Latest / Project Podcast / Crisis Talks – Sonia Sharma, Channel 4

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Crisis Talks – Sonia Sharma, Channel 4 · Project Podcast

0:02
Welcome to the IPM podcast. APM is the childhood body for
0:06
the project profession. Hi, I'm Emma divita.
0:09
The editor of project apm's quarterly journal and this our
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crisis talk season of podcasts. I'll be asking project
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professionals to share their stories of managing and pivoting
0:20
their projects as the world has turned upside down around them.
0:23
So thanks for joining me in this episode.
0:26
We'll be meeting Sonia Sharma, head of planning and corporate.
0:30
Direct management office at British broadcaster channel for
0:33
which has become for many of us. One of the most important ways
0:36
to entertain ourselves at home in lockdown.
0:39
Its programming has had to radically alter from covering
0:42
planned sporting events. Like the now Persephone Tokyo
0:45
Paralympics to DIY programs made by celebrities in their own
0:49
homes like Grace and Perry's Art Club behind the scenes at the
0:53
broadcaster forced change. Has gone much deeper than just
0:56
altering program schedules as Sonia.
0:58
Explain to me. She describes her job as doing
1:02
more with less using budget resources and time in the most
1:05
effective way for the business Channel. 4 is an organization of
1:09
low project management maturity. And her main responsibilities
1:13
are to develop an embed an enterprise-wide project
1:15
management office. The tricky part.
1:18
She says is working in a culture where people don't want to be
1:20
constrained by process and bureaucracy.
1:23
They need to be allowed to have freedom to be creative.
1:26
Find imbalances, the art, and how to introduce new project
1:29
management. Sepsis key.
1:32
I spoke to Sonia from her home in the middle of May and we pick
1:35
up the conversation with her. She explains.
1:38
What's her role at Channel 4 covers.
1:42
Hi Sonia. Thanks for joining us.
1:44
First he could you give us an outline of your role and the
1:48
pmo's work at Channel 4. Yeah, sure.
1:52
Great to be here. Some, my role at Channel 4 is, I
1:56
run the Enterprise p.m. I started the role beginning of
2:00
last year prior to that. I was sort of spending two years
2:04
or so setting up the technology. Pmo.
2:08
So that kind of led into the role that I'm doing now, which
2:11
pretty much Is what I was doing at technology putting in place
2:16
processes and procedures and governance and rather than just
2:21
the technology department looking at this across the whole
2:24
organization. So I mean Channel 4 is a very
2:28
low maturity organization from a sort of project point of view.
2:32
So I guess the interesting part of the role is about how I
2:40
actually put those Features and processes in and just to give a
2:45
bit of background Channel 4 has what 800 800 employees.
2:50
Yes. We have around 800 employees.
2:52
How many project managers or how big is the pmo?
2:55
Because I know you said it's low maturity.
2:58
But could you give us a bit background?
3:00
Yeah. So the pmo the Enterprise p.m.
3:02
I was just myself. So it's I guess what you call.
3:06
I think I've heard the phrase poo a pmo of one and the
3:11
technology pmo. Slightly bigger.
3:12
It's actually a pot a pmo of to. So there's very few of us to
3:17
pmo's and I think a lot of that is just to do with the fact that
3:21
it is a very New Concept for Channel 4.
3:28
And even project management is a very New Concept.
3:30
So in terms of number of project managers, we've only really got
3:34
within technology about 20 or so, and then across the
3:39
business, a lot less, say a probably about a hand.
3:42
You'll probably five or six and most of them are bought in as
3:45
and when we do big project, so we don't have a pool, a such of
3:50
project managers, when I came to interview you last year for the
3:54
cover story for project. In Autumn, 2019.
4:00
You'd ready-made, massive amount of progress in terms of
4:04
introducing project management to a broadcaster like Channel 4.
4:11
So I'm sure you were very pleased with the progress.
4:14
You are making. And then obviously, in March
4:18
comes the coronavirus crisis. I was wondering if you could
4:23
cast your mind back to the end of March and the beginning of
4:27
lockdown. Could you talk us through what
4:30
those early weeks were like for you and how that lockdown
4:34
affected your work? And the pmo's work as she feels
4:37
for quite long time ago. It's only really nine.
4:40
Exon and mean prior to that, I guess just to put into context.
4:44
So I've been doing, as you say some work building up the
4:50
Enterprise, pmo building up the portfolio for less than a year
4:54
or so, and then we actually appointed a transformation
4:58
director to help us with the big transformation program across
5:02
the organization. So, we just started that the
5:06
beginning of February and then as you say, The covid hit we
5:11
left Channel 4. Think a week before the actual
5:13
official look down. And I think the first couple of
5:17
weeks we really quite chaotic. So people weren't really sure
5:21
what to do. So there was a sort of period of
5:24
do. We keep doing what we were doing
5:26
before or you know, how do we adjust?
5:28
So, I think it took about a week or so to get into some sorts of
5:35
some form of order. And actually, what we did is use
5:39
the Confirmation director and her experience of working with
5:44
crisis situations and very, very quickly within a week.
5:47
Actually. We set up some covid-19
5:51
governance. So we got even running now for
5:55
work streams, people Finance procurement and Tekken projects,
6:00
and we kick them off within a week twice a week.
6:03
So eight calls in a week for an hour with a, quite a clear
6:08
agenda in terms of, what we Were trying to achieve within each
6:11
one and who was going to be involved in that and then that
6:15
governance started running and then alongside that there was
6:18
some reporting to the exec that went up to help and enable them
6:22
with their decision-making. So I think that was really key
6:26
at that time of Crisis. So there was a lot of work that
6:29
was being done. Then I think the other thing we
6:31
had to do was really look at. Then our priorities and our
6:35
portfolio and and start to think about how do we actually Out to
6:40
manage that, can you tell me what projects you are working at
6:43
the time. So that's interesting to find
6:45
out about the transformation program that you are embarking
6:48
on. But perhaps for those who don't
6:50
know much about it. When I spoke to you, you had
6:53
Super X projects. I remember.
6:56
But could you tell it give us a bit of background about the
6:58
transformation that channel for was undertaking before this
7:02
started and what's happened to those projects if you're able to
7:06
tell us. So the Super X Project was still
7:09
sore. Of living and breathing.
7:10
If you like they were all big projects from a strategic point
7:15
of view, from a financial point of view and were being followed
7:20
through what I was then doing sort of moving to the next phase
7:23
of things. As part of the transformation is
7:25
then looking at everything else. So we'd started then
7:29
categorizing all of the portfolio as that's correct, but
7:33
then we have platinum, gold, bronze, silver, and also looking
7:39
at What we called an execution Engine with with okay, if we're
7:42
putting these all these projects into a hopper.
7:45
How do we manage that? What stage gate process is do we
7:48
put in place Waters of the business cases that we need to
7:50
look at and and put a lot more sort of controls and processes
7:55
in place to make that happen and the other parts of the
7:59
transformation were around strategy.
8:02
So that's been quite a big missing part for us at Channel 4
8:08
and am quite What fundamental for the work that we do in the
8:13
pmo? So there was a big bit of work
8:17
as part of the transformation to start to build that and connect
8:21
that with the execution engine. So it was that was the strategy,
8:24
the Nations and regions strategy, that involve channel
8:27
for relocating, some of its HQ to lead and the creative hubs in
8:32
Glasgow and Bristol, that was part of it.
8:35
So, I think we're really looking at longer term as well.
8:39
We're looking at where do we actually see ourselves in kind
8:44
of ten years time? So as a business, we already
8:49
sort of knew be pre covid. The we had to make some
8:53
fundamental changes in how we are operating.
8:55
People were not watching Leah TV, you know, the viewing
8:59
Figures were not as good as what we usually had and, you know,
9:03
from a sort of competition point of view for the next exam has
9:07
and we weren't getting the young views that we needed.
9:09
So, they needed to be sort of a shift in that way.
9:13
So a lot of that work was about, what directions do we go in and
9:18
starting to think about what are the actual options and what are
9:21
the actual possibilities? So that's kind of what that was.
9:25
I think Nations and regions was pretty much, I guess I guess
9:29
closed off in a way. We had our leads building sort
9:33
of in the middle of being opened.
9:36
It actually was one of the projects that got stopped.
9:38
What's happening to that. The moment I guess all work has
9:41
just been paused on it. Yeah, so as I was part of the
9:45
sort of the prioritization exercise, what we had to do is
9:48
really look at everything that was on the table.
9:50
So as I mentioned although C / X projects and one of them was the
9:55
The Majestic one of them, you know, such as was a number of
9:58
other things as well. And then we just had to make a
10:01
really clear call based on business continuity and
10:08
everything else. So What are the key things that
10:11
need to keep on going to keep our business running and what
10:15
are the other thing? So we actually built, what we
10:18
call the prioritization ladder, to do that, to provide some sort
10:22
of logic, and, and justification for that.
10:25
So, that sort of started with number one being no cash savings
10:29
meant that, we've already made commitments, number two, being
10:33
mandatory stuff. So there might be that actually
10:36
because a legal reason for carrying on with this project.
10:41
And then we look at sort of strong business cases and
10:46
anything that, you know, would give a good return on investment
10:50
and then for was strategic capability.
10:53
So we're we're looking to the Future focused and putting
10:56
projects in to be ready to manage those priorities.
11:02
And then discretionary was the last one.
11:04
So actually what we did is said anything that's mandatory or no
11:09
cash. Saving so bucket, sort of one
11:11
and two we keep doing and anything else stops.
11:17
And sort of the Majestic project was was not in the one or two.
11:23
It was more of a strong business case.
11:27
So it made sense to kind of do that.
11:29
And then, then we have to look at sort of the, the rest of the
11:32
stuff and, and kind of understand how we're going to
11:35
manage all of that ongoing. This will happen quite fast.
11:38
I imagine those Kind of early weeks of the crisis.
11:42
Was it a lot about making decisions quickly.
11:46
What was the team working like together?
11:48
Because this is an unusual time. And I've been very impressed by
11:52
the amount of collaboration Focus kind of determination that
11:56
organizations have shown. Did it.
11:59
Did you find that that everyone understood quickly?
12:03
What needed to be done? Because certainly it sounds as
12:07
though, there were lots of extra processes and Systems and
12:11
governance that hadn't existed. Before that you had to put in
12:14
place quickly. How easy was it to pull that
12:17
off. It was actually quite amazing.
12:19
How quickly we did that. I think the governance really
12:21
helped, because that got people into the right frame of mind
12:26
that actually, we've got to take quick action.
12:29
We've got to do what's necessary and the Cadence of having it
12:34
sort of twice a week, meant that we were really looking.
12:39
Being for results quite quickly. And I think everyone was sort
12:43
of, in a bit of a mindset to do what's necessary.
12:46
So, in my role, sort of changed a lot at that point to help
12:50
coordinate, all of this and understand all the other acts,
12:54
but expert, that, you know, usually wouldn't be really
12:56
getting involved in. So we think it was quite
12:59
interesting. How quickly did that?
13:00
But as you say, the pace of work was very, very different to what
13:04
people were normally sort of working out what they were used
13:08
to. And then, On top of that, you've
13:10
got all the challenges about doing it virtually, and all the
13:14
challenges that people have at home with children, schooling
13:18
dependence or whatever else. It might be.
13:20
So it was actually quite amazing with all of that going on.
13:24
How quickly we sort of managed to get into action mode.
13:28
What would you say? Has been the biggest effects of
13:31
the crisis for Channel 4. I know Channel 4 has had to deal
13:34
with the cancellation of sporting events, not least the
13:37
Tokyo Paralympics, which have been passed.
13:39
Into next year, so I imagine that's had a big effect on
13:43
Advertising revenues and the financial side of things as a
13:48
business where publicly owned and privately funded through ad
13:51
revenues. So as you say our most
13:55
fundamental effect is on our is financially.
13:59
So we really trying to do whatever's necessary to maintain
14:04
our financial position. So I think that's really been.
14:08
Number one, Focus. As for everyone.
14:12
But then on the content side as you say, we've had quite a
14:14
number of the big events the paralympic, some of the sporting
14:17
events that Formula 1 cancelled, which has then meant that we've
14:22
lost a lot of Revenue. But also we've had to then
14:25
change the schedule and I think the it's quite interesting
14:30
because there's a lot of doing more with less that's has had to
14:34
happen and in terms of production as well cut to be
14:39
more creative. Then they were even before so
14:41
the creatives have got even more creative.
14:43
So things like the step show we had to actually launch it in a
14:47
very different way or decided to launch in a very different way
14:50
to what we were originally anticipating to do.
14:53
So, we had Steph in her house filming from her home and and
14:59
then yeah, I think a lot of the shows now, you probably say that
15:02
they're quite low budget, but really quite interesting in
15:06
terms of the concept and what we're trying to do and a lot The
15:09
factual stuff has gone gone down really well, actually, which
15:13
kind of things because I was about to say, I'm a massive fan
15:15
of the Grayson Perry Art Club as a public sector broadcasting.
15:18
We sort of got part of our remit to make sure people are kept
15:22
really well informed. And I think a lot of the the
15:25
covid sort of information around what's going on and even our
15:31
news broadcasts have really grown in popularity as well.
15:35
So people look to us to find out what's really happening.
15:41
So I think that's been really positive.
15:43
So actually from a viewing figures point of view.
15:45
We've been doing really really well, but unfortunately, it
15:48
doesn't always translate into revenue for us.
15:51
Yeah. So hence your focus as an
15:55
organization and cost savings absolutely.
15:58
Now that kind of early crisis management phase is over.
16:03
I get the impression that everyone now, within businesses
16:07
needing to move towards a steady estate as we begin to unlock.
16:14
Can you tell me how things are now at Channel 4 for you, what
16:18
your priorities are and what's top of your agenda?
16:22
Now? We had what we called our crisis
16:24
management phase. Where did you say?
16:27
We looked at sort of opportunities and savings and we
16:31
stopped what was necessary. It's about how do we bring all
16:35
that back? And obviously it's not starting
16:37
to come back yet, but there will be a point when it does.
16:41
And it's I guess the first thing is really about, what are the
16:45
indicators. How do we know when we start
16:47
bringing these things back? What are the things that we need
16:50
to look out for my boss? Always jokes.
16:53
It's like when McDonald's is open then, you know, it's a sign
16:56
but it is things like that, you know, that we need to look for.
17:00
So and then when we do that it My role is really about, okay,
17:05
when that starts to happen. How do we make sure that we've
17:08
got the controls in place to maintain what we've already
17:14
done. So I sort of feel like, we've a
17:16
bit like what everyone's doing at home, you know, we've got a
17:19
lot of fat. So we've been a bit of a machine
17:23
kind of doing lots of workouts and we've got to a place where
17:26
we doubt very very lean and now it's about maintaining it.
17:32
So, how do we do that? And make sure we've got sort of
17:35
all the controls in place, but we don't want to be too heavy
17:38
about it. So it needs to still be simple
17:41
and getting that balance, right? I think is probably the most
17:44
difficult thing but because we've actually I think it has
17:47
been a really good opportunity for the me and for the pmo
17:52
because we've had to use a lot of the information that we had.
17:56
And we've actually got to a point where we've got a lot more
18:00
information than we had before, but it's He's now about managing
18:05
that and making sure that we don't lose sight of what we have
18:08
already done. What information information
18:11
about where projects are right. Now, that kind of thing.
18:14
Yeah, exactly exactly that. So, so through the exercise of
18:19
stopping starting prioritizing, we've actually gathered a lot
18:22
more information about what's going on.
18:24
Who owns them where they are in the cycle and a and for a few of
18:31
them that wanted to continue. Business cases as well.
18:34
So this is quite revolutionary for us to start to get people to
18:39
think in that way. So I think that's been really
18:42
good, but it's about that sort of slow, bring back and and
18:47
really sort of knowing and managing that those next steps.
18:51
I think the other bit that is really important.
18:53
I think is probably the biggest priorities, the communication
18:56
piece. Everyone's obviously, working
18:58
from home at the moment and keeping everyone.
19:03
An informed about what's going on, unless you're involved in
19:07
it. You probably don't know.
19:10
So, there's a lot of people that still kind of feel like it's
19:13
still business as usual some that are totally unaware.
19:17
That we've actually got a situation on.
19:19
I guess it's a bit like, old the tele Zone and we're showing
19:21
programs must be. All right.
19:23
I think there's a bit of sort of making sure that, you know, so
19:26
that communication is constant. And, you know, there are sort of
19:30
no surprises if you like in terms of where we are.
19:32
And what's going to Next and then also, in terms of the the
19:36
work that we're doing on controls, making sure that
19:39
people know what to expect when perhaps they want to bring back
19:44
their project. Perhaps it want to start
19:47
something new that. Actually we're in a different
19:50
world now and to do that, you are going to have to do things
19:53
differently. Do you feel as though they've
19:56
been some positives for the pmo that have come through?
19:59
This crisis? Not least, I guess getting
20:01
people to Formalize stuff more. So, there's better process that
20:06
you talked about people needing to create business cases for
20:10
projects, which previously Channel 4 wasn't really doing.
20:14
And if so, is there a need for you to get people to understand
20:20
that? It isn't just a temporary thing
20:22
that it's just not just for covid-19, but that it's going to
20:25
be a permanent state of being after this.
20:28
Yeah, absolutely. And it's one of my sort of
20:31
biggest fears. I think the In terms of
20:33
positives, yet. The pmos definitely recognized
20:38
as a valuable resource, which wasn't the case before.
20:42
There was a lot of what do you do?
20:44
And I think now that having been through the situation where
20:49
we've had a lot of the information that we needed to
20:51
and being able to act on it quite quickly because the pmo
20:53
was in place that's been recognized.
20:56
So I think that's been a real big positive for us.
20:58
And then, because now, I guess, as I mentioned before, we've cut
21:01
a lot of the fat out and we're in this, Place where we're very
21:04
lean and we want to maintain that.
21:06
Again, the leadership, and the exact understand the need for
21:11
control, and the fact that, you know, the pmo will be the team
21:16
that sort of needs to put in place those controls and, and,
21:20
and help to make sure that there are dear to.
21:22
So, I think from that point of view, the pmo is definitely more
21:25
recognized and valued. And as I mentioned before, I
21:28
think another positive is that the information that's now
21:31
available, which wasn't People before I think the other sort of
21:36
positive is really around remote working previously that was not
21:42
accepted by all departments and some people would be like a
21:45
working working from home. You definitely not working.
21:47
Where's now I think when we do eventually go back there is
21:52
going to be a lot more flexible working on offer and I think,
21:55
you know, having had to move so quickly into the suit new world.
22:00
It is going to be more accepted by those people that Previously
22:04
didn't understand how that could work.
22:06
But I guess going back to your point in terms of that sort of
22:08
fear of moving into that next phase.
22:12
I think it's really interesting because I always think about
22:14
with moved so fast and people have just done it because they
22:18
have had to really, but I always worry about.
22:20
Well, do they really know why we need to continue doing these
22:24
things? And when we then back into
22:27
steady state then will they continue to do them?
22:30
Because if they don't understand that big picture, Then they
22:33
haven't really got that understanding of why they're
22:36
doing what they're doing. So, I think that's a really
22:39
important message and I think that that sort of something we
22:43
have to manage as the pmo in terms of people not going or
22:46
being able to go back to their old ways.
22:48
And that's a lot of communications support.
22:50
And I think also how we balance the the process is to keep them
22:55
really simple and effective. I wanted to pick up on
22:58
communication because I know certainly that at Channel 4,
23:02
you're dealing with people. For the large part who kind of
23:05
creative they don't necessarily like being rule-bound and
23:10
they're probably unfamiliar with project management terms.
23:14
And I know you've been successful in speaking to people
23:19
in a way they understand, and how are you communicating the
23:24
pmos aims and needs to the rest of the organization in a way
23:28
that people get, I don't think they really need to know that
23:32
it's the pmo. It's more about the business and
23:36
and what we're doing is based on strategy of the business.
23:40
So what we need to do as a pmo is translate that strategy into
23:46
what they're doing on a day-to-day basis.
23:48
And I think that's where we come in as those connectors and I
23:52
think that's where people then start to see why what they're
23:56
doing is important and we don't have that connection yet,
23:59
unfortunately, because we didn't manage to start doing that
24:02
strategy work. Mentioned at the beginning, but
24:05
I think that is really the key of, you know, making sure that
24:09
people that don't really get the pmo still do what we need them
24:14
to do. And that's mainly based on the
24:16
fact that they understand why, then why they're doing what
24:19
they're doing. How are you communicating in
24:21
this virtual world? Is it mostly Zoom calls?
24:25
How's it working? What's working?
24:26
Well for you and your colleagues at the moment.
24:29
So we use Skype and we have a lot of I sort of called.
24:34
So as mentioned with the governance, we've got those on a
24:36
substandard bi-weekly Cadence and I think that works because
24:42
that makes sure that we're talking about the same things.
24:44
Then we have Team calls that been Puttin on a regular basis
24:49
and I have a daily catch up with that with the team as of 9:00
24:52
every day, and I think it's really useful having those in
24:55
because that just means that you've got a little bit of
24:57
informal catch-up time. But also then you've got the
25:01
formal sort of okay. Is where we need to get stuff
25:04
done time as well. But I do really miss the, the
25:07
coffee chat really do miss, you know, being around people with
25:11
it is really hard. I think that the hardest thing
25:14
is, I guess we're now in the transition phase starting to
25:19
build some of those processes or rebuild, some of those
25:21
processes. And I feel like I'm sort of
25:23
locked up in a little room, trying to do that on my own,
25:27
whereas it would have been, you know, a lot of other people in
25:29
the room with, you know, flip charts and pens and lots of Of
25:33
conversation and really sort of seeing the whites people's eyes.
25:36
When you say something that they really don't get, and I think
25:39
it's, you know, you can try and do some of that virtually, but
25:44
it's really hard. I think that's that's probably
25:46
one of the hardest things is, when you're sort of really
25:48
designing and looking at ideas and trying to bring people into
25:52
that. What have been the biggest
25:54
challenges for you personally? Trying to do your work in
25:59
lockdown. I think it's probably people
26:01
again, I guess I From a corporate environment.
26:04
So I'm quite used to quite a fast pace of working where is
26:08
channel for the majority of people that benefit quite a long
26:11
time and not. And as we've moved into covid,
26:14
we've had to get people that are not used to working at that
26:18
pace. Working at that place very, very
26:20
quickly. And that's put a lot of pressure
26:22
on them because then as I mentioned earlier, they've got
26:25
obviously the their own issues or challenges at home or
26:29
whatever is going on and it's just really, really, really
26:33
Hard. So I've had, then I've sort of
26:36
become a bit of an Agony On, in a way where people have been
26:39
going. Oh, I really can't release this.
26:41
And I'm just because, I guess you're sort of that Center Point
26:43
in terms of trying to get people to do what they need to do, and,
26:48
you know, to another place. You're also that person they
26:52
talk to when they're really feeling really stressed and they
26:55
can't, they really can't keep up.
26:57
So there's a, there's a bit of that which is a bit of
26:59
challenge, which I don't mind doing at all.
27:01
I love doing that talking to people.
27:03
But it's then, having that time, then to do the work because
27:07
you're spending a lot of time on calls like that.
27:10
So, I think that's been quite tough.
27:13
Have you been working very long hours?
27:15
Yes, I have. I have.
27:17
So, I think the first couple of weeks were long, long, long days
27:21
and weekends just to get things set up and running pretty much
27:25
chain to my little room and my little desk most of the day.
27:29
So I'm really, it's really bad. I do have to, you know, make a
27:32
conscious. This effort of getting up and
27:34
going for a walk and doing that. But but yeah, it is really easy
27:38
to do that, though, isn't it? I think, and I think it's quite
27:42
nice to actually do this this podcast because it's got me to
27:47
sort of sit back a little bit and reflect because you're such
27:49
a day in day out, fire fighting and just trying to get stuff
27:53
done, but you're never really sitting down and going.
27:55
Okay. What did I actually get from
27:57
this? What did I learn from this?
27:58
So, this is quite a nice exercise to talk to you about it
28:01
and it and it takes me away from that day.
28:03
Help. Well, that's that's something to
28:05
here. I was going to ask you what you
28:06
think the most important important lessons have been for
28:09
you so far for me. I think responding fast when
28:14
you're in a crisis is something that you really do have to do,
28:17
we think and we managed to do that.
28:21
I think that was really good and actually adding order or some
28:25
logic into the chaos that you're in is really, really helpful.
28:30
So I was having our prioritization ladder.
28:33
The and and helping people to sort of go.
28:36
Okay, I can see why that you know that needs to happen or can
28:40
see why that doesn't happen. So I think the logic side of
28:43
things is important to, I think something that I was thinking
28:46
about is that actually people were there people change
28:49
resistant but considered think they are anymore because this
28:52
think I think people do what they need to do.
28:55
If they know why and they don't really have any other options
28:58
are just going to do it. So I think that's a really good
29:01
lesson as a pmo because When you're actually designing
29:05
processes and trying to sort of move people into a direction, it
29:10
goes back to that why? And be really clear about that.
29:14
Why to them? And also I guess with the
29:16
process side of things, not being, not given them too many
29:19
options. So there is really only one
29:22
rule. I think that's a good lesson
29:24
that I've learned through this. I think the other one is really
29:27
just to be ready. There's something I've some
29:29
hurts. Somebody say some time ago is
29:31
that yes, you should run project.
29:33
Act in a way that no one's going to be coming in tomorrow.
29:37
I mean, currently we run them in a way that everyone's going to
29:39
be coming in. But if you run it on a way that
29:42
no one's coming in tomorrow, then you sort of able to be at a
29:46
point in time where you can stop something and it's all packaged
29:50
up and ready to be picked up when you're ready to pick it up.
29:55
And I think that's a really great lessons for pmo's and
29:57
project managers to try as much as possible to keep things in a
30:01
state where they can, Left and picked up in a month or
30:06
whatever. However, my, whatever the
30:08
Cadence is, whatever time scales are, that sounds like a nice
30:11
place to be a, you in that place.
30:14
No, definitely not. Yeah, I think a lot of our
30:19
projects are not in that place. I think some of the work that we
30:23
need to do now is about where we're picking up those projects,
30:29
which I think we literally just cut them off.
30:31
So, In Italy, we weren't working in that way.
30:35
So what we need to do is last sort of start sort of packaging,
30:39
the backup and tying that bow on where we need to or lifting them
30:42
back up, dusting them off and seeing where we what we need to
30:47
do with them. So some of them might be okay
30:49
actually with furloughed the resource or it was a contract
30:52
resource working on them. So now we need to find out
30:55
what's the best way of doing it. Do we need to bring that
30:57
resource back on or is there someone within our sort of
31:02
permanent resource? That can take something on to
31:05
help us and I think is about will so challenging what we left
31:09
on the Shelf as well. So sometimes it might be well
31:11
actually we can do that project but we might need to do it
31:14
slightly differently. To what we've said we were going
31:16
to do and it might be the I don't know, you change the
31:19
scope, you actually change how you're going to do things.
31:22
So a good example that we've got is the mentoring.
31:25
So we were going to do some stuff around mentoring prior to
31:29
covid but that was all sort of centered around at all.
31:31
So we sort of picked it up and is it off and said actually it's
31:34
a good time to do something now because people do need some help
31:38
and guidance, but we're not going to do with the tool.
31:40
We're going to do it sort of in a more manual way.
31:43
So I think thinking differently about some of those projects is
31:45
really really important. My final question is about the
31:50
rest of the year and trying to plan for the next 6 months,
31:53
which is just I guess various scenarios of uncertainty.
32:00
But how are you trying to kind of Them or what work might look
32:05
like for the next six months. Is it a case of simultaneously
32:09
planning for different scenarios?
32:12
Or do you feel as though this is going to be the new normal for
32:16
the rest of 2020? This year is definitely very
32:20
different what we expected and who knows what the rest of the
32:23
year is going to hold. There's just going to be and I
32:26
think is going to remain the same for the rest of the year.
32:28
So many unanswered questions. So it's really difficult to say,
32:32
I think the only only thing we can do is sort of be ready for
32:36
the what ifs and the eventualities.
32:38
So as much as possible, you know, get our project sort of
32:43
ready for that. Look at our portfolio and start
32:46
to think about the K. If we were to bring things back
32:49
in, how would we do that? What are the sort of priorities
32:53
that we need to bring back in? And and and what's the sort of
32:56
order perhaps that we need to do that in?
32:59
What logic do we use for that? And I think there's something
33:01
about this sort of strategy. If you as well, so, going back
33:05
to our overall strategy and going.
33:07
Okay, based on where we are. Now, where could we be heading
33:11
and and then based on that? What should we be doing to
33:15
support that? So I think a lot of it that's go
33:17
back to the business priorities, and being really business
33:21
focused. So that whatever the business
33:24
decides to do. We can be prepared to support
33:28
that either by providing the information to help with.
33:33
Decisions to support that, or by sort of moving in that direction
33:38
with them. Well, that just leaves the most
33:40
important question. I wanted to ask you, which is,
33:43
do you get any time to watch TV? And would you would you
33:48
recommend any channel for programs to project managers out
33:51
there? I spent a lot of time watching
33:54
the channel 4 news at which I think is great.
33:58
My kids love the friday-night dinners and in between as I
34:01
think that that Sort of stuff is great.
34:04
I think at this time you need to laugh.
34:06
You need something that's going to sort of, really get you
34:10
through this. And I think some of those the
34:12
comedies that we've got up up there, a great.
34:14
So, yeah, I think keep watching channel. 4.
34:18
Listen. Thank you so much for taking
34:21
time to speak to us. I know you're very busy and I
34:24
think project management Community out.
34:26
There will be so interested in hearing what you what your
34:30
experience has been and what lessons you right pass on to
34:33
others. So thank you again, for your
34:35
time. It's been a pleasure talking to
34:37
you. Thank you really glad to do this
34:40
been good for me. As I said great to be able to
34:43
have the time to think. Thanks again to Sonia for
34:49
joining us, and to you for listening to this episode of
34:52
apm's Crisis, talk to podcast. Watch out for our next Crisis.
34:57
Talks episode, where we meet Hannah Gledhill, senior project
35:00
manager at luxury chocolate maker Hotel.
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