Latest / Sarah Knows Support Workers / NDIS Career Pathways: How to Go from Support Worker to Leadership in Australia's Disability Sector | Joel Scott

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NDIS Career Pathways: How to Go from Support Worker to Leadership in Australia's Disability Sector | Joel Scott · Sarah Knows Support Workers

• 0:00
  I've got Joel Scott and I was dying to get you one, to be
• 0:03
  honest, the podcast because you have had one stellar career and
• 0:06
  I really want to talk about it to our audience, which are
• 0:09
  support workers out there about what you do and how you got
• 0:12
  there. So you ready to get Kraken?
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  So you and I. Have sure and thanks Sarah
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  thanks for having me really appreciate it our careers in
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  the. Disability sector at a very
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  young age, so if you had to look back, what made you want to work
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  in this sector? So I thought it was going to be
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  all sunshine and rainbows, you know, go to work, cute people,
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  take them out, have a lot of fun, and it'd be all amazing
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  every day. I was quickly brought down to
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  earth, but in that I really loved it.
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  So I think just being able to support people with their
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  everyday lives and what they wanted to do.
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  And I always. But the main thing for me was if
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  I can help somebody to smile today, I've done my job for me,
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  yeah. Did you actually have an
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  interview? Because I went in from work
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  placement and got a job with no interview.
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  So did I have an interview? I no, I didn't.
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  So at my school people came in offering apprenticeships and
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  then somebody came and went. Does anybody want to work in
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  disability as well? And so the plumbers came, the
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  electricians came, and then there was disability and I went,
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  I'll do it, I want to do that. And I started about 3 days
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  later. So no interview, just jumping in
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  and we yeah, that's how it worked.
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  Like how did you get a job like if you didn't?
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  Yeah, yeah. So basically there was people
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  there talking about all these different kind of jobs and there
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  was a lady that was teaching certificate one, certificate 3-4
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  in disability at the time. And so she asked like, we've got
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  all these different jobs. So where I started with was
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  called Colac Ace. So they did employment services,
• 1:54
  they ran a cafe. So I worked in the cafe for a
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  while as well and supported people, had a wait on tables,
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  make coffees, serve customers. Then there was a day program, so
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  doing your traditional day program kind of activities and
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  things as well. But we got to do some really
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  cool things from that. We used to take people on some
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  pretty cool holidays as well. And then there was also a print,
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  what was it called? Designer copy, I think it was
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  called. So it was like a printing
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  company. So yeah, we supported people how
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  to. Yeah.
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  So we supported people how to. Yeah, print like things had come
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  in. So somebody wanted their logo
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  redone or business cards or things like that.
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  So we did a lot of that kind of work and signs and posters for
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  people. So that was a really cool one as
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  well and something really different.
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  And we got a lot of people are really skilled in different
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  areas doing it and wanting to do it, which is awesome fun.
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  So as you're working as a support worker, you've actually
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  gone through, like you've started from support work and
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  now you are a COO. What part of the job still
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  matters most to you today, from being a support worker to where
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  you are now? Yeah.
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  So like, yeah, I worked in support employment day programs,
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  and then I worked at an institution and then for people
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  to transition into houses and then work my way out in
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  different ways. The most important thing is
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  still the same, that people feel safe and supported, that they
• 3:27
  still get their say, they still get what they need and what they
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  want, and still a smile on people's faces, good
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  communication. That's what means everything.
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  So even in this job, like I think a title is whatever, it's
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  more what you do with it and you remember why you started this
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  work and what's important to you.
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  That's the yeah, most important do.
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  You know The funny thing that you mentioned right over the
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  period of time as you grow your career in the sector, I can't
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  remember my titles. Like I don't, I don't recall
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  them. I just knew the job that I had
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  to do and what was required. I could never like name them
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  because when people would ask what was that?
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  And I was like, oh, I don't know, but I know I had to do
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  this and that's what I kept doing.
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  I think it's get stuck in a title.
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  You at times can narrow what you could actually achieve for
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  somebody because you're stuck in there like you, because as
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  support workers and as you go in, you can actually expand
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  somebody'd world. But that doesn't mean that
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  you're deemed by being narrowed into one box.
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  That's it. That's so true.
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  And so many jobs I've had, yeah, I couldn't remember the titles
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  at all. My LinkedIn probably does
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  because I put them their part. I don't.
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  And when I've worked at places too, there's probably a lot of
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  titles that don't sit there because people change your title
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  or change your job description or something like that.
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  But still the core of what you do is still the same that that
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  never changes. And like you still doing what
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  you love to do. Otherwise you're not doing it,
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  but it's still supporting people and being a support worker was
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  still my favourite of all jobs. So with all the people that you
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  have, all the company was you worked at a couple of different
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  companies in your period of time, what does good leadership
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  in the NDIS sector mean to you? I think good leadership's
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  everything, and I've had a lot and I think every leader that
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  I've had has had some quality that I've probably adapted to my
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  leadership style because I really resonated with it or
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  taught me a lot. There's other things is that,
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  you know, probably aren't that I didn't say is that like really
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  strong for me, But I think everybody learns from a
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  different leader and everybody needs a different leader in all
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  different spaces. And I think like the most
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  important is communication, integrity and honesty there.
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  That's what it is, but it's also like putting the person 1st and
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  then understanding when you're a leader, remembering what it was
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  to be a support worker and to do all those kind of jobs.
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  Like it's a hard job. It's not easy.
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  Everything is difficult in all different roles.
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  But really taking a step back and understanding, like what
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  does this person need from me? How do I deliver it?
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  And do I need to roll this out in a different way than what
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  I've done five other times before?
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  And what's going to assist this person the most?
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  Mentioned something in people that were living in an
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  institution into community for a lot of people that have joined
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  in as business owners, as support workers, they have
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  missed that period of time and that gap of history when we're
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  talking about it and when we talk about that period of time
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  in particular, did you see like because of This is why I'm going
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  to make like a step in the dark here, the outcomes of people
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  moving from institution into supported housing.
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  What was one of the biggest takes that you got?
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  Oh, sorry, I see one to this you had.
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  Yeah, it's a big one because I mean there was a group of people
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  that I supported into one house that I worked with for a couple
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  of years in the institution. There was 6 participants that
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  lived in just one wing of a unit over 30 that lived there and
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  then they moved out. We did a matching process with
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  other units as well to move people in together because it
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  was a lot. But they had one staff to six
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  people. They're moving into a house
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  became two staff to six people, which was huge.
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  That was a massive, massive change.
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  Even though in today's world that is not.
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  And people like I remember taking a gentleman out and he
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  could use his money to decorate his room and parts of his house
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  and choose different things. And then we got chooks and
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  people would go out and get the eggs.
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  And then for the first time in a lot of people's lives, they were
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  part of cooking because at the institution, a truck would come
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  and deliver all the food. So this was very overwhelming
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  for months for people smelling food being cooked and not
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  realizing I can't eat it straight away.
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  What is this? How does this work?
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  So there's such a, a big, big, big difference from what things
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  used to be. And that's just with state
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  government funding as well, as opposed to now with NDIS
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  funding, which I know people struggle with and it is
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  difficult at times, but it's a million times better than what
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  the funding was and still so much more individual as to what
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  it was. You've got you've got me at my
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  heartstrings. Yeah, because they're getting
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  more than ever before. And I know, yeah, the media, the
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  way that it's betrayed at the moment about cutting.
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  Oh I get the angst around it, but I feel like as dinosaurs and
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  as. This.
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  People that have seen what support looks like on bare
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  minimum to what it looks like now.
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  It's wild. But also, I love the fact that
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  you were talking about that when people were entering into their
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  houses, they got the opportunity to, you know, decorate their
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  room and decorate elements of their house to make it suits
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  their own personality. And do you find that message at
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  this period of time can be a little bit lost because the seal
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  space has exploded itself? So big, to be honest.
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  Like it's gotten really big. Back then when you were moving
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  out of institution into homes, it was normally state-run.
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  And if there wasn't state-run, it was some really small
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  providers. Yeah, it's very much lost.
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  I would say now of like how this works because I would say the
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  big difference now is people are.
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  I find that people are often trying to climb over each other
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  to get business instead of putting the person 1st and
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  that's what I struggle with the most.
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  It's still such an important thing is like people could be
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  coming from home or they could be coming from a group like an
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  old traditional home still with a fair few people in that or at
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  a hospital after they've had an accident or some sort of life
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  crisis that's happened to them. Like the little things are still
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  the really important things, like making sure somebody feels
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  comfortable going into an environment that's personalized
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  for them. Like finding out what your
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  favorite colour is and a few things about what you like to
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  try and these things like that. And having some familiar things
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  around can make all the difference in how anxious that
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  person is moving into somewhere that's completely new and
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  completely different. I think stopping anyone that is
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  living together for three or four, whoever you know, the
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  amount of people that actually live together, choosing their
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  own couch because some couches aren't really that comfortable.
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  Exactly. And it like I find that really
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  wild, but some couches aren't that comfortable and if there's
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  only like access to 1 TVI really don't want to sit next to
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  another two people in my space. So like, it's these little, not
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  at all reality stuff that you wouldn't know unless you had a
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  group discussion about it with all residents that live
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  together. Yeah, like current.
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  I mean, back in the day we used to do it all the time, but
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  currently in in my role at the moment, we met with three guys
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  that are wanting to live together and they've been
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  friends for a long time. And two of them have vision
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  impairment. And I learned from that there's
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  certain TV's that you can still see somewhat or have better
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  support for vision. So I said, okay, well the three
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  of you go and choose a TV and tell us which one works.
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  And then they're the TV's that we'll put in their home.
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  And the same with all the furniture.
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  Like if it's easy for you to say certain things or touch and feel
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  and know where it is, go and tell us the things that you want
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  and then come back to us because I don't want to just say here's
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  the things that you have because you choose that.
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  It's your house. So you have worked across Seals,
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  SDA's, complex support. What do you like and groups?
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  I'm going to solve a debate with you right now.
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  You're ready because I have a group background and missile
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  one. In your opinion, which one do
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  you enjoy the most working in around people's homes or in a
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  group setting for group support? This is a really, really hard
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  one because it depend like homes, honestly.
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  So it's a really, it really is. It's a hard one because what
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  I've done is there's been four times in my career that I've
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  left homes and gone and worked somewhere else and I'm drawn
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  back to homes every time, no matter what role it is, I just
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  keep coming back. So I'm going to go with that
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  one. All right, we've because you've
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  drawn back into working in a people supported accommodation.
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  How do you make sure that the people that stay within the like
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  the homes that you create are the center of every decision,
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  even when things get a little bit busy and stressful?
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  Yeah. So I mean, now I'm in SDA so
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  it's a little bit different, but in all the other roles, I mean,
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  people are still the center. So like if if we're not
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  supporting people they the way they want to be supported or
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  doing the things the way they need to be supported and our
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  support workers aren't supported that way, then we have no job
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  and no business. So the most important thing is
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  always the individual is supporting and they're making
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  sure your support workers are great and do a good job and feel
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  supported as well. They're only going to do great
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  if you support them really good. The same with the participants
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  communicating with the families, communicating with the care team
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  and circles of support. If if you drop all those things
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  and you just focus on the business and the critical
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  things, the participants don't see that, the support workers
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  don't see that, so they feel unsane.
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  So I would say you can pick all that stuff up later or you work
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  together as a team. There's always more than one on
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  the team and everybody jumps in with their bid, but that's
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  always the most important all. Right, I've got one for you.
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  All right, every now and again I would hear a, I'm going to call
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  it a cop out. To be honest, I'll call it a cop
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  out for what it is. This individual is unable to
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  make a decision because they have complex communication.
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  Is there a way that you've got around that to make sure that
• 14:30
  every person that you serve was hurt?
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  Absolutely. So I used to go to a person's
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  house and I knew that if he looked at the fire extinguisher
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  he had something important to tell me.
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  And if he looked at a microwave, he wanted a drink.
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  If he looked at the fridge, he wanted something to eat.
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  And he would always find some sort of way to communicate.
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  I think everybody can. Like, I've worked with some
• 14:53
  brilliant people with some really extreme challenges, and I
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  knew that if they got really, really angry at something, it
• 15:00
  was because they probably haven't been listened to.
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  And they've been trying to communicate the same thing for
• 15:06
  ages and no one's listened. Everything was communication.
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  Once had somebody. He asked me about what happens
• 15:13
  if a person that I support has some high behaviors now that
• 15:17
  I've never seen. And I remember having this
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  question going, well, hold on one moment.
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  Like have you deep dived into the Y part?
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  Have we pulled it across together as a team?
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  Because behaviors aren't something that somebody just
• 15:32
  mysteriously think of one day. They don't just like happen like
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  this. There's something has occurred
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  for it to happen. So it's deep diving how it
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  happens. And you know what got me to
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  because all right, as millennials that we are, there
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  are parts of our life, yes, I honestly believe this.
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  There are parts of our life where we have really great high
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  moments, but we also have dips. The difference is that we
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  haven't got, we haven't got support workers on a roster.
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  I haven't got 1020 support workers coming in and out of my
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  life. I haven't got a house
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  supervisor. I haven't got any of those
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  people overseeing a dip. How do you manage when the
• 16:09
  people that we serve go through a dip and then not to just
• 16:14
  automatically think that this housing situation's a quick
• 16:17
  exit? Well, that's what they are,
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  sorry. No, no, no regular check
• 16:22
  insurance. So I was only having this
• 16:26
  conversation a little while ago about like, not about dips, but
• 16:29
  about like seeing if somebody's happy with where they live and
• 16:33
  what supports they've got. So my advice was who's their
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  favorite support worker that they trust or their team leader
• 16:40
  that's in the house or whatever title they have or whoever they
• 16:43
  are and they go and ask the person how you feeling?
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  Are you happy? Are things good?
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  Do you want to move somewhere else?
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  Like do you live here because your family live here or was
• 16:53
  this where you needed to be? Or does Johnny in another room
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  annoy you? Are you happy?
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  Like what's going on, all that kind of thing.
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  And then if there's a dip, the same thing.
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  So don't get a manager who doesn't know that person has
• 17:08
  only spoken to them twice to go and have the personal difficult
• 17:13
  conversation with them. And don't send them a survey
• 17:16
  form for questions like this. Because I know that when I was
• 17:20
  working at big organizations and I got sent a survey, you do not
• 17:24
  put the complicated stuff because you don't want everybody
• 17:27
  to read that. But if some like if a Co worker
• 17:31
  or somebody that you trusted came up to you and asked a
• 17:34
  question like you said a bit down today, how you feeling
• 17:37
  you'd tell them So I guess like it's.
• 17:39
  A 2 minute. Conversation, just think about
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  it really is. Yeah, one that needs such big
• 17:45
  things. It's just a checking in on
• 17:47
  another person and to to match or level where their well-being
• 17:51
  is. Yeah, yeah, that that's all it
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  is. And it's just like it's really
• 17:56
  common sense. Like if somebody doesn't seem
• 17:59
  happy or whatever, it's usually the person that's close to them
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  or knows them well that would pick that up.
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  Because if if I'm not working with that person all the time
• 18:07
  and I walk into the house, I could say, oh, they smiled at
• 18:10
  me, they're very happy, everything's wonderful.
• 18:12
  But maybe they said something that a support worker would go,
• 18:16
  they're pissed, they're not happy.
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  So, you know, you've got to know them, got to know everyone to
• 18:23
  work out whether it's right or not.
• 18:26
  Yeah, to. Get where you're going because
• 18:28
  you've worked your way up into your position let's you know
• 18:31
  we're all we all start somewhere.
• 18:32
  Have you made any career mistakes or oopsies early in
• 18:37
  your career and what did it teach you?
• 18:39
  Lots. Lots.
• 18:45
  We'll do them, still do them. We're human.
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  That's the way it goes. Just a silly decision here and
• 18:51
  there. Or thinking, not asking all the
• 18:54
  right questions or just jumping in too fast.
• 18:57
  I think like everyone makes mistakes and they're always
• 19:00
  going to happen, but learning from it, apologizing really
• 19:05
  early, even if it wasn't you like a person doesn't often
• 19:09
  blame a person, they blame an organization as well.
• 19:12
  Like apologizing no matter who or what or how.
• 19:16
  And then either if you can fix it, great.
• 19:19
  If you can't learn from it for next time and then have an
• 19:23
  outcome so. In your period of time you have
• 19:25
  managed some really big teams and with big teams comes big
• 19:29
  budgets and big responsibilities.
• 19:31
  How do you balance that business part, which is the monetary
• 19:34
  part, with making sure that the care came first, so.
• 19:39
  I mean, you obviously have to work out like what's your base
• 19:42
  level that you can provide people and then how do you go to
• 19:46
  the next part but still remain in your budget?
• 19:49
  Or if you have to go over, what are your reasons and why?
• 19:52
  So in bigger organizations, you could always find a reason to go
• 19:56
  a little bit over for a certain period, but you could always
• 19:58
  work out with their funding when you could go lower.
• 20:01
  So there's always ways to do that, but if you're not putting
• 20:05
  the care 1st and the person first, then it's not going to be
• 20:09
  a very successful business. At the same time, if you
• 20:12
  overspend, you're going to run out of money and then you can't
• 20:15
  provide services anymore. So I think and the balance
• 20:19
  completely, but you really need to understand what your baseline
• 20:22
  is and what that person needs and whether you can support that
• 20:27
  person based on their funding, based on what you provide.
• 20:30
  Because now, I mean, there's a lot of people's plans that and
• 20:35
  people come to us and other providers and we get phone calls
• 20:39
  of a civil provider and they want a house in a certain area
• 20:43
  and they want to support the person.
• 20:44
  Now, I don't need to know what their self funding is, but a lot
• 20:47
  of people tell me and then they also tell me they want to live
• 20:50
  by themselves, which everybody has their own choice.
• 20:53
  And I encourage that. But I worry about the the
• 20:57
  provider doing it because is it a long term thing that they can
• 21:01
  do a house in the middle of like a house with nothing else around
• 21:05
  it to do that support? Or should they be looking at
• 21:09
  something that has a villa that's partly connected to
• 21:12
  somewhere and then you can do that and it still manages the
• 21:18
  care and the business with like not losing what the person
• 21:24
  wants, but it's also not risking your business as well and the
• 21:28
  longevity of that person's support that's.
• 21:30
  A yeah, it's a icky 1, isn't it? Because as a provider, we want
• 21:34
  to make sure that we set people up for success and what success
• 21:38
  looks like to be, I believe, a really good provider is it to be
• 21:43
  open to collaborate with others. You don't need the whole pie.
• 21:46
  Yeah, no, absolutely. And that's, that's exactly it.
• 21:51
  Like I, I, I get people's decisions and where they want to
• 21:55
  be and things. I wouldn't want to share a house
• 21:57
  with a lot of people at a lot of times.
• 21:59
  But then sometimes I would because I love people around and
• 22:03
  doing things. So I would really struggle by
• 22:05
  myself, just saying. But then I know other people
• 22:08
  that love their own, their own space and all that kind of
• 22:10
  thing. But if if you've worked out your
• 22:14
  business and that this is unviable in six months or 12
• 22:18
  months, where does that put that person?
• 22:21
  And it's OK to say we cannot do this, but that's something where
• 22:25
  you need to balance the care and the business, so.
• 22:28
  When you look at like reflecting back with all the experience
• 22:33
  that you've had, what does good quality care actually look like
• 22:37
  to you? And what does it look like to
• 22:40
  you in real life? I mean that the person gives you
• 22:43
  that they're happy with what you provide them, but then you can
• 22:47
  look back and go, it's also the paperwork and the communication
• 22:50
  and compliance. So I would say it's very
• 22:54
  different depending on what. So if it's the individual you're
• 22:58
  supporting, it's their day-to-day supports, are you
• 23:01
  providing it? Well then as an organization,
• 23:04
  it's all your compliance and everything as well.
• 23:06
  So you need to merge that all together and find what works.
• 23:09
  So my mum has a disability. She has support workers that
• 23:14
  come in and do different things. For hers it's about finding
• 23:17
  people that have the same interests and do artwork and
• 23:20
  things with her that she really likes.
• 23:22
  Decoupage or something. I can't even talk.
• 23:25
  I don't know what it is properly.
• 23:27
  But anyway, she loves that stuff, right?
• 23:30
  That's exactly what I do. So to her, good quality support
• 23:34
  is that people are doing all the things that she wants to do.
• 23:38
  But then the organization must make sure that because her
• 23:42
  supports are high intensity, that all the staff are trained
• 23:45
  really well and have all of those skill sets.
• 23:48
  So I would say it's really important to have both levels
• 23:50
  because just one and doing all your paperwork, well, you might
• 23:54
  not be personable. So I think that good goes away,
• 23:57
  but it's still got quality. So you have worked in government
• 24:03
  non for profit in leadership roles.
• 24:06
  What stands out to you the most in?
• 24:09
  So government and not-for-profit, because they
• 24:12
  were bigger You, you definitely had your areas that you looked
• 24:16
  after and you're more streamlined into that.
• 24:18
  You didn't really look at the big puzzle of what everyone did,
• 24:22
  but you always had big teams and Big Lots of support and somebody
• 24:27
  was always there to give advice and help you with something.
• 24:31
  On the flip side, a private organization, so a for profit
• 24:38
  has less people often, but you can pivot faster and it doesn't
• 24:43
  take as long for people to make decisions because you don't have
• 24:46
  such big teams in every area. There's a big differences that
• 24:49
  I've seen because I think both both have really good qualities
• 24:53
  and it's a mix of like I wouldn't say either are better
• 24:56
  than the other or anything. I'll just say different in
• 25:00
  different ways. And it really depends what you
• 25:02
  want. But I would also say that as a
• 25:05
  training ground and starting a bigger was really good because
• 25:10
  I've still got a lot of the same mentors from back then.
• 25:14
  Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's it.
• 25:16
  Because you've got all these different people, you learn all
• 25:18
  these different things. You you have to fit in with
• 25:21
  different personalities and learn how to work with a lot of
• 25:24
  people. It's different all.
• 25:26
  Right. So I'll give you like some
• 25:27
  context. So when I was doing my search, I
• 25:30
  was doing work placement, I had two, I had to do 2 different
• 25:34
  ones. My first one was with Urella and
• 25:37
  I today still use the methods that they had that many moons
• 25:41
  ago when I first started at 19 that is still relevant today.
• 25:45
  And the checks that are still relevant today, if I had not had
• 25:48
  that training with them, I don't I don't know if I would have
• 25:51
  picked up those skills to be able to move around as a support
• 25:54
  worker into other organizations. So like you said, the bigger the
• 25:59
  organization, the more skill sets that you'll be able to
• 26:01
  develop because they are really down pat on how you support
• 26:06
  somebody to a team. Absolutely.
• 26:08
  Well, the amount of that's it like training and all those
• 26:11
  things, the amount of pay cash training we did in DHS of state
• 26:17
  government. And then Jen, you when I was
• 26:19
  there as well, we had like a practice coach and all those
• 26:22
  kind of things. And then you still deliver all
• 26:25
  of those kind of trainings in other organizations and smaller
• 26:29
  ones, but you don't have the budgets or the people and the
• 26:32
  things like that to do the same level.
• 26:34
  But then you have smaller teams to train, which sometimes means
• 26:38
  that the quality is really like is higher as well or sometimes
• 26:43
  it's just as good. So it really depends in each.
• 26:46
  Like it's got so much differences.
• 26:48
  But you're right. Like those training grounds and
• 26:51
  stuff where brilliant when you start.
• 26:53
  Oh, don't knock them. Yeah.
• 26:54
  Yeah, everyone has a debate in that sector of who's the best in
• 26:58
  the West and all that in between.
• 27:00
  But I will say that big providers offer better training
• 27:03
  opportunities for their stuff. I think that's yeah.
• 27:06
  I think it's yeah, obvious, but apart so.
• 27:10
  Act on state government. We used to do, it was like a
• 27:13
  three-week induction when I started, 3 weeks and then you do
• 27:17
  a couple of sheets in the middle of it and see what you thought
• 27:20
  and then you come back for more. It was huge.
• 27:23
  And training like survival ban, like like Quarter Park to make
• 27:28
  sure that if any incident was to occur, I could, you know,
• 27:31
  survive this with the people that I served.
• 27:35
  Like, it was quite terrifying when I think about it.
• 27:37
  But like, you know, I drive differently.
• 27:43
  Good morning. You're a member of Forever.
• 27:46
  But part of your current, so your current role, you are a
• 27:49
  COO, which is a chief operations officer.
• 27:53
  There are support workers out there probably wondering this
• 27:56
  question. What is that and what do you do?
• 27:58
  So basically I oversee an SDA provider so I work on the
• 28:06
  strategy and direction of the company of Life Care Assist.
• 28:10
  But a lot of it is, I mean, I don't give up going to meet
• 28:14
  clients and finding out what they want and how they want it.
• 28:19
  And exactly it is. It is.
• 28:21
  And I'll never give that stuff up no matter what job.
• 28:23
  I still have to have front facing work because otherwise
• 28:26
  you'll lose it, I think. But like I get to do those kind
• 28:30
  of things. I also get to push what's
• 28:33
  important in houses. So I've been doing a lot of work
• 28:37
  and going to meet people that live in different SDA's and or
• 28:41
  want to live in different SDA's and finding out what's important
• 28:44
  for you, what's important to where you live.
• 28:46
  Finding out that bills are always hard.
• 28:49
  So we've got solar panels coming on every house.
• 28:52
  We've got air purifiers in the house, so people get less sick
• 28:57
  from different things. But I guess what I do is a bit
• 29:01
  of everything, jump into marketing.
• 29:03
  I don't touch finance, I can't do numbers.
• 29:05
  So if you're looking for that, look for somebody else.
• 29:08
  I've always got a finance team wherever I work because I can't
• 29:10
  do numbers. I wasn't made from either.
• 29:13
  I understand I'm a human person, not a spreadsheet person.
• 29:16
  Yeah, yeah, me too. When things go wrong in a
• 29:19
  service, how do you approach and how do you support people to fix
• 29:23
  the problem? Understand what it is.
• 29:25
  So understand what went wrong and why it went wrong.
• 29:28
  What can we do? Have a conversation like it
• 29:31
  really depends what it was and how it was to every situation.
• 29:35
  But realistically just having a conversation and understanding
• 29:38
  what went wrong and why and could we have fixed it?
• 29:43
  Or can we do something different so it doesn't happen again?
• 29:45
  And there's always those things that are one in a million that,
• 29:49
  you know, that'll never, ever happen.
• 29:51
  And then it does, it does, it does.
• 29:54
  And then the sky falls and Henny Penny and all those things.
• 29:58
  But you like, like I would say, just talk about it and work out
• 30:02
  like how to fix it and how to work through it and things
• 30:06
  happen. Actually wild.
• 30:07
  It's actually not wild, it's actually fact.
• 30:09
  If you ask the person that lives in the house how we can fix it,
• 30:13
  they pretty much already know how to solve the problem.
• 30:15
  Absolutely, absolutely. That's exactly right.
• 30:20
  Yeah, a lot of times the amount. Of times of, you know, like I
• 30:23
  recall, like a lot of times something would go wrong and
• 30:29
  you'd have to give it advice to I had to give advice to the
• 30:33
  support worker. My first one is have you asked
• 30:36
  them? And they hadn't asked them.
• 30:39
  They had to go back, ask them and then we can either, we can
• 30:42
  work together and problem solve this and problem shoot whatever
• 30:45
  it is. But generally once they went
• 30:46
  back to the person we serve, they were able to solve that
• 30:49
  problem then and there. Like it wasn't that I don't
• 30:51
  know, like I sometimes I think it's because this is exception
• 30:55
  of we support workers in particular.
• 30:57
  I'm a bit off topic, but we support workers that work at
• 30:59
  different organizations and then when they work at an
• 31:02
  organization that put people first, that can be a bit
• 31:05
  daunting. Absolutely, you're completely
• 31:07
  right. And you know, it's the same when
• 31:09
  you do after hours, like you're on call and support workers call
• 31:12
  you and things like that and ask what do I do?
• 31:15
  And my first question to them is what would you normally do or
• 31:19
  what do you think you should do? Because like at a big
• 31:22
  organization, I don't know majority of the houses that
• 31:26
  people are calling from, you've got like, you can look up the
• 31:29
  information, but that support worker knows what to do best.
• 31:32
  They know the person. And then or ask.
• 31:35
  Ask Johnny who you're working with.
• 31:37
  Ask him what he wants. Sort it.
• 31:39
  Yeah. So you've touched a topic that I
• 31:42
  know well, ready for this one. You've done on call for a period
• 31:45
  of time and so have I. What is the silliest on call
• 31:50
  question you've ever received? There's no bread in the Fraser.
• 31:53
  What do I do? You ready for this one?
• 32:02
  I got They're in their bedroom. What do I do?
• 32:08
  You know, like you're like, leave them alone.
• 32:13
  Give me some space, that'd be good.
• 32:15
  Yep. So yeah, when when you've got
• 32:18
  people that receive the training on what good support looks like
• 32:22
  at different organizations, sometimes for support workers,
• 32:25
  it can be really overwhelming to figure out where you fit in the
• 32:29
  next organization. I get that.
• 32:31
  Absolutely can. And different managers and
• 32:33
  leaders and organizations have different ways of asking or
• 32:37
  expecting or like different things.
• 32:41
  Like I used to say to people, there's no such thing as a silly
• 32:44
  question because people think even the big questions that are
• 32:48
  really, really serious are a silly one because they're
• 32:51
  probably like hasn't been received all that while before.
• 32:54
  So it's a really important thing because no matter what we think,
• 32:59
  it's probably really, really relevant and somebody else is
• 33:01
  probably thinking the same thing.
• 33:04
  What I've always thought is that I've always loved the little
• 33:08
  questions or the little pickups because if I can pick it up, why
• 33:13
  it's little and insignificant. It never had an opportunity to
• 33:16
  get any bigger. So I don't know.
• 33:20
  You sat on that one. But I Yeah, you know what?
• 33:23
  Complain to me about? There's not enough bread in the
• 33:25
  freezer. What's going wrong here?
• 33:27
  Why did we have to bring the freezer to begin with?
• 33:29
  What did we miss? What process?
• 33:31
  That's me. Yeah, and it was really simple.
• 33:33
  I'm like, can can you take some people out for a drive and go
• 33:37
  and grab some? Yeah, off you go.
• 33:40
  But there's no money in the house.
• 33:41
  Well, that's OK. Just if you buy it, we'll send.
• 33:46
  We'll make sure there's some money at the house for you
• 33:48
  tomorrow. Tom called it.
• 33:51
  You this one. I am once had that question and
• 33:57
  I was like but they live next to a supermarket can't they just
• 34:00
  walk over together and get it? I'm not joking.
• 34:06
  I'm that's like legit. No.
• 34:09
  I was like, all right, yeah. So.
• 34:11
  See. That's it sometimes.
• 34:12
  It's making sure like, you know, having those conversations with
• 34:15
  our support workers, it's OK to make these type of critical
• 34:18
  decisions because we need to make it at the end of the day
• 34:21
  because we all want to eat. So if we all want to wait.
• 34:24
  Absolutely. All our stuff to it, because I'm
• 34:26
  not going to. Take you off for something.
• 34:28
  Like buying and. I mean, after that it's teaching
• 34:31
  people do problem solve. It's OK, you can just.
• 34:35
  Walk into trouble for that, like I think you should.
• 34:38
  Yeah. You know what?
• 34:39
  There was a process missing somewhere along the line.
• 34:42
  You've picked it up, you've solved it.
• 34:43
  Let's make sure that doesn't happen next week.
• 34:45
  What strategies can we put in place?
• 34:47
  So what motivates you to remain in this sector and keep going
• 34:51
  after the time that you've spent?
• 34:53
  Because you know, it can at times how roles in this sector
• 34:57
  can be quite overwhelming. And it's because it's so people
• 35:00
  focus and driven. It can.
• 35:03
  It's kind of like you can suffer from a bit of empathy fatigue.
• 35:06
  Yeah. So I mean, look, I think it, it
• 35:10
  is a, it's probably a difficult sector, but I've never ever done
• 35:14
  anything else. So I don't know whether it like
• 35:17
  this is harder than anything else or easier than anything
• 35:20
  else, to be honest, because I can't really compare them.
• 35:24
  But I, I still love it as much as I did when I started.
• 35:29
  So, and we all have those times where it's a little bit hard and
• 35:33
  whatever, but I think having those people that you can call
• 35:36
  and go, I've just had a shit day.
• 35:39
  I just need to talk about it and like this stuffs happened or
• 35:43
  whatever. But honestly, laughing is the
• 35:45
  best medicine. So have a laugh with somebody
• 35:48
  and you feel a bit better too. But like the motivation is that
• 35:52
  I can say now in like working in the job that I'm in, we're
• 35:57
  pushing boundaries with things. So like doing that, pushing
• 36:02
  boundaries, making things different and innovative and
• 36:05
  stuff like that, that's what motivates me.
• 36:08
  So it's not the same, it's always different.
• 36:11
  And I think at the period that I started in this being a
• 36:14
  dinosaur, like bloody T Rex, like it was old school then and
• 36:17
  then you just kept moving forward.
• 36:19
  And every few years it's moved forward from there, which that's
• 36:23
  what I really like and the change all the time, but good
• 36:27
  direction of change. How did you find your tribe?
• 36:31
  People that you can talk to about having a bad day.
• 36:33
  Look, it's can be hit and miss because I think you need to find
• 36:39
  absolutely your tribe, like the people that share the same vibe
• 36:42
  as you and do all the things. But I think for me, they have to
• 36:47
  they're they're fun and happy people.
• 36:51
  So I go off other people's vibes and how they're feeling.
• 36:56
  So they have to be happy. They've got to be grounded and
• 37:00
  yeah, a little bit nutty kind of helps me.
• 37:04
  All of those things, pretty much.
• 37:05
  Like it's just got to be, yeah, yeah, that's it, That's it.
• 37:10
  And then a good circle outside of work too.
• 37:12
  Always what you need to escape to make sure that you're doing
• 37:16
  fun things and doing stuff. Yeah.
• 37:18
  How do you recharge yourself? What do you do?
• 37:21
  Anything outside of this sector that I wouldn't expect that you
• 37:25
  do just to, you know, get yourself back on track that
• 37:28
  helps you switch off and recharge.
• 37:30
  Absolutely. So I've got a really good friend
• 37:32
  group that I catch up with often and do different things.
• 37:35
  On the weekend. We're actually doing the Gay
• 37:38
  Amazing Race. So it's like The Amazing Race
• 37:41
  that you watch on TV, but it's a car group for gay guys and we
• 37:46
  are basically driving all around Melbourne and doing The Amazing
• 37:49
  Race. You win.
• 37:51
  Be awesome. What's pardon?
• 37:53
  If you like if you cross the line first, no.
• 37:56
  I didn't even look at that. I just looked at this looks like
• 38:00
  let's do this look. I hope something good but like
• 38:04
  I'm just excited for the day. Fail at that.
• 38:07
  My sense of direction is shocking.
• 38:09
  Online to a partner, he will drive and our other couple of
• 38:14
  friends will go with us. I'll just be the other person
• 38:17
  that has no idea what we're doing half the day.
• 38:19
  But it'll be good fun I think. A little laughs if.
• 38:22
  You could give any like if you could give one piece of advice
• 38:26
  to anybody that is a new leader in the disability sector, what
• 38:30
  would it be? Be a support worker first I.
• 38:32
  Like that. Sorry.
• 38:34
  Yeah, please do. Yes.
• 38:38
  I don't think then understand the challenges that come with
• 38:43
  being a support worker, the good and the hard and the emotional
• 38:49
  stuff and all the other things that come with it until you've
• 38:53
  actually done it, yeah. Yeah, because it does give you a
• 38:57
  range of working with different people.
• 38:59
  I was talking to somebody recently about this.
• 39:02
  If I wasn't a support worker, I probably wouldn't be able to
• 39:06
  read body language as well as I do now and pick up on queues.
• 39:09
  And it's being able to be a support worker working with
• 39:13
  people with complex communication.
• 39:15
  It's because of those experience that I've got that I've been
• 39:17
  able to bring it out of that world and into everyday life.
• 39:22
  Absolutely 1000% agree with that.
• 39:25
  And like when you asked before about the complex communication
• 39:28
  and people not being able to communicate, when you're a
• 39:31
  support worker, you'll learn that everyone could communicate.
• 39:34
  Like you learn that very, very fast.
• 39:37
  Even if people tell you that cop out that they can't, they can't.
• 39:41
  I believe I have seen on more than one of occasions that if
• 39:47
  you had done something or said something wrong, that you're as
• 39:51
  a support worker, you're karma will come back to you and the
• 39:54
  people that we serve don't forget.
• 39:56
  Absolutely do. Right?
• 39:58
  Yeah. Yeah, good things come back to
• 40:00
  those good people. Bad things come back to those
• 40:02
  people, too. Looking ahead, what is What do
• 40:05
  you hope most for our sector? What do you hope most for our
• 40:07
  sector? Pretty much.
• 40:09
  Oh, I hope, like like I was saying before, I'm still really
• 40:13
  glad that we've got NDIS as opposed to the old system.
• 40:16
  I hope that things become more clear all the time as well,
• 40:20
  which I know is hard, but the main thing is I just want people
• 40:25
  to remember why they started working in disability, why
• 40:29
  they're still working in disability, and to keep
• 40:32
  supporting people to achieve their goals and making people
• 40:36
  feel safe and supported. And as well, I hope I want the
• 40:39
  sector to keep innovating. As much as I work for a provider
• 40:42
  and do things, I want others to do it as well.
• 40:45
  Because more and more and more, if we're all trying to do
• 40:48
  better, then it's going to keep getting better.
• 40:50
  I love that. Yeah, you're right, But we all
• 40:53
  have to be in it together to get there.
• 40:56
  So is there anything that you'd like to add in or something I
• 40:59
  haven't touched on for today's podcast that you'd love to talk
• 41:02
  about? Because I'm Ollie is Listen, I'm
• 41:03
  nosy. Yeah, good.
• 41:06
  I guess. I'd probably like to talk about
• 41:09
  so little for life care assists. So we are developing a signature
• 41:16
  range of houses at the moment. Yeah.
• 41:19
  Yeah, it's pretty exciting. I'm very excited about it.
• 41:22
  So is our team. So it'll be landing and like
• 41:26
  people can come and see them after April this year.
• 41:29
  They're all going to have solar panels, They're all going to
• 41:32
  have these air purifier things. I can't remember exactly what
• 41:38
  they call, but we'll send that out as well soon, which it helps
• 41:43
  purify the air and make it all nice.
• 41:46
  The house is we have been working with people so they can
• 41:50
  walk into different tile shops and paint shops and choose their
• 41:54
  colours and choose their bathrooms, right.
• 41:58
  And creating homes, creating homes and people can create them
• 42:04
  themselves and if you share them with two other people, you can
• 42:07
  still create yours. It doesn't all have to be the
• 42:09
  same and it's like tap some things like that.
• 42:13
  They're all different, all different choices and nice
• 42:17
  furniture. But then on top of that,
• 42:20
  suburbs, so good suburbs where where anyone would want to
• 42:24
  leave. There's lots and lots of
• 42:26
  options. Where are the signature range
• 42:29
  rolling out? In particular, is there a
• 42:31
  particular suburb that you're currently building in or you
• 42:33
  know how to say? Yes, so I can.
• 42:36
  So in Ringwood and Box Hill and Clayton and Springvale, not
• 42:41
  Windvale are some of our once, no, no, none in Wyndham Vale.
• 42:45
  I think there's plenty there. Plenty.
• 42:47
  We're focusing on where? So where I was in other roles in
• 42:52
  Sill and now in here, there's a lot of people that come to us
• 42:55
  and want certain suburbs. They're the ones that we're
• 42:58
  going for because people want to live there and why not so?
• 43:01
  How many houses do you guys have all up that you oversee?
• 43:06
  At the moment we have 20 houses that we oversee and in the
• 43:10
  future we are building another. Well, lots, lots, because mostly
• 43:15
  people have ordered different ones or deciding on what they
• 43:19
  want. People going into tile shops
• 43:22
  today actually to choose what they would like.
• 43:25
  So yeah, there's a lot of different things happening and
• 43:28
  yeah, I'll keep sending them out to people or ask me.
• 43:30
  And are you guys Victoria wide or use every state?
• 43:36
  Victoria and Queensland at the moment is our focus.
• 43:40
  And you guys just do SDA, do you double in any other things like
• 43:44
  plan management, support, coordination?
• 43:46
  You just do housing really good. We just do housing.
• 43:50
  We're just SDA, We do some home modifications because we don't
• 43:54
  want to do everything and we're no conflict that way as well.
• 43:58
  Needs to stay like that. We also have an Indigenous group
• 44:01
  that do all of that housing builds as well.
• 44:04
  So a lot of people that needed a job and have started
• 44:07
  apprenticeships and things like that now too.
• 44:09
  And so I've been working pretty heavily with another
• 44:12
  organization that runs that and gives people a go.
• 44:15
  Yeah. So with because you're building
• 44:17
  to order, it means that when you build to order, there also has
• 44:21
  to be a another organization involved that provides support
• 44:25
  within the home for the people that we serve.
• 44:27
  Do you get a opportunity to work alongside our NDIS participants
• 44:33
  to choose providers that best suit their needs?
• 44:37
  Absolutely. So I would say we get probably
• 44:40
  70% that come to us and say that they've already got a provider
• 44:43
  they'd like to bring with them. But then there's a high number
• 44:46
  as well of people that come and go.
• 44:48
  Can you recommend a provider? And so I've often given people
• 44:52
  three different providers that I've either worked with before
• 44:56
  or somebody else's set about or something.
• 44:58
  It also really depends on that person's support needs to who,
• 45:02
  because I think every provider's got their niche of things that
• 45:05
  they're really good at as well, so.
• 45:07
  How do you get the list down to 3?
• 45:10
  When you're recommending the three providers of choice, what
• 45:13
  things do you look for? I asked a participant and their
• 45:16
  circle of supports, so their family and supports, support
• 45:21
  coordinator and things, what's most important or what hasn't
• 45:25
  worked before and what do you wish worked?
• 45:28
  And then I've put out into the LinkedIn universe and to other
• 45:32
  places as well and gone. Can you provide this?
• 45:35
  Do you know how to do this? And is this something that's one
• 45:39
  of your priorities? And then I've said to
• 45:42
  participants and their families when I provide some providers,
• 45:46
  interview them, make sure you are happy with them, go and meet
• 45:49
  with them and see, because I'm like, I can give you all these
• 45:53
  providers, but they could be telling me whatever they want to
• 45:56
  tell me. You make that choice.
• 45:57
  You just. Frogs.
• 45:58
  That's how it happens until we find them.
• 46:01
  That's it exactly, exactly once they enter, and you never know.
• 46:05
  Well just say you've got your 3 peeps living together.
• 46:08
  They can choose to kick out that provider if they're not meeting
• 46:12
  what is required for support. Absolutely.
• 46:14
  So I mean, last week one of the providers was replaced.
• 46:18
  They weren't meeting all the things that the participant
• 46:20
  wanted them to. So the family called us and
• 46:24
  asked what to do and we said we just need to give them notice
• 46:28
  and have you got another provider coming in?
• 46:30
  So very simple. It was all done.
• 46:32
  And I'm not, it's for the participant.
• 46:34
  It's, it's what they want. It's their home.
• 46:37
  We are just the landlord. After that, I think mostly that
• 46:42
  they think that they can enter a sealed space and it's like a
• 46:45
  setting to get it. It isn't.
• 46:47
  It isn't a setting to get. You have to consistently
• 46:50
  remember your NDIS participants that you provide careful and you
• 46:54
  have to do really good care or else you will get showing the
• 46:57
  door. Absolutely, yeah.
• 46:59
  A mentor of mine told me years and years ago, and I still say
• 47:03
  it to people all the time and remember it.
• 47:05
  If you went into a restaurant and your waiter was playing on
• 47:08
  their phone and they'll be crappy with providing new
• 47:11
  service, would you go back there and would you tip them?
• 47:14
  No, no dingy. I would so them anyway.
• 47:17
  Why would somebody exactly? But you wouldn't go back there
• 47:21
  ever, because there's all these others that you can go to
• 47:24
  instead 100. Percent.
• 47:26
  So yeah, I think that's something to bear in mind as
• 47:30
  well, especially because I know that I feel like in our space,
• 47:34
  the opportunity that most people lean into is to want to be a
• 47:38
  SEAL provider, which I'm not full because I don't believe
• 47:42
  that everyone should be a SEAL provider.
• 47:43
  And I think you should start with supporting somebody 2 hours
• 47:47
  a week until you get really good at supporting people and
• 47:50
  understanding what it takes to support somebody.
• 47:52
  Because when you're getting to the SEAL space and being the
• 47:56
  provider of choice, you really need to show up for somebody in
• 48:00
  the fullness of their life, not just for a couple of hours.
• 48:03
  You're there, you're it. Is there anything?
• 48:05
  Else you're it. And working in still is very
• 48:08
  hard, so you have to do it right.
• 48:10
  Well, good. That's Yeah, no, that's it.
• 48:15
  That's it. All right.
• 48:16
  For me, so much for.