Latest / Legally Brunette / Killer Thriller: When you need to be afraid of your father.

Transcript

Killer Thriller: When you need to be afraid of your father. · Legally Brunette

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan.
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: Hey, everyone, welcome back to Killer Thriller. We're picking up
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: my conversation with Elizabeth Rome, digging into two cases where
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: abuse and control went unchecked for years inside a college
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: campus and inside a family home. All right, let's talk
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: about Devil on Campus. Now Devil on Campus the Larry
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: Ray story quickly, For those of you who don't know,
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Larry Ray infamously moved in with his daughter on the
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: campus of her college and became a cult like leader
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: of her group of friends. It is incredibly disturbing. I
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: can't express how disturbing it is. He forced some of
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: them into prostitution for his own financial benefit, amongst a
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: host of other things. And this movie also is so
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: good and this it gets into you know, cult like behavior, abuse,
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: all kinds of things. But first I just want to
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: start with this happened at Sarah Lawrence and you went
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: to Sarah Lawrence, right, Yeah, so this is very close
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: to home.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: No it did it? Did?
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: My stepmother had said to me. Did I read the
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: article that had just come out called The Lost Children
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: of Sarah Lawrence? In the cut and I said nope,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: and she sent it to me, and I thought, and
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: no judgment necessarily of my alma mater, but my mother
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: went there as well. I've served on the board of
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Sarah Lawrence when I was on Law and Order. I
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: love this school so much. How in the world could
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: they have allowed this to happen.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: I am a.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Mother of a teenager. I cannot imagine that, I mean,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: no checks and balances, that this father who had just
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: been released from prison, would be allowed to bunk out
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: in this dorm.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Sort of like and it's hey, no big deal, parents
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: can visit their children. I mean, I was like outraged,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Oh my god.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: And so I reached out to my dear friend Dan Abrams,
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: who has Lawn Crime, which is a media platform for
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: crime stories and crime reporting, and I said, you know
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: this Larry Ray trial.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I need to get in there. I need to get
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: a screenwriter in there.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: At the time, I was talking to the then head
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: of Lifetime, Tanya Lopez, who had been a great mentor
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: for me, and I said, can we tell this story?
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: And of course the answer was yes, but of course
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: it has to be adjudicated. So then again we're always
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: waiting for trials to come to end to end and
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: to then move forward in narrative. So we did that,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: and in the meantime, we did a podcast on Wondery
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: called Devil in the Dorm or I can't remember. The
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: movie's called Devil on Campus and the podcast is called
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Devil in the Dorm. And that was the whole point
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: of view of the podcast, which was to say, I
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: went to school here, like what the fuck?
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: And I could not believe it. I remember reading about
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: it and saying this is I don't understand that. I
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: don't understand how this is possible. Like I couldn't get
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: past the fact that the first moment, which is wait,
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: he moved into her dorm room. I don't even understand
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: how that was allowed.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: So that was the first major issue is this would
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: never have happened had the school shut it down immediately,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: And maybe it would have happened, but at the end
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: of the day, shame on them. And then we did
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: the podcast. I think the podcast really unpacked Larry Ray's history.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: He was a professional criminal. He was the most corrupt person.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: So in other words, you've now allowed this human being
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: to bunk out with formative minds, young people who are
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: all lost and all surging.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're all lost and searching.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: But you know, particular teenager and you're in college, you're
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: really seeking a sense of self, you're looking for leadership,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: you're looking for an identity, frankly, and that's what he did.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: He came in with this program that he'd created and
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: he started to mind meld them. By the end of
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: the year their sophomore year, he said, come move into
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: my apartment in Manhattan, and they did, and then everything
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: went really sideways, right right, and he was found guilty
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: on sixteen counts of criminal activity, including extortion and prostitution.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Good good not still not, I mean, so not to
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: say I'm a little afraid when all these people come
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: out of prison, right right, No, we do have a brand,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: after all.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, at a target on your back.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: So how important was it to show you how ordinary
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: and non threatening he was at first? Because he comes
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: from the place of visus said sort of help instead
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: of violent, And I think people often think, oh, it's
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: some sort of strong violence immediately, and then there everybody there,
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: you know, minds get warped. It's really from the place
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: of help that he comes and is able.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: To Yeah, I mean, you're like, this guy is so unattractive.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, how is he getting these
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: young women to be even enamored with him at all
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: and then to end up in a relationship with the
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: two of them. And these are brilliant young people who
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: are at Sarah Lawrence in Colombia and you know, really
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: potentially going to do great things with their life. Like
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: so anyway, he had to be charismatic, and he was charismatic,
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: and that's what people said. You know, he was the
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: yes man. He could get it done. You know, he
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: was a pied piper. And that was why I felt like,
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: you know, Billy Zane is one of the most charming, brilliant,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: multi hyphened artists. He's sexy, he's intelligent, he's a director.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I thought he's really he could really get underneath this
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: and and manipulate these kids.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: Yep, he's terrific in it, and I horrific. There's a
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: moment where exemplifies exactly that his belly is kind of
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: hanging over his undershorts and he's telling them about.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: How to work out.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: Let's talk about, yeah, like how to work out you
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: need a firm middle or something, and they're all you know,
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: they're they're like doing planks on the ground. It's just
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: like that that is it? Like that is that person?
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: And Billy couldn't have been a better partner to explore
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: what like coercive people do that want to manipulate you
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: and take your power away.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: And you know, anyway, it's a pretty horrible tale.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: So I read something where one of the survivors said
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: that Ray took you say, he took away everything that
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: made me me. That is like a very strong statement.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: So I mean, how do you even begin to translate
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: that on screen? How do you That feels like a
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: big responsibility.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: I think that you know, first the actors have to
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: be willing to go there.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: And then you know, in the breaking down of somebody's
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: sense of self and self worth, you know, you're really
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: getting to play an in an area in our psyche
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: that is so fragile and that we have to protect.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: I say this to my son all the time. I'm like,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: be careful who you spend time with. You will become
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: like them, you know, protect your peace right, all the
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: things we say as parents or but it is so
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: important to not give your power away or to let
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: somebody degrade you, because as they degrade you, you begin
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: to lose exactly with that quote, like he took away
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: every part of myself. Now you're only swimming in shame,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: and you're going to start to recede from, you know,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: any observation of other people because you're so ashamed.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: And then it gets darker and darker and darker.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: As you begin to kind of fall into a pattern,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: you know, a terrible behavior.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's really what happened, you know.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Once she started to particularly be prostituted, her sense of
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: self was so eroded, and she was so ashamed, and
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: she'd gotten into a cycle that was so shameful that
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: she then totally pulled away from her parents. In the meantime,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: her parents were begging her to allow them to save her,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: protect her, and to remove her from that relationship.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Like actually, I played Claudia's mom in the movie, and
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: one of my favorite scenes is when.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: He comes to my house and there's she and he
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: are sitting there and I physically attacked him and she
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: left with him. Right, that's like a self worth issue, yes,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: because she couldn't deal with us saving her.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: She couldn't, right, right, that as a mother. I have
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: a thirteen year old daughter, and you know, these years
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: thirteen fourteen, they're so particularly vulnerable and really trying to
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: figure out who they are. And I see my daughter,
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: you know, taking on other people's behaviors. Now we're talking
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: about very simple sort of you know, basic things. But
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: I'm always trying to say to her, you have to
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: remember who you are, because this is a kid who
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: was like her own person all the time, always right,
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: always a little bit, you know, some weird outfits, always
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: was interested in interesting things and did and I see
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: this kind of like narrowing of her vision. And it
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: really is about self worth and confidence and all those things.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: And if we don't develop them and really value a
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: sense of self, it's so easy to fall into these,
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: And it's hard, Like how do you actually parent people?
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: You can't control them. I mean, you can't demand it.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: You can't force them into having a good relationship with themselves, right,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: But I don't know. Maybe if we are people, you know,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: who want to manifest good experiences in our lives, and
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: we think positive thoughts and our thoughts become things and
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: so forth, and we're teaching our children how to protect
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: our thoughts and our individuality.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: I tried at least say.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: To Anthony, you know, to you know, really be careful
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: who he spends time with, because you will become like
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: the people you spend time with. And I have, in
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: my own life spent time with people who've elevated me,
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: and I've spent time with people who've brought me to
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: the gutter.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: So true, it's so true. So you know, that's very true.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: You were you shocked by how long this went on?
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: Like how long some of these people I've read it
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: till ten years later they were still underhit, like for
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: that long of a pure of time. Does that surprise you?
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I think what it did is it taught me how
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: easily we can lose ourselves and to go back to
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: protecting ourselves, not from others, or from intimacy, or from
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: even trusting making.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: New relationships, but just really listening to your spidey senses.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, the minute you think that something is not
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: correct and it does not feel right, it is not right.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: And because the further you go in to that kind
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: of bad behavior, the harder it is to get out,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: because you begin to lose contact with other people, you
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: begin to lose contact with your family, and you begin
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: to lose contact with your inner voice, and you're doing
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: things you feel terribly ashamed of. So then you, like
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: you said, you begin to lose your sense of self.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: And that's how people get stuck. And that's use of
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: relationships of any sort of abuse.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: That's kind of the core one of the core values
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: of the cult of how you get there, like the
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: sleep deprivation. The more sleep deprived you are, the more
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: you can think straight, the more susceptible you are to things.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: And it's a slippery slope. So you worked with legal
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: analyst Dan Abrams to get access to raise trial transcripts,
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: which is incredible. Tell me about that. I mean, it
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: must have been very, very.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Useful, absolutely, because what we did is, again we were
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: waiting for the trial for years, it kept getting postponed
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: because he kept he kept claiming he had medical issues,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: and that's oftentimes something that a criminal, an accused person,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: i should say, pulls that card frequently, and that's why
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: it takes sometimes years to actually get the trial going.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: But once it was going, we actually were able to
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: get in there with a court reporter, so we were
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: getting access to it minute by minute, and our screenwriter
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: went there for a couple of days as well.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Oh wow.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: So we were writing the movie in real time as
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: it was unfolding. Wow, So that by the time it
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: was adjudicated, whichever way it went, we would have ended
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: up making amendments, but we were writing the actual film.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, it was incredible. I didn't realize.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: And that's in a weird way what we were doing
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: with the Dating app Killer too. We were really on
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: top of that one for two years as we watched
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: to see what ended up happening in that trial, right,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: and what Anthony Robinson was going to be found guilty
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: of it, which would have impacted the whole ending of
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: the movie.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Sure, I mean this is again, why is these your
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: movies feel very deep and nuanced and not sensationalized. It's
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: you know, research and proper actual backdrop of what's happening.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: So did you so when this is something that I
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: was thinking and reading all of this, like where all
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: along the journey, like where were the grown ups? Where
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: were the adults? Where was where were these people's parents?
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: Aside from Claudia whom even you know, we only see
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: her part of the time. So did you did you
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: wonder that too, Like, where what about the other parents?
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: Where were they?
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: They were around all the parents were trying to get
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: their kids. These were kids who were loved, you know,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: the Santos siblings that were involved. You know, again he
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: was he was extorting money from them by claiming that
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: they had damaged his property. And they're going hand out
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: to their parents, some with wealthy parents, some with not
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: wealthy parents, some and asking for money. I mean, they
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: all just got in so deep with this guy. And
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: what do parents do when their child is in trouble.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: They want to take care of them, Oh did our
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: child do this thing? And then they're helping their child
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: out that first time. But then there's a second time,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: and a third time and afore you know, and then
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: it's looking like a racket. So then there's conflict within
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: the family. But these families, you know, to my knowledge,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: were very much trying to get their kids out of
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: this relationship.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: Did working on this change how you think about cult behavior?
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Absolutely?
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Actually, last year we just sold a Sea or East
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: NBC that was about coercive thought, it's not going to
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: move forward. But what's interesting is that really birthed the
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: whole idea that we need, you know, we need medical
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: professionals that help sort of unscramble people's minds. Yes, once
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: somebody gets in there and kind of dismantles you and
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: takes you apart, you need to be put back together
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: and you need help, and you need experts to help
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: you with that. And I think that's a very interesting
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: way to look at victims, to look at crimes, and
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: to you know, to look at healing.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: Yes, I've I talked with Sarah Edmondson who was in
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: the Nexium cult, and I'm just blown away by her
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: how she has really really does the work continually and
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: continues to do it and to try to help other people.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: And it's it's because it's not a simple exit.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: No, And you're not you're not an idiot or not
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: a goodolved person because you got manipulated by a monster
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: who just targeted you.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Right right back to the Dating up killer. Yes, you
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: know she was.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Monica White was a target and he was always looking
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: for these targets that seemed particularly lonely and were articulating
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: their need for love. And you know he was looking
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: for these victims too.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: So do you think that's the primary thing they like,
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: why why why fall Smart people get pulled into things
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: like this, like that of love.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: That and also these master manipulators, they know exactly how
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: to get into your head, tell you what you want
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: to hear, give you what you want to get.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: You know, their love bombers.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: I mean they're not just they're not touching in the
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: face the second they see you. They're manipulating you into
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: the relationship probably you know, over a period of time,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: and then once they've got you, then they break you
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: down and then they set rate you from your people.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: I just recently saw video, just in preparing for this
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: after watching the movie, a real video that they had
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: of him physically, and it's very in the film, it's
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: done very well, and it's very similar. But how arresting
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: that is because you see the first, you know, the
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: love bombing first, and then how it turns to that violence,
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: and then how confusing that is to the mind, right
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: the person who's experiencing it, And it's just heartbreaking.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Right right.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: There's a scene in the movie where he takes he
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: takes a hammer to one of the kids and to
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: threaten them, and I just remember the heartbreak in that
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: actor's eyes because he was just trying to like please him,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: but it turned really fast and then it becomes an
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: act of violence. And there's so much disappointment and so
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: much hurt in this person, in this actor, but in
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: the way they portrayed it that I can see, I
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: hope you know in the audience can see. You know,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: then even that begins to break down your sense of
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: self because you've trusted this person and now they're degrading you,
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: and you feel, what have I done wrong? And then
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: you begin to sort of doubt yourself right right, You
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: get so confused, and that.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Begins to break down your self esteem too.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: Was there a particular moment that really in the case
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: like that really just major stomach drop that made you say,
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: I can't believe this is really happening.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: I think it was really that scene.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: And also when he took all the kids out to
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: North Carolina and he had them doing manual labor on
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: his land, and I mean it was like the summer
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: camp of Larry Ray was like a war camp. And
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: it was some of them even sleeping outside because and
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: he would say they want to or he's punishing them,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: or you know. And also there you know his daughter
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: was these were some of her friends, and then he's
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: kind of putting his daughter up on a pedestal. Like
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: the whole situation in North Carolina was like, it's so
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: disturbing to me.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: So was the daughter in North Carolina?
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: She was there.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Wish she had gone there for a period of time,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: but like they were there for the whole time.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: Is she where? Do you know where the daughter is today?
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: What her she's always kind of I think stood by him.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: I don't really know. Yeah, oh boy.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: What do you think that or what do you hope
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: that parents and colleges take away from this one?
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Well?
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: I you know, obviously, I think keep communicating with your kids,
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: try not to judge them so that they didn't they
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: don't shut the door on you.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: That's what I really try to do with Anthony. I
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: want to talk to him about everything, so he includes me.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Even recently, I was saying to him I had an
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: opinion about something and he was like stop, And I
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: was like, you know what, I am going to stop? Yeah,
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: I said, you know you're going to have to make
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: your decisions. You're going to figure it out. I trust you,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: you're going to make it work. Like I needed to
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: stop micromanaging and evolve with him as he's evolving, so
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: as he goes to college or becomes a young adult,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: that he doesn't close the door to me, so there
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: aren't secrets that I am not a part of that
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: I can't get in there a little bit and at
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: least try to give him my best advice to just
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: be in the conversation with him, because it's that's the
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: thing I think, you know you can really continue to
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: do with your kids is just try to stay in
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: their loop and maybe you need to do it a
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: little bit like they need they need it to be done.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: Right, right, That is I mean, parenting is the hardest
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: thing on earth, but that particular balance is really it's
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: really I'm finding that challenging, you knoweah, because.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: You want to be like, no, you can't do it that, No,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: you can't do that, yeah, and then immediately they're tuting
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: you out. As they get older, they'll be doing things
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: you don't know anything about it.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: Right, oh yeah, yeah.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: So at least trying to stay in the conversation and
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: not you know, being so judgmental.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: Right right, all right, now, let this let's get to
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: one of the most unbelievable stories that I have ever
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: seen on film. Girl in the Basement. It is inspired
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: by true events. I mean, the story is it's almost unbearable.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: The real crime happened in Austria, and the location was
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: switched to the United States, and the real crime was
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: Elizabeth Fritzel. When she was eighteen. Her father lured her
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: into the basement, covered her mouth with an ether soaked cloth,
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: and locked her in, where she would stay imprisoned for
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: twenty four years. She would have seven children with her father,
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: one of whom dies now. She i'ved eighty five hundred
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: and sixteen days in captivity with three of the children
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: in the basement. How did you prepare yourself to tell
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: the story? And I didn't realize this was your first
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: directorial debut. I mean, it's a stunner.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: You did a phenomenal job with this movie, first of all,
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: But so how did you prepare yourself to tell it?
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: How did this come about?
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: You know, I had been watching this Fritzal story. I
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: just I thought, exactly like what you said. I've never
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: seen or heard of, or been reading about a crime
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: that was worse. And I you know, I'm not an
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Ambulance Chaser. Even though these movies have their thing, but
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: at that time, I was just a person who just
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: happened to see a story in the news and I thought,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: I can't this is the darkest thing I've ever seen
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: in my life. Then when it was in development, I thought,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: you know what God works in mysterious ways. You know
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: this is I'm going to do this for her. I'm
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: going to tell this story. And I just really began
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: to fold in the romance, even though that wasn't entirely true.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: I wanted to bring in, you know, Hope and and
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Stephanie Scott, who I actually just saw last night.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Oh so she plays the daughter.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: She's just astunnish.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: And then we had auditioned Emma Myers, who hadn't yet
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: done Wednesday. So I think in some ways I'm a
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: beginning part of her beginning of her power.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: Who she was from Wednesday reps. Yeah, I know this actress.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, she also was incredible. Everybody was incredible, Jollie Fisher,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Judd Nelson, everybody, everybody. But I think it was about,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: you know, again, really finding the humanity in Stephanie's character
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: in particular, and making her a great mother and building
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: the world down in the basement to you know, to
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: make you not be in horror, but to to also
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: be in it with her, Like it just became a reality.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: It just became a horrible, horrible reality reality. And that's
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: how she was able to sustain herself survival. You know,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: she survived and she did whatever she had to do
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: to survive. And then she did it even by being
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: a good parent. And that's how they got out was
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: because one of the children became ill and she convinced him. Finally,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: this monster of a father, she convinced him to take
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: the child to the hospital. And when the child got there,
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: they said, where is this mother. This child has not
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: seen obviously a medical physician. Where is this mother? And
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: that is how she and she was in the basement.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: She saw it on the news and she said, I'll go,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: I'll go, and then she went and then she said.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Help, Oh my god. And that's how it all came apart.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: And it just I felt like, there's a woman, there's
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: a girl that's life was stolen from her, and I'm
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: going to tell this story for her, for her.
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's it's really unbelievable, I mean, and the
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: fact that I mean it being her own father, you
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: really well wait, I was there was something I was
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: going to say while you're talking about her and actually mothering.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: It really shows you the the determination of the human spirit, right,
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: and how we all have a choice under any circumstances.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: She didn't just implode and I don't know, just lay
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: there and not like it's kind of extraordinary that desire
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: to create a world for the children that is somehow magical,
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: is somehow safe, is somehow okay amidst this just unspeakable violence.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Well, and in the real story, it's the mother, really
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: is is it fault? Because the father had been accused
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: of rape at one point, and she turned to blind
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: eye to that accusation. He was degrading to her, and
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: he had lascivious things going on, like he would travel
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: to Thailand all the time and do crazy things and whatever.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: And had she paid attention and demanded something different, she
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: might have been able to save her children, because what
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: was happening was that daughter was becoming well, she was beautiful,
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: she was becoming independent, and she was becoming a rebel.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: And if they weren't in that situation, maybe it never
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: would have happened, so he wanted to control her, and
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: he was controlling to the mother in the whole situation.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: The house was toxic.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: So again I think there's I'm hearing a theme as
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: we're talking.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: I want to tell I.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Want to tell responsible stories about generational abuse and it's
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: you know, psychological deprivation when it's not dealt with, because
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: when it's not dealt with, it becomes cancerous and it
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: destroys lives. Because there is a theme in all of
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: these And had this mother done things differently and even
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: like these kids continually continually being put on her doorstep
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: in a basket with a note attached with that he
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: wrote himself about their daughter who was wild and doing
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: wild things and had gotten pregnant, and like, oh here's
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: another baby from our baby. No, they were his baby,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: and they raised a couple of them.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: I mean, how like aay, oh okay, so now we'll
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: just take care of her. I mean, Jolly Fisher, he
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: as well was wonderful. She was incredible, And I'm wondering
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: if I that the choice of her, you know, having
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: a drink a lot of the time, having a little wine.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: I feel like that says I'm tuning out a little
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: bit even you know, certainly, I'm sure she didn't imagine
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: the absolute war. I mean, I don't know what she
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: this woman was thinking, but I feel like that was
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: a really smart piece of the character to just sort
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: of suggest maybe I'm not quite you know, maybe I'm
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: using this to tune out to what I sure do.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: And then it's also all about secrets, like, if you
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: really know the history of the Elizabeth Fritzel situation, he
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: and his friend had spent a year redoing the basement
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: into living quarters for what I have no idea, No
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: one ever lived, no one ever lived in, and no
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: one ever spoke about for all those years that that
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: space if you've seen the pictures, I mean, it was
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: like made into a living space down there.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: It's crazy.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Wait did she never question, oh what happened? What have
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: you been doing in the basement? Where's that thing?
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: And the friend that has a daughter missing?
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: You never questioned your friend saying, wait a second, what
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: did we just do? What?
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: What's all that down there that I helped you engineer
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: and build out?
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: Oh my god?
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, scary.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: So there was an article in the Guardian that says
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: Josef fritzl began abusing Elizabeth when she was eleven. Do
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: you know if that's true, and if so, why did
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: you choose to leave that out of the film.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if that's true.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: And we have eighty seven minutes to tell a story,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: and you know, I don't do like the biblical you know,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: from cradle to grave. You know, you've got to find
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I think as a filmmaker, you've got to find a
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: singular sort of way in. It was hard enough telling
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: a story of twenty four years, let alone going back
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: to the childhood.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: And I'm not often interested in.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Flashbacks as a vehicle in storytelling. So yeah, I think
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: this was the right way to do it. But there
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: was word that there was that history, right. I don't
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: know for a fact, though.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: Was there a moment in the movie that still haunts
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: you or a scene in particular that was really meaningful
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: or memorable?
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: You know. I was asked to play a part in
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: that movie as well, and again I was sort of
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: stepping back from the acting, but I thought, you know what,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: I'll play this part. And it was the nurse who
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: she ran to, like I could get emotional.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: I felt like, yeah, m.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: You know, just because I feel like, as a filmmaker,
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: you have a responsibility to particularly the victims. So to
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: play the character that she ran to in the movie,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, you know, it's so many years
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: ago that I made that movie, and I'm still like
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: taken by that because I you know, I may never
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: meet Elizabeth Fritzl, but I do hope if she sees it,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: she feels that I, you know, was trying to tell
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: a story that portrayed her in a deep way, that.
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: That scene is really really strong, really powerful.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And what was I seen the other day on Instagram?
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: I was seeing this stewardess who was walking past two
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: people and this woman flashed her leg and it had
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: help on it and she helped get this girl away
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: from this captive. And I thought, you know, wow, that
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: really is like that scene and girl in the basement
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: when she ran to me and hugged me so hard
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: like and he was down the hall looking.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: At me, and that was, you know, fictionalized.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: But I think I did it like that because as
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: a filmmaker, I felt a sense of responsibility that here
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: I was telling this story. She was already out of
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: the basement. She's already moved on with her life. But
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: I hoped if she saw the movie that she would
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: feel like I was protecting her.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that she your character saw her felt she didn't
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: have to say anything. Yeah, you just knew this girl
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: needs my protection and she is not okay.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: And by the way, these tears sometimes happen on set
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: because these are very intense films. We've not talked about Husband,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Father Killer, but I will just say Jackie Cruz, the
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: journey she went on in that movie. I tell you,
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: scene after scene she would do these performances and I
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: would be by the monitor cry and she would be like, Liz, you're.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Crying on crying. What's happening? Yeah, you know, just really
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: but it's heavy, heavy stuff.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm the same thing with you know, the young
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: actress who played Claudia and Devil on Campus. I mean,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: you're talking about actresses in these scenes coming to you
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: as the director and being a female director and holding
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: space for them.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: It can sometimes be very heavy.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: M h.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: I mean I think that's a sign that you're doing
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: something meaningful and something strong.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: And that the actors are good, and that the actors
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: are good.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, everybody is really and that they're going there, there's
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: a sense of responsibility. Again, I say, like, not ambulance chasers,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: not interested in doing gratuitous stories. I definitely love the
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: true crime genre, but trying to do it with the purpose.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, did you so, was it important to you then
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: to have that the movie end on a happy note?
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: I think that it is important to have these movies
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: end on a happy note.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: I think that I'm not trying I'm not a.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: Astrophist trying to tell stories that are just so horrible
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: and dark, and I'm not I'm not, you know, trying
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: to sensationalize anything. But I do want to tell stories
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: about the indomitable human spirit, because no matter what we're
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: going through, everybody's story, everybody is going through something always period,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: end of story, whether it's their parents aren't well, or
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: they're having a bad day with their spouse, or they're
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: just whatever's happening.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: So to be conscious of each other and.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: To celebrate each other's strengths and our ability to rise yes,
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: to rise up, you know, from anything and absolutely anything.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: I mean, she's an example. Do you know anything about
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: the life that Elizabeth went on to live. It's see,
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: it was very hard for me to get any information.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: She chose to really live a private life.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, you can imagine they changed names like some
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: you know, because they I mean they were such an exposed,
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: you know family like how To and also one of
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: the people who helped her get out, she ended up
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: in a relationship with I think for a long for
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: a while. So that was part of why I sort
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: of had this inspiration to add this like boyfriend, that
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: element into the movie that she did end up seeing
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: that was fictionalized. But she's a private person and I
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: think she does not want the stigma associated with her
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: her children, that their children of incest, right right, Yeah,
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: because that they can't then go on and live their lives.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: And when they came out of the basement, they were
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: still young people.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: The world of life.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: Wife ahead of them, right. So he Joseph is in prison,
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: he's expected to die there, but then I read something
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: that he wants to reunite with his family and his wife,
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: reconcile with his wife and things that he will see them.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: I mean, what do you think about that He's he's
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: mentally ill.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: No, I think they should have, you know, put a
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: brick around his ankle and dropped him into the deepest ocean.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I honestly, you know, I'm who am
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: I to judge?
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: But that is the worst most evil person I've ever
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: heard of.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Agree?
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: I agree?
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, if we talk about a serial
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: killer and they're going out and they're killing people, that's
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: pretty bad. But when you are doing this to your
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: own child, it's it's an unimaginable crime.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, how do you personally protect yourself emotionally when you're
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: making these movies?
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm really I'm really all about the actors.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: So once the work is done around the story and
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: creating the story and producing the story with Kara, and
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: then we're off to the races with a network and
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: we're shooting it and filming it, I'm pretty moment to moment,
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm really in the scene with the actor,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: really trying to architect the arc, you know, to keep
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: the suspense, to keep the thrill, to push for really strong,
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: big performances. And I love actors so much that I'm
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: more enthusiastic than crying by the monitor, although there are
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: sometimes scenes where your heart is just so ripped out
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: of your chest because you can't believe this even happened
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: in life, and then the actor elevates it so much
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: that you know, you can be pretty raw. But most
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: of the time I'm actually just like, I'm like a
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: player's coach. I'm like doing a round of applause for them,
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: because being myself, when I say at coaching, I'm like,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: I'm like, that's what it is.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: That's what it is.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: So what do you hope that people carry with them
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: after watching this the dating app killer? Well, first in
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: the Girl in the Basement, and then each one will say,
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: each one the girl in the basement.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: You know, interestingly, the Girl in the Basement does go
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: into more the family aspect of it. If there is
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: inappropriate behavior at home, if you are with an abusive
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: partner and you have children, get out, Just do whatever
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: you can to get out, because I think things like
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: that that are not sort of addressed or confronted will
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: they will become cancerous and things will get worse.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: It's not maybe they will definitely get worse in whichever way.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: So protect your children. Even if you're terrified, there is
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: help out there for you, ask for it. But above all,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: even if you're a wounded person who's made bad decisions,
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: just get out, protect your children, and then start to
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: heal yourself. That is the girl in the basement, I
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: would say, devil on campus when you are responsible again
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: for young people, like institution, like a.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Colleges or a parent.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Again, it's about protecting your children, and that is a
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: responsibility that a college commits to a family when they
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: bring their child there. And Sarah Lawrence is a phenomenal college.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I loved it.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: I just think that there have to be very strong
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: restrictions as to, you know, who can get access to
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: these kids that you're responsible for. And then the dating
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: app killer you know, so you know, I loved the
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: doc the Tinder Swindler. I thought that was so interesting
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: because I think it's it could happen to anybody. There's
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: no shame in sort of being duped by a love
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: bomber or being manipulated by somebody you meet online or whatever.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: Just don't flush your life away, try to listen to
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: your instincts, and definitely don't meet people in.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Dark places without a plus one.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: You know, make sure you sick, make sure yeah family
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: a couple of your interactions.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: Oh, also, before we close up, I know you're a
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: huge supporter of RAIN, Rape, Abuse and Incest Networks, the
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: nation's largest anti sexual violence organization and operator of the
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: National Sexual Assault Hotline. And I know at the end.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Of The Girl and Thirteen you did it. Yeah. Yeah.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: Is there anything more you want to say about RAIN?
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: I just want to say that, you know, RAIN is
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: there for you if you are in any of these
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: kinds of relationships, if you're terrified and you have nowhere
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: to go, this is an organization that is there for you.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: And I think Lifetime again continues to responsibly tell these stories.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: There's always a call to action, and I really hope
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: that people, if they're finding themselves witnessing these things, experiencing
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: these things.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: That they reach out for help. There is help out
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: there for you.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: Yes, okay, Well, The Girl in the Basement is streaming
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: on Hulu, Devil on Campus, The Larry Race story is
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: streaming on Netflix, and the dating app Killer, the Monica
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: White Story.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Enjoy. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: Thank you. It's been great.