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What I've Learnt - Eric Bana · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

0:01
SPEAKER_01: Actor, comedian, philanthropist, and racing car driver, just some of the passions driven by the life force of Eric Banner.
0:09
SPEAKER_01: Whatever he does, he embraces with enthusiasm and dedication, a true powerhouse that has seen him recognize globally as a major talent to be reckoned with.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: After a decade of roles in Australian TV shows and films, Banner gained Hollywood's attention for his performance in the war film Blackhawk Down.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: And as the title character in 2003's help, he then played Hector in the war epic Troy and took a leading role in Steven Spielberg's historical thriller Munich.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: In 2009, he made a comeback as the villain Nero in the science fiction Star Trek, which was a critical and commercial success.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: Banner continued to work steadily in the 2000s, portraying Lieutenant Commander Eric S.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: Christensen in Lone Survivor.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: In 2018, Banner played the convincing title role in True Crime miniseries Dirty John, based on a true story of betrayal.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: An accomplished dramatic actor and comedian, Banner is the recipient of several Australian Film Institute Awards.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: In addition to acting, Banner is a motor racing enthusiast and has participated in various racing competitions in Australia.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: So, Eric, welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: Thrilled to have you here to discuss film, philanthropy, racing cars, and the importance of family.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Deb.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: Nice to be here.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: So let's have, let's start talking about there's so much to talk about with you, Eric, because you have such an extensive uh history.
1:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, but look, let's start with you've featured in such a gamut of extraordinary films, many filled with powerful, passionate, often traumatic characters.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Highlights including Romulus, My Father, Munich, Chopper, Troy, and the Hulk, all are very moving and historic reflections of men seeking healing or redemption and show an internal conflict, a wrestling.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: Why do these themes resonate for you?
2:03
SPEAKER_01: And how do you select the films you jump on board with?
2:08
SPEAKER_00: Oh, they I guess they they speak to me on some kind of primal level.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, I've never been to therapy, but I do like the idea of being paid to go to therapy.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think in many cases over the years, um a lot of the roles that I've done and the kind of the highs that you experience filming and then the the dumps that you experience after is a form of kind of therapy.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know why I've been attracted to so many dark characters.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: I maybe that's because as a viewer, they're the side of sort of films I'm attracted to as well.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: So I think my filmography is pretty representative of what I enjoy as a movie goer.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I I think my response to material is just based on personal taste and I guess ego and selfishness of trying to find the best possible characters that I can that are going to be a challenge, but also that's gonna um, you know, keep the work eclectic so you don't keep doing the same thing all the time, which is really important.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: So really you're talking about that they sort of I love the reference that that it's a type of therapy.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: So there's a catharsis for you in that you play these deep, somewhat troubled characters, and you're saying there's an element of catharsis because you have to ride, you have to delve deep and then come up again.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh, most definitely.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I did a character a few years ago in South Africa in a film called The Forgiven, in which I was I was playing a um a former military policeman who'd been convicted for for some atrocities during the apartheid period.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: And it was such a dark subject matter and such a dark character.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: And we filmed in a in a maximum security prison in Cape Town, and the whole experience was was overwhelming.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: And and the the the journey into the the research is is also part of that cathartic process.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: It's not just the performance side, it's you're forced to learn about subjects that you may know very little about.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: So I didn't go to university, and I think in many ways my my career has tried to sort of make up for that.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: And I've I've always been intrigued by roles that require research or that you learn something through.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's a huge upside.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the access that you get when you're in my job is ridiculous.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: The access you get to people and to to the right people is is so fantastic.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: And it's such a it's such a privilege, and it's it's something I've never taken for granted.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: It's one of the reasons why I don't do a lot of films and I enjoy the time in between and the research, because that's kind of the the um the in some ways the most rewarding part of the job.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: So really it's the university of life for you, yeah.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: Again, yeah, I I prefer the idea of someone paying me to go to university.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: So it's just Yeah, I totally hear you, especially with the way university fees are, you know, who who needs to um sit for five.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I love that notion.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: And and it's a shame to be honest, that a lot of that is not encouraged more for young people because there's sort of this trajectory, and I know you've got kids similar age to mine, and that notion that, you know, you must do your sort of four or five years of university before you get out into the world is is important on one level, but then you don't get to do something like what you're talking about, where you just throw yourself in to the world and learn from, as we talked about, the university of life.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, look, my my road in is not is not one that I would encourage because it's it's it it's it's um a very, very, very tiny chance of success on a road that's already hard enough.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: Um so so you know, coming down the comedy route and then sketch comedy and then shifting into drama is such an unusual path.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: But it was the only one that that was that I could see available to me, like growing up in Talamarine and not being surrounded by a lot of creative people.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: It's not as though there was an obvious path.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: It said, just go down this road, you know, here's the drama school, you know, this is the road tonight or a whopper.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: Like those that was like talking about going to NASA, you know, it just wasn't part of the vocabulary.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: So I kind of stumbled and found my way um through.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: But a lot of that was about just kind of um not feeling pressured to follow a pathway.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: That the only reason I didn't go to university, Deb, was there just was nothing there that interested me.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I wanted to become a mechanic and I wanted to leave school early, and my dad stopped me from doing that.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: Um but aside from that, there was nothing in the tertiary education world that kind of moved me.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: It's it's very interesting though, because in a in a in an irony, it's actually what freed you to make choices to go on the journey you did.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: So I find that whole notion quite interesting.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've got a little quote here from you.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, you said you wanted to be a mechanic.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: When 14, I wanted to quit school and go work on my car.
7:02
SPEAKER_01: And I notice you've got cars and bikes and things in the background there, obviously your passion.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: But my dad said, son, you shouldn't do that.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: You should stay in school until your education is finished.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: And when you're done, don't make your hobby your job.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: So did you make your hobby your job?
7:18
SPEAKER_01: No.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: You actually ended up still enjoying your cars, but yeah, yeah, my hobby's been really important to me for sure.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: But um, I mean, in in other, in another way, I guess my my real job, I almost looked at like a hobby.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: I I looked at as a bit of a fantasy.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, it never felt like toil.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: It never felt like um, I mean, sometimes it feels arduous, obviously, and there are challenges, but it's always felt like you're getting away with something.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's always felt like it's a special thing to do and you're really lucky to do it.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: It's never felt to me like oh drudgery and you know, oh, off to work I go.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I kind of feel like I cheated the system a little, a little bit.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: With a lot of hard work, though, a lot of hard work and focus to do what you're but I guess what I mean is I I I still today feel like when I go to work that it's it's not work.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: So it it does almost feel a little bit like a hobby as well.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's because the the reality is it's just not a bloody full-time job, Deb, right?
8:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: I spend many, many months sitting around.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and I guess I would probably feel more like a workerman if I was a sort of actor that was doing three or four movies a year and you were going from one thing to another without stopping, which I couldn't ever get my head around.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: But maybe I'd feel more that way if if if I was working in that way.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: I mean, considering that you you do actually, you know, uh you're not back to back with movies.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's extraordinary.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: You've worked with some megastars in Hollywood from Brad Pitt, Orlando Bloom, to greats like Peter O'Toole and Troy.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, that says something too about um the calibre of the work you're doing and that you choose to do, and that chooses you.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: What did you learn from those experiences and working with some of those extraordinary actors?
9:05
SPEAKER_00: My favorite thing is always to work with the actors of the older generation.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: And and I've had a few gifts of of working with some of my heroes, and obviously Peter O'Toole being one and Robert Duval was another.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: Robert Duval and I did a film which didn't turn out very well, and three and a half people saw it, but it was just such an amazing experience, not only to work with him on camera, but to just chew his ear for three months and and form a real bond and and hear some stories.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: And I just really, really love working with older actors and and what they have to offer and just seeing the different ways in which they work that they tend to be more focused, they tend to be less distracted by by by life.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, they seem to to me to be more in the moment on the set and more attuned to what's going on.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: And I guess that's a generational thing of you know, let being less inclined to be on social media or have a have a phone that they relate to or whatever.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, so there's been many experiences over the years with with older actors that I've really, really cherished.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: Not not to say anything disparaging about people from my age group or younger.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: I've I've loved, I've I've been blessed with all my co-stars, to be honest.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: But there is something special about working with older actors and and forming a bond with them.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: It's it's a real special thing.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: Now, I know this is that you know, you did this a while ago, but it's one of my favorites, your role in Time Traveler's Wife.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: It was so memorable, very moving.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, based on what you were just saying, I mean, it it's a very um um intimate role.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, what was it like playing that role with and working with someone like Rachel McAdams, who I also think is a fabulous, fabulous actor?
10:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, look, she made that so easy.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, she's a really wonderful person and very, very generous and a very gentle person.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and so that made that very, very easy.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: It was it was different for me because I hadn't really played, I mean, aside from the movie I mentioned before, which no one saw, Lucky You, with Drew Barrymore, which was kind of also kind of romantic, but nowhere near as romantic as a time travel's wife.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: I hadn't really delved into that, into that genre.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: So it was new territory for me, but I really love the character.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: And um Rachel and I, you know, just worked together really well, and it was it was effortless.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: Um the director uh, you know, created a uh an environment that was just very relaxed.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: So I found it quite easy, actually.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, I've always enjoyed separating myself from from my characters, and obviously that's you know more important when you're dealing with those sorts of themes.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: But it was it just felt easy, really.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: Um I love the book.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh I thought the script was really interesting and and quite sort of kooky in in many ways.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, but no, it was it was a lot of fun.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: But also it's interesting because a lot of your um capacity is for vulnerability and intimacy.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean, whether you're playing, you know, um a policeman or a a romantic uh role, you seem to be able to access something deep within.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: You seem quite brave in that way.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: Because for men, it's often not all men, but I can see that that's that tenderness is something that maybe you have access to when you need to, and maybe that helps you.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
12:31
SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's true or uh possibly?
12:34
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's definitely something I try and find in my characters because I think you know, quite often some of the writing, if you're not careful, can be somewhat two-dimensional and it's not even the writer's fault.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of things to focus on in terms of a narrative and and what they're trying to achieve.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: So sometimes the character development may not be as far forward as it could be if they had another six months to work on that.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: So I always feel like it's my job to humanize my character as as much as I possibly can.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: And if if that means accessing um things for that character that aren't necessarily present in in the writing or on the page, well I'll I'll I'll try and do that.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes a lot of that is not with with dialogue.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: You know, quite often a lot of that work is is goes into what's not on the page and what's not written, and what you can find with your co-star and what you can find with a collaborative director.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: And it could be a look, it could be a close-up where it's not meant to be a close-up, or it could be something you do in a wide shot that reads well, or whatever.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: So um it's definitely something I think a lot about, and I have time to think about it because you know we have time in film.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm always I I see that as that's that's a serious part of my job, I think, to really try and flesh that out.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: It's interesting because I you're often looking at some many of your films, you're often brooding, quietly powerful.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: It's your demeanor as much as your words that carve your characters is something I actually observed and you've just reflected that.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: Um you seem to have reasonably good self-control.
14:09
SPEAKER_01: You're clearly a perfectionist.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, is that one of your acting tools?
14:14
SPEAKER_01: Because really part of that ability to not speak or to not, it's just a look, as you say, or a presence.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: I noticed that in the dry, which we'll talk about more.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: But is that something that you have honed, or do you think it's something that you intrinsically know how to access?
14:32
SPEAKER_00: I think it's something that you have to have the confidence in the camera and the screen to pick it up.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm not a I'm not a massive fan of massive performances and massive characters because I think sometimes it feels showy.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: And I also think sometimes it really underestimates what comes through the lens and what comes through, particularly if people are watching something on the big screen.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: So I I've always kind of lent towards less is more, but part of that is because I I have confidence in the camera.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, I I I love the camera and I understand what lenses do.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: And if you're working with a really good director, it's it's it's part of what they do is react to what the actors are doing and try and try and capture those things.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: So I think part of it is again, it's part of my my taste in the kind of movies I like to watch.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously there are gregarious characters in my career, but in general, I do tend to lean towards less is more.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: It probably means that you're less noted for sort of flashy things, but that's okay.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: I I I I just yeah, I I guess part of it as I said before comes from I I I believe in the camera, you know, I believe in what it can see.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: I I don't I don't I trust it.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: Um I don't feel like I have to lay it on thick for you to understand what what I'm trying to get across.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: But that's interesting because that requires restraint, first of all, of sorts, but also you have to trust your director, as you say.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: So you've worked with everyone from Spielberg to I mean, you know, to Angle, like there is such a spectrum.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Who really have you learned a lot from?
16:12
SPEAKER_01: And what have you learned?
16:14
SPEAKER_01: Like Munich was incredible, like you know.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I uh how's this?
16:19
SPEAKER_00: I've learned that it doesn't always work, right?
16:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean there's a thing called editing, there's a thing called framing, there's a you know, so there are there are times when it it works better than others, and there are times when it may not work perfectly.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: I guess I've learned that there's only so much that I can tr control.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: And I've learned that the biggest lesson, without a doubt, uh wasn't really an epiphany because it should be really obvious to anybody, and that is that you can't rise above material.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: You can't rise above it very much.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: You maybe can here and there a little bit, but if it's not on the page, just don't convince yourself that you can turn it into something special and walk away until you find something better.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: Because it's quite often when films are under a bit of uh a time constraint in their development, there is this general notion that if you attach a certain level of talent in all departments, that it will be elevated.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: They love that word.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: This person will elevate it.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, there's only so much um elevation that's physically possible.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: And so if the script is not there, and I and that's why I have so much respect for writers, I have a lot of writer friends because I just I love them and I really respect that process.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: And I think they get a hard bargain in terms of being given too many notes with their spec scripts and you know, too much of a time constraint and so forth.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: If it's not on the page, it's just not there.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: And and you know, scripts should be developed to a point where they are ready to shoot and that it's really obvious that it's working.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: If you, if, if you try and figure all that stuff out on the day, or you just assume by attaching names to it that it's gonna fix itself, it just won't.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: That's the biggest lesson I think I've learned in my whole career.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: Um and and just the discipline to to say no to the stuff that I just know is not right.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: Even even if someone amazing is is at the helm or attached, I've just learned that there's there's only so many inches above the ground that anyone can lift something.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: But that means you're discerning as well as being humble, obviously, because you don't feel like, you know, I can step in here and I can save the day.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: You're very much, I know my limitations, I know what I can do, and I and there is a humility in what you're saying, which I really respect, but also a reverence for the writing process and also an ability to discern and say, that's not going to work for me.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: You had a pretty good strike rate in terms of really extraordinary films that you have got yourself involved with.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: I mean, one recently, which I absolutely thought was incredible and has done very well at the box office in Australia, bringing in$20 million recently, up till now, probably more, uh, is The Drive.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: Actually, interviewed Jane Harper, the author, coming back to her notion of writing.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: And she was wonderful, like absolutely wonderful.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: I I could have spoken to her for hours.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, and she talked about how thrilled she was to have you as her central character.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: It just went bam for her.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: She was so, when she heard that you were going to be playing that, that playing Erin, she was like, this is just the most exciting thing.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna work, it's gonna, he's gonna get it.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, it clearly spoke to many, that film, entertaining and distracting and comforting us all during the COVID crisis and beyond.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: Is that what a good actor and a good film should hope for?
19:46
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think the best thing that you can hope for is that you're a good match.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: And and the thing I really try and look for when I'm reading material is um I really expect my ego to kick in to a level where I feel a sense of entitlement's not the word, but a sense of ownership or protectiveness for the character.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I have to play this person.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, the stuff that I say no to is usually stuff that I read where I can imagine 30 other people playing them.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: Now I know in reality that's the case with every film.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: There's always 30 people that can play them.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: What's important is that I feel like I'm the person that should play.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: And I felt that when I read The Drive.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: I loved Jane's book.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: I thought it was so evocative.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: I love the thriller element, but I love the setting.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: I love the way that she uses a landscape as a character.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: I found it incredibly moving.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: And so then I just felt protective of Aaron.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: I felt like I could play him.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: I felt like I wanted to play him.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: I felt like there was some work that I could do with him.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: I I was thrilled, obviously, to know that Jane was happy with that choice.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: It meant a lot to me going into the role that that I had her blessing.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: And it means even more to know that she's happy with the finished product, obviously.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was really important.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, it was just, it just felt like a it felt like a good fit.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: And my dear friend Robert Connolly was directing, and I trusted him implicitly.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: And we both wanted to make the exact same film, which is really important.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: And we both wanted to honor the book.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like we wanted to treat Jane's book as a launching off point for a film.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: We we were fans of the book and we wanted to satisfy the readers, and we wanted to satisfy people who hadn't read the book, and we wanted to try and elevate it through cinema as much as we could.
21:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, so it just felt like a really good fit, and it was incredibly rewarding, and it was wonderful to make and to produce and to watch it go through the edit process.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: And we're really happy with the final product and obviously beside ourselves with the end result.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, you should be because it really has had an extraordinary, extraordinary result.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: But I think that's not a coincidence, as you've just outlined.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: It's it really was a great fit on many fronts.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: And as we know, Robert Connolly's a fabulous director.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: So you clearly also clearly gives you as the central character quite a lot of latitude to be who you need to be.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: Is that that's the key?
22:14
SPEAKER_01: It's like a good marriage, yeah?
22:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a sense of freedom there.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean, as constrained as Aaron is, every day that I went to work with with Rob, I I felt completely free.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: Like I felt like we could try anything.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: Had complete trust in him, complete trust in the editing process.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's a great, it's a great place to to be as an actor, to feel like you can you can try anything on the day.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: And if something's not working, you know, that you've got that dialogue between the two of you to go, this actually, this is not working.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: It's really good on the page, but for some reason it's just not working today.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Let's try this, let's try that, you know.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, we had an amazing cast that we assembled for the film, and which which made our task a lot easier.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: But essentially, yeah, you just you you're always hoping to have that environment.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: And and I the going back to you know, what have you learned?
23:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I also learned that that's really important to me.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: And I do bad work if I'm not in that environment.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: You know, my best work comes from a great working relationship with the director, and and my lesson ideal work comes if that relationship isn't as strong.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's something I've really strive for, and you know, trying to find people that I connect with and that um that I feel like we're both making this that wanting to make the same film and that there's this trust.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: And when that trust is there, you can just try anything.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: And you've talked about like in the past, like things like Troy, uh working on Troy or working on the Hulk, they were much more challenging.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: I know that was a while back, but very different experience, yeah, for you.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, Troy I had an absolute ball on.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: I'd say the Hulk was probably the most challenging for me, just because of the way that character was written.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: It was a very, very constrained.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, essentially you're kind of playing a character who's is is uber constrained so that the audience feels some sense of elation when you're finally no longer that character and you become the CGI version.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: So you're almost kind of like sacrificing anything that could be possibly interesting to make the CGI character.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: So that was different for me, and and um, you know, that was you know far more challenging than anything I've else I've done.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: Troy was physically challenging, but but so much fun.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: Um and I had a had a really great working relationship with everyone on on that film.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: So that they've all got their own challenges, but they just present in in different ways.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, it's just you you learn something from all of them, there's no doubt.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: Well, you're certainly now in um, and you you say actually, I think I've been fortunate, and right now I'm in an incredibly fortunate position, which I'm totally aware of.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: I think luck gets you onto the stage, but it has nothing to do with keeping you there.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, what does it take?
25:06
SPEAKER_01: And that shows like right now, you you get to choose a lot more because of your track record and your history, and clearly it's become paramount for you on a number of fronts to have control of that choice.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: What do you look for other than um the collaborative aspects?
25:26
SPEAKER_01: The story's got to resonate for you, yeah.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I was saying earlier, I mean, I'm I'm really looking for stuff that I that I want to see myself.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: If if if I have no interest, I mean, I've said no to plenty of projects that I that I knew were going to work.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: You know, that I knew it wasn't a case of, hey, me saying no is a is a thumbs down to this material.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, this is fantastic, this is gonna work great.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: It's just not right for me.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: And I'm I don't mind saying no to it, knowing that someone's gonna do really well with his role and the film's gonna be great.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm trying to find stuff that that appeals to me because it's a really big commitment and you can't you can't fake it, you know, you can't it's it's a bit of a crazy trick that we're trying to to pull off.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm asking you to to hand over money to sit at a cinema and believe that I'm someone else.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: And so I I can't expect you to do that if I don't believe it myself.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: And and so it's always a case of saying no until you find the thing that I can make that commitment, you know.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, because I do take it really seriously.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: I don't have any tattoos, but I've always felt like you know, every film you do is a tattoo, really.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: I don't need any tattoos, you know.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Um every every time you're in a film, that is, that is a tat that's going nowhere.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: There's no, in fact, you can't even you can't erase a film in the way you can erase a tattoo or a love heart or a butterfly, right?
26:55
SPEAKER_00: Um so it's it's a it's a big it's a big commitment.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, once what you say, it's indelible.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're linked to it forever, you know, good or bad, or successful or not successful, but you can always live with it if at the time, at the time of of marriage, when you walk down the altar with that character, you felt like it was the right thing to do.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, then it's okay.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't really matter what happens after that.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: But if if you go in knowing it's not ideal, then it's a lot harder to live with with all the other ramifications.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: On another note, I know how important family is to you.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, and obviously I've worked with your beautiful wife, Rebecca, but tell me what you've learned from her, from your kids about love and life's journey.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: And I note that you're you seem quite an empath.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: You you just from the way that you explore your characters, and um, there's you have to be able to access, as I mentioned earlier, that that um intimacy, that fragility.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I know that family is very important to you.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: Can you talk to me?
28:04
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you say I love being at home, being with friends and family.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm of European stock, brought up in Australia.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm a passionate guy, I just love life.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: But when I go on the plane to fly home, I'm literally capable of forgetting what I do for a job.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: That also comes about because I choose to take massive breaks between projects and because I choose to do this ridiculous thing of keeping home home.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: How hard is it to switch off when you do finish such, when you're coming off that big high?
28:32
SPEAKER_01: Home's clearly a sanctuary.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: How do you how do you land there?
28:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, it takes a little while.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: I I've learned that it's it's uh um uh inefficient to think that you can turn it off.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: And I I'd much, I'd much rather the the notion that it's like a a snake shedding its skin.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: And it's just the scales come off a little bit each day, and eventually eventually almost all of them are gone, but there's always a few left over with every character.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: There's a few scales left on the skin.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, but there's no point trying to peel it off after that first shower, like just let it go.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: And so I can be a little bit vague for for a few days.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, usually the first week, there's a bit of an adjustment period.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: Um But you know, I I like that feeling as well.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: I like I like that sort of gentle, that gentle come down and and you know, trying to step away and um trying to trying to, you know, cleanse yourself of of everything you've just done or been through.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: Um that's a yeah, comes back to that thing of that's a real privilege, you know, um to feel as though you there is something that you have to get out of your system.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it, you know, I I it's always felt the same for me.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: It's just you know, like just the engaging in mundane or everyday life is the best way to to wash it off.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: So um it's really it's it's been great for us that we've been able to keep Australia as as home and never never moved out of Melbourne.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: And um, it's just kind of worked for us, and it's it's definitely worked for me to the one of the most important things for me when I started was coming up with a system that enabled me to work forever.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: And I identified really early on that if I worked in the same way as some other people, that I'd probably would have stopped by the time I was about 40.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I really didn't want to do that.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: So I just I have always tried to create a rhythm that's more of a long-term um energy rather than a, you know, let's just burn out and be done.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: Because I don't I don't think I could sustain it, you know.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, home is great, you know, and being around family is great and they bring you back down to earth really quickly.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: And they're bloody hilarious.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: They make me laugh more than anyone else.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: So they're just a source of everything, really.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I like it.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: I like, I think you're sort of well, maybe onto this earlier than a lot of other people.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, everybody's now the zeitgeist is very much, hey, you know, pace yourself, life, homework, balance, all of that stuff.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: But it sounds like you had it sorted reasonably early.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, you said, I've always been someone that sets achievable short-term goals.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: I've never been someone that's had a five-year plan or a three-year plan.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: That just seems to lead to a lot of disappointment and doesn't give you the chance to be flexible.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: So I've just always been someone that's sort of reassessed where I'm at and set goals that are realistic.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: And luckily, I've had plenty of chances to recalibrate and adjust, and good fortune has come my way.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: So that really reflects what you were saying, which is you didn't get too bogged down with, I'm gonna do this in five years, I'm gonna do this, I'm just gonna go on the journey, but make space to grow and revive and recalibrate along the way.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think it because it comes from I just never felt like I was entitled to this journey.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: I never felt like, you know, it wasn't it, it I I just kind of made it up as I went.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: And I had to keep readjusting my goals upward because I was, I was um getting further ahead than I thought I would, you know, which felt great.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: And I just never, I just never wanted to be in a position where that felt like it was a disappointment.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, quite often people want to impose some kind of structure over you that, oh, shouldn't you be there by now and shouldn't you be doing this kind of film?
32:32
SPEAKER_00: But dude, I'm just lucky to have been on television.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: Are you serious?
32:36
SPEAKER_00: Like I when I when I got the job on full frontal, it was game over for me.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: I I was like, I was ready to just retire.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: I was like, this is the greatest thing ever.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay, now I'm here.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'll reset my goal.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: But I've always felt really um, really fortunate uh because that's the honest truth of how I uh kind of um felt, how do I put this?
33:01
SPEAKER_00: I I just never felt like I was entitled to anything more.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: It's not like I had a low sense of self.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: I just felt like it wasn't.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: Why would I set a five-year goal?
33:09
SPEAKER_00: That just sounds so obnoxious to think that you're gonna be in, well, you're gonna be a serious actor by the time you're 30.
33:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, go away.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, like whatever.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: You know, you're lucky to be working as a stand-up and getting getting paid to tour tour around the country in a Tarago van with a couple of other funny people and make people laugh and you know, go for a bike ride whenever you feel like it because you don't work during the day.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: Are you kidding me?
33:33
SPEAKER_00: I I've got enough bludger in me to make this life work for me.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, I always have.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: And um it's I just I just really refuse to try and um accept another calculation that I was meant to be disappointed by where I was at.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that there's a lot of men and a lot of women that could learn from that because it is you know that linear trajectory that is put upon all of all of us, and and especially like even our kids, you know.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: It's a I like that approach that you've star you've realized that life is broader.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: It's not just a linear trajectory.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, from stand-up comic, and you guys were hilarious, used to watch that all the time, through to very serious actor, who knew that it would take you there.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: But if you hadn't relinquished a little bit to the inverted commas five-year plan, then you're right, it wouldn't, maybe it wouldn't have taken you there.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, I can guarantee you, I can, Deb, I can absolutely guarantee you because I I can identify steps along the way.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: If I had to set out to do this, I I'm not here today.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: There's absolutely no way that if I when I started doing stand up, if I had laid out a 10-year plan and said this is where I'll be in 10 years, if I had to, if I had to try and if I tried to put that into action, I would have failed.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: There's absolutely no way that my career would have progressed the way it did.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, because I would not have been able, I would not have been just reacting to things along the way and constantly, I would have been working on a different, a different um mentality that that had a level of expectation, which would have meant that I would have made different decisions along the way that would have taken me off my path.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: I can guarantee you that.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: People who have long careers, go and look at what they did.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: Look at how many duds they had along the way, look at how many times they got to re-regroup and and have another stab at their career.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: It's the it's easy to feel like, oh, if I fail tomorrow, I'm done and that's it, you know, because the world is is gonna judge me and it's gonna post this about me, and um that's it.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: It just doesn't work that way.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: It feels like it works that way, right?
36:02
SPEAKER_00: Because of because of social media and the cycle, but it just doesn't, you know.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: So many amazing actors out there have done some really, you know, average product along the journey and bounced back and gone up and gone down and reinvented themselves.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: It's like they have to have the license to do that, you know.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not just one constant upward thing.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: And is that something that you impart to your own children as a father?
36:33
SPEAKER_01: Do you give them a sense that I suppose the world is their oyster?
36:37
SPEAKER_01: It's really that that fundamental notion, isn't it?
36:42
SPEAKER_01: Whatever your journey will be a bit.
36:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean the i I guess um I do I do uh try and uh impart that and uh use examples, but at the same time, if they're really driven, I think that's a great thing as well.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: But I just you just hope that they that they feel like it's it's okay to to trip, you know.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: I've had a few trips along the way and and it's um it's it's really really uh humbling and difficult to deal with at the time, but as long as you just keep moving forward, that's the you know, the the most important thing.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to ask you one other thing you that was really interesting to me.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: You know, you said that your father endured a lot of racism when he was growing up.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: It was just that period in Australia.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: My dad is an unbelievably positive person, but I do know that he was called a WOG and probably had a hard time at work and could speak very little inverted commas English, as you say.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: My father battled on.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: I was probably on the cusp.
37:42
SPEAKER_01: I remember at school there were the Aussies and then there were the WOGs.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: I was 50-50.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: WOG is such a terrible word, so I never really fit it into either camp clearly.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: Do you think it's become easier?
37:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, and do you think that there's an education that people understand the complexities around different cultures much more than when, let's say, your dad was growing up here?
38:05
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, because I no longer being in the position where I I feel like an outsider in that area, it's it's uh it culturally moves on, doesn't it?
38:14
SPEAKER_00: So it's different, different parts of society that would would feel that now.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: And I I can't pretend to know what the what that feels like, you know.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: So I can't imagine I don't know how different it different it is.
38:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there are some people that are that are experiencing it.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't doubt their their their experience.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: So I just obviously it's not something that that um is is is uh is real for me now because it's not something I experience.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: But it is interesting because you do relate sometimes, I think, that notion of the outsider, because many of your characters have elements of that and how that you know plays out and becomes uh funnily enough, I think it sometimes becomes a the fuel to be good at what you do.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: To say, I don't care if I'm an insider or an outsider, I'm gonna just do what I do and do it well and you'll see.
39:09
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I don't I don't know.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: I don't know where where it comes from or um not sure.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: Not sure.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, tell me a little bit about just finally, I know you're working with Robert Conley on a new project.
39:27
SPEAKER_01: Um can you talk about that yet?
39:30
SPEAKER_01: Or is that something that is under wraps or you mean the the film that he was doing over in WA?
39:37
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh yeah.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: So Rob has just completed directing an adaptation of a Tim Winton book called Blueback, which is a wonderful um kids' film, really, about the ocean and a young girl's uh relationship with the with a bay that she that she grew up in.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a beautiful story.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: Um and we have an amazing cast.
40:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm just a very small part, but just um one involved with with Rob again.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: So I went over and did a small part in that.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: Um but it's it's a beautiful story, and uh I think it will make a wonderful family film and has you know great messaging in it without it being you know over the top.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: It's just a just a beautiful, simple tale.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: Um that I think I think young young people will really really love, particularly young young women.
40:27
SPEAKER_00: Um there's some great great characters in there.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: And just finally, Eric, what would you say to young actors coming up up the ranks?
40:35
SPEAKER_01: What would you tell them?
40:39
SPEAKER_01: Um I know so much, I'm sure.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: Because I I know you, you know, you have spoken to um, you know, a lot of young people.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: You're quite a big mentor.
40:50
SPEAKER_01: Um uh speaking at 16th Street Actors Studio and places like that about you know what you've learned and and and how to move forward because it's an interesting time.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: I think it's I I I think it's just keep it simple.
41:04
SPEAKER_00: I think the most important thing is to identify with why it is you want to do it.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's so important.
41:14
SPEAKER_00: What what you want to be an actor, do you?
41:16
SPEAKER_00: What why?
41:17
SPEAKER_00: What what is it within you that that wants to do that?
41:22
SPEAKER_00: Is it because you just feel like you can?
41:23
SPEAKER_00: Is it because you think it looks fun?
41:26
SPEAKER_00: Is it because for you reasons you can't explain, you just feel as though you can play other people?
41:32
SPEAKER_00: Or when you watch a movie, do you feel like that's something I can do?
41:36
SPEAKER_00: Like what is it?
41:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, what's your thing?
41:38
SPEAKER_00: And try not to lose sight of that.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, you've got to find a way that that, as I was saying before, gives you a sense of not entitlement, but proprietary.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to feel a sense of ownership about wanting to do it, and then when you get the chance, about feeling as though you belong there, you know, not questioning, not questioning that, but really understand what it is that that is making you want to do it.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: Be be really honest about it.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: And and if those reasons are good and if if if that can lead you towards doing good work, great.
42:11
SPEAKER_00: But if it doesn't, if the if the reasons are not pure, if the reasons are not um gonna take you down that path, well then maybe it's not for you.
42:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, I think it's really important to be in tune with that.
42:25
SPEAKER_01: And also just two other things I wanted to touch on your charity work, you're very involved in a number of charities, you're big on giving back.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that's critical.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can't imagine somebody like yourself wouldn't want to do that.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: What is it that uh that moves you and why have you chosen?
42:43
SPEAKER_01: I know you're involved with quite a few.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: What would be a highlight for you?
42:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, look, it's mainly youth off the streets, which is Father Chris Riley's charity.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, I I just really love the work they do.
42:56
SPEAKER_00: I love the fact that they can literally turn people's lives around.
43:00
SPEAKER_00: They have an amazing success rate of finding people who have really struggled but have amazing potential and helping helping equip them in very practical ways, whether it, whether it be you know, physically with with computers and and and bus fares or whatever, you know, to help turn their lives around.
43:22
SPEAKER_00: And then they have this second level, which which which impresses me even more.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: They had this amazingly high rate of reincorporating those people back into the program to help the next people through and and how engaged they feel.
43:37
SPEAKER_00: And and so many of them go on to do incredible things and be end up becoming leaders in their own communities and so forth.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: It's it's so inspiring.
43:46
SPEAKER_00: And Father Chris Riley just has this energy and so much belief in all young people being good and having good in them and seeing the good in them.
43:56
SPEAKER_00: And I just think it's just a you know really wonderful positive.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: message and and just having seen over many many years um just how how practically fantastic they are is is you know it it it it inspires you to be to be involved and stay involved with them so so that's the organization that I that I do um align with with with the most and I just think Father Ryle is an incredible individual who's constantly inspired me and finally I ask all my guests this although I have one variation on for you um what are you reading at the moment is there anything that springs to mind or are you a bit overreading all the scripts at the moment I mean yeah I'm in I'm in a bit of a hell hole with scripts at the moment um uh so that's uh I I go through phases where I'm I don't really have the ability to to to get through an a novel there's always something on on the side of my bed that Rebecca's handed over um but at the moment there's a there's a there's a a pile of pile of scripts that I'm working my way through a lot of which unfortunately are not a great a great uh standard which is a whole other conversation um yeah so it's just it's like digging at the moment.
45:14
SPEAKER_01: Oh okay so and are you watching anything what are you watching like is there anything you recommend to our listeners or that you're enjoying oh this is going to be very boring I I really love the Netflix series Drive to survive which is a behind the scenes look at at Formula One.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: Perfect well I that leads it's in some ways more interesting than the actual racing at the moment right I've seen that series actually great because my husband loves it too so that leads me to that final question which is what's one of your favorite cars and what what are you racing anything soon or because that is a great I haven't been haven't been racing for a while um but yeah I I my go-to is still my old Falcon which I've had forever the the beast the old red coop that I've got that I've had since I was 16 um which brings me a lot of joy and and uh still enjoy working on that and driving it and tinkering away on bikes and getting away for a few days at a time when when possible that's that's my go-to pot of pot of joy really is is is being on two wheels and being out in nature so um yeah that's always been my my therapy really it's it's been very reliable over the years and um something that's really important.
46:31
SPEAKER_01: Well I'd like to thank you so much for your time Eric it's been an absolute pleasure to interview you to chat to you and hear about all the wonderful things you're you've done and are doing and I can't wait to see what's next.
46:43
SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for joining us Deb it was great to talk to you.
46:46
SPEAKER_01: Great to talk to you too bye Eric Okay.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: See ya thanks so much for listening the What I've learned podcast will now be coming to you weekly with new episodes released every Tuesday.
47:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show so check out my What I've learned Instagram for updates.
47:11
SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile stay tuned kind and curious Love dear