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Carl Sagan: American Hero · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to you stuff you should know from house Stuff
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Josh Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and Noel. The
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Stint of Noel is winding down sadly. It's such an
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: awkward thing having no here, no the stint of knol Right,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Oh you mean the wording? Yeah, wording is fine? All right?
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: How you doing? I'm fine, just like that wording. I'm sleepy?
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Why about I've just been staying up late, writing until
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: one and two in the morning like a dope like
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  Speaker 1: a seventeen Oh yeah, yeah, a manifesto. No, no, just
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: staying up too late, that's neat. Do you drink wine
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: while you type? Last night? It was bullet bourbon? Yeah,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: and then you're just like, I'm not typing words correctly anymore.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: And then time for bed. You get on a roll
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  Speaker 1: and then you look up and it's to two am.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Nice man, I'm glad to hear that six thirty yearlls
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  Speaker 1: around and here we are. That's awesome. Yeah, that's great.
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  Speaker 1: So you're creative juices are flowing. They're flowing, baby. You
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: know who else is juices were flowing and still flow
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  Speaker 1: through this universe. Carl Sagan, he was. He was a
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  Speaker 1: creative science type. Yeah, and it made him kind of controversial. Man.
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  Speaker 1: It also made him beloved, beloved, and uh, I think
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  Speaker 1: one of like the precursors to what we do, you know.
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  Speaker 1: In fact, he there's a quote on him being an explainer,
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  Speaker 1: which I thought was very cool, which is the geekiest
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: term ever, but it's a pretty it's a good term science. Yeah,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: he said. I think I'm able to explain things because
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: understanding wasn't entirely easy for me. Some things that the
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: most brilliant students were able to see instantly, I had
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: to work to understand. I can remember what I had
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: to do to figure it out. The very brilliant ones
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  Speaker 1: figure it out so fast that sounds familiar. They never
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  Speaker 1: see the mechanics of understanding out. I really identified with that,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: and like, man, that's kind of what we do. You know.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: We worked really hard to understanding this because we're not experts,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: and he wasn't an expert on one thing. He covered
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of That's what made him unique, A lot
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  Speaker 1: of different facets of science. Yeah, which you don't see much.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: No you don't. I mean it does pop up here
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  Speaker 1: and there. But if you if you think about the
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: people who are like that, like Jared Diamond is a
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: really good current example Neil Type. No, that's Dustin Diamond.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Jared Diamond. Uh man. I don't even remember what he's
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: trained in. He's just such a generalist. But he wrote
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: like guns, germs and steel. Um, he's got a little
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: a little Robert bork Beard, good guy. Um, he's one.
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  Speaker 1: Neil deGrasse Tyson has definitely become one, although he's still
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: very much an astrophysician, right, yeah, but he's he's sort
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: of talked about a lot of times in terms of
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: being like Sagan, and not just because as he rebooted Cosmos,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: which was Sagan's show, but um, oh yeah, he's just
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: the face of science, Like he's the go to guy.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, like he was the obvious choice for Cosmos
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  Speaker 1: because he was already so much like Sagan, following in
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: those footsteps for sure. Those other guys, just like Brian
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Green as a science explainer, Bill Nye as a science explainer. Um,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: they're definitely out there for sure. But you can you
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: make a good point that Sagan was one of the originals,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: if not the original but the idea that he was
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  Speaker 1: somebody who was willing to draw parallels from different disciplines
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  Speaker 1: in science or bring him together to create, um, something
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: approachable for people, to kind of invigorate people's love of science.
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  Speaker 1: I think it's amazing. Yeah. It made him beloved. It
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: also just made him not reviled. This is not the
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: right word, but he was definitely criticized in the scientific establishment.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Uh in parts. For sure. Some people in the scientific
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: establishment loved him, and some were like, uh, you're not
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: doing much real research. You know, you're just sort of
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: a face guy. And um, I poo poo that entirely
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: and say that he did a lot for science and
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: people like him are are necessary, and uh, I value
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: their work. Okay, you're taking a stand. Huh. Yeah, man,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Carl Sagan is amazing. He's one of my heroes. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: he's like. I watched Cosmos when I was ten years old.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: I have never seen it. Man, it was great. I
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: mean it was a PBS show that had tens of
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: millions of viewers. Millions and millions, So that's you're saken. Yeah,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: And you know what he he told Johnny Carson. He
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: never said billions and billions Uh, he said billions of
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: pond billions, right, I never heard it. There's a super
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: cut on YouTube of all of his billions, millions and
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: trillions from Cosmos cut to uh with it like hip
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: hop music, bed and um is a glorious down. I
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: don't remember the name of it. There's one. There's a
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: video a song that somebody created with him, a super
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: cut of him. It's called Glorious Toll. It's pretty great. Well,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: I never heard billions and billions in there. There's a
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: lot of billions and millions and trillions. He loved those words,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: but he said I never specifically said billions and billions,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: and I couldn't. I didn't hear it either, So he's
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: a misunderstood genius. Yeah, they became I think Carson did
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: at first, or maybe it was Saturday Night Live, and
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: then that just became the thing, billions and billions, because
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: he is a weird little dude for sure, in a
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: lot of ways, easily parody, but he also seemed to
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: have a fairly good sense of humor about himself at
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: least and in general. He smoked grass. He thought grass
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: was far out man. We just vaulted back in time
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: with that one he smoked the marijuana grass making a
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: contemporary He was on the pot, Yeah, he did. He
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: liked to smoke weed and um. In fact, I have
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: a quote here from he wrote an essay and best
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Pavement album by the way. He wrote an essay. I
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: don't know about that. Yeah, what's your favorite? Um? I
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: planned it in Enchanna the first one it's hard. Although
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Crooked Rain, crookt Rain was pretty good. No, I've never
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: seen him more interested in what we're talking about. It's funny.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: In college we used to have a saying, it's not
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: a matter of which album are we gonna listen to next?
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: It's which Pavement album are we gonna listen to? Next?
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: T shirt? Yeah? So anyway, Sagan wrote an essay and uh,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: marijuana reconsidered um, and here is one of his quotes.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: He said, the cannabis experienced has greatly improved my appreciation
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: for art, a subject which I had never much appreciated before.
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  Speaker 1: The understanding of the intent of the artists, which I
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: can achieve when high, sometimes carries over to when I'm down.
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  Speaker 1: This is one of many human frontiers which cannabis has
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: helped me traverse. Was that the frog doing Carl Sagan.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: That was sort of kermity, but he uh yeah, I
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: mean that's not it doesn't define him or anything, but yeah,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: he liked to smoke the pot and he liked to
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: get out of his little tape recorder and talk about stuff,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: put on a turnal neck, yeah, with nothing else. It
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: was the sixties and seventies, of course he was, and
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: I think the eighties and maybe even into the nineties.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: That's true. So um, let's let's I guess let's go
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: back to the beginning. We've done some pretty good teasing here, right,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: And when you're talking about a human being, there's no
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: place better to start at the beginning than with their
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: birth Brooklyn, New York. His mother was Rachel, was a
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: garment industry manager and apparently the biggest Oh yeah, yeah,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: but his mom was overbearing. Yes, mom was overbearing. Sorry,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: dad was a Ukrainian immigrant, Samuel, who worked as a
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: garment industry manager. Because in four they probably and hire
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: women to do jobs like that, which is really stinky.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: So uh and we it's not like we've met the
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: lady or anything and can report that she's overbearing. The
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: idea that she's overbearing comes from this longstanding image of her.
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  Speaker 1: She had very high hopes and high expectations and aspirations
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  Speaker 1: for Carl very well may have made the man. Yeah,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: you know, I moved to New Jersey after a little
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: while and was voted the class brain at Rahway High School.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: And I thought this was interesting in this what articles
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: this New Yorker, which one while why Carl Sagan's truly
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: replaceable Smith Smithsonian Joel Ackenbach. Uh. It was a great article, though.
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  Speaker 1: But they tracked down in nineteen fifty three a questionnaire
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  Speaker 1: from high school that he had to fill out on
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: his own character traits, and Sagan said he gave himself
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  Speaker 1: low marks for vigorousness like with sports, an average rating
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  Speaker 1: for emotional stability, and the highest ratings for being dominant
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: and reflective. I'm gonna start using that vigorousness. Yeah, and
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: I worked out this morning. I'm so vigorous. Um. So
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: that's not just a piece of paper they dug up, Chuck,
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  Speaker 1: that's from his archives, which were actually sold to the
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Library of Congress by his widow. Um what is his
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: widow's name? Anne? And drew in one of his uh, well,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: his his widow. But he was married three times um
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: and uh Ann sold the papers. Are supplied the papers
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: for an honorarium, I guess, to the Library of Congress,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: And the Library of Congress got that money from Seth McFarland.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: So basically, Seth McFarland bought Carl Sagan's papers and donated
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: them to the Library of Congress. Yes, that's why. It's
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: pretty cool. That's what it's called, the Seth McFarland Collection
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: of the Carl Sagan and drew In Archive. Had to
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: put his name on there. Well, I mean, sure, why not?
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: You know, No, it's fine. He's he's he's a huge
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: fan of his work, and he's the one who rebooted
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Cosmos and genuinely, like, I mean, I gotta say, like,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: whatever you have to say about Seth McFarland, there was
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: plenty to say about Seth McFarland. He is, he proved
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: himself a true fan of Carl Sagan and a rich guy.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I've always liked a family guy. So I don't have
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: any bad to say about him. Uh, what have you
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: seen American Dad? No, I never got into that. Actually, yeah,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: it's not family guy. It's definitely just totally different. Uh.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Seven hundred and ninety eight boxes of stuff of archival material. Um.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: The guy love to log every conversation he ever had
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: and every thought that ever entered his brain, mainly through
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: the cassette tape. But um, I guess that was transcribed
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: by other folks. Yeah, apparently that's um. Joel achenbach Um
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: says that his his writing style was so conversational because
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: he didn't write, He dictated into ad dictaphone and then
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: it was transcribed. Basically, basically, he was like the Hunter
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: s Thompson of science. Yeah. Remember Hunter t had like
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: the real real he'd wear around his neck when one
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: is high on marijuana. It is a buzz skill to type. Actually,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: that's funny. We bring up Hunter Thompson. Hunter Thompson loved acid.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: You know who else loved acid? Timothy Leary. You know
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: who hung out with Timothy Leary, Carl Sagan. Timothy Leary
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: was trying to get Sagan to advise him on how
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: to build a an interstellar arc because Leary just totally
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: lost his stuff by this time, right on him. Oh yeah,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I'm surprised we haven't. Um, let's do it, man, we should.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: We should do one on like the Mary pranks there's
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: a whole thing just basically redo the the electric kool
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Aid ascid test would be a good episode. But Leary
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: um at a mental institution because he'd been popped with
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: a bunch of acid. I think had a visitor in
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Carl Sagan and Frank Drake of the famous Drake equation,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: and they came by to say hi, and and Leary
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: was like, seriously, you guys have to help me design this.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: And they were like, this the closest stars too far away,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: your koke, This isn't gonna work. And Learry said he
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: since that they had some sort of neural blockage. That's
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: why they couldn't think like he could. Yeah. Man, So
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: that was Carl Sagan Timothy Larry story. But I think
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: they stayed in touch. Oh I'm sure they did. So. Uh.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Young Sagan is his life kind of changes when he
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: goes to the World's Fair in nineteen thirty nine. He
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: was just five years old. You remember whose World's Fair
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: that was? Was it? No? Was it Chicago? Eddie Berns?
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that was the law wo the one that
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: changed everything, including Carl Sagan. Boy, that's a big one. Um.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: So Sagan goes to the World's Fair, and it was
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: sort of a a great time, um, to be a
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: young kid interested in science, because in the late thirties
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: and forties and fifties, it was like everyone was captivated
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: by the future. Right, There's this idea that science could
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: do anything, anything and very soon would. It was really
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: exciting and um, it was just a great time to
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: be to be into it. It's the uh what's his
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: name Openheimer? No, Oppenheimer. Now I'm talking about the article
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: back like, yeah, Oppenheimer. Yeah, I'm the I'm become death.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: That's what I thought you were talking about. Uh. In
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: the article, he makes a great point about, um, just
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: that that time period and um, how exploratory everything was
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: really from then, like through the nineteen seventies. That was
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: a great like forty year period in science where basically
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: that was funding and like anything is possible, we can
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: do anything we want until they started to you know,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: I guess disproved things here and there, right, And actually
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: what's interesting is there's a corresponding boost in technology from
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: that era too, And a lot of people point out
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: that all of this stuff from about nineteen seventy five
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: on is actually built on the backs of the stuff
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: that was built in the forty years before that, from
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: about ninety five to nineteen seventy five, and ever since then,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: we've the technological plateau. It's really interesting and you don't
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: think about You're like, well, no, I mean we have
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: iPhones now. It's like, yeah, iPhones are all they're a
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: combination of different stuff that was first discovered or invented
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: forty or more years ago. Um, And basically everything's like that.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: We were in a slump right now. So it was
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: not only a time where they thought science could do anything.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Science was doing just about anything. And we've since hit
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: a plateau and um. He the author described him. I
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: thought it was a great description Sagan as a nuanced
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: referee because really cool thing about Sagan was he was
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: very grounded in science and proof and facts, but he
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: wasn't um. He wasn't just a square and a skeptic,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: although he was a skeptic, yeah, but he was also
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: like he wanted to to find life on other planets.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: And he didn't shut things down. He was all about
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: the discussion of everything as long as you still did
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: the research. We're grounded in fact as a matter of fact,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: and he did not believe in UFOs. He did not
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: think that UFOs were extraterrestrial spacecraft, but in nineteen sixty
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: nine he mounted a conference on UFOs in which everyone
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: apparently had their say all sides. Yeah, it wasn't like
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: we're mounting a conference on UFOs. You can come so
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: the rest of us can poo poo your ideas and beliefs.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: It was, come and share your your position on it.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: That's enormous, and that in and of itself is worth
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: remembering the person for. But this is nineteen sixty nine,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: before you'd even become like a household name or anything
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: like it. Yeah, And I like to think we do that,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: and we still get emails. So we got one today
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: for people that said it's it's dangerous to even mention
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: other schools of thought. That's dogmatic. Yeah, And I just
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I don't agree that dogmatic and close minded and don't
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: even bring don't even email us with that crap. Yeah,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: I just don't don't even bother because we're gonna we're
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: gonna make fun of you on the air. Yeah, because
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: that's not what our shows about. Even if we don't
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: believe something, we like to throw all sides out there.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Because I think, uh, discussion is healthy no matter what.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: That's just me. Even when we were mocking crop circles,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: we still like talked about crop circles, did we not.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: It's not like we just pretended like there wasn't such
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: a thing as crop circles. That's right, And we have
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Carl Sagan, thank for laying that golden path in front
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: of us. So you want to take a break, I
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: don't want to, but we have Okay, all right, we'll
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: be right back. All right, So we've been beating around
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: the bush here. Um, let's talk well not really, we've
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: been getting into it, but let's let's talk about some
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: of the things that Sagan. Uh. He wasn't just some
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Johnny come lately. He had uh degree upon degree. I
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: think he had had billions and billions. We had undergrad degree,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: he had his masters, he had his PhD. He was
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: he was well versed in a lot of realms of science,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: but his big thing was astronomy. Right. He had two
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: degrees in undergraded masters in physics and then a doctorate
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: in astronomy. Um and he did a little stint at Harvard.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: I didn't get tenure. So he's like, I'm out of here,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: and Cornell is like, you come to us and we
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: will treat you like a god. And they did, and
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: he settled in at Cornell and set up am his
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: own lab right, the Laboratory for Planetary for Planetary Studies. Uh,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: and he just that was when he really started to
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: get going. He was doing cide work for NASA at
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: the time as well doing consulting. He did that throughout
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: his whole career, formulas, that kind of stuff. Sure, when
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: NASA is picking your brain about like the Apollo mission,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: you're you're doing pretty well for yourself as a scientist.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: But so he had this this this potent child to
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: to really go as sciency as he wanted to with
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: the stuff, and he did in some ways in a
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: lot of ways with his consulting with NASA, but he
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: also kind of pushed NASA into humanities um direction as well. Yeah,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: like the the Voyager discs, that's a that's a really
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: great example of it. Like he talked NASA and including
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: discs on Voyager one and two, the Golden Record, Yeah,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: that are they're basically like, here's some stuff that represents
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: humanity and Earth. Yeah, pretty much like if we ever
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: do find life on Earth. We need to have something
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: to offer them to represent us. Yeah, what I say,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: life on Earth. Yeah, there's life on Earth. That's pretty
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: much documented. His fact, life out there, extraterrestrial life. He said,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: we need to present ourselves and what Earth is like
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: and what humans are like. So he included a hundred
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: and fifteen images representing the diversity of life and then
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: uh sounds basically like his wife. Literally, this is pretty
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: out there. I don't know if marijuana had anything to
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: do with it, I think so. Yeah, his wife Anne,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: she created her own sounds for the project. Basically, she
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: meditated and then thought, I told the story of the
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: universe by thinking it with her brain, and then those
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: brain waves were translated into music. And she said, my
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: mind also wandered to my love of my husband, so
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: that was translated. So they blasted. That was her message
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: that they blasted out in space, which is pretty far
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: out right, but but awesome messages of love. Sure, man,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: it's pretty neat. He wasn't afraid to show his tender side. No, no, no,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: he definitely wasn't. He was vulnerable in a lot of ways. Um.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: And also on those discs, there's a believe etchings of
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: a man and a woman. I think it's etched on
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: the disc and they're like laser disc size. They're super
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: retro and made of gold, which is pretty cool. Um.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: And then there's a basically a depiction of where Earth
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: is in the Milky Way, I believe, so it's basically
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: saying we're here if you ever find this. And then
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: of course Voyager one I believe I got lost and
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: awakened and became sentient and then became a god on
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: to some beings. Remember, and I think Star Trek one
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: the first, the first movie. I never saw that. Vijor.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Do you never saw any of the Star Trek movies, Dude,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: I've never seen one episode of the TV show. I've
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: never seen one episode of the Next Generation. The only
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Star Trek thing I've ever ingested was our Apologies to
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Will Wheaton. By the way, was that first movie that J. J.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Abrams did. I saw that. I saw the second one
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: of that. I also saw, I think Star Trek maybe one, two,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: and three, And in one of those, there's this god
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: vjer who's like this artificial intelligence, and they finally meet
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Vijor and realized that the Oi UH is blotted out
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: and it's really VOI of jar One the Space Probe. Wow, yeah,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: that's pretty cool. I thought it was pretty neat too.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: I'm not a tricky by any means, but yeah, they
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: were still entertaining. I just never got into it. I
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: was always a Star Wars guy, not that they're mutually exclusive,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: but I don't know. It just didn't grab me. You know,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: who would have predicted that we go off on a
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: star trek Tangent and the Carl. Although I think I've
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: told the story of working on a commercial with William Chatterer,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: you have, didn't he like bend you over a car
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: and pretend to arrestue That was punch? Hey Shatner was
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: t J Hooker. It could have happened. Yeah, he was
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: great though. He was awesome. He'd love being William Chatterer.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, man, you can tell like I wears it
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: like a suit. Yeah he was. He was awesome, very
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: nice guy. So, um, we're getting off track again here
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: with science. There was actual science to stuff. As a
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: matter of fact, the idea of the greenhouse effect is
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: rooted partially in his work. Yeah, I mean that that
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: had been around since the late nineteenth century. But um,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: he looked at like a planet like Venus and said,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: you know what, Venus is really hot, and I think
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: wise because this greenhouse effect. And um, then because of
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: that work, people started thinking, well maybe Earth has a
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: greenhouse effect. Going on to really opened the door for
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: that line of thought. It did, and he's correct. Earth
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: definitely does have a greenhouse effect, and it's problematic. Correct.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Another one that he's widely cited for is the Fate
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Young Young Son paradox um. I don't know if the
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: if he was the one who first pointed this out
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: or if he just kind of built upon it and
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: it's still not fully solved. I think so he and
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: George Mullen figure this out. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. So
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: the idea is that Earth early on in its history
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: was a ball of ice, but problematically, there was also
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: some liquid water on Earth too, It wasn't all ice.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: This doesn't make much sense because the Sun as it
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: stands now is just about enough to keep Earth from
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: from being a frozen ball of ice. But back then,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: when Earth was mostly a frozen ball of ice, the
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Sun was only at like it's luminosity or lumosity luminosity
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: one of those luminosity, right, yeah, sure, Um that it
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: is today and so it doesn't make sense that there
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: should be any liquid water on Earth. And it's called
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: the faint Young Sun paradox. And um, I believe they
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: figured out or they Sagan and Mullin said, well, it's
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: the greenhouse effect. Yeah, and I don't think they ever
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: fully settled on that. Still, it's it's outstanding. They think
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: it might be a combination of that and some other stuff.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: That's right. Uh, what else did you do? He looked
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: at um Titan Saturn's moon at one point and said,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: you know what, I think there's organic molecules up there
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: and that's why it looks red. And he was right, yeah,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: he went to uh yeah, so, I mean he he
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: wasn't afraid to throw a wacky hypothesis out there, and
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: that did not do him any favors in the scientific
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: community either. No, because there is a definite um arrogance
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: associated with throwing out the hypothesis and not doing the work,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: leaving it to other people to do the work. And
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: then you still get the credit for throwing the hypothesis
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: out there. Um, it's it's one of the it's one
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: of the main reasons why Sagan was highly criticized by
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: some people in the scientific community. Yeah, there's um in
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: the Smithsonian article. Um, they say there's sort of an
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: unwritten rule among scientists. Uh, Thou'll shouting not speculate, They'll
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: shout not talk about things outside your immediate area of expertise.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: It's a big one that he transgressed. Yeah, he was
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: all over the place. Uh, and thou shouting that horse
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: around on late night TV talk shows. Yeah, Carson. Yeah,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: he was on Carson two dozen times over a couple
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: of decades and was, like I said, sort of the
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Neil de grasse Tyson. He was the go to when
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: anyone in the press needed anything for television. He was
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: the guy. And anything that had in any thing even
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: remotely to do with science, even if I had to
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: do with theology, and somebody wanted a science's opinion of theology,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: go to Carl Sagan. And so from Sagan's at his
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: point of view, he's just furthering science. What's the problem
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: from this other scientists point of view, it's like it
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: makes it look like Carl Sagan is trained in everything
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: from astrophysics, which he was, to theology and biology and
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: anthropology and every ology in between, and he wasn't true.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: There's some professional jealousy too, you know. I think, um,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: you know how it is like he's getting all the
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: press and uh, other folks are stuck in a lab
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: doing what they think is the real work. So I
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: kind of get it in a way. But I just
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: think that people like Bill Nye and Tyson and then
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Sagan are hugely necessary. You know, you gotta have a
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: face out there furthering it. You definitely need, you know,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: and you've got to have a media outlet like Parade
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Magazine to put that ace on. That was his go
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: to for sure. There a lot Oh yeah, it was.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: That's the Sunday insert right yeah. Uh And and that
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: was like kind of the big joke because that he
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: stopped publishing in academic journals and started publishing in Parade Magazine.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: And if you remember in our Nuclear Winter episode, yeah
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: he was did he completely in uh think of that, No,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: he just furthered it. He was part of a group
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: that that was organized that basically said like, if you
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: guys start setting off nuclear bombs, it's not going to
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: be this thing that just ends Like there's going to
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: be this thing called Nuclear Winner, and they hadn't done
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: all the science yet before he went and wrote an
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: article in Parade magazine and told the world about Nuclear Winner,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: and in the opinion of the science that's he was
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: working with, like really undermine their case because it's sensationalized it. Yeah,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: but what it also did was it got your your
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: average Joe thinking about nuclear war in the Cold War
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: and maybe we shouldn't be zoomie toward our own demise
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: at a hundred miles. That's the big back and forth
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: about Sagan's legacy, Yeah, or the actual work he did too. Yeah,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: and you mentioned that theology he was famously um spiritual agnostic.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: He was a spiritual agnostic, is how he defined himself. Yeah,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: he didn't classify himself as as atheist. No, And the
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: reason why, true to Sagan's own um own way, was
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: that he could not scientifically prove that there was not God.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: So he said, how can I call myself an atheist?
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Which is um, it's pretty cool. And actually he's the
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: guy supposedly that coined the term extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: That's what I here? Does that go back to him?
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: So he's like skeptics love the dude. Oh yeah, he's
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: the father of the skeptic. But I think he I
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: don't know. I think he gives skeptics the good name. Sure,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: but if you want to prove your bones to how
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: hardcore is skeptical, you are criticize Carl Sagan in the
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: skeptic community, you can really show that you're a super skeptic. Yeah.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Sagan was a milktoast as far as skeptics go, because
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: he would indulge other lines of thought, um, but still
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: require proof. But he wouldn't just shut it down right
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: out of the gate. So we will get back to
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Carl Sagan right after these messages. Alright, chuckers, we're back. So. UM,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: there was one thing that Carl Sagan, he would poke
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: fund it himself. He never abandoned. It was this idea
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: that possibly, maybe, just maybe, um, there was intelligent life
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: out there, and um, I wanted there to be for sure,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: you know. Uh. He helped disprove or just the conditions
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: against life being out there for sure. Like for example, um,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: he suggested that on Mars, the shifting features of Mars
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: were result of dust storms, and it turned out he
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: was right. But those dust storms also basically said there's
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: probably not life on Mars just from that reason alone,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: those horrible death storms. Right yeah, and he um, actually,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: you want to pull a surprise for some of his work.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: I think he wrote more than a dozen books. But
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: one of the things he wrote was Contact, the novel
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: not uh, you know, he was totally into sci fi
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: and wrote you know the movie uh Contact that McConaughey
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: and Jodie Foster that was based on his novel. And
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: of course that movie was about sending signals into outer
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: space trying to find life. So you can tell the
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: guy it was something he loved to talk about and
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: write about. Oh yeah, but he also loved it like
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: actually that that kind of research which is totally up
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: his alley, like st um, the search for extraterrestrial intelligence
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: is is evidence based in science based search for extraterrestrials? Right? Yes,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: that was that's Carl sagand through and through. That's just
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: totally him. He was, Um, he wanted to believe in
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: extraterrestrial life, but he needed proof to believe in it. Really. Yeah,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: he just couldn't make that jump to just saying yes,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: they exist without any proof. Yeah exactly. So he's writing books.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: He's NASA's picking his brain. He's all over the place.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: And he eventually we talked about his TV show debuted
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: on UM. Well, actually the debuted nineteen eighty one. Yeah,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: I thought eight, Yeah, yeah, I think it was UM
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: so I must have been nine years old. I was four.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: I thought it was ten. What month was it, I
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: don't know. I don't even um. But he originally was
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: the TV series is gonna be called Man and the Cosmos.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: But he thought that was sexist, and he was a feminist,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: so he said, um. He proposed a couple of more titles.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: One was called There Terrible t H E R E
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: U with some subtitle, and then the other was Cosmos
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: along with a subtitle. UM. And he spent like three
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: years around the world filming this thing, right, yeah, and
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: it just it was a what it's not like it
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: ran for seasons and seasons. It was like a a
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: single run of shows on PBS. That television event. Yeah,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: it was a TV event exactly. One of the other
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: things he did which I never knew, was he wrote
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: along with his son. Now because his son uh has
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: a byline, I guess Jimmy Sagan, Todd Sagan his five
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: kids I think total. But one of his sons became
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: a sci fi writer, another one became more of a
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: science writer. So basically he split into two. Yeah. Actually
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: I never thought about that way, um, but explained as
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: two of his kids existence. He wrote the entry for
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: life for Encyclopedia Britannica, like this is what life is. Yeah.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: He was fairly energetic dude, for sure. The least. I
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: mean he did Cosmos in his mid forties, just out
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: of nowhere accomplished he really did. Yeah, he's like the
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Cypress Hill of of science. I don't know, hey, man,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: they put out like three albums in like four or
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: five years. It's a lot of work. And then retired.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Second did not retire, No, he did not, sir. He
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: worked up until his death in n Yeah. He dies
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: after battling UM, a bone marrow disease for about a
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: year or so to two years I think is closer. Um,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: he's diagnosed with it and he needed a transplant, and
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: his sister uh stepped up and volunteered to give him
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: a donation and did and uh apparently it wasn't quite enough,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: because he died of an infection after about a year
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: and half after, Um, the transplant just sixty four years old. Yeah,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: to wait, way too young, it really is. And in fact, yesterday,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: the day we're recording this is November ten, I believe
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: yesterday was this would have been his eighty first birthday.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you didn't plan that, nope. Wow, that's a
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: pretty impressive speaking to me from billions of light years away. Yeah,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: that's funny that you say that. Because somebody wrote to him. Um,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: they said, how do you know that there's not a heaven?
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: And um, he had this really great response. He remember
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: in his archives, he was a pack rat, so he
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: kept a lot of correspondence, and from it they found, Um,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: in this achembach Um article, there's a a citation of
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: a letter that he wrote to somebody, and um, he says,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: thanks for your letter. Nothing like the Christian notion of
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: heaven has been found out to about ten billion light years,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: and then in parentheses he puts one light year is
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: almost six trillion miles. Best wishes. And the point is
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: like he took the time to write the letter back
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: to this guy, like he would engage rather than just
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: ignore the letter entirely. So he entertained and indulged people's
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: ideas enough that he would engage with somebody who didn't
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: even know about whether there's heaven or not. And this
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: this was sent um the year he died. Actually, so
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: he's writing this from his sick bed. Wow, that's awesome. Uh.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: As far as whether or not it bothered him, whether
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: or not he was how he was thought of in
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: the scientific community, UM, it kind of all came to
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: a head in uh. He was on a list to
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: be included um as a nominee for the National Academy
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: of Sciences. Uh. In the end, he was not included,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: and it bothered him. Um. He kind of brushed it
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: off to the people in public saying that you know,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: I didn't think I would get in any way. But
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: his widow said, uh, quote it was painful. It seemed
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: like a unsolicited, slight end quote. And they ended up
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: giving him an honorary medal, which was nice, but that
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: was definitely a big sting for him. Yeah. The National
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Academy of Scientists said, Nope, you're not a member. You're
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: not one of us. They basically said that the the
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: actual research that you did wasn't strong enough, which, uh,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: it sounds like a definite calculated slight. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: he's included in my book. Yeah for sure. Man. Uh
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: so my hat is off to you, sir forever. Do
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: you got anything else? No, man, I just uh, someone
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: needs to make a great documentary or movie about the guy. Yeah,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: you know, starring Ashton Kutuer Carl Sagan. That guy can
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: play anybody. Yeah. Uh. If you want to know more
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: about Carl Sagan, you can start with this delight a
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: little article on how stuff works by typing Carl Sagan
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: in the search bar. And since I said search parts,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: time for listener mail. Hey guys, my name is Connie.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I've been a listener for a couple of months after
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: my brother turned me on to the show. Since then,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: I've been completely obsessed and haven't been able to stop listening.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: UM on track to become a nurse, so I can
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: can't get enough of anything science or biology related. I
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: want to thank you for a couple of things. I'm
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: in a base level anatomy class right now, and the
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: rigor Mortist podcast saved my behind and my grade on
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: my cadaver dissection and muscles test. A lot of the
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: things you covered, like the nature of the muscle's relationship
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: with a t P and the integral proteins really helped
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: me pass my exam and not pass out in the
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: cadaver lab. You also even taught my anatomy professor something
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: new about Keila cells. About that last year, I was
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: diagnosed with anxiety and depression due to the fact that
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: I can never really fit in the right way. I
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: lost almost all of my friends when I made an
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: early jump from high school to college, and being able
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: to count on YouTube weekly has really helped a little
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: bit with the loneliness and learning something new is always
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: a healthy distraction from anxiety. So you guys, really give
• 36:55
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