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Boxing Podcast: Has Boxing Died? · Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: OK, we're 10 minutes late.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's your good friend, Lukie.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm here with my good friend Tokers, who's kind of like the voice of wisdom and reason.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: He's a Tokers 5 on X, the Everything app.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: And if you probably like boxing,
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: you've ran into him because he's keeping you up to date on everything obscure
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: and knowledgeable.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Tokers, how are we living?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: I am good.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm good.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm pleased to be here.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: I always enjoy coming on your show.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, it should be a fun one.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm kind of poaching you from your own show.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: You guys, the Championship Boxing, the Championship Rounds podcast has kind of taken a hiatus.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: I enjoy that show.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that maybe the enthusiasm for the sport has dwindled at
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: the current moment because of the lack of scintillating matchups.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe if we catch fire, that podcast will be back.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: We've talked about it.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: I like how you have a pen in your hand like a true broadcaster.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: You got a pen in the hand to take some notes.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen your questions and I've got some notes down and it's just here.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, perfect.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of,
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: I like how you got notes down and then like,
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: I kind of changed up some things too in my head.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, that's in true lukie fashion.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: Don't worry, man.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: I could ruin some stuff.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: I want to talk about the dysfunction of the sport right now.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: And as two hardcore boxing nerds, which I firmly say I'm a hardcore boxing nerd.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Even when I don't really have incentive to nerd out over the sport,
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: I just love the sport and I nerd out.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: And right now we're in a really weird place where it feels as though we're getting less shows.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like the global economy is shrinking.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's not in a great place.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like there's economic reasons to go along with boxing.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: But in a time where DAZN basically got everything that they wanted,
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: all the major promoters that aren't Zufa,
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: then you have Zufa here,
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: then you have Turkey Alashik,
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: who's basically kind of funded boxing to certain,
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: we'll say major boxing to certain extents over the last year.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: It kind of sums up where we're at as a sport
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: when we get Anthony Joshua versus Tyson Fury as a press conference,
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: which I think to guys like you and me isn't really an exciting fight.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's an exciting fight to fans who have heard their names that want to see
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: the visual of those two in the ring.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: And they can remember those guys being really important over X amount of times.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I swear I'm going to let you talk in a second is...
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: The thing that stood out to me was there wasn't many quotes from Fury or Joshua.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: I was busy yesterday.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't watch it live, which I also feel like is a sentiment of a lot of hardcore boxing guys.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: But it was like the executives.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, what did Eddie Hearn say?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: What did Frank Warren say?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: What did Turkey Ella Chic say?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: And we're getting to a point where boxing is starting to feel like succession,
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: where people are now more invested in who has the collateral,
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: who has the capital in this fight.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that seems utterly boring to me.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's like we're in a business era,
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: literally, of stocks and bonds, as opposed to just watching great fights.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'll ask you, where are we at as a sport?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's my setup to this.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: But just start with where we're at as a sport.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there's two things I'll bring up.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: Where I'm at with the sport is I haven't seen a minute of that press conference
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: because I've got better things to do than watch Tyson Fury call someone
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: a sausage five times and not much else happen.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think he's in a bad place, man.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: There's,
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: like I said,
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: I said to someone a few days ago,
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: Devin Haney had one of the best wins of his career, one of the biggest wins.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: That was in November.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: We're now in October and there's not even a rumour about a fight announcement.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a story that's sort of similar with a lot of people.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: Bivol a few years ago, remember?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Bivol.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, where's Angelo Leo?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: Where's Shakur Stevenson?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's across almost all levels of the sport.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: There's nobody really fighting three times a year outside of, in a way, guys in Japan, really.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a weird spot.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's concerning.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's really concerning.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said, there's sort of global economic reasons for it.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: But it's also this sort of, we're at a time where the economy's in recession across the world.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: But we've had a period of time where somebody's been paying over the odds for FIATS.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: And now maybe doesn't really want to do that anymore or has to scale back a little bit.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: And it's sort of like, well,
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: I got paid this for this fight that's easier than the fight you're offering me
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: for 80% of the money.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: Why am I going to do that?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get into this.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: I want to interrupt because it's my show and I think I'm the smartest guy and all that.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: But is...
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think an inherent problem with boxing right now is guys got overpaid
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: to take fights that weren't of that value.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: So then how do you incentivize the fights we want to see?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: How do we get us?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: This is Iglesias versus Canelo versus and Billy,
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: because the amount of money that should be paid should be the highest reward
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: for anyone to get in there with him.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: But essentially, it won't be that because to get these fighters, people have overpaid.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: And now it's set a marketplace that basically fighters will be like,
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: I've already been paid a lot.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to fight this guy.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then my question to you is,
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: how does Iglesias possibly become a pound for pound relevant fight?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: Or how does Agat Caballel potentially reach his potential of a pound for pound level fighter?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: If essentially guys go, well, he's not a big enough star.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: I want to fight star guys.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then like you just have possibly the best guy in the division just chilling.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: And that's another thing as well.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_03: Sort of Extending your point a little bit,
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: they took the fights that weren't particularly great,
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: as in levels-wise, they weren't the best fights.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: And they didn't even do anything for their fanbases,
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: because they were thousands of miles away at a weird time on an undercard on
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: a pay-per-view.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like,
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: you haven't really improved your market value in real terms by taking those fights.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: And...
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: You've been paid loads, and that's good in the short term, but it leads to where we are.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like you say about Iglesias, who's going to fight him?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: Who's going to fight him?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: He's fighting in the Montreal Casino in front of
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have to give him a number, but he looks like the real deal, right?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like he's fighting these dangerous guys that you and me.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like Evgeny Shevodanko is a tough guy.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: Peter Petroff's a tough guy.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: Shishkin's a tough guy.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: He arguably beat William Skoll.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yet if any big name brings him up, they'll go, who is he?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's the key thing.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: What does he bring to the fight?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, when did we get to business hour of what do you bring to a fight?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: As opposed to, that guy looks tough, I want to prove I'm better.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not even
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: like he hasn't got anything
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: either.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: He's got a world title, which I'm sure we'll get into.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh god.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm here.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: Can you hear me?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I cut out for a second, sorry.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he's got a world title as well, Iglesias, and it's like, how much does that matter now?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: I thought we'd just see him, I don't know.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a really weird spot.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: I think part of how you sort of
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know, man.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: You've got to have fights available,
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: accessible,
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: and regularly to build these guys up because that's the only way
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: the fights are going to happen.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: And you've got to actually stop paying them what they're worth.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think another thing I want to talk about is you and me are big prospect heads.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: We like the development.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Where are the prospects that are coming up?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because it feels like we've fallen in love with these main event fighters,
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: but young guys don't get opportunities to stay active.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: This just sounds like I'm being very anti one entity here, which isn't particularly the case.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: It is in some cases, but I had this discussion a few years ago with people.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: If you take the regular Saturday night main events away, those undercards don't happen.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: So the prospects don't get the chance to try them.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: So...
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: There are so many guys that are good coming through.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like Emmanuel Trant, he was fighting on a BU boxing card the other week.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: Guys like, oh, this is going to annoy me.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: The name's gone up my head.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: Featherweight with Robert Garcia.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: Chop Chop Gonzalez.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: Chop Chop.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: Chop Chop Gonzalez, yes.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: Can I ask you?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: Exceptions, I haven't.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Does he remind you of Virgil Ortiz a little bit?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yes.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: He's brilliant.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think he's really, really good.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: He is a lot like Virgil.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think he's top, top fighter.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: But where's he?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know, he was fighting on a matchroom on the card recently, which is the zone.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: So is it really any different to what Tom Prank are going to give him now?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_03: But he was fighting on the DMV cards or DMV in California.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: The DMG cards.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: They're a regional California promotion.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if they've still...
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: They were really throwing a lot of shows to start this year and they just have kind
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: of slowed down.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: I've watched a few of them.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: But he was fighting on there with guys like Terry Washington as well.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think he's a good fighter.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he's like Three, four, five,
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: six years ago,
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_03: he would have been on ESPN cards with hundreds of thousands of viewers.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: Now he's on a regional card pay-per-view on a website that's probably going to
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: a thousand buys, if you're lucky.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, that's the story across a lot of the sport.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: And it's difficult for even us to sort of get
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: behind prospects we think are top-notch because A lot of them just aren't on TV
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: a lot or aren't on shows that,
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: if you want to dedicate time to watching boxing,
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: they're not really on those shows that you're going to watch.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's difficult, man.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's difficult.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'll say this.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: What also makes it hard is...
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like you used to, it was the activity of a prospect.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: It was the potential you saw in their rise and their ability to go.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: But I also think it was,
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: having these tentpole fights,
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: having fights that you were excited about,
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: even if it's like Jared Anderson versus Ryan Mirior or whatever his name was.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was excited for that level of a fight because some of the undercard bouts were good.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like this weekend we got Whitaker versus Wallace.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm talking myself into the undercard.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm watching Suleman.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm watching some of the fights.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm watching the Udin flyweight bout.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm talking myself in.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that there is an issue with not just the broadcast in front of hundreds
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: of thousands of people.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think there was something to having different telecasts that all felt boxing centric.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: So when there was like a PBC telecast with a PBC distribution,
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: a top rank that had its own world,
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: when it all feels very uniform,
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think I start to forget the individuality of the promoters.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then it kind of like, there's not as much excitement.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like a few years ago, I'd be like, oh, top rank card on.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's going to look this way.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: MVP card is going to look this way.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: And especially with these,
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: the top rank golden boy, And Matchroom cards all look very interchangeable to me.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it becomes hard for me to get as excited about a prospect because
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: as weird as it sounds, the production seems so similar.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: It flows into the prospects where I just view it as boxing as a whole.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's a very good way of sort of explaining it.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: There's no individuality to a lot of it now.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: There's sort of, it's just...
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: In the UK, you're going to get Adam Smith shouting.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: You're going to get Adelaide, who's a decent presenter.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not slagging these people off particularly, but it just all seems the same.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: It all seems exactly the same.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I think maybe a little bit as well.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think we're finally starting to see,
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: or we have been seeing the sort of,
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: Developmental years of the pandemic,
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: when all the gyms were shut up for, say,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: two years or 18 months,
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: we're finally starting to see that come through a little bit, maybe.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: Where the guys who are turning 23, 24 now,
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: maybe aren't as good.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe, I don't know.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe that's not true.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it is, but I think there could be something to do with that there possibly as well.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: I like this conspiracy theory.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: I want to push back and say,
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think that There's something to what you're saying,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: but I also think there's a flip side where some of the prospects move too fast
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: during the COVID.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like you had guys that were out of the gym,
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: but then you had Jared Anderson and Xander who probably moved a year and
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: a half too quickly because they kept fighting during the pandemic.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then they got to a place where they weren't ready for too early.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then maybe I'm trying to think of a fighter who maybe fits the COVID arc.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Where they're maybe a year and a half behind development because they were waiting
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: to go to a national tournament.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think that it's an interesting thought experiment.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: Ben Werger.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: He had to wait for the Olympics for a year.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: Fraser Clarke had to as well.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: Galalia Fire had to.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: We've seen it a lot with British guys.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: I guess...
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: He's John Davis maybe?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: He turned pro...
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, half-heartedly?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: I remember because he was flirting with a certain entity that were in Dubai, wasn't they?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, he sort of turned pro and then went to the Olympics.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: In the UK, we've had a lot of it, I think.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: Guys like your – even the McCormacks –
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: The McCormacks, there's reasons why they hadn't lived up to the hype.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: Who's the better one?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because Pat always looked the part of like the good one and he looked like a solid title holder.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: And like to me as an amateur, it was like this is a no doubt top 10 prospect.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: And now there's like I don't know.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm wondering if Luke is going to be the better pro.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: Now, obviously, he hasn't gotten to that certain level, but it's like the fact.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: And look, Kona Walker, likable guy, tough guy.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it's very concerning when like one of the best prospects of
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: an Olympic class gets beat up by a guy where you're not going to be confused
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: by his game plan.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like it wasn't like he got out thought.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: He just got out toughed and out physicaled.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think...
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: I think Pat's probably the better fighter, but again, Luke's had issues as well.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: He obviously went to the same Olympics and then he had issues getting a licence for
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: a few years and then he's had injuries.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: I know that both of them aren't particularly the most disciplined,
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: shall we say, with their activity outside the ring.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I think work is the best example for the UK because...
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: He was the guy, really.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: It was him and Pat McWormack were the guys,
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: and you're thinking Worker's going to really do stuff.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's never really
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: happened for Worker.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: I guess he's getting there now,
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_03: but he's nearly 30,
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: and I guess the memory of the Liam Cameron fight still is in the back of your head
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: when you think about him.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I want to talk to you about that because we're going to go a lot of different places.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: But with Whitaker, it feels like this fight on paper should be a knockout win.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: But the excitement around the fight is if a fight gets physical, is Whitaker mentally soft?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Is he Does he do these antics as a bully to mentally defeat his opponent
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: and use his physical attributes?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: And when fights get hard, is he going to just pack it in?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the optics people wonder.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think so.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think...
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think the first thing you sort of have to mention with Whittaker is
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: that he's maybe a little bit fragile physically.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think he's a really good talent-wise.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: Talent-wise, he's brilliant, but he's had so many injuries.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: Even for his amateur career, he had so many injuries.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: His body might be not really suited to high, high-level pro boxing.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's sort of a worry I think a lot of people have.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: And again,
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: like you say,
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: the first fight we've seen him in,
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: the only fight in the pros we've seen him in where sort of the pace was not his pace
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: that he was setting.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: It was the opponent set the pace and the opponent got rough.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_03: We all saw what happened.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so that,
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: he's been in with Cameron again, knocked him out early with a weird stoppage.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, it was...
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: It was what it was, early night.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: And then it's been early nights ever since against guys who,
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: you know, you'd back sort of Zach Shelley to do a similar job on.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: That sort of level of fighter would do a similar job on.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, it's really weird because everyone can sort of acknowledge he's really talented.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: But there is sort of a, if it gets past six, what happens?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: And if it gets rough, what happens?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: And if he takes a shot, what happens?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: And all this other stuff.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: There's no doubt in his talent, though.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: He's brilliant when, you know, he is in control.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I honestly don't know.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: I honestly have no idea where his career goes.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: Because it seems like a stop start.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: And he is a weird personality.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: I have never really been able to put my finger on it.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: I remember him from years back,
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: and he was always this weird guy who was sort of dancing around and stuff like that.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: But I can't really...
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's difficult to sort of put your finger on why.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think he's a British fighter inspired by American culture, kind of, is the way I look at him.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of the things I see with young...
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: Fighters who want to be braggadocious and be like, I'm my own CEO.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like he reminds me of like a American sports athlete.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, I'm my own brand.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to do this.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like Whitaker is bringing like a very American braggadocious personality to Britain.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I've always felt that he kind of is like the opposite of like the blue collar guy.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: Grassroots guy that I feel like British fight fans like love where it's like,
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: like Johnny Fisher, like the opposite.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, forgot to trade, but I'm a good guy.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, Oh, Johnny, Johnny's been out there with the guys, you know?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like Whitaker for some reason,
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: that same person goes, I don't like Ben Whitaker, you know, he's dancing.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like,
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: there's a huge talent difference, but I feel like he, he irritates people like that.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: My question to you is,
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: If he wins this fight,
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: which I think you and me think he does win,
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: he then becomes the mandatory for Dimitri Bivol,
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: who essentially does not really fight all that often.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: What does that landscape of being a mandatory to Bivol in this landscape,
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: especially with you being a breaking news reporter with the Callum Smith news,
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: which we may or may not get into, but it just sounds like a serious situation.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows what's going to happen with that fight?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: But like, I mean, to me,
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: he wins and it feels like you go into a mandatory and you should have clarity
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: and it feels like more questions than answers will occur.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: The answer to this is simple, but not one you're going to expect.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: He wins this fight and then he fights Willie Hutchinson or Joshua Rwatsi
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: who are going to fight for the WBC title.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's what happens.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: This is why you're on.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: You're just so much smarter than me.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: Break it down.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: He doesn't go anywhere near Bivol.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: The IBF mandatory's just been done anywhere.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: Benavidez is about to vacate or be stripped or,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: you know, tell the WBC he's going to be a cruiserweight.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: Hutchinson and Buatzi are fighting for the interim WBC,
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: which could be the vacant if it times, but if it's sort of the timings are right.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: But regardless, in six months' time, they'll be the champion, the winner of that fight.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: And...
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: They're betting this as an IVF eliminator,
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: but the WBC silver title is still on the line,
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: so he's still going to have his WBC ranking.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: So there you go.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: Reading between the lines, this title head talk.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: I like this.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I think he's going to fight,
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: and I think Hutchinson is going to do a proper job on Buatze this time.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think he's the underdog, and I'm going to pick him.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's the right time for Hutchinson to beat Buatze, and
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: he's going to fight Hutchinson.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to go the opposite way.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think Boatsy is going to beat Hutchinson again.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think Boatsy could be a weird fight for Whitaker.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the first really strange fight for Whitaker.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Although Hutchinson is a funny one to me where he's a lot better than people think.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like he's not a bad fighter.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like a lot of American fans go, oh, Willie Hutchinson, you know, journeyman.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, he's top seven guy in the division.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: He can fight in both stances.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: If you're not like the top of the division, he's a very, very hard fight.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that him against,
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: actually him and Hutchinson versus,
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: which I think you just said this,
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking through my brain,
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: but Hutchinson versus Whitaker is an interesting fight because of the physicality
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: of Hutchinson.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I think he's just a mean frigging guy.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like he'd go into that fight being like, I wonder if I can bully and mess with him.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I feel like there's an inherent meanness to Willie Hutchinson
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: that Whitaker just doesn't have.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: He almost, I feel like he's very playful with boxing.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: He likes to play and be like, look at how talented.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: He almost does this thing, I feel.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: Where he's like, I'm so much more talented than you.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: You fight at your speed because you want to watch what I'm doing.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like Hutchinson's going to have a big cup of FU for him.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, Hutchinson is technically one of the best fighters this country's got at the moment.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think he's not got the physicality to really push it at the top, top level.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: But again, as an amateur, sort of eight, seven, eight, nine years ago, he was just ridiculous.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: He went to the U4 Championships in one goal within Russia, and it was just like, wow.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: And that's, Shreddy Finkel signed him out that U4 World Championship.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: He signed up with David Hay when he was sort of flirting with becoming a promoter.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: And then, yeah, he had the Lennox Clark fight that was at the wrong way, way too early.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: Sort of it was a good thing for him because it sort of took the hype out of him
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: a little bit and he could just sort of build after that Lennox Clark fight.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: But he's a really, really good fighter, Woody Hutchinson.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I think it's a tough, tough fight for Whitaker.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: I just think if you get him on the right night,
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: Because Hutchinson's sort of in and out of the sport a bit as well.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: He's sort of, if he's on it and training properly, he's a problem for a lot of guys, I think.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a really good fight for him and the worker, especially in the UK.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: And the UK needs it.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: We need domestic world title fights.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: We need big fights in the UK that are actually fights between guys that are relevant
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: and not nearing 40 years of age, preferably.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, hopefully it can happen.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I got to ask you this question that I've been thinking about.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you talked about the COVID thing.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm starting to think that we're at,
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to use a big word, existential crisis for the world titles.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: In the sense that, like,
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're starting to philosophically question what a title is
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: and why they matter.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if I believe...
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like Dan Raphael reported yesterday that Denzel Bentley gave up his title.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like a lot of these fighters are giving up belts.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like the reason they're doing it is, well,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: obviously there might be like a big contract over with Zufa potentially
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: or something.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: But I think there's also this sentiment that with this generation, legacy is second.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's all about money.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Fighters have been exploited.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: We want money, money, money front-ended.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the sanctioning bodies have to evolve a little bit
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: because I feel like they're running into this thing where they used to kind
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: of be like, okay, you want to get to these big paydays, you got to win a belt.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: And now you've got guys,
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think a prime example is like Edgar Berlinga has made a lot of money
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: without winning a belt.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: But he's a viable commercial draw.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that they're running the risk of you might have a whole era of boxers
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: that don't really care if they win belts.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: They just want to get to a level of millionaire fights.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: How do you look at these sanctioning bodies currently?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think I think.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: Firstly, they brought it on themselves because of the nonsense they've been pulling for years.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: Secondly,
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think they'll always exist because there's legacy behind them.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: There's decades of history behind each sanctioning bullet.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: And ultimately, there's still a way to build your name.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: But I just feel it's all just money, man.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like, Bentley's a weird case because he's never been able to sell a ticket.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: He's never been able to draw big TV audiences.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: Even though he's a fun fighter, I have bought tickets to watch him.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: I've, you know, watched most of his career.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: But he's got to a stage where Zufa come in and offer him X amount of money.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_03: For an easier fight and a multi-fight deal.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_03: And he's a free agent and he's got to go to America to fight Johanny Hernandez.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: Is it that he doesn't care about the belt?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: But what I'm saying to you is, Toque Cruz,
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: This Bentley used to have to be in the position to fight up and comer
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: that people think is a top guy because if he doesn't do it,
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: he doesn't get the TV dates.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: He doesn't get the money.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: You used to just have to take a fight like this.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: Now it feels like a guy who gets a belt can parlay that into an option to make money
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: in the next year or two so they don't have to be strong armed into facing
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: an unfavorable matchup essentially.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I get that.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: I get that.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's true.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: But is that not just an entity entering the sport with outside funding that's going
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: to throw loads of money at anyone anywhere?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: Is that not that?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think you are right, though.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of guys just don't care about Vox.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's such a weird situation because it's like
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone's losing so much money, which is the craziest thing.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: If everyone's obsessed with money,
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: the fighters are obsessed with money and getting money, but everyone's losing it.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone involved in the sport who isn't a fighter,
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: who's putting on shows, is losing loads of money.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just not sustainable.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's the sort of place where we're all at, really.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, Yeah, he doesn't need a belt.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: He's got a belt.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: He's going to parlay it into this deal with Zufa.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: But if he loses a fight with Zufa, does he get cut?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: 90% of the guys that are losing on Zufa have been.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: He's not particularly a huge asset, really.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: He's not like a Conor Benn who can do loads of tickets and is a naturally big name
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: for whatever reason.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: He's not a Belanger who does tickets.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: He's not even a Johnny Fisher who does tickets.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: He's...
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: A solid fighter who's got a world title
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: in ways, you know, I think that are fortunate.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think people would agree it's fortunate he's got a world title.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: He's not in a particularly strong era at middleweight.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: To be fair, it does feel like the boxing gods shined on him.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: He should have beat Janabek.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think Janabek was doing the Kazakh thing of just doing enough in that fight,
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: to be honest.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Dancing around.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: I love those videos where they're doing tic-tac-toe and twister in the gym
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: and people are like, oh man, look at how unique it is.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you watch these amateur fights and I just say like,
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: These guys are not going to transition to the pros at all.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: They're like the new Cuban boxers where it's like they can win a bunch
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: of amateur tournaments and they have no idea what to do as a pro.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: With the Uzbeks,
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: we have a little joke about the Homo Arena style,
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: which is the arena in Tashkent,
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: and it's just a lot of foot feints and one jab around it.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's the paint dry style, right?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: Where they're trying to freeze you.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's like the way Albert Puello,
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: if he were to beat Dalton Smith, is the exact way that they'd do it.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Where it's like one, two, foot feint, turn, jab, jab, turn.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like you just make it into a game of tag instead of like a game
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: of consequential punches.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like a lot of guys that fight those fighters are like, nothing hurts.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: Why is this winning a fight?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: And they end up winning 100 to 90 because guys are like, this is boring.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's exactly what's going to happen with Puello against Smith as well,
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: to be honest.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: You think Puello's just going to outbox him that way?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: There's a good chance.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's going to be horrific to watch and Puello's going to win a wide decision.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to swerve on you.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to say it's majority or split.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's Britain, of course.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: We love the British Boxing Border Control.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: We do.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: And their scorecards.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: Chat, HDolo901, Lukie, we got no good fighters.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: The best aren't fighting each other.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Lukie Boxing is dead, bro.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Joshua got dropped by a bum in his last fight.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: He's been fighting YouTubers like Jake Paul and UFC fighters.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: Fury and Joshua should have happened years ago.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: This fight is weak.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: Boxing is dead.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: These guys are washed up.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: So not a glowing endorsement of the current state from the people jumping in the chat today.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's not...
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to ask you,
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: obviously,
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: my guy Trish Dixon,
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: Total Boxing, put out there that it appears DAZN might acquire the Ring magazine.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, right now, it's very much speculation.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: I trust Trish's reporting.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Trish is not just someone I worked with.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: He's a friend.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: He's one of the people that I really, really respect.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I know if he put it out there...
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: It has to have validity.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to speak on it in terms of somewhat ambiguity because I like to go off
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: of press releases.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think that it's basically assured.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: But what does that do for the sport?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think that first off, the ring is turned into some its own.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost turned into like a.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: A bizarro world sports media entity in the modern era that unlike we've ever seen in boxing.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: And now like if a network were to own it,
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: which I guess isn't much different than when Golden Boy owned it.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: Does that just further a divide between maybe like DAZN and ZUFA Boxing?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: Does it just create a rift?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think that the question I have now is do fighters now force really,
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: really difficult situations where they have to choose ZUFA Boxing
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: or choose DAZN platform?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: And if you lose, are you blacklisted from the other?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, basically I'm saying if this news is true,
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: which I assume it is,
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: it doesn't seem like the thing that happens in a healthy sport.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: Well, in a healthy sport,
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: no entity that's actively involved in putting it on owns the biggest media outlet,
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: firstly.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: But I think there's a few things to dissect here.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: One, does this mean that certain entities are running out of money and have
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_03: to sell things that are valuable to them?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, it's worth asking the question.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: Two,
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think this is a play from DAZN because they didn't want to let Zufa get hold of
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: the prestigious belt.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't want to let that happen.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: And three,
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: if we get into a situation where there are these UBOs,
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_03: would the Ring Magazine belt be the DAZN belt?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: Would you have everyone under the zone fighting for the ring belt and that's it?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_03: Would you?
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_03: Eventually?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: Would that be the sort of play they're going for?
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I first thought.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: Are they trying to make the ring magazine belt into their own UBO?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's what I'm kind of getting at too is like the fractured nature
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: of this is it feels like if this were to happen,
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: it feels like we used to talk about sides of the street,
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: but it was like old guys with F you,
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: F you and it was grudges,
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: but there was at least some like Like, okay, there's a sanctioning body in this.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: If it's literally network state run belts,
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: we run into a thing of there's literally no way to bridge the gap.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it feels like boxing is now getting more fragmented than ever,
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: where it's just like you choose a product you like.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: And the idea of seeing big fights are starting to slip away.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to get them for maybe a year or two later or more.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we get them into 2028.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: But this next generation has to step up, make themselves into...
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: As you said, Haney's inactive.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: We don't hear the rumors.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: We need to see Shakur back before the end of the year.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: He was in,
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'd say,
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: the driver's seat to be fighter of the year this year, along with Dalton Smith.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: And both of them have kind of dropped the ball on just walking into that thing.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think,
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: in a way,
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: he's going to kind of waltz his way To a fighter of the year nod with one win.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean,
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't,
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: I guess the long winded way of saying this in a boring way
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: to my fellow boxing nerd is who are the guys that you look at right now and say,
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: okay, 12, 13, actually more like 15 years ago, we had Canelo Alvarez.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: He looks really promising.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: I want to follow the rise of his journey.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: Is that Jerron Innes?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: Is that Virgil Ortiz?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: Is that Devin Haney?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Is that Shakur Stevenson?
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: Does it just look different to me because I'm older?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: Or is there not truly a guy right now?
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's my concern.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then if we get a divide between the two, does that just further the confusion?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's an interesting question.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think all these guys are a lot older.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: So if you talk about Canelo in the 2010-11-12, he was 20 years old.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe that's an Abdullah Mason side, but do you see his ceiling higher?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: Or how do you think his career is going to go?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it's a weird spot.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's not a lot coming through.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: You look to see where's the next megastar that's going to pick up from Canelo.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't think there really is one.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_03: Ryan Garcia maybe, but again, he's nearly 30.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: All these guys are nearing 30.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: They haven't had many consequential fights, which is the weirdest thing.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: If you're looking at all these guys are having...
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_03: All these guys we look at from the past,
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: they're having meaningful fights in their mid-20s at the very, very latest.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_03: And that's how they build up to when they're 32, 33, they're these megastars.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: But are these guys really?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't know.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: I want to add is I think Mason has the potential.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like he took a lot of fans in America
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: that were really big Errol Spence fans,
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: Wilder fans, like guys that had big fan bases.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: Feels like there's an organic undercurrent to Abdullah Mason and he just needs
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: the fights and activity and like people want to get behind him.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: But like my other fear is...
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: It feels as though boxing right now is like private equity is coming in.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: And they're trying to basically package boxing,
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: which has probably been happening for the last 12 years, to be honest.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: I just wasn't smart enough to see this maybe.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like trying to package boxing.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: To large shareholders and say,
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: we have boxing as a whole, you can buy the sport, invest, we make tons of money.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: And what it's doing is it's creating like a splintered corporate world that's kind
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: of losing the...
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: The thing I love,
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: which is weird,
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: funky regional telecasts,
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: local promoters who don't fully know what they're doing,
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: harebrained ideas,
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: like the novelty and quirk of boxing that you and me love,
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: like how we were talking about a TBA fighter is listed in someone's box rec.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: We love that.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it feels like right now it's it's turning into and it's not a one a one.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's every promotion feels like it's getting more corporate, more rigid.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: There's less access to the fighters.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: There's less availability.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: It just feels less, less, less until it's sold off to something.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess what I fear as someone that loves this sport is,
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: is the sport just going to get sold for money and then the person
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: that buys it has no love or passion for the sport and we're stuck with it
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: until they choose to To not go.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: In America, we had a team called the Los Angeles Clippers and they were just horrible.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: And until the owner sold, the team never got better.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like,
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: are we going to get stuck with a losing franchise for 10 years with a sport we love?
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's two really big points there.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think a lot of the people sort of buying and investing in the sport don't understand.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think one, you can't buy boxing.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: You can't because there are so many people that are willing to lose money in
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: the sport,
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: whether that be through money they had to get clean or sort of trying
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: to start something new,
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: or they just love the sport and want to burn their own money into it.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: There's so many people willing to do that, so that's one thing.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: And two,
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think,
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_03: especially with Zufa,
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: they don't understand that people generally are fans of boxers.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: They're not fans of boxing.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's a very, very different thing.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, we're fans of boxing.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: We will watch a lot of different fights.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: But generally,
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: people have their sort of six, seven,
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: eight guys that they're going to follow and they're going to pay to watch,
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: et cetera.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: And outside of that, do they turn up?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: Do they turn up every week and watch it on TV?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: Do they buy tickets?
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_03: Not really.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's the big thing.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: You can't package boxing because it's so individualized.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's so individualized and there aren't many hardcore boxing fans.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: We've been told that for 20, 30, 40 years.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's a big fight because all the casuals are interested.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_03: They're invested in those people, not the sport.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think you can.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sort of half optimistic about it though because you can't buy it.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: One, it's such a mess.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: Two, it's so hard to make money in it Three,
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: if you do make money, you're making two, three, four, five percent.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: You're not making loads.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: And three,
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_03: the fan base is so sort of hot and cold with whoever that you're going to have
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: to buy everyone that's got a fan base and you can't do that.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it's a weird spot.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think you might get promoters doing that and promoters having that for three
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: or four years and guys on the contract stuck in contracts they don't like.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_03: But after that, you know.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we're going to do Boxing Business Hour just so we don't run too long.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: So are you ready for this?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: This is called Buy or Sell.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like a stock segment.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: If you are a stockbroker boxing analysis tokers, do you buy or sell Bilal Fawaz?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: Sell.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: Why?
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_03: He's nearly forced it.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think he's good, by the way.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think he's good.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think he's good, too.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: To me, I can't decide if he's world level.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think he's a fun interview.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes he comes out looking kind of like a Lucha Libre guy.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: He has a crazy look.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: But I get what you're saying.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: He has probably, at most, two years of big fights.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, Kabayel.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: Kabayel.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_03: Buy with an intent to sell in the next 12 months.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'm probably I own like an island on Caballels.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: I really think that like Caballels basically Joe Frazier,
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: but people romanticize who Joe Frazier was.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: So they're like, no way this guy could be.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: He's like Joe Frazier without a left hook,
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: but it's like everything about his style is basically Joe Frazier to me.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that he's probably going to be the guy for
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: the next two years is just my gut feeling.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: If he is, I don't think he should.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think he beats Dubois.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: I think Dubois' jab would just eat him up, man.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm probably a Dubois fanboy a little bit.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: I like Dubois because of the jab.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you why,
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: just on a boring technical,
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: and I've done this for a video, is Dubois' greatest asset is when fights get crazy.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: It seems like he relies on his jab and he jabs under distress.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like most fighters get away from the jab.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: Fight gets crazy.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: Fight to get crazy to jab.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then the jab sets up that right hand.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like his jab under duress sets up his moneymaker.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: And he can really dictate fights.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I get what you're saying.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: I just think...
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: What Caballel does is like, he's not the girl in a bikini that everyone's looking at.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: He's the guy showing up with his local 22.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: He'll do some work and stuff.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: Hello.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think I might have
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_03: out a little bit there.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: You might have lost me for a second.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: Next one.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: Adam Azim.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_03: Very, very good fighter.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: Very good fighter.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: Who do you like better, him or Dalton Smith?
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_03: Azim.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_03: I've always liked Azim better.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_03: But I think with Azim,
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_03: he suffered from being put into conversations when he was 20 years old
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_03: that he didn't need to be in.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_03: Smith's five years older than him.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_03: They're at sort of different stages of their career.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_03: Azim's not worth his because he's five years younger.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: But I also feel like I've always felt like Azeem's the better fighter.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like people were like,
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: because Azeem has some of that flashy things and isn't a textbook boxer,
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: people are like, oh.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I've heard things about, oh, his chin or whatever.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: But to me,
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: I just feel like Azeem is a special talent,
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: whereas Dalton Smith is a really good solid world champion.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't see him as a special talent.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I understand that, yeah.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's not me saying I don't like Dalton Smith either.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think he's good, but... Yeah.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: Little do you know, we're going to make a clip out of that.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: There we go.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: Rohan Polanco.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, next one.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: Rohan Polanco.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: Is he even on the market anymore?
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_03: Does he even buy it?
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_03: I guess buy it because I think he's at an all-time low right now.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_03: Can it get much worse for Ryan Palenco right now?
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know because it felt like he had a lot of momentum right before
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: that ESPN deal was over and it feels like since ESPN and Top Rank,
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: he's just been out of sight,
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: out of mind and he's kind of on the cusp of being thrown out of the rankings just
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: from not being relevant.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, Lukie's gone.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, Rohan Belenka, very good fighter, but he is not where he needs to be.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, Lukie.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: I got thrown out of the rankings.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: How about Abraham Suleiman, who fights this weekend?
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: I was doing some film study.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: Where do we put him?
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think you buy it because he's going to get above where he is now,
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_03: but I don't think he has a ceiling above domestic level in the UK.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting,
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_02: because I can't really read him just yet,
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_02: because he has coordination, he has feints.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: The big thing is, does he have the power to keep that next level guy off, is my question.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think he does.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's one.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: Greatest Kraus.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: Shout out Chris Glover.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_03: You love Chris.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: You should put him on there.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_03: He's got a fight coming up as well.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: We got to do his exclusive.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to do our exclusive Chris Glover.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: We'll get Chris on.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we'll get him while he's training.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: The first ever boxing interview while he's training in the gym.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_03: Grab us.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_03: I have no idea how good he is.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_03: That chin higher, that squaring up, I have no idea what to make of him, honestly.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think he's either really good or really bad.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's my gut feeling.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: I can't tell you, but I just know he's not going to be a mid-level fighter.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: He's either going to be not at the world level or he's going to be exceptionally good.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I know enough to know it's either one or the other.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you take the risk and you buy it.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I say.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_03: You buy it.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: You take that risk.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think that I'm kind of curious because he reminds me of a basketball player
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: in America named the Greek Freak where I watched the highlights on him and I'm like,
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: there's no way this guy's dunking on these rims.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's probably shorter rims.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then all of a sudden he comes to America and it was like he was totally
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: a superstar talent that people slept on.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I also would prefer...
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: Someone that's interesting rather than a boring generic mid-level fighter.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'd rather have someone that kind of gets me nervous.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like I'm prone to jump on a Krause train.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, I'm a big, big nasty guy.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: I want big nasty versus Johnny Fisher.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: I want Big Nasty versus Deontay Wilder.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm more excited about that.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: Me and Frank went on my guy,
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_02: the unofficial scorecard,
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: and we're trying to get Blake the Beast McKernan,
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_02: former Badu Jack opponent, against Big Nasty.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: Don't you think that would be a pretty interesting fight?
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_02: Veteran, a lot of pro experience.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: He's back against Paul Gallon, isn't he?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, he's got to get... See, this is the thing about Big Nasty, right?
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about how boxing's broken.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: Here's my guy, Big Nasty.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: All he does is make the fights the fans want to see.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: He's going in with a guy who basically opened the doors for him.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, he's 45, but it's a high-risk fight.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: The guy's more skilled than him in theory.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: And he just...
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: There's no promotional A-side, B-side.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: He's on the second...
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: He's the B-side in the poster...
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: Fight got done quickly.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: He's got a really smart guy helping him, Mike Altamira.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Mike's involved.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really smart boxing brain.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, guys like Big Nasty bring me back to boxing where they just make the fights happen.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: There's no, I got to wait and politic.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: He just puts it in with Paul Gallen.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'll tell you this.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's a fight I'm going to be watching live.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_03: Paul Gallen, who once fought three opponents in one night.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_03: They saw the pay-per-view of Paul Gallen versus three men.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: He fought three people in one night back in the day.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: This is the boxing I want back.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: This is the boxing I want.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, next one.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: Joel Irarte.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_03: Why?
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: Any concerns about the weight issues at times?
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a big believer in
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_03: Prospects, it's sort of an issue in the sport.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_03: Prospects,
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_03: a lot of the time,
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_03: fight at weights they're never going to be able to fight for titles at when they're
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_03: a young prospect.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, Ryan Garcia did it at 130.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_03: He was never going to be able to do 130 at the top level.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_03: So why was he there in the first place?
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_03: He might not get the knockouts.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_03: He might not have the high cover ratio.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_03: But for his development, fighting guys that are that size is good.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I just think bump Iriati up a couple of weights.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_03: He's a good fighter.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_03: I like him.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_03: I liked him as an amateur.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_03: But then again, Golden Boy don't really do shows.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm saying Joel is bigger than Eric Priest.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, maybe.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_03: Probably, yeah.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, he's a good fighter.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_03: I like him.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: Now the opposite, my guy, Jamal Harvey, who's kind of taking your approach.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_02: He's competing at lightweight where everyone,
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of people from the outside looking in are going,
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: oh, should he be fighting at lightweight?
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: He should be smaller as an Olympian.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of like the decision.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_02: Daryl Davis, who I think is one of the best coaches in boxing, Jamal's coach, is like, nah.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: He's fighting at 135.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_02: This is the weight class.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that mindset is what you just laid out.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's where he's going to fight for a title.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: So why do we need to fight at these lower weights when we're not going to campaign
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: at the lower weights eventually?
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: Again, I like him.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just going to say bye to all these, aren't I?
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah,
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_03: good fighter.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_03: Very good fighter.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: I should have thrown in some wild cards.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'll throw in a couple wild cards off the top of my head.
• 54:10
  Yeah.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_03: If MVP promoting properly as well, he can be a big star, I think.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: He will be.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like, I think the thing is...
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: We've had essentially every U.S. Olympic cycle.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: We had Wilder, Spence, Shakur, Keyshawn, and now Jamal fits the mold of the next one.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: And everyone's wanting him in an era where boxing is changing so much
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: to just jump out and be the guy that's like a top 10 everybody mentions.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the other thing about Jamal just knowing him and his team He's more
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_02: of like a Moses Atama.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_02: He's more of like, I want to work hard.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_02: I want to train.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: He's not opposed to the media like Atama where I feel like Atama is kind of like,
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to do media.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: I want to train.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: But Jamal is very different than kind
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: of your traditional social media fighter we've seen
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: where like they use social media.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: Jamal's like, I'm just going to train.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that People are wanting him to be more of a personality,
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_02: and it's going to take the fights.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: But okay, I love the chat had my very next one that I was going to ask you.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_02: They said, do Omari Jones.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_02: Some people are cold on Jones.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: He was literally my next one that I had in my notes.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_03: Omari, the middleweight, yeah.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_02: Omari, the one that fights on Friday, the Olympian, the bronze medalist.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_03: So.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_02: And why is that?
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just not convinced.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think he's got the power punching.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think he's got a variety in his jab.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think...
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_03: He strikes me as one of these guys that's been in the amateurs that's found
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_03: the system and perfected that system and it's good for free rounds and it's
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_03: a good amateur system but then you go into the pros and you have to do a bit more
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_03: and guys work that out and it doesn't work particularly well.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_03: I...
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_03: I just don't think he's that good.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think he's one
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: of these Olympians that's going to get upset.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: So you're saying professional amateur?
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, professional amateur.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_03: Can't punch at all, I don't think either.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_02: See, I'm pretty high on him.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_02: I just think that he needs to be developed the right way.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think the expectation with his career,
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_02: starting with so many knockouts, people at a very, very high...
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: View of him and then him ramping up the competition against durable veterans
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_02: and having more decisions.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think the optics have been harsher than where his ability is.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think he reminds me I'm going to give you a real deep cut.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: He reminds me of Raiz Aleem a lot,
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: where he's like a guy who has like almost like a karate style.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: He's a timing based fighter.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I think he just needs to develop in.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_02: And what you'd see is someone Who dictates with a jab,
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_02: but he's most dangerous punching with people and catching them in between shots.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that the power is there,
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_02: but he's a fighter that needs the experience to really show his best capabilities.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think he's a guy who probably will fight for a belt in nine, 10 fights.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's an Olympian.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_03: I just, but maybe you match from trying Russian though.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_03: That's the, that's the thing that I'm sort of thinking about.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like, Because there is a lack of stars.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_03: Does he get rushed?
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see this Friday because he's actually taken on my buddy Alan Sanchez,
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_02: who I've covered for about 14 years.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_02: And sure,
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_02: Alan's an older fighter,
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_02: but it's like,
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'd say maybe three,
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_02: four years ago, he beat Saul Bustos at a show I was at, like a regional show.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_02: And the thing with Alan is...
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: He's a true professional and he's a tough physical guy.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a guy that's going to make you have to answer some of those questions.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to show a diverse skill set.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_02: In the chat, they want to know your opinion on Marco Coelho.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, he barely fights anymore.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_03: I think he's a good fighter.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think he would have beat Nick Ball if he got that fight, but he doesn't.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, the Olivo fight was concerning, but I think he's a good fighter.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think with the right fight,
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_03: he can win a world title at featherweight, but is he going to get that fight?
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_03: He's been WBA mandatory for what seems like about a decade.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_03: Zay Moses.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_03: Very good fighter.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_03: Very, very good fighter.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_03: Buy everything you can and put it in that.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_02: Miriam Soltanoff.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_03: Sell, doesn't fight.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, just
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_02: doesn't fight.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_03: Jalilov.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_03: Jalilov, the Olympian.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, God.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: Sell, sell, sell.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_02: Sell now, sell now.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_02: Sell, sell, sell.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_02: Sam Goodman.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's interesting.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think he's just had the best win he's ever going to get.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_03: But I think he's a good fighter, but I think he's peaked, maybe.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, next one.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, go for it.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think he goes into a Nakatani fight next and gets knocked out, to be honest.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_03: But I think he's a good fighter,
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_03: don't get me wrong,
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_03: but I think he's this name in Japan that they're just going to give to Nakatani
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_03: and he's going to steamroll him because Nakatani's an elite fighter.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: But Goodman's good.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_03: Goodman's a good quality fighter,
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_03: but Yeah, I don't see the longevity, especially with his carts as well.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_02: My guy, Troy Nash Jr.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: Sell.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_03: Why is that?
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know I'm buying big on that.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me why you're selling.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_03: I just think, is he...
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_03: Not even sell.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_03: I don't really know what to think of him.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think he's an elite prospect.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think he can be good, but I don't know at what level.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_03: But then again, do you sell someone there?
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm trying to think of... You're going too deep on this.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_03: You're going to really strategize yourself.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're like, where on the thing would I buy and sell?
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think he's a good fighter that won't reach world class or the top level, but he's not bad.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yuta Sakai.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_03: Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really high on him.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_03: Best prospect in Japan by far.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think he's the best prospect in boxing.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_03: He might be.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_03: He might be.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's, that's,
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_02: that was a hot take that a lot of people say I was on Lukie Island last year,
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_02: but I said Yuta Sakai was the number one prospect to me in all of boxing.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_03: I said Dai Akira and that's how he's really well.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, just not that kind of zone as well as well.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's those two.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was in between those two, but I, I,
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_02: my rank,
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_02: my system was to give a true prospect,
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_02: which I don't even think I can do it this year.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't know if there's enough guys is they couldn't be ranked in the top 10
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: of a sanctioning body.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because what traditionally used to happen,
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_02: I would see is Errol Spence the number one contender and people are like,
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_02: oh yeah, prospect of the year.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, well, how is a number one contender a prospect?
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_03: I've had this debate before.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_03: My sort of prospect of the year...
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody can agree what it means.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_03: So what's the point?
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_03: Is a 32-year-old unbeaten kid who's an Olympic gold medalist the same prospect as
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_03: a 19-year-old who's been boxing in Mexico for two years and is 29?
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_02: I set my criteria for it because I went on a rabbit hole talking
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_02: to most respected people that I know in boxing.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think you have to be under the age of 25, personally, with some exception.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think a fighter from South Africa who has limited shows could get the opportunity
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_02: to be a prospect if they're 32 and Because they should get exposure if they're
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_02: an interesting fighter.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_02: Some exceptions I'll make,
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: but I think traditional fighters, once you hit 25, you should be in the go zone.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_02: You should just take any fight.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd say under 25,
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_02: not ranked in a sanctioning body,
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_02: and kind of someone who's consistently on prelims or very early main card,
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'd say the only way...
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_02: A prospect headlines a card is a card like Omari Jones is doing
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_02: where it's like future stars or regional hometown attraction.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's my definition.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's fair.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's fair.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: Tara Mona Jr.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_03: So, so, so, so, so, so, so.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_03: Chin miles up in the air, practically zero defense.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I think he's just going to get ironed out as soon as he steps up.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: Richard Torres versus Terramona Jr. Good fight, bad fight.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_02: Good fight for Richard Torres.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's good fight for the fans.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's like one that has no chance of being a bad fight.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_03: It depends what your definition of a bad fighter is.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_03: Is it sort of an explosive knockout in the first three rounds or Richard Torres?
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think Torres would run him over.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_02: To me, Torres is the new Tommy Morrison.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a very good comparison.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_03: Very good comparison.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_02: So what did you not get from this podcast guest in today, Tokers?
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_02: Are there any final thoughts that you leave unfulfilled that you didn't get to speak on?
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_03: Just looking at the notes.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I've said everything up in my notes.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, really.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sort of at a point in boxing where it's like...
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think a lot of people are where it's just like you talk about what's interesting
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_03: and not much else,
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_03: and there's not much interest in them,
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_03: so it's sometimes hard to have the motivation to talk about it, but it's fun.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_02: I really enjoy talking with you.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it's my birthday coming up on Sunday, cheap plug for a national holiday in America.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I enjoy being able to have these conversations because I think
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_02: that you have some interesting insights and I feel like it's kind of a dark time
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_02: in boxing.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like we have to find our motivations to see
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_02: why we love the sport,
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_02: and conversations about what intrigues boxing nerds, I think is always interesting.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I appreciate that.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_03: I enjoy coming on as well.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's fun.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it's a weird spot.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_03: Every time for the past couple of times I've come on, it's like, it's weird.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's really weird.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_03: And it's sort of,
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_03: I guess,
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_03: when the media conversations are around contracts,
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_03: venues, and what time fights start, and I switch off from a lot of it, to be honest.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_03: But it's this sort of thing that I like.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_03: I like sort of delving into sort of the grassroots, I guess you could say.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_03: The foundations of the sport.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_02: The club shows.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_02: We're both prelim and club show guys.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_02: I've got my guys that send me the regional fights and you're one of them.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_02: I tell people I have a friend named James from Australia and he's one
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_02: of my boxing buddies and he I always joke with him.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_02: We joke, oh, that's that boring stuff.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's stupid.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like the main events.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_02: All of us go, ah, that stuff sucks.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_02: We're like, he watches these fights in the middle of nowhere.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, what do you think?
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_02: Could this guy get to 6-0, 8-0?
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_02: And to me,
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_02: that's more fun,
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_02: especially right now with boxing, because it feels like people don't fight.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it feels like...
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_02: I yearn for kind of that funky quirk in boxing where like you get the weirdness
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_02: where you get on a club show.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas at world class boxing, we're trying to be too much of a sport right now.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just a little,
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_02: like we're doing big shows, but then we have like Dave Allen in the main event.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like Dave Allen was built on this carny quirk.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_02: And we're trying to be like a very polished show.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like we let's be weird again, you know.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that's what draws a lot of people in to sort of where we are.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's just the chaos.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_03: The absolute chaos of the sport.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's fun.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_03: Sort of, you know.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_03: You can't make boxing...
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_03: In trying to make boxing a corporate sort of...
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, well where can people support you?
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_03: The YouTube channel, Championship Rounds Podcast, if we ever start off again.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said, we're taking a little bit of a hiatus.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_03: We've been sort of bouncing ideas off about what we're going to do.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm mainly on Twitter or X or whatever they're calling it these days.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's my app under my shoulder there.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me on, Lukie.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's been really fun.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_02: We'll catch up soon.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.