm, you know, it's something that um a lot of women don't understand or realize is that there are other ways that we can take precautionary measures to make sure that one, we're reducing real risk for ovarian cancer, we're reducing the risk of uh, you know, uterine cancer, and all of these things are tied to hormones like oxytocin, and which is one of the hormones that's released when we have an orgasm, you know.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that these facts and these the way that we think about it, it absolutely has changed, like you said.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it has to be something that we're looking at as mainstream, not just taboo, you know.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I like the fact that you said you find that for a lot of endocrinologists, they don't even have the knowledge on um female-specific uh aspects of the topic because this is a challenge that we run into so often when developing the brand.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: So the way we're developing, for example, our products or our content is by we're looking for scientific studies, we're looking for data.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes it's actually really hard to find because it does not exist yet.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like there are questions that we receive, and for us, it's really important that when we bring an answer to our community, it has to be vetted by the scientific community and by sexual health experts.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: And medicine has been so uh shaped towards uh male-bodied people uh that there's a lot of an unknown that remains when it comes to uh even some basic things that are related to female health.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: So what did I uh recently we found that there was an initiative to develop in med school uh trainings around um pelvic floor, uh pelvic health, and that they were developing you know those 3D skeletons, but actually taking into account the fact that it differs from men and women and that even like the bone structures, even of some parts of our body that are away from the pelvic area are different, but that it gets simplified and standardized according that according to male-bodied people, and therefore, like even doctors don't get trained in a way that takes into account the important differences between female-bodied people and male-bodied people.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think that's a really excellent point.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I can tell you, you know, firsthand that the pelvic floor for women, it gets compromised after your first live birth.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's a fact.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for everyone listening, if you're a mother, if you've had, you know, you've carried a pregnancy through and you've delivered, this is something that is a major problem in women that are in the ages around like 30, in their 30s, or you know, um beyond.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the problem here is that your pelvic floor muscles get compromised and they're not as strong anymore.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: So what you're gonna start seeing is stuff like urinary incontinence where you're coughing and it's causing you to leak urine, you know, and these are all tied to the pelvic floor and how strong it is.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And when you are practicing normal sexual health, which is, you know, uh like routine orgasms, routinely maintaining, you know, we call them kegel exercises, you know, in in medicine.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: If you come to a doctor's office and you have a you have some sort of stress incontinence where you're leaking urine, we'll tell you do kegel exercises.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And all that is, is you just bearing down and squeezing really tight and making sure the muscles of your pelvic floor are like, you know, getting stronger.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the easiest ways to do that is to have an orgasm.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you do that, that's exactly what happens.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: The muscles tense up and you're exercising those muscles.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I'm like, you know, why are we not even suggesting that as like a not even, you know, like a treatment or but like just a suggestion from the medical side, right?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Cecile, it's like as a doctor, like you should be telling your patients, like, well, this is proven, you know, to help with pelvic floor muscles.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like we should be suggesting that off the bat.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: So another thing I really wanted to bring up is this must have been a very difficult category to really get off the ground, Cecile.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, honestly, I mean, you're really pioneering something here.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think every time someone does that, there's a lot of hurdles and there's a lot of things to get through.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I want you to tell us, you know, how was it in terms of, you know, getting the brand off the ground, getting it out there in mainstream media, and you know, getting people to really rally behind your cause?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know that it can be, you know, a little difficult to get people to come out of their comfort zone sometimes.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love for you to share that journey.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, thanks for asking.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was um it was hard, it was really hard uh and long, I would say.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it was also very exciting.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it hasn't been painful to do because the reaction that we get from individuals, uh, and I mean by that, individual journalists, buyers, consumers, whenever we explain what we are trying to achieve with the brand, most people, like 99% of the time, people are like, this is so great that you're working to change perception and not just bringing vibrators into mainstream uh retail, but really trying to change the conversations that we can have around sex.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: So we've had from the start massive support, and that has been so important to get us going and going through the hurdles uh of this.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: But we faced a lot of resistance, I would say, um, because we were trying to change perception.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: So we were trying to explain to retailers, for example, who had never carried a category before and who really didn't see how that could fit into their arrangement, sometimes even get offended that we would think they should carry vibrators, to really take the time to change their mind.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: And the fact is that often what we've observed is the people we talk to, uh, for example, at retailers who often are uh female-bodied people, they're really behind the brand submission and they really like the brand, but then they face um resistance inside the organization from top management who are not often uh female-bodied people.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was about to say that's usually men.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're usually men, and they also tend to be more conservative, and um that's where the resistance really came from.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so we had that, so our reflection was like, okay, how do we help those allies that we have in retailers who really believe uh in what we're trying to do?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: How we do we equip them well to go and spread the gospel?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: And how do we also take into account the fact that we're they're gonna have to talk about a category that is related to sex?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it even if they're not talking about their own experience, it is gonna feel personal.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: They are gonna have to put themselves out there.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do we help them approach this in a way that is that feels easy, that feels uh normal, um, and that really fits in, I would say, a business discussion, like something of their everyday life, uh like any other category, like saying, Oh, I've found this new skincare brand that I think we should list, and instead they say, Oh, we found this sexual wellness brand that we think we should list.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it was really about making sure that we could equip them with the right facts and help them understand that it is a wellness category.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Why is it a wellness category?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and the last point on how we've managed to open doors is that from the get-go, really from the very first years of our brand, so we launched in 2012, we started to get a lot of questions from our audience about the products and by extension about the topic of female pleasure, like why can't I get an orgasm with my partner?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, is it normal if I feel pain during sex?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, how do you use this vibrator?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we realized that there was a real lack of sex education on the topic of pleasure, and that if we really wanted to change the conversation on female pleasure, we were gonna have to deliver on sex education.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: We were gonna have to have the right words and the right facts and to bring that out in the open so that that conversation could happen in an educated way and in a less passionate progressism against conservatism way, like to really be a lot more factual and scientific.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: And since the beginning, we started to run workshops and we've been partnering with female health organizations, family planning organizations, student associations.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, in the US, we've done partnerships with student associations in Wesleyan, in Harvard, in UCLA, we've worked with McGill in Canada, uh, NUS in Singapore, um, and universities in Malaysia, Taiwan, Scotland.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: And having this approach uh that is uh really science-backed, really serious, really factual, and the fact that we are able to partner with public organizations has really changed the perception of retailers for us as well.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: They could see us as a really uh reliable company to partner with.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: We had basically street credibility uh in a way, uh, and that put them at ease.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that also means that when we come in, we can work with them to launch that conversation with their audience in a way that they know is going to resonate with people because we're not gonna come in and say have wild sex with these vibrators.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna come in and explain, okay, why is sex an important part of our everyday life?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: How does that contribute to our health?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: And like to really have the story, and then we have the products, and but the products they're just a part of the story.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: The story is a lot bigger and a lot more important and exciting.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it's it's a very I think that there's so much more, you know, than we can even cover in a podcast.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so many layers to this uh concept of normalizing, you know, sexual wellness, whether it's for women, men, um, you know, non-binary uh individuals.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: It just it's a fact of opening up the conversation like we are here and just making people feel comfortable with words like sex uh vibrators, uh, you know, whatever words for you growing up were taboo.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Become comfortable with that because it's not about it, it doesn't have to be taboo.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, with the recent uh what happened, you know, with with the recent roe uh versus Wade overturning, I mean.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think now is a time more than ever that we as a community of people, not just women or men, but just as everyone, we need to start discussing these things.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: We need to, you know, really sit down and think like, what is it that we're doing?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and especially when I think about future generations, it's like, do you really want um, you know, children to grow up in an environment where they feel like, you know, they don't know themselves, they can't express their sexuality, they don't understand their sexuality.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: These are all questions for me that come up.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I know they're broader scale questions, but this all it's all tied down to like small decisions that we make.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And one of them is things like, you know, do your parents feel comfortable in their own home talking about vibrators or discussing that or whatever, you know, whatever that is for you, you know, as an individual.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: My point is just don't be so closed off that you're not even, you know, opening up a discussion or opening up a conversation.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I think your brand is absolutely ahead of its time.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, I want to tell you, I absolutely love the bellarina.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's my favorite, it's a really great product.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful product.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the quality is so good.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the biggest hallmarks um I wanted to cover with you was this quality aspect because I'm not gonna lie, you know, growing up in the 90s, like I mentioned, the only place we could go was Hustler.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember going to Hustler once, and I was like, who would ever want to use some of these?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because the quality of those uh products was just complete trash.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this is just not even, you know, it's like they didn't even consider what they're making, they just kind of did it to you know what I mean.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to talk to you about that in in terms of like what are some of the materials that you wanted to use and like you know, the research that you had to do before you crafted um or engineered the products.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: So, in terms of um approaching the manufacturing um process uh at SmileMaker, so the the same way we wanted to develop a brand by applying the same standards you would apply for distribution and communication as you would for any other wellness brand.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: So we wanted to be sold in the same spaces, we wanted the conversations to happen in the same uh publications, um, Instagram accounts.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: We apply that as well in our manufacturing process.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: So we are not working with traditional vibrator manufacturers.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we work with uh suppliers who also work with brands like Bangan Olifson or Feedbill, Nike Field Band, and we really have strong expert expertise when it comes to high-end consumer electronic goods.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that means that they have a very that they have very high standards for the components that they will source.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: And for the vibrators, we wanted to have a texture that would feel extremely luxurious on the skin, that would feel very smooth, that would be very safe as well, um, and that um would not uh require any animal testing either.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, for that, what we did is that we selected a silicone that we get polish to really create a very smooth uh uh touch on the skin.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: And we use food-grade silicone, which is as safe as baby kitchenware, but does not require animal testing because basically, if you use medical grade silicone, uh it is for products that uh stay in the body.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's over either 30 hours or 30 days.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: But in any case, the your vibrator is not supposed to stay in your body for 30 hours and less even less 30 days.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it doesn't make sense to have medical grade silicone because to have that, you need to test on animals.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: The silicone needs to be tested invasively by injecting it in animals.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, you need medical grade silicone for implants.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: So that was an important criteria for us as well.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and when it comes to how we approach the rest of the development process, so in terms of components, we want to have very safe and high-quality components.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: When it comes to the ergonomics, that's where we get very nerdy and we really dive into the latest research on female anatomy, uh, female pleasure.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, when we developed the ballerina, let's talk about the ballerina since you've mentioned it.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we knew we wanted to work on texture with the ballerina because we had so many excited reactions to the quality of the silicone we were using, where like there is really something that that has to be done uh to explore more the aspect of texture with vibrators.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like the it really changes the experience of the products, and with the ballerina, we wanted to recreate the um firm yet soft touch that you would get from a lover.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what guided the manufacturing process of the silicone with silicon gel inside.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: But for the shapes, it's a very unique shape as well.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it's basically takes the whole palm of the hand and it goes from the pubis all the way to the vaginal entrance.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it stimulates the whole vulva at once.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: In terms of pleasure spots, that means that the clitoral gland is gonna get stimulated, the labia minora, so the inner labia, the outer labia are gonna get stimulated, the entrance of the vagina, which contains a lot of nerve endings as well, is gonna get stimulated, and all of those spots are getting stimulated at once.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it feels very different from what you would get from a clitoral vibrator that's really focused only on the clitoris, for example.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason why we wanted to have that kind of uh stimulations is because the data that we read really suggested that it is gonna feel different because we're gonna basically uh stimulate more nerve-endings at once.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so it's going to feel different from the users.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something that really translated in the feedback that we got.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: I personally sat with like around 20 uh users shortly after the launch to really get their impressions on the product and do like a one-hour interview with each of them.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: And they all really said, I had never tried um that kind of um stimulation before, and it does feel completely different.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: It feels very pampering, it feels like a very erotic massage of the whole exactly what it is.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually very true.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's I was gonna tell you that it's like it feels like it's more relaxing than anything.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a it's a massage feeling, it's not a like, you know, just I don't know, uh any other word to you know use an analogy for.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you're right.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: And and for this, we're gonna look at okay, what's the average distance between the clitoric glands and the entrance of the vagina, uh, the pubic bone and the entrance of the vagina, the average width that you would have between the labia, so that we use those uh anthropometric data to craft the shape and to inform our design decision.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, that's how we approach product development, like a lot of research, and then we consult with sexual health experts.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, with the ballerina, we know that it's a very great product, for example, for people with vulvas who suffer from vaginism.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: So this condition that um makes the vagina have those inventory contractions and that can make any penetration uncomfortable or very painful.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, sexologists in those cases, they really encourage their patients to explore pleasure externally or even to explore pleasure in the rest of the body, not just around the vulva.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but typically the ballerina can be uh very useful for people with vegan estus.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: For people who've given birth recently as well, uh, it's a very soft texture, it's very cushiony.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: So even if there is scarring, it can really create a very gentle touch to start stimulating the area very gently and not feel overwhelmed because it's not a hard texture at all.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's very soft.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, for partner sex between uh a vulva owner and a penis haver, it has a very natural shape that can fit in the hands.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it can be used to have clitoral stimulation during penetrative sex, it can also be used on the scrotum.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: So those are things that we really factor in when we develop products.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, how is that going to improve people's sexual wellness, basically?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, and it makes sense because I was even gonna say, you know, the ballerina is a product that I think is so masterfully engineered in a way that I think for um people who are a little confused about why they might not be having orgasms, or if you're extra sensitive and you know, you're not finding that pleasure during like, you know, actual sexual interactions and need something that's going to be a little bit more, I guess, uh more well-rounded, more gentle, a way to explore your own body.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is a great product for that because I think that you know, a lot of women, like women are we're all different, right?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it and what at the end of the day, some people really enjoy more clitoral stimulation versus vaginal versus you know, other things.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so this product, I think, because it is a more, I think, um, over like I think of it as like you just you figure out where you're feeling the most sensation when you're using it, you know what I mean?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that helps you kind of gear towards that and start to figure out your own um, you know, just pleasure points and where you need to target because a lot of women don't know.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, honestly, I have girlfriends who have told me, like, you know, they've been with somebody and they've never had an orgasm.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, it's like, well, instead of blaming that person, it's more of do you understand your own body and do you understand your own pleasure points?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: And those that kind of conversation comes up and it's like, well, no, I don't.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is a really great product for any of you listening that maybe struggle with that a little bit, you know, because it's gonna help you figure that out.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that's also a big reason I love this product.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very, very unique approach to vibrators, I think.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, usually you see the typical, you know, it's it's it's the typical design, but the you've got very, very customized designs.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I was asking you about um, you know, really how you crafted um your products because they're very well thought out, you know, in terms of the female anatomy.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you said something that made me think of something and I've forgotten uh where was it?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh oh.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, it's gone back.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's a really you know, Cecile, you've created a really, really, really cool line.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think that you know, more people need to be kind of following in your footsteps, you know, whether that's through the same way or whether that's through, you know, designing products that are really in conjunction with what you've created.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, now, like I said, now more than ever, we need to focus on women's health.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: We have to, you know.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: I remember the the questions that like the the point that I wanted to raise because you've talked about friends who come and say, Oh, I've never had an orgasm with this partner.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: This question around not having an orgasm with your partner is by far again the one that we get most asked.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: And over the years, we've come to realize that there are a lot of layers to that question.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: So often, oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes it is asked in the context of heterosexual sex.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and when that's the case, more precisely it's in the context of penetrative sex.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of people feeling that they can't have an orgasm during penetrative sex, and therefore that means they can't have an orgasm because penetrative sex equals sex.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're not having an orgasm during that, then the other orgasms that you're having maybe they don't count.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: Or that um, so that to me that's like it really shows how phalocentric our society is, uh, that we equate still like, and really unconsciously we do that.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: We often, I mean, for heterosexual people, we often equate sex with penetrative sex, we also often equate sex with partner sex, and we dismiss solo sex as a proper sexual practice, but masturbation is as much sex as partner sex is, it contributes uh to our overall sexual well-being.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, with partner sex, there is this aspect of connecting with another person, and there is there are gonna be things that we're gonna do that we can't do when we're on our own, and there's gonna be more like surprises of things that spontaneity maybe.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: So those are two different things.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not uh at all questioning that, but I'm saying from more like a physical point of view, in terms of stimulation, what we enjoy during uh solo sex is something that we can bring into our partner practice, of course, that requires to feel comfortable and safe enough to communicate our needs and desire with your partner, which like I wouldn't blame people who don't do it because sometimes it's also a context in which they don't have a receptive enough partner to that.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um but it's true that if if we can't bring in in our partner experiences what we know we like during our soul experiences, we're missing out on a lot of good things.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that question, like why can't I have an orgasm with my partner?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: The last point I would say on that question is that also shows how obsessed we are with orgasms when it comes to sex.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not saying it's a bad thing in itself to like think about orgasm as a marker of good sex, but it is just that it is a marker, it's not the only one.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: And being so focused and obsessed with it really makes it make sex all about performance, and it creates a lot of anxiety for all parties involved, uh, which defeats the purpose actually, because we're gonna feel less pleasure, we're gonna have less fun if we are so obsessed with reaching this goal that might elude us.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we I think a lot of our education program now that's that's called Volva Talks, a lot of it has actually come from that question and deconstructing all those layers and all those limiting beliefs that we have about sex, and saying, okay, sex is not just about partner sex.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: And when it is about partner sex, it's not just about penetrative sex, and it's not just about an orgasm, it's also about pleasure.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: And um sex is not just about genital stimulation, sex is not just a physical activity, like on gen is not just a about genital stimulation because we can find a lot of erogenous erotic pleasure by stimulating other parts of our body than just the genital area.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not just about physical uh stimulation because sight, sound, smell, the other senses, they also play a role in our erotic experiences.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: And again, we can miss out on a lot of things if we are just focused on physical stimulation.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely agree with you.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a really, really great point because you're right, you know, so many women especially are so wired to think that, well, if the man I'm with, and this is a very common, like you said, in the heterosexual community, where it's like, you know, if the man I'm with is not able to make me orgasm, you know, through the vaginal route, then there must be something wrong with our sexual chemistry.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's more of an idea.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually, you know, I wanted to even add to that is that, you know, I know there's a lot of there's been a lot of buzz around this whole idea of the G spot and then, you know, people talking about how, well, everyone's got a G spot, everyone has you just have to discover it.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's not really true, you guys.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, at the end of the day, there are just some times where that's just not your thing.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, your body is not going to be one size fits all.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's no way.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why, you know, even going back to my point about the ballerina, that's what I meant when I said it's very important for women now more than ever to identify what are your pleasure points.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Is it through penetrated sex or is it not?
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and so like these questions can only be answered, I feel like, if you do that self-exploration, if you do the things that are going above and beyond and not relying on somebody else to give you pleasure.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, at the end of the day, like we discussed in the beginning of our conversation, Cecile, it's like, you know, people need to understand this is really about wellness, it's really about taking care of yourself and giving what you need.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: And part of that is self-exploration.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're not even doing that as the first step, then you can't sit there and say, well, I can't have an orgasm.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know that.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: You haven't done the homework, you know what I mean?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: And earlier you've mentioned about how childbirth, like childbearing, and then childbirth um impacts vulva owners' pelvic health and pelvic anatomy, like, and there are other events in life that are going to have an impact on basically the anatomy of the genital region.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: So what we might enjoy uh in our 20s might be very different from what's going to work after childbirth or in our 30s, because for example, the clitoris it keeps on growing throughout life.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: So the size, the internal structure, I mean, like the size of the clitoris between a teenager and a woman in their uh in her 30s is different.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: Childbirth, like and pregnancy, is going to have an impact about where the organs are and how they interact with each other.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: You've mentioned the G spot area, which is more like it's an area where you have different organs coming into contact with each other in a way that can feel very pleasurable, but this is going to change throughout life.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: Even perimenopause and menopause, because of the drop of oestrogen, it has an impact on blood supply and nerve supplies in the pelvic area, and that means the sensations change.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: So we can't refer back to standards of pleasure based on what other people like, and we should also explore what we like and stay curious throughout life because this is going to change.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I find it a very exciting thought, but it can feel a bit daunting as well.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: But this idea that uh sexuality is always something that we get to write anew because our bodies changes throughout life, it's a pretty cool thing.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it is.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very cool thing, and I think, you know, it's actually at the center of, I guess you could say, I don't want to say redefining yourself, but also just re-exploring yourself as we age.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of like, you know, and this really brings me to like some of the brands I've interviewed have been like obviously like menopause-related brands, right, Cecil.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so like we talk about things like the changing of human, you know, or or women and their bodies and the overall just everything, right?
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: Emotions, the way you go through life.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, all of that changes as we age.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you made a really good point, you know, about the anatomical sense.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's important to understand that everything changes, you know, with time and everything, your our preferences, the way we the way we enjoy things, what we like in terms of, you know, what whether it's like a more private moment for us to enjoy, you know, if it's like just self-pleasure versus constantly, you know, seeking out sexual intercourse or some sort of you know, third or second party thing.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: All of those things, all those concepts change with time.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think women need to become more comfortable in terms of figuring out what is it that makes you tick, what is it that really brings you joy at the end of the day?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's okay to say, well, I like to masturbate.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay to say that.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to say, you know, yeah, it's okay to say that.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing, there's no taboo.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: We're not living in the 60s.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Come on, you know, let's be honest.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so many women that unfortunately, because they grew up in a different generation, they're not as comfortable.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to say to everyone listening, if there's some of you out there that are still kind of, you know, you blush a little bit when you hear these words, or you, you know, these are things that not so readily talked about, you know, they've been kind of hammered into our culture where women aren't supposed to talk about them.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I really stand to challenge that because that's really deterring us from practicing the best um, you know, norms that we can in terms of women's health.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: And like we talked about, Cecile and I here in, you know, in the episode, there's a lot of factors that tie into what happens to your body when you have an orgasm.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: The endorsements are released, you know.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Cecile, I'm sure you know this, but I like I was reading a study before our interview just to prep for that the endorphins that are released during an orgasm are actually very comparable to when we go and have uh like a run, like when you go jogging or you have a really good exercise session, because that like it's the same thing.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're literally your brain is just being flooded with endorphins um either way.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, the idea here is we all know about endorphins, right?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: We all talk about them.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in the in the workout communities and the fitness communities, it's it's a buzzword, right?
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like that also needs to become a buzzword when it comes to sexual health because that's exactly what we're doing when we're um, you know, receiving self or receiving pleasure or giving ourselves pleasure.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I really urge everybody out there, you know, if there's something you don't know about, go and find out, you know?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like it it's like, yeah, there's not enough papers out there like Cecile and I discussed in terms of the science, but we're Getting there, you know.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: So people who are looking for information, you can come on our website, uh smilmakerscollection.com.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: There's a sex ed program, it's less it lasts less than one hour, it's all about pleasure anatomy, and there's it's packed with fun facts and and educational information about uh Volva owner's body and pleasure.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: And like I've learned so much working in this category about my own body.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I would say that what I've realized over the years, because you've you've talked quite a bit about the taboo and how that's first it's holding us back, um, and it is hampering progress.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um what I've realized in all these years developing this brand is that when I'm really clear about KR cell vibrators, it's for sex and for orgasm to stimulate the clitoris, people during like a fraction of a second, they're a bit taken aback, and then that's it, the conversation starts, and they're really interested because there's no awkwardness created by uh me shying away from the actual words.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: And whenever I unconsciously go for um more indirect descriptions, and I talk more about intimacy or like massages for vibrators, and I talk about yeah, I'm I basically I use vague words, then the awkwardness settles um because the taboo comes in.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like a taboo is really easy to break.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: You name the things and the taboo is gone because a taboo is not naming things.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: So the moment you name things, you're already breaking the taboo.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: And we've realized how deep the taboo around female um sexual um and sexual body and sexuality is when we've started working on intimate wipes because we realized that almost all the brands are there that create intimate wipes, they talk about white for the vagina.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: And if you look at a lot of description for intimate wipes, they talk about how to use them for the vagina.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, first of all, the vagina is this internal tunnel, so it's an internal organ that connects the cervix of the uterus and the vulva, and it's a self-cleaning organ.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: We should not be washing our vagina.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's it's actually something that can trigger yeast infection and other kinds of conditions for the vagina.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: We should be talking about the vulva when we're talking about the external part of the genitalia.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: And most of us, we don't even know that word the same way.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: We know that our nose is called nose and our eyes are called eyes, and our fingers are called fingers, and we've known that since we were kids because adults are using the right words for all body parts except this one.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: And when we talk to a therapist who specialized in the questions of sex education for children, she explained to us that the taboo settles in very early on in life.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like children that pick up stuff very quickly.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_02: So if before they're even three years old, they've realized that we get comfortable uh with this part of the body, we don't even name it, they internalize that and it becomes a taboo for them, and they become really embarrassed about it.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that's even more true.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the taboo is even stronger with uh little girls.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and there's an incredible video that I always recommend to people.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's a TED talk by Peggy Orangein when she explains a study that she did on sexual behaviors among young teens in the US.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: And she explains how this like really very powerful taboo that has been ingrained in our brains around uh our vulva has first it has created this massive industry about how to change the appearance and the smell of the vulva.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and it explains why there um really an asymmetry in sexual behaviors between uh like uh female teens and male teens.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: For example, female teens are less likely to receive oral sex than giving it, and it's not just a matter of uh male teens not being uh willing to give oral sex, but it's also a matter of female teens not feeling comfortable uh showing their vovers that close to a partner because they feel that it's dirty, and those things have a quantified impact on our sexual wellness, and that quantified impact is called the orgasm gap.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: So if you are a female-bodied person and you are in a heterosexual relationship, you have a 65% chance of having an orgasm during um an encounter.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: If you are a male-bodied person in a heterosexual uh relationship, you have a 95% chance of having an orgasm.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: The difference is massive, and it has a lot to do with the fact that we don't talk about female sexual anatomy, and therefore we don't understand that we get more pleasure from the clitoris because of the anatomy of the clitoris and because of the anatomy of the vagina.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: The vagina has less nerve endings, otherwise, childbirth would be completely unbearable.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it's really a lack of education, and it starts early.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: So to break the taboo, it's really about talking about like sexual organs the same way we talk about other organs, and to talk about sex the same way we talk about everything else.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: It does not mean that you need to overshare about your sex life with everyone and anyone.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: I've been talking about sex for the past hour, you don't know anything about my sex life.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, those are two different things, but I've been talking about sex the same way I would be talking about sports, since you've mentioned sports.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: And we could be talking about the benefits of sports.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: Same exactly.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's a very, very valid point.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, you really, really touched on a very interesting point there, which is this idea of not understanding what the proper naming of sexual parts is.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's, you know, um, I I want to share a story with you actually, and this actually blew my mind.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I was sitting there just confused more than anything.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: There was somebody on the TV and they were talking about how they think that when babies are born, doctors guess what the gender is.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now, where the hell?
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Why would you ever say that?
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's you know, to me, when I heard this person say, and this this person that I'm referring to that was saying this was probably what, you know, early teenager, 16, 17 years old.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sitting here thinking, I'm like, there is so mis so much misinformation around just terminology and what like the different body parts are and what their function is.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we talk about things now, like you said, you know, there are more brands coming out of the woodworks when it comes to vaginal health, but in reality, we don't need to focus on vaginal health, we need to focus on vulvar health.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: Vulvar health is really more important, and vaginal health is more of a leave it alone if there's nothing broken.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's it's there's no reason, you know, would you go and uh go inside of your liver and try to cleanse it?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: Think of your vagina the same way.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're trying, you're if you're going to into any internal organ or internal structure of our body, you're going to no matter what, disrupt something there.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: Whether that's the microbiota, whether that's the balance, like the pH balance, something's gonna go wrong.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's and this conversation actually really talks about, you know, or really kind of hints at that um concept of douching that people were talking about a few years ago where they realized that, you know, women who who use uh douche products are actually more uh prone to yeast infections, bacterial vaginosis, all of these kind of things.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's very true.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the same goes for these new kinds of products that are coming out, which are the wipes.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's a very, very it's a generational problem, I feel like Cecil.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just this lack of information and also the propagation of misinformation over years and years and years.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're at a point where it's like, you know, little girls don't know about their own anatomy, grown women don't know about their own anatomy.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, yeah, I totally believe you with those stats about, you know, when it comes to oral sex, because I know a lot of women that are like, well, I would rather give than receive.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, is that because that's your preference?
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or is that because you're too confused about what it is that you're gonna experience if somebody were to perform oral sex on you?
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it just makes you wonder, right?
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like it makes you like think like, what's really going on here from a psychological standpoint, and how can we really help, you know, kind of clear that up?
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, this is this is such a it's such a huge topic, it really is.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's it's there is something like I don't know if it's just from a psychological standpoint, there is a systemic angle to this as well, which is like from a systemic angle, we we have a taboo that is um built and maintained on an ongoing basis by this notion that uh the female body is not completely autonomous, and that's how that's why it ties back to what happened recently, and that you were talking about role v word being um overturned.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: There is a connection between um female, like women's sexual autonomy and our ability to enjoy our bodies and our ability to make decisions on our own body uh as well.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that's I think that's really where the the link that you've mentioned is that um it's it's comes from the same place, the uh roadblock, like not just roadblock, like this massive system that's working against us, comes from the same thing, be it from sexual pleasure or on the topic of uh abortion.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and you know, and the that's the thing is that it it's it's more of an idea of understanding, you know, I think misinformation, but more so like, you know, how many people are are you gonna meet in your life that are willing to sit down and have a conversation with you and and really sit down and dive in, you know.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm that's a big thing, right?
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: And in terms of like people getting educated about this topic, it's more so about how many people are willing to sit down and have open discussions and hold forums and hold, you know, uh seminars or conferences that are talking about this.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think companies should be implementing this kind of stuff, you know, if I'm honest.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, part of what in a workplace, you should, you know, be educating your employee employees and in educating your staff.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: And part of you know, the wellness procedure is to cover sexual health.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that a lot of the things that we're seeing nowadays, in terms of politics, in terms of, you know, anything really, think about anything.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: It a lot of it has to do with misinformation, a lot of it has to do with this idea that, you know, um, we already know what we need to know, and this is how it should be.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that concept itself is so just it's so contradictory to what wellness is that it just makes my my brain just explode, you know, because it it doesn't make any sense.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like you won't, we will never get anywhere until we start talking about things that are not talked about.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, for example, you know, um, when we talk about embryology, you know, in medical school, in our training, we learn about how we develop as human beings, and our default is to develop as females until an hormone comes in, anti-malarian hormone, and it inhibits the production of you know the anatomical organs we know as ovaries and whatnot.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: So those I love that fun fact.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_02: This is it already blows me away when I hear it.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_02: I find it so interesting and cool, and yes, it goes against so much about this notion that all our representation when it comes to the medicine, you know, there is this representation of the human body, uh, the distribution of nerves where you would see like huge leaves and huge hands because we have more nerves in those places of our body.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_02: But the model that's always used is male.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there was no female version of it.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: We actually created our own with like a big litoris, uh, which is actually we show it as bigger than the penis because they are more nerve endings, but by default, it looks like the world of medicine uh looks at the male body as the standard and not a female body.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which is absolutely wrong.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: You can't do that because we're we're defaulted to turn into females.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: If there was no anti-malarian hormone for everyone, for everyone listening, I want you to do a little bit of homework after listening to this episode because I think there's a lot of information here that can be learned.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're interested and you love knowledge, please go look this up, what Cecile and I are talking about, because honestly, it is true.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is a fact.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like the embryo is going to turn into a female unless this hormone comes in and says, stop making female structures, and then it's going to go and start turning into the male organs.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, this is something that's a very, very fundamental portion of why female anatomy is so complicated and it is so difficult for us to understand.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: Again, where are our pleasure points?
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: What are the things that make us tick?
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: What are the things that we need to discuss?
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: You have to really dive deep.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: You have to go into the medicine, go into the anatomy, go into the science, and then make a decision on what are the relevant topics here, you know?
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that this, you know, Cecile, I would love to do like a multi-part series with you.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is such an amazing topic.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's so little known about it, especially in, you know, um, the demographics of just women and women who have grown up in a society where, you know, this was not talked about, especially women in their 50s, 60s, you know, even late 40s.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm noticing, you know, this was they grew up in times where these were very, very taboo things to talk about.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love for us to, you know, reconnect on this and and talk, take this conversation even further.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to come back.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's been such a a bless to talk with you.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I love where you've taken the conversation.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Cecile.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's been truly an honor.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I love the brand.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone listening, make sure you check out uh SmileMakers.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to tag everything in the concept art for this episode.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I really want you to guys check out the lines, a beautifully crafted line.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not just vibrators dealing with here.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: They're very, very um, you know, engineered in a way of true representation of what is needed and the thought that's gone behind the products is just extraordinary.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I would really urge all of you check out the website, check out the products, order something cool, you know, and just explore.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, help everybody else.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: Just explore, man.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_00: Have fun, you know, enjoy your life and get into wellness.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're if you're anyone like us, you know, or anyone that you know that's open-minded about talking about these things, start a conversation, you know, even if it's with your best friend, start up a conversation, discuss these things because the more we talk about them, the less, in my opinion, we're gonna have to deal with things like Roe v.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: Wade being overturned, which just happened.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm saying?
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is the I really blame these kind of things on misinformation, you know?
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_00: Completely agree.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much, Cecile, and it's been lovely.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I will be back next time for everyone listening.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Ecta.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 59:51
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• 59:56
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