Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / The Psychology Of Customer Service | The Christian Reeve Podcast #338

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The Psychology Of Customer Service | The Christian Reeve Podcast #338 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

0:00
OK, hello and welcome to another episode of Christian Reeve
0:07
Podcast. I, at this point have already
0:12
recorded another show and I have a guest on that show and I have
0:20
another guest lined up and another one.
0:23
It's funny how these things work.
0:24
It goes from nothing to suddenly abundance.
0:28
But I guess that's just how these things work.
0:32
Anyway, I was actually quite enthralled in the discussion the
0:39
topic of custom service because I figured, maybe not somewhat
0:45
naively, that I would get through this like that.
0:47
Like, it's just me talking, so how long can it really take?
0:52
But I think because I have the capacity to talk forever, and I
1:00
often get sort of sidetracked and go off on big deep dives,
1:05
sometimes in a good way, sometimes maybe in a bad way.
1:09
I don't know. You'd be the judge.
1:12
It creates or makes space for the potential to have a bigger
1:18
show, maybe multiple episodes. And the way I've always done
1:23
these things is to kind of let things breathe naturally and,
1:26
and go from there really. You know, that's why the episode
1:30
episodes with Josh Leonard often end up being like several
1:36
parties because there's just so much to explore.
1:39
I sense that may be the case with an upcoming guest here on
1:43
the show. I don't know.
1:45
We'll have to see how it goes 1st and we'll go from there.
1:48
But the thing that really stands out to me with this doing this
1:53
is it's, it's a good form of practice.
1:56
I'm trying to get out of my comfort zone as much as possible
1:59
lately. And you know, it, it depends on
2:03
the situation that sometimes there are things that I just
2:06
know and not for me. And there are other times when I
2:08
know I just need to push myself a little bit more, little bit
2:12
more to do something that maybe I'm not as confident with.
2:15
So I know that I'm not as confident doing this than say
2:19
interviews, because interviews you're guiding the conversation,
2:24
but you're not responsible for the conversation per SE.
2:27
You are responsible for asking the questions and kind of
2:31
engaging with your guests and getting them engaged as well.
2:35
But you're not responsible for the conversation going, well,
2:41
you know, you're not responsible for it.
2:43
Like to just be like the best thing ever or the worst thing
2:48
ever or whatever the case may be.
2:50
Your job is to just guide the conversation and go from there.
2:56
And I don't know, I feel like I do a good job with that, but I
3:01
don't know. I guess it comes down to
3:06
individual perception really. In my mind, I feel like I'm
3:11
getting better at it as time goes on.
3:15
But again, it's a learning curve for me and I got to get to the
3:21
point. I hope that you enjoy it.
3:23
I hope that this is worth it. I hope that you are engaged with
3:29
with these episodes and you know, if there are particular
3:33
topics that you're interested in or that you'd like to hear me
3:38
discuss, please reach out either via e-mail,
3:43
christianreevepodcast@gmail.com. You can also reach me via my
3:49
Discord. Obviously there'll be links to
3:52
that probably in the description on my website, etcetera.
3:57
And just reach out to me. Like wherever you find me, reach
4:00
out to me. Let me know.
4:02
Let me know in the comments section if you're watching this
4:04
on YouTube or I think you can make comments on places like
4:07
Spotify and Apple Music. Another thing as well, I'll say
4:10
before we get into back into today's topic, back into the
4:14
customer service. If you enjoy the show, please
4:18
rate it, please review it, please share it with your
4:20
friends. This is how we grow.
4:22
This is how we reach more people.
4:24
This is how we potentially get more attention, bigger and
4:28
better guests, maybe a budget. Imagine that all of these things
4:33
can happen, but I need your support to do them.
4:36
And finally, if you really want to support me and help me out
4:39
and help me take this potentially further, please
4:42
consider subscribing to my Patreon, www.christianreeve.
4:47
Sorry, no www.patreon.com/christian Reeve,
4:51
There we go. I think it's time to get on with
4:54
the show, don't you? So I, I didn't announce this
4:58
initially, but I've got like sections for this show that, you
5:06
know, I didn't really pay much attention to the subtitles
5:08
before because I got AI to produce a show for me.
5:12
And from that I kind of, at first I was, you know, I was
5:15
kind of hesitant because I'm always hesitant using AI.
5:20
But I think for things like this, it's quite a useful tool.
5:23
And I often use these things as like a baseline.
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And then it's something you can kind of jump off and, and try
5:29
and create a show with. And given that it's just me,
5:35
there's no one else helping me out here, it's just me.
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I've been using AI as as a kind of like a quasi assistant.
5:42
But I'm very careful with this because I have some strong
5:45
opinions about AII. Do not like this idea that
5:49
people think they can use it to replace human beings.
5:52
You still have to make an effort.
5:55
You still need to put together a show.
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I got lucky in this instance because I asked it to kind of
6:01
interview me and it's actually put together a show that I think
6:05
might be worth listening to. I don't know the first one.
6:09
Go check out Part 1 if you and if you think it sucks, hey, let
6:14
me know. But continuing on with it, it's
6:19
divided it into, I suppose, logical sections.
6:23
So right now we're going to discuss the psychology of
6:26
service. So the first question, we'll go,
6:30
we'll go from there. How do you mentally prepare
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yourself to perform customer service everyday?
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This is an interesting question because it's like twofold.
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I remember a few years ago someone said to me that customer
6:43
service is like one of your biggest roles.
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And they were, they were referring to acting.
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And I'd never really looked at it like that, but it's true.
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Like everyone who's on board, whether you're creative or not,
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you are putting on a performance.
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Sometimes they'll play into that and they'll say sickening things
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like remember, guys smiles, you're on stage.
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Like I've literally seen like little.
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There's been times when I've been working in venues and
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they'll have like a sheet on the wall that says something like
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that and like some crappy designs that were made that look
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like they were made by a five year old in Microsoft Paint or
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something. And it's all, it's all just
7:31
bollocks as well. It's all that like propaganda
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shit because you know that when you go out there, it's a whole
7:35
other ball game. Like, yes, you can't walk around
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with a mopey face and be miserable 24/7.
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This is true. But we are human beings and
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we're not robots. And you know, sometimes people
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have a bad day. Sometimes it's exhausting
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speaking to hordes of people or just dealing with people's
7:55
rudeness or just their attitudes or whatever else.
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Sometimes even it can even be just exhausting in general, like
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no one's fault, just, I don't know, you had to make this many
8:07
drinks today, or you had to take this many orders today, or you
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had to stack this many shelves today or whatever.
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Like these jobs I think of, people often forget or they
8:18
don't know that they are really physically demanding jobs
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because little things can build up over time.
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So yes, pouring a pint, serving a coffee, these are not
8:29
strenuous things. But when you've done like a
8:32
hundred a day, maybe more, they start to get really tiresome
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because not only are you creating these things, you're
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also constantly talking to people, you're constantly
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cleaning, you're constantly moving around.
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You know, it's like when you're busy, when there's like a rush
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period and let's say you're working in a coffee shop or you
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know, you're working in a bar. It's kind of like, when does
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this start? When does this end?
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Sometimes the whole shift will just be you from beginning to
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end, just running around like a madman.
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Other times it might just be a small rush and then moderately
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busy. Other times you might get lucky
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and have either a small burst and then a chill day or other
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times you just have a completely chill day from beginning to end.
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It really depends. But as far as like the role side
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of things, I try to play to the role, but I'm not fake, you
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know, like I try to represent whatever brand company I'm
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working with at that moment. I'm professional, you know, I
9:41
take what I do seriously. Even if it's a job I hate, I
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still think that your attitude is, is everything.
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You know, having a bad attitude will get you nowhere in life.
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Even if it's a job that you hate, you know, that's not like
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the customers fault. That's not yes, sometimes they,
10:00
they are the, the, the reason that you hate it.
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But I still don't think that like 2 wrongs make a right.
10:06
I think that you, just because people around you affect you
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doesn't mean that you should choose to kind of fall with
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that. I think it's very important that
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the people maintain their professionalism and maintain who
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they are. And hey, I know how hard this is
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as well. I'm not trying to for a minute
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suggest that, oh, this is easy. Like, you know, just pretend
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like these things aren't bothering you because I struggle
10:34
all the time. I just think when you've been
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doing this long enough, you do begin to build up a sense of
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understanding of which hills you're prepared to die on and
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how to approach certain situations or certain types of
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customers. Because you'll start to see the
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same sorts of customers again and again and again.
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And it's, it's almost like, you know, I've met this person
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before, I've dealt with this thing before.
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It's like fucking deja vu 24/7. But you do become used to things
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and then before you know it, you and you're training people how
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to deal with that stuff. And now you're the veteran and
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you're no longer the the newbie. That's really weird how that
11:16
happens. As far as how I mentally prepare
11:19
myself, I will say this, I've noticed as I've gotten older,
11:25
I've taken a lot more time to enjoy the hours before a shift.
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Now, granted, as you know, I'm obviously pursuing creative
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things like music and acting and podcasting and such.
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So every single day, you know, I mostly work late.
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So if I'm working late, I'm using that time before I go to
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work to, to make sure everything's done.
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All of my auditions are done. You know, if I've got to do a
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podcast, I do a podcast. If I've got to do research, I do
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research. I catch up on my emails, I apply
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for things, I audition for things.
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I use as much of that time as I possibly can, but I've also
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started, you know, chilling, watching things, playing games,
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making sure that I am resting so that I'm in a good mood, or at
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least a relaxed mood so that when I walk in, I'm at least in
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a good sort of headspace. So that whatever happens, at
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least I'm coming in with a positive mindset.
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Now, granted, you can't always walk in with a, you know,
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perfect attitude. Sometimes there's just bad stuff
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going on in your life sometimes, like I know here in Manchester,
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it rains a lot. So sometimes I've walked in and
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it's like you've been battling the elements and now you've got
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battle customer service. You know, sometimes life is
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unfair. You just have to deal with it.
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But I think that's the best way to mentally prepare yourself.
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I think work drama, work BS starts and ends at the door.
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You don't bring it home with you.
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You don't, as far as I'm concerned, every time you walk
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in new slate, new, just new, new, new, new, new.
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But there's a lot of choice with things as well.
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I think you can choose to be involved in like workplace drama
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and gossiping and all this nonsense, but it's only going to
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cause you problems. And quite frankly, like, I don't
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know, I got better things to do with my time than worry about
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like, what this person thinks or what this person said about this
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person. Like these things don't matter
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as far as I'm concerned. It's a job.
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You come in, you do your job, you go home.
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The only thing that really matters is can I work with these
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people? Can we make this work?
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Can we make it at least a pleasant experience for everyone
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involved or failing that, just workable so that we can get the
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job done and go home? Because no one really wants to
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be, you know, there might be a few people that love the job,
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but most of us just kind of want to get on with it.
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So that's kind of like how I approach just mentally preparing
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myself for these things. And as, as I say, as I've gotten
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older, I've, I've spent a bit more time trying to get into
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that chill mindset because in the past I would kind of just,
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you know, dread it and walk in. And that probably contributed to
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some of my feeling. The job is the job.
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It's never going to change. It's always going to be tough.
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But you can change. You can be stronger in the face
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of adversity. You can be strong and not let
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these things defeat you. However, it is tiresome and it
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does take a lot of your strength and energy to kind of keep on
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top of that. I think, and I have struggled
14:55
over the years, especially in the last couple of years, but I
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think I am beginning to learn kind of what I said before, like
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knowing, knowing what to just let, let things go, let let it
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all go. This is not your career.
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This is not what you're invested in.
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Just let it all go. Let things go that don't either
15:17
concern you or that aren't really that important.
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And remember, remember, in the grand scheme of things, it's
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just a job. You know, it's not, as the kids
15:26
say, it's not that deep. Oh, I'm getting old.
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OK, moving on. Do you feel like you have to
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wear a mask when you're working? No, I don't, but I do.
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I said I I kind of resent this feeling sometimes that people
15:50
think it's my career, even though it doesn't matter what
15:52
they think. I just, I hate people seeing me
15:55
as like, oh, this is this is what you do.
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This is you. This is what you've chosen.
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And it's like, no, it isn't. But then I asked myself, like,
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why am I bothered by that? Doesn't that say more about me?
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Like, isn't there a lesson I should learn that?
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And there is, which is, you know, you should know yourself,
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you should not be perturbed by people's thoughts and feelings.
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And there's nothing to be ashamed of either.
16:21
You know, it goes back to, I don't know if I covered this in
16:23
in the last episode or if I've just spoken about it in streams,
16:28
but it goes back to status. Like people always have loads to
16:34
say about customer service, as in people that are critical,
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they always like to criticize and just say like, oh, it's low
16:41
skilled jobs for low skilled workers.
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And it's like, if you've never worked in customer service,
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you'll never know how difficult it actually can be.
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And I, I think you, I've always looked at it like it's sink or
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swim. It really is.
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Like there are people that are good at it and can deal with it.
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And then there are people that can't.
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And like, I remember seeing someone today post their CV into
17:11
like a Facebook group and, you know, people were saying things
17:17
like don't dox yourself and important stuff like that.
17:19
But this this kids was trying to get a job.
17:21
And he'd had a couple of bar jobs over the last six months.
17:25
And one thing that stood out immediately and someone
17:27
commented on it was the fact that he'd not really stayed in a
17:30
job past a couple of months. And that can be a red flag.
17:34
And I agreed like you've got, you've got to look at every job
17:38
you take and it doesn't have to be customer service.
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I think in general, like if it's a difficult job or a bad job or
17:47
something like that, how much are you willing to take?
17:50
Where do you draw the line and how strong are you or how soft
17:56
are you? You know, like if you're going
17:57
to be bothered because a few people were mean to you that
18:00
day, then you're probably not cut out for this, to be honest.
18:06
But if you can kind of put up with things, get through it, you
18:09
know, you will see some benefits.
18:10
I mean, I spoke about it in the first episode right at the
18:14
beginning that customer service can be very flexible and it can
18:19
even work in your favour in some cases, you know, in, in ways
18:22
that other jobs can't. But in order to kind of build up
18:27
and get to that point, you kind of have to prove yourself, kind
18:31
of have to prove that A, you're good at it, B, that you deserve
18:34
to be given some leeway, some some flexibility and stuff and
18:40
see that you're reliable. You know, at any time that I've
18:43
ever asked for anything in this line of work, or indeed any job,
18:46
I've made sure that I proved myself 1st, that I proved myself
18:50
as an asset and a useful person and someone who can use their
18:56
intuition, be trusted, doesn't need a lot of management, stuff
18:59
like that. I think these are really
19:00
important traits in a job like this.
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But I've moved so far from the question.
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Yeah, I don't, I don't need to wear a mask, I don't think.
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I just the only thing I would say is you have to go in there
19:16
with a good attitude. And sometimes it can be tricky
19:21
to do that when you're when you're struggling with things,
19:22
but it's never impossible. It's just a challenge.
19:29
Next question, how has customer service changed how you see
19:33
people or humanity in general? Oh, there's a, there's a few
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answers there. The first thing that comes to
19:41
mind is people are way stupider than you think they are.
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Oh my God, the general public is full of morons, idiots, just
19:54
people that do not engage, brain that do not.
19:58
And this is the thing. I'm not kind of attacking people
20:01
like, oh, you need to reach this intellect level and have gone to
20:04
university and all this crap. I mean, those aren't markers of
20:08
intelligence anyway. But a lot of the time it's just
20:10
little things like critical thinking, the capacity to just
20:13
question something or I don't know, to just.
20:17
You'd be amazed at how many people are very lazy and they'll
20:20
just walk in and rather than just kind of look around, you
20:24
know, try and find something out for themselves, they'll
20:27
immediately walk up to you and just be like, how do I do this?
20:30
Where do I do this? It's almost like they're asking
20:32
you to just like, can I use your brain because mine doesn't work?
20:37
And it's like, just have you tried just at least try.
20:42
Like, I'm more than happy to help people if you know,
20:46
they've, they've tried something and, and they just can't work it
20:49
out and they need my help. Like, for example, one of the
20:52
places I work is a hotel that has like kiosks, right?
20:56
Like the touchscreen kiosks and you put your stuff in right now.
21:01
They're pretty straightforward, I think.
21:03
But look, not everyone is accustomed to them.
21:06
You know, there are people that never really use this
21:09
technology, or maybe they're just not as confident.
21:11
We forget sometimes that people have like, dyslexia and stuff,
21:15
you know, or maybe they're just kind of a bit, you know, they're
21:18
in a terrible mood. They just got off a train.
21:20
You know, they're just like, confused.
21:22
They're making mistakes, whatever.
21:24
Like I've got a lot of sympathy for that.
21:26
Like they've come in, they've tried and they're just like, and
21:29
they're at a loss and they come and you'd be amazed how many of
21:32
those people come over and are like, hey, I'm sorry, I've tried
21:35
to do this and I just can't get it to work.
21:37
And like I'm, I'm more than happy to help because they've at
21:39
least tried and made an effort. And you know, that's what we're
21:43
here to do is to help. But I think there's this kind of
21:48
misconception a lot of the time with customer service that
21:52
you're just there to wait on their every whim.
21:57
And you know, maybe that's the case if you're working in like a
22:00
6*7* hotel or whatever and you know, you're, you're some
22:08
person's personal, but Butler, I don't know, like maybe that's
22:13
the case. But in most customer service
22:15
jobs, you are not responsible for every little thing.
22:20
You can even say no. This old expression that you
22:25
know the customer is always right is bollocks.
22:28
The customer is not always right.
22:30
The customer is often wrong. That's just a thing that
22:33
managers tell their workers to kind of gaslight them and tell
22:37
them like, no, no, no, no, no. This thing that you think is
22:40
right is actually wrong. We must do everything to make
22:43
the customer happy because God forbid a customer complaints.
22:48
What I've noticed is a lot of people are trying to just scam,
22:55
get a freebie. They try to gaslight you a lot
22:59
as if you're stupid. You know, they assume you're
23:02
stupid. A lot of people have like
23:09
psychological issues, like maybe they feel like the the people.
23:14
I will say this, and I'll reiterate this.
23:16
This is a really important point that I made in the last show.
23:19
Most people that walk through the doors are lovely.
23:21
Most people, most customers that you're dealing with are lovely,
23:24
right? They're just normal people.
23:26
But the people that aren't, obviously they stand out.
23:29
They're they're the ones they're the exception to the rule, but
23:32
they do stand out. They take more of your time.
23:35
They are tiresome, difficult, you know, pick, pick your, pick
23:40
your word. Really.
23:41
They're, they're a bit of everything.
23:43
But the issue a lot of the time is that they assume that you're
23:49
stupid and they assume that you're lazy and they don't trust
23:53
you. And there's just so many things
23:55
that I'll give you a really good example.
23:58
I remember years ago, I used to work at a supermarket and they
24:03
had this like tagline, which was, well, actually, we'll get
24:07
to that. We'll get to that forget about
24:10
that. So I'll tell you 2 stories you
24:12
get 2 for one here's a 2 for there you go over backward back
24:15
to retail already 2 for one buy one get one free bug off.
24:24
I remember one time in particular, and this happened
24:28
all the time, but I remember specifically.
24:30
I was getting so fed up with it that I just decided to take the
24:33
piss because it was just really annoying me.
24:37
I being I worked in downstairs in the warehouse, everywhere.
24:43
I knew like every inch of the warehouse.
24:47
I knew the stock that we had in. I knew when the deliveries were
24:50
made. I, you know, it was my job to
24:52
know and I was working there full time at the time, so I knew
24:58
right. So if you walk in and you're
24:59
like, hey, do you have this particular milk?
25:02
Because I don't see it on the shelf.
25:04
And also just a side note, this particular supermarket, I won't
25:07
name drop them, but if you want a deep dive on me, you can
25:10
easily find it. It's the the information is
25:13
online. They had this thing of of
25:16
basically like you could ask people anything.
25:19
So they were the only supermarket where you could turn
25:21
around and be like, huh, I don't see this on the shelf.
25:24
Excuse me, can you check out back?
25:26
And like other supermarkets, you people can do that.
25:29
But a lot of the time you just, if it's not on the shelf, you
25:32
assume, oh, OK, they don't have it, you know.
25:37
But anyway, I turned around to them because I knew for a fact
25:42
that we didn't have this particular product and I knew
25:44
that we wouldn't get it for like at least a week.
25:46
I said, hey, really sorry, we don't have this product.
25:50
Now. Part of our job was to offer an
25:52
alternative. So I'd say like, oh, we do have
25:56
this in stock. And obviously they shot that
25:59
down and we're like, no, I want this, please can you look
26:03
Outback for me? And I said to them, I know it's
26:06
not Outback. We don't receive a delivery for
26:09
at least a week. And they were like, no, no, can
26:11
you just go look for me please? And I'm like, sure, why not?
26:17
So I go upstairs, walk around, have a bit of a chat, have a bit
26:22
of a sit down. The guy had a coffee as well.
26:25
It's got maybe like 5 minutes sort of leisurely walked.
26:29
I took my time, I took my time. I enjoyed the little break,
26:36
walked back downstairs, walked right up to the customer and
26:39
said, I'm really sorry. I've looked everywhere.
26:43
Unfortunately, we don't have it. And I thought that would be the
26:46
end of it. Of course, it never was.
26:48
But they turned around and they said, oh, this is outrageous.
26:52
Can you, can I speak to the manager please?
26:54
Now remember what I told you about trust, That right there is
26:58
about trust. They did not trust me or believe
27:02
me. Now if I, and there were plenty
27:06
of people that did lie, but if I lied, it would be very easy to
27:10
root that out. I would get in trouble
27:12
eventually with a manager, it would get found out and I would
27:14
probably lose my job, you know, but that's how these things
27:18
work. 9 times out of 10, the people that you're dealing with
27:24
in the customer service industry, I'm not lying to you.
27:27
It's their job to know these things.
27:29
And like, how does it benefit them lying to you?
27:33
So this weird assumption that like people are lazy and they
27:35
don't care and they're just deliberately trying to get rid
27:37
of you is just false. But anyway, they turned around.
27:43
They wanted to speak to a manager, so I got the manager to
27:46
come over. The manager walks over.
27:49
They ask the same questions that I asked, oh, sorry, the same
27:54
questions to my manager. My manager turned to me and
27:57
said, do we have it upstairs? And I said no.
28:02
And they turned and looked at the customer and we're like, I'm
28:05
sorry, we don't have it. And in this manager.
28:08
So this customer, I think they, I remember they stormed off and
28:11
they said, oh, I'm going to shop next door.
28:14
And we were both like, OK, have a good, have a good time.
28:19
See you tomorrow. Because they always came back.
28:22
They just, they just wanted to moan.
28:24
They just want to moan. Story #2 I mentioned that this
28:30
supermarket was one of these supermarkets that for some
28:33
reason you could just ask for, make weird requests that you
28:37
wouldn't normally in supermarkets.
28:39
Anyway, let's suppose that I've, I've finished what I was doing.
28:45
I would always ask them at the end.
28:48
Is there anything else I can help you with?
28:52
And I hated asking that question because you'd end up doing like
28:56
15 things for them. And you know, like, it is part
28:59
of the job, but like, people would take the piss.
29:01
You know, you end up like carrying people's fucking
29:03
shopping and stuff sometimes. Like people really took the piss
29:07
sometimes. And it was difficult to know
29:09
where to draw the line and say no or how to excuse yourself,
29:13
right? Obviously the longer you you've
29:15
been doing it, the more abrupt you can tend to get with these
29:17
things and the less you're very scared or worried about, you
29:21
know, upsetting people because you're just like, no, I'm not
29:24
going to let people take advantage of me.
29:26
But I remember 1 instance, it was early in the morning and
29:29
this customer had asked for a particular milk that we didn't
29:33
have. At least at that point, we'd not
29:35
put it out just yet. The shelves weren't completely
29:38
empty. It was just like a one specific
29:40
organic milk that we didn't have out, which would have been at
29:43
the bottom of a cage. And and that's what I had to do.
29:47
I had to like root around in the back of a fridge.
29:50
And it took me like the better part of 15 minutes to pull out
29:54
this Dolly, to wear it downstairs to her in this shitty
29:57
lift that was 100 years old and broken, to finally wheel it over
30:03
to her. And the look, if she's like 5
30:07
foot 5, the Dolly is like 4 foot 3.
30:10
So I wheeled it to her and it's quite easy for her to just pick
30:15
out a milk. A big reason why I didn't open
30:18
the little door thing is because sometimes when you do that, all
30:21
the milks fall out because they've not been stacked
30:24
properly. Like they're sort of on the edge
30:25
and then they can fall out. There was a logical reason why I
30:28
was doing that. But also it's not that difficult
30:32
to just go like that because they're all the same.
30:36
But her response was, well, open it for me then.
30:41
And I was like, and I opened it and then she said, well, pass me
30:45
one then. So I passed her a milk and then
30:50
I said the line, is there anything else I can help you
30:53
with? And she says, yes, you can have
30:56
it on the shelf at 9:00 AM next time, and then just storms off.
31:02
And I remember turning and looking at someone that I was
31:08
working with, and they just pissed themselves laughing.
31:10
Something that I forgot about that story as well is as I was
31:13
pulling the milk Dolly up to this woman, at least three
31:17
different people asked me that question, like people that
31:21
weren't there. And I was getting more and more
31:22
irate because they were all like, I'm getting that milk for
31:25
that customer. Yeah.
31:26
And I'm like, just fucking go for here.
31:29
I've been gone like 5-10 minutes.
31:32
Do you know what I mean? But like, these people can't
31:34
wait longer than a minute. It's like they just think that
31:38
it's like this magical land upstairs and you can just summon
31:41
things like that. It's like, no, you got to do
31:43
some fucking leg work, man. But these people just have no
31:47
sympathy, no empathy, no patience, no brains, apparently.
31:53
Yeah, this is just getting me annoying.
31:56
I'm just thinking back for all the years and pain and difficult
32:01
conversations I've had over the years.
32:03
It's prepared me for what I don't know.
32:07
But yeah, rude customers. I've dealt with them all.
32:11
But overall, just getting back to the question, has it changed
32:14
how I see people? It has.
32:16
It has, it's revealed a lot to me.
32:18
I mean, the whole section is, is the psychology of service.
32:22
If you want to learn about human psychology, I recommend, if
32:25
you're studying it work for six months in customer service.
32:29
It will really change the way that you see people and you'll
32:33
see people in a lot of different settings as well.
32:36
Like people change a lot when it's something to do with their
32:42
food or something to do with a service or or whatever.
32:47
Like people, you see the real people come out, you know,
32:52
sometimes someone can be like lovely initially, but then they
32:55
don't get what they want and they just switch.
32:57
And, you know, it's interesting, like a lot of the time when
33:00
someone does switch, but it's kind of Fair enough.
33:04
You let things go, you accept like, OK, that's a fair reason
33:08
to be upset, you know, and you do take into account these
33:12
things. I don't begrudge everyone to to,
33:15
to be upset. You know what I mean?
33:16
Sometimes there's legitimate reasons.
33:18
Sometimes you have every right, but I don't know, there's just
33:22
people that I think this feeds more to the psychology side of
33:27
things. They're just looking for a
33:29
target and you're an easy target because they know that if you
33:35
fight back, they can get you fired.
33:38
But the difference is depending on where you work, your boss is
33:43
the kind of connection you've got to the company a lot of the
33:47
time. Like people will back you up.
33:48
If your managers trust you, your team trusts you, you know,
33:53
you're looking out for each other, they'll, they'll back you
33:55
up. And I've had it before.
33:56
I've had managers and staff and, and be like, like turn around
33:59
and turn around to customers even and, and tell them like go
34:03
away. You know, you're, you're being
34:05
unreasonable and it's totally fair and just and yes, it's a
34:09
risk, but you know, you can't always side with customers if
34:14
they're going to be like that. The staff of people, you know,
34:18
you work every single day with each other.
34:20
You see each other every single day.
34:21
You know how each other work. You know what's real and what
34:26
isn't. You know, like if someone, if a
34:31
customer complaint, it happened. Actually, there was a time, I
34:34
remember about four or five months ago where a customer
34:38
complained to me, a guest complained about another
34:42
manager. And I knew this manager very
34:44
well and I knew how they would approach it, what kind of things
34:48
they would say. And, you know, I listened to
34:52
this customer and I tried to kind of be sympathetic, but I
34:55
also was adamant that they were wrong with how they were
35:02
referring to this person. And the fact that they were
35:05
trying to say that this person was, I think you're like
35:10
racially motivated or they're trying to say that maybe like
35:14
they just weren't invested or they were trying to lie to them.
35:18
And then that was the main point of their argument.
35:20
And I was like, I can assure you, you've not been lied to.
35:23
They've told you the truth. This is how it is.
35:25
I also mentioned as well as like, I know you've spoken to
35:28
several people and I know they've all told you no, so I'm
35:31
going to tell you no as well, just so you know.
35:35
And this is another thing that annoys me just while I'm
35:37
thinking of it, whenever you join in a place for the first
35:41
time, A-Team and there's customers that come in and
35:47
they're very well known by the staff for being the people that
35:50
try to push it. But push people's buttons and,
35:55
you know, lie or exaggerate or ask for things they know they're
36:00
not allowed to have. If they see a new worker,
36:05
they'll try it with you because they know that, oh, you're new.
36:08
You, you know, you might not know, I might be able to get
36:10
what I want. And then if you say yes to my
36:13
request, I can use that against the other staff and be like,
36:17
well, they said yes, because what are you going to do?
36:20
You can't fire a customer. You can get rid of them.
36:25
You know, you can prevent them from coming back to the shop.
36:28
But I mean, that's very difficult to please, to be
36:30
honest. And I don't know, it depends how
36:34
like abusive someone is really. I've only seen it happen a few
36:37
times and it's mostly with just shoplifters.
36:39
But it's just interesting that like how how much people will
36:44
push you and push their luck before they eventually just
36:49
accept they're not going to get what they want.
36:51
So I've, I've seen a lot over the years and in many different
36:55
contexts. And even after like 11 years
36:59
combined experience working in customer service in all sorts of
37:03
jobs, I'm still, I'm still finding myself surprised by
37:08
things sometimes where I'm, and mostly it will be to do with
37:11
like pettiness or people just being difficult, but there'll
37:16
always be a new low, there'll always be just someone being
37:19
ridiculous and you just have to laugh it off really.
37:23
I mean, there's, there's really no other way to approach these
37:26
things. Have you noticed yourself
37:30
becoming desensitized, cynical, or more patient over time?
37:36
Probably all of the above. I don't know if I'm really
37:44
cynical. I'm just aware of what's going
37:47
on. I'm aware of when people are
37:48
taking the piss and when they're not.
37:53
I wouldn't say I'm desensitized to things, but like I do, I let
37:56
a lot of things go that I would have really gotten upset or
38:01
annoyed about in the past because it's just not worth it.
38:06
Is this is not your career. It's not, you know what you're
38:09
invested in, so why invest yourself in it?
38:12
You know, why put energy into something that takes energy from
38:18
you? And people mistake me when I say
38:21
this. Sometimes they think I mean,
38:22
don't bother, don't care. No, I'm saying don't invest your
38:27
energy in say, negative people or, you know, a job that's
38:32
thankless and is giving you nothing back.
38:34
Like don't go out of your weight.
38:35
Do the job, do it properly, but don't, like, break your back
38:40
over a job that would, like fire you tomorrow, you know, replace
38:45
you tomorrow, you know, because don't ever think you're not
38:50
expendable. Don't ever think that you're
38:52
more important than the business.
38:54
In football they say no one's bigger than the club and I
38:56
couldn't agree more. It does apply to business.
39:01
Even if you're really tight with the management, everyone loves
39:05
you, or maybe everyone hates you, but you've, you know,
39:07
you're an arse kisser. Whatever the case may be, never
39:11
think you're untouchable. Yeah, I've seen all sorts of
39:14
people get fired over the years, sometimes deservedly so,
39:17
sometimes unfairly. I've seen people, you know,
39:22
demonstrate fierce loyalty and then have it bite them in the
39:26
arse years later. It's unpredictable customer
39:32
service. I always just look at it like
39:36
your days are numbered, make the most of it and always have a
39:39
plan moving forward. As far as like patience is
39:44
concerned, though, I think I've grown more patient.
39:50
Like I said, I've learned to let a lot of things go.
39:52
You have to have patience in this kind of a job.
39:59
I imagine it's a lot like parenting.
40:00
Like you can't go nuclear on your child every time they make
40:04
a mistake or they get upset. But the difference is, you know,
40:08
we don't love customers, but you do love your kids.
40:10
So yeah, I suppose it is completely different.
40:14
It is. Obviously it's different.
40:18
I, I think a big thing I've learned is you, you don't have
40:21
to put up with a lot of crap. There's this misconception in a,
40:24
in a lot of customer service jobs that you have to just
40:29
accept any and all onslaught coming your way.
40:32
Like, you know, if people abuse you, you just have to, you have
40:36
to take it, you know, and some places don't know where to draw
40:39
the line on what's acceptable and what's not.
40:43
I've seen really, really heinous stuff happen where customers
40:46
have been allowed to get away with all sorts.
40:48
And I've seen other places where managers just immediately will
40:52
just get rid of them and they won't allow it at all.
40:56
I think it's better obviously, to work in those healthier
40:58
environments, but it's hard because you've got so much
41:02
pressure coming from like shareholders and, and business
41:06
owners that it's, it's finding its way downwards.
41:12
So when you see customer service workers and they look stressed,
41:17
there'll be a few reasons why A, they're probably understaffed or
41:21
it's really busy and they're struggling to keep up with
41:23
things because they're just not giving enough staff.
41:26
And whenever they try to complain about that and, and ask
41:30
for change, ask for support and assistance, they don't get it.
41:33
They get gas lit, they get told if you can't hack it, we'll find
41:36
someone that can. And that's the brutality of that
41:38
nature of that nature of job. Like especially in hospitality,
41:44
you know, you can easily get replaced and everyone knows it
41:46
and it. But sometimes, like this is the
41:49
only option you've got. There have been times when I
41:52
just haven't had anything to turn to and I've just had to put
41:55
up with it and it's, it's been hard, you know, Yeah, I know I
41:59
can walk out at any time, but there are big consequences to
42:02
that. Sometimes you just have to like
42:07
suck it up, so to speak, and swallow your pride.
42:11
And it's, it's not easy, especially when you know the
42:13
things that you're pursuing outside of your job are not
42:18
maybe picking up much momentum. You know, I've really struggled
42:23
with that over the years and it's affected how I've seen
42:28
myself, how I've seen the situation, my ability, my
42:31
ability to sort of find enthusiasm in things.
42:36
You know, I'll never wake up and be like passionate about
42:39
customer service. But you know, when you're in a
42:41
good mood, like you take pride in your work.
42:44
And I always try to, to do that and, and deliver the best
42:47
customer service I can. And, and, you know, try to make
42:51
people happy, you know, 'cause it's not the fault of the
42:55
customers that you're having a bad day.
42:57
It's not the fault of them that you're not achieving your life's
43:00
goals or whatever. Like they're just there to get
43:03
good customer service and you've been paid to deliver it, you
43:07
know, And I try to look at it like that, but I do draw the
43:10
line. I don't accept disrespect.
43:13
I don't think anyone should. And if you're told that you
43:16
should accept it, that's a red flag.
43:19
Get as far away as you can from that place because they're
43:26
trying to make you accept something which is unacceptable,
43:29
quite frankly. Moving it forward.
43:34
What kind of emotional labour do people not see behind your
43:37
service smile. Wow, emotional labour.
43:45
Well, I suppose the biggest 1 is what I mentioned before that and
43:53
maybe this is a, a lesson. You know, I said at the
43:56
beginning of all of this that this show would be as much for
44:00
customer service workers as it would be for people who've never
44:03
worked in customer service. The next time that you're
44:07
considering screaming at someone because you didn't get your
44:10
discounted cheese or whatever the fuck, consider the fact that
44:14
the person you're screaming at might be having the worst day of
44:17
their life. Consider the fact that if you
44:22
work in an office job, if you work in the field like that,
44:26
there are ways to kind of get away from it all, to hideaway a
44:29
little bit to get to find solace.
44:32
You know, maybe what if someone died in your family and, and you
44:35
know, you need maybe if you're working in an office, you can
44:39
work from home, you can get away from people.
44:42
If you're working in customer service, you cannot get away
44:45
from people. You have to put on that smile
44:48
and you have to play that role and be invested and show that
44:54
you care when your whole world is falling apart.
44:59
People turn around and say things like, oh, well, you know,
45:02
why not take compassionate leave?
45:04
Why not just, you know, take some time off?
45:08
And it's like it's not that easy in customer service in many
45:12
jobs, you don't get paid holiday.
45:15
You know, there's a lot of bullshit rules that are imposed
45:19
in many of these places that don't make it very fair for the
45:23
worker or, or it almost feels like things are against you.
45:27
Then there's the pressure of taking a sick day when your team
45:32
is a skeleton team or, you know, people are really relying on you
45:37
to get things done because we just don't really have many
45:39
reliable people or something like that.
45:42
There's a lot of pressure. And if you take a sick day, you
45:46
know, you kind of feel like you're letting everyone down.
45:48
So there's almost pressure to show up even when you're really,
45:53
really struggling. There's a lot of emotional
45:58
labour, emotional turmoil involved in it.
46:02
I see people sometimes come in and I can tell, I can see it in
46:06
their eyes, tell by the look on their face.
46:09
And, you know, you give people space as much as you can, but
46:14
this is a job that very much kind of demands things of you
46:19
sometimes. Sometimes you you have to
46:22
generate conversation. And, you know, like if you're a
46:25
bartender, for example, you have to be a psychologist.
46:27
You have to remedy people's loneliness.
46:31
You have to fix problems that are better left to therapists.
46:36
You know, there's so much asked of a customer service worker
46:41
that is often overlooked and really does feel like to me,
46:49
most people don't see behind your service, smile or indeed
46:53
care. You're just there to make them
46:55
happy. And if you don't make them
46:57
happy, they will admonish you, they will complain about you,
47:02
they might try to get you fired, all of these horrible things.
47:08
And at the end of the day, you have to find a way to keep all
47:17
of that, abate it, to maintain that service smile in despite of
47:23
all of that. There are days when you come
47:24
home and you're exhausted because you've been working two
47:27
weeks straight without a day off and your world is falling apart
47:35
and you just have to move through it.
47:36
There are times when, you know, maybe you're struggling to find
47:39
work. Maybe the work isn't as frequent
47:42
as you'd hoped. Maybe the job isn't what it was
47:45
sold to you as, and you have to find a way to be happy with
47:49
that. It's scary, it's tough, it's
47:54
demanding, it's thankless. Sometimes there are days when
47:59
I've come home and I've just seemingly like lost faith in
48:02
humanity. I've lost faith in people I'm
48:06
frustrated with. Just all the whole thing.
48:10
Everyone I'm frustrated with just being in it, having to deal
48:16
with it. There are days when I've dreaded
48:17
going to work because of how much it sucks.
48:20
And sometimes that's been months, you know?
48:23
But you know, maybe you're trying to build to a point where
48:26
you can get away from that job because maybe it's just a toxic
48:29
job, or maybe it's just you're sick of the industry in general
48:32
and you can't sort of hack it anymore.
48:35
You can't find the energy you need to cope with it anymore.
48:40
But there's no sympathy, there's no empathy from the industry.
48:45
It's it's thankless and brutal and you just have to move
48:51
through it. What kind of emotional people do
48:57
people not see? I don't think they see anything
48:59
a lot of the time. I'd say like a handful of people
49:03
actually see how you feel and treat you like a human being.
49:08
Most people treat you like a tool.
49:11
They don't see the human being, they just see a server.
49:15
And I know this is very cynical and heavy and I don't know how
49:19
true it is as far as like how the average person feels.
49:23
I'm just saying being on the other side, that's how it comes
49:27
across a lot of the time. That's how it feels.
49:30
And yeah, I know it sucks, man. It sucks to, to feel that way,
49:37
to be treated that way. But what can you do, you know,
49:43
what can you do really? That's the job.
49:46
I don't know that it will ever change.
49:48
I think that's the reality of customer service.
49:53
I don't really try to like find positives here, but it's it's
49:57
difficult to do that, to be honest.
49:59
It's difficult because I look at everything I've dealt with over
50:06
11 years of working in these sorts of jobs and all the
50:12
similarities between all the jobs are very clear.
50:14
And when it comes to the people side of things, I think the a
50:23
lot of these customers just don't appreciate you and what
50:29
what you're actually doing for them.
50:31
They think it's easy. They think it's, you know,
50:36
you're being unreasonable a lot of the time when you're not, a
50:40
lot of the time you are just trying to find a solution to
50:43
their problems or you're just trying to help them.
50:46
They almost feels that they don't want to be helped.
50:49
But I, I guess the, the biggest point I want to make with this
50:52
is that it takes a lot of energy to do a job like this
50:56
physically, mentally, spiritually, and you often come
51:01
home and you're exhausted. But there are so many days when
51:04
I've just not been able to do things, not been able to hang
51:07
out with friends, not be able to get my stuff done because I'm so
51:11
mentally, physically and emotionally drained from having
51:15
to show up to this job, having to show up to these sorts of
51:18
jobs, you know, and it's not even the irony of it is it's
51:24
never the work itself. I never get really tired from
51:29
serving or any of that. It's always the people that
51:33
drain my energy with their ridiculousness.
51:40
Which kind of brings me on to the to the final question for
51:42
this this section and for this show today, What's the burnout
51:48
like and how do you cope with it?
51:52
So I've been lucky that I've never experienced full burnout.
51:56
I've been close. I think this year really tested
52:00
me in a way that I never thought.
52:04
I never thought I would reach that point where I felt like I
52:08
might burn out. What I've understood about
52:11
people that experience it a lot of the time is that they know
52:16
it's going to happen. They allow it to happen, not
52:20
like in a self sabotage way, but because they don't see an
52:24
alternative and they've kind of weighed it up in their mind and
52:29
they're like, OK, rather than trying to either quit or take a
52:33
holiday, now I need to push through to a certain point, burn
52:37
out and then recover and repeat the process.
52:41
And it's like, I get what they're saying, but there's like
52:45
serious risks to doing that because you might burn out and
52:51
like, not be able to recover. You know, you're not supposed to
52:56
burn out. It's not a normal human feeling.
52:59
You know, that's my biggest concern with this.
53:02
You're not supposed to burn out. You're supposed to rest.
53:08
When you start feeling it's all too much, You're supposed to
53:10
rest. But there's such pressure from
53:13
this type of job that, you know, it often doesn't feel like there
53:16
is any time to rest or it feels like maybe maybe there's not
53:21
going to be a chance, an opportunity to rest anytime
53:23
soon. Or maybe there's too much
53:25
pressure from the company itself, your managers, something
53:28
like that. Maybe there's just not enough
53:30
reliable people working at said venue and they call on you
53:35
because you're more reliable than you know, the guy that only
53:38
works weekends, like, or maybe the people that only work
53:42
weekends or the students or whoever else is there and part
53:45
time, etcetera. Maybe they're just not as
53:48
trustworthy. You know, there's all these
53:50
different factors and it can often lead to you getting used.
53:56
But then a lot of the time you're just trying to do your
53:58
best. Or, you know, if it's like your
54:02
career or if it's, you know, just something that you really
54:06
need to keep hold of. There might be like a fear in
54:09
your mind of like, oh, I got to do this so I don't lose this
54:11
job. And I have to do all this
54:13
because I don't feel I can say no.
54:17
And like, sometimes people will use that to their advantage in
54:21
spite of you. And I, I had to learn over the
54:23
years to, to fight against that. But I don't know, my advice in
54:32
general for dealing with feeling that way is there were there
54:40
were jobs out there, customer service included, that won't
54:44
push you to the point of burnout, right?
54:48
There are well staffed teams, there are efficient teams.
54:51
There are companies that do care, you know, restaurants,
54:54
supermarkets, bars, etcetera, that do take care of their
54:58
staff. You know, it might not all be
55:00
sunshine and rainbows all the time, but when it matters most,
55:04
they'll look after you. And there's, you know, there's
55:06
been places that I've stayed at for years even that were very,
55:10
very good to me, even even despite of there being like a
55:15
few bad hiccups here and there. Overall, I would say there's
55:19
been some really great places. And these are the things to keep
55:23
in mind. Like if you work in customer
55:25
service or you're thinking of working in customer service,
55:28
don't be under any illusions, like it's never going to be
55:31
easy. But there are places that will
55:34
treat you better, that will treat you with respect.
55:37
And that, as far as I'm concerned, is the bare minimum.
55:41
But it's also essential in a job like that.
55:44
You know, it's, you need that level of support to get through
55:49
this job to be able to have the energy and the capacity to deal
55:54
with the things you're going to deal with.
55:56
You need that support network, so to speak.
55:59
And I think that's ultimately how you tackle something like
56:02
burnout or, you know, feeling like you're getting close to
56:06
that. That's how you prevent that from
56:09
happening or protect yourself from it.
56:11
Or failing that, you know, if if you've just got a stressful job,
56:14
but you love it, you know, I think it's just understanding
56:19
when to rest. There's an old expression,
56:24
choose a day off or your body will choose it for you.
56:29
You're not a robot. Pick times to rest.
56:32
And when you rest, truly rest, turn your phone off or whatever,
56:36
Don't engage with work. Just spend that time with
56:41
yourself, reconnecting with yourself, whatever, seeing
56:44
family, playing games, going out, doing what you love.
56:48
And then, you know, you get back to things and you feel refreshed
56:50
again. And that's that's the key with
56:53
it, you know. Thank you so much for watching
56:56
this second part in, I guess, a little series of me discussing
57:01
customer service, understanding customer service.
57:07
Yeah, just I didn't, I didn't think I thought we'd get it done
57:13
in two episodes, to be honest. But I I still have.
57:17
How much do I have left? Oh, my God.
57:19
This might end up being quite a few episodes.
57:24
I'm not. I promise you.
57:25
I'm not trying to drag this out. I'm trying to answer each
57:28
question with the level of attention that it deserves, and
57:33
I'm just finding that there's quite a lot to talk about.
57:37
And I don't know whether that's because I've just experienced a
57:40
lot over the years or maybe I've got strong opinions on this
57:43
particular industry type of work.
57:47
But I really do feel like there's quite a lot to say and I
57:54
certainly have more to say. So with that, thank you so much
57:59
for watching and listening. Let me know if you have any
58:02
questions. I'm happy to fill your
58:03
questions, Include them in one of the episodes or maybe the
58:07
final episode, I don't know. Hope you're enjoying this.
58:11
Thank you so much for watching and listening.
58:13
And until next time, I'll see you in the next one.