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Unlocking Belonging with Dr. Terrell Strayhorn · Higher Listenings

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Higher Listenings, a podcast from your friends at Top Hat, offering a lively look at the trends and people shaping the future of higher education.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: I'm Eric Gardner, Director of Educational Programming.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: And I'm Brad Cohen, Chief Academic Officer.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Belonging is like Wi-Fi you don't notice it until you don't have it, and then nothing seems to work right.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: And that's because belonging is fundamental to our psychological well-being, our personal and social identity, and to enhancing our resilience in times of difficulty.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: It's not just a feeling either.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Belonging is the catalyst behind our willingness to cooperate, to take risks, be creative and pursue our own personal and professional growth.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: But what does it really mean?
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: How do you measure it?
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: And, most importantly, what can faculty and institutional leaders do to ensure every student feels connected, supported and here's the key word needed?
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Our guest for this week's episode is Dr Terrell Strayhorn.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: He's an educator, author, a world-renowned expert on belonging and the CEO of Do Good Work, an educational consulting firm that is redefining student success and changing lives.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Now, he may not be able to fix your Wi-Fi issue, but he's a lot of fun and he's got some sage advice and how we can transform our classrooms into places where we laugh more, learn more and immerse wholeheartedly in the educational experience.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: So grab a friend or your favorite colleague and settle in.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Higher Listenings.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Welcome, dr Strayhorn.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: It's great to have you with us today.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Good afternoon or hello.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: We've been doing a podcast too, and I always say good morning, and of course, who knows when they'll watch it.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: So anyway, we're glad to have you with us, so I'm going to jump in with my first question here Now.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: You were cited in a 2023 Chronicle article titled Everybody is Talking About Belonging.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: What Does it Really Mean?
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: And I thought this would be a good place to start, and please don't think I'm being glib, but given that belonging has become, for better or worse, a bit of a buzzword in higher education, what does belonging really mean and why is it important?
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question and it's the right time for me to revisit these thoughts, given yesterday I had some time spent with a client campus of mine time spent with a client campus of mine and at some point I was sort of asking them what they should be measuring or looking at to determine whether or not these initiatives and efforts worked.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: So I talked to them about, like all right, so when you designed this program or this intervention or revise this policy, what did you have in mind?
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: And you know they would say things like well, the people would feel good or that people would have a good experience.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: And I realized, to your point, man, I am frustrated because I know that belonging matters.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: The science and the evidence, some of which is my own, clearly and consistently demonstrates that.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: And when I say that it matters, it's not that it's just about having a good time.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: People do want to have fun.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: We're going to have fun on this podcast, right?
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: But after that, it is also about the fact that the evidence is crystal clear that when we foster and build the conditions for belonging, which is a feeling that has an affective state just like I can feel down and blue and depressed, I can feel warm, supported, safe, secure and a sense of belonging.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: But that affective state also has cognitive and behavioral elements to it.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: It drives the feeling that I have, drives certain thoughts.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: That's the cognitive piece that drives certain thoughts, thoughts of we're affiliated, we're connected.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: How do we communicate that we're connected?
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: It drives them to do things, do things behavioral, like put on a green shirt or draw a logo or quack like a duck when you, when the teacher calls on you, whatever it might be right, and look at you're laughing Cause that's fun.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: So the fun is a part of the formula.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: But yesterday I was sober after talking to folks because I thought belonging cannot, should not.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: I hope not is not a buzzword, it is.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: It's a philosophy of education.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: It is a promising practice of how we informing, how we do our work.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: It produces positive outcomes.
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: That's what I said in the book in 2019, that it you know, those practices, feelings, thoughts, patterns of thoughts and behaviors will cause a student to come to school.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: So you won't have issues with truancy.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: You won't have issues with absenteeism.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: To every single person who will listen to the podcast, you might be a principal superintendent dealing with absenteeism, which, by the way, is on the rise and part is because students don't feel the value added experience of like.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: Why do I have to go to class?
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: What about go to school for what?
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: I don't feel like I'm connected to my peers, I don't feel connected to my adults, but when you create these conditions and students feel like man, someone cares about me, they know my name, I have an important role to play.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: Therefore, I got to be there because they need me and that when I get there, someone's got my back and someone will not judge me as unprepared or, you know, sort of not a bona fide member, but they'll answer my questions and when I need support, whether it's advising, coaching or a shoulder to cry on, I can find it.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: What does this look like in practice?
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: How do you make students feel valued?
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: I was just teaching my own class yesterday and, after a great class with my students, I closed with about two minutes of saying listen, I hadn't done the math yet, but I was talking through how long I trained in order to be able to teach in education and psychology, or something like 14, 15 years, and I said you know, that's a lot of schooling.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: I've read a lot written.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: A lot Means nothing.
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: If you don't meet me every Monday and Wednesday for this class, it'll be a sort of expert talking to himself.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: I cannot do this class without you.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: My preparation becomes alive when it meets your expectation of wanting to learn, and I have ideas, but you'll refine them with your questions and your ideas.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: So every single Monday and Wednesday at four, there's someone in this country, someone in this world who needs you, is called me, your instructor.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: That is absolutely beautiful and I would definitely want to show up the next day to contribute and meet you where you are.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: You mentioned in your opening remarks a lot of contexts and a pursuit of measurement, so I want to explore that just a little bit.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Our sense of belonging does seem situational.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: We might feel like we belong in one class but not in another, in the residence hall but not in the academic experience.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: So how do we go about measuring this?
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: If we're really serious as institutional leaders, if we're serious as individual faculty or practitioners in student affairs, how do we get a sense of what we're after and measure it accurately so that we know that we're actually succeeding with these kinds of strategies?
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: So I want to organize my thoughts in maybe two categories indirect and direct measures, and I'll start with the latter.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: I have written about the fact that every now and again you do need a single measure, because you know I could ask you right now, you know, like Brad, how are you feeling?
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: And I don't have to give you 15 questions necessarily for you to say I'm feeling good.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: Why would I not?
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: I'm with Terrell, I'm with Eric, we're on a podcast.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: I've had my coffee, You've had your coffee right.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: So this is just for people out there who believe you got to have five to 10 measures in order to really assess some things.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: So I've had times where the you know scope of the survey or the project didn't give me 10 items to ask about it.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: So typically, you know one question do you feel a sense of belonging in the school?
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: So I think one is you know, do you feel a sense of belonging?
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: But if you were to sort of add some elements to it, belonging is also we said it earlier's about it it's an affective state.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: There's an affective dimension to it that has a lot to do with this perception of inclusion, acceptance, respect, safety and security.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: Therefore, let's just explode it a bit Do you feel safe in this classroom?
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: Do you feel that you can be judged fairly and equitably in this classroom, this college?
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: It's also about the subjective evaluation of your experience.
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: When I'm there, do I feel good about it?
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: And then I like to add questions that have to do with the repeatability of an experience.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: So the question becomes and I use this one quite often if you had to do it all over again, would you still choose this college?
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: Would you choose this teacher?
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: Would you want to be in this school.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: Would you want to take this class again?
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: Because we don't subject ourselves to things that we don't enjoy and don't have a good experience with.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: So that's a lot of quantitative.
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: I just want to ask or offer one sort of qualitative element.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: Sometimes in focus groups and interviews, we'll ask students things about.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: Like you know, talk to us about the nature of your relationships in your classroom, and then one question that will foster a lot of conversation is if you disappeared suddenly without notice, would someone miss you Come?
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: checking on you, you.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: So I like to think that if I suddenly disappeared, that brad would come looking for me you know, I would sometimes students will be like no, absolutely not.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: They don't even know my name.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: I've been there five years.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: But when students say things like yes, and you follow it with who are they and you just sit with that pause until they start talking, you'd be surprised.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, rarely do students say it's the award-winning, grant-winning professor and that's no shade to anyone who fits that profile.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: Listen, you probably are really really wonderful and great and your students appreciate the value that you add to their experience.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: I'm more impressed by the number of times students answer that question and say it's my coach, it's my academic advisor, because they always check on me.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: It's the barista in the campus coffee shop.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: Or I mean I've had students say like it's the administrative assistant at the front office because she's always so nice to me.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: He's always so nice to me when I come into the school in the morning.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: Shout out to all those who are these unsung heroes who are answering phones and cleaning floors and dealing with IT.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: But you are part of the village of support that makes learning possible in schools and colleges everywhere.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: So if students can describe those people, that's the evidence that we need to say belonging's present.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: You know, I think, the best campuses you can sense this that you know, from the groundskeepers to the staff, to the instructors, everyone is looking at those students with care and concern, in whatever dimension they're interacting with them, which I think is a testament to the focus of the campus on that mission.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: It's quite distinctive.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: So true, I was going to say there's a cumulative thing I don't know if this is the correct term, but the notion of weak ties.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Like you mentioned a barista who knows your name and says hi to you and you have a quick exchange there and maybe it's the caretaker in the hallway that you see on a regular basis but there's a cumulative effect of that.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: They're not your best friend necessarily, but that kind of adds up and really contributes to that experience.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: Well, I love the language you're both using because I think, as you watch these interactions unfold and you're, you know, observing what we call like sort of high touch moments.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: I mean high touch moments don't have to be complicated and they don't take a lot of, they don't have to be, they don't have to take a lot of time.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: Like you know, I was on a campus on the West coast.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: I gave a talk and then they fed me in the campus cafeteria.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: They're like hey, we're going to eat in the cafeteria, dr Strayhorn, you know, get your food and meet us at this table.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: So I'm like I've never been to this cafeteria.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: So I'm looking around and the students become my experts.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: I'm like how do you do this?
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: And they're like oh, follow me.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: So I'm watching.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: But behind the counter is an older African-American woman I learned her name is Miss Mary, and all the Miss Marys and Mr, mr, mr Marks of the world, whatever you know.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: But as the students arrive at their tray she would look and say hey, eric, how you doing honey?
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: You know, I know you like corn, so I'm going to give you two scoops of corn.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: Now listen, didn't you say you had a big test coming up?
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: How's it going?
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: And she'd feed you, but while talking to you about something she heard you say the other day.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: And then, when Brad comes up, she's going to say hey, brad, or whatever you know, maybe maybe she calls you B because you call her MsM and she's like Brad, listen, you can be excited.
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: We got ice cream down there today and I know that's one of your favorite desserts.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: And he'll say oh, ms Mary, I had a tough day today because, man, my science class didn't go the way I wanted.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: She said you know what?
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: I'm going to give you an extra biscuit.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: And now, if I walked up and this did happen that day, she said honey, I don't know you.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: Which means Miss Mary knows every single student in that school, to even recognize those who are new.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: And she said to me you know.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: So what are you majoring in?
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: I said Miss Mary, I'm not a student, I'm a professor and I'm here to speak.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: And she asked me like what are you going to speak about?
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: I told her you know student success.
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: And she said what do you mean by that?
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: And I said well, I'm here to help them develop a strategy that will ensure student success.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: Ms Mary put her spoon and fork down.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: She leaned and she said no-transcript has your back.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: You can tell her about your science test and, by the way, she's feeding you well and the model of belonging anchors and Basil's hierarchy of needs you got to eat in order to feel a sense of belonging.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: Ms Mary's going to take care of that.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: So now what we take from this is how are we creating schools I'm talking structurally, sometimes even physically and organizationally?
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: How are we creating colleges, universities, science labs, student lounges that facilitate those kinds of connections between adults and students?
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: I think this is just sort of that theory to practice piece that sometimes gets lost and people say, yeah, belonging matters.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: I know it produces positive outcomes, but then we don't take it that next step to start thinking through the design and the mechanics and the architecture of belonging in our programs and services.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: If you're enjoying the show, you can do us a favor by subscribing to Higher Listenings on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: You can also write us a review.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: We'd love to hear your thoughts or invite a friend.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: And last, most important of all, thanks for listening Back to the show.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Do you see us making meaningful progress on the issue of belonging in higher education?
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: And maybe, more to the point, what are institutions perhaps getting right at this point and where do we need to focus more energy?
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: As I mentioned yesterday, I had a lineup of virtual calls with client campuses and I felt like we spent too much time on the fun and we want to boost belonging and so we're planning a welcome back barbecue.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Listen, I'm vegan so I can't eat it anyway, but I'm not against barbecues, although there's vegan barbecue.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: But when I write about belonging, when I think about belonging, my mind doesn't Stop with barbecues.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: I think these traditions are important and they will feel fun and students will be full with food and energy, and that tracks on to belonging.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: But it's not the totality of belonging.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: I think the assessment I have right now is there's still a lot of good work to be done, especially in the application of science to practice, application of theory to practice.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: How do you do this?
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: What's the playbook?
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: What are the ways that you can customize your interventions and approaches that will still be true to form but also sort of situated in our own context?
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: So that work, I think, is still out there.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: For everyone who's still thinking about theses dissertations, your next book project, I think the field in the world needs a lot more in that space.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: I don't think people are not convinced that belonging matters.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: I think, to your point they're coming out of the pandemic.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: Most folks are realizing all of us changed.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Now we're back on campus and, as they would say, the organization just doesn't feel the same.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: So I think there's some work there too.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: We've got to help people.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: How do you get back to this and call people back to work, call people back to campus, call people back to school and then work on building that sense of connecting this community?
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: So to me, that's where the barbecue, the pep rally, the convocation comes in, because to feel a part of a community, community is a collection of people or a constellation of people who are brought together and they share certain things in common.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: But if I have one concern, I think that we don't have enough traditions in higher education.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: Like I've been on campuses that will say, oh, my students will say, Dr Strayhorn, don't walk under that bell.
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: And I'm like what do you mean?
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: And then don't walk under the bell.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: They're like, oh no, you're not supposed to walk under that bell until you graduate.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: That's cool.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: No, you wouldn't know that unless you're a bona fide member of that community.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: So it sounds a little hokey, but there's actually a pretty serious element to these traditions and that is it's shared information that can foster some shared belief, even if it's superstitious, right, but we share it in common and through this common experience we feel first of all a part of a group and we also then start operating as one.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: So I think traditions really do matter.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: I don't think we have to convince people that belonging matters.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: People know that it's a basic human need, but we do need some clarification about what it requires.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: It's not about fitting in, especially not when you were born to stand out Right.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: So we've got to create spaces where people who are alike and people who are different can still come together, develop trusting, supportive, loving relationships that have a healthy level of codependency.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: Part of it is that you need me and I need you.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: That's a really interesting thought.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: I know I feel valued and like I'm an important member of our team when I know people are depending on me for things Could be a deliverable or maybe it's offering advice, but the point is, to feel needed is a really powerful thing.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: So how do you nurture this idea of codependency?
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: Some of that we start to articulate through our codes of conduct.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: Some of it we start to explain through our policies, like the student handbook.
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: But even in classrooms we start to facilitate and structure it when we organize students into groups and it's not just putting students in groups of four, groups of six.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: We also designate certain roles.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: So one of you will be a reader, another one of you will be a timekeeper, another one of you is going to be the reporter, and then one of you got to get up and speak to the group.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: That's so great Four students in a group.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: Every person needs a role.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: Listen.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: Hopefully, eric, you can keep time, because we need you to do this for this activity, and hopefully, brad, you're comfortable speaking in front of groups because the team needs you to do that.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: And when instructors create these kind of conditions, offer students the instructions they need in order to execute and complete that task successfully.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: You are doing the work of belonging and that will lead to success.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: It doesn't happen the same way for everyone.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: What works for your belonging may not work for mine.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: So we need to parse and disaggregate this evidence base so that we understand what works for students who are living with disabilities, what works well for those who are LGBTQIA2S+, what works well for students who are in the foster system?
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: And then we do really good work that tests these interventions and then we take that evidence base and start talking about what did it do under what conditions for whom?
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: That's the outcome-based work.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: You say what are people doing right?
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: People are, they're trying.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: You know belonging is at the center of dozens of strategic plans across the country that provost presidents, working with their boards, have made this an institutional priority.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: The challenge, however, is for it to be an institutional priority and a strategic goal.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: It's got to be more than barbecues and pep rallies and sing-alongs.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: It's got to get down to okay.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: Now, how are we using the science of belonging to transform pedagogy and how are we using this to create the kinds of experiences that offer our students high touch, purposeful, meaningful connections with adults, teachers, educators, through, like undergraduate research, experiences with faculty, through study abroad experiences, writing, intensive kinds of courses, living learning communities.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: These are educationally effective practices that actually do correlate strongly with belonging and some of my work has called it out.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: And then, lastly, how are we using the science of belonging to shape structures?
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: You know, like you go into an average classroom.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: They're not naturally kind of set up for people to interact with one another.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: I have a friend who studies hip hop education, who often special shout out to Dr Chris Emden, and he and his colleagues often talk about education being a site for production and movement.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: We are, as humans, are not built to sit in a chair for eight hours, with the exceptional occasional permission to go to the restroom for eight hours, with the exceptional occasional permission to go to the restroom, right.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: So how do we reimagine and redesign spaces where students can get up and move and be in community with one another and their teachers and their instructor in that way?
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: My 16-year-old would be agreeing wholeheartedly with you.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: He makes frequent trips to the bathroom during class time, which is something that comes up in parent-teacher interviews quite frequently.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I learn more about you every day, Eric.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: So I have another son who headed off to university last year and before he went I said you're going to feel lonely, Like you're going to feel out of sorts, and it's likely going to be the case for at least the first few weeks.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: It's going to take a while for you to settle in, likely going to be the case for at least the first few weeks.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: It's going to take a while for you to settle in, and I thought setting that expectation might instill some of the resilience necessary for him to persevere through that initial transition.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: So I'm curious to know what do you make of the notion of normalizing the challenge of finding a sense of belonging to students?
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, as we were talking, I was like, oh my gosh, that's an intervention.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: I know Greg Walton and Jeff Cohen shout out to those scholars out there do this kind of these small intervention projects where you do that exact thing, work pretty well.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: Most of his studies suggest that normalizing uncertainty and normalizing self-doubt helps students with what we call, in psychology, pluralistic ignorance this idea that I'm the only person who's going to feel this way when I get to college, I'm the only person who's going to struggle that first week.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: And then we personalize it so much or students personalize it so much and then, as all humans do, that we try to look for what's the cause of this.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: I'm doubting myself.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: I don't feel like I'm in the right place.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: I don't feel like I'm in the right science classroom.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: Uh-oh, it's because I don't belong in college.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: Uh-oh, it's because I'm not smart enough.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: It's not because it's because I'm.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: I'm lacking something that everyone around me has.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: You know, there's a whole new world.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: I feel like singing that, but there's like a whole new language out there, right Like in in K-12 schools.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: Typically they call it, you know, the student handout.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: You get to college and it's called a syllabus.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: You know we call them principals and teachers in schools, and you get to college and they're professors and provost.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: But who helps the student understand this?
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: So I've worked with some campuses and met some campuses where they take this to heart, so they make that part of the first year seminar.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: Met some campuses where they take this to heart, so they make that part of the first year seminar.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: There's a university in my home state of Virginia where all incoming students get a schedule, a calendar book, and when you open it you know you've got the academic calendar with all of the holidays marked.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: And what's cool about it is in the first year seminar.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: On that campus the instructors will tell you bring your syllabi from your classes to the next class and the assignment that you get a grade for is now moving through your syllabus and putting all of those important dates on your schedule.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: It's so simple but powerful Wow.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: So simple, so powerful.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: Listen, some campuses, two of which I've been affiliated with, take that whole concept and apply it to a passport.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: So you're not just doing the scheduling and the calendaring, but you also get students to move around campus.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Because here's what we know everyone needs support.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Maybe they don't need the same kind of support, but at some point you will need assistance to get through college, and it might be.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: You need help from the writing center, the counseling center, from financial aid, from trio programs.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: You may need to go by the library, you may need to stop by the bookstore, and so part of the assignments are go to these places.
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: What they're doing is not only helping students navigate campus, but they're also exposing them to the support that the university provides before they need it.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: You're normalizing going to the counseling center, going to the writing center, going to tutoring services, but you're also embedding it in structurally in what the college experience is like.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: So it's not, like you know, left to chance or only for those who need it.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: Everyone's going to do this.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: We're going to do it together.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: The only caution I have and I had this when I started reading in that literature about this is you know, it does set students up for an experience that they may not have.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: Some students listen.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: There are students who go to some colleges and they feel right at home.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: You know you got to also know your institution, so it's like know the receiving space that they're going to.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: And I've met lots of well-intended campuses who want more students living with disabilities on their campus.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: They want more international students.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: They want more women in STEM.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: But if you know that the climate for women in your STEM programs is chilly and unwelcoming, my argument is, rather than tell her, listen, when you get to STEM, you're going to feel out of place and you're going to feel awkward.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: You're going to be the only.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: Let's do the harder work of improving those conditions and those climates, making them warm and welcoming and supportive, before we implement the strategy that will recruit more students.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: I think you're in Houston, is that right?
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: So I'm wondering how the backlash to DEI is complicating this work.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Do you see that being a new frontier that needs to be addressed head on?
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Or do you see that as something the science of belonging is compatible with in some way, as something the science of belonging is compatible with in some way?
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, I see it as impacting the work that is being done.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: I mean many folks who are, you know, I would call them foot soldiers for belonging and they're on the front line, whether that is their chief diversity officer or inclusion officer in a school district or college, university, or they're an instructor who works hard each day to create an environment in their classroom that is anti-racist, anti-bias, you know, purposefully inclusive, where students you know their part about belonging is that you know you matter, and one way people know they matter is because they see themselves reflected.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: And so one way that some instructors do this is by doing the curriculum audit, and that is, go through your curriculum, go through your lesson plan, go through your course and ask yourself who's represented, and then the follow-up question is who's not?
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: Who is obviously included?
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: And think about yourself, by the way, because students will tell me time and time again man, I don't want to just see myself reflected in the textbook or see myself reflected in the video Every now and again.
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: I want to see myself reflected in the person who's in the front of the classroom.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: And so we need more diverse faculty and instructors, part-time and full-time.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: We need more women, we need more LGBT and those who live at the intersection of all of these right, low income, no income, all of this.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: So I think you do the curriculum audit to ask yourself who's represented, who's not represented, and then you fill the gap.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: You do the gap analysis and you go back you start thinking, okay, I've got a whole course and there's no Asian woman perspective represented here in the examples, in the readings and the authors and the like.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: So you intentionally include the representation that's missing.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: So we have to do that work and, I think, be intentional about it and fill it.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: But even after you do this work, I think belonging really does require deliberate, intentional are you ready for this?
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: And affirmative kinds of actions.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: What people interpret from that is I'm saying, give Brad a different experience than Eric.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: And if I'm giving Brad a different experience, a tailored experience from Eric, somehow someone's being disadvantaged in that scenario that I'm picking and choosing, I'm playing favors, all this kind of language that gets in the way of this kind of work.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm situated in Texas.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: The politics of Texas don't easily align with the scholarship on belonging.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: It's not that it's impossible.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: It does change how we do it.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: It sometimes changes the banner and the label under which this work is done.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: I've got a colleague and a client that runs a mentoring program, and they have a mentoring program for LGBTQ youth and in this state right now that's very difficult to deliver in public schools with public funding.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: So they've had to think creatively and purposefully about how they describe their program, what, what the daily task look like.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: They've had to open their membership to all, and how do you do it in a way that's still safe and secure and supportive and then still get the funding that you need in order to run your program?
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: It just becomes far more complicated, but I'm inspired that it's possible.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: It may change the nature of things for a bit.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: Here's the other thing that I know is you know, there are also policies swirling in lots of states where, especially in schools, not only banning books, but if teachers and educators become aware of a student's sexual orientation or gender identity, that they have to, by state policy or law, disclose that information to parents.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: Well, while that's true in this state where I reside, that's not true for those like, say, private organizations or nonprofits that come into schools and run these programs, and so I just want to offer that, because I think there's a lot of confusion out there about what's right, what's necessary, who's a mandatory reporter of these kinds of things and who is not subject to the laws or the policies of the school.
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: And so, to every single lawyer, attorney, policymaker who will listen to this podcast, we do need more work and more guidance and plain language for educators about how to do this in a way that keeps our students safe secure, but also feeling that sense of belonging and succeeding.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Well, we've talked a fair bit in this conversation about student belonging, but are we overlooking the role of faculty belonging?
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: What role might our own sense of community and belonging as instructors, as staff, play as part of a larger solution here instructors in their faculty to be barometer checks for them about how they're feeling and they pick up their sense of belonging from us.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: You know, like I shared the story earlier, my positive psychology class yesterday, you know, I ended with this message to them because I want them to come to class and I thought about the fact that I can offer that message to them because of my own level of belonging, that if I don't feel a sense of belonging, it's hard for me to tell you that you belong and you matter, and so it transports.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: That way I'm motivated to connect with you as a student, as an adult, in a school or a college, when all of my needs are met.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: You know, in the workplace belonging book that I'm finishing for this year, I surveyed, interviewed lots of adjunct faculty and I learned a lot from them, who have worked at institutions for decades Well, ok, a decade and still don't know.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: Like people don't know my name.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: Am I invisible, do I matter?
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: And that doesn't get answered.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: Or still don't know like people don't know my name.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: Am I invisible, do I matter?
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: And that doesn't get answered, or they don't get feedback or some response to it.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: What they do is I stop raising my hand and it shows up as disengagement and then ultimately, um with withdrawing either from school, from college or, unfortunately, sometimes from life altogether.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: So I think that it does matter for faculty and staff.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: Um, here's the last thing I'll say is that the strategies that work for students are not the same ones that work for faculty.
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: In the book I'm writing about how rewards and structures, you know, some people feel a sense of belonging based on their assessment of their salary, and so if we continue to underpay teachers, you can't tell them they matter and they belong and then pay them pennies.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: So we do need respectable and equitable and appropriate wages and salaries for teachers and educators across the globe.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: I was doing a workshop in Pennsylvania with some educators, had them all in groups and I said recall a time when you felt most supported, most valued at work?
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: And then I had the groups report out about it and one of these teachers said, fighting back tears.
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: She said, oh, I know what moment it was for me.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: It was when my assistant principal posted the nicest comment about me on LinkedIn, about you know how I'm making a difference for our students and that I'm a part of the team, and she tagged me and I thought man, look at that, how simple it is.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: But what it meant for her was my assistant principal.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: Essentially, told the world I'm doing a good job, I'm making a difference.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: Essentially, told the world I'm doing a good job, I'm making a difference.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: We've got to think about ways to do this and it's just the beginning of a larger strategy that then leads to a constellation of experiences that unfold to suggest to the person.
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: I do see you, your contributions are making a difference.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: You are part of the team.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: We do need you here and we appreciate the expertise that you offer to our students.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: Well, I for one certainly appreciate the expertise you have offered to us and our listeners in this conversation.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your time.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Fantastic.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, my pleasure.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: I'm going to send a couple of notes to folks that I'm thinking about as well, and I'd like to say your message there to end off with is exactly what I needed to hear to gear up for a great rest of my week and hopefully making a difference to other folks on our team and certainly in our community.
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: It's been my pleasure.
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: Thank you both for everything you do to every single person that's out there.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: Listen, if no one's told you today, I got to tell you.
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: You really do matter and you're making a difference somewhere in the world some classroom, some school.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: So be yourself, shine your light, bring your expertise and your passion to the classroom.
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: Never dial down that energy so that others can be comfortable.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: But, most importantly, if you take nothing from the episode, take this you belong here if you take nothing from the episode, take this.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: You belong here.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: You can learn more about Dr Terrell Strayhorn's work on belonging, including articles and other resources, at terrellstrayhorncom, or pick up a copy of his book College Students' Sense of Belonging a key to educational success for all students.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: With that, thank you all for joining us and we'll talk at you again soon.
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