Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Wired To Hunt Podcast #87: The Top Conservation Issues of 2016 w/Whit Fosburgh

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Wired To Hunt Podcast #87: The Top Conservation Issues of 2016 w/Whit Fosburgh · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyon, and this is episode number tayn
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the show. We're joined by Witt Fostburg of the Theodore
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, and we're going to be discussing the
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: top conservation issues for two thousand and sixteen. All Right,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, brought to you
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: by Sick Gear. And today we're doing something that I
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: want to continue to do more often here on the podcast,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: and let's dive into the hortant issues related to conservation
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: across this country and across North America in general. I mean,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I know that I do and we all do love
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: enjoy talking about exciting hunts and big deer, new strategies,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: all that kind of good stuff. But we couldn't do
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: any of these things if we didn't have wild lands
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: and healthy animal populations on those lands which we can pursue.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: So I decided that I and we here at Wired
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: to Hunt, we all need to do a better job
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: at giving back and working towards these types of goals
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: and I'm hoping that maybe a few of you will
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: want to do that too. So, you know, over the
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: past year so we've had a number of episodes where
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: we've talked about these types of topics. We've talked with
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Stephen Ronnella, We've talked with Randy Newburgh, Shane Mahoney, UM
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: and a few are a few other people like that.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: But we want to continue and today I think we're
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: really gonna take a step in the right direction with
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: that is we're gonna be tackling the top conservation issues
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: for two thousand sixteen and joining us as someone who
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: I think is going to be perfect to help us
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: have that discussion. And that's what Fostburg, the President and
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: CEO of the Theodore Rose about conservation partnership. And if
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: some of you aren't familiar with what the TRCP is,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I'm going to let Wit tell you a little bit
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: more about them in just a few minutes, but at
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: a super high level, just to give you a basic idea. UM.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: TRCP is one. It's a conservation organization that I've been
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: really impressed with over recent years. I think that's because
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: their mission is is such an important one and it's
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: not focused, you know, just on one certain subset of hunters.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: You know, they're working for all hunters and anglers at
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: a high national level. It's not just deer hunters, not
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: just elk hunters, not just duck hunters or or anything
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: like that, which, you know, those types of conservation groups
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: obviously are important too. But I appreciate the Theodore Roosevelt
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Conservation Partnerships focus on habitat and you know the fact
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: that impacts all of our pursuits. So I think that's
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: pretty clear when you take a look at their mission
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: statement in which they talk about their mission being to
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: guarantee all Americans quality places to hunt and fish. So
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: with all that said, I know what can do much
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: better job of explaining what the tear scup is all
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: about and then share with us some interesting things about
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: what those top conservation issues are this year. But before
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: we get wet on the phone, we do need to
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: do what we do always on this episode or on
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: this podcast, and that's take a couple of minutes to
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: update you on what's going on new with me and
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Dan on the home front. So I don't know about you, Dan,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: but I'm kind of still recovering post a t A.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: How you doing. Yeah, I I ended up taking Friday
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: off as well. I got home about eight o'clock on
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Thursday night, so I had planned on go to work
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: going to work, but my wife begged me to stay
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: so I could watch the kids so she could get
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: some because she works out of the basement for her
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: part time job. And uh so I stayed home kind
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: of relaxed this weekend and played with the kids and
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: went to one of my buddy's birthday parties and just
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: kinda kind of was a little lazy. That's that's needed
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: after the long days we had last week. I'd say,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I tell you what I made, the mistake of wearing
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: a new pair of shoes to the show and walking
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: doing all that walking was uh it broke my shoes in,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: but it also broke my feet. Yeah, And you can
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: always tell. It's like you're walking for hours and hours,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: and at least for me, I don't feel it until
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: I sit down. And then when I finally sit down
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: for a meeting or something, all of a sudden, like whoa,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: there's a huge literal relief off of my feet now right,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: So same here. The once I got back on Friday,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: I was just kind of a lump on the log
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: I just needed to rest and recover a little bit.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: That's a lot of social interaction for me, you know,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: like after I sit in my office by myself most
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: of the time, and then all of a sudden was
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: talking to a million people for four days straight, so
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: that it wore me out and for me, like so
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: my goal there was to try to get as many
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: contacts for from as many people for for my podcast,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: and it's I said the same thing over and over
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: and over and over again, to the point where I
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: was going delirious. Did you ever like fall in an
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: autopilot mode and then like accidentally stay the wrong company
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: name or something like that? Uh? Yeah, I did, really Yeah.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: It was for a trail camera company. I just went
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: from one trail camera company to the next trail camera
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: company and I said their name, and the guy looked
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: at me funny, like like I insulted him or something.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Oh man, I can't blame it. After talking to that
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: many people, I do the same thing, right, So, so
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: hunting season is done for both of us. Now we're
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: in the the next phase of the season. I guess,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: like we always say, the season never really ends. It's
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: just onto the next phase, which is postseason and all
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: that good stuff. But I don't know about you, but
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: this time of year especially, I start thinking about these
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: bigger picture issues, like you know, all these different high
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: level national topics that influenced hunting and fishing. Um from
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: a conservation standpoint. Um, I've been doing a lot of reading.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I'm always doing a lot of reading, but reading particularly
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: these types of topics. So I don't know, I'm pretty
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: excited to dive into this and learn a bit a
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: little bit more, UM, are you? Yeah? Definitely, UM. I
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: love I love hearing this stuff because although I guess
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna call myself a wannabe conservationists because you know,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: I I spend the money on my tags, I follow
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: all the laws I don't you know, I don't go
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: out and I don't plant trees. You know, I'm a
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: member of I'm a member of some associations, but other
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: than that, I really don't do much. So it's it's
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: good to hear from these guys on what guys like
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: me can do to to be a better conservationist. Yeah.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: I think your situation is one that's probably common to
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: most guys and girls out there, you know, I think
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  Speaker 1: a lot of us realize these things are important, but
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: there's so much stuff going on. UM that's especially if
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: you're just kind of focused on, you know, what you're
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: doing on a day to day basis from a hunting standpoint,
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  Speaker 1: it's easy to not know about these bigger picture things
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  Speaker 1: that are happening that could really impact you and what
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: you do as a hunter or fisherman. But you never
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: know about it unless you're actively trying to follow certain
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: media places that they talk about these conservation issues and things.
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  Speaker 1: So there's some serious things going on in Washington, d C.
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  Speaker 1: And across the country that could really influence, you know,
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  Speaker 1: what we can do as deer hunters at home, or
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: what we could do in the future if we want
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: to go on trips to different parts of the country
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: or whatever. Um, all sorts of stuff going on that
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  Speaker 1: I think just happens behind the scenes that if we
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: didn't know about it, or if more people knew about it,
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  Speaker 1: I think more people would take action to make a difference.
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  Speaker 1: So I think one way that I'm trying to um,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: trying to make an impact, I hope a positive impact
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: is by shedding light on some of these issues that
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: maybe a lot of deer hunters don't know about, but
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  Speaker 1: we should so, right, That's that's what I hope we
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: can get today at this conversation is just bring awareness
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  Speaker 1: to some important topics that maybe are flying under the radar. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: that's one thing that I've I've found it's it's to
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: do something like this. You can't really do it half asked.
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  Speaker 1: You have to make an attempt to focus on following uh,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: you know, something like what we're doing today or the
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  Speaker 1: National Deer Alliance or or whatever whatever you're whatever your cause.
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  Speaker 1: I guess is it literally takes focus and a real
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: drive to do it because you know, then you get
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: someone like me, who you know, I get to hunt,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: but the majority of my time is spent as father
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  Speaker 1: and husband, and there's other things that consume my time,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: and you really got to focus on going out and
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: finding this information. Yeah, that's that's the truth. I think
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  Speaker 1: that's probably one of the greatest challenges is just keeping
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  Speaker 1: people aware of keeping people aware of what's going on,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: and then number two, you know, finding a way to
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  Speaker 1: make it easy for people take action on some of
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: these things. I think that's you know, the second big
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  Speaker 1: channels we've talked about previous episodes is just, you know,
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  Speaker 1: how do we actually do something about it, because sometimes
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  Speaker 1: it can kind of seem intimidating. You know, what can
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: little old me actually do to make an impact on
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  Speaker 1: this big issue? Um? And lots of times, you know,
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  Speaker 1: maybe writing a letter or sending an email, or showing
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: up at a rally or talking to a congressman or
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: a woman or anything like that, and those things sometimes
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: can be tough to do if we don't know exactly
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: how we're supposed to do it or when to do it,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: or whatever it might be. So, UM, I don't know.
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  Speaker 1: That's one of the things I want to think about
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: this year and try to find more opportunities to to
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: raise awareness about certain things and then you know, demonstrate
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: easy ways to take action. I think if we can
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: do that, we can make we can make a positive difference.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of one of my two thousand and
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: sixteen New Year's resolutions is to us work on those
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: things and then actually practice what I preach. You know,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: I really want to make sure that we're doing the
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: same things we talk about that everyone should do. So
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know that's my my hopes and dreams for
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: for this year and for this episode. Um, so, I
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: think we could probably learn a lot more, not by
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: listening to you and me, but but just getting Wit
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: on the phone and having him share his wealth of information.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: So if you're if you're ready, i'd say we should
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: give what a call. I think Wit is a badass name,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Like I think like if I met a guy named Wit,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: I would never want to fight him. I'll give you
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: that I won't either. So let's stay, let's stand on
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: what's good said. Okay, alright, alright, let's take a very
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: quick break for a word from our sponsors of this podcast,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: and then we'll give what a call. So, as we
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: do every week, we're joined now by SITA Product category
• 10:32
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• 10:35
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• 10:37
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  Speaker 1: So today I wanted us to elaborate a little and
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  Speaker 1: just an idea to an actual finished product that we
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  Speaker 1: somedays see on the shelves. So here's Dennis. Yeah. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: so for us, we have our athletes and our ambassadors
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  Speaker 1: and the folks that we work with who kind of
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  Speaker 1: come up with, know, this is what I need or
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: this is what I don't have, and it flows, you know,
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  Speaker 1: to me, and I'm sitting there thinking about, Okay, well,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: how can might we address that or what might we use?
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• 11:13
  Speaker 1: really experts in apparel and think about, well, how can
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  Speaker 1: a variety of technical folks who understand materials, people who
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  Speaker 1: understand design, people understand getting things done, you know. So
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: we have a it's kind of an interesting group and
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: you know, a lot more hands touch it than probably
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: most people realize. So there you have it. And if
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: you are interested in learning more about sick Gear or
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: new items they have in store for us in two
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen, you can visit sick to gear dot com.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: And now let's give what a call alright with us.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Now on the line is wit Fosberg. Welcome to show
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: with thank you. It's great to be on the show. Yeah.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: We we were just chatting a couple of minutes ago
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: about kind of a renewed goal that we have here
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: at Wired to Hunt and with a podcast in two
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen to just you know, talk to focus
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: more on conservation related issues. We focus so much on
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: the hunts and strategies and you know how we can
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: be successful hunters, which is great, but you know, none
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: of that's possible if we don't have wild places and
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: animals to pursue. So we're excited to have you on
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: the line because I know that you are someone who
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: is engaged in this topic. It sounds like probably every
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: day of your life most likely. So for those who
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: aren't familiar with with TRCP in with yourself. Could you
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: possibly give us a quick high level overview of what
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership is and what you do
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: with him. Sure. Uh. The partnership was created in two
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: thousand and two UM, sort of as an outgrowth of
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: the fact that the forces of his voice had become
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: pretty deluded. In Washington, you had, you know a lot
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: of individual species groups working on their little niche issues
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: and doing great stuff, you know, restoring wetlands, you know,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: fixing up trout streams, you know, bringing back quite you know,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: a wild turkey, you name it. But they rarely, rarely
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: ever worked together and put their collected muscle to the
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: same big issues. We're really biggest, biggest, such big issues,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: there were too much for any one group to tackle,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: you know, the federal budget, agriculture policy, public lands policy,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: you know some of those really overlaying issues. So the
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: fellow named Jim Range, who had been a long time hunter, angler,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: hill staffer, who decided he was going to create an
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: organization that brought everybody together to work on conservation access.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: And so today with about forty six different partner organizations
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: that range from you know, the Turkey Federation and Ducks
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Unlimited to Coastal Conservation Association too, you know q d
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: M A White Tails Unlimited. You know, really a broad spectrum.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: But also the Land Trust Community a f l C
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: I oh, because there twelve million members hunting Fish Outdoor
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Industry Association. Because even though R E I E M. S.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: TH stores may not be totally in line with all
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: of our issues of sportsmen, you know, they grew with
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: that n of what we work on, and we can
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: really use that extra collective economic muscle make our argument.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: So we're we have the forty six partner groups can
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: also have a corporate Council of conservation minded companies. They
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: come together see what they can do to help the causes,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: and those range from Orvis and plum Creek to Sitka
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: and schlumbers a. So again a good cross section of
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: corporate America. But companies really care about conservation. So what
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: what does your daily life or what's your daily role
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: look like in that? Because it sounds like this is
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of sounds like a lot of work. Really
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine, you know, it's uh yeah, it's all
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: federal policy focused. So I'm not out there, you know,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: fixing up a Wetland. I'm not running a you know,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: a Trout in the classroom class or a Jakes class
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: or anything like that. You know, we are focused on
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: what the federal government is doing or not doing and
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: how that affects our hunting and fishing and access. And so,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: you know, part of my job as the CEO is
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: you know, raising money for the organization. We have about
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: a four million dollar annual budget. We have the twelve
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: staffers here in d C. Got about another dozen or
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: so out in the field, primarily Rocky Mountain West the
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: public land states, but also in you know Louisiana, um,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: you know, in some other places that are you know
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: more not exactly public land states. And then so we
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: do is we really identify, you know, the issues that
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: are important to our members and our our partners, and
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: you know, we organized working groups. So it was something
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: like agriculture. We have a you know, wildlife and agriculture
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: work in group. It consists of physists, Forever Duck's Unlimited
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Trout Unlimited, you know, the Ale Deer Foundations mothers. They
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: have a real you know steak and what happens on
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: private and agricultural lands. And we get together and we
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: coordinate and we developed joint positions. We do joint press,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: we do joint fly insto Washington, we do joint organizing
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: out in the field. We tend to be, you know,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: sort of the group that tends to pull folks together
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: and get them organizing these bigger issues as well as
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: providing sometent of expertise, because this is what we do
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: here in d C. Do gosh. I mean, when I
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: think about when I think about that type of thing
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: going on in d C, when I think about just
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: these conservation issues and the kind of play that they
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: do or don't get into washingt d C. I just
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: think about the chaos of what seems to be going
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: on in Washington, and my assumption I kind of when
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: I think about this is it's got to be really,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: really difficult to get across your message to some of
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: these people. As I think, you know, based on what
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: I've seen, a lot of our country is becoming more
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: and more disconnected from topics like habitat and conservation, all
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: these things. Is more and more people are urbanized. You know,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: do you face some significant challenges when you're trying to
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: speak to these people in Washington about these issues that
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: maybe they can't relate to it all personally. Yeah, you know,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: we do because I think it makes some really good points.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, the nation is changing. We're becoming a you know,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: a less rural country and working a more urban country.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: A lot of our old protectors in Congress and the
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: old days, you know, listen, everybody hunted and fished and
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: it was sort of taken for granted that, you know,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Congress was look out for interests. I mean, those times
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: have changed, so we which is really why you know,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: we have to sort of band together and make sure
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: that you know, not just thinking about something from the
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: older perspective or white tail perspective or turkeys perspective, but
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: really thinking collectively because you know, you sort of look
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: at some of the gun issues. An attack on any
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: gun law any place is perceived as an attack on everybody.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: But with us in conservation, it's exact opposite. If it's
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: a says of problem, it's not really a duck problem,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: so not it's a duck problem. It's not a trout problem.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: It's not a red fish problem. So we die. It's
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: death with thousand cuts. And what we try to do
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: is bring together and present, you know, in a collective fashion,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: you know, what our cases and I think we have
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: a pretty strong case because we tend to be you know,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: the middle of the road people, you know, mois hunters,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: angler as, they tend to be pretty moderate people, not
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: extremeists on one side or the other. They care about conservation,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: they're they've been brought up in it, you know, they
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: get it, and it's something they see as a fabric
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: of this country. And so I think that you know,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: whereas you know, a lot of environmental issues has been
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: really heavily politicized and you know, polarize. These are buying
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: the rape and ruin guys on one side, and they
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: save everything people on the other side. And we can
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: we can sort of steer that middle ground and really
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: espouse solutions that make sense and that the majority of
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: folks can get behind. But part of the challenge has
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: been sort of getting our message to stand out in
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: you know, the broad clutter of Washington. So instead of
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: talking about what's good for quail or what's good for
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: hasn't and we tend to talk about the jobs that
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: hunting and fishing provide in the rural economies. I mean,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: people don't really think about it, but you know, outdoor
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: recreation including hunting, fishing, the six billion dollar year industry.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: That makes it the third largest sector of the entire economy,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Bigger than oil and gas, bigger than pharmaceuticals, and we're
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: only behind healthcare and the financial sector. But we're so diffuse,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: so disorganized, nobody knows that. So part of our challenge
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: is really presenting it in different ways and using a
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: lot of facts to back up our arguments. He speaking
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: of speaking of kind of these challenges of getting these
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: various voices to come together. One, uh, I guess one
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: aspect of the outdoor recreation community, or one portion of
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: it being if you want to call them, the non
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: consumptive users like backpackers, bikers, hikers, all that kind of stuff.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: We hear a lot about how hunters and anglers pay
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: for conservation in this country, right. We talked about how
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: our license fees and the taxes and everything that from
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: our purchases go to really manage most of these places,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: to provide allow of the protection for these places. Um,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: this is something I've just recently been hearing more and
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: more about, and I think it was something that actually
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: was proposed as a bill some number of years ago
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and was shot down um, but recently have heard more
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: people rumbling about it. Do you think that non consumptive
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: use or is there a push for non consumptive users
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: too to begin to give financially back in some portion.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Maybe there's a recreational use fee or is that something
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: that's does that make sense? Would that be good for
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: all of us? For hunters and anglers or from hunting
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: an angling perspective. Is it better than we foot the
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: bill for conservation? Well, you know, I think there are
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: you know, two arguments. One, you know, I think it's
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, because we foot the bill, we have more
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: ownership and you know, the management of the resources, and
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: that's a good thing. But at the same time, you know,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: it's a shrinking pie out there and we cannot afford ourselves,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: our community to pay for the stuff the way we've
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: done it in the past. But I think it makes
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: total sense to you know, have you know some sort
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: of see excise tax whatever you may want to call
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: it on other segments of the community. Heck, if you
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: did something on mountain bikes and that was dedicated towards
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: trail maintenance on our public lands, you know, bird seed
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: and that goes toward neotropical migratory bird conservation. You know,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of ways that you
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: can you know, earmark some of these funds to go
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: very specifically with you know, some of the interest groups
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: you're associated with them. But you know, it's a hard lift.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, Congress doesn't want to be seen as passing
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: new taxes. You know, a lot of the outdoor recreation
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: community argues and I think pretty fairly that they get
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: hammered on tariffs and things like apparel and fabrics, and
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: if you can lowered the tariffs some then yeah, they
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: would love to see an exercise tack to have that
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: money they're already paying go to conservation in this country
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: and not just going into the general debt. So I
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: think there's a real room to have that happening. There
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: is a Bluebernd panel that's been assembled um by the
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Association Official Wildlife Agency has to look at this very
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: question and it's being chaired by Johnny Morris at Best
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Pro Shops and Dave frieden Falls is the former governor
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: of Wyoming. And that panel has been you know, taking
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: testimony meeting for the past six months or so. And
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: I think we'll be coming out with his recommendations U
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: in the next two months if I am correct, and
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: then we'll see where that leads. Um. Some of this
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: may be volunteering in the part of industry, so it
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: may require you know, new legislation congressionally, but there was
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: just such a sense right now that any increase in
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: revenue is a new tax, that it's going to be
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: a tough flooding. I mean, we we saw how hard
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: it was to get the price of the Duck stamp increased,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: which we did, you know, a year before last, and
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: you know that is a straight user fee. I mean,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: the Duck Honors were asking for that to be increased
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: so they could consider more wet lands, but it was
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: a multi year slog to get that through Congress. Yeah,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: I cannot imagine the challenge of doing something like that,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: or working with these sometimes very uh separate entity or
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: groups of people. I'm trying to bring them together towards
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: a common cause. Although sometimes you would think it makes
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: sense to work together, I imagine there's fringe elements of
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: both that don't want to. So yeah, and that's always
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: going to be the case. So you just basically, you know,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: pretty much ignoring those people, but you know that of
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: the focus are kind of in that middle range you
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: can work with. You may not agree on everything, but
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: let's focus on the things we do agree on and
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: not to things we disagree on. I mean, that's one
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: of the fundamental problems of Washington, the way that today
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: is we let the things we disagree on, you know,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: dictate our relationships with everything else. And that's just not
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: the way it ought to work, because nothing ever gets done.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: How much how much of Washington I use that word
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: in quotations is uh, you scratch my back, I'll scratch
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: your back kind of mentality that may not actually do
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: what is absolute best for conservation, but it helps us
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: gain a little bit of momentum going forward. You know,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Washington has changed a lot in recent years, and it's
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: it is some of the old rules have kind of
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: broken down, and so it's actually much tougher today to
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: get stuff done than it used to be because there
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: used to be much more of that high scratch your back,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: you scratch my back kind of stuff that went on,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: and even that, I mean as distasteful somethings that was,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: you coul at least get stuff done. Even that is
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: you know, much harder today because there's just some of
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: the rules that are changed in Congress and just some
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: of the general polarization out there because nobody wants to
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: be perceived or been be described as working with the enemy. So,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: you know, it's it's tough. I think this will come around,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: And really the only way it makes a change is
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: when you know, sort of that that quiet middle majority
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: you know, starts, you know, saying that, you know, let's
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: be sensible, let's do what everyone knows needs to be done,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: fix some of these problems. Yeah, I can imagine this
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: type of conversation. I could talk to you for about
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: three hours just about what's going on with with these
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: types of things, but that's probably not our best use
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: of of our time. I kind of want to make
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: sure we're we focus from here and out on the
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: issues that are happening that are impacting, you know, impacting
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: the land, impacting our habitat, impacting our ability to hunt
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: to access these places. So my my kind of thought
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: process was, maybe we could you know, here on a
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: high level, what you think are the top issues from
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: a conservation standpoint across the country. You know right now
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: that we need to be thinking about and then from
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: there maybe we can dive into each one individually and
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: really get into the nitty gritty of it. Does that
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: sound like a pretty solid playing to you, Yes, sounds great.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: I think the just sort of top level and unless
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna hit everything, because you know, some of
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: your listeners are gonna have other ideas and they'd be
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: right those big issues. But I just think that, you know,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: in terms of the things that I see us working
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: on public lands is probably number one, just because you
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: know they're under such threats right now. And you see
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: this clown show that's happening on Oregon with the Nortons
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: taking over the you know, the right National Eife refuge,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: and that's emblematic of some of the dysfunction on our
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: public lands and some of the hostility out there. And
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: and listen, we've got six six million acres of public
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: lands open for hunting and fishing in this country. Her
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: majority of was open for hunting and fishing. And that
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: goes away somehow, then we're all in trouble. Uh. The
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: second part I would say is related to that would
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: be access and not just access to our public lands,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: and that's an important part of it. But also how
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: do we encourage landowners to open up the private lands
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: for public access. I mean, we've seen the demographic shifts
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: you know that are happening and a lot more no
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: trespassing findes going up and a lot more leases as
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: opposed to just open lands, and that's going to have
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: a direct result on hunter recruitment over time, and that's
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: not our interest. I'd say. Third is uh, forest management
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: in particular public lands. It's really tough to do management,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: even wildlife management, even management to reduce forest fire risk today,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: and something's gonna need be changed there in order to
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: make things work a little bit better. Um, I think
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: agriculture and the whole conservation reserve program. You know, I
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: think we've seen what happens when land goes out of
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: the RP with especially with peasant populations, some of the
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: upland bird populations. But also you know, do you use
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: that land heavily? And we have to beet pride of
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: these descendives for landowners to keep that land out of
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: production in conservation with extent they can. And then um yeah, Finally,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: I would say under the broad issue of sort of
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: engaging the next generation, it's not something that we do
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: and that you know, we're not out there, yeah, you know,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: like the Jakes or the green Wings or some of
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: the programs is that some of the big national conservation
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: groups have. But what we can we do on the
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: federal side to really you know, sort of help drive
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: you know, hunter and angler recruitment retention. UM. Yeah, So
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: I'd say those are some of the really big issues
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: right there. Okay, so we've got we've got a road
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: map in a lot to cover. And and I'm glad
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: you mentioned these topics because a lot of these things
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: were items on my mind that I've been following and
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: personally want to learn more about. And and given the
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: fact that I spend so much time looking into this stuff,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: and the fact that I'm still confused or want to
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: understand some of these things better, I can't imagine how
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: other people might. UM, you know, people need to hear
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: about these things. So I'm glad that that you can
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: help us with this with UM. And and that first
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: topic you brought up, public lands UM is so relevant
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: right now given what's happening in Oregon. But but I
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: think and I wonder if some people don't see the
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: tie in there, UM, with what's happening in Oregon right
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: now with the takeover of the refuge and how that
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: might be or how it very clearly seems to be
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: tied to this larger push to transfer and or sell
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: public lands. UM, can you give us? Can you give
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: us the low down on a what's happening in Oregon?
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: From you know, what do we need to know a
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: sportsman and women need to understand about what's happening there?
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: And then number two, what is what's going on with
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: this whole push for public lands transfer? Is that a
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: real threat? Yeah? So I think that I'll start with
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: the you know, the second issue first, which is, you know,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: sort of the broader issue of public lands transfer. Um.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: You know, about six hundred forty million acres of public
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: lands in this country and primarily in four main agencies
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: and ASA Bureau Land Management, US Forest Service, US Fish
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: and Wildlife Service, and the National park System, and all
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: those lands are open for hunting and fishing, exception of
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: some of the Park Service lands are not open for
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: hunting all in all about you know, if you think
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: about hunting, about half the hunters in America hunt some
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: or all the time on public land. And that may
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: be the majority of obviously that's in the West, but
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: even you know, I'm in East Coast guy. I grew
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: up in the outeron Duck Mountains of New York State.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: You know, it's state land, but still public land. Um.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: You know, they're you know near here in d C.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Got the George Washington National Forest that provides some great
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: hunt and fishing. So it's not just a west An issue.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: But in the West about three quarters of all behinding
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: happens of public lands. And there has been ever since
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: the over Roosevelt really created the public land network back
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: in the early nineteen hundreds, there has been you know
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of chasing from folks that want to get
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: their hands in that land, primarily industry, and have tried
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: to undo the public lands network. Um. There was a
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: great book written by ga named Timmy Egan who was
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: a former New York Times reformer, called The Big Burn.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: It talks about these huge fires in Montana, Idaho during
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: right after you know, THEA. Rosell's presidency, and how you
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: know that was really a galvanizing factor and having people
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: rally behind the public lands and all the pressures that
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: were to try to get rid of the public lands
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: at that time, and you know, we've seen that same
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: sort of thing you know, pop up periodically ever since.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Um you think back in you know, sort of the
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: old stage Brush rebellion during the nineteen eighties and uh,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: you know where you know people are demanding that you know,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: public lands burned over and sort of stuff like that.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: It was kind of a sideshow at that time. But
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: when we're seeing today the sort of an outgrowth is that,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: but a lot more sophisticated. We've seen a lot more
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: money going into this. Um. We have seen you know,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: sort of some of these I would just sort of
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: call them, you know, sort of dark money groups that
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: we see in politics had been funding this whole push,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: and it's at a sort of a different two level,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: you know, every emphasis one. They've been funding a bunch
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: of stuff at the state levels to encourage states to
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: demand that the public lands, the federal lands, the national
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: our national lands in those states be turned over to
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: the states. And that is coming through you know, there's
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: a variety of these groups. Something called the American Legislative
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Exchange Council has been writing all the bills that are
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: being pushed in these Western states, and really the purpose
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: behind that is to rally public support for this notion
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: of getting rid of the federal lands and to basically
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: give cover than to federal politicians. In d C. We
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: are the only ones that can transfer that land. I mean,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: you talk and demand as much as it wants that
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: the Feds turn over their land in that state is
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: not going to happen without and after Congress. So really,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: these state efforts were designed and you know something called
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: the American Lands Council is up there pushing this and
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: as multimillion dollar budget to lobby both state legislators as
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: well as the federal government on this very issue. And
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: you know their whole goal is to make this thing
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: mainstream because it sounds like a kookie idea, but you
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: know it's much more coordinated, there's a lot more money
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: behind it, and you know they're making a much more
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: serious effort with it. I mean to wit. In the
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: year before last Congress passed the set US Senate and
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Senator leaders from Murkowski, the chair of the National Resources Committee,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: proposed a non binding resolution that ought to be the
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: federal government's policy to transfer or sell off all of
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: the lands that are not national parks and national monuments
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: and it passed in the US Senate. So I mean,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: this is no longer just saying, you know, a kookie
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: idea that has no legs, and we see that, you know,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: things like this, and then the Clive and Bundy fiasco
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: back in Nevada where he just hasn't been paying any
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: of his grazing fees, you know, it was of a
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: million dollars to federal government decides to make it, you know,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: this cause about freedom, and you know, a bunch of
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: the he ha very you know, sort of right wing
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: you know politicians embrace that, which then he leads his
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: son to do this takeover of the refuge in Oregon.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: So I think these are all related. I think it's
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: at all. Each one is a sort of step up
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: from the last. The idea is just so so discontent
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: out there and to give cover to the federal politicians
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: to make this happen. So there's there's a lot of
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of questions I have in here are things
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: I've heard talked about that I think people have common
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: questions about what I want to make one point um
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: and it and it comes down to the fact that
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: topics like this so often become politicized. You know you
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: mentioned one aspect of this. You know, we'll see far
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: right and they're saying, well, this is a this is
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: a this is a this is a conservative issue. This
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: is something that if you're a conservative, you would support X.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: And then the other side there's people saying, well, no,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: if you don't support this, you're superliberal or blah blah
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah. And I think that the topic of
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: public lands and this is something that I'm not coming
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: up with. This is something I've heard Randy Newburgh say
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: a lot, and every time I hear him say, I'm
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: just like, yeah, hallelujah. Topics like this, like public lands.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: You mentioned there's you know, fifty of hunters either hunt
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: part of the time or all the time in public lands.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: If we don't have access to this land, we can't
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: do what we love to do. This is a hunting issue.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: This is a hunter and angler issue. This isn't a
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: democratic issue, This isn't a Republican issue. This isn't far
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: right or far left issue. This is a you and me,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: this is you and me thing, And so I would
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: I would argue this is a fundamentally American issue. I mean,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: you think about you know, go ahead and go to
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: England and try to do a hunt, and the only
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: way you're gonna do it is you can pay the
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: money to go on some private or someplace and shoot,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: you know, basically team animals. And you know, our system here,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: the whole North American model of you know, wildlife conservation
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: is grounded in that hunting and fishing are something that
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: everybody can do and we we don't have the opportunity
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: to do that on our public lands. And that's a
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: very shallow, you know, hollow thing. And uh, you know,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: so I think it's you know, I think this is
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: that as Americans as you can get, and it's been
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: supported by Republicans and Democrats, and that expansion the public
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: land system we have has been expanded by Ronald Reagan,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: by Richard Nixon. I mean, all these folks who are
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: not necessarily thought of as great environmentalists, they were really
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: good when it came to a lot of these public
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: lands issues. And you know they are you know, as
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: have Democrats as well. So this is the one issue conservation,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: hunting and fishing public lands that has never been a
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: part of an issue, and it's you know, it's in
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: some people's interest to naketive part of an issue today,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: but it certainly shouldn't be. What are the what are
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: the games for those lobbyists and those people who want
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: those lands turned turned over to the state. What is
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: the gain of that? Well, let's let's think about it. So,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: all right, let's say all the land in Utah or
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Nevada gets turned over to that state. Then the state
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: has the ability to do a couple of things with it.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: It can manage exactly the way the sandge managing right now.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: But the fact is they would never be able to
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: afford to do that, so they want't even deal that.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: They want to deal forward the firefighting costs a loan
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: in those lands. So then they have a couple of choices.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: They can either raise taxes pay for the management those lands,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: or they can lease nut industry and generate profit, or
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: they can sell them Outright now, all the states were
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: granted a whole bunch of lands as a part of statehood.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: Almost all those states have sold those lands off. So
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: I think we have a pretty good idea what's going
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: to happen. They're not gonna be raising taxes on their
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: citizens to maintain these lands. They're either going to develop
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: them or they're gonna sell them off, and that benefits
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: the folks that can either buy them or you can
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: make money off and creep if I'm wrong, but don't.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Most state governments have an obligation. If there's state owned land,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: the obligation is to manage that for profit to support
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: various uh you know, school systems and things like that
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: within the state budget. Is that correct, Yeah, exactly, so
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: state trust lands and Arizona and Wyoming and a bunch
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: of the other Western states. You can't you can't hunt
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: on them, you can't fish on them, you can't hike
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: on them, you can't camp on them. They are solely
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: for the purpose of generating revenue, and that means they've
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: been leased out to somebody else. So you know, most
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: of the states want to do that. That's their right
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: to do it with their lands. Yeah, but I don't
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: see that with America's national lands, our public lands, yours
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: and mind, I don't see that you ought to have
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: the right to do that, right and then and then
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: also with federal lands. Right, most of these organs are these,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: uh I'm groups that man whether to be the BLM
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: or the National Force Service, et cetera. They are mandated
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: to manage to certain other goals which are not necessarily
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: to be profitable, but to protect wildlife habitat or to
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: follow various other conservation mandates. So we have certain conservation
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: um requirements when it's managed by the federal government, which
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: is good for hunting, which is good for fishing for
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: as Yeah, you're exactly right. I mean, the Park Service
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: is the only one that does not have a quote
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: multiple use standing by multiple use means the national forests,
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: the del and lands, the wildlife refuges even have got
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: to balance multiple uses. It could be well and gas development, logging, grazing.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: That can all be done, you know, just fine. I
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: mean requires people sitting down, working together. And actually the
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: irony of these guys designed to take over that now
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: you're a nationalilife refuge, because that's been a poster child
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: for cooperative management between the local landowners and the refuge.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: And this is you know, the whole issue that these
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: guys came in here complaining about, which is the two
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: guys getting thrown in jail had nothing to do, you know,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: with raising on the refuge or anything like that. I mean,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: so it's it's really ironic. This is one of those
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: sort of classic cases where everyone's gotten together, they worked
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: out a system that works for everybody, and now they're
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: being you know, taken over as a symbol of federal injustice.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: So no, you're exactly right. I mean multiple use means
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: that it's up to us, as hunters and citizens participate
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: in the process and to make sure that hunting and
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: fishing and fishing wildlfe get taken care of, as well
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: as grazing and timber and mining. And but that's not
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: gonna happen. It goes to the states. Yeah. So so
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: if I had to like sum this all up, because
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: people have all these questions about this, They ask you, well,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: why would it be a bad thing for the state
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: to other land or why you know, why would why
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: would why wouldn't we want to sell some of these lands,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: all these different things. If if I had to kind
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: of put it all into a nice little package, and
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give you my best best attempt at
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: at a kind of sound bite, and then you tell
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: me if I need to correct anything. But it sounds
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: like right, there is this push by certain certain groups
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: or people they want federal lands transferred to state agencies,
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: because when this land is owned in controlled by the
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: federal government, there's these multiple use mandates which are good
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: for hunting and fishing, but are bad for people that
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: want to make money. Maybe. Um, So if these lands
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: go to the state government, the state government is then
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: mandated to have to manage those lands for profit. So
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, these these landscapes might become more
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: available to extractive industries or to be sold off to
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: development or whatever it might be. So that is good
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: for people like you said, who want to make money
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: off these lands, but it's bad for people who want
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: to use these lands right now, which are managed for access, hunting, fishing, wildlife, habitat, etcetera.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: At a super high level. Is that the cliff Notes
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: version of this issue. Yeah, you know, I think that's
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: exactly right. And and this is not to say that
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: there are not problems with federal lands. There are. I mean,
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: everyone gets frustrated with something, but there is a public
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: process to go through to you know, deal with those
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: two steves made. Every single unit out there has land
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: management plan, has a public process the guidance management on
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: that unit, and it's up to us to engage. We
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: don't like something, you don't go take it over, engage
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: in the process and try to have things fixed. And
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: you know that is real lesson here. But I think
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: the bottom line is we know what we get when
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: we have federal lands or public lands, national lands, and
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: that is they're always going to be there for future
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: generations with joy just what have been since and I
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: have zero confidence that those lands will be there if
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: they get transferred to the states. Yeah. So, so is
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: there anything that I can do or their listeners can do.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Is there anything that an individual can do to to
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: help on this issue? Absolutely? You can go to www.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Dot sports is access dot org and we've been running
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: a petition there with a bunch of our partner organizations
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: and companies that basically that sends letters to members of
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Congress depending on where you live and you're local representatives,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: that basically says, you know, the federal lands are important
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: for us, don't get rid of them. And we have
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: got twenty five thousand signatures on that petition right now,
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: we've sent over two hundred thousand letters, and the more
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: of the merrier, and I would encourage everybody to do that.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: And Frankie, you know it's already working. There were thirty
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: seven bills introduced in eleven state legislatures last year to
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: demand transfer of the public lands. Only I think it
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: was six of those tasked and four of them were
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: let's study the issue more bills. So we had you know,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: sportsman with US National Wildlife Federation, back country hunters and anglers.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: We held rallies and state capitals and Montana, Idaho, Colorado,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: New Mexico, and you know, the sportsman really more than
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: any other constituency spoke up and said basically, not over
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: our dead bodies, you're gonna be doing this, And those
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: legislatures they got the message pretty darn quickly. But you know,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: if we were quiet, we don't stay engaged in this issue.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: It's just a matter of time before it pops back
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: up and we're gonna be at the worst situation. Yeah.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: And if something like that ever happened, were some type
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: of mandate gut pushed through through Congress where they start
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: actually transferring these public lands away from the federal government,
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, I can't imagine a worse scenario for hunting
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: and fishing in this country, because, like you said, it's
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: it's a massive amount of land that's so unique to
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: America that we have access to. It's it's your land,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: it's our land. You know, this is for us and
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: if that, if we lost that, I can't imagine a
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: a more dire doomsday scenario for my children and our grandchildren,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: UM than that happened. So that scares the crap out
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: of me. And I really want to make sure this
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: is something everyone listening. UM. This is one of the
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: the biggest issues I think out there from everything I
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: understand and from who I've talked to. UM, So please
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: take wits uh recommendation. Go to sportsman access dot org.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: Fill out, you know, sign the petition, Send letters to
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: your congressmen and women. UM. This is one of those
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: things that your action can make a difference. I think
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: in that way, and uh, you know, don't just think
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: about it. You know, this is something for me too.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: It so I always here's something like, yeah, that's that's
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: an issue that I get fired off about it. This
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: is an important issue, but then I'm driving and then
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: I don't remember when I get home to do something
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: about it, or you know, the next week, I forget
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: that I need to send a letter or send an email.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: I think personally that this is one of those issues
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: that you really need to take a note right now,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: right in your finger, write in your hand on your finger, um,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: right in your hand or piece of paper to do this. UM,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: I think it's worthwhile. So for whatever that's worth UM.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Speaking of access, then you had mentioned that there's some
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: other sportsmen related access issues that are of importance, like
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: maybe the Land and Water Conservation Fund, or you mentioned
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: some of the different things going on opening up private
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: land for hunting. This is a big thing for deer hunters,
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: especially UM that especially in the East Coast or Midwest
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: where it's getting harder and harder and harder find places
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: to hunt. UM. Tell us more about this what's going
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: on nationally when it comes to access. But before we
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: hear from Wit on access, we need to take a
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: quick break for word from one of our partners, Bear Archery,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: who is a sponsor of this podcast episode. I've been
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: shooting bear Bow for a number of years now. One
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: of the coolest things about this company is his history,
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: specifically the fact that it was founded by Fred Bear.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: And if you're a little on the younger side and
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: you're maybe not familiar with Fred Bear, he is someone
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: you really need to take a little bit of time
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: to learn about. He's an absolute legend, do a little reading,
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: watch some of the videos. Quite simply, he's just an
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: amazing figure in the history of bow hunting and hunting
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: in general. So well, that said, I thought, over the
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: course of the next couple of weeks we could share
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: a few wise words from the founder of bear archery, Mr.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Fred Bear. So today I thought we'd start with these words,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: and I quote, I've always tempered my killing with respect
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: for the game pursued. I see the animal not only
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: is a target, but as a living creature with more
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: freedom than I will ever have. I take that life
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: if I can, with regret as well as joy, and
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: with a sure knowledge that nature's way of fang and
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: claw and starvation are a far crueler fate than I bestow.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: End quote. If you'd like to learn more about Fred
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: Bear or bear archery, visit bear archery dot com. And
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: now here's wit on the topic of access. Yeah, I mean,
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: I'm a you know, my main passion of deer hunting
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: is you know, white tail hunting as well. So I
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: mean this is one that you know, the sort of
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: nearer deer to my heart and listen to most of us,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: you know, who live in the eastern Nited States, are
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: gonna be hunting on private lands. And if you look
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: at what's happening in Washington, d C. We're family thirty
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: years ago, he could drive half an hour outside of
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: town and as be wide open farmlands and anybody would
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: let you on there. And they were bob white quail
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: around d C. And yeah, it was great hunting, fishing.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: And the suburbs have now sprawled out so far that
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: we just don't see that. Where you do have open lands,
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're very lucky if you get a landowner
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: give your permission to get on there, and uh, you know,
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: so we're just seeing this changing demographic in the West.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: What we're seeing is, you know, you have big blocks
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: of public lands, but you know, then you have the lower,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: more productive bottom areas those tend to be private lands.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: And the old Ranching family never minded people cut through
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: his property get up to access the national forest. But
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: when it gets blought by some you know, we're just California, dude,
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: he immediately puts up the no trespassing signs and blocks
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: the old gate. So we're losing access to our public lands.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: We're losing access to private lands. And look, there's not
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: much we can do about it's private lands. Land or
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: could do what they want with it, but let's give
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: them an incentives to do the right thing and to
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: keep the public on it. So in the uniteteen I
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: think it was the eighty, what was the ninety through
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: the I'm trying to think which farm built was That
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: was Actually in the mid two thousand's, we've created a
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: program called open SIELS Voluntary Public Access programent farm Built,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: which provided incentives to landowners two open up their fields
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: for hunting and fishing. And what it would do is
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: not only given the payment to do that, but it
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: would also waive the nice reliability. So if you know
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: some you know guys fell on a ditch and broke
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: his leg, he's not going to sue the landowner. So
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: state assumed that liability. It's a grant program to the states.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: And after the first Farm Bill when it came in,
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: it was it added about three million acres of private
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: lands to public access. It was renewed and expanded in
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: the most recent farm bill the past two years ago,
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: and we're fairly confident that it will add even more
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: than that this time around. And this is you know,
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: this program exists because you know the farm landourers like
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: it and you know sportsmen like us as well as
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: bird watchers and others they like it too. And uh,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: you know it's it's the state's administrants, so you know
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: they there's you know, the folks that are you know,
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: the locals are used to dealing with their state governments. Yeah,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: there's no issue of the fence coming in and taking
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: over their properties or anything like that. So it's a
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: really good program that we want to make sure it
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: gets expanded and works well. And it's called the Voluntary
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Public Access you have to Improvement program administered by a
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Department of Agriculture. So that's something that you know, we
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: want to make sure it is working gets expanded that
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: But I'm just gonna say, is that is that a
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: controversial issue at all? Is there anyone who's opposed to
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: that kind of program or is this something that just
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: needs to be you know, brought to more people's attention.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: It needs to be brought more people's attention. You need
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: to make sure you tell your wallmakers. I mean lost
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: your Senator Debbie Stabina, was you know, critical and expanding
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: this and uh, you know, when you're at a meeting
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: with her or anybody else, just say, hey, great job,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: is a great program. I hunted this area here with
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: a fabulous yeah. But also working your state, you know,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: agencies make sure that they are really aggressively putting in
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: the program. We don't want them, you know, developing access
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: e's beens on you know, nuke's ground that doesn't have
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: any you know, fishing wilife on there. And if there
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: is that, you get back to your agency and say, hey,
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: you know what, this is not very good and we're
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: kind of wasting their money on this one. Is this program?
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: Is this from it sounds like it's being administered by
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: the Department Agriculture mentioned. Is this responsible for some of
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: these state access programs, like you know on Kansas and
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: North Dakota states like that they have walking hunting access programs.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: Is that a part of this or those something separate
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: that the state puts on it was it's something similar.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: It's actually, you know, they're the same things. So the
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: federal program exists to encourage the states to create those
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: block grant walk in programs. And actually Kansas is one
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: of the first states that did this. And it was
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: so popular in Kansas that local counties were giving the
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: states grants to basically expand, you know, do this program
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: in their counties because they saw what did too, you know,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: the hunters were coming in and using that What that
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: did to local hotels and restaurants and all the rest.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: So it's, uh, it's very related to that. This is
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: an opportunity to expand it in the states that already
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: have those programs or to create those programs, and some
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: of the states that didn't have them, and some of
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: the big recipients in this last round that was announced
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: over the summer, replaces like Massachusetts and Connecticut and Pennsylvania,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: which you know are kind of starved when it comes
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: to the public lands. Yeah. Yeah, I'd love to see
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: that happen more in these those types of states. Are
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: here in Michigan or anywhere where you know, there's such
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: a high density of hunters and like you said, limited
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: public land access in private access is just dwindling drastically.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: Um So, gosh, I would love to see that type
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: of program expanding. It sounds like the most places that
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: I hear about it are on those states like Kansas,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: North Dakota, farther west where there's a little more availability
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: where you know, it might be needed even more in
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: states like Pennsylvania, Michigan, New York, etcetera. So I hope
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: that's something that continues to gain momentum. Yeah, I think so.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: And you know, if the hunters out there at you
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: figure out where those areas are and use them, or
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: if they're not going to use them, at least you know,
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: patrick local state government on the back for open them
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: up to people. Yeah, Dan, do you have programs like
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: that in Iowa? Um? I don't think we have. I
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: know there's I think Nebraska or South Dakota have. If
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: it's not posted, it's fair game type of uh you know,
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: if you have if you have two acres and you
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: don't put uh no trespassing sign or or stay off
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: this property sign, then it's free game for whoever wants
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: to hunt it. But Iowa I don't think has a
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: program like that. Gotcha, Well, you gotta start talking to
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: your lawmakers. I need I need some more access. But
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: we can also use more money from Congress because I
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: think literally as much as Congress is willing to appropriate
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: the states we use and you know, buy access for us.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: And you know it's important to know too, this is
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: good for conservation also because you know the areas that
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: you know, if the lander wants to roll in this program,
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: they get you know, they get higher scoring if they
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: are engaged and rolled in conservation programs like CRP or
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: some of those things that you know, really you know,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: so they have double win. You know, it's encouraging them
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: to do conservation and is providing hunting and fishing access
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: right right, it all comes down to incentivizing landowners and
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: if you can make it worthwhile for them when you know,
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: if they have a financial incentive to do something that's
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: good for conservation, that's a good thing because otherwise, you know,
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: they might do what's good from money standpoint in a
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: way that's not so good for dear pheasants whatever it
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: might be. UM. So, I think this is a perfect
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: example of finding ways to find win win situations, which
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: is probably the only way that we're going to get
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: things done um towards these types of goals. So yeah, no,
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: I totally agree with you. And uh, this has been
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: a really good program to something that Secretary is Little Sack,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: who's the secretary of the Department of agriculture really likes
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: He's an Iowa guy my hometown. Oh is that right?
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: He loves his program. So it's great. But I mean,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: just you look at this year. I'm just pulling up
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: in my computer while we're talking. You know, Massachusetts got
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: you know, eight hundred and thirty six thousand dollar grant
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: to you know, expand or create this program. There. Nebraska
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: got one point three five million, Oklahoma one point five million.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: That's when we're talking real money. Um, Connecticut, you know,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: it's a six hundred and twelve thousand, which probably doesn't
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: buy a lot in Connecticut, but it's better than not
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: Illinois over half million, you know, Kansas two point seven million.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: You know. So it's uh, it's real money and it's
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: a great program. Yeah. Yeah, that's it's encouraging to hear
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: that kind of thing is happening because this issue of
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: access is becoming one of the absolute keystone issues for
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: for deer hunters, especially um east of the Mississippi River,
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: where it's just getting really hard to find places. I think, Um,
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: there was a recent survey a couple of years ago
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: by the National Shooting Sports Foundation I believe, UM that asks,
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: you know why do you not hunt anymore? Or why
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: did you never get into hunting? And by far the
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: most popular response was lack of somewhere to hunt. So
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: if we're concerned about getting new hunters into our ranks
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: and building our hunting family, uh, this is something that
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: is right up there at the top of list. If
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: we ever want to increase, let alone see our numbers
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: continue to decrease. So no, you're exactly right, And that
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: was the whole rationale behind and putting this program in
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: place in the first place. And we're trying to sort
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: of sort of create this sort of stack of things
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: that make you know, giving you in centers for landowners
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: to do the right thing with their land. So yeah,
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: they get a payment for CRP, they can get a
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: payment for other things, they get a payment for this.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: It's all of a sudden ascraptual landowner too. Yeah. Yeah.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: So so speaking of access in the land, then, uh,
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: an acronym that's been thrown a lot. It's been thrown
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: around a lot over the last couple of months, last
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: half a year maybe or so, and maybe some people
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: listening have heard it but haven't known. Really why it's
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: important is LWCF the land and Water Conservation Fund. Can
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: you fill us in on what that is, what's been
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: going on recently with it, you know why it's important
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: for for hunters and English. Yeah, So the Land Water
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Conservation Fund was created fifty years ago or fifth you
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: one years ago now, and it was a deal that
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: was struck when they were trying to do oil and
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: gas development the Outer Continental Shelf, and they decided, okay, fine,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: we'll allow development the Outer Continental Shelf. This is Congress
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: and you know, I think it was you know, whatever
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: the president was in you know, Kennada or Johnson as
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: Johnson and the you know, the deal was, but we're
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: gonna have required a well and gas companies to pay
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: into this fund called Lane Order Conservation Fund that will basically,
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: you know, will develop a non renewable resource and will
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: protect renewable resources. And so basically every year nine hundred
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: million dollars in oil and gas receives gets positive into
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: this account and then it gets appropriate by Congress, you know,
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: to two different things. One to the agencies, uh to
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: you know, to do you know, land acquisition or easyman
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: so fish and whileye service may expand a refuge or
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: made by a conservation useman adjacent to a refuge. UM.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: You know, there's good for hunting and fishing, and then
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: the other part of it goes to the state agencies
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: made build ball fields or parks in urban areas. UM.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: So it really is one of these programs that benefits
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: both you know, urban users as well as you know,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: fish and wildlife and rural users. The problem is that
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: even though that money is being paid for by the
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: well and gas companies that goes into this fund every year,
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: it basically routinely only once in the fifty years it's
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: been around as Congress actually kicked the whole nine hund
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: million dollars out. Instead, Congress you know, provides anywhere from
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: two hundred million to four millions something like that, and
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: then the rest just goes to deficit reduction. So what
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: we've been yelling about is, you know, one, this is
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: a dedicated source of funding is supposed to be paying
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: for conservation. We ought to be using it for what
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: it was attended for, which is conservation. And then you
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: know two is the program expired this past year, so
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: we were trying to get Congress to reauthorize it. Now
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: Congress doesn't get around reauthorizing a whole bunch of programs,
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: you know, the Clean Wall, are Acting, Dangerous Species Act,
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: things like that haven't been reauthorized in years. But when
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: it's not reauthorized, it makes it much harder to get
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: money into it. So the real fear we were seeing
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: is that this is the program that has never been
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: fully funded to begin with, and it's going to get
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: even more hampered with it if it became didn't get reauthorized.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: So in the budget deal that got cut at the
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: end of the year, we got a three year extension
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: on the authorization and four d fifty million dollars in
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: funding for this year and next year, which is great
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: because you know, that's way more than we've been getting
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: in the past. So and it really sportsmen were pivotable
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: this thing. I mean a lot of folks were considered
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: this the program that really benefits the environmental community more broadly,
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: but I think it was really our community that pushed
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: this thing over the edge. We produced a report um
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and fifteen. It really talked about the
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: impact this fund has had on sportsman in terms of
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: access projects, and uh, you know, by changing I think
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: the terms of that debate, I think we're really able
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: to bring and expand that coalition and make it much
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: more palatable for particularly some of the Republican folks who
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: legitimally say, well, were hard time taking care of our
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: public lands anyway, why do we want to keep adding
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: more to them? And I think our community was able
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: to go in there and say, first of all, this
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: doesn't make it more expensive to manage lands. I mean,
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: think about in the West, we have these checkerboard patterns
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: of landownership of public and private and public and private.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: You know, a lot of what this does is buyout
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: in holdings, really consolidate federal lands and makes it easier
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: and cheaper to manage. Second, it is also can be
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: used in about half the money was being used right
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: now for easements. So instead of you know, buying land,
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: we're just going into a landowner and encouraging them to
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: do the right thing, maybe for a species, maybe for sportsman,
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: for access. And yeah, that's a great use of this
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: program too. And actually your money goes a lot further
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: when you're doing these working landscape type easements as opposed
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: to an outright acquisition. And then uh, you know, go ahead,
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry interrupt um, but could you elaborate a little
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: bit on conservation easements, because that's something I think that
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: some people maybe don't know a whole lot about or
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: or here, and they don't know exactly what it means.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: And it's something that I think, you know, is popping
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: up more and more really across the country and benefits
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: a lot of us deer hunters, even you know, on
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: the eastern start side of the country. So what exactly
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: are those? How do you go about getting one? What
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: to do? What're essentially doing is you're you're relinquishing your
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: development rights, either for a tax benefit or for an
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: outright payment. And you know, for example, I've got a
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: you know, a small woodlot and upstate in New York
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: and I grew up on and we have about nine
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: percent of that in conservation easement, and it reduces our taxes.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: And you know, Frank and my brother and I, we
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: don't never want that land developed. So it's how we
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: it's beneficial to how we want to manage that property
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: long term. And so it's a it's a great way
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: to use, you know, incentive for you know, private landowners
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: to conserve land in perpetuity. So if you have let's
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: say we've got a family farm that we absolutely love
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: and it's been a place that you know, our entire
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: family has has learned hunt and has had incredible memories,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: and we want to protect that for you know, for
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: animals and wildlife and future generations to enjoy that natural
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: aspect of it. I can go ahead and put that
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: property into a conservation easement, and that means that I
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: can I can know for sure that even after I die,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: that's not going to turn into a parking lot. Is
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: that what I'm hearing? That is exactly right. And you
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: can either get the benefit in the outright, you know,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: cash payment from somebody like a land worker conservation fund grant,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: or just as a benefit or as a reduction in
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: your taxes over time. So it may reduce your taxes
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: because you're basically relinquishing all your development rights, which makes
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: that land last worthwhile from a development perspective. So I
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: would say it's great program. In fact, you know, we
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: just got permanently extended. You know, that's another program that
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: ran out in two thousand and fifteen, which is this innservation,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: the permanent conservation tax easements, the incentive program, and we
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: got that, you know, right at the end of the
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: year extended as well permanently, so that will always be
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: a part of the tax code. Now, I think that's
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: a pretty cool thing, especially for folks here who lots
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: of times we think, at least I kind of think
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: sometimes here in the Midwest, it just doesn't feel like
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: there's many opportunities to to protect large pieces of land
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: or really to make a difference when it comes to
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: landscapes because of the fact that it's so much more developed, etcetera, etcetera.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: But this is a this is a case where an
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: individual really can make a difference. You can actually help
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: set us oude a piece of ground that can be
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: great habitat for deer or whatever wildlife might be there
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: for for a long time to come. So that's kind
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: of a really neat way for for a single person
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: to make a long lasting impact. That's exactly right. And
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: you can dictate the terms of you know, what you
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: can and can't do on your land. So for example,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: on our place, we have an upstate in New York.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, we we do timber harvest, you know,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: we you know, can you know go in and do
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: all the wildlife treatments and things like that. It we
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: just can't do is you have to develop new houses
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: on it. Yeah, so you know it's which we don't
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: want to do anyway, right right? Does that Does that
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: also mean that you allow other hunters to hunt that property? Nope, nope,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: not unless we wanted to. I mean, the state could
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: have offered by an easement access from us. You know,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: we didn't have any interest in that. We're surrounded sort
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: of by state land up there, so there's plenty of
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: state access around us. But that would have to be,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: you know, just a term of the deal we worked
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: out with the state or whoever is holding the easement.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: Nature conservancy in our group side that can hold an
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: easement as well as your state visuality agency and you
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: can make sure, let's say hypothetically, um, well, well, I
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: guess and in most cases, right, if you had a
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: conservation easement, Um, that would that would remain true even
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: if you know your land after you die was sold
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: to someone else or anything. Right, It stays in perpetuity.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: Is that correct? Correct? It goes with land. Okay, interesting stuff?
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: Interesting stuff. Um So when it comes to the LWCF,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: which which does help fund a lot of things like that,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: and you mentioned it's been it's been reauthorized for several years. Now.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: Is there anything that we hunters need to be keeping
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: tabs on or paying attention to or pushing still or
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: is this something that we can say, Okay, check it
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: off the box. It's good to go. We don't need
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: to worry about it. You can. Uh, it's it's it's
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: not an immediate crisis, but it's you know, given the fact,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: well we got a three year extension on this as
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: opposed to the permanent reauthorization we wanted, you know, it's
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: it's always going to be a fight. And then also
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: we got you know, funding locked in for the next
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: two years, but then you know, after that, who knows,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: and it's it's gonna It's really incumbent on our community
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: not to assume that this stuff goes on without us,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: but to engage and participate when it's comes time to
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: yell at Congress, make sure they're funding it, to make
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: sure they're reauthorizing these programs, things like that, because if
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: we're not speaking up, either nobody's going to or people
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: we don't want to have representing us gonna doing it. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: that makes sense on some of these issues you mentioned
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: this earlier. Kind of like the corporate America um the
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: companies that support hunters, like you know an archery company
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: or a tree stand company, or or any Cabella's bass
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: Pro shops and stuff like that. There's also the term
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: money talks, b s walks kind of mentality, how much
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: of this corporate America is actually their funds actually helping
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: this movement. Well, you know, they think the hunting of
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: fishing community does not have the deep pockets with the
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: exception of you know, Cabellas or bass Pro or a
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: couple other industries or companies that you know, some of
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: the big oil and gas or developers or things like
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: that have. So, yeah, we're relatively small potatoes because we're
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: so diffuse and there's so many a little mom and
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: pop sporting good shops and things like that. So while
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: we are really significan and industry economically as an aggregate,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: you know, our individual members, you really don't engage all
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: that much and in that significant way, which is always
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: gonna put us on the defensive, which is why we
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: need people just stick up for us, because we're never
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: gonna be able to match from money standpoints some of
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: these bigger companies. Now that said, there are you know,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: wil and gas companies. There are timber companies that are
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: really good stewards, and I really want to do the
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: right thing and see that doing the right thing is
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: not only a good thing to do, but actually helps
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: them from a business standpoint, to decrease some certainty. They
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: know where they can go, they know where they can't go,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: and they know what the rules are and as long
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: as they do with the rules, and they're happy to
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: play by them. But it's when the you know, the
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: goalposts are commonly shifting, they have problems. So you know,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: I mentioned you Slumberget is a support of ours, Potlatch
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: plum Creek. You know, these guys which are not exactly
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: you know, sort of commonly associated with environmental stuff. You know,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: they're really good on these issues. So so what you're saying,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: I think is that there are ways for these two
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: constituencies to find ways to work together. Right Because you
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: look at and there's extraction related industries like timber, oil
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: and gas, etcetera that sometimes I think, um, I even
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: have the tendency to look at and say, lost of times,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: that's hurting our habitats, that's hurting our hunting and fishing opportunities, etcetera.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: But um, maybe there's there's more recently we're finding ways
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: for those groups to find wind wins. Again, you know,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: there's ways that we can still use the land for profit,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: but also do it in such a way that it
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: can be still productive for habitat and wildlife. Absolutely, so,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, let's see as the example of your timber harvest.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: You know, you have groups like you Plumb Creek or Potlatch,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: which are major you know, timber producers. You know, listen,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: I mean a lot of our forests will benefit from
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: some management. You know, white tail hunters know that a
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: little bitally sucessional habitat is great. But that's even true
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: for elk, it's true for mule deer. Some you like
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: having that mosaic of habitat. I mean, you don't want
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: the place you mowed to the ground, but at the
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: same time you don't want it all just standing there
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: and burning with no management at all. So you know,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: that's a place where we can find common ground with
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: the timber companies and they know that. You know, I
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: think we understand that, and again that's sort of sensible center.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: You know that, I think our community is always represented. Yeah,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: and that that's the challenges is getting people to come
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: to that middle where we can find ways that they
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: can work for everyone or at least make a positive step. So,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: speaking of you mentioned fire, I know that force management
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: and firefighting forest fires has been a big topic, but
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: I wonder if some people don't necessarily understand how that
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: really impacts hunting and fishing and in larger issues across
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: the country. Can you kind of explain why this whole
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: fire funding issue and force management is something that we
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: all need to be aware of. Yeah, that's a great question,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: and it goes back to the you know, this is
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: primarily issue on the public lands, you know, so we
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: have you know, it's primarily issue on the national forest system,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: which is that hundred ninety two million acres, and uh,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: you know, fire has always been a part of you know,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: the ecosystem, especially out west. But you know, twenty years
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: ago the agency was spending about six of his budget
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: fighting fires. Now it's up spending more than fifty percent
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: budget fighting fires, and as a result, it is doing
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: precious little else than fighting these huge fires. It does
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: not know why managing wildlife habitat it is not you know,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: clearing areas around urban the urban forest interface, you know,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: which are really prioriful, sort of very prone to fires.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: You know, it is not doing you know, yeah, pretty
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: much anything. Is not managing his campground Sports Services had
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: i think two thousand you know, sort of developed campgrounds
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: they've had shut down the last few years. They don't
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: have the money to operate them anymore because they're spending
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: them all in damn fighting fires. So the way national
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: disasters are handled in every other situation in this country, tornadoes,
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: hurricane means, anything like that, is that you know, the
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: majority of those costs come out of you know, FEMA,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: the Federal Emergency Management Act, in emergency funds. So we're
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: trying to do is to sure fire is always gonna
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: be a part of the Forest Services responsibilities. It's going
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: to be part of their budget. But and if you
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: get above you know, a certain level, then let's tap
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: some of these emergency funds and not have the agency
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: basically keeps cannibalizing itself, which prevents it for doing everything
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: else it needs to do. And uh, you know, that
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: was one big frustration. We had a very good budget
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: deal at the end of the year, which is actually
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: very good for conservation almost across the board, with the
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: exception of fixing this fire funding stuff. And until we
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: can fix this, we're going to continue to have major
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: problems of management on the national forest system, which then
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: feeds the discontent for the people who really ticked off
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: of the general agencies and how they're managing our public lands.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: But it's not necessarily the agency's fault because they're so
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: hamstrung with their budget right right, so that this issue
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: with the fire funding ultimately could negatively impact the larger
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: debate around whether or not we should have public lands
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: and if they're going to be managed by the federal government,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: which is good for running and fishing and all those things. So,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: even though I think a lot of people assume it's
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: it's understandable that this fire issue is is a Western thing, right,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: I don't see massive fire forest fires here in Michigan.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: But regardless, this is something that could impact my ability
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: to to have access to public lands, whether be out
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: west or here on the East Coast or Midwest or anything.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: These things are all tied together. And I think also
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: it's a rocking issue in Michigan, not because you're gonna
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: get the fires, because the management supposed to be happening
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: on maneste here on whatever national forests maybe is being
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: taken into fun fires in Ida exactly exactly. So you know,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: it is impacting land managers and the Green Mountain National
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: Forest in Vermont, and the White Wrapped Mountain National Forests
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: in New Hampshire, intersecting you guys in Michigan, in the
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: Wayne National Forest in Ohio. I mean, it is impacting
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: every single national forest out there, whether folks know it
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: or not. Yeah. Yeah, It's one of those things that
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: could easily you know, I don't think most people I
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have known this unless I had read some read
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: some of these things that that how that funding mechanism works,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: and the fact that it's taking away so much of
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: what the Forest Service should be doing in Ohio, Michigan, etcetera.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: So and again, and this is an assumption on my part,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: but is it true that really on this front again
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: comes down to communicating with our with our legislators and saying, hey,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: this is an important thing. Is there anything that's happening still?
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: You mentioned that the this wasn't passed in the most
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: recent spending bill. Is there any action being taking to
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: try to change things. Oh yeah, no, it's our top
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: priority you know this year. I know it's Secretary hill
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: sax top priority. Gets this thing fixed because you know,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: it is the one big miss that we had last year,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: and we just need to get to fix Russ's just
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: to continue to snowball cannibalize an agency. And I think
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: there is broad bipartisan support fixes in Congress, Republicans, Democrats,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: you know, people get it, they understand what it's doing.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: But just some sort of laugh minute shenanigans, you know
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: in Congress prevented this from happening. You know, Speaker Ryan
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: supported this getting fixed, but I just didn't get done
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: for last second. So I think that we uh, I
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: think we're all going to be working very hard to
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: make sure this gets done and gets done quickly recognize
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: that not a lot gets done in election year. Okay,
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: fair enough. Uh So I kind of want to move
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: now to While the last couple of things we talked
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: about might be indirectly related to the core deer hunter's
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: daily life, this is a topic that I think, especially
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: anyone who hunts in the Midwest, this is something that's
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: near and dear to a lot of our hearts. Um.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: And that's CRP, the Conservation Reserve Program. This is something
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: that UH provides and funds habitat that a lot of
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: us love to hunt for deer. It's tremendous habitat for deer.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: But to your point, which I think you made minutes ago,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: it's something that's rapidly we're rapidly losing it. Um. Can
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: you can you elaborate on what's going on with the
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: CRP program right now? Well, let's let's take a little
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: history just to explain to the listeners. Just you know,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: why THERP was created in the first place. So it
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: was created back in the eighties, has really a farm
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: safety net program. I mean, commodity prices were really crappy.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: Farmers are having a very hard time. This is a
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: way to give them some funds for not planning some areas.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: And it was good for a while life too. And
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: really it has sort of grown from you know, that
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: idea which is just sort of helping the farmers out,
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: you know, survive these tough periods to really indispensable program
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: if you know, like to hunt and fish and you
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: like clean water and butterflies and all the rest. But
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: you know, since you know CRP had about you know,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: thirty almost thirty seven million acres enrolled back in two
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: thousand and seven. The new farm mill has passed kicks
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: that down to about twenty four million acres. That is
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: a huge production. Um. Yeah, there was a farm mill
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: created some other conservation programs to sort of taking his place.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: But you know, I think that we're still pushing to
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: try to get that cat back up. And you can
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: look at some of the historical numbers with what happens
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: when you reduce CRP funding in terms of hunting populations.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at a stat right now. Um, the crproduced
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: about five point five million acres between two thousand and
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: six and two thousand and twelve, and remarkably saysant populations
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: simultaneously dropped by about half, from five point seven million
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: birds to two point nine million birds. So there is
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: a direct one to one correlation between you know, certainly
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: says'tsin crap, but also a whole lot of other species. Yeah,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: I think. Um. We talked with Kip Adams from the
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: Quality Deer Management Association last January UM, and he'd been
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: looking into this issue and how it pertains to white
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: tailed deer populations and how we've been seeing massive reductions
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: in populations and harvest numbers in states like Iowa where
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: you're seeing this huge loss of habitat because of CRP
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: going out. Um. So, I think it's something that's definitely
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: definitely impacting deer too, especially in these states where CRP
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: provides some of your only or best whitetail habitat when
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: everything else is in crops if it's not in CRP.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: So I mean, and I was a poster child of
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: you know, they have wall to wall acrops and you
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: know these good years where we had high crop prices,
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: and you know it is just as devastated the peasant
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: population has devastated the deer population. And uh, you know
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: we're sort of on the same track in South Dakota,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: but you know, as again we've got a lot more
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: enrolled there. So no, that's a huge issue, and it's
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: a huge issue. And you know across you know, a
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: bunch of the corn belt near where you guys live. Yeah.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: So so, um, this CRP, the reduction in the CRP funding, Um,
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: does that mean that the landowners are getting less money
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: per acre for their CRP dollars or is the government
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: not newing contracts now, so there's an actually an acreage
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: cap associate with the farm bill. So right now you
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: know U. S. D A is not allowed to enroll
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: more than two million acres in the program. The farmers
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: are still getting their money. In fact, the probably getting
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: more money because you know, well they're not hutting that
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: high right now. But when corn and corn and you know,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: swaving prices were higher, you know they were getting it
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: was you know, you had to provide the more money
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: and be competitive, you know, with commodity prices. But no,
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: it's an acres cap, and we're trying to get that
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: acres caps kicked back up to get more land enrolled,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: particularly now that the commodity prices are down. So now
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: it's actually in the farmer's interest to enroll more land
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: in the c RP as opposed to just to wall
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: to wall you know, road cross and hypothetically in the
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: past when it was you know, the cap was thirty
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: seven million acres or something like that, now that's only
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: twenty four is it Is it possible that there could
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: be people that currently have ground in CRP that when
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: it comes back up for renewal, they're gonna be told
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: at no, we can't renew it because our cap has
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: met in this area or whatever it might be. And
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: so we're gonna see ground that used to be in
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: CRP that we used to be a hunt that all
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: of a sudden now and it's not gonna make it's
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: not gonna make the cap. Yeah, that's definitely a possible scenario.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: Another scenarios just say, you know one of their maintain
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: your enrollments up, they just take it out because they
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: think they can make more money you're growing corn. Yeah,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: and that that's that's something that I think a lot
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: of deer hunters need to be worried about. And this
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: is one to pay particular attention to because, as we said,
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's some of your most productive ground for deer,
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: that early sessional habitat the grassy, it's terrific betting cover.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: It's I mean, I don't know if any of you
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: have have hunted in or near CRP, but that makes
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: for some of the absolute best places to to observe
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: dear and for dear to feel safe and comfortable um
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: in those types of habitats uh. And then of course,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: as you mentioned, pheasants, all sorts of upland burst species,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: everything I think benefits from that type of ground. Yeah.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: I mean one of the things we're really seeing now
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: is that the pollinators, butterflies, things like that are really dependent,
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: you know, on those CRP lands and when they go,
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: you know, so go to the pollinators, which has wrecked
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: impact no props. Now, I come from a farming family.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: Both of my grandparents farmed. Um, so from you're asking,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: and I'm gonna play a little devil's advocate and I'm
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: gonna ask you kind of a hypothetical question. You're asking
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: a farmer. Um, you know, they want to renew it
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: into the CRP program. Uh, there's gonna be a potential
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: that the crpro P program is not going to be
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: there for these farmers to do. So they want to
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: make money off their land somehow. So they they're going
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: to turn it into crops or they're gonna turn it
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: into grazing lands or whatever they're gonna do with it.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: They want to make money to, you know, for their family.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: Is there something you could tell a farmer if they
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: if they don't if they don't get that renewal or
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: they don't get it, to say, hey, we don't want
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: you to farm all your land or graze all your land.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: You're not gonna make money off of it, but you're
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: gonna be doing what is right for conservation. Oh sure.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: I mean he groups like Pheasants forever, their local chapters
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: are having those discussions with farmers and probably every day.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: But it's awfully nice to you know, farming as you know,
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: you know, they need to do it to make money
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: and it's not a charity, and you know they're you know,
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: it's tough for them to just sort of set aside acres,
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: you know, for just because it's the right thing to do.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: And if we can provide you know, some money through
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: CRP form and a tenure contract, we can give us
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: some additional money maybe for open fields rant allow folks
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: to hunt and fish, you know. Those Those are the
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: type of things that you know, I think, you know, Peasants.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: I use them as just an example because they have
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: all these sort of young farm bill biologists out there
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: working with landowners to figure out the different payment mechanism
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: they could put together and make it worthwhile to keep
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: this in a while. I tabitat is there anything? I
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: guess I'm not sure when the next farm bill comes
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: comes out or when people start working that again. But
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: is there anything happening right now to try to actively
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: increase that cappers or anything? Is this Is this one
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: of those issues again? Is this like high priority item
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: right now for for individuals? No, it is viber And
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: in fact, we're advocating they're trying to kick that cap
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: up to thirty million, thirty and thirty thirty anniversary. You know,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: let's kick it up to thirty million, and you know,
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: try to get that up there. So it's a you know,
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: it can be done, and I think this is a
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: pop is a program that is popular enough among all
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: stripes of people. Um, but again it's just you know,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: it's a tough year to get anything done and we
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: need some clamoring from our hunting and fishing friends to
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: get it done. Okay, So so basically we need to
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: make some noise, that right, make some noise, all right.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: That that is something that me and Dan are pretty
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: good at. So one one of the few things, one
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: of the few things. So we'll do our best. And
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: if anybody as questions that this are you know, at
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: one woman who runs our agg program, Aerial we Guard,
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: is really good on the subject and you just call
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: here at the TRCP office or email her a we
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: guard um TRCP dot org and she can get you information.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: Our contact information is also on our website w ww
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: dot TRC dot org. Awesome, We'll definitely have to take
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: a look at that. UM. Excuse me now, I want
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: to I want to touch on another topic that that
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: you didn't necessarily mention at the beginning, but at least
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: I think it's on the minds of a lot of
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: deer hunters today. And I'm not sure if this is
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: a larger conservation issue that's being talked about the federal
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: level or not. Maybe it's just in the deer community,
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: but I'm curious to hear from you. Is there anything
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: going on when it comes to diseases like CWD, like
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: chronic wasting disease. This is something that within the deer
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: community we're talking about a lot. We're talking about in
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: relation to the high fence industry UM and how that
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: ties into disease issues. Is there anything going on at
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: the highest levels that you guys are working on when
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: it comes to these types of things and how it's
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: impacting deer pot deer issues and things on those lines. Yeah,
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, it's a very timely subject and
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: you know, really more this is a primarily a state
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: issue as opposed to a federal issue. But yeah, there's
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: stuff that SAIDs couldn't be doing the Department of Agriculture
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: has in my mind. And again Kip Adams at q
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: D m A and you know, some of those guys
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: are far greater experts than I am, but they have
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: been way to accommodating to you know, try to you know,
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: I mean they see this as you know, an agriculture
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: issue like cattle, like how do we maximize profit and
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: make us so this can be done profitably for people
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: who want to do it, be it you know, growing
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: meat for you know the vent as the market or
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: big deer to be you know, sold off to stud
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: and uh, you know I think that you know my mind,
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: you know, dear are not and never should be a commodity.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: You know, they're special and they're not going to be cows.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't be treated like cows. And the state agencies
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: we would really like to see them managed under by
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: the sexual Wildlife departments and not the agriculture departments. And
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: we would love to see U s D A show
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: a little more backbone here to try to make sure
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: that you know, what is an incredible resource in this country,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: which is white til deer, fule deer is not you know,
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: screwed up by this, because it's just a matter of
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: time before c w D spreads everywhere, especially if the
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: agriculture guys are control at least that's my personal opinion. Yeah,
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: is this getting any play at the higher levels of
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: our conversations being had, you know when it comes to
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: this in you know, departments such as the USDA or
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: anything like that, or is it really just a lot
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: of fighting going on the state level. Well, you know,
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: I think this is going to change. And I mean,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: I mean you're obviously where you know of the whole
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: creation this new National Deer Alliance, and Mark, I think
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: you've been involved with it. And this is the first
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: time with the sort of deer community has sort of
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: linked arms to speak in a single voice on these
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: big issues. And I think this is going to be,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: if not the biggest issue, is certainly one of the
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: biggest issues with the alliance. You know, it takes on
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: and I think, yeah, we're eager to help the alliance, Um,
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: but I think I'm just then thrilled to see that,
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: you know, the community has finally sort of gotten together
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: and you decided to work together as opposed to the
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: sort of a variety of difference alorentities. Yeah, I think
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: to your point at the very beginning of the show,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: there's there's been such a segmented approach to conservation or
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: some of these other issues within the hunting and fishing community.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: It's you know, this species, that species, or this state
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: and that state. UM. And I think more and more
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: today to to make any four progress, we need to
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: start coming together and speaking with one single voice UM
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: as best as possible, because our influence grow or our
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: influences shrinking probably unless we don't do that. So totally UM. Moving.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: There's the folks that's saying the benefit financially from captive gear.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: They're pretty dark organized, and we need to get organized
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: as well. Right right, So now I'm kind of jumping
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: around here, but I've taken some notes here and a
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: couple of things that want to make sure that we
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: kind of answer some questions about because CWD has been
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: a hot issue over the last year, but another really
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: hot issue has been the stage grouse. And this is
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: a this is a tope like that. I'm not sure
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of deer hunters understand or know why they
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: should even care about it at all, but I'm cure
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: I think that they should. Um, But can you can
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: you share with us? Okay? Perfect? So can you share
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: with us what's been all the hullabaloo about the stage
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: grouse lately over the last six months or year? And
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: then why does this matter for deer hunters? Alright? So
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: for those who don't really know what the stage gross is,
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: it's a very cool Western game bird. UM that's population
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: has been steadily declining from the past, you know, probably
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: fifty years. And there are a number of reasons for
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: that decline, you know, from oil and gas development, wind development,
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: to grazing too, you know, who knows what else. Um,
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: But the the science is pretty clear that the populations
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: have been going down. And you know what makes this
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: interesting thing is that, um, the stage gross the range
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: is probably that a hundred million acres in the West.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of ground. It goes all the way
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: from Montana down you know, through Utah, and it has
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: impact on a lot of people. So that's why it
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: became such a you know, such noise that everyone was
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: hearing about because this bird was petitioned to be listed
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: under the daneous species fact and if that had happened,
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: it would have had an impact on literally everything from
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: oil and gas development, to grazing to hunting and uh
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: you know so but in a pretty cool story, you know,
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: folks started to you know, get together and develop voluntary
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: conservation plans across the range. And because understanding that as
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: of September thirty of two thousands fifteen, the US Fish
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: and Wallets sort of had to make a decision but
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: whether this is getting listed or not, And really that
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: decision was gonna be predicated on the fact of how
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: well everyone's coming together conserved the species um without a lifting.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: So you had, you know, about the habitat is on
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: federal lands as mostly BLM lands. You had to involved,
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: you had the Fourth Service involved, You had the states involved.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: The State of Wyoming was a real leader on this one.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: You had the weil and gas community involved, the grazing community,
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: and basically they came up with a plan that you know,
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: allowed the fisher willits sort of say okay, we're not
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: gonna lift it. And it is a real showcase in
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: terms of you know, avoiding the hammer of the same
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: everyone coming together. Now, why does it matter for hunters?
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, the stage graphs of cool species begin with it.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: Not that many people hunt for him, but it's what
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: we call an umbrella species. So this habitat is critical
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: habitat for about three hundred and fifty different species, including
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: mule deer and prong horn and elk. So as the
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: stage risk goes, so would go these other species. And uh,
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: you know, and I also think that it's just a
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: really meet example of you know, instead of you know,
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: sort of having this nasty dispute among various parties about
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: what the federal government is going to do to them,
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: it came together and they're doing this stuff themselves as
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: the way I'm supposed to have worked again with instead
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: of you know, triage after the fact, with the federal
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: law of conserved habitat well before we have a crisis.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: So so just to make sure I'm clear on this
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: and everyone else's, there was the risk of the Endangered
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: Species Act or the sage grouss being listed under the
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: Endangered Species Act, and if that were to happen, a
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: whole slew of new regulations comes down on habitats and
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: places where there are sage grouse or where there should
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: be stage grouse. So you know from a from one
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: time like, oh, we want good things for sage grouse,
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: regulations for sage grows so they can you know, repopulate.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: But what it sounds like happened is that all these
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: other constituencies, all these different groups said, Okay, we want
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: to conserve sage grouse, we want to help the populations rebound.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: But if we have these regulations come down, it could
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: be detrimental to a whole slew of thing. So rather
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: than wait until it gets so bad that this has
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: to happen, let's just make let's proactively, let's take a
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: preemptive strike on conservation and do the right thing now
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: before we get hit with the big stick of the ESA.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: So that's what happened, right, Yes's exactly right. And I
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: think that you know, you could either you can figure
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: out what to do about a locally with various parties,
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: where you can wait and have Washington d C tell
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: you what to do about it later. So I think
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: most people felt the of course A was a good
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: route to go. Yeah, So so is this kind of
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: a precedent center. Is this something that maybe could have
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: a longer term impact not just for the stage us,
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: but for other conservation or species situations in the future
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: across the whole country. I don't think so. Yeah. I
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: mean I think that, you know, the whole I mean,
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: you know, I think you need to be sexect. You
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: know there are problems with it. I mean, I think
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: that everyone acknowledges that. At the same time, it gets
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: a bad rap because you know, it's uh, it's it's
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: a if we get to the point where something has
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: to be listed, we've already screwed it up. So let's
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: use that you know out there and half folks come
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: together and do us right before we get to that point.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: Because all we're really talking about is just planning. Okay,
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: where can you have development? Where do you not want development?
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: If we're going to do development, how should we do
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: it to minimize its impact? How do we do mitigation?
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: How do we you know, sort of fixed our offenses
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: so the stage grass don't fly into them? Where do
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: we sign a wind farm? Because you know, the way
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: stage grausts have evolved is they don't want to be
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: aiding tall nearby because for the predators perch to kill them.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: So if they see, you know, a windmill, they're gonna
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: be miles away from it. So I mean it's all
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: this idea of just let's plan ahead and how we're
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: going to development, which makes sense for everybody. And I
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: guess that's something that you know, hopefully people will be
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: thinking about, whether it's out west or in Michigan or
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: in Florida or anywhere. Right, we want more and more
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: of this working together to try to be smart about
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: because development is happening, whether you like it or not,
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: unfortunately some instances, but we have a growing populations to
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: the country that's expanding. So I hope that this is
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: an example of Okay, if if to some degree growth
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: is inevitable, how can we do it in the right
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: way so that we can still preserve habitat in wildlife
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: and all those things? Right, That's exactly right. I couldn't
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: have said alf Well, thanks, um Dan, what are you
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: thinking over there? What's on your mind as we're as
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: we're going through these different issues, any other topics you
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: want to make sure we we talked? What about Well,
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: just to just to elaborate, um, just because something er
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: it's more of a question, but can can you elaborate
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: on if there is a way for expansion and conference
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: in conservation to happen on the same plane. Yes, I
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: mean is can you do basically development and conservation at
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: the same time. Is that the basic question? Yeah, for
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: the most part. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that I
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: think goes back to this fort of last coming in
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: made about planning, and I think you can certainly have
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: development and conservation. I mean, listen, there are some areas
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: they're too special to be developed. And you look at
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: a place like you know, the Bristol Bay in Alaska
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: where they proposed a pebble of mind. You know, no
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: amount of mitigation or you know, you know, alternative development
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: schemes is going to work there because it's such a
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: fragile and such unique ecosystem. That's just one of those
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: special places we need to protect. Other places like where
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: the stage gross lives, like where a lot of white
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: tails live. You know, it's you can have development and
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: you can have you know, conservation and species and they
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: can do really well together as long as you're smart
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: about it. You know, let science guide it, not emotion
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: and uh, you know, just come to the table and
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: sort of leave your prejudice at the door and hammer
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: on some solutions. Yeah, I hope that's This is one
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: of those things that it sounds like that's so easy
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: when you say that, but unfortunately just seems like it's
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: really difficult to get people to actually do those things right. Oh,
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. But there, I think there are a
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: lot of cases where, you know, at the local level
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: as well as in a more macro level like stage growth,
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: where we see that's happening. I mean I think that yeah. There.
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: You know, I used to work for a group called
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: Trial Limited, and you know we did you know a
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: lot of these sort of watershed scale projects that would
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: bring you know, ranchers, you know, timber industry, fishermen, local
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: you know, business interests together to figure out, okay, how
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: do we have you know, a vibrant economy in the space,
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: and but also a really good trout fisher and you
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: know Blackfoot River in Montana, you know the Wood River
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: in Idaho. There are tons of examples where this has
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: really worked, and you know that's the kind of thing
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: that we can Yeah, we can replicate any places as
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: long as our people willing to come together and work
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: things out, Yeah, And I feel like this is one
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: of those things, um, when it comes to conservation of
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: landscapes and habitats where to to the point that Dan
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: made and you just made, we you know, there's there's
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: some places we're gonna be smart about planning and we
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: can you know, there can be wildlife and humans can coexist.
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: And then to your point where there are also some
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: places that are so special, that are so fragile that
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: we need to protect them. And I think one of
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: the I think about this a lot. I love wilderness,
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: wide open spaces where you can still get away from
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: it all, where wildlife can exist, you know, on uninhibited
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: by humans. And when it comes to all these different
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: things to landscapes, the fight to conserve habitat, it's one
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: of those things that on on our side, I don't
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: I don't want to sit there side our side, but
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: on the side of protecting habitat for wildlife, that's a
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: fight that you need to continue winning. That You're gonna
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: be challenged over and over and over again, and you're
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: gonna have to come back up. You have to step
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: back up to the plate and fight that fight again
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: and again, because there's gonna be people trying to knock
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: it down, trying to develop, trying to do different things.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: That's going to keep on happening. So even if you
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: win today, probably three years from now you're gonna have
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: to go back up to the plate. On the other hand,
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: if you lose that fight, it's lost forever. Once that
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: piece of forty acres, that terrific whitetail habitat, or that
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: two thousand acres of mountains or whatever it might be,
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: once that's developed and taken over, that's a piece of
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: wildlife habitat that's probably gone forever in most cases. And
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: so I think it's just and maybe I'm biased because
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: I'm a sucker for for the outdoors, but I feel
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: like this is one of those places where we just
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: have to keep fighting, we have to pay attention to it,
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: and we just have to be involved because there's there's
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: not a whole lot of people out there who are
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: thinking and caring about this type of stuff anymore. Most
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: people are are watching TV and hanging out in the
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: higher rise and going to the club, and they're not
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: even thinking about it. And I think for the few
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: of us that so many million hunters and there so
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: many million anglers and the so many million hikers and
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: backpackers and all of us have to realize that this
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: is a pretty precious resource that if we don't you know,
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: with it, excuse my friends, but if we don't give
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: it damn enough, nobody else will. So that's yeah, Mark,
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: I think you're exactly right about that. I think you know,
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: the hunters, you know, really have a closer connection to
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: that land than anybody else because you know what it's like,
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, you get out there and you he's just
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: to become a part of that wilderness. And you know,
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: even wilderness sort of a small w and it can
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: be you know, your acres behind your house that you hunted,
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: you know, if it's you're a kid, and uh, you know,
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: it's just it's I think we appreciate a very different level.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: And if we're not gonna be willing to speak up,
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: you know, you know who's going to. Yeah, So I
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: guess at least number one, is there any other major
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: issue that we didn't touch on yet that you brought up? Um?
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: And if not, then are there any kind of final
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: thoughts on your end that that we all should be
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: should be keeping in mind moving forward? How can we
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: individuals again make an impact on all this because we've
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: talked about a whole lot of issues. There's a lot
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: of acronyms, there's a lot of things talked about in
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: Congress and with legislators and all this, and it can
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: be a little intimidating. Um, So I always want to
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: make sure we can try to bring it back to
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: what can I personally do today or tomorrow. Yeah, you know, listen,
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: I'd much rather talk about you know, tree stand placement
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: and you know, and all that storm and stuff, just
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: like everybody else would. But you know, in order for
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: us to enjoy that and have that conversation, we have
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: to have a place to go and hunt and fish
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: and get outside. And you know, it was the sportsman
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: he really led by a Feodore Roosevelt back in the
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: Lady to Hunters really nineteen hundreds, that created this amazing
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: system that we have and then unfortunately too many of
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: us take for granted. And if we want that to
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: go on to our kids and they are grandkids, and
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: they're grandkids, you know, we cannot assume that is going
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: to be there if we don't stand cup for it.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: And that's the only message I would just put out
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: there is that for too long. You know, we're too
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: happy to play with our toys and to you know,
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: really you think about the next hunt and just forget
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: all this other stuff. But I think it's an obligation
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: we all have if we want to continue doing this. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: I couldn't. I couldn't agree more. Dan, Do you have
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: any any final thoughts on this topic over there too?
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: Just I don't know. Like I said it, I'm like
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: the rest of the people out here out there who
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: are listening, I very rarely think about it until you know,
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: things until like like this, until it's too late. You know.
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: I I'm so focused on my family, and I'm so
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: focused on my job and and everything else, and then
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: by the time hunting season comes around, you're you're focused
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: on hunting. So I'm gonna make it a goal to
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: from myself and challenge everybody else who's listening here too.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying give all your time, but open the
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: at least open the book and start reading. Start reading it. Absolutely, yeah,
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: and if you can, just you know, find some small
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: way to start making impact. Every little bit I think counts.
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: It's so cliche to say, but it's just the truth
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: right and there there are a lot of opportunities out there.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: They're fun too, I mean, you know, join your local
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: Turkey Federation chapter, q d M, a group or you
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: know whatever it maybe and they're cool people. Is fun
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: and you all are you know, there's strengthen numbers. Yeah, yea,
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: so true. So speaking of groups, you, of course are
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: the CEO and president of the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: Is there any way that our listeners ourselves can get
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: involved with what you guys are doing at the t RCP. Yeah,
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: just go on you know TRCP www dot trcp dot org.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: You learn a lot more about the organization, how we work,
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: what of issues are You can sign up. It doesn't
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: cost anything to sign up. Do you want to give
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: us a gift and get a cool you know president return,
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: we'd love to have it, But we're really interested in
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: just having people engage and make your voice heard awesome? Well,
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: I think that that's our goal here too. We hope
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: that that everyone listening. Will you know, think about these
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: different topics we've covered and uh, you know, be curious
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: about them, dive in more, do more research, learn about
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: these things. Because the number one thing. The first and
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: foremost priority I think is is knowledge. Right understanding these issues.
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: Knowledge is power. Once you understand these things, then you
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: can then begin to see how you can make a difference.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: And I don't think any one of us maybe maybe
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: with maybe you can have an impact on all these issues,
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: but I'm not sure any of the rest of us
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: could impact every single one of these. But you know,
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: see what what impacts you the most, or where's your passion,
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: or where do you think you could have a disproportionate impact,
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: And then focus there, spend a day a month or
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: a couple of times a year, think about maybe I
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: can volunteer some time, or maybe I can take a
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: couple hours this week and send some letters. I know
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: that's paying them butt, but maybe this year I'm going
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: to do that, find some small way to make a difference.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: And I think, um, obviously it will make an impact
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: in the long run when it comes to our ability
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: to hunting fish and have landscapes and habitest to do so.
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: But then also I think you'll, um, I think it'll
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: be pretty personally fulfilling too, So for whatever that's worth,
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: that's my my final preach of the day. But this
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: has been terrific. I don't know many other people who
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: we could get on this show too, to speak to
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: so many of these different, diverse topics. So we really
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: appreciate the time you took care of that. But Marcos,
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you guys getting the word out about this.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: Uh it happens, you know, too infrequently, and anytime you
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: want me back on, just let me know. I'm happy
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: to join you. All right. We'll be careful what you
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: offer because we have been known to do that. So
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: so we have a have a great evening and hopefully
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: we'll be able to talk to you against soon. Thank
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: you very much, all right, bye bye. Alright, Well, I
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: know that's probably a lot to digest, but these are
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: just some super important issues and might be in the case.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: I'm just really glad that Wit was able to help
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: us walk through them. And I'm also glad that you
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: all took the time to hear about these things, because
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: that's an important step and I know it can be
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: a little overwhelming, I imagine too, to hear all these
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: different issues that maybe you weren't aware of, and all
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, what you know is dumping a lot
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: of new information on, so it's kind of hard to
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: keep track of it. Also, if you need to listen
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: to it again, I encourage you do that. Um. And
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: of course, you know, as we talked about, if nothing else,
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: you know, try to take some action on some of
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: these items, or at least on one of these items,
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: whatever it is that compels you the most, do something
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: about it. Uh. It's really easy to listen, it's easy
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: to read, it's easy to to hear about these things.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: But what really makes a difference in the end is
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: actually doing something about it. So if I could encourage
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: you to do to do one thing in particular, I
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: would love to see all of our listeners take one
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: small piece of action regarding the public lands issue that
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: we talked about near the beginning of the show. This
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: is really a serious threat and it's one unfortunately does
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: seem to be picking up some steam politically. So we
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: sportsmen women need to make our voices heard. We need
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: to keep our public lands and then we need to
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: keep them accessible to hunters and anglers and productive for wildlife.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: So is what said. Visit Sportsman's Access dot org that
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: sports men with an s Sportsman's Access dot Org go
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: there to sign that petition and to get more informed
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: on what's going on and what you can do, so
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: if you can go ahead and do it right after
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: this podcast, it's one of those causes I think is
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: going to be very worth your time. Now, with all
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: that said, before we wrap this up, we also do
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: need to send a big thank you to the companies
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: that have helped make the Wire to Hunt podcast possible.
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: So big thank you to Sick Gear, Trophy, Ridge Bear Archery,
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: Redneck Blinds, Hunter ra Maps, Ozonics, Carbon Express, Lacrosse Boots,
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: and the White Tail Institute of North America. And finally,
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: as always, thank you to each and every one of
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: you who tuned in today. I hope you were able
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: to learn a thing or two about what's going on
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: across the country when it comes to conservation, and hope
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: fully you were inspired to take some action. And finally,
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: of course, I hope you'll stay Wired to Hunt. H