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#2013 Transcranial Electrical Stimulation - David Gillespie · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: I get out your bloody champs. It's the project that's
0:02
Speaker 1: You's Tiffany and Cook over there in her her rabbit
0:05
Speaker 1: hole chewing on a fucking carrot. I'm not even being funny.
0:08
Speaker 1: I'm not even being metaphoric. It's not an analogy. It's literal,
0:14
Speaker 1: like having fucking bugs. Bunny on the podcast and when
0:17
Speaker 1: I got on, she was just crunching and chomping. What
0:21
Speaker 1: are you? Why are you eating a raw carrot?
0:23
Speaker 2: Because I didn't want to feel like for the next
0:25
Speaker 2: half an hour, I deep down I wanted to punch
0:27
Speaker 2: you and David in the face, so I thought I'd
0:29
Speaker 2: take the edge off with a carrot.
0:31
Speaker 1: Why is the lady allowed to say that towards two men?
0:34
Speaker 1: But if a man said that towards two women, I'd
0:36
Speaker 1: be in trouble.
0:37
Speaker 2: It's probably probably running out on it.
0:40
Speaker 1: The gispo goialispaw was a joke. We know she, we
0:43
Speaker 1: know God here, oh god. It was a rhetorical question.
0:50
Speaker 3: Everyone.
0:50
Speaker 1: I didn't really mean it. There's no there's nothing in it.
0:53
Speaker 1: Don't send you an email. But Gilespo is going to
0:56
Speaker 1: answer it anyway. Fuck, that's the problem you have him on.
0:59
Speaker 1: You ask any question there's a fucking answer. Come on,
1:01
Speaker 1: what is it?
1:02
Speaker 3: Testosterone of course is the answer. Yeah, well, because because
1:09
Speaker 3: the version of humans that has the testosterone supplement can
1:13
Speaker 3: be quite dangerous, and so it has to have rules
1:16
Speaker 3: around it.
1:17
Speaker 1: I don't want to point out that there's a female
1:19
Speaker 1: on the show that's probably got more testosterone than you, Gilespo.
1:22
Speaker 3: So a, you know, are you whized honestly? Because yeah,
1:29
Speaker 3: she's fit and works out on everything, But that doesn't
1:32
Speaker 3: mean she's got more testosterone. No, that is well, well
1:36
Speaker 3: not unless she's taking extra of course.
1:38
Speaker 1: No, No, I don't think.
1:39
Speaker 3: I don't think versions there. I don't know.
1:42
Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything on board that's untoward. I
1:45
Speaker 1: don't think. I don't think Wada are going to be
1:47
Speaker 1: knocking on her bloody door anytime on a rabbit hole
1:50
Speaker 1: anytime soon. You should ask Gillespo what is the what
1:55
Speaker 1: is the underlying mechanism of your your hangariness, tiff, your
2:00
Speaker 1: pensity to want to punch someone in the face when
2:02
Speaker 1: you can't get a carrot or similar?
2:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, David, why is hungry such a big emotion for me?
2:09
Speaker 3: Huh, Well, it's probably to do with the whole reward
2:13
Speaker 3: cycle thing, So it's you know, the purpose of our
2:16
Speaker 3: dopamine system is to make as seek useful rewards, and
2:19
Speaker 3: one of the most basic useful rewards is food. So
2:22
Speaker 3: if you're genuinely hungry, then your dopamine system is firing
2:27
Speaker 3: up to force you to get food and respond to
2:33
Speaker 3: that hunger. So you are on edge. Dopamine Remember, its
2:37
Speaker 3: function is to put you on edge, make you more focused,
2:42
Speaker 3: make your muscles work better, make you more determined to
2:46
Speaker 3: achieve the rewards. So that's probably what you're experiencing.
2:51
Speaker 2: Wow, I am carrot in hand.
2:53
Speaker 1: Well, a carrot in hand? Did the carrot help? I
2:56
Speaker 1: feel like a carrot's not particularly helpful?
2:59
Speaker 2: Look, and it did. But it's better than an apple.
3:01
Speaker 2: If I eat an apple when I'm hungry, it makes
3:03
Speaker 2: me makes you hungrier. Great, Yeah.
3:06
Speaker 1: You know?
3:06
Speaker 3: Or do you want to know why? Yes, So.
3:12
Speaker 1: Get comfortable everyone, No.
3:14
Speaker 3: This one's a quick one. So fructose, which is the
3:16
Speaker 3: primary sugar in an apple, is it causes It fires
3:22
Speaker 3: the hunger system, so it fires the appetite. Its function
3:26
Speaker 3: is to make us want to eat more. So, from
3:30
Speaker 3: an evolutionary perspective, if we've got something sweet, it was
3:32
Speaker 3: usually the thing we shoved in our mouth first because
3:34
Speaker 3: it's sweet. We like sweet things, and it actually makes
3:38
Speaker 3: us hungrier and gets our appetite system going and ready
3:42
Speaker 3: for real food. So that's why. And a lot of
3:45
Speaker 3: people will tell you that, a lot of people will say,
3:47
Speaker 3: if I'm hungry, the worst thing in the world I
3:48
Speaker 3: can eat is an apple, because as soon as I do,
3:51
Speaker 3: I'm even hungrier. Now, mind you, karras probably not a
3:55
Speaker 3: great solution because it's got some fructose in it too,
3:57
Speaker 3: but nowhere near the quantities of of something like an apple.
4:02
Speaker 2: I normally eat my apples and pears with peanut butter,
4:05
Speaker 2: with nut butter on them, and Harps teased me the
4:07
Speaker 2: other day when I said that they are delicious.
4:11
Speaker 3: My sister in law did that too, and I thought
4:13
Speaker 3: she was totally insane because she take she'd slice a
4:16
Speaker 3: bit of apple off and then put peanut butter on it,
4:18
Speaker 3: and I thought she was insane till I tried it.
4:22
Speaker 3: It was really nice, so good.
4:24
Speaker 1: Well, I think what that does too, it because you're
4:27
Speaker 1: putting the fat with the sugar at low is what
4:29
Speaker 1: they call I don't know if they still use that term,
4:31
Speaker 1: but glycemic load. So it doesn't create such an insulin response,
4:36
Speaker 1: so you probably do you get hanged? Are you if
4:40
Speaker 1: you have that and some nut butter, are you satisfied
4:43
Speaker 1: after that or do you still want more?
4:44
Speaker 3: Yeah?
4:45
Speaker 2: No, that's why I have it.
4:47
Speaker 3: And the fat. The fat is what what he needs.
4:50
Speaker 1: Gillespo, you were telling us, I don't know if you
4:53
Speaker 1: want to share this, but fuck it, I'm opening the door.
4:54
Speaker 1: You were telling us before we press the record button
4:57
Speaker 1: that it's very, very differ dificult for people who are
5:01
Speaker 1: vegans and eat only kind of raw vegan diets, which
5:05
Speaker 1: there are not a lot, but there are people that
5:07
Speaker 1: it's almost impossible enough for them, impossible for them to
5:11
Speaker 1: get enough calories eating that way to survive.
5:14
Speaker 3: Based. Yeah, I'm a little reluctant to talk about this
5:16
Speaker 3: too much because it's a vague memory of a study
5:19
Speaker 3: I read as I was reading about something else, but
5:21
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure that's what it said, which is a
5:23
Speaker 3: raw food diet cannot supply sufficient calories to keep an
5:28
Speaker 3: adult human alive. So and the only sort of asterisk
5:34
Speaker 3: on that is that unless you include a lot of
5:38
Speaker 3: raw foods that have a lot of fat in them,
5:40
Speaker 3: like avocados and in that particular study, I think they
5:43
Speaker 3: observed that a large percentage, very large percentage of the
5:47
Speaker 3: diet of those people who were doing this successfully or
5:51
Speaker 3: at least managing to stay alive. I guess we're people
5:57
Speaker 3: who were doing it with a large amount of avocado
5:59
Speaker 3: in it.
6:00
Speaker 2: I've got a question, when did David, When did humans
6:04
Speaker 2: start cooking food cooking meat?
6:07
Speaker 3: At the transition? Well, you know, I wasn't there, but
6:12
Speaker 3: I was, Oh, Craig was, Yeah, I thought it might
6:14
Speaker 3: have been, but I didn't want to say anything. At
6:18
Speaker 3: the transition from the tree hanging version of us, well,
6:23
Speaker 3: you know, it's wrong to say version of us because
6:25
Speaker 3: we're a separate species. But in the evolutionary transition from
6:29
Speaker 3: generally being in jungles and swinging around in trees into
6:32
Speaker 3: the grassland version, where there were no trees and things
6:35
Speaker 3: to do, where we had to do some outside the
6:39
Speaker 3: body processing of our food supply. And so what we
6:45
Speaker 3: found is that we could get by with a lot
6:47
Speaker 3: less intestine if we process the food before we put
6:50
Speaker 3: it in our mouths, which is what cooking is. So
6:53
Speaker 3: that's breaking the food down using fire before we put
6:57
Speaker 3: it into our body. So we need a lot less
6:58
Speaker 3: intestine to do that, and what we save in intestine
7:02
Speaker 3: we make up for in brains. So there's a strong
7:05
Speaker 3: theory that the reason we were able to grow such
7:12
Speaker 3: large brains and be what we are is because of fire.
7:16
Speaker 3: Because we discovered that the fire was bloody handy in
7:19
Speaker 3: predigesting food, and if we predigested it, we didn't need
7:23
Speaker 3: anywhere near as much a testine and we could invest
7:26
Speaker 3: those resources in growing brain instead of gut.
7:29
Speaker 1: So the answer to your question tip is nine thirty eight.
7:34
Speaker 3: The question when I don't know the exact time, but
7:39
Speaker 3: sometime between the transition between chimpionzee like versions of us
7:43
Speaker 3: and US versions of us.
7:45
Speaker 1: Did you see that they just recently David pushed the
7:49
Speaker 1: modern Homo sapient timeline back by two hundred thousand years
7:54
Speaker 1: from three hundred thousand to half a million, Like, I
7:58
Speaker 1: didn't see that, but yeah, what they call modern Homo sapiens.
8:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was the big question is what we did
8:06
Speaker 3: to all our cousins, because we weren't the only species
8:08
Speaker 3: of human, not by a long shot. So Neanderthals were
8:13
Speaker 3: a separate species, for example, but there were others. And
8:17
Speaker 3: how you think it's robusters, that's me yep. So the
8:22
Speaker 3: big question is what do we do to them? Because
8:23
Speaker 3: we probably did something to them, so I.
8:26
Speaker 1: Think we all know what we did to them. That's okay,
8:29
Speaker 1: it's and we haven't stopped doing that to each other.
8:32
Speaker 1: By the way, we're.
8:35
Speaker 3: The only species of humans left, so there could have
8:40
Speaker 3: been other species. Well, there were other species and they
8:44
Speaker 3: didn't survive and we did, which makes a casta finger
8:48
Speaker 3: suspicion in our direction.
8:50
Speaker 1: I suspect that's an interesting question, though, Tiff. It is
8:54
Speaker 1: it is? And how long I should know this? But
8:57
Speaker 1: you'll definitely know because you're the smartest bloke on the show.
9:01
Speaker 1: Agriculture What is that like ten thousand years old? About
9:05
Speaker 1: ten thousand? Yeah, it's what allowed.
9:07
Speaker 3: Us to live in groups larger than about one hundred
9:09
Speaker 3: and fifty because suddenly we could not have to we
9:13
Speaker 3: didn't have to move to the food. We kept the
9:15
Speaker 3: food and we created it, and then we could have
9:19
Speaker 3: large groups of humans around where we created the food.
9:22
Speaker 3: So we noticed that the grasses and so on could
9:24
Speaker 3: be you know, you can grow fields of the things
9:27
Speaker 3: and take the grains from them and then feed large
9:29
Speaker 3: amounts of people, so which necessitated us evolving the capacity
9:34
Speaker 3: to work well with other strangers, which is we've talked
9:37
Speaker 3: about many, many times on the show, which is how
9:40
Speaker 3: we evolved empathy, and why we evolved empathy is we
9:43
Speaker 3: have to be able to trust other humans.
9:47
Speaker 1: Le'd be fascinating, all right, now, that's not what we're
9:50
Speaker 1: talking about today. But beautiful, beautiful intro. We are going
9:55
Speaker 1: to chat today. I don't even know why, but about
9:58
Speaker 1: transcranial electrical stimulation. I have a really fundamental and I
10:04
Speaker 1: say basic fundamental understanding of what that is and why
10:07
Speaker 1: it's used. But why are we chatting about that? Why
10:10
Speaker 1: are your interest in that?
10:13
Speaker 3: Because the t GA in Australia has recently approved that.
10:17
Speaker 3: I think I didn't get a chance to look up
10:20
Speaker 3: this article before I came on here, but I think
10:22
Speaker 3: this is the case in the last few weeks or
10:23
Speaker 3: so for treatment of depression. And this is the so
10:32
Speaker 3: just for people who are not quite sure what this is.
10:36
Speaker 3: This is they look like a skull cap sort of
10:39
Speaker 3: a thing. Put it on your head for about twenty
10:43
Speaker 3: minutes a day, passes an electric current into various bits
10:48
Speaker 3: of your brain. And this is not the kind you
10:50
Speaker 3: know In one flock flew over the cokoo's nest where
10:52
Speaker 3: you're getting a little bitt of me or anything. This
10:55
Speaker 3: is very very mild electrical current, and if it's done right,
11:01
Speaker 3: it has been shown to produce improvement in symptoms associated
11:08
Speaker 3: with depression. And this is in double blind trials where
11:12
Speaker 3: this is the kind of thing you can try pretty effectively,
11:14
Speaker 3: which is that you can give someone a cap to
11:17
Speaker 3: put on their head that makes it feel like they're
11:19
Speaker 3: getting electrical stimulation, but they're not, and so they don't
11:24
Speaker 3: know if they're getting it. You don't know if they're
11:26
Speaker 3: getting it, the researchers don't know. It's all double blinded
11:29
Speaker 3: and you can measure the utcomes and so there have
11:32
Speaker 3: been studies done in this, quite recent studies in it
11:37
Speaker 3: that have shown that it can improve symptoms associated with anxiety, depression,
11:43
Speaker 3: and even addiction. So there's a recent study done on
11:46
Speaker 3: marijuana addiction. Long term marijuana addiction, which is off marijuana
11:50
Speaker 3: is often prescribed for pain relief, increasingly so, and the
11:55
Speaker 3: hidden story there is that there's often a significant risk
11:59
Speaker 3: of addiction and getting people off the marijuana addiction once
12:06
Speaker 3: it started it can be very very difficult, and there
12:09
Speaker 3: have been studies using this kind of technology to essentially
12:16
Speaker 3: break the addiction, reduce the cravings, improve sleep, outcomes, improve anxiety,
12:21
Speaker 3: are comes, improved withdrawal symptoms, all of those kinds of things.
12:27
Speaker 3: So this is an interesting technology. The more interesting bit
12:34
Speaker 3: from my perspective is why why does this work? What
12:39
Speaker 3: is it doing in the brain that is causing this
12:42
Speaker 3: to have this effect? Because it's an interesting effect. If
12:49
Speaker 3: you look at the studies on this and say, Okay,
12:52
Speaker 3: what are they saying are the outcomes from this? It
12:55
Speaker 3: is very very similar to the kinds of outcomes that
12:58
Speaker 3: we've talked about before, where I said what you need
13:01
Speaker 3: to do is find something to increase your focus. So
13:04
Speaker 3: if you are addicted to something, if you're suffering anxiety,
13:07
Speaker 3: for suffering depression, you need to find something to increase
13:10
Speaker 3: your focus. And so remember we've talked about you could do,
13:13
Speaker 3: you know, take up playing a musical instrument, you know,
13:16
Speaker 3: as something that gets you into that flow state where
13:18
Speaker 3: you are increasing focus. And if I think mentioned you know,
13:23
Speaker 3: one of the big ones that's historically been there is
13:26
Speaker 3: meditation and those sorts of things which achieve the same
13:30
Speaker 3: sort of thing which is putting you into a state
13:32
Speaker 3: where you are entirely focused on just one thing. So
13:36
Speaker 3: the outcomes from studies that show those sorts of things
13:39
Speaker 3: are very, very similar to the artcomes that we're seeing
13:42
Speaker 3: for these electrical stimulation studies. And so the big and
13:46
Speaker 3: obvious question is how is it doing it? And the
13:48
Speaker 3: answer is, according to a couple of recent papers on this,
13:51
Speaker 3: is it's showing it's been shown to stimulate dopamine. So
13:58
Speaker 3: this electrical stimulation is causing dopamine stimulation in the right
14:03
Speaker 3: parts of the brain where it's applied in the right way,
14:06
Speaker 3: it's causing dopamine stimulation. So it's an artificial way of
14:11
Speaker 3: inducing focus. So yeah, we could do a little experiment
14:14
Speaker 3: on Tiff, because you know she's when she's craving food
14:19
Speaker 3: and it's making her angry. You could stimulate dopamine by
14:23
Speaker 3: putting one of these things on her head and see
14:26
Speaker 3: if the cravings go away, and according to the studies,
14:29
Speaker 3: there's a good chance they would. So that's the kind
14:33
Speaker 3: of thing we're talking about, which is an artificial stimulation
14:36
Speaker 3: of dopamine, which is of course the way everyone is
14:39
Speaker 3: treating ADHD now. So ADHD is artificial, is treated with
14:45
Speaker 3: artificial stimulation dopamine using drugs, So we know how to
14:48
Speaker 3: stimulate dopamine very very easily. You give people a stimulant drug,
14:53
Speaker 3: you know, like ADHD medication or cocaine or any other stimulant.
14:58
Speaker 3: Not sorry, not advocating giving cocaine into ADHD kids, but
15:01
Speaker 3: I'm just saying that the mechanism is the same. And
15:06
Speaker 3: so the interesting thing here is you're achieving that kind
15:10
Speaker 3: of result, but not with a drug and also not
15:16
Speaker 3: with any herbal gerbil you know, prayer mat or anything.
15:21
Speaker 3: You're doing it with a piece of technology. Now the
15:26
Speaker 3: interesting question there is is that better Is that a
15:32
Speaker 3: better way to do this than using a drug or
15:35
Speaker 3: using something else that stimulates over I mean, so people
15:38
Speaker 3: have been able to self treat and self medicate all
15:42
Speaker 3: of these symptoms themselves by giving themselves a stimulant like smoking.
15:45
Speaker 3: So people you know they're suffering stress or suffering cravings,
15:49
Speaker 3: that they know that smoking is a solution, or drinking
15:52
Speaker 3: is a solution, or getting on insta is a solution,
15:56
Speaker 3: or playing a video game is a solution, because all
15:58
Speaker 3: of those things stimulate dopamine. Eating a carrot or eating
16:03
Speaker 3: a carrot, desiring the carrot is what stimulates the dopamine.
16:08
Speaker 3: The eating of it is the satisfaction of it. So
16:13
Speaker 3: the interesting question there is, Okay, so we know we
16:17
Speaker 3: can this is no miracle. We can stimulate dopamine any
16:20
Speaker 3: number of ways. Why should this thing be regarded as
16:23
Speaker 3: anything more special? Well, because the study seemed to be
16:27
Speaker 3: suggesting this is all like the for what of a
16:31
Speaker 3: better term natural stimulation of dopamine that you get from
16:35
Speaker 3: finding something puts you in a state of flow. So
16:38
Speaker 3: it's not high enough and harsh enough to become addictive
16:41
Speaker 3: in its own right. You're not going to become addicted
16:44
Speaker 3: to putting the cap on twenty minutes to day. You are,
16:48
Speaker 3: in essence using it as methadine, a methadone for other addictions,
16:53
Speaker 3: which is is giving you enough of a dopamine hit
16:57
Speaker 3: to satisfy the cravings and ap to you going after
17:01
Speaker 3: the other addiction and start to address the symptoms like
17:06
Speaker 3: depression and sleep interruption and anxiety and so on. But
17:11
Speaker 3: it isn't strong enough that they're finding people are becoming
17:14
Speaker 3: addicted to this simulation.
17:18
Speaker 1: Now you're making me want to go and buy one.
17:20
Speaker 1: I'm just having a little bit of a look here
17:21
Speaker 1: on I wonder if you can find me one of
17:25
Speaker 1: those on craigslist. Iff uses and research. This is AI, everybody,
17:29
Speaker 1: so take it with a grain of salt. Cognitive enhancement, memory, learning,
17:33
Speaker 1: problem solving, improved mental health being studied for depression, addiction, anxiety.
17:39
Speaker 1: As David was talking about rehab, stroke, recovery, motor learning,
17:43
Speaker 1: pain and fatigue, some trials in chronic pain and fatigue syndromes.
17:47
Speaker 1: That's interesting and in terms of safety, generally considered safe
17:51
Speaker 1: when done properly. Mild tingling, itching or readiness, blah blah blah, rare,
17:56
Speaker 1: rare symptoms, headache, dizziness, long term effects still being studied.
18:01
Speaker 1: But it seems to I mean, we're not again everyone,
18:04
Speaker 1: as David always says, we're not advising or recommending, We're
18:07
Speaker 1: just having a chat about it. But yeah, I wonder like,
18:11
Speaker 1: is it something that needs to be your understanding anyway, David,
18:14
Speaker 1: that it needs to be used consistently or use it
18:17
Speaker 1: for a period of time and then put it back
18:19
Speaker 1: in the cupboard.
18:20
Speaker 3: Well, I guess it depends how your mileage may vary.
18:23
Speaker 3: By the way, while you were blathering on there, I
18:25
Speaker 3: did check the TGA.
18:28
Speaker 1: Hey, why when I'm sharing, am I blathering.
18:32
Speaker 3: On because you were just reading an AI answer.
18:35
Speaker 1: I was sharing some.
18:42
Speaker 3: Anyway while you were reading that AI answer.
18:44
Speaker 1: Back in therapy. You know what I'm going to need.
18:46
Speaker 1: I'm going to need some transcrani electrical stimulation from a
18:49
Speaker 1: depression from hanging out with that bastard every two weeks.
18:54
Speaker 3: Possibly, yeah, anyway, Yes, the TGA did to prove it
19:00
Speaker 3: last two weeks ago. So Australian Therapeutic Goods Administration has
19:05
Speaker 3: approved for conditions like depression and chronic pain.
19:09
Speaker 1: And so would who would prescribe that? Like, not like
19:14
Speaker 1: a psychiatrist, a GP, who like, if somebody's got issues,
19:20
Speaker 1: who's going to make that decision or prescribe or recommend that?
19:23
Speaker 3: Well, I suspect the first off, as with anything medical,
19:26
Speaker 3: would would be your GP. So they're your primary health
19:29
Speaker 3: care provider, so you know, and i'd recommend anyone listening
19:33
Speaker 3: to this who's thinking, Oh, I wouldn't mind giving that
19:35
Speaker 3: a try first first porter call, talk to your GP
19:39
Speaker 3: about it, you know, don't I don't know how easy
19:43
Speaker 3: these things are to buy, you know, or even how
19:47
Speaker 3: you get access to them, but they are approved for
19:50
Speaker 3: certain uses in Australia and that's interesting because it's new,
19:54
Speaker 3: and more interesting to me because it's a completely different
19:58
Speaker 3: way of approaching this. The only other time I've seen
20:01
Speaker 3: technology used as a cure for depression or anxiety is
20:06
Speaker 3: a group in the United States that came out last
20:08
Speaker 3: year and they got the equivalent of TGA approved approval
20:12
Speaker 3: in the United States on what it was, essentially a
20:15
Speaker 3: video game. And I think we may have even talked
20:19
Speaker 3: about it.
20:21
Speaker 1: I vaguely remember a brief chat about that.
20:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and and my point at the time was, well,
20:29
Speaker 3: of course video games stimulate overman, so you would imagine
20:33
Speaker 3: that that would work. This first time anyone had ever
20:36
Speaker 3: gotten therapeutic approval for the use of a video game.
20:40
Speaker 3: The problem with a video game as a solution here
20:44
Speaker 3: is that it's like saying, my solution to my cocaine
20:47
Speaker 3: addiction is more cocaine. And the problem, by the way,
20:53
Speaker 3: it's an ad running around at the moment where they
20:56
Speaker 3: say guys suffering from nicotine cravings and they call it
21:01
Speaker 3: that on the ad. I can't remember this, so I
21:03
Speaker 3: think the ads for nicorettes suffering for nicotine craving and
21:09
Speaker 3: they say the solution is nicotine.
21:13
Speaker 1: I know what that's dawn on me. I'm like, he's
21:16
Speaker 1: got yeah, so let's give him nicotine to stop the
21:19
Speaker 1: nicotine crave.
21:20
Speaker 3: That's right. Do want to add for someone who's adicted to
21:22
Speaker 3: cocaine and say, well, the solution is you need some
21:24
Speaker 3: more cocaine. So guess what, we've got some for you.
21:28
Speaker 1: We've got cocaine chewing gum or cocaine patches for you.
21:32
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, And that's the problem is, that's why these
21:36
Speaker 3: things are not solutions. It's why drinking is not a
21:38
Speaker 3: solution to alcoholism, even though it does make you feel
21:41
Speaker 3: better immediately and does remove most of the symptoms because
21:46
Speaker 3: you are stimulating dopamine, which will help the problem is
21:51
Speaker 3: that usually you're stimulating it too high. You raise the
21:53
Speaker 3: delta foss B threshold. Remember that's the resistance they've offered dopamine,
21:57
Speaker 3: and every time you raise it, you make it harder
21:59
Speaker 3: to break it next time. The interesting thing about this
22:03
Speaker 3: is this seems like it might be soft enough and
22:05
Speaker 3: slow enough that it isn't quite reaching enough of a
22:08
Speaker 3: threshold to do that, and we used over time may
22:13
Speaker 3: well reduce those symptoms and bring you back down to
22:16
Speaker 3: a more normal level, which is after all what I
22:18
Speaker 3: advocate people do without drugs anyway, which is find that
22:22
Speaker 3: flow state, find that focus state that allows you to
22:25
Speaker 3: do it. And I guess this is the ozempic of
22:27
Speaker 3: mental health here in that if you can't be bothered
22:29
Speaker 3: doing that, then maybe there's a shortcut here if you.
22:34
Speaker 1: Had your hand up three minutes ago and David just plow.
22:37
Speaker 3: Just ignore it. You know why, Tiff, because I have
22:40
Speaker 3: on my screen Craig has made it. I'm sure this
22:42
Speaker 3: is something he's done. It's made, He's made him the
22:45
Speaker 3: feature thing in the So you're just a little icon
22:50
Speaker 3: up in the corner for me, How on.
22:51
Speaker 1: Earth am I blamed for what's going on on your
22:55
Speaker 1: computering points?
22:56
Speaker 2: Land?
22:57
Speaker 1: If what's your question for.
22:59
Speaker 4: I would interested how what's his name? How closely related
23:05
Speaker 4: or not? This process is to electric electroconvulsive therapy.
23:11
Speaker 3: Not really, not really, not not really. So this is
23:15
Speaker 3: very low voltages and applied to very specific parts of
23:19
Speaker 3: the brain that are known to be receptive to this.
23:22
Speaker 3: So you can't just get out some batteries and you know,
23:26
Speaker 3: wire them up to your brain. Craig was going to
23:33
Speaker 3: hook himself up to a car battery.
23:36
Speaker 1: I need some bloody cranial stimulation, some cognitive enhancement.
23:42
Speaker 3: So this is this is quite when you look at
23:45
Speaker 3: the studies on this and look at the various I mean,
23:48
Speaker 3: there's several different types of it, but look at the
23:51
Speaker 3: way they've been studying and the type they've used and
23:53
Speaker 3: how they've used it. It's really very precise stuff. So
23:58
Speaker 3: it's and it's very low voltage. So this is this
24:01
Speaker 3: is intended to be. And that's why in that AI
24:04
Speaker 3: you were reading out before, Craig, they were saying, you know,
24:07
Speaker 3: in terms of harm, there's no real evidence of harm
24:11
Speaker 3: from this.
24:12
Speaker 1: Now now he's listening to the AI. A minute ago
24:15
Speaker 1: it was bullshit, and now he's fucking referencing it. I
24:18
Speaker 1: tell you what. But I wonder, David, now that this
24:21
Speaker 1: has been approved, I wonder what practically that means. I
24:24
Speaker 1: wonder if that's going to be I wonder if we'll
24:27
Speaker 1: see that being used, you know, more and more to
24:31
Speaker 1: treat people with these issues.
24:33
Speaker 3: The interesting bit, and this is the bit I'm really
24:36
Speaker 3: interested in, and I've seen some preliminary work in this
24:40
Speaker 3: is the idea that perhaps this could be used for
24:42
Speaker 3: treatment of ADHD, which remember from our discussions, you know,
24:47
Speaker 3: along the way here, ADHD is the sort of the
24:50
Speaker 3: first stop on the highway to anxiety and depression as
24:54
Speaker 3: a result of your dopemine levels being too low because
24:57
Speaker 3: of addiction and stress. And this should be a reasonable
25:04
Speaker 3: solution to that, certainly a more reasonable solution than the
25:07
Speaker 3: giving kids drugs. If it works. I think it probably should,
25:13
Speaker 3: just theoretically, and so other people are certainly thinking along
25:17
Speaker 3: those lines as well, because there are trials underway in
25:20
Speaker 3: that respect.
25:23
Speaker 1: Well, I will be interested to see what happens. Tip
25:27
Speaker 1: would you do it?
25:27
Speaker 2: If you google it as we speak? Now? How much?
25:30
Speaker 1: If you can get a home? See if you can
25:35
Speaker 1: get a home kid, jump start your brain off your motorbike.
25:41
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what.
25:42
Speaker 2: For it now.
25:44
Speaker 1: Well that's interesting, Well, mate, I think we're done. There
25:47
Speaker 1: was anything else, anything else going on before you go
25:50
Speaker 1: anything on planet Gillespie. That's bloody going off like a
25:53
Speaker 1: frog in a sock.
25:54
Speaker 3: Do we look there? I'm setting up in websit here.
25:58
Speaker 3: This is it? You know how you're always tell me
25:59
Speaker 3: how I wish at marketing and you're right.
26:02
Speaker 1: Well, yeah you are.
26:05
Speaker 3: Well I've sorted that. Well, I'm on the way to
26:08
Speaker 3: sorting that out and so from now on, all people
26:12
Speaker 3: have to remember is my name. So you just go
26:13
Speaker 3: to David Gillespie dot org and you'll see links to
26:16
Speaker 3: all the articles that we talk about, and as a
26:19
Speaker 3: special feature, I'm even going to put links to these
26:22
Speaker 3: chats on that website.
26:24
Speaker 1: Shit, well, it's about time you dragged yourself out of
26:28
Speaker 1: the bloody nineteen seventies and got yourself, you know, an
26:31
Speaker 1: electronic brochure, a front of housefo you dot org tip?
26:37
Speaker 1: What have you discovered? Have you got a home kid yet?
26:41
Speaker 2: Cool? Eighteen hundred and I'll have one in the mail.
26:45
Speaker 1: What is it? Read out? What you're looking at?
26:48
Speaker 2: Well, now I'm asking chatters about it because I like chatters.
26:51
Speaker 1: To tell me, oh no, don't ask chatters. All right,
26:54
Speaker 1: that'll do, Doctor Gillespie. We appreciate. We'll say goodbye affair,
26:58
Speaker 1: but mate, thanks for the chat. Always always good to
27:01
Speaker 1: catch up.
27:02
Speaker 3: Good to chat