Latest / The Mami Collective / How to Build Your Circle and Own Your Power with Leslee Cohen
Transcript
- Paulina: If you're a mom who needs just one night that's all about you, I need you at Mom and Easy, the Mommy Collective Summit on October 1st at the Mayfield in Chicago. We're talking incredible food and drinks, local vendors, live music, amazing raffles, inspiring conversations, and our signature panel featuring moms who are building careers, businesses, and lives they love. Plus, I'm excited to announce that Anna Belleval will be joining us as our surprise guests for a live conversation and audience Q<unk>A. Trust me, you don't want to miss this one. Grab your tickets now at theMommy Collective.com. I'll see you there. Welcome to the Mommy Collective. I'm Paulina Rowe, radio host, TV contributor, writer, and mom of one. This is where ambitious moms come to keep their identity intact while navigating motherhood. Here we talk about the real stuff: career, money, relationships, identity, and everything. Everything that gets messy in between. You won't find sugarcoating or cliches. What you will find are unfiltered conversations, real resources, and proof that you don't have to lose yourself to be a good mom. The Mommy Collective is here to remind you you can be ambitious, you can take up space, and you can thrive in motherhood and in everything else that makes you you. Before we get into the episode, make sure you're following the mommy collective on Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram. And share this podcast with a mommy in your life who needs a little inspiration or just a reminder that. She's killing it. Also, don't forget to sign up for our newsletter and leave us a review so we can keep showing up and reach every ambitious mom out there doing big things. Let's get into it. It is the Mommy Collective, another episode. We are so back, and I'm so excited about my guest today. I have Leslie Cohen joining me, all rise legal council, and just all around batty. I mean, a mom. Are you a mom of is it one or two? Two, okay. Love it. I'm considering two, so that's why I like to ask people. I'm like, should I do it? Do I do two? You should do it. Okay, 'cause I'm so tempted. I I was a one and done girl. I was like, I will never have another kid. Now I'm like, ooh, I want another kid. You have to do it for them. And that's exactly why, especially in this like chapter of my life. I I'm I get it. I think I need ⁓ my daughter might need a little support system of her own, a sibling. And ⁓ honestly I'm not mad at it. Like I like I once was, but I love that. So Leslie, how old are your kids? My kids are twenty six and twenty-three. Wow. Wow. Wow. I love that. And you are you from you're not from Chicago originally, right? I am. Yeah. You are okay, but you went to New York for school, is that what it was? I went yeah, I went to Michigan undergrad and then NYU for law school. And then I stayed there for seven years and practiced on Wall Street and then moved back in ninety eight and I've been here ever since. Amazing. So many questions I have to unpack with that. Wall Street in the nineties, what was that experience like for you? ⁓ my god, it was it it was crazy. It was fabulous, honestly. It was the days of like you didn't go anywhere without a town car picking you up and flying f like the b big companies just paid for lawyers and I was at a big firm, so flying first class everywhere, which I'd never done in my life, and staying at like in the presidential suite of the there's a w hotel I'm forgetting the name in DC. And I had to file a lot of things with the Securities and Exchange Commission. There was no internet those days. So you had to hand deliver stuff for filing to the government agencies. So, I mean, just really amazing. From a female perspective, it's kind of interesting because, and I don't know if you want to go there, but just it's kind of interesting because I actually felt more. I was the only woman. My firm was forty lawyers. I was the I wasn't the only I was the second woman ever. The other one was a was a equity partner. She looked like a man, dressed like a man, wanted nothing to do with me, didn't want to mentor me, didn't like she was she had fought for her position and she wasn't gonna like associate with like being a woman is the vibe that I got. But on the other hand, the men were much more like I felt much more like an equal. Maybe it was just that firm. There was blatant stuff. Like there was sexual harassment, which I can tell you that whole story. But that was outward. Like that was obvious and the answer is like ⁓ no. You know, and then today it's become much more subtle and underground. Like it's not okay to say the big bad things. It almost felt more comfortable then. It's a hard thing to explain, but it that's how it felt to me. Yeah, no, a hundred percent. And I I can see that in the nineties being very different than today. Absolutely. Was there like a moment that made you realize like, ⁓ okay, like I'm a woman in this space? Like you said, you're like there's men everywhere. Maybe you felt almost like this was like the norm. But was there like a moment where you were like, okay, like this is uncomfortable or like this is different? Yeah. I mean every day. Fair. I guess maybe okay, maybe this is a better way to explain it. Back then, like no there were no women. So it was like cool to be one and be in that world. It felt really good and I felt accomplished for it versus then later on when I was in the big firm world in Chicago, it was like, ⁓ we're doing a pitch and we have to bring a woman 'cause you have to have a woman on the team so they would like trot me out as the woman on the deal team. In New York, when there were no men, it felt like I made it here. Like I'm an equal to all of them and they wanted me here because I'm me. And my job, my first offer was it was they were down to a man and a woman and they chose me. So I just felt like yes, I'm different but I fit in versus like I'm the token woman that they have no choice but to include. Does that make sense? Yeah, a hundred percent. Did you feel like you had during this time, did you feel like you did have some like supportive male mentors? 'Cause it sounded like if you had a mentor, it would most likely be a male. So many. So many. In fact, I keep in very close touch with two of them to this day. They were phenomenal. Incredible. We'll get into this, but my firm is almost it's all women, one great man. And I'm all about helping female founders and all that. And yet I raised two boys. I have the best husband in the entire world. And my mentors have all been men and they've been incredible. So I am far from like anti man. Yeah, no, same here. I love it. Same here. I'm like I always have well, it's kind of a dark joke, but I'm like, may not have a dad, but have a great husband, have some great mentors in radio. It's all great. I might have a little bit of a dark humor going on, but no, I love that and I love it. So I wanna dive into all rise. So that is your firm and yes, all female, one great man. Sounds like my life because my best friend's gay, so he also helps me with mommy collection. He's a marketing team. Like I don't marketing, Leslie, I'm gonna so be so honest with you. But he handles everything and he kills it every time. When did you decide to take that step that I'm going to found my own? Like I'm doing my own thing. So that really came from I was in big law and I wanted to be an equity partner. So just to explain, law firms have when you first come in, you're an associate, that's the level, and that lasts usually like seven to ten years. And then you make partner, but there's two levels of partner. So there's income partner and equity partner. Income partner means like we want to keep you here. But you're not like an owner of the business. An equity partner is you make a hell of a lot more money. You're an owner of the business. So I was an income partner for a long time. I wanted to be an equity partner. You had to have brought in a huge amount of business to get to that point. And I had none because I was raising my kids and practicing law. And when you're in big law, you have to do pro bono work and you have to do continuing legal education. Like it's a lot to juggle. And so bringing in business just wasn't like in the cards at that time. So I wanted to be an equity partner. I went to the managing partner of the firm and said, This is something I want to do. And he said, If anyone can get there, it's you. There were no women, by the way, in that position. So he said, if anyone can get there, it's you. You gotta start playing golf and you've got to join a country club, play golf and go to like a lot of charity dinners. And that's how most of the men at my firm brought in business and they were awesome and did a great job of it. But I couldn't leave my kids. I was already working, so I couldn't leave my kids, or I didn't want to, at night and on the weekends. So I knew that wasn't gonna work for me. And so there was almost like a ceiling. Like I was never gonna get to the top. And so that's why I left. Yeah. No, that one hundred percent makes sense. Do you feel like when you became a mom, was there ever a shift for you? A shift of identity, of being like I don't want to be as much of a go-getter or or my definition now has changed. Like you said, you're like, I didn't want to leave my kids. Did something shift in you? Like brain chemistry? Yeah, a million percent. A million percent. And it was such an interesting, it was all over the board shift because I was such a career. I mean, I always knew I wanted kids, but I was such a career woman, like from birth, like I knew always. And so when I first this is funny, when I had my first son, I mean I was just like in denial about everything that was about to happen and change. So when I had my birth baby, I worked literally I went to labor that night, like I would never have taken time off before. And after I gave birth, I said we were working on an an IPO, an initial public offering, and it was the coolest deal. And I was like so upset that like was leaving to give birth in the middle. So After I gave birth I said, Can someone get me the ph like they were stitching me up and then I'm like, Can someone bring me the phone? 'Cause there were no cell phones. So I called the office and like the lead partner on the deal was like, Wait, I heard you were having your baby. I'm like, I did, he's amazing, he's perfect, I'm so in love with him. What happened in the meeting today? And he was like, Are you crazy? ⁓ my gosh. So So he's like, hang up this phone right now. And then there was the shift totally in the other direction of like, ⁓ my God, how am I ever leaving this beautiful human I created, you know? And ultimately, I think the first four months, it's like you and your baby are one and the same still. After that I went back. I was so and this has a lot to do with my vision and mission and setup at All Rise. They gave me at the firm three days a week when I had my first son and then when I had my second. two days in the office, one day at home. This was the year 2000. Like this was unheard of. There was no COVID. Nobody worked from home. Women didn't get part-time. Like I was so, so, so lucky. So, well, we'll go back to your question in a second, but that's my model at All Rise is I hire all people who need flex time so that I'm giving back the same to my peop the people who work for me as was done for me. Because that was a really spectacular gift that they gave me. In terms of your question about, you know, yes, definitely all shifted where my kids were number one, one, two, three, four, and five. And you just have to come to a new place. You have to make it work for you or not. I always say like happy mom, happy baby. For me, working was not even a question. I figured out my own ways of dealing with it. And one thing I'll say too, that I talk to a lot of young women, I mentor a lot of young women, and one thing I say is, you can never have the years with your kids back. But you cannot imagine how long your career is gonna be. So I'm fifty eight. I started my firm when I was fifty well, I left Big Law at it in at well, how was I for like forty f forty five, forty two, forty two. But I really didn't like grow this huge this firm, this make this was not my whole life, which it is now, until I was fifty two years old and my kids were in college. So you and I have a long way to go. And it's been an amazing few years. And you don't have to change the world when you're a young mom. Like you may want to, nothing against people who choose that path. But I just think the pressure to like get to the top of your career and be the mom you want to be at once, it's so hard. It's just so hard. So just letting people know there's a big long career ahead of you when your kids are in school all day that is yours to be had. Yeah, a hundred percent agree. No, I couldn't agree more and I've always been very passionate about moms building a life that like works for them and I love the in the two thousands that you were quite literally able to do that. So that was almost like being a trailblazer, 'cause like you said, that wasn't a thing. Like nobody was working part-time from home, anything like that in two thousand. But I do feel like with leaders like yourself and founders and people who actually get it, I think that there is I I hate the word balance 'cause I don't think it really exists. I think you're just you're gonna be it's like a seesaw. You're gonna be here, you're gonna be there. You're gonna be like right now I'm in a hospital. We talked about this off the air, but it's like we are everywhere, especially as moms. So I do strongly believe in like creating a life that essentially works for you and I do think I do think that people like you are able to like kind of like make that way, if that makes sense. Because I do feel like sometimes like employers, unfortunately, they don't understand, right? And I get it. It's the corporate world. I understand that there are rules, there are ways, I get it. But I do feel like it's super important for that. And if you're a mom too, right, does that mean that like I'm a new mom, I go part time? Does that mean that I do this? You know you know what I mean? And that's okay. And like also you mentioned too, it can be temporary, certain temporary changes. Yeah. And the two biggest things that I think made it work for me were being very compartmentalizing my life and being very, very present when ⁓ wherever I was. So if I was at work, I mean I had an amazing, amazing nanny. I was fortunate to be able to afford to do that. And I hired a nanny I trusted who I knew loved my boys. And when I was at work, I was at work. Like period end of s like I w I wasn't like running out of meetings to go take calls for my boys. My nanny was gonna deal with that. Like I trusted her. And then same thing when I was at home. I was not on calls. I wasn't, you know, like Bo you know, in the back of the car, boys, shh, I have to take a client call. Like when I was with my kids, I was with my kids. So compartmentalizing to me was one Absolutely, one hundred percent agree. And one thing that I wanna dive into specifically with you is women, money, and power, if you don't mind. I definitely I know like this is your Super Bowl right here. This is your forte and I love it. So obviously you've been in the room for women raising money and negotiating deals, right? So Where do you most often see a founder give away her like her power before she realizes that she's actually doing that? Well, I think founders in general give out equity too easily to people. They give out ownership interest in their business to investors. They think like 'cause that's my world is representing people raising money. So I think it it's so hard to raise money that people will be like, ⁓ my God, someone's willing to write me a check for a hundred grand. What can I do for them? You know, and it'll be okay. And it won't necessarily be okay. So You hear a lot of stories of these, well, it's gonna be okay, but you hear stories of these exits where, you know, so and so had a fifty million dollar exit. Well, they gave away so much ownership in their business to investors along the way that they ended up with so little of that fifty million dollars. You think they're wealthy now? Not necessarily. So just because someone is willing to write you a check, I mean, sometimes that's the only way your business is gonna survive. So I'm not saying like say no automatically, but really being careful. And advocating for yourself in this way as in every other way of life, you know, making sure that the terms are beneficial and there are calculators out there where like so there's a cap table management company called Carta that a lot of people, a lot of startups deal with. And they have a tool where you can input like different scenarios of if I give away this much equity or if I do like convertible notes or what's called a safe and Like what will that look like if I have an exit of this much money or you know that and you can really get a good picture. So I think that's really important. Yeah, no, absolutely. And what do you wish that maybe more moms or women right in in business knew about the difference w between somebody just believing in them and then somebody offering them a deal, right, that might actually be good for their business? I've seen people be pretty savvy about that. I mean I think the most important thing is to have advisors, right? So Lawyer for sure, obviously, but financial people, other co-founders. I think my most successful female founder clients have this network of other female founders. And they run things including successful ones, like ones who have had a good exit. And they run things by each other. And I would so much rather have s a client come to me and say, I checked with a rock star like Amanda Lannard. And who's the pr CEO of Jelly Vision and she disagreed with your advice on XYZ and is thinking this, then someone's saying, I went to Chat GPT or Claude, and they're saying you're wrong. They don't know. Amanda knows. Like it's so I think having that inner circle of other women who understand who have been where you are, who will advocate for you, who will help you really and so and understanding the numbers. I think that's a huge one that so many women are like. I know my business, I know my product, my service, whatever it is. So you Leslie tak you'll take care of me on the numbers. I don't know your numbers. So you you need a good financial advisor or bookkeeper. You need someone on your side who's a f who's financially very literate too and can look at the numbers. I agree. I just got my very first one for mommy collective because I didn't know what I was doing. I was like, you couldn't even ask me. I wouldn't and this is so embarrassing, but I admit it. I'm like, I didn't know what I was doing. When it came to anything, so I'm like, we gotta get a little team behind us. If I everybody from marketing to like I said to bookkeeping to quite literally just anything. And now I feel like I can see my numbers, I can see the gr I s physically can see it with my eyes. And that's like for someone like me it's like a big deal because I come from like a whole different world and from radio. So now this is like different, you know? Well and ⁓ so that's another really good point that I should bring up. W female founders often will come to me. Like I actually had one woman who was She heads up is a headlines a HBO reality show. She's incredible. And she came to my office and she was shaking. I'm why are you shaking? And she's like, I don't know anything about this legal stuff. She's a creative. She's like, I don't know anything about this legal stuff. I'm so uncomfortable. I'm so intimidated. You're gonna think I'm so dumb, everything I say. And my thing is like, do you think I have any creative bone in my body that I could do what you do? We each have our specialties. Don't go into a meeting with someone feeling like they're better than you. They have their skill set and you have yours. And that's one of my huge things about representing female founders in my business is like don't be intimidated by me. Ask, you know, I hate what this is a really dumb question, Leslie. Don't think I'm stupid. Like, I don't think you're stupid. Ask every question. I don't know anything about the business you're building. So I don't think you're stupid. I think you're smart for asking questions, honestly. I love that you said that. Yeah, I'm the queen of can I ask a question? This is a dumb question. And I have to just I think from my own confidence and my own like mental sanity, I think I have to stop asking that. If I wanna be and you can tell me if I'm wrong, but if I even want my business to grow or even be taken serious, I think I have to there's certain things I gotta drop. And I think that's what a lot of us have to do. It's not a dumb question. I completely agree. ⁓ that's so real. So I do have a question for you that actually got submitted when I said that I was talking to you. So a lot of our moms I know it's kinda cute, but I love it. Not all of our moms are business owners, but a lot of them are. And I was curious because they wanted to know and I I really like this question a lot too, right? For a mom listening who has a real business but isn't trying to necessarily raise venture capital, what should she understand about ownership, contracts and then of course protecting what she's building? Love it. I love it. It's a great question. The capital raising, by the way, is a very difficult process. It's very time consuming and it's ugly. And it's you get a gazillion no's. It's known to be like the sexy, like, ⁓ we're raising our series A. But it's not it's not. So the truth is if you are building a business to be what sustains your family or helps pay the bills or something that changes the world in some way or i is something you can pass on to your children, that's awesome. And from a legal perspective, what you want to think about, there's so many things and I'd be happy to talk to any of your any listeners. I do a half hour free consultation and I'm so happy to talk about this. Or to set up a webinar kind of thing that's sort of the legal compliance things every small business owner should so we can talk about that. But really having everything in writing is so important. When a client that sells like goods says, Yeah, we've had this customer forever and ever and ever, and we just do what are POs, purchase orders. We don't have a we don't have a contract with them. It's a huge problem. And part of that is there's no termination provisions, right? So the if your business is very dependent on that contract and then With there's no nothing that penalty for terminating and the other side is like, Yeah, we're moving on to bigger companies or something, we're not gonna work with you anymore. You are screwed. Or what if a buyer comes along, you never meant to sell your company, but you build something great and out of the blue, this happens all the time, a third party contacts you and is like, I'm interested in buying your business. That is so cool. And what if you don't have contracts that in place that protect all your relationships with your employees, with your contractors, with your customers, with your vendors. They're not gonna buy your company or the value is going to be much, much lower. So everything being in writing, being very specific about Who gets to terminate? I mean it's terrible to say like think about termination when you're thinking, ⁓ I got this great contract, but who gets to terminate based on what and what are the repercussions if someone does are huge things. And you just it's so important not to just sign a contract, like read it, have it's so worth it to have a lawyer. Yes a lot of lawyers yeah, a lot of lawyers are so we in the big firms, just point blank, you get paid as a younger person. poor per la lawyer, you get paid based on how many hours you bill. So it's a really messed up incentive. And I was there and the senior partner whose client is hands me a contract and is like, look over this and look for anything scary or whatever. And I don't know the client. I don't know what they're concerned about. And I gotta bill hours to make money. So I'm not being very efficient. But if you go to a lawyer who will get to know you, get to know your business And then we'll s and then you give them never let a lawyer just point like go crazy doing the agre reviewing an agreement. Say to them, I only have the budget for one hour. Can you look at this for one hour and just point out any really scary risks? Here are the things that I'm up at night about. Here's what concerns me. So you don't have to I think people there's a misconception that I mean legal fees are out of control. I there's no question. But I think there's a misconception that once you get in, it could be this huge amount of money. You can control that. Yes. Yes, yes, hon and we you said this, we gotta do like some form of webinar with this 'cause we gotta get to all the mom business owners to get this information 'cause again, valuable info, but not only that, you have to be very mindful of the steps that you take. And I'm saying this is somebody who is going through this, Leslie. Like I have to make sure that I'm being so mindful 'cause as I'm growing and things are growing, I relate a lot to these moms who submitted questions for you. Can I actually ask you another one too that they asked? I think their questions are really great. I mean like Yeah, sometimes I do this, sometimes I don't, but I'm like, these are some good ass questions I have to ask. Okay, so my next one for you is when you left to build all rise, right? When you left Big Law, what were you like the most afraid of losing, right? And they were asking, was it maybe like your income? Was it like the actual work itself? Maybe connections, unless you took those with you, which I'm assuming you did 'cause you mentioned that you're like I still keep in touch with lot of people, which is very important. Credibility, was there anything? Identity. Yeah, I think I had been big school Big firm, talk about credibility. Names associated with everything I did that were well respected. And when I thought of a small firm, I thought of like two guys in their seventies with white hair drafting wills in like a office with like dead flies on the window. I swear to God, that's that was my picture. Like I thought like what and when people when like my parents I were with them and they would run into their friends and say, like Leslie has her own firm. I'm like, don't tell people that. It sounds like I couldn't like I couldn't make it. Couldn't make it in the big time. So I had to go off and do this puny little small firm by myself. And nothing is further from the truth. It means so much when it's yours and you can make it your own and you can do things like the model that I built with only hiring people who need flex time and make it meaningful. In fact, when so when I first left with a partner. So the financial piece, a lot of people ask like, was that a a big jump for you? And were you scared of that? I was again, I was very fortunate because my partner had the money to start the firm. So to capitalize it. Now he paid himself back before he paid either of us anything else. So it was but I was making you know I I knew that I was gonna make a living from the beginning. But then he got sick very suddenly when we were about nine years in. So things were going well, but he got sick and had to retire immediately. And so I'm all of a sudden I still had two kids who were at home and needed me. And as the years go by, it's I mean it's different stuff, but it's after school sports and all the things. So and I was still building my practice and practicing law and I had never run a business and I had no idea how to run a business. So I actually did like a incubator kind of program that was, you know, to my point before with having a group of women, it was seven women. Everyone had been super successful in a big corporate career and was leaving and pivoting to do something new on their own. And so we did a year long program that it's defunct unfortunately now, but it was if you can find anything like that and you're starting a business, the first like each month was a topic. So one was finance, one was Social media, marketing, PR, sales, like all that. And I learned all about building a business. And the best advice that I got, I'm gonna shout out to a woman named Megan Wessels, who runs this she's still a client, she runs this amazing throwback dating. You should interview her, she's great. So sh it's dating for people in their forties to sixties in person. And so anyway, she so she w ran this program at the time and we had to identify a North Star. So like what do you want to get out of this year long program? And I, you know, I don't know. I said, I want to build a sustainable, profitable law firm that does, you know, really, really excellent work but is kind to the clients and not intimidating and yada yada and cost effective. And she goes, No, no, no. Where's Leslie Cohen in that? Because if you don't build a business that reflects who you are down deep, it's not going to be successful, I'm telling you. So I thought about it and thought about it, and I said, I was so lucky that firm gave me the ability to work part-time and it was unheard of and I want to do this for other women. And that's where the whole thing came from. So back to that circle of female advisors that are really know what they're doing, that have found success. I love your story and I and again I love that you took a big part of your life that you found valuable, right? And then again created something, flipped it and reversed it, and now you're offering that like to your firm, right? To your employees essentially. And You did mention that you do mentor a lot of women. So if anyone's listening, whether they are in your industry, they're maybe they're in law, maybe they're not. Maybe they own a cookie baking shop. I I mean really anything. What kind of advice do you have for women for moms to network in twenty twenty six to build that circle that you mentioned or to create relationships and get mentors? Yeah, absolutely. So it's all about giving. It's all about walking into a room and anyone you meet thinking about how can you help them. You cannot walk into a room thinking about how you can get help from other people because it won't work. It won't work. People will feel like you're taking advantage of them. You know that like icky, salesy feeling that people get will be giving that vibe. And so it's really about how can I help you? And when I was a young mom starting my firm, I was like, How can I help anyone? I don't know what I don't know how to and what I realized was you can always find something. So this was a great story I tell all the time. My one of my first big clients. I was s so the other thing is I don't like huge rooms. I don't think that does anything for you, to be in a a big conference, like learning from the panels. But I don't it's very difficult to get business or form like close relationships like that. But I would go to like a networking meeting and I would think about who in the room do I want to get to know. So I was at this networking meeting. There was a guy who had an interesting business and I think he was in social media and this was in like 2011. So you know, very, very nascent industry. And it was just interesting to me. So we sat down for coffee and I knew this from learning and from someone like, How can I help you? And so we started talking about our kids, and he was talking about how his son, my son was a a teenager in a rock band, and he was like, ⁓ my son plays guitar. We can't get him to practice. And it's just so annoying, and we keep paying for lessons, but he won't practice. And I said, Well, you know, we had the same problem. And then I found someone introduced me to this guy, Spencer, Spike, who puts kids in bands. And he said to my son, like, if you don't practice, I can't put you in a band. Like, you have to get to the next level to be in a band. And that kid practiced like crazy because he was so excited. He didn't want to sit and like learn to play guitar. He wanted to like rock it out in a band, you know, in front of people and whatever. And so I gave the name to this guy. And I mean, a year later he gave me this huge piece of business because he was like, That was so great. My son's in a band now. He loved so there's always something. There's someone you can introduce. There's some piece of advice you can give. And if you go into every your network is everything I built my so you know that managing partner was like, You have to play golf and go to a country club. Well, I and I said I wasn't gonna do that. How did I build a firm that now is twelve lawyers and three paralegals from networking? All from networking and all from giving. I love this. I love your advice. You are me, I am you. I feel the same way. I think that's it's just like I love talking like clearly, right? With radio broadcasting, and I just think it's like so important to build your network and and start young too. Like one thing I regret, I didn't do ⁓ a lot of that in college. I did a little bit, but I do I'm like start high school, go, network. Well, and especially with young women today, like one of the things that was hard for me when I was first starting in it was such a man's world. And all the guys, and this is great advice for young women, because all the guys would be like they'd have a group of college friends and one was an accountant and one was the lawyer and one was the real estate guy and one was the and they would feed each other, they would use each other. They tell all their clients, like, ⁓ you need an accountant, you need to use so and so. And that's how my partner did it. He had this huge book of business because he had all these friends that were in complementary industries. And I mean, my friends mostly became stay at home moms and they're amazing moms and I one million percent respect for them, but they couldn't give me business. So I had to go out there and start networking to meet all new people. One hundred percent. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there. If I was going to a networking event, right, and I'm a little nervous, right? So picture this, right? Set the scene. I'm a little nervous. Maybe I'm a new mom. It's my first time being out in public without the baby, maybe. I'm thinking like, right? Like the most vulnerable situation I could be in. But I want to go to this event. I want to put myself back out there. I want to get my business back up on its feet. What's a good like conversation start? Or how do I get your Leslie's attention? How do I get your attention? Do I just go up to you and say, hey, love the shoes? Like, what do I say? Yeah, no, being real. Being just coming up and saying, I'm hi, I'm so-and-so, I saw your your name on the list of attention. attendees and I thought you'd like the a really good person for me to meet because I'm in whatever business. But I gotta be honest, I'm a nervous wreck right now. I just had a baby, it's my first event back and I'm just like just not maybe not nervous, like I'm just feeling very out of sorts or uncomfortable. Like I'm not a big networker and I would like my first reaction would be, come with me girlfriend. Like I got you. I'm gonna introduce you to four more people and take and look around the room every once in a while, make sure you're not standing there alone and you know I love that. I love that advice. And honestly too, like by me and I'm thinking what what you just said, by me even saying, ⁓ y I'm a new mom, this and that, maybe then that's a conversation starter. You're a mom too, right? Leslie's a mom. Maybe now we're bonding. Maybe now we're t you you just never know where the conversation can go. And I love the like the whole part of just keeping it real. Because if you come with a script and this and that and you start using some words, I don't even know what I'm saying, I don't think it's gonna be as effective. Personally, I don't. Agree. I love that. It's very, very nice. So before we wrap up, I do I am curious if there was one thing that you hope that a younger woman, whether it's like law or business, right, gets to take for granted that you had to essentially fight for or you felt like you kind of you walked so others could run. What would that be? Hmm. So there was a when I was at the firm in Chicago, there was a an incident of blatant sexual harassment. Like and the Person was there was a very young woman and she was the recipient and she fell apart. And the way that I handled it went and that's typically what happens. I mean, it was a much older man in a position of authority. She needed her job. She was very career oriented. Like I get it. There was no it happened to me when I was first started at my Wall Street firm. And I just I was like, are you kidding me right now? And I went to the head of the firm after this incident and And I was so angry. Instead of being like sad and feeling like I did something wrong and I'm in a position of vulnerability, I wanted him to feel vulnerable. So I went to the head of the firm and I said, This just happened, and I'm gonna tell you something. You are so lucky that it is me and not someone else that he did this to, because I'm not gonna sue the crap out of you, but so help me God, if he does this to any other I mean, obviously me, but any other woman ever again. And I hear about it, this firm's going down. Like, you better get a hold of him right now. And I just think it's this it's a confidence thing. I think men ⁓ and that was something I was gonna say earlier too. Men, they fake it till they make it. Like they act I every man I've ever worked for, I've been on calls and they tell a client, like, the client's got a question, they're like, Well, you know, da da da and then they hang up, I'm like, that was wrong. And they're like Yeah, but I need to answer, so just go back and sort of finesse it and like email him and explain like it wasn't this, but it is that you know, I'm like, What? Like that so I think going back to your question, I go off on tangents. But I love it. I love it. I think that I'd want women to know I mean, I think we've stood up to blatant sexual harassment for pr I think it's pretty much like hopefully close to eradicated. But if it does happen feeling like you have the power in that relationship 'cause you do. You can bring down the organization. So handling it in a way that you stick up for yourself, not like crying and feeling vulnerable and bad for yourself and realizing that you have that power. I love that. Absolutely. And I want to end on that note, you have that power. I love it. Leslie, where can somebody work with you if they want to contact you? I know you said you do consultations. Where can we do that? We're also going to link it too in the show notes and where can we follow on social? Awesome. Yes. So the easiest way is just emailing me. So it's L Cohen at allrise lawyers with an ask dot com. You can go to our website and fill out the form, allrise lawyers dot com, and then I'm on LinkedIn. I tried Instagram. For a little while and I felt like i it was mixing personal and professional too much. So LinkedIn is my professional. I love it. I'm so I'm very, very late to LinkedIn, like years late, but I just got on and I kinda love it there. It's kind of fun. It's it it is. It is. It's a very different vibe. Yes, I agree. Awesome. Leslie Cohen, thank you for being here today. We appreciate you. Thank you so much for having me.