Latest / Two Broke Chicks / How To Find Calm In The Chaos Of Your 20s & Beyond ft. Zoë Foster Blake

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How To Find Calm In The Chaos Of Your 20s & Beyond ft. Zoë Foster Blake · Two Broke Chicks

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This podcast is recorded on gaddigal Land Always was, always
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: will be Aboriginal Land.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Hey chicks, I'm sal and this is Two Broke Chicks,
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: the show that shares life lessons and tips to help
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: make you rich in life.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: And today we are joined by.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Zoe Foster Blake, author, entrepreneur and founder of Go to Skincare.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Today we're talking about how to actually practice being present,
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: business mistakes that led to big life lessons, and why
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: telling ourselves.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Things will calm down soon is the biggest lie ever.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you, ladies.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: We were so excited. We were saying before that we
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: were really cool about it, and I do believe the
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: words I'm obsessed with you came out of one of
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: our mouths, not me maybe, but yeah, so we played
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: it really cool guys.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: But yeah, we're so excited.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: But before we jump into the questions, we always start
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: off with our life lesson of the week, So would
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: you like to kick us off?
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: My gosh, and my gosh, my.
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: Gosh, You've got me at the tail end of a
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: week in a health retreat and so I'm being bundled
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: up and sent out into the big noisy world.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: So my answers will probably a bit woo woo.
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: But I've spent a week in nature with my mother
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: and sister, and you just don't do that as you
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: get older. There's always children and work and partners and
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: so on. So just to lock into the feminine energy,
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: shall we say, in my family was very special for
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: a week, and I regret not doing it more often.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Oh that's amazing.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: I think I need to I need to take that
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: life lesson and apply it to myself, because my life
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: lesson of the week was sometimes the crashout is necessary
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: and because one we're in a ludial phase, which fuck
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: that bitch.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Dude, I'm in the first day of my period.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so you're like, you're getting out of it.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Tomorrow, I'll be like, have a release.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: I'm like, And yesterday was just one of those days,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: like every message you get not something's not right with it.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: You've got to fix something, you gotta do something. And
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: then the last straw was like me filming a video
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: and then posted it and it was blurry and the like,
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: the reaction did not correlate equally with.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: The with the crime.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: I threw my phone I started crying and I was like,
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: nothing goes right. I'm texting sal who's literally like so
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: busy being like fucking hate, like full blown tantrum. And
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: then I felt better, like and sometimes, like I know,
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: we will have those moments been like, oh, you know,
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: like works not everything and this isn't that, and I
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: think that's so valid, But sometimes you just need to
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: have a screaming fit and a good cry and like
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: hate everything within your vicinity.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: For maybe like twenty minutes.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: And then I came back.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: And I was like, Okay, who's that? Yeah, day oh
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: it's crazy.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, And sometimes as a crashout is necessary. But
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: then the thing that brought me back, which is so
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: lame but kind of what I'm like, I need to
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: just resenter a little bit on what you're saying as well, Zoe,
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: was it was like a sound from the movie Eternal
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Sun trying of a spotless.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Mind, mm hmm. And then I looked around.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: And my cat like came and cuddled me, and I
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: was like, would I rather have that comment or my
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: cat be really like healthy and be cuddling me, and like,
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: would I rather have that really annoying thing that happened
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: with an email or not have like the amazing friends
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: I have around me, and every time I picked the
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: thing that pissed me off, like I would rather have
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: the main comment and still have you know what I've got,
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: rather than lose that and not have that.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, focus on the positive, yeah, which I.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: Know, like potentially borderline toxic positivity that I'm not like
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: trying to like say that.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: No, it's fine. I'm not so happy. I love when
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: people are mean to me online. Yeah, like yay, thank you.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: That's why it's important to have the crash out and
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: not be like it's fine, Like, yeah, just having a
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: bad day, Like sometimes you do need to be like,
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: but like if I could change it and lose you know,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: these things that I have, I actually wouldn't.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: So I'm like that kind of was like, all right,
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: it's not that bad then, is it.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it can't be can't be that bad if.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: I still am like, but look at all this amazing
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: things that I have. Enough gratitude, bitch.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: But like I love it.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah that I was just like I'd still rather not
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: have it, but that'd be idea. But yeah, so if
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: you're having a crash out, crash out, maybe get a cat.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: I love you. Okay.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: My life lesson is shifting gears here hit me, and
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: it's that I learned this on the way here today
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: this morning. The first lesson is that there is going
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: to be a biopic about the band Kiss.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize that was happening. I love Kiss.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: I did not know this was happening. But there's also
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: so many that I feel like I'm losing track. But
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: the thing that I learned this morning is that who
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: do you think is playing Paul Stanley, the front man
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: of Kiss.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be so real with you. They all
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: are the same man to me, the one with the star.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, I don't even notice that the one with the star,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: he's the lead singer.
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: I'm going to just chuck one out because there's, like,
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: you know, the seven flavors of the Internet's Boyfriend.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I'm going to throw out Jacob Lordie. Okay, yeah, they
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: do everything. It's Nick Jonas.
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: What Nick Jonas is playing Paul Stanley from Kiss? And
• 5:32
  Speaker 5: he will be singing I am so introdused, Okay, okay,
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: brand yes, very interesting.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: Not sure if I see the vision.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: But I'm hoping. I like to be proven wrong. Yeah, interesting,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: no one else has been cast. It's Kevin Jonas and.
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: Brothers.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: And then the fourth one, the cat who's the one
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: that everybody forgets about, will be their little brother.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Surely, yes, gotta be that. Okay, I'm into it, So
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: stay two.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Now we've got our really equally philosophical life lessons out
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: of the way, let's jump into the questions.
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: Okay. In our first segment, we're going to talk calm,
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: career and chaos. We kind of alluded to the quote
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: and also the name of your book things will calm
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: down soon, And it feels like both a hopeful mantra
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: and a bit of a wink, because like, does it.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Ever really calm down?
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: You know? And with everything you know?
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: That's it?
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: Actually, thanks so much for listening to the episode, guys,
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: But no, like.
• 6:47
  Speaker 6: With everything you've built, I mean, books, beauty brands, babies,
• 6:52
  Speaker 6: how do you find calm when chaos feels like constant
• 6:56
  Speaker 6: companion through like every decade?
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: Great question, and I don't have a perfect answer, and
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: it definitely evolves. But the first thing I do if
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: I have a moment like you were having where something's
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: happening online is usually a big trigger because it's public
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: facing and I worry about you know, I'm responsible for
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: a brand and a company and things like that. Is
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: to not have a phone with me, put that away
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: and get into nature. That's usually my first protocol. And
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: a walk can fix most things, and a sleep can
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: fix a lot of things, and some food often helps.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Like that we're all.
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: Hierarchy of yeah, one hundred percent, and having a good
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: talk to someone event I think we call them because
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: I don't want feedback. That would be my husband's role.
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: But I think it's important to step away and get
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: some perspective because as you mentioned before, it's never that
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: bad and you can definitely fully find yourself in an
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: echo chamber where you believe those things are real. And
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: then I'll walk into the kitchen and see my children,
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: all my cats, my husband, real life things I can touch,
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: you know. It's have a banana, get your feet in
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: the grass, that sort of thing, which is a joke,
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: but I think it's actually really important. And I think
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: being in green environment is really helpful for me. And
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: also I would say sleep is I can handle most
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: things if I've slept. Mostly if I haven't slept, everything
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: is hard and I'm a lot more vulnerable to really
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: irrational responses, and so I've learned to just like I'm
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: not perfect like you are, Like it definitely wig out
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: at things, but I just.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Kick that shit locked down and get into nature and
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: it's never as bad later on.
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  Speaker 3: I like that because as well, it's like it's not
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: you don't just find one fix and go ook done. Now,
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: I'm never going to crash out. Things are going to
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: be calm forever. Now. It's like finding the process and
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: the tools to maybe be like this will happen again.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: This is but it's not this.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: Like looming dark cloud of being like, Okay, there's so
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: many bad things in the future that I'm going to
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: have to deal with. Maybe it's like looking at those
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: things and being like they're gonna happen, but I know
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: how to deal with it.
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: Also, I am also kind of okay with things not
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: being calm. It's how I function best, and that might
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: be unhealthy or toxic. But I like being productive. I
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: like having a lot of things going on. I like
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: my brain being busy. I think I take it too
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: far sometimes, but I think compartmentalization is really important as well.
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: So make time for your work, make time for your family,
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: make time for novel writing for me, for your health
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: and all of those things, and commit, you know, and
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: also to take back the agency and go. Things are
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: not calm and I like it. And if you can
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: put a positive feeling around it and it's not toxic positivity,
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: it's not going everything's fine always, it's going, Shit's gonna
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: get real. What are my coping mechanisms? How am I
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: going to be able to do better next time? Because
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: you know, being like again, the irrational responses. I'm not
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: proud myself. I try not to judge myself too harshly,
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: and I just need a snack.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Or relatable And I think that's a good way to
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: look at it too, because chaos isn't always a bad thing.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Having a super busy scrive isn't always a bad thing.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: And something that we're constantly told is that we need
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: to be present. But that can be really bad when
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: you are somebody who is really productive and career oriented
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: and you're always looking towards the next thing, the next deadline.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: How do you actually practice being present rather than just
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: acknowledging I need to be present.
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: It's a great question because I think intellectually academically, socially,
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: we are aware of that threat of being present all
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: the time. It's like protein, I'm always getting.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Yelled at about god so, and I have.
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: This thing where if I get told to be something,
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: I want to rebel and reject and not do that
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: and avoidance.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: No thanks.
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: So I am bad at being present. I will own
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: up to that, and I'm working on it. But I've
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: come to realize that I'm aiming for a bit more
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: of a macro presence rather than like a daily or
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: even minute presence. So my goal for this year is
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: to be a lot more present with my children and
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: my family, because last year it was all business, and
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: the year before that was all book.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: So that's my focus.
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: And I sort of manipulated a little bit by because
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: if my child and they think a lot of parents
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: will agree if they say, you know, if they want
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: to sit on the rug and do a tedious block
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: building or dull activity, I freely struggle and I start
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: cleaning the bedroom, or I you know, I do a
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: silly character and try to get out of it and
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: it's awful.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: So I realized I'm good.
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: At active presence with my children, not seated face to
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: face presence. So I'm like, let's get outside and do something.
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: So it's like parallel presence where we're both in an
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: activity together because I can't sit still. So I forgive
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: myself on that front and I go, we're still going
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: to have a beautiful time together.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: I just can't sit on a rug and play trucks.
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: Yea, yeah, And I'm not going to beat myself off
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: over I'm just going to find another avenue to connect
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: with my child. Yeah, and being present all day is
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: I don't have.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: I can't do it.
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's an impossible task, but yeah, I know it's important.
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: And I do do things like meditate, and I think
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: that gives me little spurts of it to get them through.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: It's also like, how do you accept the fact that
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: you're just better at some things than others.
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: I think going back to what you're saying, then finding
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: your rhythm and what you're good at, and that's a
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: dangerous path as well to only go I'm good at this,
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: therefore that's all I do, and we should try and
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: push ourselves in the other direction because that's where we
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: need to grow.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: Sorrow.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Damn, it's out.
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: I need to learn it as well, but I realized, like,
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: for example, in holidays, some people's idea would be like
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: I want to line the beach with the book or
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: next to the pool.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: That's my hell. Please know.
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: I've realized that I need a costume, a routine, and
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: to be in natured. So for our family, it's like
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: bike holidays, or we did Safari, or even on a
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: health retreat. You have a uniform, you have to get
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: up at a certain time, there's a meal time, there's
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: something to do. So that's strung sure allows me to
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: be free, allows me to give up and go a
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: bit limp and just go Okay, someone else is in control.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: I have to think about anything, but I'm still being
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: active and present.
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: It allows me to be more present because the shit
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: that I normally have to take care.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Of is not there. Yeah, that's a new one for me.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: I like that though, because I think a lot of
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: people feel guilty if they can't just sit by a
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: pool and read a book, and they're like, what's wrong
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: with me?
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Like why can't I just relax? I can't find it
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: really hard.
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: Its small doses, in small doses, but so I think
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: our attention spend's shot.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and you alluded to this before, but your
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: life straddles a lot of different areas, like.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: You've got your business, books, your.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Family, of course, how do you maintain balance on like
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: a random Tuesday, Like what do you do to stay
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: grounded when you are so busy?
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: I think also I have given up on the idea
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: of balance, or rather I now see balances like if
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: you think of a plank on a ball, that's always
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: like this. It's unwavering, it's not steady and locked. Even
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: if you try and balance on one foot, there's going
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: to be some work to stabilize.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: So I'm really.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: Okay with this going up and down all the time,
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: and I'm not going to expend all this energy trying
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: to find this perfect work life balance because I'm a
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: bit more everything everywhere, all at once. That's my That's
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: how I roll, and that's how I am, and I'm
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: okay with that. What I do think make that work
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: is the Again. The sleep hygiene is so critical because
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: I think we all know the effects on your brain
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: and your body and your mood if you don't get
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: good sleep. Never a phone in my bedroom, like this
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: is the shit we do in our house, and we're
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: training our children. We're role modeling that and staying off
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: things that are bad.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: For me like social media.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but you kind of mentioned before that you have
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: like a uniform for your day, right, I'd love to
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: know what are those things that are like your non
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: negotiables for your Tuesday for you to have the goal
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: of a good day.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: I like it, and I think that going in with
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: a good intention is really important as well. Mum's always
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: telling me that, you know, the first thing you do,
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: put your feet on the ground when you get out
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: of bed and just thank yourself you're here, you made it,
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: you're doing great, thank you for being here and showing up,
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: and then get into it. I think one of the
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: key things for me is taking the noise out of decisions.
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: So I have finally found my perfect breakfast, which seems
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: like a silly thing, but it's taken me years and
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: now I'm repeat, repeat, repeat, and then lunch can become
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: breakfast so then I can have my eggs and fun stuff. Yeah,
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: my god, I've got a hack that's just it's just
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: changed my world. In terms of eggs, I cook them
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: in thick cream instead of butter. I saw it on
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: Instagram or something, but instead of using butter to like
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: fry slash poach your eggs, use like a poor of
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: thickened cream. It's amazing, my gosh, rusty sourdo with avocado,
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: and then put the everything bagel.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everything bagel, spices, spices. We're with you, Yeah, do it,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: it's now, can we go? That's hungry?
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, shifting gears ever so slightly.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: But you once said a Karen.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Is just a Cindy that needs love, which is fucking iconic.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: But can you elaborate what did you mean by that?
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: And how can we apply more compassion, especially when the
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: world does feel judgmental and reactive.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: And a little too online.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: We've all had moments we're not proud of, and often
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: you know, it's hormonal, I think, or you haven't slept,
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: or you're just having a ship day and we're yeah,
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: it's I think the first step is to not judge
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: people in those moments. Some people are just having a
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: shitty day and some people are monsters, but that's okay.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: We've got to give.
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: Them the benefit of the day out. I think particularly
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: this kind of this was raised in the context of
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: customer service with go To and how I feel customer
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: service is a very very important tenant for us. It's
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: as important as product or marketing, because if someone has
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: bothered to invest with you and try your products and
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: then they've felt like it hasn't delivered, and they've then
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: taken more time to email you feedback, which ultimately all
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: feedback we welcome because it has really changed the direction
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: of our brand in a lot of ways.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: A lot of times.
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: Then they are first of all oda response, but their
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: old consideration. And I think a lot of people just
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: want to be heard and seen, and we don't know
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: where they're coming from, what they're coming on the back of.
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: You know, there could be unemployed, have a sick mother,
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: have a sick child. Like you just don't know someone's situation.
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: We all know that. And I think the minute you
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: show someone kindness in that moment and the compassion you
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: were referring to, they feel seen and heard, which is
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: all we ever want.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: And they are pretty locked after that because you took.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: The time to personally a human being doing it, saying hey,
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: thank you so much, we're really sorry. Can we fix
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: this for you? How can we solve it as soon
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: as possible? And thank you for telling us because this
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: might happen to somebody else. And so I think that
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: role modeling and teaching people that if you're going to
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: yell and someone treats you with kindness, maybe they'll think
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: about that the next time, yeah, instead of like just
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: going in attack mode on people.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: Do you think like self trust comes into it, that
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: that helps maybe dealing with feedback and also just like life,
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: that big old thing like self trust obviously plays a
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: massive part of dealing with, you know, all these big, scary,
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: looming things that we have to deal with when we're
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: growing up. And I would love to know what self
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: trust looks to you now versus when you're in your twenties.
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: So different, and I think, I'm not sure how old
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: you ladies are, but there's not a lot of me
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: that wants to be my twenty year old self again.
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: I'm so unsure. I was insecure, really trying to find
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: my way in the world. I'd moved from the country
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: at seventeen to the city with no friends, no money,
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: a lot of things, and it was my formative year
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: before I went to UNI where I learned so much.
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: But my twenties, what I will say is that that
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: self trust was certainly developing. What I had back then though,
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: was and I thank that person because she took risks
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: and she had energy, and I was like working full
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: time writing books, blogging, like I just went for it
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: and everything she did back then because she had nothing
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: to lose, she had no responsibility, she didn't have a
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: company or a family or a mortgage any of those things.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: She could just go for it, and so love her
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: very grateful. Now it looks different because instead of I
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: don't really have that same energy or appetite, I am
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: more using my experience and the wisdom that I've gleaned
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: from other people and my own life experience and what
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: I've done to trust my decisions going forward. So I'm
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: still okay with risk, lot more measured now, and I
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: think that's a sign of growth and evolution. You know,
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to take those same risks that I
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: did back then because I was footloose.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: And fancy free and who cares. I didn't give a fuck.
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: But now I'm like, oh god, you know, I've got
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: to really think things through and be a bit more
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: commercially minded or you know, time, just think about my time,
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: if I want to do that or that take me
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: away from.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: My family and love them both. They're just just different. Yeah.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: And I think as well, you've probably like learned from
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: a lot of the risks that you took, so that
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: now when you're risk assessing, you'd be like, Okay, so
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: when we did this when we were twenty, that didn't
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: quite work out, So now we're going to do this
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: instead that I'm like, Yeah, that makes sense.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Informed decision making, Yeah, yeah, which I think is an
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: important important thing to.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: Learn from our twenties or really any age.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: And you also wrote Breakup Boss, a bible for navigating heartbreak.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: I read this during a breakup.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: By the way, it literally my friend dropped it over
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: and was like, hope this help. And then when a
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: friend went through a break Yes, it's like the Sisterhood
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: of the Traveling Pants of breakup book.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I hear this a lot.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: I don't know where it is now. I don't probably
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: out there. I wish we all like signed it.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I wish I should have. If we
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: ever reprinted, I'm going to put that in the front.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, being like past this to someone else, and yeah,
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: everyone has to sign it, and you can see all
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: the wonderful people that have been like, Yeah, the.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Book is full of gems of wisdom.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: So what is one thing that you wish more women
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: understood about breakups, whether it's romantic or friendship or even
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: with their identity.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, good one.
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: I think it comes down to what you can control.
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: And one of the real hope key lessons or little
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: thoughts through that book is that you can't control somebody else.
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: And I think when we're trying to academically understand a breakup,
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: like the practicality of why this person chose not to
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: be with me, or why you chose not to be
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: with them, but you're still heartbroken, you really put a
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: lot of energy into trying to figure out this other
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: person's motives or why, just the why and the how.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: And that will do your head in.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: And I think you know as you get older, this
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: idea of control the controllable, it applies to everything you
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: do in life, and it does give you this underlying
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: calm and zen because when you understand that you can't
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: control other people's lives, decisions, things that you cannot understand
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: and can't hope to comprehend, there is a piece in
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: detachment and just going I no longer attached to your
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: needs and projections and this shit's about me.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Wrap it up.
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: Put yourself in cotton, will no texting. Put yourself in
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: like an emotional lockdown, and just like go through a
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: bootcamp to try and restore yourself and love yourself and
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: look after yourself. And that's the most powerful bit of
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: a breakup is the regeneration of what's going on whilst
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: you're still grieving, of course, and that's where girlfriends and
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: friends are just the best, absolute gold. And let me
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: tell you, ladies, as you get older, those friends are
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: just the best, the best female friendships. You know, partners
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: will come and go, life happens, but the girlfriends the best.
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: And when you're building up legacy friendships like I have
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: a friend that I met when I was eleven and
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: we're still in each other's lives. But mostly you'll lock in,
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: I think, especially if you're a country girl who's moved
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: to the city. Those like you know, late teens, early
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: twenties and a lot of my magazine friends are just
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: they know you so well.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: It's very every steak literally say you actually can't stop
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: being friends because they know it to much.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: I'd have to kill you and I love that as well.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: With friends.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: We wrote a book called Finding Your People, and in
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: it it was yeah and it was thank you, and
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: it was like, where does like the line between friendly
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: feedback and justification? Where is that of like your friends
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: being like, yeah, look not great, but I'm I'm still
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: here for you.
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: As you get older, you don't want the fluff anymore. Yeah,
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: just like fucking tell me st And my best friend
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: will be the only one who actually calls me on
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: my shit. Yeah, and not even my husband will. And
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: so I rely on those girls, that handful of women
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: to keep me grounded and be a bit mean because
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: I need that shit. And otherwise I just go unfettered
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: and think I'm amazing and fabulous and I'm not sure
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: people's feelings and not this, that and the other, but
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: those friends that I love you enough to be honest,
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: I'm writing my new book is about female friendship, five
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: girls and that mid life like forty five forty sort
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: of stuff that goes on.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: You've got a lot of shit at play.
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: Then you've got children, You've got parents who are sick
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: and unwell. You've got partners that you might be drifting
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: away from. You've got you know, financial pressures, health pressures,
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: Everything fucking implodes.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: And it's a lot.
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: And that's when the friends really come through because everything
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: else feels a bit unstable.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: We want to chat to about career as well.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: And you did mention previously that your start in editorial
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: and writing as a journalist and your start in beauty
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: did come from being an editor who deeply understands products
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: and people and not necessarily coming from a business background.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: So what's one life lesson you learned starting go to
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: that no article or spreadsheet.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Could have taught you.
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: Oh, just one, so so, so, so so many. And
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: I don't want to ever dismay or tell anyone not
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: to start a business because you don't have a business background,
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: because if you understand people and you understand product or
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: you've seen a gap, you are a business person.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: That's it. That's the shit that's actually worth money.
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: A lot of people that they have money and have
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: done business and commerce and MBAs, but they don't have
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: the ideas and they don't have the community. And that
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: shit takes time and it takes integrity and people have
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: to trust you, and that's the real goal. So don't
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: doubt yourself. You've got this also you will learn as
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: you go. Like with everything, we're not expected to come
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: in fully fledged. I know exactly how to run it
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: and honestly hire good people who know their shit because
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: thinking it's there's a lot of hubrew's involved in going
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: I know how to run a company.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: No you don't. I didn't.
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: So I had a general manager, a marketing like one
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: of our directors became the managing director and he handled
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: things like inventory and logistics and fulfillment. No no, no,
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: not me. Not good at it, don't care And that's
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: okay because he couldn't do what I do. So everybody
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: knowing their skill sets, you sort of have your superpowers
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: and you come together and make a fully formed company.
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: And I've talked to a lot of young founders and
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: they're like, I think we need to hire someone junior
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: to just help with like socials and stuff.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I would.
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: Really recommend not doing that, because that is your first
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: line of contact with your with your customer and your community.
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: And leaving it to someone who doesn't understand the brand
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: and you know, that's a really important role.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: That is the dialogue between you and the people.
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: Please don't give it to someone who is untrained and
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: doesn't understand the brand and the ethos and the way
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: to do the brand. Also, I think hire big, spend
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: up on like a key senior staff men, because that
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: person's going to take you to the next level much
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: faster than hiring someone under you who can do the
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: scrappy stuff. Take someone in who's gonna work alongside you,
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: and it will really grow your business because it's an
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: investment that will really really pay off.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: I like that. I don't think I've ever heard that
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: advice before, but it makes complete and utter of sense
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: because you often get told just make the first hire
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: and like they can do all the stuff and free
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: up your time.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: So they have to delegate.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that makes total sense to me
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: as well, because half the time as well, like you
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: just said, you don't know what you're doing, so you
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: need someone else to be like, do you.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Know you got this? Well, they're not gonna are they
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: just fresh out of UNI good. I mean, we do.
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: Need absolute business who are able to do all kinds
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: of things. But I think hiring someone senior at your
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: level of someone you respect and can help you in
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: areas that you are not good at or skilled at
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: will really help.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: I can imagine that there have been a lot of
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: life lessons we rebrand oops moments life lessons.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Because hindsight it's a beautiful thing.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: But I'd love to know what's like the expensive mistake
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: or like And by expensive, I mean it could be money,
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: or it could be like, yeah, time that you made
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: that you're like, so glad you learned in your career.
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: I learned it late, and I put this is part
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: of the reason I wrote Things Will Come Down Soon,
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: because I had just come out of a big deal
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: where I sold half of my company and then ended
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: up buying half back. But that whole process was so
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: eye opening, and I just needed to get all of
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: that business advice and wisdom that i'd learned and paid
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: a lot of money for into a book so that
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: people would learn it but enjoy it instead of it
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: being another dry business book, because we don't need another
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: one of those.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: There's plenty.
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: They're great, good But I've always thought, and this was
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: my whole principle with beauty, if you're having fun and
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: you're entertained, you don't even really notice you're learning. Like
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: that was how I wanted to write about beauty.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: In the beginning and relationships.
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: That was the main reason I wrote the book. But
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: in the book, I do touch on a lot of
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: protecting your equity and not giving away too much of
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: your business at the start and treating that equity like gold.
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: And I definitely learned that too late in the piece.
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: And I tell every founder, like, if you don't have
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: to take in investors, if it's only for financial reasons,
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: please bootstrap it yourself, because one day your company could
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: be worth a hundred million dollars and that five percent
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: is worth a lot of money. Yeah, so hold it tight,
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: only release it when you absolutely have to. And if
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: you do do it, make sure the equity are giving
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: away is really getting good use out of that investment,
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: so they have connections, infrastructure, whatever you're trying to do.
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: For us, it was we were trying to go big
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: overseas and have the boots on the ground that the
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: people over there who could help us do that. So
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: it was very calculated in that sense.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: But if you're just.
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: Doing it because you think you need some more money
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: because you want to do a bigger run or something,
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: take a loan, ask your parents. I think there might
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: be other ways do it. And then when you've scaled
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: and you're at a profitable state and the company is
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: worth a lot more, you'll be very grateful. Not to
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: say never take investment, but just to be really, really
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: considered with it.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: No, I think that's good.
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: Because you've got the ideas, you've got the community, you've
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: got what the people with money want. They don't have that,
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: So to treat it like gold because it is very special.
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: And that's how I got through millions of meetings with
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: fifteen guys in blue suits like just trying to make
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: my business to get it for a cheaper price, and
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: I'm just like, guys.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: We're not in distress. This business is fucking incredible and
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: you're lucky to be sitting here. So don't come at
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: with that. I love like this.
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: I will protect this brand at aucust. And that's why
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: you buy it back because you're like, no, no, yeah,
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: you don't get a hands on this, see the vision?
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: And it comes back to trusting yourself, yes, because I
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: think a lot of people go to that avenue or
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: seek help in those ways because they don't believe that
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: they can do it yeah themselves.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: And yeah, like you said, that doesn't apply all the time.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it is a very considered thing and it makes sense.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: But I do think that in the beginning, a lot
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: of people like I can't do this on my own,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: like I need the help of somebody else. But maybe
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: you just need to take it a little bit more
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: slow and.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: You can do it yourself.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: The transparency behind running a business is it's becoming more
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: and more transparent, like people and founders and business women
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: are opening up a lot more, but it's still from
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: the outside, it's still very high glam and you know,
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: the business bitch. Yeah, we still have this like especially
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: even with like journalism, we all still are going back
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: to like how to lose a guy in ten days
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: and never wears proud of being like that looks so fun,
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: which you would know because of your journalism background. But
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: it's obviously a lot more intense in the bts and
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: behind the scenes that I'm like, how do you embrace
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: I know you said that you thrive in chaos. How
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: do you embrace calm when everything feels like chaos?
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Great question, I think I get. I get very anxious.
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: I get well, I was very very anxious, but then
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: I got on hit and my god, I'm a different person.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: So I now, you guys are too young for that.
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: But the perimenopausal shit is real, and I'm so grateful
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: there's dialogue around it and education now, because I didn't
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: know what it was till a couple years ago. And
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: I think at the time, when I was doing my
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: deal and I was writing a book and I had
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: young children, I was not good. I was so anxious,
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: I wasn't sleeping, it wasn't much fun. And now I
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: feel like a very different person. So I think getting
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: my hormones right, wow, massive massive change. And my anxiety
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: still pops up, but that's probably more rooted in perfectionism
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: and wanting to do the best job possible rather than
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: the responsibility I feel as a founder and someone that
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: is responsible for a whole team and at customer base
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: as well as my family. So I think that has
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: been a huge one. And I think a lot of
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: women in their forties gas lighting themselves, going, oh, it's
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: just a busy time, or you know, I'm not sleeping
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: because X, or you know things will come down Soon's
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: that's the refrain that we tell ourselves again and again.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't need to be that hard.
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: You know, and there could be like quite an obvious
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: health problem that needs looking into and that will help
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: a lot.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: I think that's great advice when we need to stop
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: gas lighting themselves.
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: Oh god, I did, and I was like, oh, you know,
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: just because this or you know, if I just do this,
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: then maybe I'm not exiting writer or no alcohol that
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: will fix everything, you know, whatever it was, you know
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: that would be the fix.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: But surprise, it was my homemones. Yeah.
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: If you think about what changes to your body when
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: you go through puberty or when you have a baby,
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: big shit happens. So of course when you're on the
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: tail end of all of that, big shit's going to happen.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: I think it's amazing that we wouldn't suspect that as
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: like the number one. Yeah, yeah, that's so interesting.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: And you spoke about perfectionism just now, and you did
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: say in a recent interview there's this very dangerous idea
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: of perfection.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Of course, there have been failures.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: What role do you think failures should play in our lives?
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: And how do you reframe it when it does happen?
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Just a lesson?
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, every failure is a lesson, and we're having failures
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: from the day we're born. And whether that's falling over
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: when we're learning to walk, or making a brand that
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: seemed like fun at the time but didn't have a
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: commercial sensibility around it, whatever it might be, it's a lesson.
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: And I feel like I've had a few runs on
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: the board, so I have the privileged success, and that
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: lends me to feel a bit comfortable and complacent, and
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: I hate that. So I want to be challenged. And
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: I think people who lead an increasingly frictionless life because
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: they have more success, more money, bigger team, the strivers
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: will seek challenges and they will seek hard things.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: Whether that's healthy or not. I just think that's the
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: human condition. So I like lessons because otherwise how am
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: I going to grow? That's why I go no further,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera.
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: So having hard things in my life, like trying to
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: write a novel or running a business, Yeah, that shit
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: makes me spin.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you do this though, but then
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: if you have a bad day and.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: Then you're like fucking hate this shit, being like why
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: am I doing this, and then you're like, nah, I'm
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: doing it because I love it.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: I do Yeah, yeah, I mean you have.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: That's why you have to do something you love, because
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: when you do have those moments that's a failure or
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: it's a hard day or whatever. You have to be like,
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: You're still going to get up tomorrow and do it. Yeah,
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: it'll whinge about it, Yeah, but I'm still going to
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: do it. Let's talk about your beauty wisdom, because you've
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: seen many skincare a trend come and go, and as
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: someone who has been on both sides as editor and entrepreneur,
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: what is the skincare truth you wish every woman would
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: stop ignoring?
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: You know it?
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: Is?
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: It gonna be scar Listen.
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: I I'm genuinely astonished where this is all heading with
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: the girls in their twenties and the guys, because I
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: felt like we were really getting somewhere and it has
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: completely gone backwards and we're into tan lines again and
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: there are tanning products in my feet and I'm like,
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: how have we got here? Meanwhile, people like me who
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: are manufacturing and spending tens and thousands of dollars on
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: each product to get it safe and properly ready for
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: the market and so cosmetically elegant that people will actually
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: wear it.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: And not think about it.
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a big thing for all of us, is
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: making modern sunscreens that people will wear, because then they
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: can't complain about the texture.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: No, no, we fix that. You have no excuse. Yeah,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: is that two.
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: In three Australians will develop skin cancer at some point.
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: It's a real statistic And I just don't know how
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: that message is not getting threat. It's like everyone' vaping again.
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: Maybe it's a nihilistic tendency. They don't think the world's
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: going to be around in twenty years.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: But I'm really I'm shocked at the cavalier attitude towards cancer. Yeah.
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: So I feel like, but you know, vanity coming into it.
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: I decided at like sixteen or seventeen that I was
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: going to stop tanning because quite I didn't want to
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: look fifty when I was forty. Now I'm forty four.
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: I'm proud of my skin. I stay out at the
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: sun and you can get all the lasers and procedures that.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: You want, but you cannot it will show.
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's why I say you face stops at
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: you boobs, because even if you have a stunting face
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: because you've bothered to put on screen on. Guess what
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: we're always showing this. We're showing this, We're showing our knees.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: And places you release suspects. So please look up to
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: your skin because yes, it's young and tanned and bouncy now,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: but you will age hopefully if you're lucky. Yeah, you
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: look direct that.
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: And also if you're using high strength acids, like if
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: you're in there using your red and only nail and
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: you are not.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Protecting, you're doing so much damage. And you did mention
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: tan lines.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: But are there any other beauty trends or products that
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: make you roll your eyes?
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: I am pretty chill about that. I think like everyone
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: have fun. That's the ethos of go To is like
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: beauty shouldn't be so serious. You're getting so up tired
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: about this. It's lotions and potions. Have fun.
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: You're just making yourself have a nice time and ideally
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: getting healthier skin or the complexion you want.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: So I don't judge you on. I'm very prone to influence.
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: So I buy a lot of shit that I don't
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: use much role as led you name it, I've done it,
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: I've bought it. And what it always comes back to,
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: and this is where our focus is, of course, is
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: the gold standard, very proven ingredients like vitamin C, sbf AHA,
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: vitamin A, and they will consistently get you better results.
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: So if you just did a decent daily skincare routine
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: and got the occasional procedure, you get your injections, get
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: whatever you want. But if you're just doing that on
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: the day, that you will see a big, big difference.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: I love that. I love it being like you have free.
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: Will if you want to do twelve steps, two twelve steps,
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: but if you want to do two, we've got you.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: That's what got this point is like, it shouldn't be
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: that hard.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to ask you a really hard question.
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: What's like obviously, parents when they have their product babies,
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: it's like, no.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: You can't chruse the hybrid. Oh I can't.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: Well, I want to know what products you think would
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: be illegal to discontinue from.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Go to AH.
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: It's I think face Heero because it's just got, you know,
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: hundreds of thousands of five star reviews.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Everyone loves it. It becomes like it's our gateway product.
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: People use it and then they find the whole brand
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: because it's so easy to put into your routine.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: I use it mornay and night.
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: I use it on rashes, I use it on my children,
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: I use it every my husband use.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: It in his bid. It's just especially in which it's a.
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: Beautiful booster and it just gives you the glowe. And
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: then now we've made a clarifying version.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: So people who are like oil no, if they have
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: an oil or digested skin or breakouts, then we made
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: a dry earl that really sorts it out.
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: And our clinicals are amazing, so I feel like we've
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: got oils covered that if you're older, I would say
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: very amazing. Retin now retinol is what most people default to,
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: but retin now retten how to hide is sort of
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: a new ingredient, and that's what we use because it's
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: a lot more tolerable, but it's a lot more strong,
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: so you can get the results without the irritation.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: What's like the most underrated product from go to that
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: more people need, that needs to be like a could
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: set the removalist.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: It's the clay mask.
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: It is so good. A lot of people like our
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: sheet mask transformazing. They sell maybe one every minute.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's me, thank you, just me every minute.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: I like walk back into Meca and I'm like another.
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I use one this morning, but their their magic
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: pre event, pre makeup or if the next morning. But
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: the removal list is a clay mask, but it's very
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: hydrating and brightening, and it is a secret weapon. So
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: if you want to have good skin, that's not just
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: a serum based good skin. So trans amazing is amazing.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: But it's sort of surface, but you are it.
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: Just trusts me. It smells like bubble gum. It's fun
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: to use. Use it once a week and you'll see big,
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: big results, specially if you're having some coggestion. You can
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: just spot use it on your shirt or something. But
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: I love it, and that's my secret room. So sometimes
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: I'm just sitting at my desk and I start to
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: feel old and bored and wrinkley, and I'll go and
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: do the removal list and slather myself in oils and
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: creams and I feel a million.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: But what's next? What can we look forward to?
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: So so so much coming out for Go too. Wearing
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: some of the new stuff today, I'm very exciting because
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: it's that final testing where we're it's pretty much perfect.
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: It's just like a tweak of fragrance, so a lot
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: to come in different categories. Yeah, yeah, so we're excited.
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: We're very good at skincare, but we want to play
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: in other areas.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, you just let that sit, okay, marine,
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: but we're going to look after you and you'll love it.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm yeah. Yeah, And I do have
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: one final question.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: This is incredibly selfish of me to ask, but every year,
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: your husband bakes a cake. Yeah, yeah, to put it mildly,
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: and this has been a tradition for a many a years. Yeah,
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: do you have a favorite cake that has.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: That's been made? I have a memory that always makes
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: us laugh. When he made the Uni donkey.
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: It was meant to be a unicorn, but it was
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: for my daughter's I think fourth birthday. I was in lockdown.
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: We're in a rental and he so he couldn't have
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: anyone come and help, which he normally has at least
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: one guy to come over and like help him balance.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: Things or yeah that makes sense. Yeah, so he didn't
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: have and it was pretty ambition. She didn't have his
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: sous chef.
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: Is that it?
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: And I could still hear banging at five in the morning.
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: Normally I it taps like no one sleeps that.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: Night, trust me.
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: But by about five I was like, Okay, I need
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: to check on this guy because I guess he's repetitive banging.
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: And I came down the stairs and he was trying
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: to make the cloud of glitter above your.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Cave sit and he just looked up for me. He
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: looked so broken and drunk, quite drunk, and we just
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: pissed ourself laughing and like on the floor was honestly,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: he was absolutely delirious and I was like what And
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: it was the ugliest thing. The teeth was so wrong
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: and big. I mean, she loved it and it was beautiful.
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: And it's the thought that counts with us, and the
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: care and the time and the tradition. And never know
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: how he does it because when I go to bed,
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: he doesn't know what he's doing.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: And then in the morning, this perfect.
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: Perfection, perfectly to the brief. Yeah, what the kid has
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: asked for, it is like he's done it.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: He's never failed. I'm so impressed.
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: You know, it's engineering and maths though, That's why I said,
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: should I be helping?
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: It is not your areas exactly. Everything he's measuring is shopping.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Is it's awful?
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not, it's hard, but it's still yeah, believe him exactly.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: But we do love to wrap up our interviews with
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: our guests with the same question, and it's what's your
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: biggest life lesson on your journey so far?
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: I think it is a cliche, but it is a
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: cliche for a reason, which is too trust your instinct.
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: And as women, we I think we do inherently and
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: we've been taught as like as a safety mechanism to trust,
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: you know, is this the right place for me to
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: walk at night, or is this the room it's going
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: to be safe for me? Or I think we use
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: our instinct in a lot of ways that we don't
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: even really consider. But I think there's more focuses pulled
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: when you are making big financial decisions or business decisions
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: or reputational decisions. So it hasn't let me down yet
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: and it's been the thing that has guided me this far.
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: And I think it's very easy to doubt yourself and
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: judge yourself and worry.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: But.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: Don't just trust your gut.
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: And there's a wonderful woman, Ellen Langan, and she was
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: on a podcast recently saying that don't worry about making
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: the right decision.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: Make the decision right. And I love that.
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: Because you never know what's going to happen. Say you
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: get a job offer in London and you're really torn.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Do you go? Do you not go?
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: Her point is if you go and you believe that
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: was the right decision, something could happen and it could
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: all fall apart over there.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: You don't know if you stay, same thing could happen there.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: So you actually do it.
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: You don't know, you don't know what the universe holds,
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: So just choose without too much thought and make that decision, right.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: I feel you just waste my mind. Yeah, no, No,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: it's brilliant sharing a good word. Yeah, I love that.
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: That's amazing because we attached so much to the hope
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: of making the right decision. And the gut is a
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: really important player in that, particularly when it comes to
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: selling a business and something very heavy like that.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: And I remember asking other founders, how did you know?
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: What did you do? And no one's got.
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: The clear answer, And there's no guidebook. That's the other thing,
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: Like there's a whole business around founders, like become a success.
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: Here's how you become your own boss and become an
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: entrepreneur and they build and build and build, and they
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: make you go to conferences and panels and stuff. When
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: you do it, it's crickets. Who's going to help you
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: when you're a success. No one's going to tell you, Oh,
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: this is when you should be hiring a CEO. This
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: is when you should be outsourcing your warehouse, this is
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: when you should be you know, doing same day delivery.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Read. This is a ship. You have to make up
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: as you go and you have to hire smart people
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: to help you do that. That's amazing. Thank you so
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: so much.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: It has been an absolute pleasure to having your been
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: a dream come true and a bucket list moment for
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: a spise.
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: So thank you to m ik Made for making this
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: episode of Two Proachings Happened.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: We love being in your ear holes.
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: Goodbye magic Bye