Latest / Daily Influence / 567. Escaping the Ownership Trap: Balancing Legacy, Values, and Growth with Bob Green

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567. Escaping the Ownership Trap: Balancing Legacy, Values, and Growth with Bob Green · Daily Influence

• 0:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the daily influence where our mission is to deliver a daily dose of positive influence that can uplift you personally or be shared within your sphere of influence.
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  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey everybody Brian Smith here with the I& team series and your daily influence and today I have an amazing guest who I just met at our open house and it was a pleasure to meet him and to learn about a person who has a mission that is to help family organizations understand and
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  [SPEAKER_00]: lean into what's accession or what the future might look like for them.
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  [SPEAKER_00]: So, Bob Green is the founder of Evoke Growth and it is a firm that helps business owner navigate what he calls the ownership trap and we're going to get into that in a second but he works with leaders to balance legacy values, culture, and the financial realities of
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  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to dive into how he helps owners and their families step out of day-to-day limitations, preserve what matters most, and to quite literally grow within tension.
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  [SPEAKER_00]: So Bob, thank you so much for joining us today on daily influence.
• 1:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: My pleasure, Brian, I'm excited to share a conversation today.
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  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I am too, and as I like to do, I just like to dive right in, and you know, the first thing
• 2:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like brands, I like the way that we as thought leaders and advisors can package the things that are important to our work into titles and you have one that you title the ownership trap.
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  [SPEAKER_00]: Can you for everybody kind of define that and what are some of the most common signs
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: uh... that an owner is caught up in it well you know uh... you know thanks brine so uh... when i when i learned about it is when i i i walked into the first family company uh... it was an owner who really was the uh... the leader of the expertise he found in the company based on uh...
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  [SPEAKER_01]: a new federal law and he said I can help people comply with that federal law and he was the guy to do that.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: He was also the best salesperson to do that because he was one of these eloquent people who can take his expertise and put it into a succinct proposal.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And when I found after 25 years when I joined the company, no one had ever developed that sophistication, he hired a lot of friends as many people do in family companies, hire friends and family people you trust and they did a great job.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: They just did exactly what they
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  [SPEAKER_01]: train to do or or educate and to do and they continue to work in those little pockets of knowledge.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, most built himself into isolation by hiring people to do specific jobs and not really thinking of ownership as a human strategy was more of a business strategy.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: We can go get this money, we can do a great job.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: and everyone did it with integrity but they also did it alone.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: So that was it was the lonelyness among people but they also fed up to him in that loneliness of just being being the expert.
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  [SPEAKER_00]: What that example, where do you see the trap show up the most is it in decision-making, is it in delegation, or is it in their personal identity?
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  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think from him to many other people and work with it, I think it's that personal identity.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe it's one that just develops almost
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  [SPEAKER_01]: sort of experience as opposed to one saying when you take on that founder role, you kind of think you have to be the fiercely independent person, you're going to do a lot of things you've never done before.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes you like to talk about those things, especially the failures, people like to talk about failures, they like to talk about achievements and how I figured this out.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And then it's, you know, now I've got something that's really valuable, I don't want to lose it.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just going to keep everything stable here and
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  [SPEAKER_01]: and try to avoid any unnecessary change, but that's where the opportunity is.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: When you, if you can explore the possibilities and what are we learning so far, and then you realize what to do next.
• 4:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's sort of like the battle between tradition and innovation that happens a lot.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: This is how we've got here.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's not mess it up.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just hold the course.
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  [SPEAKER_00]: So what do you have on our that stuck there?
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  [SPEAKER_00]: How do you help that leader step back so that they can work?
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  [SPEAKER_00]: on the business, not just in it.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: The first question I ask when I meet someone is an owner, I see who else should be at the table with us.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me someone who knows something about the customer, tell me someone who knows about your processes or
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  [SPEAKER_01]: whether it's that COO or CFO or even a person who is even in that category.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to move from those people because they have other pieces of the story and what happens is they sit down with me and they start telling their part of the story and they realize they've never had that conversation with each other.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just the person listening.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not telling you what to do.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to be the big time consultant.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just listening to their stories.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm putting together the pieces like a Jake stop puzzle.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And then I show it back and I say, oh, I'm that's great.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't know that.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: We should have done that like a time ago.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's where you realize the possibilities of who else should be.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: But ultimately, it's conversations, right?
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's really really comes down to, I explore, I listen.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: It's how I learned in that first family company, and I just repeated it over and over again with people.
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  [SPEAKER_00]: So that leads me to the second set, because we're talking about people who often times, as you pointed out, get meared down and working in the business so much that they, they actually,
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  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't think about succession, but they don't think about generational leadership.
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  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't think about what that influence has on the business itself.
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  [SPEAKER_00]: So evoke growth focuses on culture, relationships, and legacy as much as it does valuation.
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  [SPEAKER_00]: So how do you help owners balance protecting their values
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  [SPEAKER_00]: with pursuing financial growth or as sale.
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  [SPEAKER_00]: How is that conversation happening?
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  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I find it those stories when I'm getting to know.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: That initial team, whether they're formal or not, is you realize that tradition holds a lot of wisdom.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes it's just not inclusive enough.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: People don't really know it.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: They know their jobs.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: They know what they were hired to do.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And they don't know the whole wisdom.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: So we start figuring out, how did we get here?
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  [SPEAKER_01]: What is the real story of how we got here?
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  [SPEAKER_01]: What is that wisdom?
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And then we start recognizing the possibility of how we can listen for peer and collaborate.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: to bring those conversations together, and maybe we've been avoiding.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes it's just a matter of people who haven't recognized how they can collaborate because they're so focused on doing their jobs or maybe protecting their jobs because they feel like if I try to be the innovator, I'm gonna be the outlier, I'm gonna be that guy or just won't stay in line.
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I know because I was that guy and unfortunately, I mentioned reminded me of how important it is to embrace tradition.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And he's the one who actually brought me into it.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: and really help bring that relationship together.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: So it really is about that conversation, but really it is that the tradition holds that wisdom, and it's often an untold story, it's more than the about page on the website.
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So in that process, as you're engaging with your clients, do you use specific tools?
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  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have specific structured conversations that out clarify which values are non-negotiable as you move through this understanding?
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  [SPEAKER_01]: We have to set the values of,
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes, we assume the values of integrity and those are great.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: Those are the ones you want to put out to your customers.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: But one of the things I like to do, you're familiar with the disc profile.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: I like to break it down into four simple values without getting into all that data, because sometimes it's hard to bring all those reports together.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: So I just bring it into four words.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: and expertise.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: How you perceive those values and tell me what matters most to you because those expertise people, they want to see the ownership of the knowledge and they want to talk about what they've learned.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: Those people of value tradition are the ones who are going to be the process people.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: The innovators are the action people and I want to learn what their values are.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: As we move forward into this conversation about
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  [SPEAKER_01]: What are the untold stories in the company?
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  [SPEAKER_01]: So it really begins at the top.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And I ask, tell me more about those people on your team.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And we navigate through those functional areas.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And but really actually what we're doing is I'm representing the customer.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And I want to know, tell me about how you're creating my experience and help people relate to it, especially those people inside who just have never experienced the customer excited the conversation.
• 9:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm thinking about this balance between finance and culture and how we define return on investment because for a lot of us return on investment is more than just a money discussion.
• 9:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do you frame ROI so that it includes both tangible and intangible outcomes?
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  [SPEAKER_01]: The challenge I often see with founders, Brian, is they have made such a commitment to their companies.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: They really haven't thought about what's next for them.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: So what are the conversations I do ask about them?
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And I do this privately so they can be honest about it, not worry about how people may or may not agree with them.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: But I ask them, what is it that you have learned from the company and maybe what is it that you'd like to do?
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  [SPEAKER_01]: whether it's philanthropy or some other kind of a whole different role.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's, you know, that person really does act as the chairperson, or the horizon, the view of the company, or maybe it's, I just want to, here's what I've learned from 30 years in this company.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And I really like to go out and do this.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And let me try to set that up as that personal goal that nobody maybe talks about.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And, and, but to learn about what that
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  [SPEAKER_01]: I've even organized a group of people in nonprofit organizations to say, here's where I could use help and they need financial help too.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, so it's really, but ultimately, Brian, what we're trying to do is, as we learn this, we recognize new levels of those financial disciplines that we can share with other people and not keep it in the executives.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: We want to bring it down to the people so they can relate to it.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's how we're bringing people into the conversation so we can peel the owner away.
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  [SPEAKER_00]: As everybody at least, most of the people who are listening to us on a regular basis, know that is a huge part of the item team series in our work is engagement of the organization, and that means every individual is kept involved in that overall evolution of an organization, and it really does help them to grow.
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  [SPEAKER_00]: Not just individually, but the organization grows,
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  [SPEAKER_00]: were very much aligned there.
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  [SPEAKER_00]: Can you share an example where honoring a company's legacy actually enhanced that company's market value or their perceived value?
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  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, and one of the examples I actually began with the conversation about I think we should sell the company.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: I have a great product, they've designed it as one of the best in class products, maybe if not the best arguably, but it's one of those stories where
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  [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't intended, you know, it was something happened along the way and, you know, the owner got involved in a project that didn't work out and this was sort of a takeaway from it.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, I found this.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: I came across this idea.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: I just stumbled on this customer problem.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: I found a way to solve it and turn now to be a good one, but, you know, I wasn't really prepared to have a company.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And now here we are, 20 years later, and,
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  [SPEAKER_01]: Now the way people are buying in the market places different.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: So we don't think we're ready to handle this shift in the way people are buying.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: We're just not there.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: I was the guy who used to go out there and sell in relationships.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And as you know, in the way we look at the world now, it's not the same.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, just go out and knock on doors anymore.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not that way.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: It's about partnerships and relationships.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And so the idea was to let it well, let's just take this company to the markets
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And ultimately, when we're looking at those conversations of how the customers are looking at the company, we actually found that the most important conversation that often happens in these companies is these reputations of the integrity of the people of the integrity of the service and the product is really speaking for itself.
• 13:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they haven't really recognized the value of how this brand is recognized by people.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: even who don't know the names of the owners or the people on staff.
• 13:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And once we get into those, those deeper stories of your customer relationships and your reputation, you realize, well, yeah, so here's the discipline here.
• 14:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: We got to think a little bit more objectively about sales.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just about,
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  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, one person anymore, it's about the process and what have we learned from those customers and even going back to those customers and asking them what they like most or what we could do better and bringing them into the fold and not just a superficial survey, but a real conversation with them.
• 14:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they'll tell you, you know, I really wish you could, you know, add this additional feature or provide this, you know, one of the challenges for this company was
• 14:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: then the companies they work with don't really know each other.
• 14:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's so much turnover in these big companies that they lose track with each other.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: So this company could be the connector among their technical team and provide a better solution for their customers.
• 14:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was the collaboration just exploded.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: They say, well, now we see it.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: Now we've got a little more discipline here.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just about the hustle, which is what we often is that founder,
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  [SPEAKER_01]: Now it's a process and it's one that we can repeat, we can share with others.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And now that we know what we're going with this, we see what our customers really care about most.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: When terms of our product and our process, now we can share with other people.
• 15:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we can bring more people into this and everyone's in it.
• 15:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And now that we've figured this out, well that's not so we don't want to make this an asset sale and just throw this thing into the marketplace and see what happens.
• 15:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: maybe you're maybe not, you know, someone keeps track of this legacy, maybe, you know, let's keep this brand going and it's just more fun than ever, everybody's having a great time.
• 15:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thank you for sharing that.
• 15:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was such a good tee up for my really, it's my last question, Bob,
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  [SPEAKER_00]: Your mission seems to be about helping the owners see their business differently.
• 15:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're opening their eyes to things that just get lost in the day-to-day tactical chaos that we find ourselves in.
• 15:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: How does your philosophy guide your engagements from the first conversation through to the transition planning?
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  [SPEAKER_00]: How do you stay focused and how do you bring that
• 16:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: consistently each and every time.
• 16:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, one of the things I learned, this was one of those, you know, lessons I couldn't have planned.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And so, go way back to when it started then, you know, the founder CEO went through his one-year transition.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: The future CEO came in.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And although it wasn't a private equity firm, it was one that was thinking like one, it was a very large old private company with a lot of cash.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And when I didn't know, is that future CEO not only intended to acquire this, or lead this company,
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  [SPEAKER_01]: but intended to engage in an industry roll-up.
• 16:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I became the integrator of this family company in another one.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And what I learned, Brian, was to think like private equity and act with heart.
• 16:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's where that financial discipline comes in in terms of looking at where the loose ends, the gaps in the financial performance.
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  [SPEAKER_01]: But then what's the story in those things?
• 17:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it about customers, is it about concentration of knowledge, is it about,
• 17:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: No one, you know, has shared that traditional story of wisdom or is it people who are, you know, not sharing expertise in.
• 17:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's really thinking about, if I were to buy this company and I wanted to get the greatest financial investment back from my, from my work, how would I do it?
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  [SPEAKER_01]: And how would I do it without breaking it apart?
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  [SPEAKER_01]: Rather than, you know, ripping it apart to find all those little nuggets of cash and,
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And monetizing quickly, what if it was like a jigsaw puzzle?
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the more we learn, the more we realize it's not a hundred pieces of thousand piece puzzle.
• 17:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And as we keep building it together, this is how we can think like private equity and act with hearts.
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love that, actually.
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you so much, Bob.
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: If people in our audience, our listeners want to get a hold of you, what is the best way to connect with you?
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm always, always welcome email, it's Bob at evokeagrove.com and find me on our linkedin.
• 18:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's at Bob Green Teams, always about people and happy to start a conversation and start with getting to know each other.
• 18:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's always the best way I would agree with that completely.
• 18:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Bob, thank you so much for sharing.
• 18:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do I skate the ownership trap and build a business that honors its values while creating you know real market strength?
• 18:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And remember, everybody listening if you'd like to learn more about Bob and his work, you can get in touch with them.
• 18:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: It'll be in the description and comments below.
• 18:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can also go to his website at evokegrowth.com.
• 18:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's E, V, O, K, E, G, R, O, W, T, H, dot com.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening to daily influence, join us daily as we continue exploring how intentional influence shapes not only our work life but our lives completely.
• 19:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I hope you have a great day.