Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / FBI PROBES SPACE SCIENTISTS DEAD, MISSING, TOLL RISES TO 16

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FBI PROBES SPACE SCIENTISTS DEAD, MISSING, TOLL RISES TO 16 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Bob Shellton and I the FBI probing space scientists either
0:04
Speaker 1: dead or missing, and at this hour the toll has
0:08
Speaker 1: risen to sixteen. Good evening, imancy, Grace. This is crime Stories.
0:13
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us. A
0:22
Speaker 1: NASA nuclear engineer burned beyond recognition.
0:27
Speaker 2: He left his while and behind, he left his phone behind,
0:31
Speaker 2: and then he drove his tesla to the Huntsville Airport
0:35
Speaker 2: and then randomly, for no reason that we can figure out,
0:39
Speaker 2: crashed his tesla directly into a guard rail and the
0:42
Speaker 2: body inside of it was unrecognizable.
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Speaker 1: Tonight, the toll rising to six stained. Sixteen space scientists
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Speaker 1: either dead or missing.
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Speaker 3: The seventeenth American scientist, her name is Ingrid Colleen Lane,
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Speaker 3: and she went missing on a solo hike and Mexico.
1:00
Speaker 3: She vanished on State Route one forty four. Her black
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Speaker 3: twenty nineteen super wrote and found ninety one hundred feet
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Speaker 3: in elevation and out of cel rain. The Sheriff's department
1:09
Speaker 3: said that a large boulder rock crashed through the rear
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Speaker 3: hatch window. The front bumper of the car showed significant
1:16
Speaker 3: collision damage that has never been accounted for in any
1:19
Speaker 3: official report. Three laptops were inside an unactivated burner phone,
1:24
Speaker 3: and her keys were still in the ignition.
1:26
Speaker 1: Oh okay, wait a minute. Now I'm hearing that a
1:30
Speaker 1: female space scientist died after a boulder fell on her car.
1:36
Speaker 1: What's the odds of that happening? That's from a friend
1:40
Speaker 1: I found on insta, Mary C two HK. But what
1:44
Speaker 1: I don't get straight out to Lauren Conlin, joining US
1:47
Speaker 1: investigative reporter with the Los Angeles LA magazine, star of
1:52
Speaker 1: Pop Crime TV co host. You can find her at
1:55
Speaker 1: pop Crime TV. Lauren, why did I have to find
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Speaker 1: that buried amongst all sorts of outlandish theories regarding these
2:06
Speaker 1: missing scientists and dead scientists? Is any of that true?
2:11
Speaker 1: Who is Ingrid Lane? And is it true she has
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Speaker 1: disappeared but her car is found with a boulder attack.
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Speaker 4: Yes, so, as far as we know, Nancy, she is
2:24
Speaker 4: still alive. She is just missing. Ingrid Lane. She was
2:29
Speaker 4: a beautiful musician. She played the violin, but she was
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Speaker 4: also a neuroscientist and a bio engineer affiliated with the
2:37
Speaker 4: Mind Research Network at the University of New Mexico. Now
2:41
Speaker 4: this place, the Mind Research Network, It had ties to
2:45
Speaker 4: Los Alamos and San DIA National Laboratories. So that is
2:49
Speaker 4: where this very very striking connection comes in. The way
2:55
Speaker 4: that Ingrid disappeared is so chilling. Nancy she was actually
3:01
Speaker 4: at a retreat that she was supposed to be on
3:04
Speaker 4: a week long retreat at a place called the Body
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Speaker 4: Manda Zen Center, And according to reports and friends and family,
3:11
Speaker 4: she was very familiar with this place. She had been
3:14
Speaker 4: going there, I guess on and off for about ten years.
3:17
Speaker 4: It was about an hour from where she lived in
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Speaker 4: the Albuquerque area. So she's there for one day. The
3:23
Speaker 4: very next day, she tells people that she's going for
3:27
Speaker 4: a drive. She's got to go back to Albuquerque. She's
3:29
Speaker 4: got to go back to Los Alamos. She wants to
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Speaker 4: hike over there, and she'll be back later. Now this
3:35
Speaker 4: struck a few people as odd because it's like, you're
3:39
Speaker 4: going on a zen retreat, but now you want to
3:41
Speaker 4: drive a bunch of hours even though you're supposed to
3:43
Speaker 4: be meditating. Now here's where it gets a little weird.
3:47
Speaker 4: So she's driving along State Route one point forty four
3:51
Speaker 4: near the San Antonio Mountain and the Vayas Calleedra National Preserve.
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Speaker 4: She is going up and up and up to the
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Speaker 4: top of this mountain. Two people find her because she
4:02
Speaker 4: is having car trouble and they ask her, you know,
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Speaker 4: do you need some help, and she says, you know,
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Speaker 4: I'm fine, I will fix my car. They said, she
4:10
Speaker 4: seemed very determined to get to the top of this mountain.
4:12
Speaker 4: So according to these two people, they walk along and
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Speaker 4: she continues. Now later, as you mentioned, her car was
4:21
Speaker 4: found after there was an Apple air tag that police
4:25
Speaker 4: tracked when she was reported missing. Now, there was a
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Speaker 4: large boulder that had shattered near the rear hatch window
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Speaker 4: of her Subaru and the front showed reportedly major front
4:35
Speaker 4: and collision damage. We don't really have an explanation about that.
4:39
Speaker 4: But three laptops found inside that car, and Nancy an
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Speaker 4: unactivated burner phone and her keys were still in the ignition.
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Speaker 1: Let me understand, how can a boulder hit the front
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Speaker 1: end and the back end.
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Speaker 4: Well, we don't know that it was a boulder, right, Like,
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Speaker 4: nobody was there. There's no cameras, So this is what
5:02
Speaker 4: is being reported. I'm assuming based on what law enforcement observed.
5:07
Speaker 4: One thing I want to point out that I thought
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Speaker 4: with a little weird is that she went missing in
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Speaker 4: twenty twenty three she wasn't in the namous database until
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Speaker 4: late twenty twenty four. I mean, maybe that's that's a
5:19
Speaker 4: question that you know, I can't answer. Maybe you can answer.
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Speaker 4: Or Brian, why why does that happen? Why did it
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Speaker 4: take so long?
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Speaker 1: You're stating she was not in what database? Lauren Conlin?
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Speaker 4: The name ISS database, the government Missing Person's database.
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Speaker 1: Guys, Lauren is saying in amus NamUs is the way
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Speaker 1: it's pronounced, and it is a missing person database. And
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Speaker 1: she was only placed in there? How long after she
5:44
Speaker 1: went missing?
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Speaker 4: About I want to say more more than a year?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, Lauren Conlin, what was her field of study?
5:56
Speaker 4: She was a bio engineer and a new scientist. She
6:01
Speaker 4: was brilliant. Nancy, I mean her name. I was just
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Speaker 4: looking this up. Her name is connected to multiple reports
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Speaker 4: pertaining to the US Department of Energy, and this is
6:12
Speaker 4: from the Sandia National Laboratory Center for Computing Research. So
6:17
Speaker 4: you know, you can find a lot about where she
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Speaker 4: worked and what she did online. And I went through
6:24
Speaker 4: this deep dive of Ingrid. I just got so involved,
6:27
Speaker 4: and I found an article that she wrote back in
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Speaker 4: twenty twelve, kind of like an op ed where she
6:33
Speaker 4: really was already questioning authority at that point, and she
6:38
Speaker 4: was reportedly fighting for LGBTQ rights at her workplace, which
6:43
Speaker 4: wasn't necessarily going over too well. And this is according
6:47
Speaker 4: to friends, so she was struggling a bit at the
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Speaker 4: time of her disappearance.
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Speaker 1: Straight out to special guests joining us, Frank Melbourne, we
6:56
Speaker 1: are talking about yet another scientist missing or dead in
7:03
Speaker 1: this case, Ingrid Lane. Do you know what, let me
7:07
Speaker 1: introduce Frank Milburn. Everyone. Frank, as you may know by now,
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Speaker 1: former British intelligence officer, very dear friend of Amy Escridge,
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Speaker 1: another brilliant scientist who made it a point to tell
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Speaker 1: Frank repeatedly if I'm found dead, I did not commit suicide,
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Speaker 1: no matter what anybody tells you. Yet it's reported that
7:33
Speaker 1: she died of self inflicted gunshot wound, and I'd like
7:35
Speaker 1: to point out that no official autopsy has ever been
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Speaker 1: released ever, And we've compiled a list of other scientists
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Speaker 1: found dead with amazingly no cod In fact, one of
7:48
Speaker 1: them is reported dead because he was overweight and must
7:51
Speaker 1: have had a heart attack. That's not cutting it. But
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Speaker 1: Frank Milburn, what I'm hearing about Ingrid Lane is an
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Speaker 1: eerie echo of what is being said about the brilliant scientist,
8:06
Speaker 1: miss Eskridge, her father a brilliant scientist, both of them
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Speaker 1: working in anti gravity jet propulsion. That said, they're being smeared,
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Speaker 1: you know, all of the comments that have been made
8:19
Speaker 1: about Amy well as to Ingrid, she's being described as
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Speaker 1: a Buddhist musician struggling with her health. She's so much
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Speaker 1: more than that. She is a brilliant scientist. And I
8:39
Speaker 1: see what's happening with these victims. They are being discredited,
8:44
Speaker 1: and it's very hard for me to understand how Ingrid
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Speaker 1: Laane can just disappear from a bolder attack on her car.
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Speaker 1: It's just not computing ideal and hard facts. Every case
8:59
Speaker 1: I've ever proxseecutor or investigated either rises or falls, are
9:03
Speaker 1: the facts not innuindo in speculation about the victim's private life.
9:08
Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 5: Absolutely, I think that's a fundamental problem with these you know, victims,
9:13
Speaker 5: and I will call them victims because they are being
9:15
Speaker 5: discredited in this way. And for example, I've continued my
9:19
Speaker 5: investigations and you know, Amy made allegations of corporate espionage
9:24
Speaker 5: against two different organizations and individuals linked to those and
9:28
Speaker 5: she was both threatened over that from those sources before
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Speaker 5: her death, harassed discredited, and also since her death, both
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Speaker 5: she and I there have been efforts made against from
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Speaker 5: those same sources, you know, to discredit her and to
9:41
Speaker 5: discredit myself for you know, for trying to push this
9:44
Speaker 5: this investigation. So unfortunately that's a problem and where you
9:47
Speaker 5: have very very brilliant people who have these kinds of
9:51
Speaker 5: you know, very strange and suspicious circumstances around them, and
9:54
Speaker 5: you will have people trying to discredit them, and that
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Speaker 5: is to their discredit themselves, not the victims guys.
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Speaker 1: Tonight the tool of missing in or dead space scientists
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Speaker 1: has risen to sixteen. Now I want to talk about
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Speaker 1: Ingrid for one moment. This description of her as a
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Speaker 1: Buddhist musician struggling no. She was also a bio engineer,
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Speaker 1: a neuroscientist with the Mind Research Lab at University New Mexico.
10:27
Speaker 1: Also worked at or with Sandia and other labs, Los
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Speaker 1: Alamos Labs in particular. Her husband an astrophysicist with the
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Speaker 1: Department of Defense. He builds directed energy weapons software for
10:43
Speaker 1: the Air Force at Kirkland AFB. He has published multiple
10:49
Speaker 1: research papers about earthlike planets near other stars. But yet
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Speaker 1: she is being painted as a crackpot. Lauren Carlan, I've
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Speaker 1: been researching Ingrid, as have you, and all of the
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Speaker 1: personal every description is discrediting her brilliant mind in her
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Speaker 1: advances in science. She's being written off as a crack put,
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Speaker 1: much like Amy Escridge. But Amy Escridge isn't this true.
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Speaker 1: Frank Milburn had some of the highest government security clearance
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Speaker 1: that can be had. She was working with Homeland Security
11:30
Speaker 1: and more.
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Speaker 5: She was also I mean a can comment on her
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Speaker 5: clearances because I didn't discuss those with her, whether she
11:38
Speaker 5: had them, whether she didn't. But she was interested in
11:41
Speaker 5: working on some very very interesting cases and technologies. She
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Speaker 5: was working with Homeland Security, yes, and just the fact
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Speaker 5: that she had a kind of string of people who
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Speaker 5: worked on high level government UFO programs who were visiting
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Speaker 5: her home, scientists and others. So she was watching that field.
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Speaker 2: You know.
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Speaker 1: Bryanfu Gibbons joining us and everyone on the panel that
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Speaker 1: hasn't been introduced yet tonight please jump in when you
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Speaker 1: have a thought. Bryanf's Gibbons is with US the Director
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Speaker 1: Operations USPA Nationwide Security. He leads a team of investigators
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Speaker 1: around the world finding missing people. He is a former
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Speaker 1: marine and an Iraqi war vet. Brian. Here's another tidbit,
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Speaker 1: a fact that just doesn't fall into place with me
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Speaker 1: regarding ingrid Lane. She went to a zen center for
12:36
Speaker 1: a few days. Zen Center, get it, zen chill? Her
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Speaker 1: mind brilliant and this was a break for her. But
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Speaker 1: yet suddenly she announced she had to leave by car,
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Speaker 1: in her black subru Then it's found on about eleven
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Speaker 1: mile north. I believe New Mexico won twenty six. Now
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Speaker 1: here's the thing. She's gone, but her car barely survived
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Speaker 1: a boulder attack. How can she vanish near the mountains?
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Speaker 1: How can that happen? Wooden cadaver dogs, drones, someone something
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Speaker 1: have found her. There's her car? Where is she? She
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Speaker 1: had a burner phone? Why why does she suddenly leave
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Speaker 1: her z in retreat by car? Why her husband doesn't know?
13:36
Speaker 1: Why helped me out fits? Because this isn't fitting together.
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Speaker 1: And now she's being described this astrophysicist as a crackpot.
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Speaker 6: What triggered that need to leave this retreat center so urgently?
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Speaker 6: And when you add in the totality of the fact
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Speaker 6: surrounding this case, you brought up maybe the most prescient point, Nantee,
13:59
Speaker 6: you and I have to get other have covered so
14:01
Speaker 6: many cases of missing hikers and all to a search
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Speaker 6: and rescue effort is very efficient at finding somebody, especially
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Speaker 6: when there are mark trails, known routes, a retreat center nearby.
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Speaker 6: If there was some kind of medical emergency that Ingrid suffered,
14:20
Speaker 6: search and rescue effort would find her relatively quickly. So
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Speaker 6: to add in this burner phone what appears to be
14:29
Speaker 6: potentially a stagely of a secondary crime scene at the vehicle,
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Speaker 6: you know there are a number of red flags here.
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Speaker 1: I want to go back to Lauren Conlin. Lauren Colin
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Speaker 1: everyone investigative reporter. You've seen her joining us many many
14:44
Speaker 1: times on crime stories. She is a contributor at LA
14:48
Speaker 1: magazine and has just written an incredible article about the
14:51
Speaker 1: missing NASA scientist Monica Rasa. And the reason I want
14:56
Speaker 1: to bring that up is not just because of your article,
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Speaker 1: which is amazing, Lauren Colin, but Monica's disappearance, in my mind,
15:06
Speaker 1: is eerily similar to some of the other disappearances. Tell
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Speaker 1: me what you learned about Monica.
15:11
Speaker 4: Yes, well, I was just going to say this, Nancy.
15:14
Speaker 4: Between Monica and Ingrid. I'm seeing some similarities that are
15:19
Speaker 4: are very chilling. There was a red beanie of Monica's
15:22
Speaker 4: that was found, and after this red beanie was found,
15:25
Speaker 4: and again, you know, just for those that don't know,
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Speaker 4: she went missing in June of twenty twenty five when
15:30
Speaker 4: she was hiking in the Mount Waterman area of the
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Speaker 4: Los Angeles Mountains in California. It's one thousand or hundreds
15:38
Speaker 4: of thousands of acres its entire area, but her area.
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Speaker 4: We do know her last known coordinates, which is where
15:45
Speaker 4: law enforcement and family and friends have been searching for
15:48
Speaker 4: the last year. So she left. Oh that that red
15:51
Speaker 4: beanie that you saw on that photo that was found.
15:54
Speaker 4: Now Monica, yep, Monica's scent stopped after that beanie was found.
16:00
Speaker 4: That is very concerning. If she were to keep going on,
16:03
Speaker 4: Let's say she got lost, right, why would her scent
16:06
Speaker 4: stop there? Same with Ingrid. Reportedly, there was forensic evidence
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Speaker 4: indicating that Ingrid had been outside or near her vehicle,
16:15
Speaker 4: but there was no trace showing where she went after
16:19
Speaker 4: search dogs reportedly found no sent trail leading away from
16:23
Speaker 4: the scene. That to me makes no sense, and I
16:27
Speaker 4: have to wonder without being a conspiracy theorist worthy stage somehow,
16:32
Speaker 4: And with Monica, I have spoken to close family members
16:36
Speaker 4: who are desperate to find their their sister, their mother,
16:41
Speaker 4: their cousin. Monica is a widow. They wanted everyone to
16:45
Speaker 4: know that she was not working for any type of
16:47
Speaker 4: foreign government, any foreign intelligence. She she was studying yoga
16:53
Speaker 4: with a specialty in Vadic sciences, and she had done
16:56
Speaker 4: this for about thirty years, and she was working for
16:59
Speaker 4: NASA JPL the time. One last thing I want to
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Speaker 4: say about Monica Nancy is the fact that she had
17:04
Speaker 4: an iPhone eight, which meant that her cell phone was
17:08
Speaker 4: not going to ping anywhere unless she was at a
17:11
Speaker 4: proper place in the mountain for it to work. If
17:14
Speaker 4: she would have had an iPhone twelve, it could have pinged.
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Speaker 4: But this is one of the most baffling things ever.
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Speaker 4: Again because she was with two people, two companions, and
17:24
Speaker 4: they both seem to have a very specific story. And
17:27
Speaker 4: as far as I know, Nancy, no one else can
17:30
Speaker 4: put Monica on the mountain that day except for these
17:33
Speaker 4: two people. I have not spoken to them personally. I
17:35
Speaker 4: have reached out to one of them, but I have
17:38
Speaker 4: a lot of questions.
17:39
Speaker 1: Lauren Colin isn't it true that Monica Hyacintha Reisa got
17:45
Speaker 1: her funding from a FRL Air Force Research Lab and
17:51
Speaker 1: she worked closely with and her funding was approved by
17:55
Speaker 1: William Neil McCasland, who walked away from his home with
18:01
Speaker 1: none of his ID, without his phone, without anything on
18:05
Speaker 1: him to identify who he was except an Air Force
18:08
Speaker 1: sweatshirt which was found discarded about two miles away. McCaslin
18:13
Speaker 1: oversaw Monica Jussaint Theresa's projects and okay, the funding for her,
18:20
Speaker 1: isn't that true?
18:22
Speaker 4: They did overlap, And I you know, I've reached out
18:26
Speaker 4: to these places like right Patterson the Air Force Research Lab,
18:29
Speaker 4: and I think I mentioned this to you. It's very
18:30
Speaker 4: difficult to get confirmation of what people did exactly and
18:36
Speaker 4: the years that they worked there, you know. So I'm
18:38
Speaker 4: going off of LinkedIn for these two in general. But yes,
18:42
Speaker 4: Monica Raisa, you know, she copatented these high strength metal alloys,
18:46
Speaker 4: burn resistant alloys, and General McCaslin was at the very top.
18:51
Speaker 4: So this to me like they are the center of
18:56
Speaker 4: all of this. I really believe they are. And one
18:58
Speaker 4: other thing that's so concerning about Monica Resa. When I
19:01
Speaker 4: spoke to her family. Last week, no one from the
19:04
Speaker 4: FBI or the White House had reached out to her.
19:07
Speaker 4: And I know that doesn't mean they're not looking into this.
19:10
Speaker 4: I know that maybe family doesn't know exactly what she
19:12
Speaker 4: was working on. I just thought that was very strange
19:15
Speaker 4: in terms of profiling.
19:17
Speaker 1: She was working on a particular alloy to be used
19:23
Speaker 1: on rockets and other aircraft that was resistant to high
19:30
Speaker 1: high degrees of heat, and the name is Monde Lois.
19:36
Speaker 1: She was perfecting the use of Mondaloi on rocket ships
19:41
Speaker 1: and other craft. So as part of her research, suddenly
19:47
Speaker 1: she goes missing. And I want to address what you
19:50
Speaker 1: just said, Lauren Conlin with Brian fitz Gibbons. Here's an
19:55
Speaker 1: example everybody can understand. And I was shocked when I
19:58
Speaker 1: first heard it. This was during the Sky Peterson murder
20:00
Speaker 1: investigation where Lacy and Connor were murdered by Scott Peterson.
20:05
Speaker 1: Do you know a scent dog tracked Lacey from Modesto
20:11
Speaker 1: all the way to the San Francisco Bay. The dog
20:16
Speaker 1: tracked her that far and she was in a vehicle,
20:19
Speaker 1: probably in the back of a boat with a tarp
20:22
Speaker 1: over it, tractor all the way in a vehicle, so
20:27
Speaker 1: Why is it that Ingrid Lane and Monica Jacento Esa
20:32
Speaker 1: just disappear and leave behind no identifiable scent for either
20:38
Speaker 1: a scent dog or a cadaver dog.
20:42
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's perplexing. I mean, as you know, and you
20:45
Speaker 6: pointed out with the Peterson case, and there are so
20:47
Speaker 6: many other examples. US marshals just tracked down a fugitive
20:52
Speaker 6: in Naples just today using scent dogs. This is through
20:57
Speaker 6: thick brush wetlands. It's amazing what these dogs can do.
21:05
Speaker 7: But the beanie, it's the only thing found. The big
21:08
Speaker 7: one comes down to the canas. They took ca. Nine
21:12
Speaker 7: teams out there, sent trackers. They tracked the scent to
21:16
Speaker 7: the beanie and there was no cent trail leading away
21:19
Speaker 7: from the beanie. Right continued If she continued in that direction,
21:24
Speaker 7: the dogs were continued. The beanie is at the location
21:27
Speaker 7: where the only witness saw her disappear. The only witness
21:31
Speaker 7: produced the two photos, and the beanie is at that
21:35
Speaker 7: location as well. At the investigative angle, at the investigative side,
21:39
Speaker 7: you have to look at this as possible foul play
21:41
Speaker 7: and possible staging of an event.
21:44
Speaker 1: You are hearing well known geo profiler Doug McGregor answering
21:50
Speaker 1: questions for Lauren Commlin at LA Magazine describing what is
21:56
Speaker 1: a forensic quandary nundrum, a Rubik's cube, so to speak,
22:03
Speaker 1: because in our world of hard evidence, a scent doesn't
22:08
Speaker 1: just disappear unless that person maybe was put in a
22:13
Speaker 1: vehicle and the dog loses the scent. But that doesn't
22:18
Speaker 1: make sense. As far as Monica Jacinto Reisa's disappearance, she
22:26
Speaker 1: was on the side of a mountain. She wasn't picked
22:28
Speaker 1: up in a vehicle. Ingrid Lane was in the middle
22:33
Speaker 1: of rugged terrain, her car sitting right there, disabled by
22:38
Speaker 1: a boulder attack. No, and a mystery Berner phone left
22:44
Speaker 1: in her vehicle. No, guys, I told you that the
22:51
Speaker 1: toll is now up to fourteen. And you have been
22:54
Speaker 1: hearing Lauren Colin, who has been intensely researching the disappearance
22:59
Speaker 1: of Monica Desa as well as Ingod Lane. But there
23:04
Speaker 1: is another name that has emerged, Kevin Childress. Kevin Childress
23:12
Speaker 1: was found dead unexpectedly. And I'm going to go to
23:17
Speaker 1: Dave Max shortly about how many of these scientists are dead.
23:21
Speaker 1: But there's no medical examiners report and there's no official
23:25
Speaker 1: cause of death. How can that be? Even when my
23:31
Speaker 1: step grandfather passed away of a heart attack in the
23:35
Speaker 1: home with my grandma there, they did an autopsy to
23:40
Speaker 1: determine what really happened. He was eighty eight years old.
23:45
Speaker 1: They did an autopsy and it was a heart attack.
23:48
Speaker 1: Why no autopsy said, no official CODs. That's a whole
23:52
Speaker 1: in other cattle worms. But I want to get back
23:55
Speaker 1: to Kevin Childress. Joining me now is Lou Alessando, former
24:03
Speaker 1: US Army counter intelligence special agent, former employee Office Undersecretary
24:08
Speaker 1: of Defense for Intelligence, former Director of Advance Aerospace Threat
24:13
Speaker 1: Identification Program, and UFO whistleblower. Wow uh, mister Alessando, I
24:21
Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us tonight. You
24:24
Speaker 1: have refused in the past to give me the name
24:28
Speaker 1: Kevin Childress, but I found it elsewhere. Kevin Childress and
24:34
Speaker 1: correct me if I am wrong. Was set to have
24:38
Speaker 1: a meeting describing very very sensitive scientific information. He was
24:47
Speaker 1: going to Congress and talking about what was in the
24:51
Speaker 1: UAP files. And then suddenly he's found dead on a
24:56
Speaker 1: sofa and there was never an autopsy. What can you
25:03
Speaker 1: tell me about Kevin Childress other than he was brilliant
25:07
Speaker 1: that much I already know.
25:10
Speaker 8: Sure, well, Nancy, thank you very much for having me.
25:12
Speaker 8: Certainly an honor and privilege. You're absolutely correct. Kevin Childress
25:16
Speaker 8: was a senior special agent with the Department of Energy,
25:20
Speaker 8: And as you continue to look at some of these
25:22
Speaker 8: other cases, there are definitely ties. When you're talking about
25:25
Speaker 8: a national laboratory, they're always tied with the Department of Energy,
25:29
Speaker 8: and so in this particular case, special Agent Kevin Childress
25:33
Speaker 8: was a special Agent in charge. He was there at
25:36
Speaker 8: headquarters with the Department of Energy, and he had reached
25:38
Speaker 8: out to me. This is right after I left the Pentagon,
25:41
Speaker 8: and he was very concerned. He said, look, the Department
25:43
Speaker 8: of Energy has a significant role in the UAP business,
25:47
Speaker 8: and I'm pretty upset by what I have access to.
25:51
Speaker 8: And now that I've raised it through my chain of command,
25:53
Speaker 8: I feel that the Department of Energy is trying to
25:57
Speaker 8: keep me quiet. So I'm worried about that. But there
26:00
Speaker 8: is there's a lot of information, this is what he's saying,
26:03
Speaker 8: that I have access to, and I would love a
26:05
Speaker 8: chance to talk to somebody in Congress about it. So
26:09
Speaker 8: I was in the process of arranging a meeting between
26:12
Speaker 8: Special Agent Kevin Childress and some members of Congress back
26:16
Speaker 8: in the twenty twenty twenty twenty one time frame. And
26:22
Speaker 8: to spare the you know, the family there that I
26:25
Speaker 8: want to be cognizant of their privacy, Let's just say
26:28
Speaker 8: his spouse is extremely well trained in the medical field.
26:33
Speaker 8: And I think it was a surprise to everybody. He
26:36
Speaker 8: had left. She had left for work that morning, he
26:39
Speaker 8: seemed fine. She came home that evening and he was
26:42
Speaker 8: dead on the sofa. And clearly I would had some
26:47
Speaker 8: some surprise as well when I heard this news. But
26:51
Speaker 8: if you look at his obituary, which I find very interesting,
26:54
Speaker 8: specifically one of the last paragraphs, it talks about his
26:57
Speaker 8: his his interest in the UAP topic, and that's actually
27:01
Speaker 8: what was the basis for our conversation we were going
27:04
Speaker 8: to have in Congress. I was going to bring him
27:06
Speaker 8: there as a whistleblower and allow him to speak his peace.
27:09
Speaker 1: We identify that place unidentified aerial phenomena. That's what we're
27:14
Speaker 1: talking about UAP.
27:17
Speaker 8: It sounds very con but the reality is that our
27:22
Speaker 8: government has spent a lot of time, a lot of
27:24
Speaker 8: resources looking into the topic of UAP, or what was
27:28
Speaker 8: known in the vernacular as UFOs, in the past, and
27:31
Speaker 8: of course people like to snicker a giggle about it,
27:33
Speaker 8: but the reality is we took it very seriously and
27:36
Speaker 8: we spent a lot of money, tax payer money looking
27:38
Speaker 8: into this because we had in some cases almost mid
27:40
Speaker 8: air collisions between a UAP or a UFO if you
27:45
Speaker 8: want to call it that, and a military aircraft. We
27:48
Speaker 8: also saw these things over controlled US airspace, over sensitive
27:52
Speaker 8: military installations, over our nuclear facilities. And this is why
27:56
Speaker 8: Department of Energy is so important here, because the nuclear
27:58
Speaker 8: tie is it may be actually something that we need
28:02
Speaker 8: to look at. All these scientists that have disappeared.
28:05
Speaker 1: In nuclear tie. Hold on, you know what, pardon the pun,
28:09
Speaker 1: but your light speed ahead of us regular people. What
28:13
Speaker 1: do you mean the nuclear tie.
28:16
Speaker 8: So one of the things that we noticed while in
28:19
Speaker 8: the Pentagon running the UFO program was that these UAP
28:23
Speaker 8: or these UFOs have an interest in our nuclear equities,
28:27
Speaker 8: whether it's nuclear propulsion, nuclear power, and nuclear weapons systems.
28:31
Speaker 8: And what a lot of people don't know is that
28:34
Speaker 8: the Department of Energy plays a significant role when anything
28:37
Speaker 8: that is that is considered radioactive or has a certain yield,
28:41
Speaker 8: Department of Energy has primacy. And so in this particular case,
28:45
Speaker 8: you have a lot of scientists at large, not just
28:48
Speaker 8: Kevin Chilters who was a special agent, that were looking
28:52
Speaker 8: that we're working at these national laboratories under the Department
28:55
Speaker 8: of Energy cognizance, and a lot of the work that
28:58
Speaker 8: they were doing could be related to some sort of
29:00
Speaker 8: Department of Energy project. Now, I want to be very
29:03
Speaker 8: careful here because certainly I don't want to talk about
29:06
Speaker 8: anything that's classified. But you know, as one of your
29:10
Speaker 8: participants here mentioned, these individuals had security clearances, in some
29:13
Speaker 8: cases top secret sci security clearances as hayaaccats, and that's
29:18
Speaker 8: the reason why you have FBI now involvement in investigating
29:22
Speaker 8: these what we call national level cases. But there are
29:25
Speaker 8: other individuals, and I'm sure our friend here, Frank Milburn,
29:30
Speaker 8: can tell you Amy Eskridge was no different. I had
29:34
Speaker 8: the opportunity to speak with her in person and twenty
29:37
Speaker 8: eighteen timeframe in the Huntsville, Alabama area Redstone Missile Arsenal,
29:42
Speaker 8: where she had indicated to me that she was working
29:46
Speaker 8: on an anti gravitic technology her and her father, and
29:49
Speaker 8: that that research was being suppressed. And I know this
29:53
Speaker 8: sounds very conspiratorial, but I was there for the meeting
29:56
Speaker 8: was actually over dinner, and all I'm telling you is
29:58
Speaker 8: what she told me, and she's that they're being harassed
30:01
Speaker 8: and that she's very, very afraid that there are certain
30:04
Speaker 8: elements that are trying to quote unquote shut them down.
30:08
Speaker 8: And yeah, she she told me that verbatim, and then
30:12
Speaker 8: of course, unfortunately she wound up dying passing away a
30:18
Speaker 8: General mcaslym the same thing A lot of people don't realize.
30:20
Speaker 8: Neil McCaslin, who we talked about AFRL Air Force Research
30:24
Speaker 8: Laboratory and some of these other national laboratories. He was
30:28
Speaker 8: a lynchpin to a lot of the military's black projects. Basically,
30:32
Speaker 8: they're working on technologies that in theory, we won't see
30:35
Speaker 8: for another fifty years. And mcaslm. What a lot of
30:38
Speaker 8: people don't know is that he was also an advisor
30:41
Speaker 8: to one of my colleagues, Tom DeLong. Tom DeLong is
30:44
Speaker 8: the former frontman current frontman I Think Again for the
30:48
Speaker 8: Blink one two rock band and as crazy as sounds.
30:52
Speaker 8: Tom had an interest in the UAP topic, UFO topic,
30:56
Speaker 8: and General mcasly Neil McCaslin I know as a fact
30:59
Speaker 8: because I worked with Tom was one of his advisors
31:03
Speaker 8: on the UFO topic. And so I want to be
31:06
Speaker 8: very careful here not to sound conspiratorial or draw any
31:08
Speaker 8: lines that aren't there. But a lot of these individuals
31:12
Speaker 8: that are on this list actually had some sort of
31:15
Speaker 8: involvement in either advanced propulsion, advanced types of materials and alloys,
31:22
Speaker 8: or specifically UAP research.
31:25
Speaker 1: Question to you, what was the cause of Kevin Childer's death.
31:31
Speaker 8: He supposedly died from COVID complications, but what I spoke
31:35
Speaker 8: to him earlier, he seemed fine. And according to other
31:38
Speaker 8: witnesses who I won't name here, who saw him that
31:41
Speaker 8: very morning, said he seemed fine.
31:46
Speaker 1: Did his wife know he had COVID?
31:50
Speaker 8: You know, I'd let her answer that instead of me. Again,
31:55
Speaker 8: I'm very cautious not to overstep my bound I want
31:57
Speaker 8: to be very careful of people's private see, but I
32:01
Speaker 8: would suspect.
32:02
Speaker 1: You know, if an autopsy was ever performed.
32:07
Speaker 8: I don't know that. I don't know that, but I
32:09
Speaker 8: know when he talked to me, he had told me, specifically,
32:11
Speaker 8: like Amy Eskridge, that he was very afraid that there
32:14
Speaker 8: was there were reprisals against him at the Department of Energy,
32:18
Speaker 8: that they tried to squeeze him out. They tried to
32:20
Speaker 8: launch fake investigations and tried to discredit him, and something
32:24
Speaker 8: that I'm personally keenly aware of because when I left
32:26
Speaker 8: the Pentagon as well and decided to go public, they
32:29
Speaker 8: the same thing happened to me and some of my
32:31
Speaker 8: colleagues who decided to come out and and talk about
32:34
Speaker 8: this topic to the American people. So I don't doubt
32:38
Speaker 8: the fact that he was, in some way ship orformed,
32:40
Speaker 8: being intimidated and they were trying to suppress his communications.
32:46
Speaker 8: When I say they, I don't know who they are.
32:48
Speaker 8: I don't know if it was government sponsored or if
32:51
Speaker 8: it was someone else. But I can tell you in
32:54
Speaker 8: my conversations with him, and of course Amy Eskridge, and
32:58
Speaker 8: then later on with me, you know, McCaslin, all of
33:01
Speaker 8: these individuals had a very keen interest in the UFO topic,
33:04
Speaker 8: and that for me, is obviously very concerning.
33:08
Speaker 1: Died of COVID, yet no one seems to be able
33:12
Speaker 1: to confirm he had COVID, and no cod cause of
33:17
Speaker 1: death is listed in the obituary. Kevin Childress, who was
33:23
Speaker 1: concerned that he was being treated as a whistleblower and
33:30
Speaker 1: was set to talk to a member of Congress, then
33:34
Speaker 1: dies on the sofa. No cod. I'm also very curious
33:42
Speaker 1: about Matthew Sullivan aka Quake. Is it true or do
33:50
Speaker 1: you know whether an autopsy was ever ever performed on
33:55
Speaker 1: Sullivan and what was said to be his cause of death.
34:01
Speaker 8: Yeah, So rather than share what I don't know, let
34:03
Speaker 8: me share you with you what I do know. He
34:05
Speaker 8: was an Air Force intelligence officer. He was a colleague
34:09
Speaker 8: of one of my colleagues at the time, Dave Groosch.
34:12
Speaker 8: Dave Grush and I had worked at US Space Force together,
34:15
Speaker 8: and Sullivan wanted to come forward and have a conversation
34:19
Speaker 8: with certain members of Congress about the Air Force's involvement
34:23
Speaker 8: in the UFO program, and he was slated within I
34:27
Speaker 8: think twenty four hours. He had gone to Washington, d C.
34:29
Speaker 8: And was in a hotel from my understanding, and was
34:32
Speaker 8: going to have a conversation with some members of Congress.
34:34
Speaker 8: Any skiff a skiff is a sensitive compartment and information facility,
34:38
Speaker 8: so it's kind of like a think of a secret
34:40
Speaker 8: vault where you can have conversations at the classified level.
34:43
Speaker 8: And the day before he was supposed to have a
34:47
Speaker 8: conversation or two days before he wound up being found dead,
34:52
Speaker 8: I knew. What I do know is that there was
34:55
Speaker 8: a while before the medical examiner even released a report.
34:58
Speaker 8: It kept getting delayed into aid and delayed. I don't
35:01
Speaker 8: know the reason why he was delayed, but I do
35:03
Speaker 8: know that members of Congress were very concerned the fact
35:06
Speaker 8: that this individual was supposed to testify and wound up dead.
35:09
Speaker 8: And by the way, this wasn't the only one. There
35:11
Speaker 8: was another another individual whose name I won't mention because
35:15
Speaker 8: it hasn't been made public yet, but he was an individual,
35:18
Speaker 8: an engineer, who was allegedly tied to the exploitation of
35:24
Speaker 8: recovered UFO material. He was a He was talking to
35:29
Speaker 8: one of my colleagues, and he was he was going
35:32
Speaker 8: to go talk to Congress about his knowledge about about
35:35
Speaker 8: legacy US government legacy UFO efforts. And within I think
35:41
Speaker 8: a week or so before he was supposed to go
35:43
Speaker 8: to Washington, d C. He wound up dying. And the
35:47
Speaker 8: cause of death I don't know, but one of my
35:50
Speaker 8: colleagues was following it very closely and was concerned enough
35:53
Speaker 8: to tell me, hey, look, you know people are starting
35:56
Speaker 8: to disappear. You may want to be very careful so
36:00
Speaker 8: seemed to be a very interesting you can call it
36:02
Speaker 8: a coincidence. But in my line of work as a
36:05
Speaker 8: former intelligence officer, you know, when things happen once, it's
36:07
Speaker 8: an anomaly. When things happen twice, you could chalk it
36:10
Speaker 8: up as a coincidence. But when it happens three times,
36:13
Speaker 8: now you have a trend. Now you have a connection there,
36:17
Speaker 8: and there does seem to be some very interesting connection here.
36:20
Speaker 8: Now I also have to preface so you know, as
36:22
Speaker 8: a former intelligence officer myself, it is not as uncommon
36:26
Speaker 8: as you might think that foreign countries will sometimes take
36:32
Speaker 8: very extreme measures to keep information quiet. We're now beginning
36:37
Speaker 8: to see that there are several scientists now in China
36:40
Speaker 8: that are missing and there may be reasons for that,
36:44
Speaker 8: and same with Russia. So we need to do a
36:48
Speaker 8: lot of work on this. But you know, if I
36:49
Speaker 8: may Nancy digress for just one moment, because you had
36:52
Speaker 8: a very interesting picture there of a vehicle that was
36:55
Speaker 8: allegedly hit by a boulder and this was the scientist
37:00
Speaker 8: female scientists who went up and wound up disappearing. Yeah,
37:06
Speaker 8: let's take a look at this photo for example, just
37:08
Speaker 8: for a moment. What I find very interesting as a
37:11
Speaker 8: former special agent myself is that if a boulder hit this,
37:15
Speaker 8: I don't see any real damage to the top of
37:17
Speaker 8: the vehicle. What I see is damage into the back
37:20
Speaker 8: of the window as if someone tried to do some
37:22
Speaker 8: sort of smashing grab, and maybe some minor damage below
37:26
Speaker 8: that on the trunk area. But what I don't see
37:29
Speaker 8: as anything that looks like a large boulder had come
37:32
Speaker 8: raining down from a cliff and smashed the back part
37:36
Speaker 8: of the vehicle there. And now maybe they were able
37:38
Speaker 8: to recover a rock or something, but that really does
37:41
Speaker 8: not look consistent to me. As a giant bowlder coming
37:46
Speaker 8: down from a hill and smashing the vehicle, one would
37:48
Speaker 8: expect to have much much more damage to that vehicle.
37:52
Speaker 8: If that was a case.
37:53
Speaker 1: That is an incredible observation. It's right under our noses,
37:57
Speaker 1: but we didn't see it. That's why you are the
37:59
Speaker 1: former US Army counter intelligence special agent. I want to
38:03
Speaker 1: defend Matthew Sullivan because I feel that he, along with
38:08
Speaker 1: Amy Eskridge, along with Ingrid and others, is being painted
38:14
Speaker 1: in a let me just say, a bad light. Matthew
38:20
Speaker 1: Sullivan earned a Bronze Star for valor in operation and
38:24
Speaker 1: during freedom. He worked for the Air Force Intelligence Agency,
38:28
Speaker 1: the National Air and Space Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency.
38:34
Speaker 1: You know, it was stated by Major General David Abba
38:39
Speaker 1: that Sullivan held the quote burden. A few, a select
38:43
Speaker 1: few in this nation have of truly understanding what is
38:48
Speaker 1: going on in the field of jet propulsion anti gravity
38:56
Speaker 1: UFO information. He had the highest recommendations. Yet, let me
39:05
Speaker 1: understand how Matthew died. Matthew died just before he was
39:10
Speaker 1: set to speak to members of Congress alone in the
39:12
Speaker 1: hotel room. To you, Dave, matt Crime Stories investigative reporter.
39:19
Speaker 1: What were the circumstances surrounding his death? What did they
39:23
Speaker 1: say he had ingested Nancy?
39:25
Speaker 9: They said that this Air Force veteran Bronze Star recipient,
39:30
Speaker 9: Matthew James Sullivan, at the age of thirty nine, died
39:34
Speaker 9: from a lethal mix of alcohol, al praslam, cycloe benzapreeen.
39:41
Speaker 9: We've got alcohol, xanax, a muscle relaxer, and a bed wedding.
39:46
Speaker 1: That is medication.
39:48
Speaker 9: That's what it is reported.
39:50
Speaker 1: For children.
39:51
Speaker 9: Yeah, for children. Yes, Eddie overdosed accidentally on those medications.
39:55
Speaker 1: You know, there was no autopsy there as well. And
40:00
Speaker 1: when I've circled back to Kevin Childress, Dave matt isn't
40:04
Speaker 1: it true regarding Kevin Childress that no autopsy was performed
40:08
Speaker 1: and his death was chopped off to a heart attack
40:11
Speaker 1: because he was obese mixed with COVID.
40:14
Speaker 9: Yes, that believe it or not. That is what was
40:19
Speaker 9: said by the medical examiner without doing an autopsy.
40:23
Speaker 1: Nancy.
40:23
Speaker 9: One thing to go back very quickly on Matthew Sullivan.
40:26
Speaker 1: No autopsy none.
40:28
Speaker 9: Representative Eric Berlison, Nancy, He's a congressman from Missouri who
40:32
Speaker 9: serves on a House Oversight Committee task force that on
40:35
Speaker 9: the declassification of federal's secrets. They were so shocked in
40:39
Speaker 9: his office at the death of Matthew Sullivan that Congressman
40:42
Speaker 9: Burlison reached out to the FBI and asked for them
40:46
Speaker 9: to do an investigation. Due to the timing of Sullivan's death.
40:53
Speaker 1: Sullivan was part of a legacy UFO program, the US
40:58
Speaker 1: government Crash Reach Retrieval program. He was part of the
41:05
Speaker 1: US government's crash retrieval program. Lou Alizonda, what is that
41:12
Speaker 1: the crash retrieval program?
41:16
Speaker 8: Well, well, first of all, Nancy, is a great question,
41:18
Speaker 8: and it's a question that I'm not allowed to answer.
41:22
Speaker 8: Let me just say this, I still maintain a security
41:26
Speaker 8: clearance with the United States government, and there are certain
41:29
Speaker 8: prohibitions that I have been told, and I've had to
41:32
Speaker 8: literally sign my name on a piece of paper saying
41:36
Speaker 8: that I would not discuss details about certain topics X
41:39
Speaker 8: y Z. The notion of crash retrievals, unfortunately, is one
41:43
Speaker 8: of them. It is still considered very sensitive in the
41:47
Speaker 8: US government, and I, unfortunately, you know, confirm or deny
41:51
Speaker 8: or elaborate very much at all on that topic. But
41:54
Speaker 8: what I can say is what you're saying was absolutely
41:57
Speaker 8: what was communicated as well to Congress that mister Sullivan
42:00
Speaker 8: here had some sort of affiliation with legacy efforts and
42:05
Speaker 8: potentially reverse engineering.
42:07
Speaker 1: The UFO Crash Retrieval Operation dubbed the Legacy Program. That's
42:14
Speaker 1: what we're talking about, and Shepherd was into it up
42:18
Speaker 1: to his eyeballs. Before we go to Special Guest Frank
42:22
Speaker 1: Milburn to tie this all together with the suspicious death
42:27
Speaker 1: of his friend Amy Escres, to doctor Kendall Crowns adjoining us.
42:31
Speaker 1: He is the chief medical examiner in Terran County, that's
42:35
Speaker 1: Fort Worth. He is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett
42:40
Speaker 1: School of Medicine at TCU. He's a star of Hit
42:42
Speaker 1: podcast made him in the Morgue. His lighter side, doctor
42:46
Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns. How is it someone can be pronounced dead
42:50
Speaker 1: via heart attack because they're fat, because they're overweight. They
42:55
Speaker 1: just died of a heart attack with no toxicology, no autopsy,
43:00
Speaker 1: no medical examiner sign off, nothing, who said heart attack?
43:04
Speaker 10: So it depends on the jurisdictions. Some medical examiner offices
43:08
Speaker 10: or coroner's offices will actually sign cases out over the
43:12
Speaker 10: phone with a medical history known complications like morbid obesity,
43:17
Speaker 10: if they have or known to have heart disease, they'll
43:20
Speaker 10: use that to make the decision of calling it athward
43:24
Speaker 10: square car diivaster disease or a heart attack over the phone. Now,
43:28
Speaker 10: it just depends on the jurisdiction.
43:31
Speaker 1: In Tarrying, tell me this is LA Are you telling me?
43:37
Speaker 1: This is like tele adoc. They get some information over
43:41
Speaker 1: the phone, they go, okay, yeah, I write it off
43:42
Speaker 1: as heart attack.
43:45
Speaker 10: So yes, and some jurisdictions they will do that and
43:48
Speaker 10: they will base it on age, medical history, things of
43:51
Speaker 10: that nature. My problem is is you have an individual
43:54
Speaker 10: who's too young. I mean, he's under fifty found dead
43:59
Speaker 10: just because the wait doesn't mean he necessarily had a
44:01
Speaker 10: heart attack. He should be evaluated and looked at to
44:05
Speaker 10: make sure he did have heart disease and did die
44:08
Speaker 10: from that and not something else like an overdose or
44:11
Speaker 10: something nefarious. But he should have been looked at. But
44:15
Speaker 10: again it's jurisdictional. Some places the cut off is forty
44:19
Speaker 10: five and they won't even look at him.
44:21
Speaker 1: To Frank Milburn joining us a very dear friend of
44:25
Speaker 1: scientist Amy Escridge found dead. Milburn is a former British
44:31
Speaker 1: intelligence officer. He spoke with Amy just hours before her death.
44:37
Speaker 1: He does not believe she killed herself, and he is
44:40
Speaker 1: very familiar with the technology on which she was working,
44:44
Speaker 1: as well as directed energy weapons reportedly used against her.
44:51
Speaker 1: Frank Milburn, after all you have heard tonight, including the
44:55
Speaker 1: names of two additional scientists missing and died. How do
45:03
Speaker 1: you compare that to Amy's case? What do you think
45:08
Speaker 1: is happening?
45:10
Speaker 5: Well, it literally makes the hair stand up on my neck,
45:13
Speaker 5: the hair that I do have. Yeah, I think it's
45:16
Speaker 5: very concerning. I mean, anytime that you have people who
45:18
Speaker 5: are effectively walking encyclopedias on these kind of technologies, whether
45:24
Speaker 5: it's exotic propulsion, nuclear and who have you worked for.
45:29
Speaker 7: Government departments and classified programs.
45:32
Speaker 5: Then there's a you know, a counterintelligence red flag goes up,
45:36
Speaker 5: and you know, these things need to be investigated. In
45:38
Speaker 5: Amy's case, I've continued my own investigations, and in the
45:42
Speaker 5: case of where you know, she was accusing people of
45:45
Speaker 5: corporate espionage, documented and receiving harassment from people who themselves
45:51
Speaker 5: have you know, documented histories of legal problems because of
45:57
Speaker 5: you know, violence against women and so making violent threats
46:01
Speaker 5: against her and other people. So that's extremely concerning to me,
46:05
Speaker 5: and it's extremely concerning seeing these other signers. I'm still
46:09
Speaker 5: I don't have the FBI you know, bird's eye view,
46:12
Speaker 5: but I'm hoping that they will investigate, you know, all
46:14
Speaker 5: of these cases on their merits, you know, individually, whether
46:16
Speaker 5: there's some kind of like you know, overarching conspiracy or not.
46:20
Speaker 5: And I hope so in the Amy Scoris case, that
46:23
Speaker 5: they also revisit the FBI investigation into her in twenty
46:27
Speaker 5: twenty two, because Amy said that she was speaking to
46:29
Speaker 5: the FBI for three months prior to her death in
46:32
Speaker 5: twenty twenty two, and then she was told by the FBI.
46:34
Speaker 5: This is her words through me, saying she was told
46:37
Speaker 5: that the FBI don't have quote jurisdiction to investigate her case,
46:42
Speaker 5: which I find very, very worrying because I had passed
46:44
Speaker 5: the FBI. I had passed this information to the FBI
46:47
Speaker 5: via a third party, precisely because I saw this as
46:50
Speaker 5: a big counter intelligence red flag, given who she was,
46:53
Speaker 5: given who her father is, and given what they were
46:56
Speaker 5: both working on at the Institute for Exotic Science.
46:58
Speaker 1: What goes through your mind when you hear about another
47:02
Speaker 1: and another and another scientist missing or did this time
47:07
Speaker 1: from a boulder attack, the other because of a heart
47:13
Speaker 1: attack with no medical examiner's report. I mean, it just
47:16
Speaker 1: goes on and on.
47:18
Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, I mean I agree with with with Lou,
47:21
Speaker 5: and you know, being an old counter intelligence by myself
47:24
Speaker 5: like he was, I relate in one hundred percent of
47:30
Speaker 5: what he's saying, and he was spot on about the
47:31
Speaker 5: vehicle as well, the lack of vehicular damage. And it's
47:35
Speaker 5: extremely concerning. As I say, it's a counter intelligence red
47:38
Speaker 5: flag or red flags.
47:43
Speaker 1: Red flags up in the plural. Yes, And finally back
47:48
Speaker 1: to Lou Alessando joining US former US Army counter intelligence
47:53
Speaker 1: special Agent, former Director Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. The
48:01
Speaker 1: reason I keep reading out your qualifications and Frank's qualifications
48:07
Speaker 1: and everyone on the panel tonight is because you, many
48:13
Speaker 1: of you, have been given top clearances by the US government,
48:19
Speaker 1: as have these victims. They cannot be written off as crackpots.
48:29
Speaker 1: That Ingrid was written off, the way that Amy is
48:31
Speaker 1: written off, trying to paint them as drug abusers that
48:36
Speaker 1: did not happen. Matthew Sullivan did not have a drug
48:39
Speaker 1: problem and he wasn't taking pills for child's bedwetting. I
48:45
Speaker 1: want to hear your thoughts, Lou, and I want to
48:47
Speaker 1: hear you mentioned it, but you didn't go into it
48:51
Speaker 1: about threats or harassment that you received.
48:57
Speaker 8: Yep, No, you're absolutely correct, at Nancy, myself and many
49:01
Speaker 8: of my colleagues have been subject to those harassment and
49:04
Speaker 8: threat campaigns. It's we've had our security clearances threatened. You know.
49:10
Speaker 8: I hate to say it, but there's a reason why
49:12
Speaker 8: I live in the middle of nowhere with five German
49:14
Speaker 8: shepherds and I'm heavily armed. The reality is that we've
49:17
Speaker 8: been told by several individuals, some of them law enforcements,
49:21
Speaker 8: some of them even members of Congress who said, hey, look,
49:23
Speaker 8: you know, they are very upset with what you guys
49:26
Speaker 8: are doing, and you're putting a mark on yourself. Fortunately,
49:30
Speaker 8: in my case, I think because I have enough public
49:32
Speaker 8: persona that maybe it's a little more difficult to just
49:36
Speaker 8: do something and make it look like an accident. But look,
49:39
Speaker 8: governments are fully capable of doing this, and this is
49:41
Speaker 8: not conspiracy. People say, well, our government wouldn't do that. Well,
49:44
Speaker 8: if that's the case, I would encourage anybody to look
49:47
Speaker 8: up the term mk ultra, where the CIA had administered
49:52
Speaker 8: LSD to unsuspecting civilians, resulting in the death of at
49:56
Speaker 8: least one. Look at things like the Tuskegee experiment, where
50:00
Speaker 8: we allowed human beings to be infected with syphilis and
50:02
Speaker 8: allowed syphilis to go to its conclusion, which ultimately is death.
50:06
Speaker 8: Even though we had the antibiotics to protect these individuals,
50:10
Speaker 8: just in the name of science, we allowed these individuals
50:12
Speaker 8: to die. So there's a long list of things that
50:17
Speaker 8: we have done that have not been very good or
50:19
Speaker 8: kind to our citizens in the past. I hope it's
50:23
Speaker 8: not the case that they would still be doing that,
50:26
Speaker 8: but I also know from personal experience that that they
50:29
Speaker 8: are very capable of doing it.
50:30
Speaker 1: Now.
50:30
Speaker 8: Also, one thing too you mentioned very interesting when we
50:33
Speaker 8: look at intelligence, and Frank will tell you the same thing.
50:36
Speaker 8: In counter intelligence specifically, there are things we call trade craft.
50:40
Speaker 8: It's kind of tools of the trade, how we do
50:42
Speaker 8: business or how we ask others, like sources to do business.
50:46
Speaker 8: And this one individual, we keep going back to that
50:48
Speaker 8: car with with the alleged boulder that broke into into
50:51
Speaker 8: the back of it. The individual was found with a
50:55
Speaker 8: burner phone, if I'm if I'm if I'm correct, And
50:59
Speaker 8: a burner phone very interesting because a burner phone is
51:02
Speaker 8: used when you want to communicate with somebody, but you
51:04
Speaker 8: want to do it in secret, You want to do
51:08
Speaker 8: it clandestinely. Because a burner phone isn't necessarily assigned to
51:12
Speaker 8: you through one of the various carriers. A burner phone
51:16
Speaker 8: really doesn't have an identity. And so the question is
51:19
Speaker 8: why was this top scientist carrying around with them a
51:23
Speaker 8: burner phone. Usually, again, burner phones are used to convey
51:27
Speaker 8: information that you don't want other people to know that
51:29
Speaker 8: you're conveying. Was this person going to be another whistleblower? Potentially?
51:34
Speaker 8: Was this person having a conversation already perhaps with somebody
51:38
Speaker 8: in our government, perhaps maybe even a journalist. Right, we
51:43
Speaker 8: simply don't know. But the fact that the person was
51:46
Speaker 8: never found, the cars in the condition that is in,
51:48
Speaker 8: they were found with a burner phone, these are all
51:51
Speaker 8: things to me that raised my eyebrow, and I'm hopeful
51:56
Speaker 8: that the FBI will continue to track this down. I
52:00
Speaker 8: think there's enough information there. Look, there's enough if somebody
52:02
Speaker 8: wants to disappear now today's day and age, it's very difficult.
52:06
Speaker 8: There's something we call digital exhaust, and anytime you log
52:09
Speaker 8: onto anything, whether it's an email account or a bank
52:12
Speaker 8: account or hospital records, you leave a little bit of
52:15
Speaker 8: electronic exhaust in your wake, and that can be found
52:19
Speaker 8: trained professionals within the US Marshall Service with an FBI,
52:24
Speaker 8: they know how to track down individuals. So the fact
52:26
Speaker 8: that a lot of these people remain missing for me
52:28
Speaker 8: is even greater concern because it's as if they just disappeared.
52:33
Speaker 8: There's no evidence, there's no trace left behind other than
52:38
Speaker 8: stuff that is quite frankly, rather suspicious. So I think
52:42
Speaker 8: I think we have a right to ask the questions
52:45
Speaker 8: that we're asking, and it may turn out that this
52:47
Speaker 8: list that you are compiling may be considerably larger, and
52:52
Speaker 8: I hope that's not the case, but it is quite
52:54
Speaker 8: possible that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
52:58
Speaker 8: And if that's the case, then you know we're going
53:00
Speaker 8: to have to have a much more difficult conversation amongst ourselves.
53:05
Speaker 1: Speaking of the burner phone, Lou, it is reminiscent of
53:09
Speaker 1: the missing mom Melissa Cassius, who takes her daughter a
53:13
Speaker 1: subway sandwich for lunch, then disappears. She left on foot,
53:20
Speaker 1: no cell phone, no wallet, no purse, no keys, but
53:27
Speaker 1: when her items were searched, the cell phone, personal and
53:33
Speaker 1: work phone had both been factory reset before she went
53:38
Speaker 1: on a walk. Interesting she worked with Chevez at Los Alamos.
53:44
Speaker 1: Chevez also missing. Now we have Ingrid Lane turning up
53:48
Speaker 1: missing with a burner phone, her car disabled by a
53:52
Speaker 1: boulder attack, which, based on your observations, clearly did not happen.
53:58
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything regarding our
54:03
Speaker 1: missing and dead no medical examiner report for cod please
54:10
Speaker 1: dial toll free eight hundred call FBI. That's eight hundred
54:16
Speaker 1: two two five five three two four. We remember American
54:21
Speaker 1: hero Officer Don Keller, Greenwood PD, South Carolina at thirty one,
54:27
Speaker 1: killed in the line of duty after just three years
54:29
Speaker 1: on the force, leaving behind his wife now widow, Allison,
54:35
Speaker 1: and a two year old little girl. Sentenced to life
54:39
Speaker 1: without dad. American hero Officer Don Keller. Thank you to
54:45
Speaker 1: our guest, but especially to you for being with us tonight.
54:48
Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but I'll see you
54:50
Speaker 1: tomorrow night, and until then, good night friend,