Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 231. Defining Your Nonprofit's Brand Purpose + How to Bring It to Life - Rob Feakins

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231. Defining Your Nonprofit's Brand Purpose + How to Bring It to Life - Rob Feakins · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Becky Endicott: Hey, I'm John.
• 0:01
  Becky Endicott: And I'm Becky.
• 0:03
  Jonathan McCoy: And this is the we are for good podcast.
• 0:06
  Becky Endicott: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:15
  Jonathan McCoy: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:23
  Becky Endicott: So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:34
  Jonathan McCoy: So let's get started. Becky, how are you?
• 0:38
  Becky Endicott: Welcome, everybody, we got a storyteller on the podcast. So I am extremely excited and happy today.
• 0:44
  Jonathan McCoy: You like stole it right out of my head. Cuz I'm like that. Sorry, storytellers.
• 0:46
  Jonathan McCoy: This is this is just really the best. And I think this season, the stories that are really captivating us are people that kind of have had different chapters of their life. And I love when people channel their expertise, especially when they've, you know, poured their heart and soul into the for profit sector have learned how to do something really incredible. But then just have this mindset that they want to channel that to really change the world, and to partner with organizations and with missions and with ideas that could be disruptive in that way. And today, I feel like we have the torchbearer of all. From that standpoint. We're talking to rob Deakins with us today. He's the founder of for all humankind.
• 1:23
  Jonathan McCoy: And he has has had this really incredible, illustrious career, I would say, in the advertising world and worked with, I could list the brands that he has worked with. And it's just the most incredible pedigree, but he's won so many awards, has worked with companies like BMW, and four seasons, and Volvo and Hilton and his channel, that ability to really connect with customers, and really wanted to make a hard pivot to be able to connect advocates, allies, people that could partner with your mission, and activating them through storytelling. And so he is a videographer. In that sense. He is filmmaker in that sense. And he just channels all that creativity into driving engagement. And so we're going to learn how to storytel the way that Rob storytellers and just create connection and activate people. So Rob, I cannot wait for this conversation. We've been so excited to see you.
• 2:12
  Jonathan McCoy: Thanks for being on the podcast.
• 2:13
  Rob Feakins: Thanks for having me. I'm really excited about being here. So thank you. Well, it's our honor.
• 2:17
  Jonathan McCoy: Would you kind of tell us your story, you know, talk about, you know, the days growing up and kind of what took you to the hard pivot to really serve the for good sector?
• 2:27
  Rob Feakins: Yeah. So I grew up in a family of six kids, my five brothers and sisters and my grandfather, who was a type two diabetic and had both legs amputated. He lived with us and my grandmother lived with us for a while. And certainly both my parents were I would call charitable people. And they would make us all volunteer four hours a week. During high school, it was New Jersey, it was a time in my life. And in an era where there was just a lot of partying, and concerts to go out and stuff like that. And the last thing I wanted to do was be a junior corpsman in a hospital on a Friday night. Volunteering, right. And so at the time, honestly, I kind of hated it.
• 3:12
  Rob Feakins: And I hated that my, my mom made me do it. But I was also on the Red Cross disaster crew. And I remember going to Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania to dig out mud from basements and whatnot. And that had an impression on me to see what a flood could do to a city.
• 3:29
  Rob Feakins: And fast forward in college, I thought it was going to be a teacher. So I went to sign up for a program through college where I went to the Flathead Indian Reservation, and I was one of maybe three Caucasians out of 300 Native Americans. And it was the first time my life had been a minority. And it was truly life changing to spend time with people who had I would say had been passed, passed on and pass through from an educational point of view. And we are simply teaching them to try to get their GED and have math skills so that they can figure out if they're being paid correctly. Any help fast forward through my advertising career as an advertising for about 30 years. And I always loved doing pro bono work. I mean, I loved all my clients work, but I really enjoyed pro bono, and I always had tore my agency, I always say, you know, we're citizens. You know, we're not just add people, we're citizens, and we owe it. And because we have a skill set in communication, we owe it to our community or city, the people around us to be advocates and, and so advocacy was really something that as a word struck me early on in terms of what advertising could do in the pro pro bono sphere. And honestly, towards the end of the career, it was the stuff that moved me the most and frankly, we had a lot of billion dollar brands in house and you can't find a billion dollar brand these days that doesn't do cause work. So the cost work of those billion dollar brands, helping them create their mission statements.
• 5:04
  Rob Feakins: And then doing the pro bono work really was the stuff that motivated me the most, you know, our agency brought Citi Bike to New York City, something that the most successful public bike share program in the world, you know, New Yorkers, it was thought you couldn't bring a bike share program in New York City. Well, in the first year, New Yorkers wrote to the equivalent of the moon and back 10 times, I believe that we also did the first PSA to hit the YouTube top 10 leaderboard, which was completely had no paid media and had a million organic views. And I was on the Facebook creative Council. And so all of that, if you put in a blender kind of drove me to, you know, I was part of an agency that went from 200 people to 800 people in eight years, and I was just honestly, as presidents and chief creative officer, I was kind of burnt out, after eight years, took time off, thought I would travel for a little little bit and figure out what I should do when I got cancer. And so that took up about a year, certainly battling that and had a huge impact. And when I just came back, I was just like, No, I don't want to do the same old job, I'm gonna take all this mixture of skills and experiences I've had, and try to help those who need the most, you know, the the nonprofits and the charities, and I was long overdue, in being, I think, personally, individually committed to something like that. And so that's what I decided to do. I didn't know how I would do it. You know, having been on the Facebook creative Council, I just know how important content was in the nonprofit sphere. And I, I took it upon myself, at first I was helping them with and I still do a little bit, help them with their mission statements and stuff. But then I actually got involved in terms of shooting, photographing, and filming my first couple of films, I shot with a production company. And at lunchtime, a client came up to me and said, well, the only reason we're spending this much is is because it's our fundraiser, and I knew right then in there, I'd have to become a one man band, because they couldn't afford all those day rates. And it was important to me that they weren't just doing films for fundraisers, but they were creating a content calendar. And so that they are creating advocates and reaching out to them and communicating with them. And so that's when I went off and try to really become an independent filmmaker, photographer for charities,
• 7:23
  Jonathan McCoy: where, you know, talking to some marketers disguised as fundraisers here, and this is one of our bailiwick's that, you know, a lot of times he's, you put so many resources into making this perfect video for this audience that lives in one room one night, and you never use it to its full potential and really think about how it leaves the walls. And so I love that you're challenging organizations to do that. Because so many are guilty of this. I'm gonna say 99% of people listening are probably guilty of that. And so what a what a cool thing to unlock.
• 7:52
  Becky Endicott: And I have to give a shout out to the hero of this conversation from my vantage point, Mrs. Deakins, Mama Figgins. Thank you for getting little Rob out in getting him serving. Because I really think even if you weren't ready at that time, I just think having your feet wet and having those lived experiences and having the connection point to mission and seeing something on the front lines changes you in a way. And I know we have a we have a dear mutual friend, and Cheryl railer Hauser, so she's in another amazing documentary filmmaker. But the thing that I love so much about what you do is, you say that charities and nonprofits, they typically can't afford a really big production company, and it's very intimidating for them. And so your goal was really to come in and create an intimate and safe environment where you can tell the story beautifully and safely and do it with dignity. And I think that is such a core base of ethical storytelling as you're beginning to share mission work. And so I want to kind of pour into that at the front end. And I want to talk about just creating a brand purpose and I think this is really your sweet spot. Can you walk us through some key steps where nonprofits could start this journey as they're starting to create their brand promise as it relates to their how they show up on video and not just video? I would say in every part of their business.
• 9:25
  Rob Feakins: Yeah. You know, the the world that communications fear is so different now. Then when we start when I started, you know, and it used to be what is your brand guideline book.
• 9:37
  Rob Feakins: And that was simply fonts and logos and standards, manual outlets and things of that nature. Right? You know what I watched my daughter's you know, how they interact with brands and even how I interact with brands. Now, I think people are very judgmental and critical in a good way of what the brand they're putting on their back stands for and you know, I'm a huge fan of Patagonia, not only because of the product they create, but the way that Yvonne has, has taken on issues like saving Bears Ears in Utah and whatnot, doing recyclable materials in his own product line, you get a Patagonia catalog, it's like reading five short stories. It's not your typical, just here's the jacket and the sizes, I think, because people judge what they're wearing and how they're interacting. They don't want to just buy a brand anymore. They don't want to just buy something off the shelf they want to buy into. And there's been great studies, you know, Forrester did a study that if you had to exact products on a shelf, let's say there was dishwashing detergent, and you knew that Dawn actually did Dawn saves wildlife and has a huge initiative around wildlife, you're 70 80% more likely to pick that brand that has caused work. So how do you do it? And why should you do and I always say to the people used to think brand purposes and brand manifestos were for brands like apple. Yeah. And I gotta tell you, I did one for Sharmin for toilet paper. And I think regardless of what you do, you need a purpose and a mission, and you need to live it. So how do you begin, I've done brand mission statements and brand purposes, that took six weeks.
• 11:17
  Rob Feakins: But today, knowing how pressure cooked nonprofits are, I can do one in a day, I'd say the number one thing is you got to get all the stakeholders in a room, you cannot have the CEO, waltz in at the end of five weeks, look at something he's not been a part of. And I contributed to and expect that brand purpose to work. So where do you begin?
• 11:38
  Rob Feakins: Number one? Let's go on to the brand attic. Okay, you've been around? Let's say your brand has been around for 20 years? What were some of the things in your brand attic? Historically, it could be graphically. It could be days that you had with customers, it could be a customer experience? What were the things that stand out? What are the top 10? And now let's pull out skillsets. From those top 10 Going forward, you had a marketing? What are the five best days at work last year?
• 12:08
  Rob Feakins: What happened? What happened during those five days? Let's, let's pull it out. Let's find out what exactly made you happy and charge to come into work?
• 12:19
  Rob Feakins: How about when you didn't want to come to work? What were some of the reasons why you didn't want to come to work? Alright, now let's look at what if your brand didn't exist with the world care? Let's say your brand is going to exist? Why should the world care. And so we go through like I don't know, 10 to 15, exercises like that. And then at the end, you try to create what I would what I would always try to do is make the room write a statement, write a three paragraph brand statement, which then has to be boiled down to is critical. You can't get let anyone get away with this.
• 12:52
  Rob Feakins: You have to boil it down to a brand purpose of one sentence.
• 12:55
  Rob Feakins: Why do you exist? Apple, we think there's a creative person and every person. Nike, we think there's an athlete and every single one of us Sharman, we want to take something that's uncomfortable and make it comfortable. And then once you have that brand purpose and statement, then I think what you have to do is activated and by the way, I think a brand purpose should challenge the organization, but not be so elevated that you can ever achieve it. There is nothing worse than having a brand mission and statement that an organization fails to me because of management, whatever reason finances, it's debilitating. I think that statement needs to be on the walls for the organization, you need to walk by it physically, every single day. So again, but a brand purpose and a brand statement is nothing if you don't activate it. So let's take a very simple brand statement. So Nike, I've run a couple marathons, I've run a lot of half marathons when I started, I was like an ASICs user or Hoka user, and I became a Nike user for two reasons.
• 14:08
  Rob Feakins: One, they created an app that helped me find the athlete in me, well, there's not much of an athlete, but help me.
• 14:18
  Rob Feakins: So treasure in me that would help me run and get me to run a marathon. They had training at my local Nike store, I could go jogging with the Nike employees, and then I started to buy the Nike gear. So they got me by living that mission statement of you're an athlete too. You may not think you are but you're an athlete, too. So let's go down to Sharmin. Their mission statement is something akin to, let's say something comfortable making it comfortable. So their products are soft toilet paper, right? Or strong. These are comfortable products that you can use. But then how do they activate it? The first thing that they did it was during a really busy shopping season they opened up to bathrooms in Times Square. And it was like this kind of Lollapalooza bathrooms he walked in, there was music blasting, there was a band playing, every bathroom had its own theme. Then later on, they did stuff like they would go to the they worked for the NFL, and they go outside to stadiums during the season. Because that one of the issues is people don't have bathrooms outside the stadium. So they bring in these amazing bathrooms that people could use prior to the game. So that's activating a brand, you know, all the way around, whether it's Nike or Sharmin.
• 15:33
  Rob Feakins: And I think if you don't activate your brand, then why have a purpose. And you've got to activate it through either your product, and through your causes, all the way through the line, just like Patagonia does.
• 15:47
  Jonathan McCoy: I mean, this is why I love people like you moving into this sector, because it's so evolved. And you know, what I think is fascinating. As you're listing these examples, these are all brands that we all know, love, understand. But we've never heard that promise or the purpose. But we know it, you know, in our hearts, like, Oh, I know that to be true, because they've aligned their marketing and the way they storytelling, their products, all of it.
• 16:13
  Becky Endicott: And even to the Nike point, the way that they didn't just perpetuate the brand to sell a product. They created community. They created resources. It wasn't just about the shoe or the apparel, it was about the experience, and where can you go, and where can you connect. And I think that translates to, to nonprofit, because anybody can make a difference in this world, you can show up, you don't even have to make a gift to be able to affect the change you want to see in the world. And I love the way that you're illuminating that through brand promise, do you not feel a little guilty, John, like we're just having this conversation for us, because we're so loved out over this topic. As marketers, it's so interesting,
• 16:58
  Rob Feakins: though, the one last thing I'd add, and I forgot to say it is I think your brand purpose should be very human. So you know, making you uncomfortable, comfortable.
• 17:08
  Rob Feakins: There's an athlete in you, Becky and John and even rob, Target, which I loved was one of my favorite brands and I got to work on, they didn't have a brand purpose on the wall. And they didn't even have a brand book. But it was understood within the organization that the their brand purpose was, we believe in the democratization of style, that regardless of who you are, and what your income is, and what your financials, you know, situation is that you should be able to afford style.
• 17:37
  Rob Feakins: And I'll never forget this, you know, they would ship us product all the time to the agency. And we would do little newspaper ads in the New York Times for some of the funnier products. And one time we got sent a flyswatter.
• 17:48
  Rob Feakins: And so here's this beautifully designed flyswatter for 499 by Michael Graves, and that's just a flyswatter that's not the clothing apparel, that's not the you know, the furnishings and all that stuff that's just a flyswatter. So, everywhere in their product line, they believed in that democratization of style.
• 18:11
  Jonathan McCoy: And to me it points back to we did a whole series on donor engagement recently and it's like small things matter target having that 499 flyswatter does something that you know that when you go there you can find style for any budget. I mean, like it's like the it's planting those seeds by doing the small things that matter and everything you mentioned, it was kind of a small thing in the grand scheme of life but it contributed to people buying in and and wanting to invest in I love when you said buy into brands. I mean, that's a powerful thought. Our donors buying into our mission with their recurring giving or whatever way that they're connecting with us. Hey, friends, this episode is presented by virtuous and they just happen to be one of our favorite companies. Let me tell you why. You know, we believe everyone matters. And we've witnessed the greatest philanthropic movements happen when you see and activate donors at every level. And here's the thing, virtuous created a fundraising platform to help you do just that. It's much more than nonprofit CRM. Virtuous is committed to helping charities reimagine generosity through responsive fundraising, which is simply putting the donor at the center of fundraising, growing giving through personalized donor journeys, and by helping you respond to the needs of every individual. We love it because this approach builds trust and loyalty through personalized engagement. Sound like virtuous may be a fit for your organization. Learn more today@virtuous.org or follow the link in our show notes.
• 19:42
  Jonathan McCoy: Taking a quick pause from today's episode to thank our sponsor, slingshot group, our friends over at slingshot group partner with nonprofits to recruit and hire great leaders build remarkable teams and unleash your missions potential.
• 19:53
  Jonathan McCoy: You know, we talk often about how much your organization's culture matters, especially today and not just being a place that attracts talent, but also becomes a magnet to connecting donors to your mission.
• 20:02
  Jonathan McCoy: Slingshot group is the organization we trust to help you do just that. It's so much more than a staffing and executive search firm, slingshot group goes deep and get to know your culture. So they can help you find the leaders and staff who will take your mission to the next level. Sound like slingshot group might be a fit for your organization. Learn more today at slingshot group.org, or follow the link in our show notes.
• 21:00
  Becky Endicott: And I want to know, how do you bridge this idea of your brand promise? How do you make it relatable to our nonprofit listeners? Where can they start? Because to me, I feel like they have a leg up on this is a place we are accelerated beyond for profit, because we're already in the mission work. So where's a good starting place of where a nonprofit could begin to do this inner work and start to build and perpetuate this brand promise through all of their offerings?
• 21:30
  Rob Feakins: Yeah, well, I think the number one thing for me is I sometimes think nonprofits don't consider themselves a commercial business. And I think they have to realize they're in serious competition, you know, particularly, you know, now with the, you know, with how people are being hurt, financially and whatnot, and struggling a bit, you know, you know, I do work with a couple of veterans organizations. And I gotta tell you, if you look across the country, there must be over 100 nonprofits that only deal with veterans, whether they're dealing with homeless veterans or helping them seek adventure or what have you. So they're in competition, just, you know, within that tiny sector, much less the bigger nonprofit pool and where are we going to put our charitable dollars this year? So number one, think of yourself as a business that's frankly, in kind of a ruthless competition. And, you know, start acting like that start understanding what's at stake, to try to differentiate yourself. That's what major brands do all the time. What's our unique selling proposition?
• 22:39
  Rob Feakins: What what is it that makes our brand different from another brand? You know, I was very lucky to work on Volvo and Volvo clearly staked out safety early on now other people have caught up to them. This a brand that helped invent the seatbelt. And they did the safety cage, then they did the airbag, then they did decide airbag. Then they did stuff like I was in the offices of Volvo. In New Jersey, when Sweden called up and decided that they were going to take ashtrays out of the cars. North America, Volvo flipped out.
• 23:11
  Rob Feakins: They're like, how are we going to sell a car? I mean, this is back in 1996. How are we going to sell a car without an ashtray? But that's what Volvo believed in, right? That they believed in that life about you living and enjoying life. So anyhow, my point being find a unique selling proposition. If you can separate yourself out, then I think you need to look at your Do you have a mission statement, really you think you do, maybe you think it's you, maybe you're being assumptive about it within the organization. But maybe you need to write one maybe really need to say, this is what we do for veterans versus other people.
• 23:50
  Rob Feakins: This is why we come to work every day. So write a brand purpose, then you need to communicate it, and you need to create advocates around that.
• 23:56
  Rob Feakins: But my big thing is, you already have help and expertise and fundraising. But you also need a lot of help in advocacy. And what I always say is issue raising, you've got your fundraising, I'm here to help you with issue raising, I'm here to tell you, and and, and help you explore what you've done in terms of solving the issues of the world. So that people become advocates, then start to create a content calendar, start to create work that's inspirational, that people want to share that want to join in, and expand your company behind beyond the four walls to all the people out there on social media today. So try to use you know, all the algorithms and and benefits of film and photography, but mostly film that will engage people and help them share it and become your advocate and promote you and what you stand for, you know, expand your employee base almost to all the world out there on social media.
• 25:03
  Jonathan McCoy: Yeah, I mean, you're you're hitting the nail on the head of some of our deepest values of where we see people really plugging in this year, investing in digital investing in this digital community that you can grow it breaks on the walls, I mean, the walls aren't there. So why are we you know, keeping content to ourselves. So we you kind of go deeper on this when you've created some incredibly viral content. And I think that's easy to come up from a board member want you to create a viral video or something like this. Break it down for us, you know, how do you take that brand promise and start to really translate it into content that has the potential to go viral? What are some of the trappings of that?
• 25:38
  Rob Feakins: Yeah, I think you know, you know, I've used the word content already, probably 15 times since conversation, I hate it. Because it sounds like stuff, you know, let's say I'm gonna hire a Content Manager, what if in my head, I said, I'm going to hire an inspirational manager, this person good and be in charge of inspiring all of our donors, or potential donors or followers? And by the way, let's not look down and followers. You know, the followers are as important as donors absence. So think of how you're going to inspire followers who might later on become donors. Let's stop putting the priority just on the big donors. Of course, they're important, I can't neglect that.
• 26:20
  Rob Feakins: But I think you also need to start to create followers. And, and I wished nonprofits talked about followers as much as I did donors. Okay, so then the content I think, has to be incredibly human. You know, I, I couldn't possibly tell you what makes something viral, I've made stuff I thought would be viral, and it wasn't. And I made stuff that I thought was pretty good and became viral. I think one, I think the best work that becomes viral taps into something happening and culture at that time, whether it's below the surface or above the surface, you know, having a vision of, of what a world could be, is a, you know, the potential and possibility is always a great place to find viral work. Our agency did a spot for the anti Defamation League called Imagine a world without hate. The team negotiated with Yoko Ono and got the song Imagine. And then the idea was, what if all those people who had been assassinated through hate crimes, were still alive? Were never assassinated?
• 27:31
  Rob Feakins: What if Martin Luther King was alive today? What would he have been? Like? What if Daniel Pearl, that journalist who was assassinated was still alive?
• 27:41
  Rob Feakins: What of Anne Frank was still alive? What would the world be like if all these and so it was just a very simple film, showing these people who were still alive and what they were now doing against this track of imagine, had no paid media. And that film got a million independent views, unique views by day 10. How we promoted that is we different people, different opinions about this, but we would tweet at people.
• 28:08
  Rob Feakins: Some people can get offended by that. But Lena Dunham put out a tweet that said, you know, watch this film, you'll cry all over your chest. And just the way that she can express herself at praise, cry all over your chest by Lena Dunham, you know, Moby tweeted it. So a bunch of different celebrities and journalist tweeted that film.
• 28:29
  Rob Feakins: And that's how we got on the YouTube top 10 leaderboard.
• 28:32
  Rob Feakins: That's how it got to a million independent views in 10 days. So I think embracing culture, embracing hope, is oftentimes can help. But it's really hard to figure out how stuff can become viral.
• 28:47
  Becky Endicott: I do like this suggestion, though, of don't fight the current go with the current and I and I think just as nonprofits, we're professionals, we're so busy, we have so many irons in the fire all the time, we're trying to juggle all the things we're learning tech, and how to be better at Tech. And sometimes the things that we don't understand are the things that we resist. And I love the idea of kind of let go, let yourself go into this. And if you're listening very well. And if you have that solid brand, you're already going to have what we call rabid fans, people who will not let your mission fail. They you are not out there on an island with your mission, you actually have a massive community behind you. And they are not necessarily just donors to your point. Their followers, they're lurkers, they're people who are trying to understand who you are and how you align. I mean, I love in your photo that you send us your headshot, you're wearing Patagonia. It's like already, I understand your alignment. And so I just think this conversation has really shifted the lens for me on how we can elevate these things. And I think some key themes I'm hearing is the vulnerability, the authenticity, the raw nature of what we do. And we can use it to galvanize movements to do things beyond just fundraising.
• 30:14
  Becky Endicott: And John and I talk about this all the time on the podcast, because one of our core values is we're here to build believers. We're not here to just work donors, believers are going to take your mission far beyond what you have set up and your KPIs because their passion is absolutely limitless.
• 30:33
  Rob Feakins: I thought it said The other thing too is that, you know, clients always when I come to them talking about a film, they always go, that's a nice to have. And I always go, it's not a nice to have, you have to have it. They're there. They're just ways that we absorb information film is better. You know, there's studies that show, you know, you retain anywhere from 85 to 90% of a message when watching a video, versus only 10 to 20% when reading that text.
• 31:00
  Rob Feakins: So just when you absorb information, it's a better communication device. Video was shared, you know, video can increase social content conversations by 80%. The algorithms I can remember sitting in Facebook, in 2014, and 13, hearing how they were going to push the algorithms on Instagram, and Facebook towards video. And lo and behold, look at your Instagram feed now.
• 31:28
  Rob Feakins: Yeah. And then video creates action, you know, 40% of consumers act in some fashion after watching a video on social media. So that action could be they could like it, they could share it, but they're going to act 40%. And the best example I can give is I reached out to a charity in in Tanzania incredible charity Grumeti fund.
• 31:49
  Rob Feakins: And I was following them on Instagram, they did a post of a woman by the name of grace, who was a seamstress. And I go, you know, this is a great post in I'd love to know more about grace, but I actually think it'd be a better film. Well, six months later, I was in Tanzania, and they had me filming grace.
• 32:10
  Rob Feakins: During the filming, we actually found out she had been a poacher, because she had to poach to protect her family and support her family shot to film on her house. She's now a seamstress and kind of a fashion designer in a way. And Tanzania, Tanzania as a single mom. And that film got 600 times in the engagement of the original photographic post. There's real business reasons not artistic, business reasons to shoot film and to share film.
• 32:44
  Becky Endicott: It goes back to what you said earlier, Rob, which is it's human. And with video, nothing is more human than a video when you can see someone's face when you can hear their voice break, when you can see pain, joy, fear all of those things, because we recognize ourselves in those emotions. And we always say at the apex of that emotion is when we want the connection to happen. And so I love this conversation. And I just think it's really challenging for all of us to kind of think about, we can't be in the scarcity mindset of a video cost too much, we can't create a production piece for that look at Charity Water, they literally took a high quality video, and it launched an incredible movement for them and did it again with their monthly giving program, which now earns about $20 million a year. So there you go.
• 33:37
  Jonathan McCoy: This is mindset shifting, obviously. And I think the way that you should approach this and invest, but would you kind of talk a little bit to about just your perspective of how you storytel ethically, you know, this is something we really put a lens on just because it is trauma for some people to have to go back in the recesses to tell their story.
• 33:57
  Jonathan McCoy: And I think the way that they're presented and showing up with dignity. I mean, it's been threaded through so many conversations this season and leading up to this moment. How do you do that as a filmmaker?
• 34:04
  Jonathan McCoy: And what are some of the ways that you could advise people to better storytelling that way?
• 34:11
  Rob Feakins: Well, I think first of all, don't use the CEO or head of marketing to tell your story. And I know that most of the CEOs in this sphere are incredibly media ready. Because you know, they they've stood up in a fundraiser, many clients don't have to do that. Standing up at a fundraiser in a room in front of 200 people 1000 people's a tough job. And so those people are very polished, really good at telling their mission statement, because they've helped to write it, hopefully. But they're just really polished at fundraising.
• 34:48
  Rob Feakins: And so the inclination sometimes is to use a CEO or someone from marketing. I always think that's a big mistake. It's a dirty secret. For all of us who come out of advertising and have done creative work and dramatic funny commercials that got into can and stuff is that deep down, we know that third party endorsement, or a peer to peer endorsement is 10 times more effective than any funny, dramatic commercial. So number one, I always say, you know, if you want to be authentic, the authentic way to be authentic is to really have the people that you've helped tell the story about what you did for them on third terms, you know, and so when I interview and when I shoot, one of the things I do is I want to make sure that it's third truth. And that third truth, not the organization's. But what the organization did for them. Third Truth will inspire. So the first thing I do is I sit down with clients, we go through potential stories. Here's this woman who was a poacher, and is now a seamstress. God, she's great, we got to do that one. Here's this guy who dug a hole with a bulldozer and created a fish pond and now has 20,000 fish.
• 35:59
  Rob Feakins: What do you do before you know what's the story arc for him? So we go through that, and then I meet them. And oftentimes, I kinda like to meet them alone, without the organization, but I'm certainly happy to do it with the organization. I do it both ways. But the one thing I want to do is, before I film, I want to meet them, because I want them to be comfortable with me. I don't want to film someone who doesn't want to, you know, take questions for me, or, for some reason, just doesn't connect. And I want to feel comfortable with them and make sure I get to understand their story. without the pressure of cameras, and lights and all that stuff. Let's have a conversation. Second thing I did, you know, the reason why I'm a one man band was one for financial reasons for charity.
• 36:41
  Rob Feakins: So they only pay one day, right?
• 36:45
  Rob Feakins: Versus a crew, but I wanted to be comfortable in intimate because I knew I was gonna be shooting tough stuff. I mean, the first film I shot was for hospice, and it was about a couple that lost their 13 year old daughter, well, I did an interview with them. Everything was great. Two days later, I show up with my camera. And, and it was a struggle, it was a struggle for for the wife in particular, to tell the story.
• 37:11
  Rob Feakins: And, you know, people asked me what your crew and I go, were telling me because I wanted wanted to be intimate, comfortable. But that day, I did have a social worker. And I had the social worker of that couple. So that's a case of where I want people to feel safe. I want pigs I think when you feel state safe, you're going to tell your, your story more impactfully and but also just is a common courtesy. You know, I want people to feel safe. And so having a social worker at times, is something that you can do. Just being making it one on one is something that you can do. I don't force anyone to answer any questions. You know, it's it's understood in the interview, before we even go shoot the you know, where I'm getting to know them, I say, there's a question, you know, like, don't answer. If you don't like any of the questions, don't answer them, you know, I'm not gonna force you to tell a story that you don't want to impact the way going in with a list of like, 20 questions is probably the worst way to interview. Agreed. And it's exactly the way I used to interview from then I changed how I, I would ask questions in an interview. You know, I would just simply say, tell me how you got here today? I mean, physically, I mean, what's your life? Tell me the progression of your life? How? How did you arrive where we are today, right now talking to you? What's happened? What do you hope happens, and let them tell the story versus you imposing yourself. And I think the other thing that I would say is, there's no independent voiceover ever, in my films, I won't allow it, I've never done it. So you, I might be shooting B roll, and you're seeing grace, making a dress, but you're hearing Grace's voice, I'm not going to bring in a voiceover that even celebrity, I'm not going to bring in a celebrity voiceover that's going to come in and speak over what Grace's life and what Grace has done. I want to, I think we should hear from Grace, I might have a statistic at the end of the film, about what the organization has done for people like Grace, which I think is important. But I don't want that independent video, kind of leaving the storyline.
• 39:20
  Rob Feakins: And then the very last thing is, you know, I get to know these people. And sometimes, you know, I remain friends and contacts and I try to get them a rough cut before it airs. Obviously, they're not approving the rough cut, as much as the client is that's the clients, you know, duty and job and responsibility in the great edit. They know they know what they need. But I want you know, particularly if we're going to show up at a fundraiser, I want that person who see what's the film going to be shown at, you know, minute 50, you know, and how are they going to feel about how they're portrayed, I want them to feel okay, about how they're portrayed. And, and by the way, there is nothing better than hearing a crowd cheer a story.
• 40:02
  Rob Feakins: And then that person stands up in the audience. I'm not seeing any gratitude for how they react to the film, The reacting to the story of that person. And I think that's for me, it's just incredibly moving. And I just think that would set them for the person right now. You know, it's only helped them more, but that's kind of how I approach filmmaking.
• 40:23
  Becky Endicott: Your ethos is so focused to me that the human is at the center of the story, and that there's no distraction and white noise And I think to the ethical storytelling point, there is so much dignity in putting someone at the very front and allowing them to go at their pace, and allowing them to use their words, and to not feed them what you think the story needs to be this concept of letting go is something that I've had to learn. As a storyteller, I used to come in with my list, you know, and I don't really do that anymore.
• 41:01
  Becky Endicott: either. I do my research before.
• 41:01
  Becky Endicott: And I might have two or three questions. But if the conversation is so natural, you're just kind of prodding them along and gently moving them through these arcs. And that, again, is going to make them feel so much more comfortable. And the last pro tip I want to throw on here is make sure that you're moving with expressed intent. Tell them how you're going to use you plan to use this video, make sure it's okay with them. I mean, we want to dignify the fact that many people have had trauma. And some of them to John's point are reliving this trauma. And if we can say this is how we're thinking about using this, does that feel good to you? You know, does does your family want to pour into that because we'd love you to make some edits. And we want this to be a code build. So I could go off clearly on a rabbit trail for this forever, but I love it very much.
• 41:55
  Jonathan McCoy: We would be remiss not to ask the ultimate storyteller, if there's a story of philanthropy, that really stuck with you in your career or your life. Maybe it dates back to going to the hospital for four hours on a Friday night.
• 42:07
  Rob Feakins: I think the one thing so I don't talk about it a lot. But I've been a hospice volunteer for six years. And I did that because coming out of cancer, I, I felt a lot of gratitude. And I wanted to give back. And so I typed in cancer into volunteer calm and up came hospice and was kind of actually irritated because cancer means certain death. And so I didn't like the idea of hospice work.
• 42:35
  Rob Feakins: And I was distrustful, but I met regional hospice, and I love the head of volunteers. And I felt like you know what, I've just gone through this really tough corporate career. And this can make me make me a little bit more human again, quite honestly, how am I going to do this and not become a little bit more human? So I went off, and I did this, and I have so many great encounters with people.
• 43:02
  Rob Feakins: But one, in particular stood up stood out there was a woman in Yale Smilow cancer hospital, who was in hospice care. And I was late, I rushed in, I didn't look at the log book. I just knew she was in room 132. And well, the logbook would have told me she doesn't want any volunteers. So I go rushing in there like an idiot. And I opened the door and she looked at me, she glared at me and her son was there. And I said, Hi, I'm Rob your, your volunteer. And she just had this kind of harsh look. I looked at her and I said, you know, you just look, you look really strong. And she looked at me for a second, and then her expression changed. And she said, that's about the nicest thing you could say to someone in my position. And I said, we just look really fierce. And I think you're gonna handle this battle really well. And we got to know each other over the course of the week. And she had read led a really interesting life. She had helped work on the Woodstock concert festival. She she left home when she was 17.
• 44:06
  Rob Feakins: went to New York City. She became a someone who painted cowboy boots and boots and sold them via Donna Qur'an. And she had this really interesting life, but she was crying one day saying that, you know, she had missed the boat on the internet.
• 44:22
  Rob Feakins: So I go home that night, she had a really interesting name. And so I said, I got to Google. I can't say her name because the HIPAA rules but I got to Google this name. So I googled it. And I found this little paragraph in New York Magazine. That said here was this woman with hand painted skating boots that would show up every Wednesday at woman skating rink, and skate. You could come meet her and buy these hand painted skating boots. I get this got to be her.
• 44:51
  Rob Feakins: So I kind of Xerox it, brought it to Kinkos and put it on photographic paper and I framed it. I went to see her that day.
• 45:00
  Rob Feakins: I put it in her lap. And she read it and she started crying.
• 45:04
  Rob Feakins: She just said you found me. You found me. She couldn't stop saying you know you found me.
• 45:07
  Rob Feakins: And you know we sometimes you know look at the negativity of social media and how we need to see ourselves but I think this is really a case of where a woman wanted to be validated.
• 45:19
  Rob Feakins: And I think that little gesture and I left it for her son on the dresser in her hospital room with a note saying this is your mom and and she cried the rest of our hour together. She just was you found me, you found me.
• 45:40
  Rob Feakins: And so I think the thing that struck me is, and I think I sometimes try to do this when I film is that people need to be validated. You know, we've all had struggles, we've all had tough lives. Some a lot tougher than mine, that's for sure. But people need to be validated. And I think that's the thing I've learned.
• 45:58
  Becky Endicott: I knew that story was just gonna rock my world, and it absolutely did.
• 46:00
  Becky Endicott: And everyone matters. It's just that simple. Everyone matters.
• 46:04
  Becky Endicott: And if you take the time to give someone your attention in your microphone, and your video camera, or whatever it is that you're trying to capture. That is such a beautiful validation.
• 46:17
  Becky Endicott: And I just think that story was so beautiful, and I so appreciate the extra steps that you went to humanize that experience for her, you, Rob are so human, and so empathetic, I want to know what your one good thing is. And that's something I want you to get to the community and to, I want to know your favorite marathon.
• 46:44
  Rob Feakins: I'll do that I'll do number two, first, I've only run two marathons. And I did New York and Philly. And I had pulled a muscle eight weeks before New York. And so when I finished, I, my doctor said take 40 bucks with you, because you might not make it through Brooklyn. And so I finished that. But I was in so much pain, I cannot tell you because I didn't run for the four weeks before the marathon, I'd done my 20. But I didn't then run for four weeks. So I would say I enjoyed Philly a lot more. Okay, so here's, here's the one. Um, and I have to tell you, I've learned is very late in life.
• 47:25
  Rob Feakins: And I know, we're all incredibly busy. And it's probably the big reason why I didn't do more of it. But I'd say the one is whether you're an organization, particularly as a human being as being service to someone, it will change you. You know, we all need donors. We all need people to write checks. But if you're not in service to someone, you don't need to be a hospice volunteer. But if you're not in service to someone, whether you're a mentor, if you have a relationship with someone who's coming out of incarceration, and you're giving them clothing and taking them for coffee, and helping them get back on their feet anyway, if you're not in service to someone, I think you're making a big mistake. Because if you want to have a in my mind, for me, just for me, maybe not for others, but if you want if I want to have a purposeful life, I have to be in service to someone and I think it leads to so many important things. One, it leads to perspective. You want to you have a bad day, come with me to hospice, you're not going to have a bad day when you come home. That perspective then leads to gratitude always for me. And gratitude then, for me always goes to generosity. So I think being service to someone so you can find perspective, gratitude and generosity.
• 48:44
  Jonathan McCoy: Rob, I mean, you have been in service to us today. I mean, yeah, so much that I just will take with me from this conversation. I feel so much gratitude for just the way humility that you've brought and just wisdom from your life and the way that you're showing up. How can people connect with you? How can organizations reach out how can you walk through the brand purpose with them are all the different ways that you serve?
• 49:08
  Rob Feakins: Well, thank you.
• 49:08
  Rob Feakins: And thanks for what you do. I love this show. I mean, the the people you brought in and the way you interview is really special. It's a real talent.
• 49:18
  Rob Feakins: Very simple. Just go to for all humankind.com. You can see my background, you can see the work that we've done. Go to for all humankind. It's all there.
• 49:28
  Becky Endicott: Thank you for joining us, Rob. So I'm rooting for you.
• 49:30
  Rob Feakins: Thanks so much.
• 49:32
  Jonathan McCoy: Thanks for joining us. Today's episode was brought to you by our good friends at auth zero. Without zero your nonprofit can do more with a login box. Greet prospects and rabid fans of your mission with authenticity simply make it easier for your team to manage data. There's so much about zero login experience can do. Is it auth zero.org For more info.
• 49:51
  Becky Endicott: If you enjoyed this episode, we know you'll love being part of the we're for good community. It's like our own social network where you can find like minded friends, ask questions, share resources and find inspiration anytime. Sign up today. We are for good.com backslash hello thanks friends.