Latest / Muppet Fan Podcasts with ToughPigs.com / Fraggle Talk: Back to the Rock - Ep. 213 "Hope and Socks"

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Fraggle Talk: Back to the Rock - Ep. 213 "Hope and Socks" · Muppet Fan Podcasts with ToughPigs.com

0:09
Hello and welcome to Fraggle Talk Back to the Rock, the
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unofficial Fraggle Rock podcast brought to you by toughpigs.com.
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This is the podcast where we cover Fraggle Rock Back to the
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Rock episode by episode, along with the talented producers,
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performers, writers and builders who helped put it all together.
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I'm your host, silly creature Joe Hennes.
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Today we are talking about the final episode of Season 2, Hope
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and Socks, in which we find a satisfying ending, a new
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beginning and answers to all of our sock related questions.
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Joining us for this finale talk are two guests who truly brought
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back to the rock, back to life. First is the executive producer
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of the series and the Jim Benson Company's president of
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television. It's Hallie Stanford.
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Hello, Hallie. Hello.
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So I feel like I'm on a game show, like I should be running
0:57
in like. Yeah, come on down.
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Our 2nd guest is the Executive producer, writer, director,
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puppeteer, Fraggle, Doozer and Sheepdog.
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It's John Tartaglia. Hey, Johnny.
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I can honestly say I've never been called a sheepdog before.
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And I'm like, all right, like it's true.
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It's, that's what the fuck it is.
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I'm going to embrace it. That's right, Yeah, we all have
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a. Little sheepdog inside of us.
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We all. We all have a little sprocket
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inside of us, yes? That's right.
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Thank you both so much for joining and I, I'm so happy to
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have you here, but I'm so sad that this is the final episode
1:35
of the season, but it's been such a trip to get to revisit
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back to the Rock Season 2 through this podcast series.
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I hope everyone's really enjoyed all these conversations that
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we've had. And I'm just kind of, I mean,
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I'm happy that the two of you are here to kind of say farewell
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to the season of the podcast as well.
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Yes, big group hug. That's right.
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Yeah, very. Frankly, very frankly, for now,
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I'll see you soon. Yes.
2:03
So first, I hate to like bring up something that might be a
2:07
little a bit of a sad memory potentially, but can you tell me
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about what your last day on set was for Season 2?
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It, it was shooting this episode and I'm trying to remember.
2:20
My goodness, I, I barely remember like what the actual
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last shot was, but I remember what I, what the distinct memory
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I have is that the scene where everyone's celebrating at the
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end when all the Fraggles are celebrating in the garden and,
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and we do that nice little Fraggle group hug at the end.
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I think that was the last day. And you know, it was nice 'cause
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it was the whole company was there.
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And, and you know, we're, we, we're such a close knit group,
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you know, in every way, the cast and the crew and the creative
2:47
team, everybody. So it was a nice way to kind of
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because of the message of the episode and the hope for, you
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know, the future and hope for new beginnings.
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It felt very much like that. And we wrote a lot of tears and
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a lot of, a lot of, you know, I'm gonna miss you, gonna miss
3:00
you. And then, you know, we had a
3:02
wrap party the next day. And so we were excited about
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that. So we knew we'd see each other
3:05
again before we all went our separate ways.
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But it was a, it was that kind of melancholy mix of like lots
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of laughter and also lots of tears.
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Yeah, I wasn't there for the wrap party.
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I had to go back early and miss it, although my husband was
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there who's the set decorator. So I heard all about it and the
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crazy. But I, you know, for me, just, I
3:29
was trying to capture each moment.
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So I actually did video everybody and asked them, you
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know, give me 3 words that describe what Fraggle Rock means
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to you. And honestly, you be you.
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You be moved to tears because it was everyone from, you know,
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first a DS to crafty to, you know, RDP, just saying what they
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felt and it was all very loving, emotional, awe inspiring.
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What a wonderful, wonderful group of people.
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We were all very, very proud of what we'd done.
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I I wouldn't say I wasn't there for the wrap party.
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So I don't know if there were tears, but I would say it's just
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an immense amount of pride and joy and and love just that
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that's what I remember the last feelings of, of being on set in
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Calgary. And then I would give, I gave
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one last look and one LastPass by all the, the beautiful sets.
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I'm like, I'm gonna walk in the Gorg's garden.
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I'm gonna, I'm gonna sit in the, you know, in the Great Hall.
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I'm gonna, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna take it all in before it's
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all taken down. Yeah, actually on that, on that
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note, there's one of my favorite photos I have is I think I
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posted on Instagram, Jordan Lockhart took it of me sitting
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on like like a ladder in the Great Hall.
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And it was like the day before we knew they were gonna take it
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down. And it was like, I think that
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was actually the last shoot day, if I, if I recall correctly.
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I remember that was just like such a, you know, I, I had the
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same feeling, Halle. I was like, I just want to like
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be in the set one more time just in case.
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You never know if we're going to do more or not.
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And I was like, I just want to feel it and take it in one more
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time. And and yeah, very special
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moment. What what did you do with the
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video of of all these folks giving their their 3 words about
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Fraggle Rock? Would you like to see?
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Them. I posted them on social media on
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my stories, you know when that day it was done but happy to
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share. Yeah, we.
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Post it. That's a reason to follow Hallie
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on social media, everybody. You might be missing out on
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these things. Allie Stanford, that is me,
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honestly. Exclusive.
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Yeah, I will. I'm happy to post it.
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It was so loving, so wonderful. Oh, I'm sure, yeah.
5:33
So you guys have had some really great celebrities on this past
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season like Catherine O'Hara and Brett Goldstein and got David
5:39
Diggs back and wonderful list. Do you have a celebrity wish
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list for a potential Season 3? We always have people that we
5:48
look at and we well, for you know, first of all, that's the
5:50
magic of Frogger Rock, right, Is that we constantly hear from
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celebrities how Frogger Rock was their favorite kid show or it
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was the show, especially musical people.
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They're often times like this is the show that made me wanted to
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be a musician or this is the show I felt most attracted to
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because of the music, not knowing I was going to be a
6:05
musician. But I think we always we'll sit
6:08
in meetings and kind of joke about like, Oh my gosh, that
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person would be such a great Fraggle or that person, you
6:13
know, has Fraggle energy or something like that.
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So I think we have kind of like unofficial back pocket list that
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we always kind of, you know, think about and refer to.
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And then there's people like Brett Goldstein, who was so
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obsessed with puppets and so obsessed with Fraggles and wants
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to be a puppeteer and was wanted to, you know, wasn't just
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excited to be on the show because, you know, he just
6:31
wanted to be on the show. But he he was obsessed with like
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the look of the puppets and how they're made.
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I mean, he literally held Moki when we brought Moki out because
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Moki was his favorite, I guess as a kid.
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Like she was like, I don't know, like the the missing treasure,
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Eighth wonder of the world. It was amazing.
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It was amazing to see that. So yeah, we have a lot of a lot
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of wish list celebrities, I think.
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I think a lot of about rock stars that we want on like I
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want I want to see pink with red.
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I I honestly do. I think that would be hilarious
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and I'm a big fan. So I I don't know.
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I just, I kind of go to the musical place Johnny in my head.
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I know. You're totally right, yeah.
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But come on, admit it, You want Céline Dion?
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Say it. She.
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And Dolly Parton, she and the I'm putting it out there right
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now, OK, Céline Dion and Dolly Parton, listen to the podcast.
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They literally have a we will make seasons 13141516 if they
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want to do it. Like that's how much I want them
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on the show. I will say to Holly's point, we
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we were so happy. And I guess this ties into this
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episode. We were so happy with how people
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reacted to the Espa video with uncle traveling Matt And you
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know, we kind of like lightly hit that in the first season
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with the Foo Fighters who were amazing.
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And then with Espa, it was like, you know, their fans became
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Fraggle fans, Fraggle fans became Espa fans and, and we,
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you know, went, the video went viral.
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It was crazy. And it was like, I think there's
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just such a, there's a beautiful blend of like, like how he's
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saying like rock stars and Fraggles.
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It just kind of goes together. Maybe sports stars too See now
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we're brainstorming and you're watching and you're like, wait,
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we could we could get like messy on like let's get like some
8:00
international like athletes. That would be.
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Get messy on to play a little bit of rock hockey.
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Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
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Speaking of hockey, I do want to, I want to tell you how
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awesome Brett Goldstein is, is that we had a, you may not know
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this because we had a Breckle Rock hockey team.
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We were called the Doozers. And when we had to go play
8:18
against Fargo, the production of Fargo, Brett Goldstein, I asked
8:22
him if he'd do this and he did. He made a video as Roy Kent,
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coaching them to, you know, go and kick some ass.
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It was amazing it was happening. I love that he's really a great.
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Guy. What a guy.
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So obviously there's so much more to Fraggle Rock than just
8:40
the Back to the Rock series, and we know that you guys are
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working on a lot of other stuff. Can you talk at all about what
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you're working on that's connected to the Fraggle Rock
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franchise? Sure.
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Well, I mean, the the biggest thing that I'm most excited
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about and I don't know when this will air, but it'll probably be
8:54
in the in the location of of when this will happen is we're
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launching for the very first time ever Fraggle Rock Live,
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which is gonna be a live, you know, version of the show.
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It's never been done in 40 something years of the of the of
9:07
the characters existing and the show existing.
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So when I was Johnny. Explain what that means a live
9:12
theater for. Oh yeah, it's a live theater.
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So it's basically it's if you, if you've ever seen Sesame
9:16
Street live or you've seen no, The Muppets Show live at Disney
9:19
World or anything like that, it's basically, you know, walk
9:22
around versions of the Fraggles and then everything gets scaled
9:24
up because of that, right. So you have hand puppet sized
9:26
users walk around Fraggles giant Gorgs lot brand new creatures
9:30
that we're creating just for the show.
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And it's really, you know, it's a full musical.
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You know, it's two acts. It's it's an original story.
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The the the creature shot builds everything.
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And so it's of course beautiful and looks exactly like the
9:42
characters. And it's really thrilling
9:44
because when I was a kid that's such a Fraggle fan, you know, I
9:47
would dream of going to see like the fraggles live and meeting
9:50
them in person. So now the Fraggles get to go
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to, you know, kids, hometowns and, and families in there and
9:55
their kids can meet the characters and there's like Avip
9:58
meet and greet where you can meet the characters afterwards,
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get your photo with them. And it's going to be really,
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really special. And, and the amount of love that
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everyone has put into making this happen, it's just kind of
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unlike anything. Well, actually, it's very much
10:08
in the spirit of the series. It's everyone working at their
10:10
highest level because they want the show to be as great as
10:13
possible. So that's really exciting. 40 to
10:15
9 cities launching in January. You can go to
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fragglerocklive.com to find out all about it.
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That's soon. That's like really soon.
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That's. Very soon.
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It's very soon. Wow.
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Wait, I have to brag about Johnny on it because he'll never
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brag about himself, Which is Johnny wrote it and directed it
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and like, this is like, you know, his dream.
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Like this is all things John Tartaglia coming to be like
10:37
Broadway and theater and Fraggles.
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When I walked on the stage and he was auditioning the the
10:45
performers for today, it was like chorus line.
10:47
It was like bump, bump. And he's like dancing with them.
10:51
It was like amazing. It's gonna be so good, Yeah.
10:55
We have the greatest cast and you know, and it's been fun for
10:58
all of the, the voices of the Fraggles too, because it's like,
11:01
you know, to get to see these characters live beyond just the
11:04
puppets on her arms. So, so that's happening.
11:07
Then we're working on some new, there's always a bunch of great
11:10
new merchandise coming out. I can't tell you too many
11:13
details, but some really fun stuff, some publishing things.
11:16
There's, there's actually lots of wonderful fractal projects
11:18
coming down the line and fractal things.
11:20
So it's, it's, you know, I, I, there's that great line from Red
11:24
in season 1 where she's like, what a time to be a, what a
11:26
great time to be a Fraggle or what a time to be a Fraggle.
11:28
So I, I keep thinking that in my hand.
11:29
I'm like, you know, I'm, I'm proud of the stuff that we're
11:32
able to do with the characters and with the franchise.
11:35
Yeah, we've always said, you know, in those times between,
11:39
you know, for basically for like through the 90s and the early
11:41
2000s up until back to the Rock appeared that I, you know, like
11:47
the way to keep Fraggle Rock in the public eye or one of the
11:50
ways to keep it in the public eye is just to have merchandise
11:53
on the shelves, like have the thing that the person can hold
11:55
in their hands. So that when Fraggle Rock does
11:58
another production, you're not trying to say, OK, let me tell
12:00
you who the Fraggles are. Let me reintroduce France of the
12:02
new audience because they've always been here.
12:04
And so I'm really glad to hear that there's gonna be more
12:06
stuff. There's gonna be like the tour
12:08
sounds amazing. We're gonna have to talk more
12:10
about the tour when it gets. It'll be original merchandise at
12:12
the tour, by the way, so if you're a Fraggle fan, you want
12:15
to get the stuff. It's really cool.
12:17
No, but to your point, it's really funny.
12:18
I, I think that that that's been our big mission and and Holly
12:20
and I are both passionate about this.
12:21
Is that like, you know, because of the way Frackle rock aired in
12:24
the 80s, you know, behind a paywall on HBO and just kind of,
12:27
you know, being this, most people did not have HBO in the
12:30
80s, as much as everyone talks about it, like very few people
12:32
had it. And so it was always the show
12:33
that if you knew about you were like in this cool, cool club.
12:37
And if you didn't know it, you might know the theme song, but
12:39
you it seemed like this distant thing.
12:40
So there there are a lot of people who did not go up with
12:42
it. And so I think that was our goal
12:43
was like, this time around, let's make sure that we really,
12:46
for lack of way of saying it, we really surface them and we
12:49
really get the characters out there and expand the Canon a
12:53
little bit that the Fraggles can come up to our world when they
12:55
want to, you know, and so that we can really make people aware
12:58
of it because the franchise will only survive if if people want
13:01
them to be there. So you really need people to
13:04
invest in that and care about the characters.
13:05
And I think you're right, merchandise having that, I mean
13:08
those great Little Tikes dolls that we came out with and the
13:10
little, have you seen the Little Tikes sprocket, the big
13:12
Sprocket? Dolls.
13:13
My God, it looks gorgeous, right?
13:15
Yeah, and they really worked hard.
13:17
All the people, Little Tikes worked so hard to make them as
13:19
on model as possible. So, you know, it's pretty crazy
13:22
in our world today that we have that out there on shelves.
13:24
It makes me really, really happy.
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Me too, me too. I'm so happy to have new fraggle
13:29
stuff and I am getting it because I mean, I have to.
13:34
That's the. Rule that's.
13:35
Right. If there's new Fraggle stuff,
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then people like us, we have to just get it and that's it.
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So let's talk about this episode.
13:44
I really want to dive into this finale with both of you.
13:47
It opens where we left off last week in the Gorg's garden and
13:50
there's no wind to get that turbine moving.
13:53
And we have this great overhead shot of red standing on the
13:56
Gorg's table and she's like looking up at the windmill.
13:58
I love we talked last week about there was several really great
14:03
over the head shots of the fragments in the previous
14:06
episode. And I'm glad to see like it
14:08
wasn't just like, oh, we did a little shtick for, you know, for
14:10
episode 12, like 13. Here we are again.
14:13
And you know, she's still, we get, we still get to see her
14:16
little feet from above. Yeah, that was really JJ
14:18
Johnson. He, he's so brilliant and he, he
14:21
loves pushing the boundaries of what puppets can do and what
14:23
visuals can do. And I remember when he was
14:26
pitching that to us, we were like, OK, like this is going to
14:29
be hard, but we can do it. And and it I'm so glad we did
14:32
because it looks beautiful, looks so beautiful.
14:35
Every director brought something different, but JJ definitely was
14:37
the one that always tried to push the visual, you know, to
14:41
play with it in that way. And so I thought the same thing,
14:43
Johnny, like AJJ specialty. Yeah, well, and the the next
14:48
shot, I mean, we're talking about a beautiful shot
14:51
immediately afterward is red is looking at the sunrise.
14:54
We see the sun come over her face and she's looking out at I
14:59
guess Gorg farmland and and hills.
15:02
And we had. So many conversations about
15:04
that, 'cause I was like, this is breaking a 4th wall that has
15:07
never been broken. And I know everything up there,
15:10
myself included, when I was good, was like, what's beyond
15:12
that garden? What does it look like?
15:13
So if you actually look really, really closely, if you pause it,
15:16
you'll see there's lots of little details like in that
15:19
background and they and the our visual effects department's been
15:21
so long and so many drafts back and forth to make sure that it
15:24
was in the world and it was right.
15:26
And you know, it was, it's, I remember when we shot that even
15:29
Karen Prell was like, she's like, this is gonna be like
15:32
ground breaking in the world of Fraggle rock.
15:33
That was being beyond. I was like, I know, I was like,
15:35
it's so exciting to see like, what's beyond there.
15:38
Yeah, well, and it's confirmation that, you know, the
15:40
Gorg's Garden isn't just, like, behind Doc's Workshop.
15:44
You know, it's not just, like, walled off.
15:45
And we just happened to never run into the Gorgs.
15:48
Like, there is a whole world out there.
15:50
And I don't know. I mean, these are the kinds of
15:52
teases that you, you all are giving us of, you know, if we
15:56
get a Season 3, are we going to see more of that?
15:58
Are we going to have more characters who are coming out
16:00
from the world into the Gorg's Garden?
16:04
My. Potential out there.
16:06
I can't get over the potential. We like the world building.
16:10
We like we like sort of creating the possibilities and letting
16:14
the viewers fill it in in their imaginations too.
16:17
That's the lore, right? That's like every great
16:19
franchise for this Dark Crystal Age of Resistance or it's, you
16:22
know, Lord of the Rings or like, you know, where there's this,
16:26
you're not just creating a set of characters or location,
16:28
you're creating the whole world. And I've always loved that about
16:30
Fraggle rock that it's like, what are those little weird bugs
16:32
in the quarter? Like what are they called?
16:33
But like, and you never find out that they're just they're there.
16:36
And that means that that's a that that species exists and
16:38
that they are alive and they have a purpose.
16:40
And I think that's the magic of this world.
16:42
Is that there you just never to your point, like maybe there are
16:45
more things out there, maybe who knows?
16:47
Maybe there's more Gorgs out there.
16:48
We don't know. We they think they're the last
16:49
of their kind. Are they?
16:50
We don't know. Yeah, and it's, I mean, really,
16:54
you're feeding people like me who who are.
16:57
We're the ones who are going like, there's a bug there.
16:59
I've never seen that bug before. I literally have notes about
17:02
this episode about bugs. Yeah.
17:04
And I'm like, I've never seen that bug on Fraggle Rock.
17:06
What does that mean? It's.
17:09
Well, we also had a lot of conversations about.
17:11
I know you're going to get to the question, but about babies
17:15
too, So a lot of. Spoiler alert, Oh my God.
17:19
We're we need another hour to talk about Gork babies.
17:22
Yeah, we will. We will get there soon.
17:23
So in in the seat first again, like beautiful shot.
17:26
It's so brief and I know you put it in the trailers too.
17:29
And I was grateful for that because this is one of the most
17:31
beautiful shots in the season of red looking out on the farm
17:34
lands and the sun is rising and it the colors are just popping.
17:39
Beautiful shot and Red has this epiphany and she runs back to
17:43
Fraggle Rock where everyone is fast asleep.
17:46
And here we see Cotter Pin and the Architect sleeping in their
17:50
little dozer car. And I love that the Architect is
17:52
using a toolbox as a pillow, which does not look comfortable.
17:56
And he's holding a tiny little Doozer doll.
17:58
That that thing must be how? Small was that.
18:02
It was literally like maybe an inch, like it was so that I
18:05
couldn't believe they asked that.
18:06
They said like they created that.
18:07
So small. It was amazing.
18:08
That was our amazing team in Calgary that made that.
18:10
They're incredible. How do you knit something that
18:13
tiny? I mean, I assume it's knitted.
18:15
I don't know, I think it. Was, I think it was they, they,
18:18
you would walk in the shop. That's why I love the creature
18:20
shop, because you'd be walking in and like, you know, you're
18:22
shooting something and you're tired and it's like late at
18:24
night, you're about to go home and you walk in and there's all
18:26
these brilliant minds in there just like gluing and sewing and
18:29
creating. And like you would walk over to
18:31
the Doozer area, there'd be someone making little Doozer
18:33
dolls or little Doozer babies with weird hair and they.
18:36
Would always make things too, and sort of like, I don't want
18:40
to say pitch them to us, but they would make them without
18:42
asking to in the hopes that they would be used.
18:45
Yeah, they always were. I was that actually makes me
18:49
think, is there something that they made and you're like, you
18:51
got you can't put that in the show.
18:53
Like, is there something that just.
18:56
Yeah, that doesn't seem. I don't know.
18:57
Is there anything inappropriate? No, never.
19:00
Nothing. They would.
19:01
All the alcohol bottles, the beer.
19:04
Cake I'm. Kidding.
19:05
We didn't do that. I'm kidding.
19:07
I'm trying to think of like there might have been less, less
19:11
about like, oh, we shouldn't do that and more like sometimes you
19:14
just can't fit it all in. Like I think that they they
19:16
overbuilt to the point where you're just like you like Jordan
19:19
Canning. I remember our one of our
19:20
incredible directors and producing director for season 2.
19:22
Like I remember her, her episode in season 1 with the big Doozer
19:26
helmet party where they're all in those crazy, like outlandish.
19:29
It was like she was like, Oh my God, like with the carnival and
19:32
she's like, how am I going to shoot?
19:33
Like we shot probably an hour worth of footage of that that
19:36
made 30 seconds of it made into the into the show.
19:38
So they just over delivered constantly in the best possible
19:41
way. I think the only time we were
19:42
like, can we get away with this actually, to your point was when
19:45
they built some of the Wizard of Oz gags in the first episode of
19:48
season 2 during the windstorm. Because you know, like, like the
19:52
ink spot dressed as like the cow or like the old lady knitting.
19:56
But actually it just it was just like, you know what, like let's
19:58
make this as fraggle silly as possible.
20:00
Why not? Look, Wizard of Oz does not own
20:04
the idea of an ink spot riding a flying bicycle.
20:06
That's. Right, That's exactly right, ET.
20:09
Owns that, Yeah, exactly, exactly.
20:14
So Red tells Pogey to blow the fraggle horn to wake everybody
20:18
up. And there's a little moment
20:20
where where Pogey starts to blow into the wrong end that's going
20:22
to come back later. And everyone wakes up and she
20:27
says what they really need to fix the turbine problem is hope.
20:32
Now, this feels like a huge reversal for Red.
20:35
Like this is the kind of thing that I feel like Moki would have
20:38
said or one of the characters would have said Hope and Red
20:40
would have gone Hope, Are you crazy?
20:43
Like, we need to hit this thing with a hammer.
20:45
You know, like she's like, she's all about action.
20:47
And it's does make me think. We talked to Karen Prela a few
20:51
weeks ago on this podcast, and she said that Red always gets
20:56
the most excited over her first idea, whatever it is.
21:00
So she's like, hope, great. We're running with it, no
21:02
questions. We're just going to keep going.
21:04
Was there a moment here in the scripting where you were like,
21:07
doesn't really feel like Red, but we want Red to be the star?
21:09
Or is it just like? Nope, that makes sense.
21:12
Well-being in the writers room, I think I it's two things.
21:15
I think first of all, it's you know, we want we we love
21:18
discovering other sides of characters that are unexpected,
21:22
you know, like, you know, you look at Gobo when he cries in
21:25
episode 10, right? Like when he loses his mind for
21:28
that moment, you know, like that was a little bit like we're
21:30
pushing that level with him, you know, or when Wembley becomes a
21:33
spokes Fraggle in season 1, you know, like, and with Red red,
21:35
such a brilliant character, first of all, because Karen is
21:37
such a genius performer and has added so many layers to her.
21:42
But also, you know, to your point, like she runs with her
21:44
first idea, but when she's passionate about something,
21:46
she's passionate about it. And she's not like 40%
21:49
passionate. She's 100% passionate about it.
21:51
So, so there was that. And also Holly Stanford, you
21:55
know, her big mission in life is to give kids hope.
21:58
And you know, she kind of I, I want to say you coined this
22:00
phrase, maybe you didn't, but you, you in my life, you're the
22:03
first person who's ever said it of hope punk, making hope cool
22:06
for kids. And, you know, introducing kids
22:09
to the idea that like, because I think in our culture right now,
22:12
so much, so much of our humor is, is cynical and it's nasty
22:16
and it's hurtful. And it's about, it's about
22:19
finding the negative side of something and taunting it as
22:21
opposed to looking at the earnest.
22:23
Fraga Rock's very earnest. Like there's a lot of earnest
22:25
moments in Fraga Rock, which I love.
22:27
And I think so Haley really kind of, you know, challenged us to
22:30
embrace that for, for her families and their kids who are
22:32
dealing with a lot of, you know, anxiety and a lot of stressful
22:35
situations in the world. So we were really inspired by
22:37
that in the room and we brought that up and then, you know,
22:41
Halle is like red in her energy and her passion and like, you
22:43
know, driving everybody to give the best that they can give.
22:45
So I think it was, it was, it really came out of that
22:47
inspiration from Halle, honestly.
22:50
I love hearing that. Well, hope punk.
22:52
I did not coin the phrase. It is an existing phrase.
22:54
Darn it. When I read it so long ago, I
22:59
was like, oh, wait, this speaks to everything that, you know, we
23:02
do here at Henson because we are, you know, we are filled
23:07
with heart, but we're kind of cool.
23:09
I mean, you know, like we have David Bowie, man, he's the
23:11
Goblin King. He's the coolest.
23:14
So I, I was trying to remember when you asked that question
23:16
about Red, because I, it does seem obvious to give something
23:20
like sort of hope to a gobo or a Red.
23:24
But the punk of it is that Red's super cool and that message
23:29
coming from her, I think really means a lot to the Fraggles and
23:35
to the audience. So it just seemed more impactful
23:39
and powerful and maybe less obvious.
23:41
And so maybe that's, you know, the message that we have to say
23:44
to kids and families. You're, you're going to be
23:46
amongst people that go hope, just like you said, like you
23:50
thought Red was going to say that, but to see a character
23:53
kind of go through this journey, this up and down journey, her,
23:56
her hope and then her Nope. It's really important to see
24:00
that you have to just kind of just having hope is hard.
24:03
It's hard. It's something that has to be
24:04
maintained and nurtured and rallied.
24:08
And so who better to rally than than Red?
24:12
Well, and to Halley's point, you know, sometimes the, the
24:15
opposite we, we get inspired to like it's so much more fun to
24:18
write for the opposite side of a character sometimes.
24:20
Like it was fun to think of once we realize it was red, then
24:23
we're like, oh, but where does she go when she gets super down?
24:26
Because the one thing you almost never see is red going to a
24:29
super dark place like that. You know, she's usually like,
24:33
let's do it. Come on, Like she's usually the
24:35
like how I was saying the rallier.
24:36
And so it became really fun for us to think about like, Oh my
24:39
gosh, when she like, what if she literally tried to be boobers
24:44
contemporary in the Nope feel. And then what drives her up a
24:48
wall is that boober of all people ends up being the hopeful
24:51
1. And it's like she's like, what
24:52
do you do? So like that seems one of my
24:54
favorite teams because we'll get there.
24:55
But like that's one of the I think that's what became
24:58
exciting to us was like, let's take this character and do
25:01
exactly the opposite of what people expect and then realize
25:03
that like she really drives everybody.
25:06
Like when she loses hope, everyone loses hope.
25:09
Yeah, no, I love that. Yeah.
25:11
And I feel like we've seen a lot of that from Red in this season
25:14
too, where Red just has an idea in the the Culver Bowl birds
25:17
episode where it's just like, no, we're doing this thing and
25:19
everyone's just like, well, that's what we have to do now.
25:21
Because Red said, and it's not that she's the boss, but like,
25:24
it's just it's infectious. Whatever she does, it's so
25:26
infectious to everyone else. So in in the next scene here,
25:31
Red starts bouncing on her tail like a spring as she starts to
25:34
brainstorm. And then all the other Fraggles
25:35
do it too. This looks so good.
25:37
Whatever you guys are doing, it looks great.
25:39
And I mean, I can kind of picture whatever green screen or
25:43
matting off the puppeteers, whatever, it doesn't matter.
25:45
And I think the big reason is because the tail you've curled
25:49
into like a perfect spring. Yeah.
25:52
And did you that's? My fault, it's my fault.
25:57
Well, 'cause I wrote this episode and, and you know it,
26:00
there's a, there was a lot of plot exposition to get out in
26:03
this moment of like, we need to like explain, like how's this
26:06
gonna happen and what's the plan and what is hope and how does it
26:08
work? And it's a lot, it's a lot to
26:10
do. It's, you know, the, the, the
26:12
you are a dead person on, on puppet on a puppet show.
26:15
If you just have a bunch of characters talking, you know
26:18
what I mean? That's not what puppets do best.
26:19
Puppets do physical things best. They do adventure, they do
26:22
peril, they do emotion, but they're just sharing
26:26
information. It gets boring, you know, so you
26:28
have to think about ways to keep people engaged.
26:30
And so I think the feedback was they need to be doing something
26:33
super physical here or something.
26:34
We need to get the energy up. So this becomes a fun thing for
26:37
kids to pay attention to. And I stupidly had the idea of
26:40
like, what are they bounce on their tails when they're like
26:42
super like, that's how they're going to think.
26:43
And, you know, on paper and, and I mean, and I'm a puppeteer,
26:47
like I know what it takes to do this stuff.
26:49
It's my fault. I ruined everything.
26:51
But actually it ended the challenge that everyone got
26:53
really excited about because it was like, well, how do you
26:54
position the tail? Because you got to hide the arm
26:56
and the arm can't cut off the tail, so you have to spring it
26:58
around. And then it's like you can't
27:00
spring around because then you can see through it because the
27:01
blue screen. So like the creature shop
27:03
really, you know, came up with a brilliant way.
27:05
Basically, they moved the, the actual physical tails of the
27:08
puppets forward. So instead of being like on
27:10
their back, they were really almost right behind their legs
27:13
and they put a spring kind of coil inside of it with a rod.
27:16
And so we're literally basically, if you if you, it's
27:19
hard to do it on a podcast. But if you imagine basically our
27:21
arms behind the spring of the tail and we're controlling the
27:25
puppet bouncing up and down with a rod on the bottom of the tail
27:29
bouncing onto the surface. And then the blue screen just
27:31
wipes this out. So it ended up being actually
27:34
from a puppet play. It's a pretty simple thing, but
27:36
to get there took a lot of like how in the like poor JJ was like
27:39
what were you thinking? But it didn't look great.
27:42
The creature taught me to look great until it worked out.
27:44
Even just like, and again, I'm saying this as someone who is
27:47
not a puppeteer, but in my this recent watching, rewatching of
27:51
this episode, it's something I don't think anyone would
27:53
normally think of, but the distance that your arm has to
27:56
piston up and down to get the right while you're the character
28:00
speaking. And it's like I can't, I'm like,
28:03
I'm trying to do it right now and it's just like I can't get
28:06
the the rhythm. And it was very.
28:09
Physical, it was very, you know, luckily because of blue screen,
28:11
we could, we could almost be standing behind the puppet as
28:14
opposed to like under it. But you know, if you look at
28:16
where we shot that, that that little wall that's there, it's
28:20
it's kind of like whenever like a director wants to put the
28:23
characters behind her on that wall.
28:25
We're all like, oh, because it's so tight, because the pond and
28:29
all the infrastructure for the pond straight behind it.
28:31
So we were also just like, literally like, it was like, you
28:34
know, the last two weeks or week of shooting, we were all just
28:37
compressed against each other and just kind of were like,
28:39
well, we're going to be here for a few hours and just, you know,
28:41
luckily we all love, truly love each other.
28:44
So we were laughing and having fun and telling jokes.
28:46
But yeah, it was not, it was not, it was not the most
28:49
comfortable thing we've ever done.
28:50
But, you know, good puppetry and it's supposed to be
28:53
uncomfortable. So there you go.
28:54
There you go. Yeah, and the Fraggles are not
28:56
the only one who's bouncing. Cotter pin is on her Pogo stick.
28:59
She's floping. She's blooming.
29:02
Yes. Yeah.
29:02
But you knew what that was? Yes.
29:04
So Rev. She's so Rev Oh my. God, we almost worked it in.
29:08
We almost worked both of those words in.
29:10
It was like, I gotta cut something.
29:11
I I had a feeling I was thinking like Johnny knows what what that
29:14
is. He knows what she's doing.
29:15
I. Almost did if she.
29:16
Got the hiccups then that would have been yeah.
29:18
Then you would have known. Maybe that's too much.
29:20
We Yeah, we don't need to get that good on that road.
29:22
So later on, we see the Doosers have set up their gusty sucker
29:26
and the Fraggles are all excited.
29:28
I see Joe calls Red the captain of Hope, but Gobo's still
29:33
feeling down after because Junior had thrown away the
29:35
clappy hands a few episodes ago and he says he's feeling bad,
29:40
sad, a little mad, just not very rad.
29:44
I just like the fact that the word radical exists in the
29:48
Fraggle world. Need another rhyme I guess.
29:50
Yeah. Yeah, right.
29:52
Yeah. And so in this scene, too, Red
29:57
for some reason seems to be avoiding using Gobo's name
29:59
because she calls him Sigh Guy after he's like walks in in size
30:03
and then she calls him Vestin Stripes.
30:07
Was that intentional to just say like, we don't want her to say
30:09
Gobo? No, I think, I think, you know,
30:13
I think we've talked about this before in here, but you know,
30:15
the way that the writing room process works is like, you know,
30:17
we get assigned the script, we come up with the idea in the
30:19
room, the premise, and then, you know, the writer gets assigned
30:23
and we go off, we write a first draft, we bring bring it back to
30:25
the room and the room kind of deconstructs it and we add
30:27
things and change things and cut things and we go back, we write
30:30
a second draft and we bring it back.
30:31
So it becomes this really beautiful like group process
30:34
where we all throw out ideas. And Alex and Matt are genius
30:38
head writers and showrunners. Like they, they find ways to
30:42
infuse just, you know, fun one liners or throwaways or, you
30:47
know, vocabulary things. And I I think that that probably
30:49
was from them. I know it was, I know it was I,
30:52
I didn't want to say anything because I thought, well, what if
30:54
Johnny did write them? No, I definitely did not.
30:57
I don't think I've. Ever heard Johnny say rad in his
30:58
life? But Alex and Matt definitely
31:02
have a cadence to the way that they've like layered on top of,
31:06
you know, this, this new Fraggle rock.
31:08
And that's definitely Alex and Axis it.
31:12
Came from them for sure. Yeah.
31:14
And we, and we have, you know, it's, it's kind of great 'cause
31:15
you can, it's at the point now where like all of the writers
31:18
have such a distinct voice that you can, I can all not always,
31:21
but sometimes you can watch a show.
31:22
And I could be like, oh, that had to come from Charlie or that
31:24
had to come from Sabrina or that had to come from Jocelyn.
31:27
Like, you know, just 'cause we're.
31:28
And that's what's beautiful is we're in the room just throwing
31:29
out ideas, you know, and throwing out one liners.
31:33
Yeah, I love that. Yeah.
31:36
So here read. We were talking a minute ago
31:39
about how she might have been acting slightly out of character
31:42
with this this Hope idea, but she's really acting out of
31:44
character here because she suggests that maybe Gobo should
31:48
read one of his uncle travelling Matt's postcards.
31:52
And and actually she's going to read it herself, which is like,
31:55
who is this person? Who is this Fraggle?
31:58
That felt like, it's funny you mention it because that felt
32:00
like a moment. We talked about that in the room
32:01
where it was like, this is how like on high that she is being
32:05
this like Hope captain. And she's literally like, you
32:07
know what, we're even going to read your weird uncle's
32:09
postcard. I don't care.
32:10
Let's go like she's just like, let's do it like, you know?
32:14
She's very efficient. She's like, if we're going to do
32:16
this, we're going to do it now. You're taking too long.
32:18
Let me just take the postcard out of your hands.
32:19
Yeah. Well I'd also say that hope, and
32:21
I'm not this is based on science, not woo woo.
32:24
That hope definitely inspires you to be a kinder person, to be
32:30
more pro social. So I think we're experiencing
32:34
some of the neurological effects of Hope on Red right there, and
32:37
that she's feeling very, very friendly.
32:40
Tori I. Love her, I love you, just said
32:41
woo woo. This is not woo woo.
32:43
This is not woo woo, it's based on science.
32:45
Yes. So first of all, she she starts
32:49
to read the postcard and she does a little impression of
32:51
travelling that which I love. I love when when puppets do
32:54
impressions of other puppets. I think that's super fun.
32:58
And Charlie Matt is, is he in South Korea?
33:01
Is that where this was filmed? Howie Stanford, tell the story
33:04
cuz you were there. I was there, yes, he is in.
33:07
He is in South Korea. He is in Seoul and that's where
33:11
he ended up. Wow, it was amazing and.
33:15
We shot that actually after we wrapped.
33:16
That was literally the last thing shot for Season 2 I think,
33:19
right? I was because the last shot I
33:22
was with the director, John Rosenbaum, who is a great
33:25
director to be with on a last shot.
33:27
And so we called it out in Korea.
33:29
Last shot of the season of fraud on the top of a helipad.
33:35
Amazing. Wow, wow, I think I.
33:38
Have that video too. I'll send you that video.
33:40
And you were. And what was the experience you
33:43
and John had on top of the helipad?
33:44
Did you enjoy being that high up?
33:46
Nope. We, I mean, there were, you
33:51
know, we shot several, several pieces in, in, in in Seoul.
33:56
But the one I'm referencing is the Espa music video, which we
34:01
shot on top of a helipad because it looked cool and then you
34:06
could see the city beyond. But I think, I think what we
34:11
didn't realize was when we went to go scout the day before
34:15
there, there was no, there were no gates around the helipad.
34:18
There was no. There was no.
34:21
Yeah. There's nothing.
34:22
It's just like I could have run off the edge of which my brain
34:28
kept telling me, you know, you could do that, you know,
34:30
intrusive thoughts. In my intrusive thought, I was
34:33
like, I could just run right off this thing.
34:35
Anyway, we didn't realize this when we walked up the steps.
34:38
It was quite the shock. And we both hit the floor on our
34:41
knees like Oh my God. I got so many texts from Hallie
34:45
that day that were that were like, this is amazing.
34:49
Oh my God, I'm scared Fraggle Rock.
34:51
I'll do anything for the show. Oh my God, what's happening?
34:52
Like it was. Yeah, it was crazy.
34:55
Wow I would have. I would have been the same way.
34:57
That's terrifying to me. And I also assumed it was windy,
35:01
which doesn't help. It was windy and we had these
35:04
balloons. And then I remember I said to
35:06
the the crew there, well, what's going to happen if the wind is
35:09
too windy with these balloons? And they had no answer.
35:12
I'm like, we're going to need to we're going to need to come up
35:15
with a solution here. I came in with my American ways,
35:19
my, my American ways. But it was an incredible crew.
35:24
We loved it. John and I fell in love with the
35:28
whole K pop scene. And listen, Kevin clash warrior
35:33
on that helipad. It was, yeah.
35:36
It was hard to, you know, you're down on your back on a helipad
35:41
with AK Pop Band with Uncle Traveling Matt.
35:43
But isn't he hilarious in the video?
35:45
Isn't he great? The whole thing is great.
35:48
I love it in that. Video I love it.
35:51
I love this whole video. So first of all, I should say
35:54
they're singing a song called Get Goin.
35:56
This is from the original series episode Gobo's School for
35:59
Explorers. And I love that you found a way
36:03
to naturally create an opportunity for a Fraggle Rock
36:08
cover with another band, like you did last season with Foo
36:11
Fighters. So it feels like it's a bit of a
36:14
tradition for you. So I hope that keeps going if
36:16
there's gonna be more back. Well, and we should say that
36:18
Harvey Mason Junior and Andrew Hay and Sam Ramirez, who are his
36:22
associates, for all the music that they do, they are geniuses
36:26
and like they really can take any song and make it work.
36:29
And I remember like, you know, when you listen to the original
36:31
Get Going, which is one of my favorite songs.
36:34
It's very. It's very.
36:35
Kind of bouncy and kind of has that wonderful kind of like
36:38
bluegrass on this hill, like it's got this, you know, Doo wop
36:40
kind of feel to it. And I remember since I were
36:42
like, make this AK Pop song. Bye.
36:45
And, you know, and, and Espa had to be on board with it.
36:48
They had to be excited about doing it.
36:50
And they loved it. And it was like, it was this
36:52
wonderful. I just give Harvey and Andrew
36:54
and Sam. Yeah.
36:55
Well, Harvey really made the introduction to the K Pop world.
36:58
He was the one who recommended it.
37:00
Johnny and I duked it out over. He knows we duked it out over.
37:04
Should we have K Pop in Fraggle Rock?
37:07
Well, we were just kind of like, aren't?
37:08
You glad we did? Johnny, Oh my God.
37:10
Glad. OK.
37:11
I, I didn't know any K pop music at all and now it's like all,
37:14
all my Spotify and Apple Music is like like I'm so obsessed
37:19
with it now. So I'm so glad I got introduced
37:20
to it. But the Foo Fighters, just to, I
37:23
know we're talking about season, but the Foo Fighters actually,
37:25
that was their version of the song.
37:27
I mean, they took it, they made it their own.
37:29
Whereas with K Pop completely a Harvey Mason Junior specialty,
37:34
but also a lot of approvals, a lot of notes.
37:37
It was very a lot of heavy input from the publishers and
37:40
everything. So it was really.
37:42
And Apple Music. Yeah, Apple.
37:43
Music, yeah. So it just, it had to be just
37:46
right and every little detail had to be taken care of.
37:50
With having such a such a big K pop band, by the way, it was
37:55
like intense security too. Like nobody could know where we
37:59
were in the Espa location, so they put us at the top of a
38:02
helipad. Nobody could get us there.
38:05
And yet still, I'm sure that there were Espa fans who were
38:08
like, OK, I could just paraglide in and.
38:11
Probably. To find my way, yeah.
38:13
And they didn't really know, you know what?
38:15
They didn't really know Fraggle Rock that well in South Korea,
38:18
to be honest. So being over there, they
38:21
absolutely fell in love with puppets.
38:23
It was so interesting because, you know, you come to some of
38:26
these celebrities and bands because they have a nostalgia
38:29
just like we all do for the property.
38:30
But in the case of, you know, our crew and Espa, they really
38:34
didn't know it and fell in love. So it was really fun to kind of
38:39
see the characters have a really new life in a new part of the
38:45
world. Well, now that Fraggle Rock is a
38:48
huge hit in South Korea because of this, the scene I'm going to
38:51
put out in my wish list for Season 3 that you get Bong Joon
38:55
Ho to come and direct an episode, Yeah.
38:57
That'd be, gosh, that'd be incredible.
39:01
I mean, Parasite is already kind of a Fraggle Rock story, you
39:04
know? Listen, we have manifested the
39:06
basement. Levels, Yeah, Hidden beneath the
39:09
walls. Exactly.
39:10
We have, we have manifested so many things for this show, like
39:12
things that we never thought would happen.
39:14
I totally manifested Patty the Belle.
39:16
I was like, it's going to I Patty the Belle.
39:18
She's a legend. It's going to happen.
39:19
No, yeah, it's going to happen. So I believe it has.
39:21
I believe if we say it now, it'll happen.
39:23
Fantastic. I do want to ask one more thing
39:25
about this and that's so the travelling mat segments
39:27
throughout this whole season, he's really gone international.
39:31
So what was the decision behind like Let's I actually don't know
39:36
what countries he's into. It looked like maybe Mexico was
39:38
one of them. Mexico.
39:40
City. Yeah.
39:41
And like, why not just keep it all in in LA?
39:44
But what? Or Calgary.
39:46
It's such an important part of the, of the message of the show.
39:49
You know, it's always been this global international series that
39:52
really is meant for everyone across the world, not just for,
39:55
you know, just just for Americans.
39:58
And, you know, in the original series, he did go places.
40:00
He did go internationally. And like, you know, he went to
40:02
New Zealand, he went to, he went to Paris, he went so he did go
40:05
places. So you know the first season,
40:07
when you're dealing with the first season, you're just trying
40:09
to get through and you do as much as you can and you know,
40:11
you, you try to. You know, we didn't have the
40:14
ability that at that point to really take him as much in the
40:16
world as we wanted to. And second season, that was a
40:18
big part of our mission was that he goes more international.
40:21
And I also give credit to Chris Port, who's our producer in
40:24
second season. He really was was very
40:26
passionate about that, about making that work and figuring
40:28
out a way to do that. And now it's kind of like it's
40:31
introduced this idea that he literally could go anywhere in
40:34
the world and and beyond. So it's an exciting, you know,
40:37
and I think that is a wonderful message to kids.
40:40
Right. And to to.
40:41
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, you know, Uncle Maccabee
40:44
in your backyard tomorrow, You know, you just don't know.
40:46
Oh. Well, and just also remember
40:48
first season we were in lockdown.
40:51
So if we. Oh yeah.
40:52
Oh, that they remember. They.
40:54
Forgot about that. Oh yeah.
40:56
If we could go back in time, I think we would have tried to at
40:59
least, you know, go to, you know, experimented with one
41:02
other location. But it was it was just
41:05
impossible. We couldn't do it.
41:07
So it was such a pleasure to be able to do it.
41:09
And I have a little TV like detail which I love and it's
41:12
going to mean nothing to anyone but me.
41:14
But like my favorite thing in the dailies down in Mexico City
41:17
was hearing them say Axion, like I just loved it.
41:20
It made me so happy. Axion, I wanted us to do that
41:24
now from instead of action from now on.
41:29
And all right, so Season 3, Charlie, Matt's coming to my
41:32
house, right? Just gonna, yeah.
41:34
I'm gonna be. Anywhere around a year, yeah.
41:36
I mean, he's obviously a big eater.
41:37
He likes food. So if you got something, you
41:40
know, yeah. I'll put out a feast for him.
41:41
Yeah, we'll. Be ready, love it.
41:43
Done so in the Gorg's garden. They've been setting up this
41:48
turbine again and Padma are kind of canoodling over the whole
41:52
thing and we kind of follow this tube that they've set up all the
41:55
way down to Whistling Hollow and Architect tells Cotter Pin to
42:00
hit the button and he'll say something really cool.
42:04
So she bounce down from three, hits the button and he says here
42:08
come the babies. Yep, which?
42:10
Eyebrow wound 4 times because they made me laugh so much.
42:15
Was that look? Were there alts for that?
42:18
Like, did you have like a bunch of silly things or was it always
42:20
take on the babies? We did do alts.
42:22
I will say that I did not write that line.
42:23
I will not take credit for that line.
42:25
I think that wasn't Alex and Matt's specialty.
42:28
They they love writing for architect and cotterpin because
42:32
Donna Kimball and I have so much fun on set just improving as
42:35
them and it just like it. It makes him laugh like just all
42:39
the time. So they were on set when we shot
42:42
that and I think we did a few different alts, but here come
42:44
the babies was just such a weird like what is wrong with him?
42:48
Like it's such a good star. And the fact that he immediately
42:51
identifies too, that it was like, oh, that was weird.
42:53
Like I, I just, I love that moment cuz it's just so
42:57
unexpected and bizarre. And I remember when we, first of
42:59
all, it's hilarious when we shot it, right?
43:00
Like it was, we were all laughing when we shot it.
43:02
But then we would get messages from like our post department as
43:06
they were getting the footage in, you know, and they were all
43:09
like, what is happening with Here Comes the baby?
43:11
Like everyone reacted to that line.
43:14
So I think he's got a new catch phrase.
43:17
Pick up the babies. Yeah, I think, yeah.
43:19
He's. Unhinged this season.
43:20
Architect is unhinged. She's unhinged.
43:23
He's so unhinged. He's so unhinged.
43:25
But that's why I love him is because he's he's, you know, and
43:28
I love the message of like Cotterpan is like, you know, Don
43:30
always says, I think the Cotterpan is like the little kid
43:32
who says the emperor has no clothes.
43:34
And I love that. That's such a great way to
43:35
identify it. And, and the architect doesn't
43:37
have any a will. He doesn't.
43:38
He's just, you know, he's just thinks he's in charge.
43:41
But really, it's Cotterpan. Right.
43:43
Yes, I love it. Yeah.
43:45
So when you guys are making an architect doll that has a pull
43:49
string in the back, this is going to be one of the things
43:52
that he should say. Yeah, exactly.
43:54
Absolutely. What's that?
43:55
Johnny, what did he say? Look up the babies.
44:02
That's stupid. So the Doozers, they managed to
44:04
grab the Gusties, they send them through the tube and they do not
44:08
budget the turbine at all. It doesn't work.
44:09
And as Red says now the Gusties are gone forever, which it
44:13
seemed like it was so hard to get rid of them throughout this
44:15
whole season, and now it's like, that's it.
44:17
Like, yeah, well, that was another fun opposite moment of
44:19
her, right? Was it?
44:20
Like before she wanted to get rid of them desperately and now
44:22
she's sad that they're gone. So it also shows like, you know,
44:26
flip sides. And there's a cool puppetry
44:29
moment here where when Red realizes what happens, her
44:33
pigtails droop. Yes.
44:35
So is that something the puppet can do, or was there a way that
44:37
you had to rig that for this moment?
44:38
Moment here. Well, I used to be obsessed with
44:41
that in the original series when I was a kid and I was like, how
44:43
do they do that? And I, I pictured like, like,
44:46
you know, Flazzfazakis creating these amazing servo driven
44:49
ponytails or pigtails and everything.
44:50
No, it's literally just like invisible wire attached to her
44:53
pig, to her pigtails that we just pulled down.
44:56
And yeah, there are special kind of pigtails that are flexible,
44:58
but, you know, it's a very simple effect.
45:00
But you're right, it's very, it's like, you know, it's like
45:03
almost like Red's happy energy is in those pigtails all the
45:06
time. That's what keeps them up.
45:07
And then when she's feeling down, they droop.
45:09
So it's a nice visual to kind of match her emotion.
45:13
Yeah, No, it looks great. And and yes, you're right that
45:16
her normal pigtails, they're like this explosive energy
45:20
that's always around her head. And so of course, you know,
45:23
that's going to reflect with her attitude or with her mood rather
45:26
as really droop, especially now that she is no longer the
45:30
captain of Hope, she's the captain of Nope.
45:34
And as we said before, she she goes to Buber's cave because
45:38
he's usually the guy who's all Moby.
45:41
And I love that the walls are just completely covered in
45:44
laundry. Like just constantly.
45:47
Things are constantly drying. Yeah, yeah.
45:50
He's always like, and, and to the point that it's like who
45:53
wears half of the stuff? And like, no one wears these
45:55
socks. What is wrong with you?
45:56
Yeah. Right.
45:57
Yeah, yeah. So, well, first of all, so Red's
46:01
in the water basin or whatever you call that thing, that big
46:03
metal tub she's drawn under sorrows.
46:06
And so she kind of like goes off screen and comes back for a
46:10
second and she's wearing 1 of Buber's hats and his scarf and
46:14
it's like pulled over her eyes. So this is, by the way, this is
46:17
2 Times Now in this episode that she's done an impression of
46:20
another character. How about that?
46:22
Oh, you're right. Yes, you're right.
46:23
Yeah. Dream come true.
46:25
And I will, I want to point that moment out too, because you're
46:27
mentioning the hat that this is where like, you know, the
46:29
creature shop, you know, all the little tricks that you don't
46:31
notice because you just, it's normal to us as people who do
46:34
these things. But to pull Red's hat back, you
46:37
know, that's a huge rig for a puppet to do.
46:40
And the brilliant, I think it was Jurgen, one of our amazing
46:43
wranglers, and Scotty Johnson, they came up with this, this,
46:46
this like little contraption that like pulled it back and
46:49
like pulled it onto her behind her eyeballs.
46:50
And like, you know, the kind of thing that like if you were
46:52
directing humans, you'd never have to think about and it would
46:54
take 2 seconds. But like with a puppet, you got
46:56
to think about as a special effect.
46:58
You again, it's not really noticeable, but it works so
47:00
well. Yeah, no, it really does.
47:01
I didn't notice it. That's that's how I see.
47:03
There you go. You didn't think about it.
47:04
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it worked.
47:06
Yeah. And yeah, Red asks the question
47:09
that we have been asking for years, which is why does Buber
47:13
watch so many socks when no one in Fraggle Rock wears them?
47:16
And I, I believe I, I meant to look this up because we can we
47:20
take part in the the press junkets before the each season.
47:23
And I did one with some of the characters, including Buber.
47:28
And I asked him why is he always watching socks?
47:31
And he shut it down so quickly. He's like, oh, we don't know.
47:33
We don't We don't we're not going to talk about that.
47:36
And I don't know if there this was already like coming if if if
47:40
he knew or if it's just like no, everyone's been asking that we
47:44
finally need to give him. Minutes.
47:45
It was Dave. He was probably making a joke
47:47
about that for sure. Yeah.
47:48
But yeah, it's like, it's like Cooper doesn't talk.
47:50
He can't talk about that. Yeah.
47:53
But yeah, well, I'm glad we finally have some confirmation
47:55
about about why, because he says he hopes that someday that the
47:59
Fraggles might start wearing them and then they'll get dirty
48:02
and he'll get to wash them again.
48:04
It's the circle of suds and my only note here is I'm sorry that
48:10
this wasn't a song cue into a little Lion King.
48:12
I know it should have been a song, a circle of thoughts.
48:14
Boobers like happy laundry washing song.
48:16
I know. I'm just picturing boober like
48:18
on the on the edge of a Cliff, like holding like a laundry
48:21
basket. It's.
48:23
Hilarious. Next time.
48:25
Next time. Next time.
48:27
But, yeah. But Red wants to know where all
48:28
of his doom and gloom is because that's why she came to him.
48:31
And he says that he knows that things could always turn bad,
48:34
but he's hopeful that they won't even now, because things are
48:37
bad. And I, I feel like when, like,
48:39
the worst things are, the more Boober's like, yeah, it's fine.
48:41
It's when they're good that that's when he's really
48:43
panicking. Yeah.
48:45
Well, it's, it's it's, you know, Dave Gulls is my, his brain is
48:49
so brilliant. But I remember him explaining
48:50
like the way he looks at Boober and he was like, you know, he
48:53
he's he's pointing out all the things that can go wrong.
48:56
So he's prepared for when they do, you know, and and it's true.
48:59
There are people like that. There are people like that who
49:01
like, you know, it, there's that great episode in the original
49:03
series Marooned where they're like lost when they're under the
49:05
Cape quake and they're trapped, which was like my worst
49:08
nightmare. And, you know, you expect Uber
49:10
to be the one losing his mind and panicking.
49:12
And actually, he's the one who's very kind of like, matter of
49:14
fact, like, oh, we're gonna run out of air and we're probably
49:17
not going to live very long and we'll probably die like, and,
49:19
and it's, it's, it's like, you know, I think a lot of people
49:21
are like that where they, they, I do this, where I, I'm anxious
49:25
about the worst thing that could possibly happen, which I think
49:27
is probably because I'm, I want to be like emotionally prepared
49:30
if it does. And then when, you know, then
49:33
when you actually go through something kind of crap, you're
49:34
like, oh, it's not as, it's not what I thought it was going to
49:37
be. So it's, it's, it's a very real
49:38
thing. And you know, I think Dave plays
49:41
that so beautifully with Uber. I agree.
49:43
Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, there. There's definitely some lessons
49:47
that we could all kind of take from that without taking it
49:49
quite so far into being a doom and gloom person all the time.
49:52
Like Boomer, Speaking of doom and gloom, they read in and
49:57
Boober here, they notice that they hear some fraggles kind of
50:01
repeating the word Nope, Nope, Nope in the background.
50:04
And they look out of the I guess it's a window.
50:06
I don't know what you. Call that the rock opening
50:08
little window under the under the rock, Yeah.
50:10
Right, yeah. And all the Fraggles are out
50:12
there. They're just kind of pacing in
50:14
circles and they've all been, you know, they're just their
50:16
energy is sapped. And the cool thing about this is
50:19
the color contrast for all that is pulled way back.
50:22
I'm. Glad you noticed this.
50:24
Oh my God. Of course, because first of all,
50:26
I I don't think I noticed it right away the first time I
50:28
watched it. But once they start pacing in
50:32
front of Boober and Red and Boober and Red are in full
50:35
color, you could really see the difference.
50:38
And it is a cool effect. That's a really cool, subtle
50:40
effect. Yeah, you.
50:42
Know it's our color correction and our post department, they
50:45
worked so hard and, and they were really excited by the
50:47
chance, you know, of course I'm like, you can't, how can you do
50:49
that? And it's amazing with technology
50:51
today how they could track it. They could track where the color
50:53
is where it's not. And Tim O'Brien, you know, one
50:56
of our producers who worked so hard in in post production, like
50:59
he was just passionate about getting that right.
51:01
And it's such a subtle thing, you're right.
51:02
But it really is cool when you when you notice that it's there.
51:05
I also remember though, the, the fun fact, I also remember like a
51:09
conversation with the producers where some people challenged
51:11
that it couldn't be done in a way.
51:13
And, and we're worried, oh, that's just going to look,
51:17
that's not going to look right. It's not going to look In Sync.
51:19
So I'm glad that we did it. I'm glad that we tried.
51:22
I, I remember saying, let's try it and if it doesn't work, it
51:25
doesn't work, then let me change it back.
51:26
But it did. I appreciate that.
51:28
Like when there's that kind of challenge, I feel like that's a
51:31
guarantee that someone's going to say, I'll show you, and then
51:33
they go and they do something magical.
51:36
Yeah. And sometimes you have to just
51:37
see something to know you, you have to see it to understand
51:40
what it is. And and it's hard.
51:42
It's hard. It's hard for some people, I
51:43
think to visualize like what it could be.
51:44
So. So sometimes you just need to,
51:46
you need to, you need to shove it.
51:48
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, So Buber says he knows
51:53
exactly what to do, and he goes to the trash heap and begs her.
51:57
What do we do? So Tresheep and Phyllo and Gunj
52:02
are composting, but what I love here is that Phyllo and Gunj are
52:05
wearing Doozer helmets. Yes.
52:08
What a cool little detail. I didn't know they made them
52:11
that size. I know, right?
52:13
Well, it was a nice little subtle thing of like, and I
52:16
think that's honestly because some of the story there got
52:19
compressing for time. But you know that that like
52:21
basically the the the Doozers and the trash, like everyone's
52:24
been working together to try to make this whole thing work, you
52:27
know, and so it's the message of frackle rock, right, like we all
52:30
have to be together to to move forward.
52:32
And so it's just a nice little subtle way to show that like
52:34
Philo and guns. Also, we were like, have the
52:36
doozers just ever been at the trashy before?
52:39
And we're like, I don't think they have.
52:41
So it also felt like a kind of a cool little like Philo and gunge
52:43
probably like, Oh, I love that hat.
52:44
That's so cute. Let me wear that.
52:45
Like I feel like they would probably be all into it, you
52:48
know? Philo, you look amazing.
52:49
Look at that. Look at that.
52:50
Looks so cute on you. Oh my gosh.
52:51
Like I feel. Like they, I love it.
52:53
Yeah. And you're right.
52:55
I don't remember the dozers ever being in the in the in the trash
52:57
heap. And and you know, we see them
52:59
there as they're they're carting away the the compost, which felt
53:02
odd to see it, but like, not in a not in a wrong way, just like
53:06
a is that really a Doozer? Oh, it is.
53:08
I know. Cool.
53:09
It's funny to see them in the garden.
53:10
Just like driving the little all terrain trucks, Yeah.
53:14
Exactly. So Red asks why they're
53:18
bothering to do this because the turbine idea didn't work, and
53:22
Marjorie reminds her that still helps to do something.
53:26
And that's how you hold on to hope, because hope is
53:28
contagious. And so is mope.
53:30
And Nope, as we're learning that they're, it's all contagious,
53:32
specifically from Red Fraggle, but probably all of us.
53:38
And she inspires, yes. And she inspires Red to take a
53:41
leap of faith and she takes this literally as she jumps into the
53:47
into the well in the Gorg's garden and she has a cannonball
53:49
into the lagoon. And oh, but first, actually, I
53:54
skipped the part where Red and Boober's little feet, we see
53:56
them running through the garden, which I always love seeing.
53:59
And then they run right over the clappy hands and Pogorg grabs
54:04
it. That'll come back later.
54:06
But yes, when red drops down cannonballs into the pool, it
54:09
creates this beautiful rainbow over the over the pond, which
54:12
again, there's some really, really gorgeous shots in this
54:15
episode. It is.
54:16
It has been noticed. It's been appreciated.
54:19
I love it. I love that.
54:22
It's a beautiful moment. Yeah, and that rainbow brings
54:26
the color back to all the Fraggles.
54:27
They're all they're no longer monochrome.
54:30
Yeah, so Red tells them that she has hope that maybe more wind
54:33
will come and they can't just do nothing.
54:36
It's better to do something. She just learned that less than
54:37
5 seconds ago. And if it if it does, they're
54:40
going to need a better way to direct it to the turbine.
54:43
And she has another epiphany. Let's use the fraggle horn and
54:46
attach it to the wind tube and they'll focus the wind.
54:49
But how will they lift it? As Buber points out, 100
54:52
Fraggles couldn't lift it. But Gobo knows somebody and he's
54:56
going to go talk to him and yeah, we, we have a lot of plot
54:59
to get through here. I.
55:01
Know, got to wrap this whole thing up, yeah.
55:03
Seriously. So Gobo goes to confront Junior
55:07
and I love this moment too because like again, there's a
55:10
lot happening in this episode, you don't have time to to ease
55:13
into it. And Gobo also, character wise,
55:16
he's probably done with that, with all the the subtleties as
55:18
well. So immediately he tells Junior
55:21
that he's hurt. He doesn't like that he threw
55:23
with the clappy hands. But this isn't an end of the
55:25
friendship. They still want to be friends.
55:27
And hey, we still need your help to get this thing done.
55:31
And yeah, between that and then in a moment, Pol Gord comes in
55:34
and has like a real big moment of growth as well toward Junior.
55:40
I love that my. Favorite scenes in the whole In
55:42
the whole thing, there's just a lot.
55:43
Of like the end of of these story arcs here for this season
55:48
finale and it all kind of is coming together in one little
55:51
moment. Yeah, I definitely can admit
55:53
that I had, now that I'm far away from it, I had like so many
55:56
panic attacks writing this episode because it was like, it
55:58
was so much to get into, you know, we have a limit on how
56:01
many pages it could be and how long it could that episode could
56:03
be. And I remember to be like, Oh my
56:04
God, it's like sitting at home staring at my computer screen.
56:08
Like what? Because it is it's a lot of it's
56:10
a lot of storylines to wrap up very quickly.
56:12
And and and you can't lose the message of the whole episode,
56:15
you know, so, but I do love that scene with Pawn Junior and Goba
56:18
because it's it's first of all, we shot that live.
56:21
So I was in the blue cube across the stage and we had the inner
56:24
so we could hear each other. And, you know, Dan and Frank
56:26
and, and I worked really hard on like, what are the, what are we
56:29
saying here? What are these moments?
56:31
And JJ was really passionate about like making sure that
56:33
Gobust stood up for himself. And it was just, it was a really
56:36
wonderful moment. And I like that.
56:37
I like that Pennsylvania finally has a moment of, of humanity, no
56:41
pun intended. And and, you know, he really
56:43
kind of shows, you know, a kinder emotion.
56:45
And I think that that's sometimes, you know, even people
56:48
unexpectedly, you can have hope that they will finally
56:50
breakthrough and see, see, see the truth.
56:54
Yeah, especially because we were teased with it at the end of
56:57
last season that had all this growth and then it's immediately
57:01
undone at the beginning of Season 2.
57:03
And so now we're seeing like he's gone, you know, 2 steps
57:05
further and. That happens, by the way, like I
57:07
know that there was criticism. They're like, oh, he's right,
57:09
Pause, right back to being like, well, that happens.
57:12
You know, people take a half a step forward, you know, and then
57:15
we're so conditioned as creatures of habit, right?
57:18
Like we're, we're used to certain things and we're used to
57:20
certain beliefs. And it's even if you want to
57:23
change your routine or you want to change your emotions or you
57:26
want to change your point of view, you can do that, but then
57:28
you get pulled back. And so I think that was
57:30
important with POV this year is to show like, sometimes you get
57:33
pulled back, but then you could still go forward.
57:34
You could still make that move forward.
57:36
Well, we talked a lot about his generational trauma.
57:40
Believe it or not, that was a conversation.
57:42
And so he was pulled back into sort of these loops of what has
57:47
existed before, and it's very hard for anyone to break those,
57:50
particularly Paw. Yeah.
57:52
What would my dad think? Like that's a big thing,
57:55
especially for men, you know? And, you know, knowing where
57:58
this story is going to end up for the Gorgs in this episode, I
58:03
feel like that's going to have to be a really big topic if
58:05
we're able to continue the story in Season 3 of, like, how do you
58:08
how do you stop the generational trauma as you're raising the
58:12
next generation? Yeah, we've got to see that.
58:16
So in this moment, Junior grabs Gobo.
58:19
He hugs them tight. We I love, I love seeing them
58:22
interact because I know it's just a little tiny gobo toy that
58:26
he's he's just hugging to his chest.
58:27
But then we have this great shot of gobo like from like at the
58:31
puppet, Gobo from his. Perspective.
58:34
Being hugged against this giant junior Gorg hand and body.
58:38
It was, it was actually, it's a combo of two.
58:40
Well, you got one of them, which is like, yeah, they built like
58:42
an oversized junior Gorg chest and then we had that wonderful
58:45
oversized hand from the first season.
58:47
But so it's that combo which I love shooting, I love like just
58:51
so silly. But then the other thing, I just
58:53
want to give really credit, credit to Bendor O'Shea, who's
58:55
the junior Gork body performer or one of our brilliant
58:58
puppeteers. The shot where it's full body
59:00
junior with the regular Gork size with little gobo.
59:03
That's the mini gobo puppet, which is a rod puppet that has a
59:06
little trigger for the mouth and a little thing for the head
59:08
movement. He's literally they, they cut a
59:11
slit in Junior's stomach and they fed the rod puppet through
59:16
there and then they stuffed Junior's.
59:19
I guess that would be his left hand, no, right hand.
59:23
And so Ben is actually inside of the Junior body, puppeteering
59:27
the little gobo along with doing Junior Gorg's body.
59:31
So he's literally doing 2 characters at once inside that
59:33
costume. And it's so good.
59:34
It's so good. And it was brilliant in the shop
59:36
too. Yeah, it's weird.
59:37
It's weird, but it worked so well and it looks so good and
59:40
you, you would never know. So it's I give Ben credit for
59:43
that because it looks really good.
59:45
And again, you could have just had a like a a lifeless gobo and
59:50
we wouldn't have noticed. It would have been fine.
59:51
But you little. Details.
59:53
Continue to to, you know, push the possibilities of what you
59:58
can do and to go the extra mile is so very much appreciated and
1:00:02
and it really. That's the gym has come across,
1:00:04
right? Yeah.
1:00:05
Like, he didn't have to have a bunch of puppets riding bikes,
1:00:07
so you didn't have to have a Miss Piggy in a water ballet.
1:00:09
But like if, Why not if you can. Absolutely.
1:00:14
So this is where we get the next song of the episode.
1:00:16
It's called the Hope We build together and we're seeing the
1:00:20
whole plan come into action as the Doozers tie a rope around
1:00:23
the Fraggle horn and Junior's bringing it up with a fishing
1:00:25
pole. And I love that all the Fraggles
1:00:28
are wearing Bluebird socks, the aforementioned socks, and they
1:00:32
got them on their heads, on their noses, on their like as
1:00:35
the wording of scarves are wearing them on their
1:00:36
bellubiuses. And Pogie has two of them that
1:00:40
are puppets. Yay.
1:00:43
OK, puppets on Fraggle Rock. I don't think it'll work.
1:00:45
We have, oh, you can imagine how many jokes we made about that.
1:00:48
And actually there's a wonderful video and I'm sure you've seen
1:00:51
behind the scenes video of Pogey, the brilliant kind of
1:00:54
channel is Pogey talking, having this whole conversation
1:00:59
basically talking about how how Pogey's in love with Red
1:01:01
essentially. And then Karen comes over with
1:01:03
Red and you think that she's going to completely like, make
1:01:07
fun of him and then she ends up being like, you're awesome and
1:01:09
it's so sweet and fraggly and heart warming and hilarious.
1:01:12
Kanye's reactions with Pokey there are just brilliant.
1:01:15
We always have to have in our show as one nod to the
1:01:19
characters doing. Being puppets, we've done.
1:01:22
It in every single show. You're right, Crystal.
1:01:27
Said Dinosaur Train. Oh my God, yes.
1:01:30
The dark Crystal, the age of resistance thing where they do
1:01:32
the puppet show. God, is that yes, I I love that
1:01:35
that's a tradition. Yeah, keep that going.
1:01:37
It's. A tradition.
1:01:38
Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. So during the song, PAH Gore
1:01:43
sings a line like with Ma. Is this the only time he sings
1:01:46
in this in this series? He's the only other time I can
1:01:49
think of when you just said that.
1:01:50
The only other time that pops in my brain is in the Rock goes on
1:01:52
in the first episode. So it's like, it's almost like
1:01:55
when he lets those moments of hope come through, you know, he
1:01:58
can, he can belt something out. But yeah, I think I think it was
1:02:01
exciting for Frank Mescala, who performs Pennsylvania now, to do
1:02:04
that too 'cause he he had so much fun singing as
1:02:06
Pennsylvania. The whole.
1:02:08
Yeah, that's so funny all. Right.
1:02:10
Well, Season 3, we gotta give the Gorgs more.
1:02:12
More. Oh yeah, for sure.
1:02:13
Really. Yeah, They're they're lacking
1:02:15
here in their music. Yeah, come on.
1:02:17
Ma had her big, her big ballads. Oh.
1:02:19
My gosh, be a queen. The greatest ever.
1:02:21
Yeah. Yeah, wonderful.
1:02:24
And I mean, just Amy Garcia getting to sing with Amy Garcia.
1:02:27
It's great. Go see her on tour.
1:02:29
Is Madam Horrible and Wicked? She's on tour.
1:02:31
Yeah, yeah. And we also see Lanford and how
1:02:36
his roots are kind of stretching down into the soil and they come
1:02:39
back up through Docs Garden. And her plant sprocket, the
1:02:44
plant's bracket or the dog's bracket kind of splits in two
1:02:46
and gives her this idea for this double turbine that she's gonna
1:02:50
use for her for her class project.
1:02:52
And we get to hear Lily Cooper sing again.
1:02:55
So that's also really nice to hear.
1:02:57
Yeah, she's. Any opportunity to get Lily
1:02:59
Cooper to sing, you gotta take it.
1:03:01
Come on. Yeah, We, we talked a lot about
1:03:04
that because we were, we were, you know, in the in the pokey
1:03:07
episode, it makes sense for her to sing because that's what
1:03:10
she's talking about, you know, and we felt more, less, less
1:03:13
fantastical. And we, we kind of debated here.
1:03:15
We're like, oh, is it breaking that world thing of like Doc
1:03:19
singing? Because but then we're like, you
1:03:20
know what? She's so caught up in the hope
1:03:22
and she's so caught up in the magic of Fraggle 2.
1:03:24
And, and obviously there is that, you know, physical
1:03:28
connection with Lanford's roots, you know, which, which is a
1:03:31
whole other Canon thing. But also the we could bought, we
1:03:33
bought the magic of Fraggle Rock kind of pours into her a little
1:03:36
bit too too. So and it's just like you said,
1:03:38
a great reason to have Lily Cooper saying so who cares?
1:03:40
Well. And just to, to echo what you
1:03:42
just said, I mean, there's going to be a moment later in this
1:03:44
episode where she finds travelling Matt's backpack.
1:03:48
And like, we really are starting to put these these two worlds
1:03:51
closer and closer together. So, I mean, there's nothing to
1:03:53
say that this magical, musical fraggly thing isn't actually
1:03:59
leaking into her world. Yeah.
1:04:01
I think someone said I can't, it might have been Hallie.
1:04:03
I can't remember who. But look, it it was either
1:04:05
writer's room where one of our production meetings when we were
1:04:07
debating about this one was finally like, yeah, hey, also
1:04:10
Sprocket dresses up in human clothes and Sprocket, like I
1:04:13
think it was you. And it was like, we're like, oh,
1:04:15
yeah. Like there are some.
1:04:17
We definitely break those rules when it's convenient.
1:04:20
So yeah, let's let's go for. Sure, But yeah.
1:04:26
So while Doc is setting up her new and improved turbine
1:04:28
traveling, Matt returns and Sprocket goes nuts.
1:04:32
He grabs Matt's backpack and Matt goes into the rock.
1:04:35
Doc turns on the fans and he goes flying through the rock,
1:04:40
through Fraggle rock, through the the tube, out of the into
1:04:45
the Gorg's garden. He grabs on to the Fraggle horn.
1:04:48
It flips around backward. There's also like, there's first
1:04:52
of all, there's so much great stuff happening here, but my
1:04:54
favorite shot is the one of Matt flying toward the camera with
1:04:57
his eyes. Big mommy.
1:04:59
Yes, hysterical, hysterical. Did you have any other any notes
1:05:04
or observations about how this whole sequence kind of came
1:05:06
together? Oh my gosh.
1:05:10
I was really worried. I mean, it was like it was a, it
1:05:12
was very ambitious and. I'm just.
1:05:15
Going to say, personally, I think the way it turned out is
1:05:17
fantastic, but in the back of my head, I just had to let go and
1:05:20
trust I'm, I'm just trusting people smarter than me know how
1:05:24
to make this happen because it was a big, it was a.
1:05:27
Lot of pieces. Well, it was just it was so many
1:05:29
pieces and it was again like I remember I could literally I
1:05:32
have a sense of memory of like staring at the page, writing out
1:05:34
the montage of events and being like, oh, this is gonna get cut
1:05:38
somehow. And then it was like we get to
1:05:39
the days of shooting it. I was like, Oh my God, we're
1:05:41
shooting this. But no, it's just a lot of
1:05:44
really thoughtful storyboarding and planning on, you know, on J
1:05:48
JS part and on the production team's part.
1:05:50
And you know, really the hardest part was all the different
1:05:53
scales, you know, because the the tubes are built in Gorg
1:05:56
scale. The tubes are built in Fraggle
1:05:57
rock Confraggle scale. The tubes start like it's it was
1:06:00
really figuring out like what can be shot live?
1:06:02
What can't be? When do we have to shrink mat
1:06:04
down on blue screen? When can we use practical mat?
1:06:06
When can't we? So it was really just so many
1:06:08
different, you know, minds coming together to make it
1:06:10
happen. Yeah, no.
1:06:12
And it looks great. I mean, just.
1:06:14
And it's such a short sequence too.
1:06:15
Like I if something had gone wrong gone wrong, we wouldn't
1:06:18
have ever noticed just because my.
1:06:20
Favorite shot actually that everyone thinks was animated but
1:06:22
it wasn't. Is that shot where he comes out
1:06:24
of the tube in the garden, kind of does this R curve thing and
1:06:28
it it that's pretty much like matte in front of blue screen
1:06:31
with a little bit of post help. I mean, it's such a simple
1:06:33
effect, but it looks so good. It looks so the way that Frank
1:06:36
and his team puppeteered it, It just, it looks so great.
1:06:40
Amazing, I love that. But all of this makes the
1:06:43
turbine work finally. And Red congratulates Pogy for
1:06:48
knowing that the fraggle horn needed to work backward, as as
1:06:51
we saw at the beginning of the episode.
1:06:52
And Pogy says, oh sure, when air moves through a small passage,
1:06:55
it just gets constricted and therefore moves with greater
1:06:57
velocity. That is hysterical that that
1:07:03
first of all, that pogey is smart enough to know all that
1:07:07
sciency stuff that. They're very smart, said.
1:07:08
In a million years ago, but also Pogey's saying it through the
1:07:11
puppets. Yep, which which was one of
1:07:14
those moments of like, you know, you, you like there's another
1:07:17
side of Pogey that comes out in this episode, right?
1:07:19
We know that Pogey is incredibly forward thinking and, and in
1:07:23
touch with who they are their authentic self from the Pogey
1:07:26
episode. But like, oh, also Pogey's
1:07:28
brilliant. Like, yeah, like super
1:07:31
brilliant. And no one really knows it.
1:07:32
And I think it's, I think it's something to explore down the
1:07:34
line of like if you ever heard stuck like in a, you know, a, a,
1:07:38
a logical jam Pogey's your person.
1:07:42
And I I also wonder if the puppets have anything to do with
1:07:45
it. I've been watching a lot of soap
1:07:46
lately, the old sitcom, and you know, there's the puppet, the
1:07:50
it's a great show, but there's the ventriloquist character and
1:07:54
he's got Bob, his ventriloquist dummy.
1:07:56
And it really seems like a lot of the time there are two
1:07:58
different people who both like they, they don't actually share
1:08:02
a brain. So is it possible that maybe
1:08:04
Pogey's like, look, I didn't know this, but maybe this guy on
1:08:07
my on my left hand like like they knew it maybe.
1:08:09
It helped him access it. I feel like Pokey in season 3
1:08:14
and beyond. I just love the idea of like the
1:08:16
puppets coming back. Pokey's talking through puppets.
1:08:19
I I think so. I think that Pokey they would
1:08:21
use that use those puppets all of them bring.
1:08:23
Bring them back for the pokey Lil Rag O crossover episode that
1:08:28
I've been asking for all year. The spin off episodes.
1:08:31
Rag O yes. I want it.
1:08:33
I want it so bad. So anyway, everyone celebrates,
1:08:37
everything works. The architect tells Cotterpin
1:08:40
about the time that he invented something better than the
1:08:42
monorail. It uses 0 rails.
1:08:45
Mogi is proud of Lanford and then accuses him of not keeping
1:08:48
up with brushing his teeth. Also hysterical.
1:08:51
And Buber's just excited about all the socks that he gets to
1:08:53
wash. Yes, banner day for Buber.
1:08:57
And that that moment when Buber throws the socks, it looks so
1:09:00
simple, but there was it was insane.
1:09:01
It was like, I was like, this is so like, like this is a perfect
1:09:04
example of like again, what it takes to do a puppet shot as a,
1:09:08
you know, a human would grab a pile, throw a puppet, throw
1:09:11
socks up in the air and call it a day.
1:09:12
But because you can't really do that, we had a air cannon that
1:09:16
there was, there was, they shoved like 80 socks in this air
1:09:20
cannon. And it was like we had to do a
1:09:21
test of it. We all had to wear earplugs.
1:09:24
We had to wear projectile glasses.
1:09:25
Like it was crazy. I was like, what are we doing?
1:09:28
But it was like, well, it's the finale.
1:09:29
Yeah. Wow, how many TV shows do you
1:09:32
think have have have have had a air cannon full of socks go off?
1:09:36
I can probably maybe like America's Got Talent, solid
1:09:40
gold, I don't know. Actually, I think I saw an
1:09:43
episode of SOAP where they do it.
1:09:45
Probably, Yeah, Yeah. I could talk about soap with you
1:09:48
forever, by the way. We're we should?
1:09:50
Do a soap podcast. Episode.
1:09:52
Oh my God, absolutely. Especially when.
1:09:54
He tries to puppeteer the grapefruit because he's lost Bob
1:09:57
I. Just watched that one.
1:09:58
I just saw that a couple days ago.
1:10:00
I need. To watch this, Oh my gosh,
1:10:01
great. Also, Jay Johnson, the
1:10:04
puppeteer. I'm going to get off topic for a
1:10:06
second. The puppeteer from that.
1:10:07
I saw his one man show a few years back.
1:10:09
Brilliant. One of the best things I've ever
1:10:10
seen on stage. He was just, yeah, absolutely
1:10:13
fantastic. He's just, he's just doing his
1:10:15
ventriloquist act with all different characters, telling
1:10:17
his life story. Wonderful show.
1:10:18
I don't know if he's still doing it, but if you ever see that
1:10:21
he's, he's coming to town, yeah, go see him.
1:10:23
I'm gonna. Pally, it's a date.
1:10:25
We're gone, OK. So we see the roots underneath
1:10:30
Lanford are glowing and we kind of pan out a little bit and we
1:10:35
see all these little like worms and bugs and things which like,
1:10:38
like I said. All pop episode, all puppets,
1:10:41
Yeah. I would assume so that you
1:10:42
didn't just get real worms in there.
1:10:44
Is is this like a a top down shot or are you somehow
1:10:48
puppeteering it like we vertically?
1:10:52
Shot it. I think we shot it vertically.
1:10:55
I. Think it was vertical I.
1:10:57
Think so. Oh, you know what, It might have
1:10:59
been top down because I think that was real like cork soil
1:11:03
that they put on top of there. So actually it might have been
1:11:06
straight down to make it look like it was vertical.
1:11:08
I don't remember. I don't remember either.
1:11:10
It's just interesting to see creatures in Fraggle Rock that
1:11:13
don't have like, that Muppity face, you know, like you expect.
1:11:16
Oh, we have worms. Well, they've got little mouths
1:11:18
and big bug eyes and whatever, but no, they're just like, like
1:11:21
real worms and real bugs. Yeah, we talked about that
1:11:23
because we were like, well, they're not in Fraggle Rock
1:11:25
proper, they're in the Gorg's garden soil.
1:11:27
So are they different? And then it became kind of like
1:11:30
for that moment, it felt like it's really more about the idea
1:11:32
of showing, you know, that life is life goes on, and there's
1:11:35
more, there's more even beyond the surface, so.
1:11:38
Yeah, absolutely. And yeah.
1:11:41
And as we said, Sprocket has buried Matt's backpack and Doc
1:11:45
finds it. I am so excited to find out what
1:11:48
happens. I really hope we get closure on
1:11:50
that because like we really didn't even get that on the old
1:11:53
show until the like the series finale when the Fraggle stuff
1:11:57
starts really leaking into into the Fraggle world.
1:12:00
Excuse me, the human world, with the exception of like now I'm
1:12:03
remembering there's an episode where Doc finds a doozer helmet
1:12:06
and thinks it's a ring. I.
1:12:07
Think it's out of his. Finger, but yeah.
1:12:10
But either way, it's still rare and exciting that stuff like
1:12:13
that can happen here. Yeah, it we were we had fun
1:12:17
having that moment of like, OK, what how do we where do we take
1:12:19
this next so. Right.
1:12:23
Yeah. And Speaking of where are we
1:12:24
taking things next? Our last scene here is Todd Ma.
1:12:29
He's like, oh, we had a happy ending.
1:12:31
And she says to him, well, it's also a happy beginning.
1:12:34
Wink, wink. He doesn't get it.
1:12:36
She's knitting a pair of socks and he says, oh, those are too
1:12:39
small for me. They're too small for Junior.
1:12:41
It's like they're for a baby gourd.
1:12:42
He still doesn't get it. And Ma confirms.
1:12:46
Yeah, there's a baby coming. And he has a great faint like
1:12:51
the the Frank and Andy Hayward, you know, teaming up on this
1:12:58
this puppet. The way that he just shoots
1:13:00
straight up and the eyes go wide and then he just falls straight
1:13:04
back is a great television fan. It's so good.
1:13:07
Yep, and then Junior realizes he's he's going to be a Big
1:13:11
Brother and he also faints and that's where we end season 2.
1:13:14
I love that, but I, I, I've so many questions about what this
1:13:17
could mean, but I don't want to ask them because I know that
1:13:20
you're, you're thinking about it in case there's going to be a
1:13:23
season 3. So I thought I'd rather see it
1:13:25
on TV. Well, I will, I will say this.
1:13:29
I will say that I am I'm I I am proud to say the mob being
1:13:35
pregnant moment was my idea and I was petrified to pitch it to
1:13:39
the room because I was like for two reasons.
1:13:41
One is I was like, what if everyone hates this idea?
1:13:43
But also because I always think everyone's going to hate my
1:13:45
ideas. But also I was like, this is a
1:13:47
major, major cannon shifter for the show, right?
1:13:51
And I remember like pitch shit. I was like, well, what if?
1:13:54
And then everyone loved it and I was like, OK, we're going to do
1:13:56
this. And then I remember like waiting
1:13:59
like the day before this season dropped, I was like, Oh my God,
1:14:02
Oh my God, is this where all the fraggle fans revolt and hate me
1:14:04
forever? Because I was like, I was like,
1:14:07
it is such a big change, you know, because it they're maybe
1:14:10
they're not well now they literally won't be the last of
1:14:12
their kind, right? So there's a there's a big shift
1:14:15
that happened there. But I also just thought it was
1:14:16
the most magical way to end the second season.
1:14:19
And the message again, to go back what Holly always preaches
1:14:22
is like, you know, I mean, this gets very Whitney Houston, but
1:14:25
the children are our future. And it's true.
1:14:27
And it's like, and they are the ones who they're going to solve
1:14:29
the problems. They're the ones who are going
1:14:31
to, you know, be the caretakers. And so that next generation is
1:14:35
what's to be hopeful about and what's to be hopeful for.
1:14:37
So I just, I just love it. I'm so glad that we were
1:14:39
inspired by that. But yeah, it was a, it was a
1:14:42
fun, fun, like top little secret that we had for a year, you
1:14:46
know, working on this. It's a little teeny.
1:14:48
Also lure for Apple, right? Like come on, let us have our
1:14:54
baby, Gorg. Don't.
1:14:56
Don't you want to see what happens, Apple?
1:14:59
Come on. Yeah.
1:15:01
We had that little cliffhanger end of season 1 with the with
1:15:03
the videotape and, you know, the camera down in Fraggle Rock and
1:15:06
stuff like that. So like, you know, I think
1:15:07
people love that too. Like, you know you want to get
1:15:10
people excited to keep watching. Exactly, Yeah.
1:15:13
So two questions. Number one, do you know where
1:15:16
what's going to happen? Like I mean, have you broken
1:15:19
that that at least that part of the story?
1:15:21
And second question is, if for some reason we don't get a
1:15:25
Season 3, will there still be some way that you can tell us or
1:15:30
or reveal the story in some other other media?
1:15:34
I'll, I'll just say that we absolutely have a plan for it
1:15:39
and we have an idea of what we want to do with the story and
1:15:42
how this all plays out and how it affects everybody.
1:15:45
And how that comes to be is a different conversation.
1:15:49
But I think that the the creative side of it is is
1:15:51
thought out. Yes, for sure.
1:15:53
Great, great. Well, fingers crossed that we
1:15:56
get we get to see it on our screens because I've been
1:16:00
thinking about it ever since it aired originally and just it's
1:16:03
frustrating. I'm sure it's frustrating for
1:16:05
you as well, but it's also frustrating for me.
1:16:08
I, I think that the potential, what whatever got really excited
1:16:12
about is the potential of how it will change and affect
1:16:17
everything. Because when you have a baby, it
1:16:19
changes everything. It really does, it changes the
1:16:22
family structure, it changes your life, it, your physical
1:16:24
living, it changes every, you know, how your pets react,
1:16:27
everything, everything changes. And so, you know, I think that
1:16:30
it's, it's an interesting thing when you have these three
1:16:32
interconnected worlds, 4 interconnected worlds, you know
1:16:34
how that, how that will, how that will change things.
1:16:38
I think it's exciting and how, how will react and how junior
1:16:41
will react and how Ma reacts and does the trashy babysit?
1:16:45
I don't know, but I think there's just a lot of
1:16:46
opportunities there. That's the plan.
1:16:49
I'm actually picturing the Fraggles babysitting, like just
1:16:52
kind of little Fraggles and one giant baby.
1:16:54
And what? How do they, how do they deal
1:16:55
with this? Yeah.
1:16:56
Gord. Maybe he's not.
1:16:57
Users engineering Where do the diabetes go?
1:17:02
True compost, yeah. You're right, yes.
1:17:06
Marjorie's like, I'll bring it over here.
1:17:07
Like smells delicious. Yeah.
1:17:11
So many possible. So at the end of every episode
1:17:14
of this podcast in this season, we've been asking the same
1:17:17
question to all of our guests, which has been how do you plan
1:17:20
to make the world a little fraglier?
1:17:22
I'm not going to ask you that right now because Johnny, we've
1:17:25
asked you that a couple times already.
1:17:26
And it's just a very big question.
1:17:28
But also I'm going to answer it for you, which is the way to
1:17:31
make the world a little more fraglier is for Season 3 renewal
1:17:35
on Apple TV. So my question to you is, is
1:17:41
there anything that the fans can do to help?
1:17:44
Yes, I mean, you know, we say it a lot, but it's true is that,
1:17:49
you know, people like the original series actually like
1:17:53
when people find Frackle Rock, they fall fast in love with it
1:17:57
and passionate about it. It it's getting people to find
1:18:00
it. So, you know, we live in a world
1:18:02
where there's a million streamers and there's a million
1:18:04
hours of content, and there's a lot of different shows for kids
1:18:07
and families out there. So tell everybody you know about
1:18:10
it. You know, don't say do you know
1:18:12
frag rock? Say, do you know frag rock?
1:18:13
Back to the rock streaming on Apple TV Plus right now, it's
1:18:16
brand new. These are not the old episodes.
1:18:19
These are brand new episodes that are made for today's kids
1:18:22
and families, I think. That's right.
1:18:23
You know, I, I, I can't tell you how many people I talked to
1:18:27
about the series and I say, oh, you know, they ask what you're
1:18:29
working on then, you know Fraggle Rock and they actually
1:18:32
think I worked on the original and they're like, oh, I love
1:18:34
Fraggle Rock. And I'm like, wait, no, no, no,
1:18:37
the new Fraggle rock back to the rock on Apple TV plus.
1:18:39
They don't know, but the minute they hear it, they say, I'm
1:18:43
going to go get it. I got I got to watch it.
1:18:47
So I think it's about, of course, spreading the word, but
1:18:50
also if you have an idea of like someone that has a bigger
1:18:54
platform. Or a brand.
1:18:55
Or a company and you're like, you just got to check this out
1:18:58
and like send the message out, you know, yes, more on Apple TV
1:19:02
Plus, of course. But just like you all were both
1:19:05
talking about just more Fraggle in every space, whether it's the
1:19:08
live show, tell them about the live show, go to the live show
1:19:13
and the live show is going to publicize the series on Apple TV
1:19:16
Plus. And I actually think that's a
1:19:18
very meaningful, you know, put together field trips with your
1:19:22
schools and preschools and and high schools to go and see the
1:19:26
production together. You know, I can't tell you how
1:19:29
many emails I've gotten about different groups trying to
1:19:33
organize to go see Wicked. So I'm like, it went for Frag
1:19:36
alive. You know, I'll make it the next
1:19:39
live event Wicked. So that would be incredible.
1:19:42
Yeah, but you're right, I think it's and they all kind of come
1:19:45
around the same thing, which is just like making people aware of
1:19:47
it and knowing that it's there and it's new.
1:19:49
And, you know, one of the one of those heart warming things I'll
1:19:53
just say really quickly is, is you know, my niece had a baby
1:19:56
and he's like six months old, I think at this point.
1:19:59
And, you know, which is much younger than we've ever designed
1:20:02
frackle rock for. But it's so funny.
1:20:04
He's obsessed with it. Like obsessed with it.
1:20:07
And like she'll send me videos of him standing in his crib just
1:20:09
staring at the screen and then dancing when the music comes on.
1:20:11
Like he's a sprocket. He's a love of sprocket.
1:20:14
So, you know, it's it's, it's a show that like.
1:20:17
It really does appeal to all ages.
1:20:18
And I get letters all the time from like, you know, fans, you
1:20:22
know who are, you know, who are discovering it for the first
1:20:24
time, not even grew up with the 80s.
1:20:26
Like they missed it in the 80s and they'll discover it in the
1:20:28
first time, like in their 60s. And they're like, Oh my God,
1:20:29
this show was, I love this show. So I really do think that it's
1:20:32
still got that power and it's just getting people to be more
1:20:35
aware of it. And I'm going to, I'm going to
1:20:37
add one thing to your, to your request of just telling people
1:20:41
that the show exists is when I tell people, oh, there's a new
1:20:44
Fraggle rock, a lot of times the reaction is, oh, because they
1:20:48
know that that's when shows are brought back.
1:20:50
They're not quite as good or it's like, it's like a watered
1:20:54
down version or whatever it is. And I have to always say, no,
1:20:56
no, no, it's great. It is a great show.
1:20:59
It is very respectful of the original.
1:21:01
It's a great follow up to the show that we already love.
1:21:05
If you have that moment of like, like, oh, Fraggle Rock, I liked
1:21:08
that show. It's like you're going to like
1:21:09
back to the Rock. You just got to watch it.
1:21:12
So yeah. So, so I think the lesson here
1:21:14
is if you want to make the world a little fragglier, get out
1:21:18
there, tell everyone you know to watch the show.
1:21:21
And then hey, there's also a companion podcast that you can
1:21:24
listen to right here on top that's.
1:21:25
Right. I'll also say I don't know when
1:21:29
this is going to air, but I'll also say this that, you know, we
1:21:31
also are so lucky to have the first season put out on DVD with
1:21:35
a lot of great pictures, which is so rare in our digital age,
1:21:38
right, that there's a DVD. And that's another thing that
1:21:41
for people who don't know about the show, it's a great gift.
1:21:44
It's a great introduction. It's physical.
1:21:46
So it's there in front of them. There's stuff on there like, you
1:21:49
know, I'm really not just doing this to promote the DVDI
1:21:51
promise. I'm actually saying like, I
1:21:52
think we live in a world where it's easy to get lost and it's
1:21:55
easy to like forget about things.
1:21:56
But you have a physical thing in front of you.
1:21:57
Like you said at the beginning about the dolls, right?
1:21:59
It's like it's a real thing. It's here, it's in front of me
1:22:02
like it exists, you know, so and then.
1:22:04
We have John, the Johnny and Karen's commentary.
1:22:07
Yes, which we cry on it. We tell funny stories like Karen
1:22:12
and I are exactly as you hear on the commentary.
1:22:14
We, it takes 3 seconds for us to start getting teary eyed about
1:22:17
something, but it's, but we had a blast doing it and actually we
1:22:20
recorded it. Fun fact, while we were doing
1:22:22
Comic Con, we were down in Atlanta and filmed it or
1:22:24
recorded it down there. So we were in the midst of like
1:22:28
the Fraggle magic of meeting all the fans and stuff like that.
1:22:30
So we were very sentimental and very in that space.
1:22:33
Oh. That's great.
1:22:35
Yeah, No, I'm so excited for that DVD set.
1:22:37
Like you said, it's rare to get that at all from any project,
1:22:41
and for Fraggle Rock to be releasing that.
1:22:43
I'll be honest, I didn't think that it was real when the news
1:22:46
dropped. I thought we were.
1:22:47
I saw you post about that. I was like and I almost, I, I
1:22:50
wanted to reach out to like Joe, but I couldn't do that yet.
1:22:52
But I wanted to. Next time.
1:22:55
Don't doubt us, Joe. I I don't want to be that guy
1:22:59
who's like everybody good news. And then they tell me, no, man,
1:23:03
you fell for it. Yeah.
1:23:05
Yeah, of course. You're like, I will be.
1:23:07
It will be confirmed before I say anything, darn it.
1:23:09
Exactly. We are professional journalists.
1:23:12
We are. We're telling.
1:23:14
We got real news over here. It's just puppet news, that's
1:23:17
all. Well, Haley Sanford, John
1:23:21
Sartaglia, thank you both so much for being here.
1:23:23
And more importantly, thank you so much for all that you did to
1:23:26
bring Back to the Rock to Life. I truly, truly love this show.
1:23:30
I would not be doing this whole podcast if I didn't.
1:23:32
And I'll be very sad if this is the end of this podcast.
1:23:36
So you all need to make more Back to the Rocks so I could do
1:23:39
another season of braggle talk Back to the Rock.
1:23:42
Deal. Yeah, deal.
1:23:44
And also I, you know, one can see it, but I've been smiling
1:23:46
the whole time watching these two talking.
1:23:49
You are such a a a fan and filled with so much joy and it's
1:23:53
such a pleasure to just hear you, you know, Kavel about a
1:23:58
Fraggle rock back to the Rockets.
1:24:00
Really. Yes, really.
1:24:02
Back and forth for hours on that.
1:24:04
And I'll give you guys credit for the fact that you guys have
1:24:06
been such fans and, and supporters of the show, but also
1:24:09
like the, the community that you've created with, with the
1:24:12
discord, the tough picks discord, because I'm, I, I
1:24:14
sometimes drop in there and it's, it makes my heart so happy
1:24:18
to see so many people so passionate about, about the
1:24:20
show. And just, you know, that you
1:24:22
guys are noticing all the little Easter eggs and all the little
1:24:24
like details and heart put into it.
1:24:26
And you know, like how he was mentioning her husband, Ian is
1:24:29
our, you know, our set back and all the little nods that they
1:24:33
put in the background. You know that just everyone's
1:24:36
doing because they care about the show.
1:24:37
The fact that everyone is noticing it and appreciates it
1:24:39
means the world to us. So so thanks to all of you.
1:24:42
Of course. Well, look, I mean, you, you all
1:24:44
make it easy to have something that we can build a community
1:24:48
around. You know, this is, is something
1:24:51
that it's, it's nice, it's joyful, it's hopeful, as we've
1:24:55
discussed in this episode, and it's something that we we want
1:24:59
to celebrate. You know, we're not, you know,
1:25:02
we're, we're, we're no longer saying, remember Fraggle Rock?
1:25:04
I kind of think that there was something that we haven't talked
1:25:07
about yet with that old show. It's like, no, there's so much
1:25:10
new stuff that we can all just celebrate as a, as a group.
1:25:14
And that's wonderful. I love, I love being a part of
1:25:16
that. And and again, like that's a,
1:25:18
it's a reflection of the production that you all have put
1:25:22
together. Thank you.
1:25:23
Thank. You.
1:25:25
Well, thanks again for being here and more Fraggle fun soon
1:25:28
I'm sure. Yeah, more Fraggle fun.
1:25:31
Yay group hug look. Up the babies.
1:25:47
Fraggle Talk, the unofficial Fraggle Rock Podcast is brought
1:25:50
to you by toughpigs.com. Produced, written and hosted by
1:25:53
Joe Hennes. Fraggle Talk art by Dave
1:25:55
Holtzing Junior, Fraggle Rock mark and logo, characters and
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elements or trademarks of Jim Henson Company.
1:26:03
Miller. Fraggle Rock theme song written
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1:26:12
entire Fraggle Rock back to the Rock family.
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1:26:35
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