Latest / UK Column Radio / Child Stealing by the State: Iolanda’s Newborn Baby Snatched by UK's ‘Child Protection’ Racket

Transcript

Child Stealing by the State: Iolanda’s Newborn Baby Snatched by UK's ‘Child Protection’ Racket · UK Column Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Good morning to UK column viewers and listeners. As you
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: can see, I'm here at home and it is a
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: little bit chilly, so I've got my thick sweater on
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: today because England is not at its best. I've got
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: an important interview. I'm going to be speaking to a
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: lady called Ulander and Yorlander is in Portugal. But what
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: is really incredible about this interview is that we've rekindled
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: a friendship. I think I'm going to say from way
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: back in twenty sixteen, that was the original time that
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: we reported about events around Lander and her partner Leon,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: and the subject is social services in the UK. But
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: here we are in twenty twenty five and we've got
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to speak. So Lander, I'm going to say
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: thank you very much for having that very useful conversation
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: on WhatsApp a couple of months ago. I was delighted
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: that we sort of rediscovered each other. Time passes very quickly,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: and I want to say a huge thank you for
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: a green for you agreeing to do this interview with
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: me today. So welcome to the UK column ran.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for inviting me for the interview,
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: and you actually got me quite emotional.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Now just for the words that you said, Well, it's lander.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: It's a very emotional subject. And of course viewers of
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: this interview will have already seen that you have a
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: mannekin over your right shoulder wearing a pink T shirt.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: And tell us what's written on that T shirt.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: So social Services hid that babies for adoption.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Social Service is kidnapp babies for adoption. And this is
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: the subject. And I have to say to you it's
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: a very poignant subject because over the last week I've
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: been interviewing other mothers in UK on this very same subject.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: And of course, way back in twenty sixteen, in fact,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: before twenty sixteen, we were trying desperately hard at UK
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: column to get some of the truth out about what
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: was actually happening around Social Services in the United Kingdom
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: taking babies and dragging the parents through very very onerous
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: family court proceedings. So I know that for you to
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: actually talk to an audience today is going to be emotional,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: and the subject is so important that we need to
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: still be talking about it. So Jlander, I'm going to
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: say once again thank you for agreeing to do this,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: and perhaps we should start at the beginning, and that
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: was that. Originally you were living in UK with baby's
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: father at the time, Leon, and you gave birth. What happened?
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, So I am a Portuguese citizen and in twenty
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: ten I went to England. I'm a cardial physiologist and
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: I have worked for example in Harley Street in the
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: private hospital. So I was doing very well financially professionally.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: I was integrated very well on the English society and
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: me and Leone, we had the were together for three
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: years and we decided to get pregnant. So we left
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: London and we went to Southampton, not knowing what really
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Southampton is about. So we planned the bird and when
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: I was pregnant, because the nurse in the GP, every
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: time that I was going there was always a different one.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: So then I decided that the services that I was
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: being provided was not the ideal one. Being the first
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: time that mom and mother, I would like to create
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: a relationship with the nurse and feel comfortable asking some questions.
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: So then I went on Internet and I decided to.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Look for a private midwife, a nurse, private private midwife
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: that I was going to provide that service for me.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: But once it was so expensive. Then I found out
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: the service of a dolar and she was a certified
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: lady American citizen and she had a home bird herself.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: But for me, that was not the way to go
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: because in Portugal we don't have the babies at home.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: But in the longer run, well we got to know
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: about how the things are for the.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: All the procedure, you know, it was actually the correct
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: position to have a baby, not actually lying down on
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: a bed, you know, and with everything that we learned
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: from her, and once I have been invited by the midwife,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: you know, after like nearly nine months, I've been told,
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: you know, once you are a healthy young lady, so
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: then you can decide to have the baby at home
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: in the in the bird center in a nearly near Southampton.
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: Now I don't have leone.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: In here to help me out, and and or in hospital.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: So we actually we went to visit that place and
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: it was not a very nice experience.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: Because, for example, or I just ask to the nurse.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: If the actually you know, having leon and you really
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: helped me out with the proper names, because I haven't
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: talked about this for a while, so you know, one
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: of the things that they do to the pregnant woman.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: When she's pregnant, and when she's going to for the labor,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: they are going to.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: Do the touch to say how dilated she is? Correct.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, from everything that I've learned with this dolar, we
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: learned that that actually creates infections. The risk of her
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: infection is much higher, So you don't really have to
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: do that, and there is not much information that you
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: can get from that so on that place. So I
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: just asked when when she show us the isolation of
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: that place, she said, in here is where you're going
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: to do the the touch.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: Exam, And I kindly ask her, do I have to
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: do it or can I can? I say no? You
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: know is like and she said, you mean in a
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: very rude way.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: If you don't want to do it, this is not
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: the place for you to have your baby.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: And the way she said that it was so rude.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: So you know, every example that you do in a hospital,
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: everything has to be with your consent.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: And I know that. You know, I work in a
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: health environment and I know how the things are, so
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: it's not the way sometimes they say it.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: And so then we exclude that option and actually being
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: in an environment in hospital, you know, like lying down
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: on the bed and not moving. That was not the
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: way to go as well. And then we decided them
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: to do a plan for the birth. And the meadwife
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: that actually received that she told me that in more
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: than twenty years of experience, I've never gotten one. And
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: what was written in a contract, our verbal contract with
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: that medwife was the home bird is something that happens
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: in England and is very common and the well the
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: NHS does to the woman to provide the security is
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: that sent to medwives.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: To the houses. So I was expecting two midwives for
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: my home bird and once the contractions they started, Leon
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: called the NHS, but actually they said that no one
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: was available, so we call the dollars. She was in there.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: She was helping out Leon with the pool at home
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: and we did everything. You know, Leon was very well prepared,
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: counting down the contract and all of that, and.
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: They kept calling the NHS saying the contractions, but actually six.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Hours went down the road and no medwife came. So
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: it's actually ten minutes before borns when actually one medwife
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: turned up at my home and her attitude was completely
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: wrong because it was let's move all right up, because
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: I have my husband at home, he's waiting for me,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: and is you know I need to let him go
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: from home because he needs to take him of my
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: child going to the school and he needs to go work.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, you are late. It's only one, not two,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: like has been said, and this is not the right
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: attitude to be in a home birth. But I have
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: a very strong personality. I would say, you know, if
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: I have to say it, I will say it. If
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: he's wrong, I will say it. But neither Leon, neither
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: the Dollar said absolutely nothing. We thought, this is a
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: brilliant time. We're not going to ruin.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: The moment and we're just going easy. So the woman
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: decided to once born.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: He was in a we were in a pool, and
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: she just kept brushing me and said, come on, mother.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: Now you need to go lie down in there in
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: the bed.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Because the pleasanta needs to come out, because I really
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: need to go. So basically what she did she pulled
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: on the umbilical cord twice, and Leon, being at men,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: he knew that was wrong. So I screamed, I hold
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: her hand. I asked her, please don't do it. You
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: are hurting me. Leon hold her hand to and ask her.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Please don't do that. You are hurting you London.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: So in a verly like minutes after I start bleeding.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: So and you learned it. Just to clarify, here was
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: this the midwife that was pulling on the unbibilical cord.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: It's important to say that her name. She did say
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: that her name was Carol Stone. But let me tell you, Brian,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: the name that is written down on her card I
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: have recorded on my homebird it is not Carol Stone.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: And she is not registered with the name Carole Stone.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, the name that she said verbally, it is not
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: the name that she's registered with.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: And I know who she is. Right. It is important
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: to say as well that my parents they were watching the.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Homebird through the skype, and I have a camera recording
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: the home birth, and she always gives her back to
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: the camera, and she always has heidden her face to
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: the skype. And she knew that my parents they were
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: on the skype because Dollar was holding the computer to
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: so they met through the computer.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: It is important as well to say that before.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: She pulled on bilical cord, she gave me the injection
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: so I could expel the placenta.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: Now I know one thing that you never do is
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: to pull on bilical cord because there is a huge
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: risk to create a severe hemorrhage.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: And that's exactly what happened. I lost nearly two liters
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: of blood.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: I almost died.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: I left Leon's house in Southampton completely gray. They called
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: the Ambulance service. The two paramedics they could not find
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: any veins because I was completely already.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: Without blood. I was completely gray, and Leon really felt,
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: really thought.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: That I was going to die in his house, how
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: bad it was. So they called another paramedics and I
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: remember that I was inside the ambulance and the paramedics
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: they are calling for the nurse.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: Where is the nurse?
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: We need to rush his mother to the hospital, and
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: she is nowhere to be found. And I say to
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: the paramedics, I need to tell you that what is
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: happening happening in this my house, the behavior of the nurse.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know if she heard it or not, but
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: and then things happen, you know, I don't know if
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: she's the one that called the social services to distract
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: all the situation from me a complaint against her, But
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: the fact is that the paramedics, they called for her,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: and they said, you have to come now to the
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: hospital because you are affecting the service and the mother
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: ken dye in here, and she said, no, I'm not
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: going to the hospital. I need to go home my car,
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: and that's actually what she said as well, before my
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: car is wrong parked.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: I'm afraid to get a ticket, and I need to
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: go home. My husband is waiting for me, and more
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: four years four years old daughter is waiting for me.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: So I need to go home.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: And the paramedics said, no, nurse, you are going to
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: the hospital. You are at the service of this mother
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: and we need to go now. So there was a
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: battle in there in between them, and then the leon
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: and my son went on her car.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: Because the other paramedics took the car to the hospital. Okay,
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: so the paramedics then demanded her to go to the
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: hospital with him. And I remember going inside the hospital
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: and being already very like, very more on the other
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: side such the same yeah.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: And you you, I'm going to say, you've astonished me
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: because you've told me parts of the story that that
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I will say. Either I didn't pick up at the
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: time we first spoke, and maybe this was because you're
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: talking very intimate details here. Maybe maybe you didn't talk
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: about those details in quite the debt, but I'm going
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: to say I don't remember this part of the of
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: the story. And when when you have just mentioned about
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: pulling on the placenta, I was astonished. I will say
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: you that I'm of course I am retired now, but
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: I'm married to a lady who was a midwife. So
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: within the family, let us say that there's quite a
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: lot of knowledge about births in various circumstances. And when
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: you said what you did, I thought, my goodness, So
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: this is done to you and you end up in
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: the hospital. You've lost a huge amount of blood, and
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: I would assume you were semi conscious while you were
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: actually taken into hospital. So what happened when you were
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: in hospital? What did they do for you?
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: Brian? Let me just go back in something that that
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: is a very.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Important to tell when me and Leone we visit the
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: birth center in Forest, of course, is the birth center
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: near Southampton now on anyway.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: I don't remember the name now, the lady after I
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: said that, you know, after she said what she said
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: to us, like if you do not want to do
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: the touch examine here.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: This is not the place for you to be. I
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: said to Leon, Leon, it's time for us to leave,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: because she did ask me, what's your midwife's name?
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: And I found that like why do you want to know?
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: Like what's that got to do with you? And I
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: didn't say the name. I didn't provide my surname. But
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: when we are back in the train, I received a
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: phone call and it was her, So somehow she did
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: find out who I was.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: And I don't know if she found out who Leon was,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: And I don't know what she has got to do
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: with all of these, so I think it's important details.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: I don't know if someone got upset.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: This is This is very interesting and because very often
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: in stories around children and problems with social services, mothers
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: or fathers and fathers talk about talk sometimes about strange events,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: little strange things that happened that at the time, very
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: often they didn't they didn't put much significance on it,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: or they didn't think it was important. It was only
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: later when they started to think through various things that
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: had happened that they realized that there were little connections
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: with strange things. So I am absolutely paying attention when
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: you talk about that. The question for me was the
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: birthing center. Was that part of the doula organization or
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: was it separate to her?
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Is in a beautiful place of I don't know. I
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: have forest gates in London, but Hamshire is in Hampshire
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: and is like a forest place. Anyway, they will know when.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: The new forest was. It was in the new forest
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: some yes.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: I believe, yes, new forest. And it is important to
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: say because when I arrived the nurse she completely she
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: looked like she was a machine speaking. She was a
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: robote so to though, we are going to do this
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: and blah blah blah blahlah blah and maybe in Portuguese,
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: and because she had a very strong accent and speaking
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: very fast, I really wanted to know where I was
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: going to birth my baby. So I have questions to
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: do and I really wanted to listen to her. So
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: a way to say to her, okay, can you speak?
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: Can you slow down speaking? I didn't say it like that.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: So what I came up with was I'm really sorry,
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: I'm deaf.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Would you mind to slow down, please speak a bit slower?
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: And she didn't like it because in a visit through
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: the center, she kept saying, oh, where's the.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: Death one come to here? Why? I seriously, you know,
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: I have worked in Hardley Street. I'm not used to
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: be treating people like where's the that one? You know?
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: So there was something in there. She didn't like it,
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: and anyway, that's that's that's a detail. But I don't
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: know what she did because she did find out who
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: I was right back in the hospital. Back in the hospital,
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: I went through a surgery that fortunately did went well,
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: but later on the surgeon did say there was a
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: hard one. And when it came out of the.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Surgery, the dola was in there with the lyon and
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: my son was with Leon and his arms. Now it
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: is important to say that was well and it was
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: not a patient in Savant. I was the one having
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: the surgery. But when I come out of the surgery completely,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: you know, still drugged, without my glasses, like barely understanding
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: what's happening, Leon told me, you do, I have to
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: tell you what's going on in here. The nurses they
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: have been keeping asking what's our baby's name? And I
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: have explained that we decided to not know the gender
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: of the baby, and because I didn't know who he was,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: a baby boy. We had no time to decide the
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: name of the baby. And it's not whilest you are
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: on the surgery that I'm going to decide the name
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: of the baby on my own. So I did say
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: to them, we haven't decided yet.
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: So they kept asking the.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Name every minute, and they were actually literally bullying Leon
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: in the hospital, and the Dollar did see it.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: It was a witness of what happened. So I was
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: amazed with my baby.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: I was in love with my baby, and what Leon
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: told me, I start seeing it myself. The nurses kept
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: coming every ten minutes asking me do you have a
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: name for your baby? Do you have a name for
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: your baby? And I was like, I just said no,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: not yet. I'm still Brian. There is a picture of
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: me and I'm completely like drugged. You know, I'm surviving.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: I'm in love with my baby and i just want
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: to have one second and of peace.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: And they keep coming and.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Do you want to put your baby in there like
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: on the on the court, I said no, I'm fine, Paints.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: Have you breast fed?
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: They literally just have seen me breastfeeding, So I was wondering, like,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: what are they trying to do?
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: They saw me breastfeeding him five minutes ago. Why are
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: they asking me if I'm breast feeling And they kept
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: coming and you want to put your baby in the court,
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, okay, this is.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Starting to feel very unsafe in hospital. And let me
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: tell you that Leon is on my side, and we
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: are in a room and there is a coatain in
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: the middle of the room, and the nurses they kept coming.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: There is a corridor and it's very amasy in the
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: car either they knock the doors there. I have a
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: huge light, white light, right on top of me, and
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: I asked several times, can you turn off the light please,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: because I can't rest.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: This light is disturbing me and my baby. No, I
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: don't know how to turn this off. That was the
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: answer several times by several nurses.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: And a very important to tell is that there is
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: no one in the room. I don't know if there
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: is any door on the other side of the curtain, Brian,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: but I did see there is a shade behind the curtain.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: I did point out to Leon, and Leon saw it,
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: So there was a person on the other side of
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: the curtain and was in silence. So I don't know
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: if there was someone on the other side, trying to
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: year any kind of conversations in between me and Leon,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: butout was very weird, very weird. So the environment in
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: there is becoming very unsafe. It's bullying is horrible. And
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: there is one moment I did ask can you provide
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: a chair? We did us several times, can you provide
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: a chair for Leon? Because he's sitting down in there.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: It's very uncomfortable. And we have been told that we
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: need to stay for two nights in hospital because of
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: the surgery, and they want to check blood this and
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: that and to see if I'm well, and and we
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: did ask for a cheerfully on and it's because it's
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: so uncomfortable for us and for him. I'm I'm starting
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: to think, no, I can't stay in the hospital because
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: this is horrible, Like this is making my head in.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: And it seems that they want to trigger me and
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to do it. I'm in love with
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: my son, I'm in a piece offul, I'm in a
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: peaceful mind. But they are really trying to trigger me,
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: like trying to create a reaction. Literally, So no one
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: brings the chair, no one turns off the light.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: They kept coming for the name for the baby, asking
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: if the baby.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Is breast feeding.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: So in the middle of the night, I think there
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: was a shift on the nurses and they provided.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: A long chair, the chair that rocks to the back
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: for Leon to rest, and the light.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Is still on. Leon is exhausted, so he closed his eyes.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: He is sleeping, and I'm with my baby on.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: My arms, and there is a nurse that comes in
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: between the chair where Leon is and myself and.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: She's right on top of me. Literally, she bends down.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: She bends over on me, and it is so uncomfortable
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: that my baby starts crying.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: Leon wakes up. He sees that he finds very awkward,
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: and I ask her, do you really need to be
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: in here? And she said no. I said, okay, so
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: if you don't mind, please leave. That was horrible. As
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: soon as she left the room, my baby stopped crying.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: Leon did say to me that was horrible.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: The energy that came up from that woman was horrible.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: In the morning, as soon the doctors they came to me,
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: I spoke to the surgeon and I did plead him please,
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: I need to leave. I need to rat at home.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Has been very hard in here to rest. No one
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: knows how to turn off the light. The noise in
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: he is horrible. I don't have my glasses.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: I need to be in a good place of my
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: mind to take care of my son. And he said
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: this was actually during the night when he came for
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: the visit, and he said, okay, in the morning, if
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: the blood test is all right, you could just keep
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: drinking lots of water. If everything is all right, then
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: you go. Because I did say to the desertioneon even if
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: you say no, I will leave. I will sign a
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: paper and I will leave.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: So in the morning the blood test was good, and
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: I have been given the what's it called in English,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: the paper, the paperwork that I was I could live.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: And I have been given prescription for the tablets because
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: you know, I was running out of iron and because
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: of the blood that are lost. We're happy.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: We took some pictures.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Was a beautiful son, and we got a taxi and
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: went on. We went home with the condition that I
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: was going home to rest because in the hospital I
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: couldn't do it.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Blunder. Just to clarify, how long were you in the
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: hospital twenty four hours?
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: So born on the first of February at four am
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: I believe now I have the four am and on
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: the second at ten am, tennish outside we're leaving the
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: hospital right right we arrived home.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Leon starts cleaning out the hospital because it seems there
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: was a crime scene full of blood everywhere. And I'm
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: feeding my baby, I'm taking pictures and I'm speaking with
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: my parents, and a couple of hours after, someone knocks
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: on the door and he's not knocking on the door
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: because actually he's an intercom and he's only on for
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: a few minutes. So Leon goes on intercom and someone
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: saying to him, I'm a nurse and I want to
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: see the baby. And Leon says, Ylanda is a nurse,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: wants to see the baby. And I just screamed to Leona,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: I said, no way, the bullying has stopped in hospital.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: I came from the hospital to rest at home. I
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: haven't slept because this was a couple of hours. So
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: this happens on the third of February. Haven't slept on
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: that night, and for the time that I'm at home,
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: I haven't slept nothing, you know.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: Nappies and all of that.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: And I said to Leon, no, say to them, we
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: book an appointment, and we're going to take the baby
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: to them to see them. Not in here, the bullet
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: in here is not happening inside my house. That was
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: what happened in hospital. So Leon, you know, brian anporchies, okay,
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: I'm feisty. I'm a feisty woman. And Leon, you know,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: obviously today you would have opened the door, the window,
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: you would have.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: Done it all. You would have done it completely different.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: I'm sure in even being a man, he would have
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: taken the things different. But the way he saw me,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: he said, can you please book an appointment and we
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: take the baby. The intercom goes off and no one insisted,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: and Leon didn't go out to car on the conversation,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: and then we thought, okay, everyone is happy.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: Two hours after there was another nurse opened the door
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: because we want to see the baby.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: And then it was the midwife that was seeing me
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: on the an chest and Leon said, no, Landa just
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: said two hours ago, no, we booked an appointment.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: So later on she called and she was speaking to
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: Leon saying that.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: She was not happy that Leon Dine opened the door.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: And I said to Leon, please give me the phone.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: I spoke to her and I said I'm the one
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: that said no, we booked an appointment, and she is
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: saying that with excuse that she wasn't there to provide
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: the things for the bird.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: And I said, there is no bird. The bird has happened.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: You're not bringing the things for the pool now. Because
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: the bird has happened, there is no excuse to come
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: to my home.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: So Orlanda, was this a separate nurse you were talking
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: to or the original midwife?
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: So this was the midwife that saw me probably three
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: times in my whole birth on NHS.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: And was that the midwife that pulled the percenter?
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: I've never seen her ever again. Oh.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Actually she went to the hospital while we were still
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: in there in the morning and she gave the baby
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: boots that was.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: Left on her car. Leon didn't recognize her.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: I didn't, and she actually she might be like, oh
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: you don't know who I am, do you?
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Okay? So this this was another This was another midwife
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: that you'd had contact with.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: But it's a very important midwife because I spoke to
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: her on the phone. I said, I didn't like the
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: behavior of the midwife in the home birth. This has happened,
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: and she said, okay, there is a paperwork that you
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: probably have been given now from the hospital for the complaint.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: As an I don't want to do any complaints.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: I just want to be in peace and please then
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: book the appointment and we're going to take the baby
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: to you to see that he is well.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: So she actually she booked an appointment.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: And that Friday would have been the fifth of February,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: but she said that she was fully booked, so she
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: arranged the appointment for the twelfth of February. She never said,
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: you London, I'm fully booked on the fifth of February.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: And it's origins because he's a newborn, we have to
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: see him as soon as possible, so let's book something
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: for the hospital and not in here in the GP
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: or something like that.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: I'm a mother for the first run.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Leon as well, she booked an appointment for the twelfth
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: of February. At that time with we would not have
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: him any longer, all right.
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: So after that phone.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Call, we thought everything is fine, you know, the appointment
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: is booked for the twelve or February, and everything is fine.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: On the day after.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: And knocked on the door, sorry, and on the door
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: again on the intercom and Leon spoke with a woman
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: with a very strong Indian accent, screaming and shouting opening
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: the door, I want.
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: To see the baby.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: And she starts speaking a different dialect that Leon says,
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: I'm English. I don't know if she was speaking Portuguese
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: or whatever was, but Leon said, I'm English.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: Can you speak in English please?
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: And then she says open the door, I want to
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: see the baby, and Leon is like, what's going on
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: in here? And the way she's screaming and shouting, No
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: one on earth is going to open a door with
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: a new born at home, especially someone saying that he's
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: a professional doctor or a nurse. No one behaves like that.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: So the inter con has finished. Leon said that we
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: had an appointment, and like, you are screaming and shouting,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: what's this going on? The inter con has finished the
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: time she has not rung again, and we're.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: Like, okay, there is something very weird happening here, and we.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Decided to Leon called the GP in Southampton and he's wrong, saying, okay,
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: I have been visited by someone shouting in the GP.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: And then my son is well is going to have
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: an appointment on the twelve or February.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: But yeah, you.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: Can come here then and see that the baby is well,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: because this is getting very weird now. Later on, what
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: we know now that they have written on the paperwork
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: is that Leon called the GP saying that the baby
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: is unwell. Okay, they know that that is not true
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: because the recordings they exist.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: A few minutes after, the police knocks on our door,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: really knocking on the door, and because I was breastfeeding,
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: I don't have my brow on and I feel very unprotected.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: When the police says, can you open the door? I
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: want to see the baby, And I'm like, I never
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: had the police in my home.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: What's going on?
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: So I said to him, I'm naked and I don't
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: feel comfortable. And I said, okay, that's all right, get
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: dress and show me the baby through the window because
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: we're on the ground floor.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: We spoke with the policeman on the balcony. He has
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: the camera on and we spoke to him and he said,
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: and he laughed about the situation, and he said, I
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: don't know even why I'm here. The mother is just exhausted.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: The mother is just begging to be left in peace
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: with the newborn. Nothing's happening, and I can see that
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: the baby as well, because even I said to him,
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to get the baby, but the baby,
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: you can see the baby as well. I'm going to
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: get him and probably going to start to cry. He
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: recorded that the baby as well. He has written on
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: the paperwork that it was only a misunderstanding.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: Yes, let me correct this.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: It is after that the police that left that leon
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: called it the GP, saying please come and see the
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: baby because we got very scared.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: Do you understand I'm just doing this correction.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, no, I understand that.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because the police was in there. Now we are like, okay,
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: come and see the baby. Everything is fine, and that's
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: when they put on the paperwork.
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: That the he said that the baby wasn't well and
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: asking for the doctor.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: So, because now we were scared, because the police has
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: been in the house and something very weird is happening.
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: Someone is very concerned with the baby.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: We called Dola and we said to her, this has
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: been happening and because the phone calls the fund doesn't
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: work very well in that area. She said, okay, I'm
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: going to help you out. I'm going to get a
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: mead wife in here. Today is Friday and we're going
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: to get a mead wife in here and everything is
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: going to be sourced out, no worries. So we went
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: to her house so she would deal with all of
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: that for us. When we are leaving the house, I
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: saw my phone that I had a voice call and
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: then the phone was off because you know, I didn't
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: want to scare my baby when he was sleeping and
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: the noises.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: Off the phone. So I hear that and it's actually
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: a voice saying please stay be come to the Southampton
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: hospital by five pm. And this is she did say
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: her name and and then the telephone number is seven
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: five five five, and she gave lots of numbers that
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: the numbers they were wrong, and it sounded very threat.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: It did sound like a threat something was going to
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: happen if we wouldn't be there. We did try to
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: wrong the telephone was wrong and at the time that
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: I saw the voice, the voicemail, there was no way
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: that in Southampton at six seven ish pm we could
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: be in the hospital at that time, so you would
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: sound that we were challenging the authority that would That
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: was after we have been seeing the police.
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: Everything was getting it was escalating and it was not
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: we were very, very concerned.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: So we just got nappies everything very quick to go
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: to the Dollar's house because my instinct tells me that
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: I need to leave my house as soon as possible.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: And when I'm inside the taxi, I said to the driver,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: please lock the doors. I don't like to be inside
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: the cars with the doors open. That was my instinct
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: to tell me. And I know why that had happened
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: because when they were leaving the house and we are
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: right around the corner, there was a man and a
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: woman a police coming on the path walking down.
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: And if the car was not with the was not locked,
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: I would probably.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: I would scream inside the car and I would say
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: to the taxi driver.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: Just run.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: But because the doors they were locked, I felt that
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: I'm finding you. The police look at me, we look
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: at them, and we drove inside the taxi. When we
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: arrived to the Dollar's house, I received a phone call
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: Orlanda is a police.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: Where are you? We are at your home? I said,
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: oh my god, what's going on? Did you not see us?
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: I did see the police, but I haven't done anything wrong.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I didn't know that you were looking
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: for me. So they have written down the legal term
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: that we have absconned. How serious that is. We were
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: in a friend's home on a Friday night.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm just to say at that point, you leander
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: that the expression abscond, we have to ask some questions
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: because to abscond, you've got to you've got to break
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: away from a place which you should be. There must
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: be some compelling reason for you to be in a
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: particular place, whether it's your own home or not. So
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: what I pick up on that straight away is that
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: that word has been used deliberately to make it appear
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: as if there was a reason that you should not
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: leave your own home. That's my reaction.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: They have written down that they have contacted the airport
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: and all of that. So we are in the doll's
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: house that is still Southampton, and they did track us.
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: And when we are just waiting forward pizza.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Because by all that has happened, I have not eaten
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: because we're going to have our lunch when the police
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: turn up at our house.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: So it was not the PISA. Actually it was a
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: Social services But let me tell you what happened before
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: because it's very important.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: And the dollar is contacting the midwife and because she's
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: a Dollar, she has lots of contents.
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: And then she actually she got the.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: Chief medwife of Southampton Hospital of the Neo Natal Service,
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: and she's contracting her to come to see us to
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: see that our baby is well on the Friday night
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: because there is concerns with the baby.
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: And the.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Dollar gave her address to that meadwife because she is
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: in a good faith.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: And we were contacting as well.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: And Beverly, she's from the birth Right of the Women's
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: I can't I can't say now those details. So she's
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: the organization of the women Rights for the for the parents,
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: and what she's saying on the phone to the Dollar
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: is no parent, no mother has to go in a
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: hospital on a Friday night when there is.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: When the baby is well, and actually if the baby
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: is unwell, why then they are.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Not wanting the midwife to go to the Dollar's house.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: Because that's actually what happened. The Dollar provided her address
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: and then the midwife said the hospital is in red
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: red alert insituaiting that and she did say that the
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: hospital was not letting her visit the baby and the
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: parents in the Doll's house. So there is concerns with
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: the baby, but they are not letting the midwife go
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: and visit.
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: The parents and the baby. So that makes no sense.
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: And if the parents they are saying that the baby
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: is well, there is no reason why a healthy baby
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: would go to an environment full of sik babies on
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: a Friday night. This is three four.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: O'clock in the morning, right, so they completely ignored please
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: to not go to the hospital.
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: The Dollar provided the.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Dress to the police because we were in a good
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: faith And what the Dollar said is we just asked
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: for the midwife to come and see the baby, and
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: because we are in a good faith, we want the
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: police to be in here present too that the baby
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: is well. And once the police they got the address,
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: they turn up at Dollar's house. They you know, they
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: bang on the door. Her husband went and you was told,
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: you have to let us come in inside your house,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: otherwise you're going to be arrested as well for not
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: letting us to go inside your house. So they run
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: on the stairs and I literally I just want a
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: hole to run away with my son, but there is
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: no holes and we are on the third floor and
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: I just.
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: Literally hear.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: The birds of the police and the social services, and
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: my heart knows that something really bad is going to happen.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: So the baby is very quiet. This is recorded, This
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: is available on YouTube. The baby is quite sleeping and
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: the social services they want us as soon they see us.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: There is this pipe in here.
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: This is a contract of expectations.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: Mom and dad sign and leone said, we are not
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: signing anything.
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: Oh you have to sign these.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: No, we don't sign absolutely nothing. So they want us
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: to go to the hospital. And there is a cheechy
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: shot that there is no reason why I need to
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: go to the hospital.
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: The baby as well, the mother wants to rest, and
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: we just tried to explain what happened and have everything happened,
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: and that we're not challenging anyone, and trying to explain
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: that the woman screaming in the house that we just
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: don't want didn't open the door because the mother wants
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: to rest it and the police all of us, you know.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: But no, they kept saying that.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: Leon called the GP because the baby was unwell, and
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: the police went in there.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: You didn't you didn't want and now you run away,
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: you know, completely.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: Completely changed, And we just kept trying to explain that
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: the social service, the woman she just said Okay, enough
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: is enough. And this is like already like six o'clock
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: in the morning on a Saturday.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: Enough is enough.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: I'm here to do a job, and you're going to
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: the hospital with your baby or without your baby, and
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: the police is in here to make sure that the
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: baby's going to the hospital. And obviously we did go
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: to the hospital escorted by the police inside the police car.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: The Dollar did go with us, and she did manage
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: to contract and meets wife that she did meet us
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: at the front entrance of the hospital, and she did
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: see that the baby was well. And she's a witnesses,
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: a witness, and she was contracted, and she did see
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: that the baby was well. And then inside the hospital
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: what happened is very important because there is a gentleman,
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: not exactly a gentleman, but a doctor, a neonatal doctor,
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: that did say to this nurse that we did contract.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: And let me tell you that the.
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: Dollar has been thrown out of the hospital because when
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: the doctor is speaking to us, she's recording and he
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: saw the phone.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: And I don't know if you got intimidated by the
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: phone or he knew what he was about to do.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: That the security came and escorted the dollar out. Even
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: when she said, okay, I'm stopping recording matter, they'd thrown out.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: So the other midwife was still in there with us,
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: and the doctor spoke to her privately. And what this
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: doctor said to her is that he was under the
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: orders of the social services and you would have to
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: take that baby inside the hospital. You would have to
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: admit the baby. And that midwife, my midwife, my weakness.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: She didn't say that to me. And what she has
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: written down is that she did say to him, akay,
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: you're going.
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: To sid that to the parents. I will let you
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: speak to them. But the doctor never said that to.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: Us, that he was under the door orders of the
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: social services. What he did say is that the baby
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: would have to be admitted now in the hospital, and
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: he said that they would have to do text the
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: baby and I don't think what's going to be all
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: all right, And.
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: We had to leave the baby in the court. They
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: start putting things on him, you know, injecting him with things,
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: and it was horrible to see the baby cry. And
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: as soon as as we left the baby, there was
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: the police like right on top of Leon and it
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: said to him, if you try to take your baby
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: from the hospital. You're going to We're going to take
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: you to jail. You're going to be in prison. And
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: so why is that?
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: And so if you try to take your baby from
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: the hospital, you're going to be in prison. And Leon,
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: where's the papers?
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: Why are you're taking my baby to the hospital? What's
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: going on in here? Where are the papers? Based on
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: what you doing this? You haven't provided absolutely nothing, and
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: they said your baby has to stay in the hospital
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: for seventy two hours, and if you try to take
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: your baby out, you're going to be in prison for
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: those seventy two hours. They have not provided no food
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: to layon, very little food that have been provided. The
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: little food that have been provided, I have to share
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: with Leon. This is in February twenty sixteen in Southampton.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: Is cold in the room, the small room that have
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: been provided to stay wireless.
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: My baby's in there.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: There was only a bed, shit, a very cold, bad shit. Brian,
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: I have been tortured. I know I have been tortured.
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: I had two doctors. Leon was present, one smiling and
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: sparking and saying it's hard, isn't it.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: We took our baby from you. There was joy saying
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: those things. While as I was in there, they gave
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: me no peace. We need to measure the blood pressure.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: We need to do this. They kept coming in the
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: room and measuring the blood pressure. I've been given no
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: time to sleep. As soon as I got in there,
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: I got a piece of paper and I wrote, you know,
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: twenty four hours forty eight seventy two, planning when we
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: were going to leave at what time? And I didn't
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: want to fell asleep because I didn't want to get
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: lost on time. And we are inside that room and
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: I'm speaking to those up and I'm saying the recordings
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: I'm recording.
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: And as soon as said about the word recording, someone
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: knock on that door in that room and they asked you, London,
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: are you doing some recordings? And then I knew they
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: were listening in their room. And now I have to
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: try to find a way to say to Leon that
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: I know that they are listening because I was speaking
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: to the dollar and I said mentioned the word recording,
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: and they came asked for the recordings. And now I know, Brian,
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: that Leon is going to start probably wondering if I'm
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: losing the plot by saying that the big brother is listening,
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: I'm afraid and concerned that my own partner things that
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: I'm going mental.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: You learned that as as you are telling this story,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: and I'm deliberately being quiet, I'm not asking you too
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: many questions because I don't want to break the flow
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: of what you're telling the audience. But as you are
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: telling the story, there are a number of things that
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: you've already said, and it's like a little tick in
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: a box for me. And what I mean by that
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: is that over the years, I've dealt with a number
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: of families who have gone through some horrible processes with
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: social services, and things you have said. The way that
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: the case this case is building, some of it follows
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: a template, and I can tick something off, So I
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: wanted to share that with the audience. But also, of course,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: we haven't just got social services at work here. We've
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: got the police, and we've also got what's happening inside
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: an NHS hospital. And I've also interviewed a number of
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: people over the years who've experienced very very strange things
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: going on inside a hospital along these lines, even when
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: a baby or a child hasn't been involved in the
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: circumstances under which they're in hospital. So I'm going to
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: invite you to I'd like to invite you to to
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: keep going, but I want to reassure you that me
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: being silent doesn't mean I'm not paying attention, because I
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: absolutely am. And for the audience, if there's anybody out
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: there thinking, well, this sounds a very strange story. Absolutely,
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: it's a strange story, but one I know that you
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: are giving a factual account as to what's happened, albeit
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: now many years ago. But also for me, this is
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: another story about how ultimately social services conspire with other
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: authorities such as the police and the NHS in order
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: to take not only newborn babies away from their parents,
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: their mothers, but also can be very young children or
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: indeed it can be older children. But I think that's
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: enough for me to say at that point. So take
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: us back into what happened.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: So in that room later on during the day, Leon
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: kept asking for the paperwork and they won't give no paperwork,
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: absolutely nothing. We don't know why we are in there,
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: We don't know why the police has been involved.
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: We have done nothing wrong. We try to keep explaining every.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: Detail, but no one really wants is interested to understand
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: the situation. The dolar did go on the day after
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: to give us food because we did say that no
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: one provides the air new food, and they try to
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: block her from the hospital and they don't let us
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: even speak to her. They completely they literally they isolated us.
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: And Leon even is afraid to leave the room to
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: get food because he's afraid that they don't let him
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: come in to stay with me. So as soon Leon
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: is trying to speak with.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: Dolan and they am alone, the doctors come at me
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: and saying that they want.
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: To make a meeting. And on our meeting, what happens
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: is that they are trying to take me to the
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: psychiatric award.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: And I said, I'm oh well and I want to
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: stay with my son, and they keep trying to put
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: me move me to a psychiatric award. And it's because
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: I kept saying no, I'm fine. And Leon says, you'll
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: under say that she is fine. That somehow they didn't
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: do it, they didn't do it by force.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: And on that meeting, these two doctors they do ask
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: me do you have a window in your room? And
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: my mom later on after all of that, she did say,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: you lend them. You are being invited to jump on
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: that window. When they asked me if I had the
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: window in my room, I didn't know what to say, like,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: are they trying to judge my psychiatric my my my,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: my mind? There is a window in the room. Do
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: I say yes?
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Do I say no? Why is that important? Like there
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: is a window in the room. They know there is
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: a window in the room. But I'm like, this is
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: very weird. And my mum saying to me is that, yeah,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: they were trying to invite you once you have the
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: window in there, and because the situation is hard, just jump.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: So that meeting finished and when we go inside the room,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: there is a woman smirking, very happy, and we think, okay,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: the things that are going to sort out, but no,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: she's smirking. She says, you are going to be in
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: court in ten minutes.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: And we're like, what in court? So we go inside
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: the room. Obviously a fun call, and I wander, I'm
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: I'm a lawyer and it just happens to me to
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: be in court and it just happens that your case
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: is in court, and I have noticed that you don't
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: have a lawyer. Would you like me to be your lawyer?
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: I said, oh, yes, please. I don't know what's happening,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: but yes, please.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: Sorry you landed. This lawyer had just appeared in the
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: hospital on a phone call, well a phone call.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: Somehow he has my phone number. And in my mind,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: I'm like in Portugal, the people they have time to
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: find lawyers, they just don't receive lawyers that happen to
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: be in court without the case and available. I know
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: that this is in my mind everything is so weird.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: But yeah, in ten minutes, we receive a phone call
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: saying that they were in court and they were actually
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: deciding my future life, my son's life. But the judge
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: in case it is I want to see the parents.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: I don't know where the parents are, so we're going
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: to postpone this to another case and parents, can you
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: come to here? And I said, oh, yes, I'll go, Yeah,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: I'll go. I don't know which court.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know where is the court iss in South
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: Anton if he's in London.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: I haven't been told last littlely nothing. I don't know nothing.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know nothing. And I'm with
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: a smile because it's it's it's like this is a
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: scary movie. So the phone call was off and we're like,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: what's happening, and kept asking for paperwork and nothing, and
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: then I'm told by the police that now you have
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: to stay another seventy two hours. So it's not just
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: the first seventy two hours. You have to stay another
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: seventy two hours. And there is a policeman that has
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: written on the paperwork that is abuse of power. He
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: has never heard.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: About seventy two hours on top of another seventy two hours.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: But the issue is because the first judge that they
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: did go to didn't see the parents. He didn't want
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: to do the job.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: So they were trying to find an a judge. This
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: is what we wonder now.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: And because the baby is well on those seventy two hours,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: and the doctor that is in there that says that
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: the baby is well, because what they did to him
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: to imprison my son in a hospital and for them
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: to know that I was not going to take him
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: from there, they put him under the lights, the blue lights,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: so he is with the ECG and if I try
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: to take my baby from there, that is for into
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: big So they're going to know that we're trying to
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: take him. So they put under the blue lights that
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: probably there was even no need for it. But what
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: the doctor, the one that said it was under the
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: orders of the social services.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: What he did on.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: The report was that the baby was a serious risk
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: of brain dame damage, so he needed that treatment.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: And what was the basis for a serious risk of
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: brain damage?
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: I suppose it was just under the social services, the
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: orders of the social services, because he said that the
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: baby was diedrated, that's all, and that he was with
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: you know that brown ish colar that is normal when
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: the baby is actually the breastfeed, so he's completely normal.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: What's it called the johnice?
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: He did write that the johndice was a severe jaundice
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: and and he had to do that treatment. But my
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: my midwife went, so the baby has written down that
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: the nappies they're all wet. The johnice is normal, and
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: you know it was the fifth day and the johnice
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: always comes up on the fifth day.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: So and you know we everything was fine, or everything
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: was just an excuse to keep the baby in there.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: They they there is a there is a doctor in
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: there that says to me, you land that you cannot
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: breastfeed your baby because your milk is not good.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: I said, no, my milk is good, and actually I'm
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: doing very well, so I'm going to breastfeed him.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: No otherwise, Actually, you have to prove that you have
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: good milk. You have to pump. I think I don't
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: know how much she did say, has been nearly nine years,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: but I have everything written down. I think she did say, like,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: you have to pump ten meals of milk.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: Brian, that's a lot.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: No moments would have to pump ten meals of milk
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: to prove that she has milk. But because I was
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: doing actually very well, I did ten meals of milk,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: and with all my strongest because I was alone, because
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: they have thrown Leon out of the hospital because he
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: had asked for paperwork and that doctor said.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: That he was rude.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: So now I was alone in the hospital, and with
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: all the stranger I had in my heart, I did.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: Say to her, I have ten meals of milk. I
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: have proven to you enough that have milk, and I
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: press feed him because they.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: Wanted me to give formal to him. So all my rides,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: they were being completely taken out. And then while as
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: I was with my baby waiting for another seventy two
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: hours to finish or something, to happen, for them to say.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: That we could leave because he was well.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: Now, even the doctor said that the baby was well,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: you could go.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: So we just for you just to understand.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: Like I had a bottle of water that dropped it
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: on the floor and someone said, don't drop be careful,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: don't drop your baby on the floor, like you just
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: dropped the bottom of water. So I had the police
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: looking at me, I had the security, all the men
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: in there looking at me with guns, and I had
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: just my baby and I just wanted to go home.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: And we were waiting something to happen.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: We don't know what. And then at the end of
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: the day.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: On the nine of February, on the nine of February,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: because we went to the hospital on the fifth of February,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: and on the nine of February, around seven pm, as
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: Social Services came.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: With a huge amount of paperwork.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: And said, because my baby is in the court, they
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: don't let me stay with my baby in that meeting room.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: There is a lot of police outside and in that
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: meeting room and they give you the paperwork and they
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: asked me, do you want to say goodbye to your baby?
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: I said, goodbye to my baby?
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: What do you mean by that.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: We're going to take out your baby from you? I said, no,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: my baby's not going anywhere. Now this is the paperwork,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: and now you have to go through the paperwork, and
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: you need to get a lawyer and this.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: And then I said to Leam and Leon after we
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: were like shitty chatting and Leon, let's go and say
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: goodbye to him because they are going to take him.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: And they said, you did, say do you know I
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: want to say goodbye to him? You left the hospital already.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: Babies that they are well, they cannot stay in Sikh environments.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: And then we were squirted out of the hospital like
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: dogs by the police, by the security of the hospital,
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: and we returned home inside without my baby. You lend.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: On the day after, we're told that on the day after,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: we're going to receive a phone call saying a meeting
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: point to visit my baby. And I'm thinking, like this
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: looks like a movie. They're going to give an address
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: in the middle of somewhere. And on the day after
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: they run saying, actually, we don't have a room, so
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: today you cannot see your baby. So now we're going
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: to give you a plan of the date for you
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: to come and visit your baby for a couple of minutes,
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: but before you have to sign a contract of expectations.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: And if you don't sign that paperwork, you are not
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: going to see your baby.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: And now we are deciding if your baby is going
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: forward adoption or if he's going back to you.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: I'm my adoption me. He has the mother, he has
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: a father, I have grandparents, Leon has his mother. I
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 3: have never heard about a baby going for adoption with family.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 3: But actually the paperwork asking for his adoption was.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: Done on the fifth or February, when he was still
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: with me, when no doctor would have seen if it
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: was well or and well, let me tell you as
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: well that on the paperwork what they have against us
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: is only emotional future, emotional risk of farm. And they
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: they do mention MMS, but it is not a crime,
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: and they even have written down.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: So Leon has interest for MMS. It's mastermineral solution.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: And it seems it's not very good for the pharmaceutical
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: industry probably or you know, people healing things doesn't give
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: probably much money.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: So that problem is an issue for many people. And
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 3: I don't know how how much that has been actually
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: the reason for all of these. I only can tell
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: you that now years after.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: One day when I woke up, I was I got
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: an idea from my dream, and it was like a
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: Wreka moment because one day when I was pregnant, and
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: on that day when we went to visit the midwife,
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: and the midwife is to the right in Southampton, and
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: if we only go to that road, if you were
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: going to go to see the meatfe otherwise we would
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: go north to the town center or south.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: And on that day when we went to the midwife,
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 3: there was actually in there the black fan and when
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: we walked past that black van, it came up the journalists.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: From BBC Leon Leon, Leon, and Leon ran out on
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: the streets because he did not want the journalists near me,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: and after they did hit a hitter defamation on him,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: saying that he was using bleach with babies.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: Just so that I've got this correct, Orlanda. So this
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: was one of your early visits to the to the midwife.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: There have been no other problems. So you're pregnant and
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: you you you're going to see the midwife and on
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: one of those visits, the BBC ambushed Leon over his
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: we'll call it campaign work with regard to MMS.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: And Leon added shout to Leon because Leon was running.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: They came after hours when actually was a red light
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: for the passengers, so you crossed the road. He was
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: like running on in the middle of the streets with
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: the cars and I did him. Leon in the GP
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: and a GP, so we went inside the GIP and
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: the journalist did not went on top of him because
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: he was inside the GP. And it's only years after
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: that I'm like, did they know that I was pregnant?
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: Did they plan these defamation piece? So the people they
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: were not supporters? Did they know that I was.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: Pregnant because I was single? I have not given Leon
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 3: Edwards as the name of the far because he was
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 3: doing MMS and I know what he was doing. But
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 3: I thought, if they're going to do something bad, they're
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: going to do bad at him. They're going to imprison him.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 3: I'm the mother.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: I haven't committed no crime. If he has committed a crime,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: please imprisoning, but don't take my baby from me. I'm
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: the mother and my baby has grandparents. What's the crime
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: that I have committed? What's the crime that my son
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: has committed? And Leon has not committed no crime? We
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: have been inside the police. We asked to the Portuguese
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: government for help, that have provided no help. I did
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: a massive campaign in Portugal. I have been everywhere on
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: the TV.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: I have been in the front cover of the most
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: important magazine, the political magazine in Portugal. I've spoken face
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: to face with the President of Portugal and that moment
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: was captured by the TV Life that was news. I
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 3: did a massive campaign.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: I joined lots of Portuguese mothers and it was made
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: a huge documentary that was very high in the views
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: in Portugal and the Portuguese people. They got to know
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: that England kidnaps babies will forced adoption because I made
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: other mothers to speak up and to share their stories,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: and my baby name became the name more used in
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: twenty sixteen.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: Yolanda, You've You've given us an absolutely incredible story, and
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: I'm going to stick by my comments that as you
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: were going through it, there were various things which for me,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: because I've heard it from other mothers, it's almost like
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: I can tick a box. One of the things that
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: you thought that you said, and I thought was particularly significant,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: was when you were clearly being challenged over breastfeeding and
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: what I learned in dealing with another mother another case
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: a little while ago, is that if the social services
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: ultimately intend to take a baby away from a mother,
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: they will very often try and stop breastfeeding as soon
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: as possible, force the natural mother to go on to
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: feeding by bottle. But this is almost a technic. Well,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: it's been suggested to me by a midwife that this
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: is actually a technique to start breaking the bond between
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: the mother and her own baby. So there were other
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: things that you've said which I thought were very, very significant,
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: But I don't want to I don't want to stop
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: your train of thoughts. So you've taken the audience very
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: carefully through all of the things that happened up to
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: the point that you're now into the court system and
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: paperwork is is going to and fro. So tell us,
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: tell us what happened as this as this bizarre story
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: moved into the family courts in UK.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: Brian, I'm actually I have decided while as you're speaking, I
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: have decided to share something with you that have never
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: done it before publicly, because people sometimes can be mean
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: and can judge that I'm going to provide that information
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: to you into your audience.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 3: And once mother has.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: Been told, like once I have been told that you
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: have to pump milk, I'm put on.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: A position of.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: Learning to use a machine that is actually hurting my
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: breast and that is actually doing something psychologically that is
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: so nasty that when the woman that is explaining to
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: me how the machine works and going through all the process,
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: I'm actually only watching her lips moving and I cannot
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: understand what she's saying.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: And when I'm told to pump.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: Milk again, the ten meals of milk, I have to
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: use that machine again, and I cannot even stay with
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: my baby on my arms.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 3: What I want to share with you is that the
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 3: psychiatric they say one thing, the psychologics they say another thing.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: The spiritual world says.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: And the thing, well I want to say to you
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: is that my mind and my body that's separated while
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: as I'm using that machine. The torture was so bad
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: that I believe the spiritual word has protected me while
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: as I was doing while as I was through that.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: Torture, and the machine has got a I'm going to
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: use the word psychological. It's got a psychological element to it.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: It's breaking that intense physical bond between a mother and
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: a new newborn baby. But it's it's also got a
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: physical aspect in that for you that it was it
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: was painful to use, to use a breast pump.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 3: Horrible.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: Psychological torture is actually what you have already touched on
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: several times in your story, haven't. You haven't described it
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: as that, But when you talk about officials who are lying,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: they're not telling the truth. You have one set telling
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: you one thing, another set of professionals telling you another thing.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: And they're certainly not being kind to you. They're talking
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: to you in.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 4: A very.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: Authoritative way. They're bullying you, they are demeaning you, they're
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: undermining you. This is actually the application of psychological manipulation
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: in its simple sense. But actually because of the intense
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: pressure and stress and anxiety that places you under, I
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: think it is perfectly reasonable to say that you're actually
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: being psychologically tortured and they were using your baby and
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: and your relationship with your baby in order to do
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: that to you.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 3: And I was sleep deprived.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: I was sleep on the nine of very I was
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: sleep deprived since the thirty first of January. And I
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: did say that several times, and I was completely that
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: sleep deprivation is the worst form of torture since ever.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: And also the other bit that goes with it, Yulanda,
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: which I noted, is that they didn't want to turn
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: that light off. And of course that is because even
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: if you do go to sleep with a light on
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: a bright light, you don't get quality of sleep. But
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: actually a bright light very often will stop people going
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: to sleep, so they were not subduing. They were not
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: reducing the lighting in the room, which would have been
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: a calming thing, particularly for a newborn baby. They were
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: keeping that bright light on and there was a reason
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: for that.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: The room that was provided for me to stay wireless.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: My baby's in our hospital is right opposite to the
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: lockers room of the nurses, so every what three hours
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: the shifts, they change the lockers, so there is no quiet,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: no peace. So once they take the baby from us,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: we were told that on the nineteen or February we
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: were going to be in court. We were told that
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: we could not have the same lawyer. But actually on
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: the paperwork has written that we did not want to
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: have the same lawyer, and we had to rush and
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: get lawyers. They are obviously from the government we don't
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: have money and no time, and we had to rush
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: and just get one that is actually available.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: And in court what happened.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: Is that I'm in the room and I'm actually just
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: speaking to the lawyer because my lawyer didn't turn up
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: in the court and it didn't even say.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: To me it didn't think that was important.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: So I'm just meeting am barrister for them first time
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: and I'm just telling everything. And then we go to
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: the court and everything that was said that we were
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: going to do, like saying that I'm Portuguese, I have
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: my parents that are in Portugal, that the baby, and
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: moving the situation into Portugal because I'm Portuguese, none of
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: that has been told in court. We were told that
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: we're going to speak to the judge never spoke to us,
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: so nothing.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 3: That was planned actually was made.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: So they were actually deciding my life, but nothing that
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: was really important was being said in the meanwhile of
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: the court. When there was a break, I go to
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: the room with my barrister and Leon is with his
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: barrister and the lawyer, and my barrister says, you'll under
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: signing here, signing here against Leon, and if you sign
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: the judge my conceider, my consider to give the baby
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: to you.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 3: Am I what against Leon?
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: I know Leon is Yon never did anything wrong? What
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: the hell is this? I'm able to choose a good
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: father for my own son. This is really wrong. Why
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: my barrister is doing this.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 3: Instead of going to court and saying she's Portuguese.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 3: So I rush the room. I go to Leon's room,
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 3: that is with he's lawyer and he's barrister, and I said, Leon,
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 3: they want me to sign against you, and he is
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 3: meeting suddenly just stops. They jump out of the room very.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: Quick, and Leon says to me they were telling me.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: My lawyer was telling me that you just had sign
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: against me.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 3: Am I, oh my god, our own lawyers, barristers, they
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 3: were conspiring against us.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: And there's something else here. And if I may, I'll
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: bring this in that that it is very very common
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: that an early tactic by social services, when social services
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: are targeting a family or a couple for the child,
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: very early on, they will try and break the bonds
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: between the husband and the wife, or the or the partners.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: And so when you started to say that to me,
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: I knew exactly what was coming. So I'm going to
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: say to you. I'm saying to the audience that this
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: is an absolute standard tactic and what they're doing, why
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: they do it is because, of course, if you have
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: a couple that are working together, they stay strong, they
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: support each other. Mum and dad have got an inherent
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: strength in the relationship, and so if they can break
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: that relationship early, it's much easier to subsequently take the child.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: Sometimes couples will succumb to it, they give in and
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: they say okay, and maybe the mother is allowed to
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: keep the child for a while on her own, but invariably,
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: as time goes past, they will then go to get
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: the child off the mother, and of course she's more
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: vulnerable because then she's completely isolated and on her own.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: So you were describing things which I'm echoing back to you,
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: and I'm talking obviously to the audience to say that
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: what Yorlander is talking about here absolutely real and there
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: are hundreds, I believe thousands of couples where the same
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: technique has been used on them. But what a coincidence,
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: Lander that you should you should go into that room
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: and of course spoil the plot because Leon was being
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: told a rather different story.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: But they were dealing with a loyal couple, and my
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: son is a result of love. And obviously I didn't
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: do what the other mothers they usually they do. They is, oh, yes,
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: I'm going to get that chance, and then I'm going
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: to try that way. Obviously I knew, because if they
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: are saying that, I don't even know how to choose
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: a men for to be a father of my son,
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: I asked. Obviously I'm not a good mother either, and
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: that is not the circumstance. Like Leon is a good man.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: I know exactly who Lean is. He is a good
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: man and has not committed no crime, and we stick together.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: So basically, after that situation, they postpone to another court,
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: and they moved the They moved our son to another
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: visit center much.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 3: Further away, more than one bus driver away, more than
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 3: one hour away, on a bus, like really.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: Really far away, to make everything harder and harder. And
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: on the visit center was lots of babies, and you
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: have to be in that room fifteen minutes before then
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: the baby goes, and and you have to stay in
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: there so just to make sure that you're not going
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: after them.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 3: It's lots of locker rooms, you know, it's like a movie,
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 3: like you can see they are child.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: Trafficking, and again it is psychological torture. That's what the
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: mothers and fathers described to me. To go into a
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: very cold, very austere location in order to see your
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: own child, and then very often they're all restrictions. Some
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: of the mothers are told that they're not allowed to
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: say to their own child that they love them. So
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: you have a child taken away from you. When you
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: are allowed to see that child in a contact setter sorry,
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: contact center setting, you're not even allowed to cuddle the
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: child or say that you love them.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, you're not.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: My baby was a baby and I was being told
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: that I was not even allowed to cry. So the
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: situation happens, and we are we are told by a friend,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: actually Judge David winn Miller American. He says to her
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: that you need to make the case public because this
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: is child trafficking and the only way that we can
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: actually get your baby back is that if you make
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: the case public, and then they will go back and they.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 3: Give you the baby bag. But actually.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: I think they were very scared and they made us
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: a lesson to everyone, and actually what the judge has
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: written down it is It is important to stress, however,
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: that no court has made any findings on those local
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: authority allegations, because they even have made blood tests saying
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: that the baby has not been given no bleach. And
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: this judge from the High Court of London, he has
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: written down there is a very real danger that by
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: continuing with their current internet campaign they will only achieve
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: the very thing they profess to be trying to avoid
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: permanent separation from their son. So basically, we were punished
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 2: because we scream for help.
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: Publicly, you're punished for that screen for help. Were also
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: punished if you don't so in the contact center a
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: mother is told she's not allowed to cry, but if
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: the mother doesn't show any emotion, she's then criticized as
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: being cold with her own child. The key weapon used
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: by these authorities is psychological manipulation. And a question for you,
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: at the stage that the case is going through the
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: family courts, what is the baseline for the continued removal
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: of Is it the risk of future emotional harm or
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: have they moved on to a new accusation.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: In court, I have heard the judge asking the local
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: authority you have questions are related to the mental state
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: of the mather, and he did answer, we have seen
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: her CV. She has worked in ourly streets. We are
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: not going that way anymore.
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: Sorry say that to me. To me again, I didn't.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: I didn't quite understand what you said.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: So the judges asking the local authority if they still
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: are wondering.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 3: About my psychiatric state, and his answer is we have
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 3: seen here her CV. We are no longer on that path.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: Okay. So the inference was that because you've got a
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: professional CV, that actually you were of professional some professional
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: social standing, and therefore they didn't think that they could
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: be trying to make out that you had some sort
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: of psychiatric problem.
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, let me tell you, Brian Garrish that the guy
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: the priest, the highest priest of England, the one that
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: put the crown on the king in Charles, he was
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: my patient in our district. So you know, I'm very
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: proud of my professional path, and I have studied English
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: and I have Cambridge Cutricates from the university for my
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: English as I was dealing with private patients and I
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: want to be proud of my English. And now I'm
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: sometimes in Portgo I'm asked by the English if I'm
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: actually English because of my accent.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 3: So yes, I'm very proud of my CV.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, quite right, Okay, So how long does this court
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: process go on for?
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: They did say that the end line would be the
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: tenth of June twenty sixteen, but they have written down
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: that once the case was public, they had to rush out,
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: and they did.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 3: They shortened out the time.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: And the UK column. You made contact with us or
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: Leon made contact with us, and we reported on this case.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: I think it was in April twenty sixteen, but of
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: course at that stage you were living the case, and
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: so I perceived I could understand and I've of course
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: understood this with other cases, that it's so difficult for
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: the parents to know which direction to go into it.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: Because sometimes publicity can be helpful in that it alerts
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: the public, it does put the courts under pressure, but
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: alternatively it can actually cause them to become more vicious
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: in how they treat you. And so I did understand
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: that what we were initially able to speak to Leon
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: about the case, that it was still difficult for you
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: as a couple to understand quite what was the best
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: way to go and the other thing, which goes with
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: it is who to trust because you are very quickly
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: in a way world where you learn you can't trust
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of people. You can't trust social services, you
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: can't trust your own legal team, you can't trust the police,
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: and you can't trust other members of the public that
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: step forward and say they want to help. Most of
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: them do, but some of them don't. So you live
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: in a very difficult world to try and pin down
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: what's the best route to go. So I've interjected a
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: bit there. But so the pressure comes on the courts.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: What do they do then as they realize that this
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: case is becoming public.
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: So we did have a daily mail at our home,
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: taking pictures and taking our story. But after they were
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: told that they could not publish, they were not published.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: They were told that by the courts.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 3: Yes, because there was what's it called.
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: Restriction on it. Well, it might have been a d notice,
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: but normally it's it's a reporting restriction under the family
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: Court rule rules.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: And now I'm missing actually the word, but is the
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: I know it's missing the legal term, but is interjection anyway,
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: So it's basically saying you're not allowed to speak on
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: publicly on social media. No of that, otherwise you're going
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: to be arrested, We're going to take them your money
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: from the from your bank and.
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 3: All of injunction.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: So the Family Court took an injunction against you and Leon.
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: And the Daily Mail was not able to publish the
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: case because of that injunction.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: And the injunction was also indicating that they would take
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: money from your bank account. I've never heard that before.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 3: Yes, so.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: The su read she has not published the case on
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: the Daily Mail, and she gave us the information that
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: she knew that Southampton and it seems it's the top
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: charity of UK on kidnapping babies, has done it for
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: more than twenty years. And actually Southampton Hospital is called
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: a very special hospital has a special name. Is is
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: where legally is where money is dumped the babies. So
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: basically they could actually say that it's actually abandoned by
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: the mother, so it is all legal. It's a very
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: now I don't have that name now, but anyway I
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 2: want to share to your audience as well, is that
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: my court procedure had more than one court case and
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: that obviously that is a breach of evidence.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 3: I want to say as well that.
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: There was one court case that the paperwork had the
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: date of the eighth of April twenty sixteen, and the
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: paperwork was inviting us to go to the court on
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 2: the first of April.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, on the past.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: The date of the paperwork was the eighth, but accord
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 2: on the first.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 3: And that paperwork I will share with you. I don't
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 3: know if you can see it.
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: That was very dodgy, full of mistakes, was full of mistakes,
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: and even the logo is different. The logo is different
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: than lots of mistakes.
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 3: Very dodgy paperwork. The paperwork for me was the first
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 3: of April.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: For him was the one space one, not eleven, because
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: they don't write eleven like that is one space one.
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 2: And when we share that to the judge David win Miller,
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: he said that paperwork, they are going.
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 3: To imprison you.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: You are going to they are inviting you to go
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: to a place that is not a court, that is
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 2: not paperwork. That is all fraud on papers, because we
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: never have been provided paperwork signs by the.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 3: Courts. There is nothing me.
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: Did you just say that a judge warned you of that.
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 2: This is David Wyne Miller, it is Leon has studied
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: that and is grammar.
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: I cannot, I cannot, No, I understand, I understand what
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: you're talking about. Let me say this to you, is
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: that when I initially started to work with families and
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: I tried to help them as a McKenzie friend, I
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: also learned because as a McKenzie friend, I could go
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: into the family court hearing. So it was a two
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: way process. I was trying to help, but I was
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: also learning. I come from a professional background, albeit in
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: the military, but I was astonished when I started to
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: read court documents which were full of spelling mistakes, They
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: were full of mistakes in grammar, they were full of
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: just amazing errors. But after a while I came to
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: the conclusion that these were not errors at all. I
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: came to the conclusion that these were deliberate mistakes or
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: strange expressions within grammar, for example English grammar, and they
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: were done because essentially this was people communicating with each
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: other through official documents. That was my personal conclusion, And
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: I'm very interested in what your response to that is.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: You may agree or you may disagree.
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 2: So David Win Miller is made a judge, He's not
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: a judge or for lawyer by the law, not by the.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 3: Theater that exists in the court, in the system, he's made.
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: A judge himself because he studies quantum grammar and he
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: uses the correct sentence structure communication parst the syntax grammar,
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: and he uses that to rescue children. And he has
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: done it that in Australia. He has helped children to
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: be rescued from that system, the corrupt, the corrupt system.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: But because there is issue with UK and with the Queen,
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: and because he made because several armed to UK, he
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: was not possible to go to UK. So whiless, we
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 2: are actually in court in communication with him, and we
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: put a paperwork asking and I did ask, give me
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 2: the correct sentence structure, you know, is the I can
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: go through my paperwork and share it in a wild
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: wireless find the things. And basically one saying to the
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 2: judge and I did ask, and Leon did it as well.
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: And while as he say those words, then he has
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 2: been thrown out of the court.
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 3: And basically what we said is gave.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: Us the correct paperwork written in the correct grammar that
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 2: shows that we have committed any crime otherwise give us
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: our baby to us. And because we put this paperwork
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: in court, we have been thrown out of the court
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 2: and very weird. The judge came out, actually she didn't
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: came out to the court because I provided those paperwork
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: to the what's it called the woman.
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: In the court, the clerk the class.
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, once I gave that to the clerk and she
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: asked me, is this is a threat? I said no,
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: it's educational and that then very weird. The court didn't happen.
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 3: So it's very high profile. So they did that very quick.
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 3: And because this happened, because we are coming from London
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 3: doing this paperwork, we arrive in South London and there
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 3: is paperwork under the door, like as always, all the
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 3: paperwork from court was always under the door.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: There is nothing gone through the post office, nothing at all.
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 3: Nothing is signed.
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: And usually it usually arrives very late, maybe hours before
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: a court hearing, and it often arrives on a Friday.
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 3: Yes, so the paperwork was done on a Friday. This
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 3: is Sunday early. We round here saying they want us
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 3: in court tomorrow because it is a final court and
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 3: they want to send our baby for adoption.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 2: And we did go and we did ask for the
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: correct since sentence structure of parts for all of that
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: and we have in thrown out of the court and
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: we haven't seen our baby since Eve again, since the
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 2: fourth of March two thousand and six, seen the last
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: time that we saw him in a visit. And what
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: have they used? Yeah, future emotional alarm of risk and
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: all the paperwork, nothing is signed, is all? Let me,
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I should us share a picture of
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: the judge I have in my website. Okay, so I
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 2: believe this is justice. When they use the ropes is
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 2: always a bit different. She is just she's the one
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: that did all the paperwork.
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: Yes, and I've heard I've heard about her from other cases.
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 3: Since she's the nasty one and this is the one
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 3: that is involved. This is justice.
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 2: Had the one involved in the High Court that said
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: they haven't committed no crime, but because they made the
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: case public, they're going to be punished.
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, they are terrified of people.
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, I would like to share the image
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: of the live life claim that we made.
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 3: Is based on these So he is not We didn't
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 3: do a personal ticket for him. He is not the
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 3: property of the state. He is our property, you see.
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 3: So he's a live life playmant with the things that
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 3: we learned from the Judge David win Miller.
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 2: You see later on the social Worker she did a
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: person ticket for him without the father.
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: Name, court documentation, the manipulation of the documentation special languages codes.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: I absolutely believe this is happening. So I haven't well,
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think I've heard of of Sorry it was
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: it in your midder before, David, David.
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: But but I importantly has happened something very very important
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: because it has been proven to us what the Judge
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 2: David win Miller was saying, it was happening, and it
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: was about the different planes.
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 3: When I'm in the government.
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 2: And I made an appointment to speak with the Minister
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: of Foreign Affairs, they did say, put them in the plane.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 4: In the in the step room, in the room, step room,
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 4: step step room. Yeah, a room with a square on it.
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 3: So there is you.
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: Go inside the room and hsually is all in the
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 2: when one field one plan playing.
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, that room.
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 3: Had like a step and it was in a different level,
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 3: so different levels.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: And where were you what was the location?
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: An office inside the Portuguese government of the Foreign Affairs.
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: How interesting that to me sounds masonic.
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 2: So the things when when when a prime minister is
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: speaking to an audience. He has always been given a
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: square plane. The judge is in a different plane. When
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 2: the judge is on the court, they say all rise,
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 2: So all of these we were taken to a different
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 2: room to deal with that, and then what happened in
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: that room. It's very interesting because we're speaking about the
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 2: case in the one film, one level, and the guy
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: when he was speaking to us, he went to the
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: different level, and then we jumped to the same level
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: and he came out of the level. So the conversation
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 2: was always trying to not being on the same level.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: And of course the English expression is if you're telling
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: the truth, that you're on the level.
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: So what we were being told by David van Miller
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 2: and the paperwork, they'll always do and I keep doing.
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 2: He always has the same number, the procedure number. Yes,
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 2: put by the postal. We put a stamp. We autograph,
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: not signed because debt. We autograph, and on the back
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: of the paper it is always my autograph as well.
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: And when I met in Portugal the president of the Council,
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 2: the Council of Forgetta, the fourth where I'm from, I
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: went to see him because he was the president of
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: the Council because he was a judge with specialty in
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: women trafficking. And I tell you I did say to him,
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 2: now you have responsibility because I came to you. I
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 2: got the case to you, because you are a judge,
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: because you are the president of the Council, and I'm
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 2: from here and I'm asking help from you. And what
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: he did to the paperwork when you received the paper
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 2: that I gave to him, he put.
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 3: Leather on the table. But my autograph was still in there.
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but he turned it face down.
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 3: He turned face down.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, if is still on the top.
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 3: And is these small details, they are not details. It's
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 3: not a coincidence.
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: No, it's not a coincidence. And I have learned of
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: paperwork being turned over before from other families. We assumed
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: that when it was turned over, I can't see it.
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 1: It doesn't exist exactly exactly.
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 2: But we did all the paperwork, like David Milli, we
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 2: both we sent to the United Nations, we sent to
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: the Vatican. There was motopropros, motoppropriate. We did all that
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 2: of paperwork. You know, I very interesting.
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 3: I'm living in Portugal, not in the area of.
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: My address, but I did receive on the area where
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: I'm on a letter from a private detectives in Portugal,
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 2: from paperwork from the English court, so they let me
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: know we know where you.
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: Are, right, yeah, and again this is this is not unusual.
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: By many years ago, I dealt with a lady, a
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: French lady who had been married to an englishman. He
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: was clearly abusive with the children, two girls, two little girls,
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 1: and eventually, to her a surprise, in the court battle,
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: she was allowed to take the children back to France.
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: And she thought basically they were going to be safe
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: in France because she had the girls. And ultimately what
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 1: happened was one day she got a letter from the
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: from the local judge telling her to bring the girls
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: into his chamber, and she said, I knew what was
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: going to happen when she took the girls. She said,
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 1: if I didn't take the girls, the police would come.
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: So I at the moment she was in his chambers,
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: the girls would take an offer, and they were subsequently
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: flown back to England and given to the abusive family.
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 1: But there were occasions when she had effectively tried to
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: hide in parts of France, and this sort of thing happened.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 4: That you know.
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 1: It was as though she was being told, we know,
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: we know where you are.
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 2: After we made the case public, I did ask for
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: the help of the Portuguese consule, like straight away later
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 2: on in VID you either recorded and I made the public.
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 3: She didn't like it.
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: What actually she's saying is that do everything that the
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: social services they are saying they wanted to do the
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: psychological test reading you know, everything goes on borderline personality disorder.
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 2: And then I organized the protest in Portugal, and I
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 2: decided that I'll be stronger in Portugal with the media
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 2: if I was there. So I we booked.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 3: The flights last minute and we've flown to Portugal, not
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 3: knowing if we're going to be able to go out
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 3: because the police could block us on the airport. But
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 3: once in Portugal, then I have been told by a
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 3: journalist I know her name, and she's she writes to
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 3: the Portuguese a newspaper. He in Portugal, an English lady.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: I got her contact saying if you go back to England,
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 2: you're going to be arrested. And she did the first
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 2: article good on us, and the other two they were nasty.
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 2: And now a few moments ago I did. What you
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: view is saying that in twenty eighteen, Russia has arrested
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: four hundred people for writing things on social media and
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 2: England has arrested three three hundred.
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 1: One thing I know for sure is that children always
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: start looking for their parents. There is no child who
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 1: comes to know that their parents are not their real
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: parents that doesn't start looking for their real parents. And
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: of course youngsters are very good on social media, and
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 1: everything is possible on social media.
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 3: And I'm always and the energy.
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 2: You know, you know that if I think about you,
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 2: You're going to taxt me.
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 3: You know that that happens.
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 2: And I'm always thinking about him, and I create the environment.
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 2: There is aunties online thinking about him. You know, a
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 2: post thing I share for other children. If I'm doing
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 2: for other children, I know that those.
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 3: Families they think about as well. So you know, Brian,
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 3: the fact that the Porscugue government made that movie only
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 3: shows the importance that I have. The fact was the name.
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 2: More used in twenty sixteen and has never been common
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 2: importal never.
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 3: I know that the Porshugus they heard me