Latest / Deep Transformation / Wired for Self-Respect & Social Justice: Powerful Lessons from the Birth of So. Africa’s Black Consciousness Movement

Transcript

Wired for Self-Respect & Social Justice: Powerful Lessons from the Birth of So. Africa’s Black Consciousness Movement · Deep Transformation

• 0:00
  Welcome
• 0:00
  to
• 0:00
  this
• 0:00
  extraordinary
• 0:01
  dialogue
• 0:02
  with
• 0:02
  a
• 0:02
  truly
• 0:02
  amazing
• 0:03
  woman,
• 0:03
  Mampilla
• 0:04
  Ramphele,
• 0:05
  whose
• 0:05
  remarkable
• 0:06
  career
• 0:06
  extends
• 0:07
  from
• 0:07
  medical
• 0:07
  school,
• 0:08
  to
• 0:08
  South
• 0:08
  African
• 0:09
  activist,
• 0:09
  to
• 0:10
  managing
• 0:10
  director
• 0:10
  of
• 0:11
  the
• 0:11
  World
• 0:11
  bank
• 0:11
  and
• 0:12
  to
• 0:12
  president
• 0:12
  of
• 0:12
  Club
• 0:13
  of
• 0:13
  Rome.
• 0:13
  Mampila
• 0:14
  explores
• 0:15
  topics
• 0:15
  such
• 0:15
  as
• 0:16
  oppression,
• 0:16
  apartheid
• 0:17
  and
• 0:18
  the
• 0:18
  necessity
• 0:19
  of
• 0:19
  empowerment
• 0:20
  under
• 0:20
  the
• 0:20
  face
• 0:20
  of
• 0:21
  oppressive
• 0:21
  politics.
• 0:22
  Looks
• 0:22
  at
• 0:23
  how
• 0:23
  a
• 0:23
  tiny
• 0:23
  minority,
• 0:24
  10%
• 0:25
  in
• 0:25
  South
• 0:25
  Africa
• 0:26
  can
• 0:26
  control
• 0:26
  an
• 0:27
  entire
• 0:27
  nation
• 0:28
  and
• 0:28
  the
• 0:28
  importance
• 0:28
  of
• 0:29
  escaping
• 0:29
  not
• 0:29
  only
• 0:30
  political
• 0:30
  apartheid
• 0:31
  but
• 0:32
  mental
• 0:32
  apartheid
• 0:32
  in
• 0:33
  which
• 0:33
  we
• 0:33
  see
• 0:33
  ourselves
• 0:34
  as
• 0:34
  less
• 0:34
  than
• 0:34
  others.
• 0:35
  She
• 0:35
  talks
• 0:35
  about
• 0:36
  the
• 0:36
  tragedy
• 0:36
  of
• 0:37
  whites
• 0:37
  holding
• 0:38
  on
• 0:38
  desperately
• 0:38
  to
• 0:39
  their
• 0:39
  privilege
• 0:39
  in
• 0:39
  South
• 0:40
  Africa
• 0:40
  and
• 0:40
  compares
• 0:41
  it
• 0:41
  to
• 0:41
  the
• 0:41
  way
• 0:41
  in
• 0:42
  which
• 0:42
  many
• 0:42
  of
• 0:42
  us
• 0:42
  are
• 0:42
  now
• 0:43
  holding
• 0:43
  onto
• 0:43
  our
• 0:43
  privileges
• 0:44
  despite
• 0:44
  the
• 0:45
  threats
• 0:45
  to
• 0:45
  our
• 0:46
  burning
• 0:46
  planet
• 0:47
  and
• 0:47
  to
• 0:47
  our
• 0:47
  very
• 0:48
  civilization.
• 0:53
  Welcome
• 0:53
  to
• 0:54
  deep
• 0:54
  transformation.
• 0:55
  Self,
• 0:56
  society,
• 0:57
  spirit,
• 0:58
  life
• 0:58
  enhancing,
• 0:59
  paradigm
• 1:00
  rattling
• 1:01
  conversations
• 1:01
  with
• 1:02
  cutting
• 1:02
  edge
• 1:02
  thinkers,
• 1:03
  contemplatives
• 1:04
  and
• 1:05
  activists.
• 1:06
  With
• 1:06
  Dr.
• 1:06
  Roger
• 1:07
  Walsh
• 1:07
  and
• 1:08
  John
• 1:08
  Dupuy,
• 1:09
  join
• 1:10
  us
• 1:10
  in
• 1:10
  the
• 1:10
  evolutionary
• 1:11
  fast
• 1:11
  lane
• 1:12
  as
• 1:12
  we
• 1:12
  take
• 1:12
  a
• 1:13
  deep
• 1:13
  dive
• 1:13
  into
• 1:14
  transformational
• 1:15
  practice.
• 1:17
  Peak
• 1:18
  experience,
• 1:19
  profound
• 1:20
  understanding,
• 1:22
  powerful
• 1:22
  contribution.
• 1:27
  I'm
• 1:27
  Roger
• 1:27
  Walsh
• 1:27
  and
• 1:28
  our
• 1:28
  co
• 1:28
  host
• 1:28
  is
• 1:29
  John
• 1:29
  Dupuy,
• 1:29
  founder
• 1:30
  of
• 1:30
  Iawake
• 1:30
  Technologies.
• 1:32
  And
• 1:32
  our
• 1:32
  guest
• 1:32
  today
• 1:33
  is
• 1:33
  someone
• 1:33
  who
• 1:34
  has
• 1:34
  literally
• 1:35
  helped
• 1:35
  transform
• 1:36
  her
• 1:36
  country,
• 1:37
  been
• 1:37
  a
• 1:38
  leader
• 1:38
  in
• 1:38
  political
• 1:39
  movements,
• 1:40
  a
• 1:40
  physician,
• 1:41
  an
• 1:41
  activist,
• 1:42
  manager
• 1:43
  of
• 1:43
  the
• 1:43
  World
• 1:43
  bank
• 1:44
  and
• 1:44
  currently
• 1:45
  co
• 1:45
  president
• 1:46
  of
• 1:46
  the
• 1:46
  Club
• 1:46
  of
• 1:46
  Rome.
• 1:47
  This
• 1:47
  is
• 1:47
  Mampila
• 1:48
  Rampilla.
• 1:49
  Her
• 1:49
  life
• 1:50
  is
• 1:50
  just
• 1:51
  quite
• 1:51
  extraordinary
• 1:52
  and
• 1:52
  I
• 1:52
  want
• 1:52
  to
• 1:52
  spend
• 1:53
  just
• 1:53
  a
• 1:53
  little
• 1:53
  time
• 1:54
  just
• 1:54
  giving
• 1:54
  an
• 1:55
  overview.
• 1:56
  It's
• 1:56
  so
• 1:56
  multifaceted,
• 1:57
  so
• 1:57
  multidimensional
• 1:58
  and
• 1:59
  has
• 1:59
  made
• 1:59
  contributions
• 2:00
  and
• 2:00
  transformations
• 2:01
  in
• 2:01
  so
• 2:02
  many
• 2:02
  areas.
• 2:03
  She
• 2:03
  was
• 2:03
  trained
• 2:04
  as
• 2:04
  a
• 2:04
  physician
• 2:05
  in
• 2:05
  South
• 2:05
  Africa
• 2:06
  and
• 2:06
  eventually
• 2:07
  went
• 2:07
  on
• 2:07
  to
• 2:07
  get
• 2:08
  additional
• 2:08
  degrees
• 2:09
  in
• 2:09
  tropical
• 2:10
  medicine
• 2:10
  and
• 2:11
  public
• 2:12
  health
• 2:12
  as
• 2:12
  well
• 2:13
  as
• 2:13
  a
• 2:13
  PhD
• 2:13
  in
• 2:14
  social
• 2:14
  anthropology.
• 2:16
  But
• 2:16
  while
• 2:16
  a
• 2:17
  student
• 2:17
  became
• 2:19
  also
• 2:19
  a
• 2:19
  student
• 2:20
  activist
• 2:21
  working
• 2:21
  against
• 2:21
  apartheid
• 2:23
  and
• 2:24
  becoming
• 2:24
  deeply
• 2:25
  involved
• 2:25
  with
• 2:25
  political
• 2:26
  activism.
• 2:27
  Was
• 2:27
  the
• 2:27
  partner
• 2:28
  of
• 2:28
  Stephen
• 2:28
  Bikou
• 2:29
  who
• 2:30
  I
• 2:30
  first
• 2:30
  learned
• 2:31
  through
• 2:31
  that
• 2:31
  film
• 2:32
  Cry
• 2:33
  Freedom
• 2:34
  but
• 2:35
  because
• 2:35
  of
• 2:36
  her
• 2:36
  activism
• 2:36
  was
• 2:36
  banned
• 2:37
  in
• 2:37
  South
• 2:37
  Africa.
• 2:38
  That
• 2:39
  didn't
• 2:39
  seem
• 2:39
  to
• 2:39
  stop
• 2:40
  her
• 2:40
  at
• 2:40
  all
• 2:41
  and
• 2:41
  she
• 2:41
  continued
• 2:43
  in
• 2:43
  multiple
• 2:44
  roles.
• 2:44
  Eventually
• 2:46
  after
• 2:46
  apartheid
• 2:47
  was
• 2:47
  broken,
• 2:48
  became
• 2:48
  Vice
• 2:49
  Chancellor
• 2:49
  of
• 2:49
  the
• 2:50
  university
• 2:51
  and
• 2:51
  Cape
• 2:52
  Town
• 2:53
  and
• 2:53
  I
• 2:53
  had
• 2:53
  the
• 2:54
  privilege
• 2:54
  of
• 2:54
  meeting
• 2:54
  her
• 2:55
  in
• 2:55
  San
• 2:55
  Francisco
• 2:56
  where
• 2:56
  she
• 2:56
  is
• 2:56
  on
• 2:56
  the
• 2:56
  board
• 2:57
  of
• 2:57
  the
• 2:57
  Global
• 2:57
  Compassion
• 2:58
  Coalition.
• 3:00
  And
• 3:01
  the
• 3:01
  more
• 3:01
  I've
• 3:02
  learned,
• 3:02
  the
• 3:02
  more
• 3:03
  just
• 3:03
  delighted
• 3:04
  I've
• 3:04
  been
• 3:04
  to
• 3:05
  frankly
• 3:06
  to
• 3:06
  know
• 3:06
  you
• 3:06
  Matthew
• 3:08
  and
• 3:08
  to
• 3:08
  have
• 3:09
  the.
• 3:09
  Just
• 3:09
  to
• 3:10
  be
• 3:10
  able
• 3:10
  to
• 3:10
  think
• 3:10
  of
• 3:10
  having
• 3:11
  a
• 3:11
  really
• 3:11
  in
• 3:11
  depth
• 3:12
  dialogue
• 3:12
  with
• 3:12
  you
• 3:12
  and
• 3:13
  about
• 3:13
  your
• 3:13
  work
• 3:13
  and
• 3:14
  who
• 3:14
  you
• 3:14
  are
• 3:14
  and
• 3:14
  what
• 3:14
  you've
• 3:15
  done.
• 3:16
  We
• 3:16
  began
• 3:17
  just
• 3:17
  before
• 3:18
  we
• 3:18
  started
• 3:18
  recording
• 3:20
  saying
• 3:20
  a
• 3:20
  little
• 3:20
  bit
• 3:20
  about
• 3:20
  the
• 3:21
  podcast
• 3:21
  and
• 3:22
  you,
• 3:22
  you
• 3:22
  said
• 3:23
  well,
• 3:23
  seemed
• 3:23
  like
• 3:24
  a
• 3:24
  wonderful
• 3:24
  alignment
• 3:25
  because
• 3:25
  Your
• 3:25
  life
• 3:25
  had
• 3:25
  been
• 3:26
  about
• 3:26
  transformation.
• 3:27
  So
• 3:27
  maybe
• 3:28
  that'd
• 3:28
  be
• 3:28
  a
• 3:28
  great
• 3:29
  place
• 3:29
  to
• 3:29
  start.
• 3:29
  Maybe
• 3:30
  you
• 3:30
  could
• 3:30
  say,
• 3:31
  yeah,
• 3:32
  yeah,
• 3:32
  tell
• 3:32
  us
• 3:33
  what,
• 3:33
  what
• 3:33
  is
• 3:34
  the
• 3:34
  underlying
• 3:35
  theme
• 3:35
  of
• 3:35
  your
• 3:35
  life?
• 3:36
  Because
• 3:37
  there's
• 3:37
  so
• 3:37
  many
• 3:38
  facets,
• 3:38
  so
• 3:38
  many
• 3:39
  aspects,
• 3:39
  you've
• 3:39
  been
• 3:40
  active
• 3:40
  in
• 3:40
  so
• 3:40
  many
• 3:41
  ways.
• 3:42
  I've
• 3:42
  been
• 3:42
  very
• 3:43
  fortunate
• 3:43
  to
• 3:43
  be
• 3:44
  born
• 3:44
  into
• 3:44
  a
• 3:45
  family
• 3:45
  of
• 3:46
  educators.
• 3:48
  And
• 3:48
  so
• 3:48
  from
• 3:48
  early
• 3:49
  childhood
• 3:50
  I
• 3:51
  knew
• 3:51
  that
• 3:53
  my
• 3:53
  mind
• 3:54
  had
• 3:54
  the
• 3:55
  capacity
• 3:55
  to
• 3:56
  learn
• 3:56
  and
• 3:57
  continue
• 3:57
  to
• 3:57
  learn.
• 3:59
  But
• 3:59
  I
• 4:00
  was
• 4:00
  aware
• 4:00
  that
• 4:00
  there
• 4:01
  was
• 4:01
  something
• 4:01
  not
• 4:02
  right
• 4:02
  about
• 4:03
  my
• 4:03
  country.
• 4:03
  But
• 4:03
  I
• 4:04
  didn't
• 4:04
  know
• 4:04
  what
• 4:04
  it
• 4:04
  was
• 4:06
  because
• 4:06
  at
• 4:06
  that
• 4:07
  time,
• 4:08
  my
• 4:08
  parents,
• 4:09
  being
• 4:09
  teachers
• 4:10
  and
• 4:10
  therefore
• 4:10
  public
• 4:11
  servants,
• 4:12
  they
• 4:13
  shied
• 4:14
  away
• 4:14
  from
• 4:14
  talking
• 4:15
  any
• 4:16
  matter
• 4:16
  that
• 4:17
  is
• 4:17
  political.
• 4:19
  But
• 4:20
  children
• 4:21
  have
• 4:21
  got
• 4:21
  a
• 4:22
  capacity
• 4:22
  to
• 4:23
  know
• 4:23
  that
• 4:24
  things
• 4:24
  are
• 4:24
  not
• 4:24
  what
• 4:25
  they
• 4:25
  should
• 4:25
  be.
• 4:26
  And
• 4:27
  that
• 4:28
  question
• 4:28
  mark
• 4:29
  in
• 4:29
  my
• 4:29
  mind,
• 4:30
  particularly
• 4:31
  because
• 4:31
  my
• 4:32
  dad
• 4:32
  was
• 4:32
  the
• 4:33
  school
• 4:33
  principal,
• 4:34
  even
• 4:35
  though
• 4:35
  his
• 4:36
  highest
• 4:37
  academic
• 4:37
  standard
• 4:38
  was
• 4:38
  a
• 4:40
  primary
• 4:41
  school
• 4:42
  diploma,
• 4:43
  and
• 4:43
  then
• 4:44
  you
• 4:44
  had,
• 4:44
  at
• 4:45
  that
• 4:45
  time,
• 4:45
  you
• 4:46
  could
• 4:46
  then
• 4:46
  go
• 4:46
  to
• 4:47
  college
• 4:47
  to
• 4:47
  do
• 4:48
  what
• 4:48
  they
• 4:48
  called
• 4:49
  a
• 4:49
  native
• 4:50
  teacher's
• 4:51
  certificate.
• 4:53
  He
• 4:54
  became
• 4:55
  self
• 4:55
  educated.
• 4:56
  So
• 4:57
  I
• 4:57
  grew
• 4:57
  up
• 4:57
  in
• 4:57
  a
• 4:58
  home
• 4:58
  with
• 4:58
  books,
• 4:59
  encyclopedias,
• 5:02
  Shakespearean
• 5:03
  plays,
• 5:04
  and
• 5:04
  my
• 5:05
  dad,
• 5:06
  when
• 5:06
  he
• 5:06
  was
• 5:06
  home,
• 5:07
  was
• 5:07
  always
• 5:08
  lying
• 5:08
  on
• 5:09
  his
• 5:09
  bed
• 5:09
  and
• 5:09
  reading.
• 5:11
  So
• 5:11
  I
• 5:11
  grew
• 5:11
  up
• 5:12
  with
• 5:12
  this
• 5:13
  curiosity
• 5:14
  about
• 5:14
  what
• 5:15
  was
• 5:15
  in
• 5:15
  books.
• 5:16
  And
• 5:16
  I
• 5:16
  was
• 5:17
  a
• 5:17
  very
• 5:17
  tiny,
• 5:18
  fragile
• 5:18
  child.
• 5:19
  So
• 5:19
  can
• 5:20
  you
• 5:20
  imagine
• 5:20
  holding
• 5:21
  an
• 5:21
  encyclopedia
• 5:22
  at
• 5:22
  the
• 5:23
  age
• 5:23
  of
• 5:24
  9,
• 5:24
  10?
• 5:25
  It
• 5:25
  was
• 5:25
  impossible.
• 5:26
  So
• 5:26
  I
• 5:26
  would
• 5:26
  lie
• 5:27
  on
• 5:27
  my
• 5:27
  belly
• 5:27
  and
• 5:28
  try
• 5:28
  and
• 5:29
  see
• 5:29
  what
• 5:29
  it
• 5:29
  was
• 5:29
  and
• 5:30
  I
• 5:30
  couldn't
• 5:30
  figure
• 5:31
  out
• 5:31
  what
• 5:31
  it
• 5:31
  was.
• 5:32
  So
• 5:32
  I
• 5:32
  would
• 5:32
  have
• 5:33
  an
• 5:33
  Oxford
• 5:34
  or
• 5:34
  Webster
• 5:35
  dictionary
• 5:35
  that
• 5:36
  year
• 5:36
  to
• 5:36
  try
• 5:37
  and
• 5:37
  figure
• 5:37
  out
• 5:37
  what
• 5:37
  these
• 5:37
  words
• 5:38
  were.
• 5:39
  So
• 5:40
  having
• 5:40
  grown
• 5:40
  up
• 5:41
  in
• 5:41
  that
• 5:41
  home
• 5:42
  and
• 5:42
  then
• 5:43
  going
• 5:43
  to
• 5:43
  high
• 5:44
  school,
• 5:45
  and
• 5:45
  I
• 5:46
  was
• 5:46
  a
• 5:46
  top
• 5:47
  student
• 5:47
  all
• 5:48
  the
• 5:48
  way
• 5:49
  throughout
• 5:49
  my
• 5:49
  school
• 5:50
  years,
• 5:51
  but
• 5:51
  I
• 5:51
  was
• 5:51
  ignorant
• 5:52
  of
• 5:53
  what
• 5:53
  made
• 5:53
  my
• 5:54
  country
• 5:55
  so
• 5:56
  different,
• 5:56
  because
• 5:57
  I
• 5:57
  knew
• 5:58
  something
• 5:58
  was
• 5:58
  different,
• 5:58
  but
• 5:59
  I
• 5:59
  didn't
• 5:59
  know
• 5:59
  what
• 6:00
  until
• 6:00
  I
• 6:01
  went
• 6:01
  to
• 6:01
  medical
• 6:01
  school
• 6:02
  and
• 6:02
  met
• 6:02
  with
• 6:03
  other
• 6:03
  young
• 6:03
  people
• 6:04
  who
• 6:04
  were
• 6:05
  also
• 6:05
  first
• 6:05
  time
• 6:06
  entering
• 6:08
  universities
• 6:09
  from
• 6:09
  their
• 6:09
  families.
• 6:10
  And
• 6:11
  we
• 6:11
  spent
• 6:12
  months
• 6:14
  during
• 6:15
  1968
• 6:17
  trying
• 6:18
  to
• 6:18
  figure
• 6:18
  out
• 6:19
  how
• 6:19
  do
• 6:20
  you
• 6:20
  explain
• 6:22
  that
• 6:22
  a
• 6:23
  tiny
• 6:23
  minority
• 6:24
  population
• 6:25
  can
• 6:25
  hold
• 6:26
  a
• 6:26
  majority
• 6:28
  population.
• 6:29
  And
• 6:29
  we're
• 6:29
  not
• 6:29
  talking
• 6:30
  a
• 6:30
  small
• 6:30
  majority,
• 6:31
  I
• 6:31
  mean,
• 6:31
  we're
• 6:31
  talking
• 6:32
  about
• 6:32
  less
• 6:32
  than
• 6:33
  10%,
• 6:33
  holding
• 6:35
  more
• 6:35
  than
• 6:35
  90%
• 6:36
  of
• 6:36
  the
• 6:37
  population.
• 6:38
  And
• 6:38
  we
• 6:39
  couldn't
• 6:39
  figure
• 6:39
  out
• 6:40
  how
• 6:40
  is
• 6:40
  it
• 6:40
  possible?
• 6:41
  I
• 6:41
  mean,
• 6:42
  we
• 6:42
  had
• 6:42
  great
• 6:43
  respect
• 6:43
  for
• 6:43
  our
• 6:44
  parents.
• 6:44
  Why
• 6:44
  were
• 6:45
  they
• 6:45
  allowing
• 6:45
  this
• 6:45
  to
• 6:45
  happen?
• 6:47
  It
• 6:47
  was
• 6:47
  the
• 6:48
  day
• 6:48
  the
• 6:48
  penny
• 6:49
  dropped,
• 6:50
  that
• 6:51
  for
• 6:51
  as
• 6:51
  long
• 6:51
  as
• 6:52
  we
• 6:52
  called
• 6:53
  ourselves
• 6:54
  non
• 6:54
  Europeans,
• 6:56
  non
• 6:56
  whites,
• 6:57
  we
• 6:58
  actually
• 6:58
  are
• 6:58
  giving
• 7:00
  the
• 7:00
  oppressors
• 7:00
  the
• 7:01
  power.
• 7:03
  It
• 7:03
  was
• 7:04
  such
• 7:04
  a
• 7:05
  stark
• 7:06
  revolution,
• 7:07
  stimulated
• 7:07
  of
• 7:08
  course
• 7:08
  by
• 7:08
  what
• 7:08
  was
• 7:09
  going
• 7:09
  on
• 7:09
  in
• 7:10
  student
• 7:10
  Life.
• 7:10
  In
• 7:11
  the
• 7:11
  68,
• 7:11
  you
• 7:12
  remember,
• 7:12
  there
• 7:13
  was
• 7:13
  the
• 7:14
  anti
• 7:14
  Vietnam
• 7:15
  War
• 7:16
  demonstrations
• 7:17
  in
• 7:17
  the
• 7:17
  US
• 7:18
  and
• 7:18
  in
• 7:19
  Europe,
• 7:19
  the
• 7:19
  students
• 7:19
  were
• 7:20
  also
• 7:20
  standing
• 7:20
  up.
• 7:21
  And
• 7:21
  so
• 7:22
  for
• 7:22
  us
• 7:23
  it
• 7:23
  was
• 7:25
  very
• 7:26
  potent
• 7:28
  to
• 7:29
  come
• 7:29
  to
• 7:29
  this
• 7:29
  realization.
• 7:31
  And
• 7:31
  once
• 7:32
  we
• 7:32
  pronounced
• 7:33
  ourselves
• 7:34
  black
• 7:34
  and
• 7:35
  proud,
• 7:37
  we
• 7:37
  made
• 7:37
  a
• 7:37
  decision.
• 7:39
  It
• 7:39
  was
• 7:39
  a
• 7:39
  weekend.
• 7:40
  We
• 7:40
  said,
• 7:40
  on
• 7:41
  Monday
• 7:41
  we
• 7:41
  are
• 7:41
  going
• 7:42
  to
• 7:42
  see
• 7:42
  the
• 7:42
  school
• 7:43
  principal
• 7:43
  or
• 7:44
  the
• 7:44
  university
• 7:45
  principal
• 7:46
  or
• 7:46
  president
• 7:47
  in
• 7:47
  your
• 7:48
  language,
• 7:49
  and
• 7:49
  we
• 7:49
  are
• 7:49
  going
• 7:50
  to
• 7:50
  demand
• 7:51
  that
• 7:51
  the
• 7:52
  labeling
• 7:52
  of
• 7:53
  our
• 7:54
  segment
• 7:54
  of
• 7:54
  the
• 7:55
  campus
• 7:55
  at
• 7:56
  the
• 7:56
  University
• 7:56
  of
• 7:57
  Natal,
• 7:57
  which
• 7:58
  was
• 7:58
  called
• 7:58
  Natal
• 7:59
  University
• 8:00
  Non
• 8:01
  European
• 8:01
  section,
• 8:03
  that
• 8:03
  that
• 8:03
  has
• 8:04
  to
• 8:04
  change
• 8:04
  and
• 8:05
  change
• 8:06
  immediately
• 8:07
  to
• 8:07
  Natal
• 8:08
  University
• 8:09
  black
• 8:10
  section.
• 8:12
  We
• 8:12
  were
• 8:12
  shocked
• 8:13
  when
• 8:14
  the
• 8:14
  delegation
• 8:15
  of
• 8:15
  two
• 8:15
  people
• 8:15
  went
• 8:16
  to
• 8:16
  the
• 8:17
  principal's
• 8:18
  office,
• 8:18
  came
• 8:19
  back
• 8:19
  to
• 8:19
  say,
• 8:19
  you
• 8:19
  know
• 8:20
  what
• 8:20
  he
• 8:21
  just
• 8:21
  said?
• 8:21
  Oh,
• 8:22
  sure
• 8:22
  thing,
• 8:23
  no
• 8:23
  problem.
• 8:25
  They
• 8:25
  could
• 8:25
  have
• 8:25
  fallen
• 8:26
  off
• 8:26
  their
• 8:26
  chair,
• 8:27
  thought
• 8:28
  we
• 8:28
  were
• 8:28
  going
• 8:28
  to
• 8:28
  have
• 8:28
  a
• 8:28
  titanic
• 8:29
  struggle,
• 8:30
  no.
• 8:32
  And
• 8:33
  so
• 8:33
  by
• 8:33
  the
• 8:34
  end
• 8:34
  of
• 8:34
  the
• 8:34
  week,
• 8:35
  everything
• 8:35
  had
• 8:35
  been
• 8:35
  changed.
• 8:37
  How
• 8:37
  old
• 8:38
  were
• 8:38
  you
• 8:38
  at
• 8:38
  this
• 8:38
  point
• 8:39
  when
• 8:39
  this
• 8:39
  occurred?
• 8:40
  I
• 8:41
  was
• 8:41
  19.
• 8:43
  And
• 8:43
  so
• 8:43
  here
• 8:44
  we
• 8:44
  were,
• 8:44
  we
• 8:45
  were
• 8:45
  all
• 8:45
  between
• 8:46
  19
• 8:46
  and
• 8:47
  22
• 8:49
  at
• 8:49
  most.
• 8:50
  And
• 8:51
  so
• 8:52
  here
• 8:52
  we
• 8:53
  were
• 8:53
  seeing
• 8:54
  a
• 8:55
  demonstration
• 8:57
  that
• 8:59
  subjugation
• 9:01
  happens
• 9:02
  because
• 9:02
  the
• 9:02
  subjugated
• 9:04
  acquiesce
• 9:05
  to
• 9:05
  it.
• 9:07
  The
• 9:07
  day
• 9:08
  you
• 9:09
  name
• 9:10
  yourself
• 9:11
  and
• 9:11
  you
• 9:11
  refuse
• 9:12
  to
• 9:12
  be
• 9:12
  identified
• 9:14
  by
• 9:14
  the
• 9:15
  oppressor
• 9:16
  with
• 9:16
  a
• 9:17
  name
• 9:18
  that
• 9:19
  literally
• 9:19
  makes
• 9:20
  you
• 9:20
  a
• 9:20
  second
• 9:21
  class
• 9:22
  citizen
• 9:23
  in
• 9:23
  your
• 9:23
  own
• 9:23
  country.
• 9:24
  Imagine
• 9:25
  someone
• 9:25
  coming
• 9:26
  from
• 9:26
  Europe
• 9:26
  and
• 9:26
  telling
• 9:27
  Africans
• 9:28
  that
• 9:28
  you
• 9:28
  are
• 9:28
  non
• 9:29
  European,
• 9:29
  who
• 9:30
  said
• 9:30
  you
• 9:30
  wanted
• 9:30
  to
• 9:30
  be
• 9:30
  Europeans.
• 9:32
  But
• 9:33
  our
• 9:33
  parents
• 9:33
  and
• 9:34
  our
• 9:34
  grandparents
• 9:35
  had
• 9:35
  accepted
• 9:35
  this
• 9:36
  for
• 9:37
  two,
• 9:37
  three
• 9:38
  generations.
• 9:39
  And
• 9:40
  that
• 9:40
  magical
• 9:41
  weekend
• 9:42
  is
• 9:43
  etched
• 9:43
  in
• 9:43
  our
• 9:44
  memory
• 9:45
  because
• 9:46
  it
• 9:46
  gave
• 9:47
  us
• 9:48
  back
• 9:49
  the
• 9:49
  power
• 9:51
  as
• 9:52
  human
• 9:53
  beings
• 9:55
  to
• 9:55
  self
• 9:56
  identify
• 9:57
  and
• 9:57
  to
• 9:58
  draw
• 9:58
  strength
• 9:59
  from
• 10:00
  being
• 10:00
  connected
• 10:01
  with
• 10:01
  our
• 10:02
  rich
• 10:02
  heritage.
• 10:03
  It
• 10:03
  filled
• 10:04
  your
• 10:04
  life
• 10:04
  with
• 10:04
  purpose
• 10:05
  at
• 10:05
  that
• 10:05
  point,
• 10:05
  did
• 10:06
  it
• 10:06
  kind
• 10:06
  of
• 10:06
  open
• 10:06
  up
• 10:07
  a
• 10:07
  new
• 10:08
  flow
• 10:09
  of
• 10:09
  meaning
• 10:10
  and
• 10:10
  purpose
• 10:10
  and
• 10:10
  direction
• 10:11
  and
• 10:12
  this
• 10:12
  is
• 10:12
  what
• 10:12
  I'm
• 10:13
  here
• 10:13
  to
• 10:13
  do?
• 10:15
  Well,
• 10:15
  the
• 10:16
  purpose
• 10:16
  came
• 10:17
  later.
• 10:17
  It
• 10:17
  was
• 10:18
  first
• 10:18
  the
• 10:19
  sense
• 10:19
  of
• 10:19
  power.
• 10:20
  We
• 10:20
  can
• 10:21
  change
• 10:21
  things,
• 10:22
  right?
• 10:23
  And
• 10:23
  then,
• 10:24
  of
• 10:25
  course,
• 10:26
  the
• 10:26
  purpose
• 10:27
  of
• 10:27
  change
• 10:28
  was
• 10:29
  to
• 10:30
  make
• 10:30
  for
• 10:31
  a
• 10:31
  world
• 10:32
  where
• 10:33
  no
• 10:33
  one
• 10:34
  would
• 10:34
  be
• 10:35
  identified
• 10:36
  as
• 10:36
  a
• 10:36
  non
• 10:37
  something,
• 10:38
  which
• 10:39
  meant
• 10:39
  that
• 10:40
  was
• 10:40
  the
• 10:40
  first
• 10:41
  step
• 10:42
  in
• 10:42
  the
• 10:43
  fundamental
• 10:43
  transformation
• 10:45
  of
• 10:45
  relationships
• 10:46
  of
• 10:47
  people,
• 10:47
  the
• 10:48
  people
• 10:48
  of
• 10:49
  South
• 10:49
  Africa.
• 10:50
  And
• 10:51
  in
• 10:51
  fact,
• 10:52
  this
• 10:52
  is
• 10:53
  the
• 10:53
  real
• 10:54
  beauty
• 10:54
  of
• 10:54
  the
• 10:54
  journey
• 10:55
  we
• 10:55
  traveled.
• 10:56
  As
• 10:56
  soon
• 10:57
  as
• 10:57
  we
• 10:57
  had
• 10:57
  done
• 10:57
  that,
• 10:58
  we
• 10:58
  realized
• 10:58
  that
• 10:59
  we
• 11:00
  also
• 11:01
  are
• 11:01
  liberating
• 11:02
  white
• 11:03
  people
• 11:04
  from
• 11:04
  this
• 11:07
  superiority
• 11:08
  complex,
• 11:09
  which
• 11:09
  is
• 11:09
  a
• 11:09
  burden.
• 11:11
  To
• 11:12
  the
• 11:12
  extent
• 11:12
  that
• 11:13
  you
• 11:13
  treat
• 11:13
  someone
• 11:14
  as
• 11:14
  inferior,
• 11:15
  you
• 11:15
  have
• 11:16
  to
• 11:16
  prop
• 11:16
  up
• 11:17
  this
• 11:18
  artificial
• 11:19
  superiority,
• 11:20
  which
• 11:20
  is
• 11:21
  also
• 11:21
  a
• 11:21
  burden.
• 11:24
  There
• 11:24
  is
• 11:24
  a
• 11:25
  sense
• 11:25
  in
• 11:26
  which
• 11:26
  the
• 11:26
  transformative
• 11:27
  process
• 11:28
  we
• 11:28
  went
• 11:28
  through
• 11:29
  didn't
• 11:29
  just
• 11:30
  liberate
• 11:30
  us
• 11:31
  and
• 11:31
  our
• 11:31
  power
• 11:32
  to
• 11:32
  shape
• 11:32
  the
• 11:33
  future.
• 11:33
  It
• 11:34
  Liberated
• 11:36
  those
• 11:37
  white
• 11:37
  people
• 11:38
  who
• 11:38
  were
• 11:38
  ready
• 11:40
  to
• 11:40
  be
• 11:40
  liberated.
• 11:42
  And
• 11:43
  there
• 11:43
  were
• 11:43
  not
• 11:43
  many,
• 11:44
  because
• 11:45
  liberation
• 11:46
  came
• 11:46
  with
• 11:47
  consequences.
• 11:48
  If
• 11:48
  you
• 11:49
  are
• 11:49
  no
• 11:49
  longer
• 11:49
  having
• 11:50
  someone
• 11:50
  who's
• 11:51
  your
• 11:51
  doormat,
• 11:52
  then
• 11:53
  you
• 11:53
  are
• 11:53
  going
• 11:53
  to
• 11:54
  have
• 11:54
  to
• 11:54
  be
• 11:55
  ordinary
• 11:56
  like
• 11:57
  everybody
• 11:57
  else.
• 11:59
  And
• 11:59
  you
• 11:59
  can
• 12:00
  imagine
• 12:01
  for
• 12:02
  this
• 12:02
  apartheid
• 12:03
  system,
• 12:05
  it
• 12:05
  didn't
• 12:05
  dawn
• 12:06
  on
• 12:06
  them
• 12:07
  that
• 12:08
  what
• 12:08
  the
• 12:08
  principal
• 12:09
  had
• 12:09
  just
• 12:09
  done
• 12:11
  was
• 12:11
  the
• 12:11
  beginning
• 12:11
  of
• 12:12
  the
• 12:12
  end,
• 12:12
  because,
• 12:14
  I
• 12:14
  mean,
• 12:15
  erroneously,
• 12:16
  they
• 12:16
  thought
• 12:17
  we
• 12:17
  had
• 12:17
  bought
• 12:18
  into
• 12:18
  the
• 12:18
  apartheid
• 12:19
  narrative
• 12:20
  of
• 12:21
  black
• 12:21
  people
• 12:21
  must
• 12:21
  be
• 12:22
  one
• 12:22
  side
• 12:22
  and
• 12:22
  white
• 12:23
  people
• 12:23
  the
• 12:23
  other
• 12:23
  side.
• 12:25
  It
• 12:25
  didn't
• 12:25
  bother
• 12:26
  us
• 12:26
  what
• 12:27
  they
• 12:27
  thought.
• 12:27
  We
• 12:28
  knew
• 12:28
  what
• 12:28
  we
• 12:28
  wanted.
• 12:30
  So
• 12:30
  that
• 12:30
  sense
• 12:30
  of
• 12:31
  purpose.
• 12:31
  Yes.
• 12:32
  But
• 12:32
  then
• 12:33
  we
• 12:33
  realized
• 12:34
  that
• 12:34
  we
• 12:34
  can't
• 12:35
  do
• 12:35
  this
• 12:35
  alone.
• 12:36
  There
• 12:36
  are
• 12:36
  only
• 12:37
  about
• 12:37
  15
• 12:37
  of
• 12:37
  us
• 12:38
  at
• 12:38
  the
• 12:38
  University
• 12:38
  of
• 12:38
  Natal
• 12:39
  that
• 12:39
  had
• 12:40
  been
• 12:40
  having
• 12:40
  these
• 12:40
  conversations.
• 12:42
  But
• 12:42
  then
• 12:42
  there
• 12:43
  was
• 12:43
  a
• 12:43
  world
• 12:43
  out
• 12:44
  there
• 12:44
  of
• 12:44
  black
• 12:44
  students
• 12:45
  in
• 12:45
  other
• 12:46
  campuses
• 12:46
  which
• 12:47
  were
• 12:48
  less
• 12:48
  open
• 12:49
  than
• 12:49
  ours.
• 12:50
  And
• 12:51
  so
• 12:51
  that
• 12:51
  was
• 12:52
  the
• 12:52
  beginning
• 12:53
  of
• 12:53
  Steve
• 12:54
  Biko's
• 12:55
  journey
• 12:57
  across
• 12:57
  campuses
• 12:58
  across
• 12:59
  the
• 12:59
  country
• 13:00
  and
• 13:00
  his
• 13:00
  neglect
• 13:01
  of
• 13:01
  his
• 13:01
  medical
• 13:01
  studies,
• 13:02
  which
• 13:02
  is
• 13:02
  why,
• 13:03
  a
• 13:03
  year
• 13:03
  later,
• 13:04
  he
• 13:04
  was
• 13:05
  excluded
• 13:06
  from
• 13:06
  school.
• 13:07
  But
• 13:07
  he
• 13:07
  didn't
• 13:07
  bother.
• 13:08
  That
• 13:08
  was
• 13:08
  not.
• 13:09
  He
• 13:09
  didn't
• 13:09
  want
• 13:09
  to
• 13:10
  be
• 13:10
  a
• 13:10
  medical
• 13:10
  student,
• 13:11
  but
• 13:11
  his
• 13:11
  mother
• 13:12
  had
• 13:12
  thought
• 13:13
  he
• 13:13
  was
• 13:13
  too
• 13:14
  politically
• 13:15
  conscious
• 13:16
  to
• 13:16
  be
• 13:16
  safe.
• 13:17
  And
• 13:17
  so
• 13:18
  medical
• 13:18
  school
• 13:19
  was
• 13:19
  supposed
• 13:19
  to
• 13:19
  be
• 13:19
  a
• 13:20
  safe
• 13:20
  haven
• 13:21
  for
• 13:21
  him.
• 13:22
  Little
• 13:22
  did
• 13:23
  she
• 13:23
  know
• 13:24
  that
• 13:24
  in
• 13:25
  that
• 13:25
  safe
• 13:25
  haven
• 13:27
  were
• 13:27
  to
• 13:27
  be
• 13:27
  born
• 13:28
  an
• 13:28
  idea
• 13:30
  that
• 13:30
  would
• 13:32
  shape
• 13:34
  the
• 13:35
  very
• 13:35
  short
• 13:36
  life
• 13:36
  of
• 13:37
  her
• 13:37
  son.
• 13:38
  And
• 13:38
  so
• 13:39
  again,
• 13:40
  we
• 13:40
  decided,
• 13:41
  we
• 13:41
  have
• 13:42
  to
• 13:43
  call
• 13:43
  a
• 13:44
  meeting
• 13:45
  of
• 13:45
  black
• 13:45
  students
• 13:46
  across
• 13:46
  the
• 13:47
  country.
• 13:48
  So
• 13:48
  we
• 13:48
  went
• 13:48
  back
• 13:48
  to
• 13:49
  the
• 13:49
  same
• 13:49
  principal
• 13:50
  and
• 13:50
  said,
• 13:50
  you
• 13:50
  know
• 13:50
  what?
• 13:51
  We
• 13:51
  would
• 13:51
  like
• 13:52
  to
• 13:52
  call
• 13:52
  other
• 13:52
  black
• 13:52
  students
• 13:53
  to
• 13:53
  a
• 13:53
  conference.
• 13:54
  He
• 13:54
  said,
• 13:54
  sure
• 13:55
  thing.
• 13:55
  How
• 13:55
  much
• 13:55
  will
• 13:56
  it
• 13:56
  cost?
• 13:58
  He
• 13:58
  gave
• 13:58
  him
• 13:59
  some
• 13:59
  figure,
• 14:00
  and
• 14:00
  there
• 14:00
  he
• 14:00
  was.
• 14:01
  I
• 14:01
  mean,
• 14:01
  the
• 14:02
  system
• 14:02
  itself
• 14:03
  funded
• 14:04
  the
• 14:05
  first
• 14:05
  meeting
• 14:06
  of
• 14:06
  the
• 14:06
  South
• 14:07
  African
• 14:09
  Student
• 14:10
  Organization,
• 14:11
  which
• 14:12
  was
• 14:12
  the
• 14:14
  founding
• 14:15
  organization
• 14:15
  of
• 14:16
  the
• 14:16
  black
• 14:16
  consciousness
• 14:17
  movement.
• 14:18
  And
• 14:19
  I'm
• 14:19
  sure
• 14:20
  years
• 14:20
  later,
• 14:21
  when
• 14:21
  this
• 14:21
  principal,
• 14:22
  who
• 14:22
  became
• 14:23
  the
• 14:23
  minister
• 14:24
  of
• 14:24
  finance
• 14:24
  in
• 14:25
  the
• 14:25
  National
• 14:25
  Party,
• 14:26
  when
• 14:27
  he
• 14:27
  looked
• 14:27
  back,
• 14:28
  he
• 14:28
  must
• 14:28
  have
• 14:28
  asked
• 14:28
  himself,
• 14:29
  what
• 14:30
  were
• 14:30
  you
• 14:30
  smoking?
• 14:36
  Well,
• 14:36
  if
• 14:36
  you
• 14:37
  can
• 14:37
  figure
• 14:37
  it
• 14:37
  out,
• 14:37
  send
• 14:38
  us
• 14:38
  some.
• 14:38
  Okay.
• 14:40
  Really?
• 14:42
  Yeah.
• 14:43
  We
• 14:43
  need
• 14:44
  to
• 14:44
  put
• 14:44
  it
• 14:44
  in
• 14:44
  the
• 14:44
  drinking
• 14:45
  water.
• 14:46
  That's
• 14:47
  wonderful.
• 14:47
  Man
• 14:47
  Feeler.
• 14:48
  Gosh,
• 14:49
  I
• 14:50
  have
• 14:50
  so
• 14:50
  many
• 14:50
  questions,
• 14:51
  but
• 14:51
  I'm.
• 14:51
  I'm.
• 14:52
  You're
• 14:52
  on
• 14:52
  a
• 14:52
  roll.
• 14:53
  Would.
• 14:53
  Is.
• 14:53
  Would
• 14:54
  you
• 14:54
  like
• 14:54
  to
• 14:54
  follow
• 14:54
  up
• 14:55
  on
• 14:56
  what
• 14:56
  you've
• 14:56
  been
• 14:57
  saying?
• 14:58
  Well,
• 14:58
  perhaps
• 14:59
  that
• 14:59
  will
• 14:59
  help
• 15:00
  surface
• 15:00
  other
• 15:01
  questions,
• 15:01
  because
• 15:02
  the
• 15:02
  distinguishing
• 15:03
  feature
• 15:04
  of
• 15:05
  our
• 15:06
  black
• 15:06
  consciousness
• 15:07
  movement
• 15:08
  was
• 15:08
  that
• 15:09
  we
• 15:09
  were
• 15:09
  not
• 15:10
  simply
• 15:11
  looking
• 15:12
  to
• 15:12
  transform
• 15:13
  our
• 15:14
  inner
• 15:14
  selves,
• 15:15
  which
• 15:15
  was
• 15:15
  obviously
• 15:16
  fundamental,
• 15:17
  because
• 15:18
  mental
• 15:19
  slavery
• 15:20
  is
• 15:21
  the
• 15:22
  obstacle
• 15:24
  to
• 15:24
  any
• 15:24
  other
• 15:25
  transformational
• 15:26
  process
• 15:27
  that
• 15:27
  can
• 15:27
  happen.
• 15:28
  So
• 15:29
  one
• 15:29
  needs
• 15:29
  to
• 15:30
  free
• 15:30
  the
• 15:31
  mind,
• 15:31
  the
• 15:32
  heart
• 15:33
  and
• 15:33
  the
• 15:33
  body
• 15:34
  from
• 15:36
  being
• 15:36
  defined
• 15:36
  by
• 15:37
  others
• 15:37
  and
• 15:38
  from
• 15:38
  accepting
• 15:40
  barriers
• 15:41
  to
• 15:42
  becoming
• 15:43
  that
• 15:43
  which
• 15:43
  you
• 15:44
  have
• 15:44
  been
• 15:44
  created
• 15:45
  to
• 15:45
  become.
• 15:46
  But
• 15:46
  once
• 15:47
  that
• 15:47
  happens,
• 15:48
  the
• 15:48
  question
• 15:48
  is
• 15:49
  then
• 15:50
  how
• 15:50
  do
• 15:51
  you
• 15:52
  make
• 15:52
  sure
• 15:52
  that
• 15:53
  this
• 15:54
  consciousness
• 15:55
  translates
• 15:57
  into
• 15:57
  practical
• 15:58
  manifestations?
• 16:00
  So
• 16:00
  we
• 16:00
  had
• 16:00
  big
• 16:00
  conversations
• 16:01
  about
• 16:02
  the
• 16:02
  practical
• 16:03
  manifestations
• 16:04
  of
• 16:05
  the
• 16:05
  black
• 16:05
  consciousness
• 16:07
  philosophy.
• 16:08
  Did
• 16:08
  you
• 16:09
  record
• 16:09
  those
• 16:09
  meetings,
• 16:10
  Mambila?
• 16:11
  We
• 16:11
  didn't,
• 16:12
  because
• 16:12
  that
• 16:12
  time
• 16:12
  we
• 16:13
  didn't
• 16:13
  have
• 16:13
  tape
• 16:14
  recorders.
• 16:14
  We
• 16:15
  didn't
• 16:15
  have.
• 16:16
  We
• 16:16
  were
• 16:16
  as
• 16:17
  poor
• 16:17
  as
• 16:18
  church
• 16:18
  mice.
• 16:20
  But
• 16:21
  what
• 16:21
  we
• 16:21
  did
• 16:22
  do
• 16:23
  is
• 16:23
  we
• 16:24
  recorded
• 16:25
  the
• 16:25
  evolution
• 16:26
  of
• 16:26
  the
• 16:26
  black
• 16:27
  consciousness
• 16:27
  movement
• 16:28
  in
• 16:29
  a
• 16:29
  book
• 16:30
  which
• 16:30
  was
• 16:30
  published
• 16:31
  after
• 16:31
  Steve
• 16:32
  died
• 16:32
  called
• 16:33
  I
• 16:34
  Write
• 16:34
  what
• 16:35
  I
• 16:35
  Like,
• 16:36
  which
• 16:36
  were
• 16:37
  articles
• 16:38
  which
• 16:38
  appeared
• 16:40
  every
• 16:41
  month
• 16:42
  in
• 16:42
  the
• 16:43
  first
• 16:43
  SASO
• 16:44
  newsletter,
• 16:45
  which
• 16:45
  were
• 16:45
  reflections
• 16:46
  of
• 16:46
  what
• 16:47
  we're
• 16:47
  thinking
• 16:47
  about,
• 16:48
  what
• 16:48
  we're
• 16:48
  talking
• 16:48
  about,
• 16:49
  what
• 16:49
  were
• 16:49
  the
• 16:50
  issues
• 16:50
  that
• 16:50
  we're
• 16:50
  talking
• 16:51
  about.
• 16:52
  And
• 16:52
  so
• 16:53
  yes,
• 16:54
  it
• 16:54
  is
• 16:54
  recorded
• 16:55
  retrospectively,
• 16:57
  but
• 16:58
  from
• 16:59
  articles
• 17:00
  that
• 17:00
  were
• 17:00
  written
• 17:01
  in
• 17:01
  the
• 17:02
  middle
• 17:02
  of
• 17:02
  the
• 17:02
  night
• 17:03
  with
• 17:03
  one
• 17:03
  finger
• 17:04
  that
• 17:04
  Steve
• 17:04
  used
• 17:05
  to
• 17:05
  type
• 17:05
  with.
• 17:05
  And
• 17:06
  I'll
• 17:06
  be
• 17:06
  sitting
• 17:06
  there
• 17:07
  and
• 17:07
  reading
• 17:07
  from
• 17:08
  the
• 17:08
  notes
• 17:08
  we
• 17:08
  had
• 17:08
  been
• 17:09
  discussing.
• 17:10
  And
• 17:10
  that's
• 17:10
  how
• 17:11
  those
• 17:12
  newsletters
• 17:12
  were
• 17:14
  written.
• 17:14
  And
• 17:15
  then
• 17:15
  we
• 17:15
  used
• 17:15
  the,
• 17:16
  we
• 17:16
  didn't
• 17:17
  have
• 17:17
  the
• 17:19
  printers,
• 17:20
  we
• 17:20
  would
• 17:20
  use
• 17:20
  the
• 17:21
  psycho
• 17:21
  styling
• 17:22
  machine
• 17:22
  with
• 17:23
  all
• 17:23
  that
• 17:23
  ink
• 17:24
  and
• 17:24
  mess,
• 17:25
  but
• 17:25
  we
• 17:25
  did.
• 17:26
  And
• 17:26
  then
• 17:26
  we
• 17:27
  put
• 17:27
  it
• 17:27
  together,
• 17:28
  staple
• 17:29
  them
• 17:29
  together,
• 17:30
  distribute
• 17:30
  them.
• 17:31
  And
• 17:32
  that's
• 17:32
  how
• 17:32
  the
• 17:32
  movement
• 17:34
  was
• 17:34
  formed
• 17:34
  and
• 17:35
  perpetuated.
• 17:37
  And,
• 17:37
  and
• 17:37
  did
• 17:37
  you
• 17:38
  have
• 17:38
  a,
• 17:38
  one
• 17:38
  of
• 17:39
  my
• 17:39
  all
• 17:39
  time
• 17:39
  heroes,
• 17:40
  American
• 17:41
  Heroes
• 17:41
  connection
• 17:42
  with
• 17:42
  Martin
• 17:43
  Luther
• 17:43
  King
• 17:43
  Jr.
• 17:44
  And
• 17:44
  the
• 17:44
  work
• 17:45
  that
• 17:45
  he'd
• 17:45
  done
• 17:45
  in
• 17:45
  the
• 17:45
  United
• 17:46
  States
• 17:46
  and,
• 17:46
  and
• 17:47
  his,
• 17:47
  I
• 17:47
  guess
• 17:47
  he
• 17:47
  was
• 17:48
  dead
• 17:48
  by
• 17:48
  the
• 17:48
  time
• 17:49
  this
• 17:49
  started
• 17:49
  going.
• 17:50
  But
• 17:50
  very,
• 17:51
  a
• 17:51
  very
• 17:51
  short
• 17:52
  period.
• 17:52
  Was
• 17:52
  there
• 17:53
  a
• 17:53
  connection
• 17:53
  with
• 17:53
  that,
• 17:54
  with
• 17:54
  him?
• 17:55
  Well,
• 17:56
  what
• 17:56
  you
• 17:56
  have
• 17:56
  to
• 17:57
  remember
• 17:57
  is
• 17:57
  that
• 17:58
  in
• 17:58
  the
• 17:58
  60s,
• 18:00
  the
• 18:00
  apartheid
• 18:01
  government
• 18:02
  prohibited
• 18:02
  any
• 18:03
  publication
• 18:05
  that
• 18:05
  would
• 18:06
  touch
• 18:06
  on
• 18:06
  matters
• 18:07
  like
• 18:07
  Martin
• 18:08
  Luther
• 18:08
  King
• 18:08
  would
• 18:08
  do,
• 18:09
  let
• 18:09
  alone
• 18:10
  Malcolm
• 18:11
  X,
• 18:11
  let
• 18:11
  alone
• 18:12
  the
• 18:12
  black
• 18:12
  power
• 18:12
  movement.
• 18:13
  But
• 18:13
  guess
• 18:14
  what?
• 18:15
  One
• 18:15
  of
• 18:15
  the
• 18:16
  15
• 18:17
  was
• 18:17
  the
• 18:18
  son
• 18:18
  of
• 18:18
  two
• 18:19
  university
• 18:20
  lecturers
• 18:22
  and
• 18:22
  so
• 18:22
  had
• 18:23
  access
• 18:23
  to
• 18:23
  the
• 18:24
  university
• 18:24
  library.
• 18:26
  Uhhuh.
• 18:28
  So
• 18:28
  we
• 18:29
  got
• 18:29
  all
• 18:30
  of
• 18:30
  the
• 18:31
  news
• 18:31
  about
• 18:32
  what
• 18:32
  was
• 18:32
  going
• 18:32
  on
• 18:33
  in
• 18:33
  the
• 18:33
  black
• 18:33
  power
• 18:34
  movement,
• 18:34
  Martin
• 18:35
  Luther.
• 18:36
  We
• 18:36
  even
• 18:36
  in
• 18:37
  the
• 18:37
  end
• 18:37
  got
• 18:38
  tapes
• 18:39
  of
• 18:40
  the
• 18:40
  I
• 18:40
  have
• 18:41
  a
• 18:41
  Dream
• 18:41
  speech,
• 18:42
  tapes
• 18:42
  of
• 18:43
  Malcolm
• 18:44
  X's
• 18:44
  speeches,
• 18:45
  tapes
• 18:46
  of
• 18:46
  the
• 18:46
  Black
• 18:47
  power
• 18:47
  movement,
• 18:48
  the
• 18:48
  Angela
• 18:48
  Davis
• 18:49
  is
• 18:49
  of
• 18:49
  this
• 18:49
  day
• 18:50
  right
• 18:51
  there
• 18:52
  on
• 18:52
  campus.
• 18:54
  And
• 18:54
  of
• 18:54
  course
• 18:55
  they
• 18:55
  didn't
• 18:55
  know
• 18:55
  it
• 18:55
  was
• 18:56
  happening.
• 19:00
  Did
• 19:00
  you
• 19:00
  start
• 19:00
  at
• 19:01
  some
• 19:01
  point
• 19:01
  start
• 19:02
  to
• 19:02
  realize
• 19:03
  that
• 19:03
  the
• 19:04
  principles
• 19:05
  that
• 19:05
  you
• 19:05
  were
• 19:06
  espousing
• 19:07
  and
• 19:07
  developing
• 19:10
  weren't
• 19:10
  just
• 19:10
  for
• 19:11
  black
• 19:11
  people?
• 19:11
  And
• 19:12
  did
• 19:12
  they
• 19:13
  start
• 19:13
  to
• 19:14
  change
• 19:16
  white
• 19:16
  folks
• 19:17
  or
• 19:17
  whoever
• 19:18
  other
• 19:19
  folks
• 19:19
  who
• 19:19
  were
• 19:20
  associated
• 19:20
  with
• 19:21
  you
• 19:21
  were
• 19:22
  they
• 19:22
  started
• 19:22
  looking
• 19:22
  at
• 19:22
  this
• 19:23
  and
• 19:23
  going,
• 19:23
  look
• 19:24
  what
• 19:24
  they're
• 19:24
  doing.
• 19:24
  Oh
• 19:25
  my
• 19:25
  God.
• 19:26
  You
• 19:26
  know,
• 19:27
  maybe,
• 19:27
  you
• 19:28
  know,
• 19:28
  I
• 19:28
  have
• 19:28
  to
• 19:28
  start
• 19:29
  with
• 19:29
  me.
• 19:29
  Was
• 19:29
  there
• 19:30
  any
• 19:30
  of
• 19:30
  that
• 19:30
  kind
• 19:30
  of.
• 19:31
  Of.
• 19:31
  Of
• 19:31
  bleed
• 19:32
  over
• 19:32
  into
• 19:34
  people
• 19:34
  besides,
• 19:35
  I
• 19:36
  guess,
• 19:36
  black
• 19:36
  South
• 19:37
  Africans
• 19:37
  who
• 19:37
  were
• 19:38
  starting
• 19:38
  to
• 19:38
  kind
• 19:38
  of
• 19:39
  wake
• 19:39
  up
• 19:39
  at
• 19:40
  the
• 19:40
  same
• 19:40
  time
• 19:40
  or
• 19:41
  because
• 19:41
  of
• 19:41
  this?
• 19:43
  Absolutely.
• 19:44
  Particularly
• 19:46
  a
• 19:46
  few
• 19:48
  white
• 19:48
  students
• 19:49
  who
• 19:49
  were
• 19:49
  our
• 19:49
  contemporaries.
• 19:51
  And
• 19:51
  some
• 19:51
  of
• 19:52
  them
• 19:52
  I'm
• 19:52
  still
• 19:52
  friends
• 19:53
  with,
• 19:53
  people
• 19:54
  like
• 19:54
  Horst
• 19:55
  Kleinschmidt,
• 19:56
  people
• 19:56
  like
• 19:57
  Jeff
• 19:57
  Badlinder,
• 19:58
  who's
• 19:58
  now
• 19:59
  a
• 19:59
  big
• 19:59
  shot
• 20:00
  advocate,
• 20:01
  and
• 20:01
  a
• 20:02
  few
• 20:02
  others.
• 20:03
  But
• 20:03
  for
• 20:03
  the
• 20:03
  majority,
• 20:05
  which
• 20:05
  is
• 20:06
  an
• 20:06
  important
• 20:06
  issue
• 20:07
  about
• 20:07
  transformation,
• 20:08
  they
• 20:09
  heard
• 20:09
  the
• 20:09
  message.
• 20:11
  They
• 20:11
  were
• 20:11
  petrified
• 20:12
  of
• 20:12
  the
• 20:12
  implications
• 20:13
  of.
• 20:14
  And
• 20:14
  so
• 20:15
  it
• 20:15
  didn't
• 20:16
  change
• 20:16
  their
• 20:16
  lives
• 20:17
  because
• 20:17
  they
• 20:18
  didn't
• 20:18
  dare
• 20:20
  to
• 20:21
  change
• 20:21
  their
• 20:21
  life.
• 20:22
  They
• 20:22
  were
• 20:22
  scared
• 20:23
  that
• 20:23
  they
• 20:23
  would
• 20:23
  be
• 20:23
  persecuted
• 20:24
  if
• 20:24
  they
• 20:24
  changed.
• 20:25
  No,
• 20:26
  they
• 20:26
  were
• 20:26
  scared
• 20:27
  of
• 20:27
  losing
• 20:27
  their
• 20:28
  privileges.
• 20:31
  In
• 20:32
  the
• 20:32
  same
• 20:32
  way
• 20:32
  today
• 20:33
  we
• 20:33
  have
• 20:34
  climate
• 20:34
  change.
• 20:34
  We
• 20:35
  know
• 20:35
  all
• 20:35
  the
• 20:36
  science
• 20:36
  about
• 20:36
  climate
• 20:37
  change.
• 20:38
  We
• 20:38
  know
• 20:38
  that
• 20:39
  this
• 20:39
  chasing
• 20:40
  after
• 20:40
  growth,
• 20:42
  economic
• 20:42
  growth,
• 20:42
  is
• 20:43
  ruinous,
• 20:44
  not
• 20:45
  just
• 20:45
  for
• 20:45
  the
• 20:46
  planet,
• 20:46
  but
• 20:46
  for
• 20:46
  ourselves.
• 20:48
  But
• 20:48
  we
• 20:48
  continue.
• 20:49
  Why?
• 20:50
  Because
• 20:50
  the
• 20:50
  incentives
• 20:52
  are
• 20:52
  for
• 20:52
  continuing
• 20:54
  with
• 20:54
  business
• 20:54
  as
• 20:55
  usual.
• 20:56
  So
• 20:57
  knowing
• 20:58
  and
• 20:58
  doing
• 20:59
  are
• 20:59
  two
• 20:59
  different
• 21:00
  things.
• 21:00
  Now
• 21:01
  it
• 21:01
  goes
• 21:01
  back
• 21:02
  to
• 21:02
  what
• 21:03
  did
• 21:03
  we
• 21:03
  do
• 21:03
  with
• 21:04
  the
• 21:04
  consciousness
• 21:05
  that
• 21:05
  we
• 21:05
  had.
• 21:06
  We
• 21:06
  agreed
• 21:07
  that
• 21:08
  that
• 21:08
  consciousness
• 21:09
  will
• 21:09
  mean
• 21:10
  nothing
• 21:10
  unless
• 21:10
  it
• 21:11
  has
• 21:11
  got
• 21:11
  practical
• 21:12
  manifestations.
• 21:13
  And
• 21:13
  so
• 21:14
  we
• 21:14
  took
• 21:14
  a
• 21:14
  decision
• 21:15
  as
• 21:15
  students
• 21:16
  that
• 21:17
  we
• 21:17
  have
• 21:18
  to
• 21:18
  practice
• 21:19
  what
• 21:19
  we
• 21:19
  preach
• 21:20
  in
• 21:20
  terms
• 21:21
  of
• 21:21
  mobilizing
• 21:22
  people
• 21:23
  to
• 21:24
  restore
• 21:25
  their
• 21:25
  own
• 21:25
  dignity,
• 21:26
  to
• 21:27
  free
• 21:27
  themselves
• 21:28
  from
• 21:28
  fear,
• 21:29
  and
• 21:30
  to
• 21:30
  treat
• 21:30
  one
• 21:31
  another
• 21:32
  with
• 21:32
  respect
• 21:34
  and
• 21:34
  to
• 21:34
  build
• 21:35
  black
• 21:35
  solidarity.
• 21:37
  So
• 21:37
  we
• 21:37
  decided
• 21:38
  that
• 21:38
  if
• 21:39
  you
• 21:39
  are
• 21:39
  a
• 21:39
  lawyer
• 21:40
  during
• 21:40
  the
• 21:40
  weekend,
• 21:41
  find
• 21:41
  a
• 21:41
  place
• 21:42
  where
• 21:42
  you
• 21:42
  can
• 21:42
  talk
• 21:43
  to
• 21:43
  people
• 21:43
  who
• 21:44
  need
• 21:44
  legal
• 21:44
  advice.
• 21:45
  If
• 21:45
  you
• 21:45
  are
• 21:45
  a
• 21:46
  doctor
• 21:46
  or
• 21:47
  a
• 21:47
  medical
• 21:47
  student
• 21:47
  like
• 21:48
  me,
• 21:48
  work
• 21:49
  in
• 21:49
  the
• 21:49
  poorest
• 21:50
  clinics
• 21:50
  and
• 21:51
  get
• 21:51
  to
• 21:51
  know
• 21:51
  and
• 21:52
  talk
• 21:52
  to
• 21:52
  people
• 21:52
  about
• 21:53
  the
• 21:53
  things
• 21:54
  that
• 21:54
  ail
• 21:54
  them
• 21:54
  because
• 21:55
  they
• 21:55
  are
• 21:55
  not
• 21:56
  sick
• 21:56
  because
• 21:56
  of
• 21:56
  a
• 21:57
  virus.
• 21:57
  They
• 21:57
  are
• 21:57
  sick
• 21:58
  because
• 21:58
  of
• 21:58
  the
• 21:58
  socioeconomic
• 21:59
  system.
• 22:01
  The
• 22:01
  same
• 22:01
  thing
• 22:01
  with
• 22:01
  teachers,
• 22:02
  which
• 22:02
  is
• 22:03
  why
• 22:04
  June
• 22:05
  76
• 22:06
  happened,
• 22:07
  because
• 22:08
  the
• 22:08
  students
• 22:08
  who
• 22:09
  had
• 22:09
  been
• 22:09
  thrown
• 22:09
  out
• 22:09
  of
• 22:10
  university
• 22:10
  became
• 22:11
  private
• 22:12
  teachers
• 22:13
  in
• 22:13
  the
• 22:13
  schools,
• 22:14
  in
• 22:15
  high
• 22:15
  schools
• 22:15
  across
• 22:16
  the
• 22:16
  country,
• 22:17
  and
• 22:17
  they
• 22:18
  started
• 22:19
  conscientizing
• 22:20
  those
• 22:20
  students.
• 22:22
  And
• 22:22
  we
• 22:22
  also.
• 22:23
  One
• 22:23
  of
• 22:23
  the
• 22:23
  practical
• 22:24
  manifestations
• 22:25
  of
• 22:25
  black
• 22:25
  consciousness
• 22:26
  was
• 22:26
  that
• 22:27
  we
• 22:27
  believed
• 22:28
  in
• 22:28
  intergenerational
• 22:30
  conversations.
• 22:31
  So
• 22:32
  not
• 22:32
  only
• 22:32
  among
• 22:33
  students
• 22:34
  at
• 22:34
  university
• 22:35
  level,
• 22:35
  but
• 22:36
  high
• 22:36
  school,
• 22:37
  and
• 22:37
  of
• 22:37
  course
• 22:37
  our
• 22:38
  parents
• 22:38
  and
• 22:39
  the
• 22:39
  workers.
• 22:40
  So
• 22:40
  we
• 22:40
  mobilize
• 22:41
  workers,
• 22:42
  our
• 22:42
  parents,
• 22:43
  faith
• 22:43
  communities,
• 22:45
  and
• 22:47
  voila.
• 22:47
  Because
• 22:47
  it
• 22:48
  wasn't
• 22:48
  about,
• 22:49
  this
• 22:49
  is
• 22:49
  what
• 22:50
  you
• 22:50
  must
• 22:50
  do
• 22:50
  to
• 22:50
  be
• 22:50
  free.
• 22:51
  It
• 22:51
  was
• 22:51
  about
• 22:53
  how
• 22:53
  do
• 22:54
  you
• 22:55
  work
• 22:56
  to
• 22:57
  free
• 22:57
  yourself
• 22:58
  from
• 22:58
  the
• 22:59
  sense
• 22:59
  that
• 22:59
  you
• 22:59
  are
• 23:00
  less
• 23:00
  than
• 23:01
  and
• 23:02
  the
• 23:02
  good
• 23:02
  Thing
• 23:03
  with
• 23:03
  South
• 23:04
  Africans,
• 23:04
  black
• 23:05
  and
• 23:05
  white,
• 23:05
  is
• 23:05
  that
• 23:06
  they
• 23:06
  are
• 23:06
  highly
• 23:07
  religious,
• 23:08
  spiritual
• 23:08
  people.
• 23:09
  So
• 23:09
  when
• 23:10
  you
• 23:10
  speak
• 23:10
  to
• 23:10
  them
• 23:10
  about
• 23:11
  our
• 23:12
  ancestors
• 23:13
  must
• 23:14
  be
• 23:14
  hanging
• 23:14
  their
• 23:14
  heads
• 23:15
  in
• 23:15
  shame
• 23:15
  to
• 23:16
  see
• 23:16
  how
• 23:16
  you
• 23:17
  have
• 23:17
  accepted
• 23:18
  being
• 23:18
  treated
• 23:19
  as
• 23:19
  inferior
• 23:20
  to
• 23:20
  others
• 23:21
  when
• 23:21
  in
• 23:22
  fact
• 23:22
  you
• 23:22
  come
• 23:23
  from
• 23:23
  a
• 23:23
  great
• 23:24
  heritage.
• 23:26
  And.
• 23:26
  And
• 23:26
  we're
• 23:27
  all
• 23:27
  God's
• 23:27
  children.
• 23:28
  And
• 23:28
  how
• 23:28
  can
• 23:29
  you
• 23:29
  treat
• 23:29
  any
• 23:29
  of
• 23:30
  God's
• 23:30
  children
• 23:31
  as
• 23:32
  if
• 23:32
  they're
• 23:32
  less
• 23:33
  than.
• 23:33
  Exactly.
• 23:34
  It
• 23:34
  just.
• 23:35
  It
• 23:35
  just
• 23:36
  makes
• 23:36
  absolutely
• 23:37
  no
• 23:37
  sense.
• 23:37
  And
• 23:38
  I
• 23:38
  think
• 23:38
  that
• 23:38
  that
• 23:39
  point
• 23:39
  needs
• 23:39
  to
• 23:39
  be,
• 23:40
  I
• 23:40
  don't
• 23:41
  know,
• 23:41
  talked
• 23:41
  about
• 23:41
  more
• 23:42
  so
• 23:43
  that
• 23:43
  we
• 23:43
  can
• 23:43
  awaken
• 23:43
  the
• 23:44
  religious
• 23:44
  sensibilities
• 23:45
  that
• 23:45
  needs
• 23:45
  to
• 23:46
  be
• 23:46
  wakened
• 23:46
  along
• 23:46
  those
• 23:47
  lines
• 23:47
  still,
• 23:48
  you
• 23:48
  know,
• 23:49
  and
• 23:49
  in
• 23:50
  our
• 23:50
  country,
• 23:50
  in
• 23:50
  the
• 23:50
  United
• 23:51
  States
• 23:51
  anyway,
• 23:52
  it's
• 23:52
  like,
• 23:53
  well,
• 23:54
  in
• 23:54
  my
• 23:54
  country.
• 23:55
  As
• 23:55
  well,
• 23:55
  I
• 23:56
  mean,
• 23:56
  the
• 23:57
  apartheid
• 23:58
  in
• 23:58
  the
• 23:59
  sense
• 23:59
  of
• 24:00
  white
• 24:01
  supremacy
• 24:02
  is
• 24:02
  alive
• 24:02
  and
• 24:02
  well.
• 24:03
  And
• 24:03
  it
• 24:03
  doesn't
• 24:04
  help
• 24:05
  that
• 24:06
  the
• 24:07
  post
• 24:07
  apartheid
• 24:08
  government
• 24:09
  successfully,
• 24:10
  I
• 24:10
  mean,
• 24:11
  successively
• 24:13
  have
• 24:13
  failed
• 24:14
  to
• 24:15
  live
• 24:15
  up
• 24:15
  to
• 24:16
  the
• 24:17
  ideals
• 24:18
  of
• 24:18
  the
• 24:18
  freedom
• 24:19
  that
• 24:19
  so
• 24:19
  many
• 24:20
  people
• 24:20
  lived
• 24:21
  and
• 24:21
  died
• 24:21
  for.
• 24:23
  And
• 24:23
  that
• 24:23
  simply
• 24:25
  reinforces
• 24:26
  white
• 24:26
  supremacists
• 24:27
  to
• 24:27
  say,
• 24:28
  you
• 24:28
  see,
• 24:29
  we
• 24:29
  told
• 24:30
  you
• 24:30
  that
• 24:31
  black
• 24:31
  people
• 24:31
  cannot
• 24:32
  govern.
• 24:32
  It's
• 24:32
  got
• 24:33
  nothing
• 24:33
  to
• 24:33
  do
• 24:34
  with
• 24:34
  color.
• 24:34
  It's
• 24:35
  everything
• 24:35
  to
• 24:36
  do
• 24:36
  with
• 24:36
  the
• 24:37
  values.
• 24:38
  And
• 24:38
  the
• 24:38
  unfortunate
• 24:39
  thing
• 24:39
  that
• 24:40
  happened
• 24:40
  to
• 24:40
  my
• 24:40
  country
• 24:41
  is
• 24:42
  in
• 24:42
  the
• 24:42
  aftermath
• 24:44
  of
• 24:45
  the
• 24:45
  release
• 24:45
  of
• 24:46
  Mandela,
• 24:47
  there
• 24:47
  was
• 24:48
  too
• 24:48
  much
• 24:49
  focus
• 24:49
  by
• 24:50
  ANC
• 24:51
  people
• 24:52
  on
• 24:52
  owning
• 24:53
  Mandela
• 24:53
  as
• 24:53
  theirs,
• 24:54
  whereas
• 24:55
  Mandela
• 24:55
  was
• 24:56
  beyond
• 24:57
  the
• 24:57
  anc,
• 24:59
  but
• 24:59
  also
• 25:00
  not
• 25:01
  learning
• 25:02
  the
• 25:02
  lessons
• 25:03
  of
• 25:04
  the
• 25:05
  internal
• 25:05
  struggles
• 25:07
  since
• 25:08
  they
• 25:08
  had
• 25:08
  been
• 25:09
  in
• 25:09
  exile
• 25:10
  or
• 25:10
  in
• 25:10
  jail.
• 25:11
  In
• 25:11
  fact,
• 25:12
  Mr.
• 25:12
  Mandela
• 25:13
  said
• 25:14
  this
• 25:14
  to
• 25:14
  me
• 25:14
  because
• 25:14
  I
• 25:14
  used
• 25:15
  to
• 25:15
  visit
• 25:15
  him
• 25:16
  towards
• 25:16
  the
• 25:16
  end
• 25:16
  of
• 25:17
  his
• 25:17
  period
• 25:18
  in
• 25:18
  jail
• 25:19
  every
• 25:19
  second
• 25:19
  weekend.
• 25:20
  And
• 25:21
  he
• 25:21
  said
• 25:21
  to
• 25:21
  me,
• 25:22
  mampela,
• 25:22
  we
• 25:23
  are
• 25:23
  coming
• 25:23
  back
• 25:23
  to
• 25:24
  a
• 25:24
  country
• 25:24
  we
• 25:25
  no
• 25:25
  longer
• 25:26
  know.
• 25:27
  So
• 25:27
  what
• 25:27
  we
• 25:28
  need
• 25:29
  is
• 25:29
  to
• 25:29
  have
• 25:30
  a
• 25:30
  panel
• 25:31
  of
• 25:31
  experts
• 25:32
  who
• 25:32
  will
• 25:32
  help
• 25:33
  us
• 25:34
  to
• 25:34
  understand
• 25:34
  the
• 25:35
  various
• 25:35
  aspects
• 25:36
  of
• 25:36
  the
• 25:37
  current
• 25:37
  South
• 25:37
  African
• 25:38
  reality.
• 25:39
  So
• 25:39
  as
• 25:39
  we
• 25:39
  negotiate,
• 25:40
  we
• 25:41
  can
• 25:41
  negotiate
• 25:42
  towards
• 25:43
  something
• 25:44
  that's
• 25:44
  informed
• 25:45
  by
• 25:45
  understanding
• 25:46
  and
• 25:46
  knowledge
• 25:47
  of
• 25:47
  the
• 25:47
  complexities.
• 25:49
  Guess
• 25:50
  what?
• 25:51
  His
• 25:52
  peers
• 25:52
  from
• 25:53
  abroad
• 25:53
  who
• 25:54
  are
• 25:54
  seeing
• 25:54
  themselves
• 25:55
  in
• 25:55
  the
• 25:55
  union
• 25:55
  buildings
• 25:56
  said,
• 25:57
  we
• 25:57
  have
• 25:57
  our
• 25:57
  own
• 25:58
  people.
• 25:59
  Well,
• 26:00
  look
• 26:00
  at
• 26:00
  us
• 26:01
  now.
• 26:01
  Because
• 26:01
  what
• 26:02
  happened
• 26:02
  is
• 26:03
  that
• 26:03
  the
• 26:03
  negotiated
• 26:04
  settlement
• 26:06
  was
• 26:07
  a
• 26:07
  very
• 26:08
  low
• 26:09
  ask.
• 26:10
  If
• 26:11
  you
• 26:11
  don't
• 26:11
  know
• 26:12
  that
• 26:13
  there
• 26:13
  is
• 26:13
  a
• 26:13
  whole
• 26:14
  big
• 26:14
  vault
• 26:15
  full
• 26:15
  of
• 26:15
  diamonds
• 26:16
  and
• 26:16
  you
• 26:17
  ask
• 26:17
  for
• 26:17
  a
• 26:17
  few
• 26:18
  pennies
• 26:18
  that
• 26:18
  you
• 26:18
  see
• 26:18
  on
• 26:19
  top
• 26:19
  of
• 26:19
  the
• 26:19
  cupboard,
• 26:20
  that's
• 26:20
  what
• 26:20
  you
• 26:20
  get.
• 26:22
  And
• 26:22
  so
• 26:23
  we
• 26:23
  had
• 26:24
  a
• 26:24
  wonderful
• 26:25
  opportunity
• 26:26
  which
• 26:26
  we
• 26:27
  could
• 26:27
  have
• 26:27
  used,
• 26:28
  because
• 26:28
  the
• 26:29
  people
• 26:29
  I
• 26:29
  went
• 26:30
  to
• 26:30
  ask
• 26:31
  to
• 26:31
  be
• 26:31
  on
• 26:31
  this
• 26:32
  panel
• 26:32
  were
• 26:32
  not
• 26:33
  going
• 26:33
  to
• 26:33
  be
• 26:33
  there
• 26:34
  as
• 26:34
  consultants.
• 26:35
  They
• 26:36
  wanted
• 26:36
  to
• 26:36
  be
• 26:36
  there
• 26:37
  as
• 26:37
  citizens
• 26:38
  making
• 26:38
  their
• 26:39
  contribution,
• 26:40
  their
• 26:40
  expertise
• 26:42
  in
• 26:42
  the
• 26:42
  economy,
• 26:43
  in
• 26:43
  finances,
• 26:44
  in
• 26:44
  education,
• 26:45
  health,
• 26:47
  infrastructure,
• 26:49
  everything
• 26:49
  that
• 26:49
  you
• 26:50
  could
• 26:50
  think
• 26:50
  of
• 26:51
  and
• 26:51
  imagine
• 26:52
  where
• 26:52
  we
• 26:52
  could
• 26:53
  have
• 26:53
  been.
• 26:53
  Because
• 26:54
  one
• 26:54
  of
• 26:55
  the
• 26:55
  fundamental
• 26:56
  mistakes
• 26:57
  made
• 26:57
  in
• 26:58
  the
• 26:58
  political
• 26:58
  settlement
• 26:59
  was
• 27:00
  to
• 27:00
  focus
• 27:00
  on
• 27:00
  the
• 27:01
  politics
• 27:02
  and
• 27:03
  forget
• 27:04
  that
• 27:05
  politics
• 27:06
  should
• 27:07
  be
• 27:08
  about
• 27:08
  the
• 27:09
  governance
• 27:10
  of
• 27:11
  resource
• 27:12
  allocations
• 27:15
  and
• 27:15
  the
• 27:15
  structures
• 27:16
  we
• 27:17
  build
• 27:17
  around
• 27:18
  the
• 27:19
  socioeconomic
• 27:21
  dispensation
• 27:22
  in
• 27:22
  the
• 27:22
  country.
• 27:24
  So
• 27:24
  now
• 27:24
  we've
• 27:24
  got
• 27:24
  political
• 27:25
  freedom,
• 27:26
  but
• 27:26
  nothing
• 27:27
  else.
• 27:29
  And
• 27:29
  the
• 27:30
  few
• 27:31
  post
• 27:32
  apartheid
• 27:34
  policies
• 27:35
  that
• 27:35
  they
• 27:35
  put
• 27:35
  in
• 27:36
  place,
• 27:37
  like
• 27:37
  black
• 27:37
  economic
• 27:38
  empowerment.
• 27:39
  This
• 27:39
  is
• 27:39
  not
• 27:39
  the
• 27:39
  United
• 27:40
  States
• 27:41
  where
• 27:41
  black
• 27:41
  people
• 27:42
  are
• 27:42
  minority.
• 27:43
  This
• 27:43
  is
• 27:44
  an
• 27:44
  African
• 27:45
  country
• 27:46
  which
• 27:46
  was
• 27:46
  not
• 27:47
  about
• 27:48
  empowering
• 27:49
  Africans.
• 27:49
  It
• 27:49
  should
• 27:50
  have
• 27:50
  been
• 27:50
  about
• 27:51
  how
• 27:51
  do
• 27:51
  we
• 27:51
  restructure
• 27:53
  the
• 27:53
  economy
• 27:55
  so
• 27:55
  it
• 27:55
  becomes
• 27:56
  an
• 27:56
  economy
• 27:57
  that's
• 27:57
  focused
• 27:58
  on
• 27:58
  well
• 27:59
  being
• 27:59
  for
• 27:59
  all
• 28:00
  and
• 28:00
  healthy
• 28:01
  ecosystems.
• 28:02
  We
• 28:02
  miss
• 28:03
  that
• 28:03
  boat,
• 28:04
  you
• 28:05
  know,
• 28:05
  in.
• 28:05
  Our
• 28:05
  country,
• 28:06
  fdr,
• 28:07
  Roosevelt,
• 28:08
  the
• 28:08
  way
• 28:08
  he
• 28:08
  dealt
• 28:08
  with
• 28:09
  that,
• 28:09
  he
• 28:09
  just
• 28:09
  had
• 28:09
  a
• 28:09
  progressive
• 28:10
  tax
• 28:10
  system.
• 28:11
  So
• 28:11
  the
• 28:12
  more
• 28:12
  money
• 28:12
  you
• 28:12
  had,
• 28:12
  the
• 28:13
  more
• 28:13
  you
• 28:13
  got
• 28:13
  taxed.
• 28:14
  And
• 28:14
  that
• 28:14
  broke
• 28:14
  up
• 28:15
  some
• 28:15
  of
• 28:16
  that,
• 28:16
  you
• 28:17
  know,
• 28:17
  just
• 28:17
  a
• 28:17
  few
• 28:17
  handful
• 28:18
  of
• 28:18
  people
• 28:18
  controlling
• 28:19
  everything.
• 28:20
  And
• 28:20
  now
• 28:21
  we've
• 28:21
  gone
• 28:21
  to
• 28:21
  the
• 28:22
  point,
• 28:22
  oh,
• 28:22
  you
• 28:22
  can't
• 28:22
  tax
• 28:23
  rich
• 28:24
  people
• 28:24
  because
• 28:25
  they're
• 28:25
  so
• 28:25
  wonderful
• 28:26
  and,
• 28:26
  and
• 28:26
  gifted.
• 28:27
  And
• 28:27
  that
• 28:27
  would
• 28:28
  be
• 28:28
  like
• 28:28
  putting
• 28:29
  them
• 28:29
  to
• 28:29
  shame.
• 28:30
  And
• 28:30
  so
• 28:30
  we've
• 28:30
  again,
• 28:31
  we've
• 28:31
  allowed
• 28:32
  this
• 28:32
  huge
• 28:33
  imbalance
• 28:34
  in
• 28:34
  the
• 28:34
  United
• 28:35
  States,
• 28:35
  as
• 28:36
  you
• 28:36
  mentioned.
• 28:36
  I
• 28:37
  don't
• 28:37
  know
• 28:37
  if
• 28:37
  it
• 28:37
  was.
• 28:37
  Listen
• 28:37
  to
• 28:37
  a
• 28:38
  talk
• 28:38
  that
• 28:38
  you,
• 28:38
  I
• 28:38
  was
• 28:38
  listening
• 28:39
  to
• 28:39
  earlier
• 28:39
  or
• 28:40
  in
• 28:40
  this
• 28:40
  talk
• 28:40
  that,
• 28:41
  that
• 28:42
  you
• 28:42
  have
• 28:42
  10%
• 28:43
  of
• 28:43
  the
• 28:43
  people
• 28:44
  that
• 28:44
  own
• 28:44
  90%
• 28:45
  of
• 28:45
  everything.
• 28:46
  And
• 28:46
  how
• 28:46
  can
• 28:46
  democracy,
• 28:47
  how
• 28:47
  can
• 28:48
  a
• 28:48
  just
• 28:49
  society
• 28:49
  exist
• 28:50
  under
• 28:51
  those
• 28:51
  kind
• 28:51
  of
• 28:51
  conditions?
• 28:53
  It's
• 28:53
  impossible.
• 28:54
  But
• 28:55
  we
• 28:55
  had
• 28:55
  a
• 28:56
  live
• 28:56
  example
• 28:57
  at
• 28:57
  the
• 28:58
  time
• 28:58
  of
• 28:58
  our
• 28:58
  transition,
• 29:00
  which
• 29:00
  was
• 29:00
  the
• 29:01
  reunification
• 29:02
  of
• 29:02
  Germany.
• 29:03
  We
• 29:03
  should
• 29:03
  have
• 29:04
  taken
• 29:04
  a
• 29:04
  leaf
• 29:04
  out
• 29:05
  of
• 29:05
  that
• 29:06
  because
• 29:06
  Helmut
• 29:07
  Kohl
• 29:08
  was
• 29:08
  not
• 29:08
  a
• 29:08
  revolutionary,
• 29:10
  but
• 29:10
  he
• 29:10
  was
• 29:10
  a
• 29:11
  very
• 29:11
  wise
• 29:12
  man.
• 29:12
  He
• 29:13
  understood
• 29:14
  that
• 29:14
  too
• 29:15
  big
• 29:16
  a
• 29:16
  degree
• 29:17
  of
• 29:17
  inequality
• 29:18
  makes
• 29:19
  human
• 29:19
  community
• 29:20
  impossible.
• 29:22
  So
• 29:22
  to
• 29:22
  build
• 29:22
  one
• 29:23
  Germany,
• 29:24
  he
• 29:25
  convinced
• 29:26
  the
• 29:26
  German
• 29:27
  people
• 29:28
  that
• 29:28
  those
• 29:29
  on
• 29:29
  the
• 29:29
  west
• 29:30
  have
• 29:31
  to
• 29:33
  lift
• 29:34
  those
• 29:34
  on
• 29:34
  the
• 29:35
  East.
• 29:36
  And
• 29:36
  it's
• 29:36
  going
• 29:36
  to
• 29:37
  be
• 29:37
  done
• 29:38
  not
• 29:38
  for
• 29:38
  five
• 29:39
  years,
• 29:39
  not
• 29:39
  for
• 29:40
  10
• 29:40
  years,
• 29:41
  but
• 29:41
  it
• 29:42
  was
• 29:42
  done
• 29:42
  for
• 29:43
  two
• 29:43
  decades.
• 29:45
  And
• 29:45
  look
• 29:45
  at
• 29:46
  it
• 29:46
  now.
• 29:46
  You
• 29:47
  go
• 29:47
  into
• 29:47
  Berlin,
• 29:48
  you
• 29:48
  can't
• 29:49
  tell
• 29:49
  me
• 29:50
  where's
• 29:50
  east
• 29:50
  and
• 29:51
  West.
• 29:51
  But
• 29:51
  I
• 29:52
  had
• 29:52
  the
• 29:53
  fortune
• 29:53
  of
• 29:53
  visiting
• 29:54
  Berlin
• 29:55
  in
• 29:55
  1991.
• 29:57
  It
• 29:57
  was
• 29:58
  shocking.
• 29:58
  It
• 29:59
  was
• 29:59
  like,
• 30:00
  so
• 30:00
  where
• 30:00
  to?
• 30:01
  And
• 30:02
  all
• 30:02
  of
• 30:02
  those
• 30:03
  areas
• 30:04
  of
• 30:04
  Johannesburg
• 30:05
  then
• 30:06
  which
• 30:07
  were
• 30:07
  in
• 30:07
  a
• 30:07
  bad
• 30:08
  state
• 30:08
  compared
• 30:09
  to
• 30:09
  something,
• 30:10
  or
• 30:11
  Alex
• 30:11
  and
• 30:12
  Santon.
• 30:13
  But
• 30:14
  here
• 30:14
  we
• 30:14
  have
• 30:14
  Alex
• 30:15
  and
• 30:15
  Santon
• 30:16
  in
• 30:17
  with
• 30:17
  a
• 30:18
  worse
• 30:18
  Alex
• 30:19
  30
• 30:20
  years
• 30:20
  after
• 30:21
  the
• 30:21
  end
• 30:21
  of
• 30:23
  a
• 30:23
  party
• 30:23
  than
• 30:23
  it
• 30:24
  was
• 30:25
  at
• 30:26
  the
• 30:26
  time
• 30:27
  of
• 30:27
  the
• 30:27
  transition.
• 30:28
  So
• 30:29
  what
• 30:29
  we
• 30:29
  needed
• 30:30
  in
• 30:30
  South
• 30:30
  Africa
• 30:31
  was
• 30:31
  to
• 30:32
  agree
• 30:33
  that
• 30:33
  all
• 30:34
  of
• 30:34
  us
• 30:34
  are
• 30:35
  going
• 30:35
  to
• 30:35
  contribute.
• 30:36
  Those
• 30:36
  who
• 30:36
  earned
• 30:37
  a
• 30:37
  certain
• 30:37
  amount,
• 30:38
  they
• 30:38
  have
• 30:38
  to
• 30:38
  contribute
• 30:39
  an
• 30:40
  additional
• 30:40
  tax
• 30:41
  for
• 30:41
  this.
• 30:42
  But
• 30:42
  the
• 30:43
  government
• 30:44
  had
• 30:44
  to
• 30:45
  allocate
• 30:46
  resources,
• 30:47
  including
• 30:47
  land
• 30:49
  and
• 30:49
  infrastructure
• 30:51
  investments,
• 30:52
  education,
• 30:53
  all
• 30:53
  of
• 30:54
  those
• 30:54
  basic
• 30:55
  things,
• 30:55
  to
• 30:56
  make
• 30:56
  sure
• 30:56
  that
• 30:57
  we
• 30:57
  can
• 30:57
  truly
• 30:58
  speak
• 30:59
  of
• 30:59
  one
• 31:01
  human
• 31:01
  family
• 31:02
  of
• 31:02
  South
• 31:02
  Africa.
• 31:04
  No,
• 31:04
  we
• 31:04
  didn't
• 31:04
  do
• 31:04
  that.
• 31:05
  We
• 31:05
  left
• 31:06
  intact
• 31:08
  white
• 31:09
  schools,
• 31:10
  we
• 31:10
  call
• 31:10
  them
• 31:11
  model
• 31:11
  C
• 31:12
  schools.
• 31:13
  We
• 31:13
  left
• 31:13
  intacts
• 31:15
  corporations
• 31:17
  that
• 31:17
  had
• 31:18
  extracted
• 31:19
  so
• 31:19
  much
• 31:19
  from
• 31:19
  South
• 31:20
  Africa,
• 31:20
  we
• 31:20
  even
• 31:20
  allowed
• 31:21
  them
• 31:22
  to
• 31:23
  externalize
• 31:25
  their
• 31:25
  assets
• 31:25
  to
• 31:26
  London
• 31:27
  to
• 31:27
  wherever
• 31:27
  they
• 31:27
  wanted
• 31:29
  on
• 31:29
  our
• 31:30
  watch
• 31:31
  because
• 31:31
  there
• 31:31
  was
• 31:32
  no
• 31:32
  understanding
• 31:33
  of
• 31:33
  what
• 31:34
  was
• 31:34
  possible.
• 31:35
  Did
• 31:35
  you
• 31:35
  understand
• 31:36
  it
• 31:36
  back
• 31:36
  then
• 31:36
  or
• 31:37
  is
• 31:37
  this
• 31:37
  something
• 31:37
  that
• 31:38
  you,
• 31:38
  in
• 31:38
  retrospect,
• 31:39
  that
• 31:40
  you've
• 31:40
  looked
• 31:40
  back
• 31:40
  and
• 31:40
  you
• 31:41
  learned
• 31:41
  that
• 31:41
  you
• 31:41
  did
• 31:41
  wrong
• 31:42
  at
• 31:42
  that
• 31:42
  point
• 31:43
  because
• 31:43
  you
• 31:43
  were
• 31:43
  always,
• 31:44
  from
• 31:44
  what
• 31:44
  I
• 31:44
  can
• 31:44
  tell,
• 31:45
  pretty
• 31:45
  close
• 31:45
  to
• 31:45
  that,
• 31:46
  I
• 31:46
  don't
• 31:46
  know,
• 31:46
  the
• 31:47
  founding
• 31:47
  fathers
• 31:47
  and
• 31:47
  mothers
• 31:48
  of
• 31:48
  modern
• 31:49
  democratic
• 31:49
  South
• 31:50
  Africa.
• 31:50
  You
• 31:50
  were
• 31:50
  right
• 31:51
  there.
• 31:51
  Did
• 31:52
  you
• 31:52
  understand
• 31:52
  that
• 31:52
  at
• 31:53
  the
• 31:53
  time
• 31:53
  when
• 31:53
  the
• 31:53
  transition
• 31:54
  from
• 31:54
  apartheid
• 31:55
  to
• 31:56
  democracy
• 31:56
  was
• 31:57
  happening?
• 31:57
  Absolutely.
• 31:58
  The
• 31:58
  reason
• 31:59
  Mandela
• 31:59
  asked
• 31:59
  me
• 32:00
  is
• 32:00
  because
• 32:00
  I
• 32:01
  had
• 32:01
  written
• 32:01
  a
• 32:02
  book
• 32:02
  with
• 32:02
  Professor
• 32:03
  Francis
• 32:03
  Wilson
• 32:04
  called
• 32:05
  Uprooting
• 32:05
  Poverty
• 32:06
  the
• 32:06
  South
• 32:07
  African
• 32:07
  Challenge,
• 32:08
  which
• 32:08
  was
• 32:08
  published
• 32:09
  in
• 32:09
  1989.
• 32:11
  So
• 32:11
  even
• 32:11
  if
• 32:12
  they'd
• 32:12
  done
• 32:12
  nothing
• 32:12
  else
• 32:13
  but
• 32:14
  just
• 32:14
  look
• 32:14
  at
• 32:14
  what
• 32:15
  that
• 32:15
  book
• 32:15
  was
• 32:16
  recommending
• 32:17
  and
• 32:18
  the
• 32:18
  subsequent
• 32:19
  publication
• 32:20
  we
• 32:20
  had
• 32:20
  about
• 32:21
  children
• 32:21
  on
• 32:22
  the
• 32:22
  front
• 32:22
  line
• 32:23
  and
• 32:23
  what
• 32:24
  needed
• 32:24
  to
• 32:24
  be
• 32:24
  done
• 32:25
  because
• 32:25
  children
• 32:26
  had
• 32:26
  been
• 32:27
  in
• 32:27
  the
• 32:27
  front
• 32:28
  line
• 32:28
  of
• 32:28
  the
• 32:29
  struggle
• 32:29
  since
• 32:30
  1976.
• 32:32
  Sower
• 32:32
  to
• 32:33
  uprising.
• 32:34
  They
• 32:34
  didn't
• 32:35
  do
• 32:35
  any
• 32:35
  of
• 32:35
  that.
• 32:36
  So
• 32:37
  I
• 32:38
  don't
• 32:38
  say
• 32:38
  I
• 32:38
  was
• 32:38
  an
• 32:39
  expert.
• 32:39
  That's
• 32:39
  why
• 32:40
  I
• 32:40
  when
• 32:40
  Mandela
• 32:41
  asked
• 32:41
  for
• 32:41
  experts,
• 32:42
  I
• 32:42
  didn't
• 32:42
  put
• 32:42
  myself
• 32:42
  there.
• 32:43
  I
• 32:44
  went
• 32:44
  and
• 32:44
  found
• 32:45
  the
• 32:45
  experts,
• 32:46
  the
• 32:46
  Francis
• 32:47
  Wilsons
• 32:47
  of
• 32:48
  this
• 32:48
  day
• 32:48
  and
• 32:49
  the
• 32:49
  many
• 32:49
  others
• 32:49
  who
• 32:50
  were
• 32:50
  in
• 32:50
  the
• 32:50
  various
• 32:50
  areas
• 32:51
  where
• 32:52
  we
• 32:52
  could
• 32:52
  have
• 32:53
  done
• 32:53
  this
• 32:54
  and
• 32:54
  people
• 32:55
  suggested
• 32:56
  this
• 32:57
  even
• 32:58
  post
• 32:59
  94.
• 33:00
  But
• 33:02
  we
• 33:02
  have
• 33:03
  a
• 33:03
  man
• 33:04
  who
• 33:05
  is
• 33:05
  super
• 33:05
  smart.
• 33:06
  But
• 33:06
  unfortunately,
• 33:08
  smartness
• 33:09
  and
• 33:09
  wisdom
• 33:10
  are
• 33:10
  not
• 33:11
  necessarily
• 33:12
  coexistent
• 33:13
  in
• 33:13
  some
• 33:14
  people.
• 33:15
  And
• 33:15
  so
• 33:16
  then
• 33:17
  President
• 33:18
  Tabumbegi
• 33:20
  refused
• 33:20
  to
• 33:20
  listen
• 33:21
  to
• 33:21
  any
• 33:21
  advice
• 33:21
  because
• 33:22
  he
• 33:22
  thought
• 33:22
  he
• 33:23
  knew
• 33:23
  everything
• 33:23
  that
• 33:24
  needed
• 33:24
  to
• 33:24
  be
• 33:24
  known.
• 33:25
  And
• 33:26
  that
• 33:26
  was
• 33:26
  science.
• 33:27
  So
• 33:28
  these
• 33:28
  were,
• 33:29
  it
• 33:29
  sounds
• 33:30
  like
• 33:30
  multidimensional
• 33:31
  failings,
• 33:32
  but
• 33:33
  at
• 33:33
  root
• 33:34
  they
• 33:34
  were
• 33:34
  very
• 33:35
  much
• 33:35
  human
• 33:35
  failings.
• 33:37
  And
• 33:37
  you're
• 33:38
  talking
• 33:38
  about
• 33:38
  ignorance,
• 33:39
  you're
• 33:40
  talking
• 33:40
  about.
• 33:41
  And
• 33:41
  subsequently,
• 33:42
  it
• 33:42
  sounds
• 33:42
  like
• 33:43
  the
• 33:43
  corruption
• 33:43
  that
• 33:44
  came
• 33:44
  in
• 33:44
  with
• 33:44
  that
• 33:44
  government.
• 33:45
  There
• 33:45
  was
• 33:45
  a
• 33:46
  lot
• 33:46
  of
• 33:46
  greed
• 33:46
  and
• 33:47
  so
• 33:47
  forth.
• 33:49
  How
• 33:50
  do
• 33:50
  you
• 33:50
  see
• 33:50
  the
• 33:52
  human
• 33:53
  elements
• 33:53
  here?
• 33:54
  What
• 33:55
  was
• 33:55
  missing
• 33:55
  and
• 33:55
  what
• 33:56
  can
• 33:56
  we
• 33:56
  learn
• 33:56
  from
• 33:57
  about
• 33:57
  what
• 33:58
  we
• 33:58
  need
• 33:58
  to.
• 33:58
  Capacities
• 33:59
  we
• 33:59
  need
• 34:00
  to
• 34:00
  develop?
• 34:00
  Because
• 34:00
  you
• 34:00
  gave.
• 34:01
  It
• 34:01
  was
• 34:01
  such
• 34:02
  a
• 34:02
  powerful
• 34:02
  story
• 34:03
  of
• 34:03
  the
• 34:03
  inner
• 34:04
  transformation
• 34:05
  you
• 34:05
  went
• 34:05
  through
• 34:06
  the
• 34:06
  empowerment
• 34:07
  that
• 34:07
  came
• 34:08
  and
• 34:08
  then
• 34:09
  the
• 34:09
  recognition
• 34:10
  this
• 34:11
  has
• 34:12
  to
• 34:12
  be
• 34:12
  extended
• 34:12
  in
• 34:12
  our
• 34:13
  lives
• 34:13
  and
• 34:14
  into
• 34:14
  the
• 34:14
  community.
• 34:15
  So
• 34:15
  I'm
• 34:16
  wondering
• 34:16
  what
• 34:17
  do
• 34:17
  you
• 34:17
  see
• 34:17
  as
• 34:17
  the
• 34:18
  human
• 34:18
  faults
• 34:19
  that
• 34:21
  led
• 34:21
  to
• 34:22
  the
• 34:22
  lack
• 34:23
  of
• 34:23
  success
• 34:23
  here?
• 34:25
  The
• 34:25
  human
• 34:26
  fault
• 34:26
  started
• 34:27
  with
• 34:28
  the
• 34:29
  focus
• 34:29
  on
• 34:30
  who
• 34:31
  is
• 34:31
  going
• 34:31
  to
• 34:32
  be
• 34:33
  in.
• 34:33
  Power,
• 34:34
  seduction
• 34:35
  of
• 34:35
  power,
• 34:35
  rather
• 34:36
  than
• 34:37
  how.
• 34:37
  Do
• 34:38
  we
• 34:38
  transform
• 34:39
  our
• 34:40
  society
• 34:41
  so
• 34:41
  that
• 34:41
  there
• 34:42
  is
• 34:42
  well
• 34:42
  being
• 34:43
  for.
• 34:43
  And
• 34:44
  so
• 34:44
  the
• 34:44
  black
• 34:45
  consciousness
• 34:46
  movement,
• 34:46
  instead
• 34:47
  of
• 34:47
  being
• 34:47
  seen
• 34:48
  as
• 34:48
  a
• 34:48
  catalyst
• 34:50
  for
• 34:51
  the
• 34:54
  spiritual
• 34:55
  and
• 34:55
  psychological
• 34:56
  liberation,
• 34:58
  which
• 34:58
  is
• 34:58
  essential
• 34:59
  if
• 34:59
  you
• 34:59
  have
• 35:00
  multi
• 35:01
  generational
• 35:02
  trauma,
• 35:02
  as
• 35:03
  South
• 35:03
  Africa
• 35:04
  and
• 35:04
  most
• 35:04
  of
• 35:04
  the
• 35:05
  continent
• 35:05
  had,
• 35:06
  you
• 35:06
  need
• 35:06
  to
• 35:07
  go
• 35:07
  through
• 35:07
  that
• 35:07
  and
• 35:08
  you
• 35:08
  are
• 35:08
  all
• 35:09
  schooled
• 35:09
  in
• 35:09
  this.
• 35:10
  But
• 35:12
  the
• 35:13
  likes
• 35:13
  of
• 35:13
  Tabon,
• 35:14
  Becky
• 35:14
  and
• 35:15
  many
• 35:15
  of
• 35:15
  the
• 35:16
  people
• 35:16
  who
• 35:16
  were
• 35:17
  not
• 35:17
  here
• 35:17
  when
• 35:17
  we
• 35:18
  were
• 35:18
  going
• 35:18
  through
• 35:18
  this
• 35:19
  process,
• 35:20
  they
• 35:20
  didn't
• 35:21
  attach
• 35:22
  much
• 35:22
  value
• 35:24
  to
• 35:24
  this
• 35:24
  consciousness
• 35:25
  race.
• 35:26
  They
• 35:26
  just
• 35:26
  saw
• 35:27
  us
• 35:27
  as
• 35:27
  upstarts
• 35:28
  who
• 35:28
  were
• 35:29
  disturbing
• 35:30
  the
• 35:30
  traditional
• 35:31
  liberation
• 35:32
  organizations.
• 35:34
  So
• 35:34
  it's
• 35:34
  short
• 35:35
  sightedness
• 35:36
  and
• 35:37
  the
• 35:37
  love
• 35:38
  of
• 35:39
  power
• 35:40
  that
• 35:41
  prevented
• 35:43
  the
• 35:43
  post
• 35:43
  1994
• 35:46
  leadership
• 35:47
  minus
• 35:47
  Mandela.
• 35:48
  And
• 35:49
  to
• 35:49
  his
• 35:49
  credit,
• 35:50
  and
• 35:51
  to
• 35:51
  their
• 35:51
  credit,
• 35:52
  people
• 35:52
  like
• 35:53
  Mr.
• 35:53
  Walter
• 35:53
  Sisulu,
• 35:54
  whom
• 35:55
  I
• 35:55
  also
• 35:55
  got
• 35:56
  to
• 35:56
  know,
• 35:56
  they
• 35:57
  understood,
• 35:57
  they
• 35:58
  were
• 35:58
  wise,
• 36:00
  they
• 36:00
  understood
• 36:01
  the
• 36:01
  power
• 36:02
  of
• 36:02
  this
• 36:03
  liberation
• 36:04
  of
• 36:04
  the
• 36:05
  mind
• 36:05
  and
• 36:06
  the
• 36:06
  spirit
• 36:06
  of
• 36:07
  people,
• 36:08
  so
• 36:08
  that
• 36:08
  they
• 36:09
  could
• 36:09
  assume
• 36:11
  the
• 36:11
  responsibilities
• 36:12
  of
• 36:12
  citizenship,
• 36:14
  not
• 36:14
  as
• 36:15
  vassals
• 36:16
  or
• 36:16
  as
• 36:16
  people
• 36:17
  to
• 36:18
  whom,
• 36:18
  as
• 36:18
  the
• 36:18
  ANC
• 36:19
  language
• 36:20
  says
• 36:20
  you
• 36:20
  can
• 36:21
  deliver.
• 36:22
  To
• 36:22
  what
• 36:23
  are
• 36:23
  you
• 36:23
  delivering?
• 36:24
  You
• 36:24
  are
• 36:24
  a
• 36:25
  servant
• 36:26
  of
• 36:26
  the
• 36:26
  people
• 36:27
  and
• 36:27
  not
• 36:28
  the
• 36:28
  master
• 36:29
  of
• 36:29
  the
• 36:29
  people.
• 36:30
  But
• 36:30
  that
• 36:31
  never
• 36:32
  got
• 36:32
  to
• 36:33
  be
• 36:33
  discussed
• 36:34
  in
• 36:34
  their
• 36:34
  ranks.
• 36:35
  And
• 36:35
  so
• 36:36
  we
• 36:36
  are
• 36:36
  the
• 36:37
  poorer
• 36:38
  for
• 36:38
  having
• 36:39
  lost
• 36:40
  out
• 36:40
  on
• 36:41
  the
• 36:41
  momentum
• 36:42
  of
• 36:42
  self
• 36:43
  liberation.
• 36:44
  But
• 36:44
  here's
• 36:44
  the
• 36:44
  good
• 36:45
  news.
• 36:47
  Young
• 36:47
  people
• 36:49
  have
• 36:49
  come
• 36:50
  to
• 36:50
  grips
• 36:51
  with
• 36:51
  the
• 36:51
  fact
• 36:51
  that
• 36:52
  this
• 36:52
  is
• 36:52
  not
• 36:53
  the
• 36:53
  freedom
• 36:54
  that
• 36:54
  they
• 36:54
  thought
• 36:55
  their
• 36:55
  country
• 36:56
  deserved.
• 36:58
  And
• 36:58
  we
• 36:58
  are
• 36:59
  seeing
• 36:59
  a
• 36:59
  resurgence
• 37:00
  of
• 37:00
  young
• 37:01
  people
• 37:02
  who
• 37:02
  are
• 37:02
  not
• 37:03
  wanting
• 37:03
  to
• 37:04
  replace
• 37:04
  the
• 37:04
  ANC
• 37:05
  in
• 37:05
  power.
• 37:06
  They
• 37:06
  want
• 37:08
  fundamental
• 37:08
  transformation
• 37:10
  of
• 37:10
  the
• 37:10
  country,
• 37:11
  including
• 37:12
  the
• 37:12
  politics
• 37:14
  that
• 37:16
  have
• 37:16
  now
• 37:16
  become
• 37:16
  so
• 37:17
  focused
• 37:17
  on
• 37:18
  parties
• 37:20
  to
• 37:20
  refocus
• 37:21
  politics
• 37:22
  on
• 37:22
  citizens
• 37:24
  as
• 37:24
  the
• 37:25
  sovereigns,
• 37:26
  the
• 37:27
  owners
• 37:27
  of
• 37:28
  the
• 37:28
  democracy.
• 37:29
  And
• 37:29
  all
• 37:30
  politics
• 37:31
  has
• 37:31
  to
• 37:31
  be
• 37:32
  about
• 37:33
  how
• 37:33
  do
• 37:34
  citizens
• 37:36
  want
• 37:36
  to
• 37:36
  see
• 37:37
  their
• 37:38
  role
• 37:38
  in
• 37:38
  shaping
• 37:39
  the
• 37:39
  future
• 37:40
  that
• 37:40
  they
• 37:41
  would
• 37:42
  like
• 37:42
  their
• 37:42
  grandchildren
• 37:43
  to
• 37:44
  enjoy.
• 37:45
  And
• 37:45
  so
• 37:46
  I'm
• 37:47
  here
• 37:47
  full
• 37:47
  of
• 37:48
  hope
• 37:48
  because
• 37:49
  I
• 37:49
  can
• 37:50
  see
• 37:50
  it.
• 37:51
  It
• 37:51
  may
• 37:51
  not
• 37:53
  necessarily
• 37:54
  get
• 37:54
  to
• 37:54
  the
• 37:55
  stage
• 37:55
  which
• 37:56
  we
• 37:56
  could
• 37:56
  have
• 37:57
  gotten
• 37:57
  to
• 37:57
  had
• 37:57
  we
• 37:58
  not
• 37:58
  lost
• 37:59
  these
• 37:59
  30
• 37:59
  years.
• 38:00
  And
• 38:00
  may
• 38:01
  I
• 38:01
  also
• 38:01
  add
• 38:02
  that
• 38:03
  the
• 38:03
  corruption
• 38:05
  that
• 38:05
  we
• 38:05
  have
• 38:05
  become
• 38:06
  world
• 38:06
  renowned
• 38:07
  for,
• 38:07
  including
• 38:08
  coining
• 38:09
  this
• 38:10
  state
• 38:11
  capture,
• 38:13
  comes
• 38:13
  from
• 38:14
  a
• 38:14
  people
• 38:15
  who
• 38:15
  are
• 38:16
  not
• 38:16
  liberated
• 38:17
  spiritually
• 38:18
  and
• 38:18
  mentally.
• 38:19
  There
• 38:20
  is
• 38:20
  no
• 38:20
  way,
• 38:21
  if
• 38:22
  you
• 38:22
  are
• 38:23
  a
• 38:25
  fully
• 38:26
  conscious
• 38:26
  human
• 38:27
  being
• 38:27
  and
• 38:28
  understand
• 38:28
  that
• 38:29
  to
• 38:29
  be
• 38:29
  human
• 38:29
  is
• 38:30
  to
• 38:30
  be
• 38:30
  relational.
• 38:32
  You
• 38:32
  are
• 38:33
  connected
• 38:33
  to
• 38:34
  others,
• 38:34
  you
• 38:34
  are
• 38:36
  interdependent
• 38:37
  with
• 38:37
  others,
• 38:38
  and
• 38:38
  you
• 38:38
  are
• 38:39
  part
• 38:39
  of
• 38:39
  the
• 38:39
  web
• 38:39
  of
• 38:40
  life.
• 38:40
  You
• 38:41
  cannot
• 38:41
  take
• 38:42
  away
• 38:43
  milk
• 38:44
  from
• 38:44
  the
• 38:44
  mouths
• 38:44
  of
• 38:45
  babies.
• 38:45
  You
• 38:45
  cannot
• 38:46
  take
• 38:46
  away
• 38:47
  money
• 38:47
  that's
• 38:47
  supposed
• 38:48
  to
• 38:48
  be
• 38:48
  building
• 38:49
  infrastructure
• 38:49
  for
• 38:50
  ordinary
• 38:50
  people.
• 38:51
  It
• 38:51
  happens
• 38:52
  because
• 38:52
  you
• 38:53
  have
• 38:54
  not
• 38:54
  yet
• 38:55
  become
• 38:56
  a
• 38:56
  free
• 38:57
  person
• 38:57
  who
• 38:57
  understands
• 38:58
  that
• 38:59
  what's
• 38:59
  important
• 39:00
  is
• 39:01
  to
• 39:01
  be
• 39:02
  more
• 39:03
  of
• 39:03
  whom
• 39:03
  you
• 39:04
  were
• 39:04
  created
• 39:04
  to
• 39:04
  be,
• 39:05
  and
• 39:05
  not
• 39:07
  having
• 39:08
  more,
• 39:09
  which
• 39:09
  is
• 39:09
  a
• 39:10
  sign
• 39:10
  of
• 39:10
  inner
• 39:11
  emptiness.
• 39:13
  Stay
• 39:13
  tuned
• 39:14
  for
• 39:14
  Part
• 39:14
  two,
• 39:14
  in
• 39:15
  which
• 39:15
  this
• 39:15
  dialogue
• 39:16
  expands
• 39:16
  to
• 39:17
  a
• 39:17
  global
• 39:17
  perspective
• 39:18
  and
• 39:18
  Mampila
• 39:19
  Ramphele
• 39:20
  explores
• 39:20
  the
• 39:21
  implications
• 39:21
  of
• 39:21
  apartheid
• 39:22
  for
• 39:22
  our
• 39:22
  global
• 39:23
  situation
• 39:24
  and
• 39:24
  contemporary
• 39:25
  global
• 39:25
  challenges.
• 39:26
  Today's
• 39:27
  episode
• 39:27
  was
• 39:28
  brought
• 39:28
  to
• 39:28
  you
• 39:28
  by
• 39:28
  Iwake
• 39:29
  Technologies.
• 39:30
  Visit
• 39:31
  the
• 39:31
  Deep
• 39:31
  Transformation
• 39:32
  website
• 39:32
  to
• 39:33
  find
• 39:33
  out
• 39:33
  more
• 39:33
  about
• 39:33
  ioWake's
• 39:34
  audio
• 39:34
  tools
• 39:35
  designed
• 39:36
  to
• 39:36
  wake
• 39:36
  us
• 39:36
  up,
• 39:37
  grow
• 39:37
  us
• 39:37
  up
• 39:37
  as
• 39:38
  a
• 39:38
  part
• 39:38
  of
• 39:38
  our
• 39:38
  daily
• 39:39
  deep
• 39:39
  transformational
• 39:40
  practice.
• 39:41
  Thank
• 39:42
  you
• 39:42
  for
• 39:42
  joining
• 39:42
  us.
• 39:43
  If
• 39:43
  you
• 39:43
  enjoyed
• 39:44
  this
• 39:44
  episode,
• 39:44
  please
• 39:45
  subscribe
• 39:45
  to
• 39:45
  the
• 39:46
  Deep
• 39:46
  Transformation
• 39:47
  podcast
• 39:47
  and
• 39:47
  we
• 39:48
  greatly
• 39:48
  appreciate
• 39:48
  your
• 39:49
  comments,
• 39:49
  suggestions
• 39:50
  and
• 39:51
  questions.
• 39:52
  Thank
• 39:52
  you
• 39:52
  for
• 39:53
  all
• 39:53
  you
• 39:53
  are
• 39:54
  and
• 39:54
  all
• 39:54
  you
• 39:54
  do
• 39:55
  from
• 39:55
  John
• 39:56
  Roger
• 39:56
  and
• 39:57
  the
• 39:57
  Deep
• 39:57
  Transformation
• 39:58
  Team.
• 40:07
  SA.