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The Corner CAFE Podcast: Colonial IU 20 and Parent Support T.E.A.M. · The Corner CAFE Podcast

0:00
- [Nikevia] Hello everybody.
0:02
This is Nikevia. - [Jessica] And Jessica.
0:04
- [Nikevia] From MAEC's Cafe
0:06
and you're listening to a Corner CAFE podcast.
0:10
(bright music)
0:15
Families, schools and communities
0:17
in Maryland Pennsylvania are looking
0:19
for strategies to increase family engagement.
0:22
On this show, we sit down with family
0:25
engagement experts to discuss the ideas,
0:28
best practices, and strategies that they use
0:32
so that the rest of us can do the same.
0:35
So let's get started.
0:38
- [Jessica] Welcome back, everybody.
0:39
Today's episode, we're joined
0:41
by two educational leaders in Pennsylvania,
0:44
Nikki Huggan and Chris Wolfel
0:45
from the Colonial Intermediate Unit 20
0:48
Program in Easton, Pennsylvania.
0:51
But before we introduce them,
0:53
I think it's important to explain
0:54
a little educational history
0:56
and how school districts are supported
0:58
across the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
1:00
by a system of what we call,
1:02
Intermediate Units or IUs.
1:05
Every school district
1:06
is assigned to an intermediate unit,
1:09
which provides a broad range of services.
1:11
Things like curriculum development
1:13
and instructional improvement,
1:15
educational planning services,
1:17
instructional material services
1:19
and technology,
1:20
continuing professional development,
1:22
pupil personnel services,
1:24
management services,
1:25
and state and federal agency liaison services.
1:29
Many of our intermediate units also
1:31
provide special education programs
1:33
for students who have more complex needs as well.
1:36
In all total,
1:37
Pennsylvania has 29 intermediate units.
1:40
We often talk about the importance
1:42
of two-way communication.
1:43
And so I'm really excited for today's
1:46
podcast because we are going to highlight
1:48
an example of how to build a system
1:50
to tackle some tough conversations in education.
1:53
Today, we are going to learn how one
1:56
intermediate unit responded to growing
1:58
frustrations and concerns of families
2:00
by co-creating the Colonial IU 20
2:03
Parent Support TEAM.
2:05
This group was created in 2018
2:08
to connect families directly with IU leaders
2:11
in order to create a dynamic system
2:13
for two-way communication and learning.
2:16
This team works towards making improvements
2:18
in building positive relationships with the IU
2:22
and they hope to bring better outcomes
2:24
for children while also bringing
2:26
a sense of community
2:27
and belonging to IU families.
2:30
- [Nikevia] Thank you so much
2:32
for that background, Jessica.
2:34
Now, let's introduce Nikki and Chris.
2:38
So Nikki Huggan is a wife and mother
2:40
of two children with mitochondrial disease.
2:43
Gavin and Hayden, both of whom have IEPs.
2:47
She and her family live in East Bangor
2:49
in the northeast corridor of Pennsylvania,
2:52
just south of the Poconos.
2:54
Nikki co-leads the Colonial IU 20
2:57
Parent Support TEAM, or together,
3:00
educating, advocating moms, dads,
3:04
and families of Bangor
3:06
Area School District IEP support team.
3:10
She is the vice chair
3:12
of the Regional Family Leaders Council
3:14
for the families to the Max
3:16
statewide Family Network.
3:18
Consumer or representative
3:20
for Bangor Area School District
3:22
on the Local Task Force 20
3:25
and is an ambassador
3:26
for the United Mitochondrial Disease Foundation.
3:30
Nikki is an inspired advocate
3:32
who works closely with educational
3:34
and medical communities to better
3:36
the lives of individuals in Pennsylvania,
3:39
particularly those who are medically fragile.
3:43
- [Jessica] And alongside Nikki,
3:44
we have Dr. Chris Wolfel.
3:47
Chris has spent over 20 years
3:48
working at Colonial Intermediate Unit 20.
3:51
He started his service journey as a bus monitor
3:53
and substitute paraprofessional,
3:55
and after receiving his degree from Penn State,
3:58
he became a special education teacher
4:00
in autistic support.
4:01
He then transitioned to educational
4:03
administration and is now the executive director.
4:06
Chris has his doctorate in educational
4:08
leadership from Delaware Valley University,
4:11
where he is now an adjunct professor as well.
4:14
Chris also owns
4:14
and operates his own consulting company
4:16
called, Leading With Optimism.
4:18
He's a master trainer in
4:20
therapeutic aggression control techniques.
4:23
Chris is active in his community
4:24
by volunteering for recreational sports
4:26
organizations and Special Olympics,
4:29
and he is committed to influencing people
4:31
to be positive in all situations.
4:33
His focus is addressing challenges
4:35
and issues by creating opportunities
4:37
through creative solutions.
4:38
He is married to his love,
4:40
his friend, and his everything, Beth,
4:42
I love that.
4:43
Beth and Chris have four amazing children,
4:46
Noah, Jack, Gracie, and Maya.
4:48
So we're ecstatic to have you both with us.
4:50
Thank you so much
4:51
for spending some time with us today.
4:54
- [Nikevia] Well, let's jump right in.
4:56
Can you tell us about Colonial IU 20
4:59
and what services you provide
5:01
to students and families?
5:03
- [Chris] Nikki, I guess,
5:04
you want me to take that one, huh?
5:05
- [Nikevia] I'm thinking
5:06
that's your wheelhouse, Chris.
5:09
- [Chris] All right, all right.
5:10
Well, Jessica did a great job explaining
5:13
intermediate units in Pennsylvania.
5:16
So let me just break it down about IU 20,
5:19
which is one of 29 intermediate units
5:21
in the Commonwealth.
5:23
And in our region, we're currently
5:25
serving over 86,000 public school students.
5:28
And at our IU, we have approximately
5:31
1,300 full-time and part-time staff.
5:33
We do support 13 school districts,
5:36
three career tech centers, charter schools,
5:38
and non-public schools in our three counties.
5:41
And we provide services ranging
5:43
from full-time special ed services
5:45
to itinerant services
5:47
to truancy intervention
5:48
to behavioral health services.
5:50
And our student population
5:51
is ages three through 22 years of age.
5:55
We also provide curriculum
5:56
and professional development,
5:58
educational technology support,
6:00
emergency planning, coordination,
6:02
joint purchasing, healthcare consortium,
6:05
and transportation services.
6:07
And most important,
6:09
we work really closely with Nikki
6:12
and Katrina and our CIE 20
6:14
parent team to support our families.
6:17
- [Jessica] And let me just clarify real quick,
6:19
for anyone who's listening who might not be
6:21
in the realm of education, when you say,
6:23
itinerant special education supports,
6:25
can you give an example of what
6:27
that might be for someone who has an IEP?
6:30
- [Chris] Yeah, absolutely.
6:31
It's a great question and a good clarification.
6:34
So when we talk about itinerant supports,
6:37
we're talking about those services such as,
6:39
speech and language therapy,
6:40
occupational therapy, physical therapy,
6:43
audiology, those type of services
6:45
where we're providing, you know,
6:47
support either one-on-one through group services,
6:50
or just supporting through consultation
6:53
with classroom teachers.
6:54
- [Jessica] Perfect, thank you for that.
6:56
So Nikki, tell us a little bit
6:59
from your perspective, what was happening
7:00
in 2018 that led to the design
7:03
of your parent support team?
7:06
- [Nikki] I wish Katrina was here with me.
7:08
Katrina Campbell founded the Colonial IU 20
7:11
Parent Support TEAM
7:12
And honestly, as with a lot of things,
7:16
it came out of a bad experience.
7:19
A lot of times, families hit a wall
7:22
and they don't know what to do,
7:23
and that's how it happened.
7:26
Katrina was in an IU classroom
7:29
with her oldest son, Sammy,
7:31
and he did not have a good experience.
7:34
And she was like,
7:36
"Now here I am, I'm in this classroom
7:40
and I don't know anybody else who's in here.
7:42
How do these families connect?
7:44
How do we get them together?
7:46
It doesn't make sense."
7:47
And one of the things I think
7:48
we've all figured out early on is
7:50
the chain of command is very different
7:52
in an IU classroom versus a district classroom.
7:55
So nobody knew who they should be going to.
7:58
So it led to frustration.
8:00
And in all honesty,
8:01
I don't wanna make Chris uncomfortable here
8:04
with this, but you know, he's the only person
8:08
that really truly listened to her.
8:10
When she got upset, she was gonna go
8:14
the lawyer route, she was gonna do
8:16
all these things and he sat down with her
8:19
and Katrina's husband said,
8:21
"Let's give this guy a chance.
8:22
Let's see if he really is saying
8:25
and believes in the things
8:27
that he is saying to us."
8:29
She knew that that partnership would be there.
8:31
And she found me because
8:33
I'm on the Local Task Force
8:35
and we connected that way
8:37
and we've been inseparable pretty much since.
8:39
Right now, we have 616 families
8:43
on our support team.
8:45
- [Nikevia] That's amazing. - [Jessica] Wow.
8:48
- [Nikki] This village that we're working
8:50
to create, everybody on this team
8:52
plays an important role in this village.
8:54
We all bring something to the table
8:57
and we all help each other through,
8:59
you know, everything.
9:00
- [Jessica] Wow, that sounds really powerful.
9:03
Chris, tell us about how you initially
9:06
worked with these families
9:08
who were not happy about what was happening
9:10
at the IU to start the program.
9:13
So if I was a principal
9:15
or a school leader, can you walk us
9:18
through the steps of bringing people together
9:20
and what that looked like in the beginning?
9:22
- [Chris] Sure, and you know,
9:23
let me expand a little bit too
9:25
on what Nikki just talked about too,
9:28
what was happening in 2018,
9:31
you know, from the school side.
9:34
And even just for me
9:38
and what I was experiencing is that,
9:41
I was kind of new in my leadership role
9:44
as finally being able to have the ability
9:47
to start making some meaningful change,
9:49
you're a teacher, you're kind of limited
9:51
with the change that you can make.
9:52
And even as a principal or as a supervisor
9:56
of special education limited,
9:58
get into a higher level leadership position,
10:01
you can really start to make some changes.
10:03
And one of the things
10:04
that was really frustrating
10:06
to me as a teacher and also as a supervisor,
10:11
was that there were a lot of barriers
10:14
in our intermediate unit
10:16
that did not allow for clear communication
10:19
between families and our classroom staff.
10:23
And those are barriers that created mistrust.
10:25
For example, procedures that didn't allow
10:29
families to visit a classroom.
10:31
You know, that from a family's perspective,
10:33
it's, well, if I'm not allowed to see
10:35
what's going on,
10:36
then what are you doing in there?
10:38
Which makes sense.
10:40
The other thing was there was this
10:41
movement that was going on through the state,
10:44
through our technical training office
10:47
called, Batan, as well as,
10:48
the Department of Education,
10:50
the Bureau of Special Education
10:51
called, Presuming Competence.
10:53
And CIE 20 was one of the first
10:55
I used to work on this pilot
10:59
and it really opened my eyes
11:01
and a lot of key people at this IU
11:04
to the fact that
11:06
we are limiting our expectations
11:09
for people with disabilities.
11:10
And that was a change, a mind shift change
11:14
that was really important.
11:16
The other thing is,
11:18
I was going to meetings
11:19
and sitting in meetings
11:21
where other school administrators,
11:24
I just didn't feel they
11:25
were truly listening to families
11:27
and really trying to understand the challenges
11:31
that the families were struggling with.
11:33
So as Nikki shared,
11:34
then we had this one-on-one situation
11:37
with Kat where when I got involved,
11:40
it seemed that we were already
11:42
in a really bad situation because
11:45
people were not just being straight
11:47
honest with Katrina about what happened.
11:49
And just to go in and say,
11:51
"We made a mistake, we're wrong,"
11:53
was I think what built that bridge
11:56
to creating that first opportunity
11:58
of somebody's finally being truthful.
12:00
And that's really what started
12:02
the conversations with Katrina and I,
12:04
and there were times where Katrina
12:07
and I, we got into it,
12:10
I'm not saying in a bad way,
12:11
but there were times where
12:15
we couldn't move together
12:16
at the same pace that we wanted to.
12:19
And you know, that was I think,
12:22
frustrating for Kat at times,
12:23
and I could understand that.
12:25
But you know, change takes time
12:28
and it's hard to explain to a family that
12:32
I know this is really, really important,
12:34
but you gotta understand that
12:36
the process takes a while to do.
12:39
But you know, again, that one-on-one
12:42
interaction with Katrina,
12:43
I think is what started to build
12:45
the foundation for that parent support group.
12:48
And then, I'm sorry, Jessica,
12:49
you wanted me to answer a question?
12:51
- [Jessica] No, I appreciate that insight.
12:54
So you have this experience with this one parent,
12:56
help us connect the dots.
12:57
How did it go from one parent with one situation
13:00
to this bi-directional group of 600 people?
13:04
I mean, I've seen the pictures
13:06
and I've heard you talk about this before,
13:08
you have participation in this group.
13:11
So help us connect that dot,
13:13
how did you get from
13:15
one parent who's frustrated
13:17
to bringing a whole group together
13:19
to begin to make real change?
13:21
- [Chris] I think for me, it was
13:24
seeing how that situation
13:28
affected Kat, emotionally, physically.
13:33
It was really hard to see a family
13:36
go through what she was going through.
13:39
And from my perspective,
13:42
I'd never wanted a family
13:43
to have to have those feelings ever,
13:47
the mistrust,
13:49
the just being sad about what happened.
13:53
And I think for Katrina,
13:55
she didn't want to see
13:56
another family go through that.
13:58
So we had to really start to think,
14:01
how can we take a really bad situation
14:04
and get it back to where it needs to be,
14:06
but also, how can we make sure
14:08
that this doesn't happen in the future?
14:11
And that I think is what led to,
14:14
you know, Kat and I kind of just holding hands
14:16
and saying, let's figure this out
14:17
and let's start to bring
14:19
people into this,
14:21
you know, people like Nikki
14:23
that could help us to grow
14:26
and provide supports to our families
14:28
and get our staff here
14:30
at the IU to think differently,
14:32
to get communities to start
14:33
thinking differently about how
14:36
to make everyone feel like they belong
14:39
and they're part of something.
14:41
- [Nikki] I wanna add something onto this
14:43
because I do wanna say, you know,
14:47
to anybody who is listening to this,
14:49
one of the things that was always
14:52
important in this team is that
14:55
it is parent-run
14:57
and that yes, the IU are our partners
15:01
and we want this to stay completely
15:03
sustainable even long after
15:05
we're all gone from these areas.
15:08
But it's having the right people
15:11
in the right place at the right time.
15:14
This wouldn't have happened if
15:17
there weren't so many other factors
15:19
like Chris was talking about,
15:21
the presuming competence, that was Project Max.
15:24
And Project Max has morphed into families
15:27
to the Max, which is now, a statewide effort.
15:32
It was before, but it was pocketed
15:35
and now it is completely family-run as well.
15:39
And with the help of the partnerships
15:42
with Pat and Peel and Unay
15:45
and the Bureau and with that
15:48
overarching the state at this point,
15:51
I really feel like
15:53
there could be a lot more movement
15:56
just like this team, I mean,
15:59
I can't tell you enough how important
16:01
every person on this team is to me.
16:03
And how important
16:05
everybody at the IU, all the employees,
16:09
they are our partners, they are with us.
16:12
And I mean, right now,
16:13
it's just Chris and I on here,
16:14
but when he comes to breakfast,
16:17
we come with topics that are going
16:21
to help families and he brings the people
16:23
that are gonna have the answers
16:24
because he might be the executive director,
16:27
but he doesn't know
16:28
every single thing that's happening.
16:30
So there's a lot of important pieces here
16:34
and he's putting in the work.
16:38
- [Jessica] Yeah. - [Nikki] And so
16:39
is everyone else at the IU.
16:42
- [Jessica] And when you say,
16:43
it's parent-run, Nikki,
16:44
why is that important that it's the parents
16:47
that are running the support team?
16:49
- [Nikki] Okay,
16:50
so parents get angry sometimes, okay.
16:54
And yes, we want the mindset to be
16:56
that we're all going to work together
16:58
and we're gonna find ways to make this happen.
17:00
But there's a trust,
17:03
there's broken trust sometimes with
17:06
school, with the IU, with all of those pieces.
17:11
And if we were run by
17:15
the IU or school districts,
17:17
people might not join.
17:20
That's why I say, we're partners
17:22
and we go through all of this together,
17:25
but we make the decisions,
17:29
Katrina and I have, you know,
17:32
a core group of people
17:33
and then we bring in more people all the time
17:36
and say, "Hey, what are your thoughts?"
17:38
Because it's important
17:40
for families to have a voice.
17:42
- [Jessica] Yeah, yeah.
17:43
And I think it's the whole idea of like,
17:45
you're also sincerely setting the agenda,
17:48
not coming in necessarily
17:49
to like the school districts
17:51
and like we invite parents in,
17:52
but it's, come talk to us
17:54
about the things we wanna talk about,
17:55
right, that we think are important.
17:57
And this kind of gives you more
17:59
of a balance so that parents
18:01
can tell us as school leaders what's
18:03
important to them, which may be the same
18:06
and maybe a little different as well.
18:09
- [Nikki] This model allows us
18:11
the option to disagree.
18:14
We're not always gonna agree on everything,
18:17
and that's okay
18:18
because if we can come back
18:20
and work on a compromise together,
18:21
that's what really matters
18:23
when we keep our students center,
18:25
you know, model and think about it that way,
18:28
that's how we're going to win for every student.
18:31
- [Jessica] I'm wondering, in hindsight,
18:34
as you look at what you've done
18:37
and how you started,
18:38
are there any modifications you
18:40
would've made or is there something
18:41
differently that you would've done
18:46
that it would've made you move along
18:49
with the way that you have
18:50
as the group has grown and evolved?
18:54
- [Nikki] Well, I can say something.
18:56
So one of the things I think
18:59
that we would have done,
19:01
and this may seem a little crazy,
19:03
but it took us a long time
19:05
to do things with our kids,
19:07
like to bring our kids together.
19:10
It was like we found our village
19:12
and we were so excited to be together.
19:14
And then one day we realized like,
19:16
hey, our kids need a village too,
19:19
and they enjoy being together.
19:21
So we started doing all kinds of things together.
19:23
Like we help raise money for
19:25
the Special Olympics by doing the polar plunge.
19:30
Oh my goodness, we do movie days
19:32
in the summer and Chris has helped us
19:34
get tickets to Phantom Games
19:37
and our kids just love being together.
19:40
And that's a whole nother level,
19:42
but we didn't do it as early as I think
19:44
we would have if we could go back.
19:47
- [Nikevia] Which also then keeps
19:48
it very student-centered. - [Jessica] Yeah,
19:49
it does help when you have
19:50
the students there. - [Nikevia] Yeah.
19:52
Yeah, yeah.
19:52
- [Nikevia] Having student voice.
19:54
- [Nikki] And it's a full family.
19:56
It's a family then,
19:58
it's about the family, not, you know,
20:00
I think that's really powerful.
20:02
- [Chris] Yeah, and I don't think
20:03
there's anything different.
20:05
You know, when I think back to
20:07
just from the start when we had this
20:11
challenge, right, with Katrina
20:13
and the IU, you know,
20:16
it was kind of working from your gut
20:18
and from your heart.
20:19
And I think leading
20:21
with your heart is so important.
20:24
And there's a book by Tommy Spaulding
20:26
called, "Heart-Led Leader."
20:28
And I've said, I think it's a must-read
20:30
for any school leader because
20:33
it takes you through this journey
20:36
to really look at people that have
20:39
been in really tough situations
20:40
and led from their heart and the outcomes.
20:43
So I think that's the place
20:45
that I was trying to come from.
20:47
And the first step is,
20:48
you have to build a relationship
20:50
and that's what Katrina and I had to do.
20:53
That's, I think what we do
20:55
every time a new family
20:57
comes to us, the first step,
21:00
is always build a relationship.
21:02
And then secondly is, empower the family.
21:05
And that was really important for Kat.
21:07
I remember when I met with her
21:11
and some of our meetings were just
21:13
going through the IEP
21:15
and talking about each section
21:17
and what does each section include.
21:22
What are important steps
21:23
from the school team's perspective,
21:25
from the family
21:28
and just understanding each section
21:32
and understanding what should be in the IEP
21:35
and how does a family contribute.
21:37
And in hindsight, as Katrina
21:41
and I were going through that process,
21:44
that was kind of the hindsight of
21:47
why didn't we do more and more of this
21:50
with our special education teachers?
21:54
Why aren't we having these conversations
21:57
in our pre-training with college students
22:03
and how do they prepare for how
22:06
to have these conversations with families.
22:09
And I think Nikki,
22:10
that's what's led to some of even
22:13
the work on the family engagement evenings
22:17
where we're trying to train families
22:19
led to the IEP binder to empower families,
22:24
to organize things, to have resources
22:28
because like the bad acronyms
22:31
that we throw out as educators.
22:34
- [Nikki] Yeah.
22:35
- [Chris] That, you know, we know
22:36
and we have this like language
22:38
that we use that's just all acronyms
22:41
and families, they don't know.
22:43
And unfortunately, they don't speak up
22:46
and say, "Hey, stop the meeting.
22:48
What in the world are you talking about?
22:50
What does that mean?"
22:51
So you know, we need to make sure
22:53
that we empower families to have
22:55
that skill, that knowledge.
22:58
And it's interesting, Nikki,
22:59
we just talked about this in class,
23:01
the Delaware Valley University class
23:03
where Nikki was a guest speaker
23:05
and we talked about research that shows
23:07
that even when
23:09
there's really good family engagement
23:11
between schools and families,
23:14
if the family doesn't have
23:16
that core knowledge and understanding
23:18
to feel that they're prepared,
23:20
they won't engage,
23:21
even if you provide hundreds
23:23
and hundreds of opportunities,
23:25
they won't come because
23:27
they don't feel comfortable
23:28
and they don't feel
23:30
comfortable to be at the table.
23:32
- [Nikki] You know, I presented earlier
23:35
this week to medical professionals
23:37
and one of the things that we said was,
23:40
you need to provide hope and resources
23:44
because families need not just
23:47
stuff thrown at them, they need resources
23:50
and they need hope that it's gonna work out.
23:53
And that goes for school too.
23:54
I mean, we need that hope
23:56
that it's going to work out,
23:57
that everything is gonna be okay.
23:59
And sometimes, that's really hard,
24:01
but all of these resources that are out there,
24:05
there's no direct path to them.
24:08
So we need guidance
24:12
to find the path that makes the most sense.
24:14
I mean, and just when you think
24:16
that you have it under control,
24:19
your child ages.
24:23
Exactly. - [Jessica] And the whole
24:24
thing changes. - [Nikki] I mean,
24:25
I have an 11-year-old
24:26
and I'm scared of transition,
24:28
but I know that with all the people
24:30
I've surrounded myself with,
24:32
that someone is going
24:33
to have some great advice for me.
24:35
And this is a really lonely journey.
24:40
So when you are a professional,
24:43
like Chris said to himself,
24:45
this is what I wanna do with myself,
24:47
there is not a parent that it was like,
24:51
I am gonna have a special needs child.
24:53
That is what I am going to do.
24:54
I am gonna make sure, nobody says that.
24:57
So we need help because we didn't expect this.
25:02
And there are so many different levels
25:06
of families, every family
25:09
has a different dynamic.
25:11
So this journey is not easy.
25:15
And that's why things like this team
25:18
and having, you know, people around us,
25:21
like all of these IU leaders at IU 20
25:25
live and breathe this, they are with us.
25:28
If I called Chris tonight and said,
25:30
"I don't know what to do about this,"
25:32
he would help me.
25:34
If I called, you know, any of them,
25:36
they would be there for me.
25:38
And that's huge.
25:40
- [Jessica] Yeah, I think you
25:41
make a really good point there, Nikki,
25:42
in that it is isolating.
25:46
I think there are parts of parenthood
25:48
that I often feel very unsure of next steps
25:53
as my children continue to age and develop.
25:56
And as parents, we're always thinking like,
25:58
is this just happening to me
26:00
or is this happening to everybody, right?
26:01
Is this developmentally appropriate?
26:04
Am I doing the right thing?
26:06
It's not something that most people
26:09
don't get a ton of training and resources.
26:11
And I think families do need that.
26:13
And they do need the reassurance of,
26:14
you're doing a good job,
26:16
you're on the right track.
26:18
I like what you said about having hope,
26:21
but I think it's really important that
26:22
we emphasize the hope with a plan,
26:25
not just the, oh, it's gonna be fine,
26:27
it's all gonna turn out okay, right?
26:29
Because that causes a lot of anxiety too.
26:31
But that whole idea of like,
26:33
if we work together
26:34
and we come up with this plan,
26:35
we can make progress together.
26:38
That's a very powerful
26:39
statement to think about that.
26:41
So I hear you saying,
26:43
I heard you mention a breakfast
26:44
that occurs, I think once a month,
26:47
and I heard you say, parent nights
26:50
where you're teaching
26:51
some processes and procedures.
26:52
So talk to me a little bit about
26:55
how your meetings are structured for this team.
26:57
- [Nikki] So once a month,
26:59
we have a breakfast during the school year,
27:00
and then in the summer,
27:01
we do day activities with the kids.
27:04
And we do a dinner because
27:07
you know, we need to decompress too.
27:09
We're, you know, families.
27:11
So during the school year,
27:12
every other month, we invite the IU.
27:15
Sometimes, we have to invite them more
27:17
than usual because there's so many topics
27:19
that families wanna hear about.
27:21
But it is nice to have, you know,
27:23
times for us to just be together.
27:25
And Chris and everyone from the IU is very aware,
27:29
like sometimes, they'll leave a breakfast
27:32
early so that we do have some time
27:35
together to kind of decompress
27:36
after they're gone
27:37
and talk about what's been said.
27:40
But what we do is,
27:41
normally Katrina will go to Chris
27:44
and say, "Here's what we have going on,
27:46
here's what families are talking about,
27:48
what do you think we can do with these topics?"
27:51
And then they work together on a plan.
27:55
- [Chris] Yeah, and you know,
27:58
depending on what the topic is,
27:59
then I try to find
28:01
who's the person here at the IU that's best
28:04
that can go with to the breakfast,
28:08
speak to provide information,
28:10
background information, answer questions.
28:15
But the rest of the meeting is,
28:16
I don't know, Nikki, it's kind of organic,
28:18
you know, we eat, we listen,
28:21
we talk, we have fun.
28:24
And throughout those conversations,
28:26
you know, we really try
28:27
to help to support one another.
28:29
And you know, I hope,
28:32
I don't know what the meeting looks
28:33
like from an outside observer,
28:35
but I hope like if
28:37
someone came from the outside,
28:38
they wouldn't even see
28:39
a separation of family in school.
28:42
They would say, it's just a bunch
28:44
of people talking about kids
28:46
and talking about services,
28:48
but we're trying to support the families.
28:50
But the other great thing is,
28:52
the families are supporting us.
28:55
And whether it's me or whether,
28:58
it's another IU representative at the meeting,
29:02
we learn so much from our families about
29:05
what's working well,
29:08
what do we need to revise,
29:10
what do we need to enhance.
29:12
We've learned so much from our families to
29:15
make our services better and more supportive.
29:19
And without these type of things,
29:21
like these breakfasts
29:22
or these evening events
29:23
or these one-on-one conversations,
29:26
we wouldn't be in the place that we were.
29:28
So it's really critical.
29:30
- [Nikki] So I do wanna say like,
29:33
it is really organic
29:34
and I do believe that if you walked in,
29:37
you wouldn't really know what was happening.
29:38
Everybody's laughing
29:39
and having fun and working together,
29:43
but I know that families have a sense
29:47
of pride that they're making change.
29:50
I can tell you, you know,
29:52
one family came to a breakfast
29:54
and she pitched an idea to Chris
29:57
and said, we should have this to help families.
30:01
And when he went back and implemented it,
30:05
I think she just felt like
30:06
she was on top of the world.
30:08
I mean, that's absolutely huge
30:10
that not only are we getting together,
30:13
and the whole point of it was
30:15
to put a face to a name because
30:17
what was happening at the beginning was,
30:20
we went to a meeting,
30:21
our very first meeting with the IU
30:24
and most people didn't even understand
30:27
that the IU provides services,
30:30
but your school district is still
30:31
in charge of your child's education.
30:34
There was so much confusion
30:36
and families felt like even more lost
30:40
at first until they started to get
30:42
to know everyone at the IU.
30:45
And then they would be like,
30:47
"Oh, well, that's Chris, he listens."
30:49
So when we're at the next breakfast,
30:51
I'll tell him what I think.
30:53
Or there's Jackie
30:54
and I know that she'll hear me out on this.
30:56
And again, we are not always gonna get along.
31:00
In fact, at our last breakfast,
31:01
there was an issue where like
31:04
both sides did not see eye to eye
31:06
and it was okay
31:07
because we've built this relationship.
31:09
Even we had new families there
31:11
that had never been to a breakfast before.
31:14
And they were like, "Wow."
31:16
Even though they didn't get along
31:17
and it didn't all work,
31:19
nobody came out a winner, it was okay.
31:24
- [Chris] Nikki, I thought you
31:25
were gonna share the one evening.
31:27
And I don't know if it was during COVID,
31:31
I don't know if it was COVID
31:32
or it was just an evening virtual event
31:34
that we were having, but we had a family
31:37
that for their first time attended
31:39
the event and was posting some really
31:44
radical comments in the chat.
31:48
You know, like, "What kind of BS is this?
31:52
Where are all the real families?"
31:55
And you know,
31:58
just was really shocked by
32:01
this kind of interaction that was going on.
32:08
You know, we were able
32:09
to offline make connections,
32:12
you know, with this family
32:14
that the next day, had a one-on-one.
32:16
And you know, you could hear that over the years
32:22
through various interactions with this family
32:25
and schools was the door was shut
32:28
and didn't feel that anyone listened.
32:31
And that was a change, you know,
32:34
the fact of having the conversation,
32:37
listening, following through on items
32:41
and starting to create some action
32:44
that changed that person's perspective.
32:47
And provided that hope that maybe
32:51
there is good family school communication
32:56
and when there's issues,
32:56
we can work together to find solutions.
33:00
So it's interesting, you know,
33:02
when families have gone through their journey.
33:05
Some of our families have faced
33:07
some pretty unfortunate circumstances
33:11
where, you know, even their own esteem
33:14
and self-esteem about how it's gonna
33:16
work out is very low at that point.
33:18
- [Jessica] Yeah, doesn't feel real,
33:19
this feels like a setup.
33:22
- [Nikki] No, and before we move
33:24
to something else, I do wanna say,
33:26
we have been really fortunate,
33:29
you know, we have been going to trainings
33:33
anytime there was anything.
33:34
And when we approached Chris
33:37
and said, "We wanna morph
33:40
this family engagement a little bit,
33:41
we wanna like, you know, change things up."
33:45
And he was like, "Okay, what are you thinking?"
33:47
And we said to him,
33:50
"First, it shouldn't just be families,
33:53
it should be families and educators.
33:55
If this is gonna work,
33:56
we have to be in it together."
33:59
So then we changed the name
34:00
to Family and Educator Engagement Series
34:03
and we try to come up with topics
34:07
and put both sides out there
34:09
so that it's educators wanna show up
34:13
and families wanna show up
34:14
and it's not just about one side.
34:17
And that's really important to us.
34:19
In fact, in October, we're having,
34:22
October 30th, we're gonna do
34:25
IEP tips from both sides.
34:27
So you can get ideas.
34:29
We actually had a school district
34:32
approach us and ask for a flyer
34:35
so that they could get a substitute
34:36
for a teacher so she could show up.
34:38
And I was like, "This is amazing."
34:41
- [Jessica] Yay.
34:43
That's right, that's right.
34:45
That's awesome. - [Nikevia] Wow.
34:48
- [Jessica] That's awesome.
34:49
- [Nikevia] That's great.
34:50
Nikki, so I wanna ask in connection to that,
34:54
like as a parent, how has this program
34:56
impacted your perception of school
34:58
and family relationships?
35:00
- [Nikki] So I have two
35:03
medically complex children.
35:05
So for me, when my children were diagnosed,
35:10
my son was diagnosed at three,
35:12
I went into like a very bad place.
35:16
Like I was so depressed, I had to quit working.
35:21
My whole life was my job.
35:23
It was how I saw myself.
35:25
So to not work was really hard.
35:28
And then when I started thinking about school,
35:32
you know, I'm in early intervention
35:33
and I'm like, "Oh my gosh,
35:34
I'm overwhelmed now,
35:35
what am I gonna feel like,
35:37
you know, when he's in school?"
35:39
And I, one morning just woke up
35:42
and was like, "Okay, I have to figure this out.
35:45
I have to work through this.
35:47
I have to find a way to make this work."
35:49
I didn't have the tools though,
35:51
and I didn't know anybody else
35:52
in the same situation as me.
35:54
I didn't have any
35:55
friends with kids who had needs.
35:58
And then when my son started kindergarten,
36:00
I still didn't have any friends
36:02
who had children with needs.
36:04
And I thought, this is a lot harder
36:06
than I ever thought it was going to be.
36:08
And when I met Katrina,
36:11
I started on the Local Task Force.
36:13
'cause I was like,
36:14
"I have to find people,
36:15
like there's gotta be people,
36:16
I have to find them."
36:17
And when I met her, my son was in first grade
36:21
and I was down again because I was like,
36:26
"Okay, where are my people?
36:30
How am I supposed to figure this out?"
36:32
Because there's no books out there.
36:34
And like I said, the resources are scattered.
36:37
So it wasn't until
36:40
we got a new special ed director
36:43
in our district that I was like,
36:45
"I have to start, you know,
36:47
building these relationships.
36:48
I have to start working closer."
36:50
I already had a good relationship
36:52
with the principal
36:53
at my son's school and his teachers.
36:56
But building that relationship further up.
36:58
And I mean, I even have a good relationship
37:01
with our superintendent now in our district.
37:04
And all of that comes from this same model.
37:07
And if I hadn't found my people,
37:08
if I hadn't found this model,
37:10
I wouldn't be able to do all those things.
37:12
And I hope this makes sense
37:14
'cause it's a like a lot
37:16
to put into one question for me.
37:20
- [Nikevia] Yes.
37:22
- [Nikki] I truly believe that
37:24
unless every person around my child
37:28
is getting the best education they can get
37:30
that he's not either or she's not either.
37:32
So it's not just about my son
37:35
and my daughter, it's about everybody
37:37
there getting what they need.
37:39
And in order to do that, I've had to
37:42
spend a lot of time building relationships.
37:45
In fact, I can use
37:47
this as an example of this too.
37:49
Like Katrina and Chris
37:50
have been very close since I've met them.
37:53
And it took me a long time
37:57
'cause I didn't know where my place
37:58
was in that relationship.
38:00
And I mean, Chris and I
38:02
have presented together quite a few times now
38:05
and I do feel like we've built something
38:08
that is separate from what he and Katrina have.
38:12
Because at first, I felt like
38:13
I was the third wheel in their time.
38:17
- [Jessica] I just keep hearing the words, time
38:21
and like the humility of like,
38:24
going in knowing
38:24
that this isn't going to be easy.
38:27
And Chris, I'm thinking about that like,
38:29
you know, I come from the realm of being
38:32
a school principal, a school administrator.
38:34
And I know that it's super tough to be a leader
38:38
and have to hear that families aren't happy
38:42
with what's going on or they're feeling
38:43
frustrated and that there's a kind of a sense
38:45
of like, oh my gosh, I don't know about you.
38:48
I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I screwed up.
38:49
They're not happy, I want everyone to be happy.
38:52
I wanna do the right thing."
38:53
But how do you keep you
38:56
and the professionals from becoming
38:58
defensive during those tough conversations?
39:00
'Cause I think that's the key,
39:02
is that sense of humility
39:04
I keep hearing in your voice about,
39:06
you know, yeah, we messed up sometimes,
39:07
sometimes, we're gonna mess up.
39:09
And so how do you work on that?
39:12
Or what techniques do you employ
39:15
to kind of work on that?
39:16
- [Chris] It's really tough
39:17
when families share their frustration
39:21
or they are dissatisfied with services.
39:24
And it's tough because,
39:26
at least for me, and I think
39:27
I could speak for a lot of our staff,
39:30
we feel like we failed them.
39:32
And we don't wanna fail our children
39:34
and we don't wanna fail our families.
39:37
But I don't take it personally.
39:40
And I try to encourage other
39:42
educators not to take it personally.
39:45
I try to encourage them,
39:47
listen, try to truly understand
39:50
how the family feels
39:52
and use those moments that,
39:56
you know, you see as challenges,
39:58
as opportunities and opportunities to improve.
40:00
So you know, when families share information,
40:03
whether it's good or bad,
40:04
you have to look at 'em
40:05
as the goods or moments to celebrate.
40:08
And the bad
40:10
are what I call, our gaps.
40:12
And those are areas that we need to improve upon.
40:15
And you know, my advice is when tensions
40:18
and emotions are high, you know,
40:21
what we have to do is,
40:23
we have to take a step back,
40:24
keep our mouths shut, and listen
40:27
and listen with empathy
40:29
and really focus in on where are those
40:32
areas that we can find agreement
40:35
and move forward from there.
40:38
I think too many times
40:39
people focus on the disagreements
40:42
and they get stuck
40:43
and then they can't move forward.
40:45
So it's important that, you know,
40:47
you're always looking for win-win situations
40:49
and I think Nikki or Jessica,
40:54
you know, I think we said this earlier,
40:55
is you gotta keep the focus on the student.
40:58
It's always the most important.
41:00
And a lot of times,
41:02
I think when there's disagreement,
41:04
we lose focus of the student.
41:07
And you can't do that.
41:10
- [Nikki] You know,
41:12
sometimes even in the best times
41:19
you're most optimistic,
41:21
you're trying your hardest,
41:23
there's personality conflict
41:26
or you're not gonna get along
41:28
with every single person
41:30
that's in your, you know, student's life.
41:35
But if you're both on the same page
41:37
where you're saying, "Hey, listen,
41:39
it's not about us agreeing,
41:40
it's not about you, it's not about me,
41:42
and we're keeping it student-centered,"
41:44
then it can still work out.
41:46
- [Nikevia] Yeah, keeping the focus
41:48
on the student, it's very important.
41:52
Chris, I'm wondering, how has this journey,
41:56
you've talked a lot about
41:59
your approach and I gotta read this book,
42:01
"Heart-Led Leader."
42:06
How has this journey impacted you
42:09
as a leader, as an educational leader?
42:12
- [Chris] Yeah, it's humbled me.
42:15
It's definitely made me work harder.
42:18
We have to do better
42:19
and we always have to improve
42:21
and we need to be champions
42:23
for our children and our families.
42:24
And it's also inspired me.
42:27
It's motivated me to
42:29
continue to create a community
42:31
that truly embraces love, respect,
42:35
and belonging for all.
42:37
I see too many times that
42:40
people are excluded or not connected
42:44
and that really leads
42:46
to some really bad things for people.
42:49
And you know, everybody
42:51
needs to go back to kindergarten
42:53
and remember when we were sitting
42:54
and we were singing songs
42:56
about being kind to one another
42:58
and it's really important
43:01
and for some reason, people lose their way.
43:05
And we need to get back to that.
43:06
We need to get back to that core,
43:08
but we're always looking
43:09
for the challenges as opportunities
43:12
and we want our students
43:13
to be happy when they leave us.
43:16
And we want our our children to be successful.
43:21
You know, what I want for the children here
43:24
that we serve is the same I want for my own kids.
43:28
- [Jessica] That's right. - [Chris] And you know,
43:29
so I'm inspired to help lead
43:31
that change that builds that knowledge
43:33
and the skills to both our families,
43:36
our educators that we can really
43:38
make a meaningful difference.
43:39
And really, you know, I was talking
43:41
to a teacher, a student teacher last night
43:45
and you know, we were just talking
43:48
about inclusion and they talked about,
43:51
you know, how inclusion has grown
43:53
over the years and you know,
43:55
he talked about equality
43:56
and I said, "You know, we have equality,
44:00
but we need to strive
44:02
not even for equity anymore,
44:03
we need to strive for justice."
44:06
And when we could strive for that,
44:08
then that's that perfect moment,
44:12
but that's gonna take time.
44:13
But we should be raising our expectations
44:17
and pushing for the top at all times.
44:21
- [Jessica] At all times.
44:22
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
44:26
All right, so I could stay here all day,
44:29
but I know everyone has things to get back to.
44:33
So as we wrap up,
44:35
we have a final question that we'd like
44:36
to kind of close out
44:37
with to get your perspectives on.
44:39
And Nikki, we'll start with you,
44:42
from your perspective, if a school is listening
44:45
and they want to adapt their current practices
44:48
to really engage and empower families
44:50
as true partners at the table,
44:52
where's a good place to start with that?
44:54
What's something people can start to do
44:56
today that would make a real difference
44:59
in building out authentic family engagement?
45:03
- [Nikki] So finding families
45:05
who are willing to put their time in
45:08
and work with them and have a mindset
45:11
of working together is the absolute first step.
45:14
If they can find those families
45:16
and they're out there,
45:17
but some of them are hiding
45:19
because they feel like, they are,
45:22
they feel like maybe, they're in the minority,
45:25
but actually, they're in the majority.
45:27
It's just that anger sometimes
45:30
comes to the top in a lot of families.
45:32
And that's what we see.
45:35
- [Jessica] That's what we see
45:36
and hear first, right?
45:38
Yeah, yeah, what about you, Chris?
45:40
What would you suggest?
45:42
- [Chris] For me, it's start creating
45:44
opportunities that you can get to schools
45:46
and families to talk and learn from one another.
45:49
You know, it could be one-on-one interactions.
45:51
It could be group meetings,
45:53
it could be just sharing resources,
45:55
training events, opportunities to celebrate
45:57
success, just get people together
45:59
and start talking.
46:01
And you know, I think the biggest thing
46:03
and I have to practice this every day
46:08
and I think everybody needs to practice this
46:10
and it's to be a better listener
46:13
because active listening is not easy.
46:16
It takes practice
46:18
and it takes admitting to yourself
46:20
when you're not a good active listener.
46:22
And as much as I work
46:25
really, really hard during the day
46:26
to be a good active listener,
46:28
Beth will tell you when I get home,
46:30
I'm a terrible active listener.
46:35
- [Nikevia] Yes, you get it all out at school,
46:37
there's no more energy laughing.
46:38
- [Chris] So I am admitting it.
46:40
I am admitting it today in this podcast.
46:42
So Beth listens to- - [Nikki] Oh, yeah,
46:45
but I don't listen at all. - [Chris] And she will
46:46
admit it that he's a terrible listener at home.
46:49
- [Jessica] I have it,
46:51
I have it on recording,
46:53
I now have it on recording.
46:55
Oh, so oh my gosh,
46:57
thank you so much for joining us today.
47:01
You know, we've done some work with Chris,
47:02
he's been supporting our work here
47:04
with Cafe for a long time,
47:05
and I know Nikki,
47:06
you and I have met at the conference.
47:09
You know, one of the things that
47:10
I was so excited about is to me,
47:12
this is a really great case study story
47:15
that really fits in with the research on
47:18
that desire of families to wanna connect
47:20
with each other and network and work together.
47:24
And how when we really bring
47:26
in that bi-directional conversation
47:28
and really make it a true partnership,
47:31
really great things can happen
47:33
in the service of kids.
47:34
So thank you so much for sharing that with us.
47:37
Nikevia, what are you thinking?
47:38
- [Nikevia] Yes, I am thinking
47:40
about how much effort you
47:44
all put into making a village.
47:47
You know, and then even with the benefit
47:50
of hindsight, you thought,
47:51
"Well, you know what, we should actually
47:53
have the children in to help with
47:55
building this village."
47:58
And I think, you know,
47:59
that is a great image of, you know,
48:01
building a village to support each other
48:04
and take care of each other.
48:07
And I think this is a great model for families
48:10
and for education professionals.
48:12
So thank you so much,
48:13
both of you, for sharing today.
48:15
- [Jessica] Thank you for all the hard work
48:17
and for being willing to share that hard work
48:19
with the rest of us.
48:19
- [Chris] Thank you for inviting us.
48:20
- [Nikki] Well, definitely, thank you.
48:22
- [Jessica] Yeah, anytime.
48:24
And to our listeners,
48:25
thank you for sharing
48:26
a cup of conversation with us.
48:28
We hope you enjoyed it as much as we did.
48:29
So until next time,
48:31
keep those meaningful relationships
48:32
with families brewing
48:33
and don't forget to follow us on X at Cafe_MAEC.
48:39
(bright music)