Latest / Reasonably Happy with Paul Ollinger / TRIGGERnometry's Francis Foster on Teaching, Comedy, and Why the U.K. is Fucked

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TRIGGERnometry's Francis Foster on Teaching, Comedy, and Why the U.K. is Fucked · Reasonably Happy with Paul Ollinger

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Hey, everybody.
0:00
SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to another episode of Reasonably Happy.
0:04
SPEAKER_01: The wholly owned subsidiary of Reasonably Happy is called Five Questions.
0:09
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0:11
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0:12
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0:13
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0:15
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0:27
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0:32
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0:35
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0:40
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0:45
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1:00
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1:04
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1:07
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1:12
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1:30
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1:33
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1:36
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1:40
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1:45
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1:49
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1:51
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1:54
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1:58
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2:22
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2:25
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2:26
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2:26
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2:31
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2:36
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2:37
SPEAKER_01: jennifer why'd you do it wasn't fair anyway we're gonna have more full -length
2:41
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2:42
SPEAKER_01: happy coming up i've got justin bayer the author of the house of fidelity
2:46
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2:48
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2:52
SPEAKER_01: Jeff Roth,
2:53
SPEAKER_01: who is my second Nobel Prize winner that I've interviewed on this series of podcasts
2:58
SPEAKER_01: in the past seven years.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: He's a professor of economics at Stanford, and he's got a new book out called Moral Economics.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to have author Gad Saad, going to talk
3:07
SPEAKER_01: to him tomorrow.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: He is the author of a book called Suicidal Empathy, and that'll be out in a few weeks.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: So anyway, lots of great stuff.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: All right, that's it.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: Please enjoy this conversation with Francis Foster.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: All right, well, we will get started here.
3:21
SPEAKER_02: Ladies and gentlemen, thanks for joining us.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: on this friday morning slash afternoon in london uh my name is paul ollinger i'm
3:27
SPEAKER_02: a new york city
3:28
SPEAKER_02: based comedian and podcaster my show is called reasonably happy um i am thrilled to be speaking
3:35
SPEAKER_02: to today's guest who is a comedian he's the co-host of the trigonometry podcast author
3:40
SPEAKER_02: of a great new book called uneducated my life as a teacher and why you should never become one
3:46
SPEAKER_02: He is a self-described John Oliver with brain damage, a Latino with ADHD.
3:51
SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Francis Foster.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure to be here, Paul.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: Really is, mate.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: Loving it.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: And I love the fact that it's a Substack podcast.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of fun.
4:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Substack's doing cool stuff on the live stream,
4:05
SPEAKER_02: and it's connecting people in a different way than Instagram does.
4:09
SPEAKER_02: It's sort of Instagram with a purpose, I guess.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: It's a really good fit for your audience.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: So congratulations on the book.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: You worked really hard on it.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: I listened to it.
4:20
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for reading it.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: I like when I hear an author reading with the emotion and the
4:25
SPEAKER_02: the the emotional familiarity with the with the material and you know the title of
4:31
SPEAKER_02: the book is provocative uneducated my life as a teacher
4:34
SPEAKER_02: and why you should never become one so the first question is is
4:37
SPEAKER_02: that titled tongue-in-cheek or do you really mean that it's both tongue-in-cheek
4:43
SPEAKER_00: and actually like a lot of jokes there is a kernel of truth there because
4:47
SPEAKER_00: the reality is it is a terrible terrible job
4:52
SPEAKER_00: which will leave you completely drained angry broken burnt out and unlike you hear
5:01
SPEAKER_00: the story
5:01
SPEAKER_00: of bankers getting burnt out finance city bros they're like I was totally burnt out
5:06
SPEAKER_00: you're like yeah maybe you've got a couple of million quid
5:08
SPEAKER_00: in your bank account I'd take that with teaching you merely have
5:12
SPEAKER_00: an overdraft that's it
5:17
SPEAKER_01: Well, the stories are both heartwarming and terrifying.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: You know, how did you strike the balance?
5:23
SPEAKER_02: And it sounds like you're conflicted on the whole experience.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, how did I strike a balance?
5:29
SPEAKER_00: I guess I'm a huge fan of Anthony Bourdain Oh yeah Yeah,
5:35
SPEAKER_00: huge fan And when he wrote Kitchen Confidential,
5:37
SPEAKER_00: which is one of my favourite books And the book
5:41
SPEAKER_00: that essentially completely transformed his life And turned him from a guy
5:47
SPEAKER_00: who worked in a kitchen And was a drug addict at many points in his life To one of
5:53
SPEAKER_00: the most celebrated authors and TV hosts and whatever else
5:58
SPEAKER_00: and in the book Kitchen Confidential he said the words I didn't want to write
6:04
SPEAKER_00: the best book about cooking I wanted to write the most honest book
6:08
SPEAKER_00: and that's what I wanted to do with my book I wanted it
6:12
SPEAKER_00: to be 100% honest I wanted it to be so that people would open the book
6:18
SPEAKER_00: and they would get the plain awful terrible unvarnished truth of what it means to be
6:26
SPEAKER_00: a teacher
6:28
SPEAKER_02: So if you read this book and you're still inspired to be
6:32
SPEAKER_02: a teacher I haven't done my job I failed Well it's like we're both comedians and
6:42
SPEAKER_02: when people tell me they want to do comedy I say well I hope
6:45
SPEAKER_02: the first time you go out that you bomb I want you to bomb terribly because
6:49
SPEAKER_02: if you bomb terribly and you still want to do it well good
6:53
SPEAKER_02: for you you're condemned you've got the disease
6:58
SPEAKER_02: So and if you bomb you don't want to do it you just saved yourself an awful lot
7:01
SPEAKER_00: of time and and and you've saved yourself a hell of a lot
7:08
SPEAKER_00: of personal humiliation yeah I remember I've you know you just I remember once
7:17
SPEAKER_00: I was doing the open mics and I had this run of quite good gigs
7:21
SPEAKER_00: and you know how volatile basically you do the open mics for everybody watching
7:25
SPEAKER_00: when you're at the beginning of your career and I had this run of good gigs and I
7:30
SPEAKER_00: to put it mildly got above my station so I invited some friends to come
7:36
SPEAKER_00: and watch me do this gig and the gig was terrible it was sparsely attended
7:43
SPEAKER_00: And everybody who was on with me was much,
7:46
SPEAKER_00: much more experienced,
7:48
SPEAKER_00: many of whom have gone on to do very well in the UK comedy scene,
7:51
SPEAKER_00: the UK television scene.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: And they all went up, did okay.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: I went up and died so hard.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: So hard.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: I remember my friend looking at my other friend and whispering to him the words,
8:12
SPEAKER_00: say something nice to Francis.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: How'd that feel?
8:17
SPEAKER_00: Look, it was what, 16 years ago and I still remember it?
8:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:23
SPEAKER_02: It's like after a gig they come up and some stranger tells you, wow, that takes courage.
8:28
SPEAKER_02: And you're like, that's not the feedback I'm looking for.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: No, no.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: No, you don't want that.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: You don't want courage.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: Look, if you're brave, it doesn't necessarily mean you're competent.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: That's the problem.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: That's the problem.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: So no, it's actually teaching and comedy are very similar.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: You basically got a group of people in a room who don't want to be there.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: You're talking at them.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: All they want to do is stop listening to you and talk to their friends.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: And occasionally they're going to look at the clock and wait for the break.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:03
SPEAKER_02: All right, let's move on to the World Cup.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: And also, hello, Anthony, Valerie, and Brian.
9:07
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for joining.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: All right,
9:10
SPEAKER_02: so a big thing,
9:12
SPEAKER_02: Francis, on social media for the past two weeks, I assume you've seen this.
9:16
SPEAKER_02: If you haven't, let me know.
9:17
SPEAKER_02: But it's been Europeans driving around the United States,
9:20
SPEAKER_02: like de Tocqueville and rented Camrys,
9:23
SPEAKER_02: and they're posting about our institutions like Waffle House and Chick-fil-A
9:28
SPEAKER_02: and Buc-ee's with great glee.
9:29
SPEAKER_02: You haven't seen this?
9:32
SPEAKER_00: No I haven't but I tell you what I've gigged a lot in Texas in Austin and all
9:38
SPEAKER_00: over I love Texas by the way I love Buc-ee's
9:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm not even it's not even ironic I think it's I think it's a beautiful institution
9:50
SPEAKER_00: and actually the fact that Bucky's is now talking about branching out
9:53
SPEAKER_00: to different states I think is awful Bucky's is Texan I've actually in my flat got
10:00
SPEAKER_00: a Bucky's cap on a particularly hot day I walk around my London in
10:05
SPEAKER_00: and I always get stopped at least once by someone going dude why have you got
10:10
SPEAKER_00: a Bucky's cap
10:13
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: It's beautiful.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: It's Walmart with like a cute mascot.
10:18
SPEAKER_02: It's a beautiful thing.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: It's basically a petrol station that's just got ideas above its station
10:27
SPEAKER_00: and it just turned into this huge thing.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: It's an 8,000 square foot state fair at a gas station.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah And it's incredible And it's absolutely incredible And the people you see
10:43
SPEAKER_00: in Buc-ee's You see nowhere else Hopefully God bless them God bless them What do you
10:50
SPEAKER_02: think that tells you about the difference between the United States
10:53
SPEAKER_02: and Europe right now?
10:56
SPEAKER_00: Ah The United States and Europe So I can't really talk for Europe I'll talk
11:00
SPEAKER_00: for my country Because obviously So what does he say about the difference between
11:05
SPEAKER_00: the United States?
11:06
SPEAKER_00: You know what I love about the States, man?
11:08
SPEAKER_00: It's like, you're just so optimistic.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, nobody in Europe has the same levels of optimism as the average American.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: Because if they did, you would be diagnosed with some kind of mental illness over here.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you are doing far better than we are.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: We in the UK have now started a debate about whether we should have air conditioning.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: That's where we are And Americans come over here
11:40
SPEAKER_00: And they can't believe We don't have air conditioning Oh I know I was in
11:47
SPEAKER_02: I was in Switzerland two summers ago and we were staying at a plenty nice hotel
11:53
SPEAKER_02: and it was you know they kept it at I don't know 84 degrees Fahrenheit or
11:57
SPEAKER_02: so Zurich is surprisingly warm I had never been there and not during the summer
12:01
SPEAKER_02: of course it's it was hotter than hell and we called the front desk
12:05
SPEAKER_02: and like well they Americans do like their air conditioning I'm like yeah
12:08
SPEAKER_02: because I like comfortable
12:11
SPEAKER_00: Americans do like their air conditioning She said that She said
12:14
SPEAKER_00: that Do you know we're talking about banning air conditioning in the UK because
12:18
SPEAKER_00: of climate change Mm-hmm Or just not banning but putting certain restrictions
12:24
SPEAKER_00: on it It's like it's the most ridiculous retarded thing I could ever expect We're
12:31
SPEAKER_00: so dumb in this country We think
12:33
SPEAKER_00: if we don't have air conditioning we're gonna stop climate change I'm like come on
12:38
SPEAKER_02: That'll show the Chinese,
12:40
SPEAKER_02: that'll show them Yeah,
12:42
SPEAKER_00: it's like the empire's gone,
12:43
SPEAKER_00: mate It's done,
12:45
SPEAKER_00: it's over No one cares about you,
12:47
SPEAKER_02: just move on Well, okay,
12:50
SPEAKER_02: that takes me to actually my fifth question So we'll circle back to the other ones
12:54
SPEAKER_02: In your bio you have laughing while the empire collapses What's going on in the UK
13:00
SPEAKER_02: that the average American probably doesn't know about?
13:04
SPEAKER_00: This is sort of meant to be a comedy podcast, isn't it, mate?
13:07
SPEAKER_02: No we're no this is a real life what's happening kind of thing okay all right
13:11
SPEAKER_00: so I was at a party last night and this guy came up
13:16
SPEAKER_00: to me uh he goes oh I'll watch your show mate I'll watch your shows
13:19
SPEAKER_00: and I'm like all right here we go and he goes okay you're a bit of
13:24
SPEAKER_00: an enigma whenever anybody says that to you it's never a compliment I'm like
13:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm like okay right he goes so tell me what you think about the UK and I told him
13:37
SPEAKER_00: and he got very upset so what's happening paul is we are in an economic crisis we're
13:43
SPEAKER_00: in a housing crisis we're in an immigration crisis we're in a political crisis we're
13:48
SPEAKER_00: in a societal crisis we're in a cultural crisis we are totally
13:52
SPEAKER_00: and utterly fucked that's what's going on in the UK
13:58
SPEAKER_00: We are in such a bad place We're in a terrible place And it's to the point
14:04
SPEAKER_00: where I don't think people understand just how bad it is One of the wonderful things
14:10
SPEAKER_00: about trigonometry is I get to speak to people who are experts in their field both
14:16
SPEAKER_00: on and off camera
14:18
SPEAKER_00: and when you talk to these people like I've got a good mate of mine who runs
14:23
SPEAKER_00: a hedge fund like working blue collar guy made good come came from a poor background
14:28
SPEAKER_00: or just a humble background rather not poor but a humble background
14:31
SPEAKER_00: and he's done very well for himself and occasionally we go for dinner and I go
14:36
SPEAKER_00: to him like what's going on here what's going on there and he
14:42
SPEAKER_00: Economically we I said to him this is how I see it Mike I went I see the UK
14:48
SPEAKER_00: as being like an alcoholic it's closing time at the bar we've got 20 quid
14:53
SPEAKER_00: in our pocket it's 20 pounds that's the last 20 pounds that we have
14:58
SPEAKER_00: but we think we're okay because it's closing time and we can afford another pint
15:04
SPEAKER_00: And he goes to me,
15:05
SPEAKER_00: that's spot on I would only change one thing with this metaphor And I said,
15:10
SPEAKER_00: Mike, what's that?
15:12
SPEAKER_00: And he went, we borrowed that 20 quid That's where we are
15:20
SPEAKER_02: So people think,
15:21
SPEAKER_02: you know,
15:22
SPEAKER_02: there's a statistic that's been out recently that,
15:24
SPEAKER_02: you know,
15:24
SPEAKER_02: if the UK were a united,
15:27
SPEAKER_02: one of the states, it would be the 51st state from an economic perspective.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: Less than Mississippi or Arkansas or any of the sort of lower performing economic states.
15:38
SPEAKER_02: And that surprises people.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: But it shouldn't surprise people because you come over here and the quality and
15:44
SPEAKER_00: the standard of living is far inferior to the United States.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: It's far inferior If we took trigonometry to the states Which we're not going to But
15:57
SPEAKER_00: if we did We would double our salaries pretty much We would The advertising revenue
16:04
SPEAKER_00: The YouTube revenue Everything would go up
16:08
SPEAKER_00: Because you are doing much better as a society than we are
16:12
SPEAKER_00: And your economy is stronger And you have low taxation Comparatively compared to
16:19
SPEAKER_00: the UK at least And you're far more libertarian It's far easier to set up
16:22
SPEAKER_00: a business Register a business Be entrepreneurial We strangle all of these things in
16:29
SPEAKER_00: the UK
16:31
SPEAKER_02: Do you think,
16:31
SPEAKER_02: so your prime minister is stepping down,
16:34
SPEAKER_02: is a change at the top of the coalition going to change anything in the near term?
16:41
SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
16:42
SPEAKER_00: it's more of the same It's just more of the same It's not going to, look,
16:49
SPEAKER_00: if you don't change course,
16:51
SPEAKER_00: you're still going to hit the iceberg And we haven't changed course,
16:55
SPEAKER_00: it doesn't matter who the captain is
16:58
SPEAKER_00: if you've got the same captain
16:59
SPEAKER_00: but he's not changing course well you're screwed either way we've got Andy Burnham
17:05
SPEAKER_00: for those of you who aren't in the UK is a vibes politician he's
17:10
SPEAKER_00: a good looking guy he says
17:12
SPEAKER_00: the right things he's quite funny you know he dresses well you know he talks about
17:18
SPEAKER_02: the stone roses and a way I love the stone roses
17:22
SPEAKER_00: they're great well they had one good album one great no that's unfair one great
17:27
SPEAKER_00: album yeah the other album was yeah but the first album was a non-deniable work
17:33
SPEAKER_00: of genius so yeah so that's where we are that's where we are
17:37
SPEAKER_00: but we're not gonna we're not gonna change course we're not gonna do anything
17:40
SPEAKER_00: drastically different so as a result it's just gonna get worse and worse and worse
17:47
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so in your book,
17:49
SPEAKER_02: Uneducated,
17:50
SPEAKER_02: that just came out and it's worth a read for everybody who cares about education
17:54
SPEAKER_02: and wants to read a very fun coming-of-age story for a young man in the classroom,
18:00
SPEAKER_02: you barely mentioned politics other than sort of the administrative world
18:06
SPEAKER_02: of education management.
18:09
SPEAKER_02: So where did trigonometry start and why did it strike a nerve with so many people?
18:15
SPEAKER_00: Trigonometry started in 2018 it was started
18:17
SPEAKER_00: by two stand-up comedians two no-name stand-up comedians at the time
18:22
SPEAKER_00: who were established on the comedy circuit and were gigging
18:25
SPEAKER_00: but we weren't big names we couldn't do big tour shows all the rest
18:29
SPEAKER_00: of it it was myself and Constantine Kissin and in 2016 we had Brexit where we had
18:36
SPEAKER_00: a referendum in the UK and by the ratio of 40 to 58 sorry 52 to 48
18:44
SPEAKER_00: We voted to leave the European Union.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: Now, for context, I voted remain, so did Constantine.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: And then what we saw,
18:53
SPEAKER_00: both of us, was a society that lost its mind, that went absolutely insane, that
19:05
SPEAKER_00: It became so angry,
19:07
SPEAKER_00: so divisive,
19:08
SPEAKER_00: so vitriolic And people on the Remain side,
19:11
SPEAKER_00: the people who I were my friends at the time I saw them behave in ways
19:16
SPEAKER_00: that was quite frankly unforgivable They would call Brexit voters thick, stupid,
19:22
SPEAKER_00: racist There was this caricature portrayed of Brexiteers as stupid,
19:28
SPEAKER_00: thick, angry, white, working class people
19:33
SPEAKER_00: and they couldn't be trusted and they were so thick and racist
19:37
SPEAKER_00: that they'd been manipulated by people on the Brexit side of the argument.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: That's what the narrative was.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: We're familiar with that division here in the States as well.
19:50
SPEAKER_02: The deplorable moniker stuck for a while, you know?
19:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course it did.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: Of course it did.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: So what happened is...
20:01
SPEAKER_00: We then became more and more divided And bear in mind,
20:04
SPEAKER_00: England wasn't a divided country From what I'd seen Growing up in England
20:10
SPEAKER_00: as I had been So people became more angry,
20:14
SPEAKER_00: more divided And as a result of that, things were really, really very toxic
20:21
SPEAKER_00: And we started trigonometry because we were interested
20:25
SPEAKER_00: to find out just exactly what's going on Why is everyone so angry?
20:29
SPEAKER_00: Why did people vote Brexit?
20:31
SPEAKER_00: Why are people angry that people voted Brexit?
20:34
SPEAKER_00: Why are they trying to stop Brexit from happening?
20:37
SPEAKER_00: And that's how it began Why did it strike a nerve?
20:44
SPEAKER_00: I think it struck a nerve because, look, nature abhors the vacuum
20:51
SPEAKER_00: And it will fill When you have a vacuum
20:55
SPEAKER_00: in nature It will be filled It will get filled Just like in the free markets And
21:02
SPEAKER_00: the reason it was successful Is very simple People felt unable And too scared
21:09
SPEAKER_00: to have An honest conversation About
21:16
SPEAKER_00: these subjects whether it's Brexit whether it was trans at the time well trans came
21:22
SPEAKER_00: a little bit later but Brexit what immigration at
21:29
SPEAKER_00: the time there was feminism was very very you know big on
21:33
SPEAKER_00: the agenda feminism is feminism a good thing or a bad thing
21:37
SPEAKER_00: for women what does feminism mean
21:42
SPEAKER_00: All of these things, people,
21:43
SPEAKER_00: all of these topics,
21:44
SPEAKER_00: people were scared to have a conversation and they were scared to be honest.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: So when you had these two comedians come along and host a conversation,
21:53
SPEAKER_00: people were blown away by it because we lived and we still live in this same country
21:59
SPEAKER_00: to a degree.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: We lived in a country where people were too scared to voice their opinions and
22:05
SPEAKER_00: to have a free, honest and open conversation.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: And people were looking, people were hungry for honest dialogue.
22:13
SPEAKER_02: I remember during those times just kind of going like,
22:16
SPEAKER_02: you know, what I'm seeing on the news doesn't feel right to me.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: I don't feel like I'm a racist.
22:22
SPEAKER_02: Why does the whole media seem to want to believe that I am?
22:26
SPEAKER_02: And then when people would come on and actually say,
22:29
SPEAKER_02: you know,
22:30
SPEAKER_02: whisper quietly,
22:31
SPEAKER_02: you know,
22:31
SPEAKER_02: so other comics in the green room wouldn't hear them,
22:33
SPEAKER_02: you go, oh, we can have this conversation.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: And it was refreshing.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah,
22:38
SPEAKER_00: and what we wanted to do at Trigonometry,
22:41
SPEAKER_00: one of the important things is to model polite disagreement.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: How can you disagree with someone and not throw a tantrum,
22:50
SPEAKER_00: not scream,
22:51
SPEAKER_00: not shout,
22:52
SPEAKER_00: not hurl epithets at them,
22:54
SPEAKER_00: but just actually have a civil disagreement about an issue?
23:01
SPEAKER_00: And it seemed like we had lost the ability to do that And I think one of the reasons
23:06
SPEAKER_00: that trigonometry is
23:07
SPEAKER_00: so successful Is we don't just get people We don't just get people on who are on
23:14
SPEAKER_00: the right We get people on the left We've had Hassan Piker Cenk Uyghur Mehdi Hassan
23:22
SPEAKER_00: As well as you people on the UK left Stephen Frye
23:27
SPEAKER_00: Because we want to have the conversation It's important
23:33
SPEAKER_00: Because Charlie Kirk said this You know,
23:35
SPEAKER_00: when people stop talking That's when you reach for the gun
23:38
SPEAKER_00: And it's true Prophetic Unfortunately, yeah
23:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so,
23:46
SPEAKER_02: and for your troubles,
23:47
SPEAKER_02: you've been labeled as, you know, right-wingers and decoding the gurus.
23:52
SPEAKER_02: Congratulations on being a guru, by the way.
23:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you.
23:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, your flowing robes are most compelling.
23:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: They called you a prime example of the guru sphere,
24:03
SPEAKER_02: content driven by contrarianism,
24:05
SPEAKER_02: culture war engagement,
24:06
SPEAKER_02: and the attention economy, which that in and of itself isn't terribly...
24:10
SPEAKER_02: Condemning but I mean the implication is that you're not serious and that you're
24:14
SPEAKER_02: a right winger based only on the evidence that you don't conform to whatever
24:18
SPEAKER_02: the left view as proper dogma Yeah I just I find it so interesting
24:26
SPEAKER_00: when people go well you're are you on the right are you on
24:30
SPEAKER_00: the left number one does it really matter why does it matter
24:36
SPEAKER_00: if I'm right wing there's nothing wrong with being right wing
24:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm not this and the others is it's so reductive it's such a stupid way
24:46
SPEAKER_00: to have these conversations what I do and what I urge everyone to do is not to be
24:52
SPEAKER_00: with a tribe and then you look at an issue and you think
24:55
SPEAKER_00: to yourself what do I actually think about this issue and then you read a bit
25:01
SPEAKER_00: about it and then you come to an opinion and
25:05
SPEAKER_00: And then you still leave your mind open because your opinion, guess what kids, might change.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: So here's the thing.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: When it comes to the Iran topic, I'm actually on the left.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: We had Mehdi Hassan on to talk about Iran.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: I agreed with a lot of what Mehdi said about the Iranian war.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: I think the Iranian war was going to be a huge mistake
25:30
SPEAKER_00: And it looks like I'm right Now,
25:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be honest with you I was very much hoping to be wrong I wanted
25:40
SPEAKER_00: to be wrong Because it would make for a better world It would make for a safer world
25:47
SPEAKER_00: And it would solve a lot of the problems in the Middle East
25:52
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately,
25:53
SPEAKER_00: that simply isn't the case In my opinion Who knows,
25:58
SPEAKER_00: maybe Trump could pull something out of the bag And I'm made to look like an idiot
26:02
SPEAKER_00: But that's where I am with Iran When it comes to economics,
26:06
SPEAKER_00: particularly UK economics I'm very much on the right because I believe we're about
26:11
SPEAKER_00: to go bankrupt So I'm on the right because I think we really need to grow
26:16
SPEAKER_00: the economy We need to prioritise people
26:21
SPEAKER_00: Entrepreneurialism We can't have people continually relying on a welfare state
26:27
SPEAKER_00: and people who could work not wanting to and instead preferring to not do
26:32
SPEAKER_00: that I think that's ultimately unsustainable So I guess my answer
26:38
SPEAKER_00: to you is it depends on the issue Like I said Iran war I am left Economics right and
26:48
SPEAKER_00: that goes with lots of different things
26:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean,
26:53
SPEAKER_02: you can be a feminist and be pro-Palestine and it's sort of like,
26:57
SPEAKER_02: well, explain some of these conflicting
27:00
SPEAKER_02: priorities of these institutions to me.
27:03
SPEAKER_02: Do you believe that all women are equal or should women be compelled to wear this job?
27:07
SPEAKER_02: I mean, these things are nuanced arguments and it's often way too simplified
27:12
SPEAKER_02: by news organizations that try to explain things in 120-second clips and
27:18
SPEAKER_02: yet they're throwing shade at podcasters like you that spend hours going
27:23
SPEAKER_02: over complex issues with thinkers from both sides of the argument.
27:27
SPEAKER_02: It seems bizarre to me.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, look,
27:31
SPEAKER_00: I think the mainstream media realizes that the game is up I think they realize
27:37
SPEAKER_00: that their viewing numbers are going down their engagement is going down their
27:44
SPEAKER_00: advertising revenue is going down their relevance is going down they can no longer
27:49
SPEAKER_00: shape or control the narrative they can't do it anymore
27:54
SPEAKER_00: They have not only a business model that is becoming obsolete,
28:00
SPEAKER_00: they have also been exposed time and time again for lying to the audience.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: And you can't do that.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: You can't do that.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: Because your audience will go, you know what?
28:13
SPEAKER_00: I don't trust you.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: And if I don't trust you, why am I going to get the news from you?
28:17
SPEAKER_00: And they leave.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: You mean you don't believe Nick Kristof's article about Israeli rape dogs?
28:24
SPEAKER_00: I have no idea who Nick Kristof is, and I don't know about Israeli rape dogs.
28:30
SPEAKER_02: He's a columnist for the New York Times who contended that the IDF was training dogs
28:35
SPEAKER_02: to rape Palestinian prisoners.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have no...
28:42
SPEAKER_00: but this is the thing this is the thing when it comes
28:45
SPEAKER_00: to I don't know why people write these articles because in the days of
28:51
SPEAKER_00: the internet you will get fact-checked so quickly so quickly that you're just going
28:58
SPEAKER_00: to be made to look like a fool just be honest and
29:01
SPEAKER_00: if you get something wrong go well I thought I was right it turns out I was wrong
29:06
SPEAKER_02: Well he's been called out several times before and it's anyway and somehow he hangs
29:13
SPEAKER_02: in there he maintains his position
29:15
SPEAKER_02: so interesting times Yeah absolutely Francis thank you so much
29:20
SPEAKER_02: for your time you got anything coming up are you on the road
29:23
SPEAKER_02: where can people see you where can we connect with you
29:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm doing a show at I'm doing a comedy show actually with Tom Segura
29:34
SPEAKER_00: and Christina P I think it's on the 15th of July at
29:37
SPEAKER_00: the Leicester Square Theatre you can buy my book which is called Uneducated My Life
29:42
SPEAKER_00: as a Teacher and Why You Should Never Become One and I have a show called
29:46
SPEAKER_00: The Francis Foster Show oh look I've just done that that was smooth it's called
29:50
SPEAKER_00: The Francis Foster Show it's basically John Oliver style content but it's not on
29:55
SPEAKER_00: the left
29:56
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: It's not all about,
29:59
SPEAKER_00: you know,
30:00
SPEAKER_00: left-wing opinions It's not on the right I'm not hitting the table talking
30:05
SPEAKER_00: about Muslims every three seconds and re-migration It's the centre,
30:10
SPEAKER_00: the old centre We're talking about big issues You're going to learn a little bit
30:15
SPEAKER_00: But it's going to be a lot of fun And there's a lot of jokes right the way
30:19
SPEAKER_00: through it And people are really loving it The channel's starting
30:21
SPEAKER_00: to explode We've started to do it properly over a couple
30:24
SPEAKER_00: of months We've already hitting 40k
30:27
SPEAKER_00: And people really love it They're sharing the content So come and join It's called
30:30
SPEAKER_00: The Francis Foster Show
30:32
SPEAKER_02: All right, thank you.
30:33
SPEAKER_02: Be sure to subscribe to Francis if you're not already subscribing.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: Check out my podcast, Reasonably Happy, also my Substack, Reasonably Happy.
30:41
SPEAKER_02: I'll be doing shows in Los Angeles and San Francisco next month.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: My tour dates are on the Substack.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: Read Francis' book.
30:48
SPEAKER_02: I read it.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: It was great.
30:50
SPEAKER_02: Give it to any new graduate who thinks he or she wants to become a teacher just
30:54
SPEAKER_02: so they're fully informed, if nothing else.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: Francis, thanks again for your time.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: It was great to talk to you.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: Pleasure.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much, mate.