Latest / Beheaded / Family of Traitors | Edward Stafford, 3rd Duke of Buckingham

Transcript

Family of Traitors | Edward Stafford, 3rd Duke of Buckingham · Beheaded

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to season four, episode five.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Megan Moore.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Elizabeth Black.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wearing the snuggiest of Snuggies.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: That is actually quite cute.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, now you look like a Charles Dickens character.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: What are you doing?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: I look like Bruno from Encanto.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you do.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's like this, it's it's a snuggie, right?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: What are you wearing?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is a high-end Snuggie.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's from LL Bean.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm sorry, it's not a snuggy, it's an LL Bean bloody blanket cape.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's a blanket cape.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Shirt.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a really fluffy cape with a hood.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a blanket.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Are you gonna wear that the entire episode?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Is this just for the intro?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Is this like a temporary or like a thing I should be getting used to?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Is it distracting?
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, when I look at you, I can't like what if I do it like this?
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's where she's putting it above her nose.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's I'm not even cold.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: I just love this thing.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: So my mom got it for my husband for Christmas slash his birthday.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Was it like a joke gift or was it like a I want you to have this because it's cozy gift?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of started as a joke because he's always cold.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: You both are always cold.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Anytime I come over, Megan's like, I turned the heat up for you, and Jake's like, Thank God.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: I even lit a fire for you.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I know, I appreciate it.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: And yet I'm the one with the snuggy on.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's just really comfy.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it started as a joke, but I end up I'm wearing it.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: So the one every night she bought it for who is cold doesn't wear it.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: You do, and you're not cold.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I made fun of it at first, but now I love it.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it has pockets.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: I yeah, I see that.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: But can we go back to the fact that you're being selfish?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Your remote control in it and snacks?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: You're like one of those women who can't find their remote, so they find it in like their bosom.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, there's where the remote is.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever I keep my Apple TV remote and in this pocket I put snacks.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's very do you use it when you work?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: I do sometimes.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'll take it off for a Zoom meeting, but I'll put it on.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you should keep it for the Zoom meeting and let everyone know who you are.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think they know who I am, unfortunately.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: One the other day I turned on my Zoom and I was wearing a Marie Antoinette wig.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, no.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: The one you're gonna wear to your Taylor concert?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: To Taylor Swift, yeah.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Don't let actually that part needs to get cut out.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want people to know my costume because say that and nothing else.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Someone might copy me.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think anyone who listens to this podcast is gonna be in the same arena you are in the same row wearing the same costume.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: I am going the second night, so I think we're safe.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think you can keep that in.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, anyways, I have nothing going on in my life, but you do.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Hi.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, first of all, um, I just wanted to point out that if I were Jake, I'd be very upset that you were taking my Snuggie because I'm the person in the relationship that like my fingers are gonna fall off every night because I'm so cold.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, not right now.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: I have to wash it.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of stupid.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just saying, between like me and Robbie, like I'm always the cold one.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: And he's always trying to figure out ways to like make the one of these.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: This is legit from LL Bean, and it wasn't cheap.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: I looked it up, it was like$75.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: His dad for Christmas did get me like an LL bean hoodie thing because he knows that I'm just freezing all the time.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, literally, I've I've told Robbie this.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I think at any point, like a finger or a toe or an ear might fall off.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm always cold in the winter.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: I should take it dangerous.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: You post it now.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Should I?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just go ready?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Make sure the sound's on so people know you're doing it.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: Put your picture in the background.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Put Charlotte in the back.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: You look like dark winged duck.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: I've never done like a just a live picture before.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's beautiful.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Post it.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Should I post it?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, not right now.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna do it right now.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: Keep talking.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna post it.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: What am I gonna do?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna go.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: What's going on in your life?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: Exciting things are happening.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so Robbie and I are purchasing a new house right now.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yay! Yay! All the clappy hands.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, fun fact like I already like have like a condo in Phoenix that I Airbnb out, and it's been a you know, fun little adventure, but we wanted like a house house that we could live in and you know, get a new dog in and all the things, and like, you know, like like the real home homeownership deals.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a cute little like three-bedroom plus a little study, like nice big area with a big backyard.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: And we're very thrilled, but it is what you call a quote unquote fixer upper.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: So we've had to literally not not gut, but like new walls, new floors, like new vanities, new lighting, like everything's just like bare bones.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: So we just got the walls completely finished and the paint done, and like we're putting in the floors, and like I love that stuff because I love like designing homes, but like Robbie's very like basic in his design, and he doesn't he doesn't listen, so I can say this.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I I've literally designed multiple Pinterest boards for him to be like, Oh, do you like mid-century modern?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Do you like Art Deco?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, tell me which vibe you want to go with.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm kind of a little funky with my design, and he's like, I really like the white cabinets, and they're like, What kind of little doggy you gonna get?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, I don't know.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't know.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see what makes sense with what kind of little doggy we get.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: But then the house does come with a new doggy door, which means it should come with a dog.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: It sh probably does.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: They probably haven't told us about it yet.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Let the dog find you.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: The dog will find us.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: The dog who needs to be adopted will speak to you, and you'll find that connection.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited in one of the many posts that I send you of Dogs and Wheelchairs.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: I appre keep sending them.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: I like the one where his tongue was hanging out and he was disabled.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Megan wants me to end up with the most like like funk funky F dup dog ever.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: No, the most needed.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: The most with the most character.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: The one that needs you the most.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, yeah.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: So it's gonna be an adventure, but unfortunately, we don't actually move in for like another couple weeks, so we're just kind of in this limbo.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: We're picking everything out, but we're not actually.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's the fun part.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: No, and I appreciate it, but he does, you know, again, he I showed him the Pinterest boards, and he's like, the white cabinets and the dark floors and the stainless steel appliances, and I'm like, that's great, but that's also Megan.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's gonna be beautiful.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um I keep offering to give you things and then taking it away.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I love Megan because every other day she's like, Hey, you know my green velvet chair?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want it?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh my god, yeah, I'd love that chair.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then 30 minutes later, she's like, Oh, I didn't actually ask Jake, and he says, No, we can't get rid of the chair.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: I've done that several times.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so sorry.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: You can have my piano that I bought during COVID.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: The piano, remember we talked about this.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what episode, but at some point we talked about how Megan only knows the like part of your world from Little Mermaid Song.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I told her, yes, I will take the piano and I will continue that song.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I also know the beginning of Black Parade by my chemical romance.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I can do Hedwig's theme.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: You can?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Do do do do that's impressive.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's John Williams.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I take after the composer.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, good.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um what have I been up to?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I've been I've been reading a lot because I I I realize was it last year?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Two years ago.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: How long have we been doing this?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Four years.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: When we're fourth season.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: So in our second season, I said I was going to read twenty.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: I said I was gonna read twenty-five books that year.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: You did?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I did or not, but I have a new resolution.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: My new resolution this is unverified resolution from 2020, getting an update.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: I have to read all the books in my house before I buy anything new.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: That I actually really like because I think a lot of us are guilty of like buying books that we're like, this is great, I want to read this, and then we just wait a few years and that's bad.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: You should read it, and then I already failed because I bought that book Severed, which is about people who are beheaded.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Really quick, tell me which room, which rooms, which rooms in this book have you not read?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, which books in this room have you not read?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Besides like the coffee table books.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: I am looking.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I still need to read Alison Weir's The Children of King Henry VIII.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: I need to read Ambolin A Fatal Attraction.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: With Demi Moore.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Red, red.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's an indecent proposal.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: I started Dan Jones' The Templars and I didn't finish it.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: I need to finish that one.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: I see.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we talked about this last time, Allison Weir's Um, The Six Tudor Queens, Catherine of Aragon, which last episode I said Catherine Aragon, and I don't know why I called her that.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Aragon or Aragon.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: I said there was no of.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like Catherine Aragon.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: You did?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: Aragon.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I didn't know that.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think I called her Aragorn, like uh Lord of the Rings.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: But we all get influenced by outside factors from time to time.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: I just finished reading Oh, what's what was it called?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Royal Witches.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: That sounded by I think Gemma Hoffman.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Really interesting, and it totally plummeted me into War of the Roses and Elizabeth Woodville and Edward IV.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna talk about some of that.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I guess.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we can say that.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I read that one.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: I just finished Tyburn um about London's gallows.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: That one was not what I was expecting because a lot of it was records of people who were executed.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Still incredible to like have as a reference point, but there was a lot of really cool stuff in there about attending an execution and where the gallows were and who was being executed there.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a lot of stuff I didn't realize.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's like having Elizabeth Bathory's like log of people she knew.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like even though, yeah, you don't know these people, it's still cool to have like a log of all.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I read through like someone, and it was cool because a lot of the names, I was like, oh, like Maggie Dixon, even though she wasn't she was not hanged at Tyburn, but they uh just talk they had this whole chapter.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they had this whole chapter about when like hangings can go wrong and just a lot of stuff that we've talked about.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, you know, these are our people, like these are our this is a book for us.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: And quick little shout out to like some recent fans that have reached out to us.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, we've we've obviously been doing this for a few seasons and we've slowly been attracting a little fan base.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I I love it.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: And Megan told me of one recently where she's like, oh, this one girl reached out and just like out of nowhere was like, I can't believe people are into this.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: I've always loved this.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: I love hearing that.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I just like again, if you're a person who's into it, like, and you might have friends that could be into this too, like, there's a lot of us, right?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like this exciting topic.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: People love executions, they love it and they hate it and they're intrigued by it.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we're here to talk about.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about executions.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Historical executions.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: I always have to just be my yeah.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, thanks to not you, Elizabeth.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you to another Elizabeth who reached out and kind of shared her story to me about how she's always been fascinated.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the story I feel like so many people relate to, and I kind of hear over and over, and I relate to this is when you're a kid, and the first time you read a book or a textbook, or you come across something and you learn about someone who was executed and beheaded, and you just become in completely intrigued and concerned and obsessed over it, or even spooked by it.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Spooked by it.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a very similar feeling when I first read about Anne Boleyn in that first book right there, sitting there.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's a children's book.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: But that's great.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was the first time, and and I was like, Mom, what's a beheading?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: And she told me, and I just kept reading that page over like trying to understand what was happening.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was nine years old.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's what other Elizabeth story was too, how she saw this like book and she was just engrossed by it.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, if if you can relate, that's what we're here to talk about.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: We're all so we're all like it's not as weird as you think.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people are really into this, and it's great to get those stories from from listeners that like easily get grab, you know, gravitate towards this content because like, wow, I didn't know anyone else really liked this.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and we and we learn.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: We do, and we we learn, and we'll talk about more in this episode too.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: We all we obviously correct ourselves over time.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, like the more we learn the more we learn about these figures, the stories get interwoven and they make more sense over time.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's cool for us to see, like, oh, here's this story we thought was a standalone story, but it actually connects to more, and here's corrections that we've had from our past episodes.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, again, that's like we always encourage you guys to go back to previous episodes and dig because those were our first iterations of the stories, and now we just kind of piggyback on a lot of content too.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: Just a quick little plug for us and for our listeners and for all of you out there that love dark history.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: As a reminder, we are still learning.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: As a reminder.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Learning how to play.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: Straightforward because he's British.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: He's British.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: He's a tutor.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: We're doing, I think it's our first tutor of He's not a tutor, but of the Tudor Court.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: The Tudor Court.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's our first tutor execution in this season.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Season, which is crazy because we're on episode five.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: We try to balance out the tutors.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: We do, they are pretty dominant.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the tutor dynasty was pretty dominant with their executions, and there's some big players in that whole era, so we have to trickle them throughout.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we are talking about one that maybe you've heard of, maybe you haven't.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't heard of his name, he's definitely in a lot of renditions of different tutor shows and movies and all the good stars shows.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: He's in there.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: Would you like to introduce him, Elizabeth?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: So this is the third Duke of Buckingham, Edward Stafford.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: And just really quick, if you have no idea who this is, but you've seen the tutored show on Showtime, he's like the redhead guy that shows up in the first season who's like plotting to overthrow the king, essentially.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: He's also in The Spanish Princess.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Totally different look.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: He's missing an eye.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Don't ask questions.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's not missing eye.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Don't need to ask any questions about that eye.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get into it.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Or the lack of not having the eye was there.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll get into that.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: I made that more confusing than I needed.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna breeze past that.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Please interrupt me.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just go past whatever you just said.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we're gonna get into a little bit of his like familial background, like why he's even in this conversation, and then kind of talk about again early life and where he got to, where he got to in the English court.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: So, first of all, he was born February 3rd, 1478.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: And he was born to obviously the second Duke of Buckingham, because he's the third, and the second Duke of Buckingham's name is Henry Stafford, who was married to Catherine Woodville, and their eldest son was Edward Stafford.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Which, really quick, I thought was funny that his name was Edward and not Henry after his father, because Henry's second son was named Henry.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: So usually you name Henry Stafford's first son.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Usually you would name your first son Henry.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: They're all so confusing.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: We yeah, and we'll get into this because there's obviously in this era we know tons of the same names.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I I I think the reason why they named him Henry was because at the time King Edward IV was on the throne.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I didn't think of that.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I know I I thought that's right.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I was like, why would you name your second son after you?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh, because your first son's named after the king.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then your second son is named after you.
• 16:23
  unknown: Yeah.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: What was that Henry the Seventh?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: At this time, I think it was King Edward or Edward IV.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think you're right.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so when was the Battle of Bosworth?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you you look that up.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but our person that we're talking about today, Edward Stafford, he was actually the nephew of King Edward IV.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: If you're if you're wondering how he's related to King Henry VIII, who we talk about a lot in these stories, he is the first cousin once removed from King Henry VIII.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: So he was born in Wales at Breakin Castle.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: And again, like it's just funny that he was the eldest son, but his second brother was named Henry.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so, really quick fact before we even get into his story, when he was just, I believe, five years old, his own father, the second Duke of Buckingham, Henry Stafford, was executed.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's already laying the foundation for his whole life.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll talk about why that is in a little bit of the background.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but his mother, Catherine, had to go on to marry two other people after his father died.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: One was Jasper Tudor, and after his death, she married Richard Wingfeld.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: Which, really quick, I've talked about like kind of my line to marry Boleyn in the past.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: And my great-grandfather, who is on that line, was named Jasper.
• 17:39
  unknown: Yeah.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: And we know the last name Tudor.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: That sounds familiar.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: That exactly.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: My great-grandfather was Jasper Cole.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay for those who are interested, a little little man from Nebraska.
• 17:50
  unknown: Nice.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of these names are gonna be familiar, though.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: For example, Catherine Woodville, his mother.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Woodville, for those who are aware, is yes, she is related to Elizabeth Woodville, who was married, the Queen of England, she was married to Edward IV.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: So to break this out, this is where we get complicated.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: This is funny, and we're actually gonna post a picture of the family tree because it gets a little convoluted, but Megan's gonna be.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, me trying to we had the family tree up on the TV trying to put pull the lines together.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Catherine Woodville is the sister of Elizabeth Woodville.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna just briefly go into a very high level of what was going on in that period.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Edward IV was on the throne, he overthrew Henry VI.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: This was back in the day of like the Lancastrians versus the Yorks, the Yorkists, and kings actually fought in battle and they would fight and get their crown and take over and rule, and that's exactly what happened with Edward IV.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the War of Roses, correct?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, yeah.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the War of Roses uh-huh comes in with Richard III and Henry the Seventh.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, this is kind of the the start of it of trying to figure out who the heck is ruling England.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Elizabeth Woodville was kind of a nobody.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, her mother had some royal lineage, or at one point in her previous marriage, she was had connections to the court.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: But other than that, she married a squire, Richard Woodville.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: They have Elizabeth Woodville, they had 14 kids.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Whoa.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: People sometimes didn't like the Woodvilles because Edward IV falls in love with Elizabeth, they get married, she's now Queen of England and she was a nobody.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: And they quite advantageously marry off all 14 kids to someone very important.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And they start like laying their roots and they rise up real fast as a family.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And a part of this is Catherine Woodville.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: She was only seven years old when she married Henry, Henry Stafford, the second Duke of Buckingham.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: He was 11 and she was seven.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Mind you, that doesn't mean like they're living as husband wife at that age.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's just more of a like formal betrothal marriage.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: They were married.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like this was said consummation.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, let's wait.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Let's pull the brakes on that a little bit.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Pull the brakes, push the brakes, pull it, push it.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Push it, pull it.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: But after.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, anyways, just to give some background on that.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for all these reasons, Edward Stafford, and this will come into play down the line.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: He is a distant relative, I guess we can say, of Edward III.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: He, if you go up through his grandparents on his paternal side, his well, great-great great, maybe just two greats.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's a great two great grandfathers was the son of Edward III, who wasn't on the throne, but he was like the last surviving son of so this is I I'm explaining all of this because the lineage is gonna become very important throughout the story.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank god I'm sober for this one.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: Megan's doing dry January, so she's helping.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: She's getting through these family trees more swiftly than uh than a normal episode.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: This is no Broomhilde episode for me.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: This is good.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just nodding my head like, yep, yep, yep, yep.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so as Elizabeth mentioned, his father, Henry Stafford, was executed.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: And this is kind of a much bigger thing, but this is taking us back to the Princess in the Tower, Richard III, who came in line after Edward IV and kind of hastily took the crown and slipped it out from under the feet of Edward's children.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: At first, Henry Stafford was a big supporter of Richard III.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Since the whole nasty debacle of the Princess in the Tower, which is a whole if you don't know what I'm watching, that that is a story to read about, my goodness.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the two.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Young princes who went missing in the Tower of London, supposedly murdered by their uncle Richard III.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Henry Stafford, at first, he was actually accused of being part of that and was the reason why either he did the murdering or he schemed it or he put it together or he was doing on behalf of Richard.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: We don't actually know the true story, but all that said and done, while he was once a supporter of Richard III, he actually ended up going against him and he um he started a rebellion against his entire uh rule, and that ended up with him being called a traitor and he was executed, he was beheaded.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: So this is kind of how our our Edward Stafford, who we're gonna be talking about, this is how his life started of just seeing his father go from different sides of supporting the king to not supporting the king to being executed by Richard III.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, that might have been a little complicated and a lot, but and and the whole history is complicated.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah you know, a lot of this is a bit uh convoluted.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but essentially, long story short, Henry Stafford the father is beheaded without a trial.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: Edward, who's our main character today, was only five years old when this happened.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: So it was said that he was actually hidden in various households throughout England, perhaps through the rest of Richard III's reign.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that was about until 1485.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: So until 1485, he's essentially just kind of stowed away because they're not sure what the fate of the family is.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: But eventually it's okay for him to re-emerge.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: In 1485, Henry the Seventh basically arises to power.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so Edward at that time, once he came to power, was made Knight of the Order of Bath.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: And he attended the coronation of Henry the Seventh.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: He was only eight years old at the time, so he's very, very young.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: But he was essentially given lands and wardship, and he was essentially just kind of welcomed back into court, saying, Hey, you're of royal blood, you're like you're allowed to be here.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: No, like regardless of what your father did, it's okay.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: So he starts enjoying the courtly life.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not until he is 16 years old, so fast forward a few years to 1494, that he was made Knight of the Order of the Garter.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: And he first saw young King Henry VIII get elevated to his first position of Duke of York.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: So he's very much in the early Tudor court years.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: So when Henry VIII becomes Duke of York, um, Edward is there.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: He's there at the coronation, and he's very much in, you know, the inner circle of this court at the time.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: So by the time he's 19 years old, which is three years later, he then became captain um in the forces sent to crush a rebellion in Cornwall.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: So now he's gotten military titles.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, okay, this young boy who was in hiding is now given a few kind of courtly responsibilities.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: Now he's leading armies, and people became very enthralled with him at court.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: And there's um a quote that says that people this is really funny, but it says the people of the court, they were dazzling observers of his sartorial splendor.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, what the fuck is Satorial?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I looked it up, and Satorial literally implies like your manner of dress and the way you're tailored.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: So essentially, if you're dressed in a way that's very appropriate to the occasion and you, you know, you look very lavish in all of your wardrobe, that is essentially affecting people at court.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because remember, we think about court in this era, right?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: There's no social media, there's no outside influences, all you have is court and courtly gossip and things that are happening, you know, buzzing around at this time.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: So if you see someone who's very finely dressed, it's like modern social media.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: We're like, oh, like what is that outfit?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what does where do they get that?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: What what does that cost?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is a little funny part, but um, he actually attended the wedding of Catherine of Aragon and Arthur.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: And if we remember Arthur, Arthur is King Henry VIII's eldest brother that she was married to before they were married.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: So Catherine of Aragon and Arthur have this wedding, and he wore a gown that at the time cost 1,500 pounds.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: And Megan and I tried to look this up because we're like, okay, what is that in today's a lot?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: Even today, yeah.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: We it's at least a half a million dollars in today's American money.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: At least.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: It might be closer to like quarter.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: Could be more.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, not quarter, three quarters of a million.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: The closest we could get just by Googling it, which I think I broke Google trying to ask this question.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Google like didn't understand the question.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, how much is 1,500 pounds and 1,500 in England to now today?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they were like, please adjust this to 1750.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the closest we could get were in the year 1750, 1,500 pounds would have been equivalent to today's value of about half a million US dollars.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if that was 200 plus years before that, that I don't I that's gotta be an exaggeration.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's no freaking way.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was telling Megan, because she was like, there's no way, there's no way, but I don't believe it.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: But I was like, think about rumors, rumors, gossip.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Think about today's like met gala in New York and all the things the celebrities wear.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like between jewelry and shoes and outfit, like maybe I think they could easily get half a million dollars in an outfit.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe, you know, and again, we're not we're not like people that follow celebrity trends and whatever, but I I think that's fair.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think he was probably one of those people that's like, okay, so today uh Ed or Edward Stafford is wearing the um the$1,500 uh suit.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: Excuse me,$1,500 pound outfit with leggings and garter.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: I know, it's probably which is weird because wouldn't you not outdress the king?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think he wanted to.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think that was kind of his first mistake.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: And that and I think that's why King Henry had, and we'll talk about this obviously later, but I think that's why King Henry VIII first had his eye on him, because he was a very conspicuous figure at court.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: He stood out very boldly, and people were like, Oh, who's that?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, look how he's dressed.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: Look, he looks so wealthy.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um and through all of this, too.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we'll again we'll we'll talk a little bit more about King Henry and his coronation, but throughout all this, too, um Edward is married.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: He's married to Eleanor Percy, actually, um, who is the daughter of Sir Henry Percy.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: All these names, like all these last names, they just come up again.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just thinking Anne Boleyn when she tried to betrothe herself to Henry Percy.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what's funny, is like again, a lot of these names are reused over time and titles are reused, so it does get a little confusing.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, so so she so they get married in in uh 1440, and they have four kids together.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: So they have three daughters and a son.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Sons named Henry, and shockingly, all the daughters are named Elizabeth, Catherine, and Mary.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Original.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so like they they all had the same names over time, and even today, right, we still use these names.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: They're very recycled.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um Elizabeth.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: As I'm speaking, I'm like, oh yeah, Elizabeth.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um so so anyway, we get to finally 1509, which is Henry VIII's coronation.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: And at that time, uh, Edward is still very much a court figure.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: So at the day of Henry's coronation, he's made Lord High Constable for the day of the coronation.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: He's also made Lord High Steward, and he's the one bearing the crown.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like he's bringing the crown up for Henry to be um coronated.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: So he's very much, again, just like a very public figure who probably is handsome, probably is wealthy looking, probably people just want him to be seen in all these public situations.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that same year, when King Henry VIII was put on the throne, he was officially a member of the Privy Council.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: Ooh.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: I know, which is, as we've known, we've talked about this a lot and think very, you know, Game of Thronesy, but it is literally your private council that you have, that's your most trusted advisors that tells you what to do in all matters of state.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: So he officially is elevated to that position.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And at that time, that was what, 1509?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 1509.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: He was 31 years old.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the prime of his life.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Young, very, very young.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, pretty successful and pretty nice clothes um it was shortly after this in 1511, and this is the part I was really interested in.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he purchased Thornbury Castle, which is in Gloucestershire, England.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Might sound familiar because you've been there.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: I went to Thornbury Castle and had a cool video posted from there.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Which I have to explain myself.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Again, we're all about learning and figuring things out later.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was uneducated.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, not even a year ago.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Just one bit.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: One bit.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: One bit of it was.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty embarrassed, and I I there's no way I can edit it.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: I can't change it, it's out there.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I was excited to go to Thornbury Castle.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: It is now a modern day, gorgeous, beautiful hotel.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's beautiful.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: I shared the story a few times, but it's worth mentioning again that I very meticulously and particularly chose the room.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the way to say it?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why I'm coming up with these words tonight.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I chose the room to stay in that, of course, Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn slept in, and that was a really, really, really big deal to me.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really know that much about the history of the castle, except when I first got into the room and I made a video, which is on our Instagram.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I pointed up to this really cool original piece of the room.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Motif.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like a painted emblem with some writing paint and logos or American.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Not a logo, what's it called?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh an inscription?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's the animals, the heraldry?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Heraldry.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like their coat of arms.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Coat of arms.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it was in this old English font.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to say I was looking up at the ceiling, reading it upside down.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the R, the N, no, it was a C.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: The C the C look like an R.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: I very naively I was like, Edward Stafford, the third Duke of Birkinham.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Birkinham.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I tried to play it off like, oh, maybe I'm just an American, and that's how I say Buckingham.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, I legit thought it was Birkinham.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't put the pieces together that it was that Edward Stafford.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, like a lot of repeat names and whatnot.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't click in my brain that it was the this the dude who this was his castle.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: That was his room that he stayed in.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: That was like the main tower of the city.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Somewhere he was rolling in his grave.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, ugh, Birmingham.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: So embarrassed.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: The next day I took a history tour of the castle and then she explained.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, wait, the one guy from the Tudors in season one with the red hair is like, yeah, that's him.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, that asshole, why?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: That asshole.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's such an American way to say it.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, wait, season one, Tudors, red hair, that asshole.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, yes, yes, American.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: That is Edward Stafford, the third Duke of Buckingham.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he's a Birkinham.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: The castle is already in existence.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: 1511.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Buckingham purchased it and refurbished it, got it all under construction, got it all spiff and span.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: Spiffin's span.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've got these phrases.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: I just say slightly wrong.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: I love when my friend says things that are slightly wrong.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm trying to say.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: He remodeled.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: He did.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like you are.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: He had to argue.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: He had to be like, what what paint colors do we want?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of flooring goes here?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: He was totally your only mom white cabinets.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: Eleanor, yeah.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Eleanor Percy was like, no, let's add color.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Who called who basic is what I want to know.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the cons construction went on for many years.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: I saw it in its most beautiful modern form.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure that, you know, obviously years of construction since.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: But um, anyways, that's kind of my connection that I have with Buckingham.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Is I slept in the room that was his for two nights.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's exciting.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of money.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: For too much American money.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: Was it for 1,500 pounds a night?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Actually.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was definitely the whole splurge of our entire England trip.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: So worth it though.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was so worth it.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: I would do it again.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: I highly recommend if you need to totally feel like you're wasting money, do it on something that you really, really, really love that's gonna create a lasting oh, that was a core memory for me.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: And just your pictures too.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like Megan showed me pictures, like she showed me a lot of pictures from her trip, obviously.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: But like all 1700.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: But today we were going through some ones I hadn't seen before where she was taking her like key to that room around to like the local pubs and like local shops.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: She's just taking pictures of the key in like different settings.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, this is amazing.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: I I love stuff like that.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like me, I'm totally a details person who likes to see like objects in certain places.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was like, oh my gosh, this key at that pub, like that's brilliant.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: The most more like to me, those pubs are what like so unique, so cool.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: So people can appreciate the artistry that goes into well, unless hotels you just have like a little card.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I I appreciate hotels.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Full-on skeleton key with the with a big leather strap that said King Henry VIII.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was great.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all that said, I apologize if anybody thought I said Birkingham in that video.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: You are one hundred percent correct.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm now more educated.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Here I am nine months later.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: I have gone around the world, I am know who Buckingham is, and look at me go.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna continue on with that.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's why we do this whole thing, right?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because eventually you start connecting players in this whole game together.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: You can refer to our earlier episodes and start piecing fragments of the story.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: So fast forward a few years to 1513, and Edward is now 35 years old.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: He serves again as a captain in the army, this time to King Henry VIII and his invasion of France.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: And he's commanding over 500 men.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: So again, at this point, he is very much in favor, he is still relevant in the court.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then a few years later, he's also chosen to joust against the king in a tournament.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: But at this point, he is 39 years old, and he knows King Henry VIII is very important.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: He doesn't necessarily want to joust against him, so he actually declines the joust.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: So we just want to make it clear at this point that he was never quite in King Henry VIII's like immediate inner circle, but he is generally there.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: He's there for important battles, he's there for important like pageantry reasons, and he's there just you know, in the court as a member of the of the court that's like you know, I think.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: People knew who he was.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, it's I feel like it's like a Greek drama where you have the chorus, and they're all he's just like a chorus figure in the background.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and that's how I feel like he is in all the all the stars TV shows, yeah.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Showtime and the tutors and whatever.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: He's just like he's always there.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: He's always there, like you always know who he is, he's always an important figure, but he's never quite a main figure.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so again, at this point uh in King Henry VIII's rule, he's also charged with keeping order in South Wales because he is again, after all, born in yeah, born in Wales.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: He's he's Welsh.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: So uh and in at this point in 1518, King Henry VIII starts kind of like circling him out, and he starts saying, Hey, you're not really doing your job in the south of Wales.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, whatever you're doing isn't really working.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's still this isn't working for us.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: This isn't quite working.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna need to uh think about other options.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: Explore some more options, maybe outsource.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so so King Henry VIII starts starts to officially have his eye um out for Edwards uh Stafford.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: And like, really quick, kind of his last fleeting glimpse of like fame is during 1520, where he is at the cloth of gold, where we we talked about this before he podcasted.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's the field of the cloth of gold.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: The field of the cloth of gold, which is like a big festival, and this is like all around uh betrothing Mary Tudor, so Mary the First, to Francis the First of France, who is old, who was a little bit older, older than she was she was a child.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she was a she was very much a kid, and so they were trying to have this whole like ceremony festival thing that lasted for I think a month.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was like three weeks or something, maybe more, in June.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: But it was like a summit to get the kings together.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: And some say this is the first time that Henry VIII actually met Mary Boleyn, and Boleyn's sister, because at the time she was mistress to the King of France, and so he was like, Hey, this is my little like French courtesan that I have who's always around.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you've seen the again Showtime Tutors, that's where he's kind of like, Oh, like who's this Mary Boleyn girl?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: So, like a lot of significant things are happening, but uh in terms of uh of Edward Stafford, he's at this point very well known in court, but he's starting to kind of draw the eye of the king in a bad way.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-oh.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: He's a sharp dresser, he also has a lot of plantagenate blood in him, and all of this starts to really arouse suspicion.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: So by that same year, the field of the cloth of gold, which is 1520, and at this point Edward is 42 years old.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: Henry's suspicions really get the best of him, and he starts just looking very astutely at Edward and saying, Something's wrong with you, and I don't know what it is, but I'm gonna find what it is.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm gonna figure it out.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't like you.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like you.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: And Henry was a suspicious character, anyways.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: He was constantly very, very worried of being overthrown.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: He was obviously shadowed.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: His outdressed what if this is just about fashion?
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Outfashioned who?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what if at the end of the street?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: Who had the bigger cod piece?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's what I was gonna say.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because the only pictures I've seen of Edward are like waist up.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: And he's so what if looks like a cartoon character.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: He does, he's really ugly in these photos.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: Photos quote unquote photos.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: So what if King Henry VIII was like, I want all good looking pictures of him abolished, and you can't show him below the waist with his massive cod piece?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: What if that was Henry?
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: I want you to make a thesis on this.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: I will, I will.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: I I think that was it was I think it was a jealousy thing because why would he he be so well known throughout court and have all these great positions and be against specifically like known for his dress and the way he presents himself?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: King Henry the VIII that's not wrong.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: I also know though that King Henry VIII very obviously was obsessed over having an heir.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: An heir and a spare.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Good point, good point.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: And at this time, so Henry VIII is with Catherine of Aragon, and they only have Mary the Mary Tudor Mary the First who becomes Mary the First.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so one girl, no boys, he has his bastard son, Henry Fritzroy, Fitzroy.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody cares.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't really do him much good.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: And Edward Stafford has a son who was born in 1501.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: So he was about 20 something years old.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: At this point.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thriving.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Very much thriving.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: And fun fact.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about the connections.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: How we were saying, you know, uh uh, we kind of put the pieces together.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: Get this.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: Edward Stafford's son married Ursula Pohl, who's the daughter of Margaret Pohl, the Countess of Salisbury.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: See season one.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: We did a whole on Margaret Pohl, and we had Salisbury Steak, which Elizabeth very much enjoyed.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: From I think it was our first post on Instagram where like frozen food house.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: Salisbury steak.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um not to get down the rabbit hole too much, but Ursula and Edward Stafford's son ended up having like 10 or 12 kids or something, and one of them was also executed.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it kind of There's tons of executions.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of runs in the family.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or Edward, his dad was executed, and his grandson that he would never have maybe met.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: But still, a lot of like, and that was the thing too.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people said that his house was like a cursed house.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: Or people just didn't like him.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: One person who didn't like them was Woolsey, Cardinal Woolsey.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: He had it out for Edward Stafford.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was said that Edward kind of made fun of Woolsey being of lower class and had to make his way up to the Wasn't he like a butcher's son, Woolsey?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: And he was the right-hand man to King Henry VIII.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: He did way more.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, there's so there are historians whose their only focus is just about Cardinal Woolsey.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because he's such an interesting figure.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: He Especially in the early years of King Henry VIII.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: He absolutely had his his ear for everything.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: And some would even make comments of like, oh, who's ruling the country?
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like it Henry's at each.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it Woolsey here?
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so many people butted heads with him.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, not even just in this decade, but think about Anne Boleyn and think about Catherine Avery.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like everybody at one point, I felt like was up against Woolsey because he was the one convincing Henry, manipulating him.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: And at what point was it Henry's decision?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: At what point was it Woolsey's?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: So if you got on this guy's bad side, you're that means you're basically gonna be on the king's bad side.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so you don't want to mess with this guy.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, the Duke of Buckingham, Eddie, Ed.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Eddie, Edward.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't get that memo.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he was kind of bad mouthing him around court.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: There was rumors going around where he was making fun of him because yeah, he was he was the butcher's son, and like, oh, who's this guy coming in and acting all tough and important?
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm from I'm from royalty.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: I have a lineage.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: I am a descendant of Edward III.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: And this is when it gets dicey.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so there were a few things that were happening at this time.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, King Henry VIII personally examined witnesses against Edward, and he gathered enough evidence for a trial.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: And he had a few key witnesses, um, but one we really wanted to mention was Nicholas Hopkins.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: So Nip Nicholas Hopkins was in court at this time, and he apparently was a person that prophesized that Buckingham would in fact become the next king.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: He was a monk, right?
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: He was a monk.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: He was a monk who kept prophecies.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so he was a monk, and he he basically said, Hey, like, King Henry VIII isn't gonna be here forever.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: And who's the next person of royal lineage?
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because King Henry VIII doesn't have a son yet.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: Who who is descended from Edward III here?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, obviously, it's Buckingham.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: So Buckingham, Edward, he kind of got this whole theory of like, oh, okay, like again, whether or not he pursued it, it's all speculation.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: But Buckingham had this at least idea of himself that, like, oh, I'm still of royal blood, like, I'm still of royal lineage.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: I've got an heir.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, and I also have an heir.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: So what if something does happen to the king?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: Is that so bad that it might pass to me?
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you look in all this War of Roses craziness, like maybe my lineage is the one to emerge as king.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it was it was the the main things that his servants had said about him through all this examination by King Henry the Eighth, was his servants said, Hey, like, yeah, he is talking about the prophecy of his him being king.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: And they he has talked about what it would be like under his reign.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: So immediately paranoid Henry VIII is like, okay, no.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's treason.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: If you're high treason.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you're imagining my death.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: What uh what the heck happened to Nicholas Hopkins?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great question.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: The guy saying this.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't even follow up with poor Nicholas Hopkins.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: I forgot about him.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know where he was.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we should Google him.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let me Google it.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'll keep going while Megan Megan mentions.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um really quick.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: So April 1521.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Edward is summoned to court.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: So finally he's put in the tower.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: We have all these witnesses.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: But can I interrupt you again?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead, go ahead.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, you're you're forgetting an important part.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: He was at Thornbury Castle.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: What do you mean?
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I when I did the history tour at Thornbury Castle.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: He was held there?
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, so he was staying at Thornbury Castle when he got the memo.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, come to London.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: Reef on my wine if you hear that really quickly.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to come to court.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: And he kind of got excited, like, oh, I wanted in court again.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because he thought he was gonna go hang out with the king and go see his buddies over at the palace.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: So he got a summons and he was yeah, and he thought it was a good thing.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because remember, he's not quite in the inner circle, so he doesn't know what's going on.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he had no idea.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: He was completely blindsided.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: I could say um driving on the freeway in a car from Thornberry together.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what he did?
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I took this path the opposite direction because on May 19th, I went straight from Tower of London to Thornberry Castle.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: We did stop at a McDonald's.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: What did you have?
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: I had a chicken sandwich and Jake had a Big Mac.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have drinks, fries?
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we're getting off the No, but I want to know.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we had the combos.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: Tasted like any other.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: As Megan buries her face in her dry January cloak.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: Cloak.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm getting distracted.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: I took I went from Tyre of London to Thornbury.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was about three hours in a car.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: So if he's going from Thornberry to London on horseback.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and carriages and horseback.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was on April 8th that he got summoned and he left.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was on April 16th that he was tried.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: That he was arrested.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: And he was arrested on his journey.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: They kind of like met him in the middle.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: But what did he have for McDonald's?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: Stop the McDonald's.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: Are you hungry?
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: First, you were talking about Burger King.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: I was talking about the Burger King marketing and how good it is.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um continue.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: So he gets totally blindsided.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: They arrest him, he's shocked.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: He had no idea.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, wait, I thought I was gonna come for some fun.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, Edward Stafford, you are by here by arrested.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: They take him straight to the Tower of London.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sorry for the interruption.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's good.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: You can apologize for your interruption within my interruption of your interruption.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: McDonald's, I think that's a good one.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's an interruption vortex.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: So let's get back on track.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: So he's at the Tower of London.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: Finally, we're at the Tower of London.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: And Edward is tried with a panel of 17 peers.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: And he was officially accused of listening to prophecies of the king's death and intending to kill the king himself.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_02: So this is officially high treason.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: And those of you who are executionados and have been with us for a long time know that the penalty for high treason is actually hang, drawn, and quartering, which is a traitor's death.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_02: But because he is noble, blah blah blah, they excuse all of that and it is just reduced to a mere beheading.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: So finally, the day is May 17th, 1521.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: And he is taken to the scaffold on Tower Hill.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: And he is said to have had a few last words, which were essentially just excusing the king and saying that prophecies should not be listened to and things of that nature.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, nothing that is very out of the ordinary.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: He did ask for the executioner to like make it clean.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, make it a clean cut.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: Which is interesting because everything that we read is like kind of non-explicit.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like, yep, he was beheaded on Tower Hill.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_02: There was only one account of an Italian traveler, which is funny because we just talked about Casanova being an Italian adventurer and traveler.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the according to this Italian traveler, maybe Italians are just really like you know, over-exaggerated.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know because I've only He's the only one I've only dated Italians, I don't know.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: But he was the one that said, no, it was three blows of the axe, and it wasn't pretty.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: But according to other accounts who are not this exaggerating Italian, it was just one swift blow of the axe.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: I like thinking it was three blows.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's because you're part Italian.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: How much Italian do you have in your Italian?
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: I have no Italian in me.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: I have one percent Italian.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I have no Italian.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm more of an exaggerator than you.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: He also said that like one third of the crowd was was crying, himself included.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: The Italian said that.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: The Italian said that.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: He also said that there was five hundred infantrymen who I find that hard to believe.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: So take it for what it is.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: He said there was 500, basically, like 500 soldiers who just escorted him over to Tower Hill and got him up on the scaffold.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then they also escorted his body to the grave.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they they put his body in a coffin.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was escorted by six friars and the 500 other men.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: But it is true though, at Tower Hill, there would have been huge crowds because that would have been a public execution.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you've read the book on I did.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: You literally read the book.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: I just finished reading a book.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: So um, if you were a very high nobility, i.e.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: Anne Boleyn, there was only 10 people altogether who were executed inside the Tower of London itself.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone else.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, every a private, exactly.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone else who was of higher nobility, but not that high, they were brought over to Tower Hill across the street, quite literally nowadays, across the street.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, and that there would that would have been the thing.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone would have come to lay eyes on the Duke of Buckingham and watch him get his head smitten off.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: At least he wasn't drawn and quartered.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank goodness.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: Not like our glass dude.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's a lot of horsepower.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: Francois Rob Robert.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I mean, and he went out with dignity, they said.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like it's almost like he accepted.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: He knew, okay, my father went through this.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: This is kind of like eh.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: This was the the the hand of cards that I was dealt.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: He accepted it.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I always think of like Elizabeth I and how much her mother, Anne Boleyn's execution, weighed on her.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_02: And throughout her whole life, she probably at s like some points was just anticipating death.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like anytime she was in the Tower of London.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: Anytime there was a scandal at court, anytime, yeah, like like she was in the tower of London.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's like anytime anything happened, she was like, Okay, this is how my mother went, this is how I go.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when you're a child of someone who's executed like that, especially when you're so young, you just assume you're like, this is fate.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is how life is.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: And eventually, no matter whether it's true or false or you know, small or large, I'm gonna be executed in the same case.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of scary.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like no matter who you are, that hangs over your head.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, for sure.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and not to like go off track again, but I find it really, really ironic that Elizabeth I was released from the Tower of London on May 19th, the anniversary of her mother's execution.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, come on, Mary I, her sister who put her there and did that to her.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's poetic and very poetic.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's weird.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um But yeah, as far as Edward Stafford's guiltiness or innocence or who knows what, um, I mean, at least he had a trial and he did try to defend himself.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: He spoke for over an hour defending himself, right?
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: But they didn't even allow him cross-examine the witnesses of his own household who was saying, like, oh yeah, he said this, this, and he he he thought, you know, he's talking about the king dying and him being on the throne next.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: And Henry was scared.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: Henry knew it was possible that that could have been the outcome.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: And again, this is an era where when you're getting witness statements, you're probably torturing them for it.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: You're probably threatening them for these statements.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: So who and and again, King Henry VIII was the one who personally examined the witnesses.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_02: So who knows what King Henry VIII said to these witnesses?
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_02: Of like, hey, do you want to see your family like not, you know, have their house burned to the ground?
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you do you want to avoid the rack?
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to avoid being killed to death?
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: That wasn't typical, right?
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: Henry VIII didn't normally participate that closely in a trial.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was very unusual for him to do that.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: And he was young.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he was very young in his reign.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe that was him just again personally trying to make a statement of like I'm a fierce king and don't mess with me.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe that was him just being scared and saying, Well, again, you're a better dresser than me, and I don't want to be jealous of you and your plantagenate blood.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe I'm just gonna off you as best as I can.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: What year was this?
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: Was it 1521 or 1522?
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, when he cross-examined everyone, it was 1520.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, 1520?
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_02: I have I have all different dates in here.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's fine.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: He was executed in 1521.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so in 1520, that meant Henry VIII was only 29 years old.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_02: Talk about making a statement and flaunting your cod piece everywhere.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, don't do that with your hands.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, do a big hand gesture of flaunting your cod piece everywhere.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um but but in in in in sadder news, um, by 1523, two years after the execution, uh Edward's children were disinherited.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_02: So so poor, you know, Woodville, his wife, now had to be the mother of all these disinherited children and have no means.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: No lands, no lands, no money, no titles.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: Ursula Pole.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: Ursula Pole.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: So she so so his wife had to remarry and kind of try to figure out her life after after his death.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_02: But it was it was an awful scene for his family.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like they could never really quite recuperate the family line, I'd say.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that was the intention.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't want them to resurface again as another powerful family.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: He wanted to do away with them.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_02: He knew they were a threat, and so, you know, and we've always talked about threatening families, right?
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like throughout the Boleyns and the Seymour's, and you know, every everyone has kind of their own like claws in the game, but someone who is of true Plantagenet blood that has a direct line to the throne is the one like they're the ones you have to worry about.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: And they're the ones you have to say, hey, how can I eliminate them?
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_02: And sure, I'm just gonna blame it on him listening to prophecies of my death.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so unfortunately throughout history, he's gone down as someone who's kind of either assisted in the plot against the king or tried to, you know, uh run a coup against the king.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: And in the tutors, they take him, like, you know, in the tutors, the series on Showtime, they take him to a very serious place where he's there to establish alliances and overthrow the crown.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_02: But again, who knows if that if any of that's true?
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's all speculation.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_02: Those are all just historical fantasies.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like it well, all all that we know is he is of plantagenate blood, he did all the right things for the crown, and then one day he was just essentially the enemy of the crown.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: And because Woolsey didn't like him.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because he insulted him and he got in Henry's ear and was like, yeah, get rid of this guy.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I will I will say, in my most professional manner ever, and out of all my education expertise, yes.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: What I found was the most historically accurate rendition of Edward Stafford the third Duke of Buckingham was in Starz's The Spanish Princess, where he um had no eye.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_02: He he he had a Megan's fucking with all of us.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: He had a jousting accident at one point and pulled his eyeball out on his own.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's healthy.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um so he was like wearing an eye patch.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this was cute.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: Not okay, if if you are watching this Spanish princess.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: He says on what what channel stars.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: Stars.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I just finished it, which put me in the mood to do this episode.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um fast forward pause because I'm gonna give some spoiler alerts just about pause.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: We've already spoiled everything.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: Edward dies.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_02: So good job, Megan.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: We already spoke to it.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: But the part the but the but the part with the Spanish princess got it so bad.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: They they uh um Edward had his trial and is found guilty, but he's like still not convinced he's gonna die.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he's up on the scaffold with the executioner, waiting, just thinking, like, oh, I'm gonna get pardoned.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then they pull like another the other Boleyn girl on us, and then and then we find, oh, he is gonna be executed.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so he moves his eye patch to the other eye instead of getting blindfolded so he can't see out of his missing eye.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then can't even and then he doesn't even put his head on the on the block, he just looks left.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like they did the Anne Boleyn thing where they like dropped a rock in one direction, so he looks blindedly at one direction, and while he's looking, they like slice off his head.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: And his head just flies across the scaffold.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's realistic.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, so I I watched it and I just I was by myself.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: I've never seen this before.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: I just started cracking up, and I yeah, it's Did you like the Spanish princess otherwise, or it was just so wildly awful?
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, historically inaccurate.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we don't like anything that's and then they end each episode with these historical situations have changed and been modified.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they have the whole like disclaimer at the end.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: They do.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like this isn't real.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: Based on history, but not.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: Some of these stories have been modified.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: I forgot the actual like statement that they put, but they're we should put that at the end of ours.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: Just a disclaimer.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: We do as best we can.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_02: One thing I will say too, like talking about how his uh execution was seen in retrospect, but Sir Thomas More, who we all know and love.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my buddy! See, what was that season two that we covered him?
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_02: He's my relative.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: So obviously Megan Moore comes from Sir Thomas More.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so he actually complained that there was like not enough evidence for this case, and he said everything that was gathered was all hearsay from the servants who were most likely tortured/slash threatened.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_02: So even Sir Thomas Moore, who himself goes on to be executed, was kind of waving his hand up in the air, like, hey, I don't think any of this is true.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, Henry, should we look at this case again?
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: Also, the guy who tortured Protestants himself for false confessions.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_01: He was deeply devout.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: I also can't find anything about Nicholas Hopkins.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_02: Nicholas Flamel.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_02: The only thing Can you look up Nicholas Flamel and see what it's like?
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: Nicholas Flamel.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um The only thing that comes out is literally, don't you two read?
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I do read because he's in um Shakespeare's Richard or sorry, Shakespeare's Henry VIII.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: They talk about Buckingham's in it, and he mentions Nicholas Hopkins.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_01: Nicholas Flamell.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: Nicholas Hopkins.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know what what happened to him.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: Sorcerer's stone.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_01: Probably he didn't die.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: I can't find any true.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_02: People who live forever have been.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he was and he gave prophecies of Nicholas Hopkins is Nicholas Flamel.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_02: He just rebrands every like a hundred years.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's smart.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, let's do that.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_01: We need to end this episode.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is the same thing.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're I think we're on a good tangent about immortality, no?
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: Elizabeth, any final words?
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_02: Find me in the restricted section.