Latest / Stuff You Should Know / The Great Wall of China Episode

Transcript

The Great Wall of China Episode · Stuff You Should Know

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to you stuff you should know from house stuff
0:04
Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
0:12
Speaker 1: Josh Clark. There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, just the two
0:15
Speaker 1: of us again. Fine, so the Lone Wolves, the pack
0:18
Speaker 1: of the Lone Wolves. I'm just trying new stuff here. Yeah. Wolverines,
0:29
Speaker 1: Yeah in Colorado blows my mind. Yeah. Where do you
0:32
Speaker 1: think it was? Again? Michigan? Right, and all the mountain Rangers.
0:37
Speaker 1: I just thought I hadn't been far enough north in
0:39
Speaker 1: Michigan before, despite growing up an hour south of it.
0:44
Speaker 1: I saw a little bit of the old Red Dawn
0:46
Speaker 1: again the other night. How did you stop it ended? Okay,
0:51
Speaker 1: that's all the end I saw from like Powers booth
0:54
Speaker 1: on Okay. When he entered the picture, yeah, which I mean, like,
0:58
Speaker 1: if you think about it, he did need to be there.
1:00
Speaker 1: But his introduction was great. It was wonderful. I think
1:04
Speaker 1: he played a vital role. I think they could have
1:08
Speaker 1: done fine without him. He's a little creepy with the
1:10
Speaker 1: young ladies, though with Leah Thompson he was sick. He
1:15
Speaker 1: got what he deserved. I still haven't seen the remake,
1:20
Speaker 1: No need, Nope, So Chuck, Yes, I have another question
1:24
Speaker 1: about something you've seen. Have you ever seen the Great
1:28
Speaker 1: Wall of China? Not in person? Let me ask you
1:32
Speaker 1: something else. Have you ever seen the ten thousand lie
1:35
Speaker 1: long Wall. I don't know what you speak. That's the
1:38
Speaker 1: Great Wall of China, I'm just kidding. Also called the
1:43
Speaker 1: long Wall of ten thousand Lee. It's another way to
1:45
Speaker 1: put it l I. And that is a unit of
1:47
Speaker 1: measurement in China. Apparently it's about one click. Yeah, no too,
1:53
Speaker 1: two clicks, two clicks. This doesn't here. One kilometer now,
1:58
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I'm sorry to Lee, being is equivalent to
2:01
Speaker 1: one kilometer. I'm sorry you did one click? To Lee, man,
2:07
Speaker 1: this thing. The wheels are falling off already, right. The
2:13
Speaker 1: Western hemisphere is generally the folks who say the Great
2:17
Speaker 1: Wall of China, right, And so if it's the ten
2:20
Speaker 1: thousand Lee long Wall, and to Lee is one click,
2:23
Speaker 1: then that means that it's the five thousand kilometer long Wall,
2:28
Speaker 1: is what they would call it in China. And that's
2:30
Speaker 1: actually way off. There was a very long time that
2:35
Speaker 1: people thought that the Great Wall was maybe between kilometers
2:42
Speaker 1: to sixty kilometers. I believe was the high end somewhere
2:45
Speaker 1: in there. And um all over them app really Yeah.
2:48
Speaker 1: And finally, at one point in two thousand seven, China said,
2:51
Speaker 1: you know what, we're gonna take this seriously, after nearly
2:54
Speaker 1: two thousand years, We're going to go measure this bag.
2:59
Speaker 1: Who's got some rope? Yeah. Luckily by then GPS had
3:03
Speaker 1: been developed and they used that a lot. But they
3:06
Speaker 1: did they did a modern survey of the Great Wall,
3:09
Speaker 1: and they found that it was not a five thousand,
3:12
Speaker 1: five thousand kilometer long wall. No, they found Chuck, how
3:16
Speaker 1: long was it? Over thirteen thousand miles? Over twenty one clicks?
3:22
Speaker 1: It's a lot of clicks. That is a very long wall,
3:26
Speaker 1: and it depends on who you ask, Like, that is
3:29
Speaker 1: the ultimate length of the entire wall if you take
3:33
Speaker 1: into account every bit of construction phase that was ever
3:36
Speaker 1: done to it. Yeah, which we'll get into, but that
3:39
Speaker 1: generally means pre Ming dynasty and post Ming dynasty. Preming
3:43
Speaker 1: was about seventy seven hundred roughly miles. Uh, and in
3:49
Speaker 1: really bad shape. Apparently the pr Preming sections only are
3:52
Speaker 1: about eight percent hole. Yeah. Well, I mean some of
3:56
Speaker 1: them were built back in two hundred b C. Long time. Yeah,
4:01
Speaker 1: they weren't like what you think of as the wall
4:03
Speaker 1: as we'll see. Uh. And I found I found this
4:05
Speaker 1: interesting in the ming section or post ming section. Uh.
4:09
Speaker 1: Five thousand out of the five thousand, four nine miles
4:14
Speaker 1: um two hundred and twenty three miles or trenches, so
4:16
Speaker 1: not a wall at all. That's like a reverse wall.
4:20
Speaker 1: And about fourteen hundred little less were natural barreas right,
4:26
Speaker 1: like they just took advantage of ridges or rivers or
4:29
Speaker 1: you know, really things. Yeah, I didn't know about the
4:32
Speaker 1: river thing, so uh, pretty interesting. And it's widest it
4:35
Speaker 1: is thirty ft. At is highest it is twenty six ft,
4:39
Speaker 1: and it goes through some rough terrain. And we should
4:43
Speaker 1: mention stick around through this one. Because the wonderful Christen
4:48
Speaker 1: Conger from stuff Mom Never told you has walked at
4:51
Speaker 1: the Great Wall, not the whole thing, very small portion
4:56
Speaker 1: kilometers of it. No, but she's we're gonna bring her
4:59
Speaker 1: at the and uh and she said, I'm no expert,
5:02
Speaker 1: she said, but I can say what it's like to
5:03
Speaker 1: be there. And I said, that's all we need. So
5:06
Speaker 1: we're gonna bring in Congor here right at the end.
5:09
Speaker 1: So it was kind of surprising to everybody that, um,
5:11
Speaker 1: the Great Wall is thirteen thousand miles long. It's way
5:15
Speaker 1: longer than anybody ever thought. They're like, whoa, right, Um,
5:19
Speaker 1: but that's not It's not like one unbroken wall even
5:23
Speaker 1: when it was all solid. Even if it were all solid,
5:26
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be one on broken wall. As a matter
5:28
Speaker 1: of fact, the territory that it spans is about two
5:31
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty thousand kilometers put the emphasis on the
5:35
Speaker 1: wrong two hundred and twenty kilometers long, right, And the
5:39
Speaker 1: wall is a bunch of series of overlapping walls and
5:43
Speaker 1: embattlements and apparently rivers. And the reason that no one
5:47
Speaker 1: knew how long the wall actually was is because for
5:51
Speaker 1: hundreds of years, China kind of didn't like its wall.
5:55
Speaker 1: It looked at it as a kind of a relic
5:58
Speaker 1: of a backwards feudal era, and that it it had
6:03
Speaker 1: a lot to be ashamed of. Yeah, there's in fact,
6:05
Speaker 1: this one article I sent from the Smithsonian to you,
6:08
Speaker 1: uh said that one of the great endangered What makes
6:12
Speaker 1: it endanger today, which it is, um, is what they
6:15
Speaker 1: call a paucity of scholarship. There is not one single
6:18
Speaker 1: Chinese academic on the planet, or any anyone on the
6:24
Speaker 1: planet who specializes in the Great Wall of China and
6:26
Speaker 1: the whole planet hard to believe, it really is. In
6:29
Speaker 1: the author of this article, brick Larmer Lamour, one of
6:33
Speaker 1: those two um brock Landers, points out that, Um, that's
6:38
Speaker 1: really surprising, Um, because this is a very old wall.
6:42
Speaker 1: It's one of the seven New Seven Wonders, right. Um.
6:45
Speaker 1: You can see it from outer space clear as day now,
6:48
Speaker 1: from the from the moon, you can see the thing. Um,
6:52
Speaker 1: and it just it deserves scholarship. But it really it
6:54
Speaker 1: wasn't until the early two thousands that China actually it
6:59
Speaker 1: was for that. I think it was the eighties when
7:02
Speaker 1: Zeen Japing, the the chairman who came after Mao Um
7:07
Speaker 1: said we need to preserve this well. And I think
7:10
Speaker 1: some regions had here and there over the years. It
7:14
Speaker 1: wasn't like the whole country. A lot of folks there
7:17
Speaker 1: like people, and in fact, I think the same article
7:20
Speaker 1: points out that just regular citizens in there, like small village,
7:25
Speaker 1: some had reverence for the wall and would try and
7:27
Speaker 1: you know, patrol it, patrol it or or repair it. Yeah,
7:31
Speaker 1: it's led to some not so great repairs, you know.
7:33
Speaker 1: The one that who againanders points out she says that
7:40
Speaker 1: there's one, uh, there's one section of the Wall in
7:43
Speaker 1: a province called Gion or a city called Gion, where
7:46
Speaker 1: they repaired it with bathroom tiles. None the most authentic
7:50
Speaker 1: building material you can use to restore the Great Wall,
7:54
Speaker 1: but it does display a complete in a lot of cases,
7:58
Speaker 1: change in attitude to the Great Wall. It was something
8:01
Speaker 1: to be neglected and um mocked. Now it's something to
8:05
Speaker 1: be preserved. And they've just recently passed laws saying like
8:10
Speaker 1: you can't throw raves on the Great Wall of China anymore.
8:13
Speaker 1: You can't drive on the Great Wall of China, which
8:16
Speaker 1: is apparently a thing. Yeah uh and what we'll get
8:19
Speaker 1: to that too later. But you mentioned something that is
8:21
Speaker 1: not true, and we need to really point out that
8:24
Speaker 1: you cannot see it from space. The old uh Wives
8:29
Speaker 1: tales that has really stood the test of time. You
8:32
Speaker 1: know who made that up? Robert Ripley. Oh really, yep,
8:38
Speaker 1: what a jerk in like some thirties comic strip. He's
8:41
Speaker 1: like he just completely fabricated. The Great Wall of China
8:44
Speaker 1: is the only man made structure you can see from space.
8:47
Speaker 1: It sounds like such a great little fact. Though it's great,
8:49
Speaker 1: it's like a total Ripley, believe it or not a
8:51
Speaker 1: thing right, and um, it wasn't until we got to
8:54
Speaker 1: space in the fifties, Um, that people were able to
8:59
Speaker 1: say like, no, you can't. You can see it from
9:01
Speaker 1: lower Earth orbit, but that's not outer space, which is
9:05
Speaker 1: what Robert Ripley I think he actually said, you can
9:07
Speaker 1: see it from the moon. Yeah, so that's when we
9:10
Speaker 1: found out for sure that you can't. Um. I think
9:13
Speaker 1: they had the guys on the moon say can you
9:16
Speaker 1: can you see the Great Wall? And they're like, no,
9:17
Speaker 1: not at all. Yeah, they like said, you'd be able
9:20
Speaker 1: to see every highway if you could see the Great Wall. Right.
9:23
Speaker 1: So from lower Earth orbit you can see the Great
9:25
Speaker 1: Wall depending on the conditions because again a lot of
9:28
Speaker 1: it's made of like earthen clay and stuff from around it.
9:31
Speaker 1: We talked about this before, but like when it snows
9:35
Speaker 1: or something, you can kind of see some of it.
9:37
Speaker 1: But you can also see the pyramids too, so big whoop. Yeah.
9:40
Speaker 1: And you know what I was just thinking. I was
9:41
Speaker 1: given Robert Ripley a hard time, but he he didn't
9:44
Speaker 1: say believe it. He said believe it or don't you know?
9:49
Speaker 1: Up to you good point chuck uh. And then lastly,
9:53
Speaker 1: this sounds like an urban legend to me because I
9:55
Speaker 1: don't know any Chinese people, um, anyone in China who
10:00
Speaker 1: can verify or deny this, please let us know. But
10:03
Speaker 1: from what I understand, the Chinese did not believe that
10:06
Speaker 1: you couldn't see the Great Wall from space until their
10:11
Speaker 1: own astronaut, the first Chinese astronaut I don't, went into
10:14
Speaker 1: orbit and I think two thousand three and said no
10:17
Speaker 1: you can't. And and that was a collective billions strong
10:21
Speaker 1: uh yeah. Um, So the Great Wall, like you said,
10:25
Speaker 1: was built in pieces over a couple of thousand years um,
10:30
Speaker 1: starting with they believe the Western Han dynasty UM all
10:35
Speaker 1: the way back in two oh six BC to a
10:38
Speaker 1: D four Uh. They were followed by the Northern uh
10:41
Speaker 1: We dynasty, the Northern Key Dynasty, the Sweet Sweet Sweet Dynasty,
10:51
Speaker 1: Uh Sweat Dynasty, the Lao Dynasty, the Jin dynasty, and
10:57
Speaker 1: finally that was all pre Ming and and it was
11:00
Speaker 1: just a series of um not so great walls before
11:06
Speaker 1: the Ming dynasty to keep out uh invaders and and
11:10
Speaker 1: largely invaders from the north. Yeah. And remember in our
11:15
Speaker 1: Terracotta Army episode, we talked a lot about um Chi
11:21
Speaker 1: I think it was his name, um and he's the
11:24
Speaker 1: guy who unified these six separate states into China, the
11:27
Speaker 1: China we or most of the China we we know today. Um.
11:31
Speaker 1: And even before him, there were these walls in these
11:34
Speaker 1: six states to keep one another out. So there was
11:38
Speaker 1: like this early like these proto walls. But Chi Showa,
11:43
Speaker 1: I'm saying that like eight different ways. Um, Emperor Chi,
11:48
Speaker 1: we'll call him. Uh, he was the first one to say, like,
11:50
Speaker 1: we should connect some of these walls and make a
11:53
Speaker 1: great wall. And I think that was the initial beginning
11:55
Speaker 1: and the whole reason was he wanted to keep the
11:57
Speaker 1: huns out. Yeah. The huns were not ice. Um. They
12:01
Speaker 1: were fierce and feared and really great at two things. Um.
12:08
Speaker 1: One is riding horses and two is shooting arrows. Yeah,
12:12
Speaker 1: and doing them at the same time. Yeah. Because they
12:14
Speaker 1: were not agricultural, so they did a lot of hunting
12:17
Speaker 1: and that's why they were so good at at archery.
12:21
Speaker 1: And they were to be feared and did a great
12:23
Speaker 1: job at breaking havoc throughout Asia. Um. So the wall
12:28
Speaker 1: was definitely necessary, uh, and it worked pretty well for
12:32
Speaker 1: a while. I mean, like the Emperor Chi and his
12:36
Speaker 1: dynasty were not like milk toasts themselves. The huns were
12:41
Speaker 1: enough of a threat that they're like, we just need
12:42
Speaker 1: to build a huge wall to keep out. I don't
12:45
Speaker 1: want them hanging out anymore. Yeah. It was built by
12:49
Speaker 1: basically three groups. Um, soldiers were about the second largest contributor,
12:55
Speaker 1: Commoners was was the leading contributor, and then criminals. Back
13:00
Speaker 1: in the day, when you would get in trouble, you
13:02
Speaker 1: would be sentenced to four years on the wall. You
13:05
Speaker 1: would guard it during the day, and you would build
13:07
Speaker 1: it at night. Wow, when did you sleep in the afternoon.
13:11
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like it's a good point in the evening.
13:13
Speaker 1: That's why they call it hard labor, my friend. Yeah,
13:15
Speaker 1: that is hard labor. And apparently thousands, thousands and thousands.
13:19
Speaker 1: I didn't see any hard numbers, did you. I saw
13:22
Speaker 1: up to a million, but that just sounds one of
13:24
Speaker 1: those died. Yeah. Wow, well, I guess you think about
13:27
Speaker 1: it's over two thousand years Yeah, possible, it's uh And
13:32
Speaker 1: a lot of the bodies and bones are still in
13:35
Speaker 1: that wall. At one point that was referred to as
13:38
Speaker 1: the longest cemetery in the world. Wow, that's neat. Yeah,
13:41
Speaker 1: not really haunting. Yeah that's what I mean. You know
13:45
Speaker 1: me so, um not every single dynasty came along and said, oh, well,
13:50
Speaker 1: let's do our bit to add to the Great Wall
13:52
Speaker 1: of China, because in two thousand seven it will become
13:54
Speaker 1: one of the seven Wonders of the modern world. We
13:56
Speaker 1: want to be a part of that. Some dynasty's um
14:00
Speaker 1: had it seemed it seemed to all rest in the motivation,
14:03
Speaker 1: like how much of a threat was coming from the north,
14:06
Speaker 1: because the thing runs from east to west, from the
14:08
Speaker 1: Gobi Desert to the Yellow Sea, I believe right, and um,
14:13
Speaker 1: so how much of a problem you had from the
14:15
Speaker 1: barbarians to the north, to how much um fighting from uh,
14:20
Speaker 1: like within the different cities, because remember it's not just
14:22
Speaker 1: one unbroken east to west wall. There's like different areas
14:26
Speaker 1: that are blocked off by the wall. So some dynasties
14:28
Speaker 1: had more problems than others. And it seemed like if
14:31
Speaker 1: you were really having a lot of trouble with outsiders,
14:36
Speaker 1: you would spend a lot of your resources to building
14:39
Speaker 1: the wall or enlarging it, or going back and rebuilding
14:43
Speaker 1: some earlier stuff. And a lot of them did. But
14:46
Speaker 1: it's like you said, about a little over half of
14:50
Speaker 1: the wall was completed by all these other dynasties, and
14:53
Speaker 1: then the rest was from the Ming dynasty. They just
14:56
Speaker 1: went crazy on that thing. Uh yeah, and you know what,
14:59
Speaker 1: let's stick a break here and we'll really get into
15:01
Speaker 1: the Ming dynasty right after this. We'll go crazy on
15:03
Speaker 1: that all right. Here we are in thirteen sixty eight.
15:19
Speaker 1: The Ming Dynasty is in action and they are killing
15:23
Speaker 1: it on the Great Wall. Um. They are not just
15:25
Speaker 1: building a wall. Sometimes they're building two walls in three
15:28
Speaker 1: walls to confuse people trying to enter. I don't know
15:32
Speaker 1: if it's confusing frustrating, but well you would well, yeah,
15:36
Speaker 1: good point. I would just think, yeah, you climb over
15:38
Speaker 1: the wall, and you're like, ah, there's another wall, right,
15:41
Speaker 1: But I wouldn't think like, whoa did I just climb
15:44
Speaker 1: into the wall that I just climbed? Like how which
15:47
Speaker 1: side of my right? Yeah, yeah, you're right. It's a
15:50
Speaker 1: good points turn around and solve that conundrum. Well, maybe
15:53
Speaker 1: in uh, in fourteenth century China, it was a little
15:56
Speaker 1: more confusing. Maybe maybe UH they built it higher and
16:00
Speaker 1: wider than ever before, and UM did a bunch of
16:05
Speaker 1: other things to the wall, specifically, UH guard towers and
16:11
Speaker 1: places to UM put military supplies, bunkers, things like that lights, yes,
16:16
Speaker 1: which is a big one they apparently, and I think
16:19
Speaker 1: we're going back to brock Lander's brooke armor. Um. She
16:23
Speaker 1: says that at one point, thanks to using either smoke
16:27
Speaker 1: or fire, smoke during the day, um and fire at night,
16:31
Speaker 1: they could travel. They could send messages all up and
16:34
Speaker 1: down the wall. It's something like twenty six Yeah, that's
16:39
Speaker 1: like broadband Internet of the day. Um. And it was
16:43
Speaker 1: all because the Mean came in and started they put
16:45
Speaker 1: up guard posts and apparently the Ming also were very
16:49
Speaker 1: progressive and had a big problem with desertion. But they said, well,
16:53
Speaker 1: you know what, how about this, If you have to
16:55
Speaker 1: man this guard post for years at a time, bring
16:58
Speaker 1: your family and as a matter of if you do
17:00
Speaker 1: a really good job, we'll name this guard post after
17:02
Speaker 1: your family. And there's still plenty of guard posts today.
17:05
Speaker 1: Said bear the family names of the people who live
17:07
Speaker 1: in the region and didn't sell out their own people. Yeah,
17:10
Speaker 1: well that was a big thing, because if you put
17:12
Speaker 1: people on a wall, you definitely open yourself up for
17:16
Speaker 1: people to let people you don't want in through the
17:19
Speaker 1: wall if they give them money, exactly. And that's what
17:22
Speaker 1: happened to um. The wall worked pretty great until the
17:26
Speaker 1: seventeenth century, and finally the man Chu invaded successfully into China,
17:33
Speaker 1: brought down the Ming dynasty, and they said, yeah, this
17:37
Speaker 1: wall kind of snakes. We got through it just fine,
17:39
Speaker 1: so why put forth a lot more effort into this thing.
17:42
Speaker 1: And from that point forward, construction on it pretty much stopped. Yeah,
17:46
Speaker 1: And starting in sixteen they made it through the wall
17:50
Speaker 1: and that was that. That was that so um for
17:55
Speaker 1: the next few hundred years, I believe the man Chu
17:59
Speaker 1: they set up the key the Ching Ching dynasty right um.
18:04
Speaker 1: And so for this time I think it went up
18:06
Speaker 1: to like nineteen thirteen or something like that. There there
18:09
Speaker 1: was this that that definitely is where the roots of
18:12
Speaker 1: scorn towards the wall was set up. The people, the
18:15
Speaker 1: ruling class had made it through this wall. It had
18:17
Speaker 1: been set up to keep them out. It hadn't. So
18:21
Speaker 1: this wall is stupid is basically the prevailing sentiment in China.
18:25
Speaker 1: And then when Chairman Mao came into power, um, he
18:29
Speaker 1: was all about the cultural revolution. Now looking backward, going
18:33
Speaker 1: forward right, yes, and so what better way to get
18:36
Speaker 1: rid of the past and the backwards history of China
18:41
Speaker 1: um but then literally disassemble the wall this huge symbol
18:44
Speaker 1: of old China, so he called. He was the founding
18:48
Speaker 1: father of the People's Republic of China, and he basically
18:51
Speaker 1: said all the way up until like the nineteen fifties,
18:54
Speaker 1: do you want to build a house. I know where
18:56
Speaker 1: you can get some brick. Yeah, it's just outside your
18:59
Speaker 1: front door, and uh, go go take what you need.
19:03
Speaker 1: And that was responsible for a large part of the
19:05
Speaker 1: early uh non natural erosion of the wall, people just
19:11
Speaker 1: taking it apart pretty much. Um, there's also zero protection
19:16
Speaker 1: of the wall. Not only was it being disassembled, but
19:19
Speaker 1: nobody was really trying to safeguard it at all. So
19:24
Speaker 1: cattle would be moved across it. Um, they'd be allowed
19:28
Speaker 1: to graze right up on it. Um. There would be
19:32
Speaker 1: natural stuff too, like the freeze thaw cycle. It's really
19:37
Speaker 1: hard on mortar joints, right yeah, And just exposure to
19:39
Speaker 1: the elements period over that long it's gonna damage it.
19:42
Speaker 1: And then also like if people are cutting down trees
19:45
Speaker 1: for firewood, that of stuff that's holding the soil in
19:48
Speaker 1: place along the wall. When that tree goes, the soil
19:51
Speaker 1: loosens too. When the soil loosens beneath it, the wall
19:53
Speaker 1: topples itself. So when you factor in the human element
19:58
Speaker 1: and the lack of well, well, I guess government encouragement
20:02
Speaker 1: of disassembling the wall, and then the natural elements too.
20:06
Speaker 1: You've got a wall it's in serious, serious disrepair, especially
20:10
Speaker 1: considering some of this stuff is like almost two thousand
20:12
Speaker 1: years old by now. Yeah. This one article I think
20:16
Speaker 1: it was from the Smithsonian again, talked about the desertification,
20:20
Speaker 1: which we had a great podcast on desertification. Um. And
20:24
Speaker 1: and apparently inn ninja x i A. I'm so bad
20:29
Speaker 1: with the Chinese words. Well, hold on, let me try
20:32
Speaker 1: to figure this out. I'm gonna go with nin Jia
20:34
Speaker 1: for now. Stop me if you x i A. Right. Um,
20:39
Speaker 1: but desertification is a big problem there because and this
20:41
Speaker 1: is super interesting when they constructed the wall and this
20:44
Speaker 1: part of the country policy was burned down all the
20:49
Speaker 1: trees and all the grass within sixty miles on the
20:52
Speaker 1: other side of the wall, the bad side. Uh, and
20:55
Speaker 1: then on our inside, we're let's clear the land to farm.
20:58
Speaker 1: All great ideas, right, yeah, but what happens is, um,
21:02
Speaker 1: it's an environmental disaster. Is what is what modern Uh?
21:08
Speaker 1: What geologists, geographers, geographers, sandographers, sand people, Uh? It's what
21:15
Speaker 1: the Tuscan raiders they say, it's an environmental disaster. So basically,
21:19
Speaker 1: the northern desert in China is expanding at one million
21:23
Speaker 1: acres a year at this point, and the Great Wall
21:27
Speaker 1: is right in the middle of that path. And what
21:28
Speaker 1: happens is sand dunes will just completely covered up in places.
21:33
Speaker 1: Or remember we talked about flash flooding being a big
21:35
Speaker 1: problem in desertification, and that's gonna crumble the base and
21:40
Speaker 1: it just eroads it. Yeah, so it's that whole area
21:43
Speaker 1: because of desertification, is losing its wall. I remember that
21:46
Speaker 1: from our desertification episode, that the Gobi Desert is just
21:49
Speaker 1: growing immensely every year, is it? Nina, did you get
21:53
Speaker 1: an answer on that? It is? You did it? Ya?
21:57
Speaker 1: It is? That's it, Nina, that's you man. You have
22:01
Speaker 1: a side career in Chinese pronunciation. I don't know about that. Um.
22:07
Speaker 1: All right, let's take another break. We'll talk about tourism
22:12
Speaker 1: and then some of the new efforts to preserve the wall. Yeah, so, Chok,
22:29
Speaker 1: we were talking about how like the human element is
22:32
Speaker 1: huge on deteriorating the Great Wall of China. UM. And
22:36
Speaker 1: not only is it people using bricks for their homes
22:40
Speaker 1: which you can carry. You can hardly blame a subsistence
22:42
Speaker 1: farmer for that kind of thing, especially apparently in the
22:46
Speaker 1: more remote areas there they have no, um, no fondness
22:52
Speaker 1: for the wall. They don't care about it, they don't
22:54
Speaker 1: know that much about it. And a lot of times,
22:57
Speaker 1: and especially in the remote areas, these are where like
22:59
Speaker 1: the wall is most dilapidated. So it's like, yeah, why
23:02
Speaker 1: wouldn't I grab this brick and make a house that
23:05
Speaker 1: I need? Um? Or should I should I contribute to
23:08
Speaker 1: the preservation of the wall? You tell me, guy from Beijing,
23:12
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Um. So those areas in
23:15
Speaker 1: the or the parts of the wall in the more
23:17
Speaker 1: rural areas are under the most threat, for sure, but
23:20
Speaker 1: that the stuff in the very highly trafficed areas thanks
23:24
Speaker 1: to tourists are equally under threat because people still just
23:28
Speaker 1: take bricks. But a lot of times it's foreign tourists
23:31
Speaker 1: taking bricks for souvenirs, that's right. Either that or they're
23:35
Speaker 1: um carving things into the wall. And every time you
23:37
Speaker 1: carve something into the wall, you're chipping away at it.
23:39
Speaker 1: Of course, Uh, there are souvenir shops and cable cars
23:43
Speaker 1: and sky cars, businesses and restaurants and billboards and all
23:48
Speaker 1: kinds of things that scattered along the most populated parts
23:52
Speaker 1: of the wall. Yeah, like right up on it. Yeah,
23:54
Speaker 1: you never see those in pictures, people driving their cars
23:58
Speaker 1: on the Great Wall of China having raves like you
24:01
Speaker 1: talked about earlier. Yeah, it sounds like and apparently like
24:04
Speaker 1: the raves were outlawed. But I saw online that they
24:07
Speaker 1: still had one in two thousand fifteen, and it looked lame.
24:11
Speaker 1: I really, I think they had two thousand people, which
24:14
Speaker 1: is not enough, apparently because they like there was a
24:17
Speaker 1: shot in this the trailer for this rave of people
24:21
Speaker 1: just sitting there with their hands on their or their
24:23
Speaker 1: chins on their hands, like looking bored. You mean it
24:25
Speaker 1: wasn't one of those super awesome raves, right, it was
24:28
Speaker 1: a lame rave. I was too old for raves, thankfully.
24:32
Speaker 1: That was right in my wheelhouse. Yeah, that makes sense.
24:35
Speaker 1: I uh. I lived over on the Um West side
24:38
Speaker 1: of Atlanta in uh the right at the turn of
24:42
Speaker 1: the millennium, and those big warehouses and you know the
24:45
Speaker 1: big tower there um in the west End. If you
24:49
Speaker 1: could drive in the West End, there's a big blue
24:51
Speaker 1: tower that sticks up and that tower. Someone lived there
24:55
Speaker 1: and they would have raves on the weekend, and people do.
24:58
Speaker 1: People would drive from like Tennessee an Alba go to
25:01
Speaker 1: these things for like a good rave. Yeah, and we
25:03
Speaker 1: would sit around and make fun of them and actually
25:07
Speaker 1: win in one time. You think, not my scene, not
25:12
Speaker 1: my scene at all. Um, but uh yeah, I mean
25:17
Speaker 1: my pants did not taper out to like two ft
25:19
Speaker 1: at the bottom, you know what I mean. But um,
25:22
Speaker 1: it was interesting. Yeah, it's a culture I wasn't familiar with.
25:25
Speaker 1: I'm glad you wouldn't expose yourself. Yeah, well I didn't
25:28
Speaker 1: exposed to check this out. Ravers your God, I thought
25:35
Speaker 1: I was an old man back then, didn't it crazy?
25:37
Speaker 1: Yeah in two thousand, that was fifteen years ago, it
25:41
Speaker 1: was like thirty. Yeah, that's not I can I'm here
25:44
Speaker 1: to tell you, Like if I went to a rave today,
25:47
Speaker 1: people would they would call security? Yeah exactly, Uh where
25:54
Speaker 1: were we? Oh? Yeah. The erosion of the wall, there's
25:56
Speaker 1: a lot of estimates, but um, I've seen everything from
25:59
Speaker 1: a third of it to half of it is gone. Yeah,
26:03
Speaker 1: and um, it's it's probably hard to tell because the
26:06
Speaker 1: same reason it's hard to measure. It's just so big. Yeah,
26:09
Speaker 1: and a lot of it it's like, well, is that
26:11
Speaker 1: river part of it? Do we count that? Who knows? Um?
26:15
Speaker 1: But yeah, it is in big trouble and there are
26:18
Speaker 1: some parts of it that are gone forever. Um. In
26:21
Speaker 1: addition to tourists and raves and people driving cars and
26:24
Speaker 1: driving their cattle across the um wall, construction companies will
26:29
Speaker 1: build roads right through it, yeah, or just a big
26:32
Speaker 1: factory or something right upon it. Yeah. So finally China
26:36
Speaker 1: said uh. And again it was Danjo Ping. Who I
26:40
Speaker 1: love that guy's name. It's a wonderful name. Um. He said, Uh,
26:44
Speaker 1: I love China preserved the wall. He came up with
26:47
Speaker 1: a slogan. I think you got to start with the slogan.
26:50
Speaker 1: It really Yeah, slogans worked. This is proof positive of it.
26:54
Speaker 1: And within fifteen twenty years, the Chinese government, well I
26:57
Speaker 1: guess provincial governments were starting to enact their own laws
27:01
Speaker 1: restricting what you could or couldn't do on the wall
27:04
Speaker 1: with the wall to the wall right. And then finally,
27:08
Speaker 1: and I think two thousand eight ish maybe two thousand seven, um,
27:11
Speaker 1: the Chinese government, the federal government itself, said Um, okay,
27:17
Speaker 1: we're gonna come up with our own walls or our
27:19
Speaker 1: own laws regarding the wall, and they started to take
27:22
Speaker 1: it seriously. And um part depending on who you talk to,
27:28
Speaker 1: it is because it's a huge tourist attraction that brings
27:31
Speaker 1: in ten million people and all their money every year.
27:36
Speaker 1: Gotta protect that, or because it's part of China's heritage
27:39
Speaker 1: and it shows like we're an ancient culture that could
27:43
Speaker 1: do this with our eyes closed. Just watch us in
27:45
Speaker 1: the century Chinese fever catch it, right, you know that
27:49
Speaker 1: kind of Well? How about it's both probably probably, but
27:53
Speaker 1: there are some real laws in place. UM now it
27:56
Speaker 1: is uh illegal to take any bricks um or to
28:01
Speaker 1: do things like build too close to it. I think
28:04
Speaker 1: within any building within sixt feet five um is not
28:09
Speaker 1: allowed anymore. I don't think um gathering firewood hurting your animals.
28:14
Speaker 1: So here's so I have to stop. Do you have
28:16
Speaker 1: any idea what's what's the gathering firewood thing? Is that
28:19
Speaker 1: chopping down a tree? I don't know. I couldn't find
28:22
Speaker 1: that anywhere like why they're in, I could not find
28:26
Speaker 1: it anywhere else. So it has to just be chopping
28:29
Speaker 1: down a tree that leads to erosion. That's the only
28:31
Speaker 1: thing I can come up with that that I didn't know.
28:35
Speaker 1: If you come across something, no, I just keep saying
28:37
Speaker 1: it taking firewood, don't do it near the wall. Gathering firewood,
28:40
Speaker 1: and that like a quaint, folasy thing to think about.
28:43
Speaker 1: Gathering firewood. That's the first thing you do when you
28:45
Speaker 1: go camping. Yeah, gathering firewood. And um, it's almost like
28:49
Speaker 1: it sounds beautiful too, like cellar door gathering firewood. Agreed,
28:53
Speaker 1: it is very relaxing unless you're in a survival situation
28:57
Speaker 1: then you're that's a matter of life or exactly. But
29:00
Speaker 1: the laws are punishable, um institutions up to sixty two thousand,
29:05
Speaker 1: five dollars for individuals six thousand, two hundred and fifty dollars.
29:10
Speaker 1: See what they did there, huh. But apparently from the
29:14
Speaker 1: Smithsonian article they said that these laws are great, but
29:17
Speaker 1: it's just really hard to enforce this. Again, because the
29:20
Speaker 1: Great Wall is so huge, you can get away with
29:23
Speaker 1: doing a lot to it without anyone around to see you.
29:27
Speaker 1: But I would imagine in the metropolitan areas it's a
29:29
Speaker 1: little easier to enforce. Like some yokel from from Kansas
29:36
Speaker 1: taking some bricks. Yeah, you know, they take bricks everywhere.
29:41
Speaker 1: They go Kansas's Kansans Kansanian nights. Yeah, Kansanian nights. Uh,
29:49
Speaker 1: let's see. You want to get Kristen Congreen here is promised. Yeah,
29:53
Speaker 1: I got no more facts, so I don't need that.
29:55
Speaker 1: It's a great idea. UM. I do want to shout
29:57
Speaker 1: out again to this awesome Smithsonian article from way back
30:00
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight. The Great Wall of China
30:02
Speaker 1: is under siege by Brooke Larmer. Um, go check it out,
30:06
Speaker 1: uh and hold tight and we'll go get Conger. All right,
30:21
Speaker 1: as promised, we have congs Kristen Konger from Stuff Mom
30:25
Speaker 1: Never told You, and she has, as I said in
30:28
Speaker 1: the podcast, walked the Great Wall, but not all of it,
30:31
Speaker 1: not all of it. A very small portion of the
30:33
Speaker 1: Great Wall of China. I have walked, so we we
30:37
Speaker 1: learned recently that it's twenty thousand kilometers long. Did you
30:41
Speaker 1: know that they like did a survey of it and
30:43
Speaker 1: found it's way longer than they thought. Yeah, it's massive,
30:46
Speaker 1: and it's stunning to climbate because since the geography is
30:52
Speaker 1: so sparse around it, you really can just see it
30:55
Speaker 1: snaking as far as that I can see. That's awesome.
30:58
Speaker 1: What part did you go to the heart um outside
31:01
Speaker 1: of Beijing. I think it's one of the main tourist
31:04
Speaker 1: destination like entrance spaces for the Great Wall. Did you
31:07
Speaker 1: take a brick or drive your car on it or
31:10
Speaker 1: have go to rave? Because those are illegal? Now, I
31:14
Speaker 1: mean I did all of those things. I didn't. Who
31:16
Speaker 1: doesn't go to a rave on the Great Wall? Uh?
31:20
Speaker 1: Now you didn't doing those things? Kid, I didn't know.
31:22
Speaker 1: I didn't. I was. I was struggling. So I went
31:24
Speaker 1: in December and it was very, very cold. Um, so
31:28
Speaker 1: there was the weather to deal with and also just
31:32
Speaker 1: the sheer steepness of trying to to scale this thing.
31:36
Speaker 1: It's not There were two ways we could go. To
31:38
Speaker 1: the left was a more arduous path and to the
31:40
Speaker 1: right was the little tourist friendlier path. And my fiance
31:46
Speaker 1: and I were like, we're going to the left the
31:48
Speaker 1: road not taken. Yes, So how do you actually this
31:52
Speaker 1: is probably dumb question, how do you actually access it? Like?
31:55
Speaker 1: Are there steps and entry points? I guess yeah. So
31:58
Speaker 1: we pulled up to it was almost like a theme
32:02
Speaker 1: park entrance, like they have a gate and a temple
32:05
Speaker 1: there and you get like an admission ticket and then
32:08
Speaker 1: they have bridges built to access the wall. So being
32:12
Speaker 1: there when you finally saw it in person, what impressions
32:17
Speaker 1: that you had of it before? We're just totally destroyed
32:20
Speaker 1: or was it exactly like you thought it would be.
32:22
Speaker 1: It was surreal being on it. I mean because I
32:24
Speaker 1: think a lot of times you see the aerial photographs
32:27
Speaker 1: of the Great Wall, so we have this bird's eye
32:30
Speaker 1: perspective on it. But once you're on the wall, I
32:34
Speaker 1: never considered how steep the stairs were, how um the
32:40
Speaker 1: incline is also so steep. There were a couple of
32:42
Speaker 1: times when climbing up, I was literally on my hands
32:45
Speaker 1: and knees getting up. But I also have a terrible
32:47
Speaker 1: fear of heights. Didn't know that would be an issue,
32:50
Speaker 1: but it was. And you have winds kicking up because
32:53
Speaker 1: you're kind of on the side of a mountain um
32:55
Speaker 1: and then coming down having to kind of do the
32:58
Speaker 1: butt scoot down a few airs. Wow, are you serious? Yeah?
33:02
Speaker 1: And I'm pretty fit not to brig How high up
33:06
Speaker 1: were you, like at the highest point, Like if you
33:08
Speaker 1: if you had fallen or jumped off the side, how
33:12
Speaker 1: how far would you have dropped? I would have messed
33:13
Speaker 1: myself up big time. When is that the scientific answer.
33:20
Speaker 1: I can't tell you altitude or anything. So earlier too,
33:23
Speaker 1: in the office, you were saying that they like pipe
33:26
Speaker 1: music out and stuff like that. Yeah, so um. At
33:29
Speaker 1: pretty regular intervals along the wall, they have these lookout
33:34
Speaker 1: towers and I think some of which were actually housing
33:38
Speaker 1: for people who were building the wall and guarding the wall.
33:41
Speaker 1: And the Chinese government has now installed these lovely speakers
33:46
Speaker 1: that pipe like traditional Chinese music along the wall, so
33:50
Speaker 1: you you have a little soundtrack to guide you along
33:52
Speaker 1: your way. Did it add to it or detract? It
33:56
Speaker 1: added to it in a way because it was just
33:58
Speaker 1: such a bizarre experience. And we were also surrounded by
34:02
Speaker 1: so many other Chinese tourists as well, who were coming
34:05
Speaker 1: to the wall for the very first time. So you're
34:07
Speaker 1: sharing this experience with people you know, who you you know,
34:10
Speaker 1: can't verbally communicate with, but you're all kind of taking
34:12
Speaker 1: in this one site together. Can you believe this? Wow face?
34:16
Speaker 1: We were all agog So um. Was the general impression
34:21
Speaker 1: like this is the Dollywood of China? Or did it
34:24
Speaker 1: seem like reverent in like people have died here and
34:27
Speaker 1: that kind of vibe. It was reverent aside from all
34:30
Speaker 1: the cigarette butts on the stairs. That was a funny thing.
34:34
Speaker 1: There was an older gentleman who passed me as I
34:38
Speaker 1: was in my crawling face smoking a smoke heading on
34:42
Speaker 1: up um. So there was a little bit of trash,
34:44
Speaker 1: but it was very clear that you needed to otherwise,
34:49
Speaker 1: like respect the space. They were actually a couple in
34:53
Speaker 1: my group who were huge sports fans, I want to say,
34:56
Speaker 1: of the Seahawks, and they were in all of their
34:58
Speaker 1: gear and they want to take a photo of them
34:59
Speaker 1: with their Seahawks flag. That got shut down very quickly. Really,
35:04
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, So have they have people there minding the activity?
35:09
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. If you're at a Chinese tourist attraction, people
35:12
Speaker 1: are watching you. There is nothing wrong with Dollywood, by
35:16
Speaker 1: the way, I want to put that on the record,
35:18
Speaker 1: is a great place and conger something very special happened
35:22
Speaker 1: to you on the Great Wall as well, correct aside
35:24
Speaker 1: from scooting down on your on your fannie, aside from
35:28
Speaker 1: an exotic fannie scoot yes, And to our English friends
35:31
Speaker 1: here in America, that means but don't get all weird.
35:35
Speaker 1: Uh So what happened? Tell us about your other experience.
35:38
Speaker 1: My fiance proposed to me so we climbed to the
35:43
Speaker 1: very to the highest point we could, and we were
35:47
Speaker 1: looking out this lovely guard dour I suppose, and the
35:52
Speaker 1: music hadn't the music would play an interval, so we
35:55
Speaker 1: were in kind of a quiet lall and I was
35:59
Speaker 1: just like looking out and then I turned around and
36:01
Speaker 1: he was on one knee, and at that moment, as
36:04
Speaker 1: he was proposing, the music swelled yet again, and it
36:09
Speaker 1: was amazing, and all of these Chinese stores were up
36:11
Speaker 1: there freaking out like so many cell phone photos, and
36:14
Speaker 1: the Seahawks people were like, yeah, just throwing footballs at us.
36:20
Speaker 1: That is totally awesome. I imagine that a lot of
36:22
Speaker 1: people get engaged on the probably a lot of people,
36:25
Speaker 1: but I don't know anyone that's got engaged. I don't
36:27
Speaker 1: think anyone but meat Chuck. He's a very exclusive experience.
36:32
Speaker 1: And then one other thing you mentioned, you alluded to
36:34
Speaker 1: somebody almost not coming down. Was that you or was
36:37
Speaker 1: there somebody else who almost fell off? That was a
36:40
Speaker 1: guy named Barry who was part of my tour group,
36:44
Speaker 1: and he was very ambitious and determined to climb as
36:49
Speaker 1: far as he could, but we had to leave at
36:52
Speaker 1: a certain time and he got stuck for a little while,
36:56
Speaker 1: and no one knew that Barry was going to make
36:58
Speaker 1: it down. Then Barry was or heard from again. Berry
37:01
Speaker 1: finally made it, but he had to take a cab.
37:04
Speaker 1: It took him so long to get down. He had
37:06
Speaker 1: to take a cab rather than the tour bus to
37:09
Speaker 1: the lunch restaurant, but then just spent lunch complaining about
37:12
Speaker 1: how much the cab costs. Barry strikes me as one
37:15
Speaker 1: of these guys who would be like God's missed out. Man.
37:18
Speaker 1: You didn't see what I saw, Bengo, Kristen, do you
37:22
Speaker 1: have anything else to share? Go to China? It was amazing.
37:27
Speaker 1: I'm serious, Like, go to Beijing, see everything. It's incredible
37:32
Speaker 1: and if you can get engaged on the Great Wall,
37:34
Speaker 1: it's a good story. Nice Um. That is good advice
37:39
Speaker 1: all around, Kristen. You tell everybody how to get in
37:41
Speaker 1: touch with you with stuff. Mom never told you. Well,
37:44
Speaker 1: you can simply head over to stuff. Mom never told
37:46
Speaker 1: you dot com and everything's right there, podcasts, videos, social
37:51
Speaker 1: media stuff. Mom never told you dot com. Wow, Yeah,
37:58
Speaker 1: that was awesome. An drag and conger in here, boy, Barry,
38:03
Speaker 1: he got in your crow, didn't I know that? Guy? Man?
38:06
Speaker 1: There's one in every group. UM, let's see what did
38:10
Speaker 1: we say? If you want to know more about the
38:12
Speaker 1: Great Wall of China, I think you just did. Okay, Well,
38:15
Speaker 1: if you want to know more about the Great Wall
38:16
Speaker 1: of China, you can look those words up on the
38:19
Speaker 1: search part how stuff works dot Com. And UM, since
38:23
Speaker 1: I said search parts, time for the listener mail. I'm
38:28
Speaker 1: gonna call this pretty serious stuff. Hello, Josh, Chuck and Jerry.
38:32
Speaker 1: I just wanted to give you you all of sincere
38:34
Speaker 1: thank you. I'm sure you're aware of the appreciation we
38:37
Speaker 1: listeners have for the podcast. However, I hope you understand
38:40
Speaker 1: the extent of it. About one year ago, I was
38:42
Speaker 1: suffering from a very deep depression and tried to commit
38:44
Speaker 1: suicide for obvious reasons we all know. I was not successful,
38:48
Speaker 1: and she puts a little wink in there. I appreciated
38:51
Speaker 1: that extra point. Agreed. In the attempt to gain focus
38:54
Speaker 1: in my life, I started an old hobby of running
38:57
Speaker 1: to summon what passions I used to have, and that
38:59
Speaker 1: is where stuff you should know kicked in. I started
39:02
Speaker 1: tuning into the show, uh and forgot how deeply passionate
39:06
Speaker 1: I was about the world around me. Listening to the
39:08
Speaker 1: banter and filing away new information from the podcast really
39:11
Speaker 1: help those long workouts. I can say now with my
39:15
Speaker 1: anniversary coming up, I'm in a much better place. I
39:18
Speaker 1: finished my degree and animation, and uh, I'm working towards
39:21
Speaker 1: new goals and you guys really helped out in that
39:24
Speaker 1: little unique way, and I'm forever thankful. Have a wonderful evening.
39:27
Speaker 1: That is so wonderful? Isn't that nice? Yeah? Man? Uh?
39:31
Speaker 1: And I think name redacted on that. Thank you, dear listener.
39:35
Speaker 1: We appreciate you for letting us know that we're glad
39:38
Speaker 1: we could be part of the whole jam, the whole
39:40
Speaker 1: road to recovery. Man, until you're doing better. Uh, If
39:44
Speaker 1: you want to let us know how we have been
39:46
Speaker 1: a part of your life, for good or for ill,
39:49
Speaker 1: probably preferably for good. Sure, you can tweet to us
39:53
Speaker 1: at s Y s K Podcast. You can join us
39:55
Speaker 1: on Facebook dot com, slash stuff you Should Know. You
39:58
Speaker 1: can send us an email to Stuff Podcast at how
40:01
Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com and has always joined us at
40:03
Speaker 1: our home on the web, Stuff you Should Know dot
40:06
Speaker 1: com For more on this and thousands of other topics.
40:13
Speaker 1: Is it how stuff Works dot com