Latest / The Daily Writer / The Journey of Writing a Novel (with Bethany Lee)

Transcript

The Journey of Writing a Novel (with Bethany Lee) · The Daily Writer

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Writer.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Each weekday, we bring you a short lesson that helps you live out the four practices of a great writer: creativity, consistency, courage, and connection.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Here on the weekend edition, we take a deeper dive into those topics through conversations with notable writers, as well as teaching that helps us apply what we're learning and also prepare for the week ahead.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: For more, you can visit us at dailywriterlife.com.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: As I talk to writers, one of the most common themes I hear is, I've always wanted to write a novel.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like almost everybody has a story they would like to tell.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: But how do you get it done?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: What is the process for writing a novel?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you work through all the inevitable struggle of the messy middle?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that part where the excitement wears off and you're still a long ways from finishing that book.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm really thankful that I have an amazing guest today who's here to give us some of those answers.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Her name is Bethany Lee, and she's published her first novel, which is an amazing young adult book titled Called Upon.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Bethany describes herself as an outside girl who loves biking, hiking, and basically any activity that can be done in yoga pants.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: She is a communications graduate who has a soft spot for young adults and all of the cringy moments they experience every day.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Bethany has been a creative writer since early childhood, and she uses humor, honesty, and whimsy to pull the reader in and invite them to laugh, relate, and introspect.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Bethany lives in Lehigh, Utah with her husband and three children.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: In this conversation, Bethany talks about the power of fiction, how she came up with the story of Called Upon, her writing process for getting it done, and much, much more.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've ever thought about writing a novel, I know that you're going to be inspired by her journey and her determination to get a book out into the world.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: So here's my interview with Bethany Lee.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Bethany, I'm so glad you're on the show today.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to start here with our discussion.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: And this is kind of a very basic question, but why fiction?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: What is it about uh fiction that really draws us into stories?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: And why are we so drawn to to fiction as human beings?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, for me, well, I think as humans, like we love to create, right?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: We all have different ways that um we create, whether it be um web design, gardening, art, writing.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for me, building stories has always been my form of creation.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that is what fuels me.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's what pulls me out of my funks when I'm feeling depressed or anxious.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's just that that act of creation that really calls to me.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I felt like I needed to write books.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: I need to write some fiction.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, do you read a lot of fiction yourself?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I assume the answer is yes.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe a better question is so much.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, in fact, probably two or three books a week.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: A week.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I listen to a lot of them on um Audible.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like that's kind of cheating, but I just love absorbing stories.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: I love hearing um about lives that are completely different than mine.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: I love a good thriller, a good murder.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all that stuff.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: She loves a good murder.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is your experience as a listener when you experience a book on audio versus reading it?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like it's it's just a different experience in with that storytelling?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: It absolutely is.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think one of the drawbacks of doing it um by listening to it is that I've become a little bit lazier.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: So sitting down and physically reading that book, which I think is an important skill and a very good brain exercise, becomes a little bit trickier um when it's just you can be doing the dishes and be listening to a book and it feels so efficient.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, it's very different.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Also, um, your experience is very much dependent upon the narrator of the book.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so true.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: So if you don't like their voice, then that might color how you feel about the book that you're reading.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or on the flip side, it could just make the experience that much better.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever been listening to an audiobook and you just go in your mind you think, who thought that this narrator would be a good match for the story?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like it happens a lot with Audible.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what's going on there.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just read or listened to one, I wish I could remember the name of it, The Dutch House.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And the narrator was Tom Hanks.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that was one where I had the opposite feeling.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this is the best narrator that could possibly happen for this specific book.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: It just really couldn't have been better.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really fascinated by this trend lately that celebrities are reading a lot more audiobooks.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like Audible promotes that a lot, and like even huge time celebrities like Tom Hanks, for example, it's really interesting because I think that in a way gives a lot of legitimacy to books and audiobooks and the whole experience of what an audiobook can be.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Almost like just an audio movie, I suppose.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm wondering how they're coaxing the the big time actors to do that because it probably there's not a whole lot of money in it for them.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I wouldn't think you're gonna sit in a book.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they just love the book.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, I've got to be the narrator of this book.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna sit in a booth for a week, uh, in an ISO booth, and you're gonna be really uncomfortable and sweaty um for like$2,000 or something.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's crazy.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: They've got they probably just love the book.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're here to talk about your book, uh, not my weird analogies to sweaty sound booths, I guess.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: So so let's dive in here.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, give us a little bit of background of how you decided to write Called Upon and what that whole story was gonna be.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so ever since I was little, I I have always been a writer and a reader.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the books that really captured my attention were the ones where um the protagonists were put in a situation that was removed from their everyday life, um, and where there was opportunity for adventure and intrigue and mystery and mischief and all of those things.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I time and time again, those were the books that I'm like, this is what I love.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I always knew I was going to write one.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I always knew, probably from the time I was six or seven, that I wanted to write a book whose adventure really centered around um a summer camp, just that idea of being away from your parents, you know, minimal parent parental supervision or adult supervision, um, places to explore, um, you know, mischief.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: I just knew that I wanted to do that, but I always enjoy a good mystery and a good murder.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: So put a little murder in there, and you've got just a perfect um place for a good story.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's really cool.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's really cool.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: How did you decide to structure your novel?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is a this is a topic of lots of debate and discussion within the fiction community.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Is how do you structure a story?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do you use the hero's journey?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Do you use the snowflake method?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Do you use three-act structure?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: How did you approach that question whenever, you know, you've got the story that you want to write?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Did you structure it in advance, or did you have kind of a general idea and you just went for it?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: What was how did you construct the story?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I feel like it naturally settled into the hero's journey structure.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if that's just because that's how I write, or just because that's how I'm used to almost every story going.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um but uh did you ever watch the show Lost?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: I did, I did.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, right.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: I like I remember this is when I started writing the book, was when Lost was was coming out, which kind of um shows how long this process has been for me from writing the book to getting it published.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I loved how they had, you know, this group of people, they're stuck on this island, and then they're showing all of these flashbacks, these other things that were happening to these people.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you're not exactly sure how it is related to the scenario that they're in right then, but you know that somehow it's gonna tie all together.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're kind of on pins and needles, like, how is this gonna happen?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: What's how are these people connected?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and what does it mean about the island?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so, just being so um enamored with this story, I was like, I want to write a book that's like that.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So um, in Called Upon My Story, there's three characters, completely different, unrelated, don't know each other.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one is a girl who is randomly sent to this summer camp in the middle of nowhere, um, super awkward girl, thrown into this whole new life.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then another storyline is a girl, a teenage girl, who has found herself in the terrible state of being pregnant and unwed.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's another storyline.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, well, how are those even connected at all?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then another storyline of a boy who has these really terrible anger issues with his dad, and he's working through these anger issues.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so as the story goes along, um, Caitlin, she's the girl that's at Summer Camp.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is her story basically, but every other chapter I interweave a little bit more of Ashley, the pregnant teen, or a little bit more of Parker, the Angry Kid.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: And suddenly their stories start pulling together in ways that are really surprising and hopefully um just really twisty turny for all of the readers.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and really that structure was inspired by that story of Lost back in the day.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the stories are completely different, but just that structure um was inspired by that.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: So when you you wrote the first draft, did you go back and like do a very different second draft?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or did you feel like with your first draft, that was pretty much set in terms of the way the stories interweave interweaved with each other and you know, plot points, story points, and things like that?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I wouldn't necessarily recommend this the way that I did it to another writer.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think that I will do it again.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I started the story knowing vaguely what I wanted to do and the structure that I wanted to have, and knowing where I wanted it to end up in the end, but really just writing as I went and letting the story develop as I went.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that made it exceptionally fun to write.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would write, write, write, and then I would go to bed and I would think about it and I'd have these ideas.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like I was on this journey with my characters at the same time.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it was fantastic that way.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, why it wasn't fantastic was yes, I had to go back and um put in lots of clues and I had to erase many, many chapters and um rewrite many, many chapters.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it was very fun, but it was not efficient at all.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it was it was just joy in the journey the whole time.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's super fun.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that's that is the process of creativity as a whole.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Is sometimes it feels really inefficient, but but that's that's the process, you know, unless you're gonna just crank out books like once a month.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: And lots of authors do that, you know.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: You kind of have your feelings.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: And bless them.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how they do it, but that's wonderful.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, I don't know either.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's that's crazy.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, special talent.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, what did what do you feel like um going with a traditional publisher brought to the mix that maybe self-publishing didn't, because we have so many publishing options today.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what are some of the benefits that that you have working with a company like Morgan James that you wouldn't have otherwise?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, great question.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it is extra nice to have someone holding my hand through the process, telling me, okay, this is the next step.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now we need to do this, now we need to do this.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then also giving that like for for marketing purposes, this is what you need to do.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um so I think when you're self-publishing, and there's so many benefits to doing it that way as well, um, you're kind of in it alone.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a very, very much a trial and error type of situation.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you're throwing a lot of money at it.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's totally fine for a quality product.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: But um yeah, so it's I think it's just different.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're just having someone help you and give you that little extra um bit of encouragement.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then also it's really nice to know that they have the ear of um like the Barnes and Nobles and they know how to maneuver through Amazon and they know how to have these connections.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's very helpful.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, totally, totally.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know the book has not officially released yet.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: That happens in March, correct?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: So right now I do I do have a bunch of copies that I am selling, but as far as it going to Barnes and Noble and Amazon and all the booksellers, that's happening in March.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you are excited about going to a Barnes and Noble and seeing your book there on the shelf, I imagine.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, there will be an Instagram live for sure of me probably crying and jumping up and down.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm very excited for that day.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's been a dream of mine since I was just teeny tiny.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: So um to see that happening now is is it's it's going to be a big deal for me.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: My wife worked at Barnes Noble for 10 years.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: She started out, um, I forget what her title was starting out, but then she wound up as a manager.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it was so interesting, you know, to see like the new releases and how they would those would come into the store in the back and they would unpack those and um just the excitement of new books constantly.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really excited that you're gonna get to experience that here in just a few months.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Woohoo!
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: What are you hoping that readers will come away with when they finish called upon?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Are you obviously you want them to be entertained?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Is there any sort of uh specific message or any kind of um major takeaway that you have in mind that you want them to feel or think?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, 100%.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think writing for young adults is is a privilege, and there's responsibility there as well, because um it's a time where everything feels so big and so hard, and there's so many important life decisions that are being made.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and as we write these young adult books, we have a responsibility to really speak to their heart and help guide them through these times, which are they're just it's just rough.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: No matter who you are, no matter bizarre, bizarre.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's exactly it's just a hard time.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: So um I had a specific message when I was writing this book.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was actually writing it a lot for 13-year-old Bethany.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the message that I really wanted to get through was one of self-worth.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: What does it mean to be of worth and to have value?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: So um, my main character, Caitlin, she's kind of a social outcast at the beginning.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: She doesn't fit in in high school, she's bullied and um just has low self-esteem.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: She goes to summer camp and suddenly she's finding herself with friends.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: She's finding that people actually kind of like her, and there's a boy that has a crush on her, and suddenly she's kind of changing how she feels about herself, dependent on how other people are feeling about her, right?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, then bad things start happening at camp or weird things, I should say weird things.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: For example, some of the camp counselors are kind of creepy, they have these gray, creepy eyes.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's a she kind of comes to discover that she's being watched.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a surveillance system, and they're they're tracking what she's doing.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: They're reading her journal entries, they're they're reading her letters from home, and vice versa.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um, things are kind of starting to get a little bit fishy.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then suddenly some campers get sick and then they disappear quietly into the night.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Caitlin, she's willing to overlook all these weird things because for the first time in a long time, she is having friends and she's feeling good about herself and she's excited until she's the next camper that starts feeling sick.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, oh no, okay, maybe I have to solve this mystery before I'm the next camper to disappear.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: So the book is called Called Upon.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason is because she is called upon.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: I will not tell you what that means.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: You'll have to read the book to find out.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Don't reveal the secrets.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: But when she is called upon, she is given a whole completely different narrative about herself.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so she, you know, she's swinging back and forth.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm awesome, I'm terrible, people like me, they don't.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that really puts forth the question like, what is it that makes you of worth?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Is it if um other people say you're of worth?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is it if you feel like you're of worth?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: And the message that I want to get to across to these young adults is you are of worth simply by being a person, by being a human, by being a child of God.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: And what other people think and even what you think about yourself is really irrelevant to what your worth actually is.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: And once we realize what our worth is, um understanding what our potential to do is and what we can teach other people and how we can help other people with our understanding of our worth.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yes, uh that was a really long answer to your question, but that was the bigger purpose of my book.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: But don't you think that that's a message that not just young adults need to hear, but adults as well, particularly adults doing creative work.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of the biggest things that I see, and of course, this podcast is intended for for writers and creative types and artists.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Man, there's a lot of career types out there who uh don't feel very valued.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they they wonder if they are serving a purpose here on earth.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: They're wondering if their writing, if their art means anything to anybody.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I love this message because I can imagine, you know, as a 13-year-old yourself, and I certainly felt this way, you know, way back when that man, I I wish somebody would have come along more often and told me that.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, I had wonderful parents and a wonderful family, but we all need to hear that all the time.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm really glad you found a way to weave that into your story.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: And also it's nice to sometimes get that message from not your parent or not your um church leader or even your teacher, like just to be reading it and getting it in a very gentle, non-preachy way through a really cool story.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yes, like what you were saying too, I do think that um this book was written as for for the teen audience, but I would hope that it is something that adults would like to read as well and have lots of laughs about and remember how we did this and how we felt this way, but then also maybe problem solve their own problems.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Cause yeah, we're all we're all figuring it out and we're all um constantly learning what our value is and and um reinventing ourselves.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: I do want to want to dig into your process for writing the book a little bit more because I know a lot of people are curious about that.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what was your process for writing your first draft?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Did you had have a specific time of day where you would like get up and you would write a certain amount of words or a certain chapter, or how did that process unfold for you getting that first really, really critical draft done?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so when I started this book, I had babies, like I had two, like a toddler and um like a just a baby.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: And like so basically during the day, that's my hands were full with that.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Second my husband got home from work, handed him off, and he said, I will see you later.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I went to the basement and just wrote and wrote and wrote.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for me, I was very, I was very fortunate in that there was just so much joy in the process.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it did not necessarily feel like, oh, I've got to get a certain amount of words.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to go down and create and um have this story unfold.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: However, I find that um as I continue to write different stories and blog posts or um write whatever I I want to write, I do have to really sit down and say that okay, this is my writing time and this is not my surfing the internet time, which is I think probably my worst habit, I think, is just getting to the fun to surf the internet.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know it is.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And but then like half an hour later, you're like full of, you know, what everyone in your social network is doing, but you have not done a thing.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, so like really being like, okay, I am not going to get on Instagram right now or Facebook or um the news or just whatever is distracting, and I'm going to just focus.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I liked I man, I it must have been one of your recent podcasts.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even remember the method you were saying, but it was like 29 minutes of writing and then five minutes of a break.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's such a good idea.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: So doing something like that, I think would be really beneficial for me in the future.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: One thing that you that you mentioned um a couple minutes ago was, you know, as you're you're thinking through the story, you go to bed at night and you're thinking about the book and what would the characters do, and you're taking this journey along with them.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Something I've heard novelists talk about before, and I'm wondering if this is your experience as well, is that at some point when you get into writing it, the characters are almost dictating the story to you in a way, where the the characters are the ones that are determining the story, as opposed to you having to craft the story uh for the characters.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was that true in your experience at all?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, this was a twisty turny book.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, where you think it is gonna go, it doesn't go, it goes some somewhere completely different, and those twists happened to me too.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be laying there and it would just be like, Oh, this happened, like and just out of nowhere.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, of course it does.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm having that experience that I'm hoping my readers are also having.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like, yeah, like those things and my characters sometimes wrote themselves.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, in a sense, you had an ending in mind, but you didn't necessarily know every step to take to get there.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: That that was kind of for the characters to decide as you developed them.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: That, see, that I think that insight is so helpful.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's helpful to me because I'm right now I'm actually working on my next book, which is a parable type of a story.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um kind of like a business parable.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: It it's it's a business parable, except it's more of a creative parable, parable about writing about uh really what it is is these four concepts that I'm talking about on my on this podcast.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Of um, what are the four concepts?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: The one who came up with them.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: What are they?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they're uh creativity, consistency, courage, and connection.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I really wanted to write a story.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I I didn't just want to write it like another nonfiction book about here's the four principles of writing, blah, blah, blah, because that's not very interesting.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe helpful, but it's just it's not compelling enough for me to want to write a whole book about it.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, why not write a story about it, like a teaching story?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm wrestling a little bit with how do I construct this?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that piece of insight is I think you just saved my whole writing process.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: So that's very helpful.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I and that compliment goes back at you too, because um, so many of the insights that I have heard listening to your podcast have been directly relevant to me, and I'm just grateful for that.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you, Kent.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Cool, totally my pleasure, totally my pleasure, and my son's pleasure because he gets to hear me sometimes start the same podcast four or five times.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I messed up, I gotta restart it.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: It happened last night.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: If I in fact, I'm I'm recording a show about perfectionism, and I'm like, I gotta restart it because I didn't do it perfect, you know how we're I'm like that too.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now, one thing I want to ask, and I think this will be helpful for listeners to hear your perspective on this.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: How do you measure success with this book?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: How do you know when it is successful?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what kind of metrics in your mind or what what what kinds of things will help you to feel like, okay, this book was successful?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I guess there's all sorts of metrics.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I will tell you the most recent one that was the most recent pat on the back that I got about this and it was very much telling as to why I wrote the book.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I had a really soft launch um just for my personal copies, where I invited um some just people who have read the book to come and get it signed.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was an outdoor event.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like COVID safe or as safe as we can be.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: But so I had this line of people coming through and I would sign their book.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um, this one girl came through, she was 12.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'd never met her before.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Her name is Lainey.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she had read the book, and she looked at me with just the sweetest, most excited eyes, and she said, This was my favorite book.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: And this book was meaningful to me because of this, this, and this.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, I am reading it for the second time, and I plan on reading it again after that.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I wasn't prepared for that compliment, especially from a young girl, but I I just listened to it and I'm like, there, that's why, that's why I did it.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm hoping that that is another 13-year-old boy, a 14-year-old boy, a mom who's raising their kids and wants to read a story with them that will um resonate with both of them.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, that is 100% why I do what I do.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if I could have even said that before she said that, that that was the reason why.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: But afterwards I'm like, exactly, that is exactly why.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: But that's what can happen when we put our stuff out there.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we we don't know the results of what's gonna happen when we publish whatever way we choose to publish, but cool things happen whenever you put your work out there, and even though we don't know what those things are gonna be, so you can't control all that.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing that we really control is being obedient to that call to write.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: And when we do that, then weird, wild stuff, you know, as Johnny Carson would say, uh, half of my listeners don't even know who that is, but because they're I know I know, I know.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's good, that's good.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: I love Johnny, but um, he would often use that phrase, you know, weird, wild stuff.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it does, you know, things happen and whatever you just put your work out there.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, man, that is such a great metric of success.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: It changed somebody's life and it helped them maybe at a critical point or juncture in their life or made them think about something.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: And what better compliment can we really have as writers than to know that we changed somebody's life in some way?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, and also just being a writer and writing something that is personal.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I felt like I very much related to my main character, and and uh as I was 13, feeling awkward and not sure where I fit in.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, putting that out there and any form of writing, whether it's fiction, nonfiction, whatever, it's a super vulnerable feeling.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Your words and the way you construct them and your emotions, it's it's personal and it's vulnerable and it's emotional.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so um receiving that validation and also that it hit inside someone in their vulnerable place felt very good and validating and important.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely love that.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: For those who are listening to this and and they're thinking about the book that they want to write, but they haven't done it yet, or maybe they're scared to.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any advice for them based on your experience writing this book?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, I guess just the things that we talked about, but um definitely writing from your heart and knowing that if it's um exciting and interesting to you, it will be exciting and interesting to those reading it.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: And if it is emotional and emotionally honest, it will also feel that way to your readers and it will hit them in an emotional place.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Man, I love that.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: So do it.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, so go at it from those places.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this is probably the wrong time to ask you this because you're right in the middle of launching this book.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: But but uh what's what's next for you in the next two or three years in terms of writing?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do is this gonna be the first in a series, or maybe you've got some other books planned as well?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, yeah, no, hopefully.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I left this book um with a good conclusion, but also an opening so that if if it hits and people want more, there will be more there.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: I have the story in my head.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm also writing other books right now that I'm very excited about.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope to get those out.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, also just being inspired talking to you and listening to your podcast, like how neat would it be to also have a podcast that's encouraging other people in their writing journey journey, especially young adults who want to write or adults who want to write young adult literature, um, and really sharing my love of writing that way.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I want to encourage you to do a podcast.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I tell I tell a lot of people that podcasting is awesome because you get to be in people's heads for sometimes hours at a time if they've binge, you know, a bunch of episodes of your show.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: And right what what what a cool place to be is literally your voice is inside people's heads.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: They're listening to you to your story, your emotions, your insights about whatever, your failures and learning from them and everything.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think you'd be a phenomenal podcaster.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: I really encouraging and I will do it.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now, as we wrap this up, you mentioned that uh there was something you wanted to share with our listeners related to your book, correct?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would love to offer um the listeners a very specific, um, good um a good discount on this book if they that's something that they'd be interested in reading or um having their kids read um or reading together with their kids or book clubs, all of those things.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I have a discount code.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: If you go to my website at stephanie.com and you can learn more about the book.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can also read some blog posts that I've written.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but if you purchase the book there, go ahead and use the coupon code Riders40 for a 40% discount.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that will include a discount on shipping as well.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome, fantastic.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Also, also for your uh your readers, I'll I'll go ahead and email them some discussion questions so they can go over as well when they're reading the book.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, perfect.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you can hear this, but there's a couple of big trucks outside my window.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I've got my window open.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: So sorry for the disturbance of huge trucks rolling down.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: They're rolling down their windows.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, what was that promotion code?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: What was that, dude?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm looking at the Spider 40.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty sure the guys driving these trucks don't read young adult fiction, but maybe not.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna try.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: You you never know.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: That is one thing.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: You never know.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: People surprised you never ever know what kind of stuff people are gonna be interested in.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: You would be really surprised.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: My wife did speaking of speaking of that, my wife caught me watching part of a Hallmark movie yesterday.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I I pretended like I was just passing through the living room, but in reality, I had been standing there for like 10 minutes.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: She had this, it got you.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was it does, and I'm like, you know, that's a testament to their incredible storytelling abilities.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's every story on a Hallmark is exactly the same, but they know their audience so well and they construct their stories so tightly, you cannot help but get sucked into them.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they have a very loyal viewership with those hallmark.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: They are, they are, and I I can admit that as a man.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: I feel yeah, I feel comfortable enough in my own masculinity to admit that I did watch a hallmark movie.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: So now, did you get emotional?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, I didn't I didn't.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: I really didn't.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Bethany, thank you so much for doing this interview.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: This has been a blast.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: You've inspired me.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: I've learned a bunch of stuff.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: I took a lot of notes, and I know that our listeners are going to be inspired as well.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for having me on, and that was really fun.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I really appreciate it.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Kent.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Bethany.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: It was a blast talking with her, and one of my very favorite topics in the world is storytelling.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, of course, this was a major treat for me.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: I would say my biggest takeaway from this conversation was just the value of pressing on when you're in the middle of a writing project.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Bethany mentioned that this book took her a number of years to write, and honestly, that's not that unusual.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's really, really common to hear about writers who took years to write a book.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've been working on a book for a long time, I encourage you to keep pressing on.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Don't give up.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: Just keep working away until that thing is done.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be like so many other writers and give up halfway through.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: I promise, my friend, that you have got this.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can absolutely do it.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want to write a book but you haven't started it yet, just know that the process does take time.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: It takes time and energy.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, sometimes it can take you a while to get there, but that's okay.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: You can do it.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: You can press on.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: And Bethany is a living example of somebody who kept pressing on and she finally got it done.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I want to give a massive thank you to my special guest today, Bethany Lee.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure to let her know how much you enjoyed this interview by giving her a shout-out on Instagram at BethanyRLee81.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: And make sure to visit her website, BethanyLee.com.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when you go to her website and you buy her book called Upon, make sure to use the coupon code Writers40, that's writers with an S40, to get 40% off your total purchase, including shipping and handling, which is a pretty cool offer.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks so much, my friend, for listening to the Daily Writer Podcast.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: I have one more request of you, and that is if you could leave us a review in iTunes.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: It helps others too discover the show, and it really helps us to get the word out about this podcast.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: And also, if you know of anybody who would enjoy these episodes, please go ahead and share it with them.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Your one act of generosity might just change their life.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: As always, remember that your writing has the power to change lives.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'll see you in the next episode.