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Mini: What is "Learning?" · Why We Do What We Do

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we Do what we Do. Welcome
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  Speaker 1: to Why We Do what we Do Mini. I'm your
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  Speaker 1: host Abraham and I'm your host Shane. We are a
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  Speaker 1: psychology podcast. We talk about the things that humans and
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  Speaker 1: non human animals do, and sometimes we talk about all
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  Speaker 1: the things that they do all at once.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: As I said, this is a mini which means it's
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  Speaker 1: a short episode. We release these on Mondays as a
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  Speaker 1: quick dive into a topic and then we get out
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  Speaker 1: of there after, Like fifteen minutes is kind of the goal.
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  Speaker 1: Fifteen or less we can go less, we have gone more.
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  Speaker 2: Good luck on this one, because we're going to unpack
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  Speaker 2: learning in less than fifteen minutes.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, let's quickly say if you would like to
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  Speaker 1: support us, one way you can do that as by
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  Speaker 1: joining us on Patreon, Like and subscribe to our podcast,
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  Speaker 1: the podcast that helps us a lot, and go tell
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  Speaker 1: a friend, maybe just make them subscribe by typing our
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  Speaker 1: stuff into their phone or computer or whatever and clicking subscribe.
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  Speaker 1: That's great too. Yeah, but we are talking about learning,
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  Speaker 1: and learning is something that we all think we understand
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  Speaker 1: and I think in a way we kind of take
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  Speaker 1: for granted, or many of us do at least. So
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  Speaker 1: let's tackle this concept that is the subject of many
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  Speaker 1: professions and lifetimes of scholarly work and distill it into
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  Speaker 1: a fifteen minute discussion. Sure, and we're going to do
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  Speaker 1: our best answer what is and is not learning? Yes?
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  Speaker 2: So are you ready?
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  Speaker 1: Yep? Three to one? Go all right. If you look
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  Speaker 1: around for a definition, or if you're just thinking about
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  Speaker 1: how you might try to define learning, you might come
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  Speaker 1: up with or read something that goes something like this
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  Speaker 1: quote learning is the process of acquiring knowledge, skills, or
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  Speaker 1: behaviors end quote. And I actually did find that exact definition,
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  Speaker 1: and that's why I used it. And in addition, I
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  Speaker 1: have also seen added to that. It's said that learning
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  Speaker 1: can happen intentionally or unintentionally, and that, to me is
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  Speaker 1: a very silly way to say that, because that means
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  Speaker 1: it always happens, and it's kind of silly to parse
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  Speaker 1: it by intentionality. If they're like, it could happen this way,
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  Speaker 1: or it could happen this way, I'm like, so it
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  Speaker 1: could it could happen, is what you're saying. Yeah, anyway,
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  Speaker 1: parsonally by intentionality seems silly, But anyway, those that's the
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  Speaker 1: definition they offer, and I think at first blush it
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  Speaker 1: registers as coherent like, oh, I got that learning is
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  Speaker 1: the process of acquiring knowledge, skills, and behaviors. Cool, that
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  Speaker 1: makes sense, sure, sure, but I disagree.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we have to ask a question what is
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  Speaker 2: meant by acquiring? What is knowledge? What are skills? More importantly,
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  Speaker 2: how are they different from behaviors? And although we know
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  Speaker 2: what we would mean when we say behaviors, what our
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  Speaker 2: behaviors within this definition, we don't really have a good
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  Speaker 2: way of describing any of that stuff.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, this definition raises a lot of questions
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  Speaker 1: without without providing much in the way of a useful definition.
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  Speaker 1: It's sort of a definition that leaves you with less
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  Speaker 1: information than you had before you heard the definition.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So, for example, does acquire a mean expose
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  Speaker 2: to information? If so, does learning count if you don't
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  Speaker 2: remember it because at least you were exposed to it.
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  Speaker 2: Does it mean that you can demonstrate that information? If so,
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  Speaker 2: when then learning only happens once we can demonstrate actions
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  Speaker 2: with respect to what is quote unquote learned. Essentially, using
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  Speaker 2: acquires quote unquote acquires tries to skip the important aspect
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  Speaker 2: of the learning, which is how do we determine that
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  Speaker 2: something was actually learned?
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  Speaker 1: Yes, so we are instead going to offer a very
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  Speaker 1: technical definition followed by a colloquial definition, a version of
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  Speaker 1: this of the definition that we believe is more objective
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  Speaker 1: and useful. So here here is what learning actually is
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  Speaker 1: in a way that I think is a more useful definition.
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  Speaker 1: Learning is the process by which our behaviors are discriminated
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  Speaker 1: by environmental circumstances, arrangements, or cues. That's my technical definition, sure,
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  Speaker 1: said more succinctly. Learning is the process by which our
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  Speaker 1: behavior changes to adapt to the situation. That's learning. And
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  Speaker 1: there's like five reasons I think this definition is a
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  Speaker 1: very good definition.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, So let's go ahead and unpack those in what
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  Speaker 2: those important features are. So, first, learning does not always
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  Speaker 2: result in an improvement in behavior, and I think that's
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  Speaker 2: something that's a myth. We think that we learn something
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  Speaker 2: and our behavior gets better. That is not at all
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  Speaker 2: the case, right.
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  Speaker 1: Not always, I mean it sometimes is, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Not always yeah, yeah, you know, and even then whatever
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  Speaker 2: that might mean, right improvement, So learning can mean acquiring
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  Speaker 2: new behaviors that are actually less helpful to the individual
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  Speaker 2: because they adapt to toxic, counterproductive situations.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly right, and that is the I think an
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  Speaker 1: understanding that like learning is simply that we change to
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  Speaker 1: it to fit the circumstance, which sometimes means we develop
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  Speaker 1: behaviors that are actually worse for us in the long run. Right,
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  Speaker 1: And that happens a lot more than you would think.
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  Speaker 1: What I like about this definition also is that it
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  Speaker 1: means learning means behavior change, and they sort of parsed
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  Speaker 1: skills and behaviors as things that are different. But skills
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  Speaker 1: and behaviors are not different in any meaningful way. Knowledge
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  Speaker 1: and behavior are not different in any meaningful way. I
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  Speaker 1: suppose you could argue that like behavior is the more
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  Speaker 1: general category, and that inside of behavior you have knowledge
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  Speaker 1: and skills that are specific examples within the category of learning.
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  Speaker 1: But importantly for this discussion, it means that learning is
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  Speaker 1: behavior change. Okay, it is adapting to the situation. That's learning.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. A third point here is that learning isn't an acquisition,
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  Speaker 2: so to speak, as if we take something into ourselves.
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  Speaker 2: It's a process in which our behaviors are now more
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  Speaker 2: adaptive to our experience with situations. And that would also
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  Speaker 2: suggest that we can learn new ways of doing things
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  Speaker 2: well after we've acquired quote unquote this thing, so like
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  Speaker 2: the acquisition kind of also to me sounds like it's
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  Speaker 2: we're taking something into ourselves that it's static, like we're
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  Speaker 2: almost like we've got an inventory of behaviors and it
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  Speaker 2: doesn't really.
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  Speaker 1: Operate like that.
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  Speaker 2: It's going to adapt based on experience, based on situations,
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  Speaker 2: and so we are our behaviors are changing constantly.
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  Speaker 1: Yes. The fourth one is that learning happens across a
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  Speaker 1: variety of presentation modalities and experiences. We learn through observation,
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  Speaker 1: to listening to a lecture or a podcast, reading, practicing, experiencing, experimenting,
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  Speaker 1: and interactions we have with other peoples or events. These
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  Speaker 1: are all categories of situations we could expect to see
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  Speaker 1: learning take place, although to be fair, we are always
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  Speaker 1: adapting to our current circumstances, so you really could list
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  Speaker 1: anything there and it would still more or less make sense.
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  Speaker 1: But it's important to consider that. I think some people
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  Speaker 1: think of learning as taking place in an academic or
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  Speaker 1: didactic situation, when learning really can happen in a wide
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  Speaker 1: variety of ways. It's just the fact that we are
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  Speaker 1: we are adapting to our situation currently and to future
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  Speaker 1: situations in many cases before like acquiring knowledge we then
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  Speaker 1: might use at some later time, Right, I use the
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  Speaker 1: word acquire there, Shoot, we have we have engaged with
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  Speaker 1: knowledge that will allow us to have behaviors changed when
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  Speaker 1: the circumstances relevant for that knowledge arise in the future. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And the fifth point is that learning is not always
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  Speaker 2: directly observable, So often parts of our behavior will change
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  Speaker 2: that no one else can see, such as our thoughts, feelings,
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  Speaker 2: and knowledge. These private events, these private behaviors that are
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  Speaker 2: occurring are not observable to other people. And we may
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  Speaker 2: have thoughts to ourselves and even like kind of like
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  Speaker 2: script to ourselves and have verbal behavior to ourselves where
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  Speaker 2: we're kind of problem solving and thinking about things and like.
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  Speaker 2: And then those new circumstances, like, for instance, when an
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  Speaker 2: AD comes up and you don't know how to deal
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  Speaker 2: with it and process your emotions. Your emotions may change
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  Speaker 2: from elation like you just had while we were talking
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  Speaker 2: about the show to now the disappointment that comes with
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  Speaker 2: the AD. But your behavior is changing and we can't
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  Speaker 2: even see how you're reacting to this ad.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so we're back from that and we listed the
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  Speaker 1: reasons that we like this definition of learning better. And
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  Speaker 1: so I'm just going to say that definition one more time. Technical,
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  Speaker 1: followed by colloquial learning is the process by which our
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  Speaker 1: behaviors are discriminated by environmental circumstances, arrangements, or cues. More succinctly,
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  Speaker 1: learning is the process by which our behavior changes to
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  Speaker 1: adapt to the situation. And that that definition allows for
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  Speaker 1: a lot of important features we understand to be features
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  Speaker 1: of learning. Okay, And of course, as we learn, we
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  Speaker 1: are influenced by all of the past learning we have
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  Speaker 1: also had and experienced, and all of our new learning
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  Speaker 1: will then become a part of the complex matrix of
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  Speaker 1: our past skills as we learn new things again in
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  Speaker 1: the future. So as we're in a context, the adapting
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  Speaker 1: we do to that context is influenced to the situations
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  Speaker 1: in the past where we've had to learn and adapt.
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  Speaker 1: That will then change, that will affect the direction our
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  Speaker 1: adaptation takes and our new situation. Here, like, maybe we
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  Speaker 1: just strengthen an existing skill set or repertoire we already had.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe we start to deconstruct a skill set that we
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  Speaker 1: had and change it so that it looks a little
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  Speaker 1: bit different because it's no longer as effective as we
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  Speaker 1: thought it was or as it used to be, and
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  Speaker 1: so like there are a variety of ways that can
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  Speaker 1: take place, but we always approach every new learning opportunity
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  Speaker 1: with bringing with us our history of learning at the
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  Speaker 1: same time.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, And a term we used earlier, we use the
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  Speaker 2: term discriminated. It's one of my favorite terms in behavior
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  Speaker 2: analysis in general and like learning, because we're talking about
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  Speaker 2: how behavior changes depending on certain circumstances. Right, we discriminate
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  Speaker 2: when to engage in certain responses. And all this means
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  Speaker 2: is that we just kind of sort one thing from another.
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  Speaker 2: We discriminate that this happens here and not here. And
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  Speaker 2: we say that the environment discriminates behavior because it is
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  Speaker 2: our prevailing and historical circumstances that incentivize or discourage our
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  Speaker 2: actions as they adapt to the present situation. So this
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  Speaker 2: is technically more accurate than saying the individual discriminates, because
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  Speaker 2: it is the situation at hand that presents opportunities and
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  Speaker 2: directions for our actions that they'll take. Right, So, our
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  Speaker 2: behavior shapes and flows and changes under unique circumstances, and
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  Speaker 2: the environment discriminates how we respond.
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  Speaker 1: Right, Now, as we talk about learning, you think of
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  Speaker 1: an educational setting, and so these are just some examples
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  Speaker 1: to talk through this. Right, learning happens in an educational
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  Speaker 1: setting when the students can behave with respect to the
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  Speaker 1: information that was provided. Pedagogically speaking, teaching didn't happen if
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  Speaker 1: learning didn't happen, Like if someone quote unquote taught something
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  Speaker 1: and the student didn't learn it, then did they teach
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  Speaker 1: that thing? I would say no, because the evidence of
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  Speaker 1: their teaching would be in the outcome of it having
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  Speaker 1: been learned, and the behavior change has been demonstrated, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: as an outcome. So anyway, I think that's what we're
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  Speaker 1: talking about. What learning looks like in an education environment
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  Speaker 1: is that students can now behave with respect to that information.
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  Speaker 2: Now, in a deliberate practice situation such as learning an instrument,
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  Speaker 2: language exercise, or skills such as cooking something like that
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  Speaker 2: behavior is usually shaped to follow a very precise pattern
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  Speaker 2: and usually at a minimal threshold of speed. So simply put,
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  Speaker 2: like you know, these behaviors have to happen in a
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  Speaker 2: certain sequence a certain way. They have to happen in
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  Speaker 2: a certain amount of time, like you know, specifically cooking, right,
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  Speaker 2: cooking has to happen like it's it's precise, Like it's
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  Speaker 2: not as precise as people think it is, but it
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  Speaker 2: is more precise than like let's say, like maybe writing
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  Speaker 2: a passage or typing something right. There's more time limits,
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  Speaker 2: there's more structure compared to that, and so learning occurs
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  Speaker 2: in these spaces where like, oh, if I move past
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  Speaker 2: the threshold, then I lose an opportunity for learning, I
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  Speaker 2: lose an opportunity for reinforcement. So these situations are pretty unique.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I think an instrument is a really good case
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  Speaker 1: where the pacing is extremely important. We're playing an instrument. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: notes follow from one another at a very deliberate speed,
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  Speaker 1: and that creates the composition of music that comes from
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  Speaker 1: that instrument. And so speed is actually a really important
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  Speaker 1: face in any of these sort of very precise behavior
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  Speaker 1: patterns that we develop as we're learning things. For sure,
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  Speaker 1: there's also like opportunistic learning, which is when they said
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  Speaker 1: like intentionally unintentionally kind of learning that just sort of
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  Speaker 1: happens on the fly. Again, a useless way to try
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  Speaker 1: and parse out how those things show up. But nevertheless,
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  Speaker 1: this is simply that our behaviors adapt to the situation,
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  Speaker 1: which of course is happening in all of the situations
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  Speaker 1: we have also listed. And these are not hard and
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  Speaker 1: fast categories like this is just ways that we figured
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  Speaker 1: out people that we figured people might consider and think
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  Speaker 1: about when they're when if we were to ask about,
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  Speaker 1: like when does learning happen, they might think of like
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  Speaker 1: opportunistic learning, like a thing just happened and you gained
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  Speaker 1: experience from that, or deliberate practice where you're trying to
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  Speaker 1: get a particular skill up to speed, or in a
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  Speaker 1: classroom environment where they're doing education type things. But that
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  Speaker 1: is not to say that those are the only categories.
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  Speaker 1: Those are the ones that I figured people would be
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  Speaker 1: thinking about when if asked and when thinking about and
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  Speaker 1: asked about with respect to learning.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So basically, like simply put, learning is a process
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  Speaker 2: by which our behavior changes and adapts to our environments.
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  Speaker 2: That's that's what learned nice and easy, and everybody learns
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  Speaker 2: in every context, which is at least most context, and
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  Speaker 2: it's kind of fun, you know, I think I would
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  Speaker 2: still say every context. I feel like that's a pretty
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  Speaker 2: good absolute.
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  Speaker 1: That's fair. So we all learned something that's kind nice.
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  Speaker 1: Always learning. I value learning. I value very deliberate learning.
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  Speaker 1: I value having my behavior be able to change and
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  Speaker 1: adapt personally. Yeah, but agreed. I think that is what
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  Speaker 1: we have to say about learning. Look at that, all
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  Speaker 1: of the scholarly work that's ever been done on this,
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  Speaker 1: and we did it in less than fifteen minutes. Good job,
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  Speaker 1: Good job us.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah take that Catania.
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  Speaker 1: Ooh inside nerd joke. If you like to tell us
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• 13:37
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  Speaker 1: for listening. Is there anything that I'm missing or that
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  Speaker 1: you like to add before we wrap this one up?
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: No, I think it covers it all.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Right, perfect catch us next time. We'll have our full
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  Speaker 1: length comes out on Wednesday. Another mini will come out
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  Speaker 1: the following Monday, and we'll just keep that up for
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• 14:58
  Speaker 1: But this is Abraham and it's a Shane Why We
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Do What We Do?
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Mini is out, Ziya or bye or whatever I say.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and we hope you have an awesome day.