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Episode 18: Becoming a Regulated and Accountable Parent (Parenting 2 of 4) · the Unvarnished Edit

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Welcome to season two, episode six of The Unvarnished Edit, where two friends talk about what it's actually like to live an adversity-filled life.
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Be prepared to laugh, possibly cry, and swear along with us.
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This is Angie, and today's episode is the second episode of our parenting arc, where we discuss parenting culture and parenting children who don't quite fit the standard mold.
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Hi.
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Good.
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Nice to see you.
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How are things going? Good.
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Well, we are watching the World Cup.
We know absolutely nothing about soccer.
We don't know anything about soccer, but we're watching every single game, and we...
The good part about it is that we have started like Googling every country and like naming cities in the country, and like, "Oh, yeah, I know that city," and like what...
and like what languages do they speak? But then we've been getting into like who colonized them and what is their actual native language and what does it look like to be an indigenous person from this country? Like we've been deepening our conversations about like colonial...
1:06
actually We've been deepening our conversations about colonialism and, um, countries next door to each other that have different, speak different languages, and that's led to conversations like with Madeline about like why do some people drive on certain sides of the road in certain sides of the cars, and what...
like what languages? And it's actually been a really good, um, like conversation piece.
But also, there seem to be no rules in soccer.
I mean, I'm seeing these people like all out like almost like rugby beat each other up, and nobody cares until all of a sudden we do care, and I can't discern between a foul and not a foul because they all look the same to me, and it's like w- it's just no rules.
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And the game ends like at whenever the ref decides the game ends, and there's just so much chaos going on.
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But it's been fun I, I love soccer, but only because w- watching Kayden play it from Yeah she was tiny.
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I think she got into soccer when she was in...
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Was she was three was the first time she Mm-hmm.
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Oh, are pictures of her.
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And then watching her go through, like, club soccer and all that kind of stuff through, um, high school.
So that is very different than my experience with soccer growing up with my kids, which we had some similar...
We had kids on the same team.
Yeah.
Um, I remember Ellie, my oldest, one time, who was actually a pretty decent soccer player, but one time she's running onto the field and the coach is like, "I need you in left field," or that's baseball, but whatever.
Something with the word left on it.
And she starts running to the right, and the coach is like, "No."
So she holds up her fingers, looks down, sees the L for the left, and starts running the other way.
And I'm like, "That is my child."
Another time, Jackson was playing, and he took his soccer, soccer shirt and put it up over his head so you could see his stomach, and he started running around yelling, "Where's the ball? I can't see the ball."
So yeah, my experiences with soccer are vastly different, vastly different.
We used to pay Jackson to get off the sideline.
He would come off the field and sit down, and the coach would be like, "It's your turn to sub in."
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And he'd be like, "No, thank you."
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And I'd be like, "I will give you whatever.
I will give you a dollar.
I will take you to the ice cream store.
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I would just...
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Please, you're humiliating us.
Please get up off the field and go on."
So I had to pay him every single time that he was asked to sub in.
And finally, the coach was just like, "I don't think this is for him."
And I was like, "You think? You think?" Cause his allowance has quadrupled since we've joined this team.
Oh my gosh.
Honestly, I love that Ah, I love no sports for my family you...
Yeah, you're, you can't make us...
That's so funny, and honestly kind of like runs us right into our topic today, which is parenting culture, right? And what that kind of looked like for us.
So you know, Jaelene and I kind of stood outside the norm a little bit, um, when it came, when it came to parenting.
And I, I have come to find out that at, how old am I now, 51? 51 years of age, having raised adult children, minor children still at home, I parent really differently than the vast majority of people, and I always um, kind of piece to it.
And parenting culture has become no joke.
Our adult kids are 27 years old, and then our youngest go down to 12.
12 12? 12.
Yeah, and um, it is like generationally, it's a total culture shock compared to what parenting them was to our kids Yeah, it's really wild.
And, you know, when, when I was parenting, actively parenting my older kids, I was the youngest parent by far, right? Same.
when I had my oldest, and so I was super young.
And now I am old compared to the other parents, right? And so it's like I've never even age-wise fit in with parents.
Parenting, I was always very different than the other parents.
One of the biggest differences is I've always given my kids a tremendous amount of autonomy to be themselves, be their personality.
And so it's interesting that we're having this conversation after our religious conversation with Brandy last week because that, my growing up experience and not having any autonomy in my personality informed, I think, the way that I have let my kids...
I have family structure, but you can be whoever you are.
Show up, like, very authentically to yourself.
And as it turns out, not a lot of parents do that.
Yeah.
Yeah, and it wa- it's actually, like, that actually surprised Yeah I mean, 'cause we both have always done that, you know, with our kids.
There's, there's always been a lot of choice and a lot of Yep and y- we may be in the same family, but we don't all behave the same Mm-hmm.
don't act all the, the same way.
Um, and I was going somewhere with this, and it has of parents deeply involve themselves in the formation of their child's identity, Oh, yeah I have never been able to do that Yes.
Like, people say, people will say, "Oh, good job, Mom.
You did good."
And I was like, "I do anything That was like, that wasn't me.
That was, that was them."
I've created a space for them sometimes that I question if maybe I've created too safe of a space, because some of the things that are shared with me Yes.
like, whoa, Sometimes I have to remind my kids, realize you're talking "I am still your mother.
I do not want to hear this story whatsoever, child."
Yes.
But it was that kind of creating that space, I think.
And what I was gonna say is, you know, I did a lot of work in prevention in my career, you know what I mean? Um, and that wa- the ownership of children's, you know, like, i- you're only as...
W- one of the sayings was, "You're only as happy as your saddest kid."
Yeah And I was like, "What the...
Yeah No.
No, no.
No."
my own person.
They are their own person.
Yeah Yeah.
And how do you ever...
I had an...
We're just gonna, like, go down to that level instead of trying to, I don't know, create a space because we're two separate beings Yeah in this space.
and, um, a lot of flack for the Tons.
my Tons.
You know what? So much.
I read this book and my kids were young.
I wasn't reading it because I was a parent.
I was reading it 'cause I think my book club read it.
Go Ask Alice, which is, um A diary of a young addict, and there's some question about the validity of whether this is, like, a real diary or there's some questions about the origin of this book.
Um, however, reading it, and there is a part of this book where, um, you know, some of these kids in the book who are addicts are living on the street and, um, the individual whose journal it is goes home at some point and is talking to their parents, and they're talking about hair color and things like that.
And she said, "You would be surprised how many kids are homeless because they have gotten in fights over what color their hair is."
And for some reason, that really struck me, probably because there was some arguments with my younger brothers growing up.
Um, my f- my, my parents and my younger brothers ended up in family therapy because my brothers had colored their hair, like, turquoise or something like that, and it was so outside of the realm of what was acceptable in our community.
And I just remember reading that and thinking I, I could never attach to a hair color enough that I wouldn't let my kid live in my home.
Like, Yes like this...
I had this kind of epiphany of you, you must let your children be themselves.
They need to dress the way that they feel is appropriate for them within, you know, boundaries of appropriate whatever, right? I'm not talking about something...
Yeah, I'm not talking about crazy stuff here, but I'm gonna let you pick out your own clothes, and I'm going to let you color your hair the color that you want it to be.
I up in a house with a lot of kids, and it was everyone must have the same thing for it to be equal for all of you.
But that, we didn't get what we needed.
We just got what the other per- what the first person in line needed, right? Yeah.
so my parenting's p- perspective has always been, I will give you my best interpretation of what I think you need, even if it's vastly different from your sibling.
Yeah, absolutely.
And even just understanding that you do have vastly different needs than your siblings and I think a- an important piece of that is my interpretation of what you need.
I, just because I, yes, I am the adult, and yes, I am your mother, but it's still just my interpretation, and I have to be able to be held accountable to, like, whether you say something different.
I have to be able to be wrong Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, I think, um, one of the struggles of parenting in two different generations is I, I consistently have to remind myself that Jacen is growing up in a different time and space than my older kids grew up.
My kids never grew up in the time that these younger kids...
And you and I have talked about this sometimes, of the things we have to think about now parenting, screen time, social media, the always being connected to something.
Our kids not having, like, downtime without, needing to have that connection.
Where older kids was just, that was natural.
Cell phones were not a thing.
We did not have smartphones when our kids were in junior high.
We did not No.
smartphones when they were in high school.
And, and still even with that, like when we would go to my mom and dad's, it, during the summer and they didn't have cell service up there, my kids were so excited to have that downtime to not be connected to now we have a generation who is just always connected.
And the different conversations, I am super actually thankful that we ha- that I had adult ones, because now I know that this time isn't, doesn't last forever.
yeah, they deal with things that are, like, so much harder than Yep.
our older I got a text last week from one of Madeline's friend's parents asking me if I could please let them know why Madeline wasn't responding to her text messages, 'cause her daughter wanted to know What? So this child went to their parent and said, "Can you text Maddie's mom and find out why Maddie's not answering my text messages?" And I was like, Guys, guys, we are allowed to step away from our phones.
Yes do not have to respond all of the time."
And so now I have to tell this parent how to parent, Mm-hmm.
But that's not my job, right? And I, and I actually, I just answered and I said, "She's on vacation with her dad."
What I wish I would've said is, "Oh, no, we're allowed to be away from our phones."
Right? Yeah And I, and I, and I was...
When she came back, I was like, "This was such a weird situation.
Are you getting messages from this friend? Are they angry when you don't respond? Like, let's talk about boundaries here.
Let's talk about..."
But for a parent to message me and think that, yeah, this is normal, we should be interdicting when our kids are answering each other.
No, man.
No.
We have had parent-teacher conferences where we've had to talk about the kid who's wearing Meta glasses to sixth grade.
Right.
These are just things that we as parents are not equipped to handle.
An adult person doesn't know how to handle Meta glasses, and you're putting them on an 11-year-old boy.
Yeah.
11-year-old boys who are notorious for making terrible decisions Yeah.
No, absolutely.
Crazy.
The digital pressure is crazy The, the constant connection, the constant, like, having to be on all the time, not having any, you know, downtime, any of those pieces.
Yeah.
And honestly, that whole parenting culture of that, "Oh, well my daughter's upset that the girl isn't answering."
And instead of having the conversation of like, "People don't have to answer right away.
The, this has nothing to do with you.
Maybe they are busy."
I mean, I don't know how many times I've had the conversations with my kids of like, "Well, we don't know what they're doing right Yeah.
We don't know what their life looks Yeah know, you know, what they're experiencing in their home."
But it automatically goes, I have to fix Yes for them.
And I know that that started when our big kids were in school because you and I would have conversations of like, "Am I supposed to fix this?" Like, I thought that I thought that this was what they were supposed to be doing because, because we're adults, right? Like, we're...
we need them to kind of, learn some of these things.
But having so much pressure from how the other parents did Yes and then all of a sudden social media blowing up and seeing how the other parents, not even seeing inside, seeing the, what Jaelene referred, referred to as performative parenting and thinking that we all have to do this has put a lot of pressure lot of pressure yeah, parenting the right way Yeah.
I think, you know, the way that I have always thought of parenting is I am- my job is to let you make mistakes while you are in my care so that then I can help you figure out how to repair your mistake and you learn a skill, right? We learn by doing something wrong or a failure or a oopsie doodle, right? Mm-hmm.
how I learn.
That's how I got to where I am, is the growth comes through the hard times.
And so what I see is increasingly society, automation, and parents removing all of the hard times.
Yeah And then we get all of this media saying that kids who are in their 20s are fragile and snowflakes and can't handle anything.
Correct, because you have taken all of the hard out of their life.
Yeah the first hard thing you encounter is at your first job or your first time at college, you're in, you're in big trouble.
You don't know what to do because that's the first hard thing you've had to do.
The first hard thing you have to- you should be doing is when you're, like, eight and you made your friend ma- mad, and your mom made you go over there and apologize Yes, absolutely.
And I mean, we have such an advantage of being more mature ourselves.
I had my first kid when I was 22.
I was a child.
So of course we're gonna grow and learn.
And, know, there's no...
have all these parenting books.
Everyone's like, "No one writes a, you know, book on parenting."
No, they don't, but there sure are a whole shit ton of parenting there are that give you the most amazing amount of conflicting information.
And what would work for one of our kids does not work for the other one of our kids.
And what worked back then does not work Yeah Like, just the amount of flexibility you need to have as a Yes is one of the things that I think we get actually, like, super wrong Yeah.
It's the, you cannot be rigid like, all of this work that we do as parents, but they're going to go out and dismantle that 100%.
that they have, right, a moment of independence, and kind of, kind of being able to do that.
And in the moment, it felt like a really big thing, but now, because we, because we do have adults, we're like, "Yes, I know that this feels, like, really super heavy," but we have a different perspective to it.
Like, we know it's, like, almost, almost done, Yeah you know? Um, and, know, with, with Jacen gonna be 15 in just a few months, I'm like, wait, 15? Like, I now have the perspective of what 15 Yeah, we know right? And so is he an asshole sometimes because he's an adolescent boy? Absolutely.
Do I love it? I absolutely do, because I know that this is the only space and time he's actually gonna be like this.
And, right? You know what I mean? Like, we have this whole thing.
And, and both of us have been parent- been through parenting where we have parented children who did not fit into the, quote-unquote, normal standards, I mean, and you, that looked yeah, I feel like if you raise a kid and you let them become themselves at a very young age, it's incredibly rare for them to fit into the normal standard We did kind of allow that s- allow that space, and it's not the It's hard.
You know, I, I go back to the conversation that we had with Brandy on religious trauma and how she said, "You know, you can say whatever you want to me, and you can put me down, you can put my parenting down, you can p- do all of that kind of stuff, but don't come for my kids."
Like, that's where things change.
the m- the way I have changed as a parent a lot of times came through the criticism of my children Like don't you dare tell them who they have to be, don't you dare put parameters on there.
And no, they still have worth even though you don't think so because they're not doing things the way that you would do them, and I will go down swinging.
Yeah.
Right? Like I, um, just getting into raising queer kids, that's a big part of this, is like when I am out in public with my children, and with my queer children who are very visibly queer, if you say something or you even look at my kids sideways, we will have problems.
We will have words.
I will defend their, um, ability to be themselves in a public space, uh, very vehemently.
Very, Yes.
so.
Yeah And, um, I get very...
That's probably the one area where I have absolutely no wiggle room for other adults in my life.
If, uh, my kids aren't good enough for you, then you will not be interacting with my family Absolutely, hands down, that is just it, Yeah Period.
Like, end of story.
and that, honestly, it's something that I never thought that I'd have to say because what do you mean? Yeah You have an issue with who my child Yeah Like, I get having an issue with the way that I parent them, Yeah.
100%, absolutely, sure.
But who they are as a person, as an individual, when they are kind, when they do good in this world, when they are not actively harming Yeah.
I'm actually less forgiving about it than my children are.
Absolutely.
Absolutely I have transgender children, and which adds a whole other element into the queer conversation.
Especially politically right now, it's very, challenging to have any political conversation with anyone.
We were at a family event recently and, I have a very conservative family, and, Yeah uh, a grown adult Don't asked to my child's face, So are you a girl?" Now, I didn't hear this interaction My, the child in question asked, told me about it later, and I was instantly like, "You have got to be kidding me.
You have got to be kidding me."
And she was like, "Whatever, mom.
She, she had questions, she just doesn't understand.
She wanted, you know, she was trying to engage in conversation."
She, you know, and so, like, this Was she? and so, Was she? dude, I know.
And I appreciate that my child has that perspective and, and feels comfortable speaking to people about this.
And also, I know from a lot of experience of having to have these conversation with adults where they think it's appropriate to ask me questions like this.
Mm, I would say 9.9
out of 10 times when someone asks that question, where it leads is what they actually wanna know is, "Who do you have sex with?" Yeah And that is nobody's...
How dare you Mm-hmm.
to anyone who they are having sex with? On the regular, I am asked who my children sleep with.
"What gender of a person does your child have sex with?" People ask you ask you? All the time.
That is one of the...
If, as soon as someone finds out that I have a transgender child, it is guaranteed that the, either the next question or the third question will be who they have sex with.
"So do they sleep with boys or girls?" I, I know I know that we're gonna e- I know that we're gonna edit out the long pause that just came through because otherwise y'all would think that your podcast was glitching.
But my brain is glitching because I couldn't imagine ever asking anyone that It's insane to me, but that is my life as a parent of a transgender child.
Constantly on alert, constantly, you know, when we go out, when we go shopping for clothes, I have to be so vigilant about dressing rooms and bathrooms and...
and honestly, like, I don't, I don't blame you.
I no longer have contact with my parents, um, one of the reasons I no longer have contact is because of something that was said about one of my daughters.
And it was so clear to me in that moment, like, wow.
You know, is, like, so wholly unacceptable to me that you would say that about her, that you would think that about her.
So hurtful And, and also, you don't get access to her anymore.
And because you don't get access to her anymore, you also don't get access to me because guess what? She comes with me.
You know? And at the time she was a minor kid, so she truly did come Yeah? Yeah you know? But even as an, even as an adult, like, these are, these are my children.
These are the reason the vast majority of my life is here.
They have taught me about love.
They have taught me about acceptance.
They have taught me about standing in my own power because they have been able to stand in theirs and model it for me at times that I would not be able 100%.
The conversation about queer kids and family and religion, it's, it's a very difficult topic.
There was, like, this, this, uh, I think it was a pride parade or something where, where on Instagram we had seen, like, this compilation of funny signs.
And one of the signs was, um, I- if you don't like gay kids, quit having them."
And, uh, so that's, like, a running joke in my family with my kids, like, because they call me, like, a gay factory because I have so many gay kids.
Yeah um, I...
My, my kids do spend time with my family.
Now that they're older, I give them the choice, right? It's just if you don't, if you don't feel comfortable in any room, do not come.
And there's been many times where things have been said unintentionally that have, have really made my kids think, "Okay, well, I'm, I don't wanna participate in this anymore."
And also, my family and I have navigated it relatively well, right? There's never been a time where it's been, um, well, you know, "Because you are gay, you are no longer in this family," or, or anything like that.
Um, and also uh, an underlying vibe of...
I don't know how to say this right We love you, but we don't approve of your lifestyle Yes, love the s- love the sinner, not the sin, And there's, there's a vibe of we're being so good and benevolent because we allow you to be here Yes.
Be thankful for that because if it was anyone else, they wouldn't be allowed Yeah.
And I've, I've been told many times by people who I love very much, "Wow, your kids are so lucky that you're their your- that you're their mom."
People say that to me all the time.
My kids are lucky that I, that I love them? what...
like what, what exactly does that mean? That, 'cause other moms wouldn't their children? And so Yeah.
And it is true that a lot of queer kids lose their family Yeah But that doesn't mean my kids are lucky that I love them They're, they're my children.
They're my children.
Yeah What do you mean they're lucky they have me? What is the alternate for them in your world? Right Does that mean that it would be bad for them if you were their mom? Honestly, that is what that I don't know.
It's very hard why would, why else would you say it? I would never say...
I mean, I say they're lucky to have you, 'cause I know how amazing you are and how cool Thank you Um, but if somebody is saying that, that they're saying, "I don't know how you do it, I would not be able to," that's what they're saying.
And it's Because otherwise why would it stand out them? Do you know what Yeah, I know.
It's really hard to parse these things.
You know, I remember this came up in my mind when we were talking about Brandy, 'cause she was talking about how at 13 she was having feelings that she knew weren't okay.
And it's not like anybody was saying that, she just knew.
And that made me think about people of our age, right? Our generation The way that I knew how my family felt about homosexuality was that we watched television when Ellen came out Mm-hmm.
And I know what my family said behind closed doors, which is why my kids were out to me for way longer than they were out to my family.
So you know what? You're right, they are lucky I'm their mom because I would never, ever make them feel any way other than loved.
So it is true grew...
Yeah, yeah.
And I grew up with my, my uncle is gay, and he was out my whole entire life.
I heard about the way that they, as a child, as- about the way that they talked about him When he wasn't Yeah right? he was so kind.
was so fun.
My grandmother absolutely loved him and didn't have any issues, but it was everybody else talking, behind the whole entire thing.
I think there's like, uh, you know, and this came up in our conversation with Brandy.
When you have a deep sense of who you are and you have to do the work to accept who you are Yeah I don't wanna say easier, but you are nicer because you have no internal conflict Yes.
Right? You are who you are, and you can...
When you love yourself fully and freely, you are able to give full and free love to everyone else.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And honestly, I think And I'm not, I'm not gonna speak for you.
I'm gonna just speak for myself.
When it came to being a parent, it was the one thing that I actually knew that I was good at, and it right off of that.
Like, I didn't have a problem.
I was comfortable with how I was parenting.
I knew that I loved my kids more than anything, and that I was trying to make sure that I was raising kind human beings, um, and in, in this world, and I didn't have a problem with it.
And so no matter all of the things that were around me and how I felt about myself as a, as a human being, how I felt about myself as a parent, it was the one thing that I knew, Yeah I'm actually, I'm actually good at this, and I'm confident in this piece.
You can say whatever you want about me as a parent and how I'm parenting, but I know how my kids feel when I walk into Yeah and I know how my kids feel when you walk into the room."
And I will take that, I will take the feeling that they have with me day of the week over doing things the way that you would like me to do them Parenting has been the one area of my life...
I'm so insecure in other areas.
I have struggled so much in other areas.
I'm very open about that.
I know the parts that I've done wrong or that I wish I would've done better, and also I've told my kids, and I have open conversation with my kids about it, but I have done my best.
I continue to do my best.
I am a good mom Yeah.
Yeah.
And a good mom does not mean not making mistakes, because we have made plenty makes me a better mom is that I can say, Absolutely wrong.
Let's try something different."
I think that is what makes me a good mom is I'm not afraid to shift gears.
I'm not afraid to tell my kids I made a mistake.
I'm, I'm not afraid Yeah, no, uh, I mean, abs- absolutely.
And we don't look like the norm, All of us are so messy, and they're...
And you know what? They're all so different, but they're so Yes Which is a cool feat as a parent.
Like, if you can get, if you can get to stage of parenting where you can just allow your children to experience what it could possibly be to themselves, and this doesn't say...
Like, Jaelene and I have rules.
In fact, Jaelene has way more rules you can be strict, you can have rules, you can have boundaries, Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm and allow your children to be they Yeah in that space I'm just thinking, like, if you're a parent and you're listening to this, like, what advice would you give parents? And I think, I'm gonna let you think about it, 'cause I've been thinking about it.
I think I have an answer.
I think the best advice I could give parents is that you have to have a separate identity outside of parenting, right? Your kid's identity is not yours and, at all, and you need to find a, a friend, a community, a friend.
Like, you know, us having each other when we were parenting together that had similar values even if we distill them differently, and someone that you can, like, be fully open with and say, like, "I, I don't like parent.
I don't like being a parent right now.
I don't like what my child's doing.
What You know, can you help me? And can you..."
Someone that you can be really honest with, and someone that you can allow to see the hard parts of your family, that you can be vulnerable with, and show the messiness to, I think is what has helped me be a better parent, is I have a, a few friends, you know, Angie included, that know how messy my parenting has been, and they still love, they still love me, and they love my kids, like, so much.
That's been the key, is the community that I have around me Yeah.
Yeah, community is like so key, even if it is just like one other Yep that you can, that you can share.
Parenting is hard, Yeah What's gonna work for one doesn't necessarily work for the other.
Um, I remember when Sam was, same time that she was in therapy, she came back and said that she needed more boundaries, boundaries helped her feel safe, and she wanted to have, like, concrete discipline things.
And so we sat down, for everybody, for all the kids.
And so we sat down and identified what the discipline would be for breaking the rules.
And it was different for all three so recognizing that we can't treat them all the same.
You can love them all the Yes and in loving them is recognizing they're all different Madeline, she has ADHD and so we have follow-ups with her psychiatrist, right, for medication and, um, we recently went to one and in the assessment, one of the questions is, is, "Are you being honest? Are you telling the truth?" And, and, and she's like, "Uh-huh."
I said, "You are?" She said, "Yeah."
I said, "Oh, you haven't gotten out of bed at night to go get your phone off the charger and use it in the middle of the night?" You know about that? I said, "Sweetie, you are my fourth child.
If you think...
Your door is right here and my bedroom door is right here, and if you think that you can get out of bed at 11:30 at night, walk through our house with wood creaky floors, take something off the charger in the room that the cat and the dog live in, come all the way back to your room and giggle at a YouTube video, you think I don't know you're doing that?" And she's like, "Why didn't you tell me?" And I said, "This is so normal to sneak.
This is so normal to sneak around.
And now here's your lesson, and now you have to store your devices in my room."
Right? Now you've lost the privilege.
But that's all she needs.
She doesn't need for me to yell at her.
She doesn't need for me to tell her, "You're such a bad kid."
Mm-hmm.
natural consequence, I think that's the la- the last piece of advice.
The natural consequence of now I trust you a little bit less, and now your device is in my bedroom.
That's all the punishment she needs.
That's it.
You're not a bad kid.
You're a really good kid who's having a hard time right now.
And teaching kids that their behavior is not them, right? Just because you did this sneaky thing this time does not mean you are a sneaky person.
It means you're a normal kid testing a boundary.
This is normal.
And you got caught, and so now you have a consequence.
That's it.
Your brain is actually telling you to do these Yeah because this is how, this is how we grow and this is how we learn.
um, gosh, that was something, like, learning that while parenting them as, as well, me learning and being more mature.
Because 10 years ago, big mm-hmm, right? My big kids are like, "You would have oh, I wouldn't have.
I would've gotten out of bed, and I would've yelled at you, and I would've made you feel like shit.
Yep, that's where I have to apologize to you, not treat her differently.
I have to apologize to you I was talking to Kayden, and I said that Jacen is actually the kindest of all my children, during this teenage years.
And I was like, part of the reason he's kind is because of the way that my parenting has changed, and the reason that my older kids, you know, think, "Well, that was disrespectful.
You would have never let me do that," I realized that wasn't disrespectful.
I realized he was dysregulated, and I, as the adult in the room, should not have been trying to have a conversation with him at Yes That was me learning that, yes, you got yelled at because it was disrespectful because that's where I was at in my learning and my ability to Yes as a parent, and I have learned so much through Yes Like, I was the problem when things were spiraling.
I needed the Yeah, I was s- I would have taken the timeout, If I would've, yes, if I would've known how to regulate myself and I, if I would've had more emotional intelligence, it, it would've been so much more smooth sailing.
The struggles that I had as a younger parent were not because my children behaved differently than the child I have now.
It's because I behaved differently.
And you know what? There's a, there is one parenting advice giver that I do follow now who I deeply respect, and one of the things that she talks about is how kids really need a sturdy leader.
They just need sturdy leadership.
And sturdy leadership means I can manage myself, and I- it's okay if someone is mad, and it is okay if someone is sad.
I can be the container for that, and I will be here when the feeling starts, I will be here in the middle of the feeling, and I will be here at the end of the feeling.
And that is something I could not do when I was younger Me neither.
Me neither.
And I didn't even, I didn't even know what, I didn't even know what regulation No back then, right? And, um, a lot of things that they see the difference between that is really just because I'm more emotionally For sure.
And I feel Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
so many Yeah like...
Yeah, I mean, now granted, we're all so tired, and so then we feel bad for our younger kids as well, like we wish we had as much Yeah, that's true.
our That's true.
we did have with our older.
There's There are trade-offs.
You know what, uh, what Ellie said to me recently? We were talking about this same thing, and she said, "You know what, Mom? When I was younger, I just thought you had your period all the time."
Cause I was so unhinged.
Yeah.
No, I get I was like, "I'm sorry, babe."
I said, "I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry."
But how great for our kids to hear that, to hear a parent say, "I'm sorry.
What can I do to make this better? How can I be a good parent to you right now?" And yeah, that wasn't normal that I did that.
That wasn't because of you, that was because of me.
Like, clean up your side of the street, parents.
If you're struggling in relationships with your kids or if the way that your kids are behaving feels so overwhelming to you, learn how to regulate yourself, learn about regulation, learn about how to hold your emotions, hold space for your emotions until they pass through, and you will find parenting gets easier.
I know it sounds counterintuitive, right? But it is very, very true.
When you have more space for yourself, parenting gets easier And never discipline in the middle of anger.
Make sure that you are regulated and emotionally disconnected from that Mm-hmm.
before you move into Yeah.
The thing you need to discipline...
Yeah, the thing you need to discipline for, it'll still be there in five minutes if you take a beat to calm down.
That problem ain't, still be there in an that problem ain't going anywhere.
It was like when, when Sam, when I got called to pick her up because she was drunk in her junior year of high school, and Samantha had to the rehab I was working in, working in, not attending, working in, to pick up my daughter who was intoxicated.
And I was seething and having a whole conversation with my sister on the way down.
It was like a 30-minute drive.
Like, "I can't believe she did this to me.
I, I do presentations at their school on parenting, and my daughter is drinking."
I bring her home and I said, "I'm so angry right now.
We just cannot have any conversation about this at all.
Like, the reason that I'm quiet is because I know that nothing that I say right now is actually going to help any one of us.
And so, you know what? Like, here's your phone.
take this next few hours that I am at work and enjoy whatever there is to enjoy.
We 'Cause it's all going away soon have this conversation when we get home."
Right? And then when I was, when I was able to get home and have space from that whole entire thing, and it was hours later from that time, we were able to have a really fruitful discussion.
And yes, there were consequences, and yes, things, you know, um, happened, natural consequences like suspension from school and not being able to, you know, her straight As that she had at the time were going away from that suspension and not being able to do any of her schoolwork.
Like, natural consequences that came from that.
But we were able to have a conversation that helped us connect in a way that if I would've just done it in anger and upset at that moment, and not been able to separate my personal feelings and emotions from it, it would've looked so totally different, Oh, right? And it's like you have to get to know yourself, too.
While we're always looking to, what can my kids do differently to help parenting be more easy, it's really more about, what can I learn about myself and how can I be accountable, and how can I love myself, right? Yes.
How can...
Instead of being so ashamed that I'm doing this parenting thing or this reaction that I hate, I can say, "Ugh, I'm doing the stupid thing I do.
I'm so sorry.
Help me get out of it.
Like, please someone help me."
Right? And so I think it's also just being along for the ride, letting me learn about me while I help them learn about them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think honestly too, we take parenting way too seriously Yeah Yeah, like It's okay to make mistakes.
Honestly, for real, and please actually make Yeah because every mistake that we make and a- take accountability for and make repair for, models to our children that they can make mistakes and it's repairable.
Yep And it's not the end of the world.
When we try and be like this perfect person and inhuman and, you know, ignoring the fact that we have human responses and we have, we are human, and things, you know, are going to happen, and we are going to fail, and we are going to make mistakes, and we are gonna hurt their feelings.
And we are gonna mess something up really bad, but we can always model accountability and repair.
That is like the best thing that we can actually give our kids, is to love them for who they are and model mistakes and repair Yeah.
know Jaelene and I could talk forever when it comes to parenting, but partly because, um, we've been So long.
for 27 tired So when you're 51 years old, 50, 51, I'm so tired like, wow, like two-thirds of our lives, um, we've been parenting now, and it doesn't just end, right? Like we were babies when our babies were born, and so we've kind of grown up in this space.
Um, and also we've had some really hard times with our kiddos, and we know that our kiddos, because of who they are- Will possibly, quite possibly experience hard times, um, because they don't fit into, um, the whatever of whatever society feels like people should be right now.
Um- We got lots of feelings on it We do.
We do.
Yeah We do.
But I think it's...
I'm really grateful that we've had the conversation about it though.
I think, Mm-hmm.
hopefully maybe have given, um, some parents out there some things to think about, and some space to be themselves, right? And, um, also a little tidbit about allyship, right? And, and what is our concern and what is not our concern with other people's kids Yeah Amen to that.
Yeah, it's been great.
This has been a good conversation it has.
It has, and now we'll go and be parents because it's It's summer.
Wah, wah Which we have love-hate relationships with summer.
And they need some time where they can't talk to me Yes Yes, the silent retreat is still I know.
Sh- Todd she's, uh, on vacation with her dad right now, and I texted her last night and said, "Could you go out and throw your phone into the ocean please? I could use some silence."
Yeah.
Yeah.
Love it.
I love my mom friend.
That's you.
Me That's you, by the way.
I, I, yeah, I, it took me a second.
Like, it, it, and then I was like, "Oh, wait, she's talking about me.
I Yeah.
too."
Okay all right.
We will talk to you Next time thank you for joining us today.
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We will be back next week with a guest, Lauren, and she will be talking to us about joy and happiness and how she just does that naturally in her life.
So hopefully we learn something from her.
Have a great week