Latest / Reclaiming Consciousness / Bewitched - Breaking the Spell After Spiritual Mentoring Goes Wrong - Audrey's Story

Transcript

Bewitched - Breaking the Spell After Spiritual Mentoring Goes Wrong - Audrey's Story · Reclaiming Consciousness

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Reclaiming Consciousness.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Elise Bassine, trauma and breathwork expert, and creator of the Metamorphosis Method, the only methodology bridging the gap between spiritual healing and clinical trauma work.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: For many years, our consciousness has been hijacked by societal and cultural programming, religion, the media, and familial and ancestral trauma.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: In this podcast, you'll discover my unique perspective on trauma healing and how it is the gateway to fully reclaiming your consciousness.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: You'll hear stories and teachings that expand your mind as you discover how every relationship challenge, business block, or limiting pattern is an invitation to reclaim the parts of your consciousness you unknowingly gave away.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Get ready to go deep.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's dive in.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the show.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: So here we are again with the Bewitch series, and we are more than halfway through at this point.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: We have four more interviews, and that is it.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been very interesting.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: While there's one part of me that is like happy that we're finished with the interviews and all of that.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: And another part of me that is just, you know, incredibly thankful and kind of in awe of this whole experience.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: This was not something I ever imagined I would be doing.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, I think it's important for so many reasons.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and especially when it comes to my work around trauma, I truly believe that unacknowledged trauma is the reason why people are able to be manipulated.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that for all of us that are telling our stories, there was some piece of us that was wounded, which made us easy to be manipulated in some capacity, right?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's no like judgment or anything on anybody, because this is myself included.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: All of us have things from our childhood that are places that were wounded and that can be triggering for us.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And even something as small as I know Audrey mentions this in her episode, which is this week, and a lot of the women mentioned this too, but even something as simple as making someone feel special or making someone feel different that really tugs at a string of, you know, feeling like in childhood you weren't acknowledged for the truth of who you are.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't feel like you were allowed to be your authentic self.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And when you have that wounding and somebody preys on that and says, you know, you're special.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: I see you and your uniqueness, you know, I'm the only one who sees you, I'm the only one who understands you.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: That is something that kind of feeds this place within your soul that hasn't been fully acknowledged or healed.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think that that was something that happened for a lot of people.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, there was the pattern of the trauma bond where, you know, she would tell you that this trauma happened to you and then be the one that was going to be there to save you or make you feel better.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's so many things.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that there's so many ways that people can be manipulated.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: But if you do the deeper work to delve into your unconscious and heal, it's not even about fully healing, in my opinion, after working with so many people and after doing extensive deep trauma work on myself.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's just about the awareness, right?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that if you have the awareness that you have certain weak spots because of things that have happened in your past, then it can be a lot easier to recognize when that is triggered through somebody, you know, using it to manipulate you.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I have come up with the 11 patterns of manipulation that I'm going to be sharing to go along with the podcast and how those specific patterns relate back to certain traumas or core wounds from childhood, and how we can be aware of that wounding and heal that wounding.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a lot harder to be manipulated or to, you know, fall into somebody treating you poorly.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just put it that way.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that's all coming.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then this week we have Audrey on the show, and this is my favorite episode.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna say it.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love all of the episodes, but Audrey just did such a great job of articulating the story in a very grounded, chronological and logical way.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then she also dropped some bombs at the end, which I don't think anyone saw coming.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that's definitely another reason why this was my favorite episode.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I just really enjoyed talking to her.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: I loved her perspective and I thought her story was really interesting, and she definitely adds a unique piece to the puzzle.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you're really gonna enjoy this one.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: We have Past Lives and Money coming up, which is my next program.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: This is, I think, the third time I've ran it, and it's really good, you guys.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you are somebody that struggles with the fear of criticism, the fear of putting yourself out there, and the fear of like what are other people gonna think?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Are you gonna make people uncomfortable?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you put yourself out there and claim and own your gifts and show up and express your authenticity, whether it's through a business or just life in general, or you struggle with procrastination in that area, you know, always having like a story about why you need to wait.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Usually all of that type of stuff has some sort of past life implication to it, especially if you don't feel like it fully, if there's not fully a parallel to your childhood.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say that past life energies and how they block you, they texturally feel different than family wounding.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it took me a while to understand this myself because at one time I thought that all you needed to do was heal your family wounding in order to, you know, make the money that you desire and create the life that you desire.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I ended up coming to this place where I understood there was deeper fears lying underneath the surface for me that felt deeper and more pervasive than anything having to do with my family.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I started to see that for a lot of my clients too.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: And the past life energies just have a different texture to them.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're much harder to see, they're much more pervasive.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I give all these examples of the ways they can show up because you can kind of think it's about like, oh, well, maybe I just need to wait till I have clarity, or maybe it's just I need more time, or you know, I just need to learn a little bit more, or whatever it is.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Usually that type of thing has some kind of past life implication around the fear of being ostracized or killed for sharing your gifts.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something that you can feel it like lurking or lingering underneath the surface, but you can't quite put your finger on it.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's what this program is for.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because my whole philosophy on past lives is we don't need to go into every lifetime and unravel it and heal it.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: I just think that's a waste of time.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to get directly to the things that are blocking you from creating what you want today that are rooted in past life trauma or these past life archetypal energies.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what you learn how to shift in past lives and money.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: All the digital content you're gonna get access to when you sign up.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm doing two live experiences.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: One is gonna be a coaching and support call where I will help you individually apply the work to your specific situations.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: You can come on and ask me anything.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then the second call is going to be a breathwork and trauma healing experience where I'm gonna take you through a breath work and energy work session to dissolve these past life energies permanently from your field so that it's not a problem for you anymore.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And all of these reasons why you need to wait or hold back or not show up in your full authentic expression, it just goes away and that stuff becomes easy and obvious.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: So if you sign up before April 15th, it's half off.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's only$222.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: It is a no-brainer for what you receive here.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna link that below.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love to have you join me.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Please reach out if you have questions and enjoy the episode with Audrey.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Bewitched.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Elise and I are here today with Audrey.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And Audrey was with me in Croatia.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: And Audrey has a very, very unique perspective on her experiences with Betty, with moving through the Croatia experience.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the other side of that, to me, and I was saying this before we started recording, Audrey, your insight and your perspective on the other side of Croatia was integral in breaking apart everything that was going on.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, welcome to Bewitched.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: We are happy to have you here.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for that wonderful introduction.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really grateful to be here.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: A little nervous to be here and be sharing these things, but I think as you have both acknowledged, it's just really important to share this and we know why we're doing it so we can help other people see the red flags and hopefully put a stop to some of the things that are happening in the spiritual community and otherwise.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for having me.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're welcome.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was reflecting also before we started is that we're all counselors here, we're all mental health professionals.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is going to be a very interesting conversation, I think, today from your perspective, what happened.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then we'll get into some other things as well around the psychology and all kinds of things.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, Elise, do you want to kick us off with questions?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, Audrey, I'm really excited to connect with you and hear your story and your perspectives.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, why don't we just start at the beginning of your journey, which I know your journey wasn't super long.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really interested in it for that reason, too.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: We've had people on the show who've had very long decade journeys and then people who've had much shorter ones.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, but we see the same kind of patterns throughout, which is really interesting.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, can you just um like bring us back to the beginning of how you got connected with Betty and what made you start working with her?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I've been working as a therapist for about 13 years.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: And within that, I've always been a continuous learner.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: I enjoy getting as much knowledge and information as I can.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I was always going to different trainings and expanding my knowledge.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so I kind of started with recognizing how many people were really coming in with trauma.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: I went in for EMDR, but then I was finding so much still left in people's bodies.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: So then I went to a trauma-informed yoga training to become certified in that.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then I had my spiritual awakening.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: So from there I started listening to actually Christina Rice's podcast.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I had been listening to it for a very long time and really resonating with a lot of her information.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: And then I remember she had been on a summit call and Betty was on there.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: And around that time, I had been searching for a training to get started in learning the Akashic Records.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: And after that summit, Betty's offering was to join her Akashic Record training program.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so I had researched that pretty thoroughly and found that she had almost 20-year business in the spiritual community.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: Her Akashic Record program was an international program.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: She had several books that she had published, podcasts, all kinds of things.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I thought this woman is legitimate.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to sign up for her program.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: I had first initially started in with that.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then it kind of just evolved and expanded into other things.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: But looking back, there were red flags immediately, even after I signed up for the Akashic Record training, because the landing page of what it said I was going to be getting was supposed to be a year-long program and all of these other details of what it included.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then I got the welcome email for it, and it was very different information.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: And then the Facebook page for them was again very different information.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: It said to email with any questions.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I sent an email just to clarify what exactly am I getting in this program?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I got an email response back that was it was very off-putting, a little jarring, the responses that I got.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: And at the time I really didn't like how it was handled.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so I kind of said that and acknowledged that.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: I have a question just for clarity.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: So when you say you signed up for a year-long program, this wasn't a, you know, 997 program.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was what five-figure investment?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: What was it?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Please feel free to say numbers if you want to.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this was a 10K program.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: A huge investment.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: And probably, well, up to that time, one of the largest investments that I had put into myself, I think that was more expensive than my EMDR training or any other trainings that I had done up to that point.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: But I thought, well, it's going to be a year-long program.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: She's very well established.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to get certified at the end of it, be posted on her website.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: The return on investment is going to come back through.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: It was very strange.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: As soon as I got the program, all of the content was old, just audio recordings that were several years old.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not the type of learner that I can just listen to hours and hours and hours of just audio call.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I thought it was really strange that that was what I was getting for the amount of investment.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: But we also had these training calls we would have, but she really didn't do any training on any of those.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: She would talk about a seemingly other unrelated things and then put us into pods with each other to have us practice that she wasn't even involved in.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like we didn't know anything but go in and do it.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: And really, what was very upsetting later on into the story, I think it was six months into that program, the day of our training call, she posted in the Facebook group, this is going to be our last call.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's clear that this uh Kashic record training is no longer relevant.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm closing it.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm going to be just those of you that were supposed to get the rest of the year, I'm going to just transfer you into this other program that I have.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: But it's going to be so much better for you.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: You're going to get so much more time with me.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's going to be great.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: But even before that, a couple years or a couple months into that program, she told us she was revamping the entire thing and redoing the entire training and was going to host a weekend long training on all of the updates that she was having.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: And on the first day, I don't think she really taught us anything at all.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: And mostly just talked a bunch of jargon the whole weekend.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: And then she deleted all of the stuff that was in the program that was actually probably Akashic Cracker training information.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: She deleted all of it.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: Thankfully, I had printed out a lot of the forms, but she told us at that time, oh, don't worry about certification.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: You're not going to get certification anymore because that's old world way of thinking of things.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's 3D way of thinking.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: We don't need certifications.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: You're going to be on my website.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's not going to matter.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I invested 10K to get a master's level certification that I never got.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: I still don't have I just still don't have that.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: So a couple of things.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: One, in the beginning, when you expressed, because you said like through email, you expressed that you were dissatisfied with what you got or what the experience was.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm curious to know if there was any like backlash for that.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then moving forward with what you just described, did you at any point express how you felt about it?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or was it just kind of more of a thing where you just felt like you had to kind of go with it?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: The first initial email, it was more me asking for clarification because the information on the landing page versus the Facebook page was so very different.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, what is it actually that I'm getting?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: These are the discrepancies here.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: And the response that I got was she said something to me about, well, I need you to get out of this who me energy.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: And everything that you're going to be getting in this program now is so much better and worth so much more than the initial offering.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: So don't worry.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, I'll confirm with you this is absolutely going to be a 12-month program that you're going to get fully certified in.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then six months later, she closed down the program.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: I never got a certification, never got the 12-month program.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: So then when she notified us the day of our six-month call that she was ending it, I remember getting the message and feeling really upset about it.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: But I felt like I had to accept it because I had already seen multiple instances of her going off on people if they challenged anything or were upset by anything that she was changing or offering, that it would become a me issue that I would be berated for and she'd probably kick me out, and then I would be out all of the money anyway.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: So it felt like the only option was to switch to this other program and just be okay with it, which I wasn't, but that felt like the only option.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: So then you switch to this other program and you do this like weekend thing that's supposed to be like updating everyone, and then how do things progress from there?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: That weekend thing was still part of the Akashic training, but she just redid the whole thing, but it didn't really make any sense.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: So then this new program was meeting bi-weekly, where she was going to clear out all of the blocks or things that we had that were keeping us away from our abundance or from our money, which wasn't at all related to what I wanted, which was really learning how to work in the records.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, on those calls, all of the information was things that I had already heard her regurgitating on all of her other calls and trainings, anyway, because as soon as you would sign up into something, she would add you into 10 other programs that she had and mostly just repeat the same information over and over in all of those.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so I didn't feel like it was any new information, any helpful information.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: It was just the same, same old, same old.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: So even going back to the beginning, one of the first programs that she added me into as a gift, I remember they were like these Voxer transmissions that she was putting out.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I got added into it and I couldn't get the message.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't coming through.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: I already had done my research, right?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm a I'm a therapist, I'm competent.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: I had already gone on Voxer's website, on the app, looked in the frequently asked questions, looked on Reddit for answers, all kinds of things of why I couldn't find this message.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so then finally I put a message in the Facebook forum that I wasn't able to access it.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember one of the other women in that group had tried to help answer the issue and said, Well, you need the professional level one to get it, which I already had.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: But she got yelled at for trying to help me because it was none of her business to help me.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: She needed to let me figure it out on my own.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: Then she started like publicly shaming me on this Facebook page about if this was how I led myself.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: What business did I have having a business trying to lead other people?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: If this was how I was going to handle an issue for myself, publicly on this page.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Mature human who would not naturally respond back in kind to something like that.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: So then I think it ended up maybe being the next day she had enough other people also say they had the same issue that she then posted, oh, it's an issue with Foxer.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't realize that if I've already put out the message and people get added later, they can't see the message.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll repost the message so everybody that got added later can still see it.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: But then deleted the thread where she had shamed me, but never acknowledged it, never apologized for it, just kind of left it.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: So that was my first experience of Betty's wonderful gaslighting techniques, um, which she had a great capacity for gaslighting.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: Those were some of my my first experiences with her.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then at that point, were you like questioning it or were you still kind of like going with it?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like what was your mindset around it?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: I look back on it and I was very much questioning it.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what is happening with this person?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: This is a very strange way to be coaching or speaking to people, especially people that are putting in this kind of investment into your programs.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: But I was very new into it and I had already invested a lot of money.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the things that had drawn me into her programs was the caliber of women that were in her containers.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: So there are therapists, there are PhD level degrees, there are lawyers, there are people working in HR, there are people that are part of TED Talks.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: There's all kinds of very powerful, successful intellectual women in these programs.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: And they're all having seemingly a lot of success with her as their coach.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so I kind of thought, well, maybe it was just a me issue.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe there were going to be some uncomfortable things that were just gonna bump up against my comfort level, so to speak.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just thought, well, I'm just gonna sit back and kind of let these things be for a little bit.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: At this time, I'm very much wanting to shift away from my counseling practice because I'm burnt out on it, I'm ready for something different, and I want to start building a more spiritually based business.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: And she seems to be really great at that.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so then she puts out this other offer to be in one of her programs where she's business coaching you and you know, goes through all of the things.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: If you follow all of my guidance, you're gonna be successful and you're gonna have this return on investment very, very quickly in these programs.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: And so I signed up for that too.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: But looking back on it, it was so out of character for me to be spending that kind of money back to back.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm usually pretty responsible with money and where I put it.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it was almost like I don't know if I was like hypnotized to it, but it was almost like I couldn't stop myself.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like I knew I shouldn't.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: It was like I was getting pulled into it.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so I invested in this other business coaching program.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it was like maybe just a couple days later, I heard her on a podcast talking about how she really is not a great coach for people that are just starting out their business.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: She would always say that.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she would always work with people who were just starting their business, but then always say that because she said that to me too when I started with her.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was just starting my business, which I thought was a really weird thing.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, but it occurs to me, it's a paradoxical, I'm using air quotes here, intervention.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: And we know this in therapy when we say something like that, it's almost like a usually I do this, but in your case, it's almost like a rise to the challenge.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it can be used therapeutically for good.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: But in this case, I feel like that.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, at least you did rise to it, and Audrey, you did rise to it.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: But yet the tactic of saying that and then allowing people who were new in business to step into programs that were after her confessing that she was not really a great coach for people who are new in business.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: So we can see that that's a tactic that she was using.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing I just want to say before we move on, there was a couple of things that you said.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: One, just to kind of illustrate some of the bigger patterns we're seeing.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: One of them is the red flags, but then the other women in the program.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like every single person has said that one of the things that kept them going was the other women in the programs, whether they felt connected to them or they're just looking at them and saying, like, wow, they're so successful.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: They've been so successful.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it must be me and I want to stay in it.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's been like a pattern across the board.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other thing that I'm aware of too with I don't usually coach people who are earlier on.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's also one of those tactics of like making you feel special because it's like, oh, well, but I see that you have something special.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's been another pattern that we've seen across the board, too, that draws people in, like you described.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, absolutely.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: And and for me, the ethical thing would be to say, hey, I'm not the best coach for somebody that's starting out.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna release you from this program.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: Come back when you're established, and I'd love to coach you.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: But of course, she didn't do that because it was part of her tactic.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, Elise, when you're talking about it, one of the things that I've been kind of sitting with is, well, it really is very far away from how I would normally do things.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like when I'm seeing things that are happening, I'm not usually the type of person to not voice it or not say something about it.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: But it was almost like there was such a high level of this cognitive dissonance happening for me where I was just trying to really focus on the evidence that was making me feel like I made a good decision because I had invested more than I ever had in my life.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm seeing all of these successful women trying to believe that it's going to be helpful and successful for me too.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm really just trying to put all of my attention and focus there.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so when I got into that program, I see again more and more examples of this just public shaming and berating of the women in this container for this higher-level business coaching.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it was so strange to me.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: It was almost like crickets in there.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: We were supposed to be posting copy for review and all of these things, and barely anybody was posting anything.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought, well, why would you invest this much money but not post anything?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: But then as I would go through, I would see anytime that somebody did, they never got any positive feedback, they never got any helpful feedback.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was just what we got is our asses handed to us.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: In a really, really harsh and shaming way that I definitely didn't want to experience.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: And when I would see her do it to other people, I would feel so extremely uncomfortable.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: It was like you didn't feel like you could speak up or say anything because then it was going to turn on you.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: And then you were going to be the one that was publicly embarrassed and shamed in front of everybody.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make a point here, too, is that all of these programs happened after the Santa Fe retreat where there was the walk-in.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the messages that she kept sending after that walk-in was that she was operating from neutrality and above.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: She was only able to be in joy.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if she were to come out of joy, it would be because of something outside of her, somebody outside of her, which was creating the condition.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: She couldn't help herself.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so then that would be where the snake bites would come in.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking about, or the bee stings or whatever.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think she probably used bee stings more than anything else.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking about that the other day that I've been stung by a bee twice in my life.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Both times, the reason I was stung by the bee is literally I sat on it and it was out of defense.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't an aggression.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so the whole um, for me, if we want to talk about cognitive dissonance, the messages coming out of her mouth were neutrality and above.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: The messages coming out of her mouth was that she's always in joy.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: And yet there was this very divisive and intentional hurting of people as soon as she would get annoyed.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: These don't sting when they get annoyed, they sting when they're aggressed against.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we weren't aggressing against her.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Can you give us an example of like something that would be said to like shame or berate someone, or like when they posted their copy, like what kind of things they would get back?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And was it at all helpful, or was it just shaming the person?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: There were maybe a few instances where it could be helpful if you posted it in there exactly by like her formula for the copy that she wanted you to follow.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: Then she would maybe give you some additional ways that you could word it or additional ways that you could post it.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: But in general, it would be things like I remember one girl, she had posted an offering, and then she blew her up in the group and it said something along the lines of, remember that conversation that we had just literally two hours ago when I told you exactly how to post your copy, and then you put something out there like this.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: What are you thinking?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: This doesn't follow what we talked about whatsoever.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: Do you really think somebody is gonna buy into this program?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: And she would say other things like, Oh, are you really that dysregulated or separated from your business that you can't come up with a better idea for this or a better way to word this?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: Or she would accuse people in there of, these are my words, these are things that I said.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: How dare you use my copy, right?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_03: Which we know is another theme here.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: But that was the thing.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: We'd be on these calls that would be specifically set to go over copy for us to use.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: So one of the things she wanted me to do was talk about trauma and the nervous system and the body.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: And we'd go over in these calls, copy for me to use within that.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: And then over the next couple days, she would post all of that copy on her page.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: So then it was like, well, I can't use any of that now because you just used all of the copy that we came up with as you as my coach for me to use, but then you just used all of it.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Did you ever say anything to her about that?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: I think at the very end, when that program was ending, I think it was, I think it might have been on our last call for that program.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: I had posted something in there for review, and she said that to me.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, these are my words, and why are you using things that I said?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I wrote back in there, and at this point I was kind of already fed up, and I said, actually, these are words that I have from my journal that I've been writing in there for years before I even entered into this program.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: In addition, these are also things that we talked about on our call as copy for me to use.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: So these actually are not your words, but I knew that was the last day.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: How did she respond to that?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: She never did.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: Good for you, by the way.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, so there were other times where you know we'd be on these calls and we'd talk about like plans for things that I was gonna put out there, and we'd come up with okay, put this one out there, and then after that one, create this event, and then after that one, create this event.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: And it felt good.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: So then I remember I did an event, I felt good about it, I had my next one planned, felt good about that.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: And then we get on our next call and she acts like she has no idea what I'm even talking about, like, completely acts like we didn't come up with this entire plan on the previous call and starts yelling at me for like why am I even wasting my time putting out offerings like this?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: Do I think she would ever even consider offering an event that wasn't gonna make her at least 10K in that one day?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm never gonna get to where I want to be if I'm messing around with this worthless stuff.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, you literally helped me come up with this plan last call.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: And now you're yelling at me for doing it and acting like you don't remember this conversation whatsoever.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: I got off that call.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: I was so angry, and I remember crying to my husband about how angry I was, and he was like, What kind of coach is this?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like, who does that?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: Why are you coaching with her?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I spent so much money, like I have to keep doing it.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so there were a couple instances where she had already given me her bee stings or snake bites or whatever we were gonna call it, to where I had held my tongue so many times that then at the end I just kind of said it.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: So was this before the Croatia retreat?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: This was before the Croatian retreat.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so then maybe this is then my question would be if you were already feeling this way, then what led you to say yes to that?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: If there's more before that chronologically, feel free to share.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: But like that would be my big question is like, okay, so you're pissed off, you're like, this woman is not helping me.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: But then what led you to say yes to the retreat?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great question.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, she really didn't help me.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't sell anything while I was in her program, but it was because she was trying to make me sell things that never resonated with me.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: It always had to be about how if people did this thing with me, they were gonna get so wealthy and have all of this.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I didn't care about that.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: I just wanted to help people clear their trauma and feel safe in their bodies and be them their authentic selves.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: I just have to say, I feel like all she wanted me to talk about too was money.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: And like it's funny because then, like, once I stopped working with her, I realized I like never talk about money.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people make more money when they work with me, but that's not like what I do.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh my god, I felt like if I didn't talk about money, then she was gonna yell at me.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that is a huge one.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: She did, yeah.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I would have people messaging me, like, Audrey, what's going on with you?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: Because I never talked about money either.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I never cared about that.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I want to be in nature hanging out, like I don't care about it.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so it never resonated with me.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: So it never resonated with anybody else either.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: So it never sold.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_03: And then she was like, Well, switch and do human design and use that as your forefront.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: But then she would want me to do my copy in this very rigid way.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: If X, then Y, then Z.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: If X then Y then Z.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_03: But literally everything in my human design chart is I'm a storyteller.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so she wanted me to use human design, but was having me write copy that was completely against my human design.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I already knew that this coaching was with her wasn't for me, it wasn't working, but she posted up that she was offering this retreat in Croatia.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: And for me, I have felt a pull or a call to go there for probably at least 20 years.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I knew that for me personally, I had some things or some reasons that I was meant to go there.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_03: And during the time of being in her programs, I had spent so much time on calls and practicing exchanges with people that I had developed a lot of really close relationships and connections with other women that were also going to be going on this retreat.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so at the time, I felt like it really wasn't about her at all or about getting uh coaching from her.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: It was about what I was supposed to get in being on that land and also wanting to be able to be connected with these women in person that I had remembered at a soul level, if you will.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I remember having a conversation with one of the other women that had been in one of her programs that had a very traumatic experience with her.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_03: She had been on a call with her and talked about her trauma to her, unprovoked.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: She didn't ask about it.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: It was extremely triggering for her.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember being on an exchange with her where she disclosed that to me that she was really, really upset about this and that she got a nine-minute voicemail from her after the fact, yelling at her and berating her for how dare she not handle this trauma better or to come at her and blame her for it, that she needed to work through all of these things.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_03: So this woman was already removed from her life.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember telling her that I was gonna go on this retreat for my own reasons.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: And she said to me, Well, I just really hope that you have some really strong shields around yourself if you're gonna be in that close of proximity with her.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: Which uh now I wish I had really, really shielded up before being in such close proximity with her.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: But that was the other thing, one of the other patterns with her having us in all of these programs.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: I was on calls all of the time, all of the time, either with her or practicing and exchanging with people.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I was in her world for like 10 months.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: So that whole time building up to it, I was being separated from my friends, from my husband, from my children, all the time on evenings.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I can't spend time with you.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: I have to do these calls on weekends, I have to do these exchanges, I have to do these calls.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it was already creating a lot of that distance.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: And she would say things like, Oh, well, you know, just get ready for having to leave these people behind.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: They're not gonna be able to come with you when you're in your highest ascension point.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: But you're gonna be happier when that happens because the new people that are supposed to come in are gonna come in.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um so she definitely that pattern was there with me the whole time too.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about just uh chronologically, from the time you said yes to the retreat, what started happening for you, and then just take us through sort of your initial experiences in the retreat, and we'll go from there.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I was thinking about signing up for the retreat.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: I also remember her messaging me personally and saying she had posted something about these spiritual attacks and things that were happening.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: Well, how did you feel after reading my post?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, you're supposed to be there, and you know, I've already gotten that you're supposed to be there with us.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so she was already manipulating that.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: And then I remember I signed up, and then I saw her posting things publicly on Facebook or in emails to people that uh the retreat was already 90% sold out after one day.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm sitting there thinking, that's a lie.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: She's lying because I'm in this Facebook forum and I can see that it's definitely not 90% sold out at this point.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: I remember feeling like that was another red flag for me, but why is she lying about this?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: But again, I just thought, well, maybe that's she's doing her marketing things.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna stay out of it.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going for my own reasons.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know, leading up to it, I was feeling excited.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_03: Gia, she's already posted her episode with the two of you.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: And she was one of the women that I had gotten extremely close with that we kind of remembered each other from this uh deeper soul level.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_03: And as soon as I signed up, we were really excited to be able to meet each other in person and immediately we're like, we're roomies, you know, and I was excited about that.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: I I was looking forward to that.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_03: And Like I said, I had always wanted to go there.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was really excited about having that opportunity.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: And then I remember her preparing us with certain calls that we were having beforehand to discuss some of the logistics.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: But then also there was a woman that was on one of those calls that signed up and then all of a sudden she just disappeared.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, she disappeared because uh I know this because I know who you're talking about.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: On that call, she asked, and so are there going to be opportunities for business masterminding and things like that?
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: Will I be able to get support on my business?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because all of the other masterminds had been ostensibly about business.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: And this was the first time I think she was really going for only the spiritual aspect of it and was beginning to talk about how this was her anointing.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so when somebody confronted her directly on are we going to be able to do business masterminding?
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: I remember she said to me later, she said, I'm so glad that she stepped out because I don't need somebody like that going on this retreat, holding me into wanting business coaching for me.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: And she was very insulted by it.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: So then she kicked that person out.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think that that person left.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think that she came in very unexpectedly, as I remember it, and you know, paid in full and everything, and then did that one group call, asked a question, and then pretty quickly after that, just pulled all the way out of everything.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think it was Betty kicking her out.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think she decided that wasn't a good fit.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: But it was interesting because she was advertising it as her anointing, uh, more spiritual, but then if people paid in full, they were going to still get some kind of uh business coaching one-on-one time with her.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: So even though it had it was leading as a spiritual thing, original coding and that kind of thing, there was always this insinuation that of course we'll do business coaching.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: Of course we will.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that had been the pattern all along, is that every time we would go, it was ostensibly for business, but then it would become something else entirely.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it was odd to me too, because I had talked to Gia about potentially flying there together because we're only just a couple hours away from each other.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_03: It was gonna be a really far trip, and I thought, well, maybe that would be good.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_03: But she told me that uh she had already been asked by Betty to escort her.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then Betty had messaged me to make sure I was set up.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_03: I knew who I was gonna be rooming with, and I had mentioned that to her that I had asked Gia about potentially flying together, but she said that she was already gonna be going with her.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: And she made a comment to me that I could also go with them if I wanted to.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so I remember feeling like kind of the one of those special moments, you know, like, oh, like I might be able to get to like fly in a day early and and go there with her.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_03: She was really good at like making people feel special in certain instances, right?
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: But then crickets after that.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: She never returned back around to it, never acknowledged that she had said that to me.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I ended up just getting my own flight because I didn't want to bring it up to her because I didn't know if I was gonna get yelled at, even though she was the one that had offered it.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I get there, and at that point, you know, it's a long trip, long travel.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm pretty exhausted, but we have a little bit of downtime and then we meet for our first meeting that evening with the entire group.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember I was I asked Gia if she was ready to head up, and she said, Well, I can't.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: Betty asked me to be the one to escort her in for her grand entrance to the group.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought, well, that's a little odd, but okay.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: I guess she wants to have a grand entrance into the group, into the back of the restaurant.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: She came in, and you know, this is the first time ever being face to face with her in person.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember just even just seeing how how frail she looked.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_03: But she would always talk to us about, you know, what we should or shouldn't eat for our ascension.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the entire time we were there, I only ever saw her eat honey and lemon the whole time.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_03: But I was just so excited.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_03: I was excited for everything that was gonna happen.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: I was excited for the information that I would get, the expansion that I would get.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was just really happy initially.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm watching Elise over there.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have something that you would like to say, Elise?
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: I just can't with the eating.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: I just have to call it what it is.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: She's anorexic.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm sorry.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: That is what I think.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: She doesn't eat and she calls it fucking ascension, but I've witnessed it now.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it just really annoys me because then we're made to feel like we shouldn't eat either because she doesn't eat, and that's why she's so frail.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: So sorry if that's harsh, but that's just what I think.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: No, I mean, it is definitely something that she was uh planting seeds for in all of her calls and and everything as well to people that they could eat coconut and honey and lemon and uh just only original foods, and and that was it.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_03: So it did give you a sense of if you ate other things around her, how was she viewing that?
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: And were you being judged for eating, especially meat or or things like that?
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: But I was different because she would tell me that I very much held the white buffalo calf woman and buffalo energy.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I needed to eat more earthy, grounded meals because of the energy that I hold.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_03: Now, that's one of the things that I've taken from this.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like that is true.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_03: I do have a deep connection to white buffalo calf woman and earth energy, but differently than how she presented it to me, which we'll we'll get into when we get into some of the realizations of things later.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_03: But anyway, the first couple days, I was still enjoying myself, but she was planting seeds that we were being watched, being watched by, like you guys have already talked about, the drone being watched by the military on the streets, uh, that there's cameras everywhere in town and they're really watching us.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_03: And each day that just kind of expanded more and more and more.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it was probably the third day in that it started shifting into the retreat planners that she had hired were not trustworthy or safe.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_03: And that they were taking us to sites or restaurants as um setting us up.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so then, well, we can't eat here.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_03: They've prepared this six-course meal for us all morning, but we can't eat here because the food isn't clean and we're just gonna have to find food somewhere else, but then we never did.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: What was happening for you on the inside when there was that escalation of paranoia and being told that we were being watched, that we were being tracked, that we couldn't trust people outside of our community?
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: I remember feeling initially confused because I guess it just wasn't what I was expecting in us going there.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, of course not.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, and she always talked about how she was always in joy, and so I was confused.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why is there so much paranoia and so much talk about all of these deceivers and all of these bad things?
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it escalated to a point where she wouldn't even allow us to be in joy anytime that we had a moment of laughter or playfulness, she shut it down immediately by screaming at people, shaming them, like, what the F do you think you're doing?
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_03: Don't you realize you're gonna effing die tonight and all of these things?
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_03: So we weren't even allowed to experience that by probably the fourth day in.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: When she's like, Okay, you know, you're expecting to go to this beautiful like meal, and then when she tells you you're not, what was your reaction to that?
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_03: I remember inside of me just feeling so disappointed and upset, but I felt like I had to hide it because you weren't gonna say to her, like, no, I still want to eat.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm hungry, I need to eat.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because number one, she's been prepping you the whole time that you don't really need food anyway.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_03: At this point, I'm really hungry, I'm tired, and I've been looking forward to this meal.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_03: And then I'm told, nope, we are here, we're arrived, it's ready, it's plated, but you can't have it.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_03: And get back on the bus, we'll find something else.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so then we never do.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_03: So then I remember feeling really disappointed and almost kind of annoyed by it.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_03: I need to eat.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm still a human, I need some food, and so we're all just going through our bags at this point, trying to look for whatever kind of snacks we have to sustain us as much as we can.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_03: But I just kept thinking or hoping, I guess, that that would stop at some point, that we would finally get to a place or a location where we could sit down and have a meal.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I also remember being upset about it just for the investment piece, too.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like I paid to go to certain places and have certain meals and go to certain sites on the itinerary and events that I was looking forward to.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then all of a sudden it was like, nope, we can't go to that.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_03: Nope, we can't go to that.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_03: Nope, we can't do that.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so I felt like I was not getting the experience at all that I was told I was gonna get.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_03: But she just kept amping it up to, oh, we didn't realize we didn't know there was gonna be this danger here.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't know these deceivers were gonna be here.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so it just keeps expanding out.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like these people at the restaurants are trying to poison us.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_03: The hotel staff are not allowed to touch our bags because they're trying to put things on our items or track us or poison us or whatever it is.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_03: So we're now at this point exhausted, hungry, scared, carrying around all of our luggage, like physically exhausted, right?
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_03: So she's just exhausting us in every category.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then we have to keep having all of these emergency meetings.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_03: We're not allowed to go down to the beach and sit and relax and enjoy anything.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_03: We have to have an emergency meeting, all 13 of us, I think, cramped up in the same hotel room to talk about our strategy and what we're gonna do and what they're doing, and how we need to figure out what they're doing so we can outsmart them and be however many steps ahead of them.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_03: And this would go on for hours and hours and hours until we were finally able to go to sleep the second before last night that we were there.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_03: I remember feeling really almost, if I want to say at a certain point, I got like really like almost heartbroken because I think we were at our third or fourth day in, and I had not even been able to call home to speak to my husband or my kids.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_03: And my husband's trying to text me and ask me, like, why haven't you talked to the boys yet?
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why aren't you calling home?
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember that night that we finally left to go to the islands, and it was just, I was so ready to just sit down and call my family.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_03: And she was giving us this illusion that we were gonna be safe then.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_03: We had changed the timeline, everybody can breathe, everybody's okay.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_03: And then as soon as we arrived at the hotel, it was right back to no, we're in danger again.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_03: I can see all of these things we're being set up again.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody can go to their hotel rooms, we need to stay together immediately.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_03: And so I knew it was gonna start all over again.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: Did you ever think the word paranoia when you were in that space?
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_03: I did, but she also presented herself as this highly ascended being that was all-knowing and that had all of the truth.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I was still relatively new, I mean, only just a couple years into my own spiritual awakening, that I just thought, well, maybe I just don't understand enough about it, or maybe I just don't know enough about it.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_03: She can see all of these things that maybe I'm not seeing.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_03: But there were times that my clinical mind was definitely coming into play and wondering, is she paranoid?
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_03: Well, she clearly isn't sleeping herself because she's talking about how she's awake all night getting downloads and she's clearly not eating.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_03: So, really, how mentally stable is she?
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_03: I remember having those thoughts, but again, I just separated myself from them and uh convinced myself that it was something that I just didn't understand yet.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about this yesterday, where I was saying that as many experiences of as I've had as a school counselor, seeing people, you know, having some kind of episode and whatever, when that's happening, I was in the role of counselor.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm able to like look at it much differently.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: But when you're not in that role and you're in the role of I'm on a retreat where I'm being led by somebody, your brain is not thinking in the same way either.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I mean, when I'm the clinical mode, I can see things in a in a very different way.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, at this point, I'm not there as a therapist.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm there to experience a retreat.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_03: But at that point, you know, I'm already in an altered state of consciousness myself without sleep and food and water and all of the things.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_03: So then I start wondering like, what's my level of sanity at this point?
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: I have a question for you that we've talked about privately, but I want to bring it forward here because when I got back home after my 24 days of misadventure, one of the things that Barb asked me as I, my housemate, as I was telling her everything that had happened, she said, Were you drugged?
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I still can't answer that question, but I think I want to bring that forward because you brought up altered consciousness with uh limited food, water, very little sleep, heightened state of fear, constantly hypervigilance.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: There is that organic altered consciousness.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: What is your take on the drug?
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_00: Are you drugged question or were you drugged question?
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: I know this is a tough one, but I think that it deserves some.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_03: This is something that I I've struggled with as well because the state that we had all gotten to, I don't know that I've ever been in that many days of all of the sleep and food and water deprivation to really uh have a baseline.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_03: But I do suspect that we were given something that heightened that additionally for us and not drugged in the typical sense, but I believe that there was certain herbal things, flowers that she had used because I was the shaman, the ceremonialist.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_03: She had given me some leaves to brew tea for all of us.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember she had brought down some honey from her room and she said, Here, use this to sweeten the tea.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_03: And then she made a comment about how she didn't need it anymore after that.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_03: So if anybody else like wanted that honey, they could have it, which is presented as a gift from her.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_03: But thinking about it now, I think that it's possible she put something in that honey that I had sweetened the tea with.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_03: And we know that she was all along telling us things that she was doing, like calling herself out, so to speak.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's part of the MO, right?
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is that they have to, they meaning she even said this.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about this yesterday with uh her talk about the Freemasons and the cult people, how they have to tell their victims what they're doing.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so, what did you see she was telling us that she was doing?
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I remember after we had returned home, she had posted a picture on her page of a white flower and she had a song with it.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was maybe the grandmother song.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't really think much of it at the time, but as Robin and I were having these conversations personally and trying to put together some of these pieces, she had mentioned to me that they had come across this flower in their journey together, and it was directly pointed out.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if Yeah, she um when we were in Santa Fe, she called me out from I was in the hotel room and everyone was outside.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: She called me out and she said, Oh, uh, Robin, this flower, this is it's a five-petaled flower and it looks just like your face, and this is what people see.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like she was totally invested in this flower, which by the way, it was a it was an okay-looking flower, but it was in dirt.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like there was nothing beautiful around it, which I thought was strange looking back.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: But she really emphasized that flower to me the year before.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then suddenly the picture that I had at some point posted, because I didn't know it was mine because we had modified the colors on it a little bit to make it more vibrant.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_00: Suddenly she posts this in her Facebook, along with, as Audrey said, that song.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, Audrey, go ahead.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_03: So, as Robin and I are putting these puzzle pieces together, I start looking up this flower and find that it can be used as a hallucinogen to enhance auditory and visual hallucinations.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_03: And its history has also been used in uh ritualistic sacrifices and all of these things, which, you know, I don't know how much we want to get into that, but it fits the bill of the things that she was saying to us why we were there, in addition to her posting things and kind of calling herself out for the things that she was doing.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so I believe that that was what she had used.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_03: She was very aware of what it was in the conversations with you, Robin, as well.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember too, at a certain point, my husband, we were told at a certain point we were made to turn off our phones.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_03: We were not allowed to have them on, we were not allowed to contact anybody.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so at any opportunity that I had to turn it on to let him know that I was okay, he's messaging me at this point, getting really worried and concerned.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess we'll say this whole experience kind of blew open his spiritual awakening.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_03: And he started having some visions of it too.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_03: And he was like, Audrey, you're being drugged.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_03: I can see it.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's on a plant, I can see it.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, No, no, you don't know.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_03: But now I'm like, Okay, you did see that.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, so he said this like over text or over the phone while you were there.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's wild.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_03: So yes, I do believe that that was also happening, but just enough to enhance what she wanted us to see because she was constantly redirecting our attention to what she wanted us to see around us so that we couldn't actually see her for who she was.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: Can you give an example of that?
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a story that illustrates?
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah, well, especially the airport when we were on our way home.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, so yeah, we um, well, after our our last night there, uh, where we were made to stay up for the entire night in this psycho drama that that Robin has already kind of talked about, we were made to believe that we were completely unsafe.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_03: We needed to leave immediately, evacuate ASAP.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_03: So we go to the airport.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_03: And as we're sitting there throughout the day, because we had to wait all day for our flights there.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_03: We couldn't wait at the beach or anything.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_03: We had to wait at the airport all day.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_03: She kept amping up more and more throughout the day.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, look at this person, they're watching us.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, look at this.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: Person, they're not human.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, look at this person.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, they're surrounding us.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_03: Don't you see all of them?
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_03: They're coming around us.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_03: They're trying to get to all of us, but there's me especially, right?
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_03: So she was having us see all of these people that are surrounding her, and that she needs us to almost build a wall around her to protect her.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_03: But it was really because she didn't want us to be able to see who she actually was, which we will, I'm sure we'll get into that for the realization of after we get home.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_03: So fast forward, I get home and I am so completely exhausted.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_03: My nervous system, my adrenals are completely shot to the max.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know how much weight I've lost.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_03: Gia and I left together.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I am at the airport speaking to my husband in code at this point of uh where he needs to pick us up and why we're leaving.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, Go to the police.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_03: What are you doing?
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, no, we can't.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's not safe.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_03: They're corrupt too.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_03: They're in on all of it, right?
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_03: All of these things.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_03: So he's having his own PTSD moment at home because he used to do bounty hunting and he dealt with a lot of people that were kidnapped or sex trafficked or all of these things.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so he's thinking worst case scenario over there.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm like, just be ready to pick us up.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_03: We're coming in home together.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_03: I land and I remember just feeling so like I could finally take a breath when I saw him at the airport.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_03: And like we stopped to have this huge juicy burger and fries and milkshakes and all of the things.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like we're just starving.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_03: All of us, because he had been up for days at this point, too, trying to like get our kids and get ready to get me and all of these things.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I come home and I'm just trying to process everything, but also recover from the immense amount of deprivation.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm sleeping a lot.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_03: I still feel so completely exhausted, but I just feel really thankful to be home.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_03: But I remember still feeling extremely unsure of my reality.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_03: I still felt paranoid myself because she had gotten us to such a point of believing that everybody around us was watching us, that our family, our friends, our colleagues, our clients are all people that have been put in place to watch us, to be our handlers.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_01: Did she say that about your husband?
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, did she do any of that?
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_03: Not initially.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_03: Initially, she was asking me to have my husband look into people to get information about them.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_03: Because when we got home, she was continuing this separation and division between even the members that had been on the retreat.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_03: So each day we keep finding out about a new person that's been on the retreat that was an infiltrator, a deceiver.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_03: They're now either publicly shamed in the group, screamed at, who are you?
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_03: Who are you?
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_03: Who are you really?
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_03: Or just completely ostracized out of the group.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_03: So she's having me have my husband look into all of these people because even though he doesn't do that anymore, he still very much is connected to his old team that has access to very, very deep records of people that you can't find otherwise.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so he is having people go through all of this stuff.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_03: And then he's trying to tell me things are not adding up with Betty, Audrey.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_03: I think that she's in on this.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I was just like, no, you're wrong.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_03: They're after her.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_03: It can't be.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_03: So then he kind of realized that I was still in a place that I wasn't ready to hear that.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so then he changed tactics and was like, I just want to help.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_03: Let me help you guys, let me help figure it out.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_03: I want to protect all of you, all of this stuff.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_03: So then, so she's kind of using me for that at that point and messaging me.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_03: I need you to look into this person and this person.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_03: But a lot of times she would have Gia be the one to contact me and say what she needed.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_03: She wasn't always contacting me directly about it, which I thought was odd.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_03: And then I found out that there was also this like in-group, out group in WhatsApp or whatever after we got home.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I was not included in this other group.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then she messages me and tells me, well, you already know.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_03: You already know the reason why you're not in that.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it's because of your husband, sweetheart.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_03: You already know he's not who he says he is.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_03: He's a deceiver.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_03: He's been watching you your whole life.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_03: And like I've known this guy since I was probably 13 years old.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm like, oh my gosh, can I even trust my husband?
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_03: At this point, she was prepping me to get ready to have to leave him.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to say, too, I feel like this is such a pattern, not only the division stuff with your husband, but also as soon as she feels that that person is about to be onto her, that's when she turns it on them.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_01: So she probably at some point realized that, like, if he was digging, he was gonna find something on her.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_01: So before that happened, she was gonna turn it and say that he's the bad guy.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_03: That's absolutely what happened.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_03: I think she started to realize the access of information that he could get and felt very threatened by that.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so the tactic was he's an infiltrator, you need to leave him.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_03: But he had already been looking her up for a while.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_03: And what's interesting about this is that she would always present that she was so trauma-informed that she had this history working in, I think, social work or forensics that she would talk about.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_03: Forensic social work.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_03: There is no record of her ever working in that.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Ever.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_00: I know it.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that was a lie.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to know.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Can we get into it?
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_00: What'd your husband find out about her?
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_03: He found out that, which I felt like was a huge piece that she would always talk about that and present that.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_03: And she's got no degree in it, she's got no record of it, no history of working in this.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then he said that, well, she would talk about some of her real estate stuff, real estate that she was selling.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_03: And he was like, She sold all of her stuff almost a decade or two prior to that.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_03: There's nothing else going on with any real estate stuff.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's a lie.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then he said that, well, I don't even know if I should publicly say it, but let's just say she's being watched, not just nationally, but also internationally, because they're onto her and they already know that she is basically a cult leader and a scammer.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_03: They just haven't been able to catch her because nobody has spoken out about her yet.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_03: So who knows what will happen?
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_03: But they know and they've been able to see that she financially exploits and has all of these people and all of these things.
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then basically it all ends, people separate from it.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_03: She closes it, and then she just restarts it and then exploits and and does it with an entirely new group of people.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Can you be specific about what you're talking about, like with the the financial piece or anything that you aren't saying that uh your husband found out?
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we can have a decision if we're gonna edit it, but I think that it's like and if you don't want to, sorry, you don't have to.
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to see if we can I just don't I just I want to be mindful of it because she is being watched in like by like FBI type level, and so I want to be mindful of that, but basically to a point where she financially exploits people to a point where they give her basically everything, like their entire life savings, they go into bankruptcy, and that she then kind of just disappears from that and then starts over with a new group that she she does the exact same thing with.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_03: And the money, oh, that was the other piece with the money.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, there's a lot of sketchy things with her money, money laundering to other countries, uh, trying to hide a lot of that, which they're also watching.
• 1:15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Was it all within this like spiritual space, or was it because I'm curious, like if it's like a pattern of taking money from people, is it all under the guise of like this, or is it other things, or maybe you don't know?
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_03: I don't really know.
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_03: I know she she would talk about the real estate stuff, but she wasn't that wasn't true or accurate, like up to the point of time that she was talking about it.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I know she would talk about like investments, stocks, and things like that.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_03: So it's my understanding that it's been mostly in the spiritual world of things because that's kind of been her forte.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, she's definitely, and and that was one of the things that she was accusing one of the other women in the group of was this um this money laundering, but she actually is doing that.
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus fucking Christ.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like so like the level of like insanity.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I always say stuff like this when it comes to people who pull off these insane scams.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you put so much energy and effort into that.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why not just put that energy and effort into doing something legit?
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's just as much energy and effort, and I realize there's other complexities to it, but it's just so crazy to me.
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we know now that she's not a high vibration person or being that's in her, it's a very low vibration, and so yeah, it's a very low vibration.
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said that yesterday because when you look at somebody who is willing to traumatize somebody in order to manipulate them, that's like what MKUltra is.
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's trauma-based mind control.
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And in order to do that, you have to be living in this like parasitic energy where you are pretty much the lowest frequency on the planet.
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think about it like the message that I received at the beginning of the Santa Fe trip, which was as my guides were, I was channeling and they said, beware of the charlatans and the frauds.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_00: And Audrey, what I want to say to you is that on the other side of all of this, when this was all crumbling, you were integral to the crumble.
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so can you talk us through how you revealed this information to the people at the retreat and kind of what your perspective was on all of that?
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because that really was the it wasn't the beginning of the end, but it was like the last thing before everything toppled.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And also, too, because you know, where we kind of left this was you didn't necessarily believe your husband at first.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, like what made you start to believe him?
• 1:18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next part that Robin just said.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_03: You know, initially when when we got home, everything had felt so, so real.
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so when he would say things like that to me, I was like, there's just no way I was there.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_03: I saw all of these things, I saw all of the people that were after her and after us.
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_03: You're wrong.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_03: And he and my sister and one of my other dear friends had all been basically begging me to have a clearing session with my cousin, who in the past I have very much trusted and she's helped me with other things.
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_03: She went to an intuitive clairvoyant school for four years.
• 1:18:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like she's very, very skilled at this stuff, but I didn't trust her when I came home.
• 1:18:47
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, she's probably one of my handlers too, right?
• 1:18:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm at this place where I still don't believe my husband.
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm preparing myself that I'm gonna have to leave him because she's gotten us to the point where the only people that are safe or trustworthy are the people in this group.
• 1:19:05
  SPEAKER_03: And we're all gonna need to find a way to be together and basically go somewhere.
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_03: Red flag, right?
• 1:19:11
  SPEAKER_03: But but my husband said to me, Audrey, I just need to get out of here.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna take the boys for the weekend to Great Wolf Lodge and have some fun.
• 1:19:24
  SPEAKER_03: I would really, really love it if you would come with us.
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought to myself, well, this might be our last time together.
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna go.
• 1:19:34
  SPEAKER_03: I remember feeling very suspicious of him initially when we were there.
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then I think it was the second morning in.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_03: We were down by the the pools and the slides, and we had just been playing with the kids and laughing and going down the slides and all of the things.
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I had finally had a couple days to just only be in the energy of my family and really felt the frequency of that.
• 1:20:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember he went with the kids to go do something while I was just taking a break, and I was sitting at the table, and then it just like came in, and I was like, I think I'm in a cult.
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so then I just start searching all of the things that give you the indication that you're in a cult.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I come across this one uh webpage in particular that went uh pretty in-depth of the behavioral control, the thought control, the information control, and the emotional control.
• 1:20:42
  SPEAKER_03: And in each of those categories, I'm looking at the things and I'm like, check, check, check, check, check.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_03: So under the behavioral control, there was uh wanting people to change their clothing, their hairstyle, their eating, drinking, sleep habits, exploiting them financially and restricting their leisure time.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_03: All fit.
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thought control, this us versus them mentality, changing people's identities and giving them new names, using the loaded language to bring up all of these emotional responses and thought stopping techniques to prevent critical thinking or questioning, and then also only wanting people to be in like positive emotions.
• 1:21:30
  SPEAKER_03: We can only be in the joy frequency, right?
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_03: And then under the information control, distorting a lot of the information.
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_03: We've you guys have already kind of talked about how she was always giving these two truths and a lie, and so she would distort just enough to make you feel like, is that true?
• 1:21:49
  SPEAKER_03: Forbidding speaking to ex-members.
• 1:21:52
  SPEAKER_03: So anybody that had left the group, you need to block them, you need to delete them, you can't have any contact with them, dividing even this like insider versus outsider info.
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_03: So even within our safe group, there was still an inside and an outside group of that, which I already kind of discussed.
• 1:22:11
  SPEAKER_03: Gaslighting, which she was the queen of, and then asking us to spy on others for misconduct, right?
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_03: So she was asking us to come to her if anybody was questioning her or questioning anything that she was doing or saying that it would mean that they were a deceiver and she needed to know about that.
• 1:22:30
  SPEAKER_03: And then the emotional control, instilling irrational fears about leaving the group, preventing emotions, promoting feelings of shame and guilt, love bombing, making us feel special, shunning you if you disobey, and making you feel like there's no peace or safety outside of the group.
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_03: And so it just came in like all at once, and I can see it.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I just knew immediately that I needed to have a session with my cousin ASAP.
• 1:23:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so I text her and had a scheduled appointment with her for the next day because I knew that if I didn't, I would probably get pulled back into it.
• 1:23:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I had that session with my cousin, and it finally became very apparent to me who she actually was.
• 1:23:23
  SPEAKER_03: She was wearing a mask the entire time and does, in fact, have a very dark, low vibration entity that she's allowed to enter into her, and was trying to infiltrate that into all of us and into all of our fields and our um energy centers and all of the things.
• 1:23:45
  SPEAKER_03: And she cleared me from that, but also my spirit is one that really likes to uh experience things firsthand, and so one of the things that she had talked about was that there was that aspect of it, but there was also some karmic things that needed to be cleared for me and a couple other people in this.
• 1:24:12
  SPEAKER_03: And we know 2024 was a lot of karmic patterns releasing, and so it was myself, one of my other dear friends, and and Gia, actually, the three of us were in that.
• 1:24:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember after she had cleared me, I started crying and I was like, what am I gonna do?
• 1:24:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I can't leave Gia in this and the other women.
• 1:24:35
  SPEAKER_03: How am I gonna do that?
• 1:24:38
  SPEAKER_03: And she said that she could see it was going to start coming apart in the next couple of months, but that now that she had disconnected me from it, Gia might feel it a lot sooner than she would otherwise.
• 1:24:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then I got a message from her the very next morning telling me that she just felt like something was off and she just couldn't figure out what it was, but something just didn't feel right anymore.
• 1:25:07
  SPEAKER_03: And that's when I sent her this 20-minute-long voice note.
• 1:25:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I was just crying.
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_03: I was so emotional because I knew that I was taking a big risk in telling her because she was very close to Betty at that point.
• 1:25:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I didn't want to lose her, but I also knew that eventually, even if she couldn't hear it then, that she would be able to and we'd be able to reconnect at some point.
• 1:25:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so, as she had mentioned, I just really asked her at the very beginning of it to try and tap into her heart and to listen from her heart as I shared this information with her about who Betty actually was and what she was doing to all of us, and that I was making the decision to completely remove myself from all of the groups and block her from having any sort of contact with me whatsoever.
• 1:26:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I was extremely relieved to get a message back from her, also crying, telling me that she knew that the words I was telling her were truth.
• 1:26:14
  SPEAKER_03: We kind of talked about it for a couple hours after that and discussed who we were each going to be reaching out to to let the rest of the group know.
• 1:26:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so I reached out to another woman or two, and then she reached out to some of the other women as well.
• 1:26:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I had said to her that I felt like it would maybe be a little bit more powerful from her to share that with some of these other women because she was in her world a little bit longer and she was very close to her, very much used by her as one of her right hand people.
• 1:26:50
  SPEAKER_03: And so as soon as that message went out, I think it was within maybe a day or two that everybody pulled out and blocked her and and left everything.
• 1:27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Did you tell her that you were gonna leave, or did you just block her and that was the end of it?
• 1:27:07
  SPEAKER_03: I just blocked her because I had already been cleared at that point.
• 1:27:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so I didn't want to have any more interaction with her whatsoever.
• 1:27:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I just blocked her on everything.
• 1:27:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I had to go through and remove myself from probably 15 groups and emails and voxers and WhatsApps and Facebook and Instagram and all of the things.
• 1:27:33
  SPEAKER_03: I had to go everywhere and clear it all out.
• 1:27:36
  SPEAKER_03: And as soon as I did, I just felt like this huge sense of relief in my body, and I could finally breathe again.
• 1:27:45
  SPEAKER_03: And then I realized how much she had blocked my voice and removed me from my own authenticity.
• 1:27:55
  SPEAKER_03: And there were so many times where my body was just screaming at me.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_03: Punching me in the gut when things were happening and I was just ignoring it.
• 1:28:07
  SPEAKER_02: I was ignoring my body, which is one of the things I'm really great at listening to my body and teaching people how to listen to their bodies.
• 1:28:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like completely.
• 1:28:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 1:28:21
  SPEAKER_00: I have to go back.
• 1:28:22
  SPEAKER_00: I just had this memory pop up from that shit show on the very last night we were in Croatia before we all left.
• 1:28:28
  SPEAKER_00: And Betty wants everybody to be quiet.
• 1:28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody needs to be quiet.
• 1:28:33
  SPEAKER_00: And here's Audrey talking about listening to your body.
• 1:28:36
  SPEAKER_00: You get up in the middle of Betty saying, Everybody needs to be quiet.
• 1:28:40
  SPEAKER_00: I can't concentrate.
• 1:28:41
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be quiet.
• 1:28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Here's Audrey.
• 1:28:44
  SPEAKER_00: She gets up and she walks over and she sits down and she's putting you're putting on your shoes, one shoe at a time.
• 1:28:50
  SPEAKER_00: And Betty's like, You need to be quiet.
• 1:28:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're making me look like a cult leader.
• 1:28:57
  SPEAKER_00: And Audrey, you wouldn't stop.
• 1:28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like your body would not stop putting on its shoes.
• 1:29:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like one of those moments of such rebellion and in the most beautiful way possible.
• 1:29:10
  SPEAKER_00: But talking about your body doing exactly what the app it was supposed to be doing, it was so perfect.
• 1:29:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that just came through.
• 1:29:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's just one of those funny moments that I'm like, oh my gosh, I remember that.
• 1:29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like my shoelaces were like stuck inside of it.
• 1:29:24
  SPEAKER_02: And no matter what I did, they wouldn't pull out.
• 1:29:28
  SPEAKER_02: I just could not get the shoelaces to come out to be able to tie them.
• 1:29:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've never had such a hard time.
• 1:29:34
  SPEAKER_00: And Betty keeps looking at me like she wants me to do something with you.
• 1:29:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Yeah.
• 1:29:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:29:40
  SPEAKER_03: But I think at that point, like my body was just getting really almost just angry with me for all of the times.
• 1:29:46
  SPEAKER_03: There were so many times like I'd be on calls with her or on the retreat where she would say things, and it was literally like somebody was punching me in the gut, and I was just ignoring it and separating from it.
• 1:29:58
  SPEAKER_00: I have to come back to one more moment on the retreat that I think is really salient here in terms of ignoring intuition.
• 1:30:08
  SPEAKER_00: So can we go back for just a moment to that the time that she had us all gathered together?
• 1:30:14
  SPEAKER_00: She'd had this big emotional release, understanding exactly who she is.
• 1:30:18
  SPEAKER_00: And she pulls us all into the circle and she reveals that she is who.
• 1:30:24
  SPEAKER_03: This is one of those gut punch moments.
• 1:30:26
  SPEAKER_03: She um revealed to all of us that she basically was Christ reincarnated.
• 1:30:34
  SPEAKER_03: And that was one of those moments where I literally felt like a gut punch.
• 1:30:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I knew that's not true.
• 1:30:42
  SPEAKER_03: But I also didn't feel like I could speak.
• 1:30:47
  SPEAKER_03: I literally felt like I couldn't speak, like it was just blocked, which is also a classic cult leader tactic that they are Christ reincarnated.
• 1:31:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's hard to recognize that in that moment I knew that it wasn't true, but that I also was still on this retreat and still around her and trying to have these experiences and make sense of what was happening.
• 1:31:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that to me was the initiation really of the psychodrama.
• 1:31:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's when it all kind of began, is from that point on, we're going to be on this storyline.
• 1:31:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:31:22
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we have to protect her and so on.
• 1:31:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I think everybody I've spoken with, and myself included, had that same moment.
• 1:31:31
  SPEAKER_00: I had mentioned she had talked in the past about being priestos, but you know, we all talk about like we all have Christ consciousness or Christ energy or creation energy or whatever.
• 1:31:41
  SPEAKER_00: This was like announcing this publicly.
• 1:31:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:31:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then what are we supposed to do?
• 1:31:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is kind of more of like a perspective question.
• 1:31:51
  SPEAKER_01: But from a, you know, like a clinical perspective, what would you say happened?
• 1:31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because like you kind of came towards the end, but also even from your perspective of like when you first started with her, and like obviously it got worse, especially on the retreat.
• 1:32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like from a clinical perspective, if you were looking at this as a case study, like what would you say happened to her?
• 1:32:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think is I've tried to put the pieces together and look at it from that other perspective.
• 1:32:30
  SPEAKER_03: I think she kind of already knew all along that this was going to be how she uh did things.
• 1:32:39
  SPEAKER_03: The narcissism was always there.
• 1:32:42
  SPEAKER_03: This superiority was always there.
• 1:32:46
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, this was the other thing.
• 1:32:48
  SPEAKER_03: My husband had uh told me he was like, Well, did you know she's like a professional hypnotist?
• 1:32:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, No, she's never disclosed that anywhere.
• 1:32:57
  SPEAKER_03: And he was like, Yeah, she's like a professional hypnotist.
• 1:33:00
  SPEAKER_03: She's probably hypnotizing all of you.
• 1:33:02
  SPEAKER_03: She had been doing that and using a lot of those like dark psychology tactics in that, and thinking about all of the patterns, like all of these seeds were planted all along the way.
• 1:33:16
  SPEAKER_03: So when I had my session with my cousin too, she said that that was all kind of part of the plan that she doesn't have her own energy resources.
• 1:33:27
  SPEAKER_03: She feeds off of other people's financially, energetically.
• 1:33:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was always part of her plan to get us to a point where we would disconnect from the other people in our life, give her everything that we had financially, and eventually get us to a place of all leaving everything and going to be together as a cult, uh, with her as our leader, believing that she is Christ.
• 1:33:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so I could say that that maybe there's paranoia or schizophrenia or something like that, but I really don't know that it is like, yes, she she wasn't sleeping or eating.
• 1:34:07
  SPEAKER_03: And so, in the brain, of course, that's going to contribute towards that.
• 1:34:12
  SPEAKER_03: But this entity has pretty much taken over any human part of her that would have been left.
• 1:34:18
  SPEAKER_03: And it was very much the intention of that entity to feed off of everybody and everything else to give her her power and her strength.
• 1:34:28
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 1:34:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, to me, possession is the most likely explanation.
• 1:34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, when someone asked me that a couple of weeks ago, I said a runway of narcissism, which led to demonic possession.
• 1:34:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was my quick way of describing it.
• 1:34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I like that.
• 1:34:47
  SPEAKER_00: I would really like to be able to say that this was a psychiatric problem.
• 1:34:54
  SPEAKER_00: I would really like to be able to explain this from a mental illness perspective.
• 1:35:00
  SPEAKER_00: However, it's a piece of it perhaps, but it's not the whole puzzle.
• 1:35:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that the possession piece for me, I'm Catholic.
• 1:35:10
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up Catholic.
• 1:35:11
  SPEAKER_00: The Catholics are have some problems, but one thing that they're really good at is understanding demonic possession and exercising it as well.
• 1:35:20
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I agree.
• 1:35:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that this thing was uh not of the light.
• 1:35:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it goes to, you know, the conversation that we had with Louisa yesterday about evil.
• 1:35:32
  SPEAKER_00: From a moral perspective, evil is in some ways simply doing bad things on purpose.
• 1:35:38
  SPEAKER_00: But then we get into the spiritual aspects of it and then we can go into the demonic and the satanic and yeah, because when we look at demonic possession and, you know, entity possession and those darker energies, there they have like that parasitic energy.
• 1:35:55
  SPEAKER_01: So their only agenda is to feed off of other people's energy.
• 1:36:00
  SPEAKER_01: And the way that they do that is through hurting people and traumatizing people and manipulating people, which is all the behaviors that we saw.
• 1:36:10
  SPEAKER_00: When we look at the dark tetrad, one of the characteristics of that is the sadism.
• 1:36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about the energetic feeding off of one of the things that we know is that I even said this at some point, Audrey, you might remember.
• 1:36:24
  SPEAKER_00: I said they're treating our fear like nectar.
• 1:36:28
  SPEAKER_00: They're treating, I didn't know at the time I wasn't fully aware that she was doing that, but that was what the most important thing was to keep us spun up into fear because that was valuable for her.
• 1:36:40
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 1:36:40
  SPEAKER_03: And part of why any time that we were in laughter or playfulness or joy, she shut it down real fast and would make us feel terrible for even laughing, right?
• 1:36:52
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I I also would like to be able to say, well, this was just a clinically diagnosed issue.
• 1:37:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, like you said, Robin, there are aspects of that.
• 1:37:04
  SPEAKER_03: And like you said, Elise, like the things that led up to it, sure.
• 1:37:09
  SPEAKER_03: But she allowed this thing into her, and she always talked too about how it had been with her her whole life.
• 1:37:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it Yeah, you know who told her that?
• 1:37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Me.
• 1:37:20
  SPEAKER_00: I told her that, yeah, because I had studied based on what her books she had written about her early childhood experiences.
• 1:37:28
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows if they're true?
• 1:37:30
  SPEAKER_00: But she had written about them and talked about them, and how she had been channeling since she was a little girl, how she was able to move objects with her mind when she was a little girl, and how even her mom uh at one point told her that she's just like her uh one of their relatives, and that relative had a mental illness.
• 1:37:51
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't think to ask, what made your mother say that to you?
• 1:37:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I was the one who stated early on after after the Santa Fe, this has always been here.
• 1:38:03
  SPEAKER_00: And she grabbed onto that.
• 1:38:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so that became her story.
• 1:38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Whether or not that's true, I don't know.
• 1:38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:38:10
  SPEAKER_00: But based on what I knew as I had studied her trajectory, if her past was actually true, then yes, but who knows?
• 1:38:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and that's something I've thought about, you know.
• 1:38:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like I know that there was this big event at the retreat where she fully let it enter into her, but I suspect that it probably was around her and in her field for sure for a long time prior to that.
• 1:38:35
  SPEAKER_03: If if I uh think about the stories I've heard from other people that were that kind of knew her prior to when she allowed this to come in.
• 1:38:43
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, I've also thought about it as a case study.
• 1:38:47
  SPEAKER_03: I have had other clients in my office before that, you know, when we've been doing deeper work with trauma or IFS and doing part stuff, that there have been moments where I know that there is something attached to them.
• 1:39:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just a clinical thing, there are other spiritual things.
• 1:39:07
  SPEAKER_03: And however you want to look at it from the, you know, I grew up Catholic too, and all of the possessions, or if you want to look at it from this more spiritual thing of just a low vibration entity, is a reality and it does happen.
• 1:39:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's really what we're looking at here, but it is also eating her alive.
• 1:39:24
  SPEAKER_03: And if she doesn't choose her human at some point, you know, I really don't know how much longer she will be able to survive it because it is like a parasite feeding off of everybody else, but also off of her.
• 1:39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Which makes me think that it's looking to jump to its next host.
• 1:39:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:39:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, sorry.
• 1:39:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna be me.
• 1:39:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, and but I think that the crumbling of this in October, we'll say, of last year, it just really I think created a big weakness, a big rift in it, which I think is a really, really good thing.
• 1:40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because after all, I mean, we've talked about who she targeted.
• 1:40:03
  SPEAKER_00: She targeted all the spiritually intelligent, benevolent leaders.
• 1:40:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I suppose that she was really that arrogant to think that that would actually work.
• 1:40:15
  SPEAKER_01: Am I speaking out of turn there?
• 1:40:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:40:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I agree with you.
• 1:40:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think that when you have a certain frequency and you know, you've come to the planet for a certain reason, I do think that you naturally have certain protections around you.
• 1:40:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also think that when you're really sensitive and tuned in, you can feel when something's off and you can do the energy work to shift it.
• 1:40:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you can also set really clear boundaries just spiritually and energetically, of like, no, I'm not available, you know, and you you understand how to do that.
• 1:40:53
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, but it's almost like, you know, when I think about it more from like an archetypal sense, even when we look at what's going on in the world, right?
• 1:41:02
  SPEAKER_01: We can look at it through the lens of the actual characters on stage, which really means nothing.
• 1:41:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's more about the archetypal energies at play, like the good versus evil paradigm.
• 1:41:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the evil, so to speak, right?
• 1:41:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they do.
• 1:41:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is like it's not about whether or not they can win.
• 1:41:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's about that's their nature.
• 1:41:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's why they're here.
• 1:41:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a lab is here to fetch.
• 1:41:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they do.
• 1:41:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's my interpretation of it is like whether or not they think they're going to win or not is just what they're going to do.
• 1:41:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's just in their nature.
• 1:41:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really, really good point.
• 1:41:42
  SPEAKER_00: Audrey, final thoughts.
• 1:41:45
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, well, you know, there's so many uh interconnected webs in this that, you know, the conversation could go on for so much longer.
• 1:41:59
  SPEAKER_03: But I think for for the purposes of this, I think for me, it's been really important.
• 1:42:07
  SPEAKER_03: When I first, you know, shifted out of this and and left this, I I was very angry and bitter and guilty and shameful and all of the things.
• 1:42:19
  SPEAKER_03: And to anybody that is listening, to just know that when you are in your heart and you are connected to God or source, uh, which she definitely disconnected us from, that you can always come back to yourself and you can always come back to who you truly are and why you're meant to be here.
• 1:42:42
  SPEAKER_03: And it's been a little bit of a journey, but I can see all of the as much as I want to say that this was a bad experience, there are a lot of things that are going to be part of my expansion because of it.
• 1:42:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't think that I will ever allow myself to be removed from my authenticity and my discernment and who I know I am to be ever again.
• 1:43:08
  SPEAKER_03: And searching outside of myself is no longer an option.
• 1:43:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so, for those things and for all of the beautiful connections I've made, I'm grateful for those things in it too.
• 1:43:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so what I was meant to get out of it is is also there.
• 1:43:24
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for that.
• 1:43:26
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for sharing all of this.
• 1:43:27
  SPEAKER_01: This was such a great episode.
• 1:43:30
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate your perspective and also just getting to talk to you because I've only talked to you like one time.
• 1:43:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really nice to get to know you better and also just hear your perspective.
• 1:43:41
  SPEAKER_01: And also I appreciate just how like detailed and eloquent you were and like prepared, and it was great.
• 1:43:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I really appreciate it.
• 1:43:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:43:50
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it too for all that you've done and for who you are.
• 1:43:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that you know, that calling that you felt all those years ago to be there, there is a reason for that.
• 1:44:01
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, we may not know what it is ever, but I'm grateful for this conversation.
• 1:44:07
  SPEAKER_00: I know this conversation is gonna change the way we're thinking about Betty and people like Betty.
• 1:44:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I um I think in part I was supposed to be there to be some of the the catalyst to get everybody out of it.
• 1:44:23
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 1:44:24
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 1:44:24
  SPEAKER_03: So for sure.
• 1:44:26
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you both so much.
• 1:44:27
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate being here.
• 1:44:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:44:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:44:34
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• 1:44:37
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• 1:44:42
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• 1:44:49
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• 1:44:54
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• 1:44:58
  SPEAKER_01: See you next time.