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Kate Sharabura & The Power of Resilience · Yips and Giggles

• speaker-0: What's up guys? Welcome to our podcast. speaker-1: She finally realized that it was all mental. What's up, y'all? Welcome back to Yips and Giggles. Today we have a great guest for this episode, Kate Sheri Bura, an Atlanta native who spent four years playing Division I tennis at Georgia Tech. And now she is playing on the pro circuit. At Georgia Tech, Kate was a standout doubles player, reaching number one in the ITA national doubles rankings alongside partner Carol Lee, and was named a four-time ITA scholar athlete. And since graduating, Kate has competed professionally on the ITF and UTR Pro Circuits and has now completed her second season with Intense, a very fast-paced team-based professional tennis league that we get into in a couple of these episodes. She played for Team Fortune, and we really get into her journey from Georgia Tech to the Pro Tour to, you know, almost like the concert-like atmosphere of Intense, and what it's taught her about identity, community, and What team really means in an individual sport? So sit back and enjoy. ⁓ speaker-2: I'm good. I'm actually in Poland right now. ⁓ my god speaker-0: Hey, how are you? Gosh, so fun. Yeah, I was ⁓ I was tracking your tournament. Yeah, so congratulations and good luck. speaker-1: stalking you a little bit. ⁓ yeah. Well we appreciate you coming on. ⁓ a couple of intense players. We've talked to a couple of them. ⁓ such a cool speaker-2: Yeah, yeah. ⁓ just speaker-1: ⁓ Sophie Chang we talked to and Ellie Scholson we're talking to as well eventually. speaker-2: Nice. Yeah. yeah, everyone kinda knows each other. speaker-1: Yeah, I was about to say like it's it's not that many people, so you guys probably all like know each other. speaker-2: Yeah, no, we all like know each other by the end at least. We're all like at least friendly. speaker-1: Right, yeah, exactly. You've got some pretty strong Atlanta roots, right? Like I mean you've played at Georgia Tech, you grew up in Atlanta, like what do you love most about the sp about the city? speaker-2: I mean, I definitely like it a lot. Like I think obviously I've lived there my whole life. There's a lot of like really nice areas, a lot of stuff to do. I think like my maybe my favorite thing, this might sound weird, but there's like it's very green, like there's so many trees. It doesn't feel like you're just like trapped in a bunch of buildings, I guess. Like it's concrete. I also like the weather. I feel like it's like it doesn't get super cold, but there's also like, you know, definitely four seasons. That's nice. Yeah. It's a nice location too. It's like central to everything in the south. So ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. Is that one of the reasons why like you decided to go to Georgia Tech, kinda stick close to home? speaker-2: Actually no. speaker-1: Actually the opposite. speaker-2: No, like actually it was like a detracting factor. Like I did not want to speaker-1: Me too. Me too. speaker-2: And I just like really liked a lot of other things about the school. Like it just felt like perfect in the other senses. So was like, Okay, I guess it's fine. ⁓ sacrifice. On campus. So it wasn't like I was like at my house. So I felt like I had like a college experience. So speaker-1: Like, all right, I guess off. Yeah, it was cool that they had the whole intense league in Atlanta. So that was speaker-2: Yeah, that was like super kinda lucky for me. Yeah. Yes, exactly. ⁓ yeah. speaker-1: You're like perfect. Let's do this every year. What have you kind of been up to since the season ended this summer? speaker-2: Since in the intense season. ⁓ well, like basically immediately after I started playing tournaments. So I played a UTR in Auburn, like literally right when it ended, and then I flew to Spain right after that. I played three weeks of ITFs in a row. And then now I'm in Poland for my fourth ITF in a row. And then I'm about to go home in a couple of days. So really just been grinding tournaments since I wasn't able to play any ITF. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Back to the grind. speaker-0: We wanted to first talk about kind of your D one tennis career at Georgia Tech. So like we mentioned, ⁓ you played four years at tech, you were going into college, a five star, you know, top fifty nationally ranked recruit. ⁓ you decided to commit to Georgia Tech for the reasons that you just talked about. You're playing in one of the toughest conferences in the country, the ACC, ⁓ you know, unbiased from two big people as well. speaker-1: Ha ha ha. speaker-0: Was there anything that really like guided you with your transition to playing on a division one college team? You know, coming from the juniors where everything's kinda, you know, all about yourself, right? Like you as a tennis player to now going to college? speaker-2: Yeah. ⁓ I mean, I think definitely like I like talked to a lot of people in college, ⁓ just like kind of get a sense of like maybe how it was gonna be like. And then I would say honestly, like when I got to college, the like the upperclassmen or the older people on my team like definitely helped me out and were like, you know, helping me transition as well as my assistant coach. Like she would have meetings with me every couple of weeks and like help me kind of transition. ⁓ In that way. So I honestly felt like it was pretty easy 'cause like being on a team is in a way you have like more people surrounding you. So it's not as individual as, you know, juniors. It was more fun. Right. So I enjoyed it. speaker-1: Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Yeah. And ⁓ obviously doubles was kind of your superpower based on, you know, everything that you did at Georgia Tech. Kind of similar to Anya. She also had a double superpower as well. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah. speaker-2: Yeah, not to bring up a sore subject, but like when we meet you guys for the first time, it was like me and Carol. That was like our first like big win. I feel like it actually helped like a lot. speaker-1: Complimentary though. speaker-0: Wait, it was a breaker. speaker-2: That was like you guys were good, so speaker-0: Yeah, I do remember that. It was a breaker down to speaker-1: And you're just like But I mean, you've kind of always been good at doubles, ⁓ even in like juniors and things like that. But what do you think kind of clicked in college and kind of made you succeed so much at that level? speaker-2: Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, I definitely always like favored doubles even in juniors. I had like a lot better results in doubles. So I definitely had that like confidence. But I mean also to be f honest, like just playing with my partner, Carol Lee, like that was really amazing. I feel like we clicked really well and like we're just like really good pair in like a lot of different ways. And so I feel like, you know, we started off strong and then like I don't know, once momentum starts rolling, I feel like It just builds on itself. Like you you win, you feel better, you feel better, you play better, and then you just keep winning. So it just like I feel like it kind of was just like a domino effect in that way. And also like just having more coaching where they could like, you know, analyze film, like it was much more like personal. 'Cause in juniors obviously my coach couldn't travel with me. Right. And now it's like they're on the court all the time. You can practice with your doubles partner, which is also different from juniors 'cause you would just like play with somebody random and like hope for the best. But hey, what about like all of that all of that was like Definitely helpful. And yeah, we just got on a roll, which is great. speaker-0: I mean, a role I think is a little bit of an understatement. We just talked about you guys were like killing it and you you took out me and Brooke. I know, I know. You're welcome, by the way. I mean, you were an all American your freshman year, right? In doubles, you guys got up to as high as like number four in the country at that point, and then you were, I think, preseason number one the next year, two time all ACC Like speaker-2: That was the beginning of our role. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Lots of accolades. and so I'm I'm kind of curious. Like we talk a lot about ⁓ team culture on this show and and and doubles is basically like a kind of a two-person team inside of an individual sport and it's it's a very different way of thinking than singles, kind of like we already talked about. Like, can you can you describe your mindset as a doubles player and what you think I guess like specifically contributes to like a successful partnership in doubles? Like I know you said that you and Carol were kind of put together. But what was it about you guys that made you click? speaker-2: Yeah, I mean, I think like I mean just starting off like we're also like very good friends. I feel like that helps for sure. Like and I feel like that helps 'cause like if you ⁓ you you don't feel like they're as like mad at you or like that like weird feeling where they're like if you miss a return it's like, okay, like she's not gonna be mad at me, you know, like she trusts me. speaker-0: You say like sorry and they're like, It's it's fine. speaker-1: It's not gonna talk for the rest of this. speaker-2: Also set. I feel like, yeah, it was also like a a major like focus of us. And this is like our assistant coach also was big on this, like stay positive and like, you know, like cause momentum is so big in doubles, especially since it's one one set in college. Like you really have to stay positive and like hype each other up when someone is maybe like, you know, not doing as well. So I feel like yeah, almost okay. It was almost in a way like I was. maybe a little bit more emotional. Like I was like, you know, yelling, come on, like a little bit more like high energy. And Carol was more like consistently like just yeah, like that. I mean, she was still positive. But I feel like we like balanced each other out. Like I was like, you know, maybe giving her energy when she was maybe a little low and like she was balancing me out in a way. So I feel like there's that. And then just like tennis wise, I mean she has an amazing forehand. I prefer my backhand. So that was good. And then like she is super solid at the baseline. I also prefer the net. So it's like complimentary in that way. So Right. ⁓ yeah. I feel like it was just good. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: we're the same person. Except I prefer my forehand, my backhand. Sometimes. speaker-1: ⁓ I was about to say, Anya, what are you talking about? yeah, it is funny because in doubles like doubles has its own sort of pressure in the sense of like, ⁓ I don't want to let my teammate down. Do you ever feel did you ever feel like that? speaker-2: Yeah. Like definitely, yeah. I mean I was I don't know, I was also like a freshman, you know, I wanted to like prove myself in a way. Like there was definitely pressure. ⁓ but at the same time, like also freshman year it was it was better because there was almost no expectations on me as a freshman and also us as a pair because we had never played together before. And also like Carol the year before, like she kind of had a breakout year the the year that we started playing together. So like she wasn't, you know, having like amazing, you know, like all you know, all American results the year before. So like we didn't have ⁓ a lot of pressure coming in playing as a doubles player, which like definitely helped. speaker-0: Also, not to take the attention off you, but Carol wa played in the main draw of US speaker-2: No, that's so incredible how well she's doing. Yes. I'm like, wow. That's my dullest part of you know. speaker-1: So Like, I know her. speaker-0: I got her career there. She had a breakout year the second I came into the speaker-1: All because of you. Yeah. speaker-2: For sure. speaker-0: And technically that's all because of me then. speaker-1: yes. It all comes back to you, Anya. ⁓ that's hilarious. Yeah, no, I I always say like like you were saying with the whole freshman year, like not having pressure. I think the loosest I ever played was freshman year, like by far. Especially like fall season. Because at that point fall season was kind of just like a I don't know, you're just trying to play as much as possible and it's not I mean there's pressure, but it's nothing like the spring season was back then. But I always felt like freshman year it was like, Yeah, I can just Yeah. If you're playing against a senior, you're like, nothing to lose. speaker-2: I was gonna say another layer on this was I was actually a walk on, so I felt like even more like I had nothing like to lose. I was like if I lose every match like that's what's expected. So speaker-1: You're like I can only go up from here basically. No. speaker-0: So funny. But you ended up so yeah, that's that's also like a really cool fact, right? You were a walk on and then you ended up ⁓ working your way up to getting a scholarship ⁓ with the team. ⁓ like what what did that process look like and what was your mindset kind of was the mindset to get a scholarship or you were kind of just like I'm gonna stay? speaker-2: Definitely. Like I came to Georgia Tech with the intention of like earning a scholarship. because I mean like I had scholarship offers from other schools and I decided that like I really love tech and I wanted to go there. ⁓ but yeah, I mean the situation with I'm in state with Georgia, so and I had like an academic scholarship. So it wasn't like super expensive, but obviously I wanted to earn a scholarship. ⁓ but yeah, I mean I felt I feel like I did put a lot of pressure on myself and like to, you know, make lineup in singles and I mean not to do as well as I did in doubles. I wanted to make lineup in doubles. I wanted to like just travel honestly. And then I had like a great year. So yeah, I think like it was definitely something I don't know, I want to say like a chip on my shoulder, but I like definitely felt like I wanted to prove myself all the time and like definitely prove myself to the coaches because obviously I wanted to earn a scholarship. So that was like something that was on my mind. And I also wanted to like always be you know, working as hard as I could, like doing the off the off the court stuff well so that like they had nothing to say, you know, like they had no like excuse in a way. ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Do you feel like 'cause sometimes I feel like at least me personally, when I felt like I had something to prove, I almost got like tighter or I got more in my head, like it started affecting me mentally versus like when I didn't focus on those outside things. Did that ever happen to you or were you kinda just like cool as a cucumber like speaker-2: I also feel like it kinda motivated me in a way. Like maybe I'm just that type of person where like if people no, no, it's just like different types of like ways that you're motivated, I guess. But I feel like yeah, it kinda helps me in a way. Yeah. Like if yeah, no one I don't know. I feel like that just helps me. If people think I'm not gonna like do it, then I just like feel more motivated in a way. I don't know. speaker-0: Problem. speaker-1: Fair. It's got a little fire. Yeah. No, it makes sense. And speaking of academics, are you planning on using your biology degree when you're done with tennis? speaker-2: Yes. Yes. ⁓ I actually well, I'm actually currently like accepted into grad school. Yeah. ⁓ I mean I haven't like totally decided if I'm gonna go or keep playing tennis, but definitely like that's a very real option. It's a masters program for anesthesia. So building on biology. So yeah, definitely that I mean, and even if, you know, I don't decide to go this year, like I'm definitely gonna do that, I think. Go to school and then speaker-1: Very cool. speaker-0: Congratulations. speaker-2: ⁓ you yeah. So definitely on the table. speaker-1: Awesome. Very cool. Yeah. Because a lot of times like some people just don't have backup plans, so speaker-0: Yeah, that's what I'm speaker-2: Yeah, no, it was like important to me to have a backup plan for sure. Especially since I like put so much effort into my degree. I feel like like biology was tough, you know. Grindings. I wanted to like make sure there was a plan there, you know. Yeah. speaker-1: ⁓ my gosh. speaker-0: Very smart. And it's kinda it's kind of nice now too of like we we've talked about this a couple of times with other people like on the podcast, but now that college is like such a viable path towards the pros and it's not like when you turn eighteen you have to choose pro or college. And like if you choose college, you're most likely never gonna get a chance to go pro or not gonna make it. Like I don't know. I feel like it's just so much nicer for like those people who did do college and are now pro, like they already have that degree they can fall back on and Yeah. If something doesn't go their way. Yeah. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah, for sure. Did you always see yourself going pro or is that something that kind of developed over time? speaker-2: Like actually no. This is the funny thing about me. Like I told like my parents when I was young, I was like, I'm not going to Georgia Tech. Like there's no way. This is too close. And then I told my coach when I was a junior, like, I'm not gonna play pro. Like, I don't wanna do that. ⁓ huh. So I was just did not know what I was talking about, I guess. But no, I never wanted to play pro really until I got to college and also I like improved a lot in college. I was never like speaker-1: Heck no. speaker-2: elite or anything in juniors and I feel like I got like much, much better in college and I could kind of like see a path for myself in the pros. And that's like where I decided, ⁓ let me like give this a chance, you know, and I I yeah. I felt like I didn't want to stop tennis yet. And so like that's another thing. Like I would have never tried to go pro if I didn't play college. So there's like very much a stepping stone in a whatever. At least for me. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, it's a really good like development pathway for for some people. Some people are late late bloomers and other people are ready to go pro at eighteen and that's kind of the beauty of our sport of like it's not like there's a a draft when you turn eighteen and you either make it or you don't. So speaker-2: Yes. speaker-1: No, seriously. And you are obviously playing a lot on the ITF and the UTR pro circuits and everything. For our listeners, can you kind of describe what the difference is between those tours and in terms of like point system traveling, things like that? speaker-2: Yeah, so I would say like the ITF tour is like the main pro tour. It's like the the baby version of WTA and like, you know, the WTA tournaments are like, you know, the Grand Slam tournament. So this is like the smallest version of that, I would say. And like you play those, you get points. ⁓ and they're very international. So No, there's only so many locations that they offer. Right now there's really nothing in America. So I had to travel to Poland, you know. Right. ⁓ so you end up traveling like kind of around the world playing these tournaments. But the problem is that there's very little prize money, especially in the very early stages or like the smaller tournaments where I'm at right now or where most people are at. And you really don't make a profit until you're like top one hundred is where you make a living, kind of. Yeah. ⁓ and then obviously traveling is expensive. I mean the prize money, like just to give you an example, I played I made the finals of a W fifteen, which is like the lowest version. I made the finals of doubles and for the week I made a hundred and eighty Euros. That's so ridiculous in Spain, which is ridiculous for the entire speaker-1: Kill it. speaker-0: It doesn't even cover like the cost of you staying there. Like not even if you're in a hostel. speaker-2: I like speaker-1: I I don't understand it. I really don't understand it. Like how do they expect people to keep playing these tournaments? speaker-2: No, and like they did take taxes out of it, but I mean it's like it's just ridiculous. Right. But yeah, anyways. But then so the D UTR tour is also pro. ⁓ you don't really get points for it, but it's a lot of the times more local. There's more US options and the prize money is like significantly better. So if you win the tournament, you get like three thousand. Even if you like, you know, lose three, win a couple, you get like You know, several hundred, like five, six, seven hundred, even if you have like kind of a bad week. So it's like great for first of all matches because you have like I think six guaranteed matches in week. And ITFs, if you lose, you're done. So you could have one if you have a bad week. ⁓ it's brutal. So you two are yeah, there's more matches and like significantly more money. So people do that just kind of like supplement in a way, like get match play with less pressure and also just to get money. But at the same time, you don't get ranking points and it's not sustainable if you want to like really make it to the top level 'cause you're not getting any points out of it. So yeah, that's the difference. speaker-0: So so how do you like balance choosing between like ITF or UTR on a certain week? speaker-2: Yeah, I mean it's kind of tough since you kinda have to choose your own schedule as a pro tennis player. But usually like I'll try to do a UTR before I go and play like several ITFs so that I feel like I'm kind of like prepared in a way. Like I've had a lot of matches. That's what I did for this stretch. Like I played one UTR and then I played like three or four ITFs. Right. yeah. Or like if I'm home for a stretch, like maybe I'll play a UTR in there. ⁓ but usually like ITFs you play several at a time because If you're gonna travel to Europe, like you might as well play several while you're there. Right. So speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. We ⁓ Glasgow actually has quite a few UTR pro tournaments. Like randomly. So if you ever need a place to stay, like earlier. Yeah, they do they randomly have a lot on you. Like I'll go and watch with Oustor. And it's actually it's great tennis to watch. And they actually speaker-2: ⁓ Yeah. speaker-1: If they still do it at the same like tennis center, they do it up. Like they'll have like ball girls and boys, they'll have like umpires. Yeah, they actually they'll have like a little section for like a crowd. Like it's actually pretty good viewing and stuff. So highly recommend. I don't really recommend coming in the winter. It's kind of awful, but like it's indoor. It's indoors normally. So ⁓ but even so, like being here in the winter just kind of sucks. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: but it's an option. So are you normally playing singles and doubles at all of these? speaker-2: Yeah. ⁓ that's another thing I forgot about the UTR only has singles. So that is a problem if I'm right like doubles a little bit more. But anyways, I am playing for all these ITFs, I yeah, I'm playing singles and doubles. And obviously the UTR are just singles. But yeah. speaker-1: And so w with the doubles, how do you go about finding a partner when you're literally traveling all over the world? Like you you've played with a couple of different people, right? So how do you kind of go about asking people to play? speaker-2: Yeah, I mean it's definitely not as convenient as college because a lot of the times you can't like train with the person. ⁓ I mean, in the beginning it was definitely tough. I was just like DMing people like that I knew or sometimes didn't know. speaker-1: True. ⁓ So rough. speaker-0: It's like back it's honestly back to juniors. Like speaker-2: When you do it, it really speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Well, no, it was like when my mom would like text the pi the parent of someone else and be like, Do you wanna play with my daughter? I'm like, We need to get their number for speaker-1: I really hope my kid doesn't want to play tennis because I have no desire to do that. speaker-2: Yeah. so I was I was on the DM grind for sure for a while. But like now that I've started playing more, like I know more people and I try to also like schedule tournaments around if I know I can get a doubles partner. So like at least for this tournament I'm playing with one of my old teammates. So like we plan to travel together and that was like you know, you know, it was like part of the reason why I came to Poland and not somewhere else. Right. And then ⁓ I was in Spain and ⁓ I actually played with this girl. I mean, I DM'd her, but we actually played in a match at a UTR in Portugal. We had like a three set battle. I won, like barely. And then we were playing like two weeks later and I was like, I need a doubles partner. So I DM'd her and I was like, Can we play doubles? And I was like hoping she would say yes. Cause like she knows I'm like kind of decent. And then she said yes and we made finals. And so we had a good week. And then after that, like we just have been playing. So like once you get a good result with somebody, usually, you know, they'll wanna play with you more and like it kinda goes like that. But it's definitely tough when people are playing different tournaments and like Yeah. speaker-0: So again, everyone's like just organizing their own schedule, what's best to their needs. and actually I read an article where you kind of talked about like how different it is from being like how different it is being fully self-organized and like self-funded on tour. So like, you know, again, going from that like fully structured college tennis program being a pro on your own. This was a an article about intense, but you mentioned that in the so like speaker-2: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-0: How do you like I I imagine like again, like just in terms of like building a schedule and like making travel plans and like having to find coaching opportunities, right? Like when you come back, like what are the main challenges you face in terms of that? And then also just how do you keep your life like off the court in balance? Because I feel like all I would ever be doing is thinking about if I'm off the court thinking about like, okay, I need to book my travel here, I need to figure out who to play doubles with here, I need to figure out when I'm gonna go see my coach. speaker-2: Definitely. speaker-0: Like how do you stay sane? speaker-1: Yeah, basically. speaker-2: Like I try to do it in like chunks in a way. Like I'll schedule like a block of tournaments kind of at one time. So like when I was planning to go to Spain, like I booked my flight, like at one time and then like you know, I signed up for all the tournaments at that one time. ⁓ I mean, sometimes week to week I just kinda like wing it. I mean, that sounds terrible, but like I knew I was like traveling with this girl and we were like, Okay, like we'll find somewhere for next week. And it was like, you know, Friday of the week before, but I don't know. I feel like I always end up figuring it out. And so that kind of like gives me a little bit of peace. I'm like, I'll be all right. Like I'm not gonna be homeless. Like I'll figure it out. but it's definitely like it definitely weighs on your mind at times. So like I mean and when it when possible I try to like do advanced planning or like do it in in blocks so then like I don't think about it, you know, during the day. I'm like, I'll figure this out like, you know, on Friday night. Right. And then usually I like talk to my mom as well. Like she helps me figure things out and that's that helps. ⁓ but w in terms of my coach, I mean I have a coach at home which definitely like helps a lot as well. And then every time I'm not playing tournaments, like I go back home and I can train with him. So that's like kind of easy. I can just go home and and have somewhere to you know, someone to work with. So that's nice. speaker-1: Sure. Yeah, for sure. And going from college to pro, obviously, it's kind of a different type of motivation. Like when you're on a team, it's like, ⁓ I want to win for my team, you know. And now it's more so like very individual. So how do you kind of foster that sort of internal motivation now that you don't have like a full team around you? speaker-2: Yeah, I mean it's definitely difficult. Like at first I was kind of feeling a slight like lack of motivation after college because I was like, ⁓ you know, where's my team? You know, like I felt like there was not as much riding on it. But then I don't know, in a way I started thinking out of it as like my job. It's like I I like I have to lock in, you know, like this is this is more than just like a tennis match, like right, you know, this is serious. Like I'm I'm putting a lot into this. And also just the fact that like, you know, I'm putting I'm I'm traveling across the world like There's is importance on the match. Like I'm gonna I guess put everything I have into this because yeah. And then I also think like I'm not gonna be able to do this forever. So true. I might as well put everything I have into it now and then like, you know, I can look back on these years and be like, you know, I tried my best. speaker-1: Yeah, a hundred percent. speaker-0: No regrets. Yeah. You don't want to leave with any regrets. But again, like traveling all over the world, I know you said you travel with people like a lot of the times, but do you ever get lonely? Like what what's the most part of that? speaker-2: Yeah, like that's why I travel with people is because like if I don't, it's actually sad. Like I like in s in Spain, I was traveling with this girl who was my doubles partner and she's Spanish. So like after one of the weeks in our doubles, like we had a couple days before the next tournament, and she went home to to Barcelona and I just like went straight to the next tournament. So I like alone for like two days and I realized I was in like a horrible mood. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: Like I literally realized it was just 'cause I was alone. So So I was like, Okay, maybe I need to be aware of this. But yeah, like I'm definitely a social person. But like I think being aware of it now, like I'm like, Okay, I'm in a bad mood 'cause I'm alone. Like it's not anything else. Like I'm more of aware of it now, so I can deal with it. But yeah, I definitely try to like meet up with people and also just like FaceTime my friends back home, like things like that help for sure. speaker-1: Yeah, it's it's good to have the social support whenever you can for sure. Because yeah, like I'm not trying to make this about myself, but for example, like when I moved over here to Scotland and I didn't know a single soul and it was just like my husband and me. And I was like, I I was like, I need to find friends like like ASAP. Like ASAP. So I understand. I understand how you felt in that situation. Because I was also in a horrible mood for like half a year. speaker-0: Well that also like probably starts like weighing on your mental state at some point, right? Like and like s just starts affecting every like facet of your life. I don't know. I feel like I feel like having like connection with people is actually so important for like your mental health. speaker-1: Yeah. Hey, hierarchy of needs, baby. That's part of it. That is part of it. Definitely. A hundred percent. but I also think did intense kind of give you that back a little bit because you were on a team? speaker-2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean it was like so fun and in a way it almost like it made going on the tour like even more like the difference was like so obvious, you know. It was like during during the summer, the two months, like I was genuinely so social. Like I was doing something every single day and like I was never I was almost like too busy with like things to do, you know? And then like I go on tour and it's like I'm just sitting in the hotel like alone, you know. Yeah, no, but intense was like really, really fun. I feel like I made a lot of speaker-1: Yes, it was a contrast. I don't wanna leave you. speaker-2: friends that hopefully like I'll be able to be in contact with for a while or like people that I'll see on the tour and I can, you know, say hi to and yeah, things like that. So for sure. It's great. speaker-0: That's awesome. And it was your it was your second season at Intense this year. You were on Team Fortune. ⁓ again, we already mentioned we had Sophie Chang on the podcast, but just a quick explanation for those who hadn't listened to that episode. Can you quickly explain like what is Intense? Like how is it different from traditional tennis and what drew you to it? speaker-2: Yeah. So basically it's a professional tennis league, but they have kind of changed the rules of tennis a little bit and their goal is to kind of make it much more like exciting and like you know, engage the fans a little bit more. So it's not quite as like traditional tennis where you have to like, you know, be quiet during the point and like be all classy. Like it's they're trying to make it almost like I would say almost like a basketball type of environment where people are like yelling during the point, like very loud. There's like timeouts, like things like that. They want it to be much more engaging for the fans. So some of the different rules are first of all, it's timed. and there's, you know, timeouts, ⁓ substitutions. There's a winner is worth two points. There's only one serve. And also the time between points is much shorter. So there's like it's very fast paced. and yeah, it's a team of each team is eight people, four boys, four girls. And there's women singles, men singles. Women's doubles, men's doubles, and mixed doubles. And so you kind of play all of those. And then at the end, the team with the most points wins. And yeah, it was so it was a there were ten teams and it was like a two month period. And yeah, we had matches every week and we would train with our teams and yeah, it was really fun. Another thing is another big thing, ⁓ sorry, is they actually had salaries for the players. So that was like a huge benefit and reason why a lot of people joined is because speaker-1: Yeah, and all you speaker-2: like the pay was just such a dramatic difference from the ITF and even UTR tours, like yeah. So and also another thing, I keep forgetting. Like you it was all in Atlanta. So it wasn't traveling. So like huge difference in the ITF where you're traveling around the world and losing a ton of money. So it was like for tennis players. So yeah. ⁓ yeah, it was good. speaker-0: I was gonna ask what what drew you to it, but ⁓ yeah, yeah. speaker-1: You just speaker-2: Sorry. Yes. I actually well, first of all I was in Atlanta, so that was great. Second of all, it's a salary and it's like a way to kind of fund me traveling around the world because as I mentioned, I'm not making a ton of money on this ITF tour. So it was like a way to fund that. And also just like just kind of, you know, like have some fun, you know? Yeah. ⁓ and also like the reason I even knew about it was because they had an event at Georgia Tech like two years ago and they had like all the Georgia Tech players kind of participate in the event and that's how I heard about it. And then after I graduated, like I reached out to the the teams and they drafted me on Team Tampa. It was back then and I played some matches, made a lot more money than I was expecting, had a lot more fun than I was expecting. And yeah, I wanted to do it again. So then this year I signed up for the draft. I got drafted and then yeah, that's how it happened. speaker-1: It's very cool. Very cool. It's a it's a cool format and it's a cool setup. And yeah, the financial part is definitely a win, I will say that. what was it like playing in such a loud environment? Because we are so you I mean, well, actually I will say there's so much chat about the US Open being super loud. And like the influencers are like getting up in the middle of points and like taking videos. I'm like, guys, what are we doing? What are we doing? speaker-2: Yes. speaker-0: Right. speaker-1: ⁓ but but ⁓ but what was that like? Did you like it? Or yeah. But like get ⁓ on the court, like what are we doing? But what was that like, like playing in such a loud environment? speaker-2: No. I mean, to be like at first it was I was actually very nervous, which I wasn't like totally expecting. No because I mean there's people there. There's also like a live stream and like commentators and you know, just like a lot of people. So I was a little bit nervous. But to be honest, like the noise doesn't really bother you. Like once you get in the zone, I don't know. I feel like I got used to it very quickly and honestly it didn't even bother me like at all. ⁓ like the only things I think that would bother me is like if it was maybe a little bit quieter and you can like hear specific comments that the other team is making, like that type of stuff maybe. But a lot of the times during the matches it was like so loud that you couldn't even hear it. So it was just like kind of background noise at a certain point. So yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, d do do teams like trash talk each other? speaker-2: Yes, they like encourage that. speaker-0: Is it like really really like mean and personal? Good old fashion ⁓ good old fashioned traffic. speaker-1: Who's the most obnoxious? speaker-2: This guy Max Benson. I mean for sure everyone's gonna say speaker-1: Calling out names, name drop in here. speaker-2: No, like he's my friend. He's a great guy. But he like he I feel like it's his goal to be the most obnoxious person, to be honest. Like he's so loud. But yeah, he's great. He really brings a lot of energy, I would say. Yeah. speaker-1: That's a nice way of putting it. speaker-0: Yeah, I feel like it would almost like remind me of college in a way, except college is just like loud after a point, although there's like six matches going on at the same time. So in that in that sense. speaker-2: Yeah, ⁓ like there's yeah, in college people were changing your point, you just had to play through it and it is what it is. speaker-1: Yeah, no, a hundred percent. And like with the different format and you know, like the one toss, one serve, do you feel like any part of that format almost improved your game and has helped you in your pro career? speaker-2: Like, yeah, I think my second serve has gotten like a lot better, I would say. Or maybe like, yes, and also my like confidence in my ability to win second serve points. I feel like before this, like my serve is like a weapon of mine. And so I felt like, ⁓ if I missed my first serve, like I just lost, you know, my my weapon or whatever. But then they totally took that away. So then I had to learn how to kind of win points just with my second serve. So I feel like definitely I'm more confident when I just have a second serve now. speaker-0: And was there any like ⁓ also like a along that, like any any sort of like more aggressive playstyle too, because there's like that point system right where you get extra points for hitting winners? speaker-2: Yeah. Actually that's like a bit misleading because people like I feel like hear that and try to like just go for winners all the time. And it's actually like not a great strategy because then you just miss more. Like some of the best players were kind of like just more consist not like pushers, but like they were like solid players that would like, you know, go for it when they got the chance. But like interesting. Definitely weren't like the most aggressive. I feel like actually the more solid players were better. Also because there's so little rhythm and intense because speaker-0: That's fair. speaker-2: like the ti you know, the substitutions, like you don't get that much rhythm. That like sometimes the aggressive players would almost miss more because there was like such a lack of rhythm. I feel like maybe that was part of it. speaker-1: Yeah, I was I was curious, like, with that point system, which way it would swing. Like are people gonna try and be more, you know, bigger targets and things like that? speaker-2: I mean, for me like I mean, obviously like I'm an aggressive player so I'm not gonna stop being aggressive, but like I think it's definitely not like you're just, you know, going for winners all the time. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. We've got to be smart about it. are there any like rivalries yet between certain teams? ⁓ speaker-2: ⁓ yeah, there's there's like one, I would say. ⁓ it's like Smash and and Freeze. There's like a bit of drama because one of the guys I'll get into the drama, yeah. There was like one of the guys on on Smash, like went for one of the girls on Freeze and Mixed Doubles like a couple times at the net. And so like it was like a whole big thing. And then they were like yelling at each other. Yeah. There was a whole like Instagram like war in the comment section. They had to delete it. Yeah. speaker-1: I love tennis drama. It's so good. speaker-2: People's like significant others got involved. Yeah, it was a whole thing. speaker-1: Wait, that's so good. speaker-2: Yeah. There it was like eighty three comments on this post, like genuinely. speaker-0: God. ⁓ speaker-1: Also, why are we doing it on like a public social media page? speaker-2: That's a great question. I don't know. But it was kinda funny to be honest. That adds speaker-0: Hey, it just shows like how into it people are and like how much it's growing every year, right? speaker-2: No, I actually feel like it like kinda added to the the environment that they want to create, you know? The drama. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ are you planning on coming back next year to intense? speaker-2: Definitely for sure. I mean, hopefully I get drafted, you know. ⁓ I think like the level is definitely gonna increase from this year 'cause more people are hearing about it. Yeah. Right. So I mean, if I get drafted, I would yeah, I would love to play it, I think. speaker-0: ⁓ Okay, so pro tour life or intense league, which one do you think is more nerve wracking? speaker-2: ⁓ definitely like pro tour life I would say. I feel like well, I don't know. It's like weird. Like in the in the actual match, intense, like I feel like I felt more nervous, but like in general the pro tour is more stressful. Or nerve wracking in a way. speaker-1: That's speaker-0: Those are like speaker-1: Totally fair. There's a lot of factors that go into that for sure. Yeah. yeah, you're kind of just like depending on it and your livelihood. ⁓ that's one part of it. ⁓ Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. speaker-2: It's like, am I gonna go bankrupt? speaker-0: I mean tennis is such a just ⁓ again, I touched on it slightly, but tennis is just such a weird sport in terms of that where it's like, yeah, you have to work your way up and every single week like could make or break your career, right? And it's like if you don't win, you're not getting the ranking points to get into bigger tournaments so that you can go from making one eighty Euros to two eighty Euros and then no two thousand Euros, you know, like speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: Three hundred. speaker-0: Yeah, I have so much respect for the people who are on tour because it's just so challenging. Like I tr I can't yeah even imagine. speaker-2: It's a lot of respect for sure. It's a definitely a grind in a lot of ways. Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Yeah. And what's what's next for you after Poland? speaker-2: I'm going home finally. I've been playing for like five weeks now. So I'm gonna go home. Yeah, reset a little bit. No some US tournaments. speaker-1: Yeah, you're going home. Back home. That's good though. speaker-0: Do you have any weird superstitions in tennis? Or off the We've been asking people this, yeah. speaker-1: We've been asking we've been asking everyone. speaker-2: I have honestly like a lot of them are from juniors that I've just like carried over. I have like a weird thing with like going to the towel at the back fence. Like I will like only touch the towel on like only the ad side or like only the doof side. speaker-1: I love it. speaker-2: Or like sometimes I'll like go back there and like not touch it or like touch with my racket. Like but it always alternates side to side. Like it's right. There's an always an alternation. And then like I have a thing where like if I have a water bottle and like if I finish the water bottle, it means that I'm gonna like finish the set, you know? So like up five four. But like say I'm saying down four five, like I'm not gonna f I'm gonna leave a little bit because then I don't want like I can't lose the set, you know? No speaker-1: You're like. speaker-0: That makes sense. See, like those actually make sense. speaker-2: I don't know. speaker-1: No, I'm gonna speaker-0: understand the thought process behind it. I understand the thought like some like some like the ones where it's like I only wanna play I had this one. I if I win the point I wanna play with the same ball. Like that makes sense. Won the point. Some there people do that are like so bizarre. speaker-1: No, that makes sense. Mine was if I was wearing like a pullover or anything and I was winning with that pullover on, I could not take that pullover off. Like I was pla no matter how h hot I got, I was like, I'm keeping this on because I can't change like it was almost like a feel thing. Like if it if I felt different like only wearing like a tank top or something, I don't know. I don't know. That I that's just how insane tennis players are. speaker-2: Judge it. speaker-0: Yeah. I know, I know. I had I had some weird ones. speaker-1: No, it's such a thing though. Like I feel like in tennis it's it's huge. speaker-2: No, it it is for sure. speaker-1: It's such a nitpicky sport, so speaker-0: Yeah, tennis players are kind of psychotic. have you ever had the yips on any stroke? speaker-2: Yes. Actually, this was a funny thing. Last summer it was because of intense. And I had toss. And I don't know if this counts as a stroke, but like I okay, never in my life have I had an issue with my toss. Like I've always been able to toss relatively normally. And then I remember telling somebody, somebody asked me, it was like, ⁓ like is intense tough 'cause you only get one toss? And I was like, No. Like speaker-1: ⁓ speaker-2: And genuinely, like for two weeks, I could not toss the ball. Like it was insane. I was like my arm was glitching. Like I I couldn't Yes. And because of intense, like I had to hit it. And it was like it was like genuinely a problem. I was getting concerned. And it was insane because never in my life have I had an issue with that. And then all of a sudden someone just makes a comment and I can't toss. Like for two weeks, it was speaker-1: Do not. speaker-0: Yeah, you're hitting like serfs like over speaker-2: It was crazy. I'd never experienced anything like that. But yeah. It really luckily I was it was no matches during that time, so it's fine. speaker-1: That's good. It it really does happen to a lot of people though. Like a lot. Yeah. ⁓ I I I don't know the specific psychology behind it being the toss. Like I I had it as well at Wake. I think it was my maybe junior year. We were playing at Louis Villagna. I genuinely I couldn't do it. Like I I couldn't do it. I was like, what is wrong with otherwise I was playing well. Like everything else was totally fine. But every time and normally like I again, I also felt like my serve was one of my bigger weapons. And so I relied on that a lot in doubles. And I was like, I what am I doing? Genuinely, it's such a bad feeling. But sometimes it just like it'll just disappear. It'll just go away. speaker-0: Like did you do anything specific to kind of fix it or it kinda just went away by itself? speaker-2: Like no, it just went away. I don't know. speaker-1: That's what most people say though. That's the crazy part. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, 'cause honestly when I had the yips on my backhand, like the more I tried to work on it, the worse it got. Yeah. Like honestly. Like it was speaker-2: Yeah, sometimes like I was trying to like focus on like how I was tossing. I was like, I don't even know how I toss, like I don't even know what to like it's just so easy, like speaker-1: I feel like a lot of it's overthinking. Like honestly, just take it back to the basics. That's yeah. As simple as it can get. But that's interesting 'cause a lot of times it speaker-2: Yeah. I remember actually this is this is just coming back to me, but I was like watching a movie with my friend and I was like genuinely practicing tossing with like a Rubik's Cube, like the whole movie. I was like speaker-1: This is gonna fix it. speaker-2: Trying to get it back. Maybe it's the Rubik's here, maybe that's what helped. speaker-1: I'll recommend that. Yeah. That's hilarious. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: Well, pain psych, maybe if you're distracted by the movie and then you're doing it, it helps. I don't know. You're the psych professional here. Specifically Star Wars, yeah. It probably yeah, it probably stems from some form of like anxiety or something like a hundred times. Yeah, like someone mentioned something to you about the toss that you never even thought about and you started thinking about it a little too much and in the back of your head you got like speaker-2: Star Wars. speaker-1: I am Hundred and ten percent. speaker-0: S you n may may have not even like felt it, but like y you might have gotten some anxiety or stress and then next thing you know you can't toss for two weeks. Like speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: I also think I watched Brooke struggle with it so much that it almost like transferred to me. I was like, wait, I don't want this. It's like a disease. I don't want that. Don't give that to me. I think that's pretty much all we have on you. Is that it? speaker-0: That was fun. That was cool. speaker-1: So any questions for us? No, I'm kidding. Yeah. No, you're sorry. Yeah. Don't do a whole hour of us. Good luck tomorrow. Hope you Yeah, thank you. speaker-0: Your turn. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: Thank you so much for coming on again. speaker-2: Of course, thanks for inviting me. speaker-0: Yeah. We'll ⁓ continue cheering you on and keep track of your results and stuff. speaker-2: Thanks, guys. speaker-1: See you soon. Yeah. Thank you all for listening. Give us a follow here on Apple or Spotify. Or you can also watch our podcast videos on YouTube. You can also find us on our Instagram or TikTok at Yips and Giggles to see what we're up to. See you next week. And of course, in the meantime, don't take life too seriously and have a laugh on us.